WEBVTT - Ep 13 Don't Tread on my Monkshood: Crossover w/ IDOP 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:18.959 Hi, and welcome to this podcast Will Kill You Crossover Edition. 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.480 I'm Aaron Welsh and I'm eron Aman Updank and this. 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.840 Week we are joined by our good friend and fellow 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:29.640 podcaster Matt Kindaeus. 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:33.720 Say Hi, Matt, Hi, Matt, I should never have done that. 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:36.440 I'm ashamed of myself already. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.839 No, it's perfect. So Matt is a fellow grad student 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:44.320 and host of the incredible podcast In Defensive Plants. You, Matt, 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:46.840 can you introduce yourself a bit and talk a little 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:48.400 bit about what your podcast does. 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.000 Yeah, I'm Matt Candeis and I host In Defensive Plants. 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:56.040 It is a weekly podcast that essentially is there to 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:58.640 cure what we call plant blindness. And by we, I 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:00.800 just mean people that like plants. 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:02.600 We suffer from plant line. 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.240 Yeah, a lot of the world does. And it's not 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:07.880 a fault. It's just the way our species is programmed. 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:11.360 But that's why the podcast exists, and I think that's 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.240 the niche it's feeling, is to celebrate plants and get 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:16.640 people excited, maybe not obsessed. You don't have to become 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.840 obsessed with them, but excitement and just appreciate the botanical 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.520 world because really we wouldn't be here without it, So. 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:24.880 Yeah, that's very true. 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:27.000 It's awesome, and everyone go and check it out in 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:28.040 Defensive Plants. 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:32.039 Well, especially because we're there's going to be another episode, yes, 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:33.640 that will. 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:36.160 Exist, because this is a crossover. 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:38.760 Cross a reciprocal transplant where we're. 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:39.840 Going to be on that podcast. 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.880 That's what I do, that's what I study. 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:47.039 So Matt's joining us this week and then upcoming we 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:52.120 will be joining Matt on his podcast to talk about. 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:52.720 Herbal lism things. 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:56.480 Yeah. Yeah, So there's a lot of i'll call it 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:00.840 mysticism and folklore surrounding herbal remedies. And though I'm not 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.800 a practicing herbalist, I know there's merit to some and 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.240 a lot of misinformation about others. So who better to 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:11.120 bring on than some disease ecologists to talk about the 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.360 wild world of plant medicinals. 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:19.320 So totally in our wheelhouse. We're gonna try, we'll research it. 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.560 Yeah, we're smart people. 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:27.440 Right, Yeah, exactly, that's literally our job. So Matt is 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:31.240 here because this week, as we said, we're doing something 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:35.320 a little bit different. This is part one of a 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:42.760 crossover series on poison. We have at least a four 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:45.760 part series I feel like we could expand it eventually too. Yeah, 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.480 but at a minimum, you've got a four part series 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.080 and each week we're going to talk about a different 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:55.040 poisonous plant. It's used throughout human history, the effects it 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.840 actually has on your body, and then the evolutionary ecology 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:01.639 of the plant, meaning why does it produce the compounds 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:02.360 that make you sick. 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:04.800 It's gonna be super duper fun. 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.160 Yeah, I'm so pumped. Yeah, I can't even contain. Like, 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.200 we were messaging back and forth about this and I 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:14.360 was like, I'm like, yes, I know. 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.400 It was really hard to not go, oh my gosh, 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:18.560 I guess I just learned. You have to know about this. 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.800 It's so cool. Yeah, so very exciting. 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:26.280 This allows me to stretch some muscles that I don't 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.440 ever get to stretch. It's it's not a wheelhouse, I frequent. 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.320 So thanks being open to this idea. 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:32.960 I love it. 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:37.320 We're pumped. Okay, So, because this is an episode of 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:40.520 this podcast, will kill you. Guess what we have. 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:44.320 A quarantine any time? A quarantiney time. 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:46.840 What do we have this week? 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:50.800 This week we're drinking the wolf Spin potion. Yeah, because 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:52.200 we're talking about what plant. 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:58.920 Well, it's a bunch of plants, but monkshood essentially in 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:00.640 the genus acnodum. 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.960 Fabulous, which also contains the plant wolf spain, right, or 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:04.960 is that a different plant? 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:06.760 Well? Was it the same plant? 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:08.000 Plant blindness at work? 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:11.440 Yeah, first, lesson common names are are kind of a 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.800 pain In the end, a lot of plants can be 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.680 called the same thing and be called many different things 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:21.200 throughout different cultures. So essentially this is in the buttercup family. 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:23.080 So the best example is a buttercup in the United 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:28.760 States is different than a buttercup in England. But when 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.719 you say wolf spain, you're generally referring to a group 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.680 of plants in the genus acnodum. Or the monk SAIDs. 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:38.599 Okay, fabulous, awesome. So but what is in the wolf 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:43.320 Spain potion this week? Yeah? Is it's basically an aviation Yeah, 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:45.320 which if you haven't heard of it, it's a really 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:46.440 delicious drink. 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.320 It's purple, it's beautiful, it's geuz. 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:52.440 I just thought we could nail the jakes too. 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:59.440 But yeah, and and so we'll post the recipe and 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.000 all that online along with some cool pictures. 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:06.120 So what are chills we do need? 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.120 Clink? There we go it was an okay sound, it 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:27.280 wasn't quite crystal. But you know, now that that's out 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:32.800 of the way, yep. Intro is over, I'll get started. 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:36.000 So since we're doing a four parter on this topic, 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.680 I figured I would kind of split the history of 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:44.400 poisons into four parts, so Ancient, Middle Ages, Victorian, and modern. 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:46.680 I don't know if that's going to be how it 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:48.920 ends up being. The boundaries are a little bit fluid, 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.040 but in any case, this week I'll be talking about 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.240 the ancient history of poisons, So who first decided to 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.400 use them, how were they used, what was their reputation? 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.960 And then I'm going to talk specifically about the history 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:06.039 of the chosen poison of the week wolf Spain aka Aconite, 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:10.320 aka Monkshood, et cetera. Turns out this beauty is not 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.760 just the name of the werewolf Preventative and Harry Potter 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:19.159 and are quarantiny. So what's the difference between a physician, 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:23.840 a pretender, a magician and a poisoner? Ooh, The answer 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:28.320 is that it depends. Those lines have always been blurred 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.200 in the history of medicine and medicinal plants, many of 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.000 which have a dual nature of healing. And harm, and 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.120 those lines continue to be blurred in modern times, which 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.559 is something we'll get to talk a lot more about 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:44.320 in the herbal Medicine crossover episode. Yeah, but this week 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:47.360 we're here to talk about poisons. The poisons have been 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.080 around for I thought this was really cool, all of 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:55.680 written human history dang d so Yeah, and also probably 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:57.440 millennia before. 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:01.080 That, I wouldn't done it. Yeah, I mean, you got 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:05.120 to respect the fact that there's something there in human nature. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.640 You don't just invent writing and then start poisoning people. 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.880 Yeah, exactly. That's the really interesting part because like, in 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.240 order to determine what plants are poisonous, what plants are 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:19.640 are helpful, what plants are food, it's going to involve 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:22.160 a lot of trial and error, a lot of barfing, 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:27.800 a lot of numb mouths, hallucinations and death along the way, and. 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:34.400 A big plug for rampant Diary. 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:41.520 I can't believe, thank you. How is anyone alive? Really 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.160 the big question. Imagine that you're one of those early humans. 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:48.400 You can't resort to Google like you can nowadays to 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:52.640 tell you everything about a plant. You can't just watch 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:54.920 what you eat, but you have to remember how it 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.200 made you feel, and you didn't just rely on firsthand 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.840 experience for this knowledge. If you saw a cluster of 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.320 dead birds or foxes or something next to a bush 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.000 filled with red berries, maybe you'd make a note not 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:11.760 to keep those berries. We would hope, we yeah, one 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.520 would hope and yeah. And then also, you know, if 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.720 a friend told you about a digestive experience after feasting 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.240 on a new salad creation, maybe you'd ask them to 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:23.000 point out which plants they use, just like which taco 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.160 bells to avoid, because there are good ones and bad ones, 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:28.480 and the answers you should avoid them all. Yeah, I 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:30.239 mean we're. 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:34.640 Weak, yes, yeah. 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:38.280 And before written language, this knowledge couldn't be stored in 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:40.640 physical form. It had to be disseminated in a much 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.959 different way through storytelling, from one village to another, from 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:47.240 one generation to the next. And slowly this knowledge spread. 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:51.320 But one person's knowledge is another person's weapon, and it 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:55.400 wouldn't have been long before someone would have snuck some 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:59.360 parsley looking hemlock into their rivals side salad. The first 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.120 written record words we have of the use of poisons 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.959 comes from just a little bit after writing itself was 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:08.640 thought to be invented so around five thousand years ago. Wow, 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.440 And we see around that time descriptions of poisonous and 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.440 medicinal plants pop up all over around the same time, 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.640 which is kind of weird in Egyptian papyri, Chinese and 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.359 Indian texts, and Mesopotamian clay tablets. 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:24.280 I mean, is it weird or is it just humans 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:27.040 were doing that? And then they well, we might as 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:27.920 well write this down. 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.600 Well, and like what's more important than like we we 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:33.040 need to eat every day a certain amount. We need 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:34.480 to eat the things that we collect. 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:36.320 And this is how you kill your enemies. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:37.559 Well, and this is. 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:41.719 How you mean there's two families and enough food to 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:42.560 support one of them. 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:47.600 Yeah, so sorry, you guys are going straight to the 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:52.760 how to poison someone's section of that tablet, so our heads, 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:58.720 I mean yeah so. And also, poisons featured prominently in 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.480 Greek and Roman mythology, where it seems like the reputation 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.360 of poison as a woman's weapon had taken hold, which 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:10.480 is really fun. So Dianeira, the second wife of Heracles 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.760 aka Hercules, killed him with a poisoned shirt for being 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:20.720 unfaithful to her deserved it. Yeah, file that under stuff 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.319 Disney left out of the movie, along with the fact 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:27.600 that Hercules driven mad by Hara I Love I Love like. 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:32.320 Disney did not tell you Hercules killed his first wife 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:36.679 and children as you do. We'll get to that leader anyway. 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.720 Side note hercules second wife, the one who killed him. 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:46.480 Her name Dianira means man destroyer or destroyer of her husband. 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:48.840 Okay, if I ever have kids, that's their name. 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:55.280 Also in the Odyssey, Circe, which you know, she's got 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.680 to be evil, right, we know everything, a goddess of 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:02.359 magic uses mind altering drugs to turn all of Odysseus's 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:06.240 men into pigs. Although to what end I have no idea. 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:08.640 Just for fun, I'm bacon. 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:11.400 I don't know. It's really weird though, yeah, I couldn't 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.559 find a reason for that. But jumping from myth into history, 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.240 we see poisons play a huge role in the legal 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:22.040 and political system of ancient Rome, which isn't as boring 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:26.480 as it may sound. Poisons were widely used to carry 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.840 out death sentences, and that's what happened with the famous 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:35.120 philosophers Socrates. So he was convicted of moral corruption and impiety, 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:39.160 and he was ordered to drink a hemlock infusion, and 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.840 there's great paintings of this. There's one where he's like 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.600 angrily in a I don't know bath sheet or toga. 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:47.520 I assume same difference. 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.760 I mean, my experience with toga is frat party only, 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.240 so yeah, it's gotta be a bath shoot. Yeah. Yeah, 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.240 So I'll post some of those paintings because they're really fun. 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:56.920 That's amazing. 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.240 But from this time, which is around three hundred and 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:06.040 ninety nine beasts see around that exact date, poisons seemed 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:10.359 to become increasingly popular in ancient Rome. The Hippocratic oath. 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:12.840 And I'm looking at you Someday. 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:17.320 Written around then, includes the phrase neither will I administer 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.280 a poison to anybody when asked to do so, nor 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:24.360 will I suggest such a course. Interesting. Yeah, it's pretty 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:28.400 clear that poisoning was a problem in physicians. 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:31.280 But even then it goes back to what you originally 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:32.839 said about blurred lines. 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:37.040 Right, I mean, how do you define meety poisonous? 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:42.440 But it is it intent defines the poison. 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:44.960 Really, this is philosophy question. 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:52.040 I mean, too bad. Socrates was killed by a poison. Galen, 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:56.160 who was another famous Greek physician and scholar, instructed doctors 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:00.160 to collect herbs and prepare potions themselves rather than bying 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.320 them at the market, where one plant could be sold 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.280 under the wrong name, leading to a deadly quote mistake, 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:12.280 and to protect themselves. Also, the wealthy hired tasters, which 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.280 is one of the odder status symbols. 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.920 They like to taste their food, right, Yeah. 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.640 So it became such a popular practice that there grew 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:24.040 to be an official society of tasters. I don't know 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:29.600 what union they did. 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:30.160 Awesome? 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.560 Yeah, did they protect your family if you died, that'd 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:32.920 be great. 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:33.920 Oh, good question. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:34.880 I don't know which. 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:40.120 You're going to you've signed up for that. 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.680 Well, But the thing is, like having a taster wouldn't 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.679 have done much good, probably because if you were going 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.079 to poison someone, you wouldn't choose a fast acting poison 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.160 because that would be very obvious, particularly if someone had 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:58.959 a taster, and you would also probably be more accumulative poison. 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.480 Well, you could do fast acting poison as long as 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.040 no one knew it was you that put it in 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:04.240 the food, right. 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.320 But the thing is, if your intent was to kill 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.040 your target and the person had a taster, yeah, yeah, 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.240 you're right, they had to have a delay because the 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:12.680 person is going to be way too hungry. 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.040 They don't. I mean, come on, if your poison subject 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:16.880 has a taster. 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.560 We're not telling you how to poison someone. 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:20.440 But we're just telling you. 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:27.160 But if we're talking hypothetical to here everyone. So anyway, 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:31.200 poisonings happened frequently, and as per usual, the law had 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:35.160 to catch up with the popular trends. Eventually, cultivating certain 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:39.680 poisonous plants became a capital offense, really a capital offense, 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:44.800 and entire legal institutions were responsible for dishing out punishments 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:46.000 for poisoners. 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:48.600 Wow, as a gardener, that upsets me. 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.840 Why the cultivation side of it? 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:54.680 I want to get arrested. Well, I guess there's still 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:56.880 our plants. I could get arrested, but. 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:59.800 In Illinois no one should come after my mom. 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.960 Said, don't tread on my monk's hood. 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.040 Don't tread on my monk's head. 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:10.640 Oh my god, that's funny. So yeah, these entire legal 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:15.600 institutions were responsible for dishing out punishments for poisoners, and 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:19.520 those punishments weren't far from the crime itself. At one point, 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.240 in three hundred and thirty one BC, a whole slew 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.080 of women one hundred and seventy actually. 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:29.040 Were the unit of one hundred and seventy women is 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.640 one slu It's kind of like sorry, I'm sorry. 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:42.640 Three pecks. No one and a half bushels were Anyway, 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:47.680 these these poor Slough were accused, tried, and convicted of 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:51.680 mass poisoning of men, husbands, lovers, people who stood in 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.560 their way, et cetera. And during the trial some were 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.720 told to drink their prepared potions as proof of innocence. 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:02.720 As I've said, there's a line between poison and medicine, 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.440 with dosage as one of the deciding factors. And all 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.720 the women died whoops, or were put to death. 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:10.720 Yeah. 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:15.360 So, though poisons continued to be used in battle, whether 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.720 through poison tipped arrows or intentionally contamining water supplies, which 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.440 did happen multiple times, they maintained their reputation as a 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.440 woman's choice for murder. And in fact, the star of 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:32.320 today's episode, Aconite, was referred to as stepmother's poison or 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:36.720 the mother in law's poison. So poison has his reputation 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:40.640 for being a woman's weapon, right, and some women leaned 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:46.600 into this, making lives for themselves as professional poisoners. She's 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:50.720 a witch or poison consultants. 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.520 Oh oh, yeah, it's a good business card. 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.160 I mean, it's great. So Lacusta, I don't know if 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:59.560 that's how you say her name. Lc Usta was a 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:05.080 former slave turned consultant for Nero, Roman Emperor. Nero later emperor, 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:11.080 who was so thirsty for the emperor physition seriously, and 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.840 so she helped him kill the current emperor, Claudius's son, 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:20.040 and then helped Claudius's wife to kill Claudius himself, clearing 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.040 the path for Nero. And with the fall of the 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:27.640 Roman Empire, the field of poisoning, toxicology, and medicinal plants, 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:30.639 both in research and practice, seem to retreat to the 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.120 shadows in that part of the world, but it would 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.439 continue to be built upon and much expanded by physicians 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:42.399 and scientists like Avicenna in the Islamic Golden Age. Okay, 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.359 all right, so early history of poisons check, we're done. 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.800 But where does aconite fit into all of this? Yeah? Well, 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.159 to answer that, we're going to dive back into some 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.480 mythology briefly. Are you ready for this? 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:56.240 Always? 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:56.919 Yes? 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.439 All right, Let's take a trip back to the summer 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:05.639 before tenth grade. I don't want to do this my 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:10.199 tenth grade. So in between doing really cool hip things 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:15.919 like rereading Harry Potter one through five, I worked on 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:21.480 my summer assignment, Edith Hamilton's Mythology. So Edith Hamilton's Mythology 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.560 and Harry Potter is where my love for Harry Potter 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.320 met my love for trivia and origin stories. 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:33.359 You do love those things. Every movie I've ever watched 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:37.520 with this Aaron usually has a segment for trivia somewhere 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.000 between halfway through, and. 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.840 That's why we love her, all right, So this is 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:49.440 basically when I read Edith Hamilton, I learned about Cerberus, 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:53.119 who was the three headed dog that guarded the entrance 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:57.920 to the underworld and served as inspiration for all Yeah, 0:18:57.960 --> 0:18:58.800 you got a girl. 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.679 Fluffy was the dog that guarded the place where they 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.280 kept the Philosopher's Stone, the Sorcerer's Stone. 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.120 Yeah, at least somewhere along that pathway exactly, you got 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.959 it anyway, So I was really excited to see that 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:20.960 crossover there. Okay, so it turns out that Hercules. Remember 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:22.320 I was gonna I told you that we were going 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.560 to circle back to this in order to repent for 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.040 killing his wife and kids the first time. The first 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:33.560 time his first wife and his five kids. I think five? Whoa, 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.760 it was okay if you killed two. I mean five 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.080 just seems extreme, doesn't it. He was crazy by Hara 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.560 who else? Yeah, Well, in order to repent for this, 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.440 he had to perform various feats of strength, including capturing 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:52.439 Cerberus and bringing him to the surface. While he was 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.920 up there, Cerberus got off foamy mouthed because he wasn't 0:19:57.000 --> 0:20:01.520 used to sunlight. Rabies sound like rabies. 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:07.080 Teas and water spoilers, It's going to be our first 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.920 episode of ease in two. Everybody get excited. 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:16.840 In any case, Cerberus's spit flew everywhere and where it landed, 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:22.560 Aconite grew, and from these humble beginnings, aconite gained a 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:26.040 reputation as one of the deadliest poisons in ancient times 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:33.199 seriously forking, deadly wow, Yeah Heckeate goddess of witchcraft, and 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:38.600 also in Shakespeare's Macbeth, one of the wishes discovered its 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.480 use as a poison, and Greek shepherds would smear aconite 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.760 juice on arrows or mix the plant with raw meat 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:49.600 to protect their sheep from wolves. Hence, the name wolves Spain. 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:52.399 Oh, so they would put it on so that the 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.320 wolves would die it with the Yeah. Interesting. 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:57.800 So like a lot of what I what I learned 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:00.800 in some of this, like reading about ancients, is that 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.880 anything with wood after it, if it was wormwood used 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:09.400 to treat worms, Hen's bane wolf Spain. You are trying 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:14.120 to kill whatever? So what ishood you trying to kill? 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:15.280 No? No, no, months. 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.399 Which we'll get to see. I haven't looked at any. 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:22.240 Pictures yet, which I'm so excited. 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.960 Yeah. Other species in the aconite genus have been used 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:30.520 to poison arrows in Japan, in the Himalayas, in China, 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:35.760 and in Alaska, so all over. Basically on one Greek island, 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:39.680 aconite was put in the drinks of old men when 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:43.360 they were quote no longer of use to the community. 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:49.479 Early references to aconite emphasize it's extremely potent nature. If 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:51.879 you were going to use aconite, you should be wearing 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:56.359 protective clothing while gardening and avoid breathing in any of 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:59.040 the aconite powder during preparation. 0:21:59.520 --> 0:21:59.960 Wow. 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:04.800 Oh, preparation for poisons apparently continue to this day. 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:07.520 Yes, well absolutely, I can't wait to hear more about 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:08.560 the plant. Itself. 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:13.840 Oh yeah, okay, I'll get to it. Then aaronski use me. 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:21.240 That was just a I'm excited, okay, yeah, where the 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:24.880 smell of the plant alone was thought to be strong 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:27.439 enough to cause illness or death. 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:28.640 Whoa. 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:34.200 Somewhere along the way, though, the language around aconite changed. 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:39.000 It turned from poison to medicine. You name it, aconite, 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:41.919 will treat it, seemed to be the motto, and that 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:45.840 happened around the mid seventeen hundreds. It was prescribed by 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:49.359 many doctors when a good sweat was needed. This is 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:53.399 back when the ancient concept of various bodily humors still 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:57.520 held sway in the medical field. Oddly enough, aconite didn't 0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:01.720 prove to be a particularly rely liable or safe treatment 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:05.040 and gradually fell out of favor in the medical community 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:09.439 after the treatment didn't agree with one too many patients. 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.199 And by agree, we mean like it killed one too 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:12.040 many patients. 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:17.840 Thank you, exactly exactly. But that didn't mark the end 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:21.520 for aconite. Where it initially failed to gain support in 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:26.359 the Orthodox medical community, it found in homeopathy. Under the 0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:32.240 concept of like cures. Like drugs such as aconite were 0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:37.040 used to treat diseases which had similar symptoms. Aconite was 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:41.480 used for acute diseases, especially those characterized by fever and pain. 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:46.120 It gained reputation as a substitute for blood letting. Probably 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:51.200 it's treating one evil for another poisoning, right, I mean 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:56.080 you know which. In these times, people were always looking 0:23:56.160 --> 0:24:01.040 for an excuse to bloodlet Apparently, aconite were best on 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:05.800