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Speaker 1: Happy Friday. The song Happy Birthday to You and whether

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Speaker 1: a person could sing it as part of a public

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Speaker 1: performance came up in our recent episodes on Irving Berlin

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Speaker 1: and Irving Berlin is part of our much older episode

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Speaker 1: on the history of that song and it's copyright, So

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Speaker 1: we thought we would bring out our Happy Birthday episode

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Speaker 1: as Today's Saturday Classic, and as an update, a federal

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Speaker 1: judge did rule that this song is in the public

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Speaker 1: domain in the United States, in so waiters can sing

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Speaker 1: it in restaurants now without having to pay to license it,

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Speaker 1: contrary to what was going on in when we recorded this.

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Speaker 1: We noted at the end of the episode that an

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Speaker 1: effort to get Happy Birthday into the public domain could

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Speaker 1: be legally very messy, and it sure was. It involved

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Speaker 1: a class action lawsuit and a fourteen million dollar settlement

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Speaker 1: by Warner Chapel Music, which agreed to pay back years

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Speaker 1: of licensing fees as part of this whole thing. This

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Speaker 1: episode originally came out April, so enjoy Welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: You Missed in History Class a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio Hello, and Welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry

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Speaker 1: and I am Tracy Vee. Wilson, and today we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about a thing that everybody knows. Yes, uh,

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Speaker 1: everybody knows the song Happy Birthday to You, pretty much everybody.

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Speaker 1: Even if you don't sing it for whatever reason, you

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Speaker 1: probably know how it goes. I don't enjoy it at

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Speaker 1: my birthday. I would rather people saying you're older than

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Speaker 1: you've ever been and now you're getting older. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: that one's fun. Thanks. They might be giants. Mine is

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Speaker 1: mostly a problem of people start Happy Birthday too high,

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Speaker 1: and then when they get to that third line, they

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Speaker 1: really have to stretch, and everybody sounds a little dicey.

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Speaker 1: Mine is that I don't like to sing in front

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Speaker 1: of other people. Well I don't, and I'm very self

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Speaker 1: conscious about my voice and whether I am off key. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well that's a whole other bollow ax for me. I'm

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Speaker 1: singing does not happen in front of other people. But

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Speaker 1: so Happy Birthday to You is one of the three

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Speaker 1: most popular songs in the English language, and it's been

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Speaker 1: translated and published in so many other languages. But sometimes

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Speaker 1: people are still surprised that this song is actually protected

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Speaker 1: under copyright and cannot be singing in a public performance

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Speaker 1: without paying royalties. It's one of those things that we

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Speaker 1: hear so often that surely it must be in the

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Speaker 1: public domain. No, it is not. It is not. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It came from a place, it was written by people,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, so we wanted to kind of

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Speaker 1: examine the history of it and where this simple little

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Speaker 1: tune came from and why waiters can't sing it in

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Speaker 1: restaurants right. Well, and that's it's a thing that people

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Speaker 1: can easily interpret as ridiculous that you can't sing happy Birthday,

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Speaker 1: Like that's one of those this is a dumb legal

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Speaker 1: requirement thing that people will say. So, yeah, how did

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Speaker 1: we get to this point? Well, and for clarity and um,

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Speaker 1: talk about it a little bit more towards the end

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Speaker 1: when we talked about the current legal state of examination

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Speaker 1: around it, uh and copyright law. You can't sing it

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Speaker 1: at a birthday party that's considered a private affair. You

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Speaker 1: just can't sing it for a public performance anytime you

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Speaker 1: would directly or indirectly be profiting from it, etcetera. You

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Speaker 1: can't put it in your movie, correct without licensing it.

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Speaker 1: So Uh. The sisters behind the song, Mildred J. Hill

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Speaker 1: and Patti Smith Hill, were actually the daughters of Presbyterian

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Speaker 1: minister Dr William Hill, and he actually founded the Bellwood

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Speaker 1: Female Seminary. And their mother was Martha Hill, who studied

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Speaker 1: college courses through private tutoring at Center College, but she

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Speaker 1: was never granted a formal degree because of her gender.

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Speaker 1: And they actually had an interesting family. They had six children,

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Speaker 1: So there was Mildred Jane who was the eldest. She

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Speaker 1: was born in June of eighteen fifty nine, Mary Downing

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Speaker 1: Hill who was born in eighteen sixty four, William Wallace

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Speaker 1: Hill born in eighteen sixty six. Patty, the other sister

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Speaker 1: Germaine to this songwriting story, was born in March of

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty eight. Archibald Alexander was born in eighteen seventy one,

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Speaker 1: and Jessica Matteer, the youngest who also factors into this story,

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Speaker 1: was born in eighteen seventy four. So we have two parents,

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Speaker 1: six children, and what was really a pretty progressive approach

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Speaker 1: to raising children at the time. The Hills encouraged their

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Speaker 1: children to play. They encouraged free play and independent thought

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Speaker 1: and exploratory learning. Um so it wasn't a lot of

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Speaker 1: children should be seen and not heard here read this

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Speaker 1: book They were much more into their children being active

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Speaker 1: and creative, and they also encouraged their daughters to pursue careers,

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Speaker 1: which was not unheard of but was also not super

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Speaker 1: common at the time. UH and the two sisters that

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Speaker 1: wrote Happy Birthday actually went on to really interesting careers

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Speaker 1: with their own. Patty Smith Hill became a very renowned educator,

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Speaker 1: and she's really recognized for pioneering some new approaches to

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Speaker 1: early childhood learning, and she's actually often credited with shaping

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Speaker 1: the modern kindergarten as we know it. Her sister, Mildred J. Hill,

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Speaker 1: was an accomplished music scholar and a composer. She wrote

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Speaker 1: several pieces on the importance of Negro spirituals as a

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Speaker 1: corner stone of American music. UM and she's believed to

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Speaker 1: have written a groundbreaking analysis on the subject under the

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Speaker 1: pen name Johann Tonsor. We'll put a link to that

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Speaker 1: article in our show notes. So that was under a

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Speaker 1: pen name. Not a hundred percent sure on the identity

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Speaker 1: of the person who wrote it, but it's believed to

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Speaker 1: be the work of Mildred J. Hill. But their legacy

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Speaker 1: really is for most people, the Happy Birthday to Youth song.

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Speaker 1: UH and The song didn't quite start as a birthday

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Speaker 1: celebration song. So it started when the sisters were both

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Speaker 1: teaching in Louisville in nine and at that point, Patty

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Speaker 1: had just gotten out of school and was just starting

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Speaker 1: her job teaching, and the two originally conceived of a song, UH,

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Speaker 1: which is a little ditty called good Morning to All

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Speaker 1: that would be sung as a classroom greeting with the

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Speaker 1: very simple lyrics of good morning to you, good morning

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Speaker 1: to you, good morning, dear children, good morning to all.

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Speaker 1: I remember singing this in preschool, except we didn't say

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Speaker 1: all at the end. We just said you another time.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of UM students did similar things.

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Speaker 1: Uh and Patty wrote the lyrics and Mildred wrote the

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Speaker 1: music to it, and their good Morning song was published

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Speaker 1: in a song book called song Stories for the Kindergarten

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Speaker 1: in And it's one of those things that I think

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Speaker 1: people here and they're like, that's a really simple song.

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Speaker 1: Can you really claim anybody wrote that? But you can.

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Speaker 1: It's simple, but it's designed to be because they were

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Speaker 1: trying to come up with tunes could teach children UM

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Speaker 1: music very easily, Like a kid can repeat that song

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Speaker 1: having heard it only once or twice at the most right,

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Speaker 1: it does not take long to learn Happy Birthday to you,

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Speaker 1: and it actually is a little deceptive in its simplicity.

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Speaker 1: This is one of my favorite things that I learned

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Speaker 1: about Happy Birthday and this whole outline that Holly has

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Speaker 1: has given to me today. Stephanie Anne Goldberg, who was

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Speaker 1: writing for the Smart Set and republished in The Utney

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Speaker 1: Reader In pointed out that the song it really has

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Speaker 1: a subtle complexity to it, and to quote her, maybe

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Speaker 1: you never realized it, but inside the Happy Birthday song

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Speaker 1: is a waltz reminiscent of the Blue Danube waltz. You

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Speaker 1: can alternate singing the two as you dance to get

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Speaker 1: a better sense of their similarity. That delights me. Is

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Speaker 1: pretty cool. I did not realize ever, having been singing,

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Speaker 1: you know, Happy Birthday for thirty something years, but it's

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Speaker 1: a waltz, and she in um in her article, which

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Speaker 1: is another one that will link to in the show notes,

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Speaker 1: she kind of talks you through how to do the

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Speaker 1: box step and count the numbers so you can do

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Speaker 1: them at the same time, which I did not test,

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Speaker 1: but it made sense in my head as I read

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Speaker 1: it as like a kind of envision doing now and now,

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Speaker 1: now I really want a happy birthday polka because you

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Speaker 1: can also you can. It's not just it's a step

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Speaker 1: from waltz to polka. I guarantee there's a recording of it.

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Speaker 1: Impolca has to uh. And the beauty of such a

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Speaker 1: simple tune as well is that it's really easily adaptable,

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Speaker 1: which is why, for example, your school growing up, change

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Speaker 1: the lyrics a little bit, because a lot of people do. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And after the song's publication in it became popularly used

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Speaker 1: in education, and it did evolve, uh. You know, teachers

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Speaker 1: could easily switch out words, and it also kind of

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Speaker 1: changed to become a way for students to greet their teachers,

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Speaker 1: rather than the apparent initial intent of the lyrics, which

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Speaker 1: was sounded much more like a teacher greeting students. But

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Speaker 1: it kind of took on a life of its own

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Speaker 1: in the education realm at the time because again, it

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Speaker 1: was easily adaptable. So unlike today, when the song was

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Speaker 1: first published in eightee, there was no public performance right

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Speaker 1: for musical compositions. Composers didn't have any kind of legal

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Speaker 1: right or recourse to prevent other people from performing their music,

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Speaker 1: they could only prevent other people from printing and selling

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Speaker 1: sheet music. So as CAP, which is the American Society

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Speaker 1: of Composers, Authors and Publishers, which is the organization that

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Speaker 1: deals a lot with these kinds of music rights, wasn't

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Speaker 1: founded until nineteen fourteen, So in eight the whole question

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Speaker 1: of who can sing Happy Birthday and where was not

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Speaker 1: really a legal question. Well, and it wasn't happy birthday yet,

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Speaker 1: so it was good anighting at that point. Still, so

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Speaker 1: when exactly Good Morning to all transitioned from being a

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Speaker 1: classroom greeting to a birthday standard is actually not clear.

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Speaker 1: At some point a second stanza, the happy Birthday to

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Speaker 1: you lyrics that we all know, began appearing in publications

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Speaker 1: of the song. The first known book including the combination

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Speaker 1: is The Beginner's Book of Songs, which was published by

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Speaker 1: a piano manufacturer company, the Cable Company, in nine twelve,

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Speaker 1: and it was later republished by the Cable Company in

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Speaker 1: the One Best Songs and probably in some other editions

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Speaker 1: of those two books. Now it also appears in some

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Speaker 1: other places, though, is the two stands a Good Morning

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Speaker 1: and Happy Birthday versions. The first of these is The

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Speaker 1: Golden Book of Favorite Songs, which was compiled and edited

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Speaker 1: by N. H. H in nineteen fifteen, and the other

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Speaker 1: is The Children's Book of Praise and Worship, which was

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Speaker 1: published by the Warner Press in ninety eight. And there

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Speaker 1: are several hymnals and compilations that were edited by Robert H.

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Speaker 1: Coleman as well uh throughout those years that include both

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Speaker 1: stanzas and there's also there's actually been some debate about

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Speaker 1: whether Coleman wrote the Happy Birthday lyrics. Um Robert brown Eyes,

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Speaker 1: who will talk about a lot in this podcast, wrote

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Speaker 1: a paper called Copyright in the World's most Popular Song

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Speaker 1: and he mentions in his arata page for the article

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Speaker 1: that Coleman's grandson has actually asserted that his grandfather penned

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Speaker 1: the lyrics, but since those lyrics had been published as

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Speaker 1: early as nineteen twelve, which is long before Coleman's compilations,

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Speaker 1: it seems a little bit unlikely. However, a lot of

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Speaker 1: articles on the subject seemed to incorrectly cite nine songbook

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Speaker 1: that Coleman edited as the first appearance of the second

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Speaker 1: stands of Birthday greeting. But brown Eye has really he's

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Speaker 1: pretty much a Happy Birthday scholar at this point, and

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Speaker 1: he has unearthed these um like the Cable company publications

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Speaker 1: and some of these others where it showed up. So

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Speaker 1: it doesn't really seem likely that um Coleman actually wrote

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Speaker 1: that stanza, although in his own notes brown Eyes mentions

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Speaker 1: it's there's very simple words. It's entirely conceivable that he

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Speaker 1: wrote them, but that they already existed, Like two people

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Speaker 1: could have come up with those same lyrics. Right. I

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Speaker 1: love that we live in a world where so one

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Speaker 1: can be the happy Birthday scholar. He's really done a

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Speaker 1: great deal of research on it. Yes, So thanks to

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Speaker 1: radio and talkies, the Happy Birthday version of the song

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Speaker 1: became really popular. It's sort of filled a nature of

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Speaker 1: birthday celebration songs. Yeah, there really wasn't another to the

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Speaker 1: best of my knowledge prior to that. There doesn't really

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Speaker 1: seem to be another now except for they might be Giants,

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Speaker 1: which we just talked about, which is only a replacement

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Speaker 1: if you're a nerd. Well, and there's a version from

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Speaker 1: the Simpsons that I like to sing, but that's completely different,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's only on there because they didn't

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Speaker 1: want to pay the licensing to do Happy Birthday. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But By the time the song was becoming a standard

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Speaker 1: part of birthday celebrations. We should note that Mildred was

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Speaker 1: already deceased. She died at the age of fifty six

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Speaker 1: in June of n uh But as the song's popularity expanded,

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Speaker 1: it started showing up in films and plays, and it

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Speaker 1: was actually even used for Western unions first singing telegram.

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Speaker 1: So the song was kind of taking on a life

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Speaker 1: of its own as the Happy Birthday song right and then,

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Speaker 1: as often happens, people kind of realized that their work

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Speaker 1: was being appropriated without them being compensated for it. So

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Speaker 1: Jessica the Sister, the third Hill Sister, stepped in after

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Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty four when the song appeared in the

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Speaker 1: Irving Berlin musical as Thousands Cheer, with no credit or

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Speaker 1: compensation going to Patty, who was at that point the

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Speaker 1: surviving of the two sisters who had created the song.

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Speaker 1: So Jessica wanted to ensure that her sisters received credit

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Speaker 1: for their creation and any compensation they would doue and

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Speaker 1: so in August of n four she actually filed suit

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Speaker 1: against Broadway producer Sam Harris and then eventually also named

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Speaker 1: in that suit was his production company, the composer Irving Berlin,

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Speaker 1: and the playwright Moss Heart that worked on his Thousands Cheer,

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Speaker 1: and the case never got to judgment. It kind of

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Speaker 1: petered out. They didn't pursue it, but it did get

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Speaker 1: into the deposition stage, and both Jessica and Patty gave depositions.

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Speaker 1: And this is a snippet of Patty's deposition. So do

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Speaker 1: you want to read Patty's march the little role play?

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Speaker 1: So Patty said, while only the words good Morning to

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Speaker 1: all were put in the book, we used it for

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Speaker 1: goodbye to you, happy journey to you, Happy Christmas to you,

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Speaker 1: Happy New Year to you, Happy vacation to you, and

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Speaker 1: so forth and so on. Did you also use the

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Speaker 1: words happy birthday to you. We certainly did with every

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Speaker 1: birthday celebration in the school. So Patty was establishing that

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Speaker 1: when they were using this as a teaching song back

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Speaker 1: in the Good Morning to All days, they were completely

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Speaker 1: changing up the lyrics as needed to fit virtually any occasion,

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Speaker 1: because again they were still using it to teach children,

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Speaker 1: and it was easily easy for children to repeat back right.

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Speaker 1: So Jessica testified that while there were many version of

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Speaker 1: the lyrics, to her sister's song. She particularly remembered singing

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Speaker 1: good morning to all and Happy Birthday to you. And

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Speaker 1: as I said, the case seems to have petered out.

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Speaker 1: There was neither a judgment nor a settlement, and it

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Speaker 1: actually came up later in additional copyright discussion that the

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Speaker 1: case could be revisited. But despite the fact that it

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Speaker 1: kind of got put on pause at this point, Jessica

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Speaker 1: went ahead and secured the copyright to Happy Birthday to

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Speaker 1: You in late nineteen four and then she worked with

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Speaker 1: the Clayton F. Summi Company of Chicago to publish and

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Speaker 1: copyright the tune is Happy Birthday in nineteen thirty five.

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Speaker 1: So at the time, copyright laws would have given them

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Speaker 1: at twenty eight year term plus one renewal of the

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Speaker 1: same length, and that would have seen the song move

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Speaker 1: into public domain in but copyright law has changed through

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Speaker 1: the years, so much so in the Copyright Act of

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six, the law was amended to grant copyright

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Speaker 1: for seventy five years after the date of publication, which

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Speaker 1: then would have moved the expiration to Then the passing

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Speaker 1: of the Copyright Term Extension Act added in another twenty

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Speaker 1: years to the copyright, so that time now extends to

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Speaker 1: and what's interesting now is to kind of see where

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Speaker 1: the ownership has landed on this song. A few years

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Speaker 1: after the Clayton f. Sumi Company published and copyrighted it,

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Speaker 1: a New York accountant named John Singstack purchased the company

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Speaker 1: and renamed it Birch Tree Limited. In Warner Chapel purchased

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Speaker 1: Birch Tree, which then became Semmy Birchard Music. Summy Birchard

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Speaker 1: is Time as part of Time Warner, which makes Happy

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Speaker 1: Birthday a part of the Time Warner Groups holdings. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: now royalties for performances of Happy Birthday are actually split

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Speaker 1: between Time Warner and the Hill Foundation. Jessica Hill died

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Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty one, so royalties for Happy Birthday have

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Speaker 1: since been paid into the Hill Foundation Trusts, which she

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Speaker 1: established as part of her will. And this is the

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Speaker 1: part that to me becomes the pivotal moment in the

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Speaker 1: whole You can't sing happy Birthday is it's Time Warner

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Speaker 1: is a big company. How does an enormous company to

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Speaker 1: own something as simple as Happy Birthday to you? So?

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Speaker 1: Patti Smith Hill died eleven years after Happy Birthday was copyrighted,

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Speaker 1: which was on ma that was her death, that was

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Speaker 1: when she died. Neither she nor Mildred had married or

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Speaker 1: had children. And who receives the Hill Foundation's money isn't

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Speaker 1: disclosed anywhere, but it's believed that it goes either to

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Speaker 1: charity or to the Hill's nephew, or maybe a split

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Speaker 1: between the two of them. And it's estimated that the

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Speaker 1: rights to the song are licensed approximately two hundred times

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Speaker 1: per year, and that's on a sliding payment scale, kind

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Speaker 1: of like what your audience reaches and what you're likely

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Speaker 1: to make off of it will determine how much they

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Speaker 1: charge you to perform it in public. But it brings

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Speaker 1: in roughly two million dollars annually, which I think is

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Speaker 1: a little mind boggling. It is is, and it makes

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Speaker 1: me wish I had written a four line song that

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Speaker 1: could be licensed by everyone all the time. UH. And

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Speaker 1: there have been a number of legal actions through the

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Speaker 1: years to enforce their rights to Happy Birthday. UH. And

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Speaker 1: if any of our listeners ever watched the show Sports Night,

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Speaker 1: they actually had an episode about it where one of

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Speaker 1: the characters sang it to his co host on the broadcast,

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Speaker 1: not knowing that it was a copyrighted piece, and then

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Speaker 1: of course lawyers got involved and there was much um

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Speaker 1: incredulous talk of no, really that's copyrighted. But but the

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Speaker 1: legality involved in this song has actually come into question

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Speaker 1: in recent years. So going back to the work of

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Speaker 1: Robert browne Ie and his paper copyright in the World's

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Speaker 1: most popular song, and just to establish sort of his credentials,

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Speaker 1: he's the co director of the Intellectual Property Law Program,

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Speaker 1: he's co director of the Deean Dinwoodie Center for Intellectual

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Speaker 1: Property Studies, and he is a member of the managing

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Speaker 1: board of Munich Intellectual Property Law Center, all of that

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Speaker 1: at George Washington University or the first two. And he

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Speaker 1: has really questioned the legitimacy of this copyright. So she's,

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Speaker 1: you know, a law professor who studies copyright law specifically,

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Speaker 1: and he has, like we've said, really become a scholar

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Speaker 1: on this matter. His work is impeccable in terms of

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Speaker 1: like the records he keeps will link to all of

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Speaker 1: this so you can really follow along his research that

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00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,240
Speaker 1: he's gone through through the years. And he even his

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Speaker 1: errata page online gets updated constantly with when people have

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Speaker 1: written in with other pieces of the puzzle or things

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Speaker 1: that they have heard that can be verified about sort

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Speaker 1: of things that have happened along the way with Happy Birthday.

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Speaker 1: Those all get updated, it seems quite constantly. So it's

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Speaker 1: a really fascinating read, particularly if you are into law.

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Speaker 1: So in addition to being the Happy Birthday scholar, he's

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Speaker 1: also essentially an expert on intellectual property and is actively

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Speaker 1: looking at this all the time, and he makes the

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Speaker 1: case that the song is really similar to folk music

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Speaker 1: that predated it. To quote part of his paper, he says, Moreover,

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Speaker 1: many have suggested that notwithstanding the attribution of the song

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Speaker 1: to the Hill Sisters, it is so much like other

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00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 1: previous songs that it should be treated as having arisen

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Speaker 1: from a folk tradition rather than the creative talents of

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Speaker 1: a particular author. And in some cases they even link

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Speaker 1: that back to Mildred's expertise in negro spirituals and how

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Speaker 1: she studied folk music extensively, and how clearly that's feeding

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Speaker 1: into her writing of this, because that first piece that

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Speaker 1: she wrote theoretically as Johan Tonsor was Happening, that was

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Speaker 1: published very close to the time that this song was

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00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 1: also published. So there's some discussion there right. Brown Eyes

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00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 1: also points out that there's no clear authorship of the

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Speaker 1: Happy Birthday lyrics, So while Patty said in her deposition

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Speaker 1: that they sang the Happy Birthday version of the song,

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Speaker 1: it's never explicitly stated that she wrote those exact words.

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Speaker 1: And he also draw attention to the fact that he's

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Speaker 1: never been able to find a renewal to the copyright.

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Speaker 1: He has found filings for other specific arrangements of the music,

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Speaker 1: but this suggests that the tune wouldn't have qualified to

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Speaker 1: benefit from the extension afforded by the Copyright Act of

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six, so that they had actually kind of

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00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 1: dropped the ball. Someone had dropped the ball on their

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00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 1: end in terms of that initial twenty eight years and

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Speaker 1: a renewal that was allowed. The renewal never that it

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Speaker 1: didn't happen. If it ever did happen, we don't have

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Speaker 1: a clear documentation of that, right. So Rowney's research is

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00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: extremely thorough. He finds all kinds of flaws in the

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00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,959
Speaker 1: life of the composition and all of its various layers,

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Speaker 1: apart from the major one of not being able to

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00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,479
Speaker 1: find the original renewal of the copyright. So He's pointed

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00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 1: out lots and lots of problems in its copyright status,

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00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 1: and don't worry about it. As we said, you could

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Speaker 1: still sing it at a private birthday party because that's

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00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 1: not considered public performance and nobody's making money off of

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00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 1: you singing happy birthday to your friend. Right and in

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00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: uh the errata that Browne's mentions, he says that there's

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00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,880
Speaker 1: a gray area even for waite staff at a restaurant

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00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,479
Speaker 1: performing this song for guests. Some people have argued, like

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00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: that's an extra thing. It's not something those people are

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00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: being paid for, like you're not paid performers. He points

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Speaker 1: out that you could consider that an indirect profitmaking thing

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Speaker 1: because it's like a value add to your meal. Um.

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Speaker 1: But in most establishments air on the side of caution.

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Speaker 1: And that's why when you go out to you know,

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Speaker 1: your friendly neighborhood or chain bar and grill, they sing

394
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: like a really weird custom birthday song. Right, they sang

395
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Speaker 1: it on the nerd Boat. There's a there's a running

396
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Speaker 1: joke on the nerd Boat, which is a vacation that

397
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: I take annually, that that it's always Mike Ferman's birthday.

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Speaker 1: Mike Ferman is a comedian and musician if you don't

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Speaker 1: know who that is. And and so there were there

400
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 1: was more than one singing of Happy Birthday on the

401
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 1: boat to Mike Ferman in various different versions. Now there

402
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: was it was the normal one, just with somebody holding

403
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 1: the final you for as long as possible. So I

404
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,160
Speaker 1: kind of wonder, now is the cruise line are they

405
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: paying some kind of royalty or are they hoping for

406
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 1: gray area? They're in international waters, so who knows well.

407
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,439
Speaker 1: And one of the things that Browne mentions to, and

408
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: it's come up if you google the legality of Happy

409
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: Birthday and its copyright, it will come up in a

410
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: lot of legal blogs because it has been discussed a

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00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: lot in recent years. And several people point out that

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00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 1: at this point it's possible that, um, there has been

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00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: a little bit of a back off on trying to

414
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, follow through and make sure people pay license

415
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: and going after people that don't get license to performance,

416
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 1: because it could draw attention to the fact that there

417
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,919
Speaker 1: might be some uh, sort of improperly filled out forms,

418
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,439
Speaker 1: some blank holes in the legal line of ownership of

419
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: this song. And so at this point it's kind of like, no,

420
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: that's fine, it's where a okay with that? Yeah, and

421
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: it would I mean brown I mentioned specifically in his

422
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: paper that even if someone wanted to go after this,

423
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: you could because it is there are problems, but it

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00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 1: would be extremely costly, particularly because at this point there

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00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: have been so many licensees and so much money paid

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00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: to Time Warner and the previous owners before that, that

427
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: it would get legally very messy and cause just a

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Speaker 1: lot of time and money to be spent. And most

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00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: people don't think it's worth it, right, But you would

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00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: need to just know from the outset that you needed

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00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: to have more money than Time Warner, which is a

432
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 1: quite a lot of money. That's a pretty high bar

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00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: to set to start a legal proceeding, right, Maybe not

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00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 1: more money than Time Warner, but more money than Time

435
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: Warner would be really willing to spend on it. Yeah,

436
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: So yes, that would probably be a lot. Yeah. So

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00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 1: it's in such a simple song with such a sort

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00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 1: of fascinating history. I think it's fascinating to read sort

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00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: of the depositions about there's much more than what we read.

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00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 1: Just these people, you know, being asked about this simple,

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00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: simple kindergarten songs, heany so much for joining us on

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00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,959
Speaker 1: this Saturday. Since this episode is out of the archive,

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00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: if you heard an email address or Facebook U r

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Speaker 1: L or something similar over the course of the show,

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00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: that could be obsolete now. Our current email address is

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00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: History Podcast at i heart radio dot com. Our old

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00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: how Stuff Works email address no longer works, and you

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00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: can find us all over social media at missed in History.

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Speaker 1: And you can subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts,

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Speaker 1: Google podcasts, the I heart Radio app, and wherever else

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Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class

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00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts

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00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: from I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.