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Speaker 1: Also media, welcome back for Behind two four from with

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Speaker 1: Behind the Bastard. It's a podcast. You know what, it's

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Speaker 1: about bad people. We tell you all about them. I'm

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Speaker 1: Robert Evans, and back once again on the show is

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Speaker 1: Arch guest Ace guest Katie Stall. How are you doing, Katie?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Wonderful, bad, fine, I don't know, pick a word.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing it all at once. It's just really hard

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Speaker 2: to understand my emotions these days. But I'm here and

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to be here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm generally like terrible. Okay, that's that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the way I feel.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm bad, but there's a lot of people

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Speaker 2: that are getting it a lot worse, So I'm fine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. Bad, other people are worse. Everything's good,

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Speaker 1: umh or bad. I don't know how everything is.

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Speaker 2: I think so dumb, dumb, dumb, the dumb dumb.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we used to have we used to have that

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Speaker 1: as a as a theme song, and then things got

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Speaker 1: even dumber. You know what. I love it when people say, boy,

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Speaker 1: you should still be doing your podcast because the years

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Speaker 1: just get worse. But obviously, ever since Senator Sanders uh

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Speaker 1: uh came after us, you know, there's there's we simply

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Speaker 1: can't anymore.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's too much liability.

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Speaker 1: Too much liability after that massive, massive lawsuit.

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Speaker 2: Well that's what happens. I guess when you out someone

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Speaker 2: is killing JFK before the files are released.

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Speaker 1: That's that's right. Obviously the files that just got released,

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Speaker 1: look them up, completely vindicate us.

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Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, but it's unfair.

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Speaker 1: It's unfair. You all lost a podcast, and Katie and

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Speaker 1: I both lost out on purchasing are our yachts, So

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Speaker 1: that's that's a bummer. I mean, exact replica of the

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Speaker 1: boat from Jaws.

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Speaker 2: But like a miniature version.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, very small, very small, like the Lego size one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and dream though someday, Robert, Robert, why did you

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Speaker 2: not warn me about the images I'm going to have

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Speaker 2: to show Katie in this podcast?

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Speaker 3: I just scrolled and it's.

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Speaker 2: Warned me.

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Speaker 1: So we don't. We don't do stuff like that because

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Speaker 1: then you wouldn't be surprised. And that's part of me

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Speaker 1: enjoying the podcast that we do. I had to watch

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Speaker 1: like fucking so many hours of this of motherfucking online

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Speaker 1: documentaries about this guy because all of his stuff has

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Speaker 1: been pulled off the Internet, Katie, we're doing a cult

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Speaker 1: leader today. We're doing We're doing a new cult leader.

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Speaker 1: We're like, I mean, this guy's a little older than me.

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Speaker 1: But the cult is very much like gen Z. Like

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Speaker 1: it's a very modern, like social media driven cult and

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Speaker 1: it's kind of one of the most you know, there's

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Speaker 1: that document about those Twin Flames people that was a

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Speaker 1: very like modern online cult. But this guy is, like,

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Speaker 1: this is a Facebook and Instagram cult leader that we're

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Speaker 1: talking about today. That's how he builds everything.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the new school cult leader. I like it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because like back in the day, we've

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Speaker 1: always had cults, but we used to have a lot

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Speaker 1: fewer because it was harder, Like two three thousand years ago,

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Speaker 1: if you wanted to start a cult, you had to

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Speaker 1: just sit down and talk to a bunch of people

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Speaker 1: and convince them of shit, and like, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: if you got really good, a couple of your followers

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Speaker 1: would be good at talking and you can get them

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Speaker 1: to travel around and like talk, but.

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Speaker 2: That you delegate that part, yeah, and that's hard, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, and it's slow, and usually you get killed by

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Speaker 1: the Romans before all of that works its way out, right,

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Speaker 1: which is why Jesus was never able to buy the

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Speaker 1: Green Bay Packers, which if you've read the Bible properly

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Speaker 1: you'll understand was his ultimate goal. Yeah, as it is mine,

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Speaker 1: I'd be a good owner for the Packers.

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Speaker 2: Katie Robert, Are you the second coming of Jesus?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: And I'm the second coming of whatever guy was good

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Speaker 1: at coaching the Packers.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I couldn't speak to that. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I just like the hats. I don't know much about

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Speaker 1: the team anyway. As time has gone on, cult leaders

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Speaker 1: have always been on the bleeding edge of technology, right,

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Speaker 1: because the key thing in terms of making it possible

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Speaker 1: for cult leaders to spread more effectively and for there

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Speaker 1: to be more cults is that there are more ways

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Speaker 1: with low barriers, for people to reach large numbers of

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Speaker 1: other human beings. You know, thousands of years ago, you

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Speaker 1: had to like get an elite following and hope some

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Speaker 1: of those guys would be really good at talking and

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Speaker 1: really loyal and would go spread the message, right, And

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Speaker 1: that's just fucking difficult. Then, you know, if you want

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Speaker 1: to look at it this way, I think this is

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Speaker 1: the right way to look at it. Cults are a

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Speaker 1: lot like pornography, and that they're always on the bleeding

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Speaker 1: edge of technology because that's the only way they can

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Speaker 1: stay profitable. Right, Like, porn will always adopt the new

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Speaker 1: technology that's going to be kind of the future before

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Speaker 1: like mainstream Hollywood, right, because Hollywood's got they've got margins,

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Speaker 1: you know that, which is why you see you know,

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Speaker 1: three hundred or million dollar movies every year that flop

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Speaker 1: and the industry doesn't quite go under because like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have the ability to take some gambles here.

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Speaker 1: Porn can't afford to gamble like that, right, So they

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Speaker 1: really have to be to be.

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Speaker 2: True, you've got to be adaptable in the porn industry absolutely,

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Speaker 2: you know, Robert, I've heard you share a lot of

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Speaker 2: hot takes, but this might be my favorite one. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: just comparison between cults in the porn industry.

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Speaker 1: Yes, edge of technology, always on the edge of technology, right.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, colts, the printing press huge for cults, right.

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Speaker 1: Colts immediately re figured out how to like, oh, we

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Speaker 1: can now just put out our writing material or reading

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Speaker 1: material however the fuck we want. Right, and then you

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Speaker 1: get you know, you get your Mormon churches and stuff,

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Speaker 1: like that, and part as a result of the fact

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Speaker 1: that it's a lot easier to print stuff. Now, the

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Speaker 1: radio makes it a lot easier to spread stuff. And

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Speaker 1: obviously television, boy howdy, that really super charges things, you know,

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Speaker 1: And then you start getting all these I mean, among

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Speaker 1: other things like the prosperity Gospel, these different sort of

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Speaker 1: like quote unquote Christian churches that are all about if

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Speaker 1: you give me money to buy a jet, God will

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Speaker 1: make your wildest dreams come true. You can't do that.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't work very well through like a magazine, right, Oh.

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Speaker 2: Definitely not. You're not getting the same kind of return

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Speaker 2: on investment there.

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Speaker 1: It's the same thing with like if you have if

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Speaker 1: you have a creator that you listen to way too much,

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Speaker 1: that person will probably be have an unfair influence on

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Speaker 1: you because they're in your ears one hundred hours a week, right,

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Speaker 1: And if you're attending one of these like big cult

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Speaker 1: churches and doing it two or three times a week,

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Speaker 1: and they're constantly talking about how you need to give

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Speaker 1: the money to go to heaven, you'll probably do it. Right.

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Speaker 2: I'm easily manipulated.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we all are. Actually, is the real answer

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Speaker 1: behind why do people do the things that they do. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're kind of stupid and it's easy to fuck with us.

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Speaker 2: You're selling me a dream.

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Speaker 1: I want that dreamy. Look, we've all bought steaks from

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Speaker 1: some guy's car at a certain point in our lives,

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Speaker 1: right among us? Who among us? If you were ever

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Speaker 1: dumb enough to buy a frozen steak or speakers from

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Speaker 1: a guy's car, you are dumb enough to have fallen

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Speaker 1: for something at some point, right, especially, we need better education. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know you're kind of getting to where we

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Speaker 1: are now, which is like, yeah, the printing, plays, the radio, TV,

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Speaker 1: all of that increase the reach different cults and cult

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Speaker 1: leaders could have. But the Internet and most particularly social media,

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Speaker 1: that has really given these people unprecedented power. And it's

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Speaker 1: why we now live in a day and age where

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Speaker 1: they basically run a lot of stuff, right, if not

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Speaker 1: everything right. Everything's kind of a cult these days because

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Speaker 1: cults work among other things, like there's this talk right

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Speaker 1: now about the tariffs, people being like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: finally his his base is going to leave him because

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Speaker 1: of the tariffs, And I'm like, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you guys have read about like the different cults where

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Speaker 1: a guy would tell everyone the world's ending on this day,

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Speaker 1: and then it wouldn't, And then, still with a big

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Speaker 1: chunk of the loyal core of the of the colt

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Speaker 1: would be like, I guess we'll wait around for the

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Speaker 1: next one. I don't know what else to do with

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Speaker 1: my life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're in too deep at this point.

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Speaker 3: They still put out.

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Speaker 2: That's the way it always, even when you know they've

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Speaker 2: been starving, they can't afford, they still collapsed.

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Speaker 3: They still put out clothes for l Ron Hubbard.

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Speaker 1: Well, and they should because he's coming back. We all

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Speaker 1: know that, Sophie. I've been saying, no, not l R.

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Speaker 1: I can, and he would. He would have loved TikTok.

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Speaker 1: That man would have been the best at TikTok. He

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Speaker 1: would would have had such a good TikTok.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, we've all missed out. That could have been a

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Speaker 2: beautiful thing.

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Speaker 1: Forevery that's really the great like what if of history?

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, screw these people, Like what if it literally

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Speaker 1: been killed?

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Speaker 4: Now?

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Speaker 1: What if l Ron Hubbard had access to TikTok and

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Speaker 1: a billion people?

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Speaker 2: I think he would have bought TikTok.

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Speaker 1: I think he would have bought TikTok yeah, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: what a time. What if LRH had had TikTok and

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Speaker 1: no zembic, nothing would have stopped it. So the Internet

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Speaker 1: and most particularly social media, has presented these would be

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Speaker 1: cult leaders of our day with a tool of unprecedented power.

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Speaker 1: The power if we talked about back in the day

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Speaker 1: stochastic terrorism, right, which is trying to incite just random,

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Speaker 1: large groups of people in the hope that some amount

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Speaker 1: of them actually carry out attacks. Well, Stochastic messaging for

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Speaker 1: cult leaders means that even if a cult leader of

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Speaker 1: middling charisma and skill can get a platform that reaches

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Speaker 1: thousands or hundreds of thousands, or you know, millions or

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Speaker 1: more people, the vast majority of those people in any

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Speaker 1: case aren't going to actually do more than watch or

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Speaker 1: read him. But if a percent of a percentas that's

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Speaker 1: more than enough to build the kind of following that

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Speaker 1: can take care of you. Right.

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Speaker 2: Sure, it's just.

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Speaker 1: A numbers game. Now, this week, we're going to tell

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Speaker 1: the story of a cult leader who got his start

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Speaker 1: dozens of followers and hundreds of thousands of dollars, all

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Speaker 1: thanks to Facebook and Instagram. Our subject for this week

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Speaker 1: is interesting part because he's not very talented, like as

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Speaker 1: a cult leader like LRH we joke about, but a

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Speaker 1: Hubbard was really good at some things. And that's part

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Speaker 1: of what makes his story really fun, is that, like

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Speaker 1: you are watching a man who knows his business fuck

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Speaker 1: up the world. Right. This guy is not very good

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Speaker 1: at anything. I don't think he's particularly bright, and I

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Speaker 1: don't think he would have succeeded at creating a cult

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Speaker 1: in any other period. This is a tale of a

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Speaker 1: cult made possible by social media. And if your ambition

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Speaker 1: is to start a cult of your own, I think

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Speaker 1: these episodes would be a pretty good guy on how

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Speaker 1: to do that, and you should do that. Go start

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Speaker 1: a cult, right, there's consequences. These episodes do end with

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Speaker 1: consequences for this guy, but most of the time it doesn't.

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Speaker 2: You know, hopefully we can learn from his mistakes and

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Speaker 2: how to do it more successfully.

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Speaker 1: Learn from his mistakes, and remember your goal should be

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Speaker 1: the presidency, not an isolated compound where you have many,

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Speaker 1: many sister wives. One of those ends better than the

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Speaker 1: other historically. We'll see, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see.

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Speaker 1: Still a lot of time from planning sister wife to

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Speaker 1: be proven of the wisest yeah, that's right, all right.

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Speaker 1: So our bastard for this week is a guy named

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Speaker 1: Alisio Bishop. He was born in Harlem, New York, in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two. Probably, like most cult leaders, he lies

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Speaker 1: constantly and a hard details about his early life are

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Speaker 1: thin on the ground. The best and most expansive piece

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Speaker 1: of traditional journalism about the man is an article Rolling

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Speaker 1: Stone published earlier this year. Here's how it describes his

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Speaker 1: earliest years. Bishop was born in Harlem in nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: two and said that he was a crack baby. The

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Speaker 1: story of his upbringing, he lays out in his social

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Speaker 1: media is his troubled efforts to get in touch with

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Speaker 1: family members were unsuccessful.

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Speaker 2: Now this is to fact check it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, to be like, is any of this true? Right?

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Speaker 1: Rolling Stone is like, we tried and we couldn't talk

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Speaker 1: to them. I do like this article and I respect

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Speaker 1: it for providing like reasonably good context on a guy

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Speaker 1: who's had basically nothing written about him beyond a few

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Speaker 1: short news articles. And those are those are all focused on,

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Speaker 1: like you know, there's there's a couple of specific crimes

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Speaker 1: that he's involved in, and so they're all very much

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Speaker 1: like focused on those points in time. The Rolling Stone

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Speaker 1: article covers those points, but it also it tries to

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Speaker 1: give a more detailed account of Bishop's life, and as

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Speaker 1: a result, it's, you know, one of our better sources.

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Speaker 1: But I will say it still gets some stuff wrong,

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Speaker 1: you know, and particularly the paragraph that I just read,

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Speaker 1: I think is an example of some kind of why

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Speaker 1: we can't use that as our primary source. And so

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Speaker 1: the best source I found on this guy, weirdly enough,

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Speaker 1: is a YouTube channel called a Hood Horrors, which has

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Speaker 1: a little more than four thousand subscribers. This is not

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Speaker 1: a big channel. It seems to focus primarily on shady

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Speaker 1: characters from what's called the conscious community or Black consciousness community,

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Speaker 1: which is a subculture online that we'll discuss a bit later.

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Speaker 1: And Hudharror has did a seventeen part series on Elijio

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Speaker 1: or Alligio that is very fairly well edited and written

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Speaker 1: and includes original interviews as well as extensive documentation of

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Speaker 1: hundreds of hours of videos posted by his cult that

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Speaker 1: have now been deleted. So it's the only place to

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Speaker 1: get at least glimpses of a lot of the first

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Speaker 1: hand sources on this stuff. And they I think they're

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Speaker 1: coming at him from a more sympathetic angle than I am,

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Speaker 1: because he's kind of a shady member of the broader

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Speaker 1: community they're a part of. But they do a really

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Speaker 1: good job of, I think, giving you details on his life,

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Speaker 1: and it's I got to say no shade on Rolling

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Speaker 1: Stone because their article was useful too, but it's the

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Speaker 1: best single source on this guy. And they play audio

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Speaker 1: of Algio talking where he claims that he was born

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Speaker 1: addicted to heroin as opposed to crack, which is what

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Speaker 1: the Rolling Stone claimed. I don't know whether he was

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Speaker 1: born addicted to heroin, her crack or both. It's not impossible.

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Speaker 1: Both are basically true, and they're both bad.

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Speaker 2: Let's be real, it sucks to be born addicted to anything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because then you don't get all the fun of

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Speaker 1: starting to do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeahragedy here, and then if your tolerance is already high

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Speaker 2: as a baby.

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Speaker 1: Where it's going to be so expensive by the time

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Speaker 1: you're thirty, Jesus.

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Speaker 2: Sure surely the parents just think about the fact that

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Speaker 2: his life, he's going to always be trying to chase

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Speaker 2: a bigger high. It's how he got here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is essentially this story here. So we've got

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Speaker 1: one picture of his mom and dad. I don't even

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Speaker 1: have his father's name, but as you can see from

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Speaker 1: the photo, he was a lot older than her, Like

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Speaker 1: there is a there's a sizeable age in between these

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Speaker 1: two people. And he dies of a heart attack right

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Speaker 1: after Bishop is born. Sure, he looks like he's right

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Speaker 1: on the customs. He looks like he's right on the edge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now, so after he dies, Patricia and her kids live

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Speaker 1: in government housing, and one of Bishop's older sisters, who's

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Speaker 1: about seven years old at this time, said this about

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Speaker 1: her recollections of their childhood. It wasn't all good memories,

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Speaker 1: but it was a lot of good memories there. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, he has kind of a weird situation with

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Speaker 1: his dad. Money's not super you know, common for them,

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Speaker 1: but they have a pretty loving household, at least acclording

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Speaker 1: to several of his siblings now. And this is where

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Speaker 1: part of why I think Aligio is able to identify

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Speaker 1: with gen Z. Like gen Z, he comes into the

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Speaker 1: world too late to have any recollections of the good times,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like there's a period of time in which

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Speaker 1: his parents are doing well and he misses that entirely.

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Speaker 1: A few months before his second birthday, CPS takes him

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Speaker 1: and his siblings away from their mother. She had been

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Speaker 1: a user of hard drugs for quite a while, and

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Speaker 1: her use had escalated to the point where friends of

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Speaker 1: the family had called the government about it. They were like,

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Speaker 1: she can't be alone with those kids, right, and she

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Speaker 1: overdoses fatally. Months after this, one of Alicio's later sisters

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Speaker 1: older sisters, later said she was street and that's why

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Speaker 1: she died so young. She died at thirty three. You

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Speaker 1: can't be doing nothing but the street if you died

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Speaker 1: at thirty three. So that's what the family says about

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Speaker 1: this kid's mom. It is kind of worth noting that

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Speaker 1: that's the account that he gives in late videos years later,

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Speaker 1: or that the account that a member of his family

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Speaker 1: gives and videos posted years later. He will claim to

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Speaker 1: have no memory whatsoever of either of his parents, although

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Speaker 1: there's some allegations that this is basically a defense mechanism

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Speaker 1: right stop himself from feeling what happened to them. As

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Speaker 1: much so makes sense. He and his siblings all become

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Speaker 1: wards of the state after this. He separated from all

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Speaker 1: of his sisters, but he and his younger brother Leo

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Speaker 1: get to stay together for a while. They bounce from

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Speaker 1: foster home to foster home, but they are repeatedly kicked

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Speaker 1: out of each for fighting. So they get found by

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00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,439
Speaker 1: foster at foster homes. He and his younger brother are

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Speaker 1: taken in and then they'll just beat the shed out

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Speaker 1: of each other and get kicked out. Which, first off,

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Speaker 1: if you're a fat foster family taken in two young brothers,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna beat each other up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like you got to take less issue with than

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Speaker 2: if you're assaulting the foster parents or something.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you're little boys. They're two little boys. They're

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Speaker 1: going to fight. So this is enough of a problem

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Speaker 1: though that when Bishop is seven, the state finally separates

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Speaker 1: him from his brother and he gets sent to a

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Speaker 1: foster house in Queens that's run by a couple Mister

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Speaker 1: and Missus Pope and his younger brother Leo isn't there now.

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Speaker 1: He will later claim that he was sexually abused while

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Speaker 1: in this foster home. He alleges that he was molested

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Speaker 1: and forced to engage in sexual behavior with other foster

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Speaker 1: kids while mister Pope took pictures of them. Statistically, this

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Speaker 1: is not unheard of. An estimated forty percent of foster

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Speaker 1: kids endure some sort of abuse during their time in

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Speaker 1: the system, and at least forty five percent of foster

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Speaker 1: kids are sexually abused while in the system, a rate

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Speaker 1: that raises significantly above the background level. And Bishop isn't

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Speaker 1: the only witness here, but I don't see a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of game gain for him to have light of

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Speaker 1: us about this, right which, and the way this usually

364
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 1: comes up is he's being interviewed on his own backstory

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Speaker 1: for podcasts and you two streams by other creators within

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Speaker 1: this consciousness subculture, and he'll talk a lot about his

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Speaker 1: dad mentally and sexually abusing him. He claims that as

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Speaker 1: a result of the abuse, he began acting out, humping

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Speaker 1: both boys and girls in school with his clothes on.

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Speaker 1: At another point, he claims to have let a dog

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Speaker 1: lick his penis, saying I don't regret it either, which

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Speaker 1: is you know, I mean, first off, you know got

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Speaker 1: to tell people that story, man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you can.

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Speaker 1: You can take that bad boy to the grave.

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Speaker 2: Which, uh, there's plenty of things that don't need to

377
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,320
Speaker 2: be shared. First, Yeah, you're shock or what have you.

378
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Speaker 2: But that's a thing he said.

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Speaker 1: Okay, kids do a lot of weird things. And I

380
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,639
Speaker 1: try to be like, yeah, I mean, you know a

381
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Speaker 1: lot of kids do weird shit, but like you don't

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Speaker 1: need to tell anyone that that didn't need.

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Speaker 2: The keeness. I don't know if that is something boys do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, boys do stuff, but not

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Speaker 1: that I'm gonna well, I'm gonna say, obviously, he's not

386
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Speaker 1: the first boy to do that, right, Like that's a

387
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,800
Speaker 1: that's a specific joke about like kids putting peanut butter

388
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: on their junk. Sure, but it's also it's not common.

389
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Speaker 1: You know, of all of all of the weird, fucked

390
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Speaker 1: up things I knew other young dudes to do with

391
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Speaker 1: their junk, none of them did that because it's it's

392
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Speaker 1: a little weird, a little weird.

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Speaker 2: I you know, a little boy, Okay, there's gonna be

394
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:51,439
Speaker 2: plenty of things in this.

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Speaker 1: He's a little boy, he's not he can't be blamed

396
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 1: for it, right, like a small boy just like experimenting

397
00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 1: in a way that's weird, Like you should you should

398
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 1: you need to talk to him, be like, hey, that's

399
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 1: not something you can do. That's not something you could

400
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 1: do to a dog, and it's not something you should

401
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 1: be doing. To yourself.

402
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 2: There's some guidance needed.

403
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 1: But guidance this is necessary. But yes, if we were to.

404
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,400
Speaker 2: Believe the story that he's laid out from his life,

405
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Speaker 2: I will acknowledge that this is a very traumatic start.

406
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 2: Not a lot of good guidance for this guidance.

407
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know again, it's this, it's this situation

408
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,840
Speaker 1: where a lot he frames this as a result of

409
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 1: and reaction to the abuse he's experiencing from mister Pope, right, Yeah,

410
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 1: And after some period of time he works up the

411
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Speaker 1: courage to report mister Pope to a social worker and

412
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Speaker 1: to the foster system's credit, which I won't say often here,

413
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 1: he gets sent to live with someone else very quickly.

414
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 1: Right now. The next family he's sent to is a

415
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Speaker 1: foster family in the Bronx who had also adopted his

416
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Speaker 1: younger brother Leo. And yeah, so first off, the brothers

417
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 1: are back again. That seems good. These people are stable,

418
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Speaker 1: they live in the suburbs, they've got a large house,

419
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,639
Speaker 1: and they have at least an upper middle class amount

420
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: of money. And so he's pretty happy there at first, right,

421
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,440
Speaker 1: he describes later it was beautiful nature out there and

422
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 1: things are looking up right, Maybe We've got our little

423
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 1: orphanane story coming together. You know, the suns come up,

424
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 1: it's tomorrow. Except for no, it is not, as Bishop

425
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 1: and Leo would both complain, It's still like this house.

426
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Speaker 1: With these people who had access to, you know, a

427
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: lot more resources, they still weren't very nice or nurturing

428
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 1: per Algio. They wouldn't let me use a washing machine.

429
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 1: We had to wash clothes by hand. He couldn't let

430
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: me have my tight my lights in my room, like

431
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: there was no light in my room. It was just

432
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 1: a dresser in darkness. He has stated another videos that

433
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 1: one of his new foster parents told him it was

434
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: because I was dark skinned, I was dirty. Ooh yeah, whooo.

435
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 2: Okay. I don't love any of that.

436
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,400
Speaker 1: Don't love any of that now. In the interviews published

437
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: by Hood Horrors, Leo has claimed that around this time

438
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: he and his brother were both diagnosed with learning disorders,

439
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: including add Bishop claims that he was put on Riddlin,

440
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: and Leo states that both brothers were moved to special

441
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: led because of all this. Where stories diverge is that

442
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: Aligia is later going to claim that this is all

443
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 1: the result of a con done by his foster mother

444
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,679
Speaker 1: to get additional checks from the government for taking in

445
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 1: two disabled boys. I don't think this is true. Foster

446
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: parents do get a stipend that can increase if their

447
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: kid has higher cost due to a disability, and these

448
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: stipends cap out at a fairly low level. Although as

449
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: raids vary from state to state, it's hard for me

450
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 1: to say exactly how it goes. The general consensus online

451
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: seems to be that there are no real stipends that

452
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: will defray the cost in a super massive way. Yeah,

453
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: it's just not going to happen. Speaking of things that

454
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: aren't going to happen, me miss out on these products

455
00:22:52,800 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: and services. Oh, we're back, so well, we're talking about

456
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: how you know. Our boy here, Alicio Bishop, has been

457
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: taken to He's had a rough upbringing, right, His parents

458
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: are both dead. He's been moved to one foster home

459
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: where he was sexually abused, and then he's been finally

460
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 1: moved to another, which is a step up. It's with

461
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: his brother, right. These people live in the suburbs in

462
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: a large house. They've got some amount of money, and

463
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: he's happy at first, recalling at a later interview it

464
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: was beautiful nature out there, which I guess if you

465
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: grew up in you know, central New York City, the

466
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: suburbs qualify as nature.

467
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,360
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, it's more nature.

468
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: It is a lot more nature. There's some trees out there, right.

469
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

470
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 1: However, as both he and his brother would later complain,

471
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: it still wasn't what you'd call a nice or nurturing environment,

472
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: per Aligio. They wouldn't let us use a washing machine.

473
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,959
Speaker 1: We had to wash clothes by hand. He wouldn't let

474
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,679
Speaker 1: me have lights in my room. Like, there was no

475
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: light in my room. It was just a dresser and darkness.

476
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: Bishop has stated in other videos than one of his

477
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: new foster parents told him this was because I was

478
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: dark skinned, I was dirty, and I don't know. Yeah,

479
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's to and you know this is

480
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: not like Again, He's not the only person who's expressed

481
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: things like this about his upbringing. You know, you can

482
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: find stories like this a lot, not just connected to

483
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 1: the foster system, but connected to the foster system, which

484
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,239
Speaker 1: has a lot of issues with it.

485
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

486
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: In interviews published by Hoodhorrors, Leo, his brother, has claimed

487
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: that around this time they were both diagnosed with learning disabilities,

488
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: including add aligio. Claims that he was put on Riddlin

489
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: and Leo states that both brothers were moved to Special ED.

490
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: Because of all of this, that all seems pretty cut

491
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: and dry. Where stories diverge is that Aligio, who's again

492
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: our subject this week the guy becomes a cult leader,

493
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: later claims that the add diagnosis and being moved to

494
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: Special ED is the result of a cohn by his

495
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: foster mother to get added checks from the government for

496
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: taking them two disabled boys. From what I have been

497
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 1: able to read, this seems unlikely. There are stipends that

498
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: you get for having a kid with a disability as

499
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: a foster parent, but from what everything people say online,

500
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: these stipends cap out at a fairly low level, and

501
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 1: although rates do vary from state to state, the general

502
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: consensus online seems to be that the best these stipends

503
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: do is somewhat mitigate the cost of taking in a

504
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: child who needs extensive medical care. And it's worth noting

505
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: the things that these boys are being claimed of as

506
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: having aren't the things that get you the highest dollar.

507
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: It's just add right, he does, That's not that's it.

508
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: We're talking not a disability, I you know, maybe a

509
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 2: learning disability.

510
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: It's a learning disability. Sure, yeah, but it's it's not

511
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: that it's not a it's that when you're talking about

512
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: like the higher amounts of money that you can get

513
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: as a stipend, it is for something like your kid

514
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 1: needs constant life saving medical care, a wheelcare on their own,

515
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: and even then it's not much more right, it doesn't

516
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 1: cover the cost of their actual health care. So it's

517
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: the idea that, like his age, especially since if you

518
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: watch enough videos with this guy, I'm not surprised he's

519
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: got ADD or you know, ADHD probably now is what

520
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 1: he'd get diagnosed with.

521
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 2: I'll just say I have AD.

522
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: It's not uncommon. Yeah, I don't. There's a lot about

523
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: his background that I don't feel any need to question

524
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: because it happens to a lot of kids. I don't

525
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: think he's being accurate about this conspiracy around him being.

526
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 2: Given mind of this early nineties maybe exactly, but you

527
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: like an early two thousand development.

528
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: Based on my memory of the late nineties, more of

529
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: the people my friends and family members were on riddling

530
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: than weren't. So again, the idea that this had to

531
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: be a conspiracy, I'm just not buying, right, Like it's

532
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: just not super rare for kids to have been on riddling.

533
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: Back then, right, right, So I anyway, but this is

534
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 2: a story.

535
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: This is he's not going to at least he's going.

536
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 2: To claim Yeah, well I will, but I'm a wait

537
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 2: to see it.

538
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: Our job, his brother doesn't make. His brother's just like

539
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: yeah we had add you know.

540
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 2: Yeah what I'm not sure yet because we're going to

541
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 2: see where this is building. All of this is valid, horrifying,

542
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: and this stuff happens. And I don't know how much

543
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 2: this cult leader is milking or not milking, but you know,

544
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: leaning into something for the story of his personality.

545
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: And that's where you have to go. I try to

546
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: when trying to determine how reliable different claims he makes are,

547
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: I have to go to the evidence. Right, about forty

548
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 1: percent of kids in foster care will be will experience

549
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: some kinds of abuse, right, So the fact that he

550
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: claims he was abused in foster care, I don't feel

551
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: what he needed to be like, well, I don't know.

552
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: Right that said, I found a lot of reporting on

553
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: how inadequate the support supplemental income is for foster parents

554
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: with disabled kids, and this all does vary from state

555
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: to state. But like one article I found via stat

556
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: News quotes a foster mother in Missouri who says it

557
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 1: is about it being these payments is about a third

558
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: of what is actually spent out of pocket on taking

559
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: care of a child.

560
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 5: Right.

561
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 1: So again, I just don't see the evidence that this

562
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 1: is a particularly likely scam. No, you don't get rich

563
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: taking and disabled foster kids. Really, there are some weird

564
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: scamsally here about people get in a bunch of kids

565
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: and in fact to make them work for him, which

566
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: we will talk about in the second. But yeah, so

567
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: and again I'm not saying like this key these kids

568
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: didn't both experience abuse, Like, given the number of families

569
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: they passed through, it would be almost impossible for them

570
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: not to have experienced He did a number of abuse.

571
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: I give the amount of abuse.

572
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: Right exactly, and just the fact even outside of that

573
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: being passed from home to home, the chaos of this

574
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: is incredibly traumatic.

575
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: So yes, I try to be I try to have

576
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: like an open mind about this book because I've read

577
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: a lot of articles from foster parents who seem to

578
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: be people of really good will talking about how inadequate

579
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: the system is. And I've made over the course the

580
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: least ten years of my life, a lot of friends

581
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: who were in foster care from an early age, none

582
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: of whom like the system or feel good about it,

583
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: all of whom feel very, very bad about how the

584
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: system works. This is not I'm not gonna I don't

585
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: I'm not going to pretend this is a comprehensive look

586
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: at it, but like it's really opened my eyes up

587
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: to like, I'm not going to say this is a

588
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: good thing that's being unfairly slandered. So I'm going to

589
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: try to I'm going to try to look at sort

590
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: of what seems likely based on the evidence, you know,

591
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: visa via his claims, and he does make some other

592
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: allegations about this foster family, which will be he and

593
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: his brother's last, that are more credible. He claims his

594
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: foster mom used him for free labor, making him work

595
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: for hours in her garden and around the house as

596
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: a quote unquote slave. Leo's account comports somewhat with his brothers,

597
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: although he doesn't compare it to slavery. He just says

598
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: they were strict and they had to do a lot

599
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: of chores, right, Yeah, But it's not hard to find

600
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: cases of foster parents using foster kids as unpaid labor.

601
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: The most shocking recent example of this is a case

602
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: that just concluded in West Virginia. A couple, Jean K.

603
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: White Feather and her husband, Donald Lance, were convicted of

604
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: forcing their five adopted children, all of whom were black,

605
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: to work as slaves on their farm. They had started

606
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: adopting kids from a shelter for vulnerable youths in Minnesota,

607
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: and then moved to Washington State and finally West Virginia

608
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three. They were ultimately reported to the

609
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: Canawao County Sheriff after a neighbor spotted Lance locking a

610
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: girl and her brother in the shed in a shed

611
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: for NBC News, the Sheriff's office said the two children

612
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: in the shed had no running water or bathroom and

613
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: had been deprived of adequate hygienic care and food. The

614
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: children said they slept on the concrete floor and had

615
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: been locked inside for twelve hours before they were found.

616
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: Another girl was found inside the home. An indictment alleged

617
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: that the couple targeted the children for forced labor because

618
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: of their race. They were charged with human trafficking, child neglect,

619
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: forced labor and other crimes, and in a happy ish ending,

620
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: they were convicted and sentenced to two hundred and fifteen

621
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: and one hundred and sixty years in prison, respectively. So

622
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: that's a happy is she then that's a happy ish ending? Like, yeah,

623
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: that seems like about two hundred years with the prison.

624
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, fair also oof.

625
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: So again, I don't know if Aligio is telling the

626
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: truth about this family, But it's not like this doesn't happen, right,

627
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,479
Speaker 1: being forced to work an unreasonable amount because you're a

628
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: fought particularly a black foster kid. You can find more

629
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: stories than the one I quot you right now. It's

630
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: also worth noting that this last couple that they live

631
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: with owns a church, right, and so these brothers are

632
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: forced to go to Bible study and attend church regularly.

633
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: And there's this mix of things where Alisio clearly learns

634
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: how to be a preacher a lot about how people

635
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: talk about religion, and it's going to make him very

636
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: effective at talking about religion at conversion, at the kind

637
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: of shit a cult leader needs to do.

638
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: Right, he gets speaking in general talking about religion, but

639
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: also speaking to a group of people, being charismatic, being

640
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: drawing them in.

641
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: And when you see him talk, if you like me,

642
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: have just spent way too much time looking at different

643
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: evangelical like you know, fringe set and stuff. It's like, oh, yeah, no,

644
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: I get where this comes from, right, you know? Again, folks,

645
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: watch the movie mar Jo if you want a little

646
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: more of an education on that. Alisio claims that he

647
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: was told several times he was a demon and that

648
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: he became scared of his reflection in the mirror. You

649
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: hear this a lot from kids who are stuff like this,

650
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: a lot from kids who are reasoned evangelical. So I

651
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: feel no need to like question that claim. Yeah. So

652
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: he has also alleged that these last foster parents physically,

653
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: although not sexually, abused him. His younger brother feels a

654
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: little differently, And I think this may just be them

655
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: both interpreting the same thing differently, because his brother Leo,

656
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: has acknowledged that they were both spanked regularly when they misbehaved,

657
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: but he doesn't describe this as abnormal or extreme, and

658
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: it may not have been. Right. There's a lot like

659
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: it's always bad to hit kids, you know. Also it's

660
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: pretty normal to spank kids, right, Yeah, And so the

661
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: fact that Alisio calls this abuse and Leo doesn't. I

662
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: don't see it necessarily as discrepancy and what happened I

663
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: know either.

664
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: Uh, that's up for interpretation. Also, Leo's little brother, Leo,

665
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: he was already in this house.

666
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: Prior, right, he went in a little earlier and.

667
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: Also younger, so maybe his experience was different. Or again,

668
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: maybe he's leaning into the story for the narrative of

669
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 2: his life either.

670
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: Way, yeah, or maybe it's the kind of thing where, yeah,

671
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: they were both spanked and that's not good. You shouldn't

672
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: hit kids for any reason. But also like Eligio's kind

673
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: of upselling it to have because having the super right

674
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: and like he doesn't need to his backgrounds very sad.

675
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: It's the narrative.

676
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: But I also understand that there's different room for different

677
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,959
Speaker 2: interpretations than the older child. I don't know which more

678
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: of a brunt too.

679
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: Absolutely my like I cans like, I wouldn't. I wouldn't

680
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: qualify what I did as like particularly again, it was

681
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,719
Speaker 1: not excessive for the time, but I definitely got spanked

682
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: more than my brother because during the time when I

683
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: am older than my brother and during the time when

684
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: I was a kid, it was more normal, right, And

685
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: my parents changed as society changed on that matter. Right,

686
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: Like I got people.

687
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: You know, more because I was an angel.

688
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: Right, you were perfect. Of course we were always talking

689
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: about this kid.

690
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 2: No, it's because it changed the baby. They didn't by

691
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: the time I was around, they didn't feel as good

692
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 2: about it.

693
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And you know, there's there's a number of

694
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: things that are possible here, but I don't see any

695
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: reason for him to be not. And we do have to,

696
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: like I'm not trying, like you do have to litigate

697
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: a cult leader's backstory even when it is this sad,

698
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: because like they lie about a lot of stuff. They're

699
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: cod leads, you know. Like, so I think we I'm

700
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: hoping that we're doing like a fair enough job of

701
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: being like this is probably true. This one. There's less

702
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: evidence for, you know. Alicio says that the abuse he

703
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: endured is what inspired him to begin committing petty crimes

704
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: and running away. He would periodically be gone for days

705
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: at a time, during which you would do stuff like

706
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: just steel cars for the hell of it, commit petty robberies,

707
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: burglarized houses and cars. I have relatives who had severe

708
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: ADHD it did stuff like this so again, I like

709
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: this does it all seemed pretty consistent. He was arrested

710
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: several times. Quote, I got locked up for everything. I

711
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: was so young, I was committing so many crimes. And again,

712
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: this is the kind of thing if you're white, if

713
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: your parents have money, this doesn't last on your record.

714
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 1: He's not, you know, all those parents do have some money.

715
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: After this cycle repeated itself a few times during his adolescence,

716
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: he was finally convicted and sentenced to five years of

717
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: juvenile detention, which is where he spends the remainder of

718
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: his time as a child. Right, the rest of the

719
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: last five years of his childhood, I mean, and his

720
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: first year of adulthood. Really, he spins incarcerated. At age sixteen,

721
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 1: he is sent from a juvenile detention area to East

722
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 1: Jersey State Prison. So they're like, well, at sixteen, you're

723
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: ready for the adult prison, and this week can absolutely

724
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: verify happens, right, And this is deeply abusive by the system,

725
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 1: by the state. No, kids should not go to prison.

726
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: I don't really think ever, like sixteen year olds aren't adults.

727
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: You shouldn't treat him that way, even when they do

728
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: horrible stuff, you know, even when they're committing murders. There's

729
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 1: still not adults, you know, but this is the way

730
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: the government is.

731
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we have done several yes.

732
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. The juvenile the juvenile offender system is just bastards

733
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: all the way down. It's like a fucking hedgerow of evil.

734
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: You couldn't drive a fucking tank through it. So this

735
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: is where he's going to spend the rest of his childhood.

736
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: He describes this as a desperate and miserable time during

737
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: which he repeatedly tried to kill himself. He was transferred

738
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: to the prison psych ward for some time as a result.

739
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: I have no trouble at like believing this. This is

740
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: an extraordinarily common story. Suicide is, at large, just among

741
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: all young people in the United States, the third leading

742
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: cause of death, and being a youth in custody substantially

743
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: increases your odds of attempting suicide or succeeding at it.

744
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: Incarcerated children complete suicide between two and four times as

745
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: often as youth and the general population. It is worth

746
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: noting the evidence suggests that the kind of kids who

747
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: wind up in custody are also likelier to have struggled

748
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: with suicidal ideation before incarceration. More than one third of

749
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 1: juvenile detainees report thinking of suicide in the six months

750
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,280
Speaker 1: prior to detention, and that number is almost fifty percent

751
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: for female detainees.

752
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: Wow, none of that's shocking.

753
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: No, No, it's worth it's always worth bringing up, right,

754
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: people should always have this, be reminded of this. But yeah,

755
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: it's not at all. If you are casually aware of

756
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: how any of this works, you're like, yup.

757
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

758
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: He's ultimately released in two thousand and one, after his

759
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: nineteenth birthday. He goes back so again. By the time

760
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 1: he is on an adult in the free world quote

761
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: unquote for the first time, he spent about a quarter

762
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: of his life behind bars. So not great, slightly more

763
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: than a quarter if I'm remembering my tipping math, which

764
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: is the only math I know how to do. Aligio

765
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: goes back to live with his family for this foster

766
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: family for a while, but for what should be obvious reasons,

767
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: that doesn't go well. Right, He's ultimately kicked out. At

768
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: least that's his story. Maybe it was more of a

769
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: there's some I've heard some versions of it that like

770
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: he chose to leave. I don't know. I don't think

771
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: it matters all that much. Thankfully, he has made contact

772
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: with several of his siblings at this point, from which

773
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: he's been estranged since he was very young, right and stuff. Yeah,

774
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: his sisters, and they seem to they're doing their best

775
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: for their little brothers, right, that's the That's the feeling

776
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: I get because he couch serfs with several of them

777
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: for different periods of time. It never lasts. He is

778
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: very hard to live with, and he is I just

779
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 1: given based on what happens later, I have no trouble

780
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: believing a pretty abusive person to live with. They really

781
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: are trying. It sounds like, based on both his account

782
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: and the accounts that you get from other members of

783
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: the family, that like they do attempt. He count serves

784
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: with his sisters for a while, he couch serves with

785
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: an old friend, and kind of between the two of them,

786
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: he's able to gradually, over several months, make his way

787
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: from New York City down to South Philly. This is

788
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: where he gets his first adult job as a security guard,

789
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: and he seems to feel good enough about this that

790
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: he decides the army is a good place for me, which, okay,

791
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people make a decision like this, and

792
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, outside of the whole problem of what the

793
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: army does, you know, imperialism, all that good stuff. I

794
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: do know a lot of people who will tell you

795
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: quite out both. I don't recommend other people joined the army.

796
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: And I would have killed myself if I hadn't joined

797
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: the army or the Marine Corps or whatever, I would

798
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: have wound up dead. Right, that's a very just a

799
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 1: for them.

800
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 2: It's an of something to go do. But yeah, you

801
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 2: are something.

802
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: To go do. And I know people who like because

803
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,439
Speaker 1: their parents, because they they had no no one who

804
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: told them how to be an adult fight like finally,

805
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: like being in the military and having older people as

806
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: mentors who are like here is how you exist in

807
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: the world as a person was something they desperately needed. Right,

808
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: So sometimes it does work out out to people. For people,

809
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: this is yeah, So he's this is posed. It's not

810
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: a great time to join the army, one of the

811
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 1: worst times. I don't know that it would have begne

812
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: well for him. But he's not allowed to stay. And

813
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to put from that right up in Rolling

814
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: Stone quote. He has said he completed basic training but

815
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: was discharged when the Army learned of his psychiatric treatment.

816
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: And this is probably again, if he had tried a

817
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 1: few years later, they probably would have kept him because

818
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: during like the surge, right they were they were letting

819
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: a lot of dudes with sketchy histories, like, yeah, we

820
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 1: just need bodies. You want to take a samurai sword

821
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: and a share, fuck it go, Like that's a little

822
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: thing that happened. That's an actual guy that said, you know,

823
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: if you are innately, if the army won't take you

824
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: in like two thousand and two, you probably don't have

825
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: a lot of jobs you can get hired for, right, Like,

826
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,040
Speaker 1: that's just a reality. And he's going to spend the

827
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: next several years of his life on the verge of homelessness,

828
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: desperately pivoting from one gig and location to the next.

829
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: He signs up with the job Corp, but he leaves

830
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: very quickly. He looks back up with his little brother Leo,

831
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 1: who's an adult now, and they moved to New York

832
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: City with one of his older sisters for a while

833
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: until she kicks him out or they have a fight

834
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: and they leave. They wind up in Augusta, Georgia, next

835
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: where they crash with another sister, and again just a

836
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: shatteringly common story for people who come from this kind

837
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: of associate, who are orphaned, who grow up super poor,

838
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: who wind up in the foster system. Stuff like this

839
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: is not right. Now, There's a lot of people who

840
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: have experiences like this, and most of them don't become

841
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: abusive cult leaders like Alicio. Right, important context, he gets

842
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: his next full time job at this point, working six

843
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: days a week at a slaughterhouse, probably not good for

844
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: his mental health. One of the worst jobs you can do,

845
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,720
Speaker 1: I say this is someone who slaughters animals, Like slaughter

846
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,720
Speaker 1: housework is just a fucking nightmare. Right. He starts drinking

847
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: and smoking weed constantly as a coping mechanism for how

848
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: traumatizing doing this job is. Yeah, yeah, it's about I mean,

849
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: my mom used to because she had a donut shop

850
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 1: that you know, bankrupted the family. But like when that's

851
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: some of my earliest memories. And she would deliver to

852
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: the Tyson Chicken plant near Iabell, Oklahoma, and that you

853
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: could smell that place from a half hour away, right,

854
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: like I can't eat like and she always just left

855
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: after delivering it, looking haunted. It's just a bleak thing

856
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: to have to do.

857
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you won't catch me anywhere near a slaughterhouse.

858
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: No, avoid factory farmed meat people if you can, which

859
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: you know often you can, although everything's getting more expensive.

860
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. Do whatever you can do. I'm not young.

861
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 1: It's miserable work. So he starts taking drugs a lot more.

862
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: You get the feeling. I think this might be a

863
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: guy who is schizotypal. I don't know that he's been

864
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: dieg gnosed with that. It's just because of some of

865
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: the things that happened later. Either way, the fact that

866
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: he starts smoking weed is not going to be good

867
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: for him. Neither is the drinking. He increasingly has issues

868
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: controlling his anger. During one argument with his older sister,

869
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: he punches her in the face and she kicks him

870
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: but not his little brother out of the house. So again,

871
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: this is a guy. I don't know if this is

872
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: the first physical violence that he uses on someone close

873
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: to him, but this is the first kind of documented case.

874
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: It's going to be a pattern in his life. And

875
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 1: so Bishop's going to spend the next several weeks living

876
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: on the street. He's outright homeless now until a friend

877
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: of his and it's kind of unclear from the interviews

878
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: I've heard. A lot of this comes from interviews pieced

879
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: together by that Hood Horror's YouTube channel, which again you

880
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: should check out. This guy doesn't have a lot of followers,

881
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: but is very good at what he's doing. I really

882
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: recommend it's like a seventeen part series. So by far

883
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,439
Speaker 1: I've done my best. That Rolling Stone article is good.

884
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: The hoodh Horrors piece is by far the most detailed

885
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,720
Speaker 1: history of this guy. If you find yourself really interested

886
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: in everything that's happened with this cult. But it is

887
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 1: a long It's like nine or ten hours of content, right. Yeah.

888
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: So again, he gets invited by this friend of his

889
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 1: to come crash in Atlanta. He manages to get work

890
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: as a barber. And one of the things that you're

891
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: getting from this, in addition to the bad stuff, is

892
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: that he must be pretty charming to a lot of people,

893
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: because he does keep getting invites with people to stay

894
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: with him and crash with him. A lot of folks,

895
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: including people who aren't his blood relatives, try to help him,

896
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: right Yeah, So.

897
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 2: That's what I was thinking. All these people that let

898
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 2: him couch sir for crash, there's got to be a reason.

899
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's got to be a reason.

900
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 4: Right.

901
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: This isn't. This isn't a guy who is like a

902
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: purely toxic force to the people in his life. Otherwise

903
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: he wouldn't be getting these opportunities, right. So he gets

904
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 1: some work as a barber for the first time during

905
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: this period, and he's able to like make a living

906
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: at it. He has some skill with this, but barbering

907
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,959
Speaker 1: doesn't pay a lot, or at least the way he's

908
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: doing it, he's not making good money, obviously, I know

909
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: some people do quite fine with it. So he starts

910
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: basically flirt you being a sugar baby for women who

911
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: have more money than him, which is basically every woman.

912
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: He has almost no money at this point. He says, quote,

913
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: I used my body, I used my looks in order

914
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 1: to get money and access to cars from various women.

915
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: He also starts selling weed to supplement his lifestyle. And

916
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: as you'll see, you know, some people are just kind

917
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 1: of naturally jacked, Like they have to work out some

918
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: but like working out a fairly minimal amount, eating an

919
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 1: okay diet, they're just shredded. He's one of those people, right,

920
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:38,280
Speaker 1: Being jacked comes fairly easily to him. You know, he's

921
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: never doing well enough to afford his own place at

922
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 1: this point. And this is me reading in between the

923
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: lines a little bit. I think it might be more

924
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: that he is unwilling to spend any of his money

925
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: on rent, so he's always living with someone, usually a

926
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: girlfriend who he inevitably cheats on constantly. And this is

927
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 1: how he winds up for the third time homeless, and

928
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 1: because he gets kicked out of the house for cheating.

929
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: Uh.

930
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 1: The desperation of this situation convinces him to take an

931
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: offer that he had been given by someone else to

932
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: start stripping at a gay strip club. He describes himself

933
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: as going gay for pay and you know, I, Sophie

934
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: will show you some photos here. There's documented evidence of

935
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: him at this point as a dancer, as a stripper

936
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: and a sex worker. He claims, quote, I was the

937
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: number one dancer that was hosting the shows in every

938
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: arena in Atlanta. I can't verify this, but like, yeah, so,

939
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: how did you describe this guy looking from those what

940
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: Sophie's showing Like pretty hot? He's pretty hot, Like he's

941
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: he's he's yoked. You know, he's a good look.

942
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:43,720
Speaker 3: Ye works out, oiled up, he knows.

943
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: How to dress like he looks pretty good.

944
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 2: Uh.

945
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: I could see when he It's one of those things.

946
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:52,879
Speaker 1: I don't know if he was the number one male

947
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: stripper in Atlanta, but like, yeah, I could see him

948
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: doing gay mail stripper. I could be like, I can

949
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,720
Speaker 1: see him doing pretty well. Yeah. I don't have trouble

950
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 1: believing that he's this is something he's able to like

951
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 1: do quite well at His stripper name is Tyson for

952
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: Tyson beckfiy for.

953
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 3: I forgot one image?

954
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: Oh what's that? I was it the naked one where

955
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: he's holding the water bottle over his cock.

956
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,240
Speaker 2: Okay, why'd you forget that one?

957
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 1: Yeah?

958
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 3: Because I mean that's a good one. It was on

959
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 3: a separate page.

960
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you'll pull that up. There we go, There

961
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: we go.

962
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a lot of people's tender profile right there.

963
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're lucky, Jesus, if you're lucky, you'll see

964
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: the tea pendant he's wearing. That's because his stripper name

965
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: is Tyson for Tyson Beckford who is a Jamaican American

966
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: actor and model who hosted two seasons of Make Me

967
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: a Supermodel and was one of Ralph Lauren's big male

968
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: models for years. I don't know much about the model industry,

969
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: but what I read casually says he's one of the

970
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: rare male models who is like as big as some

971
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: of the biggest female models, right in terms of like

972
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: his incomference name, he's very big, he's a big deal,

973
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: suggests insists that he was and is entirely straight, and

974
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: that this was a purely mercenary arrangement for him. That said,

975
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: he doesn't actually seem to be like homophobic or transphobic.

976
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: So there's that, I guess, good for him.

977
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, completely rotten inside. That's cool.

978
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just not I don't think he has any

979
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: personal care about that whatsoever. He's certainly not a super

980
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: judgmental guy when it comes to that stuff. Speaking of

981
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: people who won't judge you, our sponsors will never judge you.

982
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 2: They would never they would never dream of it.

983
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: They're the only people who love you and the only

984
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: people you can trust. I think we can all agree

985
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: on that, certainly, certainly for me, no argument from anyone.

986
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: Why would you argue. We're back and we're talking about

987
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: this fucking guy. So guy, things are starting to go

988
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: well for him, he's making good money. He also continues

989
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: serially dating women, and he gets one of these ladies

990
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 1: pregnant with a child, Elisha Alisio Junior, and he seems

991
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: to have no further contact with this kid beyond naming him.

992
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: Soon after this, he gets another lady pregnant, Maisha. Maisha

993
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: has two kids prior to meeting him. They get together

994
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: and start living in the same home, and he names

995
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: their son Osiris. And he does spend some time with

996
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: this kid, trying to parent him. And he'd been doing

997
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: pretty well, okay, at least financially before, but now he

998
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,720
Speaker 1: is effectively taking care of both, you know, this first

999
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: kid that he seems I think he sends some money to.

1000
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's not totally up on his child support.

1001
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: He's supporting this second kid, and he's helping Maysha support

1002
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: or other kids. And he finds himself strapped, right, the

1003
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: stripper money is not alone enough for this, so he

1004
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: starts working as a like an escort, right, a gay escort,

1005
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: and like you know, he's now having sex for pay, right,

1006
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: and he also stars in at least one pornographic film.

1007
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: I suspect there are more. Knowing how that industry works,

1008
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 1: but we have documentation of at least one. This is

1009
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 1: not easy for him. He begins drinking more heavily, and

1010
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: when he gets drunk he's often physically violent. This comes

1011
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: to a head in twenty eleven, and I want to

1012
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: play a segment of Maisha and Aleigio both discussing the incident,

1013
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: which is part of that Hood Horrors documentary. There were

1014
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: other videos where this was related, but they've been pulled

1015
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 1: from the internet, so this documentary is the only place

1016
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: I can find it. Again. I really do recommend watching

1017
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: The Rise and Fall of Nature Boy Alisio Bishop, which

1018
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,919
Speaker 1: is like seventeen parts at this moment. But yeah, here's

1019
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: a brief clip of them talking about this incident.

1020
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 4: Look out the window he stabbed and my tie is

1021
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 4: to my car, so I go to the door. He

1022
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 4: come outside. I'm like, nah, like you've been drinking.

1023
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 2: I know you.

1024
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 4: I don't do you when alcohol like go ahead. He

1025
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 4: pulls me outside and I was holding onto the door.

1026
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 4: So when I hold it to the door, I closed it.

1027
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 4: He grad dragged me down the stays. He got on

1028
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 4: top of me, was beaten my face and I don't

1029
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 4: know how the police pulled up in the yard. They

1030
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 4: sat him on top of me and they pulled him

1031
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 4: off of me when I was a cop came out

1032
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 4: and over a cop pull three outdo.

1033
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: Murder?

1034
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 4: Wow?

1035
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so not great? Yeah, not great. He gets arrested, Yeah,

1036
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: for aggravated battery. Sounds like fair charges based on you know,

1037
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,359
Speaker 1: what they say and what he has.

1038
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 2: He was trying to fucking.

1039
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 1: Kill her, Yeah, And the police report notes that Mayesha

1040
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: had severe swelling over her left eye the size of

1041
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 1: a fist, a laceration behind her left ear marks on

1042
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 1: her upper body, and her pajama pants were torn. He

1043
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 1: faced twenty years in prison, but by the time it

1044
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 1: took about a year for the case to come around

1045
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: to trial, by which point Maisha and him had reconciled.

1046
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: She writes the letter a judge in his favor. Bishop

1047
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: takes a plea deal that includes probation and a thousand

1048
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 1: dollars fine but no prison time. And again it's this

1049
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 1: thing where like they make up. He apologizes. He says

1050
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 1: that he had promised the universe that if it got

1051
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: him offer these charges quote, I would never hit another woman.

1052
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: I should note that in this is He says this

1053
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: in a live stream years later, and in that live stream,

1054
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: he immediately adds, I lied because he becomes very convinced

1055
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: that men abusing women is an important thing philosophically. But

1056
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: that's in the future, you know. At this point Mayisha

1057
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: takes him back. They're still living together. He does make

1058
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: some changes after this, although I don't know how you'd

1059
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 1: categorize these, he claims, and again these are his allegations

1060
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,720
Speaker 1: that are not verified. He claims he befriended a wealthy

1061
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: Biblical scholar named doctor Mike Brown. Doctor Mike Brown is

1062
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: a real person with a Wikipedia and everything. He is

1063
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: a Messianic Judaism, which is people who believe it's like

1064
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: they think that they're a kind of Jews that accept

1065
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: Jesus as the Messiah. It's a very problematic thing. I'm

1066
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: not going to get into it. He's a major Christian Zionist.

1067
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: He does have a real PhD in Bible stuff. He's

1068
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: got a pretty messy history in terms of shit. He said.

1069
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 1: He's held anti pride rallies. He has claimed homosexual homosexuality

1070
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: is caused by childhood trauma. He has in the past

1071
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: supported conversion therapy and Uganda's criminalization of homosexuality. He's also

1072
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: claimed not to be anti gay, but I don't know

1073
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: if this is an example of him having softened or

1074
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: just lying. I don't know, you know it's He's definitely

1075
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 1: has said some really fucked up shit. He has been

1076
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: accused of sexually inappropriate behavior by a female employee, and

1077
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: he denies these allegations. Alegio has apparently claimed that the

1078
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: two a clandestine relationship, and that for years doctor Brown

1079
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 1: paid him three thousand dollars a month as an allowance

1080
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 1: and also fronted him the money he needed to start

1081
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,320
Speaker 1: his own barbershop. He starts his own barber shop around

1082
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: this time he has money from somewhere. I have no

1083
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: I'm saying this because this is a thing you can

1084
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 1: get sued over, and I absolutely do not want to

1085
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: be misreporting this. There is no outside verification or confirmation

1086
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: of any kind that his allegations against doctor Brown are true,

1087
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,479
Speaker 1: nor have I come across similar allegations against Brown. Again,

1088
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: the allegations against him are that he is abusive to

1089
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: a female colleague, right, not that he's hiring male prostitutes

1090
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: or doing a sugar But those are not allegations I

1091
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: hear anywhere else from him. So I am telling you

1092
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: this because these are the things that Aligio claims, not

1093
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 1: because there's outside verification of this. I don't know the truth.

1094
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 2: Robert, You guys, he's doing his.

1095
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: Best, really trying to state what the actual known facts

1096
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: are here. What we do know is that he gets

1097
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: enough money to start a barber shop. It is not

1098
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: a small shop. He hires a team of barbers. Photos

1099
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: make it look like more than a dozen shares in

1100
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: the shop, and it does fairly well. It seems to

1101
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: be a pretty successful business. He starts to make good

1102
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 1: money during this and he's you know, this business is

1103
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 1: supporting a decent number of people. He lets his little

1104
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: brother live in the back. He won't let him be

1105
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: a barber, but he'll let him sweep up after. I

1106
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 1: don't know why Leo seems pissed about it. So things

1107
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 1: are going pretty well, but this is a grind. You know,

1108
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: running a small business is not easy. I've never heard

1109
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,720
Speaker 1: anything that makes it sound like barbershop is an easy

1110
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 1: kind of business to run. And he grows exhausted with

1111
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: the grind and starts getting obsessed with the idea of

1112
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: living closer to nature and dropping out of society who

1113
00:55:53,760 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: amongst us, right, common common thing to desire? Yes, yeah,

1114
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: not a weird story. Unfortunately, he starts to explore this

1115
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: by meeting a bunch of like hippies on the internet

1116
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: and watching YouTube videos from different creators in the Black

1117
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:15,439
Speaker 1: Consciousness community, which we'll talk about in more detail, but

1118
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: it essentially mixes. This is a subculture. The Black consciousness

1119
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: or conscious community online is a subculture just sort of

1120
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 1: a collection of YouTubers. There's some podcasters, some rappers who

1121
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 1: have this mix of like very standard hippie back to

1122
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 1: the land style ideology with also an education on like

1123
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: the history of racism in the United States that is

1124
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 1: unfortunately mixed with stuff that gets scammier like quote unquote

1125
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 1: natural health and astrology. And from what I can tell,

1126
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: it's a broad subculture. So depending on who you get

1127
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: obsessed with as a creator in this, you might wind

1128
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: up learning about both like you know, organic farming and

1129
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: making human manure and stuff. All of it's your wonderful things.

1130
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 1: And alongside like the destruction of Black Wall Street and

1131
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,920
Speaker 1: Tulsa and the move bombing right, very real conspiracy theories.

1132
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: But there's also a sizable chunk of this community well,

1133
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 1: you will learn some very not real conspiracy theories, right, Yeah,

1134
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: there's a very slope.

1135
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 2: And there's different communities. It's like, yeah, I want to

1136
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 2: take that, but.

1137
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: Not that you ye, And it's difficult when like so

1138
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: much of it is about like this is a this

1139
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: is a largely black community, talking about like the history

1140
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: of racism against and like institutionalized bigotry against black people

1141
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 1: in the United States. There's so many real conspiracies, and

1142
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: it's also once you hear about those easy for a

1143
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 1: lot of people to get pulled into the stuff that's

1144
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: not so real. He gets really interested in black Israelite stuff,

1145
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: which is basically black people are the lost thirteenth tribe

1146
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: of Israel or whatever. He gets into a lot of

1147
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: anti vaccine stuff, which is adjacent to a lot of

1148
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: you know, to at least elements of this subculture. Alisio's

1149
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: loved ones at the time mostly describe him obsessively watching

1150
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: videos about conspiracy theories and natural health, and particularly when

1151
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 1: Mayisha talks about this, she always says he's watching conspiracy

1152
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: theory videos. He buys an RV never a good sign,

1153
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 1: never a good if your friend like drops out of

1154
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: social interactions, spends months watching YouTube videos and then buys

1155
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: an RV. You need to intervene. He's about to do

1156
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: something bad.

1157
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 2: These are red flags.

1158
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: These are red flags that said, in this particular case,

1159
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 1: this is more a sign of where things are going.

1160
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: The RV itself doesn't in too badly. He and Maisha

1161
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: live on the road for a month and try to

1162
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: just like let other people run the barber shop, but

1163
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: they're bad at it, and so he's forced to come

1164
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: back from Florida to stop it from going out of business.

1165
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: Once he's backed, to try to keep himself interested in

1166
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: the barbershop, he sets up a stage there, which initially

1167
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 1: he's like, so local acts can play right, people can

1168
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: do stand up or you know, musicians can do stuff.

1169
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: He gives out liquor and beer and stuff, which is

1170
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: not super uncommon for barbershops. So he's trying to like

1171
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: make it into a community space. But that becomes him

1172
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: primarily using that stage to give speeches that are like

1173
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: rants about his different pet theories. And at this point

1174
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 1: he's embraced a couple of specific theories. One of them,

1175
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 1: and this is an older pre existing theory, is the

1176
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 1: idea that higher amounts of melanin in the skin can

1177
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: correlate directly to higher IQ. Right, the more melanin you have,

1178
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: the smarter you are. And kind of what goes with

1179
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: that is exposing yourself to sun by spending as much

1180
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: time nearly naked outdoors as possible makes you smarter.

1181
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 2: Right, Okay.

1182
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: He also starts to believe that bathing is bad for you.

1183
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 1: You don't need to bathe if you eat only fruit

1184
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 1: or other foods that don't make you smell. This is

1185
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: a thing Steve Jobs believed. No one else agrees with this,

1186
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 1: and also as.

1187
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 3: A reminder, Steve Job washed his feet in the toilet.

1188
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, now that is something Elisia would not do

1189
00:59:56,440 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 1: because Alisio believes toilets are evil. He comes to you

1190
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: insist and believe very strongly that pooping and peeing indoors

1191
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 1: is one of the greatest evils you can perpetuate because

1192
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 1: they make they are. By doing that, you are robbing

1193
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: nature right of your critical you know of nutrients and stuff.

1194
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: I want to play a clip of him talking that

1195
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 1: was republished by Hood Horrors. This is from all of

1196
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: his stuff has been taken off the internet. After the

1197
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: things that we'll talk about in Part two happened, So

1198
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: it's hard to find a lot of this. These different

1199
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: kind of documentaries online about him are some of the

1200
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: only sources remaining, which is why I'm going back to

1201
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 1: this documentary. I do want to again continue to you know,

1202
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: shout out the Rise and Fall of Nature boy Alisio

1203
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: bishop on hoodhars. It is a really good piece of work.

1204
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: But here is him talking years later explaining his theories

1205
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: about poop. So this gives you an idea. This is

1206
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 1: filmed later, but it gives you an idea of like

1207
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: the kind of shit he's saying in his rants. At

1208
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: this barber shop.

1209
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 3: They showed me, like where to use the backthrone, which

1210
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 3: we all use.

1211
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 4: The vacuum in the backyard.

1212
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 5: This is not shit poop. It's very sacred. When you

1213
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 5: eat right, you eat the right thing. You eat from

1214
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 5: the earth. It is no longer toxic waste. It is organic.

1215
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 5: It is soiled. You get the fruit, you eat the fruit,

1216
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,919
Speaker 5: it eats the soil. This is how you give back.

1217
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 5: The government is taking this and putting into the toilet

1218
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 5: and stealing it and disconnecting youth from the.

1219
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:33,479
Speaker 1: Universe and stealing it, stealing, stealing your poop by making

1220
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 1: you think you need a toilet to disconnect you from

1221
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: the universe, so you don't realize, you know, the evil

1222
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 1: schemes they're perpetuating.

1223
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 2: And see words and phrasing in there of like sacred, sacred,

1224
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 2: the government, and it's just leading into the conspiracy of it,

1225
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 2: the and the religious.

1226
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 1: And here's the thing, Like, I actually have a lot

1227
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 1: of friends and have spent a lot of time myself

1228
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 1: using stuff like composting toilets. Right, I lived on and

1229
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: I have spent a lot of time on you know,

1230
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: in properties where people are like very close to a

1231
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 1: closed loop. I have known and know people who do

1232
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 1: the very close to zero impact environmentally, like they produce

1233
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: all their own food, they turn all of their own waste.

1234
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: It is possible. It's a lot of work. It is

1235
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 1: much more complicated. And I want to and I say

1236
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 1: that because I want to make it very clear. He

1237
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 1: is not saying you should make your poop into human manure.

1238
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 1: He is not an advocate for utilizing any of this

1239
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 1: waste in any way. He just thinks you should only

1240
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: shit in the backyard. Yeah, that is very important for

1241
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 1: you to understand.

1242
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: It's a big difference. And I don't know that much

1243
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 2: about it. But there are some hygiene issues here.

1244
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: There's so we would all die if society best.

1245
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 2: I know that there are better places to be in

1246
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 2: nature than others. Yes, that it can't It can have

1247
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 2: negative consequences.

1248
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: If our whole society committed to like a functional extense

1249
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 1: of human hure program, sure that would be better than

1250
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: what we do. But if everyone just pooped in the yard,

1251
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 1: we would all get sick and die. Because it's bad

1252
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 1: to just poop in the yard.

1253
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, in general, probably you're bad.

1254
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: For the bad for the yard. The yard's good to

1255
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 1: just shit everywhere for the environment either, yes, Also if it's.

1256
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 2: Not toxic when you eat all the I don't know.

1257
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 1: That none of this is accurate. After one of these

1258
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 1: rants where he's just talking about how the government's stealing

1259
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 1: your poop, a former regular at the barbershop asks him, Hey, man,

1260
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 1: you used to just give us drinks when we came

1261
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: to get a haircut. What happened to the drinks?

1262
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 2: So this is changing?

1263
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: He is not happy at the barber shop. The barbershop's

1264
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 1: not super happy with him, and in short order he

1265
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: works out a deal to basically give away sell his

1266
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 1: ownership of the barber shop and exchange for an ongoing

1267
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 1: interest in the business to somebody. He's already committed himself

1268
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 1: to begin copying the Conscious community figureheads he'd grown obsessed with,

1269
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 1: and he'd even bought up a new name for himself,

1270
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 1: and from this point forward he no longer goes by

1271
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: Alicio Bishop. He now uses a new name, nature Boy,

1272
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: and we will be talking about that and his growth

1273
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: into a significant figure within the Conscious community in Part two.

1274
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: How you feeling so far, Katie.

1275
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 2: I'm feeling great. I'm excited to hear what happens to

1276
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:21,479
Speaker 2: Nature Boy.

1277
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 1: I'll tell you one thing. A lot of people pooping

1278
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 1: in backyards. There we go. Beatles song, Yeah, that's right.

1279
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:33,919
Speaker 1: Wait is that a Beatles song?

1280
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1281
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 1: There's a lot of Beatles song. I don't know.

1282
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 2: I just think it is Mother Nature's son, Mother Nature

1283
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 2: Son different, a little bit different.

1284
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 3: I just think of a former side character on Behind

1285
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 3: the Bass or Rick Flair.

1286
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 1: That's right, Oh yeah, Rick Flair the Nature Boy. Also,

1287
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 1: I think pissed on a chair or something at one

1288
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: point in that story, if I'm remembering right. So you know,

1289
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: similar guys, maybe part of that maybe someone his chair.

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Speaker 3: Well, he was part of the he was one of

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Speaker 3: the ones that was in the adoption scandal where he

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Speaker 3: was just kidnapped.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he was stolen as a baby. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: he was definitely stolen as a baby.

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Speaker 3: Player comes back is what I'm yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yes, all right, everybody, Katie you want to plug your pluggables.

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Speaker 2: Here real quick? Oh sure? Oh well, you can find

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Speaker 2: me over at some More News with Cody Johnston. We

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Speaker 2: now have three episodes a week. Well, we've got two

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01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 2: podcasts and then the main shell you do show and

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Speaker 2: you can check us out there. We've got a Patreon,

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Speaker 2: we got all the things. That's it.

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Speaker 6: Go do that?

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Speaker 1: Yep? All right, well everybody go poop in your backyard.

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Speaker 3: Don't do that.

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Speaker 6: Behind the Bastards is a production a cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 6: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

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Speaker 6: dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 6: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 3: Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes

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Speaker 3: every Wednesday and Friday.

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Speaker 2: Subscribe to our

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Speaker 6: Channel YouTube dot com slash at Behind the Bastards