WEBVTT - Tony Tetro: The Art Forger's Forger

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<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Zaren Elizabeth, what's up? How you doing? Girl?

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<v Speaker 3>Good? You know it's ridiculous?

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<v Speaker 2>Ah, yes, do I You ever heard of Betty Penrose? No,

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<v Speaker 2>she was a secretary. Her boss was a lawyer in Oakland, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>in her hometown. He filed a lawsuit on behalf of

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<v Speaker 2>his secretary. And that's how Betty Penrose sued God. Why God, Elizabeth?

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<v Speaker 2>Because God had struck her house with lightning nine years earlier,

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<v Speaker 2>and so Betty Penrose sued God for quote negligence. She

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<v Speaker 2>filed her lawsuit in a California court, even though the

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<v Speaker 2>lightning strike had occurred in Arizona.

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<v Speaker 3>I was gonna say, we don't have a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>lightning strikes.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly why California? Well, why a California court in particular,

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<v Speaker 2>in particular, Elizabeth, nineteen sixty nine, Sonoma County? Why there?

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<v Speaker 2>Why in the middle of your peak California? Great question, Elizabeth,

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<v Speaker 2>this woman, why would she sue God? Well in California? No? Less? Well?

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<v Speaker 2>These important possibly, I'll tell you this much. Two words

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<v Speaker 2>answer our question? What two words? Lou Gottlieb. If you

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<v Speaker 2>don't know Lou Gottlieb. He was a former singer and

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<v Speaker 2>bass player from the folk trio The Limelighters. Anyway, one

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<v Speaker 2>week earlier than the lawsuit was filed, Lou Gottlieb had

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<v Speaker 2>transferred the deed to his Morning Star ranch over to God. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>that legally made the Almighty a property owner in the

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<v Speaker 2>state of California, and thus God could now be sued. So,

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<v Speaker 2>according to the news story I found in the Indianapolis

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<v Speaker 2>Star from May fifteenth, nineteen sixty nine, quote, the Sonoma

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<v Speaker 2>County Clerk issued a summons for the deity and returned

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<v Speaker 2>it to the attorney for service. So basically they were like, here,

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<v Speaker 2>go find God, and you find the usubpoena the architect

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<v Speaker 2>of the universe. Thank God. So, the news story goes on,

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<v Speaker 2>is as plaintiff is informed and believes that defendant God,

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<v Speaker 2>at all times mentioned herein is responsible for the maintenance

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<v Speaker 2>and operation of the universe, including the weather in and

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<v Speaker 2>upon the state of the Arizona, and that on or

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<v Speaker 2>about August seventeenth, nineteen sixty Defendant so maintained and controlled

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<v Speaker 2>the weather in or around or upon Phoenix, Arizona, in

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<v Speaker 2>such careless and negligent manner as it caused lightning to

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<v Speaker 2>strike the plaintiff's house, setting it on fire and startling,

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<v Speaker 2>frightening and shocking the plaintiff. So they're saying that God's fault.

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<v Speaker 2>So then this story, which is good because we had

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<v Speaker 2>this like you know, this crazy folk trio that've left

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<v Speaker 2>their land to God and this lady's got her like

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<v Speaker 2>Oakland lawyer enter our next Kouk a dude in Kenya,

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<v Speaker 2>Joseph and Juwey. He steps forward. He's read this story.

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<v Speaker 2>He says, I will defend God in this lawsuit, this

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred thousand dollars lawsuit. How dare you? So he's

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<v Speaker 2>there in Nairobi and he writes the letter because this

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<v Speaker 2>is from the Arizona Republic because they also reported on

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<v Speaker 2>it May twenty second, nineteen sixty nine. They quote from

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<v Speaker 2>in Juey's letter to the Attorney General of the United

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<v Speaker 2>States of Arizona. As I understand you have signed the summons,

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<v Speaker 2>I would request you kindly to hold this case until

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<v Speaker 2>I try and get enough finances to come there and

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<v Speaker 2>defend God in court without appealing in person. I can

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<v Speaker 2>be called in the court after the change has been read.

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<v Speaker 2>The plea of not guilty, must be endorsed. So he's like,

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<v Speaker 2>let me go and fight and defend God. So this

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<v Speaker 2>offer was kind, noble, we all have to agree, right,

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<v Speaker 2>but ultimately unnecessary because Betty Penrose lost her lawsuit on

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<v Speaker 2>a technicality. God was never able to take possession of

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<v Speaker 2>land since the Almighty did not execute control of the

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<v Speaker 2>deeded land. As The Indianapolis Star later reported, the deed

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<v Speaker 2>filed quote last week conveying the hippie ranch to God

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<v Speaker 2>was quote deemed invalid. So Betty Parsons lawsuit against God

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<v Speaker 2>was thrown out. And so just like God, she no

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<v Speaker 2>longer had any illegal grounds to stand on. So I

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<v Speaker 2>love about this. In nineteen sixty nine and everything, there's

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<v Speaker 2>all this mad stuff going on, and what is Betty

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<v Speaker 2>Parsons doing. She's like, I'm a sue God.

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<v Speaker 3>I was wondering, like, how would God pay the property taxes?

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<v Speaker 3>So many method just like manna from heaven.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and also the whole idea that like if you

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<v Speaker 2>are the you know, totally omniscient and all powerful, then

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<v Speaker 2>you've already taken possession of the land, right you don't

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<v Speaker 2>really have to exquest him that it makes sense the ridiculous,

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<v Speaker 2>very ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 3>I like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 3>You want to know what else is ridiculous? I'm here

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<v Speaker 3>for it, Secret Rooms.

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<v Speaker 2>What this is?

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<v Speaker 3>Ridiculous Crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists,

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<v Speaker 3>and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free and

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<v Speaker 3>one hundred percent ridiculous. I heard that I have for

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<v Speaker 3>you today, sir. Another one of my top shelf cutis

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<v Speaker 3>it's an art crime and a forgery. Hello man alive.

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<v Speaker 3>I love these I love art. I'm a terrible artist.

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<v Speaker 3>My only medium is words. Really, yeah, I can't draw

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<v Speaker 3>or paint to save my life.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you dance? No?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm fascinated by those who can draw and paint.

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<v Speaker 2>And even more people, Oh you're not me, so go on.

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<v Speaker 3>So what I find even more fascinating is when someone

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<v Speaker 3>who has a great skill doesn't use it to create

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<v Speaker 3>their own work. That fascinates me. We've talked about that before,

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<v Speaker 3>artists versus draftsman.

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<v Speaker 2>Basically, oh yes, okay, the artist artisan? Yeah yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So you can't call yourself an artist if you require

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<v Speaker 3>direction to create something. That's my hot take, unpopular opinion.

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<v Speaker 3>But oh how I love these forgers. I love their

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<v Speaker 3>wily ways, but they break my heart by misusing all

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<v Speaker 3>that talent. Okay, anyway, let me give you a quote

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<v Speaker 3>from today's cat Please. Forgery was fun, like a challenging

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<v Speaker 3>puzzle or riddle to solve. I love figuring out intriguing

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<v Speaker 3>ways to make an artwork plausible. I loved doing everything perfect,

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<v Speaker 3>leaving little hints that only the most knowledgeable experts would appreciate.

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<v Speaker 3>It's strange to say, but half the fun was imagining

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<v Speaker 3>the oohs and ahs I would get and the little

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<v Speaker 3>nods of appreciation I might receive. Without that art forgery,

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<v Speaker 3>would it just been another job?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I mean act totally relate. You make your work

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<v Speaker 2>entertaining to you. Yeah, it's not the work that's entertaining.

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<v Speaker 3>So who is this guy?

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<v Speaker 2>Who is this guy?

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<v Speaker 3>Elizabeth Anthony gen Tetro, Anthony gen Tetra, Tony Tetro, Tony Tetro.

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<v Speaker 2>Good. Yeah, that's a great one, right.

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<v Speaker 3>He's a serious character. He was born in nineteen fifty

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<v Speaker 3>in Fulton, New York, to Beatrice and James Tetro.

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<v Speaker 2>Also haven't heard of them? Run a three to three.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly, James House painter like you, I'm into that developed

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<v Speaker 3>a special process for coating water towers. Innovator. Beatrice's claim

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<v Speaker 3>to fame was that when she was a little girl,

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<v Speaker 3>she saw Amelia Earhart land her plane on the family pasture.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh dope, that's pretty cool.

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<v Speaker 3>These are like good, honest folk who have like cool little.

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<v Speaker 2>Things living Americana.

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<v Speaker 3>And they created a wild child.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So Tetro he was an ultra boy. Were you an

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<v Speaker 3>ultra boy? No?

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<v Speaker 2>No, I always resisted all of my Catholic indoctrinations. So

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<v Speaker 2>like I mean not like, I don't mean to sound

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<v Speaker 2>like a jerk, but like a lot of my friends,

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<v Speaker 2>like best friends, are ultra boys, like you should do

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<v Speaker 2>it to be fun. I'm like, are you kidding me?

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<v Speaker 2>I already have to get up into a paper route.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not doing this. So no, I was not an alto.

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<v Speaker 3>So Tetro ultra boy is a good kid. But like

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<v Speaker 3>most altar boys, he had a mischievous streak. That's just

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<v Speaker 3>a tree that is. He had no formal art training.

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<v Speaker 3>All of his skills were innate or self taught. When

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<v Speaker 3>he was in elementary school, he made his first piece

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<v Speaker 3>of art. Quote, I drew a picture of one of

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<v Speaker 3>the nuns. Sister Antonio I did this beautiful Vargas picture

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<v Speaker 3>of her, but pruney faced and in a habit. She

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<v Speaker 3>whacked me and took me to the priest.

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<v Speaker 2>He chuckled, Wait a var like a Vargas girl. So

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<v Speaker 2>he did her like a pin up with a prony face.

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<v Speaker 3>That's yeah, so who is he? Let's stell, let's deal further.

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<v Speaker 3>According to Ira Reiner, an LA district attorney, Tetro was

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<v Speaker 3>quote the single largest forger of artworks in America.

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<v Speaker 2>Really yeah, I don't think I've ever heard of it.

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<v Speaker 3>And according to Gary Helton, the district attorney's investigator, quote,

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<v Speaker 3>I consider mister Tetro to be one of the two

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<v Speaker 3>major art forgers in the United States. It's like he

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<v Speaker 3>gets first and then he gets a tie for first.

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<v Speaker 2>He's like I would put an Asterix steroid era forgers

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<v Speaker 2>came to come in.

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<v Speaker 3>Tom Binder, president of Tom Binder Fine Arts in Venice, California.

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<v Speaker 2>Tom Binder Fine Arts.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe it's Bender whatever, you know who cares.

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<v Speaker 2>Got a binder full of benders.

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<v Speaker 3>He said, quote, but you know what the bottom.

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<v Speaker 2>Line is the bottom blind guy.

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<v Speaker 3>Was just a brilliant mind that went astray. A Frankenstein.

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<v Speaker 3>All I know is that guy's a genius.

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<v Speaker 2>So he actually used Frankenstein correctly. He made it the

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<v Speaker 2>doctor Frankenstein mad. You know, he went mad, not the monster.

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<v Speaker 3>Exact way to buy that one bender so good. How

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<v Speaker 3>did he get there? How did Tony get there? When

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<v Speaker 3>he was sixteen, he married his pregnant high school girlfriend.

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<v Speaker 3>He was a father at seventeen. He moved to California

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<v Speaker 3>at nineteen, and then he was divorced by twenty three.

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<v Speaker 2>Really Russian life.

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<v Speaker 3>So he just moved five years exactly and then took

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<v Speaker 3>his show over to the West coast and there you go.

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<v Speaker 3>So he began studying art on his own. He went

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<v Speaker 3>to museums all the time, like practiced. He experimented with

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<v Speaker 3>paints and formal the for a baking process so that

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<v Speaker 3>he could create krakolure.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a really cool pattern. You have to do that

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<v Speaker 2>a blaze. You put down one glaze and you put

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<v Speaker 2>another on top of it. As it dries, it separates.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and it makes it look old and it creates.

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<v Speaker 2>It literally cracks like old desert earth. Right.

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<v Speaker 3>So Tetro he was working at the Broadway Department store

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<v Speaker 3>in the furniture department. Oh and one day, he picked

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<v Speaker 3>up a book. I know, right, isn't that come on department?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh he picked up a book Sarin.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh strong man, Okay, showing up.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, you know what book that was.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the book take a Guess how to win

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<v Speaker 2>friends and influence people.

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<v Speaker 3>Close Fake by Clifford or You're bron Elmirdhoy Biography.

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<v Speaker 2>I would not have guessed that he read.

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<v Speaker 3>He picks that up, he reads it. This is how

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<v Speaker 3>he described it. Quote. When I read that book, that

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<v Speaker 3>was really the beginning of this for me. The more

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<v Speaker 3>I read, the more I said to myself, I could

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<v Speaker 3>do this.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Elma would be so tickled by that.

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<v Speaker 3>Isn't that the greatest? It's like an instruction menial for him.

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<v Speaker 2>Full anarchist manifesto for art for Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Here's what Tetro said about Dhore quote. I saw his paintings.

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<v Speaker 3>He was in Los Angeles. I went to the galleries,

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<v Speaker 3>talked to people who knew him. He was here in

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<v Speaker 3>Los Angeles and sold a lot of paintings to celebrities

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<v Speaker 3>and he signed them horri I think he was really

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<v Speaker 3>good in creating fake art. I was impressed by him.

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<v Speaker 3>So this is like he's got this mentor, and like

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<v Speaker 3>an unassuming mentor. So so Tetro he began making reproductions

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<v Speaker 3>of pieces. One of his first attempts at selling a

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<v Speaker 3>faked piece was a copy of a copy.

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<v Speaker 2>He wanted to do a copy of a forged.

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<v Speaker 3>We talked about that with elmird Hori. Tetro copied a

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<v Speaker 3>Dhoy copy of Chagall.

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<v Speaker 2>So somebody wanted to They wanted their own Dehoy or

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<v Speaker 2>so I wanted their own horri version of Chagall, And

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<v Speaker 2>they were like, hey, Tetro, can you do that? Correct?

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<v Speaker 3>So Tetro he brings the piece to try and sell

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<v Speaker 3>it at a gallery and Vincent Price happened to be

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<v Speaker 3>there at the time. Yeah, no price art connoisseurtion. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>he knew his.

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<v Speaker 2>Stuff, really great art.

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<v Speaker 3>So he sees Tetro's piece and he says, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>like him pointing at Elmuir's name, and I don't like

0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.640
<v Speaker 3>him pointing to Shagall's name. So he's just like, get.

0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:11.760
<v Speaker 2>This out of here. Here.

0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.360
<v Speaker 3>Here's a fun fact. Did you know that if someone

0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:18.040
<v Speaker 3>sends a Chagall painting to be authenticated by the Committee Chagall,

0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:21.560
<v Speaker 3>it'll be destroyed under French law if it's determined to

0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:21.920
<v Speaker 3>be fake.

0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:24.040
<v Speaker 2>So I did not fair warning.

0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:27.840
<v Speaker 3>Now, you know, back to Tetro undeterred, undeterred by all

0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:29.280
<v Speaker 3>the insults from Vincent Price.

0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:31.000
<v Speaker 2>So there's no appealing in that process.

0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:32.920
<v Speaker 3>No, they're just like toss it in the fire, speak

0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.080
<v Speaker 3>to the dust. So Tetro starts selling his pieces at

0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.720
<v Speaker 3>art fairs, and he was up front that these were copies.

0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.120
<v Speaker 3>But what he found is that people cared more about

0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:45.000
<v Speaker 3>the art matching their decor than they did having some

0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:46.360
<v Speaker 3>sort of like authentic piece.

0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:48.959
<v Speaker 2>So they just want the effect, the feel.

0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this is why he put it. I would do

0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.240
<v Speaker 3>a Rembrandt or a Renoir, and I only earned a

0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:57.000
<v Speaker 3>few hundred dollars for it. I sold only a few paintings,

0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.040
<v Speaker 3>maybe twenty I sold. Nobody wanted a Rembrandt because I

0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.199
<v Speaker 3>figured if you put a rem brand over your fireplace,

0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.480
<v Speaker 3>somebody's gonna think it's a print. I sold them for

0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.400
<v Speaker 3>about three hundred dollars in an Aaron Brothers frame, although

0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.120
<v Speaker 3>I didn't sell many, which is like a good point,

0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.040
<v Speaker 3>you know, like if you're just living in like a

0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:18.960
<v Speaker 3>ranch house in like Demas. Yeah, he started copying photographs then. Quote,

0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.960
<v Speaker 3>I did portraits of many people judges FBI agents. I

0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.280
<v Speaker 3>did Herb Huffif, and it's hanging in his office right now.

0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.880
<v Speaker 3>Like FBI agent portraits is so good. So Herb Huffif.

0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.480
<v Speaker 3>He's a trial lawyer in Claremont, California, which is like

0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:37.560
<v Speaker 3>a postable suburb of La right foot of the San

0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.240
<v Speaker 3>Gabriel Mountains. Hafif said the portrait was a Christmas gift

0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.360
<v Speaker 3>from his employees. Quote those who claim it to be

0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.920
<v Speaker 3>a wonderful likeness I consider to be my friends. The

0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.560
<v Speaker 3>portrait forever memorializes me as a person in his early forties.

0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.520
<v Speaker 2>The vasculinity of that jut out.

0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:57.000
<v Speaker 3>So then, Tetro, it's like.

0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.400
<v Speaker 2>The author photos. Just take one of the forties. You'll

0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:00.640
<v Speaker 2>never see a updated.

0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:05.120
<v Speaker 3>Tetro sold a Modigliani drawing for sixteen hundred dollars at

0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:08.120
<v Speaker 3>an auction house in Santa Anna, but he got caught.

0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:08.720
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.920
<v Speaker 3>Tetro was asked if it was known by everyone at

0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.480
<v Speaker 3>the gallery that the Modigliani was fake, and this is

0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.520
<v Speaker 3>how he said it, and this is I love quoting

0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.400
<v Speaker 3>him because it's so meandering and bizarre. Okay, so here

0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:24.360
<v Speaker 3>it is. Quote, oh no, I showed it to another guy.

0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.400
<v Speaker 3>Before that, and I told him that I did it.

0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.600
<v Speaker 3>He was having an affair with Jack Warner's mistress, Jack

0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.559
<v Speaker 3>Warner of Warner Brothers, and she left a diamond ring

0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.080
<v Speaker 3>at the auction house that Jack Warner had given her.

0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.920
<v Speaker 3>It was a twenty four carrot d flawless, a very

0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:41.360
<v Speaker 3>valuable ring. And so he said to her, i'll sell it.

0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.800
<v Speaker 3>I'll give you five thousand dollars now, and he gave

0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.480
<v Speaker 3>her a bracelet and quote, I'll give you the rest

0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:47.200
<v Speaker 3>when I sell it.

0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:47.559
<v Speaker 2>Now.

0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.040
<v Speaker 3>This guy was a thief, this guy at the auction house,

0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.280
<v Speaker 3>and she never got a dime. This was worth at

0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:54.640
<v Speaker 3>least a quarter of a million dollars, this ring. And

0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 3>that's how he did everything. He would tell an old

0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.360
<v Speaker 3>lady who'd bring in a Tiffany lamp, oh, here's one

0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:01.680
<v Speaker 3>hundred dollars. I'll give you the rest. The lamp would

0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.480
<v Speaker 3>be worth ten thousand dollars, but she'd never see another penny.

0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:06.720
<v Speaker 3>That's how he did things, and he got away with it.

0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:08.720
<v Speaker 3>I didn't know any of this. When I walked into

0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.920
<v Speaker 3>the auction house. He got mad at a guy. He

0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 3>saw my Adigliani drawing and he said, oh, that's fake

0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:16.240
<v Speaker 3>and I told him my transmission broke and I needed

0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.640
<v Speaker 3>the money. The guy called me. He got a hold

0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.480
<v Speaker 3>of me, and he said, either you paint for me

0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:22.920
<v Speaker 3>or I'll break your hands. I'll cut your hands off.

0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:25.840
<v Speaker 2>He's like an eight year old telling his story. We know,

0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:27.400
<v Speaker 2>I was supposed to go to the partment. I went

0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.600
<v Speaker 2>to the part you know Billy's his father got divorced,

0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.040
<v Speaker 2>and that his new mom was over there. But she

0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:32.680
<v Speaker 2>told me it was a cold, so we went to McDonald's.

0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.600
<v Speaker 3>But then he yes or no, she just like was fake.

0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay, let me talk by Jack Warner's mistress. All right,

0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.000
<v Speaker 2>First and foremost, I can't answer this question until we

0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:41.480
<v Speaker 2>get down to.

0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.240
<v Speaker 3>He says, I painted for him so we wouldn't break

0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.560
<v Speaker 3>my hands. I did a lot of Robert Wood paintings

0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.480
<v Speaker 3>for him. Most people don't even know who Robert Wood was. Uh,

0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:55.800
<v Speaker 3>not Robert Woods, the Houston, Texas Texans wide receiver Robert Wood.

0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Now, but Robert Woods Johnson, the MPR donor.

0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:04.720
<v Speaker 3>He was an American landscape painter. So the Palm Springs

0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:09.080
<v Speaker 3>auction house owner had him make about thirty Robert Wood

0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.800
<v Speaker 3>knockoffs over a period of about two years under the

0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.080
<v Speaker 3>threat of I'll break your hands, and the guy also

0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.240
<v Speaker 3>had him sit in on auctions as a shill to

0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:18.080
<v Speaker 3>drive the price up.

0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:19.200
<v Speaker 2>Of course, yeah good.

0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:23.840
<v Speaker 3>So Tetro. He learned that the copies of Originals were

0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.360
<v Speaker 3>quote very marketable, and I was told that a lot

0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.400
<v Speaker 3>of these paintings were going to be sold as excellent

0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.800
<v Speaker 3>copies for people who couldn't afford Originals. Many people hang

0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.040
<v Speaker 3>reproductions in their homes and try to pass them off

0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.240
<v Speaker 3>as reel to their friends. It's snob appeal, which is

0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.560
<v Speaker 3>in the United States probably the number one reason people

0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:44.440
<v Speaker 3>by art who at the end, so he's like taking

0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.160
<v Speaker 3>it down or not. She's not doing rembrands, but he's

0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.840
<v Speaker 3>doing something that is more plausible for people. One of

0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.960
<v Speaker 3>his clients was James Stunt, a bon vivon and the

0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.480
<v Speaker 3>ex husband of Aris Petra Ecclestone, which.

0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:58.640
<v Speaker 2>Why don't I know the name ecclestone.

0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:02.840
<v Speaker 3>Well, she legitimately, as an aside, has that plastic surgery

0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.440
<v Speaker 3>face like no cap God bless. That looks like a

0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.080
<v Speaker 3>new kind of species.

0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:08.479
<v Speaker 2>Given the Santa Monica.

0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.360
<v Speaker 3>Clips the cheeks. Yeah it's wild, so Ecclestone. She was

0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.320
<v Speaker 3>born in London in nineteen eighty eight. She's the daughter

0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:19.880
<v Speaker 3>of model Slavica Raditch and English Formula one billionaire Bernie ecclestone.

0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:24.160
<v Speaker 3>That's how you know. So Petra and James they bought

0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.080
<v Speaker 3>the Aaron Spelling mansion in La.

0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh with a gift wrapper.

0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:29.680
<v Speaker 3>I was gonna say, that's the one with candy spellings

0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:30.280
<v Speaker 3>gift wrapping.

0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:32.600
<v Speaker 2>How do we all remember that?

0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:33.240
<v Speaker 3>All I remember?

0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:35.120
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't tell you anything about that house but other

0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.080
<v Speaker 2>than it has a gift wrapping exctly.

0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.160
<v Speaker 3>So what did James Stunt do for a living? He

0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:44.200
<v Speaker 3>was a gold bullion dealer, that's not hanky, and he

0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.040
<v Speaker 3>got he got all that like plastic surgery thing going

0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.800
<v Speaker 3>on to but his has that like slightly like melting

0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:55.360
<v Speaker 3>silly putty thing going God bless. I wish him the best, godless,

0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:59.360
<v Speaker 3>except not really. Because Stunt the gold bullion dealer. He

0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.320
<v Speaker 3>was one of a defendants in the biggest money laundering

0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.080
<v Speaker 3>trial in British criminal history. Oh good for it was

0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.720
<v Speaker 3>a pretty sophisticated two hundred and sixty six million pound operation.

0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.479
<v Speaker 3>Criminal cash was deposited in a bank account of a

0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:18.320
<v Speaker 3>Bradford gold dealer named Fowler Oldfield. Okay, right, So the

0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.840
<v Speaker 3>prosecutor said that they were eight defendants. They were all

0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.440
<v Speaker 3>part of a scheme to turn the proceeds of crime

0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:27.040
<v Speaker 3>into untraceable gold. Of course, so cash gets brought in

0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:29.919
<v Speaker 3>from all over the UK, goes to Fowler, Oldfield and

0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:34.560
<v Speaker 3>Stunt's business. They were business partners twenty fourteen to twenty sixteen,

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.320
<v Speaker 3>and the defendants hid the money's origin by laundering it

0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.920
<v Speaker 3>through a company bank account and using the proceeds to

0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.440
<v Speaker 3>buy gold which was shipped to Dubai. Says all of the.

0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.600
<v Speaker 2>Elements because is always on. Yeah, so that you know

0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:49.640
<v Speaker 2>right away.

0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.479
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So Stunt gets indicted. He puts his Tony Tetro

0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:58.840
<v Speaker 3>fakes into the collection of Prince now King Charles and

0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.359
<v Speaker 3>led him to believe He led the now King to

0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.240
<v Speaker 3>believe that they were authentic, and then he turned around

0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.439
<v Speaker 3>and he used those paintings as collateral to get a

0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:07.200
<v Speaker 3>massive loan.

0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:11.480
<v Speaker 2>So he duped the sitting head of the UK, like correct,

0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.240
<v Speaker 2>the King Charles, that cat that guy and then use

0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:15.960
<v Speaker 2>that to finance a massive loan.

0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.520
<v Speaker 3>Right, and Tony Tetro makes it really clear that he

0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.199
<v Speaker 3>wasn't aware of any of this stuff.

0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:21.119
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know.

0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.640
<v Speaker 3>So a portrait painted by Tetro. Would you usually sell

0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:25.439
<v Speaker 3>for like five k?

0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:26.879
<v Speaker 2>Dude? The pairs on these people.

0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:30.200
<v Speaker 3>I know, a reproduction of a Shagall, for example, would

0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.160
<v Speaker 3>be like two thousand, okay, and a small watercolor would

0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.520
<v Speaker 3>go for like three hundred bucks.

0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.000
<v Speaker 2>I do think his time would be worth more.

0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.720
<v Speaker 3>Tetro said, for three hundred For that, you get a Yamagatta,

0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.159
<v Speaker 3>and he's talking about hero Yamagatta. Japanese artists based in

0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:49.119
<v Speaker 3>La does like really vivid beautiful. So Tetro's forgery business expanded.

0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:51.879
<v Speaker 3>This is how he said quote. As time passed, I

0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.320
<v Speaker 3>became better, but I got so much more work that

0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.400
<v Speaker 3>I hired four people to work in the studio.

0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:57.720
<v Speaker 2>I was just about to ask.

0:18:57.840 --> 0:18:59.920
<v Speaker 3>Each of us had a different palette. We did parts

0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:01.919
<v Speaker 3>of the painting, each with his own part, and it

0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:05.040
<v Speaker 3>worked out well. We did ninety five paintings big old

0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.240
<v Speaker 3>Masters for a Texas billionaire. It took five or six years.

0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:10.479
<v Speaker 3>But now I have a new customer, a friend of his,

0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.080
<v Speaker 3>another billionaire, and that's why I was working today the

0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:13.520
<v Speaker 3>whole day.

0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.640
<v Speaker 2>So he became like the Candy Wiley or the Picassos,

0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:17.400
<v Speaker 2>like I've got my.

0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:21.119
<v Speaker 3>Studio turn these out let's take a break. When we

0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.720
<v Speaker 3>come back, we'll see what forgeries old Tony had cooking

0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:45.440
<v Speaker 3>out zarin.

0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:46.359
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:51.120
<v Speaker 3>Hello. When we left off, Tony Tetro was churning out

0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:54.439
<v Speaker 3>fake masters, selling them to random millionaires and billionaires and

0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:55.880
<v Speaker 3>auction houses.

0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:57.240
<v Speaker 2>Fast as a butter maker makes butter.

0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:59.879
<v Speaker 3>Exactly. I want to go to these Texas billionaires houses

0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.120
<v Speaker 3>and find out if they've got that. You know, First

0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:02.960
<v Speaker 3>of all, I really don't.

0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.320
<v Speaker 2>I was just about to say, you said that sentence.

0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:07.760
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, you are a bunch of SAPs, So I

0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:09.200
<v Speaker 2>would want to see if I wouldn't want.

0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.000
<v Speaker 3>To see, like where the how they brag about it

0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:13.919
<v Speaker 3>and what anyway, So one of the auction houses that

0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.800
<v Speaker 3>he sold to was in Sherman Oaks, California, and it

0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.680
<v Speaker 3>was owned by Marc Henry Sowiki. March of eighty nine,

0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:24.080
<v Speaker 3>Siwiki gets charged with ten counts of grand theft and

0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.880
<v Speaker 3>art forgery. We a whack bubba ba busted. He made

0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:31.320
<v Speaker 3>a plea bargain in exchange for three years probation, a

0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.920
<v Speaker 3>thousand hours of community service, and seventy eight thousand dollars

0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:38.600
<v Speaker 3>in restitution. Siwiki agreed to wear a wire in an

0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:43.359
<v Speaker 3>effort to catch Tetro. Oh, so siwiki he arranged a

0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:47.920
<v Speaker 3>meeting with Tetro at Tetro's condo. They chatted about mutual friends,

0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:52.679
<v Speaker 3>art debts, gossip, what have you. Siwiki got Tetro on

0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:57.040
<v Speaker 3>tape talking about he quote did a chagole. When siwiki

0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.920
<v Speaker 3>asked if other Chagall paintings were in the works, Tetro said, yeah,

0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:04.440
<v Speaker 3>it's all on tape. Yeah, in an interview. This is

0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.080
<v Speaker 3>how Tetro put it. It's a sad thing to say,

0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.119
<v Speaker 3>but I learned of Chagall's death because all the messages

0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:12.600
<v Speaker 3>on my answering machine were from art dealers trying to

0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:16.520
<v Speaker 3>contact me requesting Chagall paintings and lithographs. That's when I

0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:18.840
<v Speaker 3>knew I could do very successful in this. In fact,

0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.680
<v Speaker 3>I bought a Rolls Royce. The next day. Everybody got

0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.960
<v Speaker 3>mad at me because I doubled my prices. So He's

0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:27.520
<v Speaker 3>just like, yeah, he asked me for a Shagall. Let

0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:29.639
<v Speaker 3>me tell you why, because I'm the best at it.

0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:31.320
<v Speaker 2>Shagall dropped and all of a sudden, I was like, whoa,

0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:32.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm daddy about to make money.

0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:37.280
<v Speaker 3>So siwiki, he testified that he saw Tetro practicing the

0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:40.720
<v Speaker 3>signatures of the original artists on scrap paper and notepads

0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.360
<v Speaker 3>and then like on the backs of damaged artwork.

0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:46.080
<v Speaker 2>But he doesn't do that. I mean my dark chest

0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:47.640
<v Speaker 2>Brock is work.

0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:51.800
<v Speaker 3>So siwiki. He told authorities that he did about one

0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:55.920
<v Speaker 3>hundred thousand dollars of business with Tetro between eighty four

0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.240
<v Speaker 3>and eighty nine. He sold hundreds of works by Tetro

0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:03.960
<v Speaker 3>passed off his Ali Mirro Yamagatta. So he's just churning.

0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:04.720
<v Speaker 2>Smart market though.

0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:07.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Well, as a result of this recording, though, Tetro's

0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:12.080
<v Speaker 3>condo was raided by county investigators. He was arrested and

0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:15.639
<v Speaker 3>charged with thirty eight felony counts of forging lithographs of

0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:19.920
<v Speaker 3>paintings by Mark Schagal Mirro Rockwell.

0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:23.240
<v Speaker 2>He's doing Norman Rockwells singer rock Well.

0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:29.399
<v Speaker 3>Someone was watching him, twenty nine counts of forging Hero Yamagata.

0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:34.920
<v Speaker 3>Remember Gary Helton, the La County District Attorney's investigators. Yeah,

0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:38.480
<v Speaker 3>a little call back. He conducted a sixteen person raid

0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:42.720
<v Speaker 3>on the condo. Tetro's lithographs and paintings were loaded into

0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.800
<v Speaker 3>one van and a steakbed truck, just like there were

0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:49.280
<v Speaker 3>so many this like this condo was like three levels.

0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:51.840
<v Speaker 2>When you said steakbed truck for a moment, because it

0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:54.240
<v Speaker 2>was you saying it, I had to picture a truck

0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:56.080
<v Speaker 2>with a bed that was a stake.

0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:58.720
<v Speaker 3>With a giant curtains, the wooden fence.

0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Did you pull out No, total.

0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:03.439
<v Speaker 3>That the truck of the bed at the bed of

0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:08.680
<v Speaker 3>the truck. But it's a cartoon stake.

0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Cartoons steak. There was a cartoon wolf looking at it

0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:12.280
<v Speaker 2>like I'm gonna.

0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:15.920
<v Speaker 3>Eat Yeah, So yeah, they just throw it. They threw

0:23:15.960 --> 0:23:19.760
<v Speaker 3>it on a comically large cartoon steak. Helton said he

0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:23.280
<v Speaker 3>found Tetro's pieces on display at the Carol Lawrence Galleries

0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:26.000
<v Speaker 3>in Beverly Hills, Studio forty seven in New York, and

0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:28.640
<v Speaker 3>at galleries in Japan. So he's like, I have scoured

0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:33.240
<v Speaker 3>the earth during the raid Cleveland. Some of Tetro's Yamagotta

0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:37.960
<v Speaker 3>pieces were overlooked, weren't h Tetro turned around and sold

0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:41.200
<v Speaker 3>those to old friends, including Ken Kettner, a mortgage bank.

0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:43.760
<v Speaker 3>What are you gonna get right? Here's what Ketner had

0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:46.159
<v Speaker 3>to say. I have a couple of real chagalls and

0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:48.520
<v Speaker 3>some of Tony's chagalls, and I have a lot of

0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:51.119
<v Speaker 3>fun with them. No one can tell the difference. I

0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:53.840
<v Speaker 3>also have a genuine Yamagatda that cost me seventy five

0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:56.879
<v Speaker 3>hundred dollars. After his arrest, Tony sold me five or

0:23:56.920 --> 0:23:59.159
<v Speaker 3>six of his Yama goddas for one thousand dollars. For

0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:02.280
<v Speaker 3>all of them aren't bad and they were definitely purchased

0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:04.360
<v Speaker 3>as tetros cat nern.

0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Just sounds like that guy's a liar.

0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:07.480
<v Speaker 3>I have a lot of fun with it.

0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:10.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, fun with it. I just lay down on

0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:13.160
<v Speaker 2>my bed. I cover myself with them on paintings.

0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:18.720
<v Speaker 3>Giggles. Why were some of the pieces overlooked? You're wondering, Well.

0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:21.600
<v Speaker 2>Were some of the pieces over Let me refer to

0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:22.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm wondering.

0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:25.880
<v Speaker 3>Let me refer you to one of your favorite Reddit posts.

0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:28.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh of course, please the one where the.

0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:30.600
<v Speaker 3>Person is living with their girlfriend in a house that

0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:33.119
<v Speaker 3>the girlfriend owns, and they find out the girlfriend has

0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:34.000
<v Speaker 3>a secret room.

0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Actually my.

0:24:38.800 --> 0:24:42.320
<v Speaker 3>Secret room, living together for three years. Didn't know about

0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:43.160
<v Speaker 3>the secret room.

0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:45.240
<v Speaker 2>How I love it?

0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:46.080
<v Speaker 3>I know you do well.

0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:52.040
<v Speaker 2>That in the beans and these are my favorites. So

0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:55.000
<v Speaker 2>you ask, is it my birthday?

0:24:56.119 --> 0:24:59.360
<v Speaker 3>I want you to picture it? You are an official

0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:03.920
<v Speaker 3>Tony Tetro copy of a Salvador Dolli piece. You've been

0:25:04.000 --> 0:25:06.880
<v Speaker 3>in this dark, secret room in Tetro's house for a while.

0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:10.400
<v Speaker 3>You normally hear laughter and funky disco music coming through

0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:13.520
<v Speaker 3>the walls. Not lately. The other day you heard a

0:25:13.680 --> 0:25:17.560
<v Speaker 3>terrible racket, a bunch of heavy footsteps, drawers being opened

0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:20.480
<v Speaker 3>and slammed, piles of stuff being pushed off a desk

0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:24.840
<v Speaker 3>to the ground, breaking glass, wallpaper being torn from the walls.

0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:28.880
<v Speaker 3>You were terrified. After what seemed like forever, the noise stopped.

0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:31.520
<v Speaker 3>A couple of days went by. Then you heard it,

0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:36.040
<v Speaker 3>the sound of Tony Tetro's feet, your papa. You hear

0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:38.119
<v Speaker 3>him push the button to open the door to his

0:25:38.200 --> 0:25:40.800
<v Speaker 3>secret room, where you and your scores of other fakes

0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:43.960
<v Speaker 3>rest quietly on the walls and stack neatly on the floor.

0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:47.800
<v Speaker 3>The door creaks opened, and there's Tony Tetro. He and

0:25:47.880 --> 0:25:50.520
<v Speaker 3>a friend and a crew of six day laborers rush

0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:53.120
<v Speaker 3>into the room and scoop up the paintings you included.

0:25:53.720 --> 0:25:58.160
<v Speaker 3>Tony Tetro grabs you himself. You try to whisper to him,

0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:02.920
<v Speaker 3>I least you dann whisper at zaren whisper, I missed you, daddy,

0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:03.159
<v Speaker 3>do it?

0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:04.399
<v Speaker 2>I missed you daddy.

0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:08.159
<v Speaker 3>There it is uh, you go unheard. But as you

0:26:08.320 --> 0:26:10.560
<v Speaker 3>as you get tossed into a truck and you peel

0:26:10.640 --> 0:26:12.960
<v Speaker 3>out into the cool night, you know you are safe.

0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:18.879
<v Speaker 3>Yama Goatta thought Tetro's copies weren't that bad quote. I

0:26:19.080 --> 0:26:21.840
<v Speaker 3>just don't know why he doesn't establish his own way.

0:26:22.440 --> 0:26:25.359
<v Speaker 3>Having talent to paint in general is one thing, but

0:26:25.600 --> 0:26:29.320
<v Speaker 3>artists must also have a passion for creation before painting exists.

0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:32.960
<v Speaker 3>I paint a very tranquil image. It represents my feelings,

0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:36.400
<v Speaker 3>my senses, my memories, and you can't just copy those.

0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:39.359
<v Speaker 3>Not being able to copy my passion and my energy

0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:43.320
<v Speaker 3>means people buyers can't find it in his copies. Yes,

0:26:43.480 --> 0:26:47.520
<v Speaker 3>hero Yamagata, I'm right there with you. That's my feeling.

0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:49.720
<v Speaker 2>As a copy I have to dig it.

0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:55.160
<v Speaker 3>So according to Tetro quote, I enjoyed doing a renoir

0:26:55.359 --> 0:26:58.560
<v Speaker 3>and using his pastel colors, learning how he would fuse

0:26:58.640 --> 0:27:01.639
<v Speaker 3>everything around the subject until everything was blurred except the

0:27:01.720 --> 0:27:04.720
<v Speaker 3>subject's face. Then he'd put a splash of color over here,

0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:08.000
<v Speaker 3>and I'd understand why he did it. I didn't understand

0:27:08.000 --> 0:27:10.000
<v Speaker 3>why he did it just by looking at it. I

0:27:10.080 --> 0:27:12.800
<v Speaker 3>never really had a tremendous desire to be a famous artist,

0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:16.800
<v Speaker 3>but I enjoyed painting and I enjoyed copying. Yeah, there

0:27:16.840 --> 0:27:17.040
<v Speaker 3>it is.

0:27:17.040 --> 0:27:19.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you can't really argue with his logic. Look,

0:27:19.640 --> 0:27:21.159
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to be at the top of the mountain.

0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:21.880
<v Speaker 2>I just like walking.

0:27:21.920 --> 0:27:24.480
<v Speaker 3>He didn't like being called a forger though, Well, yeah,

0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:28.560
<v Speaker 3>he said quote forgery indicates an intent to defraud. And

0:27:28.680 --> 0:27:33.200
<v Speaker 3>I never sold anything as real. I prefer the term reproductions.

0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:36.600
<v Speaker 3>In my definition, an exact copy as close to original

0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:39.160
<v Speaker 3>as you can do. Every one of my friends knew

0:27:39.200 --> 0:27:41.240
<v Speaker 3>what I did. You know, what do you do for

0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:44.800
<v Speaker 3>a living? I copy masters. I even had business cards

0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:48.399
<v Speaker 3>which said Anthony tetro Art reproductions. I sold them as

0:27:48.440 --> 0:27:51.680
<v Speaker 3>reproductions or emulations done by me. I was very specific

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:52.040
<v Speaker 3>about it.

0:27:52.960 --> 0:27:53.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't believe that.

0:27:54.000 --> 0:27:54.720
<v Speaker 3>I don't need that.

0:27:54.880 --> 0:27:56.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, okay, so your friends know this. Do your

0:27:57.160 --> 0:27:59.399
<v Speaker 2>clients notice the ones who are paying the money. I

0:27:59.520 --> 0:28:01.200
<v Speaker 2>understand that you got word around.

0:28:01.280 --> 0:28:04.480
<v Speaker 3>It could be discovered in the Grand tradition.

0:28:04.640 --> 0:28:06.240
<v Speaker 2>Are you lying by a mission? Sirs?

0:28:06.520 --> 0:28:11.000
<v Speaker 3>Question of all of our rude rude criminals on this show.

0:28:11.840 --> 0:28:14.560
<v Speaker 2>He wrote a memoir, of course, the most literate group

0:28:14.640 --> 0:28:15.600
<v Speaker 2>in the world, by.

0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:18.560
<v Speaker 3>The way, and of course it's called con Slash Artist,

0:28:18.800 --> 0:28:22.240
<v Speaker 3>The Life and Crimes of the World's Greatest Art Forger. Now,

0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:24.240
<v Speaker 3>this man just said he's not a forger, but he

0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:24.919
<v Speaker 3>titled his.

0:28:27.000 --> 0:28:27.119
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:31.359
<v Speaker 3>It was co written by gi Imperio Ambrosi, which is

0:28:31.400 --> 0:28:32.040
<v Speaker 3>a great name.

0:28:32.160 --> 0:28:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Totally, I'm all about that. I come across Jimpero.

0:28:34.720 --> 0:28:38.920
<v Speaker 3>Ambrosi said, quote, you always think of the forger duping

0:28:39.000 --> 0:28:41.600
<v Speaker 3>the client, but in this case the client was the dealer,

0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:44.680
<v Speaker 3>and the dealer would commission him to do it. They

0:28:44.840 --> 0:28:47.680
<v Speaker 3>just say, hey, I need fifty picassos, give me twenty moros.

0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:48.760
<v Speaker 3>I need ten dollis.

0:28:49.320 --> 0:28:51.200
<v Speaker 2>So the client was the dupe.

0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:53.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he was saying that it's all on the all

0:28:53.280 --> 0:28:56.600
<v Speaker 3>on the art dealers. This is Tetro said. I started

0:28:56.640 --> 0:28:59.400
<v Speaker 3>making a lot of lithographs of some other artists whose

0:28:59.480 --> 0:29:02.040
<v Speaker 3>name I can't say. I made so many of his

0:29:02.200 --> 0:29:04.560
<v Speaker 3>lithographs and I sold them to this big art dealer.

0:29:04.960 --> 0:29:07.080
<v Speaker 3>He sold them to galleries all over the place, and

0:29:07.120 --> 0:29:09.560
<v Speaker 3>then he the original artist, found out I did them.

0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:12.160
<v Speaker 3>He went to all the art dealers and galleries and

0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:13.840
<v Speaker 3>went out of his way to tell them to watch

0:29:13.920 --> 0:29:16.200
<v Speaker 3>out for me. Then they contact me and wanted me

0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:18.040
<v Speaker 3>to work for them. That's how it really started.

0:29:18.320 --> 0:29:19.560
<v Speaker 2>And why would Banksy do that?

0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:22.600
<v Speaker 3>I love that he won't tell them, you know, to

0:29:22.720 --> 0:29:23.560
<v Speaker 3>remain nameless.

0:29:23.680 --> 0:29:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, now I'm curious who that is so much.

0:29:26.560 --> 0:29:30.480
<v Speaker 3>Tetro a fixture in La. He cruises around and either

0:29:30.600 --> 0:29:33.720
<v Speaker 3>is Rolls Royce Silver Spirit or he's Tutelin and one

0:29:33.760 --> 0:29:36.240
<v Speaker 3>of the two Ferraris he owned. He had a Lamborghini.

0:29:36.600 --> 0:29:39.080
<v Speaker 2>Does he live? Do we know anything about the identifying

0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:40.000
<v Speaker 2>aspects of these cars?

0:29:40.240 --> 0:29:43.520
<v Speaker 3>Well he is a little bit. So he owned multiple

0:29:43.720 --> 0:29:47.000
<v Speaker 3>exotic cars. He lived in that custom decorated tri level

0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:50.040
<v Speaker 3>condo in Claremont. He whisked away all the time to

0:29:50.240 --> 0:29:54.240
<v Speaker 3>roam Paris, money Carlo. It wasn't really the life of an.

0:29:54.320 --> 0:29:57.240
<v Speaker 2>Art forger No or like Robin Leech.

0:29:57.400 --> 0:29:59.480
<v Speaker 3>There's money in it, but not that much money. So

0:29:59.640 --> 0:30:04.360
<v Speaker 3>rumor starts circulating that he's a drug dealer. This is how.

0:30:05.920 --> 0:30:06.520
<v Speaker 2>Talk.

0:30:06.680 --> 0:30:11.040
<v Speaker 3>It's funds to it. So he said, quote, I even

0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:13.480
<v Speaker 3>had a friend, this girl, one of my friends would say,

0:30:13.560 --> 0:30:15.680
<v Speaker 3>oh yeah, I get all my drugs from Tony, and

0:30:15.760 --> 0:30:17.920
<v Speaker 3>I'd go, why the hell would you say something like that?

0:30:18.400 --> 0:30:20.640
<v Speaker 3>Then I'd get people calling me for cocaine and I'd

0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:22.960
<v Speaker 3>be all, why are you calling me? I don't deal drugs,

0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:25.120
<v Speaker 3>and they'd go, oh yeah, and then click they'd hang

0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:27.440
<v Speaker 3>up and be mad at me. This one time, this big,

0:30:27.680 --> 0:30:30.320
<v Speaker 3>big drug dealer, we were in a bar and this

0:30:30.480 --> 0:30:33.120
<v Speaker 3>is called Magnolia's Peach and where we walked out and

0:30:33.200 --> 0:30:35.240
<v Speaker 3>he says, Tony, I want to show you something, and

0:30:35.320 --> 0:30:37.560
<v Speaker 3>he opened up the trunk of his Toyota Tursell. I

0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:39.920
<v Speaker 3>think it was the first time they made the Toyota Trussell.

0:30:40.120 --> 0:30:42.000
<v Speaker 3>Do they still make them? I don't know, but it

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:44.920
<v Speaker 3>was the most inexpensive Toyota ever made, I don't know,

0:30:45.480 --> 0:30:47.800
<v Speaker 3>and it was small. He opened up the trunk and

0:30:47.840 --> 0:30:49.800
<v Speaker 3>there was nothing but bricks of cocaine in there in

0:30:49.880 --> 0:30:52.160
<v Speaker 3>a car that costs five thousand and seven thousand, And

0:30:52.280 --> 0:30:54.160
<v Speaker 3>I go, why are you showing this to me? And

0:30:54.280 --> 0:30:57.440
<v Speaker 3>he goes and he goes, oh, I don't know. I

0:30:57.480 --> 0:30:59.080
<v Speaker 3>thought you might like it. By the way, if I

0:30:59.120 --> 0:31:01.880
<v Speaker 3>don't make it home, you're dead. Why would I say

0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:03.720
<v Speaker 3>a word? But they got a kick out of it

0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:06.480
<v Speaker 3>because I got all the heat, just going.

0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:08.240
<v Speaker 2>Through the world. Why are you asking him? Why are

0:31:08.320 --> 0:31:10.120
<v Speaker 2>you Why is this happening here?

0:31:10.360 --> 0:31:12.040
<v Speaker 3>He's so unhinged to me, you start.

0:31:11.880 --> 0:31:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Making the Toyota Choseell, by the way, was that.

0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:18.160
<v Speaker 3>He had no visible source of interest, A naive.

0:31:18.080 --> 0:31:20.200
<v Speaker 2>Child wandering innocently through the world.

0:31:20.080 --> 0:31:23.520
<v Speaker 3>No inheritance, no apparent career. He's not a lot of winner,

0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:27.960
<v Speaker 3>so he just has questions. I would automatically assume drugs,

0:31:28.600 --> 0:31:30.760
<v Speaker 3>and I feel like saying that all your friends call

0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:32.440
<v Speaker 3>you asking for drugs.

0:31:32.200 --> 0:31:33.160
<v Speaker 2>Could they be a jiggowe?

0:31:33.280 --> 0:31:35.200
<v Speaker 3>But you don't have them. It's a cover for when

0:31:35.240 --> 0:31:38.640
<v Speaker 3>you get busted completely. It's like his paintings. They're reproductions.

0:31:38.680 --> 0:31:40.080
<v Speaker 3>People are calling me by accident, and.

0:31:40.080 --> 0:31:42.520
<v Speaker 2>Its happened to always be at the junction of crime.

0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:45.040
<v Speaker 2>There are two crimes tending together. What happened to be there?

0:31:45.120 --> 0:31:47.520
<v Speaker 3>I didn't want that guy to drive a terceill of

0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:48.800
<v Speaker 3>coke tiles like me.

0:31:49.120 --> 0:31:51.480
<v Speaker 2>He just showed up. I barely knew the guy his.

0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:55.080
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So for this is a Tetris says again. For

0:31:55.200 --> 0:31:58.160
<v Speaker 3>well over ten years, every cop in this valley and

0:31:58.400 --> 0:32:01.320
<v Speaker 3>many people who didn't know me person, we're certain I

0:32:01.400 --> 0:32:03.520
<v Speaker 3>was a drug dealer. I must have heard it myself

0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:07.440
<v Speaker 3>conservatively three hundred times. And the more I defended myself,

0:32:07.520 --> 0:32:09.960
<v Speaker 3>the more I wasn't believed. Drive down the street in

0:32:10.000 --> 0:32:12.360
<v Speaker 3>a Ferrari and a cop is certain you're a drug dealer,

0:32:12.560 --> 0:32:16.640
<v Speaker 3>and you're constantly harassed, constantly getting tickets for nothing, constantly

0:32:16.680 --> 0:32:19.720
<v Speaker 3>getting your car searched. So there was some satisfaction, even

0:32:19.800 --> 0:32:22.880
<v Speaker 3>some pride when I was arrested that they finally, these

0:32:22.960 --> 0:32:28.000
<v Speaker 3>idiots knew that I was an artist. Final I got

0:32:28.120 --> 0:32:32.400
<v Speaker 3>fosted for the right thing. Enter Mark Manning, chief press

0:32:32.440 --> 0:32:37.760
<v Speaker 3>agent for Exclusive News Relations of Los Angeles. Quote, we

0:32:37.880 --> 0:32:42.160
<v Speaker 3>specialize in celebrity repositioning people who have been misunderstood by

0:32:42.240 --> 0:32:43.320
<v Speaker 3>the public and the media.

0:32:43.520 --> 0:32:44.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm a spin doctor.

0:32:44.600 --> 0:32:47.400
<v Speaker 3>So they repped Tetro. But there was a fee, of course,

0:32:47.440 --> 0:32:50.240
<v Speaker 3>of course he paid them with an oil of Winston Churchill.

0:32:50.600 --> 0:32:54.000
<v Speaker 3>Wait what, and then a percentage of the proceeds from

0:32:54.040 --> 0:32:56.239
<v Speaker 3>the sale of a replica of a nineteen fifty eight

0:32:56.320 --> 0:33:00.720
<v Speaker 3>Ferrari Testosa racecar that Tetro spent six years and several

0:33:00.800 --> 0:33:01.800
<v Speaker 3>thousand dollars building.

0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:05.320
<v Speaker 2>So he not only makes fake paintings, he also replicates

0:33:05.480 --> 0:33:06.719
<v Speaker 2>ferraris exactly.

0:33:06.840 --> 0:33:10.280
<v Speaker 3>So there were only two TR fifty eights built and

0:33:10.480 --> 0:33:14.040
<v Speaker 3>neither of them survived racing. So Tetro he purchased an

0:33:14.080 --> 0:33:17.120
<v Speaker 3>old Ferrari streetcar to get the chassis, the engine and

0:33:17.160 --> 0:33:20.400
<v Speaker 3>the transmission. Then he shortened and narrowed the frame and

0:33:20.520 --> 0:33:22.920
<v Speaker 3>restored the engine to racing conditions. This is how he

0:33:23.000 --> 0:33:26.440
<v Speaker 3>said it quote. I went to finite detail in recreating

0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:29.680
<v Speaker 3>everything exactly the way it was originally. It is a

0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:33.600
<v Speaker 3>perfect recreation. So, like you're saying, just like his paintings,

0:33:33.760 --> 0:33:37.800
<v Speaker 3>he fakes a Ferrari. Yeah, so he sold that and

0:33:37.880 --> 0:33:41.200
<v Speaker 3>that's how he paid for the press agent back. You know,

0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:45.400
<v Speaker 3>we get back there. Tetro pleads not guilty to conspiracy

0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:48.720
<v Speaker 3>and forgery at a preliminary hearing where the siwiki tape

0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:51.600
<v Speaker 3>was played. We can make it wat yep. On June seventh,

0:33:51.760 --> 0:33:55.560
<v Speaker 3>nineteen ninety one, mistrial was declared after the jurors of

0:33:55.600 --> 0:33:58.760
<v Speaker 3>the LA Superior Court said to Judge John Henny that

0:33:58.840 --> 0:34:01.000
<v Speaker 3>there was a deadlock and they were unable to reach

0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:03.400
<v Speaker 3>a verdict. So the trial gone on for a month

0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:08.000
<v Speaker 3>and they deliberated for seventeen hours. According to Deputy District

0:34:08.040 --> 0:34:11.800
<v Speaker 3>Attorney Riva Getz quote. Obviously, I'm very sorry that the

0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:14.600
<v Speaker 3>jurors could not agree on a verdict, but my confidence

0:34:14.680 --> 0:34:15.640
<v Speaker 3>in the case remains.

0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:16.759
<v Speaker 2>That's why they call me.

0:34:18.440 --> 0:34:19.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh and then went on to say that some of

0:34:20.000 --> 0:34:22.319
<v Speaker 3>the jurors quote felt the tape was not as clear

0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:25.120
<v Speaker 3>as they would have liked. H So the Suwiki tape

0:34:25.160 --> 0:34:28.680
<v Speaker 3>didn't bring what they thought it would. As for Tetro quote,

0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:32.360
<v Speaker 3>the prosecution would put ads in the paper looking for victims.

0:34:32.600 --> 0:34:34.640
<v Speaker 3>Did you buy a fake Schagal? Did you buy a

0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:37.200
<v Speaker 3>fake Dolly? Did you buy a fake Moro? Did you

0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:39.480
<v Speaker 3>buy a fake Rembrand? Did you buy fake anything?

0:34:39.719 --> 0:34:40.040
<v Speaker 2>Sucker?

0:34:40.239 --> 0:34:42.440
<v Speaker 3>And so we expected like five to ten people to

0:34:42.520 --> 0:34:45.359
<v Speaker 3>come forward grieving. Nobody came. I had a hung jury.

0:34:45.840 --> 0:34:46.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

0:34:46.520 --> 0:34:48.239
<v Speaker 3>So he may have had a hung jury then, but

0:34:48.400 --> 0:34:51.279
<v Speaker 3>his legal woes were far from over. Let's take a

0:34:51.400 --> 0:34:55.400
<v Speaker 3>break and let these ads soothe our souls. When we

0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:57.600
<v Speaker 3>come back, I'll tell you what happens next. For old Tone,

0:34:57.680 --> 0:35:22.880
<v Speaker 3>look welcome. Hey, what's it so Tony Tetrom He got

0:35:22.920 --> 0:35:25.719
<v Speaker 3>a hung jury, but the prosecutors wouldn't give up. They

0:35:25.840 --> 0:35:29.120
<v Speaker 3>retried him. He was released on ten thousand dollars bail

0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:31.759
<v Speaker 3>with orders to return to court on July first for

0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:35.680
<v Speaker 3>further motions. So in that time he just liquidates his

0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:38.920
<v Speaker 3>assets in order to fund his defense. He sold the

0:35:39.000 --> 0:35:42.879
<v Speaker 3>exotic cars, he sold the tri level condo. He moved

0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:45.880
<v Speaker 3>to an apartment in Upland, California, which is maybe not

0:35:45.960 --> 0:35:51.160
<v Speaker 3>as pascious. Clear he started he started driving a Honda Civic. Oh,

0:35:51.920 --> 0:35:53.560
<v Speaker 3>life was different, a little bit different.

0:35:53.719 --> 0:35:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Was this like a recreated Honda Ci to the details?

0:35:58.400 --> 0:36:02.840
<v Speaker 3>It was on like you know, a Hugo's train. So

0:36:03.080 --> 0:36:04.719
<v Speaker 3>here's what Tetra said about this time.

0:36:04.880 --> 0:36:05.839
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, so good.

0:36:06.000 --> 0:36:09.560
<v Speaker 3>Quote. Robert Shapiro was my attorney. Oh yes, I was

0:36:09.640 --> 0:36:12.880
<v Speaker 3>his client. Just before oj I canned him, he wanted

0:36:12.920 --> 0:36:14.640
<v Speaker 3>to just plea me to the judge. I said, no,

0:36:14.800 --> 0:36:16.800
<v Speaker 3>I want my day in court. I'll tell you a

0:36:16.840 --> 0:36:18.880
<v Speaker 3>tidbit of info that you'd probably never get in the

0:36:18.920 --> 0:36:23.800
<v Speaker 3>Australian press. Bob Shapiro, he never ever ever went to trial.

0:36:24.000 --> 0:36:26.759
<v Speaker 3>His thing. All over the US, every attorney knew that

0:36:26.920 --> 0:36:29.600
<v Speaker 3>Bob's thing was he would plea bargain his clients. That

0:36:29.719 --> 0:36:32.840
<v Speaker 3>was his thing. Oj originally went to Howard Wiseman, the

0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:35.080
<v Speaker 3>best attorney in LA. He's the one who got Bob

0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:37.719
<v Speaker 3>Dolorian off, the guy who made cars. Then OJ went

0:36:37.760 --> 0:36:40.480
<v Speaker 3>to Bob Shapiro, and Shapiro smelled fame and fortune and

0:36:40.560 --> 0:36:42.440
<v Speaker 3>got his dream team together and they went to trial.

0:36:42.680 --> 0:36:44.160
<v Speaker 3>But he wasn't going to go to trial for me.

0:36:44.640 --> 0:36:47.080
<v Speaker 3>I wanted my day in court. But anyway, they charged

0:36:47.160 --> 0:36:51.120
<v Speaker 3>me for everything. Two thousand dollars for incomplete telephone calls, incomplete,

0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:54.520
<v Speaker 3>not counting the completed calls. I spent thousands of dollars

0:36:54.600 --> 0:36:57.040
<v Speaker 3>for parking to go to court, and they just hosed me.

0:36:57.360 --> 0:36:59.239
<v Speaker 3>I didn't make a penny for four and a half years.

0:36:59.280 --> 0:37:02.040
<v Speaker 3>All I did was spend, spend, spend. They'd say, Oh,

0:37:02.080 --> 0:37:04.640
<v Speaker 3>I need another twenty thousand dollars, I need another thirty

0:37:04.680 --> 0:37:07.160
<v Speaker 3>thousand dollars for this and this. So half a million

0:37:07.200 --> 0:37:09.719
<v Speaker 3>dollars later, I'm sitting there. I have a hung jury

0:37:09.800 --> 0:37:11.759
<v Speaker 3>and they're going to try me again. I got no money,

0:37:11.800 --> 0:37:13.759
<v Speaker 3>I have no work. So they offered me a year.

0:37:13.840 --> 0:37:16.960
<v Speaker 3>I said I'll take it. If i'd have gone with Shapiro,

0:37:17.040 --> 0:37:18.359
<v Speaker 3>he would have gotten me a year and a half.

0:37:18.440 --> 0:37:20.240
<v Speaker 3>I should have done that. I would have kept everything.

0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:21.120
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:37:21.280 --> 0:37:23.040
<v Speaker 3>So he never listened to Bob Shapiro.

0:37:24.200 --> 0:37:26.759
<v Speaker 2>What a weird assessment of the American legals. I know,

0:37:27.200 --> 0:37:29.880
<v Speaker 2>I know, I can't argue with them, but totally so.

0:37:30.320 --> 0:37:32.919
<v Speaker 3>He may have been living in Upland and tootling around

0:37:33.000 --> 0:37:35.759
<v Speaker 3>in a Honda, but he kept his home decor game tight.

0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:40.680
<v Speaker 3>He had a large framed paper sculpture, an original by

0:37:40.760 --> 0:37:43.319
<v Speaker 3>Bill Mack, over his sofa. Have you heard of Bill Mack?

0:37:43.400 --> 0:37:43.920
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't think so.

0:37:44.120 --> 0:37:46.680
<v Speaker 3>I hadn't either, So I checked out his website and

0:37:46.800 --> 0:37:51.080
<v Speaker 3>I just can't. I can't build Mac. Here's this about

0:37:51.160 --> 0:37:54.279
<v Speaker 3>me on the home page of his website. Bill Mack

0:37:54.400 --> 0:37:57.319
<v Speaker 3>has no mentors. There is nowhere to go to learn

0:37:57.400 --> 0:38:02.040
<v Speaker 3>his sculpture techniques. No one teaches his sculpture technique. Sculptor

0:38:02.120 --> 0:38:04.880
<v Speaker 3>Bill Mack works in such a rare art form that

0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:07.319
<v Speaker 3>coming up with a name to describe it has been

0:38:07.360 --> 0:38:11.279
<v Speaker 3>only slightly less arduous than creating the art itself. Bill

0:38:11.480 --> 0:38:15.719
<v Speaker 3>Mack Sculpture, simply put, is emotional elegance defined in sculpture.

0:38:16.080 --> 0:38:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Emotional please emotional.

0:38:19.680 --> 0:38:22.880
<v Speaker 3>Please go look at Bill Max's website. Emotional, Yeah, look

0:38:22.920 --> 0:38:23.440
<v Speaker 3>at his website.

0:38:23.560 --> 0:38:25.879
<v Speaker 2>I handle this much emotional, can't. It's going to blow

0:38:25.920 --> 0:38:29.279
<v Speaker 2>your hands like inelegant emotion it's just like, I.

0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:33.640
<v Speaker 3>Just can't just screaming, Tetro. Could He had him over

0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:40.000
<v Speaker 3>the a permit. He also had a faux lalique crystal sculpture. Yeah,

0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:42.759
<v Speaker 3>he had recast bronzes that he had traded for one

0:38:42.800 --> 0:38:45.440
<v Speaker 3>of his chagalls. And he had a lithograph that had

0:38:45.480 --> 0:38:49.760
<v Speaker 3>a genuine John Lennon autograph on it. All right, so Tetro.

0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:53.120
<v Speaker 3>He also had an enormous painting of the Death of

0:38:53.480 --> 0:38:55.880
<v Speaker 3>d'Artagnan that he paid one thousand dollars for.

0:38:56.760 --> 0:38:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Huh, the Death of d'Artagnan. Why does you assigned to

0:38:59.160 --> 0:38:59.920
<v Speaker 2>the Fourth Musketeer.

0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:02.759
<v Speaker 3>Well, no, he didn't want the painting. He wanted the

0:39:02.920 --> 0:39:06.520
<v Speaker 3>canvas because he said he was going to pay he

0:39:06.600 --> 0:39:08.560
<v Speaker 3>was going to paint a version of Rembrandts The Night

0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:09.239
<v Speaker 3>Watch over it.

0:39:09.480 --> 0:39:11.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, so good, so Tetro.

0:39:11.880 --> 0:39:15.719
<v Speaker 3>He also had Dolly's Nuclear Disintegration of the Head of

0:39:15.760 --> 0:39:19.080
<v Speaker 3>a Virgin And despite the agent look of the piece

0:39:19.239 --> 0:39:22.200
<v Speaker 3>like it had a Dolly signature, a plaque that gives

0:39:22.239 --> 0:39:24.320
<v Speaker 3>the date of the creation of the painting is nineteen

0:39:24.360 --> 0:39:29.759
<v Speaker 3>fifty three. It's actually a Tetrod. Yeah, he said, it's

0:39:29.840 --> 0:39:33.640
<v Speaker 3>not a copy of Dolly's work, but an emulation. Quote.

0:39:33.680 --> 0:39:37.720
<v Speaker 3>I prefer doing emulations more than copying. When asked about

0:39:37.719 --> 0:39:40.920
<v Speaker 3>the plaque that had Dolly's name in nineteen fifty three

0:39:41.000 --> 0:39:44.560
<v Speaker 3>on it, he said, quote, job worth doing is worth doing?

0:39:44.640 --> 0:39:47.239
<v Speaker 2>Well, you say that all the time. I do so.

0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:50.360
<v Speaker 3>According to Tetro, quote, I think we are going to

0:39:50.400 --> 0:39:53.200
<v Speaker 3>show in essence that I painted and other people did

0:39:53.239 --> 0:39:56.239
<v Speaker 3>the crime. I never represented them as real. Other people

0:39:56.360 --> 0:39:57.319
<v Speaker 3>sold My stuff is real.

0:39:57.480 --> 0:39:59.200
<v Speaker 2>What are you okay? You looked into this guy? You

0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:02.920
<v Speaker 2>tell me this st It seems like he's positioned himself

0:40:03.000 --> 0:40:05.120
<v Speaker 2>at the crossroads of crimes and acting like I'm just

0:40:05.280 --> 0:40:08.800
<v Speaker 2>happy I'm here directing traffic and innocent cop. Are you

0:40:08.920 --> 0:40:10.960
<v Speaker 2>mad at the cop when there's a crocity, I'm.

0:40:10.880 --> 0:40:13.279
<v Speaker 3>Up front there, the crooked one. Do you believe it? No?

0:40:13.520 --> 0:40:13.759
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

0:40:13.840 --> 0:40:17.080
<v Speaker 3>But I love it. I love it. So Tetro's attorney

0:40:17.160 --> 0:40:19.320
<v Speaker 3>not Robert Shapiro. I think he had a public defender

0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:21.920
<v Speaker 3>at this point. I bet he said. Tetro was obviously

0:40:22.120 --> 0:40:24.920
<v Speaker 3>not trying to sell his pieces as authentic. Just look

0:40:24.960 --> 0:40:27.360
<v Speaker 3>at the prices, because he would sell the pieces to

0:40:27.480 --> 0:40:31.320
<v Speaker 3>Suwiki for three hundred dollars five hundred dollars and SWICKI

0:40:31.320 --> 0:40:33.120
<v Speaker 3>would then turn around and sell the pieces in his

0:40:33.239 --> 0:40:36.080
<v Speaker 3>gallery for anywhere between fifteen hundred and seventy five hundred.

0:40:36.160 --> 0:40:37.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so clearly there's the markup.

0:40:37.640 --> 0:40:40.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, here's what Tetro said about that. I want to

0:40:40.280 --> 0:40:42.520
<v Speaker 3>also emphasize that most of the work that I do

0:40:42.800 --> 0:40:45.240
<v Speaker 3>was not for the art industry at all. Art brokers

0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:47.520
<v Speaker 3>contacted me. They came to me because they found that

0:40:47.600 --> 0:40:50.520
<v Speaker 3>I could copy anything and emulate anything, and they said

0:40:50.560 --> 0:40:53.040
<v Speaker 3>there's a market for excellent copies. So I started doing

0:40:53.120 --> 0:40:56.160
<v Speaker 3>them and in fact developed a printing method that is unique,

0:40:56.239 --> 0:41:00.680
<v Speaker 3>and I did colored lithographs Chagall, dalis Moreau. How is

0:41:00.719 --> 0:41:03.080
<v Speaker 3>that not for the art industry if you're doing this

0:41:03.520 --> 0:41:03.960
<v Speaker 3>for the art.

0:41:04.560 --> 0:41:07.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Also, I mean, like I'm gonna put these criminal terms,

0:41:07.360 --> 0:41:09.879
<v Speaker 2>I can very well understand if you're looking to get

0:41:09.920 --> 0:41:13.320
<v Speaker 2>busted in say pot right, pot growers are easy to

0:41:13.400 --> 0:41:16.040
<v Speaker 2>bust because one, they make for great headlines. Well, we

0:41:16.120 --> 0:41:18.319
<v Speaker 2>went right to the source. They have to sit put,

0:41:18.400 --> 0:41:20.360
<v Speaker 2>you know what their habits are going to be. Everybody

0:41:20.440 --> 0:41:23.000
<v Speaker 2>else is hard moving targets to hit. So he is

0:41:23.120 --> 0:41:25.040
<v Speaker 2>the one. I'm like, these dealers, you got to prove that,

0:41:25.239 --> 0:41:27.359
<v Speaker 2>you got to audit all their stuff. It's so much

0:41:27.400 --> 0:41:29.319
<v Speaker 2>more work. Nobody wants to do that. You get him.

0:41:29.360 --> 0:41:31.600
<v Speaker 2>You're like, look, welcome what we did. Yeah, right up

0:41:31.600 --> 0:41:33.839
<v Speaker 2>the headlines. Exactly Why does he not get that? That's

0:41:33.880 --> 0:41:36.520
<v Speaker 2>what I know. Otherwise he may just be lying and

0:41:36.600 --> 0:41:38.439
<v Speaker 2>pretending like he doesn't get anything. Yeah.

0:41:38.520 --> 0:41:41.680
<v Speaker 3>But still so he was up against an eight year sentence. Yeah,

0:41:41.840 --> 0:41:46.839
<v Speaker 3>and the prosecutor, Deputy District Attorney Reva gets quote, gets

0:41:46.880 --> 0:41:49.640
<v Speaker 3>her man, he has taken the work of these artists

0:41:49.760 --> 0:41:52.840
<v Speaker 3>and made the market unreliable and thrown into question for

0:41:52.960 --> 0:41:56.280
<v Speaker 3>most people, the viability of the entire graphics market.

0:41:56.840 --> 0:41:58.799
<v Speaker 2>A little bit of that lady.

0:41:58.960 --> 0:42:01.800
<v Speaker 3>So in eighty nine he gets convicted for conspiracy and

0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:05.600
<v Speaker 3>sixty seven counts of art forgery. He did an interview

0:42:05.840 --> 0:42:08.520
<v Speaker 3>in ninety one and he said, quote, I would like

0:42:08.640 --> 0:42:10.920
<v Speaker 3>to say to you right now that I'm never going

0:42:11.000 --> 0:42:13.560
<v Speaker 3>to paint again for a living. Yet I can't say that.

0:42:14.200 --> 0:42:16.480
<v Speaker 3>I can't yet, I can't say that to be truthful.

0:42:17.200 --> 0:42:20.319
<v Speaker 3>I would like to you want you can bet I'd

0:42:20.360 --> 0:42:23.600
<v Speaker 3>stamp copy or reproduction or emulation all over the back

0:42:23.680 --> 0:42:27.359
<v Speaker 3>of it. He's not going to stop. February ninety three,

0:42:27.480 --> 0:42:30.280
<v Speaker 3>he pleads no contest to one count of attempted theft,

0:42:30.560 --> 0:42:34.200
<v Speaker 3>account of conspiracy, six counts of forgery. He gets released

0:42:34.239 --> 0:42:37.160
<v Speaker 3>from jail in ninety four, and his sentence included two

0:42:37.239 --> 0:42:40.319
<v Speaker 3>hundred hours of community service six months in a work

0:42:40.360 --> 0:42:44.200
<v Speaker 3>release program to paint prototypes for traffic safety manuals. It

0:42:44.320 --> 0:42:47.279
<v Speaker 3>is five years of probation. And in order to paint

0:42:47.360 --> 0:42:50.680
<v Speaker 3>a mural on a public building, They're like, let's put

0:42:50.680 --> 0:42:51.120
<v Speaker 3>this to work.

0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:53.480
<v Speaker 2>Let's make this work for us, those civic improvement.

0:42:53.680 --> 0:42:56.319
<v Speaker 3>He also has to obey a court order to sign

0:42:56.480 --> 0:42:59.279
<v Speaker 3>all of his works with his name only. And this

0:42:59.440 --> 0:43:02.040
<v Speaker 3>is how he's like loving this quote all of them

0:43:02.239 --> 0:43:04.319
<v Speaker 3>asked to not put my stamp on the back. Oh

0:43:04.640 --> 0:43:07.319
<v Speaker 3>my stamp. I have to put that on everything. I'm

0:43:07.360 --> 0:43:09.520
<v Speaker 3>the only person in the United States that has to.

0:43:09.920 --> 0:43:12.520
<v Speaker 3>I'm ordered by the courts. I put three big stamps

0:43:12.560 --> 0:43:14.680
<v Speaker 3>on them so they don't get go into commerce.

0:43:15.800 --> 0:43:17.279
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he's like a court guy.

0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:20.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. None of the art dealers that he worked with

0:43:20.560 --> 0:43:24.279
<v Speaker 3>had any charges pressed against them. When Tetro was asked

0:43:24.280 --> 0:43:26.799
<v Speaker 3>what happened to them, he said, quote nothing. They all

0:43:26.920 --> 0:43:29.359
<v Speaker 3>lawyered up, waiting for me to rat or drop a dime,

0:43:29.440 --> 0:43:32.360
<v Speaker 3>and they all lawyered up in nothing, and they certainly

0:43:32.400 --> 0:43:34.920
<v Speaker 3>wouldn't commission me to do any work. When I got

0:43:34.960 --> 0:43:36.839
<v Speaker 3>out of jail, they wouldn't talk to me. And then

0:43:36.880 --> 0:43:39.040
<v Speaker 3>about ten years after there were only two of them

0:43:39.080 --> 0:43:40.880
<v Speaker 3>that I talked to. One of them bought me a

0:43:40.920 --> 0:43:42.319
<v Speaker 3>new Mercedes. I didn't have a car.

0:43:43.200 --> 0:43:47.520
<v Speaker 2>Like, what story? Do you always do cocaine before you

0:43:47.600 --> 0:43:50.799
<v Speaker 2>tell a story? Is that? Okay?

0:43:50.920 --> 0:43:54.080
<v Speaker 3>Now go well? He never lost the support of his friends.

0:43:54.320 --> 0:43:57.040
<v Speaker 3>Do you remember mortgage banker Ken Kettner? This is it

0:43:57.120 --> 0:43:59.480
<v Speaker 3>has a little fun with it. He said. I like

0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:02.200
<v Speaker 3>Tony very much, a gracious guy who's always been there

0:44:02.280 --> 0:44:05.720
<v Speaker 3>when you need him. And it went beyond Ken. Seven

0:44:05.880 --> 0:44:09.920
<v Speaker 3>hundred of Tetro's friends came together for a birthday celebration

0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:12.799
<v Speaker 3>in an upscale hotel with a birthday cake that had

0:44:12.840 --> 0:44:17.480
<v Speaker 3>a one eyed Tetro painting a Picasso. Okay, so he

0:44:17.640 --> 0:44:20.680
<v Speaker 3>currently Tetro currently creates master copies for a list of

0:44:20.800 --> 0:44:24.480
<v Speaker 3>exclusive clients from his studio in southern California. Good for

0:44:24.680 --> 0:44:28.839
<v Speaker 3>Him Focus, a BBC Science and Technology magazine, produced an

0:44:28.920 --> 0:44:32.840
<v Speaker 3>article instructing people how to create their own fake pieces

0:44:33.000 --> 0:44:38.480
<v Speaker 3>using Tetro's techniques like how to Wow twenty ten, he

0:44:38.680 --> 0:44:43.520
<v Speaker 3>legally changed his name to Antonio Montana Tetro.

0:44:43.920 --> 0:44:44.719
<v Speaker 2>Why Montana?

0:44:44.840 --> 0:44:47.719
<v Speaker 3>Because he went to Costa Rica and when he got there,

0:44:47.840 --> 0:44:51.080
<v Speaker 3>all of his friends said, Hey, Tony Montana's in town.

0:44:52.360 --> 0:44:54.040
<v Speaker 3>Tony Montana from Scarface.

0:44:54.120 --> 0:44:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh got it, and so he wanted to add it.

0:44:56.040 --> 0:44:57.319
<v Speaker 2>He's like, I gotta put that in there.

0:44:58.400 --> 0:45:00.719
<v Speaker 3>I'm not a drug dealer. I'm just gonna changed my

0:45:00.840 --> 0:45:02.319
<v Speaker 3>name to Tony to Montana, the.

0:45:02.360 --> 0:45:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Greatest fictional drug dealer ever represented on films? What in

0:45:06.080 --> 0:45:06.200
<v Speaker 2>the what?

0:45:06.520 --> 0:45:10.280
<v Speaker 3>What even is this? Twenty eleven, there was a competition

0:45:10.360 --> 0:45:14.359
<v Speaker 3>announced the Australian Art series. Hotel Group had this thing

0:45:14.480 --> 0:45:16.719
<v Speaker 3>for guests, like they could they could get a chance

0:45:16.800 --> 0:45:20.040
<v Speaker 3>to pick an original Warhol valued at like twenty thousand

0:45:20.040 --> 0:45:22.719
<v Speaker 3>dollars from a row of fakes produced by quote the

0:45:22.800 --> 0:45:26.880
<v Speaker 3>world's greatest living art forger. So whoever picked the original

0:45:26.960 --> 0:45:30.279
<v Speaker 3>Warhol could keep it. But if you chose incorrectly, you

0:45:30.280 --> 0:45:32.560
<v Speaker 3>would win that Warhol by Tony Tetro.

0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:34.759
<v Speaker 2>Did you get to buy it? Did again?

0:45:34.800 --> 0:45:38.080
<v Speaker 3>Twenty grand Well, the contest was controversial. Yeah, it sounds

0:45:38.120 --> 0:45:41.240
<v Speaker 3>like so Will Dieg, the chief executive of the Art series.

0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:45.400
<v Speaker 3>Hotel claimed that the contest was endorsed by the Warhol Foundation,

0:45:45.880 --> 0:45:47.520
<v Speaker 3>and what do they care about that? They said, as

0:45:47.600 --> 0:45:50.840
<v Speaker 3>long as the advertising material doesn't use any Warhol images,

0:45:50.920 --> 0:45:52.360
<v Speaker 3>go for it, which, wow, do.

0:45:52.560 --> 0:45:53.719
<v Speaker 2>Keep that relevant? We don't care.

0:45:53.840 --> 0:45:57.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but the Warhol Foundation said they were quote appalled

0:45:57.239 --> 0:45:59.080
<v Speaker 3>to learn that a hotel would think it wise to

0:45:59.120 --> 0:46:02.080
<v Speaker 3>commission forgery in an attempt to market its services.

0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Come.

0:46:03.400 --> 0:46:04.960
<v Speaker 3>So they probably made it like you could win a

0:46:05.040 --> 0:46:08.080
<v Speaker 3>Warhol and they're not gonna say, surrounded by faking Tetro's.

0:46:08.760 --> 0:46:12.359
<v Speaker 3>So Tetros still hustling. That memoir was twenty twenty two.

0:46:12.600 --> 0:46:13.640
<v Speaker 2>Every day I'm hustling.

0:46:14.640 --> 0:46:17.279
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to add con slash artists to the book

0:46:17.320 --> 0:46:21.960
<v Speaker 3>club for sure, staying even more relevant. Twenty twenty three,

0:46:22.440 --> 0:46:23.640
<v Speaker 3>he started a Reddit.

0:46:23.440 --> 0:46:24.759
<v Speaker 2>Thread dija twenty twenty three.

0:46:24.840 --> 0:46:27.279
<v Speaker 3>This year, Yeah, this year he started a Reddit thread

0:46:27.280 --> 0:46:29.640
<v Speaker 3>where he announced a documentary about his life called The

0:46:29.719 --> 0:46:30.400
<v Speaker 3>Royal Stunt.

0:46:30.800 --> 0:46:31.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't believe it exists.

0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:35.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, me neither. So right, what are our final words

0:46:35.200 --> 0:46:36.520
<v Speaker 3>from old Tony Tetroeh?

0:46:36.560 --> 0:46:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Please quote today?

0:46:39.040 --> 0:46:42.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm no longer a criminal. Today on my criminal record

0:46:42.360 --> 0:46:45.440
<v Speaker 3>it says not guilty and I have nothing on my record.

0:46:45.800 --> 0:46:48.600
<v Speaker 3>I was so lily white. I can't stand myself. I've

0:46:48.680 --> 0:46:49.520
<v Speaker 3>done nothing wrong.

0:46:50.600 --> 0:46:50.960
<v Speaker 2>There you go.

0:46:51.200 --> 0:46:52.719
<v Speaker 3>What's your ridiculous takeaways? Aaron?

0:46:52.960 --> 0:46:57.520
<v Speaker 2>I believe it was once said I knew John Kennedy.

0:46:57.680 --> 0:46:59.759
<v Speaker 2>John Kennedy was a friend of mine, and you, sir,

0:47:00.040 --> 0:47:02.440
<v Speaker 2>are no John Kennedy. I would like to say that

0:47:02.600 --> 0:47:06.360
<v Speaker 2>about Elmer de Hory. I once heard a great story

0:47:06.400 --> 0:47:09.560
<v Speaker 2>about Elmer d'hoy and now I've heard a story about you, sir,

0:47:09.800 --> 0:47:11.800
<v Speaker 2>and you are no Elmer de'hory.

0:47:12.080 --> 0:47:13.960
<v Speaker 3>That's beautiful, excellent.

0:47:14.160 --> 0:47:16.239
<v Speaker 2>What's yours? Elizabeth? Easy? This is you know, he just

0:47:16.360 --> 0:47:17.439
<v Speaker 2>flows out of the mouth.

0:47:17.640 --> 0:47:20.520
<v Speaker 3>Yes. I love when we have these threads that lead

0:47:20.600 --> 0:47:22.719
<v Speaker 3>to I'm looking for what's going to spin off of

0:47:22.800 --> 0:47:27.040
<v Speaker 3>Tony Tetro Because we had Clifford Irving totally Elmire de horri.

0:47:28.040 --> 0:47:30.440
<v Speaker 3>Now we got Tony Tetro connected like I kind of

0:47:30.480 --> 0:47:32.040
<v Speaker 3>feel like it's going to be the Ecclestone thing.

0:47:32.280 --> 0:47:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Probably you got a three people to look into that.

0:47:34.520 --> 0:47:36.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So I love these chains that they create.

0:47:37.400 --> 0:47:39.920
<v Speaker 2>That's it. Maybe Kent Kenter maybe dig into him.

0:47:40.080 --> 0:47:42.400
<v Speaker 3>Can He's so fun. I just have fun with him.

0:47:42.400 --> 0:47:43.440
<v Speaker 3>It's fun painting it.

0:47:43.480 --> 0:47:46.560
<v Speaker 2>Turns out he's like something crazy for it, like done

0:47:46.600 --> 0:47:47.840
<v Speaker 2>something horrific we can't even.

0:47:47.719 --> 0:47:49.440
<v Speaker 3>Talk about, just like we have to bleep out his

0:47:49.560 --> 0:47:52.360
<v Speaker 3>name on Future Anyway, That's all I have. Okay, you

0:47:52.440 --> 0:47:56.320
<v Speaker 3>can find us online at ridiculous crime dot com. There's merch.

0:47:56.760 --> 0:47:59.320
<v Speaker 3>I think I've got some T shirt ideas.

0:47:59.480 --> 0:48:00.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh you got a new one?

0:48:01.200 --> 0:48:01.440
<v Speaker 1>Do it?

0:48:01.719 --> 0:48:02.000
<v Speaker 2>Do it.

0:48:02.719 --> 0:48:05.879
<v Speaker 3>We're also at ridiculous Crime on Is Twitter still a thing?

0:48:05.920 --> 0:48:08.040
<v Speaker 3>Does it exist? It's called x No I'm saying, but

0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:09.360
<v Speaker 3>just in general, is it still up?

0:48:09.600 --> 0:48:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I know it's still there if you want to

0:48:11.520 --> 0:48:13.000
<v Speaker 2>go get like a horrific Yeah.

0:48:13.080 --> 0:48:15.479
<v Speaker 3>I deactivated. I deactivated Twitter.

0:48:15.520 --> 0:48:16.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm not on there anymore.

0:48:16.880 --> 0:48:20.440
<v Speaker 3>Give us. We're on Instagram. I think we're on threads.

0:48:21.000 --> 0:48:22.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I don't go on any of this.

0:48:23.440 --> 0:48:26.680
<v Speaker 3>Don't email us at ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com.

0:48:27.239 --> 0:48:29.880
<v Speaker 3>Do leave a talk back on iHeart app. We've been

0:48:29.920 --> 0:48:40.560
<v Speaker 3>getting some good totally. Yeah, there you go. Ridiculous Crime

0:48:40.640 --> 0:48:43.360
<v Speaker 3>is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnette, produced and

0:48:43.520 --> 0:48:47.320
<v Speaker 3>edited by Dave Tonio Montana Cousten. Research is by Marissa

0:48:47.400 --> 0:48:50.760
<v Speaker 3>Brown and Andrea Song Sharpen Tear, co authors of research

0:48:50.960 --> 0:48:54.000
<v Speaker 3>my life learning about these chuckleheads. The theme song is

0:48:54.040 --> 0:48:56.920
<v Speaker 3>by Thomas quit Plan On my Phone, Lee and Travis

0:48:57.040 --> 0:49:00.560
<v Speaker 3>want to buy a Toyota Tursel Dutton. Executive producers are

0:49:00.600 --> 0:49:04.640
<v Speaker 3>Plea Bargain expert Ben Bolin and Kincaid authenticator Noel Brown.

0:49:09.920 --> 0:49:15.560
<v Speaker 2>Ridicous Crime Say It One More Timequeous Crime.

0:49:16.680 --> 0:49:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts

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<v Speaker 1>from my heart Radio. Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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