1
00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,760
Speaker 1: Global business news twenty four hours a day at Bloomberg

2
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,920
Speaker 1: dot com, the Radio plus Mobile Act and on your radio,

3
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:13,400
Speaker 1: this is a Bloomberg Business Flash and I'm Karen Moscow.

4
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,120
Speaker 1: Stocks are moving higher. The SNP five hundred almost two

5
00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,599
Speaker 1: tents per cent, up three points to twenty one twelve,

6
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:21,960
Speaker 1: the down Johnes Industrial Average of three tens per cent

7
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,279
Speaker 1: or sixty points to seventeen thousand, nine eighty two, and

8
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,280
Speaker 1: the NASDAC little change down a point to forty nine

9
00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,400
Speaker 1: sixty seven. Ten year Treasury up eight thirty seconds. The

10
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,320
Speaker 1: YELD one point seven zero percent yield on the two

11
00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,519
Speaker 1: year points seven seven percent. Non make Screwed oil up

12
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,800
Speaker 1: seven tenths per cent or thirty six cents to fifty

13
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,560
Speaker 1: dollar six cents a barrel. Comics gold down three tenths

14
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,800
Speaker 1: per center four dollars ten cents to twelve forty ounce,

15
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,440
Speaker 1: the euro a dollar thirteen fifty six. The end one

16
00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:53,560
Speaker 1: oh seven point four to Ralph Lauren is down seven

17
00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,800
Speaker 1: point at three per cent after forecasting a revenue drop

18
00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 1: this year, renewing worries about the American consumer. Biogen down

19
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,480
Speaker 1: more than ten percent to lead losses in biotechnology companition

20
00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,720
Speaker 1: after an experimental drug for multiple sclerosis, which had held

21
00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,319
Speaker 1: that hope of altering the course of the disease, failed

22
00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,759
Speaker 1: in a mid stage trial, and Value and Pharmaceuticals down

23
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 1: twenty percent to cut its profit forecast. That's a Bloomberg

24
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,360
Speaker 1: business flash, Tom and Mike Karen Mosco, thank you very much.

25
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,639
Speaker 1: Last week, energy ministers from twenty three countries got together

26
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,039
Speaker 1: out in San Francisco to listen to Bloomberg's avalance on

27
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,720
Speaker 1: in the Bay Area. And while they they're there, they

28
00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,959
Speaker 1: also held the seventh annual Clean Energy Ministerial Meeting to

29
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,920
Speaker 1: discuss ways to deploy clean energy at massive scales, which

30
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,120
Speaker 1: is one of the issues out there is there are

31
00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,200
Speaker 1: a lot of clean energy programs, but the kind that

32
00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:51,040
Speaker 1: could power countries alone cities not there yet joining us

33
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,120
Speaker 1: now burn Siam from the Council on Foreign Relations, who

34
00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,640
Speaker 1: follows renewable energy technology and notes that in your view,

35
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,280
Speaker 1: the technology isn't there and they need to go beyond

36
00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,000
Speaker 1: what we already have, the idea of solar panels on

37
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,639
Speaker 1: every roof. Yeah, absolutely, and and and thanks for having

38
00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,480
Speaker 1: me on UM. I think that it's a very positive

39
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,160
Speaker 1: step that this year the Clean Energy Ministerial and its

40
00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,160
Speaker 1: seventh year, had a Mission Innovation Ministerial on the sidelines

41
00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,480
Speaker 1: UM and the outcome from that meeting was that the

42
00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,760
Speaker 1: world's top twenty spenders on energy research and development will

43
00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:33,440
Speaker 1: double their investment to thirty billion dollars by UM. Bill

44
00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,360
Speaker 1: Gates is also leading a parallel Breakthrough Energy Coalition of

45
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,720
Speaker 1: twenty billionaire investors UH to fund early stage clean tech ventures.

46
00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,240
Speaker 1: And so there are some good signs emerging that the

47
00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,880
Speaker 1: focus is shifting to clean energy innovation, because, like you mentioned,

48
00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,560
Speaker 1: we certainly aren't there yet. Um I argued in an

49
00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,560
Speaker 1: essay in Foreign Affairs Magazine with Tara Norris recently that

50
00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,320
Speaker 1: today's technologies simply aren't up to the task of puring

51
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:06,040
Speaker 1: UH an entire global energy infrastructure. UM we need. We

52
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,160
Speaker 1: need batteries that are cheaper and lass ten times longer

53
00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,960
Speaker 1: than what Elon Musk's Tesla has. For example. We need

54
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,720
Speaker 1: solar power as cheap as paint and capable of producing

55
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,079
Speaker 1: clean fuels to replace oil. What is so odd here

56
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,799
Speaker 1: within our debate, and we're again having a debate within

57
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:27,240
Speaker 1: the presidential campaign. Dr Sevraam is to talk to somebody

58
00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,959
Speaker 1: that actually gets the physics. You have a PhD out

59
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,440
Speaker 1: of Oxford and condensed matter of fixed physics, which all

60
00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,080
Speaker 1: you need to know, folks, is the dynamics of going

61
00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:41,120
Speaker 1: from solid to liquid to gas in the various permutations

62
00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,920
Speaker 1: in between. What I always learned from smart guys like

63
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:50,840
Speaker 1: you DR is scale matters. Where's the scale that will

64
00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:55,800
Speaker 1: allow us to win at this whatever our politics. Yeah,

65
00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,440
Speaker 1: it's a great question. UM. Today many of the technologies

66
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,400
Speaker 1: in the labor tory are exciting scientists like me. I

67
00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,360
Speaker 1: worked on one of those technologies. It's called perovskite solar

68
00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,320
Speaker 1: and I can make a fingernail sized solar cell um.

69
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,760
Speaker 1: That is the coolest thing that physicists have seen in

70
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,040
Speaker 1: probably sixty years in the solar field. But we haven't

71
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,479
Speaker 1: scaled it up yet, and until we deploy it in

72
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,880
Speaker 1: a real world condition bigger than a fingernail, no private

73
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,240
Speaker 1: investor is going to invest in that kind of technology. UM.

74
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,880
Speaker 1: That scale up process is sometimes called the valley of

75
00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,960
Speaker 1: death UM, and many Silicon Valley companies experience the valley

76
00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,800
Speaker 1: of death is at three am when Michael mckeemack come

77
00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 1: in the door and look for a cup of coffee

78
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:44,880
Speaker 1: and genuine the valley of death within physics. Yeah, yeah,

79
00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:51,120
Speaker 1: so ahead. So the problem with funding these uh new innovative,

80
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,080
Speaker 1: disruptive clean energy technologies is you've got to do a

81
00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 1: lot of lab science to get your fundamental physics right.

82
00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,640
Speaker 1: You know, we're working on how do we get the

83
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,520
Speaker 1: electrons out of this tiny solar cell? But there's a

84
00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,560
Speaker 1: whole host of different problems that crops up when you've

85
00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,080
Speaker 1: got to increase from building tiny cells to production scale

86
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,680
Speaker 1: factory uh, assembly lines, etcetera. To make a lot of

87
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,200
Speaker 1: these very similar solar panels uh in large quantities, that

88
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,880
Speaker 1: very different set of challenges requires a lot of scale

89
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,760
Speaker 1: up capital. And that's the value of death where private

90
00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,560
Speaker 1: investors aren't willing to invest that kind of money when

91
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 1: they can instead invest in a Facebook that won't require

92
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,400
Speaker 1: as much capital but will return astounding returns. Right. And

93
00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,800
Speaker 1: so the government not only has to help out in

94
00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,159
Speaker 1: basic research and development for clean energy technology, they've also

95
00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,320
Speaker 1: got to help out enbridging this value of death um

96
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,520
Speaker 1: and demonstrating technologies at scale, because like you said, scale

97
00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,160
Speaker 1: is the most important thing here. Well, that would seem

98
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,600
Speaker 1: to put a premium on say this presidential election. I've

99
00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,240
Speaker 1: heard about this fall with h to candidate to have

100
00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:04,279
Speaker 1: opposing views of whether we need this additional clean energy technology? Uh?

101
00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,040
Speaker 1: Do even if Hillary Clinton wins, do you expect government

102
00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,640
Speaker 1: to be able to make that kind of commitment? Yes,

103
00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 1: I I absolutely do. Let me start by saying, I

104
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,719
Speaker 1: think Donald Trump at least gets one thing right, which is,

105
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,159
Speaker 1: you know, he's skeptical that existing technologies can take us

106
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:22,960
Speaker 1: where we need to go, but he has all the

107
00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:24,960
Speaker 1: wrong policy prescriptions on how to get there. I think

108
00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,359
Speaker 1: Secretary Clinton uh does. In fact, she's building a terrific team.

109
00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,480
Speaker 1: Uh and she will, in fact put a commitment behind

110
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,680
Speaker 1: funding innovation, not just innovation in in laboratories, but innovation

111
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,640
Speaker 1: in the private sector, innovation that scales up lab technology.

112
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,240
Speaker 1: We're balanced here. Do you see Mr Trump doing the

113
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,880
Speaker 1: same thing? I absolutely don't. UM. I've got to say

114
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,640
Speaker 1: that Mr Trump, while he may be correct in his

115
00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:55,120
Speaker 1: assessment of where existing technologies are, would prefer to roll

116
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,000
Speaker 1: back the Paris Climate Agreement then invest in further clean

117
00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,800
Speaker 1: energy technology about I mean, it's an interesting debate here

118
00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,600
Speaker 1: between I think of a node COASLA, who, as far

119
00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:10,040
Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, basically invented the popular concept of scalability

120
00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:16,680
Speaker 1: scalability takes courage and investment. What area of climate dynamics

121
00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,160
Speaker 1: are we going to see that scalability? People go, oh,

122
00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,800
Speaker 1: there's a polar bear swimming around because there's no ice.

123
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,760
Speaker 1: I mean, we all get that, But where's the scalability

124
00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,880
Speaker 1: to solve those kind of emotional checks that we see

125
00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:35,760
Speaker 1: every day? You know, the the climate problem, if it's

126
00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:37,240
Speaker 1: going to be solved, and I hope it will be,

127
00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,200
Speaker 1: will be solved through economically compelling solutions, right. I don't

128
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,080
Speaker 1: expect that political will alone in response to this emotional

129
00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,200
Speaker 1: problem of climate change is going to catalyze a wholesale

130
00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,080
Speaker 1: energy transformation. We're already seeing the choice being played out

131
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,480
Speaker 1: in developing countries like India, who say, look, I don't

132
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,560
Speaker 1: want to face a trade off between economic growth and

133
00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,400
Speaker 1: reducing my emissions. I have a right to develop. Well,

134
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,880
Speaker 1: that's why I should. I mean, folks, let me interrupt.

135
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,000
Speaker 1: This is important. This is one of the hearts of

136
00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,360
Speaker 1: Mackenzie's approach, because you've got to win economically as well.

137
00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 1: Continued doctor. Please, absolutely, so, that's why I advocate investing

138
00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,280
Speaker 1: in disruptive technologies that make it so economically compelling. You

139
00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 1: can't do anything else. So, for example, UH, last week,

140
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,160
Speaker 1: I advised the Department of Energy to set a cost

141
00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,400
Speaker 1: target for solar that's less than it is today. Now,

142
00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,480
Speaker 1: today solar is almost competitive with fossil fuels. But if

143
00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,480
Speaker 1: it's less costly than it is today, there will literally

144
00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,680
Speaker 1: be no economical reason not to build out a massive

145
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,120
Speaker 1: solar infrastructure, despite the fact, for example, that solar is

146
00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,960
Speaker 1: unpredictable and intermittent. Well, I can think of one reason,

147
00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,200
Speaker 1: um that got Hillary Clinton into a lot of trouble

148
00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,440
Speaker 1: during the presidential primaries, and that was when she went

149
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,040
Speaker 1: to West Virginia and said, We're gonna get rid of

150
00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,480
Speaker 1: all these cold jobs. Suppose you develop these technologies, what

151
00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,480
Speaker 1: happens to the people employed in the old technologies? You know,

152
00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,240
Speaker 1: there are absolutely going to be transitions. And the important thing,

153
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,520
Speaker 1: and what Secretary Clinton has absolutely recognized is that transitions

154
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,840
Speaker 1: need to be just that. You know, there may need

155
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:13,360
Speaker 1: to be transition assistance for communities, UH that have economic

156
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,520
Speaker 1: displacement because of the shift to clean energy. But I

157
00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:21,360
Speaker 1: think that the returns from investing in innovation generate enough

158
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 1: economic surplus, especially if this is the country that it

159
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,079
Speaker 1: states driving innovation around the world, that you can then

160
00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:33,480
Speaker 1: compensate folks who are unfortunately victims of economic displacement and transitions.

161
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,920
Speaker 1: Dr thank you so much. Varn Severn is Dylan fellow

162
00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 1: at the Council on Foreign Relations looking at really some

163
00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,160
Speaker 1: of the great great challenges of It's easy to talk about, Mike,

164
00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,360
Speaker 1: it's easy to talk about climate changes and nothing to

165
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,640
Speaker 1: do something about it. It has scale and impact. So

166
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,920
Speaker 1: we might point out that on climate change, Michael Bloomberg

167
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:03,320
Speaker 1: has been out front on particularly having cities find a solution.

168
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,560
Speaker 1: Mr Bloomberg is majority owner of Bloomberg LP and of

169
00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,720
Speaker 1: course owner of this radio station as well. I think

170
00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:14,160
Speaker 1: we have to acclaimed that, Mike yes, to be proper

171
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,280
Speaker 1: about it. Mike, an interesting day. I sort of enjoyed

172
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,200
Speaker 1: that we didn't do much Central Bank today. It was

173
00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,120
Speaker 1: just like a nice relief in the derby. Now we

174
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,439
Speaker 1: know it, you're not gonna happen. What did you learned quickly,

175
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,560
Speaker 1: Dennis Lockard? I thought that was brilliant yesterday He's way underrated.

176
00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,800
Speaker 1: What did you learn from the economists from Stanford yesterday?

177
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,880
Speaker 1: Basically that the Fed is is data dependent, But that's

178
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,000
Speaker 1: a hard concept to get across to the markets, and

179
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,319
Speaker 1: they know that, um, they're they're looking forward more than

180
00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,520
Speaker 1: necessarily backwards at a lot of numbers, and they will

181
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,280
Speaker 1: see those numbers before June fift will try to bring

182
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,400
Speaker 1: you perspective on that, and then certainly before July, the

183
00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,840
Speaker 1: later July UH meeting yields come in. I want to

184
00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 1: point out the German tenure yield uh point zero that's

185
00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,920
Speaker 1: really on my watch right now. Lower yields this morning.

186
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:11,839
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg's surveillance