Speaker 1: Be Around the NFL Podcast once more preseason games. Welcome
Speaker 1: to another edition of the Around the NFL Podcast. My
Speaker 1: name is Dan Hansis. I come to you from a
Speaker 1: virtual room filled with some heroes, Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler. Boys.
Speaker 1: The week rolls on training camps opening up. It looks
Speaker 1: like my boy, Zack Wilson even signed a contract. I
Speaker 1: thankfully tried to steer myself out of all the mentions
Speaker 1: and the trolling going on in my direction about that
Speaker 1: it was gonna happen Zaxxon camp. Now the NFL season
Speaker 1: can start. Yeah, Zack? Yeah? I mean story like no, Yeah,
Speaker 1: rookie holdouts, training camp holdouts there, they're a thing in
Speaker 1: the past. There literally was not a training camp hold out.
Speaker 1: I guess. I guess Zack Wilson was, was it? But
Speaker 1: he doesn't that he wasn't under contracts. That doesn't even count.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty soft hold out. I mean, was there any
Speaker 1: drama that he was gonna not show up for weeks?
Speaker 1: I mean he was officious enough to get on a
Speaker 1: red eye flight last night, then promised he would do
Speaker 1: Something's day. I took one of those um to the
Speaker 1: East Coast a couple of weeks ago and was an
Speaker 1: absolute mess on the other side. So I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know. Uh, we'll see. It's a sign he doesn't
Speaker 1: take football seriously as like Mac Jones. Mac Jones is
Speaker 1: like a grinder. He was he told his age and
Speaker 1: just like get me in there. Just I love ball.
Speaker 1: I want to be out there competing with Cam Newton.
Speaker 1: I don't want Mike White or whoever's thrown passes James
Speaker 1: Morrigan for the jet. I don't want them, you know,
Speaker 1: ruining practice for a couple of days. Like I love ball, um,
Speaker 1: But much like the Detroit Lions a few years ago,
Speaker 1: Zach Wilson just shows up a few days later. Can you, Ricky?
Speaker 1: Can you put some like echo on my voice? I
Speaker 1: want to tell you about mac jones inner monologue in
Speaker 1: his first pro training camp. Is that how like he
Speaker 1: just threw a pass like damn it? Why am I
Speaker 1: not having fun? I thought I would get to the
Speaker 1: fl and I'd be having the time of my life.
Speaker 1: Why is this? This coach is so mean? Where's the joy?
Speaker 1: No one smiles up here? Everyone smiled at my old college.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Nick Saban, there's a ball of laughs, and
Speaker 1: no one here who was that in my year. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I want to go back to the way
Speaker 1: it was or do another team. I guess I'll have
Speaker 1: to wait four to five years. That's what's going on
Speaker 1: in his head right now. Nobody has fun up there.
Speaker 1: Well that's shaky too, that's very shaky. That's if that's true,
Speaker 1: all right, when winning is fun. That's what Patrick Chung
Speaker 1: responded when when this this, I do like this topic
Speaker 1: comes up a lot in New England, whether they're having
Speaker 1: fun or not. Somehow that's become important. Well, here's here's
Speaker 1: the problem. Here's the problem. You can run like a
Speaker 1: no nonsense, no levity operation as long as you win
Speaker 1: a super Bowl every other year. But what happens if
Speaker 1: you stop winning super Bowls all the time? Is that
Speaker 1: ac gonna work? As your coach gets older and older?
Speaker 1: I listen, I'm not I'm not saying gradual decline for
Speaker 1: Bill Belichick, but I am kind of saying it. I
Speaker 1: don't know if his game is gonna work. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was a steep decline last year. So he's he's um,
Speaker 1: He's facing a big season. His defense, he's a defensive
Speaker 1: coach stunk. Even the Brady stuff like his defense stunk.
Speaker 1: He needs he needs to bounce back. I think he'll
Speaker 1: get it um to some degree. On defense, there's a
Speaker 1: little tease for our our guests there erin shots. He believes,
Speaker 1: or at least his numbers believe that the Patriots are
Speaker 1: gonna get it. They have the Patriots looking like a
Speaker 1: Patriots team from two years ago, surprising. Is there any
Speaker 1: scenario and now all the Patriots listeners gonna get on
Speaker 1: Twitter and everywhere else and say, what an ass player?
Speaker 1: But is there any scenario where Bill Belichick is ever
Speaker 1: on the hot seat? Like, well, Robert Kraft ever have
Speaker 1: to fire Bill Belichick? Could that? Well Tom Landry got
Speaker 1: fired in Dallas, that was ownership change. Maybe it would
Speaker 1: have to be something like that. Otherwise Bill can just
Speaker 1: ride this thing out however long you want, you think.
Speaker 1: I think that's that's probably right. But I do think
Speaker 1: there is a scenario where Bill Belichick and Robert Kraft
Speaker 1: stopped getting along for whatever reason, And you would imagine
Speaker 1: that it would have to do with losing, And that
Speaker 1: to me, could happen anytime, because I think there's always
Speaker 1: there's just like a little bit of a little bit
Speaker 1: of tension there in terms of who's the boss and
Speaker 1: if things ever went south, I think that's what would happen.
Speaker 1: But ultimately it would probably be up to Bill Belichick.
Speaker 1: Bill Belichick will leave when he wants to. I think
Speaker 1: the one thing that he's learned. I mean, if you
Speaker 1: read any of his sort of autobiographical you know books,
Speaker 1: are some great ones out there that what happened to
Speaker 1: him with Art Modele and Cleveland made him realize that
Speaker 1: ownership is so important. So Dan, the thing you're suggesting, Well,
Speaker 1: let's say a new owner comes in and wants to
Speaker 1: sweep everything out. It's a Tom Landry type figure. I
Speaker 1: think Belichick would be like, there's no way I'm signing
Speaker 1: up with a new owner. I mean crafts, Crafts not
Speaker 1: going anywhere that that thing is staying and in there
Speaker 1: you hand it off to the craft child and then
Speaker 1: then that child's child. Uh. He famously went to New
Speaker 1: England because he wasn't comfortable with the ownership structure in
Speaker 1: coming with the Jets, which turned out to be a
Speaker 1: very smart move by Mr Belichick. All Right, enough of that, Yes,
Speaker 1: Aaron Schatz is coming on. Aaron Schatz is the godfather
Speaker 1: of d v O a where the Father. I don't know,
Speaker 1: because father is better than godfather. Godfather is like a
Speaker 1: title of respect. You're like the don. Greg still hasn't
Speaker 1: seen the movie, so this is all going over his head.
Speaker 1: But um, the last there, Yeah, it's kind of embarrassing
Speaker 1: when you're the father of something, you created it, and
Speaker 1: he did create d v O A. So Aaron Schatz
Speaker 1: is on the show. Uh, he's great Football Outsiders almanac
Speaker 1: just dropped and we're going to dig into a few
Speaker 1: of his team projections that jumped out to us. But
Speaker 1: before we do that, let's hit the news nine in
Speaker 1: New Orleans, Louisiana. Little Romeo is a sin of music legends.
Speaker 1: Rappers must have pay and so can you say find it?
Speaker 1: Just five years old after he rapped through his dops,
Speaker 1: Little Romeo hit the big time in the early two
Speaker 1: thousands when his debut single went platinum. Alright, Greg, let
Speaker 1: me break this down. So Greg, on the last show,
Speaker 1: we delved into a hip hop conversation and and at
Speaker 1: some point whenever we start talking hip hop, at some point,
Speaker 1: Greg gets a little uncomfortable, says, this is the whitest
Speaker 1: conversation ever. He's always right he's always right. But here's
Speaker 1: the thing for me, I depend on Greg to help
Speaker 1: keep the ship afloat whenever possible. Greg does like rap famously,
Speaker 1: so we need Greg to be on point. Okay, just
Speaker 1: like if we're having a conversation about mid nineties alternative rock,
Speaker 1: you can depend on me to make sure we're getting
Speaker 1: we're crossing the cheese and douting your eyes. So when
Speaker 1: you Mark's got it, he's got it covered. I've got
Speaker 1: you in that that realm Elvis Presley Mark right down there.
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. He changed the face of American rock. You
Speaker 1: can what it was like. Anyway. My point is you
Speaker 1: said that Mr P's son is bow Wow. It's a
Speaker 1: little Romeo. That was from Little Romeo's Cribs Kid edition
Speaker 1: on MTV about twenty years ago. And we just need
Speaker 1: you to be a little bit better and carry us
Speaker 1: in those moments when it gets overly white and uh ignorant.
Speaker 1: We need you to jump in and and get these
Speaker 1: things right. Otherwise it makes us look that much worse.
Speaker 1: It was tough. Um, you know you're getting I'm getting older,
Speaker 1: and I was just like a little a little brain
Speaker 1: fart there. I was there when you know, I was
Speaker 1: in New Orleans, Little Romeo was on the radio and
Speaker 1: whatnot if I you know, once someone sent the first
Speaker 1: of you know, roughly a hundred and seventy four tweets
Speaker 1: telling me I was wrong. I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, how did guy? How did I do that?
Speaker 1: In the moment, But you know, it's a live the
Speaker 1: live thing, and my brain is has been addled over
Speaker 1: the years for many reasons. And Little Romeo also went
Speaker 1: on to get a D one scholarship with USC to
Speaker 1: play basketball. I don't know where things went from there,
Speaker 1: but Greg does. It's a good lesson, like sometimes like
Speaker 1: what what makes a good Athlete? Podcast or whatever. It's
Speaker 1: like you sometimes you're gonna take massive l's and you
Speaker 1: just have to accept it and then come strong the
Speaker 1: next time. Like there there was this Top Chef contestant
Speaker 1: on this last season. Dawn loved her and she wouldn't
Speaker 1: she wouldn't get the last item of food on the
Speaker 1: plate and that would be like her first course out
Speaker 1: of five, and she would respond and the next three
Speaker 1: courses would be great. That's what I'm gonna try to do.
Speaker 1: She was a former Olympian. I'm like an olympian in
Speaker 1: the podcast game and you've you've labeled yourself in the
Speaker 1: realm of great I just that's the attitude I need
Speaker 1: to have to bounce back because it was a makes
Speaker 1: a Star Wars reference, and I'm just it's so foggy.
Speaker 1: It's like driving on the Palisades Parkway near the George
Speaker 1: Washington Bridge on a really foggy day, like foggy night.
Speaker 1: Like that was what it was like, just now for
Speaker 1: me when you made a Top Chef reference. I don't
Speaker 1: know how the how that game works, but it sounds
Speaker 1: like the contestants struggled. Yeah, she she struggled, but she
Speaker 1: would bounce back like a pro. That's what I I'm
Speaker 1: hoping it. I mean, Dan, the self anointed pop culture
Speaker 1: guy like has not has no no concept of one
Speaker 1: of the league groupings of films that changed film forever.
Speaker 1: I find that to be an odd stance, Like in
Speaker 1: I have dark I have a real blind spot with
Speaker 1: movies of the seventies and eighties that I've been open
Speaker 1: about that. I've been trying to check boxes on that
Speaker 1: and I know Star Wars is something I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: to hit eventually because I don't want to deny my
Speaker 1: children if they get into it. I'm not that type
Speaker 1: of I'm not that type of guy um or father.
Speaker 1: But it's not something that I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 1: But one one little thing and then we'll move on.
Speaker 1: Because you put me in a box for like I'm
Speaker 1: one of these like nerds, like I would tell you
Speaker 1: that only three of like the fourteen films they've done
Speaker 1: have any traction to me. The rest of it we
Speaker 1: get and the truth. The truth comes out at at
Speaker 1: twelve forty seven on a random Tuesday. When you break
Speaker 1: down your frustrations and your rankings and you're doing it,
Speaker 1: it's okay. Like you're just like a lot of Star Wars.
Speaker 1: You're into the whole thing. Even if you don't like
Speaker 1: some of it. You keep coming back strong. Incorrect. We
Speaker 1: can tackle this another time. That incorrect we have, let's
Speaker 1: not tackle it another time. Star Wars. I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: we got into the new so quick start to the
Speaker 1: show Star Wars. Yeah, I manufactured junk. You spend hours
Speaker 1: drawing pictures of Star Wars characters. That's all right. You
Speaker 1: know what's funny. It's it's funny because I think the
Speaker 1: way you are a Star Wars mark is the way
Speaker 1: I am with what my favorite thing might be, which
Speaker 1: is the band you too. It's a band that gets
Speaker 1: a lot of criticism him um and I to me,
Speaker 1: despite them being a global act, it's a very private
Speaker 1: experience for me, like listening to my favorite band. Like
Speaker 1: most of the time that I've enjoyed my favorite thing,
Speaker 1: it's alone. So it's kind of it feels almost intrusive
Speaker 1: when all of a sudden you have to talk about
Speaker 1: this thing that you love so much privately. Is Star
Speaker 1: Wars on some level that to you, you've enjoyed it
Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of hours of it alone, like staring
Speaker 1: at Luke Skywalker and and uh, what's your name in
Speaker 1: the bikini with the big monster like and and you
Speaker 1: and you're saying, come on, don't don't bring me into this.
Speaker 1: This is my little thing, this is my little world.
Speaker 1: Stay out of my world, all right. I think that's
Speaker 1: well said. Job of the Hut nailed it, got it.
Speaker 1: And what a victory for you, What a victory for
Speaker 1: the Green Bay Packers. Aaron Rodgers, he is back with
Speaker 1: the team, and he delivered a extended press conference, so
Speaker 1: there's the availability on Wednesday talking about all the things,
Speaker 1: basically answering a lot of the questions that we've all
Speaker 1: had throughout the spring and summer. Um. So let's start.
Speaker 1: Let's let Roger speak a little bit here, starting with
Speaker 1: did he seriously consider retiring? He says he did. However,
Speaker 1: there's still a big competitive hole in my body that
Speaker 1: I need to fill. And as I got back into
Speaker 1: my workouts, UM, I just realized that I know I
Speaker 1: can still play, and I want to still play, and
Speaker 1: as long as I feel like I can give UH
Speaker 1: to the team, then I should still play. And he
Speaker 1: also UH wanted to make it clear that this big
Speaker 1: to do around him. Uh, nobody should be feeling for
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers. He gets it in the big picture, not
Speaker 1: a victim here. I've made a ton of money here
Speaker 1: and I've been really fortunate to play a long time
Speaker 1: and to play here. Um. At the same time, I'm
Speaker 1: still competitive and I still feel like I can play.
Speaker 1: I proved it last year. So alright, So Mark, as
Speaker 1: we get into this, we had talked about it on Monday.
Speaker 1: You would mentioned that he was unhappy about a lack
Speaker 1: of say in personnel, and that's that is where the
Speaker 1: focus of his his commentary was in this press conference.
Speaker 1: To me, it feels like it's a little deflecting because
Speaker 1: I think a guy is proud as and touchy as
Speaker 1: he is. A lot of it really does go back
Speaker 1: to the simple first round pick of the kid last year.
Speaker 1: I still think that, but this probably is part of it.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's lying, but he he cited examples
Speaker 1: and was very clear that if this is gonna work
Speaker 1: going forward, it can't be the way it was in
Speaker 1: terms of freezing me out of personnel matters. I think
Speaker 1: if anything, you know, after we spent so many months,
Speaker 1: um wondering, questioning, theorizing what it was was that was
Speaker 1: at the heart of this, I do think that he
Speaker 1: was being pretty honest. I I mean he made it
Speaker 1: clear to some degree. He said it multiple times it
Speaker 1: was not about money, and I think if you look
Speaker 1: at the actual movement or non movement of money, that
Speaker 1: stands to be true at this point. I do think
Speaker 1: it reminds me of someone who has been working, let's say,
Speaker 1: at a company for a really long time. There's been
Speaker 1: a lot of changes, a lot of transitions, but they've
Speaker 1: remained like the biggest producer, the star, and there is
Speaker 1: to some degree I think a real sense of a
Speaker 1: lack of respect um in the way that he's been
Speaker 1: treated to some degree. I would say this about Aaron Rodgers,
Speaker 1: like I don't I find him quirky. Um. I don't
Speaker 1: know if like what happened yesterday, I look at it
Speaker 1: can separate like the the athlete and and and see
Speaker 1: how much of an accomplished person is But for me,
Speaker 1: a lot of it is um. And I don't you know,
Speaker 1: we can get into it, but like the naming of
Speaker 1: all these players that he felt that the organization disrespected
Speaker 1: while you while you were arguing also, and part of
Speaker 1: his conversation was I want to say I want to
Speaker 1: seat at the table and in movements that we make
Speaker 1: other quarterbacks and certainly in other sports, we see that
Speaker 1: and that's growing. It's not going away. It's getting bigger.
Speaker 1: And I think Aaron Rodgers sees, you know, someone like
Speaker 1: Tom Brady and other quarterbacks and says, I want that too.
Speaker 1: I've earned that. And there's a reason to say you
Speaker 1: have earned that. But when I what I think there's
Speaker 1: the disconnect where it starts to bug me a little bit,
Speaker 1: is that the reparations are made where you mentioned all
Speaker 1: these guys that were at the most of them at
Speaker 1: the end of their careers, and a general manager a
Speaker 1: lot of it. Ted Thompson, not Brian Goodacoon's tad to
Speaker 1: make tough decisions and move on from certain players. That's
Speaker 1: what a real GM does. When the Patriots cut a
Speaker 1: guy two years before his value is nothing there praised
Speaker 1: for it. But in this case, the front office took
Speaker 1: a bullet to the face, which I just simply didn't
Speaker 1: agree with. And then the turnaround is, hey, we're gonna
Speaker 1: now I have a say, we're gonna go sign Randall Cobb.
Speaker 1: I just to me, it kind of to me was
Speaker 1: illustrative of why most players should not have a seat
Speaker 1: at the general manager's table. A little bit of influence.
Speaker 1: We want to listen to you, yes, but all this
Speaker 1: stuff that Aaron Rodgers has been upset about um does
Speaker 1: not make him qualified to do that job. No, But
Speaker 1: he made a pretty good argument, Like I listening to him,
Speaker 1: this is what I want and have athletes is for
Speaker 1: them to just be transparent and what they say or want.
Speaker 1: He's obviously very intelligent and so like I appreciate, hated it,
Speaker 1: and the way he put it helped convince me, because
Speaker 1: you're right, Mark, like, you look at all those moves,
Speaker 1: first of all, you're not going to get them all right.
Speaker 1: And when he's bringing up Jordy Nelson and like Cobb
Speaker 1: and Jake Kumer, I'm like, you're you're not making the
Speaker 1: greatest point here, Rogers, because did those guys look like
Speaker 1: they had much left after they left Green Bay. Now
Speaker 1: I think Dan's right. It is a little all to
Speaker 1: the side of the fact that he wasn't involved in
Speaker 1: the decision to draft the guy who was to replace him,
Speaker 1: and that that is what it's it's sort of all about.
Speaker 1: But I do think like the way he put that
Speaker 1: he just wanted to be involved in the conversation was
Speaker 1: pretty smart. We have we have a good clip of it,
Speaker 1: ricky Um that I'd like to listen to. Now, decisions
Speaker 1: like that that have happened over and over and over again,
Speaker 1: that makes me realize that the organization looks at me
Speaker 1: and my job is just to play my opinion based
Speaker 1: on what I've accomplished in this league, the way I
Speaker 1: care about my teammates, the way I show opened Lachlan,
Speaker 1: where I lead, where conduct my self in the community.
Speaker 1: You should tire myself to a little bit more input.
Speaker 1: The rules, you know, are the same for most people,
Speaker 1: but every now and then there's some outliers, you know,
Speaker 1: guys who have been in organization for seventeen years and
Speaker 1: one few m vps where they can be in conversations
Speaker 1: at a different higher level. Um, I'm not asking for anything.
Speaker 1: The other other great quarterbacks across UH across the last
Speaker 1: few decades have not gotten, you know, the opportunity to
Speaker 1: just be in conversation. You know. So if you're gonna
Speaker 1: you're gonna cut a guy who, based on a meritocracy,
Speaker 1: was our second best receiver in training camp last year
Speaker 1: for the majority of camp. Maybe running by me, see
Speaker 1: what I feel, I might be able to change your mind.
Speaker 1: You know what he makes points, But I do I
Speaker 1: understand what Mark saying. It's syndrome. Don't you think like
Speaker 1: his boss, Good Counts is new. He's he's been there
Speaker 1: three or four years or whatever it's been, and Roger
Speaker 1: has been there seventeen And that to me is like
Speaker 1: at the I mean, there's something unbecoming about the wreck
Speaker 1: nous in the criticism of the organization and this press
Speaker 1: conference where he's sitting where in the packer's hat and
Speaker 1: the shirt. And I don't know. It's just like he's
Speaker 1: right in the sense that or he's picking up on
Speaker 1: what's happening not just in football, but in professional sports. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I'll cite the NBA specifically, but I'm sure you
Speaker 1: could find it all over the world in different sports.
Speaker 1: The players are having a greater voice in terms of
Speaker 1: the direction of an organization. It's not just in the
Speaker 1: case of football, um purely from a playing standpoint, shut
Speaker 1: up and throw a spiral. It's about it's about this
Speaker 1: guy saying I should have a bigger voice, you should
Speaker 1: have me in the room. And that's that's tricky because
Speaker 1: that can go either way. But you understand where this
Speaker 1: is coming from because he's picking up on what's going
Speaker 1: on in the world, and he makes a good point.
Speaker 1: I just I just think with him specifically citing who's
Speaker 1: the court, who's the wide receiver, he's referring to their guess, Kumero,
Speaker 1: I'm guessing here. But he's trying to do he's rubbing.
Speaker 1: He's trying to rub. Guden cuts his nose in this
Speaker 1: stuff now. And it's the same thing with the Randall
Speaker 1: Cobb move which mark you said he was signed. It
Speaker 1: was a trade that to get him from the Texans
Speaker 1: and guess what good a Kuns too who let go
Speaker 1: and let Cop go in a different direction, went to
Speaker 1: Dallas and then uh, he's ended up with in Houston
Speaker 1: on a bad contract that Bill O'Brien gave him, overpaid
Speaker 1: a player in decline and now as a make good
Speaker 1: to Aaron Rodgers. Brianna cons as the publicly trade for
Speaker 1: this guy. And I don't know if they inherit all
Speaker 1: the salary. I don't know the specifics on that five
Speaker 1: out of eight million, the Texas Texas anyone took Randall
Speaker 1: Cobb off their team because I don't think he was
Speaker 1: even gonna make the Texans. That is Aaron Rodgers. That's
Speaker 1: just the cowboy. The Packers getting down and genuineflecting in
Speaker 1: front of him and being like, Okay, we'll give in
Speaker 1: this in this situation, but I'll tell you what, Aaron
Speaker 1: Rodgers play starts going downhill and the Packers are not
Speaker 1: going to forget any of this. I don't think this
Speaker 1: is very I would imagine he this is not a
Speaker 1: good luck. Behind the scenes, they're very upset the way
Speaker 1: he's handling. He's handled this entire saga right down to
Speaker 1: the press conference, and they will kick his butt out
Speaker 1: the door as soon as they decide that he's not
Speaker 1: as valuable as the money that he's getting paid. I
Speaker 1: just I don't like but he still think he openly
Speaker 1: wants to be somewhere else next year. I don't care
Speaker 1: what they say. I mean, this is the final year,
Speaker 1: and I I you know, I've had Packer fans coming
Speaker 1: at me because you know, when when you critique this stuff,
Speaker 1: you don't get us. We're fine, We're happy to have
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers for one more season. Okay, that's a subset
Speaker 1: of you. But I would also look at some players
Speaker 1: in the locker room, like, here's a quarterback as great
Speaker 1: as he is. This guy is, and I think players
Speaker 1: today understand the business side is the business side. You
Speaker 1: try to bury it, you move on, and I think
Speaker 1: that's what they'll do. But there have got to be
Speaker 1: certain personality types in that locker room that say, this
Speaker 1: guy is telling everyone I don't want to be here
Speaker 1: after this season because basically, Aaron Rodgers did not win this.
Speaker 1: This is not why he went through all this. I
Speaker 1: don't I disagree with people that call this a big
Speaker 1: victory for Aaron Rodgers to have to come back and
Speaker 1: play this season in Green Bay. I don't agree. I
Speaker 1: think this thing went sideways. He tried to pull an
Speaker 1: NBA type power play and it didn't work. It did
Speaker 1: not go perfectly to plan. I think we should point
Speaker 1: out a couple of things, just the specifics of what
Speaker 1: they did with the contract. They did take a year
Speaker 1: off the end of it. They also adjusted it in
Speaker 1: a way that in theory, he could retire next year
Speaker 1: and they wouldn't take his money back, which isn't right
Speaker 1: but right. But what that does it allows him to
Speaker 1: control a trade process because he that way can essentially
Speaker 1: say I won't go to the Panthers or I'll retire,
Speaker 1: and it just gives and they know that too. They're
Speaker 1: not it's not like they're surprised by this. It just
Speaker 1: helps him to control a trade. By the thing, we
Speaker 1: should say like he was not He said I am
Speaker 1: not closing the door on things, on things changing here,
Speaker 1: and that I'm possibly here, so he knows, like, look,
Speaker 1: if they were in the Super Bowl this year, he
Speaker 1: wins the MVP, it's like he's probably gonna be on
Speaker 1: the Packers again next year. He's not gonna stamp his
Speaker 1: foot and they'll they'll probably just change where they're at
Speaker 1: like that, that part of it. I appreciated that he
Speaker 1: said that. I think that was newsworthy. And all this
Speaker 1: only happened because the Packers mis evaluated him. That is
Speaker 1: the number one thing. They thought he was in decline
Speaker 1: and they made a decision to take love. They were
Speaker 1: making a calculated risk that Rogers only gonna be here
Speaker 1: two years. They thought he was in decline. His play
Speaker 1: last year was ultimately like the surprise, and now all
Speaker 1: this message. He wasn't Jordan's love. It happened because the
Speaker 1: Packers tried to make a business decision and the quarterback
Speaker 1: it wasn't enough. If they thought he was going to
Speaker 1: play close to an m v P level, they wouldn't.
Speaker 1: The evaluation was right, But this happened. This entire mess
Speaker 1: this summer happened because it wasn't enough for the quarterback
Speaker 1: to win m v P and basically show everyone, hey,
Speaker 1: you messed up. He needed to take it that extra step.
Speaker 1: To me, that's ego, and that's what this has been about.
Speaker 1: I think that, to me is what why this happened.
Speaker 1: It's Aaron Rodgers more than I hear you, and I
Speaker 1: think that's that's fair. But I did find him credible,
Speaker 1: and the one thing he was probably more adamant about
Speaker 1: than anything was that those leaks weren't coming from me.
Speaker 1: You can say what you want about the drama that
Speaker 1: was happening this summer, I can, And he was saying,
Speaker 1: I can promise you that is not coming from me
Speaker 1: or my camp. And I believe him, like I believe
Speaker 1: you know what, He could have slowed this down a
Speaker 1: long time. That that like, if you want to complain
Speaker 1: about schefter having certain things or the way things like that,
Speaker 1: I don't think that was coming from Aaron Rodgers. I
Speaker 1: think those everything that came out was because the packers
Speaker 1: wanted it to come out. But he did not have
Speaker 1: to wait till July to put a stop to some
Speaker 1: of this madness. That's the one thing I'd say. I mean,
Speaker 1: look at he said he spent the summer in introspective
Speaker 1: States working on his mental health. That is good. I
Speaker 1: think that's good for anyone. But he could have he
Speaker 1: could have slowed down this drama wheel and frankly, I
Speaker 1: would think a lot of way that a lot of
Speaker 1: the media um bowed down to him yesterday. I found
Speaker 1: that that that got on my nerves. Drama for people
Speaker 1: like us who followed this this closely in hardcore fans,
Speaker 1: like for for eight percent of America, like they knew
Speaker 1: that he was out and then he's back, like by
Speaker 1: the time it matters, and like nothing ultimately changed. We're
Speaker 1: more annoyed about it because we also doesn't excuse it,
Speaker 1: though I don't. I don't know why we're continually making excuses.
Speaker 1: And it's like if Aaron Rodgers walks into the middle
Speaker 1: of a dry forest and lights a match and sets
Speaker 1: the whole thing ablaze and then walks away. And then
Speaker 1: the Packers as the forward facing franchise that is at
Speaker 1: the center of the ear that I or that Rogers
Speaker 1: has toward the team, they're getting on a daily basis,
Speaker 1: baraged with information seekers and trying to handle the situation
Speaker 1: just because Rogers isn't the one leaking stories. He started it.
Speaker 1: Rodgers would say, Goodkin started by by drafted, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's true, we mentioned, we mentioned the Houston Texans, and
Speaker 1: it's we should mentioned. By the way Davante Adams is
Speaker 1: press conference just quickly afterwards. Was to me almost a
Speaker 1: little more news worthy that he said, of course, I'm
Speaker 1: not taking a dollar less less to stay with Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1: Basically said, you know, it'd be nice to play with
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers, but I don't care where Aaron Rodgers plays
Speaker 1: next year. That has no uh impact on my negotiations.
Speaker 1: I Am going to be the highest paid receiver in
Speaker 1: the league because that's what I deserve, and they're not
Speaker 1: offering me that. And that's just my stance now, and
Speaker 1: I'm not accepting anything less from any team. And if
Speaker 1: you want to play me with you know, Tim Boyle
Speaker 1: next year in Detroit, I'll do it if if you
Speaker 1: make me the highest paid receiver in the league. I
Speaker 1: thought that was interesting because I would hope he realizes
Speaker 1: will probably make more money if he takes the big
Speaker 1: paycheck from a team that has a really good quarterback
Speaker 1: in place. But yes'm he should not take any discount.
Speaker 1: Make them make your money when you when you can.
Speaker 1: And if the Packers won't do what, there are ten
Speaker 1: other right now. It's a golden age for quarterbacks in
Speaker 1: our league. There eight other quarterbacks you might end up
Speaker 1: in the Hall of fame go signed with one of
Speaker 1: those teams that I'm sure would happily pay you what
Speaker 1: you want. UM, all right, Deshaun Watson, listen, we talked
Speaker 1: about it on Monday. We don't need to dive deep on,
Speaker 1: uh some of the less savory aspects of what's going
Speaker 1: on with his story right now, but you should know that, yes,
Speaker 1: he is at training camp for the Texans, as is
Speaker 1: contractually obligated for Watson to be. But it doesn't sound
Speaker 1: like Texans head coach David Culley, who again feels like
Speaker 1: he's full on being asked to arrange in the deck
Speaker 1: chairs on the Titanic. Here a really tough situation for
Speaker 1: Cully right now, and um, Cully said, Watson is behind
Speaker 1: because he missed offseason workouts, needs as many reps as possible,
Speaker 1: and he's being used. Watson, this is an all pro quarterback,
Speaker 1: an m VP level player, UM as a fourth string
Speaker 1: quarterback in practice. He also got some snaps at safety
Speaker 1: and running back. Uh. It all plays out like forest
Speaker 1: right now. Mark Sesser, what you read on this, well,
Speaker 1: I think it is a forest. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't understand. Number one, If you're the Texans, why you.
Speaker 1: As we mentioned last show, we're not going to find you,
Speaker 1: but we don't need you here because it's just simply
Speaker 1: needs to be taken care of before we have this happening.
Speaker 1: It is the last kind of news story that should
Speaker 1: be occurring right now. And I would say one thing,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Again, we don't know where the NFL
Speaker 1: is on their investigation. They clearly haven't come to its conclusion.
Speaker 1: But someone like Ezekiel Elliott Um, who went through that
Speaker 1: whole suspension process, you know, a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: that happened without anything officially occurring legally outside the NFL,
Speaker 1: came to a decision. And I don't know why we're
Speaker 1: in a place where anyone is saying it's a good
Speaker 1: idea to have Deshaun Watson out on the field, um,
Speaker 1: in front of cameras practicing right now, with what's going
Speaker 1: on behind the scenes, What is the point he's safety?
Speaker 1: What is happening? Are you getting me? I don't know
Speaker 1: who to blame that I don't care almost who to blame,
Speaker 1: but this isn't It doesn't make any sense, and they
Speaker 1: don't want Deshaun Watson out there when when tackling is
Speaker 1: starting in a couple of days. This is coming to
Speaker 1: a head, and I think it's gonna end with Deshaun
Speaker 1: Watson no longer practicing with the Texans. So what are
Speaker 1: we waiting for? I mean, he's out there playing safety.
Speaker 1: It's crazy and and a lot of I think listeners
Speaker 1: because I've seen some tweets about it, are misunderstanding. There
Speaker 1: is a criminal investigation, like more women came for this week.
Speaker 1: It's it's up to ten women. Uh, some aren't involved
Speaker 1: actually in the civil investigation. So Houston Police is doing
Speaker 1: their investigation the civil cases over twenty and whether he's
Speaker 1: allowed like to play or not while that's going on.
Speaker 1: I guess there are reasonable ways that you could argue
Speaker 1: by that. But nothing's changed, Like, nothing has changed. The
Speaker 1: only thing I think that changed was I think the
Speaker 1: Texans and to a lesser degree, the NFL and Deshaun
Speaker 1: Watson thought we can get away with this, that there
Speaker 1: isn't gonna be that it kind of quieted down and
Speaker 1: that people aren't going to be upset. But like if
Speaker 1: if the point is to what I think the point is,
Speaker 1: is to show that he's out there, he's healthy, whatever,
Speaker 1: and he can be traded, right now, because I think
Speaker 1: it's made been made clear that Texans want to trade him,
Speaker 1: but I don't think they're getting offers. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't think teams are interested in there right now. So
Speaker 1: it just seems like kind of a farce, uh, with
Speaker 1: no easy solution. It's crazy and just in another sport
Speaker 1: right now, Major League Baseball, Trevor Bauer is an All
Speaker 1: Star pitcher for the Los Angeles Dodgers. He is right
Speaker 1: now involved in a criminal investigation for sexual assault for
Speaker 1: a situation that went down with a partner he had
Speaker 1: that he met online. And MLB's response to that is like,
Speaker 1: we gotta get this guy off the field. So they
Speaker 1: set a one week administrative leave they called it, and
Speaker 1: they've extended it now I believe three weeks, and now
Speaker 1: it's extended through August six because again, the wheels of
Speaker 1: justice turned much more slowly than a sports calendar, and
Speaker 1: it's like the NFL needs to do whatever that is.
Speaker 1: Is that the commissioner's examplest. I don't know, but you've
Speaker 1: got to get to Shaun Watson out of the picture.
Speaker 1: Until we have more clarity. It just come on, common sense,
Speaker 1: police come in and other news my goodness, Xavian Howard
Speaker 1: led the NFL in interceptions last year at ten the
Speaker 1: most sense I believe Tay Law and the Jets back
Speaker 1: in two thousand seven for a really bad Jets team,
Speaker 1: by the way, anyway, rap Sheet reports that multiple teams
Speaker 1: have called the Dolphins inquiring about trading for the cornerback.
Speaker 1: H He has requested a trade. He went on Instagram
Speaker 1: laid out all of his issues. He doesn't like that
Speaker 1: the contract he signed two years ago is out of
Speaker 1: date and not in line with his level of play
Speaker 1: last season when he was an All Pro. He doesn't
Speaker 1: like that he's not even the highest paid player in
Speaker 1: his own secondary, not even close. Points out that Byron
Speaker 1: Jones has that offer. So, Greg, where do you come
Speaker 1: down on this? First of all, who cares he he
Speaker 1: wants more? Moneys outplayed his contract. We can get bogged
Speaker 1: down in that conversation if if we wish. More interesting
Speaker 1: to me is to the Dolphins really trade a player
Speaker 1: at this level when they're trying to take the next step.
Speaker 1: And if they do, what kind of value do you
Speaker 1: think he could bring back in a trade. It sounds
Speaker 1: like they're listening. You know, they gave him that contract,
Speaker 1: He's under contract for four more years. In one of
Speaker 1: those two years, he missed a huge chunk of the
Speaker 1: season and didn't play like particularly well. He had the
Speaker 1: domestic violence arrest in between the seasons, and then he
Speaker 1: was out of this world. My my issue is that
Speaker 1: arrest if not stopping him from playing football. No, no
Speaker 1: one is saying that, but it has to be mentioned
Speaker 1: in the context of the trade because I think it
Speaker 1: absolutely affects the negotiation that he's going to have in
Speaker 1: a new contract. I think it also could affect the Dolphins.
Speaker 1: Is willingness to rip up a contract in good faith
Speaker 1: with four years left on it, and it's been left out.
Speaker 1: I've seen some long analyzes about his situation that literally
Speaker 1: don't mention it, and and I'm not saying like that
Speaker 1: has to stop him from playing. The NFL is clearly
Speaker 1: not suspending him, like, of course he still has value,
Speaker 1: but I think that's going to change the value that
Speaker 1: the Dolphins see and him potentially in another team in
Speaker 1: season because he's a riskier pickup. He's still one of
Speaker 1: the top seven or eight cornerbacks in the league in
Speaker 1: terms of average value of his contracts, so it's not
Speaker 1: like he's getting paid nothing. I think it makes it
Speaker 1: very tricky. If if that wasn't an issue, I think
Speaker 1: he could maybe get a first round pick. And considering
Speaker 1: Tyreek Hill's contract and everything else, maybe it's not going
Speaker 1: to be an issue for some team, but I think
Speaker 1: it probably is an issue for this Dolphins team in
Speaker 1: terms of being interested in ripping up his deal right now.
Speaker 1: I think that's perfectly said because it's like they know him,
Speaker 1: they know what they're dealing with. Obviously, you know, you
Speaker 1: could argue is their best player, but this other side
Speaker 1: of it, the off the field stuff, they that probably
Speaker 1: slowed the wheels on then wanting to listen to him,
Speaker 1: and I get that he's sitting in a you know,
Speaker 1: a tape study room with Byron Jones, seeing Byron Jones
Speaker 1: not two things he can do. And we talked about
Speaker 1: on the last show that like you, you're we're with
Speaker 1: a co worker who you find out it's making a
Speaker 1: lot more money than you right now reading this Instagram post,
Speaker 1: of course, of course, but I do think that you know,
Speaker 1: not to be cynical, but there will always be another
Speaker 1: team that will look past the off the field stuff.
Speaker 1: Um Science Trade Form and give them a new contract.
Speaker 1: I just assume that's what will happen if Miami is
Speaker 1: unwilling to do so. Uh. Two years ago, the Dolphins
Speaker 1: stuck in another squabble with a star member of the secondary,
Speaker 1: traded makea Fitzpatrick for the to the Steelers for the
Speaker 1: overall pick in the next draft. Kind of feels like
Speaker 1: where this this could be heading. But we shall see.
Speaker 1: And there's more COVID news by the way. But I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm just pushing it back to the end of news.
Speaker 1: I just don't want to talk about it, Okay, So
Speaker 1: let's instead talk about how Michael Thomas it might be
Speaker 1: a knucklehead and the Saints and the star wide receiver
Speaker 1: probably headed for a divorce sooner rather than later. Speaking
Speaker 1: on Wednesday, Saints coach Sean Payton said that Michael Thomas
Speaker 1: should have undergone his ankle operation earlier and still waiting
Speaker 1: till summer. Here is a little bit from Peyton. Well
Speaker 1: look at it, peers, we're gonna have to spend some
Speaker 1: time without him. Um. It's disappointing, and we'll work through
Speaker 1: it with the other players that are here. Um. But
Speaker 1: the surgery took place, and obviously you know, we would
Speaker 1: have liked to have happened earlier than later, and quite honestly,
Speaker 1: it should have. Mm hmm, oh, you ain't happy, Greg.
Speaker 1: I can see this Saint season going a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: Aaron Shots, Who's gonna be on later? You know, has
Speaker 1: the Saints pretty high the football outsiders U do. In
Speaker 1: the first eight weeks of the season, they play the Packers,
Speaker 1: they're at New England, They're at Seattle. Tampa's in there.
Speaker 1: That's not in a row, but those are some of
Speaker 1: the hardest games in the first eight that's all before
Speaker 1: the trade deadline. I think one of the scenarios, at
Speaker 1: least for the Saints is they do not have a
Speaker 1: winning record, you know, in those eight games, they have
Speaker 1: a losing record, and that Michael Thomas is taking up
Speaker 1: a lot of airtime on NFL Network in this podcast
Speaker 1: as as a potential trade candidate. Yeah, I mean you
Speaker 1: you're looking at like Mark has Callaway now playing a
Speaker 1: major role. And we were kidding about little Jordan Humphrey
Speaker 1: last show, but he now is a factor. I mean,
Speaker 1: they they signed Chris Hogan, who you're not in this
Speaker 1: day and age thinking, is going to play a major
Speaker 1: He was We're across. He was literally acrosse. I don't
Speaker 1: know how good he was. Any starting wide receiver for
Speaker 1: New York Jets you do not want on your roster.
Speaker 1: And they need help the wide receiver because by the way,
Speaker 1: Saints wide receiver Donte Harris, he was arrested. It wasn't
Speaker 1: reported until this week, but on July sixteenth, he got
Speaker 1: himself popped on a d u I. Uh and that
Speaker 1: usually leads to a suspension of two games. Uh, So
Speaker 1: they might be without him as well. So again, we
Speaker 1: talked about a little bit on Monday. The Saints big
Speaker 1: question mark around that team. I'm not doing the COVID
Speaker 1: story yet. And they gotta play Aaron Rodgers in Week one.
Speaker 1: It's been a bad week for the Saints. That's the
Speaker 1: Fox four five Week one game. Troy Joe Settling. Will
Speaker 1: we be at our new studio. We don't know, we
Speaker 1: don't know. It could be bore twenty five by the
Speaker 1: end of the second quarter. Nailed it. The Washington football
Speaker 1: team resigned defensive tackle Jonathan Allen to a four year,
Speaker 1: seventy two million dollar contract extension. Market gotta love what
Speaker 1: the Washington football team is doing. Um, they are getting
Speaker 1: nasty in those trenches, and they they think we got
Speaker 1: a good thing going on on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 1: Let's get Jonathan Allen under contract for a bunch more years.
Speaker 1: No brainer to get the contract. He turns thirty at
Speaker 1: the end of it, so he'll probably get another contract.
Speaker 1: I mean, Montez Sweat is going to get paid at
Speaker 1: some point. You obviously canna keep Chase Young around for
Speaker 1: a long time. So I think you know if when
Speaker 1: you watch when you watch Jonathan Allen, the one thing
Speaker 1: about him is he had the lowest percentage of any
Speaker 1: interior defender in the League of pressure is created when
Speaker 1: he was he had multiple people on him. I mean,
Speaker 1: this guy is constantly getting double and triple teamed and
Speaker 1: and throwing people off left and right. His tape is
Speaker 1: pretty fascinating, and I think he's the heart and soul
Speaker 1: of that that interior line. I mean, they've got their
Speaker 1: nasty for a reason. If you want to look at
Speaker 1: the Washington team as a playoff team, it starts with
Speaker 1: that defensive front. Was the Sessler break and that's some Jonathan.
Speaker 1: I mean, when I like, look at them, I went
Speaker 1: out and watch some stuff, and I mean the actually
Speaker 1: been a key couple of people that were crowing about
Speaker 1: him before the extension where they put like one of
Speaker 1: these eighteen kind of clips in a row of what
Speaker 1: he did, and the guy is like just a car
Speaker 1: standing up with arms throwing people around. A sneaky amount
Speaker 1: of the best players on Washington were drafted in that
Speaker 1: that like eighteen months there, two years that Scott mcgluwen
Speaker 1: was there, who before he left an unfortunate circumstances, But
Speaker 1: a lot of those picks are the ones that are
Speaker 1: the highest paid players on Washington right now. Well. McCluin
Speaker 1: also pushed for Baker Mayfield to be picked by the
Speaker 1: Browns at number one, so he's got his fingerprints all
Speaker 1: over the place. Dak Prescott underwent an m R I
Speaker 1: m R I after leaving Wednesday's practice with arms sore nous,
Speaker 1: diagnosed with a strained muscle in his throwing shoulder. Um
Speaker 1: Mike McCarthy said after the fact that the injuries quote minor,
Speaker 1: but it does appear that it will cost him some time.
Speaker 1: And then our own Jane Slater, friend of the show,
Speaker 1: tweeted out just a few minutes ago in fact that
Speaker 1: he is practicing Dak Prescott. However, he's acting as a
Speaker 1: running back for backups and individual drills. He throws the
Speaker 1: ball back with his left, non throwing hand. Uh Jane added,
Speaker 1: he's out there with the quarterbacks as well, going through
Speaker 1: scrambled drills, dropping back with feet, but not throwing the ball.
Speaker 1: While doing it. The crowd is seeing him. Happy birthday.
Speaker 1: Happy birthday, Dak Prescott, Happy birthday. Not worry. I'm not
Speaker 1: worried about this. Of a Macawboys fan. I'm not worried
Speaker 1: about it unless a week from now he's still throwing
Speaker 1: it left handed with the running backs. Well, that's the
Speaker 1: sound of it. It sounds like it's gonna be two
Speaker 1: to three weeks. Um. The local reporters believe that's how
Speaker 1: and and they all and look, of course, we hope
Speaker 1: that's fine. He more than likely it's probably not a
Speaker 1: huge issue. But here's the thing. They talk out of
Speaker 1: both sides of their mouth. Oh, this is not a
Speaker 1: big story. They also say, how vital every one of
Speaker 1: these practices is are, how important it is that Dak's
Speaker 1: back out there, like how much he's gaining from it.
Speaker 1: They you do not go getting him or I And
Speaker 1: then you do after looking at that m R. I
Speaker 1: sit the guy for two to three weeks if there's
Speaker 1: no concern whatsoever. It's this weird time of your where
Speaker 1: it's always like everyone's gonna be fine from by week one.
Speaker 1: That's what they said about Amari Cooper and DeMarcus Lawrence
Speaker 1: at one point, Oh, they're gonna be fined by training camp.
Speaker 1: Well it turns out they're they're gonna miss the first
Speaker 1: three or four weeks after major surgery. They've been out
Speaker 1: for seven months. Like at some point, it's fair to
Speaker 1: be skeptical, and I just don't think it means nothing.
Speaker 1: Like it's a little bit of a concern to have
Speaker 1: a shoulder problem right off the bat. It's a throwing shoulder.
Speaker 1: I mean, of course it's a concern, and it's the
Speaker 1: kind of thing that can you know, it could nag,
Speaker 1: it could go on. But I would say this, like
Speaker 1: I think the real ascid tests would be if this
Speaker 1: happened in week two, how quickly would he practice or play?
Speaker 1: I mean, there is logic to just saying see you later.
Speaker 1: We don't need you, and we don't need you on
Speaker 1: the field on any level until the games matter, especially
Speaker 1: when your backup still Cooper Rush, what are we doing here?
Speaker 1: We just went through a whole season Cowboys and your
Speaker 1: backup It's like what? And I think that if I
Speaker 1: think they came in and through five interceptions as a
Speaker 1: trio the backup quarterbacks today, which I get it, it's
Speaker 1: a practice, but still it was like they were dominated
Speaker 1: by the Cowboys defense. So if one of those guys
Speaker 1: are seeing live bullets, he'll probably Um. Isn't it cute
Speaker 1: when your kids say something and it's so cute that
Speaker 1: you can't even correct them. Um, My son Harry today
Speaker 1: said he's possessed by a video and he meant obsessed,
Speaker 1: But I just couldn't correct him. He was too cute.
Speaker 1: And and my eldest son Jack about three years ago
Speaker 1: or four years ago, um doing various like Batman and
Speaker 1: Joker things. He was like, oh, he got dropped into
Speaker 1: the acid instead of acid. And I've never corrected him.
Speaker 1: And now he's almost seven years old and he still
Speaker 1: says acid. But I just I don't. I don't want
Speaker 1: to lose that. I don't want to lose that. I
Speaker 1: can't step in coils. He's like, I like, do you
Speaker 1: like do you talk to girls in your class? Along
Speaker 1: with boys. Guys, I don't talk to the oils. Was like,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna let you roll with that. I think
Speaker 1: that sounds my grandfather, Keith hands Dad Paul we knew
Speaker 1: him as Baba Um pronounced girls as oils until the
Speaker 1: very end. He lived till he was So if you
Speaker 1: if you don't get a handle of it, that's where
Speaker 1: it's heading. Well you're right, but I I found it
Speaker 1: to be endearing. But just a heads up, it might
Speaker 1: you know, like a lot of things get like made
Speaker 1: fun out of you sometimes in middle school that's like
Speaker 1: the time, or maybe early high school sometimes if if
Speaker 1: a kid starts pointing that out. But it could go
Speaker 1: the other way. People could find it totally charming. It
Speaker 1: could sweep the greater Los Angeles area. Well, it's his journey.
Speaker 1: Baba drove a bus in New York City and uh
Speaker 1: he called everybody Sam, Like ah Sam. Best part of
Speaker 1: driving a bus oyls You pick them up all right. Finally,
Speaker 1: in the news, ESPN's Adam Schefter reported that Lamar Jackson
Speaker 1: not participating in Ravens training camp due to a quote
Speaker 1: COVID related case. The league is still trying to process
Speaker 1: Mike Aarafolo followed up that report, said it's unclear how
Speaker 1: long Jackson will be out. And Jackson this time last
Speaker 1: year after testing positive for COVID nineteen. Uh, there were
Speaker 1: a bunch of outbreaks on the Ravens last year. So
Speaker 1: you got Trace McSorley and Tyler Huntley taken snaps at
Speaker 1: Ravens camp. And if you're wondering, of course everyone is
Speaker 1: is Lamar Jackson vaccinated, he's gotten he's gotten sick twice.
Speaker 1: Now it's private, we don't know he uh he yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how he answered the question back in June that
Speaker 1: he wasn't going to answer it. They have clarified though,
Speaker 1: Uh for for the listeners, he did test positive for COVID.
Speaker 1: You know, they announced that and a lot of players
Speaker 1: are Gus Edwards did. I was surprised, I think the
Speaker 1: other day fourteen positive tests because they are clarifying now
Speaker 1: who's testing positive. There's almost no players missing time for
Speaker 1: being a close contact. And there's been double digits, uh,
Speaker 1: double digit players testing positive for COVID multiple days. And
Speaker 1: we'll kind of know Dan probably whether he was vaccinated
Speaker 1: or not, because the rule is if you aren't vaccinated,
Speaker 1: you were out minimum ten days, and then after that
Speaker 1: you have to pass test um. If you are vaccinated,
Speaker 1: you can come back quicker if you start testing negative
Speaker 1: sooner than that. So for some reason he came back
Speaker 1: sooner we would know. But that's that's a pretty big
Speaker 1: chunk of training camp after it took him out in
Speaker 1: the middle of the playoff race last year. The thing
Speaker 1: that stands out to me also trace McSorley, Tyler Huntley.
Speaker 1: You lost Lamar Jackson a year ago for a game.
Speaker 1: He's the kind of quarterback that you know, he's he's
Speaker 1: been lucky injury wise, but he's the kind of quarterback
Speaker 1: that could you know, at some point take the type
Speaker 1: of hit that takes him out for a bit. This
Speaker 1: team has not done enough at backup quarterback because the
Speaker 1: way they looked even with r G three and there
Speaker 1: a year ago, one of the worst offenses in the
Speaker 1: league without Lamar Jackson in there. Do you think anything
Speaker 1: unfunctional answering it's private to the COVID vaccine question, actually
Speaker 1: got the vaccine and they're choosing to be privately think
Speaker 1: it's a code for we haven't gotten it. The only
Speaker 1: thing is some players, a lot of players in mid
Speaker 1: June had not been vaccinated. The league rate was under
Speaker 1: fifty at that point. Now it's I think they said
Speaker 1: it's ninety or close to ninety league wide. Like Donald
Speaker 1: for instance, was pretty vocal about that he didn't want
Speaker 1: to get and then in the in the meantime he has.
Speaker 1: So we don't know if Lamar did in the meantime.
Speaker 1: But yeah, do you think that we we should start
Speaker 1: waltzing around because we have been, but let's start telling
Speaker 1: people it's private now we did it. But I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna think something about me, but it's not
Speaker 1: gonna be true. I've tricked you. I like that. I
Speaker 1: don't know what what you what you get out of it? All?
Speaker 1: I get nothing. It's literally nothing in fact. But because
Speaker 1: we've already now deduced that, that's you're telling everyone you
Speaker 1: haven't got. But still, why not that's fair. That's what's
Speaker 1: happening in the news, all right? Coming up next? Oh,
Speaker 1: this is good, this is good. Boys. You gotta get
Speaker 1: some you gotta get the taste makers, the intellectual tastemakers
Speaker 1: of the football Cagnet sent involved with this program. Okay,
Speaker 1: and here's one of them. Our next guest is the
Speaker 1: creator of Football Outsiders. He also he's the guy behind
Speaker 1: most of their original statistical methods uh in terms of
Speaker 1: NFL analysis. He and then he's the lead writer, he's
Speaker 1: the editor, he's the statistician on that book series, Football
Speaker 1: Outsiders Almanac, which is the bible. It's out now get it.
Speaker 1: If you want to get caught up to where things
Speaker 1: are in the NFL right now, dive into it. Here.
Speaker 1: He is Aaron Schats. Welcome to the Around the NFL.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me on the show.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. It's great to be on with
Speaker 1: you guys. Oh, it is great to have you and
Speaker 1: you know, and again check it out because it's not
Speaker 1: just he doesn't Aaron and his team don't just pick
Speaker 1: out certain teams. Everybody gets the deep dive. They get
Speaker 1: what I like to call on something we like to
Speaker 1: do on the show, the Inside the NFL in the
Speaker 1: eighties treatment. Everybody gets their time and if you dive in,
Speaker 1: you'll see a wind projection and it's all there's a
Speaker 1: lot of math involved and study and analytical deep diving.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna point out some of these um that
Speaker 1: really jumped out to us and Mark, I want you
Speaker 1: to get us going, because one team that is near
Speaker 1: and dear to your heart, uh is not as high
Speaker 1: uh in the world. The football outside is as it
Speaker 1: is elsewhere. Yeah. I would just want to say, first
Speaker 1: of all, that anyone who has never really read one
Speaker 1: of these epics that come out, the minute they come out,
Speaker 1: I know my summer is over and a lot of
Speaker 1: tornado is approaching. But what is there a negative connotation
Speaker 1: to what? No, no, no, it's just kind of to me,
Speaker 1: it's sort of a it's it's a book end on
Speaker 1: the season beginning. But there's some really wonderful writing too.
Speaker 1: I think that that that what you guys do. It's
Speaker 1: not just data. It is some really incredible descriptions and
Speaker 1: there's a lot of humor in there. So it's a
Speaker 1: fun read. Um. All right, Yes, so let's get to it.
Speaker 1: My team, the Cleveland Browns. You know you've you've put
Speaker 1: them at an eight point six win estimation now that
Speaker 1: has them as the eighth team in the a f
Speaker 1: C and out of the playoffs. Now here's the thing.
Speaker 1: I am someone who already is inside thinking when the
Speaker 1: entire nation is jumping on Cleveland, which happens like maybe
Speaker 1: once every fourteen years, only bad things can happen. But
Speaker 1: I I when when it comes from you, guys, I
Speaker 1: start to get a little concerned because I trust where
Speaker 1: you're coming from with this. What are you What is
Speaker 1: happening with the Cleveland Browns? Why are you zigging when
Speaker 1: so many other people are zagging. Yeah, I know it's
Speaker 1: tough because it's such an analytically oriented organization, Like we
Speaker 1: want to root for them, like we want them to
Speaker 1: do well. But the problem is the Browns were not,
Speaker 1: as it is their record last year overall. First of all,
Speaker 1: they were I think seventeen in our d v o
Speaker 1: A rankings despite being eleven and five. D v o
Speaker 1: A is the main statistic that we use at Football Outsiders.
Speaker 1: They also they were outscored by their opponents despite being
Speaker 1: eleven and five. If you look at projecting teams based
Speaker 1: solely on points scored and allowed, what they call the
Speaker 1: Pythagorean win theorem. The Browns were one of the ten
Speaker 1: biggest overachievers since the merger. So a lot of last
Speaker 1: year's sort of mediocre performance is tied up with two
Speaker 1: games when they got completely blown out by the Steelers
Speaker 1: and the Ravens early in the season, and you also
Speaker 1: have to kind of throw out the game against the
Speaker 1: Jets where they didn't have any wide receivers available. But
Speaker 1: even if you take those games out of the projection,
Speaker 1: when we look at the numbers from last year that
Speaker 1: we use in our projection, their projection only improves a
Speaker 1: little bit. Their offense is good, but not great. I
Speaker 1: think we have projected something like eighth in the league,
Speaker 1: which is around where it was last year. And their
Speaker 1: defense is just like they added some guys, but they
Speaker 1: also lost a lot of guys, Like there's no Okan
Speaker 1: job anymore. There's no Sheldon Richardson, there's no Olivier Vernon.
Speaker 1: They added secondary guys and they lost defensive lineman. Mhm.
Speaker 1: But is there any um thought in terms of the
Speaker 1: projections of like second year offenses, like there was such
Speaker 1: an improvement on their offenses or is that more working
Speaker 1: against them that like there was that big of a
Speaker 1: jump last year in terms of what they did offensively
Speaker 1: in their offensive line, and that maybe that's gonna be
Speaker 1: harder to keep up than people think. Yeah, it's sort
Speaker 1: of a balance between those two ideas. Like normally in
Speaker 1: your first year with new coordinators in a new system,
Speaker 1: all of the things being equal, you take a little
Speaker 1: bit of a step back. Obviously, Cleveland did not write
Speaker 1: they got a lot better on offense. So the fact
Speaker 1: that they're likely to get a little bit even better
Speaker 1: than that in their second year is offset by the
Speaker 1: fact that they already jumped so much last year that
Speaker 1: you see, you know, teams that normally jump a lot
Speaker 1: on one side of the ball tend to come back
Speaker 1: to the pack a little bit the following year. So
Speaker 1: the projection sort of bounces those two things out. I
Speaker 1: think it's fair. I mean, it's you know, and Aaron
Speaker 1: So and a lot of the hype around the and
Speaker 1: it's kind of you're on an island a little bit
Speaker 1: industry wise, because you kind of see a lot of
Speaker 1: people seeing the Browns is not just potentially an af
Speaker 1: C North favorite, but a Super Bowl contender, and perhaps
Speaker 1: they will be. We will find out, and then maybe
Speaker 1: you'll have to write to me a couplan next year.
Speaker 1: We'll we'll we'll find out in time. But a lot
Speaker 1: of people point to the Browns and I'll use them
Speaker 1: as an example to get into the next team. Here,
Speaker 1: the moves they made in free agency and the draft
Speaker 1: to fortify the middle of their defense, their secondary and
Speaker 1: when you add in a healthy Jendevion or a healthy
Speaker 1: Jendevion Clowney Miles Garrett of course now at full health
Speaker 1: post COVID, they'll make the leap. It's all projection, though
Speaker 1: the Chicago Bears, uh with that set a team eight
Speaker 1: and eight. Last year they played like an eight and
Speaker 1: eight team. They finished eight and eight, they snuck in
Speaker 1: the playoffs, got thet You have them projected in at
Speaker 1: seven point three wins, And I'm curious how with what
Speaker 1: you do because Justin Fields, what he brought to this organization,
Speaker 1: at least at the start, it's hope. They're in the
Speaker 1: hope game again because of Justin Fields. But for you
Speaker 1: and your job, how do you come down and they're
Speaker 1: actually not going to be better, They'll take a step
Speaker 1: back despite having this dynamic young player that we've never
Speaker 1: seen at this level. The fact is, dynamic young quarterbacks
Speaker 1: don't tend to play well in their rookie years. Like,
Speaker 1: for example, a lot of people feel like Miami should
Speaker 1: have already moved on from two A Tago Viola based
Speaker 1: on how he played last year. Do you know that
Speaker 1: two a Tago Violoa had an above average year for
Speaker 1: a first round quarterback going back how far like going
Speaker 1: back to but but that's normalized for you know of
Speaker 1: stats normalized, so we know that right, passage stats are
Speaker 1: way bigger now than they were thirty years ago, so
Speaker 1: that's accounted for. Um, he had an above average year
Speaker 1: when you compare him to to he was below average
Speaker 1: for the league, but for a first round quarterback, he
Speaker 1: was above average. And people don't a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't even think of him as a promising young quarterback anymore.
Speaker 1: The fact is, we want to believe that these guys
Speaker 1: are all gonna come in and be like what Justin
Speaker 1: Herbert was last year, but a lot of them don't.
Speaker 1: And you don't know who's gonna be that guy who
Speaker 1: performs in his rookie year until you see him actually
Speaker 1: do it. So you have to kind of go into
Speaker 1: the year expecting that rookie quarterbacks are going to struggle,
Speaker 1: even first round picks, Like do you, I feel like
Speaker 1: you have to be stronger like as as as an
Speaker 1: individual to be such a wet blanket over all this
Speaker 1: hope and like like marks depressed right now? No, no, No,
Speaker 1: you've crushed his dreams. There's Bears fans listening. You've scratched
Speaker 1: their dreams. Like, how do you hold up with that? Oh?
Speaker 1: I'm here for all of the Vikings fans and the
Speaker 1: teams were we're we're higher on them than Yeah, actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: you pick, you pick a team or two that you think, um,
Speaker 1: people aren't as high before we get to that, because
Speaker 1: I just it connects to what we just said with
Speaker 1: Justin fields and rookie quarterbacks. I see you got the
Speaker 1: Jacksonville Jaguars peg for seven point one. I believe. So
Speaker 1: is is this because Lawrence is a true outlier or
Speaker 1: is this one of those teams where people kind of
Speaker 1: got fogged over a little bit because of the one
Speaker 1: in fifteen and how it closed out? But there's actually
Speaker 1: more talent on this Like what are the factors that
Speaker 1: contribute to this team potentially jumping into mirror contention in
Speaker 1: the playoff race? Yeah, I think it's more the idea
Speaker 1: that there's probably more talent on this team than people
Speaker 1: thought there was. Last year, despite having the worst record,
Speaker 1: they weren't our worst team. Despite having the worst record,
Speaker 1: the Jets were. And there's just a lot of regression,
Speaker 1: and you know the general statistical idea that teams tend
Speaker 1: to progress towards the means, so bad teams get better.
Speaker 1: There is you know, adding the number one pick is good.
Speaker 1: You know in that we think that Lawrence is better
Speaker 1: than Gardner midshoe. But it's again like we're we're not
Speaker 1: projecting Lawrence to have an above average year because you
Speaker 1: just can't project a rookie quarterback to be above average.
Speaker 1: But I think their defense is better than people give
Speaker 1: them credit for. There's a lot of talent, young talent
Speaker 1: on that defense. Henderson only played eight games last year.
Speaker 1: Josh Allen only played eight games last year, and as
Speaker 1: we know, all Josh Allen's in their third years get
Speaker 1: much much better than they were before. So I'm expecting
Speaker 1: Josh Allen the defensive end to have like forty six
Speaker 1: sacks this year. I gotta admit, I think I think
Speaker 1: I made some like they've got the better Josh Allen jokes,
Speaker 1: like when he was playing well as a rookie. Oh
Speaker 1: made like all of my Josh Allen Bill's uh references
Speaker 1: from the first two seasons of his career. I look
Speaker 1: like an idiot right now. Well, world looks more like
Speaker 1: an idiot than anybody else, So I mean, listen, I
Speaker 1: feel like Josh Allen is really the outlier. Like you
Speaker 1: cannot expect quarterbacks with his kind of college accuracy to
Speaker 1: suddenly transform in the NFL the way he did. If
Speaker 1: you can, if all that mechanical stuff that Jordan Palmer
Speaker 1: does with him and that they had videos released, if
Speaker 1: that stuff really works, it totally changes the way you
Speaker 1: draft quarterbacks. But I need to see it work with
Speaker 1: someone else before I'm gonna go drafting guys who are
Speaker 1: under six in college, Greg ret Erin, because I liked
Speaker 1: where you were going about. Yeah, like, um, instead of
Speaker 1: instead of the doom and gloom, here are are there
Speaker 1: teams that your projection system loves this year more than
Speaker 1: more than probably most the analysts, and that you believe
Speaker 1: in too? Because I do see the thing you do.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's in the writing, but or when you're talking
Speaker 1: it's like, well, the projections like him a lot. I
Speaker 1: like that surprises me. I'm not sure, But which ones
Speaker 1: you know? Do? You? Are you guys high on that
Speaker 1: you that you believe in? Sure, I'll give you two
Speaker 1: teams that were really high on uh that other people
Speaker 1: are not quite as high as we are. One is
Speaker 1: Minnesota Vikings. There are a lot of reasons to believe
Speaker 1: last year they were sort of playoff contenders and kind
Speaker 1: of you know, but it was really a rebuilding year.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of ways in which they were
Speaker 1: particularly outliers in stats that tend to regress to the
Speaker 1: mean much stronger, Like their special teams were terrible, and
Speaker 1: they were like most of their sacks they took on
Speaker 1: third down and they were there was a huge difference
Speaker 1: between their offense on first and second down and their
Speaker 1: offense on third down, and that you know, your offense
Speaker 1: on third down tends to come changed to like meet
Speaker 1: what your offense is overall. Um Schedule strength is another one.
Speaker 1: Although we have Minnesota projected with a hard schedule, again,
Speaker 1: we have the whole NFC North projected with hard schedules.
Speaker 1: But we just think that that's a team that's going
Speaker 1: to be in playoff contention. I mean, they would have
Speaker 1: been the division favorite if Aaron Rodgers had been traded.
Speaker 1: But now everybody's making nice in Green Bay, so you
Speaker 1: can probably throw that out the window. But I think
Speaker 1: there are gonna definitely be in playoff contention. The other
Speaker 1: is the New England Patriots. So we have this variable
Speaker 1: in the defensive projections that based on personnel, right like
Speaker 1: how much personnel do you lose? And last year the
Speaker 1: Patriots lost more personnel than any team we attracted this
Speaker 1: variable on defense since two thousand three, and that was
Speaker 1: before the COVID opt outs, and then the COVID opt
Speaker 1: outs just took that to a ridiculous level. This year,
Speaker 1: the Patriots are adding on net more defensive talent than
Speaker 1: any team we've tracked since two thousand three, when you
Speaker 1: include high Tower returning and then all those guys they
Speaker 1: signed in free agency like god Shaw and Jude On
Speaker 1: and Jalen Mills and even to Harvey Langey, like just
Speaker 1: a ton of guys. They have a bunch of added
Speaker 1: defensive talent. And so we really like the Patriots to
Speaker 1: return to the playoffs this year, even though we don't
Speaker 1: think their offense is going to be above average. M
Speaker 1: how many people are just hitting you that you're just
Speaker 1: at home because you are a Patriots fan. I mean,
Speaker 1: I will say I am a Patriots fan and I
Speaker 1: admit it, and I will say Denver is fifth in
Speaker 1: that same stat where the Patriots are first, so we
Speaker 1: also like Denver, so there's a non Homer pick for you.
Speaker 1: If you think the Patriots are Homer pick. There you go.
Speaker 1: Aaron Shafts, You've said it all. Follow him on Twitter
Speaker 1: at FO Underscore A. Shafts S C. H A. T Z,
Speaker 1: and go over to Football Outsiders uh dot com if
Speaker 1: you want to get your hands on this almanac, which again,
Speaker 1: whether you're just want to bone up for the season,
Speaker 1: if you're a fantasy head, there's a lot to find
Speaker 1: there as well. Aaron, thank you very much, and I'm
Speaker 1: sorry that you are connected to doom and gloom for
Speaker 1: Mark Sessler and his personal life. But that's not your
Speaker 1: fault that I'm not your fault. It's just the way
Speaker 1: life is. It's just the way the numbers roll out
Speaker 1: of the computer. Man. It's I've got nothing against Cleveland.
Speaker 1: I would love for those fans to have a winner,
Speaker 1: and I know people in the front office, so I'm
Speaker 1: rooting for them. It her her when they got rid
Speaker 1: of Sassy hurt you more more. It hurt when they
Speaker 1: got rid of Sausci. But our man, Andrew Healy is
Speaker 1: still in the front office, so we're doing good with Cleveland. Alright,
Speaker 1: there he goes, Aaron shots, thank you very very much.
Speaker 1: All right, good stuff, good show. We're rolling. The season's
Speaker 1: coming like a freight train to Pat type, little Pat type.
Speaker 1: Little Uh. That's a little bit. I don't you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I think about this. What a
Speaker 1: weird team they are. I think they are on defense
Speaker 1: feels a little overplayed, but I still think they have
Speaker 1: too many questions on offense. But I'm also if Aaron
Speaker 1: Schatz is a Pet's lover, you know, you know who
Speaker 1: I am, So I trust this computer. The Pets to
Speaker 1: me strike me as a your classic nine and eight team.
Speaker 1: But I mean he has them at nine point eight wins,
Speaker 1: so that's right there. But all right, good stuff. One
Speaker 1: little item before we go. We have a real friend
Speaker 1: of the show who we met on our first trip
Speaker 1: um to London. Tracy Crouch used to work in the
Speaker 1: House of Commons. Um I have received were Greg and
Speaker 1: Greg and Eric and I were lucky to go on
Speaker 1: a tour of the House of Commons with her and
Speaker 1: another friend, Tim Shipman, and we saw like the Queen's Greg,
Speaker 1: do you remember this? We saw the Queen's toilet which
Speaker 1: most people are not allowed to see. We were actually
Speaker 1: responsible for Brexit. We got that going. We didn't very popular. Um. Anyways,
Speaker 1: Tracy Crouch, it was her birthday last week and she
Speaker 1: is just um. We have just heard that her partner Steve,
Speaker 1: proposed to her to be married. So that is a
Speaker 1: huge congratulations from our show. Congratulations love it. I I
Speaker 1: you know, if I had watched the Crown before um
Speaker 1: we had gone to London, I would have went with
Speaker 1: you that day. But as I recall, both West and
Speaker 1: myself said, no, we're just gonna lay in our hotel
Speaker 1: rooms rooms. First. This doesn't happen in the US, like
Speaker 1: multiple dignitaries don't reach out to us to be like, hey,
Speaker 1: let's let's give you a private tour of Congress or whatnot.
Speaker 1: But when when we're over there, it's just like roll
Speaker 1: out the red carpet. It happened. Serious respect, Dan, You're
Speaker 1: all about respect, that's that. I am all about respect.
Speaker 1: I would like to go to like invite us to
Speaker 1: the San Bernardino Town council meeting. Will be there. You
Speaker 1: ever been to San Bernardino. I don't think you want
Speaker 1: to go to government. We're just into it, all right.
Speaker 1: We uh, we drove to Big Bear a few years back.
Speaker 1: It was me, Mark and West and Mark kept on
Speaker 1: talking up this bar in San Bernardino. We gotta stop
Speaker 1: at this bar in San Bernardino. And uh so were
Speaker 1: you sure enough? Say okay, Mark, we'll stop there. We
Speaker 1: pull into this place. And if you've ever seen the movie, uh,
Speaker 1: Quentin Tarantino wrote it. I think Robert Rodriguez directed it.
Speaker 1: From dusk till Dawn when George Clooney and Tarantino in
Speaker 1: an acting role, get locked into a bar that actually
Speaker 1: is a vampire hang out and they just devour all
Speaker 1: truckers and anyone that's a living soul. Great movie, very violent,
Speaker 1: very just fun. Check it out. That's still dawn. That's
Speaker 1: where Mark took us in San Bernardino. I'll never forget
Speaker 1: that bar, just the sense of darkness that hung over it. Well,
Speaker 1: all right, so the first time I had gone, it
Speaker 1: had a little bit of a different vibe, but you
Speaker 1: are correct, that was the vibe that day. And I
Speaker 1: don't even think we stayed for more than five minutes.
Speaker 1: I think we we hauled it out and we stayed
Speaker 1: because we kept on waiting. West and I was like,
Speaker 1: what what is the magic of this place that Mark
Speaker 1: hyped up so much? And then the magic never came? Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: ownership change anyway, always good to reminisce about the good
Speaker 1: old days. Yes, Friday tomorrow around the NFL broadcast, we're
Speaker 1: making some changes to that show and UH we're working
Speaker 1: on it and we're looking forward to unveiling the UH
Speaker 1: broadcast two point oh come week one. But we still
Speaker 1: have great stuff coming up for you on Friday on
Speaker 1: the TV side, and then we'll be back Monday with
Speaker 1: another edition of this fair podcast. Thank you to everybody.
Speaker 1: Thank you to a little Romeo for understanding that a
Speaker 1: mistake was made and Greg was a class act all
Speaker 1: the way owning up to it. Does he understand I
Speaker 1: mean this is more popped than little Romeos having in
Speaker 1: a minute now. Yeah, you always gotta get that digging.
Speaker 1: Yeah all right, Dan had de signing oft floor A
Speaker 1: little what do we decide A little sixty A little
Speaker 1: I don't know, little gee, little ge Uh, the old well,
Speaker 1: the scissling quiet storry, uh, and Ricky Hollywood behind the
Speaker 1: virtual glass till Monday, he'd the call sp