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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast

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Speaker 1: called Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Today is Fed Minutes Day,

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Speaker 1: and here a Bloomberg and Radio. We think that's a

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Speaker 1: kind of a fun day, so we get excited about

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Speaker 1: Fed minutes. So does our next guest, Danielle di Martino,

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Speaker 1: Booth CEO and chief strategist for Quill Intelligence, former advisor

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Speaker 1: at the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas. Danielle, what are

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Speaker 1: you really looking for this afternoon when we get a

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Speaker 1: look at those FED minutes? Well, I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: looking for the tassett and I use that word carefully.

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Speaker 1: The tasset concession made to the bears made to Christopher Waller,

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Speaker 1: the former research director of Jim Bullard at the St.

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Speaker 1: Louis Fed, who's now our gut Ner, uh and Master

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Speaker 1: and George and others who have been insistent that the

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Speaker 1: Fed Reserve does not belong in the business of of

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Speaker 1: housing of the word we would use internally when I

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Speaker 1: was at the fit with credit allocation. Um. So it's

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Speaker 1: an inappropriate place where it had to be, and it

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Speaker 1: has been for about a year. And the only nod

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Speaker 1: that we saw to them in the minutes was that

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Speaker 1: they you know, they said specifically, we're going to get

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Speaker 1: out of a housing business. We're gonna get out of

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Speaker 1: the business of mortgage backed securities and focus more on treasuries.

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Speaker 1: So I'm interested in that conversation and how that went

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Speaker 1: down because I think it's what prevented a dissent. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people, though, are getting downright angry that

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Speaker 1: they're waiting this long to make those statements and that

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Speaker 1: they're waiting until the March meeting to make any moves.

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Speaker 1: Inflation is at a level where you know, I'm getting

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Speaker 1: I'm getting text messages from from viewers who finally figured

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Speaker 1: out my cell phone number, and there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of expletives in them. Um, what do you think about

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Speaker 1: the possibility of an emergency meeting or a fifty basis

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Speaker 1: point hike in March? You know, when when I saw

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Speaker 1: and I was I was actually I was gratified that

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Speaker 1: Jim Bullard stood by his position on Monday morning, and

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Speaker 1: because it at least seems to me that there are

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Speaker 1: at least a few people inside the FED who are

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Speaker 1: not insensitive. And that's the word that I'll use. So

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Speaker 1: it's all good and well to come out with an

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Speaker 1: emergency rate cut in March of uh, you know, when

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Speaker 1: investors are being you know, in the crosshairs. But it's

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Speaker 1: not okay to come out with an emergency rate hike

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Speaker 1: to answer the plight of everyday US workers. And that's

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Speaker 1: to me, it boils down to being white and black.

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Speaker 1: It's as simple as that we will come to the

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Speaker 1: rescue of investors, we will not come to the rescue

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Speaker 1: of you as households. And the FED is mandated to

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Speaker 1: make policy in the public interests and to suggest that

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Speaker 1: when when when we're when when we've got the gallows

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Speaker 1: humor going on about skateboarding and relearning how to do

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Speaker 1: that and gas prices are you know, hitting four dollars

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Speaker 1: a gallon, and it's it's just again, the word that

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Speaker 1: comes to mind is insensitive. Five dollars a gallon. We

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Speaker 1: were talking about five dollars. Yeah, So that Daniel I mean,

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Speaker 1: when we think about inflation in the FED, I'm not

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Speaker 1: even sure the FEDS in that business. This an inflation

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Speaker 1: this time around primarily supply chain driven. So was this

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Speaker 1: don't a good point? Maybe it's something that the FED

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Speaker 1: can't address. How do you think about that? You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's supply chain driven. We we saw

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Speaker 1: production this morning increased by point two p once you

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Speaker 1: got rid of the cost for heating oil and gas.

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Speaker 1: So I don't buy that. I think that the supply

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Speaker 1: chain disruptions are coming undone. We're seeing inventories be replenished. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and that the you know, on the other hand, forty

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Speaker 1: two million Americans got a bump up in their allocation

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Speaker 1: for food spending on October the one. And that's why,

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Speaker 1: despite world food inflation being off the rails, it's even

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Speaker 1: more off the rails for your average American family because

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Speaker 1: the US government has put pump so much fiscal spending

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Speaker 1: out into the economy. So we we have to look

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Speaker 1: in the eye the fact that the fiscal spending, and

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Speaker 1: there's been countless empirical studies done on this. When you

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Speaker 1: give people money directly deposit cash into the hands of

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Speaker 1: those with the highest propensity to spend it. They're going

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Speaker 1: to spend it, and they did. And the inflation is lagging,

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Speaker 1: so it's dragging down growth even as the fiscal stimulus

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Speaker 1: has largely gone away. Can I just ask you quickly

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Speaker 1: about Sarah bloom Raskin, what's your take on um, the

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Speaker 1: kind of job she'll do if she's ever confirmed? Well?

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Speaker 1: And I think it's I really do think it's a

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Speaker 1: big if. People don't quite understand the importance of Pat

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Speaker 1: to me sticking to his guns and saying I'm i'm

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Speaker 1: self imposing term limits, and so time and again he's

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Speaker 1: been able to actually do his job, and and and

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Speaker 1: and put, you know, give the scrutiny that's needed to

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Speaker 1: certain positions, whether it was defends municipal bond facility that

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Speaker 1: he insisted be shut down along with those credit facilities

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Speaker 1: in the December two thousand m two at twenty excuse me,

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Speaker 1: two thousand twenty stimulus. I think that there has been

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Speaker 1: an inappropriate amount of um of disclosure, and I think

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Speaker 1: demanding questions as opposed to being placated with saying I'll

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Speaker 1: sign a pledged it's never exists and dreamed up by

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Speaker 1: Elizbeth Warren, No, I think an appropriate of scrutiny is

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Speaker 1: called for, and I find some of the testimonies plural

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Speaker 1: that have been that have been given to be disingenuous

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Speaker 1: because of the work that they've been in the past

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Speaker 1: on climate change. Danielle, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: As always, we appreciate your thoughts and insight. Danielle di Martino, Booth,

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Speaker 1: CEO and chief strategists at Quill Intelligence. Speaking of inflation,

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Speaker 1: for you, no matter where the where you look, you

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Speaker 1: see it c p I, p p I retail sales. Uh,

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Speaker 1: certainly many signs of inflat sation out there, whether it's

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Speaker 1: at the gas pump or the supermarket. The question is, um,

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Speaker 1: have we peaked? Has it peaked? When will we see

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Speaker 1: inflation a subside? And there's a federal reserve in other

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Speaker 1: center banks have any roll here? Let's check in with

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Lee, senior economist and managing director Demo Capital Markets. So, Jennifer,

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Speaker 1: I'd love to get your call here on kind of

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Speaker 1: us inflation. Have we peaked? Are we near a peak?

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Speaker 1: How do you think about it? Good morning. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to continue saying that we have not piked just yet.

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Speaker 1: We are actually expecting uh, the inflation data to sort

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Speaker 1: of you know peak the rollover I'm going to say,

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Speaker 1: like late spring ish. Um, I don't think it's going

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Speaker 1: to head sells very quickly. Unfortunately, it probably stays somewhat

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Speaker 1: elevated before heading a before cooling somewhat in the second

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Speaker 1: half of the year. But so NOA in a in

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Speaker 1: my long winded way of saying, I don't think we've

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Speaker 1: peaked just yet, but we're calling almost there. But you

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Speaker 1: do think that we're going to come back down? Um?

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Speaker 1: Is that because you think the FED is going to

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Speaker 1: hike rates and that's going to cool down the economy

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Speaker 1: and inflation. That would be the hope. I mean that's

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Speaker 1: you know, I think of being central banks around the

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Speaker 1: world of your just pointing out, are facing the same

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Speaker 1: issues right now. And given such high inflation rates globally,

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Speaker 1: you know, all the central banks, including the FED, are

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Speaker 1: you know, starting to rate in all that accommodation that

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Speaker 1: they've poured out during during the pandemic. Um, And this

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Speaker 1: is the time and with inflation before inflation gets too

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Speaker 1: much out of control. So, Jennifer, I'm looking at the

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Speaker 1: w I rp go function on the Bloomberg Turmulin shows

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Speaker 1: me potential for seven rate hikes encounter. Is that something

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Speaker 1: you ascribed to? Oh, that's pretty rising. I feel every

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Speaker 1: every single week we are actually we are looking for

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Speaker 1: five rate hikes this year, twenty five basis points each

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Speaker 1: and kicking off in March. I think that's more, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've been saying a more reasonable pace. UM, I think

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Speaker 1: fifty basis points for example in March that summer calling

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Speaker 1: for is h I think it would be quite aggressive UM.

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Speaker 1: And I think it was only like one UM, one

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Speaker 1: FED member in particular, that it has been pushing for that.

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Speaker 1: But I think the other policymakers have been taken more

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Speaker 1: of a balanced approach and looking for probably basis points instead.

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Speaker 1: One of the concerns, I mean, we all know what

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Speaker 1: rate hike cycles look like, or even the kids can

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Speaker 1: go back and and look at the history. But one

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Speaker 1: sort of unknown is how quantitative tightening will affect markets.

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Speaker 1: How do you see that panning out? Will they just

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Speaker 1: um let it run off the balance sheet? Will they

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Speaker 1: actively sell assets? Is it going to be a problem

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Speaker 1: for rates markets? So we are looking for the QT

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Speaker 1: process to start probably in July um and and and

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Speaker 1: sort of taper off at a steady pace. But the

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Speaker 1: Fed has always said that they are going to focus

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Speaker 1: more on the FED funds target specific because that is

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Speaker 1: what the public knows and and how you know, whether

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Speaker 1: or not balance sheets runoff is is going to impact

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Speaker 1: anyone's mindset is a big question. But I think they're

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Speaker 1: going to just basically use the set funds and talk

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Speaker 1: and keep talking about raising rates and sort of in

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Speaker 1: the background, let let the balance sheets sort of start

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Speaker 1: coming off. Um. And I think that will also have

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Speaker 1: the impact of, you know, of a of a tighter,

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Speaker 1: tighter financial conditions. Besides, Jeffrey hikes Jennifer. At two pm

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Speaker 1: Wall Street time, we're going to get the f O

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Speaker 1: m C meeting minutes. Um. It's always big news here Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: What are you looking for when when you Peruzo's minutes.

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Speaker 1: There's always a lot to go through, but it's always

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Speaker 1: interesting to get like a little little little tibbits, like

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Speaker 1: you know, how how much each policy maker was pushing

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Speaker 1: for what you know, how many um where there are

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Speaker 1: several a few, you know a majority of people that

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Speaker 1: were pushing for you know, a more aggressive tact at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of a of a great high cycle or

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Speaker 1: are they trying to go more severely. Those are little nuances,

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Speaker 1: I think, just to see, you know, where how they're

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Speaker 1: going to start off, even though they were saying that

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Speaker 1: they're going to start raising rates right now, and even though,

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Speaker 1: as you're pointing out, we've got seven rate hyps potentially

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Speaker 1: coming in, which again I think is a bit extreme. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, things can change, and once inflation starts to

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Speaker 1: taper off, they could start reading in a little bit

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Speaker 1: some of their um their hawkish talk. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be I don't think

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Speaker 1: they're on autopilot as things what I'm trying to say,

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Speaker 1: and I take most central banks are probably in that

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Speaker 1: mode right now. Um not all right. We see some

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Speaker 1: interesting exceptions in the Bank of Japan springs to mind.

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Speaker 1: We had an interesting opinion piece this morning on Bloomberg saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, the economy, the growth or the recovery in

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Speaker 1: Japan doesn't look great. But as we all the rest

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Speaker 1: of us deal with this huge inflation, um, the rest

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Speaker 1: of the world might look to Japan and think one

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Speaker 1: percent doesn't look so bad. Right now? What's your take

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Speaker 1: on the contrasts of the Japan with with the rest

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Speaker 1: of the central bank regime Japan has been. It's such

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Speaker 1: an interesting story there, and I mean they've been facing

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Speaker 1: you know, deflational on your more or less for the

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Speaker 1: last at least two decades or so. UM and that

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Speaker 1: is one UMU central Bank, as you just pointed out,

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Speaker 1: that is remaining stubbornly on on the signlines, and Governor

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Speaker 1: Karuda continues to stress that point. Um. You know, they

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Speaker 1: had bond yields, for example, rising, their ten year yields

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Speaker 1: were rising in conjunction with everybody else's uh last week

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Speaker 1: and earlier this week, and they had to pour some

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Speaker 1: money into to bring it back down to what their

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Speaker 1: target was, but they remained so devilish and even one

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Speaker 1: one or two of the the policy makers within the

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Speaker 1: bank um continue actually to push for even more accommodations.

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Speaker 1: So that's a huge extreme from what we're seeing elsewhere,

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Speaker 1: you know, with with the G seven, even the ECB

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Speaker 1: right now, you know, they're starting to become less emboldened

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Speaker 1: to their transitory story and we're probably going to see

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Speaker 1: you know, it's still a matter of debate right now.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I wouldn't be surprised to see right

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Speaker 1: high before the end of the year. All Right, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Real pleasure talking. Um. We

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Speaker 1: obviously are following this story very closely. Um, and and

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Speaker 1: we'll continue to Jennifer Lee. They're joining us from BEMO

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Speaker 1: Capital Markets, where she is senior economist and managing director.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk electric vehicles. Yes, I want to talk

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Speaker 1: internal combustion vehicles, but it's the same discussion, the same discussion.

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Speaker 1: Connercend a columnist for Bloomberg Opinion, joins this. Connor, You've

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Speaker 1: got a piece out here saying, the automakers have an

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Speaker 1: incentive obviously for keeping new car prices high, use car

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Speaker 1: prices high, because they need the profits to fund this

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Speaker 1: whole pivot towards electric What what's going on there? You're

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Speaker 1: basically saying their purposely holding back production to pad margins.

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Speaker 1: They say that they're kind of in a spot that

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Speaker 1: they don't mind where you know, again, they have to

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Speaker 1: inve us billions of dollars in the CP transition, and

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Speaker 1: they also have to show investors near term profitability. They're

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Speaker 1: trying to do both, and so they see the prices

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Speaker 1: are really high. Inventories are really low. They're saying that

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Speaker 1: their production won't meaningfully impact prices, and make expect prices

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Speaker 1: to remain high because that's going to fund the profits

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Speaker 1: that keep keeps this thing going. So in a way,

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Speaker 1: your column actually made me feel better about being um

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Speaker 1: an old you know, dodgy e v holdout Because I

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Speaker 1: am waiting for General Motors to release a new Sierra,

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Speaker 1: the A T four X. I need the six point

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Speaker 1: to leader who naturally aspirated V eight And I felt

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Speaker 1: guilty about that until I read your column column Connor,

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Speaker 1: because um, what I realized is I'm paying a high

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Speaker 1: price for that big inch internal combustion engine, and I

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Speaker 1: am effectually subsidizing their electric vehicle investment with that. That's

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Speaker 1: a really good way. I've never thought of it that way.

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Speaker 1: That's a good point. So now anyone who really wants

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Speaker 1: their gas guggler can say, hey, look I'm paying jury.

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Speaker 1: So it's you know, there's no way that we'd be

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Speaker 1: building these things unless people like me were going out

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Speaker 1: and doing our patriarchy duty keeping the old stuff going. Connor.

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Speaker 1: But if if the automakers had the chips, wouldn't they

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Speaker 1: crank up production? Back up to sixteen seventeen million star. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is my main question was is selling fewer vehicles

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Speaker 1: at higher prices more profitable than selling um more vehicles

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Speaker 1: at lower prices? Right, and I get to the whole

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Speaker 1: discussion about you know, what does demand for gasoling power

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Speaker 1: vehicles look like in four We know that right now

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Speaker 1: we've got a huge shortage, and if you just pump

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Speaker 1: out vehicles for six months, they're all going to sell

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Speaker 1: at high prices. But you know, it's an industry with

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Speaker 1: a lot of it's capital in sensive, it's a long

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Speaker 1: lead time, and if ebs ramp up, you know it's

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Speaker 1: coming out of somewhere. And so it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: tricky situation, kind of like oil oil product producers where

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Speaker 1: they kind of need to keep supply low because they're

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Speaker 1: really worried about a glut on the market as demand

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Speaker 1: falls off over time. A buddy of mine runs a

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Speaker 1: bunch of dealerships, and he used to say, you'd have,

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Speaker 1: you know, a couple hundred vehicles in inventory, but he's

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Speaker 1: as those days are over, that's on how they're going

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Speaker 1: to run the dealerships going forward. Is this kind of

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Speaker 1: a new normal where they're gonna have lower inventories, maybe

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Speaker 1: lower production. I'm not sure how that works. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: interesting because we're seeing the same thing in the housing

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Speaker 1: market where homebuilders are very happy with kind of the lowmentory,

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Speaker 1: high profit margin situation. That's sort of like, well, we

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Speaker 1: got caught on two of thementory, but we're making it

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Speaker 1: up on price and margins. So they're they're kind of

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Speaker 1: rolling with it for now, and investors are sort of

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Speaker 1: not sure, Like, you know, valuations are lower because they're

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Speaker 1: not sure if Martin's are gonna Mian revert. But that's

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Speaker 1: you know, what they're selling in terms of a good

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Speaker 1: thing for investors. Right now, my wife is looking for

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Speaker 1: BMW X five X drive forty five E, which is

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Speaker 1: their new hybrid STUV. I messaged my inside guy at

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Speaker 1: BMW and said, do you have an inside guy a BMW?

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Speaker 1: I said, can you source one of the one of

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Speaker 1: these for me at a dealership in the States, And

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Speaker 1: he said, we have one in California, there's one in

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Speaker 1: Sans for it actually called out a deal or is

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Speaker 1: that we're selling at inflated prices above m s r

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Speaker 1: P and they so that those dealers an't going to

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Speaker 1: get them until I're going forward. So I hope they're

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Speaker 1: I hope they're true to their word because if you

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Speaker 1: look for UM, for example, a four D F one

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Speaker 1: fifty raptor uh there you know, Baja racing truck, or

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Speaker 1: if you look for the Mustang Shelby Mustang g T

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Speaker 1: five hundred, which is the supercharge five point two seven

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Speaker 1: hundred sixty horsepower monster, you can't find them without ten thousand,

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Speaker 1: fifteen thousand, twenty thousand dollar additions to the price tag.

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Speaker 1: They call it like UM added dealer something, UM profit margin. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's unbelievable. I always wonder like, if they're doing that,

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Speaker 1: why can't UM these producers have their own dealerships, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's probably the whole point with the online sales

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Speaker 1: and the big fight about that. So it's that's probably

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Speaker 1: gonna be a contentious flight going forward as dealers want.

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Speaker 1: You know, if Tesla and Ribbyan can sell online, then

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Speaker 1: why can't Board and GM. You make a great point

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Speaker 1: about Tesla in your column as well. Um Elon Musk

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Speaker 1: basically said, yeah, we're not working on the cheap car

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Speaker 1: for every man right now because we're making too much

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Speaker 1: money with the expensive cars for rich people. Um, what,

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Speaker 1: what's you know? There's got to be some outcry there

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Speaker 1: at least I'm not that not that the Model three

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Speaker 1: is that expensive, but they are making huge margins on

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Speaker 1: all their products, right And I think right now, because

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Speaker 1: some conductors are in short supply, they can credibly say,

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Speaker 1: you know, sorry, this is really just a situation we're

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Speaker 1: put upon, we're put in. But if some semi conductor

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Speaker 1: towards normalized, then maybe there won't be those excuses and

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Speaker 1: they'll be more legitimate outcry and crack down on, you know,

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Speaker 1: when wind fall profits or whatever you wanna call it. So,

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Speaker 1: what is the new normal level of vehicle sales in

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Speaker 1: the U S? If it's not a production, if it's

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Speaker 1: not sixteen seventeen million, I mean, what's that? You're always

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Speaker 1: asking me what the stars for this? Yeah? And I

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Speaker 1: think the I that's where demand is, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if I'm a factory, I think I think over time

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Speaker 1: that's where we're gonna be. But it's sort of evs

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Speaker 1: are supplied constrained for the time being, and automakers are

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Speaker 1: very cautious about letting the market with ice vehicles because

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Speaker 1: they don't know what the man looks like down the road. Connor,

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Speaker 1: just personally, have you spent any uh time seat time

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Speaker 1: in an electric vehicle? What do you think about them?

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Speaker 1: I have to which it's sort of embarrassing that I

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Speaker 1: write about him, but I have not been behind the

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Speaker 1: wheel of one. I'm on the list, dribbian, but I

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Speaker 1: have not driven one yet. I have to say so

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Speaker 1: many I find um interesting. I was super psyched about

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Speaker 1: these uh um F one fifty lightning trucks coming up

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Speaker 1: the waitlist put me off. Now I've tested out the

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Speaker 1: Mustang Maki, which is fast and sporty, but it doesn't vibrate.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't there's no feeling in it. That's I don't

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Speaker 1: enjoy driving it. I keep asking you car people, isn't

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Speaker 1: that gonna be a big turn off for these things

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Speaker 1: for evs? I just I just think the folks that

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Speaker 1: like the internal combustion engine, particularly if you go to

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Speaker 1: the high end, you know, performance cars, I think that's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a problem. But what do I know? So

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Speaker 1: but everybody's tell me where you can't shift your own gears?

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Speaker 1: I know, don't even go no more manual, Connor. I mean,

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Speaker 1: let's not go there. I kind of send calmness for

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Speaker 1: Boomberg and joining us. He's a founder of Peachtree Creek Investments.

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Speaker 1: He's a Bloomberke opinion columnist. Uh, we're all going electric, folks,

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Speaker 1: get used to it. I guess I'm keeping my two

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Speaker 1: thousand four team BMW five series six speed manual transmission

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Speaker 1: for as long as I possibly ken because it's a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun. One of the many things that I

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Speaker 1: don't understand about this pandemic, any economic disruption resulting from it,

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Speaker 1: is this whole thing about the great resignation, these three

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Speaker 1: four five million workers. Who are they? Where did they go?

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Speaker 1: How do they do it? And I really don't how

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Speaker 1: did they get how did they get so lucky? I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about Dave Wilson, Bloomberg's former Stocks editor. Um, I

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Speaker 1: blame him. I put him in that bunch. But he

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Speaker 1: worked here for thirty years. If you work someplace for

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Speaker 1: thirty years plus, you're incredibly smart. Uh, you save well,

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Speaker 1: you invest well, you should retire. Okay, alright, alright, I

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Speaker 1: just said, Dave, are you going? Buddy? Michael Hanson, he's

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Speaker 1: a CEO of Send Gauge Group. Michael, who are these people.

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Speaker 1: Where did they go? Are they coming back to the workforce? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me. And actually the example that you said,

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Speaker 1: the retiring um the people are the minority of these people,

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Speaker 1: the last majority of those people that are resigning actually

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Speaker 1: reassessing their career. They're saying, what don't I like about

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Speaker 1: my current job and what where do I want to

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Speaker 1: go next? And about of them feel that their current

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Speaker 1: job is not really supporting their career and is not

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Speaker 1: supporting them. Yeah, that's why I say, you know, he

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Speaker 1: should be retiring. If you if you have a thirty

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Speaker 1: year career and you do very well and retire, that's no,

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Speaker 1: that's no surprise. The great resignation is weird in that

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Speaker 1: people who you wonder how do they have enough money

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Speaker 1: to to quit their jobs are doing it. And one

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Speaker 1: of the points that you make, Michael, is that they're

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Speaker 1: actually making financial sacrifices. They're not retiring to Indian hills

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Speaker 1: in playing eighteen holes a day. They're they're doing other

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Speaker 1: stuff exactly. And this is why this is actually good

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Speaker 1: news in a way. These people are courageous, They take risks,

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Speaker 1: and what they say is I want to learn another

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Speaker 1: skill and I want to get a better job that

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Speaker 1: gives me more satisfaction and better pay. And that is

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Speaker 1: something that actually should give us, you know, great confidence

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Speaker 1: in the future and great uh conviction in the American

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Speaker 1: labor labor force. In a way, Michael, they're shaking up

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Speaker 1: the job market as well. You know that the courage

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Speaker 1: of those people, which is what I hear you saying,

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Speaker 1: is forcing employers to do better in terms of the

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Speaker 1: wages they offer, in terms of working conditions, in terms

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Speaker 1: of dealing with you know, the working class. Absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: the only thing I would add other than what you

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Speaker 1: said is the employers should think about also about how

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Speaker 1: they reskill and upskill their workforce. How what can they

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Speaker 1: do to give them education and training and give them

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Speaker 1: opportunities while they're working to get better skills to get

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Speaker 1: a better job and better pay. They don't have to

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Speaker 1: wait until they resign. They can do it when they're

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Speaker 1: actually employees. Michael, Uh, Matt and I have to come

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Speaker 1: into the office every day. I don't we don't have

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Speaker 1: an option per se. But it seems like we are

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Speaker 1: very much the outliers in this new world order. Are

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Speaker 1: you in the camp that says we are now in

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Speaker 1: a permanent, hybrid type of environment. I'm in the camp off.

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Speaker 1: First of all, let's not stipulate what the future is

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Speaker 1: going to hold. We gotta get open, and we gotta learn,

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Speaker 1: and we've gotta learn what works and what doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: And I am, however, a believer that we're not going

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Speaker 1: to go back to the old world that everybody has

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Speaker 1: to show up in the office at you know, nine

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Speaker 1: am on Monday morning. That's not where we're gonna go.

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Speaker 1: Where we're gonna end up, it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: hybrid model. But how we're going to mix it, how

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Speaker 1: we have technology influenced this, I think is open and

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Speaker 1: what I would recommend to other CEOs that are you know,

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Speaker 1: we are a foreign a thousand people company. We're experimenting

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Speaker 1: a lot, and we're learning from each other and keep

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Speaker 1: that open mindset. Yeah, I mean, I would point out

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Speaker 1: that it would be technologically possible for me to do

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Speaker 1: this job for a moment, I wouldn't want to um

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Speaker 1: because we pick up so much from our colleagues here.

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Speaker 1: We discuss stories, I uh, you know, in the midst

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Speaker 1: of breaking news. Are we going to be able to

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Speaker 1: do that online eventually? Michael, what do you think about

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Speaker 1: the possibility of working in the metaverse. I don't think

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Speaker 1: we've got to in the foreseeable future. I don't think

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Speaker 1: we're going to be doing this online. I think we've

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Speaker 1: got to find the right blend, in the right mix.

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Speaker 1: And you use some great examples when you bump into colleagues,

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Speaker 1: you share stories and think about somebody just joining a company.

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Speaker 1: You've never worked for this company, and how do you

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Speaker 1: get you know, a sense of what the culture is

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Speaker 1: like if you don't have a cup of coffee with people,

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Speaker 1: or share a meal, or you know, bump into the

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Speaker 1: met the water cooler. So I do think hybrid that

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Speaker 1: that finding the right mix or face to face and

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Speaker 1: online is going to be the way for the future. Hey, Michael,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us there. Michael Hansen, CEO

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Speaker 1: of Send Gauge Group, talking about the Great Resignation. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe

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Speaker 1: and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast

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00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: Matt Miller three. Pt on Fall Sweeney I'm on Twitter

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00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always catch

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Speaker 1: US worldwide at Bloomberg Radio,