1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:17,840 Holly Frey: Warning! The following show includes discussion of escorts, drugs, septagenarian Tinder, eclipses, 2 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,800 Holly Frey: star-powered therapy, and Donald Trump's former former former lawyer. For 3 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:27,760 Holly Frey: listeners with Victorian sensibilities, please keep a fan, and smelling 4 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:28,680 Holly Frey: salts nearby. 5 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,480 Jean Le Bec: So, I guess my biggest question is am I ever 6 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,040 Jean Le Bec: going to have sex with somebody again? 7 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,080 Mangesh Hattikudur: We're sitting in Jean Le Bec's third floor apartment, right off 8 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,720 Mangesh Hattikudur: the 93rd Street stop in Bay Ridge. Jean is a 9 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,960 Mangesh Hattikudur: former teacher, just like my mom; roughly the same age, 10 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,920 Mangesh Hattikudur: seventy four. But Jean's a New York 74. She's got 11 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:03,720 Mangesh Hattikudur: that city girl edge. 12 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,839 Jean Le Bec: My name is Jean Ann Le Bec and I am 13 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:07,680 Jean Le Bec: a storyteller. 14 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,200 Mangesh Hattikudur: The sex question it's big for Jean because she was 15 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,039 Mangesh Hattikudur: married for 41 years. And she expected to stay married forever. 16 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,880 Mangesh Hattikudur: But right before the city went into lockdown, her marriage dissolved. 17 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,080 Mangesh Hattikudur: And it's taken her about three years to get to 18 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:24,560 Mangesh Hattikudur: this point. 19 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,560 Jean Le Bec: The truth is, I don't want to marry anything. I'm not 20 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,720 Jean Le Bec: looking for that. And I don't want to live with anybody. 21 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:30,840 Jean Le Bec: I'm not looking for that. 22 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,960 Mangesh Hattikudur: But she is craving something; some form of intimacy. 23 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,880 Jean Le Bec: Okay. So my daughter is my biggest support and fan, 24 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,440 Jean Le Bec: and when I've told her these stories about, you know? 25 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,920 Jean Le Bec: Guys who just really want to sex text you; they 26 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,040 Jean Le Bec: don't really want to go further than that. All the 27 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,320 Jean Le Bec: weird men that I have had a date with just... 28 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,960 Jean Le Bec: [she's like] Okay, Mom. Here's where we're at right now. I 29 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,600 Jean Le Bec: think what you need to do is call up an escort service. 30 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,040 Mangesh Hattikudur: That's right. It's early on a Saturday morning. I am 31 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,119 Mangesh Hattikudur: barely awake. I haven't even had my cup of coffee. 32 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:17,320 Mangesh Hattikudur: And I'm pretty sure I'm hearing her right. Like, is 33 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,560 Mangesh Hattikudur: this sweet 74-year old woman really asking permission to... 34 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,359 Jean Le Bec: ... hire somebody. You are there, and it's a very 35 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,960 Jean Le Bec: clear cut relationship, you know, hire them for four hours. 36 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,880 Mangesh Hattikudur: I don't know if an astrologer could help with that. I 37 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,119 Mangesh Hattikudur: don't know if any astrologer has ever been asked whether 38 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:44,160 Mangesh Hattikudur: it's the right time to hire an escort. But we're 39 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:49,639 Mangesh Hattikudur: about to find out. From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts, I'm 40 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,560 Mangesh Hattikudur: Mangesh Hattikudur. Welcome the Skyline Drive 41 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:34,000 Mangesh Hattikudur: CHAPTER ONE: POUND CAKE AND CHEMO 42 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,200 Mangesh Hattikudur: So let's talk a second about Jean's question, and questions 43 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:39,720 Mangesh Hattikudur: like these. 44 00:03:40,360 --> 00:04:00,760 vox populi: [Woman 1] Will I ever have a partner that feels safe and secure? [Man 1] Why do Scorpios get such a bad rap? [Man 2] I'm kind of curious how many dogs I will have in my life. [Man 3] Is it insane to consider trying to be a standup comedian? [Man 4] As a man who is rapidly balding, will any of my hair ever grow back? 45 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,000 Mangesh Hattikudur: That's what the show was supposed to be: finding people 46 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,120 Mangesh Hattikudur: with questions I'd never think to ask, pairing them with 47 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,000 Mangesh Hattikudur: an astrologer, then generally having a good time. And I 48 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,520 Mangesh Hattikudur: was going to take this anthropological view of it all... 49 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:18,640 Mangesh Hattikudur: like stand back, watch without judgment, try to understand and enjoy. 50 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:21,600 Mangesh Hattikudur: But just as our production was about to get off 51 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,080 Mangesh Hattikudur: the ground, I traveled to Queens to get a reading 52 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,159 Mangesh Hattikudur: from a random astrologer. And that astrologer? He warned me 53 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,559 Mangesh Hattikudur: that my dad's health would soon take a drastic turn. 54 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,120 Mangesh Hattikudur: Within twenty minutes, my dad had emailed me that the 55 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:38,560 Mangesh Hattikudur: cancer had spread through his liver. So now, a few 56 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:45,720 Mangesh Hattikudur: days later, I'm in Conyers, Georgia. 57 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,640 Mangesh Hattikudur: Conyers is mostly famous for being a speed trap on 58 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,000 Mangesh Hattikudur: the road between Atlanta and Athens, and my parents settled 59 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,880 Mangesh Hattikudur: here because my dad took a job down the road 60 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,719 Mangesh Hattikudur: a few years back. But there's little else that would 61 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,560 Mangesh Hattikudur: have drawn them here. Like there are strip malls and 62 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:08,359 Mangesh Hattikudur: Waffle Houses; banks; Targets. And then these quiet winding roads 63 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,760 Mangesh Hattikudur: that veer off it with names like Christian Circle. The 64 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,320 Mangesh Hattikudur: doctor's office is tucked away on one of these winding roads, 65 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,640 Mangesh Hattikudur: and we're waiting for the doctor in a little exam room. 66 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,960 Mangesh Hattikudur: It's actually the way my dad wants it. All of 67 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,000 Mangesh Hattikudur: us here: my mom, sister, me. 68 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,880 Mangesh Hattikudur: I'm a little surprised when the doctor walks in and 69 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:27,560 Mangesh Hattikudur: he's Indian. 70 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,960 Oncologist: So the pathology report still says preliminary. 71 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,200 Mangesh Hattikudur: I didn't know that they had more of us out 72 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,600 Mangesh Hattikudur: in Conyers. I like him immediately. He seems to really 73 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,240 Mangesh Hattikudur: know and care about my dad, and he's concerned for 74 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,719 Mangesh Hattikudur: us too. But when he starts, it's clear the news 75 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:47,280 Mangesh Hattikudur: isn't good. 76 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,719 Oncologist: But the CT scan shows that that entire liver was 77 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,280 Oncologist: studded by small, tumors. 78 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,068 Mangesh Hattikudur: It turns out it's an aggressive, small cell cancer. And 79 00:06:00,068 --> 00:06:01,600 Mangesh Hattikudur: it's going to need an aggressive response. 80 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,560 Oncologist: Waiting is okay, but your disease is behaving way too aggressive. 81 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:07,200 Mangesh Hattikudur: No, no, it's it's wonderful. 82 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,240 Mangesh Hattikudur: I've turned on my voice recorder-- not for podcasting, but 83 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,640 Mangesh Hattikudur: because I'm feeling lightheaded; uneasy about how much of this 84 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,920 Mangesh Hattikudur: information I'll retain. And so far it sounds like the 85 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,320 Mangesh Hattikudur: chemo can only do so much. 86 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,600 Oncologist: Why did I say it's not that great news? Because 87 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,359 Oncologist: small cell lung cancer is notorious not to stay in 88 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,680 Oncologist: control with chemotherapy. It goes away, but it comes right back. 89 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:37,200 Oncologist: Um so, not a good diagnosis at all, but very 90 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,160 Oncologist: treatable in its current situation. 91 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,560 Mangesh Hattikudur: This whole thing is basically cancer whack-a-mole. You can bat 92 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,800 Mangesh Hattikudur: the cancer back, cheer a little, and then start again... 93 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,719 Mangesh Hattikudur: until time runs out. The only time I smile is 94 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,000 Mangesh Hattikudur: when my dad asks timidly: 95 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:58,110 Umesh Hattikudur: Oh, yes! I've heard that medical marijuana can help with the nausea 96 00:06:58,110 --> 00:06:58,240 Umesh Hattikudur: and other things. 97 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:03,800 Mangesh Hattikudur: I remember my friend Howard. When his dad got cancer, 98 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,680 Mangesh Hattikudur: Howard got him a pound cake loaded with THC and 99 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,800 Mangesh Hattikudur: they spent the night laughing as his dad shared memories 100 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,160 Mangesh Hattikudur: along with these ridiculous life goals: like how his one 101 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,160 Mangesh Hattikudur: regret as a young man in China was that he'd 102 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:22,120 Mangesh Hattikudur: never taken a shi* on the doorstep of the French embassy. Anyway, 103 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,560 Mangesh Hattikudur: I daydreamed a little about sourcing some edibles and playing 104 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,080 Mangesh Hattikudur: my dad's favorite records as we chat through the night... 105 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:30,240 Mangesh Hattikudur: before I hear this: 106 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,800 Oncologist: You really don't want elderly parents to be dealing with 107 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:39,680 Oncologist: metastatic cancer 300 miles away. It's just not ... Invariably, 108 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,360 Oncologist: no matter how slow the treatment goes is the only part. 109 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,320 Mangesh Hattikudur: In the best case scenario, we'll get three to four 110 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,720 Mangesh Hattikudur: more years with my dad. That's if the treatment takes. 111 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,360 Mangesh Hattikudur: It's something to hope for, but it's more likely we'll 112 00:07:58,360 --> 00:07:59,520 Mangesh Hattikudur: get three to four months. 113 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,080 Mangesh Hattikudur: The thing is, there's no time to waste. A nurse 114 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,320 Mangesh Hattikudur: wheels my dad to a different wing to begin the 115 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,200 Mangesh Hattikudur: chemo immediately. My mom is trying to be brave, but 116 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,960 Mangesh Hattikudur: she's still dazed. I tug at her arm and hold 117 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,280 Mangesh Hattikudur: it as we walk to the car. Everything is daunting, 118 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,840 Mangesh Hattikudur: but it also feels manageable. So instead of worrying, I 119 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,960 Mangesh Hattikudur: focus on our wish list. My dad still speaks some Portuguese 120 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,520 Mangesh Hattikudur: from his childhood in Goa, and I know he wants 121 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,080 Mangesh Hattikudur: to see Lisbon. I know he wants to see his 122 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,000 Mangesh Hattikudur: grandkids more. He wants to see my sister getting married. 123 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,200 Mangesh Hattikudur: So I'm thinking, what can I do? What money do 124 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,800 Mangesh Hattikudur: we need? How can I move my schedule around? Four 125 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:45,240 Mangesh Hattikudur: months is not a lot of time, but I'm going 126 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:46,520 Mangesh Hattikudur: to make it feel like enough. 127 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,199 Mangesh Hattikudur: CHAPTER TWO: SECRETS AND LIES 128 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,479 Jean Le Bec: I lived in a family with a lot of secrets. 129 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,480 Mangesh Hattikudur: Secrets are the thing that shaped Jean, and I have 130 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,040 Mangesh Hattikudur: a feeling it's what's driven her to tell these beautiful, 131 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:21,120 Mangesh Hattikudur: unvarnished stories about herself. Inside her place, past the entry 132 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,080 Mangesh Hattikudur: and the kitchen doorway and the hallway lined with photos, 133 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,599 Mangesh Hattikudur: there's a living room filled with vintage furniture. Stuff you'd 134 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:33,120 Mangesh Hattikudur: covet from your favorite thrift store. Jean tells me to 135 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:37,160 Mangesh Hattikudur: sit anywhere; make myself comfortable. And so I do: first 136 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,319 Mangesh Hattikudur: on this bright, beautiful sofa. And then on an ottoman, 137 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:42,800 Mangesh Hattikudur: just a little closer to her. 138 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,170 Jean Le Bec: I grew up right here in Brooklyn-- not in Bay Ridge, but 139 00:09:46,170 --> 00:09:48,840 Jean Le Bec: in Crown Heights. Which is now a groovy, groovy place 140 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,400 Jean Le Bec: to live. But during those days it was a hard-working 141 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,120 Jean Le Bec: Irish Catholic neighborhood. And we were the only Jewish family. 142 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,680 Mangesh Hattikudur: Kids playing marbles, buying nickel comics, hanging out on stoops, 143 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,600 Mangesh Hattikudur: running around the neighborhood until the lamp post flicker and 144 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,679 Mangesh Hattikudur: you just know it's time to race home. It all 145 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,960 Mangesh Hattikudur: sounds so idyllic, but her childhood was also cloaked in 146 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,959 Mangesh Hattikudur: something darker because of her parents political leanings. 147 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,240 Jean Le Bec: We lived this kind of life of secrets and lies. 148 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,920 Jean Le Bec: They couldn't tell anybody they were American Communists. They couldn't 149 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,280 Jean Le Bec: tell anybody they knew Jules and Ethel Rosenberg. 150 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:35,079 Mock 50s TV documentary: A refresher on Julius and Ethel Rosenberg: Julius Rosenberg A 151 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,080 Mock 50s TV documentary: Taurus and Ethel Rosenberg A Libra met and fell in 152 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,840 Mock 50s TV documentary: love at the Young Communist League. When Taurus and Libra 153 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,640 Mock 50s TV documentary: come together in a love affair, it can be the 154 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,120 Mock 50s TV documentary: unification of two halves of a whole. Julius had a 155 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,800 Mock 50s TV documentary: steady job working for the Army Signal Corps as an engineer, 156 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:59,240 Mock 50s TV documentary: but he was fired for being a socialist commmunism 157 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,200 Mock 50s TV documentary: [tape click] What is it? Who are the apostles of 158 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,600 Mock 50s TV documentary: a system that attempts to destroy the American way of life? 159 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,160 Mock 50s TV documentary: In the nineties and fifties, a communist panic swept across America, 160 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:17,160 Mock 50s TV documentary: set off by a Scorpio named Senator Joseph McCarthy. McCarthy 161 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:21,199 Mock 50s TV documentary: was known for his wild and sensational attacks. The Scorpio 162 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,640 Mock 50s TV documentary: zodiac sign concerns itself with beginnings and endings and is 163 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,040 Mock 50s TV documentary: unafraid of either. They also travel in the world that 164 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,000 Mock 50s TV documentary: is black and white and has little use for gray. 165 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,800 Mock 50s TV documentary: At the time, Hollywood directors, prominent politicians, and government insiders 166 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:42,040 Mock 50s TV documentary: were terrified for their lives and careers. In the couple 167 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,239 Mock 50s TV documentary: was put on trial for passing atomic secrets to the Soviets. 168 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,520 Mock 50s TV documentary: The Rosenbergs claimed innocence, but they still got the electric chair. 169 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,480 Mock 50s TV documentary: The man who prosecuted them? A 23-year old pisces named 170 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,960 Mock 50s TV documentary: Roy Cohn. One witness from the trial, tried to take 171 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,960 Mock 50s TV documentary: back his testimony. He said the reason he lied on 172 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,320 Mock 50s TV documentary: the stand was because Cohn had threatened to lock up 173 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,880 Mock 50s TV documentary: his wife and make life hell for his family. Many 174 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:12,679 Mock 50s TV documentary: people associate Pisces with dreams and secrets as a mutable sign. 175 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:18,679 Mock 50s TV documentary: Pisces holds adaptive, fluid and shape-shifting quality. 176 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,200 Mangesh Hattikudur: Anyway, back to Jean. It makes sense that her family 177 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,400 Mangesh Hattikudur: hid the fact that they were close with the Rosenbergs. 178 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,640 Mangesh Hattikudur: But that wasn't the only secret they were hiding. 179 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:32,080 Jean Le Bec: My sister is gay. Being gay during those times was 180 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,800 Jean Le Bec: really a horrifying thing. And I remember when she told 181 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,480 Jean Le Bec: me she was gay, I thought this was the greatest 182 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,880 Jean Le Bec: thing I ever heard. And she was like: you cannot 183 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,319 Jean Le Bec: tell a soul, nobody can know about this. 184 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:49,280 Mangesh Hattikudur: Like being Communist, being Jewish, being gay was just another 185 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,400 Mangesh Hattikudur: thing she couldn't talk about. As she's telling me about 186 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,120 Mangesh Hattikudur: her past, it makes more sense why Jean's welcomed me in; 187 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:00,160 Mangesh Hattikudur: why she's agreed to talk. The thing is, Jean is 188 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:01,439 Mangesh Hattikudur: a total romantic. 189 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,240 Jean Le Bec: One of my favorite stories that I told was the 190 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,200 Jean Le Bec: time I had my first orgasm. I had been married, 191 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,720 Jean Le Bec: I had a baby, and still didn't know my own body. 192 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,200 Mangesh Hattikudur: It's the 1970s and Jean is in her twenties-- a single 193 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,839 Mangesh Hattikudur: mom with a kid. She had briefly been married to 194 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,079 Mangesh Hattikudur: her high school sweetheart, and now she's working at this 195 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,920 Mangesh Hattikudur: daycare center where she has this colleague named Mona. And 196 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,840 Mangesh Hattikudur: they're a lot alike. They're both putting themselves through school 197 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,080 Mangesh Hattikudur: in the evenings. They both have little girls that are 198 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:30,920 Mangesh Hattikudur: the same age. 199 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,000 Jean Le Bec: We formed this friendship with each other, and then one 200 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,720 Jean Le Bec: night we went to see this movie and was sitting 201 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,000 Jean Le Bec: in the car and she looks at me and says, 202 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,079 Jean Le Bec: you know, I really feel like kissing you. I said, 203 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:45,480 Jean Le Bec: so kiss me! 204 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,360 Mangesh Hattikudur: That kiss. It was like fireworks. 205 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,360 Jean Le Bec: I mean, Mona and I had been intimate, but I never 206 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:59,079 Jean Le Bec: had an orgasm. After this orgasm, she put on candles 207 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,720 Jean Le Bec: and everything, and she looked at me and she said: "you know, sweetie, 208 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,400 Jean Le Bec: you could do this anytime you want." I mean, the 209 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:10,240 Jean Le Bec: whole idea of that kind of power. And so I 210 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,000 Jean Le Bec: begin to be kind of a crazy masturbator. You know. 211 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,560 Jean Le Bec: I would like go to my job at the daycare center, 212 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,840 Jean Le Bec: and it was lunchtime, I'd run back. And so it was 213 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,160 Jean Le Bec: this whole description of just feeling giddy with this kind 214 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,040 Jean Le Bec: of new found knowledge. 215 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,480 Mangesh Hattikudur: Mona would move away not long after, leaving the city, 216 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,440 Mangesh Hattikudur: but it wasn't long before Jean would fall in love again. 217 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,000 Mangesh Hattikudur: In fact, in some ways, her next love would hit 218 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,875 Mangesh Hattikudur: her even harder. Here's the story she told at the Moth: 219 00:14:39,875 --> 00:14:43,280 Jean Le Bec: It's assembly day and I'm so nervous. My class is 220 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,960 Jean Le Bec: putting on a play for the entire school, and I'm 221 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,320 Jean Le Bec: walking down the auditorium-- the center aisle --carrying all these props. 222 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,400 Jean Le Bec: And [deleted name] takes my hand to help me navigate 223 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,680 Jean Le Bec: up the stage steps, and my hand melts into his, 224 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,280 Jean Le Bec: and his hand melts into mine, and our fingers linger, never 225 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,240 Jean Le Bec: wanting to let go. And as Miss Hall crosses the 226 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,080 Jean Le Bec: stage to go to the piano, and kids are getting 227 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,440 Jean Le Bec: their assembly seats, and the rain is beating against the window, 228 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,040 Jean Le Bec: we fall madly in love. 229 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,640 Mangesh Hattikudur: Jean and that teacher? They get married, raised her daughter together... 230 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,840 Mangesh Hattikudur: and then a son, too. They become grandparents together. And 231 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,800 Mangesh Hattikudur: then one morning, 41 years later... 232 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,640 Jean Le Bec: ... over coffee, he said, "I'm leaving." 233 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,440 Mangesh Hattikudur: Her husband came clean about another woman he'd been seeing. 234 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,840 Mangesh Hattikudur: But it wasn't long before Jean realized there were more. 235 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,200 Jean Le Bec: He was having copious amounts of affairs. It was almost 236 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,200 Jean Le Bec: like a house of cards fell down. Um, he's an 237 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,640 Jean Le Bec: expert con man. He swept me off my feet. It 238 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,280 Jean Le Bec: was almost like that love that, you know, you think 239 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,584 Jean Le Bec: you're never ever going to find again. And then it 240 00:15:52,584 --> 00:15:54,400 Jean Le Bec: all just kind of crashed. And I had to kind 241 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:55,640 Jean Le Bec: of weed through the betrayal. 242 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,320 Mangesh Hattikudur: It didn't take much detective work for Jean to realize 243 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,480 Mangesh Hattikudur: he'd been cheating since the start of their relationship... with friends, colleagues, 244 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,280 Mangesh Hattikudur: random women along the way. Jean was heartbroken. She still is. 245 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:09,920 Mangesh Hattikudur: And it's tainted the way she looks at the past. 246 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,040 Jean Le Bec: Because I see a happy family, but I think: Was 247 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,040 Jean Le Bec: he involved with this woman then? Or who was he 248 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:18,080 Jean Le Bec: involved with then? 249 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,560 Mangesh Hattikudur: Jean is done grieving. She no longer wants to look backwards. 250 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,520 Jean Le Bec: What is this next journey about for myself? Because I 251 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,920 Jean Le Bec: feel like I'm at the brink of something. I just 252 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,040 Jean Le Bec: don't know what the brink is. I don't know what 253 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:31,920 Jean Le Bec: something is. 254 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,360 Mangesh Hattikudur: The truth is, Jean does not believe in astrology. She's 255 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,760 Mangesh Hattikudur: had opportunities before to have her chart read, but she's 256 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:40,000 Mangesh Hattikudur: never really seen the point. 257 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,000 Jean Le Bec: You know, my sister was into astrology, but you know, 258 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,200 Jean Le Bec: we all thought it was bullshit, you know? And I 259 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,840 Jean Le Bec: always thought, like, please have a glass of wine, relax, 260 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,040 Jean Le Bec: it's more meaningful than this. 261 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,320 Mangesh Hattikudur: But that was then. Today, at 74, Jean recognizes how 262 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,680 Mangesh Hattikudur: precious her time is. Over and over, she tells me, 263 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,400 Mangesh Hattikudur: I've got ten years, ten good years to drink in 264 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:10,440 Mangesh Hattikudur: all the richness of life. And if there's any chance 265 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,800 Mangesh Hattikudur: that astrology can unlock that secret, she's open to it. 266 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:21,640 Mangesh Hattikudur: Oh and there's still the matter of the escorts. More 267 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:22,639 Mangesh Hattikudur: on that after the break. 268 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,680 Mangesh Hattikudur: CHAPTER THREE: WHEELS THAT WORK 269 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,120 Janelle Belgrave: You know, I don't think humans hang on to things 270 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,280 Janelle Belgrave: that don't work. Like the wheel is awesome, like we 271 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,560 Janelle Belgrave: still use it. We don't say, oh, this wheel is 272 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,800 Janelle Belgrave: out of date. Like no, it's functional, right? So that's 273 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,879 Janelle Belgrave: the same thing with astrology. Like we don't study this 274 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,040 Janelle Belgrave: stuff because it doesn't work. 275 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,399 Mangesh Hattikudur: Over the summer, my friends and I started the search 276 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,520 Mangesh Hattikudur: for a house astrologer for this show. We thought hard 277 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,760 Mangesh Hattikudur: about using Dr Kumar, but I was reluctant. Looking back, 278 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,600 Mangesh Hattikudur: it's obvious why. Dr Kumar's predictions had set off a 279 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,800 Mangesh Hattikudur: chain of events that I just needed to compartmentalize away 280 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,000 Mangesh Hattikudur: from the show. I needed a different experience, and Janelle 281 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:25,760 Mangesh Hattikudur: Belgrave is definitely that. She is sunny and relentlessly encouraging. 282 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,439 Mangesh Hattikudur: And the first time I chatted with her, I was 283 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,840 Mangesh Hattikudur: smiling the whole time. Like, I love the way she 284 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,480 Mangesh Hattikudur: peppered the conversation with this secret knowledge of just how 285 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:36,879 Mangesh Hattikudur: pervasive astrology is. 286 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,440 Janelle Belgrave: If you don't think there are multi billionaires using astrology 287 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,640 Janelle Belgrave: to get ahead, let me tell you something: they're out there. 288 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,320 Mangesh Hattikudur: I mean, that's what my whole show was supposed to 289 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,720 Mangesh Hattikudur: peek into. But it was actually something more than that. 290 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,400 Mangesh Hattikudur: As my little team of skeptics here talked about the production, 291 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,520 Mangesh Hattikudur: we decided that using Janelle almost seemed fated. Like when 292 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,760 Mangesh Hattikudur: Mary and Mitra set out to find an astrologer for 293 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,480 Mangesh Hattikudur: the show, they independently made lists and somehow, not only 294 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,280 Mangesh Hattikudur: did they both find Janelle, but they both had her 295 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,800 Mangesh Hattikudur: as their top choice. So we chalked it up to 296 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,600 Mangesh Hattikudur: destiny and rolled with it. 297 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,600 Mangesh Hattikudur: Janelle's real New York too. She's from Queens and her 298 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:30,920 Mangesh Hattikudur: parents are immigrants from Panama. Janelle doesn't sugarcoat things, so 299 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,119 Mangesh Hattikudur: when I asked her about the birthday for this show 300 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,480 Mangesh Hattikudur: and the show's timing, let's just say she was 301 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,720 Mangesh Hattikudur: less optimistic than Dr Kumar, who told me the show 302 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,080 Mangesh Hattikudur: was going to be a mega hit. 303 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:47,240 Janelle Belgrave: So you guys said that it was May sixteen am 304 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:48,359 Janelle Belgrave: in Brooklyn, New York. Correct? 305 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:51,408 Mangesh Hattikudur: That's when we named the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 306 00:19:51,408 --> 00:19:56,440 Janelle Belgrave: Right, okay. Right, okay. Soooo, you guys are a Taurus sun, 307 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:02,000 Janelle Belgrave: a Cancer-rising moon, in Sagittarius. Um, you guys planned this 308 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,720 Janelle Belgrave: right under an eclipse, which is really interesting. 309 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:06,374 Mangesh Hattikudur: Is that bad? 310 00:20:06,374 --> 00:20:10,040 Janelle Belgrave: Um, not necessarily bad, but eclipse energy can be very volatile. 311 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:15,200 Mangesh Hattikudur: I guess I've got to temper my expectations. But even 312 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,159 Mangesh Hattikudur: when Janelle is prepping you for a turbulent time ahead, 313 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,600 Mangesh Hattikudur: I like how she's still encouraging. 314 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,440 Janelle Belgrave: You're starting under a lot of retrogrades and that's okay, 315 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:25,960 Janelle Belgrave: but you just have to know that you can have 316 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,760 Janelle Belgrave: to be patient use that to your benefit. 317 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,320 Mangesh Hattikudur: Now this is an aside, but last year I started 318 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,360 Mangesh Hattikudur: giving monstera plants away to people who had been going 319 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,159 Mangesh Hattikudur: through hard things. It is a super Instagram-able plant, but 320 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,679 Mangesh Hattikudur: that's not why I like it. The monstera is unusual. 321 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:50,520 Mangesh Hattikudur: If left in the dark, it exhibits something called negative phototropism, 322 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,240 Mangesh Hattikudur: where all the new stems will actually grow into the darkness. 323 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,159 Mangesh Hattikudur: It's a clever trick. In the jungle, darkness signals the 324 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,600 Mangesh Hattikudur: presence of a larger tree, so the monstera trusts that 325 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,480 Mangesh Hattikudur: it can lean into the shadows and pool all of 326 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,440 Mangesh Hattikudur: its energy into climbing that trunk... because it believes sunlight 327 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:08,920 Mangesh Hattikudur: will come. 328 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:15,240 Mangesh Hattikudur: I like that reminder because I've needed that reminder. And 329 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,080 Mangesh Hattikudur: that's what's so great about Janelle. The beauty she's found 330 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,119 Mangesh Hattikudur: in reminding people that hope still exists. 331 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,480 Janelle Belgrave: There's always hope in the darkest moments of our life. 332 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:27,639 Janelle Belgrave: When you look back, it's like, Yeah, there was that 333 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,080 Janelle Belgrave: some person that came to me that day and said something, 334 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,359 Janelle Belgrave: and that was the thing I needed to get to 335 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,199 Janelle Belgrave: the next day. And that next day was miraculous. 336 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,240 Mangesh Hattikudur: There's a joy in pairing up a couple you have 337 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,359 Mangesh Hattikudur: a good feeling about. Jean is so clearly yearning, and 338 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,680 Mangesh Hattikudur: I wanted to witness what magic might come out when 339 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,320 Mangesh Hattikudur: you put Jean and Janelle, and all their stars and 340 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,920 Mangesh Hattikudur: their stories, in a room together. 341 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,854 Mangesh Hattikudur: CHAPTER FOUR: YOU DON'T WANT TO WASTE A MINUTE 342 00:22:09,854 --> 00:38:39,345 Mangesh Hattikudur: It is months before I see Jean again. We are sitting in her apartment. This time it's my producer Mitra and me, and we've set up a consult with Janelle, but 20 minutes in, everything is going wrong. Sound waves are flashing across the laptop. But apparently it hasn't been taping. Uh, worse, the backup recorder got jammed, and then our batteries died. It's like this taping is jinxed. Of course Janelle doesn't miss a beat. She makes a crack about eclipses and the universe showing us just how real astrology is, and she reminds us that if we'd tried this a few days from now, everything would've gone smoothly. We all laugh, but we try again. 343 00:38:39,345 --> 00:39:30,049 Janelle Belgrave: Okay, so where should we start? 344 00:39:30,049 --> 00:39:30,055 Mangesh Hattikudur: In my head, I'm screaming: “Escorts. We've got to talk about escorts!” If you listen to the tape from 15 minutes ago, it is all static. But what you would've heard, what I wish we still had, was the discussion and where it began. Before Jean had even said the word escort, Janelle basically said: "Jean, your chart is telling me that you're meant to go enjoy yourself. The universe wants you to enjoy yourself. So go on dates, go on hikes, go have sex, go do the things that feel fun." 345 00:39:30,055 --> 00:39:30,058 Mangesh Hattikudur: But I don't have that tape, because I started this show in an eclipse. And somehow it's easier to tell myself that, to make that the excuse, than to stop Jean from taking the conversation in the direction she needs it to go. 346 00:39:30,058 --> 00:39:30,059 Jean Le Bec: I have been feeling like I'm on the edge of something, but I don't know what that looks like. 347 00:39:30,059 --> 00:39:30,066 Janelle Belgrave: Mm. I gotcha. Okay. So I actually want to take you back to your last new moon that you had. So basically, this is just to show you that there's no such thing as like linear time in astrology. So when we are at a new moon phase in our life, it's when we're starting a brand new chapter, we've ended one chapter. Okay? So back in 2011, April, 2011, you had a new moon happen in your progressed chart at 19 degrees of Aries. So if you can think back to what was happening in your life in 2011- 348 00:39:30,066 --> 00:39:30,068 Jean Le Bec: I can tell you exactly. I, I know exactly what was happening because that was so- I can't believe you just said that. I'm blown away. 349 00:39:30,068 --> 00:39:30,071 Janelle Belgrave: Okay, hold on to that thought. Don't give, don't give it away just yet. Cause I want us to kind of flow through it. So back then you planted seeds, right? Okay. And then you're gonna track the moon. 350 00:39:30,071 --> 00:39:30,073 Mangesh Hattikudur: As she continues, Janelle traces her cursor over the flow of the moon through Jean's sign, and she shows her how the moon has moved with her over the years. 351 00:39:30,073 --> 00:39:30,074 Janelle Belgrave: So around probably I would say 2016 or so is when things probably got a little bit rocky, especially when it came to marriage. 352 00:39:30,074 --> 00:39:30,074 Jean Le Bec: Oh yeah. 353 00:39:30,074 --> 00:39:30,076 Janelle Belgrave: So September of 2019 maybe would've been a time where things might've gotten a little bit tough. 354 00:39:30,076 --> 00:39:30,077 Jean Le Bec: Oh my God. Yeah. I have the chills. I do have the chills. 355 00:39:30,077 --> 00:39:30,079 Janelle Belgrave: I'm showing you how astrology works. Just showing you the timing. So we're seeing this moon hit with Pluto, right? So possibly endings, deaths, changes, transformations- 356 00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:30,079 Jean Le Bec: Endings, endings. 357 00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:30,083 Mangesh Hattikudur: The scene reminds me of what my friend Pete, the rockstar astrologer, told me, this concept of Jyotish Mati — what you're going for in a great reading. Like that shared connection between astrologer and the person being read, passing the light of awareness. 358 00:39:30,083 --> 00:39:30,088 Jean Le Bec: I'm really sitting here completely overwhelmed, I have to tell you. Because when you, like, say a specific thing, like September, you know, 2019, um, (BEEP) looked me in the face and said, bye-bye. I'm leaving you for another woman. And so that's a month, that's a time that I don't really- no one really knows, like, oh, that happened. But then when you just said it, I was like, you did not just say that. 359 00:39:30,088 --> 00:39:30,090 Janelle Belgrave: Yeah, right? Sometimes it's very literal. Pluto is the planet, uh, Pluto is the planet of death and transformation and saying, this is the end. 360 00:39:30,090 --> 00:39:30,098 Mangesh Hattikudur: I'm watching the two of them, and it's clear something has clicked. In just a few minutes, Jean is transformed from this person who is, I guess, willing to give astrology a chance to someone who's sitting on her hands to stop herself from waving them so excitedly. Despite the screen, there is an intensity between them. Every month or day Janelle throws out seems to provoke this avalanche of memories. And each time Jean is about to let out this rush of words, like, just let them spill from her mouth, Janelle smiles like a Cheshire cat. She tells her to hold it in just a little more. 361 00:39:30,098 --> 00:39:30,101 Mangesh Hattikudur: Janelle is confident there's power in astrology. She's felt it for decades now, but in this moment, that power is so clear. It's animating every dopamine receptor in Jean's brain, and she is buzzing, glowing with electricity. 362 00:39:30,101 --> 00:39:30,103 Janelle Belgrave: If I know, if I have two and a half years to make use of this energy, I have to do it. Otherwise, it's not gonna come back for another, what, 14 years. 363 00:39:30,103 --> 00:39:30,103 Jean Le Bec: Right. 364 00:39:30,103 --> 00:39:30,104 Janelle Belgrave: I don't wanna have to waste that time. Right. 365 00:39:30,104 --> 00:39:30,105 Jean Le Bec: Exactly. No, I don't. At 74, you don't wanna waste a minute. 366 00:39:30,105 --> 00:39:30,105 Mangesh Hattikudur: CHAPTER FIVE: A COUCH WITH A VIEW 367 00:39:30,105 --> 00:39:30,113 Mangesh Hattikudur: My sister's a psychologist, a PhD. And we have this line we use about Indians. It's okay to be a psychiatrist, but it's not okay to see a psychiatrist. Years ago, when my wife and I were looking into international adoption from India, the forms indicated that if you'd ever seen a psychiatrist, you'd be disqualified from adopting. I'm ashamed to admit that for years it kept me from seeing a grief counselor. I mean, along with all the other stresses of life, I lost a cousin to a suicide and a best friend to an overdose, and I struggled. I was a shell of myself. 368 00:39:30,113 --> 00:39:30,115 Mangesh Hattikudur: The truth is, in those years I was not a great dad or a great husband, and I could have used the therapy. But I also didn't want to limit our options as potential parents. 369 00:39:30,115 --> 00:39:30,123 Mangesh Hattikudur: Anyway, for Indians, including the Indian government, the stigma is real. So things like religion and astrology, they fill the gap. And it makes sense, right? Astrology allows you to put a symbol on something that's hard to name and to reframe your problems from a different lens. It's therapy for people who just don't want to go to therapy. But what happens when those notions are flipped? Like, what if your therapist was secretly powering their sessions using the stars to amplify their understanding of you? Because that's what Ava does. 370 00:39:30,123 --> 00:39:30,124 Ava (therapist): Oh my God. I feel like I'm a little bashful. I'm a licensed therapist. 371 00:39:30,124 --> 00:39:30,126 Mangesh Hattikudur: Ava, which is not her real name, is a successful trauma therapist from the Midwest, and she's keenly aware of the baggage that astrology carries. 372 00:39:30,126 --> 00:39:30,128 Ava (therapist): Do I worry if I bring it up people don't take me seriously? Of course. For younger clients, I think it's kind of almost a way of connecting. But yeah, my clients who are older, it's a little bit more of a finesse. 373 00:39:30,128 --> 00:39:30,130 Mangesh Hattikudur: So before she dives in with a new client, she floats a few questions to see just how open she can be with them. 374 00:39:30,130 --> 00:39:30,135 Ava (therapist): It's something that I kind of test the waters to see: are they into astrology? Is it something they're not that into, right. And if they are, it's wonderful, cuz we can fold that into our understanding. Like, holy shit, like, Saturn and Mars are being transited by Saturn. That, from what you're telling me, that makes a lot of sense. 375 00:39:30,135 --> 00:39:30,136 Mangesh Hattikudur: Of course, even when they're not into astrology. Ava still keeps an eye on their chart. 376 00:39:30,136 --> 00:39:30,144 Ava (therapist): I still have their birthdays. I can see where their planets are. Which isn't to say that changes how I show up to them. My number-one job is to be here with the client. Therapy existing in this world of diagnoses and insurance and all these things that are trying to make it be short, and get people back to work, and make people legible in this really fucked up system, right, so much of that is not helpful in the actual work of therapy. But I think astrology just, it allows me to kind of ground back into the trust of having this big perspective and this small perspective at the same time. 377 00:39:30,144 --> 00:39:30,151 Mangesh Hattikudur: There are so many people who see therapy and astrology at odds with one another. But Ava, she hopes there's new ways about thinking about both, because both have the ability to give you agency. I mean, isn't that what we go to therapy for? Isn't that what we want from astrology, to access perspectives big and small? Because so much of what we're looking for is someone to tell us what really matters, what we can set aside, and to teach us what to spend our precious time on. 378 00:39:30,151 --> 00:39:30,155 Ava (therapist): This idea of human progress is linear just boggles my mind. Like, what the heck? That makes no sense to me. And with astrology it is not at all, right? Planets are coming into places and then going back, and you're like, this is so frustrating. I'm back to where I was. And then it moves forward. 379 00:39:30,155 --> 00:39:30,157 Mangesh Hattikudur: To Ava, there's something very human about acknowledging that in the fog of healing, things are often more complicated than just trying to move forward. 380 00:39:30,157 --> 00:39:30,160 Ava (therapist): We're trying to understand things that are beyond comprehension in some ways, right? How humbling to know that we don't always have to. I think that astrology and trauma therapy really hold that capacity in a really beautiful way. 381 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:30,160 Mangesh Hattikudur: CHAPTER SIX: MIC CHECK 382 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:30,161 Mangesh Hattikudur: Jean and I sat in her apartment after the reading, and we talked for a while. 383 00:39:30,161 --> 00:39:30,162 Mangesh Hattikudur: What's spinning in your head? Like, what are you thinking about? 384 00:39:30,162 --> 00:39:30,164 Jean Le Bec: First of all, I feel, I don't know if I can, you could- I feel stoned outta my mind. I feel as though I'm on some, like, acid trip or something. 385 00:39:30,164 --> 00:39:30,169 Mangesh Hattikudur: Coming into this reading, I thought we'd devote a good bit of conversation to the salaciousness and fun of hiring an escort. But so much of this, to me, felt like Jean just needed to be seen. What she needed from the astrologer and what she actually wanted from the escort was the same thing. She needed someone from the outside world to remind her just how much she mattered. 386 00:39:30,169 --> 00:39:30,179 Jean Le Bec: I think what was most empowering about this for me was, at 74 and living alone, you often feel very invisible. You know, you do. And it's like, I say to myself, oh my God, I could die right now. No one's even gonna know. You know, that kind of feeling. And what she did by saying: Hey, this is what's happening- I mean, I could not repeat now, the moon in the house and the- but there was an overall sense of: You are part of the flow of the energy of the earth, my dear, and you are on a ride, you know? And you have been since you were born, and you will continue. And so by saying, “You have the power to do that,” it was like, I'm not invisible. I'm not. And that was very- that was very big. 387 00:39:30,179 --> 00:39:30,183 Mangesh Hattikudur: I'm envious of Jean, because whatever you think of astrology, she got to feel seen. And then she had the luxury of time to process it. She decided for herself what she wanted to take out of it and what she wants the rest of her life to be. It's a gift. 388 00:39:30,183 --> 00:39:30,187 Mangesh Hattikudur: On May 7th, 2022, exactly a month after I got a warning about my father's health in the form of a reading, he passed. I won't tell you the details yet. I'm just not ready. But I will tell you this. That list I made for my dad? We hardly got through it. And all that time I thought I'd been promised, it slipped through my clenched fist. 389 00:39:30,187 --> 00:39:30,196 Mangesh Hattikudur: Sitting in Jean's room, listening to this talk of moons and whether this is the close of a chapter or just another middle, I am not present. But before I can slip too far away, Mitra adjusts my hand. She moves the mic I'm holding just a hair away from my face. But that touch, it pulls me back into the moment, and then it makes me smile. Because whatever else I've been through, I'm so lucky to be here. To get to work on projects I love. To meet people like Jean. And as much as my days now will be divided between longing for a past that I cannot have and divining what the future can be, I know she's right when she says this. 390 00:39:30,196 --> 00:39:30,198 Jean Le Bec: This is the only moment. This is the only moment, and no other moment will be greater or less than. It's just- this is the moment. 391 00:39:30,198 --> 00:39:30,199 Mangesh Hattikudur: Next week, we tackle an unsolved mystery in the Reagan White House. 392 00:39:30,199 --> 00:39:30,200 1980s reporter: Mr. President, will you continue to allow astrology to play a part in the makeup of your daily schedule, sir? 393 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:30,201 Press: (Boos) Come on. Knock it off, man. 394 00:39:30,201 --> 00:39:30,206 Mangesh Hattikudur: So-- did Ronald Reagan use astrology to guide his foreign policy? Also, we get distracted watching Saturday morning cartoons, we dig up some televangelist beef, we learn about Boris Yeltsin's late-night cravings, and we find an incredible gem hiding in an old Johnny Carson clip. It's eighties week here on Skyline Drive, so be sure to tune in. 395 00:39:30,206 --> 00:39:30,220 Mangesh Hattikudur: Thank you so much for listening. Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts. This show is hosted and written by me, Mangesh Hattikudur, but this show would be a bad idea sitting in a drawer somewhere if it were not for all these incredible people. Mary Phillips-Sandy is just the best. She's our supervising producer, and I don't know how she pulled this off with everything else going on. Mitra Bonshahi senior produced this whole thing and brought the delightful Jean LeBec into our world. Mark Lotto is such a mensch and story editor who really made this whole story incredible. This episode was also produced and mixed by the wonderful Anna Rubanova. Thank you so much, Anna. With scoring as always from Botany, check out his SoundCloud. The insane music in between is courtesy of Azadi Records, Raaginder, Himanshi Suri, Monsoon Siren, and also Peter Matthew Bauer. This song playing right now is off his beautiful new album Flowers. If you want to hear all of this music, we link to a mix tape in the show notes. 396 00:39:30,220 --> 00:39:30,228 Mangesh Hattikudur: Oh my gosh, the fifties narration. So funny, right? That was Adam Bozarth. Thank you so much, Adam, for doing that Rosenberg section and making me laugh so hard. Also, the astrology descriptions come from astrology.com. Jean's story about falling in love is from the Moth. Go download their wonderful show immediately. Additional production and research support from the wonderful Lizzie Jacobs, who is my wife and my rock, my superstar Aunt Suman Bakshi, and my cousin Arjun Bakshi, who helped me out of a giant pickle. 397 00:39:30,228 --> 00:39:30,239 Mangesh Hattikudur: This show is executive produced from iHeart by my good pals, Nikki Ettore and Katrina Norvell. Also gotta thank my partners from Kaleidoscope. Just the best team! Oz Woloshyn, Kate Osborne, Costas Linos, and the super dynamic Vahini Shori who made the crazy sweet collage of my family on Insta. P.S., Vahini, my mom loved it. Special thanks to all the kiddos who bore with us through this production. All my friends at iHeart, Shanta and Saurabh, my family everywhere. My pal Holly Frey, who read this episode's warning, if you haven't listened to Stuff You Missed in History Class, you're missing out. Or you can check out her excellent podcast, Criminalia. Go download both immediately. And just one last, thank you as always to my Amma and my Dad, Lalita and Umesh Hattikudur, who I thank my lucky stars for. Thank you all for listening.