1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece grandparents and their teen boy 2 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: grandson visiting them on spring break. All dead. Not by 3 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: an accident, I buy a car crash. They were murdered. 4 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 1: The grandparents owned a mom and pop gun range, and somehow, 5 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: from what we know right now, a perp had been 6 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: watching drives up five thirty in the afternoon closing time 7 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: on a Friday, and the three end up murdered, shot dead. 8 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: This young boy had just gotten his cap and gown 9 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: for his high school graduation. I'm Nancy Grace. This is 10 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at 11 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,839 Speaker 1: Fox Station in series XM one eleven. Take a listen 12 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: to our friends at w XIA eleven. Grantville Police Chief 13 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: Steve Whitlocke says the call was something he never expected. 14 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: Assistant Chief he callment said that we had a trap. 15 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: In these exact words, we've had a tragedy in Grandmall 16 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: and I said, what are you talking about? And he said, 17 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,559 Speaker 1: we've had possible a triple martyr and Florida police cars 18 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: were still blocking the road early Saturday as investigators collected 19 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: what evidence they could at lock stock and barrel gun range. 20 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: Tony Hawk, his wife Evelyn and their grandson Luke were killed. 21 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: Luke's father, Richard, who was also the Koheda County Corner, 22 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: is the one police say found their bodies. A tragedy yes, 23 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: a triple homicide yes, but who is the purp? With 24 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: me and all Star panel to break it down and 25 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: put it back together? What do we know now? James 26 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: shell Nutt twenty seven years metro major case now lawyer 27 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: at the shell Nutt Firm. Karen Stark we now psychologists 28 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: joining us out of Manhattan at karen Starton dot com. 29 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: Karen with a C. Joseph Scot Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville 30 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon 31 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: and star of a brand new hit series, Body Bags 32 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: That Joe Scott Morgan on iHeart Cheryl McCollum, Founder director 33 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: of the Coldcase Research Institute. You can find her at 34 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: Coldcase Crimes dot org. But first to a special guest 35 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: joining us, Justin Carter, w sb TV, Justin, thank you 36 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: for being with us. What do we know right now? 37 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: Let's talk about Grantville. First of all, tiny, tiny, tiny, off. 38 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: I guess it would be I eighty five or is 39 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: it I twenty in Kaweita County. Oh, yeah, Nancy, this 40 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: is a small town. I would say, thirty five hundred 41 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: people accord into neighbors. I've been speaking with neighbors all 42 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: week all weekend, I should say, Um, you know, ever 43 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: since this happened. It happened Friday night. Police say that 44 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: it happened around five thirty six thirty. And that's key, Nancy, 45 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: because a minute, wait a minute, I thought they at 46 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: first said between five thirty and six thirty, and then 47 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: somehow narrowed it down to five thirty. Is that not accurate? Um? 48 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: That is that is accurate. It's around that time, So 49 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: it's around closing time. They've ten pointed that. So between 50 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 1: five thirty and six thirty, which is around closing time, 51 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,119 Speaker 1: the time that the Hawks family typically closes the lock 52 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: stock and barrel gun range. And Nancy, I just want 53 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: to paint the picture for you. This is a rural town. 54 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: Like I said, thirty five hundred people. Everybody knows each other, 55 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: and the gun range it's sits back a few a 56 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: few feet from the actual road. It's on Bohannon Road 57 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: in Coweeda County, in Grantville, and just a very rural, 58 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: desolate road. You know, again not everybody. Everybody knows each other, 59 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: and houses are spread apart, they're pretty spent a part. 60 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: Maybe I would say there's, you know, a house every 61 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: quarter of a mile, so that kind of paints the 62 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: picture to show how small this town is and just 63 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: you know, how close knits this town is too. Justin 64 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: I'm curious with me, Justin Carner from WSBTV, were there 65 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: any billboards on the interstate advertising blocks talking barrel? Not 66 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: that I saw. It's a forty five minute drive from Atlanta, 67 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: the wsc TV station in Atlanta to Grantville, Kweita County. 68 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: Well you must be flying because it's fifty miles from here. 69 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I guess maybe wherever wherever you are, 70 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, just comparing the two. But yeah, it 71 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: was about forty five minutes. You know, I'm a morning 72 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: reporter on the weekend, so there's typically no traffic, so 73 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: it took us about forty forty five fifty minutes to 74 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: get there. Very rural and very remote. Now, who needs 75 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: a billboard when you've got a website which opens you 76 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: up to a lot of people all around the world 77 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: that can find you. This again, let me say it 78 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: was a small mom and pop a gun range and gunshop. 79 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: They had an indoor and an outdoor range about one 80 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty yards that you could shoot. But you 81 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: know what's interesting, let me go to you, James Shelnott, 82 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: twenty seven years Metro major case detective and now lawyer. James. Typically, 83 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: when you have a gunshop robbery, it's a burglary. That's 84 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: a subtle but important distinction. A burglary occurs when no 85 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: one's inside. They go in after it's closed and rob it. 86 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: Because typically, I mean think about it, when a gunshop, 87 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: the perps would think that the gunstore owners are probably 88 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: more heavily armed than they are. They're out gunned clearly. 89 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: So it's very rare that we see a gunshot, a 90 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: gun store robbed, arm robbed, not burglarized. Think about it. Yeah, 91 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: I grew with you one hundred percent, and you know this. 92 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: I've been in this place. This is my home county 93 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 1: that was raised in. I knew these people. I had 94 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: been in this gunshot before. I'm familiar with that area, 95 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: and I will tell you it is very odd that 96 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: it was not broken into at night. Normally, what you 97 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: see is you see somebody to create some diversion on 98 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: the other side of the seat of or County and 99 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: then they run in and smashed the doors in and 100 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: grab the guns. They walked in and confronted the owner. 101 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: And Tommy generally carried a gun. He generally had a 102 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: gun on him. It just it raises a lot of 103 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: questions that we can talk about later. Did he have 104 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: a stroke and he was out and he was just 105 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: now coming back. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know 106 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: his medical condition is, but I know that generally he 107 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: carried a gun, and I know there were multiple guns 108 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: in there. So whoever this is guns down him seventy 109 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: five years old, his wife, the church pianist, seventy five 110 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: years old, and their teen grandson. Now you know Justin Carter, 111 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: he I think was on his spring break and was 112 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: helping out at the gun range. He just happened to 113 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: be there. I want to talk about what was stolen, 114 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: what specifically was stolen Justin Carter. So yeah, Nancy police 115 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: have kind of been tight lipped right now as far 116 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: as what has been stolen. Of course, the ATF was 117 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: brought in to investigate because there were so many guns 118 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: stolen we're told up where the forty guns were stolen, 119 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: and they have been upping their reward to reflect just 120 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: how serious this crime was. But yeah, they really haven't 121 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: been specific on what exactly what guns were stolen, but 122 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: they were definitely large guns. When we were shooting video 123 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: over the weekend, I've been a prised that at least 124 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: forty guns and very important they secure suit DVR was taken. 125 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: Now that means this part, if it is just one part, 126 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: which I doubt is no idiot. Let's talk about forensics. 127 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan joining me, Professor forensic jacksona State University, 128 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: and Cheryl McCollum, found a director of the Cold Case 129 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: Research Institute. First of you, Joe Scott, if you've got 130 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: a DVR, that suggests to me that the video is 131 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: not in the cloud, it's on the DVR. Yeah, you're right, 132 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: it's on some kind of hard drive that's there. And also, 133 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: who in the hey would know so intimately that if 134 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: they took the DVR there would be no video. Who 135 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: would know it's not in the cloud. Yeah, it goes 136 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: to a bigger point here. That means that somebody has 137 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: been watching. That means that somebody, in my opinion, has 138 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: been has set foot in here before. And this goes 139 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: to the idea that A, why would you have to 140 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: eradicate two generations of this family. Well, that means that 141 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: there is a high probability that this individual may have 142 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: been familiar with this family. They didn't just rob it, 143 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: they had to shoot them dead because they could identify them. 144 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: I mean, the whole m O is all wrong, Cheryl McCollum. 145 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:28,119 Speaker 1: It's all wrong for a gunshot robbery, a gunshot burglary. 146 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: You know what, why would you go in with the cars? 147 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: I think they had a pickup truck, one or two 148 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: pickup trucks part right there that knew that they were inside. 149 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,839 Speaker 1: Why not wait till they're closed up. Yeah, there was 150 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: at least two pickup trucks, so you absolutely knew somebody 151 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: was in that store. And again being a pickup truck, 152 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: if it weren't the owners, or one was the owner, 153 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: one was somebody else in there actively shooting. So it 154 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: seems like that would have, you know, hesitated this person somewhat. 155 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: You know, George's had two gunshop robbed in burglarized in 156 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: the last four or five years, all after hours, so 157 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: again the fact they were all wrong, and why take 158 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: the guns and let the people live? Why not that 159 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: guys take a listen to our cut eleven Elizabeth Rawlins 160 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 1: investigators stood out front of city Hall announcing that that 161 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: reward now stands at twenty five thousand dollars for anyone 162 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 1: with information. It was a busy weekend for investigators in 163 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 1: Calweeda County tracking any possible leads after a family was 164 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: murdered inside their Grantville business, But at a news conference 165 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: on Monday, investigators announced they still do not know who 166 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: shot and killed Richard Hawk, his wife Evelyn, and their 167 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: teenage grandson Luke at the Lock and Stock Barrel Range. 168 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: As of yesterday, there was a fifteen thousand dollars total 169 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: reward for information that would lead to an arrest in 170 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: successful prosecution. The search is now I'm getting nationwide attention, 171 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: including Georgia Governor Brian Kemp signing an executive order Monday 172 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: afternoon pledging to contribute ten thousand dollars to the reward fund. 173 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: We are providing a tipline and that number is one 174 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: eight eight ATF tips. Interesting that the ATF has been 175 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: brought into the case. You've got You've got the Grandful 176 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: Police Department, You've got Kweeda County Sheriffs on it, you 177 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: have the GBI on it. But now the ATF. And 178 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: it is because so many guns were stolen at least 179 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: forty time stories with Nancy Grace. Big question to you 180 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: justin Carter WSBTV. Did they secure the guns at not 181 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: to think of a jewelry store, they take all the 182 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: expensive jewelry out of the front window when they close, 183 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 1: and they put it back in the vault with a 184 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: gun shot. Very often you will see a steel cable 185 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: run through the guns so they can't be taken or 186 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: taken down off the stands like the diamond rings and 187 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: put in a vault of some sort. Did the victims 188 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: in this case at lock Stock and Bryl, did they 189 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: remove the guns or secure them at closing time? Well, Nancy, 190 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: right now it is unclear. I did ask the police chief, 191 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: Steve Whitlocke, you know what was it like inside? Can 192 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: you paint that picture for us? Can you tell us 193 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: what was going on inside or you know, just set 194 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: the scene for us. And he said that, you know, 195 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: it was flipped upside down, you know, as expected when 196 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: a robbery of this magnitude happened. So as far as 197 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: how the shop was set up and you know where 198 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: the guns were. Were they in the case? Were they 199 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: behind a counter? That is to be determined, and that's 200 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: what the GBI Georgia Bureau of Investigations is working on 201 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: right now. What do you know, James Shell not you've 202 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: been in there before. They did have cases at one 203 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: point in time. He also did have guns stored in 204 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: the back at one point in time. Well wa wait, 205 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: let's not telling me whether they were secured or not. Well, 206 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: they were secured in a glass case the last time 207 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:15,719 Speaker 1: that I saw this secured and a glass case as 208 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,719 Speaker 1: much as they can be in a glass. Okay. I 209 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: don't know what alternate universe you're living in, but you 210 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: are familiar with the term smashing drive, right Okay. I'm 211 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: looking at a picture right now on the inside of 212 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: locksick and barrel, and there are many, many handguns for sale. 213 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: There's nothing between me and them but a piece of 214 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: glass that's not secured. I agree, they were stored would 215 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: be a much better way to put it, sure in 216 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: plain view. Agree, So I'm just wondering. I'm thinking this 217 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: through Ryl McCollum. If the purp knew that the guns 218 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: would be removed from the case at closing time and 219 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: put away, or they would be secured in some way, well, 220 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: I think that's why he went in right at closing time, 221 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: before that was able to happen. He was able to 222 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: get at quick said no, I'm agreeingly to say something different. 223 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: You're not to say there's say what she said. But 224 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: in this case, that's what I honestly believe happened. I 225 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: think the timing was deliberate. I think it was executed 226 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: the way that they wanted it to be done. I 227 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: think this was for the resale up somewhere like New York, 228 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: because in Atlanta, you know, stolen gun's gonna be worth 229 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: about two hundred dollars. You get it to Atlanta, I 230 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: mean New York, it's gonna be worth about twelve hundred. 231 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: This is a sixty thousand dollars crime. Lowball in it. 232 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: Who would have done it again? The working theory is 233 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: that this family was gunned down, including a teen boy 234 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: set to graduate with honors on May twenty five, White 235 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: gun him down. Back to Justin Carner joining us from WSBTV, 236 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: it's my understanding all three victims were lying on the ground, 237 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: on the floor, just a few steps away from each other. Yes, 238 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: we I did not get that specific piece of information 239 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: from the police chief directly. Again, the GBI is, you know, 240 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: working around the clock, and we're getting most of our 241 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: information from the police chief. But as far as the 242 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: extent of where they were shot and where they were located, 243 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: I have not heard anything about that. Nancy. Listen, if 244 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: you've got three people that are lying on the floor 245 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: in immediate proximity of one another, that would give you 246 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: an indication style yeah, well, yeah, and control. So that 247 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: means that I think that this goes to probably more 248 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: than one perpetrator. One other thing here, you're talking about 249 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: forty weapons, Nancy. If you begin to do the math 250 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: on this, this isn't like you're going to smash and 251 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: grab a couple of handguns out of a case and 252 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: run out to the car, William and take off. This 253 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: takes time, and it takes some level of precision in 254 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: order to do this. These weapons, some of them depend 255 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: upon the type of weapon, can be heavy and so 256 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: it's just not one person that's toting these out of 257 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: the door unless they execute these individuals as soon as 258 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: this took place. You have to have somebody on top 259 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: of these people controlling them so that you're you're not 260 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: going to receive any harm as the perpetrator. That's why 261 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: I think that there's more than two violators that are 262 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: involved in this thing. So you got one person to 263 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: stand over and control them. The other person is rummaging around, 264 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: maybe even three, who knows, But I can tell you 265 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: it's not just one person. And think of the exertion 266 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: you used to take all of those weapons out of 267 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: the gun shop and transport them. This is what I 268 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: think should be being done right now. Number one, list 269 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: of customers, everybody that had bought a gun, everybody that 270 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: had been to the gun range over the last two years. 271 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: Number two, as he saw in the case of Alex Murdog, 272 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: remember him the law lawyer in Carolina. His wife and 273 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: his son end up dead and he tries to shoot 274 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: himself in the head. Turned out to be his dope 275 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: deal and buddy that did it in that case. As 276 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: we discussed Joe Scott Morgan, you and Cheryl and I, 277 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: the fact that at the end of the rural road, 278 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: dirt road where Murdoch was shot in the head and 279 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:26,719 Speaker 1: lived was a church as I recall, maybe the Emmanuel 280 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: Baptist No First Baptist, and they had a surveillance camera 281 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: in their parking lot. Now we know the DVR surveillance 282 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: video has been taken out of lock stock and barrel 283 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 1: gun range. We know that. What about this? What about 284 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: every ring doorbell up and down that highway? What about 285 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 1: every red light cam? What about every gas station cam? 286 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: What about any flock camera? What the flock camera? I 287 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: know P three City noon in Coweeda County they have 288 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: the flock camera that can trace vehicles all the way 289 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: from Georgia to Alabama to Tennessee to Florida. That's right. 290 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: What about we're close to Interstate eighty five? What about 291 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: tag grabbers going up down the interstate around five o'clock 292 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: and after going the other way. There are so many 293 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: ways to try to get surveillance, but it takes time. 294 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: But number one getting that customer list and anybody that 295 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: have been using the shooting range. Is anybody with me 296 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: on that? Yeah? I am Nancy, and I gotta tell 297 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: you I'm looking at a map right now. The easiest 298 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 1: way to access this place is off of a highway. 299 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: That's a combo hiway called fourteen twenty nine twenty nine 300 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: being an old federal road, and you literally have to 301 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: take a left hand turn if you're coming from the 302 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: south to go through Grantville. Did you know that when 303 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 1: you pass through this area in Grantville, you're actually passing 304 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: by the Grantville US Postal Service, You're passing by a 305 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: Dollar General, You're passing by the Grantville branch of the 306 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: Kiweeda Library. There, there's all kinds of places. You even 307 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: passed by a public housing location. So these are all 308 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,719 Speaker 1: en route to this location. You got you gotta figure 309 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: that somewhere along this range right through here, unless they 310 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: entered from the north, they're going to be surveillance camps 311 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: all along this road until you get out to this 312 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: kind of desolate stretch that's to the north side of Grantville. 313 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: You know another thing that Nancy hold on, Sheryl, justin Carter, 314 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 1: you said that there'd be a house about every quarter mile. Yeah, 315 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: about every quarter mile, Nancy. And also I just want 316 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: to point out too, there is a major movie production 317 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: being filmed in Grantville as we speak, just down the road, 318 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: I would say, maybe a mile down the road. It 319 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: took my breath away when I saw that The Color Purple, 320 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: the motion picture of the Color Purple is filming in 321 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: Grantville right down the street. Their building set. They are 322 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: you know, painting buildings to prepare for this big motion picture. 323 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: So that also has to be into play too. This area, 324 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: the Grantville area right now is it's an unprecedented time 325 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: for them right now because that there's this big movie 326 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: production happening just down the street. There are security guards 327 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: out there as well that may have seen something, and 328 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: I'm sure that there are there's some type of surveillance 329 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: system out there to protect the trailers, the you know, 330 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: million dollar trailers and you know, production equipment out there. 331 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. The horrible coincidence that when 332 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: the coroner's office arrived at the Saint it turned out 333 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: to be is the coroner's son and parents and that 334 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: we're dead, explain Justin Carner. Oh my gosh, Nancy, I 335 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: think that is probably the worst, um, the worst little 336 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: nugget out of all of this. You know, it was 337 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: around eight pm, so about two hours after this allegedly happened. 338 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: The Cowweeda County corner who is named after his father. 339 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: His name was Richard Hall. He discovered the bodies and 340 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: he called nine one one, and so that is just 341 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: just a horrific piece and detail of this story that 342 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: many people around town and Grantville and in the Atlanta 343 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: area are struggling to grapple with. You know, you witness 344 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: and you stumble upon just this grizzly scene and it 345 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: is your family members, So you know, that little that 346 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: little nugget, there's just heart wrenching. And we did reach 347 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: out to the Cowweeda County Coroner, Richard Hall over the weekend. 348 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: He did he did say that he was appreciative of 349 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: all the love and support, all the flowers people have 350 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: been dropping off, all the teddy bears, and he is 351 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: definitely you know, asking the public as well to respective 352 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: families privacy of the time. The tip line if you 353 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: know or think you know anything is for atf eight 354 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: eight eight two eight three eight four seven seven repeat 355 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: eight eight eight two eight three eight four seven seven 356 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,719 Speaker 1: toll free. There is also a way to report it 357 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: and get that twenty five thousand dollar reward, and that 358 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 1: is going online to report it, report it and you 359 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: can remain anonymous there take a listen to our cut 360 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: nine from ABC. I've been here eight years and we've 361 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: never had nothing like this, an unimaginable tragedy in Grantville. 362 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm speech Let's really I have a hard 363 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: time talking about it because, like I said, they were 364 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: good friends of ours. I've known him for a long time. 365 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: Grantville Police Chief Steve Whitlock says it was around closing 366 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: time five thirty Friday evening when the lockstock and Barrels 367 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: shooting range was robbed. Hours went by. Police say the 368 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: owner's son stopped by around eight o'clock and made that 369 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: horrific discovery inside where the owners, his parents, Tommy Hawk 370 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: and his seventies his wife, Evelyn Hawk, and their teenage grandson, 371 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: Luke Hawk, were told Luke was on spring break helping 372 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: his grandparents at the shop. So many questions right now, 373 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: but again reported dot com or eight eight eight two 374 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: eight three eight four seven seven, there is a twenty 375 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: five thousand dollar reward now that has been grade it 376 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: has it not? Justin didn't start at fifteen and then 377 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: ten was added on or vice versa, correct, correct Nancy. 378 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: The governor's office is now involved and they just recently 379 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: up that reward ten thousand dollars just as early as 380 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: yesterday for any information leading to concrete for you, any 381 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: any concrete me some leading to an arrest in this 382 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: cave to you, Cheryl McCollum, or really anyone on the panel. 383 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: Guns are easily traced. Explain how I work, Cheryl. Well, 384 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: you can trace a gun through the serial number, you 385 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: can trace it through the strations that it leaves. There's 386 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: lots of way you can trace a weapon. And that's 387 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: one thing I was going to say. Depending on what 388 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: they were shot with, the type of weapon, the caliber, 389 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: those bullets are most likely intact, and if they were 390 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: able to retrieve those that's going to be a fabulous thing. 391 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: If it was an automatic, we won't have a casing. 392 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: But if it wasn't, we might. They might have taken 393 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,719 Speaker 1: that too. We don't know. We don't know what all 394 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: they did. But Grantful is three thousand people. So everybody 395 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: was connected to this family that lives in that town. 396 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: They went to school with them, church with them, where 397 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: friends with them, worked with them. But the other thing 398 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: that I think it's going to be really powerful here 399 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: that we hadn't talked about are the cell phone towers. Oh, 400 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: you're right, and you know Grant Bull, I mean you 401 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: go to Luther's Ville and take a lift, so that 402 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: last power that people hit on, you're not going to 403 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 1: be talking about that many phones to go through. That's moving, 404 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: and then they'll be able to see what tower that 405 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: phone comes in at and leaves at. And regarding the 406 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: guns and the bullets, I was specifically asking about the 407 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: guns that were stolen, because those are going to hit 408 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: the street at a huge markup. This could end up 409 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: being thousands and thousands of dollars that these Well, I 410 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: don't see that serial numbers have already been obliterated, so 411 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: that's going to be a little more difficult and they 412 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: won't have them on the register. Well to you just 413 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: got Morgan, there is actually a bullet an MMO database, 414 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: much like the fingerprint database, the DNA database, like codis 415 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: and aphis, there is a bullet database in effect right now. Yeah, 416 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: and hey, what do we learn at the top of 417 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: the hour, at the top of the show, whether the 418 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: ATF is involved. And interestingly enough, the ATF is actually 419 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: the agency that controls that database, so they control if 420 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: a weapon is fired. And as mac had mentioned, you 421 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: recovered the actual projectile. It will have striations or the 422 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,400 Speaker 1: markings on the bullet from the rifling when it comes 423 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: down the gun, and those are unique to every particular weapon. 424 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: And say, for instance, a weapon has been used in 425 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: the commission of a felony, if you can trace that 426 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 1: back to that particular weapon after it's been utilized, then 427 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: that is essentially a ballistic fingerprint that you can track 428 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: it down with. However, this is the problem. Unless that 429 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: weapon or that AMMO is already in the database, you're 430 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: not going to have You're not going to have a 431 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: print that goes back to it. It's like people always 432 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: say with me, well why don't you use DNA to 433 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: solve the case. Okay, well, yeah, well we can collect DNA, 434 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: but if we don't have pre existing DNA to compare 435 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: it to, there's a problem. So that where you're gonna 436 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: bump up against a wall with these these are I'm 437 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: sure that there's probably some weapons here that have been 438 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: kind of used in trade. Maybe they've been purchased their 439 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: used weapons, Maybe those have some kind of markings on 440 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: them that you can trace back. However, if their new weapons, 441 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: it's not going to be in the database. To James 442 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: shell Nutt joining US twenty seven years Metro a major 443 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: case now lawyer at shell nut Law Firm, James shell Nutt, 444 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, just said something that caught my attention, the 445 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: fact that with these guns, if they sell them with 446 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: the serial number on them, they're dead meet because it's 447 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: going to be traced right back to them. But I 448 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: believe she's right. I believe they will have to file 449 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: down the serial numbers on the guns. That's going to 450 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: take a minute for forty guns. That means, in my estimation, 451 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: they still have the guns right now. If they're apprehended 452 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: right now, they will still have the weapons that would 453 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: be powerful proof. Yeah, I think that there's definitely a 454 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: chance of that. And a lot of times as well, 455 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: you know, people will hold onto these guns for men 456 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: and kind of let things called down and then maybe 457 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: put them in the circulation of the criminal world, you know. 458 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: At the flip side of that, as they may want 459 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: to get rid of them quickly too. But I've found 460 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: a lot of times they will hold onto these guns. 461 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: It does take time to get these serial numbers off. 462 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: These serial numbers are not easily ground off, even taking 463 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: a tool sometimes after they've been ground on for a while, 464 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: you can still make out a serial number by processing 465 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: that weapon. So I believe that out of forty weapons, 466 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: it's hard for me to believe that at some point 467 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: in time, if this case is not resolved before, then 468 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: at some point in time, one of those weapons is 469 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: going to be recovered and that's going to allow them 470 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: to be able to backtrack in their investigation the source 471 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: of those weapons. To you, Karen start joining us, a 472 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: psychologist joining us out of Manhattan, Karen, the mindset that 473 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: it would take to go in and gun down two 474 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: seniors seventy five years old. Ones just had a stroke. 475 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: The other is a female, his wife and their teen 476 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: grandson who's you know, ten days away from high school graduation. No, Nancy, 477 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: I will keep thinking about that and the fact that 478 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: it's such a small town and everyone knows each other. 479 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: And what I wonder is if it was some kind 480 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: of a robbery gone wrong, they were the person whoever 481 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: these purps are were identified, they could know them, They 482 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: knew them, and so they felt they had to kill them, 483 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: or that you know, Tony Hawk was a hero trying 484 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: to be a hero, or his grandther and did something 485 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: to try and stop it and defend themselves, because it 486 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: just doesn't make a lot of sense that they would 487 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: need to kill them or even go there at a 488 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: time when they were there, unless they somehow thought they 489 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: wouldn't be identified and something went wrong. That's what it 490 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: seemed like to make Or it's a psychopath and could 491 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: care less about the people involved. They're ragged off and 492 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: they're just going to the gun justin Carner, WSBTV joining us. 493 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: Do we know if the gun range had an alarm system? 494 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: I would say, in that remote area with thirty five population, no, 495 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: but they had security surveillance. Yeah, that's right. And there's 496 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: many signs plastered all around the gun range saying that 497 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: the building is heavily secured. As far as an alarm, 498 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: there was no indication from where I was standing. Of course, 499 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: it's been blocked off for several days now, of going 500 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: on four or five days now, but there was no indication, Nancy, 501 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: that there were any alarms inside. But definitely there were signs, 502 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: I would say, several signs plastered all throughout, all throughout 503 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: the building, outside the building and by the lockstock and 504 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: barrel sign along the road that said that the business 505 00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: was being monitored by surveillance. So you're saying there were 506 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: signs all along the road leading up to the gun shop. No, 507 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: there was. There was a sign that there was a 508 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: sign right by. There's a sign right next to the 509 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: road where the entrance is of the gun shop, and 510 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: it says lockstock and Barrel. It has the phone number, 511 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: it says that it's a family owned business. And then 512 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: right under that sign it says, we are being monitored 513 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,959 Speaker 1: by surveillance. I don't know what the company is like 514 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: RV surveillance, what I do recall And then there is 515 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: a sign as well by the front entrance as well 516 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: as a building. You know, it's interesting about that, the 517 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: fact that they had security surveillance. If it's not hooked 518 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: up to the cloud, taking the DVR would get rid 519 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: of all that security surveillance. But the timing five thirty 520 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: in the afternoon, if somebody knew that there was an 521 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: alarm system, the way to beat the alarm, which would 522 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: typically call police immediately if there's a burglary, is to 523 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: go in before the alarm is set, which would mean 524 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: they would have to go in while the victims were 525 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: in there. What about that, Joe Scott. Yeah, and this 526 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: goes to the knowledge of how this business and this 527 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: family operates that that's my contention. I think that there's 528 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: some level of familiarity with the comings and goings of 529 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: these individuals that owned the Hawk family that owned this facility. 530 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: I think that these individuals had certainly been there before. 531 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: I don't know if they were over customers, but they 532 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: had an awareness of what their what their routine is, 533 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: and you start to get toward the end of the day, 534 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: you know, folks are going to start to wind things down. 535 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: Maybe it's at this point in time that uh, you 536 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: know James had mentioned earlier about securing weapons and many 537 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: times in shops like this, if they do have a safe, 538 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: a large in dwelling safe, and a facility like this 539 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: that's safe is open. At that point, then you start 540 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: taking things off of the wall. For instance, you start 541 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: taking things out of the case and you put them back. 542 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: And to say, you know, wouldn't that be an opportune 543 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: moment in time when somebody is distracted by that work 544 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: to have their backturn just for an instant where somebody 545 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: could come in and take control of this environment and 546 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: rekill in there. I think it's too much of a 547 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: coincidence that they come at five thirty, just at closing time. 548 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: Whoever did this knew they were closing up, knew they 549 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,239 Speaker 1: may be turning on an alarm. I'm also curious as 550 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: to where the DVR was. Was it in plain view 551 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: or did the pup have to know where to look 552 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: to find the DVR that was storing the video surveillance. Guys, 553 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: it's not the first time a business has been broken into. 554 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: Arm drob the arm robbers willing to kill. Take a 555 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: listen to our cut. Fifteen Pixie eleven twenty years ago 556 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: forty twelve was the sight of Wendy's, the place where 557 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,719 Speaker 1: Nazario's brother ramone and six coworkers was shot execution style 558 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: and a basement freezer and man were ready close during 559 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: a robbery planned by former assistant manager John Taylor. Taylor 560 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: and accomplished Craig Gadino took the E train to Jackson 561 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: Heights and the seven to Main Street. John Taylor blamed 562 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 1: the shooting Zangadino. I would like the Taylor polygraph. I'll 563 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: tell you right now because I know I did not 564 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 1: shoot any of those victims in there, but survivor Jakwan Johnson, 565 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: just eighteen, then recovered from partial paralysis to testify against Taylor. 566 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: Johnson saw what happened with his right eye. I still 567 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: think about my friends all the time, and I gotta 568 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: live with that for the rest of my life. All 569 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: the employees at that Wendy's murdered for what the money 570 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 1: in the register. As he heard there so often the 571 00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: perp when a store is robbed, it's familiar with the store. 572 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 1: Everybody jump in. I'm saying more than one perp, and 573 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,280 Speaker 1: that they were familiar with the store. Now interesting, people 574 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: come from all around to shoot at this range. Take 575 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut eight x eleven. Chief wit 576 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: Luck says he considered the Hawks as dear friends. It's 577 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: really hard. It's really hard tow coming here accepted. We 578 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: can't can't say accept it's coming in to see what's 579 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: going on. It's just it's it's awful, thankfully this town 580 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 1: right here. Police say forty guns were stolen, and so 581 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: was the DBR that held the security footage. The chief says, 582 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: this makes solving the crime that much harder. The store 583 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: has been here for a long time, the range has 584 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: been here for a long time, and there's people from 585 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: all around come shoot here. I mean it's just not 586 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:49,280 Speaker 1: people from Grantville, not people from Grantville. But locals are 587 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 1: questioning if the perps were known to the victims. Take 588 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut one WSB. Like many people 589 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: in this community, a lot of neighbors are starting to 590 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 1: add ask questions, especially since this range sits so far 591 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: off the road from this ridsey area. You can see 592 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 1: that road and our vantage point. You can see how 593 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: far the range sits back from that road. Many neighbors 594 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 1: are starting to wonder if this crime, this murder was premeditated. 595 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: Friends say seventy five year old Tommy Hawk loved his 596 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: community and loved running the Lockstock and Barrel's Shooting Range 597 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: and Grantville. It's dumbfounded it something like this happened. Marie 598 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,720 Speaker 1: and Ceslock says that in his twenty five years living 599 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: in Grantville, a crime like this has never happened. He's 600 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 1: been to the range several times. The severity of it, 601 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: you know, three dads, they're just unheard up here. It 602 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: sounded like something that stands out. Some criminals had to 603 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,280 Speaker 1: have been looking for that place. I would think justin 604 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: Carter joining me WSBTV, describe how far off the road 605 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: it is. Why would someone have to either know about 606 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: it or be looking for it? Nancy, that is what 607 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: a lot of neighbors are wondering. This is not a 608 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: business that is you know, you can see from the 609 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: from the road from the naked eye, you really have 610 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: to be looking forward this building. I'd say it's maybe 611 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 1: a few a few hundred yards from the main road 612 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: on Handon Road in Grantville. So yeah, you cannot see 613 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: it from the road. If I was driving down Bohndon 614 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,399 Speaker 1: Road in Grantville, would not be able to see it 615 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: at all. James Shellner joining us on not only twenty 616 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: seven years on Metro major case now lawyer, but had 617 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: frequently been in the lock stock and barrel. What's your analysis? 618 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: My analysis is exactly what Joe Scott said, exactly what 619 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 1: warrant to have the other witnesses said or other ex 620 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: personal talent said, and that is that the people who 621 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,720 Speaker 1: went in there went in with a sense of boldness, 622 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: a sense of boldness. This crime didn't happen in sixty seconds, 623 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: as Joe Scott pointed out, these if these people are 624 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: in the same area, they were hurted in there. I 625 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,800 Speaker 1: do believe that somebody watched them, somebody assisted with getting 626 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: the uns. You know, this is also if you think 627 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: about it, people come there to shoot, and although it 628 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: was close to closing time, if someone showed up to shoot, 629 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 1: they're going to be armed. If someone is in the 630 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: back shooting, they're going to be armed. The owner was armed. 631 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: This is someone familiar with what was going on. They 632 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: were familiar with the surveillance system, they were familiar with 633 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 1: the guns, familiar with the owners. And this is someone 634 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: who has a level of familiarity of Scott. As Joe 635 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: Scott point out earlier, this is not a person who 636 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: randomly came in that building and decided to rob it. 637 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 1: This was coordinated and it was planned. There is a 638 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:39,439 Speaker 1: twenty five thousand dollar reward tipline eight eight eight two 639 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 1: eight three eight four seven seven goodbye.