Speaker 1: Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, welcome to Movie Crush Friday Interview edition here
Speaker 1: with Paul. Hello, Paul. Hey, how's it going. It's going great.
Speaker 1: How are you pretty good? Pretty good? You've got on
Speaker 1: your phone voice? My phone voice? Yeah, didn't didn't you
Speaker 1: have a Is that dogs at your house or my house?
Speaker 1: That's me? Yeah, there's I'm in front of a window.
Speaker 1: And so you might hear some random atmosphere. Hey, dude
Speaker 1: in quarantine on these movie crushes were all about atmosphere.
Speaker 1: Well you will, you might get what you're looking for. Then. Uh,
Speaker 1: Ruby's been popping in for most of these shows, but
Speaker 1: she actually spent the night at my mom's last night,
Speaker 1: so she will not be popping in right now, sadly. Dang.
Speaker 1: Oh well, but she says hi, she says, go Superman.
Speaker 1: Screw you, Batman. She's team Superman. Huh. Yeah, So we're
Speaker 1: gonna we're going to talk about Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: we should just say that, you know, you and I
Speaker 1: had been doing the Sofia coppel of series and you said, hey,
Speaker 1: you want to mix it up since we're quarantined to
Speaker 1: do something just a little more Uh, you know fun?
Speaker 1: Was this movie fun? No? Yeah, maybe that's this was
Speaker 1: a bad choice in retrospect, but it's something different, Yes,
Speaker 1: something different, which is good because I think people have
Speaker 1: been enjoying the uh during this lockdown period, these episodes
Speaker 1: that are a little I even got Casey to lighten
Speaker 1: it up. What did he do? Fidelity? He did high fidelity? Nice?
Speaker 1: Was that a good one? It was? It was good.
Speaker 1: I quite enjoyed that movie, So it's one talking to
Speaker 1: Casey about it. By the way, I really like your
Speaker 1: your new new look with the sans beard. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: already coming back, as you can tell. Are they are
Speaker 1: they gonna have to change the illustration art to remove
Speaker 1: your beard on the cover art. No, I did think
Speaker 1: about that. I was like, do I have to change
Speaker 1: my bit moji? Oh boy? But it's coming back, you know. Uh.
Speaker 1: Ruby was not a fan, and she has since gotten
Speaker 1: used to it, but she's like, grow the beard back, Daddy,
Speaker 1: what Ruby wants? Ruby gets that's right, you get a
Speaker 1: little beard going. Yeah, I've always got kind of a
Speaker 1: little five o'clock shadow beard, but uh, letting my own
Speaker 1: regular hair grow out though, just because I haven't been
Speaker 1: to a barber in a while. So yeah, so I
Speaker 1: get decidedly younger and rounder when the beard is gone.
Speaker 1: I I showed my pick sure or I showed that
Speaker 1: picture of you on Facebook to Alice, my girlfriend, and
Speaker 1: she said, you look like Nathan Lane. So I got
Speaker 1: some of Nathan Lane. I got some lead singer of
Speaker 1: the Descendants. I got who else? There were about five
Speaker 1: or six different people that I got, And you know,
Speaker 1: and Nathan Lane is It's fine. He's a treasure, He's
Speaker 1: a national treasure. Come on, no, I don't care. I
Speaker 1: clearly don't care what I look like. Paul. So you
Speaker 1: suggested a bunch of a list of movies and one
Speaker 1: of them was Down with Love, and I said, you
Speaker 1: know what, I've never seen that, uh, and I've heard
Speaker 1: as good. Let's do that. And you bullied me into
Speaker 1: fucking Batman versus Superman Colin Dawn of Justice Colon Ultimate Edition,
Speaker 1: which we had to push this recording because I was
Speaker 1: gonna watch it last night and then I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'll just get up in the morning
Speaker 1: and watch it and then record right after. I did
Speaker 1: not realize it was a three hour movie, so we
Speaker 1: had to kind of push this by well, probably forty
Speaker 1: five minutes. I want to thank you, Chuck for indulging
Speaker 1: me in this film. I have a lot to say
Speaker 1: on it. I've got almost three pages of notes that
Speaker 1: I typed up since last night. No, that's fantastic. I'm glad.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to dig in, and I appreciate, appreciate you
Speaker 1: being willing to play ball here with me. No, of course, man.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'll go ahead and level set right
Speaker 1: out of the gate and say that I saw the
Speaker 1: regular theatrical version in the theaters. Uh it, I remember
Speaker 1: not really loving it at the time. I will say
Speaker 1: the Ultimate edition is feels like a fuller experience, and
Speaker 1: I think that thirty minutes helped, which is not always
Speaker 1: the case. Uh. And I liked the movie now really
Speaker 1: don't don't love it, but I didn't like it. It
Speaker 1: was a bit of a slog at three hours, but um,
Speaker 1: I wasn't like ever board. There's just a lot to
Speaker 1: unpack in this movie, So start unpacking. Absolutely absolutely so. Uh,
Speaker 1: I guess I should start where I'm coming from with
Speaker 1: this movie. I've actually never seen the theatrical cut. I
Speaker 1: only came to this movie, uh seeing having seen the
Speaker 1: Ultimate Edition. I didn't see it in theaters. I actually
Speaker 1: wasn't really interested in kind of the d C movies
Speaker 1: at that time. Uh. And so I guess just too
Speaker 1: two level set where I'm coming from. Uh. When you know,
Speaker 1: you talk about the Marvel versus d C battle, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say I really have a dog in that fight. Um.
Speaker 1: I I see most of the Marvel movies. Uh, I
Speaker 1: didn't see many of the d C movies until seeing
Speaker 1: this one and then kind of going back and and
Speaker 1: seeing some of the other ones like Man of Steel
Speaker 1: and and Wonder Woman, which I liked a lot. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so that's kind of where I'm coming from. And
Speaker 1: especially because with these DC movies especially, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of toxic there can be a lot of toxic fandom
Speaker 1: out there, okay, Uh that you know, when Batman v.
Speaker 1: Superman came out or Justice League, these movies were not
Speaker 1: well received by the critics, especially compared to Marvel, and
Speaker 1: so a lot of people saying that, you know, oh,
Speaker 1: people are just biased against DC blah blah blah blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. I don't Again, I don't really care much
Speaker 1: about all that. I think Batman v. Superman is a
Speaker 1: legitimately great film. It might actually be one of my
Speaker 1: favorite superhero films full stuff. Oh okay, all right, that
Speaker 1: is a level setting. Um. And I will also say
Speaker 1: that while I did enjoy the movie today we I
Speaker 1: just crushed out The Winter Soldier with Annie, and seeing
Speaker 1: these two movies sort of back to back, uh, this
Speaker 1: one suffers a little bit because I just feel like
Speaker 1: Winner and you know, different films obviously, but Winter Soldier
Speaker 1: was such a sort of a richer experience character wise
Speaker 1: and so grounded in reality and had I think some
Speaker 1: amazing grounded in reality chase and fight sequences, and so
Speaker 1: it was hard to get that out of my head
Speaker 1: because this movie is not that and it and it's
Speaker 1: not trying to be. So it's not fair really to
Speaker 1: judge it against that this movie is not grounded in
Speaker 1: reality at all, and it's very uh, very over the
Speaker 1: top in the action sequences, although I did follow it
Speaker 1: better than other Zack Snyder action sequences and other films
Speaker 1: just follow literally following the action. Yeah. I haven't listened
Speaker 1: to the Annie episode yet, but I'm I'm I'm sure
Speaker 1: it was great. She's she obviously knows her stuff and
Speaker 1: she's a Big Winter Soldier fan in particular, So I'm
Speaker 1: excited to listen to that one. That's a good one.
Speaker 1: So so that's interesting. So I will say that when
Speaker 1: it comes to the Marvel films, like I said, I
Speaker 1: see most of them. My general take on most of
Speaker 1: the Marvel films is they all kind of are decent,
Speaker 1: and they're a handful of them that I think, for
Speaker 1: me rise above that handful might be Guardians of the Galaxy,
Speaker 1: the First Captain America, maybe Black Panther. Uh. For me,
Speaker 1: the rest of them kind of sit in this decent
Speaker 1: but not great category where I kind of get fatigued
Speaker 1: because so many of them feel like they are movies
Speaker 1: made by committee. And I will say, whether you love
Speaker 1: or hate Batman v. Superman, it's one of the rare
Speaker 1: cases where I feel like the director was given free
Speaker 1: reign mostly to make the movie they wanted to make,
Speaker 1: for better, for better, for worse. Yeah, I mean, all right, Well,
Speaker 1: there's a couple of questions I have for you, um
Speaker 1: and you can answer them in either order. Do you
Speaker 1: are you familiar with the Batman Versus Superman storyline in
Speaker 1: the common and what are your general Zax Schneider thoughts
Speaker 1: uh period, uh no, not really familiar with the comics.
Speaker 1: The storyline in the comics are you okay? So we're
Speaker 1: both coming and coming at it from a similar angle.
Speaker 1: Zack Snyder. Um, I have a few holes in his
Speaker 1: filmography that I haven't seen. Uh so, I haven't seen
Speaker 1: all of his work. I think he can be really great,
Speaker 1: he can be really bad. I think he sometimes gets
Speaker 1: a h an unfair shake, perhaps because he kind he
Speaker 1: kind of gets seen as this guy making these big
Speaker 1: dumb movies that are like all about strong masculine men
Speaker 1: and that seeing how saying how that's awesome, like three
Speaker 1: stuff where I think what's actually in the films is
Speaker 1: a bit more nuanced than that. And this one and
Speaker 1: this one definitely yeah yeah so and the third question,
Speaker 1: sorry I forgot, was um just general thought son Ben
Speaker 1: Affleck as Batman, which was a bit of a controversy
Speaker 1: at first and sits well with some people, doesn't sit
Speaker 1: as well with others. I in my notes I wrote,
Speaker 1: he might be my favorite Batman ever. Wow, all right, well,
Speaker 1: let's hear about it. I think he just really commits
Speaker 1: to the role, and I think he he does a
Speaker 1: great job as Bruce Wayne especially, Uh, he's you know,
Speaker 1: he's a little bit older, he's got the hair is
Speaker 1: kind of graying, and he's he's a guy that's seen
Speaker 1: some ship. Um So, maybe yet to jump into the movie,
Speaker 1: we can talk about this depiction of Batman. Um. So,
Speaker 1: you know, you've got the Christopher Nolan Batman movies. And
Speaker 1: one of the one of the readings of those films
Speaker 1: as a whole, you know, they came out in the
Speaker 1: early two thousands, is that they're all kind of reactions
Speaker 1: to We're gonna get a little political here, reactions to
Speaker 1: the to the Bush Years, the President Bush years post
Speaker 1: nine eleven. Here you've got this anti hero vigilante who
Speaker 1: has to break bend the rules in order to keep
Speaker 1: people safe. And some people, some people could read that
Speaker 1: as that's maybe what president how President Bush saw himself
Speaker 1: in the War on Terror. And for example, in the
Speaker 1: Dark Night, you have the climax literally Batman using illegal
Speaker 1: cell phone surveillance technology to locate the Joker, and it's
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of messed up. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: violation of civil rights, you know, going into the real
Speaker 1: life Patriot Act stuff like that. So all that's to
Speaker 1: say here we have a Batman that's hateful, that's vengeful,
Speaker 1: that's mean, that's angry Batman. Yet I think, yes, absolutely
Speaker 1: he Um, he's alcoholic, he takes pills, he's racked with
Speaker 1: trial childhood trauma. Uh. And again he circumvents the rule
Speaker 1: of law, except this time he goes really far. Uh.
Speaker 1: He kills people, he literally brands them. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: big deal in this movie. Um, that he's gone to
Speaker 1: the dark side. Yeah. And I think it's it's an
Speaker 1: interesting take because you see a Batman, you see kind
Speaker 1: of how messed up this idea of Batman can be.
Speaker 1: This this billionaire who has unlimited resources, who can kind
Speaker 1: of work above outside the law and do whatever he wants.
Speaker 1: And in the movie, you know, you see them say
Speaker 1: how he he becomes judge, jury and executioner for these
Speaker 1: for these criminals. Yeah. And you know, the movie opens
Speaker 1: with sort of one of the and I don't know
Speaker 1: if this was on purpose or just sort of the
Speaker 1: natural order of how things go with this storyline, but
Speaker 1: it opens with the battle what was it called the
Speaker 1: Battle of New York or not New York. I guess
Speaker 1: it would be the Battle of Metropolis. Metropolis with Superman vs.
Speaker 1: Odd and sort of not sort of like very much
Speaker 1: addresses some of the criticism from the fans, which was, ah,
Speaker 1: they have fucking destroyed Metropolis and killed untold thousands of people,
Speaker 1: ostensibly that you never really see that because of this
Speaker 1: battle with Zod, and there's a lot of blowback from
Speaker 1: fans about that in that movie. And that's sort of
Speaker 1: the central driving force in this film of for for
Speaker 1: Batman and what he wants to do, because he's he's
Speaker 1: the guy that wakes up, sees Metropolis, rex sees his
Speaker 1: sees his business and his building cut in half, and
Speaker 1: and that one that the little girl you know that's
Speaker 1: scene at the beginning is really powerful, and he's the
Speaker 1: first one that's like Superman is bad guy, yeah, not
Speaker 1: good guy. Yeah. I think that opening where we see
Speaker 1: the events from a different perspective is really great because
Speaker 1: first you got I think you got to give Snyder
Speaker 1: a lot of credit for addressing one of these big
Speaker 1: fair criticisms of Man of Steel, which was sort of
Speaker 1: indiscriminate killing of untold thousands just so these guys could
Speaker 1: have their their climactic battle on a playground that's earth,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, they're big dick contest. Yes, absolutely, And
Speaker 1: so you see it from the ground perspective, and I
Speaker 1: think the you know, it evokes uh, to me, it
Speaker 1: evokes imagery of nine eleven very consciously, you know, especially
Speaker 1: when the building crashes down and the smoke rushes towards
Speaker 1: Bruce Wayne. That's that's nine eleven, nine eleven imagery right there.
Speaker 1: And so I love how he uses a criticism from
Speaker 1: the last movie to make and makes it kind of
Speaker 1: the central conflict of the sequel. Yeah, yeah, because you know,
Speaker 1: Batman's is sort of the first one to get that
Speaker 1: seed planet and it said because, like I said, very personally,
Speaker 1: his business and industry was affected, but the whole world
Speaker 1: starts to get on board in this movie. Uh. And
Speaker 1: that is sort of this central conflict, which is Superman
Speaker 1: picks and chooses who he saves and who is who
Speaker 1: dies in a certain way. Um, and all it takes
Speaker 1: is for this alien to change his mind and then
Speaker 1: we could you know, the whole god man false god
Speaker 1: concept is and savior thing. Like there's a lot of
Speaker 1: really heavy themes in here about Superman that if you
Speaker 1: were just a casual Superman fan and didn't read the
Speaker 1: comics and stuff. It's sort of pretty heavy stuff. You know. Sorry,
Speaker 1: Siri just talked to me for a second, but you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's like, it's some pretty weighty stuff here with
Speaker 1: the Savior of the Messiah, the God complex. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: I think. Um. I have a quote here that that's
Speaker 1: from Deborah Snyder, who's Zack Snyder's wife, but also I
Speaker 1: think producer and producer this movie, and she was talking
Speaker 1: about sort of the negative reaction to Batman be Superman,
Speaker 1: and she said, people don't like to see their heroes deconstructed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think this movie very much does that with
Speaker 1: these two characters, where it both of them, it questions
Speaker 1: the sort of the very foundations of what they're built on.
Speaker 1: And that's why the movie is so interesting for me,
Speaker 1: because it dares to do that, and even if it
Speaker 1: isn't entirely successful, it still dares to to give you
Speaker 1: something different, you know. Yeah, and it's not. Um. It
Speaker 1: kind of occurred to me like somewhere an hour or
Speaker 1: two that there's not a there's really not a protagonist.
Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, it's hard to figure out
Speaker 1: who the good guy is. And I think maybe that
Speaker 1: had something to do with the critical reception is people.
Speaker 1: That makes people uncomfortable when there aren't very clear sort
Speaker 1: of guidelines as to who you should be rooting for. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, you can, may you choose to identify
Speaker 1: with Batman or Superman, but when they start doing things
Speaker 1: that you don't like, When Batman starts branding people, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know you're like, wait, wait a minute, this is
Speaker 1: this is the guy, this is my hero. It really
Speaker 1: kind of throws into question who we identify high with
Speaker 1: and what we see is heroic you know. Well yeah,
Speaker 1: and then the same goes for Superman. Um. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's still a good guy per se in this movie,
Speaker 1: but he's definitely not painted as the all American hero. Um.
Speaker 1: It is more God in Messiah savior stuff going on.
Speaker 1: That that great scene when he goes to uh, Mexico
Speaker 1: and uh and saves that you know from the fire,
Speaker 1: saves that woman and then he's standing there and everyone's
Speaker 1: sort of laying their hands on him. Uh maybe a
Speaker 1: little heavy handed, but pretty powerful image, you know, absolutely,
Speaker 1: And that sequence I actually rewatched this morning because it's
Speaker 1: one of my favorites. Where it starts with that scene
Speaker 1: where he's saving a child, and then it's kind of
Speaker 1: becomes a montage of him saving people intercut with these
Speaker 1: like talking heads on TV like Neil Degrass Tyson and
Speaker 1: all these people debating, debating him. And it's so interesting
Speaker 1: when I rewatched at this time, how on one hand
Speaker 1: the scenes you re see Superman in that sequence, he's
Speaker 1: doing unambiguously good deeds. He's literally saving people left and
Speaker 1: right in each sequence, and yet the talking heads are
Speaker 1: debating about whether he's truly a force for good or
Speaker 1: you know, how does this make us feel that we're
Speaker 1: not the center of the universe anymore and that there's
Speaker 1: someone who's more powerful and could turn on us at
Speaker 1: the drop of a hat. And I think that gets
Speaker 1: to one of the the big themes of this movie,
Speaker 1: which is Superman losing his faith in humanity. M hm,
Speaker 1: whether humanity is even you know, worth saving. And Man
Speaker 1: of Steel kind of talked about that too, But that
Speaker 1: and again, that's that's a question that makes people uncomfortable
Speaker 1: because Superman is supposed to represent the best of what
Speaker 1: we can be, right, Yeah, And you know there's been
Speaker 1: I mean one too well, I can't count the Superman
Speaker 1: movies one, two, three, four, five, at least five or
Speaker 1: six maybe before this, Yeah, at least going back to
Speaker 1: Christopher Reeve, that really drilled into the notion that he
Speaker 1: is only good. He is only apple pie and baseball
Speaker 1: and this Kryptonian somehow yet all American, kind of a
Speaker 1: hero in a lot of ways. Uh, And this movie
Speaker 1: never sort of paints him in that light. And and
Speaker 1: that's an awkward experience for a Superman fan. I think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I really like there's a line in the movie that
Speaker 1: I think Perry White says its Lawrence fish Fishburn's character
Speaker 1: at the Daily Planet. He kind of brates Clark Kent.
Speaker 1: He says, you know, it's not night Nick apples don't
Speaker 1: cost him Nickel Clark. And I think that gets out
Speaker 1: of a big question of this movie was which is
Speaker 1: is there even a place for Superman in the modern
Speaker 1: world or is the modern world too cynical and mistrusting
Speaker 1: to have somebody who who we hold up as sort
Speaker 1: of pure goodness? And you know you you said earlier,
Speaker 1: how compared to Winter Soldier, this movie isn't realistic, so
Speaker 1: to speak. Yeah, not as grounded, not as grounded. And
Speaker 1: I agree with you to a certain extent, But I
Speaker 1: think the questions it poses are are extremely relevant to
Speaker 1: the real world. Yeah, I agree, and and think in
Speaker 1: some ways this is one of the more uh modern
Speaker 1: as far as the themes that explores modern relevant superhero movies. Um.
Speaker 1: Another aspect of that is the media and how like
Speaker 1: you said, he's doing all these great acts, but the
Speaker 1: perception has changed. Sure, the destroying Metropolis had a lot
Speaker 1: to do with it, but it's really the media sort
Speaker 1: of running away with this new story. And you see it,
Speaker 1: you know, in all the news clips and the Charlie
Speaker 1: Rose bits and Neil de grasse Tyson right down to
Speaker 1: the Daily Planet and how they're covering it, and how
Speaker 1: Perry uh, Perry White just switches sort of in the
Speaker 1: middle to uh, you know, I can't remember what headline
Speaker 1: he barked out, but something about you know, is this
Speaker 1: it for Superman? Are we done with him? Something? You know,
Speaker 1: along those lines. So like the modern portrayal of the
Speaker 1: media as completely in control of shaping the public consciousness
Speaker 1: is pretty relevant, I think. Yeah, I agree, And you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's this thing where regardless of what side of
Speaker 1: the political divide you fall on. Yeah, I think there's
Speaker 1: a certain agreement on both sides that that's true, you know,
Speaker 1: varying degrees depending on which side you're on. Yeah. Absolutely. Um,
Speaker 1: it's interesting. You know, this is a three hour movie,
Speaker 1: this Ultimate edition, but like I said, I think it
Speaker 1: fared better than the two and a half hour. Um,
Speaker 1: maybe we should talk a little bit about some of
Speaker 1: the differences. I think, most notably the the whole Africa
Speaker 1: subplot is much more robust in this version and makes
Speaker 1: a lot more sense now than it did in the
Speaker 1: other version. Okay, so, so was it just much more
Speaker 1: truncated in the original. Yeah, I mean there wasn't, um if.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard for me to remember because I
Speaker 1: saw in the theater so long ago, but it's never
Speaker 1: really you don't ever fully get what was going on
Speaker 1: with him going to Africa to save Lois and that
Speaker 1: being a set up to make it look like he
Speaker 1: had laser eyed all those people. It's not like there's
Speaker 1: just I can't remember how like what where they cut,
Speaker 1: but they left out way too much from Africa subplot
Speaker 1: to where it didn't make a lot of sense. And
Speaker 1: I remember that kind of bugging me at the time.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, well yeah, again, I have I haven't
Speaker 1: seen the theatrical cut. But I do think that sequences,
Speaker 1: and it's that sequence occurs pretty early in the movie,
Speaker 1: if I'm not taking it's right, right at the very beginning.
Speaker 1: Uh And and it kind of sets the stage for
Speaker 1: this this ongoing plot threat of manipulation, of people being manipulated,
Speaker 1: mostly by of course Lex Luthor, but medium manipulation. You know,
Speaker 1: everyone's being manipulated, and ultimately the manipulation climaxes in the
Speaker 1: showdown between Batman and Superman. But but but I think
Speaker 1: you're right in that Africa subplot. Another interesting aspect of
Speaker 1: it is this this thread that's you kind of see
Speaker 1: in the movie pop pop up from time to time,
Speaker 1: which is this idea of um, third world countries or
Speaker 1: countries predominantly populated by people of color being kind of
Speaker 1: used as props for the for the whims of these
Speaker 1: well wealthy white people. Yeah, you know, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: very much in there, I think. And the way the
Speaker 1: woman who gives the false testimony that she saw Superman
Speaker 1: destroy the village, and then of course later you learn
Speaker 1: that she's being basically threatened by Lex Luthor's goons to
Speaker 1: to give this false testimony. Yeah, and I mean, let's
Speaker 1: talk about Lex for a second. Do you what did
Speaker 1: you think about Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Man. He's he
Speaker 1: just goes for broke. It's so goofy that I do
Speaker 1: kind of admire it, and I think it's Honestly, I
Speaker 1: think it's great casting because he's basically playing like this
Speaker 1: West Coast tech billionaire and he's played by the same
Speaker 1: guy who played Mark Zuckerberg in the Social Network. It's
Speaker 1: hard to ignore those two that link. Um maybe a
Speaker 1: little shade being thrown there. I don't know with casting. Um,
Speaker 1: I love Jesse Eisenberg a lot as an actor, but
Speaker 1: him has Lex sort of bugged me a little. Um,
Speaker 1: the sort of twitchy tech bro bugged me maybe because
Speaker 1: I just don't like that kind of person that much
Speaker 1: in real life. But um, I didn't love him, like
Speaker 1: I give him credit for really going for it. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I think the idea here is that he's Lex Jr. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he's not even the main guy, right Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah, because he references his dad a
Speaker 1: few times. Uh. So that's an interesting spin on it too,
Speaker 1: that Lex Jr. Is Is trying to um essentially the
Speaker 1: the whole driving force of the film. Is him sort
Speaker 1: of orchestrating this battle where and this is where I
Speaker 1: just have a few not problems, but questions. Is he
Speaker 1: what's his endgame here? Is he orchestrating this battle? Who
Speaker 1: does he want dead? Both of them? It's a good question. Um,
Speaker 1: I think he so what what is what threatens him?
Speaker 1: I think he's threatened by the idea that there's somebody
Speaker 1: more powerful than him. Yeah, and so I think probably
Speaker 1: he's he's more afraid of Superman in the end. I
Speaker 1: think so for sure. And so what he's trying to
Speaker 1: do by getting Superman to fight Batman and kill him
Speaker 1: is to show the world that Superman is not all good,
Speaker 1: because he keeps saying, you know, there's no such thing
Speaker 1: as power. With power cannot be innocent, is what he says. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you can't be all powerful and all good. He
Speaker 1: says that two or three different times, different versions of
Speaker 1: that same thing. Yeah, And it's you know, talking about
Speaker 1: him being Lex Jr. There's at least one or two
Speaker 1: lines where he mentions like his dad being abusive, and
Speaker 1: so again here's another character with daddy issues. But you know,
Speaker 1: if if as a child he saw this his dad
Speaker 1: as his this all powerful person who is very far
Speaker 1: from good. I'm not saying I certainly not saying I
Speaker 1: understand I sympathize with Lex Luthor, but I you can
Speaker 1: at least understand why somebody would be twisted into thinking
Speaker 1: that way. Yeah. I mean there's a lot of dad
Speaker 1: stuff going on in this movie, because you've got I mean,
Speaker 1: all three of the male leads have daddy issues, whether
Speaker 1: it's Bruce never knowing his father to Clark and his
Speaker 1: his dad was kind of the opposite. He was almost
Speaker 1: pure goodness. Um, and then Lex, you know, had this
Speaker 1: I guess, abusive, evil villain dad. Yeah, And so he's,
Speaker 1: you know, he's he doesn't trust power basically, and he's
Speaker 1: somebody who's one of the most powerful people in the
Speaker 1: world until Superman comes along, and so of course he
Speaker 1: wants to he he knows he can't defeat Superman by
Speaker 1: fighting him. Yeah, so he has to get the world
Speaker 1: to distrust Superman and turn against him. I think it works. So,
Speaker 1: so that's his endgame. But what about uh, and we're
Speaker 1: you know, we can jump all around here at the
Speaker 1: end with the super Zod Beast Doomsday. Oh, is that
Speaker 1: what it's called. I think so yeah, And I think
Speaker 1: Doomsday is a sorry for any comic people out there
Speaker 1: who are shaking their heads right now, but Doomsday is
Speaker 1: like a character from the comics. From the comics. Okay,
Speaker 1: well that makes more sense because at the end, during
Speaker 1: that battle, which was pretty cool, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: what's his endgame here? Like can he control uh Doomsday?
Speaker 1: And like what happens, Like let's say Doomsday kills everybody?
Speaker 1: Then does he just like you know, say all right,
Speaker 1: come on back to your to your doghouse and get
Speaker 1: in there. Here's your treat Like does he have control?
Speaker 1: I can't. I couldn't figure that part out. M I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's made explicitly clear, but I think
Speaker 1: the idea is that he kind of controls him because
Speaker 1: you know, he like he cuts his own hand when
Speaker 1: he's giving birth to do Doomsday, so it's like blood
Speaker 1: of my blood. So I think the idea is like
Speaker 1: he's the father to Doomsday, and so Doomsday in theory
Speaker 1: listen to it, to his commands, and maybe that's maybe
Speaker 1: he that's why he keeps going after Superman because Lex
Speaker 1: is like kill him, kill him. I don't know. Right. Um.
Speaker 1: The other cool thing that happens in this movie is
Speaker 1: you get the setup of the Justice League and uh,
Speaker 1: some pretty badass Wonder Woman stuff. Um, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's teased out at at sort of the first third
Speaker 1: when Diana is at the at Lex Luthor's um benefit
Speaker 1: and steals Bruce Wayne's a little you know, tech device
Speaker 1: and gets away and he's like, who is this lady? Um?
Speaker 1: And then you know, we get the files of a
Speaker 1: flash an Aquaman and who was the other one the
Speaker 1: one at Cyborg No, yeah, I don't know his name,
Speaker 1: but he's some cyborg guy bionic man. Sorry, comic book
Speaker 1: fans are so mad at us right now. But I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, did you see Justice League? No? I haven't
Speaker 1: seen Justice League, And so part of the reach is
Speaker 1: your deal? Why is this your favorite movie? I'm I'm
Speaker 1: waiting for the potential of a Snyder cut to come out.
Speaker 1: Oh good lord, you want the three hour version. But see,
Speaker 1: so it's interesting because this this was actually the the
Speaker 1: one week part of the movie was all the little
Speaker 1: teases of Justice League minus minus Wonder Woman, because she's
Speaker 1: actually part of the story of this movie. Like it
Speaker 1: felt kind of obvious that Okay, we're gonna stop the
Speaker 1: movie for a second so we can tease out the
Speaker 1: next movie. Yeah. I mean that was clearly going on,
Speaker 1: but I forgave it of that because you know, it
Speaker 1: was just that they had to do it. It's sort
Speaker 1: of like housekeeping. They're like, you know this, I mean,
Speaker 1: this is called Dawn of Justice. So the implication is
Speaker 1: is that these are the events that led to the
Speaker 1: formation of the Justice League, which is what happens at
Speaker 1: the end. So Batman figures out this whole white Portuguese
Speaker 1: Kryptonite plan and that's uh, that's one of the big
Speaker 1: through lines through this thing is is is kryptonite This
Speaker 1: big chunk of kryptonite is discovered and who has got
Speaker 1: their hands on it? And he's very much playing Batman
Speaker 1: against Um ultimately what ends up being against his own
Speaker 1: interests with this whole kryptonite stuff, making kryptonite weapons to
Speaker 1: battle Superman. Uh. The other thing I didn't quite get
Speaker 1: was when he created At one point in the movie,
Speaker 1: did he he create uh super Beast? Was that that
Speaker 1: was as the fight was going on or before I
Speaker 1: think he started to create him, because you see him
Speaker 1: lower Odd's dead body into that goo yeah, he starts
Speaker 1: to create him earlier than that. I think maybe as
Speaker 1: like an insurance policy in case the Superman Batman fight
Speaker 1: doesn't go the way he's hoping. Yeah. I mean, let's
Speaker 1: talk about the fight, did you It seemed a little
Speaker 1: anticlimactic to me, um upon second viewing, because it's built
Speaker 1: up as Batman versus Superman the whole movie. They're sort
Speaker 1: of driving toward each other, and then the battle itself
Speaker 1: is like ten or eleven minutes long, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's not It's not like I thought it was terrible.
Speaker 1: I thought they executed it fairly well, but it had
Speaker 1: a little bit of an anticlimactic feel for me. Do
Speaker 1: you wish it was maybe ten minutes longer? Check, I
Speaker 1: don't know about longer, but I'm just kidding. I don't know.
Speaker 1: They fight and hit each other a bunch, and at
Speaker 1: the end, save Martha is is you know what kind
Speaker 1: of ends it all, and then they're they're bros. So
Speaker 1: I agree with you, I think, Um, I don't know
Speaker 1: if the fight is meant to be like satisfying though,
Speaker 1: you know, because we know we know they're probably not
Speaker 1: going to one person is not going to kill the other.
Speaker 1: So there's a sense of like we're just waiting for
Speaker 1: something to happen to end this fight. Yeah, it's kind
Speaker 1: of like the fight in Captain America's Civil War. It's
Speaker 1: good guys fighting good guys, and we know nobody's really
Speaker 1: going to die, and so I think that might be
Speaker 1: part of it. It's almost like the Matrix Uh sequels.
Speaker 1: Once everybody was so powerful, I felt like a lot
Speaker 1: of those fight sequences didn't have the stakes that they needed,
Speaker 1: right And I think in this one, though, it's interesting
Speaker 1: because I think, even though that that actual physical fight
Speaker 1: doesn't happen until near the end, there's sort of a
Speaker 1: battle of ideologies going all throughout the movie, and so
Speaker 1: when we get to the actual fight, for me at least,
Speaker 1: it's less about you know, who's gonna win and who's
Speaker 1: gonna get the best punches in and more about like
Speaker 1: these two ideologies that are both at their breaking point,
Speaker 1: who's going to give first? And of course the moment
Speaker 1: that happens is the Martha sequence, which a lot of
Speaker 1: people make fun of. Yeah, Like a lot of people
Speaker 1: say it's cheesy and like, oh my gosh, he changes
Speaker 1: his whole mind because of hearing that his mom has
Speaker 1: the same name as as his own mom. And I
Speaker 1: get that. It's it's I get that, I get that
Speaker 1: it's it's a little cheesy, it's it's this weirdly like
Speaker 1: sentimental note in this ultimately grim movie. But I think
Speaker 1: that moment for me works on less of a literal
Speaker 1: level and more of a symbolic level, in the sense
Speaker 1: that at um Batman, the thing that makes Batman finally
Speaker 1: change how he feels is that he can finally recognize
Speaker 1: himself in the other, in this alien Yeah, that didn't
Speaker 1: bother me too much. Actually, Uh, I thought I thought
Speaker 1: that worked well, um, because like you know, they really
Speaker 1: established with the up Team three telling you know, re
Speaker 1: re showing of of what happened to Bruce's parents at
Speaker 1: the beginning, you know, getting shot after the theater by
Speaker 1: by by Joker or who ends up being Joker. Um.
Speaker 1: So it's like it's really you really get the sense
Speaker 1: of his pain of losing his parents and that it's
Speaker 1: sort of that rage that like when someone's in a
Speaker 1: rage and like one word can snap someone out of it,
Speaker 1: and that word being his mom's name. And then I
Speaker 1: think Amy Adams rushing in there really helps because Amy
Speaker 1: Adams is the best and she um as an actor,
Speaker 1: so she really like she grounds this movie in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, I think, because her acting is so
Speaker 1: good always, and so when she comes in and she's like,
Speaker 1: that's his mother's name, that's his mother's name. I thought
Speaker 1: that worked. I liked it. That's that's a really good Uh.
Speaker 1: I really like that interpretation of at least how how
Speaker 1: it affected you in terms of somebody who can be
Speaker 1: in a ray of blind rage and then one like
Speaker 1: trigger word can diffuse it. I hadn't really thought of
Speaker 1: it in that, but I like that a lot. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Well it's almost like the um when someone's in a
Speaker 1: hypnotic trance and there's like the safe word or whatever
Speaker 1: that snaps them back out. Uh. So I thought it worked,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I don't. I don't agree with
Speaker 1: that criticism me neither. Uh. Let's talk about some of
Speaker 1: the better action sequences. Um. We get a really sweet
Speaker 1: to batmobile sequence in this movie. Uh. It's and one
Speaker 1: of the citizens of Snyder is that his movies are
Speaker 1: too dark literally lighting wise, and you can't always see
Speaker 1: stuff like you want. I did want to see a
Speaker 1: little bit more of this Batmobile because it looks so
Speaker 1: freaking cool and it was a new batmobile. But I
Speaker 1: thought that that chase sequence was pretty awesome when they're
Speaker 1: you know, when he's trying to get the kryptonite. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree, I think uh Snyder. Yeah, it's it's a
Speaker 1: fair criticism of of of Snyder in general is that
Speaker 1: the way he directed action can be a little muddled. Perhaps,
Speaker 1: I think he does a pretty good job here. Um
Speaker 1: and that that chase sequence, Yeah, that's definitely one of
Speaker 1: the high points action wise of the earl ish on
Speaker 1: in the movie. And also the fact that it kind
Speaker 1: of ends with Superman just basically being like, uh uh no,
Speaker 1: you can't go any further Batman or else, so I'm
Speaker 1: gonna come hurt you, which I really liked. Well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we should talk about Batman being immortal.
Speaker 1: H a mortal not immortal, Um, that that plays throughout
Speaker 1: Batman movies. Uh. He's a rich guy with a lot
Speaker 1: of gadgets who is has has worked out with weights
Speaker 1: a lot and trained to fight, but he is a dude. Um.
Speaker 1: And it really comes through in this movie, like the
Speaker 1: Stark difference a few times. Um. One is in the
Speaker 1: Batman Superman fight. You know, Superman was like, I could
Speaker 1: have killed you already, like you realize this. At any
Speaker 1: point he could just snap his neck with his fingertips,
Speaker 1: but he doesn't. And Batman is he's got all the tricks,
Speaker 1: but he's clearly outmatched all throughout this movie, especially there
Speaker 1: and then the final big, big battle. You can tell
Speaker 1: he's sort of like alright, like, uh, super beings, you know,
Speaker 1: wonder Woman, Superman, You're gonna need to handle most of
Speaker 1: this because I'm just trying to get the funk out
Speaker 1: of the way with all my winches and cables pulling
Speaker 1: me out of the way. There. Yeah, there's a there's
Speaker 1: a great moment when they're fighting dooms Day where Doomsday
Speaker 1: like uh charges up and is about to blast him
Speaker 1: with some energy blast and Superman and Wonder Woman both
Speaker 1: like just stand their ground and Batman just dives like
Speaker 1: under a piece of debris. Yeah. Yeah, I mean he's
Speaker 1: the guy that has to hide at certain points. Um.
Speaker 1: You know there's that when the Wonder Woman entrance is
Speaker 1: great because you know, the Batmobile is crashed and you
Speaker 1: see Doomsday coming and and he literally says, oh shit,
Speaker 1: he knows he's done for and that's where where Wonder
Speaker 1: Woman comes in, and you know, pretty powerful way to
Speaker 1: introduce her in a fight scene. And and the music
Speaker 1: her music's que that that that kind of metal guitar
Speaker 1: sounding which is kind of cheesy but works so well.
Speaker 1: I like it. I like it a lot. It's it's
Speaker 1: a really when I every time that sequence hits, I
Speaker 1: find it very affecting, just totally her entrance. I think
Speaker 1: it's a great way to introduce her into the movie
Speaker 1: and ultimately to the universe of of well of the
Speaker 1: DC universe. Yeah, when was the night teen eight four
Speaker 1: movies supposed to come out? The wonder the New Wonder
Speaker 1: Woman this summer July maybe, and I think it's I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's beneficially delayed yet or not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of wondering about that. I was really looking
Speaker 1: forward to that movie because that first Wonder Woman was
Speaker 1: just so good And I think gal Ga Dot is
Speaker 1: is it good Dot or goodot is? Yes? Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think she's terrific she. I think she just kind
Speaker 1: of owns that character. Um, we get the other subplot going,
Speaker 1: which is and it's all you know, all kind of
Speaker 1: tied together but lex using the guy who lost his
Speaker 1: legs the um, I guess he worked for Bruce Wayne,
Speaker 1: and Bruce Wayne had been sending him this money and
Speaker 1: he had been rejecting them, rejecting these checks, and he
Speaker 1: manipulates him into sacrificing himself. And there's that great moment
Speaker 1: when Amy Adams sees that fridge full of food and
Speaker 1: she's like, he didn't know, you know, he didn't know
Speaker 1: that he was being used. Basically, yeah, he's I think
Speaker 1: Scoot McNary is the actor who plays him that guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's a really great use of the character. And
Speaker 1: again earlier how he talked about sort of the people,
Speaker 1: you know, people of color being manipulated against Superman and Batman. Also,
Speaker 1: you could kind of put his character in there. Who's
Speaker 1: you know, who's who's somebody with a physical disability, Who's
Speaker 1: who's also sort of economically depressed. He know, he loses
Speaker 1: his legs, he loses his job, he loses his family.
Speaker 1: He has a lot of anger here, and so that
Speaker 1: anger is exploited by this rich, rich billionaire. Again, it's
Speaker 1: really it's really fascinating. I think, yeah, and you know
Speaker 1: he uh, and the whole time you know, the one
Speaker 1: thing I do like about Lex in this movie is
Speaker 1: that in true like Lex Luthor was always um rich
Speaker 1: and super smart, like that was his superpower, was that
Speaker 1: he was always one step of ahead of everyone with
Speaker 1: his diabolical schemes, and that still plays out here and
Speaker 1: that he is he's always playing one side against the
Speaker 1: other and manipulation at every single turn, whether it's the
Speaker 1: media or or Scoot mcnary's character or Batman. Um, it's
Speaker 1: really like true to to who Lex Luthor as a
Speaker 1: character has always been one small detail I like that
Speaker 1: kind of goes into that is how um he knows
Speaker 1: the identities of both Superman and Batman, for it seems
Speaker 1: like most of the movie, and yet we never we
Speaker 1: never get a scene where he figures out who they
Speaker 1: really are. It's just kind of assumed. It's assumed rightly.
Speaker 1: I think that somebody with his wealth and resources would
Speaker 1: have no trouble figuring out who these guys really are.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're like the guy who started Face, look,
Speaker 1: you can probably figure out anybody's identity, you know. Well yeah,
Speaker 1: and of course you know the funny age old criticism
Speaker 1: of Superman is, you know Clark Kent puts us glasses on,
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's like, who is that guy? And comes
Speaker 1: his gelss hair and then he's suddenly yeah, who was
Speaker 1: that superbuff reporter cub reporter. Um, yeah, I think Amy
Speaker 1: Adams this is some of the best lowest lane stuff
Speaker 1: that I've seen in any of the Superman movies. She
Speaker 1: really is just a likable actor and I think, um,
Speaker 1: the most empowered lowest of all the movies, which is
Speaker 1: an important trade. I think here, Yeah, she's she's great
Speaker 1: in this and I think, you know, she's she really
Speaker 1: grounds this movie. And she's kind of the only main
Speaker 1: character who's who's more or less a regular person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody else are these larger than life mythic
Speaker 1: gods or super wealthy people. But she's kind of the
Speaker 1: our entry into seeing this world from quote unquote the
Speaker 1: average person's perspective. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And she also
Speaker 1: recognizes at some point, um, she figures out that she
Speaker 1: is kind of part of the problem in that she's
Speaker 1: in love with Clark and Superman, and that is very
Speaker 1: much a um a week point for Superman because and
Speaker 1: it's happened in a bunch of the movies. If you
Speaker 1: want to distract soups. Just put Lois in danger and
Speaker 1: he'll go leave whatever the funk he's doing to go help. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean that's the whole Africa sequence at the beginning
Speaker 1: is orchestrated because Lex knows that Superman will be there
Speaker 1: if if Lois is in danger, you know. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: I think that's also when we get to sort of
Speaker 1: the climax of and I'm jumping ahead a little bit here,
Speaker 1: but of Superman taking on Doomsday and and deficing himself.
Speaker 1: You know, so much of this movie is about Superman
Speaker 1: kind of losing his faith in humanity and humanity losing
Speaker 1: their faith in somebody like Superman. And right before he
Speaker 1: goes to fight Doomsday, there's a small moment with with
Speaker 1: Lois where she kind of knows this is this might
Speaker 1: be it. They both know this might be it, and um,
Speaker 1: he says, uh, this is my world. You are my world,
Speaker 1: and he kind of it's in that moment I think
Speaker 1: he kind of accepts his role of what he needs
Speaker 1: to be for humanity, which is unfortunately kind of it's
Speaker 1: a hero but also it's like a sacrifice, right, But
Speaker 1: he gives himself freely because he loves Lois and through
Speaker 1: Lowest it's like loving the world. It's kind of it's
Speaker 1: almost like in the Matrix how in the sequels, where
Speaker 1: it's like Neo choosing between loving one person Trinity or
Speaker 1: loving humanity, and how they kind of are the same thing, right,
Speaker 1: but also oftentimes in conflict. Um, you know, he's he's
Speaker 1: And this wasn't just in this movie, Like I was saying,
Speaker 1: in most of the Superman movies he is faced with
Speaker 1: the choice of save Lois or save a larger population
Speaker 1: of people. Or the Spider Man movies too with kind
Speaker 1: of do the same thing with Mary Jane or Gwen Stacy.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like how do you how do you
Speaker 1: have how do you be the hero but also have
Speaker 1: uh ties to close ties to people you care about
Speaker 1: when those could be exploited. Yeah, I mean that's sort
Speaker 1: of the classic superhero conundrum. Um, I guess we don't
Speaker 1: really get that. Batman is a little bit different. Uh
Speaker 1: we never really see Batman have a love interest in
Speaker 1: that way, do we Definitely not in this movie. Um,
Speaker 1: I guess in the Dark Night, you know, uh, Maggie Jillenhall, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true. Actually I forgot about that. She is. I
Speaker 1: think it's the same situation where she's being held hostage
Speaker 1: and he's got to choose between saving her or saving
Speaker 1: some people, and she ultimately dies. I think, yeah, she
Speaker 1: dies in that, but at least in far in terms
Speaker 1: of this movie, No, he kind of doesn't really have
Speaker 1: any ties to to anybody. Yeah, and that's sort of
Speaker 1: one of the things with Batman is that he is
Speaker 1: he is the dark Knight. He is uh. I don't
Speaker 1: know about if selfish is the right word, but he's
Speaker 1: not Superman. You never get the idea with Batman, or
Speaker 1: at least I don't that he's um fighting crime for
Speaker 1: the good of Gotham. It always feels like he's fighting
Speaker 1: crime because of this darkness and revenge that exists within him.
Speaker 1: And a side effect is that he's helping to clean
Speaker 1: up Gotham. Yeah. Absolutely, and that's that's again what makes
Speaker 1: him such a it's such a it's kind of weird
Speaker 1: about it's kind of weird how popular he is in
Speaker 1: terms of superheroes when he has this. I guess maybe
Speaker 1: it just shows that we kind of like our heroes
Speaker 1: to be anti heroes a little bit. Um. But in
Speaker 1: this movie, it goes like it does that to like
Speaker 1: the nth degree. Um. So, there's a line he says
Speaker 1: to Alfred in this movie, and I have it written
Speaker 1: down here. He says, if we believe there's even a
Speaker 1: one percent chance that he is our enemy, we have
Speaker 1: to take it as an absolute certainty. Yeah, he says
Speaker 1: that to to Alfred. And I've got another quote here
Speaker 1: from somebody in the real world that I'm going to read.
Speaker 1: Do you know what this quote is going to be? Um? No,
Speaker 1: but I feel like I should know. Okay, Well, all right,
Speaker 1: So this is a real world quote quote. If there's
Speaker 1: a one percent chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al
Speaker 1: Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to
Speaker 1: treat it, treat it as a certainty in terms of
Speaker 1: our response. And that is Dick Cheney. So Batman literally
Speaker 1: quotes Dick Cheney in his reasoning for hunting down Superman. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's a nice find. I'm sure that was no accident.
Speaker 1: No accident, no accident. Yeah. Interesting, I never I never
Speaker 1: picked up on that. So towards the end, you know,
Speaker 1: you get this great, uh, great sequence where Lois has
Speaker 1: taken and Mama Kent is taken, Martha Kent and this
Speaker 1: is you know, uh, this is all the set up
Speaker 1: for Batman to fight Superman. You've got Batman forging these
Speaker 1: crypto cryptanotic weapons. Is that a word? It is? Now? Uh?
Speaker 1: And you know there's always and all the Superman movies,
Speaker 1: there's always this great moment I feel like where he's
Speaker 1: about to be able to do away with a bad
Speaker 1: guy and they're like, but wait, um, we have your
Speaker 1: mom or if you do that, then this will happen.
Speaker 1: You can't kill me is I'm the only one that
Speaker 1: knows x uh. And I think they play that really
Speaker 1: well in this movie after they had kidnapped Martha. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's kind of begs the question of
Speaker 1: how do you what what what weakness does somebody with
Speaker 1: godlike powers have? Like you can't take him down with
Speaker 1: brute force, how else do you get to him? And
Speaker 1: it's ultimately it's which makes makes it really interesting. His
Speaker 1: his his love for his mother, which his kind of
Speaker 1: his ties to basic humanity are his weakness. Yeah, which
Speaker 1: is interesting because Superman is an alien, you know, lest
Speaker 1: we forget, and that's sort of always been the the
Speaker 1: conundrum of Superman is he is this alien who has
Speaker 1: come to Earth and experienced human love and emotion. You know,
Speaker 1: one thing I have written down in my notes next
Speaker 1: to Superman being an alien is in parentheses, I wrote,
Speaker 1: A K A is an immigrant. Oh, and I just
Speaker 1: want to I want to throw that out there as
Speaker 1: Superman being the ultimate immigrant story, which, thus you could say,
Speaker 1: reveals Batman to be maybe something of a bigot, a
Speaker 1: fearful bigot, fearing what he doesn't understand. I think this
Speaker 1: is intentional because you know, when he that sequence at
Speaker 1: the Capitol when the build Luther blows the building up,
Speaker 1: when Superman first arrives there, we see these protesters outside
Speaker 1: and they've got the signs that say like Superman equals
Speaker 1: alien and go back to your planet blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: I mean that's that could be a scene from real life,
Speaker 1: you know, totally Yeah. And you see you kind of
Speaker 1: both sides there too, and those scenes with the mob
Speaker 1: crowds that there are the Superman fanatics standing, you know,
Speaker 1: side by side with the people that are against Superman. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I think that is I think they do a
Speaker 1: good job in presenting It's not very black and white. Um. Eventually,
Speaker 1: the media, and I think especially after the bombing of
Speaker 1: the Senate hearing or whatever. That's when I think the
Speaker 1: public perception really takes a turn. But they play it
Speaker 1: realistically up until that point of he's still going to
Speaker 1: have his die hard UH fanatics, but he's also gonna
Speaker 1: and again it's like how that mirrors real life and
Speaker 1: what goes on. UM not to name Chicken e like
Speaker 1: current politicians, but uh, there are certain politicians out there
Speaker 1: today that there's literally nothing they could do that would
Speaker 1: sway their base to think otherwise. I mean, it's true,
Speaker 1: and it's interesting that we're we're talking about we're kind
Speaker 1: of making a comparison between that and Superman in this movie.
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily a one to one comparison, but I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, these questions are these these parallels are intentionally
Speaker 1: presented in the film, I think, Um, and you know
Speaker 1: that's scene at the Capital. For me, I think that's
Speaker 1: see occurs roughly halfway into the movie, like about an
Speaker 1: hour and a half through, and to me, like, I
Speaker 1: think that's a really great sequence, and to me, the
Speaker 1: whole movie up until that point is building to that sequence,
Speaker 1: and that scene is kind of like all these plot
Speaker 1: narrative threads converging at this capital Senate hearing or whatever
Speaker 1: where it's will Superman show up? How do we address
Speaker 1: somebody who has god like powers in the world? Should
Speaker 1: this person have uh checks on his power? And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we haven't really talked about Holly Hunter's character
Speaker 1: too much yet. Yea and always and and she yeah, agree,
Speaker 1: And I think she kind of represents the failures of
Speaker 1: government to not not that she herself as a failure,
Speaker 1: but the fact that government and democracy can't really doesn't
Speaker 1: really have a solution to God's walking among us. You know,
Speaker 1: there's just no way they can deal with it, even
Speaker 1: though they try and give lip service to dead you
Speaker 1: have talking to people and hearing ideas, right, Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: And um, you know that's a very I love the
Speaker 1: way they played the scene out with Lex planting that,
Speaker 1: you know, Granny's peach t or whatever, which was I
Speaker 1: guess his piss, right, I think, so, yeah, there's only
Speaker 1: one way to read that. And uh yeah, that moment
Speaker 1: was really really pretty great because I hadn't and in fact,
Speaker 1: I had forgotten about a lot of this movie, but
Speaker 1: I did not put that all together that he was
Speaker 1: actually using Scoot mcnary's character with that uh Kryptonite slash
Speaker 1: bomb wheelchair. Yeah, and there's a really great moment there
Speaker 1: where the building starts to explode and the room like
Speaker 1: becomes a fireball, and yet Superman is kind of at
Speaker 1: the center of the frame because he's obviously not hurt
Speaker 1: by it, and you can see he I think he
Speaker 1: just sort of closes his eyes and he he just
Speaker 1: has this look of pain, like, oh my gosh, I
Speaker 1: might you know, all these people around me are dying
Speaker 1: and I'm fine, but also I might be responsible for this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like I I walked into a trap that I should
Speaker 1: have seen. And he has that great line with Lois
Speaker 1: where he says, maybe I didn't I wasn't looking forward
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah. Yeah, that's seen on the balcony right
Speaker 1: afterwards with Lois at her hotel, and there's a really
Speaker 1: nice exchange there too, where she says, you know, he
Speaker 1: talks about how Superman was just a farmer's dream, and
Speaker 1: she says that dream is all some people have. It
Speaker 1: gives them hope. And then she like touches the the
Speaker 1: insignia on his chest the s and she says this
Speaker 1: means something, and he says it did on my world,
Speaker 1: but my world doesn't exist anymore, and it's just like
Speaker 1: the lowest of the low point. That's where he kind
Speaker 1: of leaves and goes on his vision quest to you know,
Speaker 1: the Himalayas or whatever. But he kind of decides to
Speaker 1: abandon humanity, you know. Yeah, and I think that stuff works. Um.
Speaker 1: I like him. I think he's been a good Superman. Um.
Speaker 1: I didn't know a lot about him as an actor
Speaker 1: before this, but I think he's been a good soups
Speaker 1: better than the previous guy that did just the one film,
Speaker 1: Brandon Ralph. I think, I think Caville has been really
Speaker 1: pretty solid. Uh, he's got the look, he's he's great
Speaker 1: as Clark. I think he pulls it off as an actor.
Speaker 1: So he's he's he's one of my favorite Superman. Agreed, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he's really good. Um. And you know, like
Speaker 1: I said, how did you feel about about Affleck? How
Speaker 1: do I guess I'd sort of dodged that earlier. He
Speaker 1: wasn't bad. I think it was just, um, there's so
Speaker 1: much baggage with Ben Affleck as a human that it
Speaker 1: was hard for me to sort of unwind all that
Speaker 1: and accept him. But you know, seeing this today, he
Speaker 1: wasn't bad. He wasn't I thought. I think he's okay.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to see them moving on. I think it's
Speaker 1: interesting that he did not get his own because it
Speaker 1: was just this Injustice League, right, He's Uh, those are
Speaker 1: the only two appearances, so there was no standalone Batman film. Uh,
Speaker 1: unless you count this, which I don't really account. This
Speaker 1: is a Batman movie. But he was he was okay.
Speaker 1: I'll cop out and just say he was fine. I mean,
Speaker 1: I much preferred Christian Bale. I'm excited about what Pattinson
Speaker 1: is going to bring because I think he's a hell
Speaker 1: of an actor and I'm really interested. He seems a
Speaker 1: little small, but I'm interesting to see how they bulk
Speaker 1: him up for this thing. Yeah, I'm I'm really excited,
Speaker 1: cautiously excited for for pat I mean for the movie,
Speaker 1: but really excited for for Pattinson because he's I mean,
Speaker 1: we know he's a great actor. He always does interesting work. Yeah, totally,
Speaker 1: and if nothing else, at least the paycheck he gets
Speaker 1: from Batman will allow him to be in more like
Speaker 1: Safty Brothers. Yeah, exactly more. Who is making that one?
Speaker 1: I know, I know this, it's uh Matt Reeves, Oh right, right, right, sure,
Speaker 1: we do the job. Who what else did he do
Speaker 1: he did? Uh? Oh? Do think he planeted the Apes,
Speaker 1: Dawn at the Plant, the Apes, and clover Field. Clover
Speaker 1: Field was his first movie, I think, yeah, that's where
Speaker 1: he got to start and War for the so two
Speaker 1: Planet of the Apes movies, let the let Me both good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like those a lot. Yeah. Uh, and I think
Speaker 1: Let Me In was a pretty good adaptation of a
Speaker 1: very very good foreign film. I would agree with that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Hard hard to adapt a movie that's uh, that's pretty
Speaker 1: great in my opinion. But they did a solid job. No,
Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, that'll be good. When is that supposed
Speaker 1: to come out? Well, I think I can look it
Speaker 1: up real quick. Um, I know it's been filming has
Speaker 1: been put on hold because of coronavirus. October one is
Speaker 1: the current date. Oh interesting, So it's gonna be a while. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so a year and a half from an hour or so,
Speaker 1: And that's if it all goes as planned. It's not.
Speaker 1: But man, the cast though, is stack You got Paul
Speaker 1: dan Out, Colin Farrell, Dano's Riddler, right, Yes, that's yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean those are those are quality actors, so they're
Speaker 1: all to a good start. And Colin Farrell is the penguin.
Speaker 1: I forgot about that. Oh interesting, Yeah, I would think
Speaker 1: I I wouldn't have minded seeing a stand alone Batman
Speaker 1: with Benefleck, just because I don't think it's really fair
Speaker 1: to not give him one and and rate him against
Speaker 1: other Batman Man because he didn't get his He didn't
Speaker 1: get that full sort of shining moment. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: if this is his soul outing, well not a soul
Speaker 1: outing because of Justice League, but it's certainly not h yeah,
Speaker 1: shining example of Batman in terms of how his characters depicted.
Speaker 1: But I think that's why I like him, because I
Speaker 1: think he sells the the anger, the angry Batman really well.
Speaker 1: And also because he's angry but he's also a billionaire,
Speaker 1: which for some reason, I feel like maybe this is
Speaker 1: me reading into Ben Affleck as a person, but I
Speaker 1: feel like I can buy that like a rich person
Speaker 1: who's also angry. Well, and the drinking and stuff. I mean,
Speaker 1: there there are some parallels with his life, uh in
Speaker 1: real life in this role that he's taken on um
Speaker 1: with a you know, potentially alcoholism as Bruce Wayne because
Speaker 1: Jeremy Irons, who was great as Alfred by the way,
Speaker 1: I would think he was a great choice. Um, not
Speaker 1: quite Michael Caine, but a good you know yeah, no, no,
Speaker 1: no shame and Jeremy Irons at all. Uh, And he
Speaker 1: does a good job as Alfred in this and that
Speaker 1: he's always uh part of Alfred is always been to
Speaker 1: be his caretaker and uh he makes a lot out
Speaker 1: of a little I think in this movie in that way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's also kind of Batman's conscience. He's kind of
Speaker 1: is he's a father figure, and he's part of the
Speaker 1: better angels who are in this movie constantly trying to
Speaker 1: hold you know, push him back from the from the ledge,
Speaker 1: so to speak, which he he does really well. But
Speaker 1: it's also interesting, how you know, we talked about Batman's
Speaker 1: alcoholism in this movie. There are quite a few scenes
Speaker 1: at least a couple where you see Alfred like out
Speaker 1: at the control center but also nursing a Scotch And
Speaker 1: you know, it's never really there's not never really much
Speaker 1: read into it, but I think you might be able
Speaker 1: to assume that Alfred has had his fair share of
Speaker 1: days where he's got to have a drink after learning
Speaker 1: what what Bruce did that day or something? For sure? Uh,
Speaker 1: what else you got, dude? What's in your little note stash? Um?
Speaker 1: I mean I exhausted. We covered a lot of it,
Speaker 1: I think, Oh, here's here's one. Um, there are a
Speaker 1: few kind of dream sequences in this. There's one extended
Speaker 1: one which has been I guess dubbed the Nightmare Night
Speaker 1: with a K, where it's Batman in this desert world
Speaker 1: and um, it's really like this like Mad Max post
Speaker 1: apocalyptic world where he's obviously it's a dream sequence, but
Speaker 1: he sees he's trying to do some mission and he
Speaker 1: gets betrayed by all these these guards dressed with Superman
Speaker 1: insignia's on their arms. Yeah, those and those waspy flying
Speaker 1: creatures and those, and it's it's actually kind of terrifying
Speaker 1: as a sequence because you see how how fearful he
Speaker 1: is of of Superman and the fact that these these
Speaker 1: soldiers are kind of dressed almost like these not Nazi
Speaker 1: esque uniforms, like these s S uniforms are something. And
Speaker 1: then Superman shows up, and especially when these like alien
Speaker 1: bugs show up. And maybe I'm reading too much into this,
Speaker 1: but the way again if we see Superman as an
Speaker 1: alien slash immigrant, the way US immigrants have been portrayed
Speaker 1: as less than human in the past and present, especially
Speaker 1: with words used like infestation to describe immigrants, and here
Speaker 1: we literally see like alien bug creatures. Again, I'm reading
Speaker 1: a lot into this, but I think it it's a
Speaker 1: fair interpretation. No, I think so too. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you're gonna, if you're gonna go there like you have,
Speaker 1: you gotta go all the way with the political uh intrigue. Um.
Speaker 1: The other interesting thing is you see Superman really angry
Speaker 1: a few times in this movie, which is a bit
Speaker 1: of a change of pace. Soups is generally pretty pretty level,
Speaker 1: and you see some real rage come out a couple
Speaker 1: of times, and I think it really works for this film. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would agree. And again it's it's probably one of
Speaker 1: those reasons why people didn't necessarily respond to this movie
Speaker 1: very strongly. But we don't like to see our heroes
Speaker 1: falter right or lose lose their their mojo. They're they're
Speaker 1: will to do what they do. And I think, to me,
Speaker 1: that's why this movie, why I find this movie so interesting,
Speaker 1: is because it seems to reckon with the idea of
Speaker 1: superheroes in a world that looks like our real world,
Speaker 1: you know, and the answers aren't satisfying. The answers are
Speaker 1: kind of depressing, Like this is a very despondent, depressing movie,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. I mean that's been one of the
Speaker 1: knocks on Snyder's world in the DC world, as literal darkness, uh,
Speaker 1: and the way he shoots things and figurative darkness. Whereas
Speaker 1: Marvel movies are color and light uh, a lot of
Speaker 1: daytime stuff. Snyder has got a lot of nighttime, rainy
Speaker 1: night stuff, and all his movies that sort of gray
Speaker 1: um gray look on the color wheel. But you know,
Speaker 1: the guy has a an aesthetic and he has stuck
Speaker 1: to it, man, And that's that's why I gotta respect
Speaker 1: it too, because again, like I said at the top,
Speaker 1: like this feels like his movie, Like this feels like
Speaker 1: the movie he wanted to make. Whether or not you
Speaker 1: like it or not, that's that's, you know, another question.
Speaker 1: But it didn't feel like somebody was like a corporate
Speaker 1: boardroom for the most part, was mandating it has to
Speaker 1: look like this. You have to outsource your action sequences
Speaker 1: to this committee. You know. Yeah, yeah, No, totally. It's
Speaker 1: it's his movie and he's not. I mean, this isn't
Speaker 1: light fair, He's he's he is going for something pretty
Speaker 1: weighty for a superhero movie, the themes and the tones um.
Speaker 1: And I think Marvel does that pretty successfully as well.
Speaker 1: Despite the the brighter overall feel a lot more laughs
Speaker 1: in in Marvel movies, um, like infinitely more laughs. It
Speaker 1: is funny when this movie like three times maybe tries
Speaker 1: to give you a few like Marvel esques jokes very
Speaker 1: few times, very few times. But yeah, I kind of
Speaker 1: just like shake my head. I'm like, they're trying, but
Speaker 1: you know, I appreciate the effort, but this is not
Speaker 1: your strong suit. Yeah, and you know, I ultimately obviously
Speaker 1: love the Marvel films a lot more, but um, I
Speaker 1: credit them for not just trying to ape what Marvel
Speaker 1: has done and for having their own vision and just
Speaker 1: being like, you know what, We're not going to try
Speaker 1: and do what they're doing. We're gonna do our own thing. Uh.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lot darker, um and a lot heavier.
Speaker 1: And if people like it, they like it, and if
Speaker 1: they don't, they don't. Yeah, And so I can you know,
Speaker 1: I'm sure when people listen to this episode, there's gonna
Speaker 1: be a lot of debate if we're whether or not
Speaker 1: we're off a rocker some people, a lot of people
Speaker 1: hated this movie, and you know that's fair. But I
Speaker 1: feel like, whether or not, even if you hate this movie,
Speaker 1: I think you you at least got a respect that
Speaker 1: they did something different and went with a vision. However
Speaker 1: flawed that vision might have been. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, I'm
Speaker 1: curious what what's going on in the DC world next.
Speaker 1: I haven't really followed. I did see the Aquaman movie,
Speaker 1: which was okay, not terrible. I saw it, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: saw it on a plane, kind of felt the same way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was fine, it was all right. He was a
Speaker 1: little too surf bro for me. Yeah, yeah, I agreed,
Speaker 1: but but it wasn't bad. Um, do you know what's
Speaker 1: in store? I mean, obviously the Wonder Woman stuff is
Speaker 1: is the best of DC. Yeah, Wonder Woman would be next. Uh,
Speaker 1: and then I guess the patents in Batman. Oh right, yeah,
Speaker 1: that counts. Um. I don't know if they're or any
Speaker 1: other sequels on the way. I'd have to like a
Speaker 1: Justice League sequel or if um. If I don't know
Speaker 1: what Snyder's deal is either if he's if he's now
Speaker 1: he might be done leaving it. Has he done? I
Speaker 1: think maybe so, But you know it's I think part
Speaker 1: of that too is they maybe they were planning for
Speaker 1: way more, way more of an expanded universe, but some
Speaker 1: of these movies didn't perform that well at the box office,
Speaker 1: so I think they might have canned some of them. Um,
Speaker 1: it's funny. I have the I have this movie on
Speaker 1: blue ray, actually the Ultimate edition, and the cover the
Speaker 1: box cover is Batman and Superman and then in the
Speaker 1: middle is wonder Woman. She's like given prominent bill, the
Speaker 1: top billing in terms of the picture, even though she's
Speaker 1: in this movie for like twenty minutes. Yeah, well that's
Speaker 1: because Galgadat is gorgeous and put her on a movie
Speaker 1: poster and that doesn't hurt. And the fact that Wonder
Speaker 1: Woman is one of their six it did so well
Speaker 1: some one of their success stories. You know. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: had to buy this too because the Ultimate Edition was
Speaker 1: not rentable on iTunes, so I now own this thanks
Speaker 1: to you man. That warms my heart. I appreciate that
Speaker 1: they pay ten bucks, that's fine. I do recommend that
Speaker 1: people watch the Ultimate edition, it was definitely a richer
Speaker 1: film than the two and a hour two and a
Speaker 1: half hour version. Is sometimes when you see the big
Speaker 1: three hour director's cut, it feels bloated. And while it
Speaker 1: was certainly long, it made more sense for this movie
Speaker 1: to be three hours long than two and a half. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I will say that. And uh, just kind of one
Speaker 1: of the final thoughts I had on this movie looking
Speaker 1: at my notes here is um the the ending right
Speaker 1: after Superman sacrifices himself and we see that the funerals
Speaker 1: to funerals that are cross cut with each other, and
Speaker 1: at the funeral in Kansas, Galga Dot has this really
Speaker 1: kind of haunting line where they where she says they
Speaker 1: don't know how to honor him except as a soldier. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's it's a great line. It's kind of ambiguous.
Speaker 1: I guess what it's it's getting at is like that
Speaker 1: we only embrace Superman now that he's dead and has
Speaker 1: saved everyone. He's given himself freely to us. Uh, And
Speaker 1: maybe the idea that we only can especially America, can
Speaker 1: only think of bravery and heroism in terms of like
Speaker 1: war and combat, and that's what we hold up is
Speaker 1: like the highest ideal of of goodness is the ability
Speaker 1: to fight, which is kind of a sad, sad truth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the ability to fight. And um and you know, there
Speaker 1: there's a a large part of this country that, uh,
Speaker 1: sacrificing your life for the freedom of others is the
Speaker 1: ultimate martyrdom mm hmm. And and of course I'm not
Speaker 1: knocking the idea of that at all, but I think
Speaker 1: in terms of like our our culture, this idea of
Speaker 1: that the only show of strength. There's stud fighting and violence.
Speaker 1: I guess this sort of classically traditional masculine ideal, which
Speaker 1: I think the movie acknowledges, is being kind of messed up,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. I mean there is no superhero called
Speaker 1: the Mediator, you know, not yet. I think we just
Speaker 1: a birthnight. What do they do? They just talk things
Speaker 1: out in a reasonable manner, but they wear a cape
Speaker 1: while they do it. Yeah, I like that. I like
Speaker 1: that a lot. Alright, dude, Well, I enjoyed this conversation.
Speaker 1: It's good seeing you, Yeah, YouTube man, and thanks for
Speaker 1: like I said, thanks for indulging me on this. I'm
Speaker 1: glad you. Uh you found some good stuff in it too, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I did. I liked it much more this time around. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think, like I said at the top, it's
Speaker 1: just such an interesting movie to dig into, even if
Speaker 1: you don't like it. It's just playing with so many
Speaker 1: themes here. Like, let me put it this way, like
Speaker 1: if I was still in college, this would be a
Speaker 1: movie I could write like a ten page essay on
Speaker 1: for one of my film studies classes, you know, just
Speaker 1: because it's so dense with with interpretation. Yeah, the old
Speaker 1: film studies paper. I don't miss what is Casey as
Speaker 1: Casey seen this. No, I've told him about it, though
Speaker 1: he does want to watch it at some point, just
Speaker 1: because I've told him about how it's It's much more
Speaker 1: interesting than you might expect going in He's take, he'll
Speaker 1: watch it at some point. I think, well, all right, brother,
Speaker 1: we will get a round table going soon, and then
Speaker 1: we want to talk about um last Jedi. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: been hounding you about that. Yeah, and I think I
Speaker 1: promised that to other people as well. So maybe we'll
Speaker 1: get like you and Holly and maybe one other uh,
Speaker 1: maybe Annie or somebody, and we'll see if we can
Speaker 1: get a little skype zoom or something with all of
Speaker 1: us in the virtual room together that sounds fun. Man,
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to it, all right. Will you take
Speaker 1: care of yourself? And thanks to everyone for listening. Check
Speaker 1: out the Ultimate edition of Batman Versus Superman Colin Dawn
Speaker 1: of Justice Colin Ultimate Edition three hours. But what else
Speaker 1: you got to do? Right? All right? Thanks everybody. We'll
Speaker 1: talk to you next week. For more podcasts for my
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows