WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways BONUS: Pimlico Poisoning Mystery 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.120 This special episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought you 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:07.320 by your wife who's trying to kill you. Instead, it's 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.559 brought you by T and T s new limited series 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:13.440 The Alienist. When a series of gruesome murders grips New 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:19.400 York in eight, Dr Laslow Chrysler and his team must investigate, analyze, 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:43.880 and capture the killer. Inspired by The Alienist, this week, 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.559 we're going to delve into the death of Thomas Edwin Bartlett, 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.440 who was discovered dead at four o'clock in the morning 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:55.640 on January one, eight six of apparent chloroform poisoning. The 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.600 general consensus was that his wife Adelaide Blanche Bartlett was 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:02.280 the one who administered the poison, but to be honest, 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.920 we don't know for sure who did it, so that 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.080 is our mystery. And just a quick little ears warning, 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:11.840 there is going to be some talk about sex in 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:13.800 this episode, so if you don't want the little ones, 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:16.480 here are little ears here and that save it for later. 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.000 Do you want to introduce ourselves? We probably should because 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.080 that would be great since I just gave away the story. 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:25.880 Who were the players? Well, I am Steve, I'm Joe, 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:31.560 and this is Thick Sideways. The podcast. Good job. It's 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:35.200 like we do that all the time, like that enthusiastic damn. 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:38.959 So let'sen I've read into the story, give a little 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.199 background on the players that we've got. So there's really 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:45.039 there's three main players in this story. First off, there 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:49.600 is Edwin and Edwin the husband. He was a successful grocer. 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.240 I'm looking actually on several stores, right, like a chain 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:54.120 or something. Right, Well, he was a grosser. I guess. 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.360 I guess I meant that isn't the business owner, not 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.280 the guy who was behind the counter. He has a 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:06.760 successful bag checker, checker, either of the two. But their 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.239 business was in London. He was twenty nine years old 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:13.000 when he married Adelaide in eighteen seventy five. At the 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.880 time of their marriage, she was just nineteen years old 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:18.200 and she had had a bit of a tragic past. 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:20.400 Both of her parents had died by the time she 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.720 was eleven. She was taken in by a family and 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:28.720 they raised and educated her. And yeah, it was and 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.640 that plays into part of the marriage terms or the 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:36.320 dowry terms, because it was an arranged marriage. Not surprisingly, 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.280 they weren't in love, which wasn't really a thing at 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:44.079 the time. Marrying for love well for some people thought 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:46.440 all of them. But one of those stipulations of her 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:50.680 dowry was that Edwin had to pay to complete her 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:55.560 education and he almost immediately sent her away to school 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.560 for about two years. So happy romantic newlyweds go to 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.040 school an el see you later. She actually came home 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.160 on holidays for business. Yeah, it wasn't if she was 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:08.000 gone completely, but they were. When they were together again, 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.519 they were reported to, you know, have a happy relationship, 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:15.639 though they didn't have much of a sexual relationship. Platonic. Yeah, 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:17.760 platonics is the way you see it described a lot. 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.480 Uh there there though there is some disagreement on that. Yeah, 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:23.480 there is, there is, and that's something that we're going 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:25.920 to talk about in a bit. But one of the 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:27.959 signs that points to the fact that it was not 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:33.520 entirely platonic is the fact that Adelaide got pregnant and 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:38.160 had a child in one which would have been six 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:42.200 years after their marriage. Unfortunately, the child was still born, 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.640 and she vowed never to get pregnant again. Apparently it 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.640 wasn't an easy pregnancy for her. Yeah, the child was 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.440 still born. I mean that's a pretty good sign. But 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.320 I mean, you know, there's nothing to say that their 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:59.000 relationship was had an inherent sexual component. There's there is 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.120 evidence obviously she pregnant. I would say that's more evidence 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.560 that Edwin was like, you know what, I need an 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.640 air to give all this money to or something like that, 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:12.040 you know, more than for practical reasons rather than reasons 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.240 of pleasure. Yeah, but also maybe pleasure who I don't know. 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.360 I mean that some people said they only had sex 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:19.719 once in their entire relationship, which she got pregnant. But 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.360 then then I think it was their chambermates said her. 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.200 She thought that she believed that actually they only had 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:30.920 unprotected sex once once she got pregnant. Correct, Yeah, correct. 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.160 I think their relationship was not quite as abnormal as 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:35.159 some people like to know. No, And and that's that's 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:36.880 one of the things that, as with all these older stories, 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.360 you gotta be careful of the accountings and the reporting. 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:42.920 But let's continue on. So the couple lived in several 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:47.679 different houses in London, but in October of eighty five 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.840 they moved to the Pimlico area, which is in central London. 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.760 They had been living in another part of the city. Uh, 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.320 and what motivated him to move I don't really know, 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:58.680 and that's not really important to the story, but you know, 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.120 it's close to their Their play was close to the Thames, 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:03.599 actually a stone so away, so maybe they liked it 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:07.240 for the dead bodies. I don't know that was it, 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.080 but I did. What is important to note here is 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:16.839 that before the move, actually since January, they had been 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:22.080 going to the Wesleyan Chapel in Merton Abbey, which was 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:26.039 about eight miles or thirteen kilometers away from their new home, 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.440 the one that they just moved into. And that's important 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.760 because when they started attending that church, they met the 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:37.280 Reverend George Dyson, and he and the couple became quick friends, 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.599 and they would spend a lot of time together. And 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:44.159 some accounts would say that he would minister them individually, 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.960 while others would say that he was hired to tutor 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:52.719 adelaide um. And by tutored, I mean, well, I don't 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:54.520 actually know what it means, because there's a lot of 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.640 conflicting accounts. I mean, it sounds like she was interested 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.680 in in education and you know, be being educated and 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.240 learning stuff. I mean grant, I mean, you know, if 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:07.880 that was part of her dowry, was that she was 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.880 to continue her education. The only reason she could get 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:15.640 married was if she were guaranteed that continue education. If 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:21.200 she was into that, I mean would be yeah. I mean, 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.520 we don't know. We don't know what was going on 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.400 here in terms of what was taught or what actions 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:32.240 were taken. Well, according to the testimony of the Reverend himself, 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.880 he said that he said too, I believe to Adelaide 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:40.599 at some point that he felt that Edwin was actually 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.480 sort of trying to push them together, meaning George Dyson 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.360 and Adelaide. He felt that he was trying kind of 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.040 trying to push them and and yeah, and you see that, 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.680 you see that in a lot of places, because I mean, 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.440 as we talked about the resources of the sources on 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.560 this say that Edmond himself apparently wasn't all that interested 0:06:57.600 --> 0:06:59.839 in sex, but he did he had this belief in 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:03.920 the power of animal magnetism, which is a force sometimes 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.360 referred to as mesmerism. It's kind of a life force 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.280 that can be held by It's held by all animals 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.400 and can be transferred to others with healing properties. This 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:18.200 is when that kind of stuff was going on, it 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:23.000 was popular, and again, we don't know if that's true. 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.080 Because there's only a couple of players who say that 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:27.800 it's it was not as if it was a widely 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:32.160 known belief that he did this. So it's hard to say. 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.720 But what we do know about the pair is, you know, 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.280 in terms of who liked. What we do know that 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:42.000 apparently she had more of an appetite for intercourse than 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:48.320 he did because supposedly, according to Edwin's father, she took 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:52.320 up almost immediately with Edwin's brother after their marriage and 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.600 an affair with him, although Edwin's father really didn't like 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:59.280 and so he was throwing mud. All. Yeah, there was 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:03.000 some straw disagreement over that particular issue. But there's there's 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:08.600 also uh information that says that she was having intercourse 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:13.200 with the George Dyson. And the reason that that it 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:18.800 said that way is that Adelaide and Dyson were, according 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:23.240 to the maid, found multiple times on the floor in 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:29.080 positions quote unquote unusual for pupil and teacher. That that 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:31.920 was a great way to say that he was actually 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:36.760 also supposed to tutor her in judo. They were just 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:41.000 paper clip Yeah, um, but you know, it's I mean, 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:45.600 it's not entirely clear if Edwin was how much of 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.880 this he was aware of or on board with um. 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.280 And as we said, you know, his father didn't like her, 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.439 and so he said a lot of bad things and 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:58.600 she made some strange statements about her husband. So his 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:02.360 his letters to the reverend seemed to indicate that he 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.719 was okay with it. No on board, but it's I'm 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:09.800 not positive. Towards the end of his life, the past, 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.120 at least the last couple of years of his life, 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.600 his health was really bad. Yeah, it was waning. Yet 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.520 he expected to be to die and to leave his 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:21.200 wife a widow. And you know, he apparently thought that 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.680 Dyson would have been at the ideal husband for the future, 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.880 and that's what he seems to think. Yeah, what's was 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:30.800 noble of him. Yeah, so we're almost at this point, 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.880 we're almost up to talking about Edwin's death. But there's 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.200 just a little more that we need to share about him. 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.520 Joe had you were just talking about his health and yeah, 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.960 it had been poor for years ahead of time. Um 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:47.200 he had been diagnosed by his regular medical doctor as 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.880 having subacute gastritis, which is an irritation of the lightning 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.640 of your stomach UM and subacute means that it came 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.680 on rather rapidly. He also supposedly had issues with his 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.520 gums and his teeth with left in a lot of 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.320 pain and discomfort, at least for the latter part of 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:07.240 the year of eighty five, and part of the reason 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.839 for that is his choice of dentist, because he picks 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:15.080 a complete and utter nut job dentist. You know. Yeah, 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.400 they didn't have the Internet. You couldn't look like reviews 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.120 on your dentist friend. I wish that he could have, 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.240 because this guy believed that the best way to prepare 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:28.440 Edwin's mouth for receiving dentures was too I kid, you 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:34.800 not saw his teeth off the gums. It's like leaving 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:36.760 the healthy aside it. I was so much rather have 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:41.680 a tooth pulled than have it sawed off. Yeah yeah, yeah, 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:47.320 broke out, Yeah, decided the health of considerations aside. I mean, 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.040 I would you would think that that having rotting stumps 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.240 in your job would not be a healthy thing? Oh god, no, 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.960 exposed nerves. No, this whole thing sounds bad and it's 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:56.959 and think about it. It was a handsaw, not a 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.360 power saw. Okay. The other problem that Edwin had was 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:04.920 apparently it was determined that he was suffering from mercury poisoning. 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:09.360 And when his regular you know, medical doctor asked him, 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.360 you know what's going on. He was taking some pills 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:12.959 and he said, well, why are you taking him? And 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:15.880 he admitted that he didn't know they had been prescribed 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.480 to him, and so he was taking them well, and 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.800 so he was getting mercury poisoning, which is not good. Well, 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.680 also back in the old I mean, murcury was used 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:28.319 in amalagam in dentistry for fillings for a long long time. 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:30.679 But also I mean he actually might have it might 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.920 have been other things. Apparently Edwin strongly believed that he 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.280 had worms. He was totally conness he had worms and 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:40.760 worms or excuse me, and mercury actually in those days 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.920 was considered a good treatment for parasites. So he might 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:49.480 have actually been taking mercury including yeah, by the way, 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.800 I'm not recommending this if you think you have worms. 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.800 But and apparently he didn't. He didn't have much of 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.600 a real doctor exactly. His wife kind of was his nurse, 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:02.200 and he didn't exactly have even his regular doctor once 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.200 in a great while. So that was about it. So 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.120 you know, I'm not surprised, being people took mercury for 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.080 uh syphilius, and you know, like I said, parasites and 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.360 a bunch of other stuff. It was kind of the fix. Well, 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:17.400 the trick is is it will fix everything and then 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.080 you will not be suffering from those things anymore because 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.880 you will be dead, right, I mean, yeah, I don't know. 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.280 I guess there's something to be said for having that 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.400 unquestioning kind of demeanor of well, maybe this is just 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:31.360 you know, I've never been to another dentist. Maybe this 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.040 is how things are done. But you would think, for 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.000 the first one I was gonna say, you would think 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.280 the first time somebody started sawing your teeth, you would 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:44.400 be like, just kidding, this can't be right. Just the 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:46.680 whole idea of like, it seems kind of awkward to 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:48.920 get a saw into somebody's mouth. Also, I'm sure it 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.640 was a little dental saw. Well yeah, I'm sure it was. 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:55.040 Still it just sounds like an uncomfortable knife, yea. And 0:12:55.720 --> 0:13:01.559 not much in the way of So all of this 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.640 is going on, and Edwin is getting sicker and sicker, 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:07.320 and then all of a sudden, in the month of December, 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:12.120 his health seems to rally. Uh and the couplers scene 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.000 around town and they're happy. And he goes to his 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.000 regular doctors apparently, who says, oh, yeah, I know you're 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:22.400 doing much better. Good prognosis. And then on New Year's Eve, 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:26.080 Edwin went to see his quack dentist again for for 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.600 what reasons I don't know, uh, and then came home 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.679 and he and his wife they spent the evening together 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.880 in their house. She then woke up at about four 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.200 o'clock in the morning. They feed fall asleep in a cot, 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.600 and she was sitting near the cot and it fall 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:46.880 asleep next to it room fireplace face and so we 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:49.080 could keep warm. And then when she woke up, she 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:54.080 noticed something wasn't right, and so she said that she 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.800 tried to pour brandy down his throat in an attempt 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.880 to rouse him, and then when that didn't work, she 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.080 called for help and and people came and they figured 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.079 out very quickly which he had passed, which was strange 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:09.280 thing to do because apparently, I mean the southern landlord 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:11.559 who lived upstairs. She wasn't got him first. This is 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.200 a bit four am and uh, and said the maid 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.520 maybe she said the maid up, but whatever it was, 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.960 he came right down and he said, well, he touched 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.280 the body of the body was just cold as hell. 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.120 It was cold. And so I was like, Okay, I've 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.560 got this body here that's laying there, stone cold and 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:30.320 the eyes are wide up in a staring at nothing, 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:32.840 and I'm gonna poor Brandy not a stroke. Now. Yeah, 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:36.880 that doesn't make a lot of it's her defense. I mean, yes, 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:41.680 bodies get really cold, panic she was young, but also 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.400 um no, she actually she was. She was in her 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:51.720 thirties at this point. She scratched that from the record anyway. Um, 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:53.960 one thing I will say is that I have very 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.160 poor circulation as a as a role. My blood pressure 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.480 is really really low, and there are times where my 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:02.920 hands in feet are like ice cubes. So we shouldn't 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.880 just bury you. We should probably check or something. Yeah. Um, 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.360 and you know, my core stays warm, but my limbs 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.240 get really really cold. And I'm convinced that if I 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.040 did pass in the night and my fiance was like 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.720 just went to touch, you know, my hand and just 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.760 felt it cold, he would just think, Wow, she's like 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:27.880 passed out or sleep or something, and he's right, yeah, 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:29.760 he would just be like, wow, she's still asleep. Must 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:33.560 have been really tired. It's so weird. No, I mean yeah, no, 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:35.600 I mean obviously he's smart enough he would check for 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:37.920 a pulse blah blah blah. But I'm just saying, if 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.320 you're kind of in a panic and all, and he 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:44.200 was in bad health already, and you know, I suspect 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.320 his circulation wasn't particularly great if all she did was 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:49.640 kind of touch his hand and then she thought, oh, 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:51.600 I'll give him some brandy that usually warms him up 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.280 and wakes him up, and then that didn't and then 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:57.200 she was like, oh, that's why he's so cold. Okay, Dan, 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.800 So obviously he's found dead. That that I think it 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.480 was about ten or eleven o'clock that morning. Edwin's father 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:08.720 comes over because he was in town at the time, 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:10.680 and as soon as he heard about it, he came 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:14.600 over and he, like we talked about, he was suspicious 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.600 of Adelaide and he didn't like her. And so the 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.280 first thing he said he did was go and smell 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:24.160 his son's mouth, you know, for signs of poisoning, and 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.560 he reportedly smelled something that was sweet, and you know, 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.360 made a big ruck as saying, I want an official 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:35.120 examination done of the body and the doctors when they 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.760 did the examination, there was no obvious cause of death 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.640 until they opened Edwin's stomach, at which point they found 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:46.320 a sixteenth of an ounce of chloroform in it. Now, 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:50.680 presumably there had been more chloroform in his stomach before that, 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.840 but because it evaporates so easily, it was probably escaping 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:58.600 out of his mouth to a degree. Yeah, I mean 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.320 it will. And to be clear, chloroform is not something 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.000 that naturally occurs in your stomach. No, absolutely not no, 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:08.000 absolutely not like mercury will kill you. Correct. And the 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.560 cause of death at this point was pretty obvious, but 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.479 how the chloroform got into him was not. Because the 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:19.040 thing is chloroform will burn skin after it is left 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.600 in contacted with it for a second or two. Oh, 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:27.160 Edwin's mouth and throat didn't show any signs of burning. 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:29.879 His tongue was kind of bleached white, which is an 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.800 after effect and is a known effect, But there was 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.920 no burning. So our mystery is how did it get 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.200 there and and who did it. To finish the story, 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.800 before we get into all the theory section, Adelaide and 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:47.879 George Dyson. They're charged with Edwin's death. Dyson is almost 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:52.000 immediately actually is at the trial, is immediately released from 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:56.600 the charges in exchange for testifying against Adelaide. What he 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.159 tells the court is that he had gotten her or 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.959 ounces of chloroform that she said she was going to 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:08.000 use on Edwin to help him sleep because he had 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.359 been in so much pain. Because if you know anything 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.760 about chloroform, people used to put it on a rag 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:14.480 and you put it over your mouth and you inhale 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.119 that stuff and it'll knock you out. It's one of 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:22.520 your all the time, it really does. She did the 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:24.639 story about why that happened. We'll get into some of 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:26.639 that a little later on. But the long and the 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:28.520 short of it is is that they went to trial. 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:33.400 She was put on trial, he testifies against her. The 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:37.440 jury cannot make it stick. That or the prosecution can't 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.360 make it stick, and therefore the jury cannot come back 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:44.760 with a charge of guilty. Uh So they say, and 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:49.400 this is the great the foreman says of the jury says, um, actually, Joe, 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:51.320 here you read this all right. Here we go quote. 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.240 Although we think grave suspicion is attached to the prisoner, 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.560 we did not think there's sufficient evidence to show how 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:01.760 or by whom the chloroform was administered. Quote, dune, dune 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:06.160 done exactly, so we don't know how it got there. 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:08.320 There was a lot of puzzlement over that. Actually, I 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:10.520 don't know if you read that quote by Sir James 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.359 pet Oh, yeah, that's a great quote. It is a 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:16.160 great quote. Yeah, I said, after the trial was over, 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.240 she'd been she had been found not guilty, and so 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:22.159 she could be retried. And so he supposedly said, quote, 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.120 she should tell us, in the interests of science, how 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:29.000 she did it. She can't be tried for it again. 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:35.160 Obviously he was not convinced of her innocence. Obviously not. Well, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:39.280 it's uh, it's almost theory time. But before we go 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:46.680 to theories, let's take a quick break. We hope you're 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:50.200 enjoying the Mystery of the Death of Thomas, Edward and Bartlett. 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:59.760 Here's a sneak peek into the Alienist, premiering January. A monster, 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:05.639 unleashed God, a man obsessed, he's watching, a city in fear. 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:10.600 Monday's on T and T, the Hunt for Pure Evil 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:14.520 begins combined Killer swacklem on us, based on the best 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:19.720 selling novel Daniel brul Lukevitt and the coda, Fetti compels 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:24.720 him to do e be a new limited series Mondays 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:34.280 at ninety central on T and T. And we're back. Yeah, 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:37.760 and let's get into those theories. Yea. So the first 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:42.320 theory is suicide. The theory is that and some people 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.800 say that the only way that that the chloroform could 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:47.840 have got down his through his mouth and his throat 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.320 into a stomach fast enough and not cause any visible 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:55.240 burns was if someone were to have willingly and quickly 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:58.320 drank it. Yeah, next to put some brandy or something 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:00.720 and just check it right down. Yeah. Yeah. And and 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.440 the problem is is that, you know, back, I mean, 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.960 this is eighteen six at this point, so other than 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:09.960 a visual inspection of his throat, you know, today they 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.159 could take a microscope and they could probably do some 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.320 analysis to figure that stuff out, like how long did 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.560 it take to actually swallow it all? But today we don't. 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.800 At that time, they didn't have that ability, So we 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:25.080 can't do like a fine, a fine examination of it. 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:28.199 I mean, as we talked about before, he is supposedly, 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:31.680 uh you know, he had been in ill health, and 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.160 he had been told that he only had one year 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:38.040 to live. And there's the fact that he had, so 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:40.399 he hasn't his he hadn't his will for a long time, 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:43.960 that everything went to his wife with stipulation, which was 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:48.199 common in that time, that she didn't remarry. Strangely, he 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:51.760 changed his will about three months prior to that, at 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:56.520 the encouragement of George Dyson. So people say, well, that's 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:00.480 that's an odd bought about that. Um, And we talked 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:02.920 about this before, is that it may have been that 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:06.000 he wanted them, as Joe had pointed out before, to 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:09.320 hook up and become a couple, and if he were 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:11.960 just to remove himself from the picture, that would be 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:15.960 the most expedient way to make that happen. Yeah, it 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.120 does make sense, It does appear, and it's been said 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:22.119 by any various people that he thought Dyson would be 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:25.440 the ideal husband after his death. And the other thing 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:27.959 to keep in mind is people say, well, I mean, 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:32.520 drinking chloroform apparently tastes really hideous. And there's that whole 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:35.880 thing about remember the brandy. There's that glass of brandy 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:38.040 in there. There's a bottle of brandy in the room 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:40.160 and a glass with brandy in it. So people say, well, 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:44.680 maybe he poured it into the brandy to cut the flavor, 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:50.960 and that helped prevented from causing burns. I mean, the problem, 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:53.840 the hard part about chloroform is that, and this applies 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:56.400 to all of our theories, is there isn't a whole 0:22:56.440 --> 0:23:00.800 lot of data about how quickly it will take it 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:04.240 will kill someone. So I don't know if he was 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:07.160 intending to take his own life, would he have known 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:09.760 if he had enough, and how long it would take 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:13.359 doesn't take much. My understanding that that's clarifying apparently, and 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:16.840 it's very fairly small doses can stop your heart, We'll see. 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:19.880 That's the thing. I saw stuff where a guy had 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:23.200 had about about like a quarter of an ounce and 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:25.199