1 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 2 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policymakers, and performers, to 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions change 4 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influence their work. This week, we're 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: doing something different. A couple of months back, I had 6 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: the great honor of talking with Dustin Hoffman as part 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: of the Turner Classic Movie Film Festival in Hollywood. At 8 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: the festival, we screen some of the greatest films of 9 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: all time, and much of Dustin Hoffman's work fits that description. 10 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: We selected Lenny, the nineteen seventy four film in which 11 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: Hoffman portrays the groundbreaking but troubled comedian and social critic 12 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: Lenny Bruce, who had died eight years prior of a 13 00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: drug overdose while battling ongoing obscenity charges. We decided to 14 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: show this movie about Lenny Bruce at eleven thirty in 15 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: the morning. We're gonna show TUTSI at midnight. We thought 16 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 1: we mixed it up a bit here at the TCM. 17 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: Customer and Lenny, shot in black and white by director 18 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: Bob Fossey, was nominated for six Oscars, including Best Picture, 19 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: Best Director for Fossey, Best Actress for Valerie Paine, and 20 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: Best Actor for Dustin Hoffman. We're all the same schmuck, 21 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: and it does cracks me up that we try so 22 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: desperately to be unique when we're all the same cat 23 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: eyes and Howard Kennedy Johnson me you every cat has 24 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: got that one chick really busted up his hand. I'm 25 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: kind of speechless whenever I see this film. I've seen 26 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: it a lot, which that doesn't come in handy when 27 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: you have to interview somebody after the film to be 28 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: manduid speechless. But I don't want to labor this too much, 29 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: but you know, this is a movie actor who is 30 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: un any other of the last seventy five years. You know, 31 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: there's a lot of great film stars, and there's a 32 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: lot of great actors working, especially through the sixties and 33 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: the seventies and the eighties and on beyond that, and 34 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: but few of them took the chances to become a 35 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: different person so many times in films and transform themselves physically, emotionally, psychologically, 36 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: um their voice, you know, to inhabit a character. I 37 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: don't think there's another actor alive in the film business 38 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: in the last several years, who transformed themselves again and again, 39 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: and then would play something very close to themselves, their 40 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: own speech, their own behavior, perhaps their voice, and all 41 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: the President's men and in Cramer versus Kramer. Uh but 42 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: you know, please, um, but I just want to say 43 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: that this is a person I've admired on the deepest 44 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: level for a long long time, and it's my great 45 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: pleasure to ask you to join me and welcoming Dustin Hoffmann. Yeah. Great, 46 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: you're two kinds. M Thank you when you make films 47 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: like this, I mean you've worked You've made so many 48 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: great films and worked with so many great directors. Was 49 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: Fosse some of them? Was out a goal for you 50 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: too to work with Fosse? No, how was it to 51 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: work with Fossey? Tough? Tough, tough? Uh. Bob was a 52 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: originally a choreographer. Her and choreographers don't have dancers coming 53 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: up to them saying, what's my motivation? They dances do 54 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: what they're told. You know. He tried to be in 55 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: a sense to collaborate, but it was tough for him 56 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: and it was tough for me. We had a tough time. 57 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: Did you like to do a lot of takes. Yes, 58 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: both of us did the script. I thought it was problematic, 59 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: so I wasn't that anxious to do it. We went 60 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: into rehearsal with the principal actors, with the wonderful Valerie 61 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: Paene extraordinary performance and was Valerie, myself and you know, 62 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: Jane Minor and I think Stanley Beck were in New 63 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: York in the room and it's going rough the rehearsal, 64 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: and after five days we started Monday. After five days, 65 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: we're rehearsing routines, rehearsing scenes, and on Friday, Bob Fosse says, 66 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: we don't have a movie. We don't have a script. 67 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: See on Monday the reverse two weeks or three weeks, 68 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: and we thought it was gonna be shelved when Hallomen 69 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: came back Monday and he says, I solved it, and 70 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: he interspersed it. He says, I'm going to intersperse it 71 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: with interviews because the scenes there's no connective tissue to them, 72 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: they don't connect. So Stanley Beck, who was wonderful and 73 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: at my manager, Valerie Pete, thank you. Uh uh. Stanley 74 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: and I were close friends since we were beginning actors. 75 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: Uh and Valerie Preen and Jan Minor are going. I 76 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: think that's all it is, isn't Those three are going 77 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: to be interviewed throughout the movie and He'll and I'll 78 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: have an easier time of shooting it. By the way, 79 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: that's Bob Fossey asking the questions. Now, when when you 80 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: make a film like this and there, or any of 81 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: the films you've made, I should say, do you have 82 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: any kind of the unique relationship for a specific relationship 83 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: with the cinematographer Surtease. This film was nominated for six 84 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: Academy Awards and in every one of the major categories 85 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,679 Speaker 1: you would imagine Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, Best Actress, 86 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: Best Screenplay, and cinematography for Surtees, who made his reputation 87 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: shooting a lot of Clint Eastwoods films for many, many years. 88 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: Bob Surtees was one of the great cinematographers Robert Surtees. 89 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: He was the cinematographer the graduate Bruce is a son 90 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: and son. Yes, we were going with the father and 91 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: son ten And when you shoot a film, do you 92 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: have a specific relationship with cinematographers when you make a film? 93 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: Or no, No, I don't uh, I don't want to know. Uh. 94 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: Where the cameras. In terms of UH, I do ask 95 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: about lenses sometimes if I want my hands to do something, 96 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: and I say, where are you cutting? Where's your bottom frame? 97 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: Because if if it's here, also i'd have to have 98 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: my hands up here to have it in the shot. 99 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: Other than that, I don't really want to know. It's 100 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: interesting that you say that, Alec, because one of the 101 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: things I objected to with with Bob is that he 102 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: posed me. And when you see it, it's gorgeous. So 103 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: he was right. I was wrong, but you know i'd 104 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: be up there, and I worked so hard on these routines. Uh. 105 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: I had never seen Lennie Bruce. Bob had never seen 106 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: Lennie Bruce. Mike Nichols, who I talked to before I 107 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: did it, because he had done the graduate. He and 108 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: Elaine May were acting upstairs on Sunset Boulevard was it 109 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: called a duplex or something a nightclub, and Lenny Bruce 110 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: was downstairs, and in between their acts they would come 111 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: downstairs and watch Bruce because no comedian, they said, would 112 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: do a whole show improvising. You know, sometimes you do 113 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: two minutes, three minutes, and the rest is your is 114 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: your stuff. But Lenny would come out and not know 115 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: what he was going to say. I think the only 116 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: who comedians I know since Lenny that that do that 117 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: one was Robbed Mumbles Robin Williams, and the other one 118 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: was a wonderful Billy Connolly, and neither of them many 119 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: times would just they would just go uh and that 120 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: that takes a lot. But what was the question? Um 121 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: the sorry? We're talking about cinematographers and oh and I 122 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: worked hard. I got the thirty three rpm s that 123 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: Lenny had made us what we called him that we 124 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: didn't call them finals, and I'd lay down on the 125 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: floor and I would play. I had three months. I 126 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: had about three months, and I did every you know. 127 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: I wrote down longhand every single line he said in 128 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: all the records, and he even the ones he did over, 129 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: he would always deviate and I would write them down. 130 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: And then I would go to Bob Fossie and I'd say, geez, 131 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: I like what he did here, because he used these 132 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: sentences or he used that, and I was promised. And 133 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: I think that's what I got so upset about, that 134 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: I would be able to shoot it. We were going 135 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: to shoot it. And I think that's what Bob wanted. 136 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: We were going to shoot it in different clubs in 137 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: Florida and with live audiences, and that's what I wanted. 138 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: I want to be able to really feel like I'm 139 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: doing it with the real audience. And he'll have whatever, 140 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: three or four cameras at once. He agreed, and that's 141 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: what we were supposed to do. And then it's probably 142 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: money wouldn't allow it. So it was quite laborious sometimes 143 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: to do these routines over and over again, and he 144 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 1: would tilt the camera, he would go, He'd be like, 145 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: where you are and I'd be on the stage. He said, okay, 146 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: now look a little bit this way, and I'll look up, 147 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: now look down, Okay, now do the routine from here 148 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: to here. And you know, it kind of broke my 149 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: heart because I was trying to be the guy. You know, Foster. 150 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: It was a great, great artist. And uh, it's funny 151 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: because I just saw a film recently with that Alfred Hitchcock, 152 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: directed with Carrie Grant, and uh. Carry Grant said he 153 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: had never worked with Hitchcock again after the first picture 154 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: because they didn't get along, because Hitchcock didn't like to collaborate. 155 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: But then they made up and they made more movies, 156 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: and that Lenny Bruce was not someone you had been 157 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: a fan of or had a big awareness of before them. 158 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: You no, No, I just I was in New York. 159 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: I just never saw him. We couldn't have uh, you know, 160 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: I mean before I was successful. We couldn't afford to 161 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 1: go to nightclubs, you know. They it was expensive. And uh, 162 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: I love the jazz is what's so extorting? It was 163 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: next to you. Jazz never dates. Jazz is the same 164 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: now as it was that. It's like god ut to score? 165 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: Oh and uh and I had time. No, I didn't. 166 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 1: I had never seen him. I had never seen I 167 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: don't think any comedian. I didn't go to nightclubs much. 168 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: And I went out to l A because they said. 169 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: Someone said to me, if you want to know Lenny Bruce, Uh, 170 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: you gotta go see Sally mar his mother, who was alive. 171 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: And I went. She was very friendly. Uh. She introduced 172 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: me to one of his best friends who used to 173 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: shoot up with and he in turn introduced me to 174 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: friends at Lenny And I had a tape recorder, you know, 175 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: like a wallet, not a walan is like a pearl 176 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: tape recorder, and I taped everything, and she says, you 177 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: want to go to Vegas because they're all They're all 178 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: his friend, Buddy Hackett other people. And I said, oh 179 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: my god, yes, And I was taking all these notes. 180 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: It was the best time of research I've ever had. 181 00:11:54,880 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: They all said the same thing. Uh, except Buddy Hackett. Um. 182 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: They said, you know, you know Broadway Danny Rose thing, 183 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: will you allen? Did you know? And they used to 184 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: get together, the comedians, Lenny and these guys when they 185 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: were you know certainly what it was. I don't know 186 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: Cantor's or And they said they'd sit around do what 187 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: they did and brow it down, you know, tell jokes. 188 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: And I staidly look around, and he was always very quiet. 189 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: And suddenly he's gone, because he wasn't shy guy. And 190 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: he's gone, and they look around. I don't know where 191 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: he is. And then they find him in the kitchen 192 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: talking to the people that work in the kitchen to help. 193 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: He loved to just talk to the people and and 194 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 1: ask questions and find out stuff. I think he originally 195 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: this is the stuff I had heard. They kind of 196 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: say it in the movie. The musicians were more important 197 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: to him than the audience, because when you do show 198 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: after show after show. He if you noticed the musicians, 199 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: they're always sitting like that, you know, because they ing 200 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: with them all chance of a Von Monroe and uh 201 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: and Lenny uh Len. He felt that if he could 202 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: crack up the musicians, then he was getting somewhere. I 203 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: think he wanted to be in Hollywood. We wanted to 204 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: be an actor. Also, I had heard you shot this 205 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: movie where we shot a lot of it in Florida. 206 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: The nightclubs, the stage work. Yeah, one nightclub. Basically, I 207 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: think the scene when we were sitting next to each other, 208 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: the scene up there where I'm in my raincoat and 209 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: use Yes. When I came back after my three months, 210 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: I had all this stuff to give Bob. You gotta 211 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: put this in. You gotta put that in. You gotta 212 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: put that. And the one thing that he kept was 213 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: that scene. And the reason he did is when I 214 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: was memorizing, it wasn't then. You know, this is before 215 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: the kind of media. You know, you had cell phones 216 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: and all the texting. Some guy heard I was doing 217 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: the movie and he had been a student somewhere in Chicago, 218 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: and he sent me found out my business address in 219 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: New York, and he sent me a cassette and I 220 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: played it word for word. It's that scene. And I 221 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: got piste off at Bob because when he shot the 222 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: Master from upstairs, right in the back, and when I 223 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: saw it, I said, he didn't cut in. You didn't 224 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: cut in? He says, no, So that's eight minutes, you know, 225 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: being up there, just in one shot, and again he 226 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: was he was right. Uh, it's nice of you to 227 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: admit that. Actually, it's very generous. I've met a lot 228 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: of stuff forty years later. But but do you think 229 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: do you think in your I mean, obviously you're someone 230 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: who when you I mean, I don't believe anything I read. 231 00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: But I mean, but but involved I try to minimize 232 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: that in my life of the time. But but the 233 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: but but for you, obviously you know, very fastidious and 234 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: very very lots of questions and lots of seeking and 235 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: so forth in the work you were doing. And what 236 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: do you think that comes from in terms of all 237 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: the films you've made from Graduate on into Cowboy and 238 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: everything like that, where you just seem so, what's the 239 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: word I mean, you're so Jewish? Is that in I'll 240 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: convert If that's it's that simple. I'm gonna convert tomorrow. 241 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: That's what's gonna get me into your strateusy. But the but, but, 242 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: but the thing is you you just seem like you 243 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: always have something to prove a lot of people got 244 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: where you got and they did what you did, and 245 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: you scored with these performances and the originality. But then 246 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: you keep going and you still feel like you have 247 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: Did you feel that way? You still have something to 248 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: prove again and again and again? What drove you? I 249 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: guess the same thing that still drives me. Kobe Bryant 250 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: was interviewed recently. It was before he had a step 251 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: out for the season, because he heard himself. I saw 252 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: the interview and I wrote it down. I told my son, 253 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: Jake was basketball, same question. You know, all these years 254 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: of great basketball playing and he still spend so much 255 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: time practicing and playing whatever. Why? And he said, I 256 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: guess for the challenge of every day. It's beautiful, sons. 257 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: And I have only one slight personal connection to Lenny 258 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: Bruce and that and that was that Marvin Worth was 259 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: a dear friend. He died producer. He produced the stem 260 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: he produced to Malcolm X with Spikey, produced a lot 261 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: of good and he was Bruce's manager, and Marvin Worthy 262 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: was from Brooklyn and his wife Jo never from Brooklyn. 263 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: And he had the one of the heaviest New York 264 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: accents I've never heard in my life. His voice was 265 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: down here. He had a very heavy accent like this. 266 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: And he said to me, I'm gonna revive Letty on Broadway, 267 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: and I want you to do play Letty. I go, 268 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: what and he said, uh, he goes. I got a 269 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: thousand hours of tapes of Lenny. I got thought, Julian Barry, 270 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: We've got so much material and Lenny's he said, there's 271 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: so much stuff we could put in there. I don't 272 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: worry about that. It's all gonna work like a charm. 273 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: And I go and he goes, and your Dusty, he 274 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: called you Dusty. Dusty's not the only one who could 275 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: play that pot. By the way, He's got the only 276 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: person who could play that part. I'm like, uh huh, Sarah. 277 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: And he goes, and he goes, he goes, and I go, 278 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: but what about the other thing? He goes, one other thing? 279 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: What about the other thing? He was one other thing, 280 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: one other thing. One of the things. I go, I'm 281 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: not Jewish, he said, You're from Long Island, right, I said, yeah, 282 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: you go your hand, you're half way there. The rest 283 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: of the will take care of himself. O that and 284 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 1: he would have been wonderful. But when you did this film, 285 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: how involved in your films were you before? Then later 286 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,360 Speaker 1: in the casting? Oh, I have to tell you. I'm 287 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: glad you're asking me. Another example of the Fosse's genius, uh, 288 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: is that I met Honey Bruce. Uh and uh uh? 289 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: Which came first? I met? He cast Valerie Parrain before 290 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: he met Honey Bruce, and then he met her, and 291 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,959 Speaker 1: then I met her we you know, not together. And 292 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: I couldn't believe Honey Bruce that Valerie was the reincarnation 293 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: of Honey Bruce. Literally, I mean it could have been 294 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: like mother and daughter. I was and I said, Bob, 295 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: you had to have met the Honey Bruce before you 296 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: cast Valeri says no, it was just this intuition. I 297 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with any of the casting except 298 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: except Stanley. He was nice enough to have Stanley in 299 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: it for my manager and all my films. Uh. Yeah, 300 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: I mean the graduate. They've been trying for two years 301 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: to cast it, and Katherine Ross and myself were the 302 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: last two two screen test after two years, and I 303 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: heard that they were sitting in the screen room not 304 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: particularly excited about our screen test, and I said, well, 305 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: either we go with them or we don't do it. 306 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: And it was that kind of a that they said 307 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: that in interviews. I think Larry Terman said that the 308 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: producer and uh Midnight Cowboy, uh he uh he cast Uh, 309 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: he didn't cast John Floyd. He cast some someone else 310 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: and they wouldn't let him out of his contract. And 311 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: after that happened, I said, please see my friend John Voyd. 312 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: We weren't close friends when we've been off for all 313 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: way together. And he says no. John Sessinger said he 314 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: read for it and he doesn't have that Texas accent. 315 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: He was from Yonkers. I said, yeah, but he's an actor. 316 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: He can get it, you know. And John immediately went 317 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,239 Speaker 1: down to Texas forgot where with the tape recorder and 318 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: spent whatever time and came back and and read for 319 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: it and he got the part. But he was second choice. 320 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: Kate Jackson was the first choice for Cramer versus Kramer. 321 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: She was in Charlie's Angels and they were saying, oh, 322 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: the film will pay back itself before we started shooting, 323 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: because they were so popular. And then the studio wouldn't 324 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,719 Speaker 1: let her out. So I kept telling them about this 325 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: Meryl Streep. I had heard about it, ah, and they 326 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: saw and they saw her. So there's been a few 327 00:20:55,400 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: I've suggested, I've I've never demanded or you know, I don't. 328 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,959 Speaker 1: I don't think that works actually, unless you're directing or producing. Well, 329 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: some people, there's some people they have these approvals of 330 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: casting and they and they utilize that in whatever way. 331 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: And those are the people who they just don't get involved. 332 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: They just like they just let it that all take 333 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: care of itself, and the it doesn't really change what 334 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: they do. You know, Devlent Hackman and I knew each 335 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: other on the early days. They're much older and and uh, 336 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: we never worked together. And suddenly I'm doing this thing. 337 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: A few years ago. We're shooting in New Orleans a 338 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: runaway jury and I have a I think a supporting 339 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: part and Gene Hackman has a leading part. And the 340 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: director finds out that we knew each other. We went 341 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: to the past, seen the playhouse together to kicked out 342 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: after three months, they're not having any talent and h 343 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: oh my god, you guys know each other for all 344 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: those time, dirty years. Yeah, we gotta do a scene. 345 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: So they wrote a scene. It's it's one of the 346 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: last scenes in the movie. Takes place in a public bathroom. 347 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: It's like an eight page dialogue scene. And afterwards, it 348 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: was the last thing I shot the movie. It's over, 349 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,479 Speaker 1: and Gane and I say, let's go out and get drunk. 350 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: And we go to an Italian restaurant in New Orleans 351 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: and we're getting drunk and Hackman says, were you scared? 352 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: I said, I was so scared. Man, I thought I'm 353 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: gonna I'm going to forget my lines. He said he 354 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: felt exactly the same way. You know, because you are 355 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: what you are at the beginning, you don't really change. 356 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 1: We were unemployee actors for ten years, and he said 357 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: to me, and one of the great things ever said. 358 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: We were just close to each other. He says, do 359 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: you feel the same way I do after you finish 360 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: a movie? And he probably made a hundred twenty movies. 361 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: I said, what do you feel like You'll never work again? 362 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: Of course, every single time that that's it. After five 363 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,959 Speaker 1: decades of consistently winning roles, every actor dreams of Hoffman's 364 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: years of joblessness remain charming. His latest film, The Program 365 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: About Lance Armstrong, will be released later this year. Listen 366 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: to other episodes of Here's the Thing in our archives, 367 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,239 Speaker 1: like my conversation with Dick Cavitt, whose career as an 368 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: iconic talk show host includes a TV interview with hot 369 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: young newcomer Dustin Hoffman, fresh off his film The Graduate, 370 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: the tape of which may or may not exist. There 371 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: are several several versions of what really happened. I just 372 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: remember being told one day, Dick, they're going to either 373 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: reuse the tapes or race them or jump them. When 374 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: you see what tapes that once to the ABC show 375 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: and you can have them if you want to for 376 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: sixty dollars. And I thought, well that's a ludicrous amount 377 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: of money. Yeah. Take a listen at Here's the Thing 378 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to 379 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: Here's the Thing Today, recorded live at the Egyptian Theater 380 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: in Hollywood as part of the Turner Classic Movie Film Festival. 381 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: Dustin Hoffman has been nominated for the Oscar for Best 382 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 1: Actor seven times. He's won the award twice. Actors Strive 383 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: for depth and range in their work. Hoffman makes this 384 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: appear effortless. There's obviously roles you played, like Cramer versus 385 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: Cramer and all the President's men, and you seem it's, 386 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: I don't know what word to use. It seems close 387 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: from who you are, your voice and your appearance and 388 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: your psychologic stuffing. You're paying playing a contemporary character. You're 389 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: not playing somebody with some disability or what have you. 390 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: It's not rain Man or someone who's damaged and broken 391 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: like Cowboy and so forth like that. But you've done both. 392 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: There's a there's a theatricality of the roles and a 393 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: vividness to them, and you're not afraid to do that. 394 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: Where does that come from? From being in the theater? Yeah? 395 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: I mean I where are you from? From? Long as? 396 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: I'm from fucking long Asland, fuckings long with two? So 397 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: how first of all, I wish we lived in the 398 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: same city. How old were you when you started studying act? 399 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 1: And when they sent you out? They sent you out 400 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: for certain kinds of parts, young leading men, the young 401 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: guys who could cried a lot or whatever. I'm the 402 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: short Jew and uh still with some acne, and I 403 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: come to New York and night to study, and I 404 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: always said leading men, young leading men, Juvenile's character juveniles. 405 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: That's what I was designed as. I couldn't get an agent, 406 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: and that's just code for Semitic, you know, because in 407 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: those days the leading man was white Anglo Saxon Protestant 408 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: and the ethnic person was character juvenile or character us. 409 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: It really was that way anyway. So I went out 410 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: a few times. I could, you know, go to open auditions, 411 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: because if you're not equity then you can't go to 412 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: a regular audition, and you can't go to a regular 413 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: audition until you get your equity card, and you can't 414 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: get an equity card until you get a job, so 415 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: you know, catch twenty two. So the few times that 416 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: I could go, it was the character Juvenile and by 417 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: Hooker Crook, uh Nichols casts Cassan Ross and I in 418 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: a graduate and I'd been just starting to get somewhere 419 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: off Broadway doing you know, my own style of stuff, 420 00:26:54,520 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: hunchbacked German, gay guy with a limp, you know, first 421 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: thing that I got mentioned for in the in the 422 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: New York Times, and uh Nichols had heard about it, 423 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: and uh and I got to you're not kidding. You 424 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: played a hunchback Germany, German homosexual with a limb Ronald ribbon. 425 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: What was the production Harry Noon and Night? And the 426 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 1: other actor was what's this Joel Joel Gray? Sorry Joe? Uh, yes, 427 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: that was accurate. So uh he brings me out to 428 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: test me, and I didn't want to test. I was doing, 429 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: for the first time in my life, doing well off Broadway. 430 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: I won an award, and I thought, I'll have a career, 431 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,239 Speaker 1: you know, do I'll do off Broadway. And you know 432 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: this as well as I do. Uh. You know, if 433 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: God has said, look Alec, you'll never be in the movies, 434 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: you'll never get leading roles. If you're struggling for years, 435 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: you won't even be on Broadway. I will guarantee you 436 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: a good part Broadway for the rest of your life. 437 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 1: You'd sign you would, you know? Uh? And so would 438 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: Hackman who moved Fronture and down you know, six flights, 439 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: and do Val who worked midnight to eight in the 440 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: post office. And I was doing waiter jobs and a 441 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: little acting teaching if I could. And it's you know, 442 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 1: it's never changed as actors here. You know the pain 443 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: of that um and uh, here. He is now taking 444 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,239 Speaker 1: me out into l A and testing and can we 445 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: do anything about his nose? I remember, and I mean, 446 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: well the guy is He said, you don't and he 447 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: couldn't believe it. I mean, he's the hottest director from 448 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: Neil Simon Broadway and also Virginia Wolf. He did, Uh, 449 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: there was no hotterer director at that moment in time. 450 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: He was Spielberg. And he said, what do you mean 451 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: you don't want to do this part? I said, I 452 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: read the book of Mr. Nichols. Was on the phone. 453 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: He's in l A m in New York doing a play. 454 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: I said, ben hi been Braddock in the book. He's 455 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: five ft eleven, blonde hair. I says, it's Redford. I said, 456 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: you don't want me and he said no. He says, 457 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: I I would like to test you. He said, you 458 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: mean he's not Jewish. I said, right, it's Benjamin Braddock 459 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: and he said something I've never forgotten this is well, 460 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: maybe he's Jewish. Inside years later he's from Berlin, Mike. 461 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: He came here in the early thirties and Uh, he 462 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: had his own pain because he didn't have a lot 463 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: of hair. He had scarlet fever and uh, he not 464 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: too long ago, just a few years ago. I read 465 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: in the paper that he never understood why he cast me, 466 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: and then he finally did through the analysis or something, 467 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: and he said, because I was like an alter ego 468 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: of him. He felt like he was me in uh, 469 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: you know, on the periphery, you know, out of it, 470 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: and he was casting himself the funny looking guy. Do 471 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: you know that that movie was shot and I went 472 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: back to New York to collect unemployment. It was a lot, 473 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: because you know, it's fifty bucks a week is getting 474 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: the mostly to get and they're cutting the movie again. 475 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: I read this in the newspapers and Lawrence Turman, I 476 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: think it was a New York trrens, a producer. They're 477 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: showing it all over the bell Air circuit, every Hills, Bellair, Brentwood, 478 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: on the movie theaters they have in the homes, and 479 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: over and over again, Turman said before it opened, and 480 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,959 Speaker 1: over and over again, people in the industry would come 481 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: up to Larry, why brilliant film you almost had if 482 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: you hadn't a miscast the league And that was a perception. 483 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: You know. It's interesting because speaking of that casting thing, 484 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: he and I have had a little there was a 485 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: whiff of this, of this, of my appreciation of his career, 486 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: and you wind him mind. I remember this. I doubt 487 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: you remember this. But I go to the old Westwood 488 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: Marquis Hotel because I get called to go an audition 489 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: for the movie Hero and Stephen Friers is the director, 490 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: and the phone rings, and this is back when I 491 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: was making films in the nineties and everything, and I'm 492 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: lighting one off the other and I'm gonna meet this guy, 493 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: and I'm like, God, I'm in my car. I'm like God, 494 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: masically gonna go to the Westwood Marquis and they just 495 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: lay out the facts. They're like, you know, snap out 496 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: of it. You're gonna go to the Westwood Marquis. You're 497 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: gonna be Stephen Friers, and you're gonna have a meeting 498 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: with Dustin Huff. And I'm like, I love this guy. 499 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: I want to bring this movie where this guy and 500 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, like twenty minutes goes by and 501 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: Stephen Fiers. If you know the movie Hero, where someone 502 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: commits this actor, there's a case of mistake and identity, 503 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: and Andy Garcia played the other role, so there has 504 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: to be this case of mistaken identity between the two actors. 505 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: Stephen Fiers literally twenty minutes in. I mean my dream 506 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: is just take flight, my wings. I'm flying over the 507 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: West Food Blocky Hotel. I'm gonna make my first movie 508 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: with Dustin eff and Hoffman and Stephen Fears looks at me. 509 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: He goes, you know, I just realized that you don't 510 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: look anything like Dustin at all. And it was like there, 511 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: I'm flying. Also, he shoots my balloon like crash onto 512 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: Westwood Boulevard. I'm dead on the highway there. I'll never 513 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: figure to talk about. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not. Our dreams, 514 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: our dreams, how they how they escape us. But I'll 515 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: call the Emma right right right in west But the 516 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: exactly when you do, when you show up and you 517 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: work with Slushranger and you do Cowboy, do you you 518 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: come up with all that and you show him did 519 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: he help you? Did you Cowboy? Very briefly, he didn't 520 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: want It's very similar to Friars and You. He did 521 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: not want to see me because he had seen a 522 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: graduate and that's the only thing he'd ever seen me 523 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: in and he was an artist in a ship that 524 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: I was in a big hit and suddenly an instant star. 525 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: He wanted the right person, and he refused to see me. 526 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: And I heard about this, and I had read the book. 527 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: I thought the script was okay. It was Waldos. He 528 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: actually came in a room with John votnite when we 529 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: did it near a wall instide tape recorder. We improvised 530 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: everything everything. The Slessener was great at that, and he 531 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: would go home, uh Waldo well and write the improvisations 532 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: into the scenes that he had already written. Anyway, he 533 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't see me, and I said, please, you know, I 534 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: gotta see him. He's got to see me. And he agreed. 535 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: I know we're running out of time, so go quick. 536 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: Uh forty second Street. What are they called those things 537 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: where you you go when you put the quarter in? 538 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: I can't remember the automat the automat, thank you, And 539 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: I said, the automa. I'm gonna directed movie of him playing. 540 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:04,239 Speaker 1: You heard it? Go ahead? And I used to go 541 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: there and we all did you know too, three in 542 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: the morning whatever, uh, and get coffee or whatever. And 543 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: it was all kind of trance people there. And I said, 544 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: I'll meet him in the automat and I want to 545 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: do it about one or two in the morning, because 546 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,439 Speaker 1: you know, and I'll dress accordingly, which is what I did. 547 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: It kind of like I wore in that scene at 548 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: rain Co and I didn't shave a few days and 549 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: I greased my hair. I was auditioning and I came 550 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,439 Speaker 1: in and I just said, met him there, sat there, 551 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: and he looked at me, and he looked at you know, 552 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: sparsely crowded, you know, people around. He says. Oh. He says, yes, 553 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: I think you'll do quite well. So the voice and 554 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: all of it, you just throw that out there. You 555 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: come up with that. Oh well, yeah, you keep trying 556 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,800 Speaker 1: to meet my friend Bill Daniel. My friend Bill Daniel. 557 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: You two kinds. Where do you find this? You get desperate? Um, 558 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: but I and I didn't. I that's my bob. I 559 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:08,439 Speaker 1: wasn't desperate enough. And uh, we we're rehearsing and then 560 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: uh a pressing dra hastic shoot some exteriors before we 561 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: started shooting, uh, principal photography because he's got winter and 562 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: he needed winter. So John Voight and I go and 563 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: he says, well, you don't have to talk. I said, 564 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,240 Speaker 1: I don't have a character. I don't have a voice, 565 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: I said, I can't I barely have a walk. No, 566 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: we'll have the camera cross the street. You guys just 567 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: gotta walk. We're not starting for a month, but we 568 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: just need the weather, you know, the smoke com on 569 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,800 Speaker 1: whatever was right? Okay, So John and I were walking. 570 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: John Boyd and I knew each other for years. I 571 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: was the assistant director, which is like, you know, sharpening 572 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: pencils in the off Broadway when he was in From 573 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: the Bridge with Bob du Valley was brilliant and he 574 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: was up and coming star and uh, and you know 575 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: we were competitive. Actors are always competitive and uh, you know, 576 00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: if you're walking on the street, you got a script, 577 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: you have a reading, or you did the read, you 578 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: see another actor coming up, you've always put it behind 579 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: your back, you know. But no, it's just something you 580 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,839 Speaker 1: because you don't want the competition. Uh. Anyway, So we're 581 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,399 Speaker 1: across the street walking and says after divorce, says, yeah, 582 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: but I'm supposed to cough. We're at that point in 583 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: the movie where you know he's got you're gonna find 584 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: out he has t B or whatever. He says, Yes, 585 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: says this says, alway, you do some coughing, do something 586 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: not going but you don't have to talk. Okay, I'm 587 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: rehearsing out of panic, you know, trying on he's limps 588 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: or whatever. And uh, I said, shouldn't be shooting. We 589 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: got a month ago. I haven't found him yet. And 590 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: suddenly we're walking and we paused, and I'm trying the 591 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:49,280 Speaker 1: cough and I threw up literally on John Void's cowboy boots, 592 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 1: and afterwards such as as, I think we've got it, 593 00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: you do, and John, because he's an actor and you know, 594 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 1: we're competitive. He Plessenger told me later he went up 595 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: to pless and Journey. He said, John, let me just 596 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: ask you something. Is he going to do that all 597 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: throughout the over? He says, because I'm not even in 598 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: the scene if he tells, Well, let me just say 599 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: this because obviously, I mean, I got another forty five 600 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: questions I could ask, but they do have a schedule 601 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: here for the festival. But I do want to say, 602 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,720 Speaker 1: I mean, as as u as sappy as this sounds 603 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 1: on behalf of everybody here, I want to say thank 604 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: you to you because I mean, I really, from the 605 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: bottom of my heart, from the bottom of my heart, 606 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: you are one of the greatest movie actors that has 607 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: ever lived in the sort of well I wanted to 608 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: during us act really actors ever and you know somebody, gonnas, 609 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: please help me in factory Dustin Happen. Dustin Hoffman has 610 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: gained some hard won wisdom during his career, and despite 611 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: turning seventy eight this summer, he's embracing a very new 612 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: way to share it. He's teaching an acting class online. 613 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,720 Speaker 1: The description reads, Dustin teaches you everything he wishes someone 614 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: had taught him. You can sign up at masterclass dot com. 615 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin. Thanks this week to Shaun Cameron 616 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: and everyone at Turner Classic Movies you're listening to. Here's 617 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 1: the thing