WEBVTT - Episode 7 - The Ghost 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:04.800 My dad was a police officer. 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:08.720 He actually worked at Nearmark Police Department for seven years 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:12.040 when I was a kid growing up, and then he 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:15.520 ultimately left and he went to Metro Dad Police Department, 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.120 which happens to be the same department that Gil Fernandez 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:18.479 worked for. 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:23.480 By March of twenty twenty four, Detective Danny Smith had 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.760 been the lead investigator on the Billy Halpern cold case 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.680 for eighteen months, knowing that his father had been a 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:33.880 Miramar police officer in nineteen eighty six at the time 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:37.479 of the original investigation, I asked Danny if there was 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.080 anything he would like to ask his father if he 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:40.880 was still around. 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:45.479 I'm curious as to the general sense of maybe urgency 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:47.040 on clearing it. 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.120 Was this something where it was all hands on deck. 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:51.440 Would they just say put all your stuff down with 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:55.560 everyone to work this or was it just like another 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:59.320 murder violent eighties and we'll do what we can and 0:00:59.320 --> 0:00:59.960 then we'll move on. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.840 Over the course of his own investigation, Danny's been able 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:07.319 to verify a lot of what was in the original 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.760 case file. The detectives that were Billy's case in nineteen 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:15.319 eighty six were thorough and buy the book, but with 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.520 everything that we've learned about this case, it still bothers 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.840 us that Billy Hoppin's murder was never cleared and that 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:26.280 his killers were never ideed or held accountable. 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:31.399 I think that there was a small portion of that 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:36.200 where the investigators knew who were involved, they knew the 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:41.119 crew that was involved, and they felt good getting at 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:45.360 the very least kill Fernandez and Bert Christie indicted and 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:46.440 then found guilty. 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.520 That's a sentiment shared by Billy's friend Dave Fosano. 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.920 I think that it was true that they didn't pursue 0:01:55.920 --> 0:02:00.000 anything else because they're doing life, so that the cops 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:04.720 and detectives just didn't pursue anything else. I believe that. 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:06.400 Do you think that's right? 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:13.080 No, because those families don't have clothing. Well, I'm almost 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:15.440 ready to cry, I am. 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:20.400 I'm just picturning. He was such a nice guy. I 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.840 loved him like a brother. He was very good to me. 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:25.520 We had a lot of good times. 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:30.080 I wish he was alive today because we would still 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:32.959 be by my side and he'd be so proud of me. 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.440 Jil Fernandez and Burt Christie's conviction on the Danger Road 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:42.160 murders brought an end to a complicated investigation, but it 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.839 also left some important unanswered questions, like who stormed into 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.000 Billy Halpern's town home, strangled him and then cut his 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:54.040 throat so deeply he was nearly decapitated, What did he 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.000 actually know that made him a target for such a 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:01.079 brutal murder? And is it possible that someone within law 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.760 enforcement had tipped off the ex cop Gil Fernandez about 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.680 which members of the Apollo Jim posed a threat to 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:09.960 his criminal enterprise. 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:13.440 Danny was determined to keep digging. 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:19.680 I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff, and 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:31.160 this is cold blooded the Apollo Jim murders. Harry Collier 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:33.960 was a reputed hit man from the Northeast, with an 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:38.000 obsession with knives and a close relationship with Gil Fernandez 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:42.200 and Bert Christie, and in nineteen eighty six, he was 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.720 also married with his first child on the way. When 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:49.720 Detective Danny Smith spoke to his widow, she confirmed that 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:54.240 Collier's behavior had become erratic and suspicious in the months 0:03:54.240 --> 0:04:00.280 around Billy's murder and leading up to his own, whether 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.760 that was due to his steroid use or his new 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:07.600 job working for gil Fernandez doing what he called private investigations. 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:11.960 She was never sure, but she told Danny that there 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.920 were telltale signs that he was involved in something criminal. 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.760 Guns stashed at their home, new cars, secretive late night 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:25.239 phone calls, and even talk of one last big score, 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:31.480 one that Harry Collier never returned from. But Collier's widow 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:34.680 also made Danny aware of a piece of evidence that 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:39.440 may prove critical improving his involvement in Billy Halpern's murder, 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:44.799 a blood stained towel she discovered in her home shortly 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:49.400 after her husband was killed. It felt like a long shot, 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:53.000 but if forensic analysts could pull Billy's DNA from the 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.359 forty year old stains, it would be the first direct 0:04:56.480 --> 0:05:01.120 connection between Collier and the crime scene and all but 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:05.599 proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Collier was indeed one 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:07.160 of Billy's killers. 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:12.120 It's been almost a year that we've been actively involved 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:13.240 in this case. 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.080 Christina Savito at DNA Labs International is an expert in 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:22.640 collecting and identifying DNA, and her dedication to this case 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.760 has made her an invaluable member of the team. 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.960 The first piece of evidence that we looked at back 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:35.279 in March of last year, were two pieces of electrical tape, 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.200 so there was electrical tape from the left wrist and 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:41.640 then electrical tape from the right wrist, which had also 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.559 a rubber glove tip on it as well. 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.400 Danny thought the electrical tape and the glove tip would 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:53.040 certainly identify the men that bound and killed Billy Halper, 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.400 but as we've learned, it's never that easy. 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.000 The DNA sample recovered was just too small. 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.880 All but Danny's hopes were lifted when Christina combined the 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:07.279 samples from the tape and the glove and the DNA 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:12.000 mixture indicated the presence of three unknown individuals. 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.320 When you have a mixture with multiple people, we have 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:20.640 a software that we use. It's called star Mix. It 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:25.000 helps us to resolve some of these mixtures and at 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:30.520 times it can pull out individual profiles for the contributors 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:36.400 or the people in that mixture. Unfortunately, for this sample, 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.279 it wasn't able to pull out a specific profile for 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:44.920 the people or the individuals in that mixture. However, it's 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.240 still suitable for comparison, so any standards that we get 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:52.159 at any point in time can be compared to this DNA. 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:55.760 Profile in other words, this was not just a matter 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.840 of dropping the DNA profile into codis and having it 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.359 spit out the name of Billy's killer. We would need 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:06.880 a one to one comparison between this DNA profile and 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:11.360 a potential suspect. But here was the problem. Danny didn't 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:13.520 have the DNA from any of the men at the 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.000 top of his suspect list, the men he suspected of 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:21.320 attacking Billy at his home, Harry Collier, Jimmy high Note, 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:27.520 or Gil Fernandez. The blood samples on the spot cards 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:31.160 from high Note and Collier stored by Browerck County ended 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:37.400 up being too degraded and yielded no viable DNA. Fingernail 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:41.360 clippings from Billy Haupern showed no evidence of foreign tissue 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.960 or blood, and strands of the killer's hair that was 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.360 supposed to be sealed in an evidence envelope had mysteriously 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:53.600 gone missing. But the DNA profile Christina had developed still 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.360 had crucial evidentiary value. 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.400 Because this is a sample that is suitable for compares garrison. 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.680 At this point we have that we just need additional 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.160 standards to compare to in order to figure out who 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:08.840 might be contributing to that DNA profile. 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:11.880 The solution was straightforward. 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:14.320 Danny needed to find a way to get a fresh 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:20.920 DNA sample from suspects that were either unwilling, missing, or dead. 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.680 That actually happens more than you would think, so, especially 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:30.760 with these cool cases. You know, people pass away and 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.120 they're still suspects, right, and you can't go out and 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:36.480 get a buckle swab because they're gone. And maybe you 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.040 could go out and exoom their bones and try to 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.600 get a reference sample that way, but that's obviously time 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:46.120 consuming and it's costly. So one option we have is 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:50.080 using the DNA profile from a relative, and. 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:51.800 So that's exactly what Danny did. 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:56.320 Collier's adult son consented to a cheek swab and agreed 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.800 to submit his DNA for comparison. 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.720 Able to pull out a DNA profile and we're able 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.400 to compare it, we can run something like a paternity 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:10.080 statistic and say, okay, well this person can't be ruled out. 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:16.040 Christina developed a DNA profile of Harry Collier's son, and 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.120 Danny and I held our breaths waiting for the results. 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:26.080 So we compared him to the electrical tape sample and 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.960 he was excluded as a contributor to the mixed DNA profile. 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:35.440 With almost certainty, Harry Collier had been excluded as a 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:39.080 contributor to the DNA found on the electrical tape used 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:43.240 to tie up Billy halper It was a letdown, for sure, 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:47.920 But maybe it just meant that Collier never touched the tape. 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:51.880 Maybe he just held the knife, And now we might 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:56.120 even have the proof that he was in the room. 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:00.120 And then there was also a white towel which was 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.679 collected from Collier's wife at the time. 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:08.120 Who apparently told us that he brought it home from 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:10.400 on one night and it was full of blood. 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:15.280 My hope and Danny's hope was this was the hail Mary, 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:16.000 so to speak. 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:22.160 So in the seventh report, we collected a sample from 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.280 the right from both sides of the towel. 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:30.040 After all, if the bloodstained towel that Collier's widow found 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:34.000 contained any of Billy Halpern's DNA, it would prove a 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:38.080 direct link between Collier and the helping crime scene. Why 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.319 else would Collier be in possession of a towel containing 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.040 a murder victim's blood unless he was there wiping the 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.520 victim's blood from his hands, his face, or even the 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:53.240 murder weapon itself. The towel in question had been stored 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.720 at the Briar Sheriff's office. Danny took custody of the 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:00.240 evidence and delivered it to Christina. 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.960 We used a collection device known as the end back, 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:06.880 and I like to think of it as almost like 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:09.360 something like a wet vacuum that you would use in 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.000 your house, like if you use one to clean carpet, 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:16.319 for example. It's like that, but for DNA. After we 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.079 vacuum it up and we collect that liquid, we run 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:23.439 it through a filter where it basically catches the DNA 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.480 but allows all the other liquid to flow through, and 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.000 then we cut out that filter and that's what's set 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:32.000 forward in the laboratory. 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:37.560 As suspected, there was DNA present on the towel. 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.680 The DNA profile obtained from that sample with a mixture 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.520 of at least two individuals with at least one male contributor, 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:51.439 but unfortunately, due to the complexity of that sample, it's inconclusive. 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:54.040 The likely cause. 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.319 The towel had gone through the washing machine before it 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:01.160 was given over to police. The brown stain remained, but 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:05.360 the DNA that survived was just too degraded to be 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:06.280 of much use. 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:11.760 We discussed it here internally, and we decided that we 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.680 wanted to do another sample and try a little bit 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.120 of a different strategy in the laboratory, try maybe some 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:21.840 other cleanup methods to try to see if we could 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.200 really get a cleaner sample that would get us a 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:29.000 better profile. When we did that, we obtained a mixture 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.079 of at least three individuals with at least one male contributor, 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.400 But unfortunately it was still too complex and it was 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.640 inconclusive for comparison purposes as a result. 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:41.160 I've got to be honest here. 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.640 At this point, Danny and I were both starting to 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.040 lose hope that science was going to solve this case. 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.440 It just felt like one strikeout after another. 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.760 Over time, DNA is going to break down, and you know, 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:57.600 you're kind of almost in a race with it. You 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:01.960 want to use the new technolog as best as possible, 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:03.679 but you don't want to use it if there's not 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.640 a good chance you might get a result. So if 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:11.000 we had this technology ten twenty years ago, then maybe 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.440 the results would have looked different. So I think time 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:19.079 has definitely been a factor here, and unfortunately a negative 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:19.720 factor here. 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.160 But Danny Smith had been deep in the count before 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:27.600 and was still hopeful that there was one more DNA 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.600 sample he could still get, but it would mean getting 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.120 back inside the Florida State Prison and taking something from 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:40.160 the one guy least likely to give it up, gil Fernandez. 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.320 Danny's theory from the beginning was that Billy Haupurn was 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:57.960 overpowered by multiple assailants, and one of those men could 0:13:58.000 --> 0:13:59.199 have been gil Fernandez. 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.800 Could help prove it. Here's Danny. 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.719 Well Go, being in the system, being in prison and 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:12.840 convicted of multiple felonies. He was swabbed, his DNA was taken, 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.960 and his DNA profile was uploaded into CODIS. 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:19.800 The evidence that we have is good. 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.720 For a one to one comparison, so I can't use 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:27.120 the DNA profile that's in CODIS to compare to the 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:30.880 evidence that we have, so I need to actually get 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.320 another physical sample for that comparison. 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:39.000 But as he explains, that was easier said than done. 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:43.160 Normally, in a situation like this, we would get a 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:45.920 warrant and a judge would sign it, and we would 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.440 be able to go ahead and collect his DNA and it. 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:49.720 Would be very simple. 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:53.240 However, in this case, I don't have probable cause to 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:54.400 get that body warrant. 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.960 Bill was an ex cop, he was already doing life 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:03.320 in prison. He had zero incentive to volunteer his own 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.480 DNA to help an investigation that could potentially bring yet 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.960 another murder charge against him, maybe as many as five. 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.240 But as Christina explains, there was another way to get 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:20.480 his DNA, one that would leave Fernandez none the wiser. 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.360 A secondary standard is something where we don't take it 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:29.800 directly off of something, but it's something that if we 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.920 get a single source DNA profile, you know there's a 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.280 reasonable expectation that it would come from that individual. So 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.240 you know, police officers, for example, if they can't get 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.960 a warrant for someone's DNA, they might try to collect 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:49.040 discarded items like a cigarette butt or a water bottle 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:50.640 or a coffee cup. 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:57.080 He's been rafered for thirty plus years, and the idea 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.560 would be to work with the Office of the Inspector 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:05.160 General and see if there's a way that we can 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.400 surrepiciously obtain an abandoned sample without him knowing. 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:14.480 But as you can imagine, there were significant obstacles to 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:18.320 this approach too. The guy has been in this particular 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.800 prison camp for thirty years and believe it or not. 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:29.040 Even a convicted killer like Gil Fernandez makes friends inside the. 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:32.160 Fact that he's ben in prison, he has a relationship 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:37.720 with the correction's officers. Presumably, I don't know if. 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:40.160 He's going to get tipped off. 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.960 I don't know that if I try to get an 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:48.600 abandoned sample from him, that somebody's going to tip him off. 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.840 And remember, Danny had a strong suspicion that it was 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:56.640 Gill's connections in law enforcement that enabled some of his 0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:00.360 worst crimes in the past, So what was reason to 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:06.680 assume that being tipped off was again a possibility. 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.960 If he knows that we're coming for his DNA, there's 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.480 a very good possibility that he's going to try to 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:21.160 have another inmates DNA on this abandoned sample, and then 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.640 when that's tested, it'll come back to someone who has 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:29.520 no association with this case, or maybe not even South Florida, 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.520 and that'll throw a big monkey wrench into the investigation. 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.560 As long as Fernandez was in lock up in Rayford, 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:42.840 getting a trusted DNA sample would be next to impossible. 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:52.040 But then, finally, a stroke of incredible good fortune. 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:52.119 I know you just texted me to tell me to 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:53.760 jump on a call and to record it. You had 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:57.040 some pretty big news, Scott. You're not going to believe this. 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:04.040 I randomly, as I normally do, I pulled up Gill's 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:10.639 Department of Corrections page, and he's been moved. 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.800 Moved within the prison, moved to a block. 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.600 He's no longer in rape. 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:22.800 He's he's in a facility called Tomoka, which I just 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:23.359 looked it up. 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:24.520 It's in Daytona Beach. 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.480 After thirty years of the same prison camp. Gil Fernandez 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:34.919 had been moved. But why and why now? And didn't 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.200 have anything to do with this new investigation. 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:41.960 I think this is kind of stunning. 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:45.960 I mean, is there a possibility that he has struck 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.600 some kind of deal with the Feds that maybe they 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.560 moved him or did he did he get into a fight? 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:54.760 Is his life in danger? 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.560 I mean, what what are I mean? What are some 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.640 of the post I mean, what are the possibilities? 0:18:59.920 --> 0:19:02.120 I mean, he's definitely closer. It's Daytona Beach. 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:07.240 It's a few hours away as opposed to six hour drive, 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.159 so he's definitely closer to the family. I don't know 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:12.879 if he somehow cut a deal. I don't know if 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.360 it had anything to do with my visit with him, 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:20.040 the fact that he is now in a new place, 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:24.760 he may not have those relationships with the guards, with 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.720 the corrections officers that he had in Rayford, and I 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.639 may be able to kind of slide this operation in 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:33.760 a little easier. 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.199 You might have heard it in my voice, but my 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:41.480 concern was that somehow Danny's visit had spooked Gil into 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.080 cutting a deal with federal investigators and cutting Danny out 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:49.359 of gaining a potential confession. You know, the rivalry you 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.560 hear about local cops and the Feds. 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:52.720 It's real. 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:56.720 But Danny did some calling around and was able to 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.440 conclude that, as far as he could tell, Gill moved 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.000 to a new prison had been in the works for 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:07.480 a while, which means it was entirely coincidental, not a 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:11.840 result from some unwanted attention from a cold case detective. 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.600 It looks like he had been working this process well 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.960 before I even met him. So the fact that he 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.159 was moved from Rayford to Tomoka really has nothing to 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:25.280 do with my visit. And he's not working a deal. 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:31.440 He has no no plea agreement, nothing going on. He's 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:33.399 not ratting on anyone that I know of. 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.560 Just it was a coincidence, and that means Fernandez will 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.520 likely not be an alert for any surreptitious efforts to. 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:43.960 Gain his abandoned DNA. 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.160 More importantly, he likely hasn't had the time to establish 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:52.760 the same relationships with inmates and possibly even correction officers 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.399 that could potentially tip them off to these efforts. The 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.000 move to a new prison was intended to be a 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.760 reward for good behavior and a way for him to 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:06.199 finish his sentence closer to his family. But even for 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.800 an ex cop and model prisoner, being the new guy 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:11.440 has its strawbacks. 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:17.000 The initial plan was simply to have a couple of 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:23.080 different officers or investigators that work in the prison to 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:27.320 do some surveillance follow him, hopefully not be seen that 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:32.320 they're following him, watching him, checking his daily routine, basically 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.040 like a pattern of life, and then once they get 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:37.879 a pattern of life, figure out a way that they 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:41.680 would be able to take some kind of something abandoned 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:45.760 from him, a sample abandoned without his knowledge. 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:49.800 But as it turns out, Danny had more allies inside 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.159 than Gilded, and the correction officers had to moke a 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:56.520 prison owed their new prisoner no favors. 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.840 They just wanted to make sure it was done right. 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:03.800 Part of the issue that was reported back to me 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:07.920 was that he's going to know that they went through 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:11.640 his specific bunk. And when I was told that, I said, 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:15.000 that's great. Actually, when you guys, when you leave and 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:17.080 you leave the bunk and you walk past all the 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.480 inmates that are sitting there trying to figure out what's 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:22.440 going on, make sure that he sees the evidence bag 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:23.800 walk past him. 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:25.800 Everyone's going to see the evidence bag. 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:29.119 No one's going to know exactly what it's about until 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:31.480 Gil gets back to his bunk and he sees that 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:33.200 his stuff was rising through. 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.520 It was a bit of gamesmanship that Danny hoped would 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:40.960 pay dividends, both practical and emotional. 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:44.160 I wanted to elicit a response. 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.680 I was hoping that, first of all, maybe get him thinking, 0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:51.600 Maybe turn the cruise on him a little bit and 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:54.480 get him nervous, have him realize that now we have 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:57.840 his DNA and there's really nothing he can do about it. 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:02.600 Danny had played nice on his first visit to Guilfernande's 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:05.960 in prison, careful not to spook him into a tight 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:09.880 lipped retreat. So this was a dramatic and clear change 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:14.440 in approach, one that would surely not go unnoticed by Gil. 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:31.000 As Sherlock Holmes famously said, the game was afoot. In 0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:33.840 search of a new DNA sample to compare with evidence 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:37.040 from the helper and crime scene, Danny had his sights 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:43.040 on gathering personal items from guil Fernandez's new prison cell. Thankfully, 0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:46.879 Danny had the full cooperation of correctional officers at the 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:50.680 Tomocha prison who actually had some ideas of their own 0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:55.480 and how to execute the operation, not just effectively, but 0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:56.879 with a little panache. 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:01.439 They actually had everyone in his pot or his area, 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:07.159 were in their bunks and their I guess space, and 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:11.720 they ultimately pulled the fire alarm and herded them into 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:15.320 another room kind of around the corner away. And when 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:18.560 they did that, they had other investigators that were more 0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:21.880 or less hidden around the corner or in another room. 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:24.560 And as soon as that room was empty, his area, 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:27.240 his bunk was empty, they went in there and they 0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:29.440 were able to remove three items. 0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:35.320 Specifically, the officers removed a toothbrush, a coffee mug, and 0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:39.879 a used water bottle, items most likely to contain gills, 0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:41.919 saliva or touch DNA. 0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:46.679 They gave me call and they said that everything was 0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:50.920 a success. They did everything appropriately. They had tann of 0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:54.600 custody and they packaged all those individually and then they 0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:56.800 fed ex them next day over to us. 0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:01.480 Upon receipt of the items, hand delivered the new evidence 0:25:01.480 --> 0:25:06.320 to Christina at DNA Labs International. After the initial test, 0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:09.920 she was confident there was a good viable sample. 0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:15.359 We received a toothbrush, a coffee cup, and a water 0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:20.000 bottle from Gilbert Fernandez, and in this case it only 0:25:20.040 --> 0:25:24.400 indicated one male contributor. So because of that, we operate 0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:29.160 under the assumption that the DNA profile is from Gilbert Fernandez. 0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:34.000 As for the comparison sample, Danny had lost a lot 0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:37.920