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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stephan Never Told You plecture Ihart Radio, and

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Speaker 2: today we are so thrilled to once again be joined

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Speaker 2: by friend of the show, hopefully real life friend you

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Speaker 2: can never meet in person.

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Speaker 3: I'd love that.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, me too, Joe Piazza. Welcome, Joe, Hi,

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, Thank you for coming on.

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Speaker 2: You have been on the show before.

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Speaker 3: I have.

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Speaker 4: I have.

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Speaker 3: It has just it's been a minute, and it's been

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Speaker 3: too many minutes, I think, because I love chatting with you,

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Speaker 3: and we should just be friends in real life too.

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Speaker 3: We should just do this in person, like in a bar.

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Speaker 1: That would be fun, That would be a delight. I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say for me because I have. I was

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Speaker 1: not on when you came on, but I'm like, you

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Speaker 1: have a celebrity to me because I'm like, in our world,

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Speaker 1: podcast world, you're such a big name. So I'm like, ooh, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get the insight we wouldn't get like the

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Speaker 1: real pro tip.

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Speaker 3: Here because I've been doing this forever and mostly because

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Speaker 3: it's the only skill that I have. I can make

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Speaker 3: podcasts and I can write books and in the zombie

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Speaker 3: apocalypse or the chat gpt apocalypse. There I have nothing left,

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Speaker 3: Like I have no skills. I'll just be irrelevant.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, I don't know. Those are pretty big skills,

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Speaker 1: Like someone needs to tell the stories when all of

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Speaker 1: us but one person dies, you have to leave that story.

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Speaker 3: Just guys. I just pictured me running around chasing zombies

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Speaker 3: with like a microphone, with like my zoom microphone, me like.

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Speaker 1: Hey, do you feel the day?

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Speaker 3: Are you feeling at the end of the world.

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Speaker 1: You get on social media.

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Speaker 2: Today, braids, braids frads, Well, oh my gosh, you have

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Speaker 2: been on here before, but it has been a minute. Yes,

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Speaker 2: But for people who don't remember because that was before

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Speaker 2: the apocalypse or missed that episode, can you introduce yourself

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Speaker 2: to our listeners?

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Speaker 3: Hi, listeners, I am Joe Piazza. As we mentioned, I've

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Speaker 3: been making podcasts for a while, for about seven seven

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Speaker 3: years now. I started out making the podcast Committed and

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Speaker 3: now I produce Under the Influence, which is about all

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Speaker 3: of the ways that the Internet and social media are

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Speaker 3: ruining our lives on a daily basis. And I'm also

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Speaker 3: an author. I write novels about kick women doing adventurous

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Speaker 3: things and The latest one is The Sicilian Inheritance, which

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Speaker 3: is just a delicious romp and murder mystery in Sicily

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Speaker 3: that comes out in April.

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Speaker 1: So the delicious romp makes me know that you really

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Speaker 1: are an author.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, exactly, just a delicious romp everyone, of a murder mystery,

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Speaker 3: of a murder mystery.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, on that note, can you tell us more

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Speaker 2: about the book, because I was reading the description and

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Speaker 2: I'm very interested.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, guys, it's so good. So I will

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Speaker 3: tell you this, and I don't say that lightly, but

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Speaker 3: The Sicilian Inheritance is the best book that I've ever written,

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Speaker 3: and I've written a lot of books. At this point,

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Speaker 3: I finally just sat down and I wrote the book

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Speaker 3: that I would want to read. I want to read

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Speaker 3: something that is fun, that is fun, but also that

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Speaker 3: doesn't make me feel gross or bad about myself. So

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Speaker 3: not just a bunch of smut, even though we've got

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Speaker 3: some smut in the book, but not it's not too

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Speaker 3: much and that you walk away feeling kind of smart.

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Speaker 3: So it's set in two different timelines, and it's loosely

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Speaker 3: based on my own great great grandmother's murder in Sicily

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Speaker 3: about one hundred years ago, and the modern day protagonist

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Speaker 3: returns to Sicily to try to solve her own great

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Speaker 3: grandmother's murder, and they both are confronted with the nefarious

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Speaker 3: forces of the modern day mafia. And they're both strong,

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Speaker 3: headstrong women trying to make it in very male dominated fields.

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Speaker 3: Sarah Fina from nineteen o eight is trying to be

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Speaker 3: a doctor. Sarah is a restauranteur who you know, she's

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Speaker 3: a chef in the very male restaurant world. And it's

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Speaker 3: all set on the beautiful, rugged, and sometimes slightly terrifying

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Speaker 3: island of Sicily. Oh okay, can you guys tell I'm

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Speaker 3: still perfecting my elevator pitch.

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Speaker 2: No, that was great.

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Speaker 1: You got me hooked. I'm like, wait what, I have

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Speaker 1: so many questions because also, like you said, loosely and

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Speaker 1: I was like, loosely based on what? How much? How

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Speaker 1: much of it?

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Speaker 3: So so loosely based? Actually, so it's really and we're

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Speaker 3: gonna we're about to get into podcast territory here. So

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Speaker 3: we All I knew was that my great great grandmother,

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Speaker 3: Lorenza had been murdered back in Sicily. Her husband came

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Speaker 3: to America all her children came to America, she stayed behind.

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Speaker 3: We didn't know why, maybe to sell land or because

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Speaker 3: it was safer for a while, and she was killed

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Speaker 3: before she came over. It's just family life. And for

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Speaker 3: all I knew, it could have been made up because

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Speaker 3: my family's Italian American and their liars they just like

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Speaker 3: they make up stories, right, And so I didn't know.

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Speaker 3: But I was fascinated by this idea of this woman

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Speaker 3: alone in Sicily, and I based my book off that

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Speaker 3: without knowing anything else. But because I'm a massive ambition

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Speaker 3: podcast monster, I decided to create a true crime podcast

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Speaker 3: where I try to solve the actual murder. Oh that

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Speaker 3: we'll be coming out in March before Sicilian Inheritance. The

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Speaker 3: book comes out in April, and we went back to

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Speaker 3: Sicily this summer to try to solve the murder and

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Speaker 3: I'm I'm closer to doing it that I know. I

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Speaker 3: found out so much but digging around in town records,

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Speaker 3: like we found like the entry for her death in

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Speaker 3: the book of deaths in this little Sicilian town, and

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Speaker 3: my producer, Kate Osborne came with me and she recorded everything.

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Speaker 3: So so Cilian Inheritance will be your next favorite novel

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Speaker 3: and also maybe your next favorite podcast. Again, I'm just

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Speaker 3: I'm a monster, I'm a content monk.

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Speaker 1: I let it know that was gonna be. My next

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Speaker 1: question was like, did you actually try to solve this murder?

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Speaker 1: And here we are with a great teaser, and so said,

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Speaker 1: I have to wait until next year.

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Speaker 3: But as an adventure, it's it's actually an adventure, and

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Speaker 3: I think, I mean, I genuinely think all of us

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Speaker 3: kind of want an adventure right now. Life has been weird,

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Speaker 3: so weird lately that I just wanted to create some

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Speaker 3: things that would bring people joy and the right amount

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Speaker 3: of escapism, and I think that we managed to do it.

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Speaker 3: So I'm just I'm really excited about about these these

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Speaker 3: things coming into the world.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing. So I have I have many follow up

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Speaker 2: questions about that, but one of them, oh I will

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Speaker 2: So you have written a lot of books. You have

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Speaker 2: written a lot of books in a lot of different genres.

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Speaker 2: How was this different? You've said like, it was nice

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Speaker 2: to get to write something you really want to read.

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Speaker 2: But also every time I watch like any kind of

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Speaker 2: mystery or a murder mystery, I'm always like, how did

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Speaker 2: did you know the ending? When you started out like

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Speaker 2: leaving all these clues. No, no, I please explain.

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Speaker 3: So I am not woo woo about anything, except now,

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Speaker 3: after doing all of this research, I think I may

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Speaker 3: be like a Sicilian witch or something because some of

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Speaker 3: the stuff that I wrote without in the novel again

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Speaker 3: fiction fiction. It's the Sicilian Inheritance is fiction. But then

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Speaker 3: when I started reporting out my great great grandmother's murder,

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Speaker 3: some of it was the same. Isn't that creepy? It's creepy.

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Speaker 3: But so when I write, and sometimes I co write

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Speaker 3: with another person, my co writer, Christine Pride, and we've

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Speaker 3: done two novels together. We are not like them and

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Speaker 3: you were always And she's an outliner and I drive

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Speaker 3: her crazy because I won't outline. I have a general

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Speaker 3: idea and then I sit down and I write two

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Speaker 3: thousand words and I don't know what's going to happen next,

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Speaker 3: like have a vague But with the Sicilian Inheritance especially,

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Speaker 3: I did not know the ending, like it just popped

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Speaker 3: into my head. And I'm only woo woo about the

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Speaker 3: fact that I think that ideas come when you just

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Speaker 3: like start putting in the work, when you start creating

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Speaker 3: the characters in your head, and it did. It just

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Speaker 3: started coming to me in bits and pieces, and the

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Speaker 3: ending is a real banger. But it was not where

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Speaker 3: I thought we were going. Okay, yeah, yeah, so I know.

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Speaker 3: But most writers that I know like to plot and

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Speaker 3: outline the whole thing and like really know exactly what's

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Speaker 3: gonna happen. It does drive my editors crazy sometimes too,

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Speaker 3: because they're like, so, what's gonna happen at the end

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Speaker 3: of this book that we just bought, And I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Your guess is as good as mine.

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Speaker 3: There will be an ending, but I don't know what

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Speaker 3: it is. They're like, Okay, we have a lot of

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Speaker 3: faith in you, okay.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well by now, yes obviously, because you've written a

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Speaker 1: ton of books that have been successful. So I'm sure

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Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, okay, we know where we get it.

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Speaker 1: We don't want this process.

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Speaker 3: But we know very anxious with this process, but we

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Speaker 3: will get it.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting because I sort of do both. Samantha knows.

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Speaker 2: I'm a planner, like I plan, I outline, but a

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Speaker 2: lot of times when I write, I'm like, you just

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Speaker 2: have to write and see what happens.

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Speaker 3: That's the thing, right, Like you don't know what I

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Speaker 3: just I think that there's magic in it. I really do.

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Speaker 3: I think there's magic in the process and that the

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Speaker 3: reader can also kind of feel that magic. But I

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Speaker 3: will say that I read some novels and I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I can tell you were like sticking to a script,

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Speaker 3: like you had you had an idea of where this

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Speaker 3: is going, and like you just wrote to it. And

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Speaker 3: that's fine, but they you feel a little less magical.

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Speaker 2: To me, right. But then on the other side, you

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Speaker 2: can read things and you're like, you clearly had no

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Speaker 2: plan and thought this was such a moving ending, but

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Speaker 2: it happened.

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Speaker 3: There was nothing that left up to it, but it

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Speaker 3: didn't deliver, didn't.

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Speaker 2: So it's a balance. It's a balance.

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Speaker 3: Its balance, although I will say so I have a

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Speaker 3: lot of the book is out with early readers right now,

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Speaker 3: and we've got I've got a lot of people telling

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Speaker 3: me they end up in tears, and I'm like, good,

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Speaker 3: that's what I want to make you cry. I want

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Speaker 3: to make you cry, so.

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Speaker 2: One of those that's fun, like.

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Speaker 3: A good cry at the end.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: I was invested in this and so I had a

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Speaker 3: good cry. It also makes people hungry, so it's so

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Speaker 3: filled with food. And when I went I wrote it.

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Speaker 3: I wrote most of it before I went back to

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Speaker 3: Sicily this summer. But the only things that I added,

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Speaker 3: and I kept pulling it back from my editor, were

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Speaker 3: more and more food, like I would have one meal, like,

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Speaker 3: oh my gosh, we have to put these to write

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Speaker 3: buttery delicious, like Cornetto's in there, and she's like really,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, yeah, it matters. So I'm telling people

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Speaker 3: like I'm issuing a warning. I'm like, don't read this

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Speaker 3: book if you don't have access to food, like right

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Speaker 3: next to you, like cheese, a nice cheese plate, because

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Speaker 3: you will be starving the second you start reading it.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna eat all things. Well, when you described it

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Speaker 1: as a delicious romp, I was going to ask, is

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Speaker 1: it including a lot of descriptures for Italian food, because

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Speaker 1: that's like the first thing that pops into my head.

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Speaker 1: But no, no, no, that's too cliche.

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Speaker 3: It is soche and that's the thing. I'm like, you

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Speaker 3: know what, I love it filled with food, filled with wine.

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Speaker 3: There's like a sexy Italian dude who's kind of mysterious,

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Speaker 3: like it's got all of the things that you want.

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Speaker 1: And from an Italian, I'm like, I just want to.

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Speaker 3: Deliver man like and you're like, I'm kind of like,

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Speaker 3: this is what I hope for. You're gonna get it.

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Speaker 1: Right, and if it's really well written, that the script

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Speaker 1: is gonna make you want that pasta immediately, like I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna need to fly to Sicily. Actually she's writing about.

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Speaker 3: Well, so when I do all my book clubs, because

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Speaker 3: I've also I mean, I've written a lot of books,

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Speaker 3: and I've done a lot of book events and they

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Speaker 3: can be really boring, and I don't want to do

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Speaker 3: boring book events anymore. So I'm going to be doing

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Speaker 3: Sicilian wine tasting, canola making, pasta making classes, or just

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Speaker 3: events where we just eat and we could talk about

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Speaker 3: the book, but we don't have to. We could just

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Speaker 3: eat food and stare at each other.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna give us a personal invice. You're there friends.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, because we're friends in real life. Now exactly,

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Speaker 3: I'm just nothing. I think now that in my approach

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Speaker 3: to middle age, I have decided I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: do things that don't bring me joy anymore. And like

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Speaker 3: just standing in front of a crowd and reading a

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Speaker 3: book and hate it. So I want to stand in

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Speaker 3: front of a crowd and eat a cannoli or eat

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Speaker 3: nine canolis. That's what makes me happy as.

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Speaker 1: You talk about the book. Maybe maybe not as it

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Speaker 1: would make everybody else happy as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Who doesn't want a cannoli?

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Speaker 3: Everyone wants a cannoli? Like what brings you? What brings

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Speaker 3: my reader's joy? Food? So yes, I will bring that

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Speaker 3: to them. Blows my mind that ninety percent of the

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Speaker 3: events that I have, either they've been my events or

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Speaker 3: I've gone to other people's events, ninety percent of them

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Speaker 3: don't have any wine. And I'm like, this is ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: No one wants it's a crime. It's like, what's a crime?

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Speaker 3: I compare it to children's birthday parties that don't have

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Speaker 3: adult beverages. Oh, I go to a lot of them

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Speaker 3: because I've been breeding for seven years. So I have

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Speaker 3: a six year old, a four year old, and an

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Speaker 3: almost a year old. And when I show up at

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Speaker 3: a kid's birthday party at a play space or something,

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Speaker 3: they don't have wine for me, And like, what do

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Speaker 3: you want me to do for an hour?

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Speaker 4: Here?

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Speaker 3: I don't know anything people, And so just to stare

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Speaker 3: at my children's sober makes small to other parents. I'm

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Speaker 3: not here for that. I am not here for that.

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Speaker 3: I have my four year old's birthday party this week

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Speaker 3: which we we just like go in the park across

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Speaker 3: the street. Like I will not like you know, throw

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Speaker 3: like a bar mitsv level party for these children at

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Speaker 3: this point, but I will make a signature of cocktail

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Speaker 3: for that event. I will indeed for.

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Speaker 2: The grown nuts.

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Speaker 3: Then it's really just and a poloma is what it's

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Speaker 3: going to be.

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Speaker 2: The three pieces, three piece, very important.

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Speaker 3: Delightful, so important.

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Speaker 1: And that's the one I would go to. Like I

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Speaker 1: typically don't go to gatherings in general if they have children,

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Speaker 1: I'm not probably not gonna come just because I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I don't what to do there. But if they offer drinks, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I hate it. But it's like a.

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Speaker 3: No, you don't have open bars off we with our wedding,

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Speaker 3: we decided to keep the bar open during the vows.

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Speaker 3: So Glennis McNicol, who you know is like my collaborator

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Speaker 3: on so many things and my best friend she married us,

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Speaker 3: but she was encouraging people. She's like, if you'd like

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Speaker 3: to go get some more champagne. Cool, Like this is

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Speaker 3: part of it isn't really for you, it's for them.

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Speaker 3: So like you know, mill about get some more drinks

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Speaker 3: and like people still say it was the best wedding

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Speaker 3: they've ever been to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, agreat the first so formal host Kristin Conger. I

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Speaker 1: went to her wedding and they had a pre bar

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Speaker 1: opening so that we wouldn't just stand there and we

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Speaker 1: would have drinks when they were walking down. The all

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Speaker 1: was like, yes, this, I'm in favor. Yeah, let's heave it.

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Speaker 3: Yes exactly. I had champagne while we were sitting up there.

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Speaker 3: Well yeah, yeah, we did a Quaker ceremony. We're not Quakers.

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Speaker 3: I'm just a fan of them. And in a Quaker ceremony,

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Speaker 3: we brought in all of my favorite cultural and religious dropes.

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Speaker 3: Like we did we like sat on chairs and people

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Speaker 3: hoisted us up. And we're definitely not Jewish, but there's

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Speaker 3: so many Jewish friends that they were so skilled about

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Speaker 3: it that they're like, yeah, of course we want to

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Speaker 3: do this at your wedding.

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Speaker 2: We'll help.

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Speaker 3: But we borrowed parts of the Quaker ceremony where anyone

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Speaker 3: can stand up at any time and say anything about you.

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Speaker 3: So it's like the whole crowd does your vows with you,

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Speaker 3: and it's it's really weirdly beautiful, like and people say

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Speaker 3: the wackiest things like my husband's much older half brother

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Speaker 3: so up and was like, I will always help both

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Speaker 3: of you sort out your frequent fire miles, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, thank you. That is also appreciated. Appreciate it,

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Speaker 3: Like I feel like a welcome member of your family.

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Speaker 1: Now that's amazing. Like this entire wedding sounds like another

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Speaker 1: adventure that I'm like, did you write about this as

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Speaker 1: well as part of like a novel? Because it should be.

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Speaker 3: I know, I did write. I wrote about it. I

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Speaker 3: wrote the book How to Be Married, where I traveled

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Speaker 3: around the world asking for advice on how to be

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Speaker 3: a married person because it's so weird, and and I did.

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Speaker 3: I wrote I wrote a little bit about about the

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00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:04,080
Speaker 3: wedding in there, but it was it was just a

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00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,440
Speaker 3: good wedding. It was just fun. Again, like, why would

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Speaker 3: you do something that's not going to be fun?

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00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,320
Speaker 4: Yes, I don't get it, agreed.

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00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And now I'm I'm kicking myself that I've never

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00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,760
Speaker 2: had a night where I just have a cheeseplate and wine,

339
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:18,520
Speaker 2: read a book. Why have I not done that? That

340
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:19,639
Speaker 2: sounds amazing.

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Speaker 3: Exactly exactly. You deserve that. Everybody deserves that. If I'm

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00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,480
Speaker 3: just gonna I'm gonna start randomly when people start pre

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Speaker 3: ordering the book, if they let me know, if they like,

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Speaker 3: send me a receipt, I'm going to make sure that

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Speaker 3: a cheese flight is delivered to their house when the

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00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:40,840
Speaker 3: book gets delivered, like yeah, at pre order it and

347
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,800
Speaker 3: then you'll be like, oh my gosh, this cheese plate

348
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,520
Speaker 3: from do Bruno brother just arrived. I guess it's time

349
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Speaker 3: to sit down and read the Sicilian Inheritance and eat

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Speaker 3: some cheese.

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Speaker 2: That sounds so cooky.

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Speaker 1: Now that I LEAs me want to order like five

353
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:53,120
Speaker 1: so I can get five.

354
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Speaker 3: I have.

355
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Speaker 1: It's a special delivered from the author.

356
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,960
Speaker 3: Because I'm because she's good. Yeah exactly.

357
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Speaker 2: I'm so excited about it, honestly, so.

358
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,680
Speaker 1: With the book. Has any of your family read it yet?

359
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,239
Speaker 3: Yeah? They have? My mom has read it. She just

360
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 3: I just gave her. She stole a galley from my house,

361
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 3: wasn't I had limited galleys and one was missing, and

362
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 3: I'm like, Mom, did you just take this and she's like, yeah,

363
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,280
Speaker 3: I did it. I'm like fine, but like I might

364
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 3: have to reuse it. I might have to give it out,

365
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,800
Speaker 3: like you know, maybe don't eat cheese with your copy

366
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:43,200
Speaker 3: of the book.

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Speaker 1: But no wine, white wine only.

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00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,000
Speaker 3: So she's texting me, She's texting me constantly to be like,

369
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,679
Speaker 3: oh my god, this is really good. And I'm like,

370
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,959
Speaker 3: why do you sound surprised in all of your texts

371
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,160
Speaker 3: and I know how to how to write a book

372
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,200
Speaker 3: at this point. But then also she's like, wait, wait,

373
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,920
Speaker 3: is this person an chio that guide that we had

374
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,840
Speaker 3: when we were in Sicily. And I'm like, no, it's

375
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,399
Speaker 3: a totally different person. It's fiction. It's a novel. But

376
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,359
Speaker 3: she likes it so far. She's she's very into it.

377
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 3: And my family is also very into the fact that

378
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,119
Speaker 3: I'm solving the murder because all of them are on

379
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,760
Speaker 3: the podcast. I invited all of them to come on

380
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,400
Speaker 3: the podcast to tell their version of the story, all

381
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,359
Speaker 3: of which are completely different. And my uncle Jimmy is

382
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,480
Speaker 3: the best because he starts out our conversation saying.

383
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Speaker 5: Joanna, I can't believe that you're you're digging up these

384
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:36,480
Speaker 5: old wounds and this could be this could be really dangerous,

385
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 5: like I can't go back to Sicily and end this vendetta.

386
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 3: And I'm like, what are you talking about, Uncle Jimmy.

387
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 3: You're a like eighty year old judge in Iowa. You're

388
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,320
Speaker 3: not going to Sicily to do anything.

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00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my goodness. Yeah, he's sounding full gangster at

390
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:55,440
Speaker 1: this point.

391
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 3: Because he still smokes like nine packs of Marlborough's a

392
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 3: day again, Judge Iowa, And yeah, and the whole family,

393
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,200
Speaker 3: like everyone. Some people are like, well, she was definitely

394
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 3: a witch and that's why she was killed. And other

395
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 3: people are like, well it was the mafia and that's

396
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,680
Speaker 3: what happened. It was a hit job. But I also

397
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,640
Speaker 3: I was instantly during the research. But I also worked

398
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 3: with Ellis Island and they're amazing. Their researchers are bad.

399
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 3: So they could pull like the exact dates and ship

400
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 3: manifests for when all of her children came and her husband,

401
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,200
Speaker 3: and they also checked to see if her husband went

402
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 3: back to see if maybe he was the one that

403
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 3: murdered her. Like there were all these little things and

404
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,400
Speaker 3: they got like weirdly invested in it too, Like by

405
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 3: the end they're like, well, I think this mighty what happened.

406
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: Everybody has a theory.

407
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 3: I love that everybody has a theory, and like I

408
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,120
Speaker 3: still I have a couple of theories. We're Kate, my producer,

409
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 3: and I are going to go back, I think in

410
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 3: January and like do some final digging with the police.

411
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 3: Reports are really hard to find if they exist at all,

412
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 3: but they might because Italians will love keep records. The

413
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 3: coolest thing really was we found what is their book

414
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,959
Speaker 3: of deaths, which is a handwritten but interesting with every

415
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 3: death recorded in the town. It doesn't say how they died.

416
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,399
Speaker 3: That's the thing. But there are two books of deaths,

417
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 3: and I'm not giving too much away here. One book

418
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,679
Speaker 3: is for people that died in the home of natural

419
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 3: causes and the other book is for people that died

420
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,199
Speaker 3: outside of the home of unnatural causes. And she was

421
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 3: in the second book.

422
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there is a bigger mystery.

423
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, so she was definitely definitely was not natural causes. Like, yeah,

424
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 3: there's there is The mystery is indeed there. So that's

425
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,880
Speaker 3: what we're and we know where she died. We went

426
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 3: to the place where she died.

427
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: Okay, did I miss it? Did you actually solve it?

428
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 3: Or I haven't solved it. I'm still on the road.

429
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 3: I'm still on the road to solving it. No, so

430
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 3: we're going.

431
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 1: Back in January multiple seasons.

432
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 3: I think that we're going to have some good answers

433
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,360
Speaker 3: in this first season that'll start in March for multiple seasons.

434
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 3: I do want to do other family mysteries, though, because

435
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 3: I feel like all so many families have unanswered weird

436
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 3: questions that like, if we can like solve family mysteries

437
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 3: for them, that could be fun.

438
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

439
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the like intriguing and fascinating journey,

440
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 1: especially since it's your great grandmother.

441
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 3: And we found so many crazy cool pictures of her too,

442
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 3: like she looks she looks like a bad like she

443
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 3: looks like she could kill you with her eyes.

444
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: So maybe she was a witch, which is even I know,

445
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: I know, if you find out that she's a witch,

446
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: you have to take that title on, like somehow put

447
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 1: that into.

448
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 3: Business cards. No shame Anywerelian witch?

449
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 4: Hi?

450
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: Thank you uh in the lineage of.

451
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: Witches exactly exactly.

452
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,959
Speaker 1: It's amazing. I'm excited to hear both the podcasts and

453
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 1: read this book. Phenomenal. I'm also excited for the cheese

454
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: plate in the wine that goes with both and showing up.

455
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 3: At your house and like cozy pajamas with both of

456
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:56,360
Speaker 3: them being like heyes.

457
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 1: Please, it's time to read. That's the way, and he

458
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 1: does that. She'll just show up with pajama pants.

459
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 3: And do you really do you like? Do you Kimmy Gibler?

460
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 3: I call it giblering from full House, where you just

461
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 3: show up unexpectedly at a friend's house.

462
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: Expect always in pajama pants.

463
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 2: Pajamas so.

464
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 1: Maybe last night.

465
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: And when when I was a kid, my friends and

466
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 2: I used to do that. We would just like read together. Yeah,

467
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 2: so I would be very into it.

468
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: Yeah yes, yes, but they would surprise me if I

469
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: saw you at the door, like hey I'm here. I'm like, okay, come.

470
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 3: On, yeah, okay, great, let's sit on the couch. All

471
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 3: I want to do now is sit on the couch

472
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 3: with my friends or have low key hangs with my friends.

473
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 3: One of my friends I ran intoor. We were both

474
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 3: working at a coffee shop the other day. She's like,

475
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get my nise done. Do you want to

476
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 3: get your nails? And I'm like, yeah, I do. And

477
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 3: then we just like walked around into errands together and

478
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 3: that was really fun.

479
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: It was really a perfect day.

480
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a perfect day.

481
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: It's nice and I love that I have a friend.

482
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: There's so I'm again very excited about this book. I'm

483
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: very excited about this whole concept because it's such deep,

484
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: like such a deeper meaning. It's not even though it's

485
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: fiction is bigger than fiction. That means it's just expanding,

486
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: it continues to grow. But kind of in general, again,

487
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: like I said before, you are to me a kind

488
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 1: of the celebrity podcaster in my world because I knew

489
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: your name be where I jumped in, I knew about

490
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: your shows committed it was an amazing show and it

491
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: was so amazing, Like, the concept.

492
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 3: Was so amazing people, the people were so good.

493
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 1: You as a podcaster, you really do bring in some

494
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: brilliant adventures in itself, like in this conversations that you have,

495
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: including what you're working on today right now, which is

496
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: Under the Influence. Can you talk a little bit about

497
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 1: that podcast?

498
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, Under the Influence is also also a ton of fun.

499
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 3: I started it three years ago when I had my

500
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 3: second baby, or I'm like, oh my gosh, it must

501
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 3: be four years ago, because I'm having her Pinata's Paloma's

502
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 3: birthday party tomorrow, yeah four years ago. Wow. So she

503
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 3: wouldn't sleep. She was a really crappy sleeper, and I

504
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 3: would hold her because all I could do at night

505
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 3: while she was screaming is hold her. But then my

506
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 3: only appendage available was my thumb. So I'd also be

507
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 3: scrolling through Instagram because I'm a very involved in present parent,

508
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 3: and I would all I was getting served on Instagram

509
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 3: were picture perfect images of influencer moms in their beautiful

510
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 3: white linen dresses with they're all white houses. None of

511
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,479
Speaker 3: them were covered in pee or puke or anything, and

512
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 3: like their kids were all very well behaved, and my

513
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 3: kids have feral animals. And I wanted to start reporting

514
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 3: on it because I was so confused by it. And

515
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 3: the original intention of Under the Influence was to expose

516
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 3: this world of mom influencers to be like, this is

517
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 3: all both and some of it is, And we discovered

518
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 3: that in the first season some of the world of

519
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 3: mom influencers and influencers in general is absolutely bull shit.

520
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 3: But we learned a lot more about what it means.

521
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 3: And so many women are dropping out of the workforce

522
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 3: because the workforce is not kind to women and mothers

523
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 3: and becoming content producers so they can be entrepreneurs and

524
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 3: work for themselves. And we learned a lot about how

525
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 3: the algorithm in all social media platforms is constantly, constantly

526
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 3: manipulating all of our brains and telling us what to

527
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 3: think and telling us how they think we should be.

528
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 3: And so the podcast just expanded from there into looking

529
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 3: at all kinds of digital influence, all kinds of social media,

530
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 3: everything from teacher Graham to nurse Graham to Sobriety Graham.

531
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 3: And we relaunched two months ago, going from seasonal to

532
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 3: weekly and now do two shows a week of Under

533
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 3: the Influence, and we're just doing interviews with everyone from

534
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 3: tradwives who are conservative Christian influencers who portray womanhood as

535
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 3: these ideals from the nineteen fifties, to experts who will

536
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 3: tell you how to talk to your kids about sexting

537
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 3: and in a really empowering way. And it's so fun.

538
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 3: I learned something in every episode. And I think it's

539
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 3: really important for us to cover influence and cover social

540
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 3: media the same way that journalists would cover anything else,

541
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 3: because it impacts way more of our lives than any

542
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 3: of us want to admit in the same way that

543
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 3: I used to be a celebrity journalist, and I thought

544
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 3: that job was very important because celebrities like do have

545
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 3: such a huge impact on humanity and culture and what

546
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 3: people think that they deserve a check and balance system,

547
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 3: and I think influencers deserve that now too, So we're

548
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 3: trying to do that on the show with an also

549
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 3: a dose of joy and hilarity. So I also recommend

550
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 3: people eat cheese while they're listening to under the influence

551
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 3: Everything with Jesus, Everything with cheese is better. We should

552
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 3: let's make t shirts that say that.

553
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: Yes and think you get us.

554
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 2: I think you do. I think you do.

555
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 3: Everything is better what she's I'm gonna make one right now.

556
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: I need this, need you know before we kind of jump,

557
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: because there's other things, Like you said, so many things

558
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: that I want to talk about, including your Halloween costume.

559
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: But before that, can you kind of break down mom

560
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: influencing a little bit because you talk about it and

561
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: just kind of how we got here because you tried

562
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: to expose it. What is it? And how are we here?

563
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 4: Yeah?

564
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 3: Mom influencing And it started to get really big about

565
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 3: eight years ago. Mom blogging has been a thing since

566
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 3: the beginning of the Internet, and in fact, it was

567
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 3: the mom bloggers that were among the pioneers blogging. And

568
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 3: there were women who were writing really openly and honestly

569
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 3: about the good but a lot of the bad of

570
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 3: motherhood and kind of breaking down the stigmas of how

571
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 3: difficult it can be to be a mom, and their

572
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 3: sites took off like wildfire, and they were really among

573
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 3: some of the most popular bloggers out there, and I

574
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 3: don't think they get enough credit for that. In the

575
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 3: early in the histories of early blogging and the early Internet,

576
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 3: I think mom blogging gets very ignored. And then when

577
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 3: social media came around, it started morphing into less words

578
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 3: and more images and particularly beautiful images. And Instagram was

579
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: launched with the intent of being a beautiful photography app.

580
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 3: It was supposed to be the vogue of photography apps.

581
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 3: That's what the ten year old male founders wanted it

582
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: to be. So mom blogging in a lot of ways,

583
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 3: the trajectory then moved into this imagery of motherhood that

584
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 3: wasn't as much talking about the things that are difficult,

585
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 3: but just posting beautiful pictures of it. And in addition

586
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: to those pictures, adding branded content to it. So selling

587
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 3: us things, selling us those beautiful linen nursing dresses, selling

588
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 3: us all manner of the organic pacifiers and blankets and

589
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 3: things none of your kids actually need. Because kids would

590
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 3: be happy sleeping in a box and playing with a

591
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 3: box is my best wisdom as now a mom of three,

592
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 3: And like literally they will sleep in a box and

593
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: they will play with that box. And then you could

594
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 3: flip that box over and use this as a table

595
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 3: and they'll eat off the box. You just need one box,

596
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: one box for child. They can't share the box because

597
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 3: they love their own box. Can not share the box.

598
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 3: But one box per kids. That's the rule in my house.

599
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: Get out of your sister's box. Oh, golden rule, gold

600
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 3: golden rule. People. So yeah, so I mean it took

601
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 3: off and now the mom influencing industry is a multi

602
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 3: billion dollar industry of brands desperate to work with these

603
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 3: very popular mom bloggers who can have tens of thousands,

604
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands, millions of followers. And also they've set up,

605
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 3: you know, this kind of idea that this can be

606
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: a career for a lot of women, and it's a

607
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 3: lot harder than you think it's going to be. In

608
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 3: the first season, I tried to be a mom influencer.

609
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 3: I hired. One of the secrets of it is none

610
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 3: of these pictures are taken in real time. They hire

611
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 3: professional photographers to take an entire week of pictures and

612
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 3: videos or an entire month of pictures and videos where

613
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 3: they change the kids outfits constantly and have them do

614
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 3: all sorts of different things. And we tried to do

615
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: that in my house and everyone put their foot down

616
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 3: after about ten minutes. Like, everyone was crying.

617
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: You know what, I agree with the children of.

618
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 3: This, including my husband. My husband was crying. Everyone was sad.

619
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 3: So it was a lot and we talk a lot

620
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 3: about the dangers for these kids too, like content babies,

621
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,479
Speaker 3: kids that are being used as content, and what are

622
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 3: the implications down the road for their privacy, for their

623
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 3: self esteem, for just you know, generally having their entire

624
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 3: lives put on as a show for complete changers eighteen

625
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 3: years and there are a lot of concerns with that.

626
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 3: The first kids of mommy bloggers and early instagrammers are

627
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 3: finally starting to talk about it, and they're saying, I'm

628
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 3: not happy. I'm not happy that my potty training was

629
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 3: out there on the internet for everyone to see. But again,

630
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 3: the flip side of this is that women are making

631
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 3: their own money and staying home and taking care of

632
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 3: their children, which often feels completely impossible. I've pulled it

633
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 3: off by making podcasts after podcasts and writing books, but

634
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 3: I can't imagine being able to juggle. And we have

635
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 3: full time help too with the babies. My mom lives

636
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 3: right in the next town over, and we have a

637
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 3: full time caregiver here who is wonderful, who we'd love,

638
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 3: and we've been working with for four years now. Like,

639
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 3: we have so much help, and it's still I couldn't

640
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 3: imagine going to an office from nine to six every

641
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 3: day and also having these three children.

642
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: I think Jo, you and I are very similar in age.

643
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think everyone's my age. By the way, it's

644
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 3: something that happens after you turn like forty. Maybe maybe

645
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 3: you're like.

646
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: In my world, everyone's younger than me.

647
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 3: See, I like I've started be like I'll talk to

648
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 3: see like thirty five year old and I'm like, we're

649
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 3: the same age, and they're like we're not. We're we're

650
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 3: like fifty year old women. And I'm like we're definitely

651
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 3: the same age and they're like we're yeah.

652
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: I think that for some reason, but when they're younger

653
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: than me and like, yeah, you're were definitely because I'm

654
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: like I think back when I like when I was

655
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: thirty five, I did do things like that today that

656
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: makes me tired, Like.

657
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 3: The truth that different? Yeah, yeah, well I I'm forty

658
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 3: three now, Yeah, we're the same age, the same age. Yeah, Okay,

659
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 3: I know.

660
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: We've been through something including seeing this play out, like

661
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: we were at the very beginning with the Facebook, with

662
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: the Facebook, with the Facebook, with Facebook, with the Facebook,

663
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: and yeah, my space. I was talking about my zena

664
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: site at one point, which is still I thinks floating

665
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: out there that I can't find anymore.

666
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 4: So bad but.

667
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: It will it will haunt me one But like we did,

668
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: we saw this trend go from uh the blogs to

669
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: to the to faith to the faith place in my space,

670
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 1: uh to Instagram to now TikTok and now we're having

671
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: this comeback conversation of what happened to those kids? Uh

672
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: where we're going back to like how they're reacting to

673
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: Also the one extreme of like this was a beautiful

674
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: thing because it did give uh so many women opportunity. Unfortunately,

675
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: this beautiful thing was limited to very heteronormative CIS white women,

676
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: and so that look like there was big narratives like

677
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: this could be a good thing, but it's not broadening

678
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: as it's as we would had hoped with the Internet world.

679
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's not. And it's the the Instagram algorithm

680
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 3: is so specific. It also shows you images of people

681
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 3: that it believes are like you I or people that

682
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 3: it believes are perhaps aspirational to you because the algorithm

683
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 3: tells you that, that tells them that that will keep

684
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: you scrolling as we're constantly trying to look for aspirational

685
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 3: images even though it breaks our brains. And so I

686
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 3: have a lot of people ask me, no, well, I know,

687
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 3: they say, I never see influencers of color, And the

688
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 3: fact is, yes, like the highest paid influencers are shame

689
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 3: shamefully typically these white women who look like the white

690
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 3: women that were put in commercials in like the eighties, right,

691
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 3: And that's finally starting to be exposed. But the fact is,

692
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 3: there are so many awesome mom influencers out there, women

693
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 3: of color, queer women, There's like so many. It's just

694
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 3: if you happen to be a white CIS woman. You're

695
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 3: probably not being shown them by the Instagram algorithm because

696
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 3: the Instagram algorithm doesn't think that they are similar to you.

697
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 3: So it's like you have to dig a little deeper.

698
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 3: And that sucks, right, because I want to be shown

699
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 3: so many different types of mothers, so many different models

700
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 3: of parenting. I want. I want to see two moms,

701
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 3: I want to see two dads. I want to see

702
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: all of these different ways of being a parent in

703
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 3: the world. But it only chooses to show you parenting

704
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 3: that it thinks is very similar to you.

705
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

706
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 2: One thing we talked about a lot on the show.

707
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: To be clear, even though a lot of people mistake

708
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 2: this because of the name of the show, Somantha and

709
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 2: I are not moms.

710
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 3: Do people mistake that.

711
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: All the time, We've been put on list for moms

712
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: who listen.

713
00:36:54,960 --> 00:37:00,720
Speaker 2: To mom influencers.

714
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: Just because the word mom is in it in Twitter. Yeah,

715
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: on Twitter unfortunately, this mom podcast or mom stuff podcast.

716
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.

717
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a bad like it was way back when.

718
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: I think stuff mom never told you was taken or

719
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: something like that.

720
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,280
Speaker 3: So I've always thought of it as like your people

721
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 3: human beings in the world with mothers.

722
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, if you read the title, yeah, that makes sense.

723
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: But then like a lot of just and then we

724
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 1: get advertisers who really think we are too. We've gotten,

725
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 1: we've had to. We we not had to, but we advertise,

726
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: which we don't mind because we still obviously want to

727
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: talk about mothers because they are a part of this

728
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: conversation in the But like the fact that we're not. Yeah,

729
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: like I'm not excluding that, But at the same time,

730
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: I'm yeah, but we're not experts. We don't know. I

731
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 1: was a nanny, yes, and I've worked with children. That

732
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: was my whole like field as a social worker, I

733
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: worked with children, But I'm like, that doesn't mean I

734
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: know it looks like to be a mother. I can

735
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: be a caretaker. That completely different.

736
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 3: But again, well, and being a caretaker also hard, also

737
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 3: a pain. It's all a penny to be honest. I

738
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 3: love my children so much, but they're a.

739
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: Lot, that's honest. I like it.

740
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 2: So, yes, you're not mothers, but we do talk about

741
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: motherhood a lot on the show, and we have. We

742
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: had a friend of the show guest Bridget come on

743
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: and she did a whole thing about influencing and how

744
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 2: it impacts children. She talked about that, but one of

745
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: the things I find really interesting about this conversation is

746
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 2: there's sort of a dichotomy and a complexity and a

747
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: nuance with Yes, there is a power of showing the

748
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 2: mess of motherhood. There is an absolute power of talking

749
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 2: about that, not having this perfect thing, because the pressure

750
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 2: for so long that we've seen in all kinds of

751
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,959
Speaker 2: media is to be the perfect mother, that you're never

752
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 2: mad at your kids, you never have this anger. But

753
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 2: at the same time, it's also like you're bringing the

754
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 2: kids to show in that mess. So it's sort of

755
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 2: like the complexity there of there is something that is

756
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 2: really helpful in that, but what are the ways to

757
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 2: do that without harming the kids in question?

758
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 3: Without harming them absolutely, I mean I think about everything

759
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 3: that I say, and I post way less of my

760
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 3: kids than I ever did before since I started reporting

761
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 3: on the impact of them emotionally, psychologically, and also just

762
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 3: the creepiness of strangers following you on the internet. My

763
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 3: rule is that before I post, I look at the

764
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 3: picture and I'm like, if I would not walk up

765
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 3: to the creepiest dude in Starbucks, like the guy who's

766
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 3: like sitting there staring on his phone, drooling a little bit.

767
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 3: If I wouldn't show this picture to that dude and

768
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: be like, do you want to look at his picture

769
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 3: of my children, then I will not post it on

770
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 3: social media because that is clearly in my audience. And

771
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 3: I so I do post a lot less. But I mean,

772
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 3: like I said, I talk about them all the time

773
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 3: and like, my kids are filthy animals, which they are.

774
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 3: So I also think I'm like, all right, I am

775
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 3: I saying anything that I would be uncomfortable if they

776
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 3: heard me say about them, and know, like I tell them, like,

777
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 3: you guys are filthy animals, and I'm very tired from

778
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 3: being your mother, and so I think those things are okay.

779
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 3: But there's other lines that I see crossed all the time,

780
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 3: and I try not to be judgmental. I think I

781
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 3: think it's creepy to post pictures of your kids when

782
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 3: they're sleeping. You do, just like you know, they're so

783
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 3: innocent and they don't know what you're doing, like potty

784
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 3: training pictures and videos will come back to haunt them

785
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 3: later or they'll just be embarrassed.

786
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: Uh.

787
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 3: I was talking to a parenting expert or a social

788
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 3: media parenting expert the other day, and she said, you know,

789
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 3: even things as little as posting a picture of your

790
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 3: eight year old in their footy pajamas with their stuffed animals,

791
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 3: they might not want you to do that because their

792
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 3: friends might not think they still sleep with stuffed animals

793
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 3: or footy pajamas, and what if their friends saw that, So,

794
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 3: you know, putting yourself in your kid's shoes. But I

795
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 3: do agree that I think it's important to share the

796
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 3: hard parts of motherhood and the messiness because the Internet

797
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 3: has just gone too far into making it seem like

798
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 3: we have to be perfect all the time and perfect

799
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 3: and beautiful and also smart and brave and funny and

800
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 3: just the best and also sexy, and so I try

801
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 3: to be really honest that, like, I love my kids

802
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 3: so much more than I thought I would love having kids.

803
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 3: Like I was never a person that was like, oh

804
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 3: my gosh, I must must approcreate. But I love them,

805
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 3: and now there's three of them, which is way more

806
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 3: children than I expected to be in my house. But

807
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 3: I'm also exhausted and it's hard, and I wouldn't not

808
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 3: be their mother for anything, But like, sometimes I also

809
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 3: leave and I go on vacation without them and my

810
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 3: husband and that's really nice. So yeah, yeah, it's important,

811
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 3: so I have to leave. That's that's why I show

812
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 3: up ATR house with cheese plates. But they yes, I

813
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 3: think it's it's a double edged like how much should

814
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 3: we post about our lives as mothers and how much

815
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 3: should we protect our children? And it's something everyone needs

816
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 3: to figure out for themselves. But also I do think

817
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 3: that these companies that are just making money off of

818
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 3: the images of our children Instagram, Facebook, TikTok really should

819
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 3: put more guardrails in place about what kinds of images

820
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 3: of children are allowed and also then how early children

821
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 3: themselves are allowed to be on social media.

822
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this. There's a whole different level of conversation

823
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: when it comes to who has access, who has control,

824
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: who's making money. Now with AI, it's even scarier because

825
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: people are able to use images to create their own

826
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: fantasy world. We recently talked with one of the I

827
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 1: guess they work with one of the bigger AI companies

828
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: right now, imaging companies, and I have someone that I

829
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 1: know has worked with them as well, and the amount

830
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 1: of real images they can backtrack to see some of

831
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,439
Speaker 1: the images that are on their AI, and no one's

832
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: stopping them them saying like there's no litigation or a

833
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: law saying that they can't use it. So that's even scarier.

834
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: That's something that people need to realize. I don't think

835
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: when we as we use as the internet started and

836
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: we were like, this is cool, we can share things

837
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: with our friends, ever thought that this would be the

838
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: point that it could become.

839
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 3: No, no, we did. We didn't. And I think about

840
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 3: that note now too, and that is something I did

841
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 3: not think about even six months ago, that every time

842
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 3: I post an image of my child, that image will

843
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 3: likely be used by AI in some way, shape.

844
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 1: Or form, right, yeah, which is scary.

845
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 3: Which is scary? Yeah, yeah, which is a whole different cover,

846
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 3: a whole different conversation. And also everything is I mean

847
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 3: my When that list came out from the Atlantic recently,

848
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 3: of the books that AI was using, or that these

849
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 3: companies were using to train their AI machines, four of

850
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 3: my books were on there, and my first thought was

851
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 3: what was wrong with my other books?

852
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: Wait? Did you not be like wait, fine.

853
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's terrifying. I think you know, our children's

854
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 3: faces can be used to train AI or they to

855
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 3: make deep fakes of our children. I heard some really

856
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 3: scary stories from influencers with large followings where strangers had

857
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 3: tried to imitate them because they knew enough about them

858
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 3: and their kids to try to pull their kids out

859
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 3: of school. Oh wow, but they know it because you

860
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 3: post the first day of school picture. They know the

861
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 3: kids teacher, they know where they go to school, they

862
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 3: know what they like and what they don't like. They

863
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,760
Speaker 3: have a picture of it, and they have a picture

864
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 3: of the parents, and they know everything about the parents.

865
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 3: So like, yeah, it's creepy. It's a creepy, creepy dark place.

866
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: It is.

867
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 3: It is.

868
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: Oh, speaking of creepy.

869
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 3: Dark places, my favorite.

870
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: This is my transition because also I looked into your

871
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 1: sub sec and one of the things that we've talked

872
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: about recently is lot about Christian nationalism in our country.

873
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: We've talked about religious trauma in itself, and of course

874
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 1: that brings us to the conversation of moms and tradwives. Yes,

875
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: we had this whold like we went to the red

876
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,720
Speaker 1: pill of everything, and you have been talking about trad

877
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: wives as well as In fact, if listeners, if you

878
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: have a chance go. If you're not already following Joe,

879
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: you need to follow her both substack in Istoriam to

880
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 1: look at these amazing costume that she has created. You

881
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: done an amazing job. I loved your descriptor about having

882
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: the helmet, the bike helmet. Yeah, it was so good.

883
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: And then by the way, I loved your book.

884
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 3: Being the baby love crazy thing. So I will say,

885
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 3: but I've for under the influence of the podcast, I

886
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 3: have been talking about trade wives for the past two weeks.

887
00:45:54,320 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 3: These like most mainly pretty conservative Christian influencers who are

888
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 3: submissive to their husbands. They you know, they have all

889
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 3: of these rules of like I don't do anything without

890
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 3: asking my husband permission, I don't have my own finances,

891
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 3: I don't work outside the home, very devoted to being

892
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 3: in the home and raising children. And I like to

893
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,919
Speaker 3: make the distinction that is very different than a stay

894
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 3: at home mom, Like I respect the out of stay

895
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,240
Speaker 3: at home moms. You are the CEO of a household

896
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 3: that is a hard job, like that is tidwife is

897
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 3: not stay at home mom. They're very very different things.

898
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 3: We've been talking about a lot of them, and they

899
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 3: also they're very into homesteading, they make a lot of

900
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 3: their own food from scratch, but they also project all

901
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 3: of these what I think can be very dangerous values.

902
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 3: A lot of them are anti vaxers, a lot of

903
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 3: them are very anti LGBTQ. You know, there are behind

904
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 3: all of the beautiful baked sourdough loaves, there are some

905
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 3: nefarious influencers there, influences there, and I've been talking about

906
00:46:58,160 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 3: it so much. I was like, well, this is obviously

907
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 3: my house Halloween costume. What else would I be for Halloween?

908
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 3: And so I put on an applaid nap dress and

909
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 3: I stuffed. A lot of them are pregnant constantly. They

910
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 3: have a lot of content babies because they get more

911
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,919
Speaker 3: attention every time they get pregnant. And also they likely

912
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 3: don't believe in birth control, and so yeah, there's that

913
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 3: part of it. And so I was like, I looked

914
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 3: like I was thirteen months pregnant with this bike helmet in,

915
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 3: my spanks in under my nap dress. And then I

916
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 3: made like an Instagram frame to go around me. Yes,

917
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 3: but it was really funny because that is a costume

918
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 3: and I couldn't carry the Instagram frame, like I had

919
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 3: a cardboard cutout of like hashtag chad wife. I couldn't

920
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 3: carry it while I was trigger treating with three kids,

921
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 3: and so it was a hard costume to explain to people.

922
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 3: And like a lot of people just assumed I was

923
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 3: pregnant and offered to get me a chair and I'm like, no,

924
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 3: I'm a conservative Christian influencers kind of like oh what okay.

925
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 3: And then it didn't help that that I was carrying

926
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 3: a can of beer down the street and I forgot

927
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,959
Speaker 3: that I had this pregnant belly, and so then people

928
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 3: are really looking at me and I'm like, what's Halloween.

929
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 3: Everyone's drinking here. And then I'm like, oh, they think

930
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 3: I'm mind pregnant. So yeah, that was It was a

931
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 3: great costume. But I as I was dressed up, I

932
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 3: was like, I know that this will break the d

933
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 3: like break my Instagram feed because the Instagram algorithm loves

934
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 3: pregnant bellies. They love pregnant bellies. They love it when

935
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 3: you say that like a baby was just born, birth announcements,

936
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 3: they love newborns. So I was like, what if I

937
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 3: with it because my book posts about Sicilian inheritance, like

938
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 3: get like moderate attention because Instagram doesn't think that's interesting,

939
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 3: and so I'm like, what if I pretend I'm giving

940
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 3: birth to my book? And so I do that as

941
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 3: like a book reveal. I originally had like a whole

942
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 3: home birth like video that I was gonna do it.

943
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's too much, it's too much, and my

944
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,319
Speaker 3: husband's like, it's already too much. Stop and I'm like,

945
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 3: you know who you married, It's okay, knew you knew

946
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 3: what you were getting into. I wrote a book about

947
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 3: our first year of marriage. But yeah, I but then

948
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 3: I did do a book reveal of me holding the

949
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 3: book like it was a newborn baby, and my Instagram

950
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 3: feed went wild. I got it's not just that people

951
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 3: liked it, like and people liked it because it was funny,

952
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 3: it was a joke and like a lot of my

953
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 3: friends liked it. But you can look at the insights

954
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 3: and the statistics, and Instagram showed it to more people

955
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 3: outside my feed, and it's ever shown to people outside

956
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 3: my feed. It chose to share that content, and I

957
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 3: think that's what's interesting, Like it chooses to give you

958
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 3: more reach if you are this constantly pregnant woman showboating

959
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 3: your newborn baby, and that's a problem and that's something

960
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 3: that we should all talk about.

961
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: That's too much work. It's too much big and smy,

962
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: I won't have to worry about me doing that. That's okay,

963
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: I'll just benn. It's okay, good.

964
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 5: Yeah.

965
00:49:54,160 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: Oh, back to the trad wives, because it is. It's

966
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: a fascinating conversation. We had that conversation about a lot

967
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,479
Speaker 1: of the reason. Part of the reason that they're having

968
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: so many children is part of their conspiracy. Could lead

969
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: to the fact that they think that the supreme race

970
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: is dying off, so now more white people need to

971
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: be having babies, and that being a part of that conversation.

972
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: The pipeline from being a yoga mom to trad wives

973
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: is very is shorter than you would.

974
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 3: Sure then you would expect, you would expect.

975
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: Can you kind of talk about all of that there?

976
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 3: So there's something also called soft girls on on the

977
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 3: tiktoks and the instagrams. I'm so old and like the

978
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 3: tiktoks and they so soft girls are. They're like soft

979
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 3: girls are very similar to and not all so it's

980
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,760
Speaker 3: kind the language is so confusing, and I'm constantly convinced

981
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get canceled. At this point, in time. I'm like,

982
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 3: I don't care, but like I'll go do something else.

983
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 3: It's fine, you can't see me. I'll become like a

984
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 3: dog walker or something. I don't give a show, but

985
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,760
Speaker 3: I just say what I want. But so there's soft

986
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 3: girls who say I want to drop out of the workforce.

987
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 3: I don't want to hustle. I don't want to be

988
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 3: your girl boss. I'm just gonna like do my yoga

989
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 3: and my pilates all day and like meditate and lay

990
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 3: in the grass with my lover and stay at home

991
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 3: girlfriends who are the trad wife version of a girlfriend,

992
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 3: where they're just they live to serve their boyfriend. And

993
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 3: there's all these videos of like, my boyfriend takes me

994
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,879
Speaker 3: on expensive vacations, if I pack for him, and if

995
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 3: I do all of this stuff, and like videos of

996
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 3: them cleaning the house all day and cooking for the

997
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 3: boyfriend all day. And you know that does seem to

998
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 3: then evolve often into the tradwife's submissive wife lifestyle. And

999
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 3: like you said, there is this undercurrent of you know,

1000
00:51:54,960 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 3: restoring the patriarchy, restoring a very male dominated white world. Yes,

1001
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 3: you should have more white babies. Why aren't you out

1002
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,399
Speaker 3: there pro creating for the race, and there is it's

1003
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 3: a dark, scary rabbit hole to go down. And I

1004
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 3: think the messaging is so hard to parse sometimes because

1005
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 3: it comes in a beautiful package. And that's what I

1006
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 3: think is the most dangerous about it. And when I

1007
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 3: say beautiful, I mean, you know, not even beautiful in

1008
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 3: my definition, but in this esthetic that the Internet likes,

1009
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 3: and so it comes in that package. That's like, you

1010
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 3: too could stay at home and look like this and

1011
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 3: have all of your lovely, quiet children running all over

1012
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 3: the place. Why would you ever want to be on

1013
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 3: the birth control pill? And I meanwhile, I'm like, do

1014
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 3: you want to look at my house? Because that'll make

1015
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 3: you get a sec to me. I mean, there's a

1016
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 3: reason Nick finally got snapped. He's like, well, you're not

1017
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 3: doing this again. We didn't think it was going to

1018
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 3: happen the third time. We were all old when that happened,

1019
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 3: but we were just old. It's perfect, no, never too

1020
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 3: old apparently to make a third baby Inargo, North Dakota.

1021
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 3: But they yeah, it's a it's a really, it's just

1022
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 3: it's it's a scary part of the Internet and also

1023
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 3: a fascinating one, like I have so many people that

1024
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 3: listen to uh under the Influence or followed the pot

1025
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 3: the substack, Like I didn't know anything about this. Screw you.

1026
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 3: I've now lost hours of my life going down this

1027
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:34,919
Speaker 3: rabbit hole. And I'm like, yeah, I know, sorry, not sorry.

1028
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 3: I mean now that I see everyone will see it.

1029
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: Right, we all suffer together, we.

1030
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,280
Speaker 3: All suffer together. Yes, we suffer equally.

1031
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And I think listeners you should definitely go

1032
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 2: check out Under the Influence because you do talk a

1033
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:53,720
Speaker 2: lot about mom influencing, but you also talk about cancer

1034
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 2: influencing or just various ways like tradwives and and all

1035
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 2: these ways which the internet is harmful in ways that

1036
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 2: you think like there are benefits to it, but also

1037
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 2: these real dark sides because people are trying to make

1038
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 2: money ultimately, Like they're trying to make money.

1039
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,959
Speaker 3: Ultimately the goal for most people as money. That's the thing.

1040
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 3: Like I think that's just what everyone has to remember.

1041
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 3: I think you can still enjoy social media, but you

1042
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 3: have to think about who makes money off what. Yes, right,

1043
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 3: So it's and I like you mentioned, I just did

1044
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 3: an episode on cancer influencing when I had on this

1045
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 3: woman Kelly, who was diagnosed with breast cancer, and she

1046
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 3: started following a lot of cancer influencers and at first

1047
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 3: it was great because she's like, oh my gosh, like

1048
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 3: there's a community here and that that should be wonderful.

1049
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 3: And she was getting tips on diet and tips on

1050
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 3: coping with different kinds of chemo and things like that. Again,

1051
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 3: good things, right, And then all of a sudden, she

1052
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 3: just kept following more people and the advice that she

1053
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 3: was getting was very con inflicting. There were people who

1054
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 3: were telling her not to do traditional treatment, that doctors

1055
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 3: were the devils, convincing her to essentially eat nothing but

1056
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 3: raw vegetables all the time, so that she just had

1057
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 3: a fear of any other kind of food. And it

1058
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,439
Speaker 3: got to be too much, and she said she saw

1059
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 3: a lot of people in the cancer community reject a

1060
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 3: lot of traditional treatments, and then she saw some of

1061
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 3: them even pass away. And she's like, these influencers have

1062
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 3: so much power, so much power, and none of it

1063
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 3: is checked. No one is saying, hey, you're an expert

1064
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 3: in this, go forth and talk. It's just like anyone

1065
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,760
Speaker 3: can say anything they want on the internet.

1066
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's is terrifying and has been the case.

1067
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 2: Lawsuits have been brought against people, but it's true, like

1068
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 2: you trust people that you see online, you form these

1069
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 2: parasocial relationships. And if they're telling you like, oh no,

1070
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 2: I you know, I'm with you. This is community by

1071
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 2: this at work for me. But if there's no checks

1072
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 2: on that, if they're just saying that because they're going

1073
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 2: to get that day check, then it's irresponsible and dangerous.

1074
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 3: Yes, irresponsible and dangerous exactly exactly. Oh, guys, from cheeseplates

1075
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 3: to irresponsible and dangerous dark places of the Internet.

1076
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 2: We did. We should all get a cheese after this.

1077
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,240
Speaker 3: Let's all just go eat cheese. It's all eat cheese

1078
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 3: and drink wine in a dark room. In a dark room.

1079
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna whisper these pajama pants. Absolutely absolutely, I'm.

1080
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 3: Wearing pajama pants right now. I haven't gotten out of

1081
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:42,760
Speaker 3: my pajamas today.

1082
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 2: Is how in Atlanta right now?

1083
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 3: It's cold and hiley right now.

1084
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will.

1085
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 3: I will be doing something in Atlanta for when the

1086
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 3: Sicilian inheritance comes out, So we.

1087
00:56:58,560 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: Will cheese plate.

1088
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 3: Well, I mean there's that, That's the reason I'm coming.

1089
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 3: But then I may also obviously be doing a book

1090
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 3: event and Alive under the Influence podcast event down there.

1091
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 3: So we're planning all these things, so you will have

1092
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 3: to come and be on the show with me.

1093
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 2: Let us know.

1094
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 3: On the show, Yeah an cheese and yeah, perfect follow

1095
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 3: She'll bring you cheese.

1096
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: She'll bring you cheese. She endorses everything with live of

1097
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 1: the followers. Well, it's gotten all the followers and me

1098
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: as the best. Yeah, I've got please got you.

1099
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 2: No, I don't want.

1100
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 3: To make such of influence people.

1101
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: You've learned for me, it's just to stalk them and

1102
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: tell them with friends until they the cheese approaches better.

1103
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 5: I mean better.

1104
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 1: That's how I made friends with Annie.

1105
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 2: You also do the cheese approach. You also do the

1106
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 2: cheese approach, Samantha, I did.

1107
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: That's how I got friends with Annie.

1108
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 2: It's true, and now she's on the show.

1109
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 1: I had two giant platters. Look at it and now

1110
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 1: show Jesus the way, Jesus the way.

1111
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 3: That is a pun Jesus the way, anyway, Jesus the way.

1112
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 2: We We did have more questions for you, but we've

1113
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 2: already taken it up so much of your.

1114
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 3: Time, so you just you'll just have to come back,

1115
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 3: come back, guys, I will always come back. I love

1116
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 3: it here ken.

1117
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 2: Awesome, awesome.

1118
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: You know, I think we've been talking for a good

1119
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: two hours.

1120
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 3: We've been talking for an hour and a half. Guys,

1121
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 3: keep going. You never Actually I have to go pick

1122
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 3: up my kids from school at some point.

1123
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, well all right, then I can always pick

1124
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 2: everything up. Well, can you tell the good listeners where

1125
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 2: they can find you, what they can look forward to

1126
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 2: from you?

1127
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1128
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 3: Of course, Like we talked about a lot, the Sicilian

1129
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 3: Inheritance is coming out in April, but you can all

1130
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 3: pre order it now, which really matters because it determines

1131
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:01,439
Speaker 3: where we go for events, and like I said, those

1132
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 3: events are going to have wine and cheese, So order

1133
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 3: your copy now. Let me know. I'm on the Instagram

1134
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 3: at Joe Piazza author. I always think that it's ironic

1135
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 3: that the best place to find me is Instagram because

1136
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 3: I hate it so much, but it is. It works,

1137
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 3: and until there's something that works, you know, in the

1138
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 3: same way, I'll just keep doing it. But I'm also

1139
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 3: I also have a sub stack over the Influence that

1140
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 3: is linked to the Under the Influence podcast, which comes

1141
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 3: out twice weekly and is everywhere that you find your podcasts.

1142
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 2: Yes, awesome, awesome, Thank you so much for being here.

1143
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 3: Guys, this was so fun. I can't wait to see

1144
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 3: you in person. We're gonna have so much fun when

1145
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 3: I come to Atlanta.

1146
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes. And if you would like to find

1147
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 2: us listeners, you can. We have an email at a

1148
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 2: stuff media Momsteff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find

1149
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 2: us on Twitter at mostaf Podcasts, or on Instagram and

1150
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 2: TikTok at Stephane never told you. We do have a

1151
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 2: tea public story. You can get merchandise, and we all

1152
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 2: have a book. You can get it wherever you get

1153
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 2: your books or audio books. Thanks as always to our

1154
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 2: super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and her contributor Joey.

1155
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks to you for listening. Stefan never

1156
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 2: told you the production of I Heart Radio. For more

1157
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 2: podcasts or my Heart Radio, you can check out the

1158
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 2: Heart Radio, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your

1159
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 2: favorite shows.