1 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: Warning. The following show includes discussion of escorts, drugs, septagenarian 2 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: Tinder eclipses, star powered therapy, and Donald Trump's former former 3 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: former lawyer. For listeners with Victorian sensibilities, please keep a 4 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: fan and smelling salts nearby. 5 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 2: So I guess my biggest question is am I ever 6 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 2: going to have sex with somebody again? 7 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 3: We're sitting in Jean Lebec's third floor apartment right off 8 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 3: the ninety third Street stop in Bay Ridge. Jean is 9 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 3: a former teacher, just like my mom, roughly the same age, 10 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 3: seventy four, but Jean's a New York four. She's got 11 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 3: that city girl edge. 12 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: My name is Jean Anne Lebec, and I am a storyteller. 13 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 3: The sex question, it's big for Jean because she was 14 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 3: married for forty one years and she expected to stay 15 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 3: married forever. But right before the city went into lockdown, 16 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 3: her marriage dissolved, and it's taken her about three years 17 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 3: to get to this point. 18 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 2: The truth is, I don't want to marry anything. I'm 19 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 2: not looking for that, and I don't want to live 20 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: with anybody. I'm not looking for that. 21 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 3: But she is craving something. It's some form of intimacy. 22 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 4: Okay. 23 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: So my daughter is my biggest support and fan, and 24 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 2: when I've told her these stories about you know, guys 25 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 2: who just really want to sex text to they don't 26 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: really want to go further than that. 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 4: All the weird men that I have had a date with. 28 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 2: Just okay, Now here's where we're at right now. I 29 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 2: think what you need to do is call up in 30 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: court service. 31 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 3: That's right. It's early on a Saturday morning. I am 32 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 3: barely awake, haven't even had my cup of coffee, and 33 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I'm hearing her right, Like, is this 34 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 3: sweet seventy four year old woman really asking permission to 35 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: hire somebody? 36 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 5: You're there, and it's a very clear cut relationship, you know, 37 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 5: hire them for four hours. 38 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 3: I don't know if an astrologer can help with that. 39 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 3: I don't know if any astrologer has ever been asked 40 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 3: whether it's the right time to hire an escort. 41 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 6: But we're about to find out. 42 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 3: From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast, I'm Monga's Shatika thear Welcome 43 00:02:52,639 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 3: to Skyline Drive Chapter one, pound Cake and Chemo. So 44 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 3: let's talk a second about Jean's question and questions like these. Well, 45 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 3: I ever have a partner that feels safe and secure. 46 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 3: Why do scorpios get such a bad wrap. 47 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 7: I'm kind of curious how many dogs I will have 48 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 7: in my life? 49 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: Is it insane to consider trying to be a stand 50 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: up comedian as. 51 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 7: A man who is rapidly balding? 52 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 3: Will any of my hair ever grow back? That's what 53 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 3: the show was supposed to be, finding people with questions 54 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 3: I'd never think to ask, pairing them with an astrologer, 55 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 3: then generally having a good time. And I was going 56 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 3: to take this anthropological view of it all like stand back, 57 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 3: watch without judgment, try to understand and enjoy. But just 58 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 3: as our production was about to get off the ground, 59 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 3: I traveled to Queen's to get a reading from a 60 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 3: random astrologer. And that astrologer he warned me that my 61 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 3: dad's health would soon take a drastic turn. Within twenty minutes, 62 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 3: my dad had emailed me that the cancer had spread 63 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 3: through his liver. So now a few days later, I'm 64 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 3: in Kanye's, Georgia. Kanye's is mostly famous for being a 65 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 3: speed trap on the road between Atlanta and Athens, and 66 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 3: my parents settled here because my dad took a job 67 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 3: down the road a few years back, but little else 68 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 3: that would have drawn them here, Like there are strip 69 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 3: malls and waffle houses, banks, targets, and then these quiet 70 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 3: winding roads that veer off it with names like Christian Circle. 71 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 3: The doctor's office is tucked away on one of these 72 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 3: winding roads, and we're waiting for the doctor in a 73 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 3: little exam room. It's actually the way my dad wants it. 74 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 3: All of us here, my mom, sister, me, and I'm 75 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 3: a little surprised when the doctor walks in and he's Indian. 76 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 8: So the pathology report still says preliminary. 77 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 3: I didn't know that they had more of us out 78 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 3: in conyers. I like him immediately. He seems to really 79 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 3: know and care about my dad, and he's concerned for 80 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 3: us too, But when he starts, it's clear the news 81 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 3: isn't good. 82 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 7: Show that. 83 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 9: Then Dialima was started by small tumors, numerous tumors, Bawns. 84 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 3: It turns out it's an aggressive small self cancer. It's 85 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 3: going to need an aggressive response. 86 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 8: The painting is okay, but your disease is behaving way 87 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 8: too press Now it's wonderful. 88 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 3: I've turned on my voice recorder, not for podcasting, but 89 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 3: because I'm feeling lightheaded. Uneasy about how much of this 90 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 3: information I'll retain, and so far it sounds like the 91 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 3: chemo can only do so much. 92 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 9: Why did I say it's not that great news? Because 93 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 9: small SI lung cancer is notorious not to stay in 94 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 9: control with chemotherapy. It goes away, but it comes right back. 95 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 9: So not a good diagnosis at all, but very treatable 96 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 9: in its current situation. 97 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 3: This whole thing is basically cancer. Whack them all. You 98 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 3: can bat the cancer back, cheer a little, and then 99 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 3: start again until time runs out. The only time I 100 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 3: smile is when my dad asks timidly, oh, yes. 101 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 4: I've heard that medical Mario and I can help. 102 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 3: With And I think I remember my friend Howard when 103 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 3: his dad got cancer. Howard got him a pound cake 104 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 3: loaded with THHC and they spent the night laughing as 105 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 3: his dad shared memories along with these ridiculous life goals, 106 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 3: like how his one regret as a young man in 107 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 3: China was that he'd never taken a shit on the 108 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 3: doorstep of the French embassy. Anyway, I daydreamed a little 109 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: about sourcing some edibles and playing my dad's favorite records 110 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 3: as we chat through the night before I hear this you. 111 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 8: Really don't want tellily parents to be dealing with metastatic 112 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 8: cancer three hundred miles away. It's just not invariably, no 113 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 8: matter how smold the treatment, as Lonely martins. 114 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 3: In the best case scenario, we'll get three to four 115 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 3: more years with my dad. That's if the treatment takes. 116 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 3: It's something to hope for. But it's more likely we'll 117 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 3: get three to four months. The thing is, there's no 118 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 3: time to waste. A nurse wheels my dad to a 119 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 3: different wing to begin the chemo immediately. My mom's trying 120 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 3: to be brave, but she's still dazed. I tug at 121 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 3: her arm and hold it as we walk to the car. 122 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 3: Everything is daunting, but it also feels manageable. So instead 123 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 3: of worrying, I focus on our wish list. My dad 124 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 3: still speaks some Portuguese from his childhood in Goa, and 125 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 3: I know he wants to see Lisbon. I know he 126 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 3: wants to see his grandkids more. He wants to see 127 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 3: my sister get married. So I'm thinking, what can I do? 128 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 3: What money do we need? How can I move my 129 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 3: schedule around? Four months is not a lot of time, 130 00:08:44,880 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 3: but I'm going to make it feel like enough Chapter two, 131 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 3: Secrets and Lies. 132 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 4: I lived in a family with a lot of secrets. 133 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 3: Secrets are the thing that shaped Jean, and I have 134 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 3: a feeling, it's what's driven her to tell these beautiful, 135 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 3: unvarnished stories about herself. Inside her place, past the entry 136 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 3: and the kitchen doorway and the hallway lined with photos, 137 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 3: there's a living room filled with vintage furniture stuff you'd 138 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 3: cover it from your favorite thrift store. Jane tells me 139 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 3: to sit anywhere, make myself comfortable, and so I do, 140 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 3: first on this bright, beautiful sofa, and then on an 141 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 3: ottoman just a little closer, doer. 142 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: I grew up right here in Brooklyn, matt and bay Ridge, 143 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: Button Crown Hearts, which is now a groovy, groovy place 144 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 2: to live, But during those days it was a hard 145 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: working Irish Catholic neighborhood and we were the only Jewish families. 146 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 3: Kids playing marbles, why nickel, hanging out on studs, running 147 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 3: around the neighborhood until the lamp posts flicker and you 148 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 3: just know it's time to raise home. It all sounds 149 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 3: so idyllic, but her childhood was also cloaked in something 150 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 3: darker because of her parents' political leanings. 151 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 2: We lived this kind of life of secrets and lives. 152 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 2: They couldn't tell anybody they were American Communists. They couldn't 153 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 2: tell anybody they knew. Julison Ethel Rosenberg. 154 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 7: Run for me, oh refresher on. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. 155 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 3: Julius Rosenberg a Taurus and Ethel Rosenberg a Libra, met 156 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 3: and fell in love at the Young Communist League. 157 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 7: When Torres and libre come together in a love affair, 158 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 7: it can be the unification of two halves of a whole. 159 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 3: Julius had a steady job working for the Army Signal 160 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 3: Corps as an engineer, but he was fired for being a. 161 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 7: Socialist Communism What is it? 162 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 3: Who are the apostles of a system that attempts to 163 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 3: destroy the American way of life? In the nineteen forties 164 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 3: and fifties, a communist panic swept across America, set off 165 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 3: by a Scorpio named Senator Joseph McCarthy. McCarthy was known 166 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 3: for his wild and sensational attacks. 167 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 10: The Scorpio zodiac sign concerns itself with beginnings and endings 168 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 10: and is unafraid of either. They also travel in a 169 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 10: world that is black and white and has little use 170 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 10: for gray. 171 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,839 Speaker 3: At the time, Hollywood directors, prominent politicians, and government insiders 172 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 3: were terrified for their lives and careers. In nineteen fifty, 173 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 3: the couple was put on trial for passing atomic secrets 174 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 3: to the Soviets. The Rosenbergs claimed innocence, but they still 175 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 3: got the electric chair. The man who prosecuted them, a 176 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 3: twenty three year old pisces named Roy Kohane. One witness 177 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 3: from the trial, tried to take back his testimony. He 178 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 3: said the reason he lied on the stand was because 179 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 3: con had threatened to lock up his wife and make 180 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 3: life hell for his family. 181 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 7: Many people associate pisces with dreams and secrets. As a 182 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 7: mutable sign. 183 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 10: ICs holds a damptist, fluid and sheep shifting quality. 184 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 3: Anyway, back to Gene, it makes sense that her family 185 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 3: hid the fact that they were close with the Rosenbergs, 186 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 3: but that wasn't the only secret they were hiding. 187 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 2: My sister's gay Being gay during those times was really 188 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 2: a horrifying thing. And I remember when she told me 189 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,719 Speaker 2: she was gay, I thought this was the greatest thing 190 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,839 Speaker 2: I ever heard, and she was like, you can I 191 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,479 Speaker 2: tell us so nobody can know about. 192 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 3: This like being Communist, being Jewish, being gay was just 193 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 3: another thing she couldn't talk about. As she's telling me 194 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 3: about her past, it makes more sense why Jean's welcomed 195 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 3: me in why she's agreed to talk. The thing is, 196 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 3: Gene is a total romantic. 197 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 2: One of my favorite stories that I told was the 198 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 2: time I had my first orgasm. I had been married, 199 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 2: I had a baby, and still didn't know my own body. 200 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 3: It's the nineteen seventies and Geine is in her twenties, 201 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 3: a single mom with a kid. She had briefly been 202 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 3: married to her high school sweetheart, and now she's working 203 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 3: at this daycare center where she has this colleague named Mona, 204 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 3: and they are a lot alike. They're both putting themselves 205 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 3: through school in the evenings. They both have little girls 206 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 3: that are the same age. 207 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: We formed this friendship with each other, and then one 208 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 2: night we went to see this movie and we're sitting 209 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 2: in the car and she looks at me and says, 210 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 2: you know, I really feel like kissing you. 211 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 4: I said, so kiss. 212 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 3: That kiss was like fireworks. 213 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 4: I mean, Mona and I had been intimate, but I 214 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 4: never had an orgasm. 215 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 2: After this orgasm, she put on candles and everything, and 216 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 2: she looked at me and said, you know, sweetie, you 217 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 2: could do this anytime you want. 218 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 4: I mean, the whole idea of that kind of power. 219 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 11: And so. 220 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 4: I begin to be kind of a crazy masturbator, you know. 221 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 12: I would like go to my job at the daycare center, 222 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 12: and it was lunchtime, NiFe went back, and so it 223 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 12: was this whole description of just feeling giddy with this 224 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 12: kind of new fountain me. 225 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 3: Mona would move away not long after leaving the city, 226 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 3: but it wasn't long before Jeane would fall in love again. 227 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 3: In fact, in some ways, her next love would hit 228 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 3: her even harder. Here's a story she told at the Moth. 229 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: It's assembly day and I am so nervous. My class 230 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: is putting on a play for the entire school, and 231 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 2: I'm walking down the auditorium the center aisle carrying all 232 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: these props. And takes my hand to help me navigate 233 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 2: up the stage steps, and my hand melts into his, 234 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 2: and his hand melts into mine. Our fingers linger, never 235 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: wanting to let go. And as Miss. 236 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 4: Hall crosses the stage to go to. 237 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: The piano, and kids are getting their assembly seats, and 238 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 2: the ring is beating against the window. 239 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 4: We fall madly in. 240 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 3: Love Geane and that teacher I don't want. They get married, 241 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: raise their daughter together, and then a son too. They 242 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:27,119 Speaker 3: become grandparents together, and then one morning, forty one years later. 243 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 4: Over coffee, said I'm leaving. 244 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 3: Her husband came clean about another woman he'd been seeing, 245 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 3: But it wasn't long before Jean realized there were more. 246 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: He was having copious amounts of affairs. It was almost 247 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: like a house of cards fell down. He's an expert 248 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 2: con man. He swept me off my feet. It was 249 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: almost like that love that you know you think you're 250 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: never ever going to find again, and then it all 251 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 2: just kind of crash and I had to kind of 252 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: weed through the betrayal. 253 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 3: It didn't take much detective work for Gane to realize 254 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 3: he'd been cheating since the start of their relationship, with friends, colleagues, 255 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 3: random women along the way. Jean was heartbroken. She still is, 256 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 3: and it's tainted the way she looks at the. 257 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: Past, because I see a happy family, but I think, 258 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 2: was he involved with this woman then? 259 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 4: Or who is he involved with? 260 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 3: Then? Jeane is done grieving. She no longer wants to 261 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 3: look backwards. 262 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 4: What is this next? 263 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 2: Journey about for myself because I feel like I'm at 264 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 2: the brink of something. 265 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 4: I just don't know what the break is. I don't 266 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 4: know what something is. 267 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 3: The truth is, Jean does not believe in astrology. She's 268 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 3: had opportunities before to have her chart read, but she's 269 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 3: never really seen the point. 270 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 2: You know, my sister was into astrology, but you know, 271 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 2: we all thought it was bullshit, you know, and I 272 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 2: always thought, like, please have a glass of wine, relax, 273 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 2: it's more meaningful than this. 274 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 3: But that was then Today, at seventy four, Jean recognizes 275 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 3: how precious her time is over and over. She tells me, 276 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 3: I've got ten years, ten good years to drink in 277 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 3: all the richness of life already. 278 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 1: Told you lying even down. 279 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 3: And if there's any chance that astrology can unlock that secret, 280 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 3: she's open to it. Oh, and there's still the matter 281 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 3: of the escorts. More on that after the break. Chapter three. 282 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 3: Wheels that Work. 283 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 13: You know, I don't think humans hang on two things 284 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 13: that don't work, Like the wheel is awesome, like we 285 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 13: still use it. We don't say, oh, this wheel is 286 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 13: out of date, Like no, it's functional, right. So that's 287 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 13: the same thing with astrology, Like we don't study this 288 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 13: stuff because it doesn't work. 289 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 3: Over the summer, my friends and I started the search 290 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 3: for a house astrologer for this show. We thought hard 291 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 3: about using doctor Kamar, but I was reluctant. Looking back, 292 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 3: it's obvious why doctor Kamar's predictions had set off a 293 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 3: chain of events that I just needed to compartmentalize away 294 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 3: from this show. I needed a different experience, and Janelle 295 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 3: Belgrave is definitely that. She is sunny and relentlessly encouraging, 296 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 3: and the first time I chatted with her, I was 297 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 3: smiling the whole time, like I love the way she 298 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 3: peppered the conversation with this secret knowledge of just how 299 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 3: pervasive astrology is. 300 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 13: If you don't think there are multi billionaires using astrology 301 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 13: to get ahead, let me tell you something. 302 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 3: They're out there. I mean, that's what my whole show 303 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 3: was supposed to peek into, but it was actually something 304 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 3: more than that. As my little team of skeptics here 305 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 3: talked about the production, we decided that using Janelle almost 306 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 3: seemed faded. Like when Mary Amitra set out to find 307 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 3: an astrologer for the show, they independently made lists and somehow, 308 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 3: not only did they both find Janelle, but they both 309 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 3: had her as their top choice, so we chalked it 310 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 3: up to destiny and rolled with it. Janelle's real New 311 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 3: York too, She's from Queen's and her parents are immigrants 312 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 3: from Panama. Janelle's doesn't sugarcoat things, so when I asked 313 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 3: her about the birthdate for the show and the show's timing, well, 314 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 3: let's just say she was less optimistic than doctor Kamar, 315 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 3: who told me this show was going to be a 316 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 3: mega hit. 317 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 14: So you guys said that it was May sixteenth, nine 318 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 14: thirty nine am in Brooklyn. 319 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 7: New York. 320 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 14: Correct, Yeah, yeah, right, okay, right, okay, So you guys 321 00:19:55,240 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 14: are a Torus sun, a cancer rising moon in Sagittarius. 322 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 14: You guys planned this right under an eclipse, which is 323 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 14: really interesting, not necessarily bad, but eclipse energy can be 324 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 14: very volatile, right. 325 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 3: I guess I've got a temper my expectations. But even 326 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 3: when Janelle's prepping you for a turbulent time ahead, I 327 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 3: like how she's still encouraging. 328 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 13: You're starting under a lot of retrogrades, and that's okay, 329 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 13: but you just have to know that you can have 330 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 13: to be patient use that to your benefit. 331 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 3: Now, this isn't aside. But last year I started giving 332 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 3: monsterra plants away to people who have been going through 333 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 3: hard things. It is a super instagrammable plant, but that's 334 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 3: not why I like it. The monster is unusual. If 335 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 3: left in the dark, exhibit something called negative phototropism, where 336 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 3: all the new stems will actually grow into the darkness. 337 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 3: It's a clever trick. In the jungle, darkness signals the 338 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 3: presence of a larger tree, so the monster trusts that 339 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 3: it can lean into the shadows and pool all of 340 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 3: its energy into climbing that trunk because it believes sunlight 341 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 3: will come. I like that reminder because I've needed that reminder. 342 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 3: And that's what's so great about Janelle. The beauty She's 343 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 3: found in reminding people that hope still exists. 344 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 13: There's always hope in the darkest moments of our life. 345 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 13: And when you look back and say, yeah, there was 346 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 13: that some person that came to me that day and 347 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 13: said something, and that was the thing I needed to 348 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 13: get to the next day, and that next day was miraculous. 349 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 3: There's a joy in pairing up a couple you have 350 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 3: a good feeling about. Gene is so clearly yearning and 351 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 3: I wanted to witness what magic might come out when 352 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 3: you put Jeanne and Janelle and all their stars and 353 00:21:48,400 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 3: their stories in a room together. Chapter four. You don't 354 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 3: want to waste a minute. It's months before I see 355 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 3: Gene again. We are sitting in our apartment. This time 356 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 3: it's my producer, Mitra and me, and we've set up 357 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 3: a consult with Janelle. But twenty minutes in, everything is 358 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 3: going wrong. Sound Waves are flashing across the laptop, but 359 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 3: apparently it hasn't been taping. Worse, the backup recorder got jammed, 360 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 3: and then our batteries died. It's like this taping is jens. 361 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 3: Of course, Janelle doesn't miss a beat. She makes a 362 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 3: crack about eclipses and the universe, showing us just how 363 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 3: real astrology is, and she reminds us that if we've 364 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 3: tried this a few days from now, everything would have 365 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 3: gone smoothly. We all laugh, but we try again. 366 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 14: Okay, so where should we start? 367 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 3: In my head, I'm screaming escorts. We've got to talk 368 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 3: about courts. If you listen to the tape from fifteen 369 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 3: minutes ago, it is all static, but what you would 370 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 3: have heard? What I wish we still had was the 371 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 3: discussion and where it began. Before Jean had even said 372 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 3: the word escort, Janelle basically said, Jeane, your chart is 373 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 3: telling me that you're meant to go enjoy yourself. The 374 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 3: universe wants you to enjoy yourself. So go on dates, 375 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 3: go on hikes, go have sex, Go do the things 376 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 3: that feel fun. But I don't have that tape because 377 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 3: I started this show in an eclipse, and somehow it's 378 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 3: easier to tell myself that to make that the excuse 379 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 3: than to stop Gene from taking the conversation in the 380 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 3: direction she needs it to go. 381 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 5: I have been feeling like I'm on the edge of something, 382 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 5: but I don't know what that looks like. 383 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 14: Huh, I gotcha, Okay, Sash. 384 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 13: She wanted to take you back to your last new 385 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 13: moon that you had, though basically this is just to 386 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 13: show you that there's no such thing as like linear 387 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 13: time in astrology. So when we are at a new 388 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 13: moon phase in our life, it's when we're starting a 389 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 13: brand new chapter. We've ended one chapter. Okay, So back 390 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 13: in twenty eleven, April twenty eleven, you had a new 391 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 13: moon happen in your progressed chart at nineteen. 392 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 14: Degrees of aris. So if you can think back to 393 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 14: what was happening in your life in twenty eleven, I. 394 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 15: Can tell you I know exactly what was happening because 395 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 15: that was so I can't believe you just said that. 396 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 11: I'm blown away. 397 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 14: Really Okay, hold that thought, don't game. Don't give it 398 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 14: away just yet. So I want us to kind of 399 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 14: flow through it. So back then you plant it seas right, 400 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 14: then you're going to track the moon. 401 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 3: As she continues, Janelle traces her cursor over the flow 402 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 3: of the moon through Jane's sign, and she shows her 403 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 3: how the moon is moved with her over the years. 404 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 14: So around probably, I would say twenty sixteen or so 405 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 14: is when things probably got a little bit rocky, especially 406 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 14: when it came to marriage. Oh yeah, so September of 407 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 14: twenty nineteen maybe would have been a time where things 408 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 14: might have got a little bit tough. 409 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 11: Oh my god, yeah, I have the chills. I do 410 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 11: have the chills. 411 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 13: To show you how astrology works, to show you the timing. 412 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 13: So we're seeing this moon hit with Pluto, right, so 413 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 13: possibly endings, deaths, changes, transformations, endings, endings. 414 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 3: The scene reminds me of what my friend Pete the 415 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 3: rock star astrologer told me this concept of Joe TISHMATI 416 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 3: what you're going for in a great reading, like that 417 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 3: shared connection between astrologer and the person being read, passing 418 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 3: the light of awareness. 419 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 11: I'm really sitting here completely overwhelmed. 420 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 15: I have to tell you because when you, let's say 421 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 15: a specific thing like September, you know, twenty nineteen, September 422 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 15: twenty fifth, twenty nineteen, looked me in the face and said, bye. 423 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 11: Bye, I'm leaving you for another woman. And so that's 424 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 11: a month. 425 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 15: That's a time I don't really no one really knows, like, oh, 426 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 15: that happened. 427 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 11: But then when you just said it was like you 428 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 11: did not just say that, but. 429 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 14: Yeah, right. Sometimes it's very literal. Pluto is the planet, 430 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 14: that's the planet of death and transformation and saying this 431 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 14: is the end. 432 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 3: I'm watching the two of them, and it's clear something 433 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 3: has clicked. In just a few minutes. Gene is transformed 434 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 3: from this person who is I guess, willing to give 435 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 3: astrology a chance, to someone who's sitting on her hands 436 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,959 Speaker 3: to stop herself from waving them so excitedly. Despite the screen, 437 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 3: there is an intensity between them. Every month or date 438 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 3: Janelle throws out seems to provoke this avalanche of memories, 439 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,719 Speaker 3: and each time Gene is about to let out this 440 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 3: rush of words like just let them spill it from 441 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 3: her mouth, Janelle smiles like a chest Shire cat and 442 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 3: she tells her to hold it in just a little more. 443 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 3: Janelle is confident there's power and astrology. She's felt it 444 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 3: for decades now, but in this moment, that power is 445 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 3: so clear. It's animating every dopamine receptor in Jean's brain 446 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 3: and she is buzzing, glowing with electricity. 447 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 13: I know, but I have two and a half years 448 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 13: to make use of this energy. I have to do 449 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 13: it otherwise it's not going to come back for another 450 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 13: fourteen years. 451 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 7: Right. 452 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 14: I don't want to have to waste that time, right exactly. 453 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 11: No, I don't. 454 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 5: I at seventy four, you don't want to waste a minute. 455 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 3: About the gully Gully pay not just a heart of 456 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 3: bunny to get you job headed off. Chapter five, A 457 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 3: Couch with a View. My sister's a psychologist, a PhD. 458 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 3: And we have this line we use about Indians. It's 459 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 3: okay to be a psychiatrist, but it's not okay to 460 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 3: see a psychiatrist. Years ago, when my wife and I 461 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 3: were looking into international adoption from India, the forms indicated 462 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 3: that if you'd ever seen a psychiatrist, you'd be disqualified 463 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 3: from adopting. I'm ashamed to admit that for years it 464 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 3: kept me from seeing a grief counselor. I mean, along 465 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 3: with all the other stresses of life. I lost a 466 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 3: cousin to a suicide and a best friend to an overdose, 467 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 3: and I struggled. I was a shell of myself. The 468 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 3: truth is, in those years, I was not a great 469 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 3: dad or a great husband, and I could have used 470 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 3: the therapy, but I also didn't want to limit our 471 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 3: options as potential parents anyway. For Indians, including the Indian government, 472 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 3: the stigma is real. So things like religion and astrology 473 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 3: they fill the gap and it makes sense right. Astrology 474 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 3: allows you to put a symbol on something that's hard 475 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,479 Speaker 3: to name and to reframe your problems from a different lens. 476 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 3: It's therapy for people who just don't want to go 477 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 3: to therapy. But what happens when those notions are flipped, 478 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 3: Like what if your therapist was secretly powering their sessions, 479 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 3: using the stars to amplify their understanding of you, because 480 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 3: that's what Ava does. 481 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 16: Oh my god, I feel like I'm a little bashful. 482 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 11: I'm a licensed therapist. 483 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 3: Ava, which is not her real name, is a successful 484 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 3: trauma therapist from the Midwest, and she's keenly aware of 485 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 3: the baggage that astrology carries. 486 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 16: Do I worry if I bring it up people don't 487 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 16: take me seriously. Of course, for younger clients, I think 488 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 16: it's kind of almost a way of connecting. But yeah, 489 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 16: my clients who are older, it's a little bit more 490 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 16: of a finesse. 491 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 3: So before she dives in with a new client, she 492 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 3: floats a few questions to see just how open she 493 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 3: can be with them. 494 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 16: It's something that I kind of test the waters to 495 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 16: see are they into astrology? Is it something they're not 496 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 16: at into right? And if they are, it's wonderful because 497 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 16: we can fold that into our understanding, like holy shit, 498 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 16: like Saturn and Mars are being transited by Saturn. That, 499 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 16: from what you're telling me, that makes a lot of sense. 500 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 3: Of course, even when they're not into astrology, AVA still 501 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 3: keeps an eye on their chart. 502 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 16: I still have their birthdays. I can see where their 503 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 16: planets are, which isn't to say that that changes how 504 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 16: I show up to them. My number one job is 505 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 16: to be here with the client therapy, existing in this 506 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 16: world of diagnoses and insurance and all these things that 507 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 16: are trying to make it be short and get people 508 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 16: back to work and make people legible in this really 509 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 16: fucked up system. Right, So much of that is not 510 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 16: helpful in the actual work of therapy. But I think 511 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 16: astrology just it allows me to kind of ground back 512 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 16: into the trust of having this big perspective in this 513 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 16: small perspective. At the same time. 514 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 3: There are so many people who see therapy and astrology 515 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 3: at odds with one another, but Ava, she hopes there's 516 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 3: new ways about thinking about both because both have the 517 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 3: ability to give you agency. I mean, isn't that what 518 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 3: we go to therapy for. Isn't that what we want 519 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 3: from astrology, to access perspectives big and small, because so 520 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 3: much of what we're looking for is someone to tell 521 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 3: us what really matters, what we can set aside, and 522 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 3: to teach us what to spend our precious time on. 523 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 16: This idea of human progress is linear just boggles my mind, Like, 524 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 16: what the heck? 525 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 11: That makes no sense to me? 526 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 16: And with astrology it is not at all. Right, planets 527 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 16: are coming into. 528 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 3: Places and then going back, and you're like, this is. 529 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 16: So frustrating, and I'm back to where I was, and 530 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 16: then it moves forward again. 531 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 3: De Ava, There's something very human about acknowledging that in 532 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 3: the fog of healing, things are often more complicated than 533 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 3: just trying to move forward. 534 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 16: We are trying to understand things that are beyond comprehension 535 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 16: in some ways. Right, how humbling to know that we 536 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 16: don't always have to I think that astrology and trauma 537 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 16: therapy really hold that capacity in a really beautiful way. 538 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 3: Chapter six, Mike Check, Jeane and I sat in her 539 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 3: apartment after the reading and we talked for a while. 540 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 3: What's spinning in your head? Like, what are you thinking about? 541 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 5: First? 542 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 4: I feel I don't know if I could could. I 543 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 4: feel stoned on my mind. 544 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 2: I feel as though I want some acid trip or something. 545 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 3: Coming into this reading. I thought we'd devote a good 546 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 3: bit of conversation to the salaciousness and fond of hiring 547 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 3: an escort, but so much of this, to me felt 548 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 3: like Jane just needed to be seen what she needed 549 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 3: from the astrologer and what she actually wanted from the 550 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 3: escort was the same thing. She needed someone from the 551 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 3: outside world to remind her just how much she mattered. 552 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 2: I think what was most empowering about this for me 553 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 2: was at seventy four and living alone, you often feel 554 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 2: very invisible, you know you do. And it's like I 555 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 2: say to myself, oh my god, I could die right now. 556 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 2: No one's even gonna know, you know, that kind of feeling. 557 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 2: And what she did by saying, hey, wait, you know 558 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 2: this is what's happening. I mean I could not repeat 559 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 2: now to the moon in the house and the but 560 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 2: there was an overall sense of you are part of 561 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 2: the flow of the energy of the earth, my dear, 562 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 2: and you are on a ride, you know, and you 563 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 2: have been since you were born, and you will continue. 564 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 2: And so by saying you have the power to do that, 565 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 2: it was like I'm not invisible, you know, I'm not 566 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 2: and I and that was that was very big. 567 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 3: I'm envious of Gene because whatever you think of astrology, 568 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 3: she got to feel seen and then she had the 569 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 3: luxury of time to process it, to decide for herself 570 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 3: what she wanted to take out of it and what 571 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 3: she wants the rest of her life to be. It's 572 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 3: a gift. On May seventh, twenty twenty two, exactly a 573 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 3: month after I got a warning about my father's health 574 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 3: in the form of a reading, he passed away. I 575 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 3: won't tell you the details yet. I'm just not ready, 576 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,399 Speaker 3: but I will tell you this. That list I made 577 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 3: for my dad, we hardly got through it, and all 578 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 3: that time I thought I'd been promised, it slipped through 579 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 3: my clenched fist. Sitting in Jean's room, listening to this 580 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 3: talk of moons and whether this is the close of 581 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 3: a chapter or just another middle I am not present. 582 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 3: But before I can slip too far away, adjust my hand, 583 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 3: she moves the mic I'm holding just a hair away 584 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 3: from my face. But that touch, it pulls me back 585 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 3: into the moment, and then it makes me smile, because 586 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 3: whatever else I've been through, I am so lucky to 587 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 3: be here to get to work on projects. I love 588 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 3: to meet people like Gene. And as much as my 589 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 3: days now will be divided between longing for a past 590 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 3: that I cannot have and divining what the future can be, 591 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 3: I know she's right when she says things. 592 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 4: This is the only moment. 593 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 2: This is the only moment, and no other moment will 594 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 2: be greater or lessn It's just this is the moment. 595 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 3: Next week, we tackle an unsolved mystery in the Reagan 596 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 3: White House. 597 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 7: President for you continue to allow us. Drama need to 598 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 7: play a part of the makeup of your rock it 599 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 7: off man. 600 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 3: So did Ronald Reagan use astrology to guide his foreign policy? Also, 601 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 3: we get distracted watch on Saturday Morning Cartoons. We dig 602 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 3: up some televangelist beef, we learn about Boris Yelson's late 603 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 3: night cravings, and we find an incredible gem hiding in 604 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 3: an old Johnny Carson Cliff. 605 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 6: It's eighties week here on Skyline Drive, so be sure 606 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 6: to tune in. Thank you so much for listening. 607 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 3: Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcast. 608 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 3: This show is hosted and written by me Mongaish articular. 609 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,399 Speaker 3: But the show it would be a bad idea sitting 610 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 3: in a drawer somewhere if it were not for all 611 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 3: these incredible people. Mary Philip Sandy is just the best. 612 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 3: She's our supervising producer, and I don't know how she 613 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 3: pulled us off with everything else going on. Nietscha Binshahi 614 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,439 Speaker 3: Senior produced this whole thing and brought the delightful Gene 615 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,720 Speaker 3: lebec into our world. Mark Lotto is such a mench 616 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 3: and story editor who really made this whole story incredible. 617 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 3: This episode was also produced and mixed by the wonderful 618 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 3: Anna Rubinova. Thank you so much, Anna, with scoring as 619 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 3: always from Botany. Check out a SoundCloud the insane music 620 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 3: in between. 621 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,439 Speaker 17: This courtesy of a Zadi Records, Ragender Himanshusuri, Monsoon Ciren. 622 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 3: And also Peter Matthew Bauer. This song playing right now 623 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 3: is off his beautiful new album Flowers. If you want 624 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 3: to hear all of this music, we linked to a 625 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 3: mixtape in the show notes. Oh my gosh, the fifties 626 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 3: narration so funny, right that was Adam Bozar. Thank you 627 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 3: so much, Adam for doing that Rosenberg section and making 628 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 3: me laugh so hard. Also, ology descriptions come from astrology 629 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 3: dot Com. Jeene's story about falling in love is from 630 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 3: the Moth. Go download their wonderful show immediately. Additional production 631 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 3: and research support from the wonderful through Chivarrao, Lizzie Jacobs, 632 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 3: who is my wife and my rock, my superstar aunt, 633 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 3: somanaka the Womanuka Bukshi, and my cousin Arjinbucschi who helped 634 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 3: me out of a giant pickle. This show is executive 635 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 3: produced from iHeart by my good pals Nikki Mutour and 636 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 3: Katrina Norvel. Also got to thank my partners from Kaleidoscope 637 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 3: just the best team Oswolshen Kate Osborne Costas Linos and 638 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 3: the super dynamic Vahini Shori who made the crazy sweet 639 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:45,280 Speaker 3: Kalajah my family on instaks viny my mom loved it special. 640 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 3: Thanks to all the kiddos who bore with us through 641 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 3: this production. All my friends at iHeart, Shanta and Sara, 642 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 3: my family everywhere, my pal Holly Fry who read this 643 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 3: episode's warning. If you haven't listened to stuff you missed 644 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 3: in the history class. 645 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 17: You're missing out, or you can check out her excellent 646 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,359 Speaker 17: podcast Criminalia go down her boat immediately. And just one 647 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 17: last thank you as always to my Amma and my 648 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 17: dad Lalita Enimation Ticular, who I thank my lucky stars for. 649 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 6: Thank you all for listening. 650 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 4: That's your friends, It's where you grew up. Oh they're 651 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 4: not your friends, It's where you grew up.