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Speaker 1: Hey, Hey, va fam. I am so happy to welcome

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Speaker 1: today's guest. She is the host and executive producer of

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Speaker 1: a show you might have heard of probably watched, called

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Speaker 1: Equal Justice with Judge Ebanie K Williams. Ebanie is the

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Speaker 1: host and executive producer of Equal Justice with Judge Ebanie

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Speaker 1: K Williams, which is a nationally syndicated court television show.

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Speaker 1: She hosts and is the EP of the NAACP Image

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Speaker 1: Award winning Holding Court with Ebanie K Williams. She's also

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Speaker 1: guest host at the View That Breakfast Club. You might

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Speaker 1: have known her from a show called The Real Housewives

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Speaker 1: of New York City, where she trailblazed, becoming the show's

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Speaker 1: first black cast member ever, and her best selling book,

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Speaker 1: bet On Black. If you haven't go get it when

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Speaker 1: you're waiting for It's better around since twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: bet On Black, The Good News About Being Black in America.

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Speaker 1: The paperback version We Love a paperback for the Summer,

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Speaker 1: was just released the past July, and ebany I am

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Speaker 1: just so so thrilled to have you here. We were

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Speaker 1: doing a little minikiki. I have been on your show before,

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Speaker 1: but this is the first time I feel like we're

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Speaker 1: meeting like one on one without sort of like you know,

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Speaker 1: a topic at.

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Speaker 2: My cycle, you know, holding us at Bay Mandy. So

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Speaker 2: good to see you, my dear. I love this podcast.

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Speaker 2: So I was really really excited when our lovely editor

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Speaker 2: and publisher Krishan connected this opportunity. So I'm thrilled.

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Speaker 1: Oh was she the mastermind?

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Speaker 2: She was she always pulling the strings of fantastic black

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Speaker 2: women and putting us together.

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Speaker 1: So she's the best. I know. I'm so proud to

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Speaker 1: be a legacy lit author. You were one of the

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Speaker 1: first legacy lit authors.

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Speaker 2: Not early stage, yeah, coming through coming in hot in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three two. But anyways, it's been great.

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Speaker 1: Well, the book came out then someone I know you

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Speaker 1: had to you had to have started that book.

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Speaker 2: Started with for Seawan pre Pandemic, Yeah and yeah, a

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Speaker 2: love Affair after that, and then so many great authors

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Speaker 2: have joined the full, including yourself and brother Clarence. I

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Speaker 2: know you guys just spoke. I see him back.

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Speaker 1: Yes my book club pick. Yes, you as a as

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Speaker 1: a book club selection could be behind me the whole month. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to support It's so it's so tough, you know,

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Speaker 1: authors have a hard time selling these books these days.

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Speaker 2: You know, people. The creating of the manuscript itself and

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Speaker 2: the chiseling of the book and the work is one lift,

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Speaker 2: but the selling them suckers. Woo baby, that is a

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Speaker 2: whole different lift.

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Speaker 1: And I'm trying to have my brain split in two places.

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Speaker 1: I'm finishing the book, but I'm also thinking about the

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Speaker 1: marketing of the book.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and you're spending time thinking about that right now.

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Speaker 2: Good job, many Yeah, it must be that ambition in you, girl.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's my problem is that I've been surrounded

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Speaker 1: so many brilliant women who have done incredible things and

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Speaker 1: published books, and they've all given me advice, So I

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Speaker 1: can't say I didn't know, like I have no freshman

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Speaker 1: author kind of excuse here. But enough about that, all right,

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Speaker 1: catch us up? So what are you doing these days?

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Speaker 1: You've been on hiatus in summer. You're a new mommy.

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Speaker 2: I am still a relatively I don't know how long

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Speaker 2: do you're a pro mommy? So how long do I

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Speaker 2: get to claim new mommy ship?

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Speaker 1: I'm still a new mommy. Five years is not enough

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Speaker 1: time to call myself five years? What would I be?

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Speaker 1: Maybe a director? Levels like mid the C.

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Speaker 2: Suite yet management Mommy. Yeah. So my little daughter Liberty

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Speaker 2: just turned one last week actually as of this recording,

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Speaker 2: and that was really beautiful. We had a great first year, Mandy.

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Speaker 2: She is so happy and she is so healthy, and

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Speaker 2: I am happy and I am healthy, which we know.

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Speaker 2: We can't take any piece of that for granted, especially

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Speaker 2: as Black women who have the audacity to give birth

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Speaker 2: in this country and in the city of New York,

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Speaker 2: which I would be remiss not to name shocking to

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Speaker 2: most people. Black women are really like eight to nine

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Speaker 2: times more likely to die than our white counterparts in

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Speaker 2: New York, which is beyond tragic. So that's been a

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Speaker 2: part of my new work, if we will. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I've always worked in the advancing and advocacy of black

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Speaker 2: people and Black girls and women especially, but now that

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Speaker 2: I have given birth in this city and have seen

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Speaker 2: up close and personally where there's some good practices and

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Speaker 2: where there's tremendous room for improvement, that will be part

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Speaker 2: of my work moving forward and already is increasing awareness

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Speaker 2: and best practices as they relate to Black maternal health

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Speaker 2: and birth.

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Speaker 1: Was there anything that surprised you about the prenatal experience.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there's plenty that surprised you post birth, but

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Speaker 1: you know that healthcare aspect anything surprising you.

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Speaker 2: So a few things about my birth story that may

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Speaker 2: or may not make it more unique than some others.

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Speaker 2: First thing, I was considered am considered a geriatric pregnancy

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Speaker 2: now that we call it advanced maternal age. So I

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Speaker 2: was forty during my pregnancy and gave birth just week

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Speaker 2: shy of my forty first birthday.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that there is that I was thirty six

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Speaker 1: when I had my which was most recent considered. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I was also a geriatric mom. Yeah, we have to

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Speaker 1: know every month, every week rather every week they were

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Speaker 1: in there touching you and prodding. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And what I'll say about that, Mandy, is because I

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Speaker 2: think if you don't know, it's easy to assume that

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Speaker 2: maybe this is ego or something we're stuck on, like

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Speaker 2: I ain't know. No, no, no, no no. From a

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Speaker 2: medical standpoint, right, we understand physicians and healthcare professionals and

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Speaker 2: nurses and everybody involved in this have a tremendous job

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Speaker 2: to do, and it's a very important one and we

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Speaker 2: thank God that they do it. However, because of those

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Speaker 2: kind of labels and standards. It's very stemic in the

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Speaker 2: way in which they treat you, you know. So it's like,

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Speaker 2: we do this for advanced maternal mothers, we do this

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Speaker 2: for this, this, and this. So one of the places

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Speaker 2: where I see an opportunity for growth and improvement is

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Speaker 2: while we can appreciate standard practice regimes based on numbers

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Speaker 2: or weight or age or what have you, let's also

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Speaker 2: be open to the individual aspects and variables of us

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Speaker 2: as women and mothers.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So, what we know is every forty year old or

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Speaker 2: every thirty six year old or every forty two year

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Speaker 2: old is not running the same bill of health, right,

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Speaker 2: so let's make sure that the care reflects, yes, the age,

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Speaker 2: but also the overall holistic picture of health. So that

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Speaker 2: was something that I noticed during my you know, pregnancy,

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Speaker 2: that it's like, I appreciate the standards and also let's

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Speaker 2: look at my blood work, let's look at my heart rate,

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Speaker 2: let's look at my actual picture of health, and let's

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Speaker 2: move according to that.

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Speaker 1: And were they receptive for that? Did you feel like,

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Speaker 1: you know, well, you tell me.

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Speaker 2: What I think and I'm smiling kind of corely, is

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Speaker 2: I believe that there was more reception to me doing

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Speaker 2: it because it was me right, because I have a

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Speaker 2: public profile. Mainly, though more than that, I think it's

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Speaker 2: because I'm a classically trained professional advocate. I'm a lawyer,

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Speaker 2: for God's sakes, and I'm a damn good one. So

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Speaker 2: I think that had it been another black woman, still educated,

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Speaker 2: still financially affluent, because we know that these outcomes don't

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Speaker 2: differ based on education or wealth. You know, this is

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Speaker 2: why you have people like Serena Williams, women like Beyonce

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Speaker 2: almost dying in childbirth. This is very important. I think

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Speaker 2: because of my increased skill set as an advocate and

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Speaker 2: in this capacity is self advocate, I was able to

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Speaker 2: probably be more effective than others. And I will lastly

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Speaker 2: end all this talk with where this showed up the

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Speaker 2: most for me, Mandy, is I, for very specific reasons,

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Speaker 2: wanted to avoid a cesarean birth. I want to be

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Speaker 2: very clear here. Cesareans saved the lives of mothers and

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Speaker 2: babies every day, So this is not a demonizing of cesareans.

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Speaker 2: But I, as most listening to this will know, had

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Speaker 2: chose to go on this beautiful, trying and exciting motherhood

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Speaker 2: journey solo. So I'm what we call a solo mom

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Speaker 2: by choice, and because of that, I did not want

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Speaker 2: to put myself and baby Liberty in the position of

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Speaker 2: being in postpartum recovery, which is already a lot, and

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Speaker 2: doing it solo, not with a partner. I should say

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Speaker 2: I did have some help, which I'll get to, and

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Speaker 2: also having to recover from a major, major surgery, which

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Speaker 2: we know a cesarean is cutting seven plus layers of

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Speaker 2: tissue and muscle. So I wanted to avoid a cesarean.

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Speaker 2: And so there were certain things that I was insistent about,

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Speaker 2: right like I didn't really want to be induced. I

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Speaker 2: really wanted to monitor any potosin very closely, just certain

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Speaker 2: themes that once we start triggering these interventions, then these

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Speaker 2: ones surely follow and next thing you know, it is

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Speaker 2: statistically more likely to end up in a Cssaian position.

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Speaker 2: I will tell you, Mandy that my insistence on managing

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Speaker 2: those dynamics while legs up, cooch open.

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Speaker 1: This peanut ball, that all of that has.

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Speaker 2: Over the course of what ultimately was forty five hours

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Speaker 2: of labor and five hours of pushing, that was a

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Speaker 2: real challenge. And even with my public position and legal

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Speaker 2: superior training, and this and that that was a battle.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sorry I did not realize. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: you were doing this solo.

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Speaker 2: God bless Yes, Yes, I had a wonderful black woman doula.

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Speaker 1: If I was just about to ask what was your

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Speaker 1: what was your support? Like?

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Speaker 2: It was fantastic all the support money can buy, and

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Speaker 2: that prayers could answer. I had a wonderful black woman doula.

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Speaker 2: I have and still have a phenomenal black woman obg

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Speaker 2: y n that I had a pre existing relationship. She's

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Speaker 2: been treating me for eight years. When I started my

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Speaker 2: fertility freezing, egg freezing journey many years ago at RMA

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Speaker 2: here in the city, I had a fantastic night nurse,

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Speaker 2: a black woman who stayed with Liberty and myself for

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Speaker 2: twelve hours a day. She would come at eight pm

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Speaker 2: and stay till eight am for the first four months,

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Speaker 2: and she was worth every expensive penny. And I don't

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Speaker 2: know what surviving that postparton would have looked like without

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Speaker 2: that that level of support for me.

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Speaker 1: Not that that's I remembering my post partner experience, I

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Speaker 1: can tell you what it looks like. Not great even

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Speaker 1: with a.

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Speaker 2: Partner, Yeah, yeah, exactly, even great. A partner, even with

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Speaker 2: the support team, even with the night nurses and the nanny,

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Speaker 2: it's still just an enormous feat. So bravo's all the

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Speaker 2: mamas that have done it and continue to do it.

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Speaker 1: But what a joy? Isn't it such a joy?

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Speaker 2: She so for her birthday, I'm very non conventional, so

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Speaker 2: I didn't do like a party. But what I did

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Speaker 2: do is have a very small group of friends who

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Speaker 2: have really become my family toast her and celebrate her.

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Speaker 2: And she had a little cupcake shout out to make

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Speaker 2: my cake here in Harlem and on the Upper West Side,

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Speaker 2: and we also did a really beautiful photo shoot. But

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Speaker 2: the point of this story is there's a candidate that

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Speaker 2: one of my sorority sisters took of me in this

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Speaker 2: little intimate toasting, and I don't know who's cracking up

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Speaker 2: shee'sing Big or me or Liberty. I mean, she's just

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Speaker 2: so brought out my inner child in the most best.

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Speaker 1: It really is the way that I can be. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've been super transparent with BA family. Postpartum journey was

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Speaker 1: tough both times, but there's just something about sitting on

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Speaker 1: the floor, just getting down to the floor, you know,

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Speaker 1: like and just being along the levels on their level,

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Speaker 1: just the giggles and the sticky fingers and the it's

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Speaker 1: really it's been tough. I just dropped my kids off.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a village here in New York. I'm

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Speaker 1: actually from Georgia. I know you're a Southern girl.

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Speaker 2: Too, North Carolina shout out, Yeah, yes.

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Speaker 1: You went to UNC, right, Yeah, did you see U

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Speaker 1: Ga Ga? All right, I'm never edible dog journalism, girly

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: School. By the way, I've got some great frisks. They

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Speaker 2: came out of gu Ga.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, same for UNC. I guess it's also known for

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Speaker 1: some great journalists. Yeah. So, but my family, they're not

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Speaker 1: around here at all. My moms in Saint Louis. My

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Speaker 1: dad's in Atlanta, so really didn't have much of a village.

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Speaker 1: So I anyway, we I flew my two children to

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Speaker 1: Saint Louis this past weekend and dropped them off with

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Speaker 1: my mom and came back the same day. It was

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Speaker 1: a very long day of travel and they haven't been

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Speaker 1: here and it's been me and my husband, and it's

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Speaker 1: been weird and sad in a weird way, like I'm

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Speaker 1: trying I enjoy it. I enjoy it. You know, it

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Speaker 1: has been really hard with no breaks for like five years,

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Speaker 1: through the pandemic and starting a business, and like my

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Speaker 1: husband and I never see each other. It's crazy, you know,

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it's just like who, like,

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Speaker 1: good luck tomorrow with the rest of your life. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, God bless I hope you're don't don't let

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Speaker 1: you get still, let one of us get sick that

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Speaker 1: it's like any other person to take it. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: we need to reconnect, We need to do like refresh

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Speaker 1: the house all this stuff. But God, I miss the

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Speaker 1: fun I really do, especially in dark times like this.

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Speaker 2: Was speaking of dark times. My light just went out

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Speaker 2: and I want to illuminate it right Like.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like you have a career in television. Heyba fan,

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break, pay some bills,

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Speaker 1: and we'll be right back. All right, ba fan, We're back.

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Speaker 1: So the name Liberty, I have to ask for how

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Speaker 1: did you come up with that? It's a big name.

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Speaker 2: It's a big name, which is why I gave her

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Speaker 2: a middle name that is much more conventional, Alexandria. So

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Speaker 2: she doesn't want to do the heavy lift of all

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Speaker 2: of that, Okay, she could just go by alex child

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Speaker 2: when to give.

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Speaker 1: Her liberty, Alexandria, it's very it's giving, it's giving. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: freedom spirit America.

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Speaker 2: Yea, yeah. So that was the basic answer, right is

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Speaker 2: I've wanted from her very onset for her to be

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Speaker 2: a free black girl in this world.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want her to have any question around that.

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Speaker 2: And we we both have lived enough to know that

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Speaker 2: this world, in this country will make you question it

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Speaker 2: every day. So I wanted to give her a moniker

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Speaker 2: that affirmed her birthright to be and remain free. I

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Speaker 2: also think, as I write about actually in bed on

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Speaker 2: Black the good news about being Black in America today,

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Speaker 2: I have an entire chapter, Mandy that I really explored

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Speaker 2: this notion of black patriotism and you know, my own

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Speaker 2: complicated relationship with you know, my identity as an American, right,

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Speaker 2: and I talk a lot about kind of garvy and

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Speaker 2: garvyism and you know, but also you know, because I

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Speaker 2: was very much at one time in my younger years

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Speaker 2: on that, you know, and on you know, and I

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Speaker 2: know in this moment in America right now, many many, many,

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Speaker 2: understandably many black Americans are on an exit strategy quite frankly,

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Speaker 2: and that's valid as hell, let me be very clear.

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Speaker 2: But then I was also complicated and conflicted around, you know,

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Speaker 2: the thoughts and words of the great Paul Robson, who

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Speaker 2: talks very brilliantly, and I'm paraphrasing, but essentially that while

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Speaker 2: of course we have the right and ability to leave

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Speaker 2: this land, he basically, I'll be damned. You know, my ancestors,

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Speaker 2: my forefathers and mothers, bled and sweat and put everything

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Speaker 2: they had into this land and into this country, and

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Speaker 2: we even more so have the right to claim it

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Speaker 2: as our very own and as our homeland. And I

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Speaker 2: am leaving my homeland. Period. So with all of that,

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Speaker 2: going back to naming liberty liberty, I think it's very

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Speaker 2: easy for us as Black Americans to allow our the

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Speaker 2: aspect of our Americana, of our identity, to be taken

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Speaker 2: away from us, to be undermined. And so we think

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Speaker 2: of symbols like American flags or names like liberty, life, liberty,

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Speaker 2: and the pursuit of happiness. You know, obviously there's a

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Speaker 2: very very far right, very problematic group of white women,

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Speaker 2: the Moms of Liberty or something, and I wanted to

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Speaker 2: complicate that. I wanted to challenge that that. I'll be

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Speaker 2: damned you you all who actually perversions of patriotism and

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Speaker 2: freedom and Americana as it's written to be, as it's

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Speaker 2: supposed to be, And I will not allow you to

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Speaker 2: have exclusive occupancy of these terms and ideologies. So that's

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Speaker 2: a long answer for I wanted to reclaim and reframe

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Speaker 2: a black girl in America being free.

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Speaker 1: That's so powerful. And yeah, and I wonder if you

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Speaker 1: got a chance to go to Cowboy Carter, what'd you say?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 1: Did you get a chance to see Cowboy Carter?

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Speaker 2: I did not, but I have Instagram, so I was.

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Speaker 2: I was happy. I was halfway there, right, and I

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Speaker 2: listened to it. I did love all of the reclamation

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Speaker 2: of the images from the flag to the red, white

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Speaker 2: and blue. And I know, obviously it was a conversation

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Speaker 2: starter lots of think pieces, but it's one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite aspects of Beyonce leveraging the global nature of her

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Speaker 2: brand and star power while still being a country black

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Speaker 2: girl from Houston and owning and and and her birthright

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Speaker 2: as such as a black country girl from Houston, Texas

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Speaker 2: to be really a founder of country in that way,

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Speaker 2: she's you know, she's an a progeny line of the

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Speaker 2: very foundation of American country western music, and she reclaimed

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Speaker 2: it as she is entitled to.

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Speaker 1: I think, I mean, I I don't know. I don't

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Speaker 1: put words in your mouth, but I think as a

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Speaker 1: Southern girl myself, I moved from Georgia to New York

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Speaker 1: City for the career of my dreams. Like there weren't

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Speaker 1: really jobs. Atlanta was not what it is today.

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Speaker 2: Back in it was hot Atlanta. I remember it.

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Speaker 1: Maybe Hotlanta, but not for career girl, Like it did

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Speaker 1: not help.

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Speaker 2: That's the point I'm making. It was, you know, for

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Speaker 2: some things and not as much for others.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, so for my career, I left, as you know,

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Speaker 1: and I I diminished my Southern accent and I you know,

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Speaker 1: I masked it. You kind of code switch. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's just becoming a maybe it's a

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Speaker 1: combination of becoming a mom. You know, records like Beyonce,

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Speaker 1: that Cowboy Carter, everything happening who knows since in the

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Speaker 1: past eight years, eight to you know, nine years, everything

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Speaker 1: that's happened in politics, and it makes me as as

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Speaker 1: an active protest and what you're saying, it's reminded me

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Speaker 1: this feeling I have of like reclaiming those roots before

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Speaker 1: it feels like somebody erases me, it tries to erase

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Speaker 1: us from them. So I mean, we're talking about moving

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Speaker 1: back to Georgia. I'm ready to, you know, reclaim my

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Speaker 1: Atlanta roots and want my boys to know that they

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Speaker 1: have a black mom from the South. Yes, And it

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Speaker 1: just feels it feels like an active protest, and it

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Speaker 1: also reminds me. It makes me think of what's happening

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Speaker 1: right now when we have you know, I think just

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Speaker 1: today Trump was on his social media platform whatever it

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Speaker 1: was true, so truth social truth, socialing about the Smithsonian

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Speaker 1: and how you know it's time the museums are the

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Speaker 1: last woke institutions that need to be corrected and literally rewriting,

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Speaker 1: like the threat of erasure and the threat of rewriting history.

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Speaker 2: But and I don't even know that it's a threat anymore, right,

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Speaker 2: like you're saying, I mean, he's already this planged some

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Speaker 2: and done some of it, Like they've already reduced parts

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Speaker 2: of the Constitution from certain other parts of the exhibit

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Speaker 2: that are, you know, contrary to how he runs this country.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to go to a tangent, but I

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Speaker 2: will say, first of all, bravo to you Mandy from

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Speaker 2: Georgia for stepping into that protest and that reclamation, because

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Speaker 2: I think it's very powerful. I'll tell you this funny

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Speaker 2: little quick story. When I first moved to uh, New York,

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Speaker 2: which I'm for me, it was always going to be Harlem.

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Speaker 2: So I moved straight to Harlem now eleven years ago,

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Speaker 2: which is crazy because in some ways it feels like

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Speaker 2: I just got here, and then in other ways it

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Speaker 2: feels like it's been a really long time. So eleven

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Speaker 2: years ago, I came here from La Though. So my

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Speaker 2: route was born in southeast Louisiana. Five years of kindergarten

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Speaker 2: to college in North Carolina, law school back in Louisiana,

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Speaker 2: went to Loyola College of Law, back to North Carolina

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Speaker 2: to practice law for about five years way to the

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Speaker 2: West coast. Just wanted to hop on a microphone in

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Speaker 2: some capacity, So I went out to La Sight unseen,

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Speaker 2: landed into talk radio, was out there for four years,

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Speaker 2: and then twenty fourteen moved to New York for a

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Speaker 2: gig with CBS News. So I just got into New

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Speaker 2: York one of my dearest friends from college went to

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Speaker 2: Chapel Hill with me. She's a Bronx girl, boogie down

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Speaker 2: Bronx all day. We go to a house party. The

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Speaker 2: house party was in Harlem, but it was Bronx Harlem affiliated.

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Speaker 2: And a young lady in the car we're all, you know,

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Speaker 2: piled in and she's I said something something something, y'all,

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Speaker 2: and just you and something something something else, y'all. This

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Speaker 2: is fucking New York, bitch, you know, like, we don't

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Speaker 2: talk like that country. Slow ass shit up here. Bitch,

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Speaker 2: what don't make me bam a slam your motherfucking excuse me.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how much how we can far we

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Speaker 2: can go in this podcast all of that, because what

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Speaker 2: you're not gonna do is shame my Southern identity, which

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Speaker 2: is nine out of ten times your Southern identity, because

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Speaker 2: the vast majority of black New York, black, Chicago, black,

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Speaker 2: everything is the result of a great migration.

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Speaker 1: Great migration.

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Speaker 2: You know that if you haven't seen listeners, Henry Lewis

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Speaker 2: Gates has a fantastic documentary about said great migration on PBS.

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Speaker 2: Check it out while we still have PBS. And also,

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Speaker 2: to your point, you know, Charles Blow along with others,

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Speaker 2: are doing really great work around the reverse migration of

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Speaker 2: you know, many black folks in this country returning to

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Speaker 2: the South for political, economic, and social Uh yeahs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm definitely not alone. I think that I don't

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Speaker 1: think I I didn't clock that that was a trend,

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Speaker 1: and I'll have to look at char I love Charles,

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Speaker 1: I'm Blow. Yeah. I think you can't trust the Instagram

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Speaker 1: algorithm to keep you on tas and people's business because

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Speaker 1: I'm just like me and I haven't seen his stuff

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Speaker 1: in a while. I got to be more intentional about that. Well,

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Speaker 1: I love that. That's part. Would you ever go back

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Speaker 1: to Louisiana or North Carolina?

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Speaker 2: Oh no, not me.

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Speaker 1: You're good. Good on that.

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Speaker 2: I'm good. I've become one of those annoying New York

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Speaker 2: or nowhere people as it relates to America. But I

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Speaker 2: could actually see myself Mandy depending on you know, Liberty's

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Speaker 2: vibe and how she feels about it. Splitting our time

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Speaker 2: elsewhere globally, Actually, I would like to spend significant time,

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Speaker 2: more time in Acras. I'd like to spend more time

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00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 2: in Paris. There's this other global destinations in the world

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Speaker 2: that I feel calling my name.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, bring that liberty bell that's all over the world.

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Speaker 1: When you chose, because I mean you had a fertility journeys,

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Speaker 1: that means you you had a choice. You could choose

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Speaker 1: boy or girl.

433
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: Well one derny, it's funny. I actually couldn't because I

434
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 2: only had one embryo that was genetically normal after all

435
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 2: of that. So the long and dirty of my fertility journey,

436
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 2: I froze eggs at thirty four. I only retrieved ten.

437
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 2: And I say only because statistically it's very important, because

438
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 2: I know there's a lot of black women right now

439
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 2: having needed conversation around fertility and egg freezing and IVF

440
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 2: and I love it, Mandy, but a lot of it

441
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: is limited or misinformed, right, So let me just clear

442
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: a few things up real quick. Freezing eggs and freezing

443
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 2: eggs alone, meaning not embryos, And even if you freeze embryos,

444
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 2: there's a caveat. But just freezing eggs is a guarantee

445
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 2: to nothing. It's a guarantee to nothing. And let me

446
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 2: tell you why you don't know the quality of those

447
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 2: eggs because we can't test eggs alone. We can only

448
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:22,239
Speaker 2: test the genetic quality of embryos. So if you're just

449
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 2: freezing eggs, you're doing a great thing for the possibility

450
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 2: of one day biologically being able to have a child.

451
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 2: And in order for that to be a pretty high probability,

452
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: you need at least twenty eggs. That's what most doctors

453
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 2: are recommending today, so that normally requires one, two or

454
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 2: three egg retrievals. So now, if you're doing the math,

455
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 2: I think ten to fifteen thousand dollars times two or three. Okay,

456
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: hopefully now of your time and oh that right that

457
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 2: the money is just that part, which is a lot.

458
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: But then there is the process, the emotional, the time.

459
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: Luckily looking to it. Ladies, many many, many, many companies

460
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: these days do have some level of coverage. Avail yourself

461
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 2: to it on my tech girlies, get it popping.

462
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, tech be paying for that.

463
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, up in two, three, four retrievals.

464
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: Get given my husband's government insurance. Great, because I'm thinking

465
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: about freezing eggs. Actually, yeah, as insane as that means, yes.

466
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 2: Well, no, it doesn't sound insane at all. And in

467
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 2: your case, since you're married, I'm presuming you guys will

468
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: freeze embryos. So here's the other the thing I want

469
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 2: to clear up freezing eggs. While no longer experimental and

470
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 2: has come a long way, eggs are still relatively fragile

471
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 2: genetic material. So there's a lot that can go wrong.

472
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: They cannot survive a fall. They can easily get permit

473
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 2: it just versus. Embryos are a lot more sustainable as

474
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: a genetic tissue. Also, again, as I mentioned, they can

475
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 2: be tested genetically, and so you can know on the

476
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 2: front end before you freeze them. We've got five genetically

477
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: help the embryos, we've got two. Genetically, we got seven.

478
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 2: You can have forty eggs, and heaven forbid, they can

479
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 2: all be non viable, you know. And actually the older

480
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: we get mandy as women, the numbers tell us that

481
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 2: they become more and more and more not genetically viable,

482
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 2: because as you age past thirty five, you know, it's

483
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 2: just they're very likely to be. That's why you're likely

484
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 2: to miss. All of us are likely to miscarry later

485
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: in life, not because of anything our uteruses are doing

486
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 2: wrong or anything like that. It's because the eggs themselves

487
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: are of the poorest chromosomal quality. That's what's happening. So

488
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: I guess my real message here to black girls and

489
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 2: women thinking about this is, if you're thinking about freezing

490
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 2: your eggs, and you can freeze your eggs, do it.

491
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 2: I recommend as many cycles as you can afford, so

492
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: two or three you on a bank, as many eggs

493
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: as possible. And if you are partnered with somebody that

494
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: you feel good about being a long term at least

495
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: parent with a marriage or partner or not, create those

496
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: embryos and test them and freeze them and sending you

497
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 2: all the baby dust in love. Because I think if

498
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: you want to be a mother, and there's a million

499
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 2: ways to be a mom, including adoption and surrogacy and

500
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 2: all the things, but if being a biological mother is

501
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 2: even maybe important to you, you wanted to do all

502
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 2: of these things as the best you can to preserve

503
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: your options. Because when I froze eggs Mandy at thirty four,

504
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: I wasn't even convinced I wanted to be a mom.

505
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 2: I simply did it to maybe give myself an option.

506
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 2: And when I turned almost thirty nine, had just ended

507
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: an engagement. I was divorced in my twenties, but I

508
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: was coming out of a really broken hearted long term

509
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 2: engagement and all of a sudden dawned on me that

510
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 2: I think I do want to do this mom thing.

511
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: I was beyond grateful that I had those ten eggs banked,

512
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: but I was shocked and really disappointed when they only

513
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 2: yielded one that was genetically healthy and she was a girl.

514
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: So that's why I say, I didn't actually get a choice. Now,

515
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: most people, if you've got three, two, three, four, maybe

516
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: you do the girl love her. Women that had five

517
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: boy embryos, so they too didn't have a choice. So

518
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 2: it's interesting.

519
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, the boy, the boy chromosome runs deep in this family.

520
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 1: I had two boys. Everyone's having boys. I'm just like,

521
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: but yeah, part of me is I don't know about

522
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: a third. My heart says yes, my head says, girl,

523
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: you ain't rich enough, Like we need to build, build built.

524
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: I want a night nurse next time.

525
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 2: Night nurse is a game changer. I mean right, no,

526
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: no shame, no tea. If you can, even from a

527
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 2: sacrificial place, like, it's worth budgeting for, it's worth saving for,

528
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: it's worth cutting out something else for. It really is.

529
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: It really made my experience not horrible, like at all,

530
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 2: like I slept it was. It was you know, like

531
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 2: it was.

532
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: Does the sleep deprivation make the is the root of

533
00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: all evil?

534
00:29:59,080 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: Yeah?

535
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: Leave that one hundred percent.

536
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 2: I believe that, and I can say I didn't really

537
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,959
Speaker 2: experience that, and it's only the grace of God. Liberty

538
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: your skin sleeper. Liberty is a great sleeper and also

539
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 2: a night nurse savior.

540
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing. Well, would you mind if we pivot a

541
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: little bit into the business space leads in finance because

542
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: you are a such a badass. You've had an incredible career.

543
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: You're just getting started in a lot of ways, you know,

544
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: And I say that with all due respect. Obviously you've

545
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: accomplished so much, but you have so much fire and

546
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: drive and I'm just catch me up a little bit

547
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: on the career journey right now? And are you are

548
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: you is it the corporation of ebony right now? Do

549
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: you have like multiple different like LLC setup or are

550
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: you focused on you know, are you diversifying the types

551
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: of business that you're doing now? Like? What's what's it

552
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: all looking like?

553
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 2: Yeah? So the center of like my business model is

554
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: one umbrella LLC. And you know, I've got a couple

555
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: of doing businesses as under there, but primarily we're functioning

556
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 2: from the mothership. Right, the mothership overseas most things that

557
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 2: are front facing, So that's gonna be all of my contracts,

558
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: Like my Real Housewives of New York City contract goes

559
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: through there. My book deal contracts go through there, My

560
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: podcast contracts go through there with various partners I've had

561
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: over years, and we'll continue to have from the Black

562
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: Effects shout out to Charlemagne, Warner Music, shout out to

563
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: Interval Presents, and then you know our future partners Judge

564
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: Ebny contract runs through there. So all of those are

565
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: the different kind of tentacles that create the ecosystem of

566
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 2: you know, Ebany K. Williams LLC. Essentially, I do have

567
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 2: a sidebar production arm Uppity Productions, which specifically over some

568
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 2: of right, and of course my production company will be

569
00:31:55,040 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 2: named Uppity Productions, which oversees things that are more content specifics.

570
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: So book deals, podcasts, stuff like that go through there.

571
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: Speaking engagements go through any cable, so it's not a

572
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: lot of variance. I guess that's the point I'm making

573
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 2: because ultimately, anything that comes through my brain goes out

574
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 2: of one of those business tentacles. I made a decision, gosh,

575
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 2: I don't even know how many years ago now, maybe

576
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: seven that for me, I prefer all of my business

577
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: structures to run through independent contractor services. Right, So I

578
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 2: no longer am available as an employee to anyone. There's

579
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 2: no job, there's no capacity in which I would ever

580
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: function in that way again, which is not so common

581
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: for folks in the broader journalism media space, as you know,

582
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 2: because like say, if you work for Seeing, you know,

583
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: if you've got to.

584
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: Hears to us, maybe yes, but this is my W nine.

585
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be ninety nine or bust for me. Right,

586
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: but this is not an easy conversation to have with

587
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: some outlets, right, who is it?

588
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: They want to have you on the payroll.

589
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: Very important to them. Like I had a whole big

590
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 2: steak up when I was at Fox News about this.

591
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 2: You know, they were very reluctant. There have been other

592
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 2: partners I've had that will remain nameless that it's because

593
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 2: it's just very uncomfortable. A because it's not common, and

594
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 2: anything that's not common can be uncomfortable for businesses. And

595
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: then in business partners, that's the other thing. Everybody's a

596
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: partner of some sort. Right, So this shifts the I

597
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: don't want to say power dynamic, but maybe that is

598
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: the right framing where it certainly shifts the working dynamic,

599
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 2: because now there must be a bit more meeting of

600
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: the minds, if you will, for each step in the

601
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: professional engagement. You know, everybody more or less has to

602
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: feel that there's reciprocal value most steps of the way

603
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 2: right for this to continue to make business sense. But

604
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: what it does, though, does for these companies is I'm

605
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 2: out of their hair on benefits, on health insurance, on

606
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 2: this and that, you know, So I hold the responsibility

607
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 2: for all of those things as an independent business woman.

608
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: So that's why I always to tell people like, what

609
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: are you right? The reality is I'm a small business owner.

610
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 2: That's what I am at my core, more than a journalist,

611
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 2: more than a practicing attorney, more than anything else, more

612
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 2: than an author. I'm a small business owner, and a

613
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 2: part of my small business model is operating at all

614
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 2: those other capacities as a journalist, as a public speaker,

615
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: as an author, as you know, a judge, arbitrator.

616
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: What have you right? Yeah? I was recently I went

617
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: to the National Association of Black Journalist convention and now

618
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: bring that up because an ABJ.

619
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: Yes said, y'all were in Cleveland this year.

620
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Cleveland. Yeah, it's actually very cute. Surprised me truly,

621
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: But it was also my first time being at NABJ

622
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: in years, and I just missed it. I missed. I

623
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: had kind of you know, because I also have a

624
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: very non traditional career right now. Obviously not a housewife

625
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: and on cable news, but I have Yeah, I mean,

626
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: I've done a podcast, and I'm working on a book,

627
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 1: and I do like speaking and coaching and all these

628
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: different things, and I guess I kind of stopped considering

629
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: myself as a journalist so much, but I still it

630
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: was sort of like me reclaiming those those roots, you know,

631
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: the fact that, yeah, I mean, I consider Brown Ambition.

632
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: I've I've had sort of a year of a pivot.

633
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: I had a co host, Tiffany, as you know, and

634
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: then at the top of twenty twenty five started doing

635
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: the show independently. Still love Tiffany, She'll be on the

636
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: show next week, ba fan, But I yeah, I wanted

637
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: to reclaim Brown Ambition podcast as a media platform, as

638
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: a plot. I take it very seriously. I've always I've

639
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: always taken it seriously, I've always tried to have used

640
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: the same journalistic practices and you know.

641
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 2: And ethics that.

642
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that I was that I that I learned

643
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: and used early in my career, but not so I

644
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: don't want to like ascribe a label to it so

645
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: much like I am this, I am that. But it

646
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: was interesting to be at any BJ and see how

647
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: everybody there secretly wants to be doing what we're doing

648
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: like that anymore.

649
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it's a secret anymore. I remember

650
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 2: the last few NABJ conferences I attended. May he rest

651
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 2: in peace, the great Brian Monroe, Remember Brian, Yes, Brian,

652
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 2: before he passed, was convening a panel of you know,

653
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 2: me and many of my esteemed esteemed peers, Sunny Houston,

654
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 2: Faith Jenkins, other women.

655
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: Uh.

656
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: I think we were all women who had at one

657
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 2: time said it a news desk in a very traditional

658
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 2: way in some capacity, but had since moved on to

659
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 2: something different, some alternative platform, but that was still very

660
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: much rooted in standards and practices and journalism by trade,

661
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 2: So that that would be my framing for somebody like

662
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 2: you man, you are always going to be a journalist

663
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 2: by trade, as am I as I'm a lawyer by trade. Right,

664
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 2: Sunday's always going to be a lawyer by trade. She

665
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 2: just happens to co host the most popular show in

666
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: daytime television, right. So, but those trade foundations always guide

667
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: how we show up on these respective platforms. So I

668
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: think for young people, especially hearing us or watching us

669
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 2: and seeing how we move and like you say, wanting

670
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 2: to now do this and that, do understand underneath it?

671
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 2: You know, for us old heads, as I call this affectionately,

672
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: there's still very much practice at play. There's still very

673
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 2: much foundational structure and trade work as I call it,

674
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 2: at play that I think makes you know, bround ambition,

675
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 2: something that the other literal two hundred million content creators

676
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 2: are not.

677
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: Hey, ba fam, we got to take a quick break,

678
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: pay some bills, and we'll be right back. All right,

679
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: ba fam, We're back. I want to be selfish for

680
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 1: a minute, and since I have you here, just ask

681
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: for some business advice. I don't even know what my

682
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: big question would be, but I think the thing that

683
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: I've struggled with the past couple of years, well, juggling

684
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,439
Speaker 1: young motherhood with I call myself a stay at home

685
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: mom entrepreneur because I'm doing the I'm doing too much myself,

686
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: is what happening. Embarrassed to say how much I'm doing

687
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: by myself mom wise, and then trying to also be

688
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: the entrepreneur. But working on the book and juggling the

689
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: podcast and the coaching business has been so so damn challenging,

690
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: and it feels like, you know what books like, it's

691
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: not a money maker before, during, or after cool first

692
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: and foremost the marketing to yes, yeah, but a lot

693
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: of work goes into it. And you know, on the

694
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: business side, I think the energy sapping, the energy draining.

695
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: I've had to pull my foot off of the gas

696
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: in some ways. That has led to like less revenue

697
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: coming in from like the coaching side. Podcasting is like

698
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: relatively stable, but how do you have you ever had

699
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: periods like that in your career where it's like you

700
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: just don't feel like when you're the small business, when

701
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,760
Speaker 1: you are the person at the center of the spoken

702
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: the wheel and you're not you know, operating at one

703
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: hundred percent, and things start to like, I don't know,

704
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 1: wane a little bit. How do you build it back up?

705
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: How do you get oh, you mean, like when who

706
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 2: I Love and Adoor Byron Allen's put the Kebash on

707
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 2: Mark lewy Hill and My's Grio show, and that whole

708
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 2: piece of income goes by the wayside. You mean like that? Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah,

709
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 2: like that happens, and listen, it never feels great. Right,

710
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 2: Let's be totally candid up front, right, But I will

711
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 2: say one thing that helps me personally, Mandy's I always anticipated. Right.

712
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 2: So I've been at this in this format for quite

713
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 2: a while now, and they'll be inevitably these ebbs and

714
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: flows where things that like when I started the year

715
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:15,919
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five at the top of the year,

716
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: there have been a few things that have come on

717
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 2: my plate and it's not even September yet that I

718
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 2: would not have been able to foresee and that have

719
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 2: been additive financially and otherwise, and that has been great.

720
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: Like I had a brief partnership we did a mini

721
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,720
Speaker 2: series with TMZ where I was covering the Shawn colmbs

722
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: Diddy trial alongside Nancy Grace and Mark Garrigos and har

723
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 2: Harvey Levin. That wasn't on my Bingo card in January,

724
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 2: but it came on my Bingo card and I graciously accepted,

725
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 2: and it was great. Great for a bunch of different reasons.

726
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 2: But just like that came about unexpectedly, things go away,

727
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 2: and I guess I would encourage you to try not

728
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: It's about framing, try not to win. Like you say, Okay, so,

729
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 2: because this is sucking so much here, I'm not able

730
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 2: to bring in the same level of revenue with the

731
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 2: coaching thing. Make sure that you are affirmed in the

732
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 2: fact that while whatever you're pouring into the book right

733
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 2: now might not bringing might not be bringing in dollars

734
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 2: and cents next month or even in six months, but

735
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 2: know that it will bring. God wanted me to tell

736
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 2: you this story. So I wrote a book Quiet has

737
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: kept before bet On Black. It's a book called Pretty

738
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 2: Powerful Appearance, Substance and Success. Published it in twenty seventeen

739
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:42,879
Speaker 2: Mandy with a very very small imprint called Vita. Anyways, girl,

740
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: when I tell you, I got an email last week

741
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: from my publisher there Jared, such a sweetheart. He's like,

742
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 2: I got a check for you. What's your best address

743
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,959
Speaker 2: to myth Now I haven't even opened the check yet.

744
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: The check might be five cents. The point is you

745
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 2: never know when God's going to pay it off at

746
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 2: some point in the future, right, like I wasn't expecting.

747
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 2: I never made any money I'm pretty powerful, like you said,

748
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 2: not even one cent because there was no advance, There

749
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 2: was no nothing. Okay, that was a pure marketing tool

750
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: that did allow me to make money keynoting, public speaking, hosting,

751
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 2: and moderating panels. So Pretty Powerful was very good for me,

752
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: but not in a here's a five hundred thousand dollars

753
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 2: check kind of way. Good right, But as I'm managing

754
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 2: new mommyhood, Judge Ebony was on a brief hiatus. But

755
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 2: we're actually starting production again in October. Amen holding Court

756
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 2: is now being the last year we've been independently distributing,

757
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 2: which you know, that is a very different ballgame where

758
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 2: you literally eat what you kill advertiser wise, so without

759
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 2: the comforts of any minimum guarantees or other supports from

760
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 2: network partnership. So that has, you know, looked very different

761
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 2: from an income perspective. But then here comes this, you know,

762
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 2: unexpected gift of a check from Pretty Powerful, a book

763
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 2: I wrote eight years ago. Here comes the unexpected gift

764
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: of the TMZ collaboration. Here comes the unexpected gift of

765
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: a collaboration with Carlos King doing coverage around you know,

766
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 2: important trials of the culture. So I would just encourage

767
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: you to name and honor disappointment and maybe a bit

768
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 2: sadness when things get slimmer, and always hold the space

769
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 2: for the abundance that it really does mean something is

770
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 2: coming now. I can't tell you when it's coming, but

771
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: it is nowday.

772
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 1: I'm so good at that optimism. I'm just like, yes,

773
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: nothing that's for me can miss me. The email. I'm

774
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: just like, there's a surprise waiting for me in my

775
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: email inbox and usual and it always has, you know,

776
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: and I think that's yes, yeah, it's that. It's it's

777
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: it's a law.

778
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 2: It's like the law of reciprocity. Right when something goes away,

779
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 2: something always comes. To Revolt Black News. I worked with

780
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 2: Revolt for many years, first co hosting State of the

781
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:11,439
Speaker 2: Culture with Remy Ma, Joe Budden and Jinks. Great, great time.

782
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 2: We had a great season, was going great, COVID hit

783
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: Boom Show goes Away, Okay, that sucked. We host We

784
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: launched Revolt Black News during the pandemic. Remotely. I was

785
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 2: executive producer and host of that for almost two years,

786
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: which was a great run. But as you know, in

787
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 2: this business, Mandy, these runs we call them runs for

788
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: a reason, you know, whether they're a year or two

789
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 2: or five or ten.

790
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 1: I'm a marathon.

791
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, some are sprints of our marathons, but they're always runs. Right,

792
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 2: Revolt Black News went away. Revolt wanted to center itself

793
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 2: in Atlanta, which they are currently. My dear friend and

794
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: brilliant colleague, Teslin figure Row is now the face of

795
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 2: their Revolt Black News division, doing great work there. The

796
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 2: point is is my time there in that check went away,

797
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 2: minding my business. Now already we had a conversation and

798
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 2: a deal in place, already executed with the Byron Allen

799
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: for Equal Justice with Judge Ebony K. Williams. We had

800
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 2: a year hold for filming just because of the schedule,

801
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 2: because he has all nine of the major judge shows

802
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 2: that are currently on, including Lauren Lake and Judge Mathis.

803
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 2: And it's great. So I was kind of twiddling my

804
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 2: thumbs a little bit, still doing holding court, still right,

805
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 2: you know, still doing, but not in that daily kind

806
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 2: of way. After Remote News went away, Ring Ring Ring,

807
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 2: get a call from Byron Allen. I want to anchor

808
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: a news show because I just bought a black news

809
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 2: channel or what was that was it called I Haven't

810
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 2: Black Juwing Network whatever it was B and C. Yeah,

811
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 2: black news channel, and I needed I need another anchor.

812
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 2: I heard, I heard somebody told me you anchor news.

813
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: Wink wink, So sure, sure, sure, next thing. You know,

814
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 2: That's how the Grio Show came to be. And then

815
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 2: we had a two and a half year daily run.

816
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 2: So you know, it's just you know, one thing going

817
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 2: away so something else can come. It truly, truly is that.

818
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, the tolerance for that is something that you can't

819
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: be taught, and it is definitely that I try to

820
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: tell people and be really transparent about that. You have

821
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: to have such a tolerance for unknown and unplanned and

822
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: unforeseen and lucky and fortune. And I mean I use

823
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: the word lucky lightly because I do believe there's so

824
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: much sowing of seeds that happens. Yeah, I mean, I'm

825
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 1: sure you've experienced those moments of serendipity where it's like

826
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: someone that you met fifteen years ago or that you

827
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: worked with on a project ten years ago. You were

828
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: both you know, very like early on something, and then

829
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: ten years later it's like, oh, we get to collaborate

830
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: and it's a huge opportunity and it's those moments are

831
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 1: really magical.

832
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, but is that luck particant? I wouldn't personally frame

833
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: it as luck, which is why I never even exactly. Yeah,

834
00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 2: that's you were strategic in the best possible way. Sometimes

835
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: strategic is as simple as being a good person.

836
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: Call it like, just don't be an asshole.

837
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 2: Ever, you actually were being a good person, You actually

838
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 2: were able to work with Thus somebody wanting to work

839
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 2: with you again on something else ten fifteen years down

840
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 2: the road. Absolutely.

841
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's by going back to NYBJ and like

842
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 1: being embraced by everyone there. It was just nice. It's like, okay,

843
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: you know you and yeah it has to be like

844
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: it's always genuine. But those connections, I think you let

845
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: your connections run dry and such your own detriment for wealth,

846
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: for opportunities and all that. I'm sure you experienced that.

847
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 1: I mean now that you are a lifelong New Yorker. Yes,

848
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: I don't know. I lost it for me and.

849
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 2: You are yeah, but yeah, but it's your.

850
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: Single momming it. You are living this. You're an entrepreneur.

851
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: You're doing all these different projects. Talk to me about

852
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: your and also we talked about the lack of like

853
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: predictability of the income. Sometimes talk to me about your

854
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: personal finance journey and have you picked up any strategies

855
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: that you still carry it forward to this day to

856
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: give you that sense of like financial stability and independence.

857
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I will tell you my financial picture

858
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 2: today is a blessing, but also one that is the

859
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 2: result of ridding myself of some really bad habits. So

860
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 2: I will say what year twenty seventeen, I was earning

861
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,439
Speaker 2: probably in the top three percent of New Yorkers. Even

862
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: so I was I had a high end. I was

863
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: double dutying it at Fox News Channel and WABC Radio.

864
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 2: This is a lot of people forgot you, that you blinked,

865
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 2: you missed it. I was the first black woman to

866
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 2: host a show daily on WABC Radio here in New York,

867
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: and I hosted it with the ball people Curtis leiwa

868
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 2: it's a great story over drinks anyway. So because I

869
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: was pulling in double and I was, oh, this is

870
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 2: what one life hack that is not even a hack

871
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 2: anymore because it's so well known now, even though not

872
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 2: always well practiced. Multiple streams of income always, always, and

873
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 2: this one I learned from my mother early on, who

874
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 2: was you know, always did something. She was always a businesswoman,

875
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 2: whether it was pushing literally in New York we have

876
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 2: food trucks, but in Charlotte, North Carolina, we had like

877
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 2: push carts of hot dogs and stuff and cotton candy.

878
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 2: It was that, and it was doing hair. It was

879
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 2: doing hair, and it was opening a daycare. It was

880
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 2: opening a daycare and running a semi truck company. Like

881
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 2: it was always at least two, if not three, literal

882
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,439
Speaker 2: significant sources of income coming in because if the people

883
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 2: stopped getting their hair done, the childcare was cutting up

884
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 2: the slack. So that is a fundamental practice for me.

885
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,479
Speaker 2: It's always having multiple streams of income, no matter how

886
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 2: high the income is, and that can be challenging. I

887
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 2: think sometimes people think of multiple stream of income is

888
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 2: code for no income is enough. It is not that

889
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 2: it is. Literally you could be making six hundred thousand

890
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 2: dollars on one income source and continue to have two

891
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 2: or three others because to the point of this whole

892
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 2: conversation we're having, you never know when that goes away

893
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,720
Speaker 2: entirely or goes on hiatus to maybe come back later,

894
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 2: maybe because of this climate we're in. And this is

895
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 2: all industries. This is not just what Mandy and I do, y'all.

896
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 2: This is I know people in education, people in healthcare,

897
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 2: and people in finance who have had their employers come

898
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 2: to them or their partners come to them business partners,

899
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 2: and say, we don't want to let you go, but

900
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 2: we need you to take a pay cut. We don't

901
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 2: want to end the contract. We want to renew, but

902
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 2: we can't renew at that rate. So, you know, decreases

903
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,959
Speaker 2: in the income is a real thing. So being able

904
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 2: to account for that and manage that, for me has

905
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 2: always been about having so many different streams of income.

906
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 2: Even when I was on Real Housewives of New York,

907
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 2: which doesn't pay a lot the first few years anyway,

908
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: you know, it was with them I had really you said, really, Yeah.

909
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: I didn't explain the real housewive. I'm not a real

910
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: housewife like Fan. I will admit that. Okay, I've tried to.

911
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: I've watched a couple of things. I know I could,

912
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: I really could. Real Housewives of Atlanta had a moment.

913
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: This most recent series of New York had a moment too.

914
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: But but what is the what's the benefit. What was

915
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: the biggest benefit of being a real housewife?

916
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 2: Oh, for me, it was the visibility. For me, it

917
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 2: was it was very simple. This is a very simple

918
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: analysis for me. Maybe it was all a business decision.

919
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 2: Let me be very clear. I at my core and

920
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 2: let me no housewife. It's just a none of us none,

921
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 2: None of us have been married on the season at

922
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 2: that Louis Ramote's divorce, I'm divorced. Liam McSweeney was never married.

923
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 2: So it wasn't about that. It's not don't think about

924
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 2: it literally is think of it as a cultural juggernaut,

925
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 2: because that's what it is. The housewives franchise, which now

926
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:12,800
Speaker 2: is going on twenty years old, which is when Orange

927
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: County started almost twenty years ago, and even New York

928
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 2: Star seventeen years ago. This is a cultural juggernaut. Now

929
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 2: it is diminished in its impact and esteemed, but it

930
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 2: is still a thing. And certainly when I was on

931
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,919
Speaker 2: it five years ago, it was very much still a thing.

932
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 2: Like when I was announced as the first black housewife

933
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,359
Speaker 2: of New York City, it absolutely broke the internet. It

934
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 2: was everything.

935
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 1: I remember. Yes, you're the reason I think I started

936
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: to like, try, Yeah, I gotta see the shot.

937
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 2: Even people that hadn't watched New York before said, she

938
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 2: looks like me. I'm going to give it a shot.

939
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 2: It was a disaster. That's another story for another day.

940
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 2: But it still worked for me in this way, and

941
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,320
Speaker 2: so I would still do it all over again tomorrow,

942
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 2: even despite really horrific emotional cost, because I at my

943
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 2: core Mandy am a nerd, will always be a nerd,

944
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 2: have always been a nerd. What I mean by that

945
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 2: professionally is in this media industry, I have always been

946
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: trying to sell a very hard product, which is interest

947
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: in the law in politics. Politics has gotten a little sexier,

948
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 2: but it still has challenge. It's never gonna sell like

949
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 2: a podcast about sex is gonna sell. It's never gonna

950
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 2: sell like a show about fashion it is gonna sell.

951
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 2: It's never gonna sell like something about music is gonna sell. Right,

952
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 2: So I'm trying to sell something in a format which

953
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 2: is television, radio, podcast, book, what have you, that is

954
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 2: not the sexiest thing on the marketplace. So I needed

955
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 2: something sexy. I needed something that was just gonna get

956
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 2: me in front like of a massive audience, and also

957
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 2: I was coming off of a five year stint at

958
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 2: Fox News Channel. Now if you ever actually saw me

959
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 2: on Fox News Channel, you will only applaud and celebrate

960
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 2: incredible work that I did at that network in a

961
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 2: very hostile environment.

962
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: God bless.

963
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 2: But the reality is, and I understand it. I'm not

964
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 2: naive to any of it. How many people in a

965
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 2: mainstream and black culture sense, or mainstream culture in general

966
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 2: are sitting around watching Fox News Not very many. Even so,

967
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 2: I kind of had a bunch of niche audiences that

968
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 2: were familiar with me, Mandy. I had a Fox News following,

969
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,919
Speaker 2: I had a breakfast club following. That's cool. I had,

970
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,879
Speaker 2: you know, people that kind of knew me from this

971
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 2: or that or this or that. But I never had

972
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 2: like a crazy broad mainstream reach. And Bravo was the

973
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 2: perfect vehicle to be able to provide that because overnight

974
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 2: I became somebody that was much better known than.

975
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: Before, which allows you to tell your to really expend

976
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 1: your pow to.

977
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 2: Tell all the other tentacles, I mean, perfect proof of

978
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 2: concept of this. I haven't been on Real Housewives in

979
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 2: five years, but when I was pregnant with baby Liberty

980
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 2: and wanted to leverage my position as a public person

981
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: to advocate around the power and beauty of single motherhood

982
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 2: by choice as one of many options for Black women

983
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 2: and women generally to become mothers on their own terms.

984
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 2: Me and me may reeing, Hey, so and so and

985
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 2: so at People magazine. I have these great maternity photos,

986
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 2: and I have a pregnancy announcement interested being done in

987
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 2: the printed copy like cake. That doesn't happen. If I

988
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 2: was never a housewife, Mandy, I could have been hosting

989
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 2: the best show on PBS five nights a week. It

990
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 2: doesn't get the play and that's unfortunate.

991
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: I don't know my han'sure and the recognition the platform.

992
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 2: And thus, yes, it was. It was a shortcut. It

993
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 2: was a cheat sheet, if you will, to leveraging exposure.

994
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 1: At a big cost. You said, emotions.

995
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 2: It was an enormous emotional costs, phychological and ecological, emotional,

996
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:15,240
Speaker 2: all the things.

997
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, was it the Was there like major backlash and

998
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: on like social media from viewers or was.

999
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 2: It just that that was one thing and I'm not

1000
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 2: going to say it was insignificant, But what was much

1001
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 2: more taxing were the was the actual experience of all

1002
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 2: of the actual anti blackness that was occurring while we

1003
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 2: were filming, and then while we aired, and then after

1004
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 2: we aired. You know, we're still the only Housewives series

1005
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 2: ever that never had a reunion. And that was so

1006
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 2: obviously because that is just how radioactive my mere presence

1007
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 2: and my insistence was.

1008
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty twenty is when we want.

1009
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 2: It aired in twenty twenty point and now here we

1010
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 2: are five years later, and most would say that the

1011
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 2: franchise never recovered, like you know, like you said, he

1012
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 2: tried to have a reboot, but they're on Paul because

1013
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 2: like for me, it's to cite one of the most

1014
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 2: famous housewives, I think the most famous Housewife ever, Needy Leaks.

1015
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 2: You never win when you play dirty. You never win

1016
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 2: when you play dirty. And because everybody involved in the

1017
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 2: creation of that show was so utterly ill equipped, just

1018
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 2: utterly lacked the cultural competency to manage the dynamics as

1019
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 2: they related to race and identity on that show, with

1020
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 2: that cast and then ultimately with their own audience, it

1021
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 2: was horrendous and there was no repentance for that, There

1022
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 2: was no accountability for that. And so when the answer

1023
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 2: just becomes fire, everybody hire all new people. And let's

1024
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 2: try it again in that too, doesn't really work in

1025
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 2: the way that it was supposed to, because you've not

1026
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 2: you just built a house over a demoed existence. You

1027
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 2: didn't reset the foundation, you didn't clean the bones, you

1028
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 2: didn't do an autopsy or restructure. You just built over

1029
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 2: a shitty foundation. And I thought that was actually very

1030
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 2: unfair to the new ladies, to the new cast members.

1031
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm well, I'm I mean, I'm I'm sorry. I

1032
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 1: think there were so many It was hard enough being

1033
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: in those like living through those years, you know, and

1034
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: to do it on public platform. Then to not feel

1035
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 1: supported by, you know, this juggernaut, this institution that was

1036
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: using you as much as you were, you know, benefiting

1037
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 1: from that, they also were using you like you were

1038
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 1: giving them, you know, you were the start.

1039
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,479
Speaker 2: Giving them credibility, right, I was supposed to be giving them. Look,

1040
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 2: look how inclusive we finally are after thirteen years of

1041
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 2: shooting a show in the most diverse cultural city in America,

1042
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 2: twenty five percent black and twenty six percent Latina. We're

1043
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 2: gonna put this black woman on this show, and we're

1044
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 2: gonna think it's gonna be great TV because we expect chaos,

1045
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 2: But I don't know that they were prepared for as

1046
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 2: rooted in anti blackness as the chaos would ensue. I

1047
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 2: think that was the issue, and for that I don't

1048
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 2: fault them. I want to be clear, Mandy. I can

1049
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 2: believe that they didn't anticipate that. But once you saw

1050
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 2: it and once it was among us, we have to

1051
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 2: address it. And that was never done.

1052
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: Have you watched the new iteration the New York.

1053
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 2: No, No, I'll be and I always have been very

1054
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 2: can I hold entirely too much trauma around the whole experience.

1055
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 2: It actually ruined my whole ability, which is not that serious.

1056
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 2: But I can't watch any of the housewife shows at

1057
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 2: all anymore.

1058
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 1: Okay, not even Bosam. She seems to be killing it, Beverly.

1059
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure she is.

1060
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: Have you watched a little bit. It's so fucking toxic.

1061
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: I just they have one black housewife and she's so

1062
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: toxic and the whole thing. I'm just like, once, you know,

1063
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 1: I'm glad you off that show, Aby, I know it

1064
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 1: was Yeah, go ahead, I said no.

1065
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 2: Once you know how the sausage is made, and you

1066
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 2: know the cost, the true cost of the sausage, it's

1067
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 2: not appealing anymore.

1068
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: The baby Liberty in another seventeen eighteen years wants to

1069
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: go on Love Island or some other reality show. What's

1070
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 1: Mama saying?

1071
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm raising going to be very autonomous, but what

1072
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 2: she will know is the full tea, So she will

1073
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 2: be making a very informed decision. But she gets to

1074
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 2: be a grown up and make her decisions, but she

1075
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 2: will be making an informed one.

1076
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 1: Right, I mean by then, shit, who knows what the

1077
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 1: reality TV scape will be like? It all be AI generated.

1078
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, So tell me.

1079
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: You're speaking to BA fan right now, and you have

1080
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 1: things that are percolating and cooking right now? Do you

1081
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 1: want us all to go pick up your paperback? What

1082
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: do you need from us? How can we support?

1083
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 2: I can you support? I want you to pick up

1084
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 2: the paperback, but I I truly want you to pick

1085
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 2: up the paperback. Bet the good news about being black

1086
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 2: in America for your own service in this moment. So

1087
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 2: one of the things when you pick up this paperback,

1088
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 2: which you're all gonna do, you'll see the cover is

1089
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 2: the palette is red, white and blue on a black background.

1090
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 2: This too, is by design for any BA fam listening

1091
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 2: to this right now that is likely feeling disheartened, probably devastated,

1092
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 2: on the verge of erased and diminished, disrespected, and maybe

1093
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 2: in true doubt around positioning and longevity in this environment.

1094
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 2: Getting bet on Black the good news about being Black

1095
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 2: in America today is one of the best things you

1096
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,240
Speaker 2: can do for yourself in this moment, because think of

1097
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 2: the subtext, the subtitle rather the good news about being black.

1098
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:00,919
Speaker 2: There is I am here to y'all be a fan.

1099
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 2: There is still tremendous good news about being black, even

1100
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 2: in America, and it's hard. I think it's very hard

1101
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 2: for a lot of people to feel like that in

1102
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 2: this moment, Mandy. And that is exactly why I wrote

1103
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 2: this book. Even when I wrote the book, and what

1104
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 2: I know is that the book becomes evergreen in this

1105
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 2: way because this cyclical nature of this feeling that most

1106
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 2: of us are feeling now, but we felt it before

1107
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 2: and we'll likely feel it again. And this is why

1108
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 2: having this book on your shelf is so important, because

1109
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 2: you can pick it up, you can read a chapter

1110
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: or two, or all of it pop the audio book,

1111
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 2: which of course I read on you do.

1112
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 1: I bet you're great. I bet it's great. I gotta

1113
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 1: get that.

1114
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just having that in your ear, having that

1115
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 2: on your mind in this moment is more important now

1116
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 2: than ever. We got to remember the good news about

1117
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 2: who we are and whose we are.

1118
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:00,040
Speaker 1: Amazing, and that's holding court, coming back, holding.

1119
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 2: It's absolutely coming back.

1120
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 1: You sound like everybody covering did, and you covered the

1121
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 1: Ditty trial a little bit.

1122
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 2: You sound you sound like all of my just gruntled jurors, Mandy,

1123
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:09,439
Speaker 2: it is coming back.

1124
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 1: Saying like legal legal news influenzers. I feel like I

1125
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: had a huge I don't know, they always did. When

1126
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 1: there's it's a big case, the Blake Lively thing and

1127
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 1: the Diddy thing, and I'm like a voice like yours

1128
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: and a mind like yours, I'm just like, yeah, i'd

1129
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 1: be in the mix.

1130
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's the thing. Thankfully, like the TMZ opportunity and

1131
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 2: the Carlos King opportunity allowed me to be in the mix.

1132
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 2: Afford really the word is afforded me to be in

1133
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:33,919
Speaker 2: the mix, because while I love being in the mix,

1134
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 2: I'm never in the mix for free. Now, I guess that,

1135
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 2: y'all cut I never ever in the mix for fucking free. Nope,

1136
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 2: don't do it. So unless there's a soap company, a

1137
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 2: plant company looking around my house girl, a paper towel

1138
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 2: company that can support me being in the mix. Pampers, Pampers, Formula,

1139
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:09,600
Speaker 2: Little Spoon, what hello. Unless they're supporting me in the mix,

1140
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 2: I will not be in the mixture. You're gonna have

1141
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 2: to find somebody else in the mix. And I say

1142
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 2: that respectfully to all the influencers. I am not an influencer.

1143
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 2: I'm a businesswoman, as I've said before, so holding Court

1144
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 2: will be back all of that to say this fall

1145
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 2: for sure. But as we speak in real time, I

1146
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 2: am finalizing conversations with potential partners. One of them will

1147
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 2: work or we will continue to operate independently.

1148
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:40,920
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I am excited because I know you're not

1149
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 1: just no influencer, and I'm just like, no, you're grown up.

1150
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 1: We need a grown up in that room. I've grown

1151
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: up in that room.

1152
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 2: And I'm humbled by that. I'm honored by that. But

1153
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 2: you feel me, it must.

1154
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: Any feeling you, Yeah, and it doesn't feel like I mean,

1155
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 1: I don't know what your experience has been, but like

1156
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 1: it's been a weird year for brands and marketing budgets

1157
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 1: and it's whatever.

1158
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 2: It's the wild Wall West out here, even for those

1159
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 2: of us who have won the end of because that's

1160
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 2: the other thing. And I'll tell BA audience this on

1161
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 2: my way out. And Denzel talks about this all. First

1162
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 2: of all, who is not living for Uncle Denzel's press.

1163
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 1: Tours like they I have so many clips to say

1164
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 1: that people send me up save and go watch it.

1165
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 2: They're all so iconic, right anyway, But Denzel talks about this,

1166
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 2: and this is a two time Oscar winner, saying the awards,

1167
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 2: the accolades, they're cool, they're great, but the reward is

1168
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 2: from above, right, And that is also true from a

1169
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 2: business posture, one would think, if you didn't know any better,

1170
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 2: that once you win the hardware, once you whether whatever

1171
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 2: it is, the Emmy, the NAACP Image Award, the Webbee, whatever,

1172
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 2: the gray See whatever, surely now all of the deals

1173
01:05:55,280 --> 01:06:00,200
Speaker 2: will come. Surely, now that there's no more question about

1174
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 2: the editorial content, the popularity or sustainability, that surely this

1175
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 2: will unlock the magic gates of the cash flow. And

1176
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 2: I'm here to tell you that's not true. I'm here

1177
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 2: to tell you that's not true. And Denzel tells you

1178
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 2: better than I can, but on a more mid tier level,

1179
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 2: I'm here to tell you it's not true. So you

1180
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 2: have to really do what you do at the level

1181
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 2: that you do it for true, true, true reasons, the

1182
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 2: truest of pure intentionality. Because if you're waiting on the

1183
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 2: things to validate and reward, you will be waiting. The

1184
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 2: reward truly must come from above.

1185
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 1: Well, Ebany K. Williams, thank you so much for sharing

1186
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:54,000
Speaker 1: your light and your your spice and your power with

1187
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 1: Brown Ambition. I can't wait to I can't wait for

1188
01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 1: ba Fam when you buy your paperback, take a little picture. Yeah, guys,

1189
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 1: we can share it because Beavan buys some books.

1190
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 2: Okay, Oh, and they're just enough to read one thing.

1191
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 2: Anybody who has read bet On Black or listened to

1192
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 2: it on the audio, they just really same thing with

1193
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 2: Holding Court. They love it. It's like this was the

1194
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 2: thing I didn't know I needed it, but now I

1195
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 2: got to have it. So I'm actually excited for any

1196
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 2: first time.

1197
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: Really did your big one? You didn't do another one?

1198
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 1: You're talking to Krashwan about next book?

1199
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 2: Get off my line, Mandy, why a mommy?

1200
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 1: You know?

1201
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 2: So you know these things are always in the pipeline.

1202
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 2: But as you know, it's so. But these books are

1203
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 2: heavy books. These books are heavy lifts. So you know,

1204
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 2: it's it's much like Lil Wayne says about his.

1205
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 1: Carter Nurse Ghost Trader.

1206
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 2: It's like Lil Wayne says about the Carters. Everything is

1207
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 2: not a Carter, right, you know, and he really he

1208
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 2: could have kept this last Carter and I love Lil

1209
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 2: Wayne down. Okay, so we must, we must wait for

1210
01:07:56,160 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 2: the genius to fully ripe it and then of course

1211
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 2: there will be another book at the right time.

1212
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 1: All right, You're going to March's Vineyard like everybody else, Black.

1213
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 2: And No again again, what did I say, I'm not

1214
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 2: going to be a no mix Mandy Free?

1215
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 1: Oh right, okay, because then we quick to send you

1216
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 1: an invite. But those prices for.

1217
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 2: Where is the Chick? Love you?

1218
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 1: All right? Thank you so much? All right, Va Fam,

1219
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 1: until next time, okay, Va Fam, thank you so much

1220
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: for listening to this week's show. I want to shout

1221
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 1: out to our production team, Courtney, our editor, Carla, our

1222
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 1: fearless leader for idea to launch productions. I want to

1223
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 1: shout out my assistant Lauda Escalante and Cameron McNair for

1224
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 1: helping me put the show together. It is not a

1225
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 1: one person project, as much as I have tried to

1226
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:59,599
Speaker 1: make it so these past ten years, I need help, y'all,

1227
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 1: and thank goodness I've been able to put this team

1228
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 1: around me to support me on this journey. And to y'all,

1229
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: ba fam, I love you so so so so much.

1230
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 1: Please rate, review, subscribe, Make sure you sign up to

1231
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 1: the newsletter to get all the latest updates on upcoming episodes,

1232
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 1: our ten year anniversary celebrations to come, and until next time,

1233
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:30,680
Speaker 1: talk to you soon via bye