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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Grossel from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: Todd Blanche came under immediate fire at his confirmation hearing

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Speaker 2: to become the next attorney general. President Trump's former personal

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Speaker 2: lawyer was repeatedly asked about his close relationship with Trump,

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Speaker 2: and his response is didn't seem to answer the concerns

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Speaker 2: about how independent the Justice Department would be under his leadership.

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Speaker 3: The Department of Justice, like every single department in the executive,

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Speaker 3: is part of the executive. I mean Article two of

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Speaker 3: the Constitution gives the power of the executive to President Trump.

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Speaker 3: So we certainly operate with integrity. We certainly operate in

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Speaker 3: the single mindset to serve the American people and do

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Speaker 3: the right thing. But I am a member. If confirmed,

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Speaker 3: I will be a member of the cabinet.

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Speaker 2: And then there was the verbal slip when Republican Senator

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Speaker 2: John Kennedy asked him about his friend with Trump.

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Speaker 1: Are you in President Trump friends?

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Speaker 3: I'm his lawyer, was his lawyer, and now I'm the

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Speaker 3: deputy Attorney general.

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Speaker 2: But perhaps there were more questions about the one point

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Speaker 2: eight billion dollar anti Weaponization Fund than any other topic.

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Speaker 2: Despite Blanche insisting that the fund to compensate allies of

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Speaker 2: Trump was not moving forward. Senators, including Republican John Cornyn,

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Speaker 2: appeared skeptical because the Trump administration has yet to commit

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Speaker 2: in writing that the fund is dead and the settlement

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Speaker 2: agreement could conceivably be resurrected.

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Speaker 4: And is a settlement agreement enforceable as a contract by

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Speaker 4: the parties?

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Speaker 3: Well, yes, it's an enforceable document. So I suppose if

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Speaker 3: President Trump's council sought to enforce it that they potentially could.

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Speaker 4: Including the weaponization fund.

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Speaker 3: Well, they can try to enforce it.

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Speaker 2: Blanche needs the support of all the Republicans on the

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Speaker 2: Judiciary Committee to move his nomination forward. Joining me is

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Speaker 2: constitutional law expert David Souper, a professor at Georgetown Law. David,

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Speaker 2: what's your general impression of how Blanche did so far?

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Speaker 4: I mean, he's a smart lawyer. There are some lawyers

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Speaker 4: in Trump's orbit who are completely incompetent. Blanche is certainly

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Speaker 4: not one of those, and he's I think, fairly quick

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Speaker 4: on his feet. But he's got a record that's very

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Speaker 4: difficult to defend, and he's got a boss who won't

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Speaker 4: let him promise to do things that any reasonable Attorney

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Speaker 4: General would do. So he's been in a box several times.

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Speaker 4: Some of the Democrats have done a pretty good job

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Speaker 4: of pinning him down, some of them have done a

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Speaker 4: less good job of pinning him down, and some of

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Speaker 4: them have just talked.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot of questions about whether Blanche would

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Speaker 2: be independent from President Trump, and in response to a

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Speaker 2: question from Democratic Senator Chris Coons, Blanche basically said that

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Speaker 2: the Justice Department is part of the executive branch. If confirmed,

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Speaker 2: he'll be part of the cabinet and we all serve

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Speaker 2: at the pleasure of the president. I don't know that

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Speaker 2: he ever really asserted independence from the president.

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Speaker 4: Well, he really didn't. I mean, at one point he

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Speaker 4: said that we will act with integrity. At another point

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Speaker 4: he made the predictable statement that, of course, if he

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Speaker 4: was asked to do something illegal, he would resign, but

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Speaker 4: that would never happen with this president. But he is

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Speaker 4: part of a Justice Department that is asserting a historically

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Speaker 4: broad reading of presidential powers, which includes no independence for

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Speaker 4: anybody in the executive branch, himself included. So he can't

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Speaker 4: claim to be independence without having that used against his

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Speaker 4: own lawyers when they're asserting their unified executive theory.

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Speaker 2: So everyone knew that a big point was going to

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Speaker 2: be the so called Anti Weaponization Fund. He said several

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Speaker 2: times the fund is dead, but Republican Senator John Cornyn,

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Speaker 2: who's a key vote, pinned him down, and Blanche admitted

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Speaker 2: that the settlement agreement is a contract and it could

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Speaker 2: conceivably be resurrected.

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Speaker 4: That leads me to believe that the President is not

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Speaker 4: comfortable with the Weaponization Fund being dead, because mister Blanche

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Speaker 4: could have gotten himself out of a lot of trouble

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Speaker 4: by agreeing to provide a letter declaring that and he

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Speaker 4: wouldn't do it. And when he was pressed on whether

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Speaker 4: they could sue for breach of contract, he more or

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Speaker 4: less acknowledged that they could and didn't really have much

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Speaker 4: of an answer to that. So I think President Trump

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Speaker 4: has made a firm decision that he wants to help

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Speaker 4: the January sixth rioters, and mister Blanche is trying to

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Speaker 4: avoid saying anything that will burn bridges that he knows

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Speaker 4: he's going to have to cross.

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Speaker 2: A federal judge had asked for a sworn statement from

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Speaker 2: Blanche that the fund was really did and he refused

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Speaker 2: to submit that. His explanation was that there's a long

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Speaker 2: standing precedent that judges can't ask cabinet secretaries or people

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Speaker 2: like me to put in declarations.

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Speaker 4: Is that true, not in the form that he is suggesting. Typically,

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Speaker 4: decisions in administrative agencies are made well below the cabinet member,

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Speaker 4: and it's not appropriate to ask a cabinet member to

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Speaker 4: put in declaration about a decision where they weren't in

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Speaker 4: the room. And very commonly there is someone else who's

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Speaker 4: more important, who was in the room, and you should

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Speaker 4: get the statement from them. But where as here you

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Speaker 4: have the very top officials in the Justice Department signing

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Speaker 4: this thing, it's entirely appropriate to ask why they did

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Speaker 4: it and ask them to explain what appears to be

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Speaker 4: highly unethical conduct. I would just add that we have

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Speaker 4: seen in this administration more examples of papers that are

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Speaker 4: only signed by top officials than I believe we've ever

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Speaker 4: seen before. When I litigated against the Justice Department, you

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Speaker 4: never even saw the Attorney General or the deputy Attorney General,

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Speaker 4: or even usually the assistant Attorney general's name. You would

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Speaker 4: see various names of lower officials typed and then an

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Speaker 4: actual signature by aligne DOJ lawyer. And what we're seeing

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Speaker 4: now again and again is mister Branch, mister Woodward, and

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Speaker 4: mister bow other senior Justice Department official being the only

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Speaker 4: one to sign papers. So who was a judge to

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Speaker 4: ask something from if it is explicitly being handled by

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Speaker 4: the senior lawyers.

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Speaker 2: And on Monday, a Florida federal judge wrote a scathing

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Speaker 2: opinion saying that Blanche shouldn't have been representing Trump in

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Speaker 2: settling his lawsuit against the Internal Revenue Service, that it

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Speaker 2: raised conflict of interest concerns because he was Trump's former

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Speaker 2: defense attorney, and the judge ordered a copy of her

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Speaker 2: decision to be sent to the State Bar of New York,

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Speaker 2: where Blanche is licensed to practice law. When he was

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Speaker 2: confronted with that, Blanche said, well, that's not a referral.

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Speaker 2: But it is in essence a referral, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: That's a referral. I'm quite convinced that New York State

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Speaker 4: Bar can spring for a online search and get a

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Speaker 4: copy of the opinion on their own. The fact that

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Speaker 4: she is sending it to them suggests that she independently

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Speaker 4: believes there's material in there that they ought to see,

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Speaker 4: and given how scathing it is, that's obviously correct.

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Speaker 2: There are also multiple bar complaints filed in New York,

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Speaker 2: one by hundreds of former judges that alleged serious ethical breaches,

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Speaker 2: abuses of power, conflicts of interest, etc. Misconduct during his

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Speaker 2: tenure as acting Attorney General. So those are at the

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Speaker 2: initial stage. Are they important in considering his nomination?

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Speaker 4: The Attorney General is the highest law enforcement official in

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Speaker 4: the country, has many responsibilities to the American people, and

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Speaker 4: certainly one of them is to set a standard for

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Speaker 4: ethical behavior. Now, anyone can file a complaint, and the

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Speaker 4: mere fact that a complaint has been filed should not

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Speaker 4: be pivotal. But the fact that some fairly serious people

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Speaker 4: whose reputations matter and who's value presumably their reputations, have

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Speaker 4: filed complaints should give us cause, and I would think

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Speaker 4: the committee should get to the bottom of them. If

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Speaker 4: mister Blanch has not done anything on fl complaint, shouldn't

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Speaker 4: stand in his way. But there's certainly are reasons to

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Speaker 4: question some things that have happened. I will also note

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Speaker 4: that you made the same slip that mister Blanche did,

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Speaker 4: and you talked about him representing President Trump, and it's

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Speaker 4: a little confusing in that context because both sides are

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Speaker 4: working for President Trump, so if he's involved in the

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Speaker 4: case at all, he's representing President Trump on one way

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Speaker 4: or the other.

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Speaker 2: I stand corrected. I believe it was Democratic Center Sheldon

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Speaker 2: white House who pointed out that the Justice Department filed

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Speaker 2: no pleadings in that Florida case to try to make

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Speaker 2: sure the Department didn't come under the authority of that court.

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Speaker 4: That's something where I was sorry there wasn't more follow

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Speaker 4: up because mister Blanche said they didn't give us a

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Speaker 4: chance to respond. And yet the judge explained very carefully

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Speaker 4: what she was considering, what the issues were, and took

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Speaker 4: a very long time to write her opinion. The Justice

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Speaker 4: Department had a very long time to submit things. As

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Speaker 4: a lawyer, when i have something to say to the court,

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Speaker 4: unless I've been explicitly ordered not to, I file papers.

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Speaker 4: And I've certainly seen the Justice Department filed papers numerous

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Speaker 4: times without being invited to do so. If they felt

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Speaker 4: their behavior was ethical, they had all the time in

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Speaker 4: the world to explain to the judge through a declaration

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Speaker 4: or a brief why that was. And if the Justice

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Speaker 4: Department didn't defend their behavior. I can only conclude that

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Speaker 4: that's because their behavior was not defensible and Democratic.

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Speaker 2: Senator Sheldon Whitehouse grilled Blanche about the current reputation of

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Speaker 2: the Justice Department.

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Speaker 5: Between judges appointed by every president harshly criticizing the department's

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Speaker 5: work in your tenure, grand juries, rejecting indictments, judicial findings

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Speaker 5: of outright misconduct, capable lawyers fleeing the stinking ship. This

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Speaker 5: seems to be the most troubled Department of Justice in history.

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Speaker 2: I've been talking to Georgetown law professor David super David,

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Speaker 2: we've talked before about how federal judges are repeatedly finding

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Speaker 2: fault with the Justice Department and its attorneys. Blanche denied

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Speaker 2: that when he was questioned, but that is true. The

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Speaker 2: Justice Department has lost credibility with a lot of federal judges,

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Speaker 2: and there have been orders that have not been followed,

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Speaker 2: and judges have found a lot of problems. They've found

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Speaker 2: problems with grand jury proceedings. I mean, this Justice Department

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Speaker 2: has I think lost credibility with the judiciary.

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Speaker 4: I think it's unfortunate that this part of the hearing

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Speaker 4: is played so theatrically. I would have loved to see

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Speaker 4: a senator take a list of orders, read from this order,

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Speaker 4: ask mister Blanche, why did your Justice Department do that?

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Speaker 4: Then read from the next order, Why did your Justice

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Speaker 4: Department do that? And show by repeated questions, just how

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Speaker 4: prevalent this is, which is enormous and utterly unprecedented. As

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Speaker 4: someone who is litated against the Justice Department, their lawyers

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Speaker 4: are a total pain in the next But they don't why.

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Speaker 4: They say nasty things, But they don't why, except now

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Speaker 4: they do.

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Speaker 2: Blanche was also pressed on the Justice Department's bungle release

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Speaker 2: of the Epstein files, a process that was beset by problems,

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Speaker 2: including redaction errors that left exposed some nude photos, names,

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Speaker 2: email addresses, an other identifying information of victims. What do

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Speaker 2: you think about Blanche's response to that? He acknowledged that

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Speaker 2: mistakes were made and at one point even apologize to

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Speaker 2: the victims.

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Speaker 4: The questions on Epstein that we've had so far have

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Speaker 4: not been very clever. They've been sometimes bombastic, but not

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Speaker 4: very probing. Even still, even with pretty bad questioning, I

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Speaker 4: was struck by his assertion that he's not allowed to

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Speaker 4: meet with people who have lawyers. The rule is that

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Speaker 4: a lawyer cannot meet with opposing parties who are represented

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Speaker 4: without the permission of the opposing lawyer. But no one

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Speaker 4: is saying that the lawyers for the Epstein victims are

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Speaker 4: unwilling to come to such a meeting or unwilling to

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Speaker 4: allow such a meeting. They've been begging for such a

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Speaker 4: meeting for many, many months. So that was an absurd

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Speaker 4: and not very honest statement. I'm sorry he wasn't pressed

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Speaker 4: on source of this supposed rule, And of course he

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Speaker 4: had no problem meeting with ms Maxwell, who is represented

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Speaker 4: by counsel and an active litigation against DOJ, which the

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Speaker 4: Epstein victims, for the most part, are not, So that

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Speaker 4: was an absurd and dishonest statement. I wish they're being

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Speaker 4: a senator who then better prepared on that.

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Speaker 2: Senator Booker, Democratic Senator Booker from New Jersey did press

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Speaker 2: him on that meeting with Glaine Maxwell, and then suddenly

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Speaker 2: a few days later, she's transferred to a prison camp.

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Speaker 2: Convicted sex offenders are not supposed to be allowed to

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Speaker 2: serve their term in that kind of a prison camp.

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Speaker 1: All of these women have reported their crimes decades ago,

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Speaker 1: but yet you won't meet with them. What you will

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Speaker 1: do is meet with Gleane Maxwell over a year ago.

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Speaker 1: You sat with her, and you publicly said you were

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Speaker 1: seeking the truth. So let's talk about what that two

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Speaker 1: day meeting produced. Interview with miss Maxwell lead to a

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Speaker 1: single additional person being charged, yes or no.

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Speaker 4: No, Senor Booker did get him to state explicitly that

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Speaker 4: he had no involvement in the transfer. I don't particularly

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Speaker 4: believe that. You don't sound like you particularly believe that,

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Speaker 4: But there are lower level people who know the answer

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Speaker 4: to that. And if he lied about that, then he

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Speaker 4: has just opened himself up to a perjury prosecution, and

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Speaker 4: the statute of limitations on that will extend into the

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Speaker 4: next presidential term.

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Speaker 2: He said he didn't discuss clemency with her, He didn't

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Speaker 2: discuss pardons with her.

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Speaker 4: Well, that one I might be willing to believe because

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Speaker 4: the context is so obvious that it probably doesn't need

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Speaker 4: to be discussed. She knows that if she plays along

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Speaker 4: with President Trump's efforts to distance himself from the matter,

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Speaker 4: that something is likely to come along the lines to

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Speaker 4: her later. She probably also knows that promises from Trump

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Speaker 4: officials are not worth the paper they're not written on,

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Speaker 4: So there's no real reason for her to get into that.

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Speaker 4: I probably believe him on that, but I don't think

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Speaker 4: it means very much. The transfer, though, that seems very funny.

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Speaker 4: I wish someone had asked him, how do you think

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Speaker 4: the victims of Jeffrey Epstein feel seeing this person who

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Speaker 4: played such a pivotal role in the destruction of their

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Speaker 4: childhood being treated so well.

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Speaker 2: I question if these hearings really matter. Lately, they seem

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Speaker 2: to be just performative. It seems to be coming down

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Speaker 2: to one Republican Senator, John Cornyan, who said he's not

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Speaker 2: decided yet. It appears that all the Republican senators on

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Speaker 2: the Judiciary Committee at least will fall in line.

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Speaker 4: I think so, and I find that very distressing. There's

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Speaker 4: no question that President Trump will get an attorney general

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Speaker 4: to his liking and an attorney general who will do

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Speaker 4: what he says on a great many things. But to

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Speaker 4: confirm someone as Attorney General who has already been personally

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Speaker 4: involved in so much misconduct seems very unfortunate, and I

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Speaker 4: wish more senators would say you get your person, but

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Speaker 4: not this one.

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Speaker 2: Blench can't afford to lose any Republican votes on the

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Speaker 2: Judiciary Committee. But what about when this goes to the.

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Speaker 4: Floor, he will need to hold all but three Republicans,

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Speaker 4: and I think he can.

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Speaker 2: Do you think Blanch succeeded in sort of keeping the

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Speaker 2: temperature down except when he was questioned by Senator Corey Booker.

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Speaker 4: I was struck with how he kept trying to wriggle

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Speaker 4: out of questions when it would seem that there was

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Speaker 4: a fairly simple way to answer them. Would he agree

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Speaker 4: to meet evasion? Evasion? Evasion? Did ethics approve his dinner

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Speaker 4: with the people whose anti trust investigation he was about

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Speaker 4: to terminate? Evasion? Evasion? Evasion? If he had nothing to hide,

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Speaker 4: why not just say yes to some of these questions?

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Speaker 4: And maybe that comes down to combativeness, but I assume

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Speaker 4: it's because there's more to be said to the story.

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Speaker 2: And what about the questioning by the senators?

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Speaker 4: I do give the Democrats very mixed reviews. They're clearly

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Speaker 4: looking for the sound bites and the film clips. And

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Speaker 4: if you really want to put Blanche in a difficult position,

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Speaker 4: you don't talk over You can talk over him when

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Speaker 4: he's not answering the question, when he changes the subject,

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Speaker 4: but you don't talk over when he's answering the question,

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Speaker 4: and when he evades your question, you ask a follow up.

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Speaker 4: You don't just let that stand. I thought Senator Booker

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Speaker 4: started out well, then he started talking over Blanche. I

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Speaker 4: thought Senator Coons started well and then got too interested

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Speaker 4: in his graphics. I thought Center Bloomenthal scored on some

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Speaker 4: points and let him off easy on some others. I

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Speaker 4: wish that the focus was purely on questions. I'll have

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Speaker 4: time to give speeches later.

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Speaker 2: More to come tomorrow. Thanks so much, David. That's Professor

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Speaker 2: David Super of Georgetown Law. And that's it for this

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Speaker 2: edition of The Bloomberg Law Show. Remember you can always

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Speaker 2: get the latest legal news on our Bloomberg Law podcast.

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Speaker 2: You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at

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Speaker 2: remember to tune into The Bloomberg Law Show every weeknight

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Speaker 2: you're listening to Bloomberg