1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: today's best minds. We're off for the holidays, but that 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: doesn't mean we don't have a fantastic show for you 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: today with some captivating interviews. January six insurrection survivor and 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: author of Hold the Line, the insurrection in one Cops 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: Battle for America's Soul, Michael Pinone tells us his thoughts 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: on the aftermath of January six. But first we have 9 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: author of Survival of the Richest, our favorite tech explainer 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,639 Speaker 1: and also a longtime friend, Doug rush Koff, is here 11 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: to talk about Twitter and f t X. Welcome back 12 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, our favorite Doug Rushkoff. I'm so happy 13 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: to be with you. I'd like to think of you 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: as our tech billionaire correspondent. I'm sorry that was so me. 15 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: No just tech, no billionaire, But in this case we 16 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: have a billionaire. Tech in billionaires becomes synonymous, unfortunately, unfortunately, 17 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: so we got to talk about what is happening here 18 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: with Elon mush It's so funny. It is a weird week, 19 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: isn't it. It's like I haven't had a week like 20 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: this since like that the dot com bust, you know, 21 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: and like March two thousand, it is it is wild. 22 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: I mean, we're watching with Musk and it's funny because 23 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: last time I was comparing him to uh, Charlie Sheen. 24 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: This is like end stage, you know, Tiger Blood. We 25 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: are watching the dissolution of this character. I mean, it's 26 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: interesting for people who love him and I and I 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: understand why some people do. What he meant. What he 28 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: was thinking was not to get just to get Twitter 29 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: and get Trump back on there and destroy the country. 30 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: He was really thinking of Twitter to become this kind 31 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: of everything platform. It would be our identity, our money 32 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: at crypto and as well as a means of social control. 33 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: But right it would be this kind of new operating 34 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: system for society where Twitter isn't just a platform, it's 35 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: kind of the protocols for this new sort of open standard, 36 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: accelerationist libertarian future. But it's like Musk can't resist wanting 37 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: to be the supervillain, you know, we just can't get 38 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: so instead we get this kind of algorithmic skinner box 39 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: to to stoke crowd rage and bring on just full crazy. 40 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: So for him, Twitter is not really the prize. Chaos 41 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: is the prize. It's the kind of the socio political 42 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: turmoil that's generated by Twitter chaos, and Trump is like 43 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: the driving force for this collapse oriented social change. So 44 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: let's talk about this for a second, because clearly that 45 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: is like in his head and he's like into the 46 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: supervillain idea. And we saw this reporting today where he 47 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: said we're not moving the business to Texas because it's 48 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: not going to be right wing, it's just going to 49 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: be non left wing, which I think is an important 50 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: thing he's trying. I mean, again, I don't think what 51 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: he's saying is true. I'm not even sure what he's saying. 52 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: He thinks he's true right like it seems to me 53 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: like but and again it's impossible to know what looks 54 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 1: in the hearts and minds of any of these people. 55 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: But it is interesting to me he can't say he's 56 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: right wing because he's worried it will undermine the site. 57 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: So he does still have when he clearly is right, 58 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: he's only he's only participating in that very small sliverer 59 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: of right wing Twitter. So my question to you is 60 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: there clearly are some financial concerns here, right he's got 61 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: this Tesla stock. The stock is losing value and the 62 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: dead it is piling up. I mean, you know, he 63 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: is not a magical supervillain, so he has bills to pay. 64 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: So can he this going or does it just crash 65 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: and burn in a month? It's hard to say. I 66 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: look at him more as a puppet than a puppet master, 67 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: and I don't think he quite interestalizes it. I mean, 68 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: he's got a lot of money, but you know his 69 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: second biggest partner in in Twitter is what Prince al 70 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: Walid been Tellal from Saudi Arabia who rolled over from 71 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: the earlier investment. So he's got a partner, no, but 72 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: he added more. What does he want? You know, Saudi 73 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: Arabia has been trying to get oil off the dollar 74 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: standard for a super long time. They are certainly no 75 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: friends of America right now. You know, this guy, this 76 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: prince is the one that gave Juliani a ten million 77 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: dollar check after nine eleven along with advice that America 78 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: evaluate its own policies in the region. Right, So we 79 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: kind of gave it back, right. So here's a guy 80 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: who wants to get us off the dollar standard, wants 81 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: to get oil off it and is investing in a 82 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: guy that wants to build sort of we chat money 83 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: system total everything for America, and someone who's trying to 84 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: bring on chaos and become kind of the techno monarch 85 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: in this new kind of digital authoritarianism. What Musk is 86 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: showing is that no, these kind of ceo testla skills 87 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: are not transferable into monarchy, into running everything. You can't. 88 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: He can't even run up freaking social network. He's not 89 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: going to run a nation or or a planet. And 90 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: that's because really his actual competence maybe was in marketing cars, 91 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: but not not in this. There's no you know, generic 92 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: ceo king like genius, where the skills are just are 93 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: just transferable. Right. His ideas are basically stupid, Right, He's rich, 94 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: he's not smart, certainly, not about civics, government, economics, society, 95 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: or human psychology, you know, our public health. Musk is 96 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: particularly bad at this sort of the way. Trump is 97 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: particularly bad being president. I don't think his empire is over. 98 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: He's still got his rocket ships, he's still got his cars. 99 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: He's still is just one giant debacle. I guess it 100 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: undermines the market, the stock market's faith in his continuing 101 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: ability to kind of pull a rabbit out of a hat. 102 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: So like, if they see, you know, Tesla sales reaching 103 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: a plateau, they might no longer believe, Oh, Musk has 104 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: the mightas touch to get us through this next thing. 105 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: And when at CEO loses the mightus touched. You know, 106 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 1: if Steve Jobs really lost the mightas touch at some point, 107 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: I guess he did an Apple, you know, Apple would 108 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: go down until they brought him back. So that's a 109 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: really good point. I mean, he sort of can be 110 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: a wide ranging supervillain until the investors calling the dad right, 111 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: just like until you know, Trump is a supervillain until 112 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: we we vote him out. But then the real question 113 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,799 Speaker 1: is is he just you know, I always know Charlie 114 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: Sheen was to you know, it is to Trump as 115 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: Trump was to Musk. But what about if you think 116 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: about it as Musk is sort of version one point 117 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: oh of techno monarch, just like Trump was kind of 118 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: version one point oh of authoritarian insane president, just as 119 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: someone like de Santis, say, can come in and be 120 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: a slightly more reasonable looking and competent version of Trump. 121 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: Maybe you know, I'm more scared of a desantist president Trump. 122 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: What if someone like Peter THEO comes in and is 123 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: musk two point Oh, you know, Teal could use Musk 124 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: kind of as the beta test and sacrificial lamb to 125 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: use Teal's no language of scapegoating for his own strategy 126 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: to be a techno monarch. But most of these guys, 127 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: I think once they get in charge, they kind of 128 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: reveal themselves as having these weird child brains. You know. 129 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: It's like, no, I mean that is the thing you 130 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: know that's been so disappointing to me is that I've 131 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: for so long thought being married to a nice VC 132 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: that technology would solve all our problem this and I 133 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: think like this guy is one of the great brains 134 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: behind it, Elon Musk. We're all in a lot of trouble. 135 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: So we need to talk about this text message, right. 136 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: We don't know who it's from, this uh text message congratulations. 137 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: The article about was laying at some of the things 138 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: that might happen. Step one, blame the platform for its user, 139 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: Step to coordinate pressure campaign, Step three, accodus of blue chap, 140 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: step forward platform NG, it will be a war. Let 141 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: the battle begin. What do you think this means? I 142 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: think it means they think that somehow there's a left 143 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: wing conspiracy trying to fight the truth and justice. You 144 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: know that Alan Musk is trying to bring to our world. 145 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: But it's not right, I mean clearly. But the thing 146 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: that I'm curious about here with this is Okay, So 147 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: the idea here is that he brings back and we've 148 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: already seen he's bringing back Trump. He brought back this 149 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: uh Andrew whatever his name is, this British boxer who 150 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: had been taken off the platform. He's brought back a 151 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: lot of those kind of people. He won't bring back 152 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: Alice Jones because he had a baby that died, so like, 153 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's a right wing but with like a 154 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: little bit of like wacky billionaire with the backstory. And then, 155 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: by the way, that was an amazing interaction where he 156 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: was like I had a baby that died. At all 157 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: the comments were like how dare you not bring Alex 158 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: Jones back? Like instead of like we're so sorry you 159 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: had a baby that died. I mean, like incredible stuff, 160 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: right exactly, No, no, well deserved, but like you, the 161 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: Leopards are more than happy to eat his face. But 162 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: the thinking here is he's gonna bring all the right 163 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: wing people back. But what I don't think he understands. 164 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: And again I could be wrong, but this is just 165 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: my sense. If you're you have CBS posing tweeting right, 166 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: because of the fact that there's now you know, they're 167 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: all these blue checks who are you know, not necessarily verified, 168 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: So there's no sense like you could certainly have an 169 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: imposter who would just look like you and there'd be 170 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: no way to verify it, and they're is not. You know, 171 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: he's cut average. You know, he's cut the people who 172 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: deal with advertising. He's cut the people who deal with technology. Right. 173 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: So my question is when we're in this world where 174 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 1: we have so few of the people that advertisers would 175 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: need and also news outlet its would need, if he 176 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: brings back all those people, won't we see less and 177 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: less news outlets And won't that lead to just sort 178 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: of him taking Twitter and making it truth social? Yeah, 179 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: if he could, I mean that's the thing. But Trump 180 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: doesn't even want to join. Oh my god, it's like 181 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: they signed on, you know, Howard Stern on x M, 182 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: and then he goes, I'm not going to do the show. 183 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: So it's like all this all this stuff. I mean, 184 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: Trump was going to be as headliner. That's like getting 185 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 1: you know, Brittany and Vegas or something. It's like, now 186 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: you've got nothing, What are you gonna How are you 187 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: gonna open your hotel? Didn't he know that? Because Trump 188 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: has this deal with true social where he has to 189 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: appear on that platform eight hours before or twelve hours before. 190 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: You would a thunk so right, But these are again, 191 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: these are like children with post it notes up in 192 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: their little brains. They're they're not thinking, and so you 193 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: think he just thought, I'll just get it'll be too 194 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: much of a he'll want to do it, and he 195 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: won't care about the money. Of course, it's too tempting, 196 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: it's too many millions of people. He'll fold in. He'll 197 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: he'll do an auto thing where maybe he'll be on 198 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: his own thing, but every one of his tweets will 199 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: you know, automatically robot onto Twitter or something. You know. 200 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure he was thinking, thinking that and thinking that 201 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: that that he would save it. But it's odd. It's 202 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: like aln Is turning Twitter whatever it was, some sort 203 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: of you know, bastardized news thing into you know, full 204 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: on Jerry Springer. I think in the belief that you know, 205 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: and he said this entertainment wins. Whoever is the most 206 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: entertaining wins. So even if it's a car crash, people 207 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: won't be able to not look. They will come. And 208 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: I think people are kind of because the whole world 209 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: is a car crash. I think we are sort of 210 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: not looking. It's like enough already. I mean, if we 211 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,599 Speaker 1: learned anything from the mid terms, I mean that's the 212 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: mid terms, we learned that the American people don't like it. 213 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: They don't like Trump, they don't like carry like, they 214 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: don't want those people. You know. Yes, in Mississippi you 215 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: can a lack whoever you want as long as they're Republican, 216 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 1: but in most places it doesn't fly. So I mean, 217 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: I just wonder, like basically Elon's you know, move is 218 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: to double down on Trumpism, and I'm not sure that's 219 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: a winner. No, And it's it's odd and there's there's 220 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: like a confluence of events that are working against him, 221 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: you know. Musque and Teal were also part of this 222 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: sort of long termism idea that you can do whatever 223 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: ship you want now as long as you know it's 224 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: gonna make you money, you know, so that you can 225 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: you can pay a little bit of money to charity. 226 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: You know, that's their effective altruism thing. And it doesn't 227 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: matter what happens now as long as you're getting the 228 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: money and stuff you need for the rocket ships or 229 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: artificial intelligences or whatever it is. It everitor is in 230 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: the few. Sure, And when f t X the cryptocurrency 231 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: went down, it was kind of like, oh, wait a minute. 232 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: You know ft X is you know, run by Sam 233 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: bankmn Freed, this SPF guy, who's another one of them, right, 234 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: he's another one of the guys. But they are saying, well, 235 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: Sam is a Democrat and so it's different, but he 236 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: really is that same kind of idea, and isn't Ellen 237 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: heavily invested in crypto too? Of course, this was an exchange, 238 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: except instead of working like crypto was supposed to work, 239 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: where everybody kind of has wallets of their own stuff, 240 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: it was working like a bank. Right. It wasn't even 241 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: a brokerage house that was holding the crypto in people's accounts. 242 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: It was just taking people's money and then betting on 243 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: other stuff. You know, thirty two billion dollars disappear, and 244 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: and they were pretending they were like a robin hood figure. 245 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: They were pretending they were like Alan Musk, you know, 246 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: empowering the little guys with crypto against the big banks. 247 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: But but they basically were a big bang ache, you know. 248 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: And all you have to do when you have a 249 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: big bank that is built on nothing, which is what 250 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: they what they had, is undermine the trust in this 251 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: kind of socially constructed value pyramid and then it collapses 252 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: because there's nothing in them. Right. And this is where 253 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, and where the Democrats and the and the 254 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: crazies are kind of at odds. The Democrats use real money, right, 255 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: the government there's a difference. Well except for the Democratic 256 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: senator who got involved in this. We will save her 257 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: for another time. But yes, continue on. I guess what 258 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: I'm saying is crypto. And I understand crypto. Believe me. 259 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: People say doesn't understand. No, I understand crypto better than 260 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: they do. The difference between crypto and money, Yes, both 261 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: are Fiat invented currency. But you need to pay your 262 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: tax with money, and because you have to, it means 263 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: then that everyone has to convert in two dollars in 264 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: order to you what's real, which sorry, which is paying 265 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: your taxes, death and taxes are real. Right, So if 266 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: you have to pay your taxes with money but nothing else, 267 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: it means that in order to pay your taxes, at 268 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: some point you've got to take your poker chips and 269 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: go to that cashier's window and turn it into money. 270 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: Until then it's chips. If the casino goes out of business, 271 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: your chips are worthless. There's no window to go to write. 272 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: The crypto are like these sort of you know, match 273 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: sticks in a prison camp. They only work in the 274 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: camp on the poker table. Right. If you take the 275 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: poker chips and then go to the store, they will 276 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: not give you cigarettes, right, so you know you could. 277 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: The only reason you were at one point able to 278 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: pay for Tesla's with bitcoin. I don't know, I think 279 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: he allows that anymore, was because all that really meant 280 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: was that someone could buy a car without cashing in 281 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: their chips, likely because they're a drug lord or an 282 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: arms dealer, or want to launder their money by purchasing things. Right. 283 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: So the real story with FTX is that a journalist mentions, 284 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: you know, I don't think they're really capitalized. Wow, this 285 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be good, and then their competitor, Binance 286 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: are the ones that took them down. You know, they 287 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: basically pulled a Musk. Remember when Musk, you know it 288 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: was gonna buy Twitter and then he wasn't, and then 289 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: Twitter stock kind of crashed. That's what they did. What 290 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: finance did and said, oh, you know, we're gonna maybe 291 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: help FTX out or maybe we'll buy them. And then 292 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: they popped the hood and they go, oh my god, 293 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: this is terrible. Right, they knew what was going on, 294 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: and then they announced, oh, we can't invest in this. 295 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: And that's what crashed them, is that their competitors said, oh, 296 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: we're pulling out all our holdings. That is incredible. I know, 297 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: they took him down, right, they took him down. But 298 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: all of these guys, and this is this is the 299 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: part I think that makes us so sick that all 300 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: of them are part of this effective altruism movement, you know, 301 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: which is basically saying, do as much ship as you want, 302 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: you know now, as long as you pay to do 303 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: good things later. Right. But I Han is not part 304 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 1: of this effective altruism. Well, he's part of the long 305 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: termism movement. I mean he considers himself to be. But 306 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: I mean you don't see I mean he and he's 307 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: sort of trolled with the world hunger stuff, but he 308 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: never did it right. But he is a long termist. 309 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: He's a person who believes that the forty trillion post 310 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: human cyborgs out in the universe in the future matter 311 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: more than the eight billion people alive today, you know. 312 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 1: So he's in that same ends justifies the means quasi eugenic, 313 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: you know, vision quest that the other ones are on 314 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: ignore conditions on the ground, you know, get filthy rich 315 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: through whatever you have to to build a universe for 316 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: the post human robot people, you know. And it's all 317 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: that I'd gladly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today. 318 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: All right, So Doug, let's do a little prediction. You 319 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: have to get this right now. I promise not to 320 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: bring it up next time you come on. But I mean, 321 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: just like, pretend with me. Where do you think this goes? 322 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: I think it's all good. No, but I mean with Twitter, Like, 323 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: so Ellen now has he has all this debt, he's 324 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: bringing back Trump, He's trying to drive traffic. He thinks 325 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: traffic will save him. Will traffic save him? No? These 326 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: are ghettos. Look at Facebook is already like my space 327 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: right or friends stir? You know, no, this is over. 328 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: This is over. When Twitter was over. The minute that that, 329 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg went on TV and said Web three is 330 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: going to replace Web two, Web two was over. It's 331 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: a graveyard. So what do you do? You know now 332 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 1: he's basically staging demolition Derby's on there in order to 333 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: get some eyeballs, right, you know, it's if you're gonna 334 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: see you know, live snuff. God knows what they're going 335 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: to stream there to try to get the last views. 336 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: But no, there's no it's just gonna take more people 337 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: like us saying, you know, I actually have no I 338 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: have no reason to be there. You know I don't, 339 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: and that it's okay, you know, And that's the other thing. 340 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: A lot of people have got a podcast. I gotta 341 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,959 Speaker 1: stay on Twitter because otherwise, you know, no one's going 342 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: to find me on my discover ability in law and 343 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: you don't think so, I really don't, you know. And 344 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: also the discoverability on there, it favors discoverability of your 345 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: of your competitors rather than you. You know, it doesn't, 346 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't really, I don't know who it really it helps. 347 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: These are not long tail you know, decentralized things. I 348 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 1: think people are going to do better. Gosh, I mean, 349 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: where do people really spend their time now? You know 350 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 1: the kids, they're in discord servers. They're small communities. You know, 351 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: even Mastodon sort of does that better than a single 352 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: generic global platform. People are realizing it's just not that 353 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: much fun. You know, who knew who needs it. It's 354 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: so interesting. We have to cut you off because this 355 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: is the longest I'm ever allowed to go, and Jesse's 356 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: gonna have a total heart attack, but he likes you 357 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: so much that we've known the emperors had no clothes 358 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: for a super long time, and now they're like ripping 359 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: them off right in front of us there, non closed. 360 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: So interesting. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, 361 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: thank you. Michael Phenone is a January six Insurrection survivor 362 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: as well as author of Paulled the Line, The Insurrection, 363 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:23,959 Speaker 1: and One Cops Battle for America's Soul Welcome Too Fast Politics, Michael, 364 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: Thank you guys for having me on. So I want 365 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: to talk to you about your incredible arc in your life. 366 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 1: You were DC police officer. You know, how are you 367 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: feeling now? How recovered are you? I mean, like I 368 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: said earlier. I'm getting by and then I wish I had, uh, 369 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,959 Speaker 1: you know, more upbeat or positive response for you. But 370 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: I'm fortunate I recovered from the physical injuries I sustained 371 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: on January six. I've come to terms with that day, 372 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: and I'm proud of what I did and what hundreds 373 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: of other police officers did on January six one. But 374 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: you know, I'm still kind of circumnavigating my life after 375 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: that and trying to figure out, well, one, what the 376 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: hell am I going to do to earn a living? 377 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: Number Two? What the hell did I do all this for? Yeah, 378 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about that. So you're young, 379 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: you found yourself surrounded by these rioters, you were teased 380 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: so many times, you had a heart attack and beaten 381 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: with a Blue Lives matter of flag. If that isn't 382 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: like the peak of irony, I don't know what is. 383 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you must have like physical repercussions from this experience, right, 384 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: I mean as far as the injuries themselves, no, I 385 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 1: mean if you're talking about mental and psychological ours, yeah, absolutely. 386 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: I mean it was a horrifying event, and it's you know, 387 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: only exacerbated by the fact that the people responsible have 388 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: not been held accountable, and I don't see the Department 389 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 1: of Justice moving in that direction in a way that 390 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:07,199 Speaker 1: I feel is responsible or reasonable. Quite frankly. Yeah, So 391 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: let's talk about that. You know, you voted for A 392 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: Trump in two thousands sixteen, and you then were injured 393 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 1: by these people who wanted Trump to stay in power 394 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: even though he had lost the election. You've testified and 395 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: testified and testified and sort of put yourself on the 396 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: line to sort of be able to provide testimony, et cetera. 397 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: So I'm curious to know some of the lower level 398 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: people have been punished. I mean, the people that were 399 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: there that day that committed crimes on the Capitol grounds. 400 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: They've been indicted, arrested, Some have been tried and convicted. 401 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: Others have pled guilty. So yeah, within the four corners 402 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: of the event um that is the insurrection at the 403 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: Capital on January six there has been a limited amount 404 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: of accountability. That's not why testified before Congress, and that's 405 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: not why I've continued to speak out. It's to hold 406 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: those who orchestrated that event responsible. So let's talk about that. 407 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: Who who are those people? Listen, I've sat through every 408 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: single one of the Select Committee's hearings, and at the beginning, 409 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 1: even on January seven, I would have told you that 410 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: I felt Donald Trump was morally and ethically responsible for 411 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: the events at the Capitol on January six. Having heard 412 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: the evidence as presented by the Select Committee as a 413 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: result of their thorough investigation, it was clear to me 414 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 1: that Donald Trump and his allies bear criminal culpability. They 415 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: engaged in an effort to defraud the American people. Their 416 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: intention was to call the election fixed and a hoax 417 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: long before the first ballot was ever cast. And that 418 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: effort to defraud the American people, in conjunction with some 419 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: of his allies, namely Roger Stone, and his coordination with 420 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: members of the Proud Boys, Oathkeepers, and Three per Centers, 421 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: also showed me that part of that plot was to 422 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: engage in violence on January six to disrupt Congress's certification 423 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: of the electoral votes. It is sort of interesting. I 424 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,479 Speaker 1: think a lot of us are hoping that the d 425 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: j will act, you know, will indict that sort of 426 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: higher you know, the people that are sort of higher 427 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: level who helped organize I mean, do you think they 428 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: will know? And I get a lot of criticism when 429 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: I come out and say that I think that Merrick 430 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: Garland needs to grow a pair and pursue justice in 431 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 1: this case. But I think a lot of people forget 432 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: I was a cop for twenty years and I worked 433 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: in the District of Columbia. I was a street cop. 434 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: I worked in narcotics. The prosecutors who prosecute crimes in Washington, 435 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: d C. Are the Department of Justice. The United States 436 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: Attorney's Office is our community prosecutors. For lack of a 437 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: better term. I'm well versed in the way things work 438 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: within the United States Attorneys off US, and I know 439 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: how political things are in the upper echelons of that agency, 440 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 1: just like any other government bureaucracy. And I think that now, 441 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: even more than ever, there's less likelihood of Donald Trump 442 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 1: being prosecuted criminally because I think that many people feel 443 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: as though Donald Trump has already suffered political persecution in 444 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: that the mid term elections were a rebuke of his 445 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: brand of politics, and so you know, rather than risk 446 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 1: a divisive trial of a former president of the United States, 447 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: they'll simply put it in the rear view mirror, just 448 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: like the American people put the officers of January six 449 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: in the rear view mirror. Explain to us why you 450 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: think that's bad. Why what's bad? Put by I mean, 451 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: I agree with you, but like why this put this? 452 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: Putting it in the rear view mirror and not prosecuting 453 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: Trump is why it's bad. What are the sort of 454 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: larger implication I mean, aside from the fact that it 455 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: was one of the most outrageous and embarrassing moments in 456 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: our history as a country, it is bad because it 457 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 1: sets an unbelievable precedent that a president sitting president can 458 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: engage in criminal activity at a large scale involving multiple 459 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: levels of the government, and that that criminal conspiracy can 460 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: come to fruition in the form of, you know, a 461 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: great deal of violence directed at members of our government, 462 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: and that he can walk away unscathed. Yeah, I want 463 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: to sort of get back to like your experience. So, 464 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: I mean I think of like all the people I've 465 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: known who have had these experiences where they've had like 466 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: normal lives and then Trumpism has come in and really 467 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: made them like an inadvertent celebrity, right, Like, there are 468 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: a lot of people like that, from the vin Men's 469 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: to how is that for you? And what is it like? 470 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: And do you sort of wish that you had never 471 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: had this happened to you? I mean, I struggle with 472 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: that all the time, but I don't have any regrets 473 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: because I can't imagine myself knowing me doing things any 474 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: other way. I regret the way that what I have 475 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: said was received. I began speaking out in the aftermath 476 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: of January six for one reason, and that was to 477 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: advocate for the officers who I fought alongside of. I 478 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: believe that they deserved recognition for their actions, and I 479 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: wanted a true accounting for what happened and what officers 480 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: experience was like that day. Unfortunately, in doing so, I've 481 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 1: managed to alienate the greater law enforcement community, including many 482 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: of my friends and former colleagues within my own department. 483 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: Than along came the Republican Party and their attempts to downplay, whitewash, dismiss, 484 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: or just simply lie about the reality of January six, 485 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: And so I felt I was uniquely positioned in the 486 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: fact that I had the experience that I had that day, 487 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 1: and that it was all captured on bodyboarn camera footage, 488 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: and so I felt like I had a unique opportunity 489 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: to counteract that messaging, which was quite frankly hurtful to 490 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: a lot of police officers in ways that Americans have 491 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: yet to fully comprehend and understand. Can you say more 492 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: about that? I mean, there's a lot of police officers 493 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: from January six who are struggling with the reality that 494 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: they could do something like that, participates in something like that, 495 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: and then be vilified by half the country for doing 496 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: nothing other than their job, and then have it play 497 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: out day in and day out in American politics. If 498 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: you thought police officers were jaded and cynical before January six, 499 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: you can't even imagine what that does to someone who 500 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: dedicates their life to public service for not a whole 501 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: hell of a lot of pay and certainly not a 502 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: lot of thanks or gratitude. In the aftermath of that, 503 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: I've spent a lot of time talking about indifference within 504 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: the law enforcement community and what we can do to 505 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: avoid those pitfalls. Well acknowledging officers when they do things 506 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: well and exceptionally well would do a great deal to 507 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: combat the indifference that Americans have instilled within the law 508 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: enforcement community. There were police officers who killed themselves after 509 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: January sex. Yes, and some of them were my friends. 510 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: They are ultimately casualties of January sex. They are. It's disgusting, 511 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: absolutely disgusting to see the way that people have characterized 512 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: the officers from January six and the officers who took 513 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: their own lives as somehow being weak or incapable of 514 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: handling the job or the difficult teas of the job. 515 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: You know, that's not said about the hundreds of thousands 516 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: of members of our military who take their own lives. 517 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: And you know it hasn't been said about law enforcement 518 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: officers in the past. But the way that police officers 519 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: have responded to the capital have had to endure this 520 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: um level of ingratitude and uh, really disgraceful reaction from 521 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: people in this country. It makes me sick to my stomach. 522 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: You have been a victim of a crime, right, You've 523 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: been in law enforcement, You've testified, so you've been on 524 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: a lot of the different sides of something like this. 525 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: So I'm curious, like, what do you think that the 526 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: government could do. I mean, what we really want, ultimately 527 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: is for something like January six to never ever happen again. 528 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: But but what do you think the government, what would 529 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: you like the government to do. I want to see 530 00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: a criminal investigation into the orchestrators of the jay where 531 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: a sixth insurrection. I think it's time that Donald Trump 532 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: was named a target of that investigation. I think there's 533 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: clear and convincing evidence to support that. I think that 534 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: it's important that his allies and sycophants, individuals that engaged 535 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: in pushing the lies about the election also be investigated. 536 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: In addition to that, I think that it is important 537 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: that the legislative efforts of the Select Committee make their 538 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: way through Congress and be passed into law. You know, 539 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: they have all stalled, and so the Select Committee's sole purpose, 540 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: at least officially, was to ensure that the insurrection could 541 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: not happen again, and we can't even get Congress to 542 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: pass that into law. I think that the officers of 543 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: January six need to be recognized in a grand fashion 544 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: that's befitting of the sacrifices that they made that day 545 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: and many continue to make by upholding their oath to 546 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: the Constitution on a day when so many disgraced it. Yeah, 547 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that you had to go through this, 548 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: and I'm so sorry that things are not moving the 549 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: way they probably should. Yeah, it's just a sad time 550 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: for for this country, and I mean unfortunately the midterm elections. 551 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: While I think the media and many in the Democratic 552 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: Party and Republican Party have tried to spin it in 553 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: a positive light that you know, democracy one, democracy was 554 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: on the ballot. Well, yeah, democracy was on the ballot 555 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: I think, and maybe in some races, but in a 556 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: lot of them, democracy one by point one percent of 557 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: the vote, which is a horrifying thought. Yeah, exactly right. 558 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. I hope you'll 559 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: come back, yes man, thank you for having me. That's 560 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, 561 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: Wednesday and Day to your the best minds in politics 562 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what 563 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep 564 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening. H