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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Zaren Elizabeth, what's up? How you doing? Girl?

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Speaker 3: Good? You know it's ridiculous?

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Speaker 2: Ah, yes, do I You ever heard of Betty Penrose? No,

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Speaker 2: she was a secretary. Her boss was a lawyer in Oakland, Okay,

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Speaker 2: in her hometown. He filed a lawsuit on behalf of

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Speaker 2: his secretary. And that's how Betty Penrose sued God. Why God, Elizabeth?

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Speaker 2: Because God had struck her house with lightning nine years earlier,

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Speaker 2: and so Betty Penrose sued God for quote negligence. She

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Speaker 2: filed her lawsuit in a California court, even though the

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Speaker 2: lightning strike had occurred in Arizona.

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Speaker 3: I was gonna say, we don't have a lot of

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Speaker 3: lightning strikes.

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Speaker 2: Exactly why California? Well, why a California court in particular,

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Speaker 2: in particular, Elizabeth, nineteen sixty nine, Sonoma County? Why there?

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Speaker 2: Why in the middle of your peak California? Great question, Elizabeth,

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Speaker 2: this woman, why would she sue God? Well in California? No? Less? Well?

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Speaker 2: These important possibly, I'll tell you this much. Two words

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Speaker 2: answer our question? What two words? Lou Gottlieb. If you

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Speaker 2: don't know Lou Gottlieb. He was a former singer and

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Speaker 2: bass player from the folk trio The Limelighters. Anyway, one

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Speaker 2: week earlier than the lawsuit was filed, Lou Gottlieb had

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Speaker 2: transferred the deed to his Morning Star ranch over to God. Okay,

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Speaker 2: that legally made the Almighty a property owner in the

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Speaker 2: state of California, and thus God could now be sued. So,

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Speaker 2: according to the news story I found in the Indianapolis

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Speaker 2: Star from May fifteenth, nineteen sixty nine, quote, the Sonoma

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Speaker 2: County Clerk issued a summons for the deity and returned

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Speaker 2: it to the attorney for service. So basically they were like, here,

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Speaker 2: go find God, and you find the usubpoena the architect

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Speaker 2: of the universe. Thank God. So, the news story goes on,

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Speaker 2: is as plaintiff is informed and believes that defendant God,

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Speaker 2: at all times mentioned herein is responsible for the maintenance

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Speaker 2: and operation of the universe, including the weather in and

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Speaker 2: upon the state of the Arizona, and that on or

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Speaker 2: about August seventeenth, nineteen sixty Defendant so maintained and controlled

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Speaker 2: the weather in or around or upon Phoenix, Arizona, in

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Speaker 2: such careless and negligent manner as it caused lightning to

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Speaker 2: strike the plaintiff's house, setting it on fire and startling,

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Speaker 2: frightening and shocking the plaintiff. So they're saying that God's fault.

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Speaker 2: So then this story, which is good because we had

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Speaker 2: this like you know, this crazy folk trio that've left

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Speaker 2: their land to God and this lady's got her like

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Speaker 2: Oakland lawyer enter our next Kouk a dude in Kenya,

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Speaker 2: Joseph and Juwey. He steps forward. He's read this story.

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Speaker 2: He says, I will defend God in this lawsuit, this

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Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars lawsuit. How dare you? So he's

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Speaker 2: there in Nairobi and he writes the letter because this

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Speaker 2: is from the Arizona Republic because they also reported on

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Speaker 2: it May twenty second, nineteen sixty nine. They quote from

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Speaker 2: in Juey's letter to the Attorney General of the United

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Speaker 2: States of Arizona. As I understand you have signed the summons,

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Speaker 2: I would request you kindly to hold this case until

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Speaker 2: I try and get enough finances to come there and

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Speaker 2: defend God in court without appealing in person. I can

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Speaker 2: be called in the court after the change has been read.

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Speaker 2: The plea of not guilty, must be endorsed. So he's like,

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Speaker 2: let me go and fight and defend God. So this

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Speaker 2: offer was kind, noble, we all have to agree, right,

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Speaker 2: but ultimately unnecessary because Betty Penrose lost her lawsuit on

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Speaker 2: a technicality. God was never able to take possession of

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Speaker 2: land since the Almighty did not execute control of the

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Speaker 2: deeded land. As The Indianapolis Star later reported, the deed

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Speaker 2: filed quote last week conveying the hippie ranch to God

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Speaker 2: was quote deemed invalid. So Betty Parsons lawsuit against God

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Speaker 2: was thrown out. And so just like God, she no

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Speaker 2: longer had any illegal grounds to stand on. So I

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Speaker 2: love about this. In nineteen sixty nine and everything, there's

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Speaker 2: all this mad stuff going on, and what is Betty

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Speaker 2: Parsons doing. She's like, I'm a sue God.

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Speaker 3: I was wondering, like, how would God pay the property taxes?

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Speaker 3: So many method just like manna from heaven.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and also the whole idea that like if you

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Speaker 2: are the you know, totally omniscient and all powerful, then

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Speaker 2: you've already taken possession of the land, right you don't

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Speaker 2: really have to exquest him that it makes sense the ridiculous,

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Speaker 2: very ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: I like that.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: You want to know what else is ridiculous? I'm here

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Speaker 3: for it, Secret Rooms.

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Speaker 2: What this is?

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Speaker 3: Ridiculous Crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists,

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Speaker 3: and cons. It's always ninety nine percent murder free and

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent ridiculous. I heard that I have for

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Speaker 3: you today, sir. Another one of my top shelf cutis

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Speaker 3: it's an art crime and a forgery. Hello man alive.

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Speaker 3: I love these I love art. I'm a terrible artist.

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Speaker 3: My only medium is words. Really, yeah, I can't draw

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Speaker 3: or paint to save my life.

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Speaker 2: Can you dance? No?

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Speaker 3: I'm fascinated by those who can draw and paint.

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Speaker 2: And even more people, Oh you're not me, so go on.

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Speaker 3: So what I find even more fascinating is when someone

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Speaker 3: who has a great skill doesn't use it to create

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Speaker 3: their own work. That fascinates me. We've talked about that before,

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Speaker 3: artists versus draftsman.

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Speaker 2: Basically, oh yes, okay, the artist artisan? Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 3: So you can't call yourself an artist if you require

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Speaker 3: direction to create something. That's my hot take, unpopular opinion.

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Speaker 3: But oh how I love these forgers. I love their

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Speaker 3: wily ways, but they break my heart by misusing all

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Speaker 3: that talent. Okay, anyway, let me give you a quote

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Speaker 3: from today's cat Please. Forgery was fun, like a challenging

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Speaker 3: puzzle or riddle to solve. I love figuring out intriguing

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Speaker 3: ways to make an artwork plausible. I loved doing everything perfect,

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Speaker 3: leaving little hints that only the most knowledgeable experts would appreciate.

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Speaker 3: It's strange to say, but half the fun was imagining

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Speaker 3: the oohs and ahs I would get and the little

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Speaker 3: nods of appreciation I might receive. Without that art forgery,

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Speaker 3: would it just been another job?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean act totally relate. You make your work

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Speaker 2: entertaining to you. Yeah, it's not the work that's entertaining.

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Speaker 3: So who is this guy?

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Speaker 2: Who is this guy?

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Speaker 3: Elizabeth Anthony gen Tetro, Anthony gen Tetra, Tony Tetro, Tony Tetro.

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Speaker 2: Good. Yeah, that's a great one, right.

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Speaker 3: He's a serious character. He was born in nineteen fifty

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Speaker 3: in Fulton, New York, to Beatrice and James Tetro.

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Speaker 2: Also haven't heard of them? Run a three to three.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, James House painter like you, I'm into that developed

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Speaker 3: a special process for coating water towers. Innovator. Beatrice's claim

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Speaker 3: to fame was that when she was a little girl,

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Speaker 3: she saw Amelia Earhart land her plane on the family pasture.

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Speaker 2: Oh dope, that's pretty cool.

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Speaker 3: These are like good, honest folk who have like cool little.

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Speaker 2: Things living Americana.

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Speaker 3: And they created a wild child.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So Tetro he was an ultra boy. Were you an

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Speaker 3: ultra boy? No?

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Speaker 2: No, I always resisted all of my Catholic indoctrinations. So

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Speaker 2: like I mean not like, I don't mean to sound

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Speaker 2: like a jerk, but like a lot of my friends,

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Speaker 2: like best friends, are ultra boys, like you should do

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Speaker 2: it to be fun. I'm like, are you kidding me?

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Speaker 2: I already have to get up into a paper route.

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Speaker 2: I'm not doing this. So no, I was not an alto.

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Speaker 3: So Tetro ultra boy is a good kid. But like

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Speaker 3: most altar boys, he had a mischievous streak. That's just

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Speaker 3: a tree that is. He had no formal art training.

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Speaker 3: All of his skills were innate or self taught. When

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Speaker 3: he was in elementary school, he made his first piece

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Speaker 3: of art. Quote, I drew a picture of one of

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Speaker 3: the nuns. Sister Antonio I did this beautiful Vargas picture

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Speaker 3: of her, but pruney faced and in a habit. She

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Speaker 3: whacked me and took me to the priest.

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Speaker 2: He chuckled, Wait a var like a Vargas girl. So

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Speaker 2: he did her like a pin up with a prony face.

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Speaker 3: That's yeah, so who is he? Let's stell, let's deal further.

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Speaker 3: According to Ira Reiner, an LA district attorney, Tetro was

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Speaker 3: quote the single largest forger of artworks in America.

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Speaker 2: Really yeah, I don't think I've ever heard of it.

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Speaker 3: And according to Gary Helton, the district attorney's investigator, quote,

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Speaker 3: I consider mister Tetro to be one of the two

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Speaker 3: major art forgers in the United States. It's like he

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Speaker 3: gets first and then he gets a tie for first.

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Speaker 2: He's like I would put an Asterix steroid era forgers

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Speaker 2: came to come in.

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Speaker 3: Tom Binder, president of Tom Binder Fine Arts in Venice, California.

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Speaker 2: Tom Binder Fine Arts.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it's Bender whatever, you know who cares.

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Speaker 2: Got a binder full of benders.

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Speaker 3: He said, quote, but you know what the bottom.

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Speaker 2: Line is the bottom blind guy.

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Speaker 3: Was just a brilliant mind that went astray. A Frankenstein.

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Speaker 3: All I know is that guy's a genius.

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Speaker 2: So he actually used Frankenstein correctly. He made it the

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Speaker 2: doctor Frankenstein mad. You know, he went mad, not the monster.

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Speaker 3: Exact way to buy that one bender so good. How

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Speaker 3: did he get there? How did Tony get there? When

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Speaker 3: he was sixteen, he married his pregnant high school girlfriend.

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Speaker 3: He was a father at seventeen. He moved to California

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Speaker 3: at nineteen, and then he was divorced by twenty three.

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Speaker 2: Really Russian life.

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Speaker 3: So he just moved five years exactly and then took

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Speaker 3: his show over to the West coast and there you go.

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Speaker 3: So he began studying art on his own. He went

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Speaker 3: to museums all the time, like practiced. He experimented with

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Speaker 3: paints and formal the for a baking process so that

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Speaker 3: he could create krakolure.

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Speaker 2: That's a really cool pattern. You have to do that

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Speaker 2: a blaze. You put down one glaze and you put

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Speaker 2: another on top of it. As it dries, it separates.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it makes it look old and it creates.

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Speaker 2: It literally cracks like old desert earth. Right.

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Speaker 3: So Tetro he was working at the Broadway Department store

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Speaker 3: in the furniture department. Oh and one day, he picked

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Speaker 3: up a book. I know, right, isn't that come on department?

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Speaker 3: Oh he picked up a book Sarin.

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Speaker 2: Oh strong man, Okay, showing up.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know what book that was.

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Speaker 2: It was the book take a Guess how to win

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Speaker 2: friends and influence people.

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Speaker 3: Close Fake by Clifford or You're bron Elmirdhoy Biography.

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Speaker 2: I would not have guessed that he read.

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Speaker 3: He picks that up, he reads it. This is how

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Speaker 3: he described it. Quote. When I read that book, that

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Speaker 3: was really the beginning of this for me. The more

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Speaker 3: I read, the more I said to myself, I could

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Speaker 3: do this.

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Speaker 2: I think Elma would be so tickled by that.

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Speaker 3: Isn't that the greatest? It's like an instruction menial for him.

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Speaker 2: Full anarchist manifesto for art for Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Here's what Tetro said about Dhore quote. I saw his paintings.

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Speaker 3: He was in Los Angeles. I went to the galleries,

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Speaker 3: talked to people who knew him. He was here in

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Speaker 3: Los Angeles and sold a lot of paintings to celebrities

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Speaker 3: and he signed them horri I think he was really

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Speaker 3: good in creating fake art. I was impressed by him.

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Speaker 3: So this is like he's got this mentor, and like

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Speaker 3: an unassuming mentor. So so Tetro he began making reproductions

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Speaker 3: of pieces. One of his first attempts at selling a

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Speaker 3: faked piece was a copy of a copy.

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Speaker 2: He wanted to do a copy of a forged.

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Speaker 3: We talked about that with elmird Hori. Tetro copied a

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Speaker 3: Dhoy copy of Chagall.

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Speaker 2: So somebody wanted to They wanted their own Dehoy or

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Speaker 2: so I wanted their own horri version of Chagall, And

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Speaker 2: they were like, hey, Tetro, can you do that? Correct?

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Speaker 3: So Tetro he brings the piece to try and sell

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Speaker 3: it at a gallery and Vincent Price happened to be

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Speaker 3: there at the time. Yeah, no price art connoisseurtion. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he knew his.

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Speaker 2: Stuff, really great art.

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Speaker 3: So he sees Tetro's piece and he says, I don't

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Speaker 3: like him pointing at Elmuir's name, and I don't like

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Speaker 3: him pointing to Shagall's name. So he's just like, get.

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Speaker 2: This out of here. Here.

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Speaker 3: Here's a fun fact. Did you know that if someone

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Speaker 3: sends a Chagall painting to be authenticated by the Committee Chagall,

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Speaker 3: it'll be destroyed under French law if it's determined to

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Speaker 3: be fake.

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Speaker 2: So I did not fair warning.

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Speaker 3: Now, you know, back to Tetro undeterred, undeterred by all

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Speaker 3: the insults from Vincent Price.

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Speaker 2: So there's no appealing in that process.

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Speaker 3: No, they're just like toss it in the fire, speak

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Speaker 3: to the dust. So Tetro starts selling his pieces at

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Speaker 3: art fairs, and he was up front that these were copies.

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Speaker 3: But what he found is that people cared more about

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Speaker 3: the art matching their decor than they did having some

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Speaker 3: sort of like authentic piece.

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Speaker 2: So they just want the effect, the feel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is why he put it. I would do

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Speaker 3: a Rembrandt or a Renoir, and I only earned a

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Speaker 3: few hundred dollars for it. I sold only a few paintings,

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Speaker 3: maybe twenty I sold. Nobody wanted a Rembrandt because I

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Speaker 3: figured if you put a rem brand over your fireplace,

250
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Speaker 3: somebody's gonna think it's a print. I sold them for

251
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Speaker 3: about three hundred dollars in an Aaron Brothers frame, although

252
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Speaker 3: I didn't sell many, which is like a good point,

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Speaker 3: you know, like if you're just living in like a

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Speaker 3: ranch house in like Demas. Yeah, he started copying photographs then. Quote,

255
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Speaker 3: I did portraits of many people judges FBI agents. I

256
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Speaker 3: did Herb Huffif, and it's hanging in his office right now.

257
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Speaker 3: Like FBI agent portraits is so good. So Herb Huffif.

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Speaker 3: He's a trial lawyer in Claremont, California, which is like

259
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Speaker 3: a postable suburb of La right foot of the San

260
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Speaker 3: Gabriel Mountains. Hafif said the portrait was a Christmas gift

261
00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,360
Speaker 3: from his employees. Quote those who claim it to be

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00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,920
Speaker 3: a wonderful likeness I consider to be my friends. The

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Speaker 3: portrait forever memorializes me as a person in his early forties.

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Speaker 2: The vasculinity of that jut out.

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Speaker 3: So then, Tetro, it's like.

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Speaker 2: The author photos. Just take one of the forties. You'll

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Speaker 2: never see a updated.

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Speaker 3: Tetro sold a Modigliani drawing for sixteen hundred dollars at

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Speaker 3: an auction house in Santa Anna, but he got caught.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Tetro was asked if it was known by everyone at

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Speaker 3: the gallery that the Modigliani was fake, and this is

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Speaker 3: how he said it, and this is I love quoting

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Speaker 3: him because it's so meandering and bizarre. Okay, so here

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Speaker 3: it is. Quote, oh no, I showed it to another guy.

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Speaker 3: Before that, and I told him that I did it.

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Speaker 3: He was having an affair with Jack Warner's mistress, Jack

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Speaker 3: Warner of Warner Brothers, and she left a diamond ring

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Speaker 3: at the auction house that Jack Warner had given her.

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Speaker 3: It was a twenty four carrot d flawless, a very

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Speaker 3: valuable ring. And so he said to her, i'll sell it.

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Speaker 3: I'll give you five thousand dollars now, and he gave

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Speaker 3: her a bracelet and quote, I'll give you the rest

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Speaker 3: when I sell it.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: This guy was a thief, this guy at the auction house,

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Speaker 3: and she never got a dime. This was worth at

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00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,640
Speaker 3: least a quarter of a million dollars, this ring. And

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Speaker 3: that's how he did everything. He would tell an old

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Speaker 3: lady who'd bring in a Tiffany lamp, oh, here's one

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Speaker 3: hundred dollars. I'll give you the rest. The lamp would

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00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,480
Speaker 3: be worth ten thousand dollars, but she'd never see another penny.

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Speaker 3: That's how he did things, and he got away with it.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know any of this. When I walked into

295
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,920
Speaker 3: the auction house. He got mad at a guy. He

296
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,760
Speaker 3: saw my Adigliani drawing and he said, oh, that's fake

297
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 3: and I told him my transmission broke and I needed

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Speaker 3: the money. The guy called me. He got a hold

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00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:20,480
Speaker 3: of me, and he said, either you paint for me

300
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,920
Speaker 3: or I'll break your hands. I'll cut your hands off.

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00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,840
Speaker 2: He's like an eight year old telling his story. We know,

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00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:27,400
Speaker 2: I was supposed to go to the partment. I went

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00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 2: to the part you know Billy's his father got divorced,

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00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,040
Speaker 2: and that his new mom was over there. But she

305
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,680
Speaker 2: told me it was a cold, so we went to McDonald's.

306
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,600
Speaker 3: But then he yes or no, she just like was fake.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let me talk by Jack Warner's mistress. All right,

308
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Speaker 2: First and foremost, I can't answer this question until we

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00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:41,480
Speaker 2: get down to.

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Speaker 3: He says, I painted for him so we wouldn't break

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Speaker 3: my hands. I did a lot of Robert Wood paintings

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00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,480
Speaker 3: for him. Most people don't even know who Robert Wood was. Uh,

313
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Speaker 3: not Robert Woods, the Houston, Texas Texans wide receiver Robert Wood.

314
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Speaker 2: Now, but Robert Woods Johnson, the MPR donor.

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Speaker 3: He was an American landscape painter. So the Palm Springs

316
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:09,080
Speaker 3: auction house owner had him make about thirty Robert Wood

317
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,800
Speaker 3: knockoffs over a period of about two years under the

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00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,080
Speaker 3: threat of I'll break your hands, and the guy also

319
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,240
Speaker 3: had him sit in on auctions as a shill to

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Speaker 3: drive the price up.

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Speaker 2: Of course, yeah good.

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00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,840
Speaker 3: So Tetro. He learned that the copies of Originals were

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00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,360
Speaker 3: quote very marketable, and I was told that a lot

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00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,400
Speaker 3: of these paintings were going to be sold as excellent

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00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,800
Speaker 3: copies for people who couldn't afford Originals. Many people hang

326
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,040
Speaker 3: reproductions in their homes and try to pass them off

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00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,240
Speaker 3: as reel to their friends. It's snob appeal, which is

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00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,560
Speaker 3: in the United States probably the number one reason people

329
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:44,440
Speaker 3: by art who at the end, so he's like taking

330
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,160
Speaker 3: it down or not. She's not doing rembrands, but he's

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00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,840
Speaker 3: doing something that is more plausible for people. One of

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00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 3: his clients was James Stunt, a bon vivon and the

333
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,480
Speaker 3: ex husband of Aris Petra Ecclestone, which.

334
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Speaker 2: Why don't I know the name ecclestone.

335
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,840
Speaker 3: Well, she legitimately, as an aside, has that plastic surgery

336
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,440
Speaker 3: face like no cap God bless. That looks like a

337
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,080
Speaker 3: new kind of species.

338
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,479
Speaker 2: Given the Santa Monica.

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00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,360
Speaker 3: Clips the cheeks. Yeah it's wild, so Ecclestone. She was

340
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,320
Speaker 3: born in London in nineteen eighty eight. She's the daughter

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00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:19,880
Speaker 3: of model Slavica Raditch and English Formula one billionaire Bernie ecclestone.

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00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,160
Speaker 3: That's how you know. So Petra and James they bought

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00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 3: the Aaron Spelling mansion in La.

344
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:27,440
Speaker 2: Oh with a gift wrapper.

345
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,680
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, that's the one with candy spellings

346
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:30,280
Speaker 3: gift wrapping.

347
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,600
Speaker 2: How do we all remember that?

348
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:33,240
Speaker 3: All I remember?

349
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,120
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you anything about that house but other

350
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 2: than it has a gift wrapping exctly.

351
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,160
Speaker 3: So what did James Stunt do for a living? He

352
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,200
Speaker 3: was a gold bullion dealer, that's not hanky, and he

353
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,040
Speaker 3: got he got all that like plastic surgery thing going

354
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,800
Speaker 3: on to but his has that like slightly like melting

355
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 3: silly putty thing going God bless. I wish him the best, godless,

356
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,360
Speaker 3: except not really. Because Stunt the gold bullion dealer. He

357
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,320
Speaker 3: was one of a defendants in the biggest money laundering

358
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,080
Speaker 3: trial in British criminal history. Oh good for it was

359
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,720
Speaker 3: a pretty sophisticated two hundred and sixty six million pound operation.

360
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,479
Speaker 3: Criminal cash was deposited in a bank account of a

361
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:18,320
Speaker 3: Bradford gold dealer named Fowler Oldfield. Okay, right, So the

362
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 3: prosecutor said that they were eight defendants. They were all

363
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,440
Speaker 3: part of a scheme to turn the proceeds of crime

364
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 3: into untraceable gold. Of course, so cash gets brought in

365
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,919
Speaker 3: from all over the UK, goes to Fowler, Oldfield and

366
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:34,560
Speaker 3: Stunt's business. They were business partners twenty fourteen to twenty sixteen,

367
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,320
Speaker 3: and the defendants hid the money's origin by laundering it

368
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,920
Speaker 3: through a company bank account and using the proceeds to

369
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,440
Speaker 3: buy gold which was shipped to Dubai. Says all of the.

370
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,600
Speaker 2: Elements because is always on. Yeah, so that you know

371
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:49,640
Speaker 2: right away.

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00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Stunt gets indicted. He puts his Tony Tetro

373
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:58,840
Speaker 3: fakes into the collection of Prince now King Charles and

374
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,359
Speaker 3: led him to believe He led the now King to

375
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,240
Speaker 3: believe that they were authentic, and then he turned around

376
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,439
Speaker 3: and he used those paintings as collateral to get a

377
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:07,200
Speaker 3: massive loan.

378
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,480
Speaker 2: So he duped the sitting head of the UK, like correct,

379
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,240
Speaker 2: the King Charles, that cat that guy and then use

380
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:15,960
Speaker 2: that to finance a massive loan.

381
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,520
Speaker 3: Right, and Tony Tetro makes it really clear that he

382
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,199
Speaker 3: wasn't aware of any of this stuff.

383
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:21,119
Speaker 2: I didn't know.

384
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,640
Speaker 3: So a portrait painted by Tetro. Would you usually sell

385
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:25,439
Speaker 3: for like five k?

386
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:26,879
Speaker 2: Dude? The pairs on these people.

387
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,200
Speaker 3: I know, a reproduction of a Shagall, for example, would

388
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,160
Speaker 3: be like two thousand, okay, and a small watercolor would

389
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 3: go for like three hundred bucks.

390
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 2: I do think his time would be worth more.

391
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 3: Tetro said, for three hundred For that, you get a Yamagatta,

392
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,159
Speaker 3: and he's talking about hero Yamagatta. Japanese artists based in

393
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:49,119
Speaker 3: La does like really vivid beautiful. So Tetro's forgery business expanded.

394
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,879
Speaker 3: This is how he said quote. As time passed, I

395
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 3: became better, but I got so much more work that

396
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,400
Speaker 3: I hired four people to work in the studio.

397
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:57,720
Speaker 2: I was just about to ask.

398
00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 3: Each of us had a different palette. We did parts

399
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:01,919
Speaker 3: of the painting, each with his own part, and it

400
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 3: worked out well. We did ninety five paintings big old

401
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 3: Masters for a Texas billionaire. It took five or six years.

402
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,479
Speaker 3: But now I have a new customer, a friend of his,

403
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 3: another billionaire, and that's why I was working today the

404
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:13,520
Speaker 3: whole day.

405
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,640
Speaker 2: So he became like the Candy Wiley or the Picassos,

406
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:17,400
Speaker 2: like I've got my.

407
00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,119
Speaker 3: Studio turn these out let's take a break. When we

408
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,720
Speaker 3: come back, we'll see what forgeries old Tony had cooking

409
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:45,440
Speaker 3: out zarin.

410
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:46,359
Speaker 2: Yes.

411
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:51,120
Speaker 3: Hello. When we left off, Tony Tetro was churning out

412
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,439
Speaker 3: fake masters, selling them to random millionaires and billionaires and

413
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:55,880
Speaker 3: auction houses.

414
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,240
Speaker 2: Fast as a butter maker makes butter.

415
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,879
Speaker 3: Exactly. I want to go to these Texas billionaires houses

416
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,120
Speaker 3: and find out if they've got that. You know, First

417
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 3: of all, I really don't.

418
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 2: I was just about to say, you said that sentence.

419
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 2: But anyway, you are a bunch of SAPs, So I

420
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 2: would want to see if I wouldn't want.

421
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 3: To see, like where the how they brag about it

422
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,919
Speaker 3: and what anyway, So one of the auction houses that

423
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 3: he sold to was in Sherman Oaks, California, and it

424
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 3: was owned by Marc Henry Sowiki. March of eighty nine,

425
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 3: Siwiki gets charged with ten counts of grand theft and

426
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 3: art forgery. We a whack bubba ba busted. He made

427
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 3: a plea bargain in exchange for three years probation, a

428
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 3: thousand hours of community service, and seventy eight thousand dollars

429
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 3: in restitution. Siwiki agreed to wear a wire in an

430
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 3: effort to catch Tetro. Oh, so siwiki he arranged a

431
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:47,920
Speaker 3: meeting with Tetro at Tetro's condo. They chatted about mutual friends,

432
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,679
Speaker 3: art debts, gossip, what have you. Siwiki got Tetro on

433
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 3: tape talking about he quote did a chagole. When siwiki

434
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,920
Speaker 3: asked if other Chagall paintings were in the works, Tetro said, yeah,

435
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,440
Speaker 3: it's all on tape. Yeah, in an interview. This is

436
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 3: how Tetro put it. It's a sad thing to say,

437
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 3: but I learned of Chagall's death because all the messages

438
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 3: on my answering machine were from art dealers trying to

439
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 3: contact me requesting Chagall paintings and lithographs. That's when I

440
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 3: knew I could do very successful in this. In fact,

441
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 3: I bought a Rolls Royce. The next day. Everybody got

442
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 3: mad at me because I doubled my prices. So He's

443
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 3: just like, yeah, he asked me for a Shagall. Let

444
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 3: me tell you why, because I'm the best at it.

445
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 2: Shagall dropped and all of a sudden, I was like, whoa,

446
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:32,639
Speaker 2: I'm daddy about to make money.

447
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 3: So siwiki, he testified that he saw Tetro practicing the

448
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 3: signatures of the original artists on scrap paper and notepads

449
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,360
Speaker 3: and then like on the backs of damaged artwork.

450
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 2: But he doesn't do that. I mean my dark chest

451
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:47,640
Speaker 2: Brock is work.

452
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 3: So siwiki. He told authorities that he did about one

453
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars of business with Tetro between eighty four

454
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 3: and eighty nine. He sold hundreds of works by Tetro

455
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 3: passed off his Ali Mirro Yamagatta. So he's just churning.

456
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 2: Smart market though.

457
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, as a result of this recording, though, Tetro's

458
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 3: condo was raided by county investigators. He was arrested and

459
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 3: charged with thirty eight felony counts of forging lithographs of

460
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,920
Speaker 3: paintings by Mark Schagal Mirro Rockwell.

461
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 2: He's doing Norman Rockwells singer rock Well.

462
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 3: Someone was watching him, twenty nine counts of forging Hero Yamagata.

463
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 3: Remember Gary Helton, the La County District Attorney's investigators. Yeah,

464
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 3: a little call back. He conducted a sixteen person raid

465
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 3: on the condo. Tetro's lithographs and paintings were loaded into

466
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 3: one van and a steakbed truck, just like there were

467
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 3: so many this like this condo was like three levels.

468
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 2: When you said steakbed truck for a moment, because it

469
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 2: was you saying it, I had to picture a truck

470
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: with a bed that was a stake.

471
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 3: With a giant curtains, the wooden fence.

472
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: Did you pull out No, total.

473
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 3: That the truck of the bed at the bed of

474
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 3: the truck. But it's a cartoon stake.

475
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 2: Cartoons steak. There was a cartoon wolf looking at it

476
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna.

477
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 3: Eat Yeah, So yeah, they just throw it. They threw

478
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 3: it on a comically large cartoon steak. Helton said he

479
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 3: found Tetro's pieces on display at the Carol Lawrence Galleries

480
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 3: in Beverly Hills, Studio forty seven in New York, and

481
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 3: at galleries in Japan. So he's like, I have scoured

482
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 3: the earth during the raid Cleveland. Some of Tetro's Yamagotta

483
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 3: pieces were overlooked, weren't h Tetro turned around and sold

484
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 3: those to old friends, including Ken Kettner, a mortgage bank.

485
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 3: What are you gonna get right? Here's what Ketner had

486
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 3: to say. I have a couple of real chagalls and

487
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 3: some of Tony's chagalls, and I have a lot of

488
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 3: fun with them. No one can tell the difference. I

489
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 3: also have a genuine Yamagatda that cost me seventy five

490
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 3: hundred dollars. After his arrest, Tony sold me five or

491
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 3: six of his Yama goddas for one thousand dollars. For

492
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 3: all of them aren't bad and they were definitely purchased

493
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 3: as tetros cat nern.

494
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 2: Just sounds like that guy's a liar.

495
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 3: I have a lot of fun with it.

496
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, fun with it. I just lay down on

497
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 2: my bed. I cover myself with them on paintings.

498
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 3: Giggles. Why were some of the pieces overlooked? You're wondering, Well.

499
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 2: Were some of the pieces over Let me refer to

500
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 2: I'm wondering.

501
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 3: Let me refer you to one of your favorite Reddit posts.

502
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 2: Oh of course, please the one where the.

503
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 3: Person is living with their girlfriend in a house that

504
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 3: the girlfriend owns, and they find out the girlfriend has

505
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 3: a secret room.

506
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 2: Actually my.

507
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 3: Secret room, living together for three years. Didn't know about

508
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 3: the secret room.

509
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 2: How I love it?

510
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 3: I know you do well.

511
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: That in the beans and these are my favorites. So

512
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 2: you ask, is it my birthday?

513
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 3: I want you to picture it? You are an official

514
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 3: Tony Tetro copy of a Salvador Dolli piece. You've been

515
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 3: in this dark, secret room in Tetro's house for a while.

516
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 3: You normally hear laughter and funky disco music coming through

517
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 3: the walls. Not lately. The other day you heard a

518
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 3: terrible racket, a bunch of heavy footsteps, drawers being opened

519
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 3: and slammed, piles of stuff being pushed off a desk

520
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 3: to the ground, breaking glass, wallpaper being torn from the walls.

521
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 3: You were terrified. After what seemed like forever, the noise stopped.

522
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 3: A couple of days went by. Then you heard it,

523
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 3: the sound of Tony Tetro's feet, your papa. You hear

524
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 3: him push the button to open the door to his

525
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 3: secret room, where you and your scores of other fakes

526
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 3: rest quietly on the walls and stack neatly on the floor.

527
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 3: The door creaks opened, and there's Tony Tetro. He and

528
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 3: a friend and a crew of six day laborers rush

529
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 3: into the room and scoop up the paintings you included.

530
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 3: Tony Tetro grabs you himself. You try to whisper to him,

531
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 3: I least you dann whisper at zaren whisper, I missed you, daddy,

532
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 3: do it?

533
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 2: I missed you daddy.

534
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 3: There it is uh, you go unheard. But as you

535
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 3: as you get tossed into a truck and you peel

536
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 3: out into the cool night, you know you are safe.

537
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 3: Yama Goatta thought Tetro's copies weren't that bad quote. I

538
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 3: just don't know why he doesn't establish his own way.

539
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 3: Having talent to paint in general is one thing, but

540
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 3: artists must also have a passion for creation before painting exists.

541
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 3: I paint a very tranquil image. It represents my feelings,

542
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 3: my senses, my memories, and you can't just copy those.

543
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 3: Not being able to copy my passion and my energy

544
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 3: means people buyers can't find it in his copies. Yes,

545
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 3: hero Yamagata, I'm right there with you. That's my feeling.

546
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 2: As a copy I have to dig it.

547
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 3: So according to Tetro quote, I enjoyed doing a renoir

548
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: and using his pastel colors, learning how he would fuse

549
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 3: everything around the subject until everything was blurred except the

550
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 3: subject's face. Then he'd put a splash of color over here,

551
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 3: and I'd understand why he did it. I didn't understand

552
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 3: why he did it just by looking at it. I

553
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 3: never really had a tremendous desire to be a famous artist,

554
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 3: but I enjoyed painting and I enjoyed copying. Yeah, there

555
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 3: it is.

556
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 2: I mean, you can't really argue with his logic. Look,

557
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 2: I didn't want to be at the top of the mountain.

558
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 2: I just like walking.

559
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 3: He didn't like being called a forger though, Well, yeah,

560
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 3: he said quote forgery indicates an intent to defraud. And

561
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 3: I never sold anything as real. I prefer the term reproductions.

562
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 3: In my definition, an exact copy as close to original

563
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 3: as you can do. Every one of my friends knew

564
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 3: what I did. You know, what do you do for

565
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 3: a living? I copy masters. I even had business cards

566
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 3: which said Anthony tetro Art reproductions. I sold them as

567
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 3: reproductions or emulations done by me. I was very specific

568
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 3: about it.

569
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: I don't believe that.

570
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 3: I don't need that.

571
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, so your friends know this. Do your

572
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 2: clients notice the ones who are paying the money. I

573
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 2: understand that you got word around.

574
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 3: It could be discovered in the Grand tradition.

575
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 2: Are you lying by a mission? Sirs?

576
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 3: Question of all of our rude rude criminals on this show.

577
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: He wrote a memoir, of course, the most literate group

578
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: in the world, by.

579
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 3: The way, and of course it's called con Slash Artist,

580
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 3: The Life and Crimes of the World's Greatest Art Forger. Now,

581
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 3: this man just said he's not a forger, but he

582
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 3: titled his.

583
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 2: Right.

584
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 3: It was co written by gi Imperio Ambrosi, which is

585
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 3: a great name.

586
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 2: Totally, I'm all about that. I come across Jimpero.

587
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 3: Ambrosi said, quote, you always think of the forger duping

588
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 3: the client, but in this case the client was the dealer,

589
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 3: and the dealer would commission him to do it. They

590
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 3: just say, hey, I need fifty picassos, give me twenty moros.

591
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 3: I need ten dollis.

592
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: So the client was the dupe.

593
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was saying that it's all on the all

594
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 3: on the art dealers. This is Tetro said. I started

595
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 3: making a lot of lithographs of some other artists whose

596
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 3: name I can't say. I made so many of his

597
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 3: lithographs and I sold them to this big art dealer.

598
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 3: He sold them to galleries all over the place, and

599
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 3: then he the original artist, found out I did them.

600
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 3: He went to all the art dealers and galleries and

601
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 3: went out of his way to tell them to watch

602
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 3: out for me. Then they contact me and wanted me

603
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 3: to work for them. That's how it really started.

604
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 2: And why would Banksy do that?

605
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 3: I love that he won't tell them, you know, to

606
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 3: remain nameless.

607
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, now I'm curious who that is so much.

608
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 3: Tetro a fixture in La. He cruises around and either

609
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 3: is Rolls Royce Silver Spirit or he's Tutelin and one

610
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 3: of the two Ferraris he owned. He had a Lamborghini.

611
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: Does he live? Do we know anything about the identifying

612
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: aspects of these cars?

613
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 3: Well he is a little bit. So he owned multiple

614
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 3: exotic cars. He lived in that custom decorated tri level

615
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 3: condo in Claremont. He whisked away all the time to

616
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 3: roam Paris, money Carlo. It wasn't really the life of an.

617
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: Art forger No or like Robin Leech.

618
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 3: There's money in it, but not that much money. So

619
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 3: rumor starts circulating that he's a drug dealer. This is how.

620
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: Talk.

621
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 3: It's funds to it. So he said, quote, I even

622
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 3: had a friend, this girl, one of my friends would say,

623
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 3: oh yeah, I get all my drugs from Tony, and

624
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 3: I'd go, why the hell would you say something like that?

625
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 3: Then I'd get people calling me for cocaine and I'd

626
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 3: be all, why are you calling me? I don't deal drugs,

627
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 3: and they'd go, oh yeah, and then click they'd hang

628
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 3: up and be mad at me. This one time, this big,

629
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 3: big drug dealer, we were in a bar and this

630
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 3: is called Magnolia's Peach and where we walked out and

631
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 3: he says, Tony, I want to show you something, and

632
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 3: he opened up the trunk of his Toyota Tursell. I

633
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 3: think it was the first time they made the Toyota Trussell.

634
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 3: Do they still make them? I don't know, but it

635
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 3: was the most inexpensive Toyota ever made, I don't know,

636
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 3: and it was small. He opened up the trunk and

637
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 3: there was nothing but bricks of cocaine in there in

638
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 3: a car that costs five thousand and seven thousand, And

639
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 3: I go, why are you showing this to me? And

640
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 3: he goes and he goes, oh, I don't know. I

641
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 3: thought you might like it. By the way, if I

642
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 3: don't make it home, you're dead. Why would I say

643
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 3: a word? But they got a kick out of it

644
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 3: because I got all the heat, just going.

645
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: Through the world. Why are you asking him? Why are

646
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 2: you Why is this happening here?

647
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 3: He's so unhinged to me, you start.

648
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 2: Making the Toyota Choseell, by the way, was that.

649
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 3: He had no visible source of interest, A naive.

650
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: Child wandering innocently through the world.

651
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 3: No inheritance, no apparent career. He's not a lot of winner,

652
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 3: so he just has questions. I would automatically assume drugs,

653
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: and I feel like saying that all your friends call

654
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 3: you asking for drugs.

655
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: Could they be a jiggowe?

656
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 3: But you don't have them. It's a cover for when

657
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 3: you get busted completely. It's like his paintings. They're reproductions.

658
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: People are calling me by accident, and.

659
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 2: Its happened to always be at the junction of crime.

660
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 2: There are two crimes tending together. What happened to be there?

661
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 3: I didn't want that guy to drive a terceill of

662
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 3: coke tiles like me.

663
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: He just showed up. I barely knew the guy his.

664
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: Okay, So for this is a Tetris says again. For

665
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: well over ten years, every cop in this valley and

666
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 3: many people who didn't know me person, we're certain I

667
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 3: was a drug dealer. I must have heard it myself

668
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: conservatively three hundred times. And the more I defended myself,

669
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 3: the more I wasn't believed. Drive down the street in

670
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 3: a Ferrari and a cop is certain you're a drug dealer,

671
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 3: and you're constantly harassed, constantly getting tickets for nothing, constantly

672
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: getting your car searched. So there was some satisfaction, even

673
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 3: some pride when I was arrested that they finally, these

674
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 3: idiots knew that I was an artist. Final I got

675
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 3: fosted for the right thing. Enter Mark Manning, chief press

676
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 3: agent for Exclusive News Relations of Los Angeles. Quote, we

677
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 3: specialize in celebrity repositioning people who have been misunderstood by

678
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 3: the public and the media.

679
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 2: I'm a spin doctor.

680
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 3: So they repped Tetro. But there was a fee, of course,

681
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 3: of course he paid them with an oil of Winston Churchill.

682
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 3: Wait what, and then a percentage of the proceeds from

683
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,239
Speaker 3: the sale of a replica of a nineteen fifty eight

684
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 3: Ferrari Testosa racecar that Tetro spent six years and several

685
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 3: thousand dollars building.

686
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 2: So he not only makes fake paintings, he also replicates

687
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 2: ferraris exactly.

688
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 3: So there were only two TR fifty eights built and

689
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 3: neither of them survived racing. So Tetro he purchased an

690
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 3: old Ferrari streetcar to get the chassis, the engine and

691
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 3: the transmission. Then he shortened and narrowed the frame and

692
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 3: restored the engine to racing conditions. This is how he

693
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 3: said it quote. I went to finite detail in recreating

694
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 3: everything exactly the way it was originally. It is a

695
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 3: perfect recreation. So, like you're saying, just like his paintings,

696
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 3: he fakes a Ferrari. Yeah, so he sold that and

697
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 3: that's how he paid for the press agent back. You know,

698
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 3: we get back there. Tetro pleads not guilty to conspiracy

699
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 3: and forgery at a preliminary hearing where the siwiki tape

700
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 3: was played. We can make it wat yep. On June seventh,

701
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety one, mistrial was declared after the jurors of

702
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 3: the LA Superior Court said to Judge John Henny that

703
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 3: there was a deadlock and they were unable to reach

704
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 3: a verdict. So the trial gone on for a month

705
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: and they deliberated for seventeen hours. According to Deputy District

706
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 3: Attorney Riva Getz quote. Obviously, I'm very sorry that the

707
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 3: jurors could not agree on a verdict, but my confidence

708
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 3: in the case remains.

709
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 2: That's why they call me.

710
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 3: Oh and then went on to say that some of

711
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 3: the jurors quote felt the tape was not as clear

712
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: as they would have liked. H So the Suwiki tape

713
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 3: didn't bring what they thought it would. As for Tetro quote,

714
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 3: the prosecution would put ads in the paper looking for victims.

715
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 3: Did you buy a fake Schagal? Did you buy a

716
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 3: fake Dolly? Did you buy a fake Moro? Did you

717
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 3: buy a fake Rembrand? Did you buy fake anything?

718
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 2: Sucker?

719
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 3: And so we expected like five to ten people to

720
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 3: come forward grieving. Nobody came. I had a hung jury.

721
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

722
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 3: So he may have had a hung jury then, but

723
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 3: his legal woes were far from over. Let's take a

724
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 3: break and let these ads soothe our souls. When we

725
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 3: come back, I'll tell you what happens next. For old Tone,

726
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 3: look welcome. Hey, what's it so Tony Tetrom He got

727
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 3: a hung jury, but the prosecutors wouldn't give up. They

728
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 3: retried him. He was released on ten thousand dollars bail

729
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 3: with orders to return to court on July first for

730
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 3: further motions. So in that time he just liquidates his

731
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 3: assets in order to fund his defense. He sold the

732
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 3: exotic cars, he sold the tri level condo. He moved

733
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 3: to an apartment in Upland, California, which is maybe not

734
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 3: as pascious. Clear he started he started driving a Honda Civic. Oh,

735
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 3: life was different, a little bit different.

736
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: Was this like a recreated Honda Ci to the details?

737
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 3: It was on like you know, a Hugo's train. So

738
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 3: here's what Tetra said about this time.

739
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 2: Oh my god, so good.

740
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 3: Quote. Robert Shapiro was my attorney. Oh yes, I was

741
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 3: his client. Just before oj I canned him, he wanted

742
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 3: to just plea me to the judge. I said, no,

743
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 3: I want my day in court. I'll tell you a

744
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 3: tidbit of info that you'd probably never get in the

745
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 3: Australian press. Bob Shapiro, he never ever ever went to trial.

746
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 3: His thing. All over the US, every attorney knew that

747
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 3: Bob's thing was he would plea bargain his clients. That

748
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 3: was his thing. Oj originally went to Howard Wiseman, the

749
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 3: best attorney in LA. He's the one who got Bob

750
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 3: Dolorian off, the guy who made cars. Then OJ went

751
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 3: to Bob Shapiro, and Shapiro smelled fame and fortune and

752
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 3: got his dream team together and they went to trial.

753
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 3: But he wasn't going to go to trial for me.

754
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 3: I wanted my day in court. But anyway, they charged

755
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 3: me for everything. Two thousand dollars for incomplete telephone calls, incomplete,

756
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 3: not counting the completed calls. I spent thousands of dollars

757
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 3: for parking to go to court, and they just hosed me.

758
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 3: I didn't make a penny for four and a half years.

759
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 3: All I did was spend, spend, spend. They'd say, Oh,

760
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 3: I need another twenty thousand dollars, I need another thirty

761
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 3: thousand dollars for this and this. So half a million

762
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 3: dollars later, I'm sitting there. I have a hung jury

763
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 3: and they're going to try me again. I got no money,

764
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 3: I have no work. So they offered me a year.

765
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 3: I said I'll take it. If i'd have gone with Shapiro,

766
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 3: he would have gotten me a year and a half.

767
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 3: I should have done that. I would have kept everything.

768
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: Wow.

769
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 3: So he never listened to Bob Shapiro.

770
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 2: What a weird assessment of the American legals. I know,

771
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 2: I know, I can't argue with them, but totally so.

772
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,919
Speaker 3: He may have been living in Upland and tootling around

773
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 3: in a Honda, but he kept his home decor game tight.

774
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: He had a large framed paper sculpture, an original by

775
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 3: Bill Mack, over his sofa. Have you heard of Bill Mack?

776
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so.

777
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 3: I hadn't either, So I checked out his website and

778
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 3: I just can't. I can't build Mac. Here's this about

779
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 3: me on the home page of his website. Bill Mack

780
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 3: has no mentors. There is nowhere to go to learn

781
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 3: his sculpture techniques. No one teaches his sculpture technique. Sculptor

782
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 3: Bill Mack works in such a rare art form that

783
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 3: coming up with a name to describe it has been

784
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 3: only slightly less arduous than creating the art itself. Bill

785
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 3: Mack Sculpture, simply put, is emotional elegance defined in sculpture.

786
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 2: Emotional please emotional.

787
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 3: Please go look at Bill Max's website. Emotional, Yeah, look

788
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 3: at his website.

789
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 2: I handle this much emotional, can't. It's going to blow

790
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 2: your hands like inelegant emotion it's just like, I.

791
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 3: Just can't just screaming, Tetro. Could He had him over

792
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 3: the a permit. He also had a faux lalique crystal sculpture. Yeah,

793
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 3: he had recast bronzes that he had traded for one

794
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 3: of his chagalls. And he had a lithograph that had

795
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 3: a genuine John Lennon autograph on it. All right, so Tetro.

796
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 3: He also had an enormous painting of the Death of

797
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 3: d'Artagnan that he paid one thousand dollars for.

798
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: Huh, the Death of d'Artagnan. Why does you assigned to

799
00:38:59,160 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: the Fourth Musketeer.

800
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 3: Well, no, he didn't want the painting. He wanted the

801
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 3: canvas because he said he was going to pay he

802
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 3: was going to paint a version of Rembrandts The Night

803
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 3: Watch over it.

804
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 2: Oh wow, so good, so Tetro.

805
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 3: He also had Dolly's Nuclear Disintegration of the Head of

806
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 3: a Virgin And despite the agent look of the piece

807
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 3: like it had a Dolly signature, a plaque that gives

808
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 3: the date of the creation of the painting is nineteen

809
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 3: fifty three. It's actually a Tetrod. Yeah, he said, it's

810
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 3: not a copy of Dolly's work, but an emulation. Quote.

811
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 3: I prefer doing emulations more than copying. When asked about

812
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 3: the plaque that had Dolly's name in nineteen fifty three

813
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 3: on it, he said, quote, job worth doing is worth doing?

814
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 2: Well, you say that all the time. I do so.

815
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 3: According to Tetro, quote, I think we are going to

816
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 3: show in essence that I painted and other people did

817
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 3: the crime. I never represented them as real. Other people

818
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 3: sold My stuff is real.

819
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 2: What are you okay? You looked into this guy? You

820
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 2: tell me this st It seems like he's positioned himself

821
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: at the crossroads of crimes and acting like I'm just

822
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 2: happy I'm here directing traffic and innocent cop. Are you

823
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: mad at the cop when there's a crocity, I'm.

824
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 3: Up front there, the crooked one. Do you believe it? No?

825
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 2: Okay?

826
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 3: But I love it. I love it. So Tetro's attorney

827
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 3: not Robert Shapiro. I think he had a public defender

828
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 3: at this point. I bet he said. Tetro was obviously

829
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 3: not trying to sell his pieces as authentic. Just look

830
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 3: at the prices, because he would sell the pieces to

831
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 3: Suwiki for three hundred dollars five hundred dollars and SWICKI

832
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 3: would then turn around and sell the pieces in his

833
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 3: gallery for anywhere between fifteen hundred and seventy five hundred.

834
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so clearly there's the markup.

835
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, here's what Tetro said about that. I want to

836
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 3: also emphasize that most of the work that I do

837
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 3: was not for the art industry at all. Art brokers

838
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 3: contacted me. They came to me because they found that

839
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 3: I could copy anything and emulate anything, and they said

840
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 3: there's a market for excellent copies. So I started doing

841
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 3: them and in fact developed a printing method that is unique,

842
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 3: and I did colored lithographs Chagall, dalis Moreau. How is

843
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 3: that not for the art industry if you're doing this

844
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 3: for the art.

845
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, I mean, like I'm gonna put these criminal terms,

846
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 2: I can very well understand if you're looking to get

847
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 2: busted in say pot right, pot growers are easy to

848
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 2: bust because one, they make for great headlines. Well, we

849
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 2: went right to the source. They have to sit put,

850
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 2: you know what their habits are going to be. Everybody

851
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 2: else is hard moving targets to hit. So he is

852
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 2: the one. I'm like, these dealers, you got to prove that,

853
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 2: you got to audit all their stuff. It's so much

854
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 2: more work. Nobody wants to do that. You get him.

855
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: You're like, look, welcome what we did. Yeah, right up

856
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 2: the headlines. Exactly Why does he not get that? That's

857
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: what I know. Otherwise he may just be lying and

858
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,439
Speaker 2: pretending like he doesn't get anything. Yeah.

859
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 3: But still so he was up against an eight year sentence. Yeah,

860
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 3: and the prosecutor, Deputy District Attorney Reva gets quote, gets

861
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 3: her man, he has taken the work of these artists

862
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 3: and made the market unreliable and thrown into question for

863
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,280
Speaker 3: most people, the viability of the entire graphics market.

864
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 2: A little bit of that lady.

865
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 3: So in eighty nine he gets convicted for conspiracy and

866
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 3: sixty seven counts of art forgery. He did an interview

867
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 3: in ninety one and he said, quote, I would like

868
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 3: to say to you right now that I'm never going

869
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 3: to paint again for a living. Yet I can't say that.

870
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 3: I can't yet, I can't say that to be truthful.

871
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 3: I would like to you want you can bet I'd

872
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 3: stamp copy or reproduction or emulation all over the back

873
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 3: of it. He's not going to stop. February ninety three,

874
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 3: he pleads no contest to one count of attempted theft,

875
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 3: account of conspiracy, six counts of forgery. He gets released

876
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 3: from jail in ninety four, and his sentence included two

877
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 3: hundred hours of community service six months in a work

878
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 3: release program to paint prototypes for traffic safety manuals. It

879
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 3: is five years of probation. And in order to paint

880
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 3: a mural on a public building, They're like, let's put

881
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 3: this to work.

882
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: Let's make this work for us, those civic improvement.

883
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 3: He also has to obey a court order to sign

884
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 3: all of his works with his name only. And this

885
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 3: is how he's like loving this quote all of them

886
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 3: asked to not put my stamp on the back. Oh

887
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 3: my stamp. I have to put that on everything. I'm

888
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 3: the only person in the United States that has to.

889
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 3: I'm ordered by the courts. I put three big stamps

890
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 3: on them so they don't get go into commerce.

891
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 2: Yes, he's like a court guy.

892
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. None of the art dealers that he worked with

893
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 3: had any charges pressed against them. When Tetro was asked

894
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 3: what happened to them, he said, quote nothing. They all

895
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 3: lawyered up, waiting for me to rat or drop a dime,

896
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 3: and they all lawyered up in nothing, and they certainly

897
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 3: wouldn't commission me to do any work. When I got

898
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 3: out of jail, they wouldn't talk to me. And then

899
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 3: about ten years after there were only two of them

900
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 3: that I talked to. One of them bought me a

901
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 3: new Mercedes. I didn't have a car.

902
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 2: Like, what story? Do you always do cocaine before you

903
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 2: tell a story? Is that? Okay?

904
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 3: Now go well? He never lost the support of his friends.

905
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 3: Do you remember mortgage banker Ken Kettner? This is it

906
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 3: has a little fun with it. He said. I like

907
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 3: Tony very much, a gracious guy who's always been there

908
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,720
Speaker 3: when you need him. And it went beyond Ken. Seven

909
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 3: hundred of Tetro's friends came together for a birthday celebration

910
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 3: in an upscale hotel with a birthday cake that had

911
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 3: a one eyed Tetro painting a Picasso. Okay, so he

912
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 3: currently Tetro currently creates master copies for a list of

913
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 3: exclusive clients from his studio in southern California. Good for

914
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 3: Him Focus, a BBC Science and Technology magazine, produced an

915
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 3: article instructing people how to create their own fake pieces

916
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 3: using Tetro's techniques like how to Wow twenty ten, he

917
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 3: legally changed his name to Antonio Montana Tetro.

918
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 2: Why Montana?

919
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 3: Because he went to Costa Rica and when he got there,

920
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: all of his friends said, Hey, Tony Montana's in town.

921
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 3: Tony Montana from Scarface.

922
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 2: Oh got it, and so he wanted to add it.

923
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 2: He's like, I gotta put that in there.

924
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 3: I'm not a drug dealer. I'm just gonna changed my

925
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 3: name to Tony to Montana, the.

926
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: Greatest fictional drug dealer ever represented on films? What in

927
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 2: the what?

928
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 3: What even is this? Twenty eleven, there was a competition

929
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 3: announced the Australian Art series. Hotel Group had this thing

930
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 3: for guests, like they could they could get a chance

931
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 3: to pick an original Warhol valued at like twenty thousand

932
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 3: dollars from a row of fakes produced by quote the

933
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 3: world's greatest living art forger. So whoever picked the original

934
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 3: Warhol could keep it. But if you chose incorrectly, you

935
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 3: would win that Warhol by Tony Tetro.

936
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 2: Did you get to buy it? Did again?

937
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 3: Twenty grand Well, the contest was controversial. Yeah, it sounds

938
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 3: like so Will Dieg, the chief executive of the Art series.

939
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 3: Hotel claimed that the contest was endorsed by the Warhol Foundation,

940
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 3: and what do they care about that? They said, as

941
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 3: long as the advertising material doesn't use any Warhol images,

942
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 3: go for it, which, wow, do.

943
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 2: Keep that relevant? We don't care.

944
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the Warhol Foundation said they were quote appalled

945
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 3: to learn that a hotel would think it wise to

946
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 3: commission forgery in an attempt to market its services.

947
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: Come.

948
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 3: So they probably made it like you could win a

949
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 3: Warhol and they're not gonna say, surrounded by faking Tetro's.

950
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 3: So Tetros still hustling. That memoir was twenty twenty two.

951
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 2: Every day I'm hustling.

952
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 3: I'm going to add con slash artists to the book

953
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 3: club for sure, staying even more relevant. Twenty twenty three,

954
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 3: he started a Reddit.

955
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 2: Thread dija twenty twenty three.

956
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 3: This year, Yeah, this year he started a Reddit thread

957
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 3: where he announced a documentary about his life called The

958
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 3: Royal Stunt.

959
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: I don't believe it exists.

960
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, me neither. So right, what are our final words

961
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 3: from old Tony Tetroeh?

962
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 2: Please quote today?

963
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 3: I'm no longer a criminal. Today on my criminal record

964
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 3: it says not guilty and I have nothing on my record.

965
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 3: I was so lily white. I can't stand myself. I've

966
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 3: done nothing wrong.

967
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 2: There you go.

968
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 3: What's your ridiculous takeaways? Aaron?

969
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 2: I believe it was once said I knew John Kennedy.

970
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 2: John Kennedy was a friend of mine, and you, sir,

971
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 2: are no John Kennedy. I would like to say that

972
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 2: about Elmer de Hory. I once heard a great story

973
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 2: about Elmer d'hoy and now I've heard a story about you, sir,

974
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 2: and you are no Elmer de'hory.

975
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 3: That's beautiful, excellent.

976
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 2: What's yours? Elizabeth? Easy? This is you know, he just

977
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:17,439
Speaker 2: flows out of the mouth.

978
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 3: Yes. I love when we have these threads that lead

979
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 3: to I'm looking for what's going to spin off of

980
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 3: Tony Tetro Because we had Clifford Irving totally Elmire de horri.

981
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 3: Now we got Tony Tetro connected like I kind of

982
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 3: feel like it's going to be the Ecclestone thing.

983
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 2: Probably you got a three people to look into that.

984
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I love these chains that they create.

985
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 2: That's it. Maybe Kent Kenter maybe dig into him.

986
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 3: Can He's so fun. I just have fun with him.

987
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 3: It's fun painting it.

988
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 2: Turns out he's like something crazy for it, like done

989
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 2: something horrific we can't even.

990
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 3: Talk about, just like we have to bleep out his

991
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 3: name on Future Anyway, That's all I have. Okay, you

992
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 3: can find us online at ridiculous crime dot com. There's merch.

993
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 3: I think I've got some T shirt ideas.

994
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 2: Oh you got a new one?

995
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: Do it?

996
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 2: Do it.

997
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 3: We're also at ridiculous Crime on Is Twitter still a thing?

998
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 3: Does it exist? It's called x No I'm saying, but

999
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 3: just in general, is it still up?

1000
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah? I know it's still there if you want to

1001
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: go get like a horrific Yeah.

1002
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,479
Speaker 3: I deactivated. I deactivated Twitter.

1003
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 2: I'm not on there anymore.

1004
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 3: Give us. We're on Instagram. I think we're on threads.

1005
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't go on any of this.

1006
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 3: Don't email us at ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com.

1007
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 3: Do leave a talk back on iHeart app. We've been

1008
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 3: getting some good totally. Yeah, there you go. Ridiculous Crime

1009
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 3: is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnette, produced and

1010
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 3: edited by Dave Tonio Montana Cousten. Research is by Marissa

1011
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 3: Brown and Andrea Song Sharpen Tear, co authors of research

1012
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 3: my life learning about these chuckleheads. The theme song is

1013
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 3: by Thomas quit Plan On my Phone, Lee and Travis

1014
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 3: want to buy a Toyota Tursel Dutton. Executive producers are

1015
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 3: Plea Bargain expert Ben Bolin and Kincaid authenticator Noel Brown.

1016
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 2: Ridicous Crime Say It One More Timequeous Crime.

1017
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts

1018
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: from my heart Radio. Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1019
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.