1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: want you to know. It is Thursday, if you're hearing this, 10 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: the day it comes out, which means it is time 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:49,480 Speaker 1: for our weekly listener male segment. We've received, as always, thankfully, 12 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: quite a bit of correspondence about any number of things, 13 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: so much so that I don't know about my colleagues here, 14 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: but I've started just storing things up weeks of weeks 15 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: in advance and hoping I can get to it eventually. Uh. Today, 16 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: we're traveling around around the world, and we're gonna see 17 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: some some very different things. We're gonna see some classic 18 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: stuff they'll want you to know. I would argue a 19 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: little bit of hidden history, some inexplicable sightings, and the 20 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: darker side of some new technology. I think it still 21 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: counts as new. Uh. There's one you know, know that 22 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: that you found that I really appreciate because I had 23 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: heard about this case before but really interested to learn 24 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: more about it, especially because it sounds like an episode 25 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: of Tales from the Crypt or Amazing Stories. Well, it 26 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: is an episode of Unsolved Mysteries UM from I think 27 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: the early nineties Love with what Robert Stack who I 28 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: think we all grew up enjoying. Um. Yeah, this email 29 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: comes to us from Jake. Uh. He writes, Hello, I 30 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: just recently started listening to the podcast and I love it. 31 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: Thanks Jake. I'm Elma, Washington, which is about fifteen minutes 32 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: from Oakville. I'm not sure if you guys have heard 33 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: about the Oakville blobs, but here's a couple of articles 34 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: about any links out to some helpful articles, one of 35 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: which comes from the Unsolved Mysteries fandom wicki, which is 36 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: also a great rabbit hole great for for mining for 37 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: some interesting weird stories. Uh. There are multiple different theories. 38 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: He goes on about why and what it is. We 39 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: have one of the biggest military bases in the US, 40 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: Joint Base Lewis McCord, which one of the theories is 41 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: that they were testing in Oakville. Still remains a mystery 42 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: to this day, it's true. So just to set the scene, um, 43 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 1: it was, let's see August seven, nineteen four a police 44 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: officer was the unsolved mystery. Kind of sets it up. 45 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: Police officer was going about his rounds his patrol, and 46 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it started raining. It wasn't any 47 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: normal rain. When he turned on his windshield wipers, instead 48 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 1: of the rain just kind of you know, slashing away, 49 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: this weird gelatinous substance started to smear all over his 50 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: windshield to the point where he couldn't see, and uh, 51 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: he had to pull over, and smartly he put on 52 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: some latex gloves and went and checked it out, picked 53 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 1: up this stuff and it was this like squishy jello 54 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: type material, but it was precipitating, you know, from the sky. Um. 55 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: And it would go on to be sighted six times 56 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: in three weeks, this jelly rain, or the Oakville blobs 57 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: as it's referred to, um, you know regionally, I guess. 58 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: Um here's the crazy part. Though other people reported experiencing 59 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: this too. Like I said, over the course of three weeks, 60 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: six sightings, but people began to be seriously sickened in Oakville, 61 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: starting with the detective himself or the policeman himself. UM, 62 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: like flew like symptoms, uh, really bad vomiting and uh 63 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: you know, headache and dizziness and nausea. UM. And it 64 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: would asked sometimes from like a week to several months, 65 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: like seriously weird symptoms that were seemingly widespread. Um. And 66 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: there's a couple of theories about this. Like Jake said, 67 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 1: there is this military base that's nearby. UM. And this 68 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: is of course in the Pacific Northwest, so they're right 69 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: off the Pacific Ocean, and oftentimes air force or you know, 70 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: military will run drills over the ocean in terms of bombings, right, 71 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: they'll they'll test out ordinance. Uh. And one of the 72 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: theories is, this is my favorite one I think I'm 73 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: gonna lead with it, is that a military bombing test 74 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: UM exploded a like school of jellyfish. Then UM, we're 75 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: pulled that like their guts went everywhere so high that 76 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: they were pulled up into rain clouds like stored there 77 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: or something, and then precipitated out over the course of 78 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: three weeks at six different times. I think that's probably 79 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: one of the least likely scenarios. Uh, it's it's so 80 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: weird one though, but it doesn't seem to check out 81 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: in terms of just like you know, reality. I don't 82 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: know how that would work. I'm not a weatherman, but 83 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: it just doesn't seem like that would. You know. I 84 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: don't think clouds can hold jelly, but maybe they can. 85 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: I don't know who am I to say. Another theory 86 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: is that it was you know how like when planes, 87 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: uh supposedly, like I think they're not supposed to do 88 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: it over civilian populations. I think to do with the 89 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: ocean sometimes, but you know, planes when they dump out 90 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: the excrement in the waste you know, from the bathrooms 91 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: the laboratories on the planes. Um. That was one of 92 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: the theories too. But here's something I didn't know. Maybe 93 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: you guys did, um that you know that when airplanes 94 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: dumped that stuff. And you even notice that toilets like 95 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: this chemical toilet and everything's blue. It's dyed blue for 96 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: reason so people can identify, you know, what it is. Um, 97 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: And this stuff was definitely not blues. It was very 98 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: It was just translucent, I would say. Um, and like 99 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: I said, very very gelatinous, but almost like whitish, kind 100 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: of cloudy and translucent. UM. And then my favorite theory 101 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: and the one that I don't know if it's addressed, 102 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,119 Speaker 1: and I didn't watch the entire unsolved mystery, just watched 103 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: a few clips, but this seems like a relatively newer development. Uh. 104 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: There's actually the most amazing YouTube video. The channel is 105 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: called night Terrors, and it's hosted by this dude. UM. 106 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 1: You know, he's not even named on the channel, but 107 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: I swear he reminds me of like some character out 108 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: of like an old Universal Monster movie. He kind of 109 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: speaks like this, and he makes these very extreme pauses UM, 110 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: and it's it's a delight. I highly recommend you checking 111 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: it out. But he's got a video that claims that 112 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: the Oakville Blobs mystery is solved. I'll get to that 113 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: theory in a second. But one of the coolest ones 114 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: is that this was actually a matrix. This material was 115 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: a matrix UM material designs to carry biological weapons, weaponized disease. Essentially. 116 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: There were some UM analyzes done of this material, one 117 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:07,679 Speaker 1: of which found that it contained human white blood cells UM, 118 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: and then another one found that the cells from these 119 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: blobs had no nuclei. I'm not sure what that points to, 120 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: but I mean, it seems to me like it's some 121 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: advanced substance that we don't know about. I guess don't 122 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: most cells have nuclei. This is this is new to me. UM. 123 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, contained human white blood cells. And then when 124 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: it was analyzed by the Washington State Department of Ecologies 125 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: Hazardous Material Lab, they did find that it contained several 126 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: types of bacteria, one called Pseudomonas florencence and one called 127 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: inter Bacter Cola kai um. And the theory is that 128 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: again the Sky's sunny barklift UM whose mother got sick. 129 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: He kept a sample of it and he sent it 130 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: to the Washington State Health Lab, who then assigned UM 131 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: a researcher or I guess you know, disease specialist or 132 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, named Mike McDowell UM 133 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: to check out what this was. And Mike was able to, 134 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: you know, do a battery of tests. UM. He was 135 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: able to. He was trying to test it to see 136 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: if it would grow anything UM, and it actually grew 137 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: those two different types of bacteria they were talking about. 138 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: It was then locked away in a containment locker containment facility. Uh. 139 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: And when Mike continue to research it, he went back 140 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 1: to check on the material, but it was gone. It 141 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: had gone missing, and he said that it was the 142 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: first time in thirty years of his career that a 143 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: sample that he had in his control had gone missing. 144 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like, was someone trying to cover their 145 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: tracks someone at this lab maybe that they knew that 146 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: it would you know that they would trace back to them. 147 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,079 Speaker 1: How do you get it to rain down like that? 148 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: This is like a cloud seating, you know, with with jelly. 149 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: I don't understand that part. Um, what do you guys? Think? 150 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: It's pretty cool? Uh? And remains relatively unsolved. There is 151 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: a theory that it's this stuff called star jelly, but 152 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: we can talk about that in a second. But what 153 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: hits you about this immediately? Yeah? So, uh, longtime listeners 154 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: know that I'm someone who you know, grew up on 155 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: unsolved mysteries stuff like this. I absolutely love it and 156 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated. So it falls to me to have to, 157 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: with great regret, play a little bit of I wouldn't 158 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: say bad cop, but maybe maybe bust some myths about 159 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: this that that program propagated the stuff didn't fall on 160 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 1: its town, right, it fell on a nearby farm. It's 161 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: about the size of a grain of rice. And and 162 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: like many people, I originally assumed it was aircraft ejective, 163 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: that's what it's called, or blue ice, right, that's the 164 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: one I forgot about that term. Yeah. So one thing 165 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: that media here as sources don't agree on how many 166 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 1: people did or did not get sick um, And there 167 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: have been there have been other sources, usually one of 168 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: the more skeptical side, who argue that illness is not 169 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: related to this, were later attributed to it. So we 170 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: need to do some more digging there. One thing, Um, 171 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: One thing I can say for sure is human error 172 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: can play a part in this. Uh, the objection to 173 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: the idea of abject the objection of the idea of 174 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: objective from the conversation hinges on the hinges on the 175 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: practice of applying this deodorizer powder to waste in an airplane. 176 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: So that's why it churchs blue when it's dumped. But 177 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,479 Speaker 1: if people are in a hurry, or they have poor logistics, 178 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: or you know, something goes wrong someone forgets the deodorizer, 179 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: then it doesn't have to be blue. So it could 180 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: be mistakes were made in the sky. But that's further 181 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: complicated because I don't think we have a lot of 182 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: a lot of information on how many planes were or 183 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: were not fine in the areas. So I'd be interested 184 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: in digging back into this, but I don't. I don't 185 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: want to. I don't know monologue you guys, because I'm 186 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: just kind of free associating this stuff that what's your take. Yeah, 187 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: I'm having the same issue of finding concrete information about 188 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: what actually happened in But I'm reading something from the 189 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: BBC's Science Focus magazine and they're just mentioning they mentioned 190 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: that two forms of bacteria. Two types of bacteria were 191 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: found to exist within the thing. Those are the ones 192 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier than they kind of grew it. They 193 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: were able to grow them, you know, culture them from 194 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: some of the samples. Yeah, exactly. I wasn't seeing anything 195 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: about the having no nucleus or anything like that. I'm 196 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: just not seeing that hard data anywhere. I'm interested to 197 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 1: know if there is some kind of explanation, as you said, 198 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: star jelly possibly being one or some kind of amphibious 199 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: um species, you know, laying eggs and creating some of 200 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: the some of the substances that some amphibian species create 201 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: when they're going to go through that process. I don't 202 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: know what. Did you see anything about poly acrylate? Yeah, yeah, 203 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: sodium poly acrelate. There was like an instance I believe 204 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: in two thousand twelve in Bournemouth, England where polly accrelate 205 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: absorbed water from a storm and began to like literally 206 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: spontaneously formed these gelatinous blobs like in mid air. But 207 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: I don't know much about that substance. What did you find, 208 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: Matt h. Nothing. It's literally just mentioned in this Science 209 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: Focus article that's asking about it. It's a polymer, let's see, 210 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: it's acrylate polymers are group of polymers prepared for again 211 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: thems raining from wiki uh accrelate monomers their plastics um 212 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: and they're like almost like it looks like a rubbery 213 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: type substance. And if you look at somebody holding it 214 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: in its manufactured form, it does have it's almost got 215 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: a salty look like like the heavy rock salt that's 216 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: at um. But you can see it almost forming like 217 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: a almost snow, but like look has it's kind of 218 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: a squishy look to it. So I can imagine that 219 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: there could be like a gelatinous uh you know, texture 220 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: to it. Weird. It's super weird. And again, it was 221 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: just interesting that Jake, you know, grew up. I'm sure 222 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: that living in the area. It's it almost become like 223 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: the stuff of of of myth, you know. Um, and 224 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: it's forever preserved, uh, in the amazing unsolved mysteries that 225 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 1: we all know and love. So um yeah, that's that one. 226 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: I gonna take a quick break and then come back 227 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: with some more. It sounds good. Okay, and we're back, 228 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: and we're jumping to a message we received from bronze 229 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: ranked boomer. That sounds promising, you guys, that is that 230 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: a gamer thing? It sounds like it might be. Let's 231 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: jump into it. There's a lot here. We're not going 232 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: to read everything you wrote to us, but we're gonna 233 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: jump into some of these concepts. Jumping to the email. 234 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: I I just want Noll to be more familiar with 235 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: the dark side of Twitch since his daughter is a 236 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: fan of it. Make sure she just sticks to Minecraft streamers. Yeah, 237 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: she kind of self censors. Like I don't really worry 238 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: about her like venturing too far into the dark corners 239 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: of Twitch. But it's good advice, and I didn't realize 240 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: how quite how dark it got. Well we'll see, uh, 241 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: says Matt. You'll like Legends of Room Terrorists, and she 242 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: like MTG and Ben. You're cool and much better than 243 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: the Quister. Oh snap, I hope the quister never hears that. 244 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: Don't speak his name one more time, right, and then 245 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: it's two more times. Okay, all right, it's like candy Man, yes, 246 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: and let's just keep going here. I just listened to 247 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: your episode about Phase Clan and Crypto, and I wonder 248 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: if you're aware of the dark side of Twitch streaming. 249 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: If you aren't aware, Twitch is a website that allows yes, 250 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: we know what twitches? Should we say what twitches? It's 251 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: a streaming service where it allows users to view and 252 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: interact with content creators. People think it's strictly like a 253 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: gamer form, where like people become famous as Twitch streamers 254 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: because they're commenting and being cute and funny and making 255 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: jokes while they're like playing Fortnite and stuff. Yeah, exactly so. 256 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: Bronze Age continues on to say that there's a dark 257 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: side of sponsors on Twitch. He says sponsors are a 258 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: huge part of a streamer's income, on Twitch, it's like 259 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: YouTube where people get monetized. Also, there are sponsors that 260 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: support Twitch in general and run commercials throughout all partnered 261 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: Twitch streamers double the ads. However, their sponsors can be shady. 262 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: Like the crypto issue, there was another issue that came 263 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: up not long ago on the subreddit live stream fail, 264 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: where there was a large issue concerning gambling. For example, 265 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: there's a streamer named x q C. He literally had 266 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: ads in promo codes for gambling websites. Kids would watch 267 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: him make a lot of money and get inspired to join. 268 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: They'd be able to they would make a lot of 269 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: money gambling and that's a new concept. Um But he 270 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: says then they'd be able to access the website through 271 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: vpn is to get around the age restriction. Interesting, And 272 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: there's another streamer who moved to Canada to avoid the 273 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: legal disputes with gambling. There are a lot of clips 274 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: screenshots in proof that these streamers knew what they were 275 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: doing taking advantage of folks. This is the current drama. 276 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: And it's easy to search gambling through the subreddit. You'll 277 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: get a lot of posts. How can you use a 278 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: VPN to bypass age restriction? Isn't that kind of just 279 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: on our system, like, well, that's like asking your age. Yeah, 280 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: that's interesting. I'm not sure how that would actually function 281 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: in practice. I know, if you've if you use something 282 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: like Brave server in and you use their tour services 283 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: that they offer, you can get around some things like that. 284 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: So I'm assuming using a VPN could also get around 285 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: some some kind of restrictions that maybe I'm just not 286 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: aware of. In the past, there are a lot of 287 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: issues about loot boxes, c s, go skins, you know, 288 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: talking about gambling, you know, from just the setup of 289 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: a game where you have to pay to get a 290 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: chance to get something good, and then you'll pay a 291 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: lot of money to increase your chances. Uh. And then 292 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: let's jump down here to the part where Bronze ranked 293 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: Boomer mentions the dark side of just chatting. He says, 294 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: twitches not only cater to gamers. You can stream almost anything, 295 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: and there's a category called just chatting, and that is 296 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: the I think where the interesting conversation happens here, because 297 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: for a long time that platform was specifically to watch 298 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: people game. We've mentioned Twitch before and how it's evolved 299 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: over the years to do things like art. I think 300 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: they called it creative back in the day where you 301 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: could do all kinds of different things like Bob Ross 302 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: but like on the Internet, and you know, and it's 303 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: just a way for a content creator to have an 304 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: audience essentially that's live that can interact with them, Right, 305 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: that's really what you're what the whole point of the 306 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: platform is to have a live audience interaction. Um So, 307 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: just to compare to what we're doing right now, there's 308 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: four of us on a zoom chat and we're talking 309 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: to each other like this, we're having a conversation, but 310 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: the audience is only here because we're bringing you know, 311 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: everybody else into the conversation through these messages. In this case, 312 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: it's all live. It's all happening real time. And I 313 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: think that's where at least bronze ranked Boomer is maybe 314 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: seeing some issues that are cropping up. Yeah, it's something 315 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: like you know, I was not fully aware of I've 316 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: always you know, maybe it's not my platform with choice, 317 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: but I was not fully aware of Twitch as being 318 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: something outside of just gaming, because I mean, you know, 319 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: there's YouTube live, there's like Instagram stories and lives and 320 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: all that stuff. There's so many other places to do 321 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: what we're talking about. But Twitch is much more of 322 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: like an active, engaged kind of community for that. But 323 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: I didn't realize that it was practically venturing into like 324 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: cam girl territory, um somewhat pornographic in ways, or like 325 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: maybe not pornographic but problematic, um some fetishy type behavior 326 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: and like slightly kinky stuff. And I am I overstating 327 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: the case here, isn't it? That's certainly the picture that's 328 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: being painted um by our emailer, right that they're so 329 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 1: some things that are maybe not appropriate for younger children. Right. 330 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: So Twitch has been a place for younger people to 331 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: go and watch someone play a video game for a 332 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: long time. As it is evolved, there are many people 333 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: who have issues with some of these things. Yeah, Twitch, 334 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: while this is the new technology, has kind of teasing 335 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: at the top. But Twitch is you know, very well 336 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: established now and for many people it has become one 337 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: of their primary modes of interaction. But with this, with 338 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: any new newer technology or platform, we see that there 339 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: are there are any number of issues, right, things that 340 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: maybe tech gurs would call bumps in the road or 341 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: areas of opportunity. That's a term that a lot of 342 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: human resource departments work tend to use instead of the 343 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: P word problems what Boomer says, and and again Boomer, 344 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: this is quite This is a quite in depth, thorough 345 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 1: piece of correspondence. Going to summarize a little bit. Uh, 346 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: and Matt tell me if I get off base here. Uh. 347 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: It seems like what Boomer is concerned about here is 348 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: the line between what is or is not appropriate for 349 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: h for underage people to see or to do on 350 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: these channels. In some cases, because to the earlier point 351 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: that one of you guys brought up, it can be 352 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:32,239 Speaker 1: difficult to actually verify somebody's age online, you know what 353 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: I mean, Like it's it's an incredibly easy process to 354 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: circumvent this. By the way, this morality argument is going 355 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: to be one of the continuing arguments for further government 356 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: control over Internet access as well as monitoring. We're not 357 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: too far away from a world wherein you will have 358 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: to have your state issued idea on record with you know, 359 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: Comcast or whatever they're calling themselves is nowadays ex affinity 360 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: and this you know. The devilish thing about this argument 361 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: is that there is validity to it. So it seems 362 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: like what Boomer is saying is like, these things can 363 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: get out of hand very quickly. Would you say that's 364 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: accurate that? Yeah, it certainly seems that way. So I 365 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: don't know much about this at all, but I'll just 366 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: tell you what I learned in from the moment of 367 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: receiving this literally half an hour ago to talking about 368 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: it right now. You can find a lot of things 369 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: that are being mentioned here in this email, and we 370 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: didn't even bring up but a few of the things 371 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: are weirdness happening where streamers were being banned by the 372 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: platform for generally being odd, let's say, odd behavior. Would 373 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: we consider that, like, um, one person was and I'm 374 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: not gonna mention the names here, you can look it 375 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: up if you'd like, but one person was wearing a 376 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: horsehead mask, which isn't all that weird. That's a fun thing, 377 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 1: silly thing to do, but yeah, of course, but they 378 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: were uh slamming said horse head mask into a three 379 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: d O microphone, one of those binaural microphones, and just 380 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: like slamming their head into it repeatedly. Um, in making 381 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: the horse noises and just being weird. A lot of 382 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: these things that you're talking about, like this area would 383 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: be considered extreme a SMR you know, like using these 384 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: binaural mics, and they're even like you know, there was 385 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,479 Speaker 1: another I think it's the horse mask girl is one 386 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: of the ones. And then there's a guy, um who 387 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: I think they worked together. They at least, you know, 388 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,479 Speaker 1: communicate together, who they make videos together. But they were 389 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: like doing stuff like like farting into like headsets, like 390 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: gaming headsets, and like licking the microphones and stuff and 391 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: like doing this you know, like morderlie on borderline fetishistic 392 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: type behavior and you know also a little odd. And 393 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: obviously these streamers get paid by the stream um and 394 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: the platform has you know, its own standards or whatever. 395 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: It's good community guidelines, and so they were both band 396 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: and and deem demonetized, you know, as you know, can happen. UM. 397 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: So you're right, it is a moral thing where it's 398 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: like who is this for? How is this inappropriate? It 399 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: is a weird thing because as we said, the advertisers 400 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 1: are somewhat the most important thing. They are the most 401 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: important thing to the business of the company twitch, which 402 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: is the big thing here. UM. So anytime you've got 403 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,719 Speaker 1: a popular person, no matter what they're doing, the company 404 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: is being served, you know, on the bottom line. So 405 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: then the company has to make a decision on whether 406 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 1: or not that content you know, offends enough people, I 407 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: guess to make a change depending on the how much 408 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,239 Speaker 1: they're actually making a stream for that person. Yeah, just 409 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: to just to interject, I don't want to derail us. 410 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: That's something I said off air and preparation for this episode, 411 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: which may sound cynical, but I think ultimately, if you 412 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: look at most corporations across the planet, most for profit entities, 413 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: there is a calculus made and things change when someone 414 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: somewhere says the cost of the legal liability or potential 415 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: legal action outweighs the profit that we can reasonably assume 416 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: we'll make. So that's I mean, and and companies can 417 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: talk about morality all the livelong day, but I think 418 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: there's a quantitative basis to those decisions agreed. One of 419 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: the big questions for me is how do you then 420 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: restrict something like that if you get enough pushback from 421 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: enough people as a company to say, hey, maybe this 422 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: should be age restricted or something like that, Um, why 423 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 1: would not do that? It's It's another thing I um 424 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: I think I may have mentioned briefly off air, which 425 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: is that this goes into in a legal sense, this 426 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: goes into morality laws. What you know, and what one 427 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,479 Speaker 1: person considers wholly appropriate is what other people would consider, 428 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: you know, downright blast this right, even if they don't 429 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: understand it. It may make them uncomfortable and they may 430 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: be like, mm no that the noises that person with 431 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: a horse mask is making or just unclean. Right, And 432 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: this this is a huge issue in jurisprudence in general. 433 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: I would call attention to the case about whether or 434 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: not James Joyce's Ulysses was pornographic or whether it was 435 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: you know, to basically too saucy to be sold in 436 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: in the States because you know, how would you put 437 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: a good age requirement on that book? Similar problem, right, 438 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 1: And so what they concluded was one of those famous, uh, 439 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: those those famous rulings like what is what is it appropriate? Well, 440 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: they say pornography, but what is inappropriate? I'll I know 441 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: it when I see it? And that's what people are 442 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: still struggling with. And there's not really at this point 443 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: without fully knowing everybody who watches the piece of content, 444 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: or fully knowing the people who may get there's therefore 445 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: tracking them. There's not really a way to cleanly come 446 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: up with a policy. It's too open ended. Isn't it 447 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: interesting though that books and and you know, publishing has 448 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: never really had like parental advisory warnings the way music 449 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: and video games do. I mean, there's certainly all books 450 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 1: that other than nudy bags, right, I'm talking about books 451 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,199 Speaker 1: like like Tropical Cancer, you know, I mean, like that 452 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: is absolutely there's pornographic writing in there. But yet you've 453 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: never seen a book that says must be eighteen to 454 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: buy or check out this book from the library. You know, 455 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: there's no age restrictions on books and those books. That's 456 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: exactly right. But I want to point out when there 457 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: you're talking about like how do you you know there 458 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: there's a lot of questions, but like on Twitch in particular, 459 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: how do you like reconcile all this stuff like what 460 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: is Twitch? What is their mission? That isn't really funny? 461 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: Like a lot of this uh controversy came with this 462 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: category of like hot tub videos or like you know, 463 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: twitch streamers um are playing video games I guess in 464 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: hot tubs kind of scantily clad. Uh, And it caused 465 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: sort of an uproar, and so Twitch rather than outright 466 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: banning this hot tub content, which is actually pretty popular. 467 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: They created a category called Pools, hot Tubs and Beaches 468 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: um and apparently the most popular stream in that category, 469 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: which now still can include these hot tub videos, is 470 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: a live stream a constant twenty four our live stream 471 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: of these like otters at the Vancouver Zoo. That's wholesome. 472 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: It's very wholesome. So they sort of they sort of 473 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: fixed the problem. You know, you gotta dig for the 474 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: content a little bit more now. I think maybe it 475 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: was just like bait and switch kind of where people 476 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: were thinking they were signing up for more traditional Twitch 477 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: streams and they were getting this slightly more like, let's 478 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: call it titillating content. This is related to think this 479 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: would be of interest to both you and Bronze Boomer 480 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: here Bronze ring Boomer uh, as well as many other 481 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:03,479 Speaker 1: people listening along today. There's another issue that has received 482 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: some press quite recently on Twitch, which is the rise 483 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: of Twitches, an extremist platform. Right like morality is, or 484 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: perceptions of morality, are much harder to negotiate or to 485 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: you know, legislating a fair way or make a policy about, 486 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: and a lot of times you know, corporations aren't really 487 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: incentivized to do it, but Twitch has gone from you know, 488 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: beyond video games to be in your great platform for 489 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: anti vaccination conspiracies another you know, people who are so 490 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: far right that they got kicked off Twitter. So I 491 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: would say there's that's another facet of a larger thing 492 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: that Boomer is talking about in in the letter here. Yeah, 493 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: and and I'll give you just two quick examples we'll 494 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: get out of here. When we got this letter, I 495 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: went to twitch dot tv. It's been a long time 496 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: since I logged in, so I didn't have my logging credential, 497 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: so I just went there as a random user that's 498 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: not logged in. And two of the first things I 499 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: was presented with. One of them is amaranth amerranth Amaranth. 500 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: I think is how you say it? Um? That person 501 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: was mentioned in several of the stories that that our 502 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: emailer mentioned, and she was dancing to a song in 503 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: a pink bra and there were thirty thousands something people 504 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: watching her. I just said, okay, well that's what one 505 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: person is doing, went over to click on the next one. 506 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: It was a person named Hassan Abby or a b 507 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: I and that person was reading an article on Insider 508 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: and responding to commentary. Both of these streamers were promoting 509 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: their Instagram accounts, and I thought it would be it 510 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: would be interesting to see, like, you know, if there's 511 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: two people on here, they're both doing what the emailer mentioned, 512 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: just chatting. Let's just like look at the difference at 513 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: what kinds of free speech are being you know, exercised here. Uh. 514 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: One of the instagram's I would say, I think objectively 515 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: suggestive images of one of the people streaming. The other 516 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: one had images of a person doing all kinds of things, 517 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: including holding a R fifteen s. So you know, you 518 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: just wonder, like, where are the lines, like you said, 519 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: been with with free speech? Should there be any lines? 520 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: What do you think? How do you feel about Twitch? 521 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: What have you experienced when you're on there? Is there 522 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: a actually a dark side? Or is this more of 523 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: a morality argument thing? And that's it and we don't 524 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: need to think about it anymore. You tell us, Uh, 525 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: we look forward to hearing what you have to say. 526 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for writing in, and we'll be back with more 527 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: listener mail. And we have returned for the final act 528 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: of this week's Listener Mail segment. This is taking us 529 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: to Bosnia courtesy of a wonderful letter and a little 530 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: bit of a funny story. First, get this nickname I 531 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: love well. Actually, just wait for the nickname. At the 532 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: end of this I'll read this first letter and then 533 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: share what's going on. Hey guys, I found your show 534 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: last year and listen to it almost every day now. 535 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for always keeping the show so varied. There are 536 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: two subjects which I find vastly interesting, where I'm not 537 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: sure if you have covered it. The first is Bigfoot. Oh, buddy, 538 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: you're the right place we have uh, and we'll get 539 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: to that in sect anyway, The letter continues, I'm based 540 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: in the United Kingdom and find the stories around the 541 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: Sasquatch fascinating, as they are all over the world, with 542 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: so many similarities that it seems impossible to believe it 543 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: can be faith. The second topic is the Bosnian Pyramids. 544 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: I don't know much about it, but based on what 545 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: I've read, there's a lot to discuss with a lot 546 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: of mystery surrounding it. Keep up the great work and 547 00:31:53,280 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: keep watching the guys your skeptically Zach Squash like like sasquatch, 548 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: but Zach Squatch The nickname alone. Thank you so much, 549 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: Zack Squatch. So I did a search because we receive 550 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: a lot of correspondence. I'll read correspondencies about topics that 551 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: kind of cycle in and out, often based on the news, 552 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: because the news is its own sort of or a 553 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: boros kind of recursive thing. And I wondered because I 554 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: had also similar to the story of the oval Blob 555 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: when I was younger. I wondered whether there was any 556 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: sand to the idea of ancient pyramids, and Matt back 557 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: in the day, you and I did a pretty pretty 558 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: good piece on non Egyptian pyramids, I believe, um. I 559 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: can't remember the zach here, but we made We did 560 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: mention these a little, uh, but not not too much 561 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: in depth. So I searched to see if other people 562 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: had asked for it, and then I found hopefully more 563 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: endearing than embarrassing. And then I found that back in 564 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: the Old Man Bulan himself had written in about this. 565 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: I completely ignored his email. I think I may afforded 566 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: it to you guys, but sorry, Dad, if you're listening 567 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: now that someone else has asked, we're going to talk 568 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, yeah, man, we did. I think it 569 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: was it was like, what what about the other pyramids 570 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: or something like that. It was it was a long 571 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: time ago. It's yeah, okay, great, great memory there, mat 572 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,719 Speaker 1: So here's what's going on there. There's a cluster of 573 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: hills in central Bosnia and here's the go Vina and 574 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: it's in an area called Fisoko. This cluster of hills, 575 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: if you look at it does look like you could 576 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: see why it looks like a pyramid, especially considering that 577 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: so many natural human made structures over time have been 578 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: uh like they've been taken back by nature, right, so 579 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: they turned into mounds. It's very you could see amazing 580 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: ruins if you shaved the jungle to the ground. Basically 581 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: in Central America. I've included here, uh picture of the 582 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: hills I'm talking about there in the Vestuco area, and 583 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: would you guys like to describe them. I'd love to 584 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: hear your takes. Well, I'm looking at a pyramid that's 585 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: covered with trees. That's what I'm looking at. It looks 586 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: like a topi area, like a massive bush that was like, 587 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: you know, trimmed into the shape of a pyramid. You know. 588 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: Then there's a similar one on one of the links 589 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: you provided emerging dash europe dot Com. It's just I 590 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 1: think it's just a slightly different angle of the same thing. 591 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: And it really does, at certain angles look like straight lines, 592 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: straight diagonal lines going down, not you know, not any 593 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,720 Speaker 1: kind of normal erosion happening on a on a slope. 594 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,439 Speaker 1: It's really weird, right yeah. And uh ding ding ding. 595 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: You're all the money with the idea about angles. It's 596 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: similar to reports of a large face on Mars. From 597 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: the right angle, it does look like a huge uh 598 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: face on Mars. However, this this story is is a 599 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: little more complicated, I think because the primary claims are 600 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: from an archaeologists self taught named Sam osman Uh and 601 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,880 Speaker 1: I may be mispronouncing the name here. Sam is the 602 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,959 Speaker 1: one of the primary champions of this idea. He says 603 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: that twelve thousand years ago, early Europeans in Bosnia didn't 604 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: just build pyramids, they built the largest ancient pyramids on 605 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 1: the planet. He is a he himself as a Bosnian 606 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: American businessman. He's been making these claims since at least 607 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: two thousand and five. The problem is a lot of first, 608 00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people, sadly Zack Squatch disagree and sadly, 609 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: Mr Bull that they disagree because the idea here is 610 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 1: the idea here is tantalizing, right. But unfortunately the other 611 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: like research into this hasn't borne out Sam's initial claims. 612 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 1: Why does it sound kind of reasonable, to be honest 613 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,280 Speaker 1: with you, Well, it's because so many ancient pyramids exist, 614 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: and we talked about this in our earlier episode, due 615 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: to the fact that human beings are all relatively the 616 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: same level of intelligence, right, and they all figured out 617 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: at separate times that stacking rocks together with a larger 618 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: base that tapers at the top is a really efficient 619 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: way to build piles of stuff. Like it's it's dis gravity. Uh, 620 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 1: this doesn't necessitate the presence of extraterrestrials or multidimensional entities 621 00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: in this case. People were already saying that, you know, 622 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: this guy was maybe being sincere but definitely pseudo scientific, 623 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: and they busted his claims a little bit. But he's 624 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: he's claimed that there are tunnels around the Hill complex. 625 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: They're part of an ancient man made underground network. He 626 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: claims to have found fossilized plant matter in these tunnels 627 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:29,240 Speaker 1: dating back thirty four thousand years. Uh. He also hasn't 628 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: really helped his case by claiming that there is unusual 629 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: activity at the top of these pyramids that you know, 630 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,760 Speaker 1: the locals consider hills. He says that there are standing 631 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: waves he being he's encountered there that travel faster than light. 632 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: Improve the idea of a cosmic internet, which will allow 633 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: you to communicate across the universe, which may happen one 634 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: day as scientific progress continues. He also believes in ancient astronauts. 635 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: He claims human beings are the product of genetic engineering. 636 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: What I'm saying is for the rank and file of 637 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: the academy, he's not He's not making a case for 638 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 1: what they would consider to be his credibility. And if you, 639 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,240 Speaker 1: like you said Matt, if you look at the hills 640 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: from a different angle, they do not look as pyramid shaped. 641 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:24,280 Speaker 1: They look much more rounded, They look less like man 642 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 1: made construction. And also, just to give you some context, 643 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realists, the article that match just mentioned earlier 644 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,760 Speaker 1: emerging dash europe dot com. The headline of that article, 645 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: the title of that article is is Pretty Telling? Is 646 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: by Nicola Doordovic. The title is are their ancient pyramids 647 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: in Bosnia? Probably not? Unfortunately, because look, when we have 648 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: we have to talk about stuff like this or I 649 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: don't know about um, I don't know about my colleagues here, 650 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: but when we have to talk about stuff like this, 651 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: I wanted to be real if I wanted something, and 652 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: you know, I know we're both. I want to believers. 653 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: Uh can we say that? No, that's exactly what where 654 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: I want to believers. I think there's a b in there. Oh, 655 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 1: it's a Justin Bieber thing. He'll turn it around. It's 656 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 1: stuff work to be a musician, you know, it's like 657 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: the professional and I know you know you're on the 658 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: same page. We have to be honest with ourselves and 659 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: with the facts when we look at this stuff. But 660 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: another thing that puts it in a weird light for 661 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people is I think a little unfair. 662 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: It's that he's Bosnian American, and so the idea is, oh, 663 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 1: you discovered history's most important pyramids and they just happen 664 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: to be where you're from, You know what I mean. 665 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: I think that's an unfair accusation, but I can see 666 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: why people might reject it. But also, how would you 667 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,799 Speaker 1: treat it if you were a local? Would you be 668 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 1: in affects. I mean, yeah, is there is there are 669 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,800 Speaker 1: there like a secret doors, Like I want to go inside. 670 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: It looks like there's merch and stuff like it's obviously 671 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 1: something that the area has taken made into almost like 672 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,439 Speaker 1: a trying to make the name for themselves, like a destination, right, 673 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: Like I said, it's super smart, but I also like 674 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: I want to know more. I want to go inside. 675 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: You gotta visit, you gotta spend money at the cafes 676 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 1: a couple of nights. Yeah, I see some pyramid crocs 677 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 1: almost like going on here place matt and leather goods, 678 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,240 Speaker 1: things like that. I mean, yeah, pretty clever. Yeah, happening 679 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: in Roswell as well. You know it's it's happening in 680 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: the small town that is associated with Mexico Zone of Silence, 681 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: which was in that previous episode. I think we we 682 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: we made a strong argument that it was knowingly a 683 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 1: tourist It was like designed to be a tourist attraction. 684 00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: But with this, the question is how much uh this 685 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:06,760 Speaker 1: one champion of this idea genuinely believes in it since 686 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 1: two thousand and five, well between two thousand and five 687 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,839 Speaker 1: to two thousand and nine, just four years at the time, 688 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: there was an excellent article written about this in the Smithsonian. 689 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: More than four hundred thousand people have visited the site, 690 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: and they were selling you know, like you said, well, 691 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: there's a lot of merch. Piggy banks, clocks, flip flops, 692 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: you can eat, you can go to restaurants. See this 693 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: sounds fun. You can go to restaurants and you'll lead 694 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: on pyramid shaped plates. I guess that means triangles. I'm 695 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: not sure, like are they three D? And it's just 696 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 1: really tricky to purchase the sandwich on it. It's just 697 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: mcgetty just like dropped down the pyramid. Then did you 698 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 1: mention torsion fields the standing waves? I think maybe the same, 699 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,839 Speaker 1: But what are the torsion fields? It's it's just like 700 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: the you know, that's just gentleman. Again. All this is 701 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:01,839 Speaker 1: coming from him. I think believes that the pyramids are 702 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,799 Speaker 1: capable of communicating using torsion field, which is like a 703 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: theoretical physics concept. I believe um it is a field 704 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,919 Speaker 1: that can travel faster than the speed of light. Yeah, 705 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 1: that's what he's talking about earlier, like a universal Internet 706 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 1: communication system, I think literally universal, that's the idea. One 707 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: day maybe but it does not appear sides of the 708 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,359 Speaker 1: source of what he is called those standing waves, and 709 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: he's attributing it to this like mega advanced civilization that 710 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,959 Speaker 1: like they have this technology that we can't possibly wrap 711 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: our hands around. Um. But yeah, we don't really have 712 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: any evidence of this civilization or any you know, fossil 713 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: record or anything like that. I really just have. I mean, 714 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:43,920 Speaker 1: I don't know what what is it? If it's not 715 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 1: that it's crazy looking that you can't understand it, No, 716 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,319 Speaker 1: that's the whole point sometimes and anybody else can't understand it. 717 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,279 Speaker 1: It's like if you saw the face of God, your 718 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: mind would just break. Sometimes the hill is just a hill, Uh, 719 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 1: would doesn't make it any less remarkable because nature is 720 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,799 Speaker 1: amazing and astonishing. There's there's something else here, you know, 721 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,400 Speaker 1: maybe not a conspiracy, but there's something very important that 722 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 1: we need to understand, which is how Wish folks talked 723 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,880 Speaker 1: about this more often. Archaeology is a weapon. It can 724 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 1: be weaponized. It is used to to legitimate any number 725 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:29,319 Speaker 1: of claims. Um and decisions to not engage in some 726 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,320 Speaker 1: digs are have been used in the past to prevent 727 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 1: the legitimization of certain groups this continues today. It's quite 728 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: controversial in different parts of the world, and it tells 729 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: us something about what we could call the political uses 730 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,759 Speaker 1: of archaeology. There's an anthropologist named Philip Cole over at 731 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 1: Wellesley College who thinks that Osmanigitch's attempts to create pyramids 732 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 1: from these hills are part of a larger push to 733 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 1: have a sense of identity, a sense of self affirmation, 734 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: and and Cold raises this is interesting to me. I'm 735 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,400 Speaker 1: not sure how far along I can go with it. 736 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:19,200 Speaker 1: But Cole argues that when the Iron Curtain collapsed in 737 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,440 Speaker 1: the former Eastern Block, all these land and territorial claims 738 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:28,280 Speaker 1: came up and people had quote just lost their ideological moorings. 739 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: So he says, there's a great attraction and being able 740 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 1: to say we have great ancestors, we go back millennia, 741 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,839 Speaker 1: and we can claim these special places for ourselves. He says, 742 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,239 Speaker 1: in some places this is relatively benign, in others it 743 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,880 Speaker 1: can be malignant. And it makes sense. I mean, it 744 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,840 Speaker 1: goes beyond tourism. Right, There's there's this idea. It's very tempting. 745 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 1: I think if you feel connected to a place, to 746 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,879 Speaker 1: hear that it is extraordinary, unique, special. Those are true 747 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: of every place in the world, by the way, but 748 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,440 Speaker 1: to hear that something maybe even supernatural, is going on, 749 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 1: maybe your home is the seat of low civilization, Well 750 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: it's very tempting to associate yourself with that, you know 751 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,080 Speaker 1: what I mean. Next thing, you know, you've got someone 752 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,719 Speaker 1: saying I am descended from Atlantis, And nothing you can 753 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 1: say will change my mind about that fact because now 754 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,319 Speaker 1: it is a part of my identity. I'm not saying 755 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 1: that's conclusively what's happening with Osmanigitch, but it but it is. 756 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,560 Speaker 1: It is interesting, and there's where I propose we leave 757 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,480 Speaker 1: it for today. Thank you so much Zach's Watch your 758 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:40,240 Speaker 1: Nickname made my absolute week. Do check out that episode 759 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:45,319 Speaker 1: about other pyramids. And thank you as well to Jake, 760 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 1: and thank you to Bronze Brainked Boomer. These are some 761 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,359 Speaker 1: great stories today, lots of fun ones since some food 762 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,240 Speaker 1: for thought with that gamer stuff. Um, it's an interesting 763 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: time to be a lot and I'm constantly learning about 764 00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:02,560 Speaker 1: new weird corners the Internet every day, which is weird 765 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,479 Speaker 1: considering we like live on the Internet. UM, never cease 766 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,719 Speaker 1: this to amaze me, and Ben, I have to say, 767 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,719 Speaker 1: I just found that email from Papa Bowling and now 768 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,759 Speaker 1: I've got his cell phone number, so I'm wanna call you. 769 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 1: I gotta call your dad, dude. It's probably a burner 770 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: by this point. I mean it's been a it's been 771 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,399 Speaker 1: a year, it's been three months, it's probably Yeah. Well, 772 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,680 Speaker 1: if you want to take a page from our fellow 773 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,360 Speaker 1: conspiracy realists, uh, feel free, right, and we'd love to 774 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,600 Speaker 1: hear from you, especially with ideas for new topics that 775 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,160 Speaker 1: we can cover in episodes in the future. We try 776 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 1: to be easy to find online. Oh boy, are we ever? 777 00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,880 Speaker 1: You can find us at Conspiracy Stuff on Facebook, Twitter 778 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,880 Speaker 1: and also YouTube. And while you're on the internet, why 779 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,000 Speaker 1: don't you pop over to iTunes or your podcatcher choice 780 00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,359 Speaker 1: and leave us a smashing five star review. We'd really 781 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,600 Speaker 1: appreciate it. You can also give us a telephone call. 782 00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,879 Speaker 1: It's true, that's right. Number is one eight three three 783 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 1: st d w y t K. When you call in, 784 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,600 Speaker 1: give yourself a cool nickname or your name however you 785 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,200 Speaker 1: want for us to refer to you as that's a 786 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 1: weird way to say that. Hey, let us know if 787 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,400 Speaker 1: we can use your message on the air. They'll be 788 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,680 Speaker 1: very helpful. And if you find that you've got more 789 00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:24,239 Speaker 1: than three minutes worth of a message, we highly recommend 790 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,400 Speaker 1: that you instead shoot us an email. We are conspiracy 791 00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:49,520 Speaker 1: at i heeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want 792 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,880 Speaker 1: you to know. Is a production of I heart Radio. 793 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 794 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,440 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 795 00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:58,280 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.