1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: On this episode of the News World. Secretary of Mike 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: Pompeo is the only person ever to have served as 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: both America's most senior diplomat and the head of its 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: premier espionage agency. As the only four year national security 5 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: member of President Trump's cabinet, he worked to impose crushing 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: pressure on the Islamic Republic of Iran, avert a nuclear 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: crisis with North Korea, deliver unmatched support for Israel, and 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: bring peace to the Middle East. Drawing on his commitment 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: to America's founding principles and his Christian faith, his efforts 10 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: to promote religious freedom around the world were unequaled in 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: American diplomatic history. Most importantly, he let him much needed 12 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: generational transformation of America's relationship with China. His new book, 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: Never Give an Inch Fighting for the America I Love, 14 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: is a raw account of what it took to deliver 15 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: an America first approach when he outcomes in the face 16 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: of a progressive activist media, partisan conspiracies, two impeachments, endless investigations, 17 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: and the COVID nineteen pandemic. So I'm really pleased to 18 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: welcome my guest, my good friend, Secretary Mike Pompeo. He 19 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: served as the seventieth Secretary of State United States of 20 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: America and is the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. 21 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: And as a former Speaker of the House, I have 22 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: to also point out he was a member of the 23 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: Congress and has had a remarkable career. Mike, welcome and 24 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: thank you for joining me on the the News World. And 25 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: only say as a personal note that while Callisto was 26 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: the Ambassador to the Vatican, she had a number of 27 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: occasions to support Secretary Pompeo, and he did a remarkable 28 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: job representing American values in American interests, and it was 29 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: a great privilege for us to be able to work 30 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: with him. Master Speaker, it's great to be with you, 31 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: and it was lovely to work alongside your wife and 32 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: our ambassador. We did good work together. Well. I thought 33 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: we would start going all the way back to your education, 34 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: because you really had a pretty remarkable education experience starting 35 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: a West Point. Can you chat us a little bit 36 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: about your experiences in the Army and at West Points. 37 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: An amazing opportunity to change my life. Nut when I 38 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: got that letter back that said you've been admitted to 39 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: West Point, and then ultimately had someone you'd know. Bob 40 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: Dornan was the congressman who nominated me to West Point. 41 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: I'd never met Bob. When I got that opportunity to 42 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: change my life, I got to go to this place 43 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: where I learned about hard work and how to build teams, 44 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: and concepts of leadership and military history in ways there's 45 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: no other institution could have provided for me. And I 46 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: did my best to soak it all in, and it's 47 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: set the course for what's now been a life that 48 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: America has given me an incredible set of opportunities, and 49 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: my responsibility and give back a bit remains well. I 50 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: noticed when you were secretary you had several friends who 51 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: I think went all the way back to West Point 52 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: with you. I did, just like we all do. We 53 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: drag our good friends around. I started a business in Wichita, 54 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: Kansas with three of my best buddies from West Point, 55 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: all members of the class of eighty six. And then 56 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: when I had the chance to be the side director, 57 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: I had Brian Bulto and Ulrich Recviel came with me 58 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: the State Department. These are the people knew you trust, 59 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: You know, you've known them for decades. They were, in fact, 60 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: if something had happened to Susan and me, they would 61 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: have taken care of Nick. These are my closest friends. 62 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: They are amazing leaders and great patriots as well, and 63 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: so it's always good to have a handful of folks 64 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 1: with you when you're running an institution that doesn't think 65 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: you have it all right. I think Lester would agree 66 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: the State Department was not a group an organization that 67 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: thought we had it right most days. In addition to 68 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: West Point, you also did a remarkable job as a 69 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: student at Harvard Law School. I remember talking to Maryann Glendon, 70 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: who had been the mists of Attican, who was a 71 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: very senior professor at Harvard, and she said to me 72 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: one time, you know, I taught both Mike Pompeo and 73 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: Barack Obama, and I can tell you a pump was 74 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: much smarter. I hadn't heard her say that before. But 75 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: she's hopelessly biased because she and I her dear friends. 76 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: I did research for her news. She was writing books, 77 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: and I needed eight dollars an hour, and so it 78 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: was a perfect capitalist marriage between the two of us 79 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: when I was a young student at Harvard. She has 80 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: been a mentor to me for all these years. Well, 81 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: she's one of the brightest people I've ever met. So 82 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: you were being taught by somebody with remarkable capabilities. Now, 83 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: when you were shooting at Harvard, there were hearings about 84 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas's nomination to Supreme Court. I went on almost 85 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: an entire semester. There's an interesting story that you tell 86 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: about your reaction. Who left a student darning and Anita 87 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: is right T shirt. Oh my goodness, it was amazing 88 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: because you can imagine at Harvard Law School, the Anita 89 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: Hill hearings are going on, to Thomas hearings are going on, 90 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: and Anita Hill is testifying about all kinds of stuff, 91 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: and you know it's nine to one, ten to one, 92 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: fifteen to one in support of Anita and against Justice Thomas. 93 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: And I remember that T shirt. I remember the moment 94 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: I write this in the book, In the very opening 95 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: of the book, I write about Justice Thomas saying he 96 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: will never run away from a bully, and it's stuck 97 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: with me. The determination in the face of whatever the 98 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: attacks may be, attacks on your ideas, attack on your person. 99 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: You live this as speaker. When you believe you're right 100 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: and you have it in your heart and you are 101 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: convinced of the project that you're working on, don't let 102 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,239 Speaker 1: anyone walk you away from it. Ever, the book title 103 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: kind of fits that too, Never give an inch. It's 104 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: this central idea that no matter what these young kids 105 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: at Harvard Law School may be saying, no matter what 106 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: they're thinking about you, Justice Thomas was tough and capable 107 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: and honest and spoke from the heart, and we have 108 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: now benefited from him and his sacrifice for the country 109 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: for decades. Morlans, it really struck me watching you up close, 110 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: close to a serving was that you could be very tough, 111 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: but in a very pleasant way, if you didn't confuse 112 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 1: toughness with hostility or harshness, and yet you were extraordinarily firm. 113 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: I think that's a great compliment to you. That's very kind. 114 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: I've watched you, I've watched others do this. Win the argument, 115 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 1: bring joy, smile, you're right when the argument, there's no 116 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: need to mock, there's no need to rant. By the way, 117 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: I can see, there's a couple of YouTube videos out 118 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: there where my mother wouldn't have been proud. But make 119 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: no mistake about it, we tried to do this because 120 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: these are long term relationships that you're trying to build, 121 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: and being persuasive is proof that you have the argument 122 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: right if you have to scream or use that hominem 123 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: attacks or I think it's demonstrating actual weakness. And so 124 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: I tried to do it, whether it was building our 125 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: own team inside the State Department or the CIA, or 126 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: working with our partners around the world, or frankly, working 127 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: with the other agencies inside the government. I never must 128 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: stook being kind and reasoned with being weak. But when 129 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: I first knew you, you were a congressman, and I 130 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: don't think you had any notion of that moment that 131 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: you were not going to continue to be a congressman. 132 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: Can you talk briefly about what happened on November thirteenth, 133 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: On that's Sunday when you got a call. I had 134 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: just been re elected to what would have been my 135 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: fourth term as the Congressman from the fourth District of Kansas, 136 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: south central Kansas. I was getting ready to go to 137 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: work the next day, Monday, we were finishing out the 138 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: previous term in congress precession, and I got a call 139 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: from Mike Pence, then Vice President elect, who had been 140 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: elected on the Tuesday before, and I hadn't seen Mike 141 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: in a while. His last term in Congress was my 142 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: first term. I was lucky, like physical closeness matters. His 143 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: office was across the hall from mine. That's how I 144 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: got to know him. We would walk to vote together. 145 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: But I hadn't seen him for a while. Anybody called 146 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: and said, would you consider joining the administration? And you 147 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: can remember I worked really hard for Marco Rubio. I 148 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: had never met Donald Trump at that point. I said, 149 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: mister Vice President elect, it would be an honor, and 150 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: he said good and he hung up. That phone call 151 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: was maybe two minutes Monday. He called back with a 152 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: more concrete pozzle, said, would you consider interviewing to be 153 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: CIA director? Crazy. It was the first time I actually 154 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: told my wife Susan. The day before I kind of thought, ah, 155 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: that's just nothing. They're being nice, And by Wednesday I 156 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: was in New York City interviewing with President Trump. On 157 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: Thursday he offered and I accepted the position, and a 158 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: Friday morning, at eight am Eastern, I was the nominee 159 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: to b CIA director. And so without the invention of 160 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: Mike Pennce thinking of me, suggesting I might be capable 161 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: of fulfilling that role in the Trump administration, I might 162 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: still be the congressman from Kansas. You know, I think 163 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: there's a lesson here for the public. Compared, for example, 164 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: with the current Secretary Transportation, Trump actually was focused on 165 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: people who could do the job, people who actually were competent. 166 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: In your case, with your West Point background, your Harvard background, 167 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: your business background, you brought a lot of different talents 168 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: the CIA and then later on at the State Department. 169 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: What is your take on the whole event in Ukraine, 170 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: how it's been handled, how you all were handling it 171 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: back before the overt Russian invasion, because it seemed to 172 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,839 Speaker 1: me you had really stepped up dramatically from where the 173 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: Obama team was in trying to help the Ukrainians be 174 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: capable of survival. It's remarkable. I get asked all the time, 175 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: would this have happened if you were still there? And 176 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: of course it's counterfactual. One can't prove it. But Vladimir Puttin, 177 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: you know this right, Vladimir Putin hasn't changed. His desire 178 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: for greater Russia has remained consistent throughout his adult life. 179 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: The idea that the dissolution of the Soviet Union is 180 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: the greatest catastrophe of last century is deeply in his DNA, 181 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: It's in his heart. So this war actually begins in 182 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: two and fifteen, when Vladimir Puttin takes a fifth of Ukraine, 183 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: and when now President Biden, then Vice President Biden was 184 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: the single actor in the Obama administration saying we cannot 185 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: provide defensive systems to the Ukrainians. We came in. It 186 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: took a while John Bolton writes about this to convince 187 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: the President to provide those weapons, but we did. As 188 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: CI Director, I was actually in Ukraine on a couple 189 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: of occasions. Our officers and our military were training Ukrainian 190 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: special forces, so Ukraine and special operators on the ground there. 191 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: I'm confident that this made a difference. It also sent 192 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: the deterrence message to Vladimir Putin, and so while he 193 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: took a fifth of Ukraine in twenty fifteen, he didn't 194 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: take an inch of Europe during our four years. And 195 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: then knew sadly we lost the bubble, We lost the 196 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: deterrence that is so important in American security, and he 197 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: invades Ukraine and now killed thousands of innocent Ukrainians, including 198 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of children, and threatens all of Europe 199 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: if we don't get this right. I blame the Biden 200 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: administration for losing deterrence. I credit them for now providing 201 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: the tools, including intelligence tools, that the Ukrainians need to 202 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: end their own sovereign territory. I regret that he's been 203 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: way too slow, way too late, and way too weak. 204 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: This might have ended more quickly had we provided the 205 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: Ukrainians with what they needed to actually push back against 206 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: the Russian military in a serious way early. We didn't. 207 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: We were slow, we were afraid of provoking Putin, and 208 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: we find ourselves today in a precarious situation. We need 209 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: to continue to have the determination to help the Ukrainians 210 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: fight for their country. Let me go, let's step further here, 211 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: because you told a story which I heard one time, 212 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 1: that is so powerful and so emotional and such an 213 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: example both of your commitment as a human being and 214 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: your commitment to religion. I'm jumping all the way now 215 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: from Ukraine to North Korea. Then I just want you 216 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: to share it's a remarkable story. The very first trip 217 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: I took to North Korea was Easter weekend of twenty eighteen. 218 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: President Trump had made the conclusion we needed to change 219 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: the way. We approached Chairman Kim, and we wanted to 220 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: set up summit trying shaped the situation. When I went, 221 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: it was the case that the Otto Warm Beer had 222 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: just been returned to the United States. He'd been held 223 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: in North Korea and died as a result of his 224 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: maltreatment there. So there you are sitting across the table 225 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: from this evil guy who's killed an American, a great 226 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: young man. On my second visit, he was still holding 227 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: three Americans pastors who were in prison for having proselytized 228 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: inside of North Korea. At about four thirty in the afternoon, 229 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: I looked Chairman Kim in the eye and said, it 230 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: is my expectation and that of the President United States, 231 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: that they will fly back with me to their families. 232 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: The meeting ended, I went back to the airport. When 233 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: I arrived at the airplane, my team said that North 234 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: Korean's had come and asked a group of our party 235 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 1: to go with them. And about fifteen minutes later, a 236 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 1: white panel van pulled up. And how did that panel 237 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: van come? The three Americans knew it's hard to imagine. 238 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,719 Speaker 1: It's your point about emotion. Even telling it today, we 239 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: know what their health conditions were like. We didn't know 240 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: if they'd be on gurneys. We had no idea what 241 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: their conditions were. And they walked out of the van 242 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: and they started walking and a little faster, and the 243 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: closer they got to the American airplane, the more quickly 244 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: they ran. And they came up the steps, and we 245 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: flew home with them, and they got back to their families. 246 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: Three lessons knew. One, we didn't give the North Koreans 247 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: a thing. We didn't hand over a terrorist. We didn't 248 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: pay them a penny. We used American decency and power 249 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: to get them home to their families. Second, well, we 250 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: had a big geostrategic mission. We never forgot them. We 251 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: never forgot that there were these Americans and we needed 252 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: to get them home. And finally, it's a reminder that 253 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: there is evil in the world when we get back 254 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: to Joint Bass Andrews one of these men, and he 255 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: wrote a piece that's in my book, in the very 256 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: beginning of the book, in his own words, is his 257 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: experience when he was pulled out of his jail cell. 258 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: He had a hood put over him and he thought 259 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: he was being led to his execution. And then he 260 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: shows up and sees the US logo on the side 261 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: of the airplane. It's really crazy. And he wrote a 262 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: note to me that night from the psalms, and I'll 263 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: never forget the incredible privilege I had to greet him 264 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: when he came home to be a small part of 265 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: such an important victory for the United States. The thing 266 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: I was always struck about with your particular approach was, 267 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: on the one hand, you had very big ideas. On 268 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,479 Speaker 1: the other hand, you had this instinct for helping specific 269 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: people in a way that changed their life and their 270 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: family's life. It's an interesting sort of dual approach to 271 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: how you were doing the job. We did that everywhere, right. 272 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: We had big plans in the Middle East. We may 273 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: talk about them, but we also knew that getting hastages 274 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: out of Iran mattered. We knew that protecting human rights 275 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: inside of Iran, giving those people a chance mattered. We 276 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: wanted life to be better all throughout the Middle East. 277 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: And so there's the American interest, the geostrategic interest that 278 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: we all talk about and think about, and then there's 279 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: the American interest about preserving human dignity every place we go. 280 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: It's good for Arkans too, and good for people all 281 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: around the world. We're making in the Middle East amazing 282 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: progress with the Abrahamic Chords and with the whole bringing 283 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: together of Arab states in a way that we had 284 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: never seen before. And it struck me that by the 285 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: end of twenty twenty we really were moving towards a 286 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: dramatically more stable Middle East, and since then we've moved 287 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: in exactly the opposite direction to I think now an 288 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: enormous danger that at some point the Israelis, out of desperation, 289 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: are going to preamplantly take out the Iranian nuclear cabul 290 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: because they're watching the US not only not do anything, 291 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: but actually I just saw a note yesterday they were 292 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: pressuring the Iraqis to give five hundred million dollars back 293 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: to Iran, which it strikes me as close to insane, 294 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: But whatta you all were applying maximum including billing ceremony 295 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: the leader of all of their worldwide terrorist organizations, and 296 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: you were prepared to take a risk which you personally 297 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: still bear the threat from because the Iranians took it 298 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: pretty personally in regard to as one of the two 299 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: or three key people they would like to get. Yes, 300 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: the Iranians are still trying to kill me. We kind 301 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: of laugh about it because this is serious stuff, and 302 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: it's a direct result of being serious in our efforts. 303 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: You know, the history in the Middle East, secretaries of 304 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: state typically fly from Ramala or nobilists to Tel Aviv 305 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: and they trying to negotiate lines on the map. We 306 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: knew that that would never succeed. We knew that whether 307 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: it was carry or Condoleeze or Rice or Powell or 308 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: Secretary Clinton, when you're negotiating with Abumazin, the leader of 309 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: the Palestinians on the West Bank, that's just not going 310 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: to work. And so we decided nuts we're going to 311 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: go a different direction. So we did three things. First, 312 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: we made very clear precisely what the Biden administration has not. 313 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: We were going to support the Nation of Israel as 314 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: the rightful homeland of the Jewish people. We were unambiguous 315 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: about this. I have no closer friend than the former 316 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: director of Masad Yosi Cohen. From my time and service, 317 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: we were linked arm in arm with them because they 318 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: were the loan democracy in the Middle East and they 319 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: were great security partner for the United States. The second 320 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: thing was this deep recognition of Iran as the problem child, 321 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: as the world's largest state sponsored terror and so we 322 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: ripped up the silly nuclear deal that the Obama administration 323 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: had entered, which guaranteed Iran a pathway to a nuclear weapon, 324 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 1: and said, we're going to destroy their capacity to do that. 325 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: We're going to try and take the regime's resources away 326 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: so they can't build out a nuclear program. So we 327 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: called it the Maximum Pressure Campaign, and we were pretty 328 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: darned successful. We isolated Iran in a way they had 329 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: never been isolated before. And it was those two things 330 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: new that came together to build what became to Abraham Accords, 331 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: because the Arab States, the Gulf Arab States, could see 332 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: we were serious. We were going to support Israel. We 333 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: were going to make life difficult for Iran, who was 334 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: trying to do harm to them, and so they said, goodness, gracious, 335 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: let's make peace with the nation of Israel and be 336 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: on their side from a security perspective, and it's pretty good. 337 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: There were two agreements before between countries in the Middle 338 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: East and Israel. Now there are six. The Middle East 339 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 1: is more secure and more prosperous as a direct result 340 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: of that, and most importantly for US, and we always 341 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: were thinking about America first. Most importantly for us, the 342 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: chance that we have to send US forces to fight 343 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: and risk their lives in that area is now substantially lower. 344 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: So it is an unambiguously good thing. And the fact 345 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: that the Biden administration has gone back to playing footsie 346 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: with the Iranians presents an enormous increase in risk to 347 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: the Middle Eastern countries. We saw yesterday the Kingdom of 348 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia announced they are hedging their bets with Iran. 349 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: We can see the Israelis trying to figure out exactly 350 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: what you describe, if we have to do something hard, 351 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: will the Americans actually be with us? I think there's 352 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: some doubt about that. That doubt is dangerous. We had 353 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: the right end of the stick here. I regret that 354 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: the Biden administration has flipped basically one hundred and eighty 355 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: degrees with respect to our policies in the Middle East. 356 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: They seem to have a position of weakness wherever possible, 357 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: which was sort of the opposite of how you'd approach them. 358 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: One of the obvious places that this becomes really important, 359 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: it's China, and you just find a pretty good bit 360 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: of time in your book on the whole question of 361 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: China and the future of our relationship there. Both as 362 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: a CIA director in the sectory of State, you had 363 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: a lot of interaction about China. What is it you 364 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: wish the American people understood about China? There are really 365 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: three things that are important for Americans to know. First, 366 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: this isn't about the Chinese people. This is about a 367 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: communist party. Those of us knew who lived through the 368 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: Soviet Union and its ideology. Understand that this ideology drives Jishingping, 369 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: the leader of the Chinese Communist Party. It drives their behavior. 370 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: You have to accept that central premise about this is 371 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: a Marxist Leninist leader in charge of a communist party 372 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,719 Speaker 1: that wants global hegemony. Second piece, you got to understand 373 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: their capabilities. They are broad, big space capability, big missile capability, 374 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: big nuclear capability, large military an enormous creativity. Most of 375 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,959 Speaker 1: the intellectual property was originally ours and they stole it. 376 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: But we should not underestimate their ability to innovate and build. 377 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: And then, finally, this isn't a long ways away. This 378 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: isn't about something that's happening inside of the country. What's 379 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: happening against Shenjong. A million people held in camps, genocide, 380 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: trying to take out these wagers, this Muslim population. That's bad, 381 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: But this is at home. The Chinese Communist Party is 382 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: inside the gates. They have enormous influence in nearly every 383 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: university in America. They are operating propaganda campaigns against members 384 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: of Congress. We saw that with Congressmen Swalwell. They're operating 385 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: propaganda campaigns against city council member and school board members. 386 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: Think about that. Everyone should recognize this isn't just about 387 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: our federal officials. This is everywhere. They're operating influence operations 388 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: on Wall Street and in our tech community. They had 389 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: the largest spying operation I think ever inside the United States, 390 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: being run out of their consul in Houston, Texas. This 391 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,479 Speaker 1: problem of the Chinese Communist Party is all around us. 392 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: It's inside the gates today, and that means there is 393 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: a lot of work to do to push back against them. 394 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: I'm really happy we were the first administration, and President 395 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: Trump gave me the space to do this. We were 396 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: the first administrations to actually acknowledge this risk and begin 397 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: to turn America towards confronting that risk in a way 398 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: that we'll protect the American people. You had a personal 399 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: experience of this when you were the Secretary of State 400 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: and m T would not allow you to speak. When 401 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,479 Speaker 1: I saw that, I thought, this is insane. The highest 402 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: ranking cabinet officer, because us the nature of the Secretary 403 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: of State, and you're serving the American people, and one 404 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: of our greatest universities is so owned by the Chinese 405 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: head rejects having the Secretary of States meet. It was crazy. 406 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: We were all set to speak there and then MIT 407 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: basically said we can't let you do this because we 408 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: think that Chinese Communist Party will punish us. By the way, 409 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: probably right, probably would have punished them. Your point is 410 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: exactly the right one. The fact that I wasn't that 411 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,360 Speaker 1: the Secretary State to go give a speech about Chinese 412 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: influence in higher education, can't go to this amazing research 413 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: institution and just speak about it in a factual way. 414 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: It was happy to debate it with them as well. 415 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: I was taken aback by that. We went to ten 416 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: or eleven schools. I finally gave the speech from your 417 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: home state new and I gave it a Georgia Tech 418 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: one can go read it it's online, and it was 419 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: about the money that is flooding into our schools and 420 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: universities from the Chinese Communist Party and what that means 421 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: to the next generation. How concerned are you about the 422 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: Chinese beginning to cooperate more closely with the Russians. Very concerned. 423 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: It was something we worked to try and keep from happening, 424 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,719 Speaker 1: with some success, but not perfect. Look, the Russians are 425 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: now isolated and the Chinese Communist Party, who claims to 426 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: be this noble voice for decency in the world, is 427 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: now buying cheap discounted fuel energy, natural gas oil. They 428 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: are almost certainly aiding and abetting the Russians efforts in Ukraine. 429 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: So the Chinese Communist Party is at the very least 430 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: green lighting continued Russian aggression against the West, and the 431 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: fact that they draw closer is something that we ought 432 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,959 Speaker 1: to do our best to prevent. And we should make 433 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: clear to the Chinese Communist Party we will hold them 434 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: accountable for anything that they do in Ukraine, and we 435 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: should make sure that when there are sanctions applied against 436 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 1: our friends. Right, so, we've put sanctions on different products, 437 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 1: and we shouldn't give the Chinese a pass on that 438 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: it's hard to do. It's possible, but it is also 439 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: deeply necessary. There are deep schisms, There are divergent interests 440 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: between Russia and China. This is not a light for 441 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: them to come together. As a geostrategic matter. The United 442 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: States should work to exploit those differences and try to 443 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: keep those two separate. The real threat to the United 444 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: States over the next twenty five years isn't Russia. It is, 445 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: in fact China. It's Communist Party, and we need to 446 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: make sure that distinction is made clear and that we 447 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: work to keep China as isolated as possible from the 448 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: rest of the world. Why did you decide to write 449 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 1: I'll Never Give an Inch. I wrote the book because 450 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: it was important to recount the history as I had 451 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: seen it. The media, The New York Times, the Washington 452 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: Posts were never going to tell the actual facts of 453 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: what happened. And I wanted the American people too, and 454 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: the world to see how we thought about America and 455 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: it is a force for good in the world as 456 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: the most exceptional nation in the history of civilization. I 457 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: wanted everyone to be able to read how we tried 458 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: to as practitioners continue that you found the State Department 459 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: a very difficult instrument to get folks some American values, 460 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 1: in American interest. What is there about the State Department 461 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: that makes it operate the way it does. It's like 462 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 1: any large bureaucracy that it is difficult and unwieldy. But 463 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 1: the State Department has the special place, which is that 464 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: folks who choose to go there, by and large don't 465 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: have a value set that is consistent with mine. That's 466 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 1: not their exceptions. They're great people there, but largely they 467 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: come from a left of left of center worldview, which 468 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: is an understanding of the world in America's place in 469 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: the world as not particularly unique or special, and too 470 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: many of them think that America is not the solution 471 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: but the problem. I think there's a lot of reasons 472 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: for that that the folks who choose to go their 473 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: self select are. The rewards inside the system are based 474 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: on that set of understandings. There's three unions at the 475 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: State Department. Knew that's just a mess. We can fix it, 476 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 1: and then I hope we will get young conservatives who 477 00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: decide I want to go be a part of the 478 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 1: national security team. The State Department would be a great 479 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: place to go. Do that, and they'll begin to help 480 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: us build out a state department. Not that is Mike 481 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: pompeo State Department or Donald Trump's State Department, but a 482 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: state department that does the mission of the President of 483 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: the United States of America. That's really what it should 484 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: be focused on, and sadly today that doesn't happen as 485 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 1: often as it must. Look, I want to thank you 486 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: for joining me. Your new book, Never Give an Inch 487 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: Fighting for the America I love, is a must read 488 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: for all Americans. We're going to have it on our 489 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: show page so people can link to it. I'm thrilled 490 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 1: you would spend the time with us in Newtsworld new 491 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: Thank you, bless you have a great day. Thank you 492 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: to my guest secretary of Mike Pompeo. You can get 493 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book, Never Give An 494 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: Inch on our show page at newtsworld dot com. NEWTS 495 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: World is produced by Gain Wistreet sixty and iHeartMedia. Our 496 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,360 Speaker 1: executive producer is Garnsey Slow, our producer is Rebecca Hall, 497 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: and our researcher is Rachel Peterson YEA work for the 498 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: show was created by Steve Pendley. Special thanks to the 499 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: team at Gingwish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, 500 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate 501 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so 502 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners 503 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: of Newtsworld can sign up for my three free weekly 504 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: columns at gingwish three sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm 505 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,719 Speaker 1: Newt Gingrish. This is Newtsworld