WEBVTT - A Vengeful Return 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:07.760 The moment, dear listener has come. Donald Trump is president 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:11.639 of the United States once again. He started by unleashing 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:16.080 a flurry of executive orders trying to end things that 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:20.840 are in the constitution, like birthright citizenship, while also boosting 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:25.320 the oil industry that's causing climate change, and targeting immigrants 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:26.360 and trans people. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:32.040 As of today, it will henceforth be the official policy 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.800 of the United States government that there are only two genders, 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.640 male and female. 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.040 Today, we're going to analyze Trump's actions in his first 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:46.000 week in office, and we're going to start here with 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:50.680 Trump signing an executive order instructing the federal government to 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:56.760 issue passports and other federal documents that reflect only two sexes. 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:03.560 My friends, comunity, my family are angry and scared that. 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:08.520 Daniel Trujillo, a seventeen year old trans student from Arizona. 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.760 As I get older, I'm going to have to apply 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.840 to schools, get a house, get a job, and a 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:19.800 lot of those things require documents. If those documents aren't correct, 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:24.640 it opens the door to discrimination and violence and places 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.040 that trans people shouldn't have to fear violence from. You know, 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:31.600 no one should have to fear being discriminated against. At 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:36.000 a job interview or by their employer or their landlord. 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.400 And then there's climate. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.120 We will be a rich nation again, and it is 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.880 that liquid gold under our feet that will. 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:48.480 Help to do it. 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:53.600 As Californians continue to deal with the devastation of wildfires 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:58.040 and New Orleans is blanketed in a record breaking snowfall, 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.960 Trump withdrew the United States from the Paris Agreement at 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.520 a time when scientists have said humanity has about four 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:12.040 years before climate change becomes catastrophic, and in another national 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:17.360 emergency declaration, Trump greenlit a massive expansion of the fossil 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:18.360 fuel industry. 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:25.600 Growing up in Houston is being surrounded by pipes, trains, trucks, 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:30.280 boats and barges, all filled with poison. 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.280 Brian Barras is forty seven and he lives in Houston, Texas, 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:40.320 a city with so many refineries and superfund sites it's 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:45.240 known as the petro Metro. Brian says that Trump's deregulation 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:49.200 will lead to sickness and even early death in his community. 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:54.000 When all checks and accountability are taken away, that leads 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:58.680 to accidents and explosions at the expense of the people 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:05.040 who live around his facilities. You see more cases respiratory 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:12.399 problems asthma, headaches, nose bleeds, and eventually we'll see more cancers. 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:19.240 And then there's Trump's biggest targets, immigrants. 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:23.880 I will declare a national emergency at our southern border. 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:28.920 All illegal entry will immediately be halted, and we will 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:33.280 begin the process of returning millions and millions of criminal 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.400 aliens back to the places from which they came. 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:41.720 As Trump delivered his inaugural address on Monday afternoon, migrants 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:45.560 at the southern border received a life altering message pop 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:49.720 up on their phone. CBP one, the government app where 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.760 migrants could schedule appointments to apply for asylum, had canceled 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:58.600 all appointments, even those made months ago, with the phone 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:11.360 message simply saying existing appointments are no longer valid. Lament 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.000 that's the voice of Pablo. He's a thirty year old 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.760 migrant from Venezuela who, after months at the Southern border, 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.239 had an appointment scheduled with US Customs and Border Protection 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:29.320 for Inauguration day at eight p m. His appointment, like 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:33.400 all others, was automatically canceled. He told us that he 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.839 didn't try to cross the border illegally. In fact, he 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.919 waited for his place in line, and the news, he said, 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:42.440 is heartbreaking. 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:57.560 Hey persona Sally Dejesu Cordia Ni. 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:08.320 Pablo, who's an engineer, says he and other Venezuelans left 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.640 behind their lives to start anew in the US and 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.280 asked for more kindness and mercy from Trump, a person 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:20.159 who he said speaks so much about Jesus Trump's so 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.960 called borders are. Tom Homan said to CNN that ICE 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.520 is not just going after migrants who pose a public 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:31.760 safety threat. He said ICE will arrest undocumented migrants who 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:35.800 have no criminal record and possibly deport them as well. 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:45.240 Is tamagia alanompra aros escuchamo ke ambistove las patrez migracion 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.880 in Tom says in a personaci medamo. 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:50.480 This is Norman. 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:55.040 She's an undocumented Mexican domestic worker based in New Jersey. 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.719 She's lived there for twenty seven years. She had family 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:02.839 members deported under the Obama administration and has already heard 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:07.200 rumors of ICE patrolling in her neighborhood. She's afraid, and 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:11.440 so is Itzel, her sixteen year old US born daughter. 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:17.359 How do they see taking someone's mother away from them? Okay, Like, 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:22.480 how would they like it if random people they don't 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:26.120 even know knock at their door telling the mother to 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:27.360 get out packing. 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:31.400 Things that you leave it For undocumented people, safe spaces 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.599 are becoming increasingly difficult to find. 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.839 The new administration says ICE can arrest people at churches, schools, 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:44.279 daycare centers, and shelters. Homeland Security announced agents have this 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.119 authority to carry out these enforcements. 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.760 For me, sanctuary was the only place where I could 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:56.839 be safe, where I could be protective, where I could 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.440 not be reached or harmed, and in a spiritual way, 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:07.479 not only protected by the congregation but by God. 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:12.920 Under the first Trump administration, Rosa Savido, a sixty year 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:16.280 old Mexican immigrant, took sanctuary in a church in her 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:21.080 rural town in Colorado to resist a deportation order. Before that, 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:23.440 she had sold tamalis, and she had worked in the 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:28.360 local church there for over thirty years with no criminal record. Now, 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.000 she says she's not sure where she'll go. 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.520 I cannot even imagine how things are going to look 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:37.840 like from now on for all of. 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:45.000 Us from futuro Media and PRX, It's Latino USA. I'm 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:50.040 Marie no posa today Avengeful Return, how our communities are 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:54.280 bracing for Donald Trump's initial actions in office, and how 0:07:54.320 --> 0:08:02.360 can we navigate the next four years. People in our 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.400 communities are grappling with what comes next for our families, 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.840 for our neighbors, for our livelihoods, our safety. So today 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.920 we are combining forces with Tuturo Media's political podcast In 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.960 the Thick to bring you a roundtable discussion to break 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.600 it all down. Joining us from Princeton, New Jersey, renowned 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:22.920 author and professor of African American studies and yes, unketido amigo, 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.000 doctor Eddie Glaud. Even though he's battling a cold in 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:27.920 the flu here he is. That's how we're showing up 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.800 in twenty twenty five. Welcome back to the show, Eddie. 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:32.200 I'm so excited to be with you. 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:36.400 And from Austin, Texas is Nicole Nadia, Senior political reporter 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:41.040 at Fox. She covers immigration and disinformation. Nicole, welcome to 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:41.439 the show. 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:42.840 Thanks glad to be here. 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:46.640 All right, so we're going to start with a temperature check. 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.760 This is really about how you're feeling emotionally. So what's 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.840 your emotional temperature check? We'll start with you Eddie. 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:58.559 Well, I'm vacillating between anger, rage, trying to figure out 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.600 what to do next, kind of anxiety in some ways, 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.440 but for the most part, all those emotions are feeding 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.880 into kind of resolved to get to work, to get 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.319 to work close to the ground. I think I'm sick 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:14.440 for a reason, you know. I think it's appropriate given 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:16.920 this moment and what's happened. But you know, just I 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.120 keep saying to myself, they've done it again. And you know, 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.079 I got a text from my son saying, I can't 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.520 believe this is what you guys are handing to us, 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.880 and he was indicting the older generation. So just worried 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.000 about him and his dreams and what we have to 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:32.120 do moving forward. 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:33.520 Although it's not forever. 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.320 No, it's not forever, right, and we've been here in 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:41.800 horrible places in our country before. Nicole Quiles Duistado emotional 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:42.840 your temperature check. 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:45.880 It's a lot. I had forgotten what the first Trump 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.840 administration was like and the way that he sort of 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.920 lived in our minds constantly, and I embracing myself for 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.880 the next four years and trying to figure out how 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:57.200 to get through this marathon. 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:01.000 We are all in this together, and we are going 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:02.920 to figure it out here at Latino, USA, and in 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:07.160 the thick we are committed to not giving up. So, Eddie, 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:09.760 Trump said that he was going to begin a quote 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:13.480 golden age for the United States. He cast himself as 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:17.720 a rescuer of a country in turmoil. He even suggested 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.600 that divine intervention was responsible for him surviving those assassination attempts. 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.559 His speech, Eddie, was filled with the usual xenophobia as 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.599 he let out plans for a wide scale militarized assault 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:30.280 on immigrant communities. 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:32.480 Eddie, how did you see this speech? 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:36.160 And do you think it's going to stand out, you historian, 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:38.800 as a moment that is going to be remarkable in 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:40.040 American political history. 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:41.080 Wow? 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.080 In terms of the latter question, I don't know if 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:45.240 it'll stand out. It all depends on whether or not 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:49.520 we survive this, whether not American democracy will survive this 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.840 second term of trump Ism. And I think his speech 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.840 gave us a very clear indication of the kind of 0:10:55.960 --> 0:11:01.280 very deep anti democratic sensibilities, efforts that will drive the 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.160 way which he thinks about policy, the way in which 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.120 he thinks about governing, if he governs at all. Right, So, 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.000 I was just struck by how none of it was new. 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.280 He didn't say anything that should surprise us. He's been 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.640 saying this all along, And I guess the thing I 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.080 could say that was our advantage last time is that 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:22.199 he didn't know how to move a government for his ends. 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.600 This time, he has cadrea folk around him who can 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.520 move government to achieve the vision that he put forward. 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:33.000 So it was all familiar. But the question that we 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.720 have to ask ourselves and from a historical standpoint, is 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:39.120 what will be the scope and depth of the damage 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.400 done by the vision that he put forward. 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:45.760 It's important to remember right that Donald Trump is walking 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.520 in with this sense of power, especially in terms of 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:52.880 executive orders, and he's trying to end birthright citizenship. In 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.760 order to do that, he need to get a congressional 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.319 super majority and for three fourths of the states from 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.440 the United States to ratify a change in the constitution 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.480 to officially end birthright citizenship, which is a pretty tall order. 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:10.480 But Trump does have the power right now to order 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:16.640 federal agencies to stop providing services to babies born from 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:20.560 undocumented parents. But either way, we expect that this is 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:23.640 going to be litigated in the courts for some time. Nicole, 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.839 what if any executive orders did in fact stand out 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:27.080 for you. 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.960 I think Trump is looking here to really start with 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.400 shock and awe. That's the words that his advisors were 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.480 using ahead of his inauguration. But a lot of this 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:42.800 is potentially vulnerable to legal challenges. Of course, via executive order, 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.320 he can basically undo anything that Biden passed via executive order. 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:48.760 One of the first ones he signed was reversing many 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:53.240 Biden regulations around climate, around immigration, and I think we'll 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:54.960 see more of that in the days ahead. I think 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.439 there are still a lot of questions about what exactly 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.400 this means in practice, So especially on immigration, he really 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.960 is laying out a very sweeping vision for changing immigration 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.480 enforcement in this country, looking in word rather than just 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.600 outward at people who are coming in. I think also 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.200 if we're looking at other topics withdrawing from the Paris 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.320 Climate Agreement, of course we expected that, but we will 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.160 see sort of a huge reversal on the environmental progress 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.800 that Biden made. We're also looking at his pardons for 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:28.719 the January sixth insurrectionists, which he described as J six hostages, 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.040 notably in front of the families of Israeli hostages at 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.560 the rally. He had There's so much here that we 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:36.360 can dig into, but I think those are some of 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:38.280 the ones that stand out to me right off the bat. 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:42.320 And we're already seeing resistance right. So far, twenty two 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:46.760 states have sued to block Trump's executive order that aims 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.520 to end birthright citizenship. And it's not just in the 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:54.600 US right because Trump also vowed to take back the 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:59.640 Panama Canal, which provoked protests in Panama City, and Mexico's 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:03.679 president and Claudia Shanbaum said her country would support Mexicans 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:07.679 in the United States, calling them heroes and heroines of 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.640 the nation, and Shamee Baum said that she would defend 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:20.760 Mexico's sovereignty and independence. Coming up on Latino USA, so 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.240 where do we go from here? We're going to continue 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.760 our conversation with author and professor of African American studies, 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:31.840 doctor Eddie Glaud and Nicole Naria, senior political reporter at Vox. 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:47.680 Stay with US notes. Welcome back to Latino USA. I'm 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.520 Maria no Josa. We're going to continue now our conversation 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.760 with Princeton's doctor Eddie Glaud and Nicole Naria, senior political 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:58.520 reporter at Vox. So Eddie look, much of your work 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:00.920 revolves around the idea that in ord to understand the 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.080 current political reality and to imagine something that could come 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.640 in the future, we actually have to go back. So, Eddie, 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.480 what lessons do you think that we can learn from history? 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:15.440 I'm trying to talk to my brother Frederick Douglas. What 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.440 would he be saying. What do you think that we 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:22.160 need to understand from our past history that can help 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.720 us navigate this moment? And do you think that there's 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.320 anything comparable that we've experienced in the United States? 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:28.040 Oh? 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.240 Absolutely, I mean this is an echo in some ways 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:35.480 of the collapse of reconstruction. I mean you mentioned Frederick Douglas. 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.880 He was born into slavery. He stole his freedom. He 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.920 lived long enough to see the Emancipation Proclamation signed by 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.240 Abraham Lincoln, the passage of the Civil War amendments. But 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.240 he lived long enough to see the first Jim Crow 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.680 Laws past. When you listen to his July fifth, eighteen 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:55.760 seventy five address on the eve of the centennial, he 0:15:55.960 --> 0:16:00.880 understands what's happening. That is to say that reunion and redemption, 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:05.520 the quarrel that led to black freedom, is now being reconciled, 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.960 and that required that black folk be removed from view. 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.120 It's almost this kind of continuous loop. Maria, What do 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.560 I mean by that? There's a kind of tragic choice 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.720 that's at the heart of the American founding, a compromise, 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.520 and that compromise had everything to do with our democratic 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:24.280 principles and with greed and selfishness rooted in slavery. And 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:29.800 because of that compromise, we have bequeath to succeeding generations, right, 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.080 a kind of political culture of evasion and deferral. We 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.440 don't want to confront the ugliness of who we are. 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:40.040 We always have to declare ourselves as somehow the redeemer nation, 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.000 or a Golden Age or something of that sort. Right, 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.440 And so I think part of what I see with 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.600 Donald Trump is a kind of nostalgic longing for an 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:52.600 America of old. This is the ugly underbelly of the country. 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:56.320 It's always been here, yep. And so I think what 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:58.240 I've been saying is that we have to just simply 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.960 admit it in order for us to get beyond it. 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.680 So this is not just Donald Trump, this is us. 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.200 And I think that's the key inside here. 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:09.840 I just don't know where the left goes from here 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.320 in terms of trying to articulate a path forward that 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.520 meaningfully opposes Trump and the impact of his policies, which 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.159 we're already beginning to see, even appointments for the CBP, 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.400 one app at the border being canceled, and people reckoning 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.600 with the fact that they may never be able to 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:29.119 enter the US. So, you know, we're already seeing the 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:31.600 human impact here. But I feel it's really all quiet 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.880 on the Western front when it comes to the left here. 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.680 One of the things that I've been asking Trump voters 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:38.679 is what do you want to see in order for 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.120 you to feel satisfied that Donald Trump has delivered, right, 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.280 So you want to see the women crying on the 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:46.240 other side of the border, realizing that they will not 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.680 legally be able to enter the United States to request 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.200 political asylum. At the same time, Nicole, I've also been 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:59.400 understanding that our job as American citizens, as American residents 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.399 is only going to be to push that democracy is 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:04.840 not kind of like you know given here it is 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:06.680 with a bo I think we kind of went through 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:08.840 that with Barack Obama. People were like, oh my god, 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.600 we did it, and then no, it never really stops, right, 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.960 We get tired, but we just have to continue doing 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:28.480 this work for the entirety of our lives. Nicole, specifically 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.520 in terms of immigration. Who are the players that you're 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.480 watching and do you believe that because it's a second 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.879 Trump administration they are going to be able to in 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.800 fact deliver on these extremist policies. 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.520 A big one is Stephen Miller, who has always articulated 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:48.359 this vision of an America that is at risk of 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.840 sort of its white majority and its white culture being 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:56.600 subsumed by an increasingly diversifying population. And I think that 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:00.000 fear is at the root of much of Trump's immigration policy, 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:04.240 which are really sort of Stephen Miller's brainchild. So we're 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.240 going to see how all this plays out in terms 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.760 of the mass deportation agenda in particular. But a few 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.800 other figures that I'm watching are Tom Holman, who is 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.480 Trump's Borders art He was big in US Immigration Customs 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:21.720 Forcement under Obama, presided over record deportations there under Trump 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.280 was also heading up the agency but was also never 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:28.440 confirmed by the Senate, but notably was behind this policy 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.400 of family separation that we saw during the first Trump administration. 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:35.919 At the border with children being housed in these temporary facilities, 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.320 and many of them were never reunited with their families, 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.600 and he was quite unapologetic about that. And I think 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.919 this time around is looking to oversee the policy of 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:48.200 mass deportations and has suggested deporting families together. 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.520 So there is a lot coming at us. And as 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:53.240 both of you have said, we've kind of been through 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.840 this before, right Eddie. In your work you have helped 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:00.359 us to understand by studying and writing about powerful black 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.520 revolutionaries and thinkers. Your latest book is called We Are 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.359 the Leaders We've been waiting for, So in it you 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:09.720 argue what we were just saying here right that it's 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.520 going to be all of us. It's everyday folks that 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.520 are going to be the heroes of democracy. So what 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.800 do you think this means in this political moment as 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:23.240 this administration targets some of the most vulnerable people, because 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:27.000 it questions solidarity and what it looks like right now. 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:29.479 Yeah, I mean, we got to get clear on what 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.400 we mean by justice, and we have to, I think 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:35.879 very clearly align our actions with our passions and our commitments. 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:39.520 We can't expect politicians to save American democracy. We're going 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:40.720 to have to do it, and we're going to have 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.000 to do it close to the ground. Washington, DC is 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:44.879 going to be a mess over the next four years. 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:47.920 There's going to be the executive orders, the Imperial presidency. 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:49.919 He will do what he will do. All of the 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.520 innovation is going to have to happen downstream at the 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.000 county and state levels. And so what we have to 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.480 do is to understand, right where we are in our communities, 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.280 how are we arguing for better housing, how are we 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:03.040 addressing the question of policing, how are we addressing the 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.960 issues of education in our communities? Right where we are? 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:09.560 And then as we organize, maybe we can produce a 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:13.320 new cadre of leadership, of politicians that are not so 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:17.600 shall we say, self interested or bought or purchased by money. 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.560 I think part of what we're seeing here, and I 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:22.160 think this is just to go to a certain level 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:26.920 of abstraction money is all of the contradictions of neoliberalism are. 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:27.520 In full view. 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:32.199 It's collapsing right in front of our faces. And we 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:34.840 have to understand that the Democratic Party is a part 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:38.520 of that. The Democratic Leadership Conference and its legacy. People 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.760 are tired of republican light. That's what Democrats have been 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.560 for all of these years. And so I think there's 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.120 going to be a political realignment that's going to take 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:50.679 place on the ground as people try to grapple with 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.200 the issues that directly confront them. Right now, a lot 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:57.760 of folks are overwhelmed. They're grieving a kind of sadness, 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:01.360 the kind of sense of helplessness. How can the country 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.080 I know, I'm asking myself this question, how in the 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:08.879 hell did these folk elect this crook again? What's motivating it? 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:11.040 And then when you ask that question, you get to 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:13.720 a certain space, at least for me, and you will say, 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:16.720 I'll be damn these people would rather throw the entire 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.439 experiment away than to share it with us. And so 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:23.120 once you get beyond that, then you got to turn 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.600 your face or turn your feet, turn your hands to 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:27.920 the hard work on the ground. And I think that's 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:29.520 what I mean by we are the leaders we've been 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:32.359 looking for. We don't need politicians to do to expect 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:34.120 them to do it. We got to get to work 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:36.400 on the ground, and that means in our local communities, 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:38.600 in our counties, in our states. That's what I'm suggesting. 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:41.399 And you know, what, Nicole, I am not hearing a 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:45.120 lot about immediately taking on the issue that so many 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:47.840 Trump voters that I spoke to were interested in, which 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:51.640 is the economy, lowering the price of eggs, figure out 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:54.480 how I pay my rent, how can I get enough 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:56.959 to buy a home. I'm not hearing any of that, 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.960 But we are hearing so much of the hatred. Right Nicole, 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:05.320 you are in Texas. What does solidarity look like for 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:09.000 you in these times? As a journalist and as at Dejana. 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:11.520 It's a difficult question. So much of my work is 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:17.240 focused on elevating voices from communities that right now especially 0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:20.320 have been drowned out among as you said, sort of 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:22.399 a lot of the hateful language that we've seen coming 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:26.159 out of Trump's campaign and his new administration. So I 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:28.720 think that's what I'm trying to focus on. That's been 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:32.160 my guiding light here. But I have to say, people 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:35.280 here are very open about their support of Trump and 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:38.240 what he stands for, and I think it's a scary time. 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:41.200 I think to be a member of a marginalized community. 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:43.800 I can't say I'm heading into the next four years 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:46.280 with a particularly hopeful attitude. 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:48.080 Well two years to the midterms. 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:51.840 That's two years to the midterms, right, Nicole, since you 0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:55.000 are in Texas, I want to leave our listeners with 0:23:55.160 --> 0:24:00.680 a thought. Right, there was ones progressive woman who ran 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:03.320 the state of Texas as the governor. Her name is 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:07.320 Anne Richards. May she rest in peace. Things can happen. 0:24:07.800 --> 0:24:11.320 Do not give up hope. There was an outspoken woman 0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:14.800