1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,600
Speaker 1: How do refrigerators keep food cold? Who really invented the radio?

2
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,039
Speaker 1: What was the worst video game of all time? On

3
00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,560
Speaker 1: Tech Stuff, we answer these questions and more. You can

4
00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,160
Speaker 1: get brand new episodes of tech Stuff every Wednesday on Spotify,

5
00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:25,120
Speaker 1: Google Play, iTunes, and anywhere else you get podcasts. Welcome

6
00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,960
Speaker 1: to Stuff Mob never told you from how Stuff Works

7
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:36,360
Speaker 1: dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline

8
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,320
Speaker 1: and I'm Kristen, And today we're continuing our deep dive

9
00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:45,000
Speaker 1: this week into discussing queer fashion, but this time we're

10
00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,440
Speaker 1: doing it with a couple of special guests who we

11
00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:53,400
Speaker 1: first started speaking with well via email. During south By Southwest,

12
00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:58,120
Speaker 1: we try to get in touch with some awesome folks

13
00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,720
Speaker 1: in the queer fashion community, but you know, south By Southwest,

14
00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,560
Speaker 1: it's so busy, and we missed them, We missed their panel,

15
00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,240
Speaker 1: and so we were really lucky and managed to nab

16
00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,759
Speaker 1: them for a fantastic interview that we hope you guys

17
00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 1: will enjoy. And so today you will be hearing from

18
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,360
Speaker 1: Leon Wu, the founder and CEO of Sharp Suiting, Sunny

19
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,559
Speaker 1: or Um, the founding editor of style website Queer and Asia.

20
00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,000
Speaker 1: I Gire, the beauty editor of Auto Straddle, and you

21
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,600
Speaker 1: mentioned south By Southwest Caroline and that we unfortunately were

22
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,640
Speaker 1: not able to go to their panel, which we did

23
00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:40,080
Speaker 1: want to attend because it was about queer style, visual activism,

24
00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:46,120
Speaker 1: and fashions Frontier. So, uh, this group and also um,

25
00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,400
Speaker 1: the designer who started dapper que, which is the leading

26
00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:54,320
Speaker 1: style website for masculine presenting women and trans identified people,

27
00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,560
Speaker 1: were talking all about this concept of queer style as

28
00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,800
Speaker 1: an art form, and also the new fashion frontier and

29
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,600
Speaker 1: and another branch of this too is how mainstream fashion

30
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:12,640
Speaker 1: has kind of been co opting a lot of queer fashion. So, um,

31
00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,720
Speaker 1: I think it's such a great opportunity to get this

32
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,760
Speaker 1: you know, diverse range of perspectives and one that we

33
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,919
Speaker 1: started hearing from actually from our listeners in response to

34
00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,600
Speaker 1: our maternity Clothes Fashion History episode a while back. Yeah,

35
00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,840
Speaker 1: that's right. We heard from some great fashion leaning listeners

36
00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:38,640
Speaker 1: after that episode who had created maternity lines specifically for

37
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 1: uh butch lesbians or masculine identifying people, or really anyone

38
00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,800
Speaker 1: who felt that they didn't quite fit into that frills

39
00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:53,079
Speaker 1: and polka dots maternity market out there, and they stressed

40
00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:57,680
Speaker 1: how important it was to represent those people whoever, those

41
00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,320
Speaker 1: people are who who are often left behind in conversations

42
00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,680
Speaker 1: about fashion or just in looking at fashion in general.

43
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,160
Speaker 1: And so that's why we were really excited to speak

44
00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,200
Speaker 1: with this group today because, like Kristen said, they do

45
00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,840
Speaker 1: have a diverse array of backgrounds from being active in

46
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,880
Speaker 1: design to being active in the media talking about fashion.

47
00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:24,520
Speaker 1: So in this conversation, which is really a continuation of

48
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,760
Speaker 1: our last podcast, which was about how Prince revolutionize the

49
00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,640
Speaker 1: concept of androgynous fashion, So you should absolutely go back

50
00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:34,880
Speaker 1: and listen to that for I mean a Prince, but

51
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:39,280
Speaker 1: also a little bit of a primer on queer fashion. UM.

52
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,600
Speaker 1: But we're gonna be talking with first of all, Leon Wou.

53
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,920
Speaker 1: Like you said, he's a founder and CEO of Sharp Suiting,

54
00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,000
Speaker 1: which is an a gender luxury clothing brand that creates

55
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:54,560
Speaker 1: custom and ready to wear clothing, accessories and lifestyle products.

56
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,960
Speaker 1: And Sharp Suiting is especially busy right now because swimsuits

57
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,600
Speaker 1: season is upon us and it's actually the first clothing

58
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:09,520
Speaker 1: company to focus on butch swimwear. UM. And as part

59
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,520
Speaker 1: of creating this ready to wear line and also custom clothing,

60
00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,960
Speaker 1: they created a high tech body measurement system to better

61
00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:24,000
Speaker 1: fit clothes on masculine identifying people not just butch lesbians

62
00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,880
Speaker 1: or trans men, but also sis men as well. So

63
00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,279
Speaker 1: I mean talk about taking all sorts of body types

64
00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,359
Speaker 1: and presentations into account. Yeah, and Sunny Orham is a

65
00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,240
Speaker 1: queer style expert who founded that style website quare that

66
00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:43,080
Speaker 1: I mentioned in twleven and they're the first trans blogger

67
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,279
Speaker 1: to be sponsored by top Man. And Sunny described their

68
00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 1: goal in founding Quare as fighting oppression through fashion because

69
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,200
Speaker 1: they said fashion can absolutely be a form of activism

70
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,280
Speaker 1: and this is something that we'll talk with all three

71
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,159
Speaker 1: guests about in more detail in the episode. Well, and

72
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,320
Speaker 1: that also echoes our episode from a while back on

73
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,280
Speaker 1: a so called faction and the plus size blogging movement

74
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,080
Speaker 1: that really started a number of years ago and it's

75
00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,520
Speaker 1: coming to its own um quite recently. Um. And then

76
00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,280
Speaker 1: finally we have Asia Agrey, who's the beauty editor at

77
00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,839
Speaker 1: auto Straddle, which is a site that we have referenced

78
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,160
Speaker 1: on so many stuff I've never told you episodes. And

79
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,640
Speaker 1: in addition to auto Straddle, Asia also leads the style

80
00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,919
Speaker 1: blog Fit for Phem and as an advocate for queer

81
00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:39,600
Speaker 1: women of color. Yeah, so this is such a fantastic conversation,

82
00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,679
Speaker 1: if I do say so myself, thanks to our really

83
00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,120
Speaker 1: fascinating and talented guests. So should we let the people

84
00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:54,600
Speaker 1: hear it? Absolutely, let's roll to get started. I'd love

85
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,200
Speaker 1: to have you guys just introduce yourselves and tell our

86
00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,560
Speaker 1: listeners what you do. So so an We'll start with you. Hi,

87
00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,240
Speaker 1: I'm Stunny or might run the fashion website quare q

88
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,400
Speaker 1: w E a R. And it's a style website for

89
00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:14,520
Speaker 1: people who transcend social norms through fashion, performance and gender expression.

90
00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,360
Speaker 1: And I'm based in Boston. I am Asia Girey. I

91
00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,400
Speaker 1: am the current beauty editor at auto Straddle, which is

92
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:26,560
Speaker 1: the largest independent news media website for queer women as

93
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,279
Speaker 1: well as the Gosh. I guess to call me the

94
00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,960
Speaker 1: founding editor of Fit for a FM, which I've been

95
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,960
Speaker 1: working on since two thousand and eight as a as

96
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,719
Speaker 1: a place and source of inspiration for fens together and

97
00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,599
Speaker 1: get inspiration and just kind of find their own people

98
00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,080
Speaker 1: when it comes to style and navigating the world as

99
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,400
Speaker 1: a fem My name is Leon Woo and I am

100
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,480
Speaker 1: the founder and CEO Sharp and that's sharp with an

101
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,600
Speaker 1: E at the end uh suiting And we make classic

102
00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,760
Speaker 1: and modern clothing for all genders. Okay, so if you

103
00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,000
Speaker 1: could also now fill me in on your backgrounds how

104
00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,599
Speaker 1: I'm really curious about how you guys each ended up

105
00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,640
Speaker 1: in the fashion and fashion adjacent realms. Sunny, do you

106
00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:18,280
Speaker 1: want to start? Yeah? So I kind of fell into it. Um.

107
00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,200
Speaker 1: I was doing music in college, and then when I graduated,

108
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,520
Speaker 1: I started exploring my identity and style more and I

109
00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,840
Speaker 1: kind of just fell into it. I discovered fashion blogging,

110
00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,000
Speaker 1: and I decided to try to create a space that

111
00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,720
Speaker 1: was uniquely queer, where we could all see each other

112
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,280
Speaker 1: and where I could share my outfits that I was

113
00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,640
Speaker 1: discovering I loved. And then it just it just grew

114
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,760
Speaker 1: from there. I just kept kept blogging, and people wrote

115
00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,520
Speaker 1: in and asked questions, and people started writing for us,

116
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,160
Speaker 1: and it grew into what it is today. Did you

117
00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,840
Speaker 1: find that people really felt that they needed what you

118
00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 1: were putting out there? Yeah? People were immediately drawn to

119
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:04,280
Speaker 1: it because there was so little um advice for for

120
00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,560
Speaker 1: queer people. Um, I mean, for for me representing people

121
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,239
Speaker 1: who are female assigned birth, but trying to find men's

122
00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,040
Speaker 1: clothes that fit that was really like, um, that was

123
00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,280
Speaker 1: a need. I mean, we didn't have companies like Sharp

124
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,560
Speaker 1: yet so people just wanted any advice they could get.

125
00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:22,760
Speaker 1: What about you, Asia, how did you end up in

126
00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,920
Speaker 1: the fashion realm? Kind of a similar story? Um in

127
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,559
Speaker 1: two thousand eight, what I started style blogs or both

128
00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:35,280
Speaker 1: new and really sort of blowing up in the biguitous everywhere.

129
00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,040
Speaker 1: And I didn't see myself and any of them. I didn't.

130
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,160
Speaker 1: I didn't see a lot of women of color to start,

131
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,360
Speaker 1: and I didn't really see any that were queer women,

132
00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,640
Speaker 1: especially queer women of color. And I've been the kind

133
00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:51,839
Speaker 1: of person that people always have been like, I love

134
00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,080
Speaker 1: what you're wearing, I love your makeup, I love this

135
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,800
Speaker 1: and that, and who came to me for advice and

136
00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,160
Speaker 1: wanted me to shopping with them? Um? And so I thought, like,

137
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,280
Speaker 1: I love this and I should just put it out

138
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,880
Speaker 1: there into the world, um and see what happens. I

139
00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,400
Speaker 1: didn't have any real kind of like lofty expectations. I

140
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,280
Speaker 1: just wanted to like stake out my place in the

141
00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,839
Speaker 1: world of style blogs because it seems like something really

142
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,880
Speaker 1: fun and cool and and I thought it would be great.

143
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,040
Speaker 1: Um if I did it, then maybe other women would

144
00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,079
Speaker 1: do it. And that definitely happened, especially in San Francisco Away.

145
00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,120
Speaker 1: Back in the day, you had UM Lesbians and sf UM,

146
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,960
Speaker 1: which had a couple of other offshoots that just became

147
00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,720
Speaker 1: sort of a very photo heavy representation of queer women

148
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:45,920
Speaker 1: UM and queer and trance people actually and what that

149
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,040
Speaker 1: style looked like at the time. And then from there

150
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,640
Speaker 1: there were a few other ones that were more plus

151
00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,920
Speaker 1: sized fans and more focused on fans of color UM.

152
00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,679
Speaker 1: So it was really great to see myself become not

153
00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,200
Speaker 1: the only one out there UM. And that just over

154
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,960
Speaker 1: time with the fem conferences that used to go on,

155
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,240
Speaker 1: and UM auto Straddle coming into play and working on

156
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,320
Speaker 1: things with them and writing for them a little bit,

157
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,120
Speaker 1: just all kinds of snowball into this awesome thing where

158
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,360
Speaker 1: another beauty editor, why do you think a blog like

159
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,720
Speaker 1: fit for fem or auto straddle? Why is it important

160
00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,680
Speaker 1: to show feminine fashion that's different from like more traditional

161
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,480
Speaker 1: quote unquote beauty magazines like Glamour? How did how did

162
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,320
Speaker 1: those differ from the more mainstream feminine fashion, right, and

163
00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:39,080
Speaker 1: not to insinuate that straight feminine women are just sort

164
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,240
Speaker 1: of blindly doing what they're told or anything, but I

165
00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,160
Speaker 1: think especially for fems, and this was really highlighted in

166
00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,600
Speaker 1: the post that Sonny did featuring fourteen fans of color,

167
00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:54,160
Speaker 1: that was just incredible. Um. Being fem as a queer

168
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:59,760
Speaker 1: woman or a trans woman is so radical in its

169
00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,160
Speaker 1: re clamation of femininity and in sort of hijacking it

170
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,920
Speaker 1: away from a very heterosexual world, in a very sort

171
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,920
Speaker 1: of binary world that has very very strong and pervasive

172
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 1: ideas about what women are supposed to look and act like. Um.

173
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 1: And it's interesting being a mother of a straight teenager

174
00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,240
Speaker 1: as well, watching how that influence in the media and

175
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:28,160
Speaker 1: the media representation of women in general is so negative

176
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,199
Speaker 1: and so laden with with just these horrible ideas that

177
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,240
Speaker 1: that tell women what they're supposed to look and act like.

178
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,520
Speaker 1: And I feel like when as a queer woman or

179
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,960
Speaker 1: a transwoman, you embrace all of that femininity um, both

180
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,120
Speaker 1: inside and outside. Aesthetically, it's it says a lot. It's

181
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:51,320
Speaker 1: it's a very political statement, and it is really difficult

182
00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,800
Speaker 1: to navigate the world in that way because at the

183
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,160
Speaker 1: first glance, the first take is sort of like, this

184
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,240
Speaker 1: is for all consumption, this is for the male gase um,

185
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,720
Speaker 1: and constantly fighting against that is you have to be

186
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,080
Speaker 1: really strong to do that. Yeah, I definitely want to

187
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,439
Speaker 1: put a pen in the political statement comment for sure. Um,

188
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,959
Speaker 1: but Leon, I want you to tell our listeners how

189
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 1: you got involved in the fashion world. Yes, so Ever,

190
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,720
Speaker 1: since I was little, I've always have a strong desire

191
00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,319
Speaker 1: or love for menouness wear. Um, Like I wanted to

192
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,800
Speaker 1: wear my dad's clothes growing up. Um, I would actually

193
00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,880
Speaker 1: literally sneak into his closet and try on his clothes,

194
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,600
Speaker 1: put on his ties, you know, always watch him tie

195
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,920
Speaker 1: and tie in the mirror. I was just fascinated by it.

196
00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,720
Speaker 1: And you know, I'd read kind of GQ like on

197
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:48,680
Speaker 1: my owner in secret as us growing up. And um,

198
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,720
Speaker 1: you know, when I was twenty one, just out of college,

199
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,720
Speaker 1: I joined a drag king troop called the Lost Boys

200
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,440
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, and through there, you know, I kind

201
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:03,359
Speaker 1: of learned the art of of styling or fashioning masculinity

202
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:10,160
Speaker 1: on stage. I quickly became the one who was the

203
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,280
Speaker 1: organizer of all costumes for my troop. Um that later

204
00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,319
Speaker 1: extended throughout the years and I joined another troop called

205
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,600
Speaker 1: the Beauty Kings of Los Angeles as well, and became

206
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,600
Speaker 1: from a co producer of a show that's a queer

207
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:29,040
Speaker 1: gender bending show called Bent so you know that all

208
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,640
Speaker 1: of that has kind of progressed up through about a

209
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,320
Speaker 1: year ago when Sharp got crazy busy, um in a

210
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:39,840
Speaker 1: good way. Uh. And you know, in terms of Sharp

211
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,079
Speaker 1: and how that started, you know, UM, I did have

212
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,400
Speaker 1: a fashion design concept right before I went to business school,

213
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,719
Speaker 1: UH called Fade Designs, and we focused on kind of

214
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:54,480
Speaker 1: butched swimwear as an alternative means of of you know,

215
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:59,400
Speaker 1: wearing uh swimsuits that did not fit into the very

216
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:05,440
Speaker 1: buying ary um swimwear uh industry. So uh that was

217
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,600
Speaker 1: about to go into production, and then instead I went

218
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,280
Speaker 1: to business school and that was super busy, and all

219
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,920
Speaker 1: I could do is focus on networking and meeting my

220
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:18,080
Speaker 1: classmates and recruiting there um and studying. Uh. And then

221
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,440
Speaker 1: after business school, you know, I got kind of comfortable

222
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,800
Speaker 1: my rather corporate job right after. But then you know,

223
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,440
Speaker 1: more and more of my friends are getting married or

224
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,560
Speaker 1: attending weddings where they wanted to wear suits. And I

225
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,240
Speaker 1: had made some connections in school with Taylor's in various

226
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,280
Speaker 1: cities internationally. Um, during my travels, it was just something

227
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,320
Speaker 1: I was checked out. When I was on a business

228
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,120
Speaker 1: school trek or trip with my classmates, I would talk

229
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,760
Speaker 1: to different Taylor's. UM I talked to Taylor's in Saville Row,

230
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:57,120
Speaker 1: in London, UH, in Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, New York

231
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,560
Speaker 1: UH and you know something, I noticed that there was

232
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,360
Speaker 1: always a specific process that they all did as a

233
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:09,200
Speaker 1: rather archaic um UH segment of fashion, and I wanted

234
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,360
Speaker 1: to kind of revolutionize that. I also knew a special

235
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,000
Speaker 1: way and how to measure people who identified similar as me,

236
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:22,120
Speaker 1: like people who identify as either masculine of center, masculine leaning,

237
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,400
Speaker 1: or trans men. And I knew how to fit clothes

238
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:30,600
Speaker 1: on people who identified exactly this way. So UM I

239
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,880
Speaker 1: started Sharp actually as a side operation, and UM started

240
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:40,280
Speaker 1: making suits for friends and myself. Again, weddings was a

241
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,880
Speaker 1: big reason for doing that, and within the first year

242
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:49,240
Speaker 1: of UH existing as a business, we sold a hundred suits.

243
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,600
Speaker 1: And that's when I kind of took the leap of

244
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,320
Speaker 1: faith to leave my very financially secure corporate job and

245
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,120
Speaker 1: jump full time into Sharp. We had a Kickstarter we

246
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,800
Speaker 1: planned for within the first two months, and we raised

247
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,120
Speaker 1: sixty nine K, exceeding our goal of six c K.

248
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,800
Speaker 1: And after that we raised some more funds from friends

249
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,000
Speaker 1: and family, and you know the rest is kind of

250
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,440
Speaker 1: it just kind of took off and we're heading in

251
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 1: a direction where uh, we are being all inclusive. Uh,

252
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,240
Speaker 1: not just two people in my immediate community, but anybody

253
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 1: who wants to wear sharp cloth clothing. So you'll see

254
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,000
Speaker 1: a lot of campaigns this year where we are branching

255
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,400
Speaker 1: out a little bit more um mainstream and trying to

256
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,360
Speaker 1: get them to be aware of uh you know, what

257
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,680
Speaker 1: the brand is and what it was aspired by. Okay,

258
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,000
Speaker 1: well so and really anybody can pick up this question

259
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,640
Speaker 1: who wants to go first? But I'm really interested in

260
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 1: how uh you guys feel the queer fashion scene has changed,

261
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,400
Speaker 1: evolved and grown from when you first developed an interest

262
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,480
Speaker 1: in clothes and fashion, um, all the way up to

263
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:06,080
Speaker 1: when you started working professionally and and now today. I

264
00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,320
Speaker 1: mean I've seen a huge evolution just from when I

265
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,040
Speaker 1: started queer and it's now been almost five years. Even

266
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,160
Speaker 1: looking for people to feature, it was hard to find

267
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 1: people who really had their own sense of style, um,

268
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:27,240
Speaker 1: because when when there's so little representation of queer style, you, um,

269
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:28,840
Speaker 1: it's hard to figure out how to address I mean,

270
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,879
Speaker 1: like you're there's like Shane from the L Word and

271
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 1: then you know, Ellen degenerous, and it's just like these

272
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,760
Speaker 1: a few celebrities here and there. And then I mean,

273
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,639
Speaker 1: of course we had we had Asia already for for

274
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,720
Speaker 1: fem style, but um yeah, it's just people didn't really

275
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,080
Speaker 1: know how to dress and we're asking lots of questions,

276
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,280
Speaker 1: simple questions like how do I match my belt to

277
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,800
Speaker 1: my shoes or something. And as time went on, I

278
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,720
Speaker 1: started to see a growth in everyone. Um they started

279
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,959
Speaker 1: experimenting with path turns, with different styles, and it just

280
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:08,360
Speaker 1: seems like the queer community through social media was starting

281
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,920
Speaker 1: to develop a sense of style. And it's just been

282
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,280
Speaker 1: really amazing to watch everyone grow. Every year someone comes

283
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 1: out with something different. It's just really amazing. I um, Leon,

284
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,679
Speaker 1: when you did all that the drag Troops, was that

285
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 1: like the early two thousands, mid mid two thousand's. Yes, yeah,

286
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 1: I feel like I came out way too late in life.

287
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 1: It's one of my big regrets. I didn't know, but

288
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 1: I feel like I came out in the very early

289
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,359
Speaker 1: two thousands and just sort of belossomed in a time

290
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,439
Speaker 1: through the mid to to late two thousand's when something

291
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,520
Speaker 1: just really special was happening in the queer queer world

292
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 1: in terms of just like creativity and performance and music

293
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,919
Speaker 1: and and that's so much of that manifested in style. UM.

294
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 1: I feel so lucky to have been there for all

295
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,960
Speaker 1: of that, and I miss There's a lot I miss

296
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,800
Speaker 1: about those days. There's a lot that I'm happy to

297
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,640
Speaker 1: leave in the past. But I just I don't know

298
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 1: what's happened, and I think that there's a lot of

299
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:15,000
Speaker 1: really incredible stuff happening now. But it's almost like, because

300
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,320
Speaker 1: there was so much that we still were working towards

301
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 1: and fighting for as a queer community at large, those

302
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,960
Speaker 1: spaces and that community was sacred in a different way,

303
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 1: and and because it was almost denser, it was more

304
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 1: powerful in those sort of create creative realms. Not that

305
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist now. I just feel like it's become

306
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 1: more dilute across the board, which is great because it

307
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 1: means that it's reaching more people and people have more

308
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,760
Speaker 1: options and more roads to go down. But yeah, it's

309
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,160
Speaker 1: it's been a very interesting shift, I think the last

310
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:55,360
Speaker 1: ten tenor so years. Yeah, I have to agree with

311
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,400
Speaker 1: both Sonny and Asia. Yeah, I have seen a lot

312
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,040
Speaker 1: of development. It's uh since the two thousand's UM, but

313
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,920
Speaker 1: I feel like the biggest movement is definitely happening right now.

314
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier that I started I tried to start

315
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,480
Speaker 1: a design concept right before I headed off to business school,

316
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 1: which is around two thousand and five, two thousand six,

317
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 1: Me and another friend who was very passionate about queer

318
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:26,360
Speaker 1: fashion of Vanessa Craig actually co produced, uh what could

319
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 1: have been one of the first butch fashion shows, although

320
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure other things were happening in various cities. Um

321
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,120
Speaker 1: And you know, it's mostly our friends in the community

322
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 1: that came out to support that, and it was a

323
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 1: really great event that I felt very fulfilled with. But

324
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,439
Speaker 1: it was hard to bring that outside of the scope

325
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 1: of the community. And I think right now, because things

326
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 1: are really ursioning, is it is a time to to

327
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:51,919
Speaker 1: do that. And so that's what I'm trying to do

328
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:57,639
Speaker 1: with SHARP is basically bring social impact through commerce and

329
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,160
Speaker 1: expand a little bit further so people are more are

330
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: aware of these other identities. Um and there's so many,

331
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: as you can see, with all the various queer fashion

332
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: brands that are out there, UM, I can probably count

333
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 1: at least you know, thirty, probably fifty of them out

334
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 1: there in the US and Canada. And um, all of

335
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 1: these different brands in a sense represent a different type

336
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:32,400
Speaker 1: of identity in in the queer fashion space, and you know, uh,

337
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,399
Speaker 1: people are more interested there. I think people are wanting

338
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 1: to see more than the standard UM offering that's currently

339
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: in the fashion industry. And UM, you know, I'm just

340
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 1: kind of writing this wave and seeing where it goes

341
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 1: and finally having a chance to to fulfill my passion

342
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: will lee on how big is the queer fashion designing

343
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: community and what is funding like, I mean, is it

344
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 1: the same for more quote unquote mainstream fashion. Yeah. So

345
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: I will start out by saying that UM, finding capital

346
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 1: UM for fashion brands is particularly hard in general if

347
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: you're just looking across the various UH industries for startups. UM.

348
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: That said, being a queer fashion brand adds another layer

349
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:24,160
Speaker 1: of challenges to it. I think that people are more

350
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: technology focused, So the fact that Sharp is moving more

351
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: UM and opening up our line of business to e

352
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: commerce certainly helps. But if you're just a brick and

353
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: mortar fashion brand, it's very very difficult. I mentioned before

354
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 1: that we raised we surpassed our goal for Kickstarter, and

355
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 1: that's because we have enormous support from the community. And

356
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: that was really exciting for me to see. Um, we

357
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: had some support and we raised over a hundred k

358
00:22:55,240 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 1: from friends of family, and now we're expanding to you know,

359
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 1: in a sense cold pitching to the average person, and

360
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: that is definitely experienced because, um, I have to sit

361
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 1: there and explain exactly how we were inspired and what

362
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: the background of our story is, and then I have

363
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: to kind of bridge the gap and say why are

364
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: how are we going to become successful as you know

365
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 1: any x y Z fashion brand out there? Um. So

366
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: that's definitely the challenges that I'm facing right now. But

367
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: I think, um, you know, with our expansion, which you're

368
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: going to see on e commerce, uh, that I think

369
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: we have a real shot at it. So I'm excited

370
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: to see where that goes. Is the e commerce queer

371
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: fashion industry and those sales? Are they driven by social media?

372
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: Do you think kids who are I mean, I say kids,

373
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: but it's really multiple generations? Um is it? You know

374
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: kids who are finally maybe coming out and they are

375
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 1: looking to blogs and webs it's like yours and saying,

376
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I don't have it in my x

377
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 1: y Z small town, but I can at least get

378
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: it online. Are you hearing from people like that? Yeah?

379
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: So I think you said keyword, which is kids. We

380
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 1: definitely have a lot of kids following all of us, um, myself,

381
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: Sonny and Asia, and that's great because then we get

382
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: to to let them know as they're growing and maturing

383
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 1: as adults that hey, there's a space for you in

384
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: the future. Um. Again though their kids, so they can't

385
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: really afford you know, um, items that are several hundred dollars,

386
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: which you know, some of our suits do cost that

387
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: much money. UM. But the hope is to stick around

388
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: until that group can actually partake in and and be

389
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: purchasers of this these items. UM. But a lot of

390
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: I think more effective UM marketing goes into digital advertising

391
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: right now um, and you will see the older crowds

392
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: and Facebook. So we have a campaign that's gonna be

393
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,719
Speaker 1: coming on Facebook soon. UM. And just a lot of

394
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: connections or word of mouth, especially for somebody that's being

395
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: referred to a Taylor so to speak. They want to

396
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 1: know that that somebody else that they know, uh really

397
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: well has a nice personal connection with their Taylor and

398
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: it's referral based that way. So Sonny and Asia have

399
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: you guys heard from members of the younger generation about

400
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: fashion and and sexual identity and sexual orientation. Yes, Um,

401
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: I hear from kids all the time. Um. A lot

402
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: of the stories are heartbreaking, but some are more uplifting. UM.

403
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: A lot of kids who are struggling with their identity

404
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: and feel like they need to fit into a box. Um.

405
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: They say like, I think, I think I'm attracted to girls,

406
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 1: but I don't know, like you know, they get all

407
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 1: confused and it's really cute. Um. Um. And lots of

408
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: kids right in with issue us with their school or

409
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: their parents in terms of like not letting them dress

410
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: the way they want to. So UM, I've given a

411
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: lot of what I've tried to give a lot of

412
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: advice to those people and um. But yeah, just a

413
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of kids are also able to

414
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 1: express themselves more now and they have all these new

415
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: terms for how they identify and that's really cool to see. Yeah,

416
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: it's it's a little bit bizarre to have started for

417
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: a FEM when I was in my twenties and now

418
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: in my thirties, UM and seeing that shift because I

419
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: don't know necessarily that my audience's age has reflected my

420
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: own over. I mean, only on the Internet can you

421
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: be called like two traditional and old school and high

422
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: concept in the same sense. Um So, what I get

423
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: mostly a fit for a FM because it's um so specific,

424
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: is women who come to me and they say, when

425
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: I came out and I realized I was when I

426
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: realized that I was queer. I thought that that automatically

427
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: meant I had to cut my hair, I had to

428
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: put on men's clothes, I had to be more androgyness

429
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 1: or butchet up. And it never really felt like me.

430
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: I just felt like this was the only way to

431
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: be seen. Um as as gay or lesbian are queer,

432
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: and ultimately they stumble upon fit for them and they

433
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: think to themselves, whoa like I can do this? This

434
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: this person is clearly doing this, and then you know,

435
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: finding things that I connect to or or other people

436
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: it's saying, it's totally a thing, and suddenly it becomes

437
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: an option for women who, do you know, want to

438
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: reclaim their feminity and be out there and the world

439
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: is of them. Leon, Did you have anything else to

440
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: add to that, um No, non particular. Well you guys, Asia,

441
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: you directly touched on this earlier, but you guys have

442
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: also touched on the idea of fashion as a part

443
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: of activism and of making your idea entity clearer to

444
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: yourself clear to other people. So do you feel that

445
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: fashion is a branch of activism and and how how

446
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: is it a branch of activism? Well, I mean, I

447
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: think we're seeing with North Carolina that the battle is

448
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: not over. Um. There are still really really hard times

449
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: being fought across this country for a lot of folks

450
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: who are just fighting for the right to exist. And

451
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: human beings are very visual, and so when being who

452
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: you are visually and and being identified puts you at

453
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: risk or means that your rights can be trampled on

454
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: or you can be discriminated against, and there's no repercussion

455
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: for that. That that's definitely activism to be who you

456
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: are and to be out and sort of not compromised

457
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: on that front. And that's really powerful and scary for

458
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Um. And the more you can

459
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: just support them and help give them courage and help

460
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: them to be authentic and true to themselves, that's a

461
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: really privileged place to be in for me personally. Um.

462
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: Just like Asia was saying, it's really hard to just

463
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: move about the world. Um, I guess this is a podcast,

464
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: so you can't see what I look like. But I

465
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: identify as non binary and trans, and you know, sometimes

466
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: I pass as males. Sometimes I don't, especially probably over

467
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: this podcast, I sound more like I have a high voice.

468
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: But so I just have to kind of every time

469
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: I get dressed, deal with what people's reactions are going

470
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: to be, and still try to be true to myself.

471
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: Like right now, I have a bun in my hair,

472
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: which makes people read me as more female, But sometimes

473
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: if I put on a bow tie, I can pass.

474
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: So you never really know what's going to happen, and

475
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: it's always kind of an adventure going into the bathroom.

476
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think for in terms of just the

477
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: community at large, even people who aren't non binary, I

478
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: think it's really important to recognize that we that the

479
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: fashion industry puts UM standards on all of us, and

480
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: even if you identify UM along the binary UM. Just

481
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: like Asia was saying, if you were dressing it, like,

482
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: if you're a woman dressing in a body positive way,

483
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: like your plus size and you're showing off your middrift,

484
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: like that is activism in itself because you're saying that

485
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: you are proud of who you are instead of trying

486
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: to hide it. Yeah. I think that visual activism is

487
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: a big part of of what Sharp does and there's

488
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: still a law work to be done. I mentioned during

489
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: the south By south West panel that we had suited

490
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: on the red carpet Phyllis Naggi, who was the screenwriter

491
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: of Carol as she was up for a nomination. She

492
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: was very visible and you know, yeah, she looked great

493
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: on the red carpet. Uh. She took a chance by

494
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: doing that, and she was very brave. She's definitely a

495
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: pioneer in in queer fashion because of that. Um. We

496
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: also flew to Monroe, Louisiana to deliver a tuxedo for

497
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: a high school student who was initially banned from um

498
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 1: uh her ability to wear a tuxedo to her own prom.

499
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: When that band was lifted. Then we were there to

500
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: provide her a suit and she got to wear it

501
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: to a prom and have fun with her friends. UM.

502
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 1: We're still, you know, always looking to see, you know,

503
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: how we can provide back to the community and um,

504
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: you know advance kind of uh this these new styles

505
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: and identities into the fashion world. UM. So yeah, I

506
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: think there's still a lot of work to be done.

507
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: Even within the queer community, there's a bunch of sub labels. Um,

508
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: even being a transman or transgender individual, there's still sub

509
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: labels like trans feminine and trans masculine. And people have

510
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: asked me, you know, like which one do you identify with?

511
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: And I'm like, isn't interesting how we're trying to get

512
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: away from labels, but we give up more and more labels.

513
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, the consensus is, once we

514
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: have so many labels that everyone has their own label,

515
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: then maybe we won't need them anymore and a person

516
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: will just be a person because you can, ideally, I mean,

517
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: you can essentially have um a different label to per

518
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: day to right you think about it, you know, I

519
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: think for us to be able to label ourselves or

520
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: not label ourselves as we wish, Yeah, it's a choice. Yeah,

521
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: do you think how long do you think it's going

522
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: to take or do you think it's going to happen?

523
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: But how long do you think it's going to take

524
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: for more mainstream media outlets to catch up with that

525
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: idea of not everybody is on this binary guys, not

526
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: everybody uses the same one or two labels. Do you

527
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: see that happening right now or do you ever see

528
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: it happening at all? I feel like it's starting to

529
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: trickle in a little bit. But and I think especially

530
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: with like younger characters in the media who are trying

531
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: to figure themselves out. And I definitely know with younger

532
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: people being the mom of a teenager, like, they just

533
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: don't care. That's that's my take. They just seriously don't care,

534
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: and they're not really interested in categorizing, which is fascinating

535
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: because I feel like human beings, like your brain, just

536
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: before you can even consciously think about it, wants to categorize.

537
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: It wants to organize things and to meet little boxes.

538
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: Um for whatever reason. I'm sure people who studied that

539
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: sort of thing of the name for it. But um, yeah,

540
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: it's really interesting to see how that is gonna kind

541
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: of become more and more prevalent in media representation. We're

542
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: already seeing some mainstream designers Alexander Wayne Gucci showing androgynous

543
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: designs on the runway. Um and um, you know, the

544
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: the kind of the slim fit style that we're seeing

545
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: a lot in the mainstream is is very androgynous. Um uh,

546
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: you know, it kind of takes on more of a

547
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: diamond shape, and that is especially for hiding curves or

548
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: or body parts that are more defining as masculine versus feminine. Um.

549
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: So we are seeing that and it is, in my opinion,

550
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: different from the nineties campaign that you saw a lot

551
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: with Calvin Klein and that sort of androgyny. This is

552
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: more of, uh, this is something that's rather than oh,

553
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pick that label because they're going through an

554
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: androgyny trend, this is more of a we're gonna include

555
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: this going forward kind of a fashion movement. So I

556
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: do feel that, you know, mainStreet is catching onto quart

557
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: fashion as well. What of sonny did you have something

558
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: abb Oh? Sure? Um yeah. Well, as I mentioned in

559
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: the panel to um, I do I I appreciate that

560
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: the industry is doing a lot of unisex uh androgynous lines,

561
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: but at the same time, it's very limited to white,

562
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: essentially female assigned birth skinny people. So I'm really hoping

563
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 1: that we can expand that to show that an androgyny

564
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: can be for anyone of all body types. And um,

565
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 1: I'm just personally, I'm really hoping someday that that stores

566
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: won't feel such a need to separate things into women's

567
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 1: and men's sections because we're all shapes so differently that

568
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: it's really I mean, uh, like yes, men maybe taller

569
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: in general or or wider, but it's just there's so

570
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: there's so much diversity in body type among all of

571
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: us that I really don't think we need to separate

572
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,280
Speaker 1: it nearly as much as people think. And I field

573
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 1: the most free if I can just shop um when

574
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: all the clothes are just together, because then I'm like

575
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 1: like those like those teenagers, I'm just not caring about

576
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: like bolts that I'm just having fun. Yeah, it is

577
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: interesting to watch. Kristen and I did an episode on

578
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: essentially feminism in fashion, but from the perspective of feminism

579
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 1: being used as a trend and the argument of well,

580
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: is this a negative because feminism is being used or

581
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: is it a positive because at least feminism is getting

582
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: a platform and it's part of a larger discussion. Do

583
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: you feel like something similar is happening with more androgynous

584
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: looks or with um fashion that's sort of for everyone.

585
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: Do you feel like androgyny is a trend or do

586
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: you feel like more mainstream fashion is really starting to

587
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: adopt more of a fashionist for everyone ethos and I

588
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: think people are taking these terms like androgyny, tomboy, um,

589
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: a gender, and a lot of brands are just kind

590
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: of throwing it around and it's really just code for like,

591
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: here are some clothes that look really good on skinny

592
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: people and don't particularly you know, have a gender to them.

593
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: Often they're more masculine leaning actually, So yeah, I do

594
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,760
Speaker 1: think it's it's a trend that people are kind of using,

595
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 1: and um, I wish people were a little more careful

596
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: with their words because, um, there are some people who

597
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: really do identify as a gender or androgynous um and

598
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 1: these people, most of them aren't represented by this group. Yeah.

599
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: I almost feel like if to be a little bit

600
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: of a music nerd, if you go back into like

601
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: punk and new wave and those times and like the

602
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: late sixties through the mid eighties, I mean you had

603
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: I feel like you had almost true like a gender

604
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: stuff where um like adam Ant would wear you know,

605
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: rouffaly shirts and kind of very tight hip hoggy sort

606
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: of pants and a lot of a lot of detail. Um,

607
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: and then you had just sort of the straight up

608
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,959
Speaker 1: and down. And again this goes to what you're talking about. Sunny, look,

609
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: that's just like a plain white shirt and you kind

610
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: of st Laurn has actually been doing a lot of

611
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 1: stuff that looks like that, UM, but at least that

612
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: gives more of a balance to where you see masculine

613
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: people wearing sort of more feminine or fussy or frilly

614
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 1: clothing rather than just everybody kind of meeting in this

615
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: this so called androgynous to find middle middle of the road,

616
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: which isn't really because it doesn't incorporate anything on the

617
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: feminine side of the spectrum. Right. You know, UM, A

618
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: gender is not just about a bunch of butches and suits.

619
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: It's UM. It's playing with different types of not just tailoring,

620
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: but also draping UM and really kind of not using

621
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: gender basically as a way of styling. It's UM using

622
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: clothing in a way that UM doesn't have anything to

623
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: do with that. If you look at the origins of tailoring,

624
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: they did initially start tailoring, uh for people who were

625
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: male or or for men, and this is back in

626
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: the day and during the Renaissance era. Everyone was wearing

627
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: kind of um draping kind of clothing and then Tayloring

628
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: came into play. This is around the rise of Christianity,

629
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: and um you know, it was only for men at

630
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: that point. I think we're at a point in fashion

631
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: where it doesn't really matter. You can um play with

632
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 1: different shapes and um uh. You know. That's another reason

633
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: why I chose suits, is because I'd like to with

634
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: suits that typically are very masculine type of symbol and

635
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: clothing and and just be able to suit all types

636
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: of people women, um uh, those who are female identified,

637
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: draping it off the shoulders, wearing them with shorts, you know,

638
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 1: I mean, just playing around with it, and we're finding

639
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: that a lot of people are actually liking these styles.

640
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: Um So yeah, sorry that wasn't in a very direct answer,

641
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: but it's I could talk about this, and I didn't

642
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: want to go into like a ten minutes feel, you know,

643
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: but hopefully that gives kind of an idea of of

644
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: you know, uh a gender and and how that pertains

645
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: to fashion. I feel like it's not only gender in

646
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: terms like androgeny to get thrown around for and and

647
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: feminism that get thrown around for sort of trendy fashion reasons,

648
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: but also issues of race and ethnicity, I'm interested in

649
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: your take on and where the place is for women

650
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: of color in or you know, feminine identifying people in

651
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: this discussion about queer fashion, because, like you were saying,

652
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: Sonny for instance, so much of that quote unquote androgyn

653
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: his fashion does tend to focus on skinny white people.

654
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: So what's your what's your take on the space for

655
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: feminine or female identifying people of color. One thing that

656
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: we talked about and kept going back to it ourselves

657
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: by Self West panel was give people who aren't represented

658
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: more seats at the table. Everybody agreed on that. Everybody

659
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: was on the same page about if you want to

660
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: if you're a mainstream fashion brand and you want to

661
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: have a play at androgyny or you want to incorporate

662
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: more women of color on your runways or just people

663
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: of color on your runways, even bring more of those

664
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 1: people to the table. You can't, you know, work on

665
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: those con steps and have it to be divorced from

666
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: from those folks having representation and stay and what that

667
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: should look like, what that should feel like, how that

668
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: should be marketed. Um So, I think that's just one

669
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: of the key pieces. UM. I just worked on a

670
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: story um at Auto Straddle that featured Cora Harrington, who

671
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: runs the lingerie addict um her addict rather and um,

672
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: it's a it's a great her blog is amazing. It's

673
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: just all it's a it's a lingerie drain. Basically, you

674
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 1: just look at this wonderful, beautiful, incredible lingerie. And so

675
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: she worked with some other people on this idea of like,

676
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: let's let's do our own photo shoot representing these sprain

677
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: summer trends um and work with little indie brands um

678
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: to just sort of put out into the world like

679
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: what this should look like, what lingerie marketing campaigns should

680
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: look like if they wanted to be representative of a

681
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: diverse group of people. And they had an older woman,

682
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,439
Speaker 1: they had Cora, who's a black woman, um, and she's

683
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 1: queer and she's gorgeous, but and she also rock natural

684
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 1: hair um. And then there was a non binary queer

685
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: woman as well. UM. And there was one other one

686
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: other galic it's escaping me right now um. And so

687
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: they came together and they did this incredible, really beautiful

688
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: photo shoot. UM. But even then, because Cora is slender

689
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: and has insane bone structure. UM. You know, some people

690
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: are like how well, how is this different? How is

691
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: she different from the norm? And it's because she's a

692
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,240
Speaker 1: queer woman, and she's a queer woman of color, and

693
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: she's darker than most black women that are featured in

694
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 1: lingerie campaigns, and she's a little bit more her physique

695
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: is a little bit more muscular than is usually considered

696
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: acceptable and lingerie campaigns. I mean, I can go on

697
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: and on and on about what makes her unique and special. UM,

698
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: But it's interesting to have that conversation, and it's wonderful

699
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: to see people sort of taking it into their own

700
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: hands and putting what they want to see out into

701
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, that's one of my goals with Quaire

702
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: is to just provide this platform for everyone to express themselves.

703
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: And I try to keep keep myself out of the

704
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: equation as much as possible. So if it's UM, if

705
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 1: it's a column written by a queer woman of color, UM,

706
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: just making sure that it's really all hers and then

707
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: I'm just you know, pressing publish. UM. So that's that's

708
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: just really important to our values at Queer, that we

709
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: give everyone a voice and that it's not dominated by

710
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:53,399
Speaker 1: UM any one voice. You know, UM as sharp as

711
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: a business. UM, we do have to UM. It's it's

712
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: a very tricky balance, I think, you know, UM, as

713
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,959
Speaker 1: we've you know, bottom line is going to determine whether

714
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: we survive or whether I can continue to do this

715
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 1: or not. UM. So you know in our next campaign, UM,

716
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: you will see um uh very slender cis I guess

717
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 1: so to speak, Caucasian guy wearing um our suits. And

718
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: that is because we are wanting to be all inclusive

719
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: to you know, the average guy who's sitting behind the computer,

720
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: who um really wants to buy something that's more fashion

721
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: forward and um also you know maybe hipster and as

722
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: cool with you know that we're inspired by the l

723
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: g B t q UH community. UM So in the

724
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: product shots you will see that. But in all my

725
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: editorials on the runway, I'm always including all um ethnicities,

726
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: all body types, all uh genders uh to you know,

727
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: as kind of an ode to who we are and

728
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: where we came from and who we're going to continue

729
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 1: to be. UM. But you know, again with marketing and

730
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: product marketing, we have to kind of take care of

731
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: our bottom line, so to speak. So it's gonna be

732
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: a tricky balance. But I hope I hope the community understands,

733
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: because um, it's it's better for a brand like Sharp

734
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: to be around someday then for us, you know, not

735
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 1: to exist at all, and then there's no work that

736
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: I can really do at that point. Yeah, in terms

737
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: of the community understanding, UM, I'm always I'm in a

738
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: unique position to get to talk to people like you Leon,

739
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: who um are running your business and have all these

740
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: things you're dealing with, and then the community who's having

741
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: all of this feedback that's often negative, and I'm trying to, like,

742
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: you know, help balance um explaining to the community like no,

743
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: I'm serious that these people have to charge this much

744
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: like they worked all the numbers. This is just what

745
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: they have to charge. You know, We're We're sorry it's

746
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: too much for you, you know that kind of thing.

747
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: So UM. So yeah, I hope fully we can bridge

748
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 1: and understanding alongst each other. Yeah. It is a delicate balance. Um.

749
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: I I know, I talked to Nick Casey a lot

750
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: about his business with his footwear swear, and it's like, UM, well,

751
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 1: if you want something that's made uh with this sort

752
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: of level of authenticity and quality, then it's going to

753
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: cost this much money. Um. Also just bear in mind

754
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: that we are dealing with the supply chain that is

755
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: also very gendered and binary, and so if we want

756
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: to change things slightly, that costs us money and so

757
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: unfortunately that comes out in our retail pricing. And you know,

758
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 1: we've kind of kind of stick together to support each other. Um.

759
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: You know, uh, it's it's better, you know, to kind

760
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: of pay a little extra um for brands like this

761
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: to be around, and then when we get to a

762
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 1: point where we've changed things all the way vertically, then

763
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 1: the prices can come down right right. I feel like

764
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: it's just something that takes time, and a lot of

765
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: folks who are consumers simply don't understand because they're not

766
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: they're not in your position, or they're not well verse,

767
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: or they don't know a super ton about the background

768
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: of what it takes to do that. You see that

769
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 1: in like making vegan clothing or vegan products or ethically

770
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,760
Speaker 1: sourced thing. It is expensive. There's a reason that fast

771
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 1: fashion is fast fashion, and it's so so so cheap,

772
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: and it's very easy to ignore the fact of why

773
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 1: that is. Um. But it's impossible to ignore as a

774
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: as a business person and as someone who is very

775
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: intentional about buying ethically sourced things, or about supporting a

776
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 1: queer business. Um, I mean, I think those are excellent

777
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: points in terms of balancing the business against the constant

778
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: sort of social outcry for no. But I want, I

779
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: want my fashion, and I want it now. Um. I mean,

780
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: I think it's an excellent point, and I want to

781
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: sort of start to wrap it up. I've kept you

782
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: good people too long, but I want to get from

783
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: each of you, uh, some advice if you have it,

784
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: for young listeners out there, um, whether they're queer or not,

785
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: maybe just kids who feel like they're different and outside

786
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 1: of the mainstream, What is your advice for them as

787
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: really fabulous fashion people, two kids who maybe feel just

788
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: a little different, sunny, Let's start with you. Yeah, just

789
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: um it's cheesy, but just be yourself, I mean you

790
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: you really everyone experiments to figure out what feels right.

791
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,879
Speaker 1: So just try things on, you know. I I've had

792
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: a lot of embarrassing fashion moments in my day and

793
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: it was all part of the process of, um, finding

794
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 1: my style, and I'm still discovering it. So just try

795
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: to be free, uh, and just surround yourself by friends

796
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 1: who support you in whatever stage you're in, and who

797
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: don't make you feel like you have to conform to anything.

798
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: I agree. Uh, please don't go to some of my

799
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: older posts, but you could if you wanted to to

800
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: see how my style has evolved over the years. It's

801
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: just the nature of getting dressed as a human being.

802
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: Things cycle in and out and and it's exciting. It's

803
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 1: exciting to take part of those things. It's exciting to

804
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: go against the grain, and how you feel is more

805
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: important than anything else. UM. I would say one of

806
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: the more interesting things that I discovered moving from the

807
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: Bay Area to Boston four years ago was how reticent

808
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 1: people are to buy second hand or thrifted or clothing

809
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 1: that that's not brand brand new. And I feel like

810
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: for a lot of young people who maybe don't have

811
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: access to a lot of money and can't spend what

812
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: they would ideally like to to achieve the style that

813
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 1: they want to represent or experiment or play with. UM,

814
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: don't be scared of that if there's nothing weird about it.

815
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: I can't believe I had to say that to so

816
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: many clients as a personal stylist, but sometimes it's one

817
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: of the only ways to get the look that you

818
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: want from older clothing or are just there's no way

819
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,399
Speaker 1: who can buy retail off the shelf, but you can

820
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: absolutely get that if you go and hunt for it,

821
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 1: um in the bins or at someplace like Buffalo Exchange

822
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: or crossroads where that stuff is a lot more accessible

823
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 1: than it is brand new. So just have fun and

824
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: don't be script out by any of that stuff. And yeah, nice,

825
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 1: thank you so much. UM, could you go down the

826
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 1: line again and tell our listeners where they can find

827
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: you online and where they can find out more about

828
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: your work, Sunny, let's start with you. Yeah, so my

829
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: website is Queer Fashion dot com. It's spelled q w

830
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: e a R fashion dot com and that's where you

831
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,720
Speaker 1: can see everything we've done. You can find my style

832
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 1: blog Fit for a f M at Fit for a

833
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: FM dot com, Um, just like it sounds, and auto

834
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,919
Speaker 1: Strato dot com is where you can find a lot

835
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 1: of my style and beauty coverage. Um, and that is

836
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: also just how it sounds. And if you want to

837
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: follow me on Instagram or Twitter, they're my is dear

838
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 1: jones e j O n E s E Y. I

839
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 1: know Instagram is super popular, so cool and uh, for

840
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: sure if We've got spring summer collection that's launching in

841
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,879
Speaker 1: the next month or two and you can find that

842
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: at www dot Sharp s H A r P E

843
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: Suiting s U I T I n g um dot

844
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: com or find us on Twitter, Instagram, uh, Facebook, and

845
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 1: the Twitter and Instagram is at Sharp Suiting. Great. Thank

846
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: you guys so much. It was such a pleasure talking

847
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: to you. I could honestly talk to you, like for

848
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: three more hours. But thank you for having us. Yeah,

849
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having us. And I just

850
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: want to say Leon, Sonny and Asia so much for

851
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 1: joining us. I really think that our listeners will identify

852
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 1: with a lot of what they said, and I was

853
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 1: so pleased to really be able to represent these fashion

854
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 1: viewpoints on our show. And I'm also looking forward to

855
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: hearing from listeners who are in the style and design fields, um,

856
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: because I'm sure that you have even more insights to

857
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 1: talk about this, and also listeners within the l g

858
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: B t Q community. I mean, do these issues resonate

859
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: with you? Have there been challenges finding the fashion that

860
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: really fits who you are both inside and out? Um? So, Mom,

861
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: Stuff at how stuff works dot com is where you

862
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 1: can send all of your emails. Of course, you can

863
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: always tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or message us

864
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: on Facebook, and we've got a couple of messages to

865
00:53:54,160 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 1: share with you right now. Well, I have a letter

866
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: here from Olivia and Kristen. She has some questions in

867
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: here too for us to address. Okay, so Olivia says, first,

868
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: I just wanna say thank you for doing what you do.

869
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: I love listening to your thoughtful conversations on the podcast

870
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: while I'm doing everything from working to cleaning, and it

871
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 1: totally brightens my day. I was listening to your most

872
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 1: recent episode about the lesbian wage bump, and the idea

873
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: that many lesbians never count on being attached to a

874
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 1: male breadwinner really got me thinking, I, a straight white

875
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 1: CIS lady, have more or less always counted on being

876
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: in a partnership with a male breadwinner. I knew from

877
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,240
Speaker 1: a very early age that I wanted to get married someday,

878
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: and I figured my marriage would work the way my

879
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: parents does. But my mom lends a significant hand since

880
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: she's back to work after taking more time off when

881
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 1: my sister and I were little, I've never been encouraged

882
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 1: to make being a primary breadwinner a priority. This is

883
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 1: presumably in part because I'm female, but also because I

884
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,800
Speaker 1: come from a family of creatives who always put following

885
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: your passions before making money. My decisions about my career

886
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 1: have been made accordingly. As a working artist, I'm much

887
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 1: more concerned with the career trajectory that will fuel my

888
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 1: passions than with what will be a stable source of

889
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: income for a future family. This feels like a betrayal

890
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: of both feminism and my boyfriend. I dislike the fact

891
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 1: that I'm mentally bank on this safety net when thinking

892
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: about my future, and it feels terribly unfair that I'm

893
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: primarily concerned with chasing my passions while my boyfriend has

894
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: to balance that with having a career stable enough to

895
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: support any family we might eventually have, though he assures

896
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: me it's totally fine. All this to say, I was

897
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: wondering if you could do an episode on reconciling one's

898
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: radical feminism with being in typically quote unquote female positions.

899
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: Does this kind of thing grind other women's gears? How

900
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,839
Speaker 1: many of us are in those positions by choice? How

901
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: do you navigate being a feminist while pursuing your dreams

902
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 1: on another person's dime? I mean, I think that that

903
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 1: is all about partnership gender as saw you know, I

904
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:05,479
Speaker 1: mean there are times in long term relationships when one

905
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: person kind of has to carry more of the weight

906
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 1: and it evens out most likely at some point. And

907
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: I don't think that that it necessarily means that you're

908
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: being a bad feminist. Yeah, And and the same sentiment

909
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: goes for what job you choose. I mean, if you

910
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: wanted to be a prima ballerina, I'm thinking of like

911
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:30,799
Speaker 1: something super you know, traditionally feminine. That doesn't matter if

912
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 1: that is your passion. And it would be one thing

913
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: if you were trying to take advantage and and get

914
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 1: a leg up over your partner. But it sounds like

915
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 1: you guys are in really open, clear honest communication with

916
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: one another that you really want to pursue your passion

917
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: and your boyfriend, who sounds like will become your husband

918
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: one day or you know, you guys are just in

919
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 1: it for the long haul. Um, it sounds like he's

920
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: on board with the two and so No, like Christen said,

921
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 1: I don't think that makes you a bad feminist. And

922
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 1: I don't think that if you're in a traditionally uh

923
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 1: female coded or male coded line of work, or female

924
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: dominated or male dominated line of work. I don't think

925
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: either one speaks to what kind of feminist you are.

926
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: I don't think that your passion or your skills speaks

927
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 1: to feminism. I think you can be a feminist and

928
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: be in a super traditional feminine role, female role, or

929
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: you could be a construction worker. You know what I mean, right?

930
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 1: I mean because I think we also conflate feminist and

931
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 1: feminine and consider that you know things that are feminine

932
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: or somehow the antithesis of feminism, and that's not the

933
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: point at all. So you know your own motivations and

934
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 1: it sounds like they're pure, and let your partner support you,

935
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: because that's what partnership is all about. So thanks for

936
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: your question. Um. I've got another letter here Natasha about

937
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 1: our lesbian wage Gap episode, and Natasha writes, I listened

938
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: to the Lesbian Wage Gap episode today while I was

939
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: out in the yard doing work, and I'm just really

940
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 1: glad you discussed it. As a queer woman who grew

941
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: up in a rural area and is continuing to work

942
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: in agriculture, and we'll live in a rural area all

943
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: my life. I really appreciated you talking about the members

944
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: of the queer community who live in rural areas and

945
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 1: the jobs we do. There's a big myth there's no

946
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: queer people in rural areas and we all want to

947
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 1: flee to the cities. So even your discussion of poverty

948
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: and the difficulty living and working in rural areas is

949
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: super appreciated by me, because so often we don't exist

950
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 1: in anything. I've really been enjoying listening to your podcasts

951
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: as I'm walking fields all day, So thank you and

952
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: keep up the good work. Well. Thank you, Natasha, and

953
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 1: for all of our listeners. If you want to send

954
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: us a let our moms stuff at how stuff works

955
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 1: dot com is where you can do that, and for

956
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 1: all of our social media as well as all of

957
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 1: our blogs, videos and podcasts with our sources so you

958
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: can learn more about queer fashion and our fabulous panelists today,

959
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: head over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com

960
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics. Visit

961
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com.