1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. Joe 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: and I recently had the chance to talk with Nelson Dellis. 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: He is a memory champion, a memory athlete, as some 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: might say. Yes, someone even say a mental athlete. Um 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: though when I when we chatted with him, he did 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: mention that he doesn't like to use that terminology because 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 1: if he goes out to the UK, that makes him 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: sound like he's got a problem. But but no, this 11 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: this guy is one of the leading memory athletes in 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: the world. He is. Uh. He uses the method of 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: loci the memory Palace, which is a fabulous device that 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: allows you to use spatial memory to catalog at times 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: just obscure facts or even just useless data. It's really 16 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: one of the great mental technologies that I've ever encountered. 17 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: I haven't used it much, but I think it's very 18 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: interesting and I'd like to give it an exploration sometime soon. Yeah, 19 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: it's fascinating stuff. So we recently chatted with Nelson and uh, 20 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: we're gonna air that interview, but first we thought it 21 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: would be helpful to go ahead and re air some 22 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: previous stuff to blow your mind content about the memory palace, 23 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: about the method of loci, how it works, where it 24 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: comes from, and then we'll talk to the expert himself 25 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: to give some inside information. So, without any further ado, 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: here is Robert and Julie's excellent old discussion of the 27 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: memory palace. Really, I don't have the best memory in 28 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: the world. Um, I mean, maybe it's an average memory. 29 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm I have problems with my brain 30 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: or anything, but I often forget that. I think everybody 31 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: has this where the really boring stuff you need to 32 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: remember sometimes, uh you don't remember. I can have a 33 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: simple list to go to the grocery with, and if 34 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: I don't have it written like in the notes section 35 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: of my iPhone, then I'm not going to remember everything. 36 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: Even if it's something vital, like something the thing that 37 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: I need to eat that night, an important component in 38 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: the in the the meal, I still will forget to 39 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: pick it up. I'm sorry, what were you just saying that? Uh, 40 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 1: you know, I have a horrible memory. Actually I read 41 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: something when our research that compared memory to a Wikipedia entry. Yeah, 42 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: and they were saying, it's like it's your memory is 43 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: constantly being altered and augmented and then sometimes pared away. Yeah, 44 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: and sometimes the stuff that it's being updated with is 45 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 1: completely uh not true. It's horse manure sometimes turns out. Yeah, 46 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: and that's not necessarily what we're gonna talk about today, 47 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: but you could actually talk to me about that before, 48 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: and I thought it was fascinating. We're just saying that 49 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: when you have a memory, each time you bring it up, 50 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: you're revising it in some way. Oh yeah, yeah, well 51 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: we'll we'll definitely have to cover that in an upcoming 52 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: episode in more detailed. But yeah, every time you bring 53 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: up a memory, you're not just removing it pristine from 54 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: the vault and then returning it pristine to the vault, 55 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: but you're updating at each time because your brain needs 56 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: updated information because we live in a world, as as 57 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: we discussed in our math podcast, we live in a 58 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: world and we have to navigate a world of multiple 59 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: movable objects and symbols, so we have to be able 60 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: to fly with that yep, and then hence the horsemen 61 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: who are sometimes right right. So people have had horrible 62 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: memories for as long as we've had to remember things 63 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: because just as math, as we discussed in the Math Podcast, 64 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: we develop mathematics to do the things that we're not 65 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: naturally inclined to be able to do with our normal 66 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: mental faculties. We have to develop systems. But what to 67 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: do if you're in the Roman Empire, for for instance, 68 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: just hanging out and you don't necessarily have a ton 69 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: of books around you or your your iPhone there. Yeah, well, 70 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: in this case, you've turned to something called the memory palace, 71 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: also known as the method of low key. Right. That's right, 72 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: And the origins of this go back to a particular 73 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: back to the fifth century BC and a Greek poet 74 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: by the name of Somonodes of CEOs. And uh, he 75 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,839 Speaker 1: was attending a party, you know, in the dining hall, 76 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: having fun around the table with a bunch of a 77 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: bunch of buddies, and he h walked out for a 78 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: few minutes, and the whole entire place collapsed behind him. 79 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: Oh he walked out. I wondered how he survived. Okay, yeah, 80 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: maybe he went out for smoke or something, but but 81 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: he went outside, Uh, and everything collapsed. He survives. Everybody 82 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: else's just crushed to just mush just a Smucker's jam. 83 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: There's no identifying these people. But he was, yeah, with 84 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: a name like Smuckers. Um, so he goes back in, 85 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: you know, he doesn't go back in, but they dig 86 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: everything up again, Smucker's jam everywhere, and they're like, all right, 87 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: who were each of these people? And he he says, well, 88 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: let me think about it. And he's able to identify 89 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: each puddle as as he's able to that was, and 90 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: he's able to identify them based on their seating position 91 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: at the table. He's able to remember where they were 92 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: spatially and therefore remember who they were identified these remains, 93 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: and this was a big moment for him, right yeah, 94 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: because then he realized, hey, I could apply this to 95 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: other things in my life. If I have a list 96 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: I need to remember, if there's a long list of 97 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: facts I need to get down, this is how I 98 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: could do it. And uh and and so this survived 99 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: for ages, uh you know, well, you know, for centuries 100 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: and centuries and on up through today. Um. One big 101 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: proponent of this was Dominican monk UH Giordano Bruno, who 102 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: was actually he was burned at the stake in UH 103 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: sixteen hundred for heresy. But it wasn't the memory palace 104 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: method that they got him there though, I think some 105 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: people found it kind of creepy. But his whole thing 106 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: had to do with he believed that God was president 107 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: nature and the universe and life was infinite there where 108 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: that you know, there might be aliens or something and uh, 109 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: and so that got him into the hot water. Yeah. 110 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: The Roman Catholic Church wasn't big on that at the time, 111 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: but today they have a statue where he where he 112 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: was burned, and and he's more revered these days. No, 113 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: that's nice, you know, at least later on. Yeah, So 114 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: the basically the the idea here, uh, if you want 115 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: to look at like just sort of a simple version, 116 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: if you take these mundane facts and you position them 117 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: in a spatial framework and you make and you make 118 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: them interesting, all right, So that the idea of the 119 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: memory palace is to create a mental house in which 120 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,559 Speaker 1: to house and organize symbolic images, which then could serve 121 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: as a queue for information retrieval, right right, Like for instance, 122 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: our good friend um um, the simonities here could easily 123 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: populate this this banquet table with um, you know, a 124 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: list of addresses he needs to remember if he can 125 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: come up with a unique way to remember each one 126 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: and then remember them in order based on where they 127 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: are at the table. Okay, and um, just a little 128 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: side fact to Thomas Harris's novel Hannibal. Actually, Hannibal Lecter 129 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: uses memory palaces for his patients records. Yeah he does. 130 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: I've forgotten about that. I read that. Yeah, he even 131 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: includes music too for the rooms that he's going into. Um. Well, hey, 132 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: it's good enough for Hannibal Lecter, you know, it's it's 133 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: good enough for me, which is why I actually tried 134 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: this out yesterday. And I'm going to repeat everything that 135 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: I imagined the way I built and populated my memory 136 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: palace so that I could remember a list of five 137 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,239 Speaker 1: things to get from the grocery store in the way home. Okay, 138 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: he didn't write a thing down, No, did not write 139 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: a thing down. He didn't put anything in my in 140 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,239 Speaker 1: my phone and uh and so these were the things. 141 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:53,239 Speaker 1: Just it was a soy creamer, ingle Hoffer's mustard, ant traps, 142 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: frozen fruit, and toilet paper. So you know, just this 143 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: a standard run for me. Um, all right, what is 144 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: your mem smory palace look like? So I decided to 145 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: for the space. I decided to use the space that 146 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: I'm occupying right now, the house stuff works podcast room 147 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: slash podcast chamber. Okay, so this is why I pictured it. 148 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: All Right over here behind you is our sound booth, 149 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: and inside it I pictured a robot cow drinking coffee 150 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: for my soy milk, all right, and then seated where 151 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: you are. You're not here, but instead there's a large 152 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: German man in in a later hosen, big mustache going on, 153 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: and he's got big clumps of of of spicy hot 154 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: mustard in his mustache. And that's the inglehoppers mustache, because 155 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: it has a little German man on the loop. Then 156 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: in this seat between us, because the table that we 157 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: record at has a third chair that is never occupied 158 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: by an actual person um but in in my memory palace, 159 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: it is occupied by a large pile, like a human 160 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: sized pile of frozen fruit. And it's just gleaming in 161 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: the light, smelting a little bit, smelling wheat and uh. 162 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: And you know I can see strawberry and mango and all. 163 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: And because this is an important part of the memory, 164 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: cost to add some details to it. You know, you're 165 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: not just thinking the word Um, you know you're not 166 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,719 Speaker 1: just thinking the word frozen fruit, you're picturing it. Uh, 167 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: it is existing in space and not just a concept, 168 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: all right. And then if I were to poke my 169 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: head out through these curtains where Jerry is setting, uh, producer, 170 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: I would see a giant ant and that Aunt is 171 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: dressed in Maria von Trapps dress from the Sound of Music, 172 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: because I need to remember Aunt Traps. Yeah. And then 173 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: the fifth item. Standing at the green screen behind Jerry's seat, 174 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: there is a toilet paper mummy going through a number 175 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: of sexy poses for the camera. They're sexy poses. Yeah, yeah, 176 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: so and so anyway it worked. I was able to 177 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 1: remember I know only five things. That's kind of puny, 178 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: but I was able to remember these five things. Now 179 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: you can also say that while I was doing this 180 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: for the podcast, I was applying thought to this than 181 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: I would normally apply to the list that I things 182 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: I need to pick up. And it's also worth noting 183 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: that even though this is an abbreviated version, one can 184 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: use use people use this for hundreds of items, right 185 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: And in fact, in each room you could have I 186 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: don't know five ten different items that are living there. 187 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: It's just a matter of placing the object, right, Yeah, 188 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: well how about you. Do you have a memory palace, 189 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: so you've constructed. I do, and I'm not going to 190 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: actually share it, um because I don't think it's I'll 191 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: share one on my on my list. And basically I 192 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: need to mail my fs A reimbursement right flexible spending account. 193 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: So at my front door, I just pictured angry chirups 194 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: with wings made out of dollar bills greeting me at 195 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: the front door with a pile of mail. Oh well 196 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: that's good, right, like you, And they're angry because I'm like, 197 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: you don't send this stuff in. My wings are going 198 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: to fall off or whatever. I don't know, but I 199 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 1: do have other rooms, but just for brevity's sake, I 200 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: won't I won't tell. But what I love about this 201 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: is that it quickly becomes very similar to the surrealism 202 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: that I don't know about you, but for me, that 203 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: I experienced in my dreams. Yeah yeah, right, Like all 204 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 1: of a sudden, there's these incongruent things going on and 205 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: they're they're wild and they're fantastic. And that's I think 206 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: why we remember our dreams sometimes, right, because they're so 207 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: extraordinary yeah, we were at least yeah exactly, I mean 208 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: we were. We were talking about about this how we 209 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: take something mundane and we turn it into something crazy 210 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: and memorable in the same way that on this trip 211 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: from New York we we both just came back from 212 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: attending the World Science Festival in New York City. By 213 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: the way, two eleven, it's gonna be back in two 214 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: thousand twelve. Highly recommend anybody who's big into science and 215 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: was in New York to give it a go. And and 216 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: and that's actually where I attended a I was an 217 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: audience for a panel on memory, and that's where I 218 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: get really excited about the concept of the Memory Palace. 219 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: But while I was waiting to go into one of 220 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 1: these events, my wife and I were waiting out in 221 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: this little courtyard area and we saw this man walk 222 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: up with a box like cardboard box under his arm 223 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: that said Trout on the side, like I don't know, 224 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: like a beer card, like a box like beer would 225 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,599 Speaker 1: come in or something, but he just said Trout. I 226 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: don't know what the brand was, But anyway, he's standing 227 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: in there, puts his box down on the ground and 228 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: he gets a handful of of like bread or crackers out, 229 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: and he starts feeding the pigeons, which I don't think 230 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 1: it's technically illegal, but he's doing it anyway. So he's 231 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: feeding the pigeons. Three of them land there, and they're 232 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: just standing there eating, and then slowly he starts raising 233 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: his hand up, moving his hand forward, and then he 234 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: reaches down, snatches one of the pigeons, stuffs it into 235 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: the cardboard box, and then walks off with the cardboard 236 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: box full of a pigeon. And so you told me that, 237 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: And I don't think I'll ever be able to look 238 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: at a pigeon without thinking of that poor pigeons fate. Yeah, 239 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: or or or wondering again why the side of the 240 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: the cooler said trout, Yeah, yeah, so that it's yeah. 241 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: I have no idea what he was doing with it, 242 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: what the purpose was, if he was an official pigeon catcher, 243 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: if he was gonna eat it for dinner, uh, you 244 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: know who knows. But it was memorable because it was 245 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: so weird. And so the memory palace is is kind 246 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: of like, let's make the mundane fact, Let's make the 247 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: soy creamer that I will inevitably forget. Let's make that 248 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: into something memorable so that I can't forget it at 249 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: least for a short term. Um. And then you can 250 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: you can use this this uh this memory palace and 251 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: you can populate it with hundreds of items, so you 252 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: can you can remember a list in order of hundreds 253 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: of items. And that's what mental athletes do. They're called 254 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: mental athletes, and we'll get to them in a bit. 255 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:45,599 Speaker 1: Umah after this quick break and we're back. Do you 256 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: remember what we were talking about everyone memory palace robotic cow. Yeah, yeah, 257 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: well that that was part of it. That was how 258 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: we remember. Yeah, well, let's just walk is really quickly, 259 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: just like sort of four easy steps on how you 260 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: can create your own memory palace. Um. So we've already 261 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: talked about the first step, which is create a physical 262 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: location that you can clearly visualize right now. And that's 263 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: why I went with the podcast chamber for me because 264 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: I see it all the time. I'm very familiar with 265 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: the with the locations, and I can I can imagine 266 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: it instantly, right, and you can make up your own palace, 267 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: you know, just as long as you can um get 268 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: a clear beat on the detail of it. Might I 269 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: recommend like maybe the command deck from one of the 270 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: Star Trek shows. That would be good. There you go. 271 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: That's a good example. Um. And step two is to 272 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: establish a memory route through the location. Right, So if 273 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna you say, your childhood home, then you want 274 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: to go through the front door, and you know, pick 275 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: a route that say you go left to the kitchen 276 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: and then down the hallway or so on and so forth. Um, 277 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: you want to keep that same route all the time? 278 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: Am I right about that? Yes? Okay? Yeah. Joshua four 279 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: who wrote a book about all this called Walking with Einstein, 280 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: he actually did a short video for the World Science 281 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: Festival and uh and it was shown during this memory 282 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: pan all that I attended, and uh and he he 283 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: was he actually did it in a garden like in 284 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: a like a gardener was more like a gardenery of 285 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: a park or something, and he was he actually, you know, 286 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: he's like, all right, here is going to be and 287 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: it was something crazy like you know, Einstein moon walking 288 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: that's the title. And then he walked through it and 289 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: he was able to do like a list of a 290 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: D ten things yea. And as he's walking through it, 291 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: he's placing the objects. So this is really important. So 292 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: once you're you establish your route. You want to put 293 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: your objects that you want to remember, your things, your 294 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: concepts they want to remember in that room. And the 295 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: reason why you want to do this is because it 296 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: becomes what's called a memory peg. Okay, so that's important 297 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: for step three is you need to now peg the 298 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: memory to the object. So that's when you start to 299 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: think about these really bizarre associations. Right, the more bizarre 300 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: the better. If you want to remember to pick up bananas, 301 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: then can visualize your front door as a banana Dakary 302 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: portal with Carmen Miranda greeting you or something along those lines. 303 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: It helps if you're kind of silly. I think silliness definitely, 304 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: yeah uh. And you can add a song or a 305 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: sent to the memory, especially if you're Hannibal elector right. 306 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: And then step forward is just to repeat the visualization 307 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: until you've cemented the objects to memories. You really pick 308 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: those memories, all right. So it's a fairly simple process. 309 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: So we've probably talked about the research part of this, 310 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: which is pretty cool, and actually talk about these mental athletes. 311 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: So there are many types of memory. We don't just 312 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: have memory in the human brain. We have just to 313 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: give you a brief idea. We have sensory memory, we 314 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:35,479 Speaker 1: have short term, long term, explicit, implicit, procedural, declarative, episodic, semantic, 315 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: and uh, and we also have spatial memory. And the 316 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: spatial context is extremely important. Like it because again, at 317 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: a at a very basic level, we are navigating a world, 318 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: a physical world of movable, numerous objects and simples. That's right. 319 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: And no, I've talked about this before that when you 320 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: walk into a room, that what you're perceiving isn't necessarily 321 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: coming through your eyes. It's coming from the associations that 322 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,479 Speaker 1: your brain is making spatially. So you're whether or not 323 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: you realize that you're you're judging the height of the 324 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 1: ceiling or the doors, and so on and so forth. Yeah, 325 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: I mean, and if you look back at our evolutionary history, 326 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: you know there's a time where you need to remember 327 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: the field where you you know, killed a monkey that 328 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna eat or something of that nature. You know, 329 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: where does it lay in the field? Has it moved? 330 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: So every we end up having this spatial scaffolding upon 331 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: which we make sense of our entire lives. Just think 332 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: of a calendar or think of a timeline like these 333 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 1: are These are spatial scaffolding systems that we use to 334 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: understand what's going on in the world around us. Yeah, 335 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: and I especially like the evolutionary example because if you 336 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: and why you would need the spatial memories because ye 337 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: again think about like trying to find food sources and 338 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: mapping that out in your brain, or trying to figure 339 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 1: out where that dent of lions are how best to 340 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 1: avoid them. Yeah, So it's really important distress here that 341 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: the memory palace is not a trick. It's not really 342 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: a trick. It's not something and when you have people 343 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 1: who can who can use it and use it to 344 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: impressive degrees, not just for five items at the grocery 345 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: store that uh, they're they're not doing anything out of 346 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: the ordinary. Like the spatial way, and the way that 347 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: we use spatial memory in the memory palace is just 348 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: how we think. It's how the brain works. Well. And also, 349 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: these mental athletes that compete, right, they actually have very 350 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: average memories. They've tested them. Yeah, these are not superpowered 351 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: brains here. These are normal brains. They're using just to 352 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: tie down what's happening in the brain. And there's a 353 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: lot going on in the brain with memory. But uh, 354 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: spatial memory is tied to the hippocampus, which is located 355 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: in the temporal lobe, and it kind of looks like 356 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: a long gummy worm kind of thing in your brain. 357 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: And it's also worth noting that at the head of 358 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: this worm you have the amigala, which is tied to 359 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: emotional memory, which again kind of look at the head 360 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: of the worm, and underneath that you have the pa 361 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: hippocampal which is tied into details, memory recoding, and memory retrieval. 362 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: But the hippocampus that's spatial, and that's the area that 363 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: really fires up when these mental athletes start using the 364 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: memory palace to exceptional degrees. That's right. In a study 365 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: of eight top ranking mental athletes that they were asked 366 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: to memorize three digit numbers and black and white photographs 367 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,959 Speaker 1: of people's faces and magnified images of snowflakes, researchers found 368 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: that in comparison to the control group of non mental athletes, 369 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: the mental athletes were using a lot more of their 370 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: spatial memory in that hippocampus region that you talked about, um, 371 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: And again it's because they're using that spatial reasoning to 372 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: peg a blueprint of all the objects that they're memorizing. 373 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: So um, so we're talking about these mental athletes. Let's 374 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: talk specifically about one of the more famous ones. I 375 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: suppose by now, um Joshua four. Yeah, this is the 376 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: guy who wrote Moon's Moonwalking with Einstein that I mentioned earlier. Um. Yeah, 377 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: he became interested in these individ jules and he's just 378 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: a journalist, right, I want to find out more about this. 379 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: I mean, he became interested in the US Memory Championship 380 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 1: and he went there expecting to interview a bunch of 381 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: savants and uh and just you know, mental giants, and 382 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: and they kind of laughed at the notion when he 383 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: when he asked him the questions because they're like, no, 384 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: I'm just you know, a normal dude and this is 385 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: not that complicated. And so he kind of took it 386 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: on as a challenge to like, well, let me see 387 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: what I can do. Let me try out the memory palace, 388 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:28,719 Speaker 1: let me let me see what I can do with 389 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: the method of Loki. Yeah, and he spent a whole 390 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: year this was just pretty incredible with memory champ ed 391 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:40,199 Speaker 1: cook um literally just so he could improve his mental acuity, 392 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: right that that was his the first thing that he 393 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: wanted to try to do, but he became really obsessed 394 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: with becoming a mental athlete himself. And he went on 395 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: to compete in and win the US Memory Championship, and 396 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: each morning during this year, he would spend fifteen minutes 397 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: memorizing a new poem or memorizing the names in an 398 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: old yearbook for instance. Um, but that's not that's not 399 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: where it stopped him. He again, he was obsessed with us. 400 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: So on the subway he would start to memorize random numbers, 401 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: or he would keep a deck of playing cards with 402 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: him and memorize those. And he began to catalog everything 403 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: in his existence and constructing like basically like condominiums of 404 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: mental palaces, so to speak. Cook, the guy that he 405 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: he interviewed, he actually did a like a Ted talk 406 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: or Ted x talk or something. And I'll have to 407 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: embed that in the blog post that we do to 408 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: accompany this, uh, this particular episode, because he goes into 409 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: how he would he uses the memory pal system. He's 410 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: memorized things like Chinese characters, you know, basically learning bits 411 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: of another language via the memory palace. Yeah, and he 412 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: has some really good visual representations in that video. Yeah, 413 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: super silly Joshua four. Yeah, completely obsessed. He even bought 414 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: a pair of goggles and spray painted them black and 415 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: then he cut out eye holes in them. And this 416 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 1: is all in the efforts that he could better concentrate 417 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: on his memory scales. Yeah, so it looks like that. 418 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 1: Part of it sounds like, you know, Jedi master training, 419 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 1: where some sort of you know, far Eastern like thing. 420 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: But then in his mind he's thinking about goofy things 421 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: like you know, like Katherine Hepburn juggling frogs or something 422 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, And there's a great New 423 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: York Times article called Secrets of a Mind Gamer, and 424 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: in it, uh Cook says to the reporter there that 425 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: photographic memory because because the reporter brings up, well, isn't 426 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: this just photographic memory? And yeah, and he says, no, 427 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: photographic memory is a despicable myth, it doesn't exist. In fact, 428 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: my memory is quite average. All of us here have 429 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: quite average memories. Okay, So this is coming from the 430 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: guy who could recite most of Paradise Lost by Heart 431 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: as well as like two fifty two random digits he 432 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 1: could commit to memory in like five minutes. So I mean, 433 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 1: these really are incredible feats that these guys are doing. Yeah, 434 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: and indeed, and actually, um, you know, this is a 435 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: competition that they have among themselves. But Cook says that 436 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: it's also an attempt for them to rescue a long 437 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: lost tradition of memory training, because again, we don't necessarily 438 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: need it these days, right, except that we still have 439 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: these crazy, failing memories, right, um, just for the most 440 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: mundane things, Like I've mentioned to you that, um, I 441 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: think a lot for some reason about Quentin Tarantino movies, 442 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 1: but inevitably I always forget his name, and yet it's 443 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: something that you know, I reference a lot. How would 444 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: you use the memory palace to remember? Okay, the reason 445 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: why I can even say Quentin Tarantino now is because 446 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: now I think about going to San Quentin and going 447 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: to the Commissary, and in the Commissary, Mariotali is fixing 448 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: ten thousand plates of Tarantino pasta. We'll see that, well, see, 449 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: and that makes perfect sense within the architecture of your mind. 450 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: But I would have to use quent Quentin Tarantino to 451 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,959 Speaker 1: remember that other stuff you were talking about. I mean, 452 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: Quentin San Quentin, I know, But who is the guy 453 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: Mario Batali, who's that? Oh man, he's a great Italian chef. 454 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: And and if you don't have to see the red 455 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: headed dude, yeah, yeah, he's pretty outrageous in another So 456 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: if you don't really have to do much to him, 457 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: like you know, you don't want to guild a literally there, Okay, yeah, 458 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: but yeah, anyway, I mean, this is this is stuff 459 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 1: that you can do. Um, but it's pretty amazing to 460 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: look at this, uh Joshua for Character and Ed Cook 461 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: and see them in action and um. In that video 462 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: that Ed Cook has um on the ted X, he 463 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: says that you should use your memory in a playful 464 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: and enjoyable way, and you should experience it as a 465 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: gift rather than a boring an annoying thing you'd rather 466 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 1: park away in your iPhone. Yeah, because that's the thing 467 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: they're enjoying, these memory games. And I have to say 468 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: learning that little list was kind of it was kind 469 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: of fun, so that the five and easily five things 470 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: I had to remember the grocery store. But I don't know, 471 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: maybe I should play a litt bit more and see 472 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: how it goes. And I certainly encourage anyone listening to 473 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: to give the memory palace a go to to. Try 474 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: using it, even if it's just like you know, the 475 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: time you need to do a grocery list of just 476 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: a few items, don't write it down, don't put it 477 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: in your cell phones. Try constructing a memory palace out 478 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: of it, and I think it'll be surprised at how 479 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: well it works. All Right, we're back and we're gonna 480 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: speak with Nelson Dellis here again, a three time us 481 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: A Memory champion. Uh. He's uh. He's currently ranked one 482 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: of the top fifty in the world memory rankings. And uh. 483 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: He started competing in two thousand nine when he came 484 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: in sixteen in the USA Memory Championships that year and 485 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: the new year since he's won three times and finished 486 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: in the top three spots. Uh. He runs the Extreme 487 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: Memory Tournament to Extreme Memory Tournament dot com, it's where 488 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: you'll find it. And he also has a nonprofit titled 489 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: Climb for Memory, and you'll find that at Climb for 490 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: Memory dot org. That's a nonprofit charity aimed at raising 491 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: awareness and funds for Alzheimer's disease by climbing mountains around 492 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: the world. So welcome to the show, Nelson. I'm gonna 493 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: start off by just asking, Uh, what does competing in 494 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: the US Memory Championships consists of? Yeah, So it's actually, UM, 495 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: it's a one day event and basically there's a morning 496 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: in an afternoon part. In the morning part is based 497 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: off of four events. So we memorize faces. We have 498 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: UM a packet of a hundred and seventeen pictures, and 499 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: we have fifteen minutes to memorize as many of those 500 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: faces with their name pairs as possible. UM. And then 501 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 1: after that we have speed numbers, so we're given a 502 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: page filled with numbers and we have five minutes to 503 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: memorize as many as possible. Then we do a deck 504 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: of cards as fast as possible, and then finally a poem, 505 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: a previously unpublished poem that we try to memorize word 506 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: for word UM in fifteen minutes. The top eight from 507 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: that morning event set of events goes into the afternoon rounds, 508 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: which is like a playoff series of rounds. The first 509 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: is a random word list. We have to memorize in 510 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: sixteen minutes as many words as possible, and we go 511 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: on stage and are eliminated if you say any wrong UM. 512 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: And then when three are eliminated, we move on to 513 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: the next round, which is um a tea party, that's 514 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,479 Speaker 1: what it's called. We get audience members to come up 515 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: and say things about themselves, like their name, where they're from, 516 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: phone number, hobbies and we have to memorize those and 517 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: then finally the final event is to memorize two decks 518 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,479 Speaker 1: of cards in five minutes. And it's basically sat on 519 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: stage until somebody messes up and you're left with the champion. 520 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: So what's your method? Do you use the method of locai? 521 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: Right now? It's it's everyone that you'll find these competitions 522 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 1: will use some form of the memory palace technique or 523 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: the method of loca, and that's that's what separates us 524 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: all pretty much, in my opinion, is is basically practice. 525 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: How much time did you spend training? Uh? Because you 526 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: get faster at being able to use this method and 527 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: more efficient at it. And can you share anything on 528 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: your particular take on the method or is or is 529 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: that sort of a trade secret? No? I can. It's 530 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: funny in this world of pneumonics competitivenemonics and see everybody 531 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: is willing to share their techniques because there are no secrets. 532 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: It just comes down to how much do you train UM. 533 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 1: So in terms of what I do, it's nothing crazy. 534 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: I mean I use memory palaces from my childhood, my 535 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: homes that I've lived in, apartments, UM workplaces, things like that, 536 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: and what it comes down to, like I said, practice, 537 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: But also for some of the events it's UM. It's 538 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: big on strategy. So for example, numbers, I have a 539 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: specific system that I've come up with UM to help 540 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: me translate these numbers into things that I can place 541 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: in the memory top us UM. And that I guess 542 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: it's kind of where some people may have UM an 543 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: advantage over others. But that again, it takes time. If 544 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: you have, the more complicated your system, the more time 545 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: need to spend preparing it and practicing it. Do you 546 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: find yourself using the memory palace for things outside of competitions, 547 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: like when you're not in the game, And how much 548 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: of it do you use in the course of any 549 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: given day. You know, at the beginning, when I was 550 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: getting into this, I would try to memorize everything people 551 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: I meet, things I see, whatever. But the more I 552 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: got into memory sports and the more I would practice, 553 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: the more I just be exhausted by the time it 554 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: was in real life. So actually a lot of the 555 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: time I'm nowadays, I'm just kind of like, I don't 556 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: want to be on all the time, so I I 557 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: kind of shut it off, which is interesting in itself 558 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: because it shows that this thing is uh, it's it's 559 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: something I have to do with make an effort to 560 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: to do. It's not just a natural, um thing that happens, 561 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: you know. But that being said, I mean I do 562 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: use it obviously if I need to, but I'm at 563 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: a party or an important networking event, I use it 564 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: obviously to memorize names and facts about people. How is 565 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: the method of local change the way you look at 566 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: memory as a whole, particularly the degree to which show 567 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: we can trust it. Yeah, you know, learning these techniques 568 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: has definitely given me a lot more confidence in my 569 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: own memory. Um. It's allowed me to do things that 570 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,239 Speaker 1: I never thought i'd be able to do. UM. And 571 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: it just shows me that the mind is really I 572 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: don't want to say a limitless because that's that's a 573 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: bit silly to say that. But there are a lot 574 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: of things that we can do with our minds that 575 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: we may not believe as possible, you know. UM, And 576 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: that's that to me, It's just The beauty of this 577 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: whole thing is that there's so much more than we know, 578 00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,959 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, we should give ourselves a lot 579 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: more credits. Sometimes we're too quick to say, oh, I 580 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: can't do that. Um, that's impossible, but you know, there 581 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: are a lot of things that are possible, and it's 582 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: just a matter of thought, you know. So who's harder 583 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: on you when you actually forget something of yourself? Or 584 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: other people? At this point? Probably people that I know, 585 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: you know, everybody expects me to remember everything. And while 586 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: I do remember a lot, like I said, I do 587 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: like to kind of take time off from being on 588 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: all the time, you know, so and you know, you 589 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: can imagine everybody who meets me expects me to remember 590 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: their name. And that's a lot of people. Of course, 591 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: they remember my name because I'm Nelson, the memory guy, right, 592 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: they come towards me. Um, so yeah, I guess now 593 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: it's more other people. Is there any sort of information 594 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: that's particularly difficult to incorporate into the memory palace in 595 00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: your experience? Yeah, I guess names are are pretty tricky. Um, 596 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: because you're not really using a memory palace per se. 597 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: You kind of are, but it's in disguise, if that 598 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: makes any sense. Um. You know, you instead of attaching 599 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: a piece of information and image to a location in 600 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: a memory palace, you're attaching it to a person's face 601 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: or a person's body or something about them. Um. In 602 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: the Turkey part about that is you can't really review 603 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: in the same way that you can with a memory palace. 604 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: The memory palace, you know very well the person and 605 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: their attribute or their feature that you use as an anchor. 606 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: You know, it goes away with them when they're gone. Um. 607 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: So it's it's it's kind of scary in that sense 608 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,479 Speaker 1: because you don't have control over that. Here's a question. 609 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: Does it affect your dreams? I don't know. I'm not 610 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: really I'm I'm a bad dreamer. I don't really remember 611 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: my dreams, which is kind of funny, I guess, um, 612 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: but I will say that leading up to competition, when 613 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: I'm memorizing a lot any a lot, I have had 614 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: dreams where I that I'm memorizing and when I wake up, 615 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: I remember, like the sequence of cards that I memorized 616 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: in the dream, which is bizarre. Now, I know what 617 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people are wondering. Can anyone become a 618 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: memory athlete, or do you have to have a certain 619 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: type of cognitive architecture already in place? Um? No, anybody 620 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: can joint. There's no like qualifications or anything. Um. And 621 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: the techniques are pretty easy to to to learn, but 622 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: obviously if you want to compete at the high level, 623 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: a lot of prep needs to go into it. Can 624 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: you walk us through an example of the sort of 625 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: memory palace you might employ to remember, say something like 626 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: a series of playing cards? Um, yeah, you could. Uh. 627 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: Let's see, so I had I had to do a 628 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: speech today and some of that I can I can 629 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: maybe recite off some of the images I saw today. Okay, alright, 630 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: So the first three cards were Ata Clubs, Queen of 631 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: Hearts and five of Spades which is bear grills and the 632 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: the adventurer Guy um cooking a pair of scissors. And 633 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 1: then moving on to the next location was the tena 634 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: Hearts to Clubs and Tenna Clubs, which is a close 635 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 1: friend of mine being crucified on the floor. Um. And 636 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:26,399 Speaker 1: then you have Jennifer Connolly um standing on top of 637 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: a television set while playing her game Boy. And then 638 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: I have Satan waving his wand and suddenly he's wearing gloves. 639 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: I have an ex girlfriend sniping with a golf club. Um. 640 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: Then there's a pirate Jack Sparrow, he's dunking slam dunking 641 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: a desk, and Arnold Schwarzenegger was moonwalking on top of 642 00:34:50,719 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: a horse, um and so on. Alright, so do you 643 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: have it? Some insight from an expert utilizer of the 644 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: memory palace. Thank you Nelson for taking the time to 645 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: chat with us. If you want to follow Nelson on Twitter, 646 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 1: you can find him at Climb for Memory and again 647 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: be sure to visit his website Climb for Memory dot org. 648 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: That's the nonprofit charity aimed in raising awareness and funds 649 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: for Alzheimer's disease. As always, you can find uh this 650 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: and any number of other podcast episodes of Stuff to 651 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,919 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com, 652 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: as well as blog post videos links out to our 653 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: various social media accounts. You name it, And if you 654 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: have thoughts about the memory Palace or you want to 655 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: tell us about a particularly bizarre memory palace you've ever constructed, 656 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: you can email us at blow the Mind at how 657 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com for more on this and thousands 658 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: of other topics. Does it how stuff works dot com,