1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: A Vatican court just declared the biggest mistrial in memory, 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: and Pope Leo returns to the Apostolic Palace. What does 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: it all mean? The Prayerful Posse will tell you next. 4 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: Welcome to this Prayerful Posse. Be sure to subscribe to 5 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: the show. We don't want you to miss any episodes. 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: And you can always support our work by going to 7 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: Raymondarroyo dot com. It's completely taxed free your donations and 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: it helps us continue the Prayerful Posse and so much more. 9 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: And I'm joined now by the canon lawyer and priest 10 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: of the Archdiocese of New York, Father Gerald Murray, and 11 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: editor in chief of the Catholic Thing dot Org, Robert Royal. 12 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: Thank you both for being here. Gents. I got to 13 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: talk about. 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: This Vatican appeals court that just declared a mistrial in 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: the Cardinal Angelo Bay shoe case. Now, this is that 16 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: financial scandal case that we've been covering for literally years. 17 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 1: It was called the trial of the Century. I guess 18 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: you could call it now the mistrial of the century. 19 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: Here's what the sixteen page decision declares. It says that 20 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: Pope Francis's own secret decrees were never published and therefore 21 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: legally void, and that prosecutors withheld evidence from the defense. 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: A Vatican court just ruled that the act of the 23 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: Pope had no effect. Father, as a canon lawyer, how 24 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: significant is this and does this throw the entire underlying 25 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: investigation into question? 26 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 3: Well, just preface by saying this is not a canon 27 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 3: law matter, it's actually Vatican City state law. So it's 28 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 3: secular law governing the conduct of people subject to the 29 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 3: Holy to the Vatican City state. But of course canon 30 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 3: law and city law and Vatican all form part of 31 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 3: the judicial system seeking justice to uphold what's right. And 32 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 3: in this case, what the judges have done I think 33 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 3: is appropriate. They have ruled that it is an interference 34 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 3: that's not permitted to change the rules without making known, promulgating, 35 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 3: or publishing that rule change. And then, in my book, 36 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 3: even more significant is the prosecution withheld the full record 37 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 3: of the evidence that they had gathered, So therefore the 38 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: defense was not able to see all of the evidence 39 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 3: upon which the prosecution was based, the excuse being that 40 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 3: the matters reserved or not revealed concerned other things under 41 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 3: investigation in the Vatican. But you just have to say, 42 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 3: quite frankly, that's how it works in a justice system. 43 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 2: If you gather. 44 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 3: Evidence in a case, you can't hold it secret. Now, 45 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 3: there are always exceptions. I'm not a civil lawyer, but 46 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 3: I understand how you make it said national security or 47 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 3: ongoing threats to people. But it's hard to imagine that 48 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 3: they could withhold part of the evidence claiming that it 49 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 3: has no bearing on the case, and the defense has 50 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 3: a right to know what that is and if necessary, 51 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 3: make use of it in their defense. 52 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: All right, father, explain to us very briefly why the 53 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: papal part of this Pope Francis has decreased, How did 54 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: that enter into this, and why is that problematic for 55 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: those not following this case closely. 56 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll give one example. He issued a decree stating 57 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 3: that you could use means to gather information, which would 58 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,559 Speaker 3: include wire tapping. So he made that a legal proceeding 59 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 3: in this case, and that, of course that's a judgment 60 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: that he's the sovereign of Vatican City state. If he wants, 61 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 3: you know, wire tapping to go on and wants it 62 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 3: to be legal, he can do that. But you have 63 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 3: to do that in such that it's known, because law 64 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 3: is published so that the subjects of the law know 65 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 3: how to tailor their behavior not to violate the law. 66 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 3: And it also laws are made public so that those 67 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 3: subjects to it can react if there's a manifest injustice 68 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 3: that has been implemented. And that's why you know, in 69 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 3: modern legal systems you have recourse against unjust laws. The 70 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 3: Holy Father decided to. 71 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: Do it this way. 72 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 3: I think he was poorly advised, and as a result, 73 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 3: now we have a mistrial, which doesn't mean that the 74 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 3: substance of what Cardinal Betsiu was convicted of is impugned. 75 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 3: There's no judgment by the court here that the sentences 76 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 3: were unjust. It's simply that procedurally the whole process is 77 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 3: vitiated because it didn't follow the law. 78 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: Bob, this prosecution is in chaos. The original prosecutor resigned 79 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: because of some procedural error. Beyond the legal mess, what 80 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: is this tell us about the Vatican culture that allowed 81 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: this trial to become such a debical in the first place, 82 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: And is the Vatican able to police itself? 83 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean this is a very complicated thing for 84 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 4: I think all of us to follow. As much as 85 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 4: we've had some good reporting and some good analysis about it. 86 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 4: I think it begins with from the problem that we're 87 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 4: dealing with is basically a non hereditary monarchy, that the 88 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 4: pope is basically a king. And that's perfectly fine in 89 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 4: terms of the way the Church has been set up, 90 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 4: the ecclesiology, the way that Christ himself is king, and 91 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 4: there's an authority that comes down from the pope. But 92 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 4: then the question is in these sort of nuts and 93 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 4: bolts about how things are being done, we have to 94 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 4: kind of descend into technicalities. And I agree with Father. 95 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 4: I think whether Pope Princess was poorly advised about this 96 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 4: or he just kind of did it. I mean, I 97 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 4: don't want to just throw around the charge that this 98 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 4: is sort of tipic, although it is kind of typical 99 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 4: with the way Pope frances operated that he relied more 100 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 4: on his own will to get things done than whatever 101 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 4: other formal and technical procedures were being called upon. And 102 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 4: you know, most Catholics don't know anything about this. In Italy. 103 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 4: They're quite familiar with these trials that go on forever 104 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 4: and that are hampered by all kinds of legal technicalities. 105 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 4: But I think if the Church at least now and 106 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 4: it seems that Pope Leo does have a different approach. 107 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 4: He's himself a canon lawyer. Of course he understands legal nizeties. 108 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 4: I think if the church wants itself to look transparent 109 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 4: and modern in the sense of the way that it 110 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 4: handles its own internal order, so that you can have 111 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 4: a trial against people. Look, I think nine or ten 112 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 4: others who were tried in the same case and they 113 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 4: were found guilty. They were found guilty of money laundering 114 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 4: and of embezzling and fraud. And then there was the 115 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 4: whole case of the real est date and ain't up 116 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 4: in London. So I mean, we just can't. For the 117 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 4: good of the church, the good order of the church first, 118 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 4: but also for the good reputation of the church, I 119 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 4: don't think we can have this going on. And so 120 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 4: we need to bring our even though we're dealing with 121 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 4: a monarchy, we need to bring the nuts and bolts, 122 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 4: the machinery of the church and matters like this and 123 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 4: many other matters into a kind of a self consistent 124 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 4: order so that we can all feel that it's it's 125 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 4: as good as it can be, and it can be. 126 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 4: It just has to be done by the guy at 127 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 4: the top. 128 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of the guy on the top, father of 129 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: Pope Leo, as Bob mentioned, is a canon lawyer, and 130 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: he opened the judicial year at the Vatican Saturday with 131 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: a speech, and he talked about justice as a path 132 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: to credibility, and that procedural safeguards quote are not merely 133 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: technical instruments, but the very conditions through which the Church's 134 00:07:54,720 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: judicial function earns that authority. So was that a quiet message, 135 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: Father Murray about this case. And what do you think 136 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: Pop Leo's posture will be when this new trial starts 137 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: in this case on June twenty second. 138 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 3: Yes, I think what the Pope said there is precisely 139 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 3: what the judges found in their decision. Standards of justice 140 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 3: and equity and legal proceedings have to be observed for 141 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 3: the good of not only the parties, but the good 142 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 3: of the entire legal system that the Vatican is maintaining. 143 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 3: It can't be seen as arbitrary, willful, unjust. And I 144 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 3: remember when I first read about these decrees being issued 145 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 3: by the Pope, saying to myself, this is a little strange, 146 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 3: because once you start a procedure, you don't change the rules. 147 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 3: And then when you withhold from the defense, the complete record, 148 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 3: Why are you doing that? Who are you protecting? So yeah, 149 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 3: I think the Pope's remarks are going to give credibility 150 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 3: to the action of these and that it'll be a 151 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,719 Speaker 3: spur to the prosecutors to be very careful in how 152 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 3: they retry the matter so that we don't have any 153 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 3: more mistrials. 154 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 1: I want to tell you about ave Maria Mutual Funds. 155 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: Ave Maria isn't just about investing, It's about living your values. 156 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: As someone who cares deeply about faith and family, and 157 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: as an ave Maria investor myself, for years, I've always 158 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: believed where we put our money matters. 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The Pope spoke 176 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: out this week asking for a ceasefire in the Middle East, 177 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: and he called the violence atrocious, and he met with 178 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: the president of the Palestinian Authority. Now, Bob, popes have 179 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: a tradition of this, uh you know, urging piece. I mean, 180 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: it's a It's the default position for the pope and 181 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: should be his default position. My question is, how do 182 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: we evaluate his intervention here calling for a cease fire 183 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: and meeting with the Palestinian authority at this moment. 184 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, when I saw his remarks, I had the same 185 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 4: reaction that you just did. 186 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 1: That. 187 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 4: Of course, a pope is going to call for peace, 188 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 4: But I think that in these circumstances, those of us 189 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 4: outside of it have to say, well, wait a second. 190 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 4: Now we're engaged in this massive assault on Iran. Iron 191 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 4: presents over and above the question of whether the just 192 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 4: work criteria have been met. We are now in a 193 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 4: situation where we have to simply do something about its 194 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 4: ability to gain a nuclear weapon and to be able 195 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 4: to deliver it with these intercontinental ballistic missiles that it's 196 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 4: been developing. And even outside of the Iran conflict, when 197 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 4: you look at the way that Israel has gone into Lebanon, Hezbolah, 198 00:11:55,320 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 4: which has been one of the Iranian sponsored tearist organizations, 199 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 4: has been firing rockets into Israel ever since this conflict began, 200 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 4: so as much as it's disturbing to us, and if 201 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 4: you looked at the destruction that Israel I'm sad to say, 202 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 4: was forced to carry out in Gaza in order to 203 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 4: get at hamas well, something similar is I don't think 204 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 4: it'll be quite as bad, but it's kind of taking 205 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 4: place in Lebanon in Beirut as well, because the Hesiblah 206 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 4: has been a terrorist organization and the Israelis are actually 207 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 4: invading and actually going house to house and trying to 208 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 4: hunt down these terrorists. Desire peace, all that you want, 209 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 4: but there's more than just a negotiation is a solution here, 210 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 4: because we've had negotiations about the two states solutions in Israel, 211 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 4: and you know, various attempted solutions in Lebanon, in Syria 212 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 4: and Iran above all, right, and they haven't worked, and 213 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 4: the region has been in turmoil and people have been 214 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 4: dying anyway. So look, if this at a position in 215 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 4: which there is greater peace and there is greater justice 216 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 4: than there was in the past, that will have made 217 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 4: this worthwhile. And we're in the midst of it right now. 218 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 4: We can't just stop now because we'll go back to 219 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 4: the same era, the same era in which we had 220 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 4: these tensions and violence going on for years and years. 221 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 2: Father, I want to talk about something a little different. 222 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: Francis Roca over at the National Catholic Register described this 223 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: moment in the Vatican has not lent, but advent because 224 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: everybody's waiting to see what Pope Leo is going to do. 225 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: This being the first year of his pontificate. That date 226 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: will reach us soon and I guess look, as he 227 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: approaches this first year anniversary on May eighth, people are 228 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: watching the appointments closely. We see him putting appointing men 229 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: around the globe. There's also the matter of him moving 230 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: back into the Apostolic Palace, which Pope Francis did not 231 00:13:55,240 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: occupy over the last thirteen years. In fact, those Apostolic compartments, 232 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: the papal apartments, sort of fell into disrepair. They had 233 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: to do massive renovations before his moving back in. What 234 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: do those two events tell you, The appointments he's making 235 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: as well as his moving back into the Apostolic Palace, 236 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: what does it tell us about the direction of this 237 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: papacy as one year is almost upon well. 238 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 3: I think he has been very slow in replacing people 239 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 3: in the vatic In the top jobs, He's only replaced 240 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 3: a few. He replaced the role he occupied when he 241 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 3: was cardinal as head of the Dicastro for bishops. He 242 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 3: replaced the papal almoner he matter. In fact, he made 243 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 3: a fellow Augustinian bishop to be the head of the 244 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 3: Pope's charity office. So I think his a reputation for 245 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 3: being a good listener, for being deliberate, for acting on 246 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 3: a reflective basis. But the message that you give when 247 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 3: you don't make a lot of changes. Is that you're 248 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 3: more or less happy with the arrangements that you herited. Now, 249 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 3: in the case of the pope, maybe that means he 250 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 3: wants to give it a year and then they'll make 251 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 3: some more moves. Undoubtedly, some of the you know, people 252 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 3: occupy top offices in the Holy See are getting older, 253 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 3: so he's going to need to make changes. But it's 254 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 3: we can say this, he didn't has not acted decisively 255 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 3: to pick known allies to occupy important roles. He's more 256 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 3: or less said the people who Post Francis had in place, 257 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 3: I'm going to keep in place. Going back to the 258 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 3: Apostolic Palace, I think that's a return to normality, if 259 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 3: I can use that expression, because it's highly unusual for 260 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 3: a pope to be living in basically what was apart 261 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 3: from being a hotel for visitors, it was also a 262 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 3: residence that different people worked in the Vatican lived in. 263 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 3: So it was had the hustle bustle of a you know, 264 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 3: a kind of a condominium complex right in and out. 265 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 3: That's not where the post should be. He requires lots 266 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 3: of guards, you know, he requires all kinds of help, etc. 267 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 3: So now in the palace completely renovated that living quarters. 268 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 3: I'm very glad he's got a gymnasium type area for exercise, 269 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 3: He's got his own little home kitchen there. You know, 270 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 3: he can return to the kind of style the popes live, 271 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 3: which is they have their private life, they live it, 272 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 3: and then they come out and they do their duties. 273 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 3: But you know, I think he deserves a place where 274 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 3: he feels at home, not saying you know who's three 275 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 3: doors down in the hotel. 276 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: Cardinal Victor Emanuel Fernandez remains head of the Doctrinal Office 277 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: of the Vatican, which you know many people see is 278 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: just a carryover from the Francis era. Do you anticipate 279 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: these major courial appointments in the Vatican forthcoming or is 280 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: this just going to be more as it was from 281 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: Pope Leo. 282 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 283 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 4: I think Father is right that he's kind of methodical 284 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 4: and he's very thoughtful in the way that he makes 285 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 4: these moves. And so, you know, some of us hope 286 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 4: that there would be at least some radical change about 287 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 4: the Latin the traditional Latin Mass and things like the 288 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 4: blessing of homosexual couples. We haven't gotten that. And frankly, 289 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 4: I don't expect that we're going to get that, although 290 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 4: we may seem some sort of moves toward establishing greater 291 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 4: peace about the liturgical problems that have been coming up 292 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 4: in the church ever since Francis chose to restrict the 293 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 4: use of the traditional Latin Mass. It would really take him. 294 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 4: It would be a major change. I mean, we could 295 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 4: look for this if he were to replace Cardinal Fernandez, 296 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 4: and Cardinal Fernandez was very controversial before he was appointed 297 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 4: to the dicaster for the Doctrine of the Faith. He 298 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 4: wrote some very eccentric things when he was living in Argentina, 299 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 4: which we don't need to go into again, but really 300 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 4: quite bizarre things sexual things. At that He's got two 301 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 4: years get left to go on his appointment, so he 302 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 4: would be around until two thousand twenty eight. If the 303 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 4: Pope really wanted it's a signal or to cause a 304 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 4: change of direction, I guess he would begin there. And 305 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,719 Speaker 4: when we do see the change there. Because the dictrintal office, 306 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 4: even though it's been kind of placed on the same 307 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 4: level as all the other so called dicastries, now they're 308 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 4: all dicasteres, it really has to be one of the 309 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 4: primary offices in the Vatican because it defines how we 310 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 4: think about faith and morals in the modern world at 311 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,479 Speaker 4: those points. So either he will just allow this to 312 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 4: continue to twenty twenty eight, not raise the waves, not 313 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 4: embarrassed Cardinal for Nanda's but if he were to make 314 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 4: a move about that, I think that would be the 315 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 4: most significant signal. We would see that a new there 316 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 4: was a new sheriff in town, in a new direction 317 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 4: for the papacy. 318 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: Look, I agree with Father as well, Bob, that it's 319 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: important that the pope returned to the Apostolic Palace, where 320 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: the pope traditionally lives and resides and is kept safe. 321 00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: All there's also something visual about the laity seeing light 322 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: on in that corner room, just to signal that, oh, 323 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: the Pope is there. The world is safe for the moment. 324 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: I think that is a return to normalcy and one 325 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: that the world needed and in the church certainly needed 326 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: at this moment. 327 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 4: You know. And I would just add quickly, Raymond, people 328 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,199 Speaker 4: ought to understand the Apostolic Palace. It sounds like this, 329 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 4: it's this marvelous, you know, place that he's going to 330 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 4: be moving into. Actually it's very plain once you get 331 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 4: up that very impressive staircase. It's almost spartan what you 332 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 4: see there. And yes, you know, he can have his 333 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 4: own kitchen, he can have his own exercise area, and 334 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 4: that's all good, because we want a healthy pope and 335 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 4: we want someone who's at home and he's he's done something. 336 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 4: Pope Francis said he wanted to be in the in 337 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 4: the guesthouse because he needed people around him. And okay, psychologically, 338 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 4: you felt that the Pope has actually gotten some of 339 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 4: his brothers from the Augustinians and a kind of a 340 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 4: community there with him, and so he's got a kind 341 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 4: of grounding among other people that I think is very solid. 342 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 4: But you're right, the symbolism of him being there and 343 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 4: everybody understanding that the Roman pontiff is in the place 344 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 4: that he ought to be, that's a good return to normality. 345 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 2: Father. 346 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 1: We anticipate a first encyclical from Poplio the fourteenth coming. 347 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: It will be focused on AI, we're told, artificial intelligence, 348 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,479 Speaker 1: and he claims, or the Vatican claims, it's in the 349 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: tradition of Leo the thirteenth Realm Novarum, which really spoke 350 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: about the rupture caused by industrialization, the civilizational shakeup that industrialization. 351 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 2: Brought to the world. 352 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: Do you see a connectivity here between industrialization and AI 353 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: and how that too is a rupture to civilization. 354 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 3: I think there's an analogy because you know, the age 355 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 3: of industrialization meant that the farm life as being the 356 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 3: you know, the central reality of most European and elsewhere 357 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 3: in the world, that was being revolutionized and people are 358 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 3: moving into city and factories were built, and that was 359 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 3: the rise of labor unions. It was also the rise 360 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 3: of socialism. 361 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 2: And all that. 362 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 3: So AI, you know, is clearly a threat to some 363 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 3: people's jobs because not these aren't farmers, but you know, 364 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 3: it's a threat to kind of like middle level managers, 365 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 3: you know, who used to do all kinds of work 366 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 3: which has now been offloaded into artificial intelligence. So that's 367 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:30,239 Speaker 3: certainly the disruption caused by a labor shift in a 368 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 3: new working environment. That's going to be something to deal with. 369 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,479 Speaker 3: But then there's the whole moral aspect. AI is a 370 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 3: reflection of the people who created and you know, where 371 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 3: will the moral judgment that's present in the soul of man, 372 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 3: how will that have a role to play? And then 373 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 3: the control aspect, because governments control all kinds of behavior. 374 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 3: Are they going to control the use of AI that 375 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 3: if it's made, you know, used to oppress people's rights, 376 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 3: to violate laws, or or to create an anti human society. 377 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 3: So we have to I'm looking forward to the document. 378 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 3: There's a lot that needs to be talked about. 379 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's certainly something on the hearts of a 380 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: lot of people, particularly as you see whole staff being 381 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: laid off. I mean I know of an HR, an 382 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: entire HR department that has now been converted to HI, 383 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: I mean to AI. The artificial intelligence is now running 384 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: the entire department where you had one hundred people working there. 385 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 2: This is a major. 386 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: Corporation, So there is a kind of traumatic change that's 387 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: about to happen here. Bob and the Pope so far 388 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: has been very cautious about artificial intelligence and its use. 389 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, let's remember that Leo the thirteenth, and it's clear 390 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 4: that Leo the fourteenth is reaching back to Leo the thirteenth. 391 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 4: Leo the thirteenth or an encyclical realm novarum of new 392 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 4: things or of revolution, depending on how you translated. And 393 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 4: it was about those things that Father was just talking 394 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 4: about the industrialization in an urbanization and whatnot. I'm a 395 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 4: little worried about this document for this reason. I mean, 396 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 4: from what we've been hearing, and these are only rumors 397 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 4: at this point. The new document is supposed to be 398 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 4: called manifica Umanitas Magnificent Humanity. Now this may just be 399 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 4: my own bugbear, but I really think that we have 400 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 4: had too much influence about the vertical dem of the 401 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 4: horizontal dimension of Christianity. Christianity is based on a cross, 402 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 4: it's got a vertical dimension, and it's got a horizontal dimension. 403 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 4: And I think one of the misfires in the papacy 404 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 4: of pot Francis was his document Dignitas infinita infinite dignity 405 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 4: of human beings. Like human beings do have dignity because 406 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 4: we're made in the image and likeness of God. But 407 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 4: I think there's been too much of an emphasis on 408 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 4: human experience, on human the human level of things, and 409 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 4: too little, I mean it's not just me saying this, 410 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 4: but too little an emphasis on that transcendence, that vertical dimension. 411 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 4: And if this new document is in fact to be 412 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 4: called magnific manifas Magnificent Humanity, it just strikes me as 413 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,479 Speaker 4: it's hitting the wrong tone. Yes, we want to preserve 414 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 4: humanity against what might become an inhuman AI system, and 415 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 4: we want to look to workers and you know, moral 416 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 4: questions and whatnot. But I think it would be better 417 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 4: to signal that right away. I don't have any alternatives 418 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 4: to suggest myself, but I would like to emphasize God 419 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 4: more than humanity at this point in our history, and 420 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 4: maybe get us away from the machines and the digital 421 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 4: world and emphasize the spiritual world. 422 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: Well, it's curious that at a moment when all these 423 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: young people are rushing to beating down the church doors 424 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: to get in because they're looking for God, the church 425 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: keeps focusing on humanity. It's a very odd thing that it's, 426 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: you know, it's rather than taking them on that journey 427 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: to God and the transcendent and the supernatural, we're kind 428 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: of wanting to be relevant with the people here. You're right, 429 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: there's an odd dichotomy happening. Hopefully that will balance out, 430 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: will get more of the vertical. I want to talk 431 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: about Cardinal Gerhard Mueller this week, who spoke out strongly 432 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,479 Speaker 1: against mass migration. This is something he's spoken out before, 433 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: but in an interview with Europeanconservative dot Com. 434 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 2: He makes the point that. 435 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: Every utterance and private idea of a pope is not 436 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: necessarily dogma, and then he goes on to say this 437 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: about mass migration, particularly in the European context. He said, 438 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: it is another question entirely whether there should come in 439 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: ten years millions and millions of Muslim migrants to change 440 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: totally the culture and provoke civil wars as happens in 441 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: majority Muslim countries. 442 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 2: End quote Father efective on this about. 443 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: The point Cardinal Mueller is making here in the state's 444 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 1: legitimate right to regulate and defend borders. 445 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 3: I mean, that's in the Catechism, absolutely, and it's true. 446 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 3: You can't have the same country if you have a 447 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 3: different set of people. So, you know, Western European people 448 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 3: believe in democracy, they believe in the rule of law, 449 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 3: they believe in the separation between the sacred and the profane. 450 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 3: They have a different notion about legitimacy for political power 451 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,239 Speaker 3: in the Muslim world that doesn't exist. It's you know, 452 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 3: all of life is regulated by the Quran. There is 453 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 3: no substitution, no differentiation, excuse me, between your private life, 454 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 3: your public life, your religious life, your political life, everything's 455 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 3: the same and the result is generally dictatorship. So that 456 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 3: people can put that into effect. I mean we're looking 457 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 3: at in Iran, all of human life was contempted to 458 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 3: be controlled by the iatolus. That is the situation that 459 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 3: could be imported into Europe if they became a majority 460 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 3: of the population. Now, why is this happening? Migration laws 461 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 3: is one thing, but also under population because of the 462 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 3: use of birth control and abortion that you don't have 463 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 3: replacement coming from the citizens who aren't having enough children. 464 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 3: So they call it what the demographic desert that's happening 465 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 3: in Europe? Italy, Spain and France have big problems because 466 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 3: they didn't have enough you know, Italian Spaniards and Frenchmen 467 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,959 Speaker 3: being born. So what is the solution? I think Cardinal 468 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 3: Muller is right. Europe has to examine its conscience and say, 469 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 3: do we want to continue to be France, Spain and 470 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 3: Italy governed by principles that we've arrived at over the centuries, 471 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 3: or do we want to invite Muslim people to come 472 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 3: in and then let them, once they become a majority, 473 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 3: change the constitution of your country. 474 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to move on, Bob, You wrote a piece. 475 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: I guess it's tied to this in some ways. He's 476 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 1: in the Catholic thing. It was called the Church is 477 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: not for Burning, and it's a real wake up call. 478 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 1: And you document there twenty nine anti Christian hate crimes 479 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: in Europe in January alone, and first talk about why 480 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: you wanted to write this and this new initiative Faith 481 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 1: under Siege that you're launching with aid to the Church 482 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: in need. 483 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, add the Church you need. Asked me to write 484 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 4: this second book on modern martyrdom that I wrote last year, 485 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 4: and we were supposed to give a copy to Pobe Francis. 486 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 4: We gave a copy to John Paul the Second in 487 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 4: two thousand and we were supposed to do the same 488 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 4: thing with Pope Francis. We were all three of us 489 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 4: over there, and then he died that very week it 490 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 4: was supposed to happen. Look, one of the things I 491 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 4: wanted to do with that recent column is, of course 492 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 4: people are who at least pay attention to Catholic things 493 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 4: know that there are Catholic martyrdoms. There's persecution in Muslim 494 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 4: countries and other places around the world. But I think 495 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 4: we neglect the fact that there is an anti Catholic 496 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 4: element in Western societies as well. And the thing that 497 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 4: I first pointed out in that column was these radical 498 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 4: feminists down in Mexico who on International Women's Day tried 499 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 4: to burn down a church in Mexico. It happened in 500 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 4: a couple of places there. It used to happen in 501 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 4: Argentina when the Holy Father, in Holy Father of Francis, 502 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,719 Speaker 4: who is an Argentinian, was reigning as pope. And this 503 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 4: group that I work with, I'm working in collaboration here 504 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 4: in the United States with a to the Church in 505 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 4: the USA on this project that we're calling Faith under 506 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 4: Siege to document what's happening around the world. But I 507 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 4: wanted to emphasize in particular there the way that things 508 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 4: are happening in the Americas, and we've had recent church vandalism. 509 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 4: It's happening up in Canada. In Europe, there's a great 510 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 4: group in Vienna in Vienna, Austria called the Observatory for 511 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 4: Anti Christian Acts in Europe and they go month by 512 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 4: month and they document these things. Last year there were 513 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 4: a thousand anti Christian acts in Europe, and as you 514 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 4: rightly say, there were almost thirty almost one a day, 515 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,719 Speaker 4: just in January of twenty twenty six, So, you know, 516 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 4: if you want to be careful about what's happening, and 517 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 4: a lot of this, I mean it's sometimes hard to 518 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 4: document who's doing it, but I think we have to 519 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 4: just say logically, a lot of it has to do 520 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 4: with Islam, and there are specific cases that they do 521 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 4: document in Spain, in Italy, a lot in France, a 522 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 4: lot in the UK that these foreign populations, as much 523 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 4: as we would like to be, you know, extend a 524 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,719 Speaker 4: welcome to people who are refugees, it's bringing in people 525 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 4: who have a different view of the world than we do. 526 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 4: And they are militantly anti Christian and they always have 527 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 4: been from the beginning. I said in there that if 528 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 4: you don't believe this, you have to ignore centuries of 529 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 4: history and you have to be ignorant of the The 530 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 4: Quran calls for repelling Jews in Christians in various ways. 531 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 4: So this is something all of us need to be 532 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 4: vigilant about. Raymond, and I think we have to repeat 533 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 4: this over and over again, even to remind ourselves. 534 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've been covering this in recent weeks. I mean, 535 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: there was a slew of these stories. Well we did 536 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: it last week on the vandalism in these churches you know, 537 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: happening all over South America, in the United States, church 538 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: burnings in France. It goes on and on and on, 539 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: and it doesn't get enough attention. 540 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 2: So I'm glad you raised it. A controversy erupted this week. Father, 541 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: there was a. 542 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: Picture President Trump in the Oval Office being prayed over 543 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: by Christian leaders, mostly evangelicals. You know, they had their 544 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: hands out over them, and the backlash was fierce. My 545 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: question is is this. 546 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 2: Question legitimate? 547 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: I mean, the question they're asking is where does public 548 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: policy end or public piety and political opportunism begin. 549 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 2: Do you see that here? 550 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: Or is this just an anti Christian reflect we're seeing. 551 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 3: You know, if the President United States want people to 552 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 3: come in and pray with him, so be it leave 553 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,479 Speaker 3: him in peace. That's a prejudice against the President's faith 554 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 3: and against those that he associates with. That's unacceptable. You know, 555 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 3: it's up to the President United States to determine how 556 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 3: he wants to live his faith in the public eye. 557 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 3: So no, I have no problem with that. John F. 558 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 3: Kennedy used that mass said in the White House when 559 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,239 Speaker 3: he was president. I have no problem with that. If 560 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 3: we had a Jewish president and he wanted to conduct 561 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 3: you know, Jewish prayers in the White House, God bless him, 562 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 3: let him do it. 563 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, Bob any thoughts on that. 564 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: I mean, there is you know, the pictures come out, 565 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: and I think it makes some people squirrely when they 566 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: see that. 567 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 4: Well, if the assumption is that they're praying over him 568 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 4: is endorsing him, that's one thing. If I would take 569 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 4: a more neutral stance about this and just say I 570 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 4: hope he gets all the grace that they can possibly 571 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 4: call on from God, because the President of the United 572 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 4: States far more than most of us needs it. 573 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. 574 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: No, given the way to the office, a little extra 575 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: prayer can't hurt anybody. Archbishop Salvator Cordlione, who's a member 576 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: of the President's Religious Freedom Commission, he's calling for conscience 577 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: protections for faith based health care providers, hospitals, clinics, etc. 578 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: Who have religious objections to certain procedures like abortion and contraceptives. 579 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:30,959 Speaker 2: Here's what he wrote. 580 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: In California, where I am, there's a Catholic hospital being 581 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: sued by the state because it refuses to offer abortions. 582 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 2: Should the courts rule the wrong way. 583 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: In this case, all Catholic hospitals in California could be threatened. Bob, 584 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: is this really is the church making this case urgently 585 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: enough for exemptions for these faith based health care providers. 586 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 4: Well, there are people like Archbishop Quarterlione and Bishop Baron 587 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 4: has spoken about actually our bishops as a whole, who 588 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 4: have been rather good and constantly bringing this up. I 589 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 4: don't know that they've they've kind of been able to 590 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 4: break through in terms of public perception of what's actually 591 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 4: going on because they're also I mean, we hear about 592 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 4: the little Sisters of the poor, for example, being and 593 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 4: this has been going on for years and years, the 594 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 4: idea that somehow, back in the Obama days, the little 595 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 4: sisters of the poor are being pressured to pay for contraception. 596 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 4: I mean, why in the world does the US government, 597 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 4: the government of the most powerful country on earth, have 598 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 4: to pursue the little sisters of the poor. And it's 599 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 4: still going on right now. And the archbasial Courterlone is 600 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 4: pointing to the specific case in that hospital, But this 601 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,839 Speaker 4: happens in all sorts of different places, and I'm even 602 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 4: worried that it happens earlier than that that when people 603 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 4: apply to medical school there, they apply to a nursing school, 604 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 4: and maybe even when they apply to a law school, 605 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,839 Speaker 4: and there are questions about, you know, whether they think 606 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 4: about abortion, or about trans people or whatnot. I mean, 607 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 4: there's been a way that this of progressivism has warmed 608 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 4: its way into our legal system and our politics in 609 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 4: which these positions that orthodox Christians take, that our at 610 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 4: variance with much of the mainstream in America, are almost 611 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 4: regarded as disqualifying. So I think there's a very big 612 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 4: question here that needs to be dealt with. I applaud 613 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,399 Speaker 4: President Trump for his attempts to defend Christians. He's talked 614 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 4: about this specifically in our society, and it's not just 615 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 4: against attacks like anti Semitism and Islamophobia. I think that 616 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 4: it's that deeper cultural question that has to make it 617 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 4: possible for us to be Christians, to be Catholics in public, 618 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 4: and not to suffer penalties as a result. 619 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, Father, this really is I mean, like that case 620 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: of the Little Sisters of the Poor, it goes on 621 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: and on and on. It's just amazing that they're still 622 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: battling this all this time later. Clearly there's something Congress 623 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: can do here to give these religious orders, these religious hospitalers, 624 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: an exemption. 625 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 3: At Congress and the courts, you know. I mean, the 626 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 3: Supreme Court is obviously on the side of religious freedom. 627 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,320 Speaker 3: We've seen that in so many cases. But these states 628 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 3: keep doing this. The state of California wants people to 629 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 3: have abortions, then the state of California should make it 630 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 3: possible for them. I think that's a horrendous criminal thing 631 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 3: to do, but that's up to the government of the 632 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 3: people in the state of California. But forcing private Catholic 633 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,359 Speaker 3: hospitals to carry out the will of the government, Isn't 634 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 3: that why we rebelled against King George. So you know, 635 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 3: when the leadership goes into your house and say you 636 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 3: have to do this, you have to do that. From 637 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,959 Speaker 3: a just a legal and American point of view, it's horrendous. 638 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 3: From a moral point of view, it shows the demoralization 639 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 3: of our society when killing innocent children is considered a 640 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 3: government function that has to be enforced on private citizens. 641 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 3: This is how bad things have gotten in our country. 642 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 3: We have to keep praying for an end of this mentality. 643 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 3: People have to wake up and say, why is it 644 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 3: right to kill a baby in the womb. There is 645 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 3: no right for that. It's wrong, it's wrong, and we 646 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 3: have to say that over and over again. 647 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: I want to turn to our rays of light to 648 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: try to lift our proceedings a little bit. This week, 649 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: with all these controversies, with all the things we've discussed, 650 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:25,359 Speaker 1: it did mark the commemoration of two great saints, one 651 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: father Jerry. I know, in your fair city of New York, 652 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: you had the new Archbishop, Ronald Hicks take his first 653 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: march in the Saint Patrick's Day parade. He was joined 654 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 1: by the Mayor Mandani, who snubbed him, snubbed his installation 655 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: earlier on, and has not been particularly kind to Catholics. 656 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: What do you think that represents beyond the green beer 657 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: and the bagpipes, what does that moment represent to New 658 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: Yorkers and to the rest of the country. 659 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's focused on Irish heritage and I'm Irish. 660 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 3: Did the DNA test ninety eight percent? Irish happy when 661 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 3: we celebrate Saint Pat's But what really celebrates is faith 662 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 3: in God. Because the immigrants built the cathedral, and they 663 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 3: named Saint Patrick the patrons and of the Arsthiasis because 664 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 3: religious belief was the most important thing in their life. 665 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 3: Jesus Christ, the savior of the world. That's what Saint 666 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 3: Patrick brought to the Irish, and they're grateful for it. Now, 667 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 3: politicians show up at almost every parade because there are 668 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 3: a lot of voters there and the media covers it. 669 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 3: But you know, I think it's kind of hypocritical, if 670 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 3: I can say that respectfully, for the mayor to not 671 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 3: go to the installation ceremony, which every mayor has done 672 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,879 Speaker 3: for the past hundred years apparently. But he shows up 673 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 3: when it's a parade time and he wants to give 674 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 3: his good view to the work, to the media and 675 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 3: to the people. Come on, mayor, show some real respect. 676 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 3: You know. All we're asking is that you treat people 677 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 3: with the kind of respect that you demand for yourself. 678 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 3: You want to be respected for what you believe. We 679 00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 3: want to be respected for what we believe. 680 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: Bob he Mandani took the opportunity to tie Saint Patrick's 681 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: day in his message to the Palestinian cause. 682 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 2: I don't think that went down well with the Irish Now. 683 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 4: I think that there's a definitely lack of Irish in 684 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 4: Greater Palestine these days. I don't think there was a 685 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,439 Speaker 4: lot of green beer being drunk and drunk there. I mean, look, 686 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 4: in one way, you could say, you know, God bless 687 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 4: America that we can have a Muslim mayor marching in 688 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 4: Irish in an Irish parade. But you know the other 689 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 4: side of this is a little bit worrisome, and that 690 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,839 Speaker 4: is that this can turn out to be a kind 691 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 4: of a superficial I mean, all celebrations, all parades, are 692 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 4: kind of fun, but this can be a superficial thing 693 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,280 Speaker 4: rather than a deeper thing. If what it really leads 694 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 4: to is a more live and let live type attitude 695 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 4: toward people that is helpful in a pluralistic society like ours. 696 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 4: If what it leads to instead is to what I 697 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,320 Speaker 4: think are very dangerous things that mayor mom Donnie is proposing, 698 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,839 Speaker 4: like taking over private property and moving New York City, 699 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 4: which is not a socialist city, in a decidedly authoritarian 700 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 4: socialist direction that I don't like. And if he's using 701 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 4: the Irish as a cover, I think that's unfortunate. 702 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,879 Speaker 1: But yeah, well for me, it's the twenty seventh anniversary 703 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: of my first son's birth on Saint Patrick's Day, so 704 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: you know we're all Irish in the royal household because 705 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: of that, and that's the big reason. So I love 706 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,360 Speaker 1: to Alex and of course his mom who made me 707 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: a dad on that day, so it's a big day 708 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 1: for us. And then Saint Joseph's Day, of course in 709 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: New Orleans one of the lovely things about and I 710 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: know what happens in New York as well, father, and 711 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,440 Speaker 1: in other places where the Sicilian community builds these beautiful 712 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: Saint Joseph alters. And what I love about it is 713 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: it ties the celebration to the sacred, so you don't 714 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 1: have kind of this secular version of a Saint Joseph Alter. 715 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 2: It's all Catholic and into the feast day. Talk to 716 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:02,879 Speaker 2: me about that. 717 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: You know, there's no there's no yellow beer being drink drunk, 718 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: or you know, wild parades going on on Saint Joseph Day. 719 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: It's a very different type of celebration. Father, I'll let 720 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: you talk. 721 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, No, Saint Joseph is dear to the Italian people 722 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 3: here in New York, dear to all Catholics. But no, 723 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 3: what I love about Saint Joseph's Feast Day is it's 724 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 3: a reminder the Catholic Church is God's family on earth, 725 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 3: and it's the extension of the Holy Family. The Holy 726 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 3: Family was made up of Jesus, Mary and Joseph, and 727 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 3: Joseph was the protector. He was a strong man, but 728 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 3: he was a silent man. There's no recorded word of 729 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 3: Saint Joseph in the New Testament, but his influence is 730 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 3: great because he was the protector of the Virgin Mary 731 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,839 Speaker 3: and of the Christ Child. And if there's anything our 732 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,280 Speaker 3: society needs is protection. We need somebody like Saint Joseph. 733 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 3: Thank God he does intercede for us. 734 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 735 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 1: Well, we will leave it there. On that happy note, gentlemen, 736 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: A happy week to you all. Thank you for being here. 737 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: And look, if you'd like more of the Royal Grande 738 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 1: prayerful posse, subscribe to the Arroyo Grande channel wherever you 739 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 1: get your podcasts or on YouTube and on behalf of 740 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 1: Father Jerry Murray Robert Royal. 741 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,040 Speaker 2: Remember, stay the course, follow the light. We'll see you 742 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 2: next time. 743 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with DP Studios and 744 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts and is available on the iHeartRadio app or 745 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.