1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: Pushkin. It's hard to mistake James Taylor's voice. It's sweet 2 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: and sounds care free, and if you know the cliff 3 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: Notes version of James's life, that kind of makes sense. 4 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: Summers and Martha's Vineyard as a kid signed by the 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: Beatles to Apple Records at only nineteen years old, relationships 6 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: with Joni Mitchell and Carly Simon, becoming one of the 7 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: premier singer songwriters of the seventies when competition was stiff. 8 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: But these autobiographical details and his sweet voice belie the 9 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: traumatic events of his early days, two stints in a 10 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: mental institution, heroin addiction, and alcoholic father. This is the 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: life James attempts to make sense of and his new 12 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: audio memoir Breakshot, all of which he traces back to 13 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: a traumatic family event he says left the Taylor's cursed. 14 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: When Malcolm Gladwell and James Taylor got together to talk 15 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: about his new memoir, they dove into these darker memories 16 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: from James's past and how his songwriting started as a 17 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: form of therapy. They also discussed why James fields his 18 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: last five albums have been his absolute best work, including 19 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: his latest American Standard. His new albums out February twenty eighth, 20 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: and is full of the songs James Hurd growing up, 21 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: songs that offered him refuge, songs that ultimately offered him 22 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: a new life through music. This is broken record liner 23 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Richmonton. Here's Malcolm 24 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: Gladwell and James Taylor from GSI Studios in New York. 25 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: What I wanted to start with the most unexpected fact 26 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: that came up as I was preparing, which was Taylor 27 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: Swift is named for you. Yes, that was a surprise 28 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: to me too. We first met at a benefit for 29 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: an organization that is meant to mitigate teenage pregnancy and 30 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: she was doing a couple of songs and so was I. Yea, 31 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: and she told me at that point that was before 32 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: she you know, it was such a success. But it 33 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: makes me wonder how many tailors out there have you 34 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: inadvertently spawned. That's a good question. So I the I 35 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: was listening to break shot your audible original, which I 36 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: thought was fascinating. So your your dad grows up in Morganton, 37 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 1: North Carolina, and your mom is in New England. There 38 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: I kind of put a real you're saying grew up 39 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: as a fisherman's daughter in New Report. So a real 40 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: New England there, that's right. Your parents married and what 41 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: year they married in forty well probably in nineteen forty 42 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: seven seven, Yeah, so in nineteen forty seven, that would 43 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: be right, they would have That's what I mean one 44 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: your your father or Southern or your mother or New 45 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: England or those are distinct identities in that they are 46 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,399 Speaker 1: they are. I mean, they were politically very aligned, but 47 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: they were from two different cultures. But my father was 48 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: you know, the thing is really about him is that 49 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: he didn't belong you know in uh. I think that 50 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: that he he didn't really he identified uh sort of 51 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: as we identify our context. He identified that as being Southern. 52 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: But I don't think he felt a part of anything really. 53 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: I think he was quite um, quite isolated. It's sort 54 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: of it's the I think that's the key to to 55 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: understanding my father say that he was He never really 56 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: had a context in which he felt he belonged, and 57 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: you know that changed over time. But I'm pursuing this 58 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: both because this is the a big part of breakshot, 59 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: this memoire that you've done, but also because it so 60 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: obviously feeds into a lot of your music, but I 61 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,119 Speaker 1: wanted to linger a little bit about your You tell 62 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: this story? Can you tell the story in the book? 63 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 1: It's the most one of the most heartbreaking stories I 64 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: think I've ever heard about your Your grandfather, I think 65 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: it's my great grandfather. You mean the one who delivered 66 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: my father, right, Well, my grandmother biologically was a warrant 67 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:58,679 Speaker 1: from Springfield named Theodosia Haynes, and she met met Alexander Taylor, 68 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: my grandfather father, and the two of them fell in 69 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:10,119 Speaker 1: love and she got pregnant. They married, and the child 70 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:18,119 Speaker 1: was delivered by my grandfather's father, my great grandfather, and 71 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: he hadn't delivered a child for for a while. And 72 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: I think after the birth of my father, she contracted 73 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: what was called childbirth fever, but it was really just 74 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: an infection, you know, it was this was pretty antibiotics. 75 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: And she died. Uh And the the great grandfather, my 76 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: great grandfather, who delivered her, was dead within two months, 77 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: and I think the assumption is that he may have suicided, 78 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: you know. So, um so, my father really like his mother, 79 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: went to the family because my grandfather, Alexander just fell 80 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: apart really and descended into alcoholism, which was there was 81 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: a lot of addiction in the family. Yes, it was 82 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 1: a tragic start, and I think it it gave my 83 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: father the sense that that his position was very conditional, 84 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: you know, that he didn't really have a secure place 85 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: in the world, and that his performance was going to 86 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: really you know, that was that was going to be 87 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: the thing that that allowed him, you know, a place 88 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: in the lifeboat. In in Brickshot, you talk about a 89 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: lot about how that's almost like the original sin of 90 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: the tailors, that it cast a shadow, a multi generational 91 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: shadow in the famid does. It's like ripples and they 92 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: spread out. And I think the thing manifested when my dad, 93 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,559 Speaker 1: you know, he had he had five kids in Bally 94 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: in six years and we all as as we entered 95 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: adolescence and the prospect of leaving home. I think that 96 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: my dad just was out of his depth. I think 97 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: it it was something that he just didn't know how 98 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: to how to deal with. It also coincided with his 99 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: drinking becoming. You know, alcoholism progresses. My father is an 100 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: extremely functional alcoholic for many, many years, but ultimately that 101 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: you know that you lose control of that eventually, and 102 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: and that happened around the same time. So my parents 103 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: marriage also fell apart at that that time. And the 104 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: culture was was the Vietnam baby boom culture of nineteen 105 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: sixty eight or sixty six, you know, it was it 106 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: was every buddy was was questioning their connections and their 107 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: context and the and the thought was abroad in the 108 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: land that we change everything, you know, that it would 109 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: all that there was a distinct interruption, you know, discontinuation 110 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: with the last with the World War two mentality of 111 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: that generation. And we were a new generation that was 112 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: really going to change things. And there were so many 113 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: of us at the same time, so you know, all 114 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: of these things happened at once. Uh. And and I 115 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: my own personal story is that I sort of had 116 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: a breakdown, you know, I just couldn't go forward, and 117 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: I sort of had a crisis there, and it precipitated 118 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: in my siblings a similar a similar sort of derailment. 119 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: And how many of your siblings end up you and 120 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: how many of your siblings end up intitutionalized to him, 121 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: to two others. But my older brother really should have 122 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: he was he was the ultimately the sacrifice, my brother Alex. Yeah, 123 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: so you you spend ten months at McLean Hospital. Um, 124 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: and once again we're as you point out, McClean hospital 125 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: is where Robert Lowell went where uh and Sexton was 126 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: teaching poetry classes. You said at some point, so your 127 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: Platt worked there. Yes, Um, I mean the list is 128 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: kind of like it's it's a kind of another you know, 129 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 1: there's there's a series of these kind of um iconic 130 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 1: set pieces. It's like a nexus. Yeah, yeah, that's true. There. 131 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: I never I didn't think about it at the time, 132 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: but it sort of was where one went, you know, 133 00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: if you had a breakdown. Yeah, yeah, it was you know, 134 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: it was Harvard Medical School and mass General Hospital. Yeah, 135 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: did you I was curious about in those So you 136 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: had this very tumultuous teenage late teenage years where you're 137 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: you leave North Carolina, you go to boarding school for 138 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: a while, then you have your breakdown, you go back 139 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: to North Carolina, and then you finished school at Milton Academy. 140 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 1: Were you writing music in that period? What's what was 141 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: your musical identity in those years? Yeah? I was starting 142 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: to well when I went home to North Carolina for 143 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: that junior year, I was in a band with my 144 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: brother Alex. But before then on Martha's Vineyard, it would 145 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: had been the middle of what a friend of mine 146 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: calls the folk scare of the of the early sixties. 147 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: You know, so folk music was the sort of thing 148 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: on campuses, and it was you know, Bob Dylan and 149 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: John Bias and the Kingston EO and Peter Paul and 150 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: Mary and you know that, but also Odetta and Lightning 151 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: Hopkins and Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee and Jesse Loncat 152 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: Fuller and Reverend Gary Davis. You know, there was country 153 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: blues in there as well. So on Martha's Vineyard in 154 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: the summertime, it was easy to pick up a guitar 155 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: and learned from other people who were around, and and 156 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: to find people to sing with and play with. And 157 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: there were open mics at a various a couple of 158 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: coffeehouses they were called. But what's the function of am 159 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: I reading too much into it? But his music? Does 160 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: music have a kind of psychological function for you in 161 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: that troubled moment? Is it your own personal therapy as 162 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: you deal with all of this? Yeah, without a doubt, 163 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: I think that probably a good deal of what art is, 164 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: if this can be called it's a commercial art. It 165 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: is you know, is a kind of therapy or a 166 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: way of getting something insoluble that's inside just in front 167 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: of you somehow. You know, it's like, you know, I 168 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,239 Speaker 1: was a cutter when I was when I was a teenager, 169 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: and it's almost like that you sort of want to 170 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: see the scar. Uh So music definitely started to me 171 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: to uh, you know, it was always a celebratory thing. 172 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: That was that was the main thing about it is 173 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: that it was fun and joyful. But when I started 174 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: to write, I started to write from a sort of 175 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: a therapeutic place, I guess. And that's what I'm known for, 176 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: sort of that that kind of uh. I mean, people 177 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: who go into my stuff in any depth realize that 178 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: that's just a corner of it. But but it was 179 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: the thing that really resonated with people when when fire 180 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: and rain took off. Yeah, I guess my question and 181 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: this is an unanswerable question, but a fun one. Nonetheless, 182 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: had your mother Trudy married a prosperous, happy New England 183 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: merchant and had that been the version of your life? 184 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: Are you a musician or are you something else? No? 185 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: I mean there was no My mother had studied voice. 186 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: She sort of was the last generation that went to 187 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: finishing schools, and she went to a school in Boston 188 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: called Missus Child's School on Beacon Hill, and those women 189 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: were learning to be wives. It was sort of pre 190 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: Ruth Vader Ginsberg, you know, it was pre my mother 191 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: could see she could see the promised land. But but 192 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: you know, and it was frustrated, and you know, so 193 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: she had children and um and was basically a sort 194 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: of a faculty wife, which was a it was a 195 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: job really. But when I you know, so in the 196 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: summertime I had been playing the guitar and getting into 197 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: blues and folk music. I met my friend Danny Korchmar, 198 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: who coach who was to be for my whole life, 199 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: a major connection for me musically, and he introduced me 200 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: to a lot of the music that I was has 201 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: been a source to me, so that there was this 202 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: musical life on the vineyard. Then when I went home 203 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: to North Carolina, I was in a band with my 204 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: brother Alex, and I played the electric guitar and we 205 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: basically were we played fraternity parties, we played what were 206 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: you playing? What kind of music? Well, it was called 207 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: beach music, and what it was was the music that 208 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: Southern college students loved when they went to Virginia Beach 209 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: or Myrtle Beach or or Rightful Beach when they took 210 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: their spring break and they went to party on the 211 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: on the coast. That was the music to what kind 212 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: of can you remember any of the songs. I've never 213 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: heard that term before. A song like Shotgun by Junior 214 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: Walker in the All Stars. That's beach music. Yeah. It 215 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: was very close to the to the Chitland circuit, you know, 216 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: I see those acts that could work that circuit could 217 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: also do the beach circuit. It was a place where 218 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: race is mixed to a certain extent, a limited extent. 219 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: And that's what my brother Alex got into. You know. 220 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,479 Speaker 1: He just loved that music. Anyone who heard it loved it, 221 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: and it was just it was great, Like, uh, you 222 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: know that song a search in by the Coasters. That 223 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: was That was a song called Searching and it was 224 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: the first soul music that I ever heard. I was 225 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: in a bus going from a camp in the mountains 226 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: of North Carolina to Tennessee over the border, and the 227 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: bus driver had a like a I don't know if 228 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: it was the car radio or if it was a 229 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: transistor or what it was, but it was playing that 230 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: song and I just it was like it was like 231 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: somebody you know, carbonated my blood. You know, it was 232 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: just amazing. Yeah, was it unusual for for white people 233 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: to be playing that music in that part of North 234 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: Carolina at that point? I mean it was your brother. 235 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: Was your band with your brother an oddity or was 236 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: it commonplace? Well there was only there was only one 237 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: among high school students in our town, so in the 238 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: town of Chapel Hill, and for that reason we got work. 239 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: We weren't very good, but we were you know. So 240 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: that was a big influence. Folk music first, then beach music, 241 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: my brother's music, and then after McClean, I came to 242 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: New York and started playing here in town for about 243 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: a year. We had a band called the Flying Machine, 244 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: and it just we we just couldn't compete. We petered out. 245 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: You had to get a record contract in those days, 246 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: and we did sign one, much to my chagrin years 247 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: later when when it turned out I'd also signed a 248 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 1: publishing contract. But we were in their hands and they 249 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: gave us two days in the studio and that's it. 250 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: You know, just what kind of music was that, you know, 251 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: it was funny. It started by we sort of identified 252 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: as a blues band, but you know, we realized that 253 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: was sort of inappropriate. We were essentially suburban kids, you know, 254 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: but we love the music. But we also played Jogi 255 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: Carmichael songs. We played God Bless the Child to billy 256 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: holiday tune, and so we we had odd material, you know, 257 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: and I wrote a couple of songs for that. I 258 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: wrote a tune called a night Owl. I'm a night Owl, 259 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: and I wrote a song called Brighten your Night with 260 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: My Day. I cringe to think of it, but there 261 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: it is. And uh, um, you know, we we tried 262 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: our best. We were We got a job as the 263 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: house band at a club called the night Owl at 264 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: McDougall and third. That's just down to yeah, but this 265 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: is a little bit after Downs Gone, Dylan's has left, 266 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: um and Stephen Stills had had gone to the coast 267 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: and started Buffalo Springfield. That was also you know, that 268 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: was a you know, an example of what we were 269 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: aspiring to. But our record deal was a dead end 270 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: and it basically killed us. We were signed to people 271 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: who wouldn't record us. So yeah, yeah, that was the 272 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: end of the sand. Is there anything that you wrote 273 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: in those years that you feel like stands with some 274 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: of your best work. Do you look back fondly on 275 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: anything from that and say, you know what that was? 276 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: That was really the beginning of what I really stand for. 277 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: You know. I wrote a song called I'm a Night 278 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: Out that I think was the best thing I wrote 279 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: in those days, just as a song, the way it 280 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: was constructed, and you know, and it had a feel 281 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: to it. You know, it was good. And and I've 282 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: often thought that I'd like to, you know, try to 283 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: cut that. Yeah, cut did it go? Oh? It was? 284 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: You know. A fish likes the water, that's where he's 285 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: going to be. A monkey lives on fruits and bananas, 286 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: so he lives in the top of a tree. But 287 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: my eyes are made for darkness, so the nighttimes right 288 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: from me, I'm a night owl. Most folks like the daytime. 289 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,479 Speaker 1: They're light to see the signing shining sun. They're up 290 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: in the morning, off and run until they're too tired 291 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: to have any fun. But when the when the sun 292 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: goes down and the bright lights shine, my daytime has 293 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: just begun. I'm a night owl. Close those curtains, form you, honey, 294 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 1: it's just about to make me blind anyways, point out 295 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: that you are reciting from memory a song written over 296 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: fifty years ago, and you must have written in the 297 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: course of your life. How many songs? How many? I 298 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: think it's probably approaching one hundred and fifty. Now maybe 299 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: it's more, maybe it's more like two hundred. But it's 300 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: pretty impressive. You know. It's a funny thing. I think 301 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 1: that for me, anything that has music connected to it, 302 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: I can remember. I don't know any Italian, but I 303 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: can sing. I can sing ladone mobile as you know. 304 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: I learned it in Italian and it's just because there's 305 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: music attached to it. It sticks in my mind. Yeah. 306 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: In fact, I think that that's why people when they 307 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 1: learn English, why English songs, English popular music is so 308 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: useful to them. You know that that a lot of 309 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: people have told me. You know, I learned English by 310 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: by listening to English lyrics. Yeah. Yeah, who to go 311 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: back to? So we're talking about what years now that 312 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: you are. What year are you in Are you in 313 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: Grene Village playing in those clubs? Well, um, that's nineteen 314 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: sixty six, sixty six, I'm eighteen years old. You're eighteen 315 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: years old when you look back on that year. I know, 316 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,959 Speaker 1: you you fall back into drugs or fall into drugs, 317 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: I guess for the first time. Um, but do you 318 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: have is the is the is the year in your memory? Chaotic? 319 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: Is it a pleasant? I mean, how do you kind 320 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: of look back on that? Oh? It was great, you know, 321 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: the whole thing was it was a riot. You know. 322 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: I was free, eighteen and living in New York City. 323 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: The drinking age was eighteen at that point. So where 324 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: were you living? We lived in the Albert Hotel, which 325 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: was at on University at Eleventh Street. It was below 326 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: just below Union Square, and there was one of the 327 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: floors of the hotel it burned, you know, there'd been 328 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: a serious fire. But there was one room that had 329 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: survived it. But they couldn't rent it, really rent it. 330 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: But they rented it to me and the bass player, 331 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: my best friend, Zach Weasner, who I knew from the Vineyard. 332 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: Zach and I took that sort of suite of rooms 333 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: for just for almost no money, I mean, and we 334 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: rehearsed in the basement of the Albert Hotel. So that 335 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: was where I lived first. And then I you know, 336 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: I would crash at different people's places too, and Eventually 337 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: I got an apartment on eighty fourth in Columbus, which 338 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: in those days was you know it was yeah, it 339 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: was a rough neighborhood and and it was you know, 340 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: it was a cheap rent. What are you doing all? 341 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: That's question? But what are you doing all day at 342 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: that age in New York City? Well, you get up 343 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: late and you go to work at the night Al Cafe, 344 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: which is where our gig was. And that was six 345 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: days a week. So from when to end, probably from 346 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: seven o'clock till midnight, three four or five sets we 347 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: would do. People would come in the order hamburg and 348 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee or something. They didn't have a 349 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: liquorized and you know, we play a twenty minute set. 350 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: There was no backstage to speak of. There was like 351 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: a closet where we could hang out or in the kitchen. 352 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: But are you are you writing? How much music are 353 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: you writing in those years? I'm starting to write now, 354 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: but uh, like that night Owl song is written in 355 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: that in that era? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, you 356 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: know the guy who ran the club, it's a labor 357 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: of love. I don't know why he did it. He 358 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: did it because he loved the music. I think and 359 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: just wanted to be part of the life because it 360 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't a living the guy. We were 361 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: making like less than a hundred dollars a week for 362 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: each of us. But you could live on that then, Yeah, 363 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: it's amazing that you could live on that. But you know, 364 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: the subway still wasn't a quarter. It was still a 365 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,360 Speaker 1: dime to ride the subway, so one hundred dollars could 366 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,719 Speaker 1: go a certain distance. Yeah, those days. And you know 367 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: they also fed us dinner, I mean free free Hamburgs 368 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: at the yeah, the night owl. So really, rent was 369 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: the only consideration the So you're things get bad and 370 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: you and then your father comes and rescues you, which 371 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: was an incredibly touching moment, given how troubled your relationship 372 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 1: was with him and how troubled your family life was. 373 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: He drives from North Carolina to New York. He did. 374 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: He I called home. The Flying Machine had had disbanded. 375 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: You know, I had a habit, a heroin addiction that 376 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: I was. It really was going to get me in 377 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: trouble sometime very soon, you know, because I no longer 378 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: was in contact with with Joel O'Brien, who was had 379 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: been my sort of source and a sort of safe 380 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,719 Speaker 1: way to get into the to get access to the 381 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: to the drug. But being an eighteen year old kid 382 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: on the street trying to hustle an to have a 383 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: habit was going to really get me in trouble soon, 384 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: There's no question about it. And my father really did. 385 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 1: It was like the cavalry coming over the hill. I 386 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: think he sensed it. I called him up. He said, 387 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: how are you doing. I said, you know, Dad, not 388 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:25,439 Speaker 1: so good. And he just said, where are you. I 389 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: told him the address eighty fourth in Columbus. He said, 390 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 1: don't move. He says, stay right there, do not leave 391 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: the apartment. So you know, I went home to North 392 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: Carolina and I stayed there for about six months, and 393 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: then I went to England. Yeah. Yeah, And you serendipitously 394 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: get in touch with someone who is involved with Apple Records. 395 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: That's why you see my friend coach Danny kortchmar who 396 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: had been the other guitar in the Flying Machine and 397 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: who had known from Martha's Vineyard and we'd played. He 398 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: had introduced me to the blues and some Latin music 399 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: and stuff, and he had in the year before the 400 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: Flying Machine he had been with a group called the 401 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: King Bee's Much Better Name, and the King Bes had 402 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: backed up Peter and Gordon, an English group, a duo. 403 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: I don't care what they say, I won't stay in 404 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: the world without Love. That was one of their hits, 405 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 1: and another McCartney song called Night and Rusty Armor. But 406 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: Peter was Jane Asher's sister, who was Paul McCartney's girlfriend, 407 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: you know, sort of steady girl for a while there, 408 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: and Peter had, as chance would have it, he had 409 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: just accepted a job at the Beatles brand new record label, 410 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: Apple Records, and his job was basically to find and 411 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: sign other acts to the label. So when I called 412 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: Cooch when I got to London and really started getting 413 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: serious about somebody hearing my music and maybe making a record, 414 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: I call Cooch back in the States and said, if 415 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 1: you still got a number for Peter Asher from Peter 416 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: and Gordon, And he said, I got a number. I 417 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: don't know if it's any good, but it turned out 418 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: it was, and Peter was just at the right the 419 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: right person to call at the right time. He heard 420 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: my stuff and liked it, and he took me to 421 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: Apple Records, where I auditioned for Paul McCartney and George Harrison, 422 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: and they said, Peter, if you want to make a 423 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: record with this guy, let's sign. How old are you 424 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: at this point? This point, I'm nineteen. You're nineteen years old. 425 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: You have just had this kind of disastrous ending to 426 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: your time in New York, and then within six months 427 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: or a year you are auditioning for Paul McCartney in 428 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: Church Harrison and an incredible just a the mother of 429 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: all lucky breaks, you know, just exactly what So how 430 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: did it happen? You go over to your your, your your, 431 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: Where is it again? Where's the Apple Studios? It's in 432 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: um uh they were well, eventually they were in Saville Row, 433 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: but when I went there in in early January of 434 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight, they were at Baker Street. Yeah, and 435 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: it was a sort of rented office space. And as 436 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: soon as they bought a building in Saville Row, that's 437 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: that's where they moved. But the uh, you know, it 438 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: was I just couldn't believe it. I went along with 439 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: Peter and we went up into these offices and I 440 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: met a number of people who seemed really nice, and 441 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: it was all, you know, quite amazing, and he Peter 442 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: remembers it as leaning out into the hall and just saying, 443 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: is there a beatle in the house? And there was, 444 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: and there was. There were two and they came down 445 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: and we walked into a room and I I can't 446 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: remember it really very well because did you play? I 447 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: played Something in the Way She Moves? Why did you 448 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: choose that was? At the moment that was your you 449 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: considered to be your best song? Yes, I thought it 450 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: was probably It's probably the best one I hit. We'll 451 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: be back with more of James Taylor's Beatle audition after 452 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: the break. We're back with Malcolm and James Taylor. Before 453 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: the break, James was telling Malcolm about his audition with 454 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: Paul McCartney and George Harrison and producer Peter Asher, where 455 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: he played the group something in the Way She Moves. 456 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: So they so they listen and they say, do you 457 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: remember They said to Peter, you know, I think Peter 458 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: went out of the room with them. They said very nice, 459 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: very nice, and left the room and Peter said, well, 460 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: what do you think and he said sounds good to me. 461 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: Do you do you want to record him? Peter said yeah, 462 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: I'll produce him, and they said okay, yeah, what are 463 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: the great job interviews of all time? Can I point out? 464 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: I think so, you know, an actually it's like a 465 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: fantasy of a job interview, an actual you know. Apple 466 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: only lasted for a very short time, less than in 467 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:50,479 Speaker 1: a year, really, yeah, because Alan Klein had convinced Yoko 468 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: and John that he should manage them, because after Epstein 469 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: died there really was a great uh you know gap 470 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: and no question about it. Apple was badly run and 471 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: it was hemorrhaging money. And but you know, there were 472 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: a number of people signed to it, Billy Preston, myself, 473 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: Mary Hopkin, Jackie Lomax, uh, the Modern Jazz Quartet. But 474 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: Alan Klein came in and wasn't interested in any of that, 475 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: you know, and our contracts said that we could audit him. 476 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: He didn't want to be audited, so you know, McCartney 477 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: didn't you know, had been warned off him by a 478 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: number of people, including the Rolling Stones, who who had 479 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: had a disastrous uh time with Alan Klein. But he 480 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: was just one of these pirates who manages to convince people, 481 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: and John and Yoko went for it. So it was 482 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: probably like the death knell for the for the Beatles. 483 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: But he closed down Apple, and Peter um I had 484 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: left London to go back to the States and I 485 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: was trying to clean up. I was trying to get 486 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: to shake my my habit again. And Peter called up 487 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: while I was in an institution back back in the 488 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: Berkshire's actually where I live now, and he said, well, 489 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: this place is finished, he said, and we're out of 490 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: the contract because Alan Klein will not be out at it. 491 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: So that was it. He said, yeah, I'm gonna move 492 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: to He said, I'm moving to Los Angeles and what 493 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: do you say? I find us a record company and 494 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: I'll be your manager. And I said, m sounds good. 495 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: And I called Paul McCartney and asked him if he 496 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: thought Peter would be a good manager, and Paul said, yeah, 497 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: I do. I think McCarty's number. I guess I did. 498 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: Maybe Peter gave it to me. You know, could you 499 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: say you're charmed life? Your life is both not charmed 500 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: and insanely charmed. Oh, it's it's totally charmed. Yeah, and 501 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: it's it's you know, the only parts about it that 502 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 1: are bad are totally my fault. I mean, just because 503 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: I have this mangled eye that that sees everything, you 504 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: know as as being a drag but but in fact 505 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: it's just been a gift from from start to finish, 506 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: it's been wonderful. Yeah. Well, there's a little straight detail 507 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 1: that confused me because so your song was called something 508 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: in the Way She moved, Yes, something something that she 509 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 1: was So George Harrison did he read his song after 510 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: hearing yours? Yeah? Does he does? He? Does he own up? 511 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: Does he say he was inspired? No? I don't think 512 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: he really remembered my song. I think he remembered the 513 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: line there's something in the way she moves. Yeah, and 514 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: he liked that line. Um, but I don't think he he. 515 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: I don't think he really. It was some months later 516 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:19,399 Speaker 1: and um, actually you know that the Beatles song? Uh yeah, 517 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: I took that from them. So it's all karma. Yeah, 518 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: it's all it's all just goes around. And I just 519 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: I looked at it as a real you know, the 520 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: thought that that he might have that I might have 521 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: inspired it. George Harrison's song was was enough for me? 522 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: That was great. Yeah. Yeah. And in Breakshot, you're fast 523 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 1: fast forwarding about the strange set of coincidences that's surround 524 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: and surround the death of John Lennon, and I was so, 525 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: I mean, the whole thing is just so you wouldn't 526 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: you couldn't make this up. So you so you couldn't 527 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: make Trump up. For Christ's sake, Yes, you couldn't make good. 528 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 1: There are many things in our world now, but but 529 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: you're you at that point, living just a few blocks 530 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 1: from John Lennet on Such Park West. I'm assuming know, 531 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: not a few blocks. I was living one street up 532 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 1: one and I my window on the sixth floor of 533 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: apartment six s at at the Langhum, which is the 534 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: building uptown from the from the Dakota that looked out 535 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: on seventy third Street and the back of the Dakota 536 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:42,800 Speaker 1: with a sort of an arch that gave way into 537 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: the archway didn't reach all the way to the street level, 538 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: but it was an archway into the courtyard of the 539 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: of the Dakota. So when John was shot, I was, 540 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,800 Speaker 1: I was in the window, you know, just just talking 541 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 1: to someone on the phone, and I heard the I 542 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 1: heard the shot, you know, and then the day was 543 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: the day before you would run into this strange character 544 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 1: on the subway. Yeah, who we described Hell, let's you know, 545 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: just this this sort of sweaty, obviously either coked up 546 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: or or or on speed, or or on some combination 547 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: or in a manic break or something. This guy had 548 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: sort of fastened onto me as we both left the 549 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 1: subway station at seventy second Street, which is right there 550 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 1: at the Dakota, and I was walking up one block 551 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: to my door, and uh, and he just was in 552 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,879 Speaker 1: my face, talking to me about this and that and 553 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: John Lennon this and and you know, his his music 554 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: and uh and he has plans for this and he 555 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: wants to do that, and I just like, you know, 556 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 1: the guy was face was glistening with sweat, you know, 557 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: it was just uh, you know, the picture of someone 558 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: who was manic, you know, and and just flying. And 559 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 1: I just you know, scraped him off and got out 560 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: of there. And it was Mark David Chap Yeah. Wow, 561 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: couldn't I couldn't believe it. The next day I was 562 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: talking to Peter Asher's wife out on the West Coast 563 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 1: and she said, I don't know if it was the 564 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: if it was the Manson Trials, or if if maybe 565 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:38,280 Speaker 1: uh that one of the Manson m crew had tried 566 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,879 Speaker 1: to shoot um present Ford or something like that. But 567 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:49,399 Speaker 1: Squeaky from squeaky from right squeaky anyway, Um, she said, 568 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: things are crazy out here on the West Coast. You know, 569 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 1: it's just feels so strange in Los Angeles, you know, 570 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: the all the the manson stuff, coming up on stuff. 571 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 1: And I said, you think it's strange there. I just 572 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: heard the police shoot somebody on the street, you know. 573 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: And she said, well, how do you know that? I said, well, 574 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,320 Speaker 1: it sounded like a thirty eight. It was five shots 575 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: in a row, which is you know, the police. I've 576 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: been told that that's what a police shooting is, that 577 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: they emptied the gun and that they keep an empty 578 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: chamber under the hammer. And so I was sure that 579 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: it was a police shooting. And she said wow, And 580 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,879 Speaker 1: we said goodbye and hung and rung off, and like 581 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: twenty minutes later she called me back and said, that 582 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: wasn't a police shooting. That was John Lennon. Oh yeah, 583 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,240 Speaker 1: just a half hour later or something. Yeah, just amazing. 584 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: They had already heard about it, but you know, so 585 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,280 Speaker 1: yeah it was. I had visited Yoko and John at 586 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:59,359 Speaker 1: the at the Dakota at one point, and I think 587 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: they invite me over because they wanted Alan Ginsberg wanted 588 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 1: to talk to me about some songs that he had written. 589 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: And he was there, but you know, I I didn't 590 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: know what to make of his lyrics or or and 591 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 1: I really wasn't interested in collaborating, you know. And I 592 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: just it was a beautiful, you know, an odd oddly 593 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: decorated but you know, by what standards, I don't know, 594 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: but it was. You know, it was a amazing to 595 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 1: be in their apartment. I had been in other apartments 596 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 1: in that building before. I had looked at Leonard Bernstein's 597 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:46,240 Speaker 1: apartment which was on the market, and um, my wife 598 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,760 Speaker 1: and I were looking for a place then, but uh, 599 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: you know, it was out of our league. So um 600 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: that's the only time I visited them there. But I 601 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,800 Speaker 1: was I was just in my window when the shots 602 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: rang out. I want to catch on a couple of 603 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:11,880 Speaker 1: other things about about songwriting. Um, I would be remiss, 604 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 1: you know, here I am a few feet from the 605 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: great songwriters at the last kind of say that thing, 606 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,759 Speaker 1: So I really have to. One of the things I 607 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: read that fascinating was that you often begin to compose 608 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 1: on the piano and then go because I you know, 609 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: we always imagine people like yourself in the room with 610 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,240 Speaker 1: your guitar struggling way. But you when did you start 611 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,760 Speaker 1: doing that? And what's the advantage of doing it that way? Um? 612 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: On the piano. Yeah, well it's just a slightly different 613 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 1: you know. Uh. It's often the case that you'll you'll 614 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,839 Speaker 1: sit down and you'll you'll be playing like a just 615 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: a little you know change that comes to men, and 616 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,759 Speaker 1: then that will suggest you to you up a sort 617 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:06,799 Speaker 1: of a lyric or Um, let's see. And likewise, if 618 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,479 Speaker 1: you a sort of scrap of melody and a little 619 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: bit of lyric will will happen in the context of 620 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: those little wheels that you're playing, and that will, you know, 621 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: sort of ignite a song. And uh. And that can 622 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: also happen when you're sitting at the piano like um, 623 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 1: you know, just I'm very I'm I can't play I 624 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:36,359 Speaker 1: can't claim to play the piano at all, but I've written, Um, 625 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,240 Speaker 1: I've written a number of songs on the piano, and 626 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,400 Speaker 1: and then uh, um I sort of explain them to 627 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:48,239 Speaker 1: a piano player and and uh and let go of it, 628 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: you know, and he'll change the key I can only 629 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: play in uh and uh see anyway, Uh, it's a 630 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: little bit rusty even at that. But that's a tune 631 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: called shed a Little Light written on the occasion of 632 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: Martin Luther King's birthday. And see that was shed a 633 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 1: little light, shedow of a light. So I'm just curious 634 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: about what is it you're hearing on the piano that 635 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,120 Speaker 1: you that you can't hear on the guitar or can't 636 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,279 Speaker 1: do on the guitar. And now it's it really is 637 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 1: what I can manage to do with my fingers and 638 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: the sound that it makes, that that comes back to me. 639 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:30,839 Speaker 1: It's a feedback thing. And you know, suddenly I'm you know, 640 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,960 Speaker 1: trying to construct a little melody on the on the 641 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 1: piano that I that I like. You know, it'll i'll 642 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,200 Speaker 1: record that. I'm I'm always traveling with something. Well, now 643 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 1: that our phones are these great recorders, um, I don't 644 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,720 Speaker 1: have to carry one anymore, But I used to always 645 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 1: carry a little digital pocket recorder. And if I have 646 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 1: an idea or a lyrical idea while I'm walking on 647 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,759 Speaker 1: the street, or a melody comes to mind, I'll I'll 648 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,879 Speaker 1: whistle it into the thing and and then i'll i'll 649 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 1: when it comes time to really get serious about working stuff, 650 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 1: I'll i'll look back through all of these things and 651 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: find things to work on, things to elaborate on, or 652 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: things that will fit together and make a make a piece. 653 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: And so with the piano, it's really just sitting down 654 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: at it and playing what occurs to me. But it's 655 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: a combination of what you know. It's always in the KEYFC, 656 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 1: it's a very it's very pros it's very prescribed prescribed um. 657 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,960 Speaker 1: In other words, it's it's extremely limited. And uh, and 658 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,480 Speaker 1: so is the guitar really. I mean, I'm not a chromatic. 659 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 1: I'm not free up the neck with the guitar that 660 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,680 Speaker 1: you know. I change capo positions so that I can 661 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,799 Speaker 1: play in a different key, or so I can use 662 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,400 Speaker 1: a fingering up a whole step so it'll be and 663 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: B and that's more comfortable for some songs. So it's 664 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 1: these limitations really that contain it. You know, I don't 665 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,200 Speaker 1: know what I'd do if I were absolutely chromatically free 666 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 1: to do whatever I wanted. I'm really dependent upon my 667 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:23,520 Speaker 1: my limits, the limits of my vocabulary, musical vocabulary, the 668 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: limits of my voice. You know, these things really put 669 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,040 Speaker 1: it into a shape and a recognizable one after a while. 670 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: And you know, I think the same thing happens lyrically 671 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:42,400 Speaker 1: that I keep going back to familiar topics, like I 672 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,000 Speaker 1: have a number of songs I've written about my dad, 673 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,480 Speaker 1: a couple about my mom. I have songs that are 674 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:55,040 Speaker 1: like ms hymns for agnostics, spiritual songs that that are 675 00:45:55,280 --> 00:46:02,319 Speaker 1: looking for some kind of spiritual connection I have, you know, 676 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,720 Speaker 1: I've love songs that I that I now write mostly 677 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: to my wife. So then there are celebratory songs and 678 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:17,120 Speaker 1: occasionally a political song a little bit um. But I 679 00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 1: keep coming back to the same you know. It's almost 680 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 1: like my limitations are are really the containers that the 681 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,920 Speaker 1: juice gets poured into, you know. Yeah, we'll be right 682 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: back with more of Malcolm's conversation with James Taylor. We're 683 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,360 Speaker 1: back with more from James Taylor. What's the song of yours? 684 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 1: Do you think has been overlooked? There are a lot? 685 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:50,560 Speaker 1: Can you pick one? Never die young? It's enough to 686 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,799 Speaker 1: be on your way if I keep my heart out 687 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 1: of sight, God have mercy on the frozen man. The 688 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:02,760 Speaker 1: song there we Are. I believe that the I've written 689 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:07,320 Speaker 1: my best work in the in the past five albums. 690 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,360 Speaker 1: In the album That's That's why I'm here. Our glass 691 00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:20,760 Speaker 1: New Moonshine, October Road, and Before This World. I believe 692 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 1: that that I've written my best work, my best songs, 693 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,920 Speaker 1: and it just happens to be out of what people 694 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: are familiar with for my work. And I think that 695 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,960 Speaker 1: that I do have an audience that knows those songs. 696 00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:41,319 Speaker 1: But um, they they're not you know, they're not the 697 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,719 Speaker 1: money songs. How does the active songwriting change as you 698 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,960 Speaker 1: as you get older. It's a really good question. It 699 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,279 Speaker 1: has less urgency to it, and it's being you feel 700 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,560 Speaker 1: less like it's being extruded from you, like it's got 701 00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:01,680 Speaker 1: to get out, you know, like scratch the surface anywhere 702 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:06,680 Speaker 1: and a song will come out. And it's more like, Um, 703 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,360 Speaker 1: the urgency leaves and it becomes more of a craft 704 00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,040 Speaker 1: and you you get you you become better at the 705 00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,680 Speaker 1: just the process, you know, the you develop a method 706 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,480 Speaker 1: and you are more demanding in terms of the structure 707 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,400 Speaker 1: of it and the form of it. There was a 708 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:33,320 Speaker 1: long gap between Um, October Road and Before This World. 709 00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:41,120 Speaker 1: Well what was happening in that period? Those are the 710 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:44,800 Speaker 1: two yeah, you know, uh, those are your two last 711 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:49,320 Speaker 1: or rigid songs of original music. Two thousand and two 712 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:57,759 Speaker 1: and twenty fifteen. Yeah maybe, uh wait, and for your 713 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,120 Speaker 1: three and twenty fourteen but yeah, and before this World 714 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:07,040 Speaker 1: was your first number one album? Yes it was. Yeah. 715 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,400 Speaker 1: Isn't it extraordinary? Well it is, although uh you know, 716 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:16,400 Speaker 1: nowadays album sales are are way off because people don't 717 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: buy music really anymore in the same way. Still, come on, 718 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,160 Speaker 1: but it is no, it's remarkable. And what it really 719 00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,279 Speaker 1: means is the record company finally did their job. And yeah, 720 00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:33,040 Speaker 1: they finally you know, I just you know, I don't 721 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,040 Speaker 1: have very good things to say about the record business, 722 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,919 Speaker 1: but I do think that it's it's better. It's it's 723 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:43,160 Speaker 1: better to have thought have music exists in a commercial 724 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,160 Speaker 1: world than it is to have it. Um that it 725 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,560 Speaker 1: is to have it, uh, you know, to to to 726 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:54,440 Speaker 1: be dependent on the court like some minor aristocrat in 727 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,319 Speaker 1: Germany somewhere to sponsor you. Or the church. You know, 728 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,279 Speaker 1: those are the the church, the court and academia were 729 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,839 Speaker 1: the places where music used to happen. And and and the 730 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,720 Speaker 1: marketplace is better, you know, it's it's better. It's not great, 731 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,239 Speaker 1: but it's better. Wait, so what tell me what was 732 00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,920 Speaker 1: happening in that gap? Had you were you were you 733 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,920 Speaker 1: giving up on songwriting? No, not at all. I've just 734 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,160 Speaker 1: been extremely busy. I made two albums of cover songs, 735 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,400 Speaker 1: songs that I that because I have this great band 736 00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:32,239 Speaker 1: it's like a musical community, and I wanted to record them. 737 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,239 Speaker 1: And I built a studio on my property of a 738 00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:41,840 Speaker 1: big room, big wooden room, um and uh, and we 739 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:47,400 Speaker 1: we recorded a couple of covers albums, so that was 740 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,680 Speaker 1: in there. Also a Christmas album was in there, which 741 00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:55,839 Speaker 1: I always you know, just like you know, as as 742 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,239 Speaker 1: time goes by, your scruples kind of fall by the wayside, 743 00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,640 Speaker 1: and I thought, you know, but the Christmas album was 744 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:06,280 Speaker 1: a delight to make, and I made it with Dave Grusin, 745 00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:10,160 Speaker 1: who's a great composer and arranger, and he produced it 746 00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,879 Speaker 1: and we just had a ball, you know. We So 747 00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,000 Speaker 1: there were three albums that came out, and actually a 748 00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:22,879 Speaker 1: fourth was the the album from I had a sort 749 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,759 Speaker 1: of theatrical piece that I did for a while just 750 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:30,239 Speaker 1: myself and a piano player called One Man Band, and 751 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,520 Speaker 1: we that we released that as an album as well. 752 00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,880 Speaker 1: So there were really there were four projects, three or 753 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,760 Speaker 1: four projects between those two albums, and we were recording 754 00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,919 Speaker 1: a lot. And then also, uh, you know, if you've 755 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,680 Speaker 1: got a family. If you have children, and you're going 756 00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,960 Speaker 1: to pay any attention to him, you know you that 757 00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:58,880 Speaker 1: that's a big demand on your time. And also just touring. 758 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:03,080 Speaker 1: Touring takes a lot of time too. Yeah, so really 759 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,279 Speaker 1: there was plenty going on. Yeah, one last thing and 760 00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:11,040 Speaker 1: then I think we probably hum were you were you? 761 00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,720 Speaker 1: Will you play something just to bring our delightful chat 762 00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:20,919 Speaker 1: to a graceful close. You're up to you whatever you well. 763 00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,480 Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this song what he 764 00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,640 Speaker 1: got three wrote it. You know, he used to do 765 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:32,920 Speaker 1: commissioned songs. I think roll On Columbia, roll On Your 766 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,840 Speaker 1: power is turning our darkness to dawn. Roll On Columbia 767 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,560 Speaker 1: roll On was for the power company that built the 768 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,480 Speaker 1: damn on the Columbia River. Yeah, so he would, yeah, 769 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,880 Speaker 1: you know, and he was hounded by someone that he 770 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:50,040 Speaker 1: knew who belonged to an organization called the Ladies Auxiliary 771 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:56,160 Speaker 1: and um, and I guess that shut him up. There 772 00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:02,520 Speaker 1: there's your song. Good. Thank you so much, James, Thank you, sir. 773 00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:08,920 Speaker 1: Thanks to James Taylor for coming on Broken Record. His 774 00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,319 Speaker 1: new album American Standard is out February twenty eight, and 775 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,799 Speaker 1: his new audio memoir breakshot is available on audible net. 776 00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:18,680 Speaker 1: We can hear some of James's music on a playlist 777 00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,360 Speaker 1: we put together for this episode at broken record podcast 778 00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,120 Speaker 1: dot com. Broken Record is produced with help from Jason A. Gambrell, 779 00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,719 Speaker 1: Milo Bell, and Lea Rose for Pushkin Industries. A theme 780 00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:32,120 Speaker 1: music is by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.