Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Okay f Daily would
Speaker 1: meet your girl, Danielle Moody recording from the Brooklyn Bunker.
Speaker 1: You know, I am really tired of folks like Bill Maher,
Speaker 1: like Barry Weiss, like Joe Rogan, and many many others
Speaker 1: who have these huge media platforms, millions, hundreds of millions,
Speaker 1: tens of millions of people following, watching, retweeting, sharing the
Speaker 1: shit that these people say, when in fact, they have
Speaker 1: absolutely no care or thought to how their words are
Speaker 1: affecting or infecting our toxic political climate. So, for instance,
Speaker 1: Bill Maher went on his show as well as onto
Speaker 1: the view, lamenting about how exhausted he is from COVID,
Speaker 1: how it just needs to be done. Barry Weiss talked
Speaker 1: about how, you know, clearly the vaccines. You know, they
Speaker 1: told us that we were just going to be able
Speaker 1: to go back to normal once we got them, and
Speaker 1: that's not the case. So you know, fuck it, I'm
Speaker 1: done with COVID or you know, Joe Rogan and his bullshit. Right,
Speaker 1: and you have folks, I guess one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: or some odd doctors, medical professionals, nurses have all signed
Speaker 1: on to a letter sending to Spotify, which is the
Speaker 1: host of the platform host for Joe Rogan Show, to say,
Speaker 1: we're not telling you to take him off the air,
Speaker 1: but we are saying, is what are you doing right
Speaker 1: to combat this misinformation? Like what kind of warnings can
Speaker 1: you produce before his show or after his show or
Speaker 1: book end to make sure that their people can go
Speaker 1: to an actual professional and actual medical expert to get
Speaker 1: their medical advice from as opposed to this man, I
Speaker 1: cannot believe, you know, it always pisses me off. And initially, folks,
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I thought that it was just like jealousy, right,
Speaker 1: like what is it that these people are doing? Why
Speaker 1: they command so much attention and have so many followers,
Speaker 1: and you know, what is it that I need to
Speaker 1: do in order to get to that space? Because for me,
Speaker 1: building a platform and building up a following has never
Speaker 1: been a sadly right because I guess I'm just not
Speaker 1: motivated by capitalism. Has never been about making the most money.
Speaker 1: There are plenty of things that I can do that
Speaker 1: wouldn't be this right, but it has always been about
Speaker 1: the fact that I believe that I want people to
Speaker 1: be as informed as possible. Want folks to make informed decisions.
Speaker 1: I want an informed and activated citizenury. But then there
Speaker 1: are other people that get into this work under the
Speaker 1: guise of politics or under the guise of having a
Speaker 1: you know, adding to the public discourse, but that they're
Speaker 1: truly just about entertainment and dollars, right. And maybe it's
Speaker 1: because I've never had the access to that kind of
Speaker 1: platform or dollars that I'm not driven by that. But
Speaker 1: there must be some responsibility, some accountability right for people
Speaker 1: who do have that kind of access and abuse it.
Speaker 1: You know, I watched it, and if you haven't seen it,
Speaker 1: you should, And it was sent to me by one
Speaker 1: of my followers, the clip of Barry Weiss on the
Speaker 1: Bill Mars Show, you know, and I just was so
Speaker 1: fucking pissed off when I was watching it. And you know,
Speaker 1: I get it, folks, and Jonathan and I will talk
Speaker 1: about this later in the show. I get it. I'm
Speaker 1: fucking tired. I just said to a friend, I like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to cook anymore. But I have been
Speaker 1: staying home because I decided that until you know, New York,
Speaker 1: until New York City was in a more stabilized place
Speaker 1: where I felt comfortable. I wasn't getting on public transportation.
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to dine indoors, and I wasn't going
Speaker 1: to you know, go into situations and places that required
Speaker 1: me to take my mask off or be around a
Speaker 1: lot of people. That is unnecessary. Right, So for me,
Speaker 1: it's I have access to a wonderful studio, but until
Speaker 1: I feel safe taking the train every single day with
Speaker 1: you know a bunch of strangers who you do not
Speaker 1: know what their protocol is. It's mandatory in New York
Speaker 1: to wear a mask on public transit, but most people,
Speaker 1: at least the last time that I was taking the train,
Speaker 1: which was well over a month and a half ago,
Speaker 1: people were abiding by that. But then you have those
Speaker 1: folks that either don't wear a mask at all or
Speaker 1: wear it as a chin strap still, right, So taking
Speaker 1: having the privilege and ability to move myself out of
Speaker 1: these spaces, you know, is not without its frustrations. You Know,
Speaker 1: there are days when I wake up and I feel
Speaker 1: like we should just have a dedicated hour of every
Speaker 1: single day where we are free to go into the
Speaker 1: street or into your backyard and just fucking scream, right like,
Speaker 1: just get it out, just you know, go out. Everyone's
Speaker 1: doing it at the same time every day at you know,
Speaker 1: at six thirty six thirty wherever the fuck you are,
Speaker 1: six thirty Eastern time because I'm Eastern standard bias. You
Speaker 1: go out and you can just scream. No one's going
Speaker 1: to call the cops, no one's going to look at
Speaker 1: you crazy. It's just like blowing off the steam of
Speaker 1: what it's like to consistently, now two years be living
Speaker 1: in this pandemic where you have people who I want
Speaker 1: to say a majority of which, but I don't think
Speaker 1: it's a majority. I think it's like half are dedicated
Speaker 1: to continuing to do the right thing for themselves and
Speaker 1: for their communities, right, And then you have other people
Speaker 1: that just like Bill Marberry, Wise, Joe Rogan and others
Speaker 1: that just don't give a fuck. Right, because those people
Speaker 1: that are immune, have immune disorders or are they have
Speaker 1: immune systems that are suppressed. Guess what, they don't get
Speaker 1: to throw up their hands and say, oh, well, I'm
Speaker 1: done with COVID because the minute that they are not
Speaker 1: protecting themselves, they're dead. Right, and there are more people
Speaker 1: that are immuno compromised in this country, then you can
Speaker 1: fucking wrap your minds around for various reasons, whether it
Speaker 1: is you know, diabetes, obesity, you know, cancer survivor because
Speaker 1: cancer cancer is rampant, right, hiv age like whatever it is.
Speaker 1: There are so many people that are compromised in some
Speaker 1: way or other. So just to say oh, I'm done,
Speaker 1: you think that the virus then says, oh, okay, well
Speaker 1: that person over there is finished, so I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: infect them. I'm going to go to the other person
Speaker 1: down the street. Like that's not how it fucking works.
Speaker 1: And you know, Frankly, my friend and co host on
Speaker 1: Democracy Is said it best in Twitter earlier in the
Speaker 1: week where he was just like, you know, we need
Speaker 1: to also stop referring to these people who act out
Speaker 1: in the most ridiculous and stupid fucking ways as children,
Speaker 1: because he's like, I'm the father of three kids, right
Speaker 1: that are like seven and under, and they wear their masks.
Speaker 1: They don't complain about not being able to play with
Speaker 1: their friends, they don't complain about having to wear a
Speaker 1: mask all day. That they know that they're doing the
Speaker 1: right thing right and so they're able to handle and
Speaker 1: adapt and be more nimble to this shift, this change
Speaker 1: in our societal gatherings in way of being than adults are.
Speaker 1: So like, let's not insult children who genuinely do and
Speaker 1: generally do follow the rules that are put out in
Speaker 1: front of them and say that these adults that can't
Speaker 1: be bothered to do so are acting like children, because
Speaker 1: that's an insult to them. I'm just like, you know,
Speaker 1: even still listening to medical professionals, whether it be on
Speaker 1: TikTok or on cable news, say that people are still
Speaker 1: on their fucking deathbeds refusing ventilators because they were told
Speaker 1: by the likes of somebody who has no fucking MD
Speaker 1: behind their name, right that, or no degree in epidemiology.
Speaker 1: Because let us also be clear that Fox News has
Speaker 1: on a lots of doctors, right, none of them are
Speaker 1: actually virologists, right or epidemiologists. No, they're not. It's like
Speaker 1: going to your dentist and asking them about your heart,
Speaker 1: right Like, that's what it is that they do. And
Speaker 1: so for me right now, it is just the level
Speaker 1: of frustration that I have that I realize that these people.
Speaker 1: I wish that we lived in a country that was
Speaker 1: actually about accountability, that we were going to begin to
Speaker 1: do what other nations are doing which is issuing fines. Right,
Speaker 1: that if you are caught spreading misinformation, that no, it
Speaker 1: isn't just going to be that your band from YouTube
Speaker 1: or Twitter or Facebook, right, or your Instagram account is
Speaker 1: shut down for twenty four hours to give you another
Speaker 1: twenty four hours to come up with a different way
Speaker 1: to spread your bullshit. Right, but that your state or
Speaker 1: the federal fucking government was going to start instituting fines
Speaker 1: against you. And I'm not talking about little fines. I'm
Speaker 1: talking about every time that you pose an infraction, that
Speaker 1: we deem these people as a threat right to national security,
Speaker 1: because you see, this misinformation is an assault on our bill,
Speaker 1: on our public health, and our public health should be
Speaker 1: tied to our security, right, because the more people that
Speaker 1: are fucking ill that can't go and teach in a classroom,
Speaker 1: that can't go be flight attendants on the plane that
Speaker 1: can't go pick up your packages and deliver them to
Speaker 1: your home from the factories. The chain right of command
Speaker 1: and supply and production is fucked right now because of this.
Speaker 1: And so you want to talk about these people saying, well,
Speaker 1: we need to, you know, do what's right for the economy. Well,
Speaker 1: what's right for the economy is to ensure that those
Speaker 1: that are working are actually fucking healthy. And if you
Speaker 1: are actively thwarting that, whether it is through a podcast
Speaker 1: and op ed through TikTok's or whatever, you're going to
Speaker 1: be fucking fined. You know, I don't know what state,
Speaker 1: what country it is right now, and so forgive me,
Speaker 1: but I will look it up. But what they have
Speaker 1: done is made it so that folks that are I
Speaker 1: believe it is sixty and above, that for every month
Speaker 1: that you do not get the vaccination or the booster shot,
Speaker 1: you're going to be fined. I think it was something
Speaker 1: like two hundred and fifty or you know, maybe even
Speaker 1: upwards of five hundred dollars, right, And I'm just like, damn,
Speaker 1: imagine how many people would just fucking stop if your
Speaker 1: accounts are being flagged, your shows are being flagged with
Speaker 1: major penalties. And I'm not talking for the Joe Rogans
Speaker 1: of the world that are multimillionaires that are like, oh,
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars and they're like, oh, I don't give
Speaker 1: a fuck, or the Marjorie Tailor Greens of the world
Speaker 1: who were getting thousands of dollars of fines on the
Speaker 1: house floor for not following House rules in terms of
Speaker 1: wearing a fucking mask. I'm saying that for people who
Speaker 1: are uber wealthy, hit them majorly. But the everyday person
Speaker 1: right where still in America, a four hundred dollars bill
Speaker 1: can come up that seventy five percent of the population
Speaker 1: can't actually fucking pay. Imagine if you then were being
Speaker 1: hit with four hundred dollars bills every single month or week,
Speaker 1: or every time that you opened your fucking mouth, right,
Speaker 1: what would happen? Imagine how quickly we could nip this
Speaker 1: issue of misinformation in the butt, right, But again, we
Speaker 1: don't do that here, right, because America is afraid of
Speaker 1: the fringe. Right, They're afraid of the twenty five percent,
Speaker 1: and the twenty five percent fucking know it, right and
Speaker 1: are using and honing that fear capitalizing on it because
Speaker 1: they know anti shit going to happen to them, so
Speaker 1: they continue keeping on, to keep on, and I'm saying,
Speaker 1: start to hit people where it fucking hurts, right, Like
Speaker 1: these are the same people who are either spreading misinformation
Speaker 1: on their own pages and their own platforms, right, and
Speaker 1: yet they were collecting the COVID relief money, right Like
Speaker 1: this is like the fuck shit that we live in.
Speaker 1: We're on one hand, you have no problem collecting the
Speaker 1: fun and money right that this administration is putting out,
Speaker 1: but like you should have had to show proof of
Speaker 1: vaccination in order to get that fucking money. Do you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying? Like we need to have if
Speaker 1: we're going to use the carrot and the stick, if
Speaker 1: we're going to say like, oh, well you get a
Speaker 1: free beer with the shot, well, then here's the thing.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't have been able to get access to federal
Speaker 1: moneies unless you actually were able to show proof a
Speaker 1: vaccination for yourself and whoever else is eligible in your household. Right,
Speaker 1: Like we need to start actually tying real life consequences,
Speaker 1: because death clearly is not a motivator, right Like the
Speaker 1: possibility of dying, of not being able to get to
Speaker 1: a hospital or being turned away because there aren't enough
Speaker 1: beds clearly is not a deterrent for people still refusing
Speaker 1: to get vaccinated. And frankly, I think it was put
Speaker 1: up on CNN yesterday that there are still sixty one
Speaker 1: million Americans that refuse to get vaccinated, and there are
Speaker 1: over eighty million Americans that still haven't received their second shot,
Speaker 1: like haven't gone back to go get it. So I'm like, folks,
Speaker 1: what the fuck, right, where are the penalties? Like we
Speaker 1: need to stop just looking for the rewards, right, like oh,
Speaker 1: you get one hundred dollars, so, oh you get an
Speaker 1: Apple gift card, and start looking into what are the
Speaker 1: actual penalties for bad behavior? Because I would have loved
Speaker 1: to see, you know, Bill Maher and his entire show
Speaker 1: and fucking HBO find right for the missation, the misinformation
Speaker 1: and lies that the show told and say so we're
Speaker 1: going to make an example out of you. And now
Speaker 1: these shows that continue to promote false information are going
Speaker 1: to be charged like ten thousand dollars a minute for
Speaker 1: every fucking minute that that show is on the air.
Speaker 1: Like this is the kind of punishments that we need
Speaker 1: to be looking at in order to get to the
Speaker 1: point where eighty percent of the country is vaccinated. Because
Speaker 1: here's the thing, folks, I don't really give a fuck
Speaker 1: about what the optimism that folks are having around the
Speaker 1: fact that so many people have been affected with omicron
Speaker 1: that maybe this is the end of the pandemic. We
Speaker 1: don't know what the fuck. We don't know. We barely
Speaker 1: know what the fuck we do know? Okay, we are
Speaker 1: learning all of this in real time. So for those
Speaker 1: reporters and folks out there that keep asking stupid fucking
Speaker 1: questions like are we there yet right when we don't
Speaker 1: even know what portion of the trip we're on, the beginning,
Speaker 1: the middle, or the fucking end, it's a stupid question
Speaker 1: to ask because it is more likely that if you've
Speaker 1: been paying attention over the last two years, that there
Speaker 1: will be another fucking variant. And so the questions that
Speaker 1: should be asking is how do we prepare for the inevitable.
Speaker 1: We'll worry about the end when the end actually proves
Speaker 1: itself to be here when we go six seven, eight
Speaker 1: months a year right without following a fucking ticker on
Speaker 1: cable news that is telling us how many people are
Speaker 1: dying a day from a virus that twenty five percent
Speaker 1: of the population still doesn't fucking believe exists. I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm just so tired and so frustrated. And you will
Speaker 1: hear it in my conversation coming up with Jonathan, because
Speaker 1: it's been two years of this conversation, two years of
Speaker 1: the same shit, different day, and it's like, I just
Speaker 1: keep thinking about how this was able to happen right
Speaker 1: about how there were no mitigation efforts around the misinformation
Speaker 1: campaign that was run in twenty sixteen on Hillary Clinton,
Speaker 1: on the election, on anything, and so they're just going
Speaker 1: to be able to take this model and adapt it
Speaker 1: to any issue and anything that they want. They've done
Speaker 1: it with critical race theory, they are now doing it
Speaker 1: with don't say gay, They've done it with abortion. Like
Speaker 1: it's just going to keep going and they're going to
Speaker 1: keep winning, and we're all going to be sitting around
Speaker 1: with our fucking hands up, looking up in the air, saying,
Speaker 1: I wonder how this is happening. The question that I
Speaker 1: have is like, when is there going to be a
Speaker 1: campaign that is working on our side? Right? When are
Speaker 1: we going to see the tools and the tactics that
Speaker 1: the radical rabid right has been using a apted for good?
Speaker 1: Like where the fuck are those people? Where is that platform?
Speaker 1: Where is that pipeline? You know, I had a call
Speaker 1: today and I have to say this that you know,
Speaker 1: I work in a variety of different spaces, and you know,
Speaker 1: for for well over a decade, I have worked in
Speaker 1: movement politics and with think tanks and various media outlets
Speaker 1: on what it means to secure our democracy and expand it, right,
Speaker 1: what it means to create a multiracial democracy. Right that is,
Speaker 1: expands upon the origination of the founding fathers and moves
Speaker 1: into a space of actual equity. And I got to
Speaker 1: tell you that in the conversation we came to the
Speaker 1: conclusion that the next several decades, not couple of years,
Speaker 1: not couple of months, but the next several decades in
Speaker 1: America are going to be like nothing we've ever seen before.
Speaker 1: They are going to be some of the darkest, most
Speaker 1: dangerous times. I cannot stress that enough. And many can
Speaker 1: think that I'm being hyperbolic. Oh where's your proof in that,
Speaker 1: I'm like, open your fucking eyes. Republicans will no doubt
Speaker 1: win midterms. Our government will no doubt grind to a halt.
Speaker 1: They will have all the machinations in place in order
Speaker 1: to make sure that the twenty twenty four presidential election
Speaker 1: is anything but free or fair. Voter suppression, targeting of
Speaker 1: marginalized communities and those that live at the intersection of
Speaker 1: many of those communities will continue to happen. You will
Speaker 1: see political opponents be slapped with lawsuits and be thrown
Speaker 1: in jail. You will see academics targeted like we are
Speaker 1: seeing with scientists and doctors and nurses and medical professionals. Now,
Speaker 1: things will get much much worse. And if we are
Speaker 1: not planning for what that looks like recognizing that there
Speaker 1: isn't a way to stop this train as an individual
Speaker 1: from going off the tracks, from falling over the cliff, right,
Speaker 1: there isn't. There is only collective action. But we are
Speaker 1: not a part of a party that has a backbone
Speaker 1: that has a warrior not only warrior spirit, but an
Speaker 1: actual strategic war plan about how we succeed. So if
Speaker 1: that is the case, then what are we doing to
Speaker 1: protect ourselves now in the best possible way that we can? Right?
Speaker 1: And I don't think that we're having those conversations out
Speaker 1: loud enough because we're too afraid of being called crazy,
Speaker 1: a being called hyperbolic, a being called chicken little, Oh
Speaker 1: the sky is falling where they would rather right on
Speaker 1: the television behind me, make little jokes and small talk
Speaker 1: about politics and oh everybody and both sides and this
Speaker 1: that and the other thing, much in the same way
Speaker 1: that the you know, the morning show talk hosts did
Speaker 1: in the in the film, don't look up. Leonardo Dicapri said,
Speaker 1: Everything doesn't need to be so fucking cheery. Everything doesn't
Speaker 1: need to be, you know, a joke or a giggle
Speaker 1: or light. What we are dealing with is existential. It's
Speaker 1: an existential crisis that this country is in. And so
Speaker 1: if we're not willing to say the scary parts out loud,
Speaker 1: then we're not really willing to tackle the problem, are we.
Speaker 1: I wrote a piece that is up on Zora magazine
Speaker 1: right now, the property under medium that you can check out.
Speaker 1: I've tweeted it out and I'll continue to tweet and
Speaker 1: share it across social media. But it's the theme is
Speaker 1: what does it mean to be an American now? To
Speaker 1: be an American right now? When we have no shared values,
Speaker 1: we have no shared path right. Half of the country
Speaker 1: doesn't believe in truth factor science, right. The other half
Speaker 1: of the country believes that these people will come around,
Speaker 1: you know, at some point, who are we right when
Speaker 1: we say that we are American? And like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I'm an American? What the fuck does that actually mean
Speaker 1: right now? In this climate? And so I pose that
Speaker 1: question to all of you today on today's episode and
Speaker 1: answer me in the comments section or hit me up
Speaker 1: on Twitter or on Instagram. What does it mean to
Speaker 1: be an American to you right now? What does that mean?
Speaker 1: And you know, has it shifted, has it changed? And
Speaker 1: what does that look like? So I'd love to hear
Speaker 1: from all of you in the comments section or on
Speaker 1: social media with the hashtag hashtag woke af Coming up
Speaker 1: next is my conversation with our in house doctor, doctor
Speaker 1: Jonathan Metzel, who is reporting live from Tennessee, where he
Speaker 1: is back in the midst of what he says feels
Speaker 1: absolutely crazy. He's like, there's just COVID everywhere. So that
Speaker 1: conversation is coming up next. Folks. You know that if
Speaker 1: it is Wednesday, we are in the doctor's office with
Speaker 1: our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, to bring you
Speaker 1: the latest in COVID nineteen. Jonathan, you are now back
Speaker 1: at Vanderbilt University in Tennessee. How are you doing. It's
Speaker 1: an interesting time here. I would just tell you that
Speaker 1: there is a lot of COVID. A lot of people
Speaker 1: don't think it's COVID. They think their pandemic is over,
Speaker 1: but they're getting quite ill. So it's it's intense time.
Speaker 1: We're trying to basically rent a college in the middle
Speaker 1: of a pandemic, like many schools are, and it's definitely
Speaker 1: a challenge. I mean, you can't just ignore it. People
Speaker 1: think you can just ignore it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1: You know, We've got some people are doing great, some
Speaker 1: people are sick, and we're just trying to balance it
Speaker 1: as best we can. So it's it's challenging, but so far,
Speaker 1: so good. You know. I don't know if you've seen
Speaker 1: the clip that has gone around of Barry Weiss and
Speaker 1: Bill there Bill Maher on his show, but essentially and
Speaker 1: Bill Maher also just got pushed back from Whoopie Goldberg
Speaker 1: about making jokes about COVID and saying, you know, we're
Speaker 1: just all over it. The vaccines clearly don't work, and
Speaker 1: everybody is over it. And this was his refrain that
Speaker 1: he keeps saying with millions and millions of followers, what
Speaker 1: do you say to that to these people who are
Speaker 1: either you know where you are located right now that
Speaker 1: think that if you ignore something it goes away, or
Speaker 1: feel like we're in a position when we are knocking
Speaker 1: on a million people's door of deaths in this country.
Speaker 1: So when they say I'm over it and it's done,
Speaker 1: and we're exhausted and let's just throw our hands up.
Speaker 1: What's your response to that? Well, confidentially, I'm going to
Speaker 1: read a text exchange I had with one of my
Speaker 1: fellow professors. Okay, well, it can't be confidential if it's
Speaker 1: on the show. No, no, no names. Okay, I'm saying,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to divulge who they are. Okay. My
Speaker 1: colleague said, Hi, there, I have a few students at
Speaker 1: this point who are isolating because of COVID and are
Speaker 1: quite symptomatic. What is the strategy? So we talked back
Speaker 1: and forth and I said, you know, make sure they
Speaker 1: stay home zoom if they can, because they're actually quite sick.
Speaker 1: And she said, yeah. All the students had COVID before
Speaker 1: and on our vaxed and boosted and are now sicker
Speaker 1: than they were before, and they're freaking out and I'm
Speaker 1: freaking out. Meanwhile, in the past week, my youngest child
Speaker 1: has been identified as a close contact and my husband
Speaker 1: had to be tested because he was a close contact.
Speaker 1: The school can't handle it, and staff are starting to
Speaker 1: call in sick and they don't have enough teachers. So
Speaker 1: I don't know how you that's just one thing. Like
Speaker 1: we've got students who are vaccinated, boostered and have had
Speaker 1: COVID and are now quite sick, and schools that can't
Speaker 1: run even if they're in Tennessee where, you know, whatever,
Speaker 1: because they can't get teachers because the teachers are sick.
Speaker 1: So Bill Mark and I can ignore that, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe Bill Maher wants to come teach the class because
Speaker 1: but it's having some very real I mean, you know, again,
Speaker 1: we can put our own narrative on it, but when
Speaker 1: people are really sick and they can't work, that actually
Speaker 1: impacts things. So you know, it's just it's like, on
Speaker 1: one hand, you want to say, yeah, we get it right,
Speaker 1: Like you're not the only person that's over it. You're
Speaker 1: not the only person that wishes and hopes that we
Speaker 1: can go back to quote unquote normal. But it's been
Speaker 1: two years. We know that that's not happening. We know
Speaker 1: that the mitigation methods that have been put in place,
Speaker 1: from the vaccines to the boosters, two wearing masks, two
Speaker 1: remote you know, remote operations, if in fact you can
Speaker 1: do so like is working. So I'm just you know,
Speaker 1: at this point, Jonathan, where we are two years in right,
Speaker 1: and you I just recently listened to Faucia as of
Speaker 1: course everybody has where they are saying that they believe
Speaker 1: amicron has reached its peak, right at least in the
Speaker 1: in the cities where it started, like in New York
Speaker 1: where where I am, In the cities where it started
Speaker 1: and came out aggressively, it has peaked, and it's on
Speaker 1: the decline and the numbers are dropping. Many are saying
Speaker 1: that is this the end of the pandemic? Do you
Speaker 1: even think that we're in a position to be having
Speaker 1: that conversation, being as how this is the third major
Speaker 1: variant since twenty twenty. We have no idea. That's the
Speaker 1: terrified thing. We have no idea, Like we can put
Speaker 1: our narrative on top of this. As much as we
Speaker 1: have no idea what's happening, we have no idea what
Speaker 1: it's going to be like in a year. I certainly
Speaker 1: think that having a variant that gave a lot of
Speaker 1: people exposure to the virus that was non that was
Speaker 1: largely non lethal for people who were vaccinated, that was
Speaker 1: probably not the worst thing in the world to happen.
Speaker 1: But we have no idea there could be a new
Speaker 1: you know, velasco raptor a new Terrontosaurus rexam maximus or
Speaker 1: something like that, Like we have no idea what's coming,
Speaker 1: and so it's kind of like again, cavemen are like, man,
Speaker 1: we've been dealing with dinosaurs for fifty years. Now enough dinosaurs.
Speaker 1: We're going to go outside and we're just gonna have
Speaker 1: a picnic or something like that. It's great to it's great. Good, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's great if you say that. But t Rex doesn't
Speaker 1: care or he just wants to eat people, and so
Speaker 1: that's the same thing. Like at this point, having a
Speaker 1: little humility is better. I mean, no disrespect to Bill Maher.
Speaker 1: If he can stop the virus from mutating, I'm all
Speaker 1: for it. You know, what is really troubling to me
Speaker 1: is one that I know that Bill Maher and Barry
Speaker 1: Weiss that their comments are pervasive, right, And it's this
Speaker 1: kind of negligence and dismissiveness about the virus that I
Speaker 1: think is just as dangerous as the virus itself. But
Speaker 1: what is troubling me, Jonathan, is that latest polls, I
Speaker 1: think it was NBC News poll this week, say that
Speaker 1: of Americans no longer trust the CDC, right, that their
Speaker 1: feelings with regard to what the CDC is saying around
Speaker 1: COVID and what they should be doing. They no longer trust.
Speaker 1: What do you make of that? And how this administration
Speaker 1: needs to be tackling the trust and transparency issue That
Speaker 1: the CDC, even after Trump was gone, has messed up themselves, right,
Speaker 1: like has put their own foot in their mouth. It's
Speaker 1: not even about having an administration that was lying on
Speaker 1: them that they have had significant missteps that have caused
Speaker 1: this decline in trust. Well, I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: for sure. I would guess that the CDC was great
Speaker 1: at I mean, first of all, the CDC was undermined.
Speaker 1: We kind of took it for granted for a long time.
Speaker 1: But the CDC was not great at the challenge we're
Speaker 1: facing now, which is an evolving, continually changing threat where
Speaker 1: scientific consensus is fleeting and the knowledge is really it's
Speaker 1: almost like a real time kind of deal where there's
Speaker 1: a new variant, there's a new thing. And so I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that countries that have mobilized a strong public
Speaker 1: health infrastructure, you know politics aside. I read the Israeli
Speaker 1: newspaper every single morning because I figure, you know, they
Speaker 1: have a functioning thing I read a lot of the
Speaker 1: European countries, you know, even New Zealand now, how they're
Speaker 1: dealing with it. Everybody's dealing with the same problem. But
Speaker 1: if you have a kind of vibrant, functioning public health infrastructure.
Speaker 1: I thought that the head of the CDC we made
Speaker 1: a really good point the other day, which is our
Speaker 1: public health infrastructure is not set up to face the
Speaker 1: challenge we're having right now. So the CDC themselves are
Speaker 1: admitting it. You know, doctor Lenski basically just said, you know, absolutely,
Speaker 1: we need to change the way that we get knowledge
Speaker 1: out We needed the way. We need to change the
Speaker 1: way we get data. So it's not like there's some mystery.
Speaker 1: They recognize that. Also, it's just that, you know, again
Speaker 1: like if we're dealing with like polio and smallpox diseases
Speaker 1: that we thought we had overcome but some people want
Speaker 1: them to come back, then they were great about that,
Speaker 1: a kind of sitting target with a long peer review
Speaker 1: process data gathering. But right now the virus changes and
Speaker 1: we have to change right away, and things like that,
Speaker 1: and not everybody knows and so things like that. So
Speaker 1: the CC is really kind of a relic of an
Speaker 1: environment that wasn't as politically contested and an environment where
Speaker 1: the virus wasn't mutating as quickly as this one. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, but at this stage in the game, right,
Speaker 1: we know that this current administration, this is one of
Speaker 1: the things that they are running on right for midterms,
Speaker 1: is they're dealing with the vaccine rollout and they're dealing with,
Speaker 1: you know, the mitigation efforts around COVID, except it hasn't
Speaker 1: worked right, and there are more people in hospitals now
Speaker 1: than we're in twenty twenty. There have been more deaths
Speaker 1: now than there were in twenty twenty when this came about.
Speaker 1: So what is the conversation here? What is the what
Speaker 1: is the thing that they can say right or do
Speaker 1: two years in? You know, it's humility. Honestly, I don't
Speaker 1: know if COVID I just drank some coffee, but it's humility.
Speaker 1: It's humility, right because we're facing I mean, COVID. Humility
Speaker 1: would probably be the best thing for our country right now.
Speaker 1: We don't know all the answers. We were again, we
Speaker 1: were kicking deltas, but if it was just the delta variant,
Speaker 1: we would be done by now. The vaccines were completely effective.
Speaker 1: We could have dined indoors, we could have done whatever
Speaker 1: we wanted. That that ain't That ain't the world we're
Speaker 1: living in right now. And so the virus just changed
Speaker 1: the rules, and it changed the rules in ways that
Speaker 1: if you did modeling for the statistical likelihood of a
Speaker 1: variation that looked like omicron, you wouldn't have been able
Speaker 1: to do it like it was. The virus is outthinking us,
Speaker 1: it's outperforming us. And so I guess the issue is
Speaker 1: look at places that are just like doing, like Florida
Speaker 1: or the Bill Marshall, and you'll see and you'll see
Speaker 1: that it's not like they're coming out of it any
Speaker 1: better in a certain kind of way. And so I
Speaker 1: think some kind of humility, like, man, we don't have
Speaker 1: all the answers right now, we're doing our best. Let's
Speaker 1: all join together, that kind of thing. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I think that. I think that, Um. I think that's
Speaker 1: a I think that that's going to be the issue,
Speaker 1: because again, this thing's going to keep changing in ways
Speaker 1: we can't anticipate. You know, I just don't think that
Speaker 1: there is going to be humility. I don't think that,
Speaker 1: Like I don't, we don't even have empathy, you know,
Speaker 1: like I just and all of these things are needed
Speaker 1: in order to be able to muster through something together
Speaker 1: as a collective, as a community, right, But we're not.
Speaker 1: We're so divided and with forty percent of people not
Speaker 1: even now trusting the CDC. If there is a new variant,
Speaker 1: which I'm pretty sure there will be, I don't know
Speaker 1: why there wouldn't be, right, Like, I don't even understand
Speaker 1: why journalists are asking questions two doctors and medical professionals about,
Speaker 1: you know, is this it? Are we done? As if
Speaker 1: they're going to be able to articulate, yes, absolutely, we're finished.
Speaker 1: You all, can you know, burn your masks and like
Speaker 1: go back to doing what you were doing in twenty
Speaker 1: nineteen and forget about the last couple of years. One
Speaker 1: of the things that again is not being spoken about
Speaker 1: a lot, and I like to bring this up when
Speaker 1: I have you on is the emotional aspect of COVID
Speaker 1: and the fact that suicides are on the rise. How
Speaker 1: do you think that we should be having those conversations
Speaker 1: about the other ramifications around COVID, which are one the
Speaker 1: fact that we don't have conversations about long COVID and
Speaker 1: I just saw a tweet from somebody who said, I've
Speaker 1: been working out every day of my life since high
Speaker 1: school and now I can't walk up the stairs. And
Speaker 1: this is uh weeks past when I when I initially
Speaker 1: got COVID, and I'm really getting concerned. And then you
Speaker 1: have other people that are in emotional and mental distress
Speaker 1: with suicides being on the rise. So how do we
Speaker 1: have the conversations about the other ramifications of COVID that
Speaker 1: aren't really you know, um attached to the attached to
Speaker 1: the virus itself. Well, let me ask, what would those
Speaker 1: conversations do. I mean, I think we need to have
Speaker 1: those conversations. I'm just saying that at the core of
Speaker 1: it is that we is that we're going outside every
Speaker 1: day is a risk the way it's never been before.
Speaker 1: So we're living in a really risky world right now,
Speaker 1: and there's so much change, there's so much despair. And
Speaker 1: then I mean, I'm an optimistic person, I'm like fucking
Speaker 1: bummed out about all the political dysfunction, the rise of
Speaker 1: Like you know, I'm I worry every night that um
Speaker 1: that the Republicans are going to win the midterms and
Speaker 1: then they're going to like decertify the Arizona election results,
Speaker 1: and our whole system is going to collapse, like like
Speaker 1: political instability, you know, Putin reading the Putin of course, dude,
Speaker 1: what we really need in the middle of this is
Speaker 1: like war and made another country. That's exactly what everybody wants. Um.
Speaker 1: So it's just like it's just like there's the thing itself,
Speaker 1: which sucks. Um. And then uh, and the thing sucks
Speaker 1: right long, COVID sucks, but also just COVID itself sucks.
Speaker 1: How it tribalizes, how it everything it's it's doing, and
Speaker 1: so and then and then just it's just a you know,
Speaker 1: it's like a party for a holes in terms of
Speaker 1: just who gets to you know, who rises to the
Speaker 1: top at a moment like this. Um, it's it's not
Speaker 1: our best and our brightest, really honestly, and so um
Speaker 1: that's the understatement. Yeah. So it just feels like it
Speaker 1: just feels like back slighting and who and so, I
Speaker 1: don't know, there's so much despair now. People want it, right,
Speaker 1: Biden won because people wanted this pandemic to be over.
Speaker 1: They wanted some competency and stuff like that. But until
Speaker 1: we get a hold of the pandemic, Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: it just seems like it's it's open, it's I don't know.
Speaker 1: There's always going to be some idiot in the middle
Speaker 1: of the street saying, like, you can stand in traffic.
Speaker 1: The car's not going to hit you. The government shouldn't
Speaker 1: tell you we can't stand in traffic. You know, that's
Speaker 1: kind of and anybody dumb enough to stane in traffic
Speaker 1: is going to get the megaphone right now because nobody
Speaker 1: else wants to stand in traffic. Yeah, it's really depressing
Speaker 1: like these Yeah, I mean, you're going to you're full
Speaker 1: of good metaphord to day, but it's also just like,
Speaker 1: you know, we've been talking about guns, we've been talking
Speaker 1: about COVID, we've been talking about mental health, and I
Speaker 1: feel like what is most frustrating is that all of
Speaker 1: these dots are not connected in a way that people
Speaker 1: can see here or understand them. And I know that
Speaker 1: there's always going to be a order of the population
Speaker 1: that are going to bury their heads in the sand
Speaker 1: like ostages and just you know, you know, they're they're
Speaker 1: the people and don't look up. They're the people that
Speaker 1: are going to stare at the ground even though the
Speaker 1: comment is literally hovering over their heads like they're going
Speaker 1: to refuse any type of information. But I'm like, what
Speaker 1: about everybody else. Everybody else can't get exhausted at the
Speaker 1: same time and just decide to throw up their hands.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering, though, if that's where we're headed, where
Speaker 1: we're just going to following this and when we get
Speaker 1: to the spring, you know, if there is another variant
Speaker 1: that pops up over the summer, I don't think that
Speaker 1: we have the mental capacity anymore to deal And and
Speaker 1: that's like, that's what I'm seeing, That's what I'm hearing,
Speaker 1: and I that worries me. Yeah, no, I mean I
Speaker 1: don't know what to tell you. I'm worry Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: it feels like we're living in wartime. Honestly, that's what
Speaker 1: I feel like. We're this is a we're living in
Speaker 1: I mean, we're living in wartime and so sorry about
Speaker 1: that and so um and so I don't know, like
Speaker 1: it's weird to think about like a year ago where
Speaker 1: everything felt so horrible or whatever, and then now things
Speaker 1: are worse, right, So maybe now is better than we're
Speaker 1: going to have two years from now. So maybe now
Speaker 1: is as good as it's going to get, you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, or I mean, that's honestly
Speaker 1: really terrifying to think about, right because I thought we thought,
Speaker 1: honestly at the beginning, that the worst of it was
Speaker 1: going to be, Oh my god, what if there's no
Speaker 1: vaccine that can be created? What if we're two years
Speaker 1: in and there's no vaccine. Well, we got a vaccine,
Speaker 1: and we thought that that was going to be the
Speaker 1: silver bullet, and it's not. And so I'm like if
Speaker 1: and I'm reading people's comments, like on social media, and
Speaker 1: I'm just what the fuck is wrong with you? Like
Speaker 1: you're talking about ventilators killing people? And I'm just like
Speaker 1: are you, Like are you that dumb? But then I
Speaker 1: go back to all of the things that the Republican
Speaker 1: Party is doing two schools right and in our classrooms,
Speaker 1: like trying to literally end critical thought, and I'm just like, no,
Speaker 1: wonder why we're here, Like, no wonder why we're here.
Speaker 1: We don't care about education, we don't lift up things,
Speaker 1: we don't talk about science in any real way, like,
Speaker 1: and so there's just this one big disconnect so that
Speaker 1: all you need is one worm, like a Joe Rogan
Speaker 1: to have the most popular podcast in the fucking world
Speaker 1: be on the wrong side of damn near everything, and
Speaker 1: then we're just screwed. I just I guess it just
Speaker 1: shows me how everything in America seems to have been
Speaker 1: built on a deck of cards by a deck of cards.
Speaker 1: And it's windy every day now, and every day it
Speaker 1: just collapses. I mean. Part of the issue is also
Speaker 1: that you can you can use that playbook on any issue.
Speaker 1: That's kind of the other frustrating thing. Like I was thinking, like,
Speaker 1: imagine if you ran across the highway naked, how many
Speaker 1: people would get hit by a car? Forty percent? Maybe,
Speaker 1: So why does the government tell us we can't run
Speaker 1: across the highway naked? Right? If you smoke four packs
Speaker 1: of cigarettes today, your chance of getting lung cancer is
Speaker 1: thirty percent? So why is it bad? Why shouldn't everybody
Speaker 1: be able to smoke four packs of cigarettes today? Why
Speaker 1: do we limit smoking? Like you could the number of
Speaker 1: things you could use the logic they're using against vaccines
Speaker 1: and COVID and stuff, you could pretty much apply that
Speaker 1: to any law or any anything. With modern medicine. It's
Speaker 1: not like any single thing is one hundred percent, and
Speaker 1: many things are evolving, and many things we learned fifty
Speaker 1: years later that we you know, we went down the
Speaker 1: wrong path and we went on the right path. And
Speaker 1: so in a way, there's there are rules about a
Speaker 1: lot of things. You know, why should there be a
Speaker 1: street light a stoplight when you drive down the road.
Speaker 1: Why shouldn't the guy with the biggest car just to
Speaker 1: ride down the middle of the road. When that kind
Speaker 1: of like sense of like trust in at least a
Speaker 1: kind of common foundation of knowledge gets eroded, you know,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a pretty place, bad place to be
Speaker 1: as a society. As you were saying, the fault lines
Speaker 1: were here and we hadn't dealt with them for a
Speaker 1: very long time. But this is the kind of exposing
Speaker 1: and obviously enhancing and so the Rogan kind of logic,
Speaker 1: I mean, pick anything right. My employer, believe it or not,
Speaker 1: requires that I wear pants to come to work. What
Speaker 1: right do they have? I mean, likes there's like there's
Speaker 1: no end to that logic. You can protest anything, and
Speaker 1: it leads to all these absurd things. But I mean
Speaker 1: it's also important to think about how deep that is.
Speaker 1: It's super deep, Like we have people here at Vanderbilt
Speaker 1: in the ICU who are dying who don't believe COVID
Speaker 1: is real, and they're dying of COVID. Like it's not
Speaker 1: like there's some aha moment, you know, ideology like this
Speaker 1: is quite profound, and so I guess, I guess I
Speaker 1: haven't taken drugs since high school? Can you restart taking drugs?
Speaker 1: I'm not supped to do exactly. Yeah, I like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just like that comment of the amount of people, nurses,
Speaker 1: doctors yourself who are saying, like people's last breath, their
Speaker 1: last words are this isn't real and that's how they're dying.
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, what do you think that you're
Speaker 1: dying from? Like, I'm just so confused by it, and
Speaker 1: I'm also confused about how they find their way to
Speaker 1: the fucking hospital. But I mean the issue is also
Speaker 1: like so many people, I don't know, it's just um,
Speaker 1: it's just um, I don't know. I mean, again, the
Speaker 1: extreme cases of the ones you hear about on social media,
Speaker 1: but really it's the everyday version of this kind of
Speaker 1: disbelief that's I mean, there's always going to be a version.
Speaker 1: I mean, so media is built for these extremes, but
Speaker 1: it's kind of the everyday level of disbelief that we're
Speaker 1: living with now. Also that's almost more terrified. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. But but let me again just tell people,
Speaker 1: I love puppies. I love puppies. There you know, there's
Speaker 1: probably an island somewhere that is not affected by any
Speaker 1: of this crap. Um, No, there isn't. Yeah, isn't there
Speaker 1: the Atlantis Island. It's built by like somehamas. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: something like that. You can go on a water slide
Speaker 1: or something like that. Like, I don't know. There's gotta
Speaker 1: be There's gotta be somewhere. But it's just funny because
Speaker 1: like if you read wartime journals like Hemingway's journal from
Speaker 1: World War One, people are always imagining, like somewhere else
Speaker 1: in the world that's not affected by shelling or bombardiment
Speaker 1: or trenches. You know, that's where we are now. We're
Speaker 1: like imagining like, oh, there must be somewhere that's not
Speaker 1: infected by like people trying to overturn the election and
Speaker 1: fiato that kind of thing. So I don't know, folks,
Speaker 1: but all I have to say is, you know, if
Speaker 1: you find that place. You let us know here so
Speaker 1: that Jonathan and I can come and visit. It's got
Speaker 1: to be that behind. I mean, I don't know. It
Speaker 1: looks like a fun there's a water slide. It still
Speaker 1: has COVID. Sorry. As always, Jonathan, we appreciate you your
Speaker 1: insight and sticking with us as we continue to trudge
Speaker 1: our way through year two of a pandemic. Just you know,
Speaker 1: shock of power. Everybody hanging there as always, dear friends.
Speaker 1: Power to the people and to all the people. Power,
Speaker 1: Get woke and stay woke as fuck.