1 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: Ah, beaut force. If it doesn't work, you're just not 2 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military 3 00:00:25,520 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: news and straight talk with the guys and the community 4 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: socrep dot com on time on Target. Jack Worth is 5 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: back here because the last show is just me and 6 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: Curt Frowder, which is interesting, and you talked about the 7 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: gun control stuff. Really, but I know that the big 8 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: thing right now for you is the Tiger Swan piece 9 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 1: that you wrote, and you've been able to like take 10 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: time with more of these investigative pieces lately. WI Great, Yeah, Yeah, 11 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: I've been working on that story for you know, four 12 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: or five weeks. Um. It's one of those stories that 13 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: I would not have believed myself, you know, if somebody 14 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: came to me, if if you know, and this is 15 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 1: my own, um, you know, initial bias, you know, if 16 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: a protester had come to me, or they prefer to 17 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: be called water protectors, but whatever the case, maybe if 18 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: one of them had come to me and said, you know, look, 19 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: you know there's private security contractors coming into our camps 20 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: and stirring things up and calling for violence and doing 21 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: these sort of provocative actions, I wouldn't have believed. M 22 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: I'd be like, now, that's that's nonsense. That didn't happen. Um, 23 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: But it did happen. And UM the gist of the 24 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: articles and it's actually an incredibly complicated story, and you 25 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: could write a book about it easily because there's just 26 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: so much to it. But what happened was you had, UM, 27 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: the protests kicking off at some point, and you had 28 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: like ten tho people in the in the camps out 29 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 1: at Standing Rock. UM. They were protesting the construction of 30 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: the Dakota Access Pipeline, which runs through North Dakota, South Dakota, 31 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: um Iowa, and in Illinois. And in North Dakota it 32 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: runs through or past the northern tip of the Standing 33 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: Rock Indian Reservation. And there's My article is about the 34 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: private security contractors. So I'm not going to get too 35 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 1: much into the environmentalism or the Native American land rights. 36 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: All those things are important conversations, but it's not the 37 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: focus of what I wrote. UM. It's such a big issue, 38 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: you have to focus figure out where you're gonna put 39 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: your focus on, right. So UM. As as time went on, 40 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: the company Energy Transfer Partners hired numerous different security contracting 41 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: companies to run security for them. There was Layton, there 42 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: was r g T, there was s RC, there was 43 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: ten Code. Um, there's about a half dozen different security companies, 44 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: and they were all kind of hired to do different 45 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: things or the same thing, but they were all doing 46 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: their own thing at the same time. So there is 47 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: no command and control element. There's no one really guiding things. 48 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: The director of security for E. T. P UM, I believe, 49 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: was really in over his head and that's why they 50 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: reached out to these different companies. At a certain point. 51 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: What happened was, and this is very funny, another company 52 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: called Silverton was out there also, And what happened was 53 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: that the security contractors we're having off the record conversations 54 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: with the FBI, and they said, well, look, there's a 55 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: bunch of Native Americans coming into this area. There's gonna 56 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: be a a sort of festival, a pow wow going on. Um, 57 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: there's no point to start in construction when all of 58 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: these Indians are going to be here. I mean that 59 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: it's like the worst time to start. So and it's 60 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: quite frankly, the plan was, you know, we're gonna wait 61 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: until they leave. Um, it's gonna start getting colder, winner's 62 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: gonna set in a lot of protesters are gonna leave, 63 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: and then when everyone has turned their backs, we're gonna 64 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: basically shove the pipeline down their throat and start construction. 65 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: Right from from their point of view, that was a 66 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: sensible plan. The FBI agreed to it and agreed with 67 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: this assessment, and they started nudging E t P. The 68 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: oil company in this direction. They're like, hey, wait a 69 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: little bit, um, and they told them, look, the FBI 70 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: doesn't have the assets, we don't have the ability to 71 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: keep things under you know, to protect you at this point, 72 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: just wait, waited out a little bit. Um. ETP agreed 73 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,559 Speaker 1: to this, and then for some reason on September two, 74 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: they agreed UM and then changed their mind and late 75 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: at night they said the next morning, you guys are 76 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: gonna be out there because we're gonna start construction. And 77 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: this resulted in UM was kind of there. There were 78 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: some sort of iconic moments I think out of Standing Rock, 79 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: and one of them was what unfolded that next day 80 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: around noon. Well, when they got um all the dog 81 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: handlers out there, who were not even supposed to be 82 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: out there yet because they were unlicensed. UM, they went 83 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: out there, the protesters broke down the fence. They started 84 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: charging the dogs and the contractors and then it gets 85 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: into this big tussle. Uh. You know, there's a wrestling 86 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: match between a contractor and one of the protesters. The dogs. 87 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: You know, the protesters taunted the dogs, the dogs bit 88 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: some people, some of the dogs got hurt. It was 89 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: a big mess, and all of this came out in 90 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: the international media and the we can look at, you know, 91 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: in a very pragmatic way, it was bad, but in um, 92 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: in regards to the optics, the the pr aspect of 93 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: it was really bad. I mean, this was this was 94 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: a strategic blunder by the oil company. And at that 95 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: point they said, okay, we need additional help out here. Um, 96 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: we need more security if we're going to go through 97 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: with construction. And that was when Tiger Swan came on 98 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: the scene. They reached out to Tiger Swan brought them 99 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: on in a very rapid fashion. It all came together 100 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: in like five working days, um, which is I don't 101 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: want to say unprecedented, but that's very fast for a 102 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: new contractor to be on boarded. And they had actual 103 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: people hitting the ground in North Dakota. You know, within 104 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: the week Um. So, ostensibly Tiger Swan was brought on 105 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: just to run command and control to kind of harmonize 106 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: the six or so other security agency, security contractor groups 107 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: that were out there. Um. But it became a lot 108 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: more than that. And Tiger Swan maintains to this day. 109 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: And I had some back and forth with them just yesterday, 110 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: Uh that they only ran command and control, that they 111 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: were acting essentially as consultants on the ground in North Dakota. 112 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: This is the biggest lie that they tell. I would say, 113 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: this is the most blatant lie that they tell, and 114 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: it's demonstrably false. Uh. They were not simply consultants. They 115 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: were not simply um running command and control putting together 116 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: power point slides. They were active participants in what was 117 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: happening out there. That you have physical, hard evidence I do. 118 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: I have. I have documents, I have the names, I've 119 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: intered photographs, photographs, I've interviewed the people involved. Um, there is. 120 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's just not true. I mean, 121 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: they did send people into these camps to infiltrate the camps, 122 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: to run human uh what you would call human intelligence. Uh. 123 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:50,239 Speaker 1: And now there's a difference between what may have been 124 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: in the contract, what they were hired to do and 125 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: what they actually did. And so I believe that there 126 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: was a lot of things that happened that the oil 127 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: company et P was unaware of. And I think even UM, 128 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: I would I have some leeway for the CEO of 129 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: Tiger Swan, James Reese UM, who's a retired Delta Force officer. 130 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: I think that he was not aware of everything that 131 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: happened out there, and at a certain point he was 132 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: made aware that, hey, there are illegal activities being done, 133 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: you know, in our name by our employees, and he 134 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: didn't take action. Um. Namely, what happened was another retired 135 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: Delta Force sergeant major was a program manager for Tiger 136 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: Swan out in North Dakota, and his name was John Porter. 137 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: He was the CEO of Tiger Swan James Reese. It 138 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: was his sergeant major. So it's an n CEO officer relationship. 139 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: Reese was the commander of first Troop A Squadron UH 140 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: and his sergeant major was John Porter. So Reese needed 141 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: to turn to somebody he could trust to run this 142 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: big oil contract. I mean, this was a big deal 143 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: for the company. We're making a lot of money at 144 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: one point, I was told they were making a million 145 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: dollars a month in pure profit. Um, so there's a 146 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: lot of money in this thing. And uh and John 147 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: Porter was the go to guy. UM. I left the 148 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: you know, I called John Porter yesterday morning. I left 149 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: a voicemail for him, and I haven't heard back from him. 150 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: So if you'd like to reach out and uh and 151 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: tell his side of the story, he can definitely, UM, 152 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: feel welcome to do that. There are six sides to 153 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: this story. There are actually more than six sides, so 154 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: I recognize that. But John Porter did some things that 155 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: he really shouldn't have been doing out there. Um. And 156 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: he blatantly blew off the law. Many times. He was 157 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: giving guys illegal orders, telling them, you know, to break 158 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: the legs of protesters. Uh. He would get on the radio, 159 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: pretending to be a protester, saying, come down to the bridge, 160 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: this is the North Bridge, come down fight us, you know, 161 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: come fight the cops. They're shooting at us. Get down here, 162 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: you know, all this kind of stuff. Um. He was 163 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: sending uh Tiger Swan employees to do so called penetration test, 164 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: striving the pickups right right into the camps just to 165 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: antagonize the protesters. And for Porter, this was all job security. 166 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: It was to artificially extend the contracts so that they 167 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 1: could cash in for longer. And this is the this 168 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: is the main point of the article. There are some 169 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: other creepy stuff that happened out there. Um, I'll tell 170 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: you for instance, Uh, there was a certain point, just 171 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: as Tiger Swan came on the scene, a bunch of protesters, 172 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: new protesters quote unquote protesters started showing up inside the camps. 173 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: They were calling for violence. They would say, let's let's 174 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: bring guns into the camps. Let's go shoot out the 175 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: lights in the construction camps, or I'm sorry, the construction site, 176 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: let's let's do this. They're calling for violent action. They're 177 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: calling for fighting the police. Now, the FBI, the Bureau 178 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: of Land Management, and the JTTF, we're all ready inside 179 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: the camps. They had their own infiltraders in there who 180 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: were just sitting there watching. They're just keeping they're just 181 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: doing their job, keeping an eye out in case things 182 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: turned ugly in the camps. They had some situational awareness. Um. 183 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: And when these new people, these new protesters showed up 184 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: calling for violence, they were like Okay, we need to 185 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: run this down to who are these people? So they 186 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: ran their names, they started running pictures, and they found 187 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: that these people have no digital fingerprints whatsoever. They're not 188 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 1: real people in as since they're operating under some some 189 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: sort of a cover. Um, this was dis concerning. So 190 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: now we know they're not And because of the deconfliction 191 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: process of the FBI and agencies like the d A, A, 192 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: t F and so on they use, they know these 193 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: aren't federal agents. But they're also not protesters. So who 194 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: are they? Where did they come from? Who put them 195 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: in the camp? When asked, John Porter stated that these 196 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: people were part of a special mission unit quote unquote 197 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: that John Reece Jim Reese had hired some sort of 198 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: special security, additional security that was runterally and it was 199 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: not being run by the Tiger Swan employees who were 200 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: sent out to Dapple sent out to North Dakota. It 201 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: was something else, was a like a separate, parallel endeavor 202 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: that was being run in a car departmentalized fashion. What 203 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 1: I obtained was the pictures of two of these nameless individuals, 204 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: and it's published in the story. Um, I have a 205 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: feeling I know who they are. Um, But the FBI 206 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,599 Speaker 1: was never able to identify them or other UM nameless 207 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: so called protesters who showed up in the camps trying 208 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: to stir things up. Um. So there's a lot of 209 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: creepy stuff that went down out there. And now Tiger 210 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: Swan's official position as they deny everything I'm saying, of 211 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: course they say this is absolutely false. Um, these statements 212 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: are made up. They must be so pissed that you 213 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 1: for writing this, well, because you're the only one writing 214 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: about it. Well, there is a sort of additional addendum 215 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: that I didn't um write in the article. UM, and 216 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: I don't want to get into it too much, but 217 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: the Intercept wrote a long piece about what happened at 218 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: Standing Rock, and a lot of it is about Tiger Swan. UM. 219 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: And they had a lot of documents leaked to them. 220 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: This was before I was, way before I was ever 221 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: working on the story. And UM, you know, the Intercept, 222 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: I think they didn't I guess you could say, I 223 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: think they did an admirable enough job with the documents 224 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: that had been leaked to them, but they clearly didn't 225 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: have any sources and um, and so their story is 226 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: kind of limited. In that sense. But there's a big 227 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: fallout because of that story. Um, Tiger Swan is expecting 228 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: to get oil security contracts in Louisiana, and because the 229 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: intercept blasted all that stuff out, Um, they lost that. Yeah. 230 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: Well now I'm guessing if you google Tiger Swan, your 231 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: article will probably be one of the first things to 232 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: pop up. I mean people, I I think the and 233 00:13:54,200 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: I wrote the article partially as a warning, and I 234 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: would say I wrote it as a warning to my 235 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: peer group, and you know, even guys who are a 236 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: little younger than I am. Um, some of the young 237 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: rangers out there, young green berets who come out of 238 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: the services and they are going to go, Um, they 239 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: want to become private security contractors. And that's fine, but 240 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: there are things they should be aware of, and they 241 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: should be um aware of, you know, the legalities. They 242 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: need to be very um weary of security contracting. Um. 243 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: They need to have their contracts, you know, perhaps looked 244 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: over by an attorney. They need to take steps to 245 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: protect themselves. I think what happened with Tiger Swan was 246 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: that because you had John Porter and Jim Reece, who 247 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: were retired Delta Forest guys that you had these young 248 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: rangers come out of the service and they still psychologically 249 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: they're still in this military hierarchy. And you know, these 250 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: guys are there Jay Sock heroes. And when someone like 251 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: John Porter comes to you he was a Delta sergeant 252 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: major and you were a sergeant or a corporal in 253 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: range of battalion and John Porter tells you to do something, 254 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: you assume that this decision has been vetted, that the 255 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: person who's telling you this is legit, you know, because 256 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: you're still mentally inside that military hierarchy, and guys need 257 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: to understand no, actually, they're not in the military anymore. 258 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: And you know, I had one conversation with a source 259 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: and he was like, you know, when these corporations hire 260 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: us to do things, they hire former Special Operations guys 261 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: because they think, you know, we're the dudes who will 262 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: do anything to get the job done. But then the 263 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: corporations expects you to do things that are totally illegal. 264 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, we could do that when we were 265 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: in uniform, um because we had the legal Title ten 266 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: authorities to do that. But now you're a civilian. So 267 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: some of the things that they might expect you to do, 268 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: are you know, kidnapping, false imprisonment, I mean, all sorts 269 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: of stuff that you you absolutely can't do as a 270 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: private citizen. So um and I so I wrote this 271 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: article and there's some commentary on this also as a 272 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: warning to the other guys out there, and especially when 273 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: they're doing these security contracts, um you know, here in 274 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: the United States. It was a very scary situation out 275 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: at Standing Rock because we came very close to a 276 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: situation that could have ended up like the Boston massacre, 277 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: where you had a bunch of um, you know, former 278 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: Special Operations guys shooting at protesters, and we came close 279 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: to having that happen on a numerous occasions. And uh, 280 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: that would have it would have been, as I wrote 281 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: an article, would have been brother against brother in more 282 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: ways than one. Because there was a ton of US 283 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: military veterans in the protest camps. There were a ton 284 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: of US military veterans working as private security contractors, and 285 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: they were all Americans. And that thought just horrifies me, 286 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: and it should horrify anybody you know. And and you know, 287 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: part of the reason why I think a lot of 288 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: people were willing to talk to me about this article 289 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: is for that reason is that they saw what happened 290 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: out at Standing Rock and it scared them. You know 291 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: what people like John Porter were doing and tagging eyes 292 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: of the protesters. That was done with zero concern for 293 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 1: what would have occurred if a protester shot and killed 294 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: a police officer. You know what if a protester took 295 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: that ship seriously and then you know, you know, it's 296 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: like they escalate, you escalate. There's that kind of escalation 297 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: matrix that happens. What happens when when you know, Tiger 298 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: Swan goes and they go and stir things up, and 299 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: they piss everyone off, and and all it takes is 300 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: one jackass protester to go and you know, build a 301 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: bomb or take a shot at somebody. You can't you 302 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: can't reverse those decisions. And these things were done with 303 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: zero regard for, you know, the the ultimate fallout that 304 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: could have occurred from that. So the article once again 305 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: is Tiger Swan former Delta operators sought to incite violence 306 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: at the Dakota Access Pipeline. It's up on soft rep 307 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: dot com. As most of you know by now, everything 308 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: on soft rep is now access to everybody, So check 309 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: it out, um spread it around because we want to 310 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: get the word out. I have other things I want 311 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: to talk about. What we can talk about it after 312 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 1: the interview, because right now we have Dwayne Evans standing by, 313 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: so let's get right to them. So before we get 314 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: to Dwayne Evans, author of Foxtrot and Kandahar, a memoir 315 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: of a CIA officer in Afghanistan at the exception of 316 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: America's longest war, wouldn't it be great to be pain 317 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: free like you used to feel? Biowave is the non 318 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: opioid effective way to block chronic or acute pain at 319 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: the push of a button. That sounds great well. VVA 320 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: recognized v A prescribed, f DA cleared and made in America. 321 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: Biowave is used by more than thirty v A s 322 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: and even professional sports teams. Actually, if you go to 323 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: the website and you go to biowave dot com slash customers, 324 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: you'll see all those professional sports teams, um pretty much 325 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: every professional sports league out their Olympians Seal Team one. 326 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: These are all people using biowave And you can check 327 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: out some of the testimonials too. That's a biowave dot 328 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: Com slash testimonials And for the many veterans in the audience. 329 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: You'll see the great stuff that they're doing at the 330 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: v A, which is at biowave dot com slash v A. 331 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: If you're a veteran or active military that needs help 332 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: managing pain, go to biowave dot com and learn how 333 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: to get treatment at no costs. So check out all 334 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: the stuff on the site, very informative biowave dot com 335 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: smarter pain blocking technology. And with that, let's get over 336 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: to Dwyane Evans. So, for the first time on Software 337 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: Radio is Dwayne Evans, a former CIA operations officer and 338 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: Army Special Forces. I mean, Duyne's biography is pretty intense. 339 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: There's way more for me to less than just that. 340 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: But his latest book is Foxtrot and Kandahar, a memoir 341 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: of a CIA officer in Afghanistan and the inception of 342 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: America's Longest ward. It's available now. And the thing that 343 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: I noticed that's really unique about this book is that 344 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: most of the subject matter written about Afghanistan deals with 345 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: the North, and this book is particularly about southern Afghanistan. So, yeah, 346 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: pleasure to have you on. Hey, thanks for having me. 347 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you guys. 348 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah, I mean, this is a really unique opportunity 349 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: and I'm really glad that we could have you on. 350 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: You know, we had um just recently, we had Jack 351 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,959 Speaker 1: Divine on, and you know, he told us that, you know, 352 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: he thinks most people, most Americans, they understand that the 353 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: CIA spies, and you know, they understand the concept of 354 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: you know, meeting in a cafe with somebody and getting 355 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: some information, but the paramilitary aspect is really misunderstood. And 356 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: that's exactly what your book is about. UM. So this 357 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: is a really you know, unique opportunity to talk to 358 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: somebody who's directly involved. And since the CIA cleared this 359 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: book for publication, we can have that conversation. Yeah. Absolutely. 360 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: I actually listened to your interview with Jack Divine and 361 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,239 Speaker 1: he's of course of a legend in the agency, so 362 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: it was really interesting to hear him talk. And uh, 363 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: I will I will like to make I would like 364 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: to make clear that although you absolutely I was right 365 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,959 Speaker 1: involved in in the PARA what was essentially a paramilitary operation, 366 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: I technically am not a paramilitary officer. I'm actually I was, 367 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 1: I should say, informer UH case officer or operations officer. 368 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: Although most of the people that were there with me, 369 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: were in fact, at least on the agency side, were 370 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: in fact paramilitary officers. So although I didn't go into 371 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: the I didn't leave Special Forces and go into the 372 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 1: agency as a as a paramilitary officer. I went as 373 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: a operations officer. But this opportunity in Afghanistan, this experience 374 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: I had there was basically para paramilitary and nature. I 375 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: thought it was really interesting. And I'm sorry I haven't 376 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: finished reading your book yet. I'm really looking forward to it. 377 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: But you were talking about how, um, you know, it 378 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: sounds like you were a pretty senior guy when you 379 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: were selected for this for this mission. I mean you 380 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: talk about how you were the chief of Station in 381 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: South America, which is you know, fairly you know, high 382 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: ranking position within the Central Intelligence Agency. Yeah, I was. 383 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: I was, uh, if you want to look at it 384 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: in the military terms, I was probably uh what equivalent 385 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: to what would be a lieutenant colonel like a battalion commandity. 386 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: I was forty five years old when I when I 387 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: went to U Afghanistan. And you know in the book 388 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: you talk about that, um, you know, I guess you 389 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: you probably can't talk about a lot of the things 390 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: did in the agency prior to this what's in the book. 391 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: But um, you talk about you know, nine eleven happening 392 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: just as you're coming off that assignment in South America, 393 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: and you know a lot of those experiences that so 394 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: many of us to live through. I was a senior 395 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: in high school when nine eleven happened, So some of 396 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: the things we were talking about going to pick your 397 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,959 Speaker 1: your son up at school and all those things, and 398 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: the early assumptions we had that you know, maybe it 399 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: was just a little small private plane that flew into 400 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: the World Trade Center. I mean, those things were really 401 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: um resonated with me. I guess you could say, but 402 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: I guess, um, you know, if we could take it 403 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: from there, if you want to talk a little bit 404 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: about how all of this comes to get there, I mean, 405 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: from a policy side, the White House decided, you know, okay, 406 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,959 Speaker 1: we're going to Afghanistan. Could you talk a little bit 407 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: about how this paramilitary operation came together and how you 408 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: were brought into it? Yeah, sure, absolutely, uh yeah, And 409 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: I also for the qualified, but it was it was 410 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: the overall it was a counter terrorist operation, but it 411 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: was pretty much carried out by paramilitary means. I guess 412 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: that was the best way to phrase it. I mean 413 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: the goal was when nine eleven happened, Uh, it was 414 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: pretty quickly apparent to everyone that it was al Qaeda 415 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 1: who was behind this. I mean we've been getting warnings 416 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: for for months, uh, during two thousand one that something 417 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: big was coming, uh, that we knew that was going 418 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: to happen. I think there's a lot of books that 419 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 1: have mentioned this. I didn't. I didn't dwell on that 420 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: in my book because I started with nine eleven. But 421 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: prior to nine eleven, we've been had a lot of 422 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: warning signals that things were something was building, something was 423 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: going to happen, we just didn't know exactly what. So 424 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 1: and we knew it was al Qaeda that was find 425 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 1: those that that that intelligence we were reporting. Uh. So 426 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: when the you know, nine eleven attacks happened, it was 427 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: pretty quickly. I mean I think most people, at least 428 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: of the agency, I think, assumed it was probably was 429 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: al Qaida behind then all of the attacts. But uh, 430 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: they still had due diligence and uh and take a 431 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: hard look at it before we conclusively drew that, uh, 432 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: you know, made that conclusion. But you know, once once uh, 433 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: I mean for me, I knew instantly when I was 434 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: actually I think, as I described the book, I happened 435 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: to be at the FBI headquarters, not c I A 436 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: was that b I headquarters in the Ops center when 437 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: the nine eleven tacks went down, and when I saw 438 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: that second plane hit, like I think most people, I 439 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: knew immediately, well, this was obviously we were under attack 440 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: at that point, and I knew also that it was 441 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: it was al Qaeda behind it. There was no doubt 442 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: in my mind that's who who our enemy was, um, 443 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: and who had perpetrated that attack, and so um, you know, 444 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: I started from that point on, from that moment and 445 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,719 Speaker 1: on with the with the assumption it was al Qaeda. 446 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: So yeah, so my goal was to I mean, the 447 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: attack was such a horrendous event to me. I mean 448 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: it was just the fact that, you know, three thousand 449 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: Americans died at the hands of al Qaeda, and I 450 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: was I was lucky. I feelmed. I did this day 451 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: feel myself to be highly privileged that I was in 452 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: a position that I could actually do something about it. 453 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: I know, millions of Americans wanted to do something about it, 454 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: and you know everything, and they did. They went on 455 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: gay blood and all this. But I was in a 456 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: particularly unique position because I just come from another assignment overseas. 457 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: I was technically still assigned to the counter Terrorist Center. 458 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: My my next assignment wasn't coming up until November of 459 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: two thousand one. I was gonna go actually was going 460 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: to go to the FBI to be a liaison officer 461 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: from CIA to liaison with a BI, So I didn't 462 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: really didn't have a job. I was on leave when 463 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: eleven happened, So I was in a perfect position and 464 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: to get involved in whatever the response was going to be, 465 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: and that was that was my goal from the moment 466 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: I saw the tower's fall, I had to I had 467 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: to be part of of our response. And it really 468 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: wasn't I say this in the book and I'll say 469 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: it now. It was not had nothing to do with 470 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: wanting to advance my career, had nothing to do with 471 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: anything like that. I just wanted to do something to 472 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: avenge what had happened to our country. So I immediately 473 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: went over to the agency, you know, volunteered went in. 474 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: There was no one there at the time, they had 475 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: evacuated the building, so it took me a while to 476 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: find anybody there. Um and because I drove right over 477 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: from the FBI headquarters to the agency that morning and uh, 478 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: you know, said, Hey, I want to leave, but I 479 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: want to come back and leave. I want to be 480 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: part of whatever it is we're doing. The big question 481 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: at that point within the agency was, uh, who was 482 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: going to actually take the lead on it within the agency? 483 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: Wasn't going to be the Near East South Asian Division, 484 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: which had the territorial responsibility for Afghanistan for the intelligence 485 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: operations in Afghanistan and the CIA or or US and 486 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: TELLS operations in Afghanistan. Or was it going to be 487 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: the Counter Terrorists Center but which had the issue, uh 488 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: mission of counting terrorists And so there were there. We 489 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: didn't know initially which way it was going to go, 490 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: but it oppenately what it did, it fell to the 491 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: Counter Terrorist Center, which I had happened to be technically 492 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: on rotational assignment to my home division was in fact 493 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: Near East Division, but I was at that moment, I 494 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: was on rotation to Counter Terrrist Center. So that worked 495 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: out perfectly for me. Uh. The only thing that didn't 496 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: work out for me was I tried to get on 497 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: the first team that was going out as a team 498 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: headed up Gary shron h really great officer who actually 499 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: was in the retirement program when Night eleven happened, and 500 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: they asked him to come back and lead that first 501 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: team in the team we called the uh Noll Team 502 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: in Northern Alliance leagues on team, and he did. He 503 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: came back and he formed that team up very quickly, 504 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: and I just met him the day before they left, 505 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: and I just didn't get on the team that was 506 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: there and gone before I really was able to hook 507 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: up with him. So for me, I then I just 508 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: was assigned to what what was the Counter Terrorists Center 509 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: Special Operations Unit, that was a brand unit. They stood 510 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: up specifically to UH conduct the Afghanistan counter terrorist operation 511 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:24,479 Speaker 1: going into UH just hopefully destroy al Quaeda. So I 512 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: was there with the Special Operations Unit at headquarters trying 513 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,919 Speaker 1: to get on any future teams that were formed up. 514 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: And the problem for me was I wasn't a paramilitary officer. 515 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: And as I mentioned earlier, most of the people going 516 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: into Afghanistan in those early days were in fact paramilitary officers. 517 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: There were a few others. There were some of course, 518 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: we had some medical type people going in from our 519 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: office medical services that we're going in. But most of 520 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: the people of paramilitary officers were a couple of just 521 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: a small number of people basically by large from the 522 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: Near East Division who either had language skills or some 523 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: kind of special area expertise who were going in. So 524 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: I was kind of just trying to wait my time 525 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: out and get on whatever team I could, and and 526 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: then and it flowed from there, and ultimately I was 527 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: I was dispatched along with a colleague of mine by 528 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: named Jimmy I talked by in the book, a retired 529 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: Delta Force sergeant major who was then now an agency officer. 530 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: He and I were sent out to a long bond 531 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: to work with the station out there on getting something 532 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: going in southern Afghanistan. Because this by this time we're 533 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: into October now late October, and things have been going 534 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: very well in the north. Uh. You know that we 535 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: hooked up with the Northern Alliance. There were Special Forces 536 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: of CIA teams working with the Northern Alliance commanders, and 537 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: they were having great success on the battlefield. They were 538 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: coming down. In fact, Autimaly would would capture Cobble, the 539 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: Captain Cobble, a few days before our our first team 540 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: in into the south, but nothing was going on in 541 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: the south. Al Qaida was still there, Taliban still pretty 542 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: much ran things down there. So and that was as 543 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: you know, the southern Afghanistan, particularly Candahar was ground zero 544 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: for the Taliban Talban movement. So we had to get 545 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: something going down there if we're going to be successful. 546 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: And we couldn't use the Northern Alliance to go down 547 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: into that part of the country simply because they were 548 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: basically major made up primarily Tajiks, and we didn't want 549 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: a civil war to be created by the quoted but 550 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: essentially Poshtun land. And and so that's where um we 551 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: got into the south was the idea, we need to 552 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: work with Poshtuns against the Taliban and al Qaeda. And 553 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: I'll stop here in case you yeah, Um, well, I 554 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: guess from here what I'd like to ask if if 555 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: you could take us through, um the infiltration phase for 556 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: Foxtrot and you know how your team came together, who 557 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: these people were, and then you know how you infiltrated 558 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan. Absolutely, uh there were there were essentially seven 559 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: teams that would go into Afghanistan uh c I combined 560 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: c I, s F teams, Special Forces teams, and UH. 561 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: Five of those were up in the North with the 562 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: North Alliance UH and again they were having great success 563 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: up there. They just did a movie about one of 564 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: those teams. UH twelve Strong is about the team that 565 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: was with Dos dost Um uh so. But in the 566 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: South nothing's going on. So initially, the first team that 567 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: was formed up was the Echo Team. Echo Team set 568 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: up by a guy named Greg who was a senior 569 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: U c c I, a paramilitary officer, and it was 570 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: worked to work with the Hamada Karsai and we actually 571 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: I was on that team initially before deployed into Afghanistan 572 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: from Pakistan. We and we actually had to go out 573 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: and get Hammond cars I am still in as tribal 574 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: elders who were about ready to get overrun by the Taliban. 575 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: And and Greg and Jimmy the guy went out with 576 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: that mentioned earlier in a in a a Seal team 577 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: element flew in and got cars I and his UH, 578 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: his tribal elders brought him to Jacobabat where we were 579 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: based at a pack beer base there and began planning 580 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: going back into Afghanistan to way Ja military campaign UH 581 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: starting in the tarn Coute area which is where our cars. 582 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: I was was from and had had a lot of support. Well, uh, 583 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: it turns out I got bumped from that team. I 584 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: was the only non paramilitary officer there. In the morning 585 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: that we were supposed to deploy, the overloaded the helicopter 586 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: didn't have enough lift capability for the people we had 587 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: and the equipment we had, and so we had to 588 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: leave three people behind to SF guys were left behind 589 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: as and I was. I was to stay behind guy 590 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: for Echo team. Made sense. I was not paramilitary officer, right, 591 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: I understood it. I hated the fact that wasn't behind, 592 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: but I understood Gregg's decision. Um. So once they took off, 593 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: the plan was we would join them in a few 594 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,719 Speaker 1: days when the resupply fly. Well, it turn us out. 595 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: The next day I was called back to his long body. 596 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: Decision was made that we would form a team to 597 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: go into the South. This one would be designated Foxtrot 598 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: Team against my book titled Foxtrot and Kandahar, and our 599 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: goal was to go was to link up with a 600 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: pushtume leader, the former governor of Canadahar guy named Goola 601 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: Shares I, and link up with him and some of 602 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: his fighters who were already in Canadahar Province and in 603 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: wage of campaign to get into Kandahar City. So the 604 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: only problem was I didn't have I did not have 605 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: a paramilitary team with me. Usually a paramilental team showed. 606 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: Paramilitary team shows up with the equipment to include obviously 607 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: the weapons, but also commo gear, all the things you 608 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: need to go into a tactical environment like this. I 609 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: didn't have any of that, uh, And so initially it 610 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: was just me and another officer there from Songa Bud 611 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: the name of Mark. And then we managed to find 612 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: a couple of special operation a military special operations guy's 613 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: Army guys who were happy to be in Alama body 614 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: on special Task Force, and they had some of the 615 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: commo gear we needed and I was able to to 616 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: um protest them and they asked them for one of 617 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 1: their gear and they said, well, you can have our gear, 618 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: but we have to come with it, which I totally 619 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: understood that, and so immediately we began trying to get 620 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: their necessary coordinations done through d O D to get 621 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: them on the team and deployed with us, and it 622 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: came through just in the nick of time. We only 623 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: had five days to pull all this together to get 624 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: together to deploy. So it turns out it was myself, 625 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: Mark and these two Special Operations guys UH, Gary and 626 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: Mike outstanding guys, top of the line and UH we 627 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,359 Speaker 1: deployed into with with with an s F team, got 628 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,879 Speaker 1: an s F team from fifth Group UH five eight 629 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: three that came down and joined us. And one of 630 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: my old boss was on that O d A seriously, 631 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 1: kal k okay, don't remember him. He would have he 632 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't He would not have been a team sergeant. He 633 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: would have been one of the younger guys on the 634 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: team back at that Okay, Okay, Yeah, I didn't get 635 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: to know them all really really well. I knew you 636 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,879 Speaker 1: got to know a couple of them, uh, but most 637 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: of them I didn't get to know that. Well. This 638 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 1: was a pretty fast moving thing, by the way, and 639 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: so we got it together and we infiltrated. What we 640 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: did is we were with it. That air base in 641 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: Pakistan was the Air Force's Special offs Wing and they 642 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: had MH fifty three's and they that's how we infiltrated. Now, 643 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: initially when we went in, it was just three of 644 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: the SF guys and the four of us and the 645 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: reason now for that was the Fifth Group policy, and 646 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: maybe it was a complete SF policy, but as it 647 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,439 Speaker 1: was explained to me, Fifth Groups policy was that until 648 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: they could establish there were at least five hundred fighters 649 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: on the ground, they didn't want to commit an a 650 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: team there until they knew that, you know, they had 651 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: enough people there that could you know, slug it out 652 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: if they needed to. UH. So an advanced element of 653 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: the SF team went in with myself and Mark and 654 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: the two two other special officer guys that were detailed 655 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: to Foxtrot and we infiltrated dark a night. It was 656 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: on the nineteen of November that we did this, and 657 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,800 Speaker 1: we went into the Shnay Valley, which is just across 658 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 1: the border, only a few kilometers across the border from 659 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,479 Speaker 1: from Pakistan, and that's where the base camp for sure, 660 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: as I was, so, we infiltrated into that, linked up 661 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: with him and his fighters UH that night, and we're 662 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: in his base camp for a couple of days making 663 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: a plan as to how we're going to move forward 664 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: from there. Uh And then ultimately what we did was 665 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: we moved out of the Shinnurey Valley and did across 666 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: country movement to toward towards Kandahara, and we had to 667 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: capture village along the way that was Satistride Highway for 668 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: which was the main highway between r and Pakistan, and 669 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: it was being used by al Qaeda to go back 670 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: and forth. So we knew if we could cut that highway, 671 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: we could we could stop that movement going back and forth. 672 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: And so our our initial goal was to capture that village. 673 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: Had a small Taliban garrison there, but we of course 674 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: had with the s F team, they're bringing in air 675 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: support and stuff. It wasn't close air support, it wasn't 676 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,919 Speaker 1: very uh very hard to get them to decide to leave, 677 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: and we didn't. Uh. We moved into that, into that village, 678 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: and we in that those the first couple of days, 679 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: we actually did capture or kill a number of al 680 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: Kinda personnel, to include the we captured the personal driver 681 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: and bodyguards. Have been lauden that we didn't know that's 682 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,280 Speaker 1: who we had at the time. That's how that happened. 683 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: They're starting to fill in some of the pieces, okay 684 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: um and then from there is moving down to Candahar. 685 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: And I have to ask you this question because I 686 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,400 Speaker 1: heard let's say I heard a rumor that there were 687 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: two agency paramilitary guys that got into a fist fight 688 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: outside Candahar over who got to be the team that 689 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: went in first. I don't know anything about that. I've 690 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 1: never heard that there were two teams. There were two 691 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: teams that were my team, Foxtra team, which was coming 692 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: up basically from the southeast towards Kandahar on along basically 693 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: long highway before we had. Our big obstacle, by the way, 694 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: was the airport there in Kandahar, because that was being 695 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: held by al Qaeda and uh In Taliban, and it 696 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: took about ten days to reduce sat down so that 697 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 1: we could get past it. And after we did that, 698 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: we moved in and at the same time Echo Team 699 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: with with their odier which was five seven four, who 700 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: I've gotten to know pretty well um when we were 701 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: in Pakistan because they were I was with Echo Team initially. 702 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 1: Uh They were coming down from the south unfortunately, I 703 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: mean from the north down to from katon Coote area 704 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: to Kandahar, very unfortunately. A few days earlier before we 705 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: moved into Kandahar, that team, the oder was was hit 706 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 1: by an errand US air strike and killed I think 707 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,800 Speaker 1: three Americans seriously wounded a number of others, to include 708 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: every member of the of that O d A. And uh, 709 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: none of our none of our agency guys were hit. 710 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: They were just down the hill from that in their 711 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 1: little area, and so they weren't up there at the 712 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 1: observation post where that air strike happened. It was a 713 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 1: complete Uh it was. It was a technical error, and 714 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,799 Speaker 1: it wasn't their fault. Wasn't the O d A's fault, 715 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 1: and it wasn't the Air Force's fault. It was a 716 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: commanding control especial forces commanding control element that had come 717 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: in the day before and they had replaced I was 718 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: I wasn't there, but I've talked to people who were there, 719 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: and I've read books about it, and so this is 720 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: this something set in him. But basically it was a 721 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: technical error made by one of the members of that 722 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: commanding control element who was at the at the direction 723 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 1: of his commander, a major, was calling an air strike 724 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: in on some caves they weren't under attack or anything 725 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: like that, and somehow in the in the technical process 726 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,879 Speaker 1: recalibration of the instrument he was using to call those 727 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: air strikes in, he made a technical error and end 728 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: up calling air strike in directly on their position, so 729 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,799 Speaker 1: that they had been hit, that team had been hit 730 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: UM and and so obviously that created all kinds of issues. 731 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: I go into the book again, I because I wasn't there, 732 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: I didn't want to spend a lot of time about it. 733 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: But I didn't want to mention it because it was 734 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: very significant and very tragic. But so they were coming 735 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,040 Speaker 1: down from the south, they've got they got another team 736 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: in to join them, another ODI A joined them, and 737 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: they came down. The Echo team came down as we 738 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 1: were moving up from the southeast. There was never any 739 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: fight about who was going to get there. The only 740 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 1: reason I I say this in the book, I felt 741 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: that my headquarters would have preferred if Echo team had 742 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: come in first, because the Echo team with Homed cars 743 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 1: I and cars I was the big dog. But when 744 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: they got hit by the by the air strike UM 745 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: about the same time like the day before, uh, they 746 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,400 Speaker 1: were hit. And then about the next day we decided 747 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: we thought we could get past the airfield. And sure, 748 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 1: as I have the guy I was working with, the 749 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 1: commander of the Afghan commander I was working and he 750 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,319 Speaker 1: was ready to roll. It says you know, we sent 751 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: a recon element actually into Candahar, and it looked like 752 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,360 Speaker 1: that they had abandoned it. So we felt like the 753 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: sooner we get in there, the better, and we my judgment, 754 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 1: his judgment, and the Odaco Manner's judgment was, you know, 755 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: the sooner we're in there, sooner Americans are in there 756 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 1: and we're in position show that we're there, the better. 757 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 1: And so we just rolled in at that point. And 758 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't really a debate or a question to anyone 759 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,439 Speaker 1: night should we go in, should or should Echo team 760 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 1: come in. We just made the decision informed UH and 761 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 1: formed our headquarters. Hey we're tomorrow morning, we're rolling in, 762 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 1: and we went in just just simply to be there 763 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 1: as soon as we could get there. You guys, you 764 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,120 Speaker 1: guys rolled in the Candar airfield to right. You guys 765 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: also took Candahar airfield. Yeah, absolutely, we we did that. 766 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: That was actually was a big obstacle for us, and 767 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 1: and it UH required like say, we spent about ten 768 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: days uh in that little village. The Odier went out 769 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: and step an op that could look on look on 770 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,399 Speaker 1: the air airfield airport and called in for ten days 771 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 1: basically called in air strikes on that and then there 772 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: were probes being mounted by seris Ise guys. Uh you know, 773 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 1: there's some firefights that went on that kind of thing. 774 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:20,279 Speaker 1: And finally through the bombing some of the guys, you know, 775 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 1: there were people killed obviously in the bombings, but some 776 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: of them, I think just this space is kind of 777 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: evaporated and pulled out and went away and kind of 778 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,839 Speaker 1: disappeared into the populace, if you will. But it took 779 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 1: about ten days to get that to happen. And then 780 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,239 Speaker 1: we then we rolled past the airfield and we left 781 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,760 Speaker 1: some of Serisise guys occupied the airport at that point, 782 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: and we uh we moved on into town and occupied 783 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,240 Speaker 1: we took over the Governor's palace there in downtown Kanadahar. 784 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: And when Echo Team got in there, initially they occupied 785 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: Omar's Omar's place, which is on the kind of western 786 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: perimeter of the city and and that so Echo Team 787 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: with the Odier that was with them, occupied that. But 788 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,279 Speaker 1: very quickly that odier and joined us that was with 789 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 1: Echo Team joined us, and uh as did two other 790 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,759 Speaker 1: odiers come down and join us. So now we had 791 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: about four odier's counting one that was always with us 792 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,320 Speaker 1: in the Governor's palace, and then that command and control 793 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 1: element that had gone in and joined Car's ice group, 794 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 1: the Echo team, they showed up at the palace as well. 795 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,400 Speaker 1: So at that point it became uh, that was finally 796 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 1: we got quite a number of Americans uh together at 797 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: one point. Wow. So that's how Kandahar was taken, and 798 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 1: that became like the next I would think the airfield 799 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 1: became the next next beachhead in the war. In a sense. Yeah, 800 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:44,799 Speaker 1: we needed and we needed that, you know, we needed 801 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,879 Speaker 1: that air force to bring in heavy aircraft and things 802 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 1: like that. And so there there had been a there 803 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,359 Speaker 1: was a marine expeditionary unit that was set up down 804 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,759 Speaker 1: in Helmand Province and they were they were kept on 805 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: a really tight leash because as as they make the 806 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 1: point in the book, uh, this whole thing, like a 807 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 1: lot of people referred to this as the US invasion 808 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,320 Speaker 1: of invasion of Afghanistan, and I make the point the 809 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,800 Speaker 1: book there really was no invasion. We sent a few 810 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 1: a few teams five our seven team, who are just 811 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,440 Speaker 1: a handful of people relatively speaking, to work with the 812 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,920 Speaker 1: Afghans who were actually the ground force on the ground. 813 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 1: I mean they were they were the They were the 814 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,600 Speaker 1: surrogate force that we used, and that was that was 815 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 1: really by design. It also went along with what President 816 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:35,720 Speaker 1: Bush wanted. He didn't want uh conventional force going into 817 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,560 Speaker 1: Afghanistan and uh, but we did. They did put in 818 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,520 Speaker 1: this marine expeditionary unit that sat down there in the 819 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 1: desert and it was kind of forming a blocking had 820 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: a blocking position, and but they didn't let them go 821 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 1: on really offensive operations other than I think there was some. 822 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,759 Speaker 1: I had a friend of mine, an agency guy who 823 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: was assigned with him, who um, who was with them 824 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,800 Speaker 1: at the time, and so they you know, obviously they 825 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:02,319 Speaker 1: did operations defensively to checked themselves, but they weren't. They 826 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,319 Speaker 1: wanted to keep the U. S. Soldiers in uniform off 827 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,959 Speaker 1: the streets, if you will, in greater Afghanistan. So once 828 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 1: we took that airfield, uh, and what we did, I 829 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,760 Speaker 1: say we meaning everyone there, the Marines and the SF guys. UH. 830 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,320 Speaker 1: That airfield was turned over to the Marines, and the 831 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,800 Speaker 1: Marines came. We actually arranged to bring them around the 832 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,759 Speaker 1: darker night, again trying to keep the US profile low 833 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,399 Speaker 1: in the darker night when everyone on the Afghans would 834 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,360 Speaker 1: be asleep. Led them around the guided them around. The 835 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 1: Afghans went out with us and guided them around the 836 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: perimeter of the city of Canadaha to get them to 837 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,400 Speaker 1: the airfield, so that the populace wasn't aware that there 838 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 1: was now basically a conventional force of U. S. Soldiers 839 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 1: in in in Afghanistan. And then so they took over, 840 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 1: they took over the duties for that responsibilities for that 841 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,880 Speaker 1: airport at that time, the Marines did. I was wondering 842 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:56,959 Speaker 1: if you could elaborate a little bit for us, because 843 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people out there who I think 844 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 1: don't necessarily under stand the distinctions. If you could talk 845 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 1: a little bit about um, the c I A paramilitary 846 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,759 Speaker 1: aspect and special forces. I mean for a lot of people, 847 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: I think they see these as like a duplication of 848 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 1: the same capabilities. If you could talk a little bit 849 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 1: about the differences between the two and perhaps the relationship 850 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:23,480 Speaker 1: together as well. Yeah, sure will, Well, there two cervice 851 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,239 Speaker 1: and there isn't duplication there, and that the guys that 852 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,879 Speaker 1: come into the agency as paramilitary officers. I've only heard 853 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,440 Speaker 1: one person who became a paramilitary officer at least this 854 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,680 Speaker 1: was a few years ago, maybe that's changed who wasn't 855 00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,800 Speaker 1: who did not come out of the military. Often, although 856 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 1: not always, they come out of special operationcy units where 857 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:48,760 Speaker 1: there's the Seals, Delta, Special Forces, Rangers, Force reinforcerycon or whatever, 858 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,759 Speaker 1: but not always. Sometimes they're just you know, straight blag 859 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,640 Speaker 1: infantry out of you know, the army or whatever that 860 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,960 Speaker 1: come in. And also some Air Force guys come in 861 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:02,040 Speaker 1: uh as well, so they have a what comes into 862 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,880 Speaker 1: the paramilitary element of the agency are a lot of 863 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,319 Speaker 1: guys who have you know, very highly you know, very 864 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 1: highly skilled in these special operations uh, you know, capabilities, 865 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,360 Speaker 1: and so they there and they know a lot of 866 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 1: the people that are still back in the active military, 867 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,319 Speaker 1: of course, because they've been with them through most of 868 00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,719 Speaker 1: their career. They don't always have they won't always have 869 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: completed a full career. I would say probably most of 870 00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,799 Speaker 1: them haven't completed a full career, but a number of 871 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,000 Speaker 1: them have in the military before joining the agency. But 872 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 1: some of them may only have you know, five years 873 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,319 Speaker 1: and with the with the military, So you have the 874 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,880 Speaker 1: duplication in terms of their skill sets is there that 875 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,440 Speaker 1: it's it's a mission that gets a little different um 876 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,600 Speaker 1: and and that gets into authorities of the different agencies. 877 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:49,440 Speaker 1: You know what doot dood authorities are, what agency authorities are. UM. 878 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:53,160 Speaker 1: Often I mean the paramilitary guys can do a lot 879 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:58,040 Speaker 1: of the same things that special Forces uh ODA could do, 880 00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,800 Speaker 1: or what members of the Seal team could or whatever, 881 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:05,000 Speaker 1: but they're the mission is a little different. UM. Sometimes 882 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:09,360 Speaker 1: the military can't be used in certain certain missions because 883 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,440 Speaker 1: UM it's not a mission that is going to be 884 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:17,560 Speaker 1: acknowledged by the by the U. S. Government and so 885 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,760 Speaker 1: those you know that falls more into a covert action 886 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 1: sort of thing. And when that happens, they can't use 887 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:27,840 Speaker 1: They can't use military is basically prohibited. UH. With some exceptions, 888 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,000 Speaker 1: they can't be authorized and only get that at own. 889 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,359 Speaker 1: But but generally speaking the agency is responsible for for 890 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:39,239 Speaker 1: covert action. And so because the military is really kind 891 00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,640 Speaker 1: of prescribed from some of this, we need a capability 892 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,960 Speaker 1: that has the same kind of skill set as the 893 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,520 Speaker 1: military does, but that can go in and do these 894 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,920 Speaker 1: these missions dead are really determined by that are really 895 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 1: determined by, um, the the what authorities is the this 896 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,200 Speaker 1: mission being carried out under? Is it as in a 897 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,759 Speaker 1: covert action authority or is it an overt uh it 898 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,480 Speaker 1: would be a title ten, which is you know, standard 899 00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,640 Speaker 1: US military, where this title fifty uh is more for 900 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,880 Speaker 1: covert action type capabilities. But I mean the Afghanistan campaign 901 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,200 Speaker 1: wasn't exactly I mean it was on CNN every day, 902 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 1: it wasn't necessarily covert. Why why why this blend, why 903 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:28,600 Speaker 1: this combination of paramilitary and U S Special Forces? Well 904 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,239 Speaker 1: it gets into one of the agency had already had 905 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,600 Speaker 1: a relationship with with a lot of the Afghan commanders 906 00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,680 Speaker 1: that we were going to be working with, and we 907 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,439 Speaker 1: already had the relationship with them, and so we put 908 00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,040 Speaker 1: especially the first team that went it was initially all 909 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:47,160 Speaker 1: agency the military surprisingly UH then d O D they 910 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 1: had some difficulty um getting the first s F team deployed, 911 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:53,880 Speaker 1: and I don't I don't know all the ins and 912 00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 1: outs of that. It was some sort of bureaucratic process 913 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,280 Speaker 1: I guess that caused them delays. But initially that first 914 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,600 Speaker 1: element that went in was all all agency, and again 915 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,040 Speaker 1: it went in under it went under the title. It 916 00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,279 Speaker 1: went in their title fifty uh and not titled ten. 917 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,279 Speaker 1: And that's that's why. Now now it's similar like you know, 918 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,440 Speaker 1: the mission to uh do the rate on bin laden 919 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:24,239 Speaker 1: that was done by of course by by the Navy Seals, 920 00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 1: but the overall authority for it was UM was actually 921 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,640 Speaker 1: done under CIA's auspices, and that gets back into these 922 00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,160 Speaker 1: authorities and stuff like that, so there is duplication. But 923 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,440 Speaker 1: the agency guys, like paramilitary guys, in addition to their 924 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,200 Speaker 1: military heart skills, they also have they're also are trained 925 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,920 Speaker 1: up as as agency officers, which means that they understand intelligence. 926 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,400 Speaker 1: They know how to rewrite an intelligence report, they know 927 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 1: how to handle intelligence asset, you know, they know how 928 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,319 Speaker 1: to recruit intelligence asset um, that kind of thing. So 929 00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,360 Speaker 1: it's a it's kind of a cross fertilization, if you will, 930 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,520 Speaker 1: uh that they take that hard, hard military skills and 931 00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:06,759 Speaker 1: then the skills of a kind of the bread and 932 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,520 Speaker 1: butter skills of a of a what like I was 933 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:13,160 Speaker 1: a case officer. You blend those two together and that's 934 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,520 Speaker 1: really the perfect type of person to put into uh 935 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,200 Speaker 1: environment like Afghanistan. And I would just add that, you know, 936 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:23,040 Speaker 1: there's some doctrine military doctrine to back some of this 937 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,200 Speaker 1: up as well, because you know, when you go through 938 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,200 Speaker 1: Special Forces training and you go through the Robin Sage exercise, 939 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,759 Speaker 1: it's kind of understood or um taught that there would 940 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 1: be some CI A case officer on the ground in 941 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:39,400 Speaker 1: the country that you're infiltrating, and they will be able 942 00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,640 Speaker 1: to link you up with the guerrilla movement, or at 943 00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,319 Speaker 1: least there'll be some pre existing relationship, which is really 944 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:50,600 Speaker 1: exactly what you're talking about in Afghanistan. Yeah, that's exactly right. 945 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,960 Speaker 1: And it's just because just like in Afghanistan, I mean, 946 00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:58,080 Speaker 1: it was really the agency's responsibility to maintain relationships with 947 00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,960 Speaker 1: the players, if you will. In Afghanistan. Uh, you know, 948 00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,520 Speaker 1: we got involved with them back in the day of 949 00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:06,680 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you know you you probably talked to 950 00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:08,640 Speaker 1: a few people about this and Jack if I may 951 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:10,960 Speaker 1: even talked about it a bit, Uh, the the whole 952 00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,640 Speaker 1: earlier effort in Afghanistan when we were supporting the Mujadine 953 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,880 Speaker 1: trying to get the Russians out of the country, and 954 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:23,160 Speaker 1: so we had maintained basically going back that far relationships 955 00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:27,560 Speaker 1: with people there, um and that was an agency responsibility. 956 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,479 Speaker 1: The military wasn't wasn't task to do that. That wasn't 957 00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,080 Speaker 1: their job, but it was our job, and so we 958 00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,680 Speaker 1: were kind of we kind of own I don't wanted 959 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:37,880 Speaker 1: to make it sound like a Turk issue. But but 960 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,839 Speaker 1: to put it, you know, it was like a kind 961 00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,680 Speaker 1: of own those relationships just because that was what our 962 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:48,239 Speaker 1: job was. And so we definitely had to I had 963 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,680 Speaker 1: to be there, We had to you know, to make 964 00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,520 Speaker 1: those kind of introductions. We had to present ourselves. Of 965 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,880 Speaker 1: course when we dealt with these um afghaniers, just like 966 00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,480 Speaker 1: I did with with sure as I you know Odier, 967 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,600 Speaker 1: that was with our team. You know, we had to 968 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:04,879 Speaker 1: be a united front. He had to see us as 969 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,040 Speaker 1: one one team and that and it's and it was, 970 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,200 Speaker 1: I mean something that couldn't be you know, he couldn't 971 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,320 Speaker 1: play me off against the O d A team leader. 972 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,520 Speaker 1: That kind of thing we had to come across as 973 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,640 Speaker 1: we were all one and we're there to help him, 974 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,359 Speaker 1: but we were all one and uh and I will 975 00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,480 Speaker 1: say that was kind of the kind of the greatest 976 00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:25,520 Speaker 1: thing about that experience I had in Afghanistan, at least 977 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,520 Speaker 1: in that part in that time frame, and that was 978 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:32,600 Speaker 1: how well everyone got along. I mean, there was there 979 00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,520 Speaker 1: was just no there was no light between us, between 980 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,920 Speaker 1: the O d A s and the and the and 981 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:41,439 Speaker 1: the agency teams. We all understood why we were there. 982 00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:44,960 Speaker 1: We all worked to the same goal. Uh, for the 983 00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,200 Speaker 1: most part, there was really no personality. Uh, you know, 984 00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,600 Speaker 1: hurdles that couldn't be overcome and uh, it was just 985 00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,640 Speaker 1: it was just a beautiful thing. Now if um you 986 00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:57,879 Speaker 1: know correct me if my timeline is off, But you 987 00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,280 Speaker 1: were in Canada, Hortor and when this around the same 988 00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,440 Speaker 1: time that the Jaysack element was kicking off. Um, you know, 989 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,040 Speaker 1: the operation Anaconda and all that against um to go 990 00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,440 Speaker 1: after been lauden that I was getting confused with that 991 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,839 Speaker 1: one happened in January or it would happen in December. 992 00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,200 Speaker 1: I can't be when an operation happened. Um, it was 993 00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:26,680 Speaker 1: there were two operations having around that time. And I 994 00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:29,360 Speaker 1: have lost the timeline on honestly, but it was it 995 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,640 Speaker 1: was near that time frame. It may have happened after 996 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,040 Speaker 1: I left. If it happened in January, I would have 997 00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,880 Speaker 1: have not been there. It was. There was something that 998 00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:42,040 Speaker 1: happened in December, and I can't remember Anaconda or something else. Uh, 999 00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:43,520 Speaker 1: and I would have been I would have been in 1000 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:47,560 Speaker 1: Canada at that point, yeah, because I remember someone was 1001 00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:51,239 Speaker 1: telling me about how when Jaysack came down from bag 1002 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,160 Speaker 1: From there was a guy. Um it may have been 1003 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,560 Speaker 1: one of your guys who is the liaison from Delta 1004 00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,640 Speaker 1: UM to O g A and he went met up 1005 00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,000 Speaker 1: with the Delta element that rolled in, escorted them into 1006 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,200 Speaker 1: the safe house in Kandahar, and then they rolled out 1007 00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:07,520 Speaker 1: to what was it Tora Bora. I think the next 1008 00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:12,360 Speaker 1: night that could have been um because we because I 1009 00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:16,760 Speaker 1: know one of our officers did you know go actually 1010 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:21,680 Speaker 1: went from from Kandahar and went to support that effort, 1011 00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,960 Speaker 1: So that could have been what you're referring to. And uh, 1012 00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,759 Speaker 1: I just it wasn't on my team. It was came 1013 00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,280 Speaker 1: off with Echo team. So um, I just can't remember 1014 00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:35,280 Speaker 1: if I was there for anaconda or if that happened 1015 00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:37,520 Speaker 1: after I left. I just can't remember the dates that 1016 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,080 Speaker 1: went into condo where I'm sorry, Yeah, no, no, of course, 1017 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:45,359 Speaker 1: I just curious. Uh And so do you want to 1018 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,200 Speaker 1: pick up the story from there and tell us about 1019 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, what happened with Foxtrot after Candahar and Candahar Airfield? Yeah? Well, 1020 00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:56,720 Speaker 1: I mean really the main goal was to get into Candahar. 1021 00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,919 Speaker 1: That was what we wanted to do, to basically throw 1022 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:04,280 Speaker 1: the Taliban out, smash al Qaida and get into Candahar 1023 00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:08,600 Speaker 1: because we felt that in addition to just that military 1024 00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:12,320 Speaker 1: goal in of itself, we would have a there's likely 1025 00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,160 Speaker 1: to be a lot of intelligence to be gleaned out 1026 00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,240 Speaker 1: of that too, that we could find documentation and hopefully 1027 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,440 Speaker 1: captures of Al Kainda members, that kind of thing where 1028 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,359 Speaker 1: we would get a whole bunch of UH intel out 1029 00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,239 Speaker 1: of it. So our our first, our first goal really 1030 00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,640 Speaker 1: once we got in there, we already had a target 1031 00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,680 Speaker 1: list if you would, if you will, that was something 1032 00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,840 Speaker 1: that had been provided to us by our headquarters that said, hey, 1033 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,719 Speaker 1: these locations, we are good intel. These are Al Kainda 1034 00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,400 Speaker 1: safe houses and UM. So we had to the mission 1035 00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,799 Speaker 1: was to go and raide those those safe houses. Now, 1036 00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,000 Speaker 1: by the time we got in there, we figured chances 1037 00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:54,920 Speaker 1: are the al Qaida presence is gone. They probably have 1038 00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,279 Speaker 1: beat feet out of there, because we knew they had 1039 00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:58,680 Speaker 1: been trying to get out of the city and we're 1040 00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:01,880 Speaker 1: having some success six sess at it even as we 1041 00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:05,080 Speaker 1: were trying to get into the city. So we immediately 1042 00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,879 Speaker 1: started rating these these safe houses and UH. And also 1043 00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,160 Speaker 1: we had some volunteers come in as well, and one 1044 00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,600 Speaker 1: of those volunteers brought in not al Quaedam by the way, 1045 00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:21,040 Speaker 1: but an Afghan came in and he gave us a 1046 00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:25,800 Speaker 1: whole bunch of documents of which probably the biggest, the 1047 00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,240 Speaker 1: biggest intelligence find we got out of that effort in 1048 00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:36,240 Speaker 1: Candahart was a plan to include the video case scenes, sketches, uh, 1049 00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:38,800 Speaker 1: you name it, of a planned attack on the U 1050 00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,320 Speaker 1: S S. Carl Vincon that was to take place in Singapore. 1051 00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,080 Speaker 1: And as you know that Karl Vincent is a nuclear 1052 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:50,120 Speaker 1: powered aircraft carrier and they one the but fortunately also 1053 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:53,760 Speaker 1: contained within that material for that attack were the cell 1054 00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,400 Speaker 1: phone numbers of the al Qaeda members who were going 1055 00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:03,240 Speaker 1: to carry out that at that verse six bad so 1056 00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,840 Speaker 1: that that got that of course we sent that out 1057 00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,360 Speaker 1: of media President's message and uh and it and it 1058 00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,280 Speaker 1: took a couple of months. But but the authorities there 1059 00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,200 Speaker 1: and whoever else was involved working with them, assuming that 1060 00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:21,080 Speaker 1: BI and and others, uh, they rounded up those guys 1061 00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:25,040 Speaker 1: and they neutralized that plan attack. So that was huge. 1062 00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:29,400 Speaker 1: That could have been a major disaster force for the 1063 00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,160 Speaker 1: US had that attack taken place. So that was probably 1064 00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,720 Speaker 1: the single most important intelligence fine we got out of there. 1065 00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,480 Speaker 1: There are some other less important but yet significant things. 1066 00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:42,760 Speaker 1: We also found the document the application form that Jose Padilla, 1067 00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,000 Speaker 1: the dirty bomber, had filled out to join al Qaeda 1068 00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,920 Speaker 1: and that and that was used in court against him. Uh. 1069 00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:55,360 Speaker 1: In fact, Mark, my teammate UH a couple of years later, 1070 00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,600 Speaker 1: would testify in disguise at his trial as to the 1071 00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:02,320 Speaker 1: chain of custody of that document that we had sees 1072 00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,080 Speaker 1: and so you know, he was he was convicted in 1073 00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:11,560 Speaker 1: part because of that that information. Wow. So that that 1074 00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:17,480 Speaker 1: was that was probably the biggest intel uh things we did. Uh, 1075 00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,080 Speaker 1: we gleaned out of capturing Canadahar. But the you know, 1076 00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,640 Speaker 1: of course, strategically, the big, big important thing was that 1077 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,200 Speaker 1: Taliban was no longer in power there and al Qaeda 1078 00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:32,520 Speaker 1: was no longer effectively running operations from from there, and 1079 00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,920 Speaker 1: at that point that the mission shift from that to 1080 00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,880 Speaker 1: looking for Ben Laden. Yeah. That was always you know, 1081 00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:43,160 Speaker 1: of course, we were always looking for being Laden uh 1082 00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,919 Speaker 1: the get go and uh, and so yeah, it became 1083 00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,800 Speaker 1: more of a focused effort to uh do you know, 1084 00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:52,640 Speaker 1: there were still pockets of resistance throughout the country and 1085 00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,400 Speaker 1: to include some Alqaeda guys running around, but they weren't 1086 00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:59,320 Speaker 1: you know, an effective they weren't an effective organization anymore 1087 00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,120 Speaker 1: at that point, and so those those those things had 1088 01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:07,680 Speaker 1: to be pursued. But the UH and I, frankly I 1089 01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:11,640 Speaker 1: left UH my goal. My division had said, yeah, I 1090 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,640 Speaker 1: could stay with the terror center for a few few 1091 01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:16,560 Speaker 1: more months, but then they wanted me back to come 1092 01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:21,000 Speaker 1: back to any division, and I was actually came taking 1093 01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,400 Speaker 1: out of there, told to come home a little bit 1094 01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,160 Speaker 1: earlier than I had expected to plan for, and so 1095 01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,720 Speaker 1: I left after after we had captured Kandahar within a 1096 01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:32,280 Speaker 1: within a couple of weeks, I was. I was back 1097 01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:36,240 Speaker 1: back in Washington. But the mission at that point, you know, 1098 01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:41,200 Speaker 1: became more into looking at more helping to stabilize the area. 1099 01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:45,080 Speaker 1: Of course, of course, the plans were already in place 1100 01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:48,280 Speaker 1: to bring in a lot more US military and also 1101 01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:51,080 Speaker 1: within the Agency to increase our presence there quite a bit, 1102 01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,160 Speaker 1: so things kind of shifted gears. You know. The initial 1103 01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:57,240 Speaker 1: mission was to go in there and smash al Qaeda. 1104 01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,640 Speaker 1: And the reason we got involved with the Taliban was 1105 01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:01,960 Speaker 1: simply because they stood in our way. You know, they 1106 01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:05,920 Speaker 1: were protecting that the Alqaeda elements there, and had it 1107 01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:07,880 Speaker 1: not been for that, if they had stood aside, or 1108 01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:09,440 Speaker 1: if they had even helped us on it, they might 1109 01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,880 Speaker 1: be empower today. But seriously, but I mean we really 1110 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,160 Speaker 1: we were just really concerned about al Qaeda. That's all 1111 01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:17,200 Speaker 1: we really wanted. But we had to deal with Todd 1112 01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:21,080 Speaker 1: Tomoman to deal with al Qaeda, So, you know, then 1113 01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,440 Speaker 1: it became more of a I think that's where things 1114 01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,920 Speaker 1: started to morph into what became more of a nation 1115 01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:30,280 Speaker 1: building exercise, which was something that President Bush explicitly said 1116 01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:34,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't coming to become, but it did. Well, what 1117 01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:36,200 Speaker 1: do you do you think that was the right decision 1118 01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,200 Speaker 1: to bring all the additional troops in the country and 1119 01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:42,240 Speaker 1: to stick around the way we did well. I think 1120 01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:45,800 Speaker 1: initially I think yes, initially bring some more troops in, Yes, 1121 01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,760 Speaker 1: to help stabilize things. I think that probably was had 1122 01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,560 Speaker 1: to be done. I think though that didn't I think 1123 01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:55,280 Speaker 1: what what happened was there just this momentum that came 1124 01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:58,680 Speaker 1: with that that you know, and people, you know, Americans 1125 01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:01,520 Speaker 1: and others are you know, good hearted people, and they 1126 01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:04,120 Speaker 1: want they wanted to see the best for Afghanistan. They 1127 01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:06,760 Speaker 1: knew Afghanistan and been in a bad way for a 1128 01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:09,760 Speaker 1: long time, and so I think there's a momentum there 1129 01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,439 Speaker 1: they just got going about, oh, we need to help them, 1130 01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,360 Speaker 1: and uh, and I even supported that frankly because I 1131 01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,760 Speaker 1: got you know, I like, for instance, I talked about 1132 01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:19,560 Speaker 1: my book. I got to even though it's only briefly, 1133 01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:21,520 Speaker 1: only for like ten days with the Echo team, I 1134 01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,280 Speaker 1: got to know cars I and I really respected the guy, 1135 01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:28,560 Speaker 1: and I really was impressed with him, and uh, he 1136 01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:31,040 Speaker 1: had high hopes for his country, and I really wanted 1137 01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:34,320 Speaker 1: those hopes to come true. So I did kind of 1138 01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:37,560 Speaker 1: support that myself, but not so much the longer term 1139 01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:39,720 Speaker 1: and effort in terms of what has become. I was 1140 01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,920 Speaker 1: hoping that Afghanist would be able to stand up on 1141 01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,880 Speaker 1: their own two feet a lot sooner than what has happened. 1142 01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:48,680 Speaker 1: And I think that's where we, you know, trying to 1143 01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:52,080 Speaker 1: make that decision on Okay, what point do we start 1144 01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:54,400 Speaker 1: drawing back? At what point did we start drawing back? 1145 01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,400 Speaker 1: That's where it gets tricky, and you know, we we 1146 01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:00,800 Speaker 1: we tended to push in the d action of okay, 1147 01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,040 Speaker 1: we're having problem with us, just put more troops in this, 1148 01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,800 Speaker 1: you know, throw more money into the aid, that kind 1149 01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:11,480 Speaker 1: of things. And I, without necessarily fully reflecting on on 1150 01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,960 Speaker 1: what kind of country Afghanistan is, it's a as you know, 1151 01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:22,120 Speaker 1: it's a very poor very ethnically divided society. Yeah, it 1152 01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:25,120 Speaker 1: doesn't have a doesn't have a history of a central government, 1153 01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:29,280 Speaker 1: a strong effective central government. I think we were just 1154 01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:34,760 Speaker 1: a bit naive about what we could actually accomplish. And uh, 1155 01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,480 Speaker 1: I mean, this is an incredible story, and I mean 1156 01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,040 Speaker 1: I really thank you for sharing it with us today. Um. 1157 01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,440 Speaker 1: And from that point for you, what what was it 1158 01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,720 Speaker 1: going back home? And uh, you know what were your 1159 01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:51,240 Speaker 1: next steps after the Canada Hart mission. Well, I went 1160 01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,280 Speaker 1: back and I thought at that point when I got back, 1161 01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:55,080 Speaker 1: I knew it wasn't to be with counter Riston or 1162 01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,600 Speaker 1: any longer. I knew it was going back to any division, 1163 01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:00,120 Speaker 1: but I didn't have to have the job line up. 1164 01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:02,439 Speaker 1: I thought I'd probably end up going back to going 1165 01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,440 Speaker 1: to the FBI, which is I was originally gonna go 1166 01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:07,800 Speaker 1: to the FBI under the auspices of any division near 1167 01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:11,040 Speaker 1: East Division. But h and I thought, well, I'll finally 1168 01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:12,560 Speaker 1: get to do that job that I was supposed to 1169 01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:16,240 Speaker 1: do back in earlier in the fall. But they when 1170 01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,000 Speaker 1: I got back there, they said, hey, we would like 1171 01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:21,520 Speaker 1: you to uh stand up a new a new branch 1172 01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:25,400 Speaker 1: if you have a new office. Um that we had 1173 01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:30,200 Speaker 1: had responsibilities within any any division for Afghanistan. It wasn't 1174 01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:34,200 Speaker 1: the c T mission. It was earlier. Up until that point. 1175 01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:38,200 Speaker 1: For years, we had not had any office supporting a 1176 01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:41,720 Speaker 1: station in in Afghanistan because we didn't have a station 1177 01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:46,000 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan for many years. And now with the tournament events, 1178 01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:48,880 Speaker 1: after Night eleven and the fall of the Taliban uh 1179 01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,200 Speaker 1: in a in a better environment, we were going to 1180 01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:55,520 Speaker 1: have a station in in Afghanistan. So, um, that office 1181 01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:58,240 Speaker 1: that I stood up was to support that station. That station, 1182 01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:01,280 Speaker 1: you know, ultimately would become the the biggest station the 1183 01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:05,600 Speaker 1: CIA had in the world until until until the Rock 1184 01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:09,520 Speaker 1: came along and then then that changed. But that's a 1185 01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:13,000 Speaker 1: different story anyway. So I I worked on, I worked 1186 01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,800 Speaker 1: on I continue to be involved in afghan things there 1187 01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:19,560 Speaker 1: for another couple of years. Um, after I came back 1188 01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:22,640 Speaker 1: from Afghanistan, it just from my headquarters environment. I mean 1189 01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:24,400 Speaker 1: we did go back. I didn't go back to Afghanistan 1190 01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:27,800 Speaker 1: once and went to Pakistan once, but huh, I pretty 1191 01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,600 Speaker 1: much was it at headquarters at that point. So the 1192 01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:34,040 Speaker 1: book once again is Foxtrot and Kandahar, a memoir of 1193 01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:37,720 Speaker 1: a CIA officer in Afghanistan at the inception of America's 1194 01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:41,040 Speaker 1: longest war. It's actually Dwayne's second book. Uh, you could 1195 01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:44,520 Speaker 1: visit Dwayne Evans dot com. Anything else you want to 1196 01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:48,040 Speaker 1: get out there before we wrap this up with you. No, 1197 01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:50,880 Speaker 1: not at all the books available and all the sellers 1198 01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:53,840 Speaker 1: is available in electronic format too, if he was interested 1199 01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,240 Speaker 1: in it. And uh, I do appreciate the opportunity to 1200 01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:59,640 Speaker 1: talk to you. Guys have been a real pleasure and 1201 01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:03,640 Speaker 1: really they support your program. Thank you. Yeah, we appreciate 1202 01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:05,400 Speaker 1: having you on. I mean, like I said, this is 1203 01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:09,680 Speaker 1: one of those rare looks into paramilitary operations. And I 1204 01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:11,720 Speaker 1: mean I think this is Books like this are great 1205 01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,360 Speaker 1: because they're an eye opener. I mean, not just for me, 1206 01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:17,320 Speaker 1: but for you know, John Q. Public. You know, I 1207 01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:19,960 Speaker 1: think it's important for people to understand, you know, where 1208 01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:22,680 Speaker 1: their tax money is going. And we hope that the 1209 01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:27,800 Speaker 1: public supports these capabilities. Yeah, absolutely, I hope. I was 1210 01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:30,240 Speaker 1: hoping my book would be read by not just a 1211 01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:33,480 Speaker 1: military apuneded audience, but also by kind of a larger 1212 01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,480 Speaker 1: general public audience. If if that would be possible, I 1213 01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:39,840 Speaker 1: thought that might be useful our our audience, I will say, 1214 01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:41,840 Speaker 1: I mean, and getting to know them over the past 1215 01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:43,760 Speaker 1: few years if a good split there. Yeah, it's a 1216 01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:49,480 Speaker 1: good mix of people. Great, great, well, thank thank you again. 1217 01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:51,480 Speaker 1: All right, yeah, thank you, and I hope we talk 1218 01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:54,080 Speaker 1: again soon. All right, thank you. We'll talk to you 1219 01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:56,600 Speaker 1: later then, all right, take care, all right, bye bye. 1220 01:06:57,440 --> 01:06:59,960 Speaker 1: So we went pretty in depth there with with Dwayne 1221 01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,439 Speaker 1: in that was great once again. Pick up the book 1222 01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:05,720 Speaker 1: Foxtrot and kandahar Um. So I didn't get to talk 1223 01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:08,040 Speaker 1: to you about this during the intro, figured I would 1224 01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:10,840 Speaker 1: tell you I finally have checked out some of Tesla's 1225 01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:14,280 Speaker 1: death ray. Yeah, well you know what it was is. 1226 01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:17,800 Speaker 1: So I live in Port Washington. My parents Ernmond Hashett 1227 01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,560 Speaker 1: where I grew up, which is like literally right next door. 1228 01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:22,520 Speaker 1: It's two minutes drive for me. So I'll go over 1229 01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:25,160 Speaker 1: there sometimes do my laundry there, even though actually have 1230 01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:26,600 Speaker 1: a washing machine in my house, but they have like 1231 01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:29,040 Speaker 1: a bigger room where you get hand grushed up. Anyway, 1232 01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,200 Speaker 1: I'll go over there and do some laundry. And I 1233 01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:35,440 Speaker 1: put on like Io on demand just while I'm showing there, 1234 01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,680 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, they have Tesla's death ray 1235 01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:40,800 Speaker 1: on demand and I finally checked some of that at out. 1236 01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:43,800 Speaker 1: It is an extremely well done show. The thing that 1237 01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,400 Speaker 1: was interesting to me more than anything was that, like, 1238 01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:49,760 Speaker 1: for example, had you have not been able to go 1239 01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:52,400 Speaker 1: to that museum, meet with someone, get your hands on 1240 01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:55,440 Speaker 1: the actual documents, this would end up being a pretty 1241 01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:58,640 Speaker 1: lack luster show, and like there was no guarantee that 1242 01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:03,240 Speaker 1: you would get that opportunity. Well, the we also built, 1243 01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:06,200 Speaker 1: or I should say Aaron built that death ray up, 1244 01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:09,440 Speaker 1: which is the most remarkable thing, which that's the most impressive. 1245 01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:11,680 Speaker 1: Still I still haven't seen the last episode, but that 1246 01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:14,240 Speaker 1: was really cool. But other than that, yeah, I agree 1247 01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:17,599 Speaker 1: that documents and getting those never before seen documents out 1248 01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:20,080 Speaker 1: of the museum in Belgrade was really cool. But what 1249 01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:22,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, what would Discovery have done if 1250 01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:24,599 Speaker 1: they flew you all the way out to Belgrade, you know, 1251 01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,599 Speaker 1: and you just could not get there, because it seems 1252 01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,559 Speaker 1: very likely that that you wouldn't And this isn't a 1253 01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:34,840 Speaker 1: prescripted show. So well, yes, and no, there's some television 1254 01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:37,880 Speaker 1: magic happening behind the scenes. I mean, the producers had 1255 01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:42,639 Speaker 1: been they scouted out Belgrade, and I believe they had 1256 01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:45,280 Speaker 1: done some things to help butter up the museum a 1257 01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:47,160 Speaker 1: little bit. So I mean, we had some idea that 1258 01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:48,720 Speaker 1: we were going to have some access when we went 1259 01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,000 Speaker 1: in there. Um, I love that the woman was like, 1260 01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:54,519 Speaker 1: don't touch that, she's getting upset with me. I was like, no, 1261 01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:56,080 Speaker 1: I'm not going to touch them, don't worry. She was 1262 01:08:56,200 --> 01:09:01,160 Speaker 1: very nice. Um, but yeah, having those documents was really 1263 01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:03,600 Speaker 1: cool and I was really exciting to see those. I 1264 01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,519 Speaker 1: mean like pictures that drawings that Tesla had did in 1265 01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:08,639 Speaker 1: his own hand, And I mean when you look at him, 1266 01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:10,519 Speaker 1: you know exactly what you're looking at the second you 1267 01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:13,120 Speaker 1: see him. Yeah, Yeah, this guy was amazing And I 1268 01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:15,960 Speaker 1: think that you did a great job, you know, basically 1269 01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,479 Speaker 1: doing something outside of your usual comfort zone. I guess 1270 01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:22,240 Speaker 1: you would say, yeah, mosting a program like this and 1271 01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:25,320 Speaker 1: I dug it. And for people wondering, yeah, if you 1272 01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:28,880 Speaker 1: have like Io or a lot of digital on demand 1273 01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:31,800 Speaker 1: cable services, you'll be able to check out all the episodes. Yeah. 1274 01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:34,440 Speaker 1: I still have to see the Um, the last episode 1275 01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,200 Speaker 1: of it. There's my friend, actually my co star on 1276 01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:40,280 Speaker 1: the show, Cameron. Yeah. He posted a picture of the 1277 01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:43,080 Speaker 1: death ray UM blowing up when we blow up some 1278 01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:47,479 Speaker 1: drones and it's it's basically a giant Tesla coil. And 1279 01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,160 Speaker 1: my daughter sees a picture and She's like, Daddy, is 1280 01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:53,240 Speaker 1: that the death ray? Like it sure is a little girl. 1281 01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:57,880 Speaker 1: The guy putting it together is Aaron. Yeah. See, to me, 1282 01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:00,960 Speaker 1: what he does is the most markable thing in the show. 1283 01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:02,800 Speaker 1: Like it's funny that you and Cameron are the stars 1284 01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:06,519 Speaker 1: of the show because you know, look, I respect what 1285 01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,120 Speaker 1: you do as an investigative journalist and all that. But 1286 01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:11,160 Speaker 1: this guy, I'm like, holy sh it, to put this 1287 01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:14,400 Speaker 1: thing together, I wouldn't know the first thing of what 1288 01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,400 Speaker 1: to do. That's actually like his full time job. That's 1289 01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:22,479 Speaker 1: what he does is he builds Tesla coils um for museums. Um, 1290 01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:24,640 Speaker 1: he's done them for like rock concerts and stuff like 1291 01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:29,479 Speaker 1: that people want like special effects. So um, and I 1292 01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,479 Speaker 1: think that one he built it was twenty ft high, 1293 01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:36,960 Speaker 1: I think, and um, I think it worked even better 1294 01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:39,360 Speaker 1: than he thought it would. Like, I don't think he 1295 01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:42,720 Speaker 1: was so sure it was gonna work the first time 1296 01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:45,840 Speaker 1: we fired it up, but um, and it did take 1297 01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:48,280 Speaker 1: a little bit of messing around with you know, um 1298 01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:50,160 Speaker 1: to calibrate it. And you just have to talk to 1299 01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:54,120 Speaker 1: Aaron to get all the technical details of it. But um, 1300 01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:57,439 Speaker 1: when we put the we remember we tested it and 1301 01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:01,280 Speaker 1: they started firing out. You know, BLTs of lightning essentially 1302 01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:04,840 Speaker 1: started electricity and like, okay, it's working. Uh got the 1303 01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:07,280 Speaker 1: drone up and I mean flew the drone right in 1304 01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:10,360 Speaker 1: front of it and boom, first time it went. So 1305 01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:12,799 Speaker 1: that's awesome. Yeah. I think we blew up two drones 1306 01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,560 Speaker 1: that night, and I mean they both went went up immediately, 1307 01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:18,920 Speaker 1: you know, So it was pretty cool. So yeah, if 1308 01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:21,280 Speaker 1: you're like me and waited to check it out, go 1309 01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:24,719 Speaker 1: check out Tesla's death ray a murder to classified. Um. 1310 01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:28,360 Speaker 1: It's on demand for a lot of people. And I 1311 01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:30,920 Speaker 1: wanted to get to this email as well because it 1312 01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:33,599 Speaker 1: was an interesting one. So, uh, Kurt and I talked 1313 01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:35,840 Speaker 1: pretty in depth about the gun issue last week. I 1314 01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,040 Speaker 1: mean it was a shorter episode because I was in 1315 01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:41,000 Speaker 1: here with Jerick Robbins, the son of Tony Robbins, for 1316 01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:43,000 Speaker 1: like three hours, and I was ready to get out 1317 01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:47,000 Speaker 1: of here. Um. But anyway, so this is from Ryan. Hey, guys, 1318 01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:49,280 Speaker 1: enjoyed the show the other day. My buddy and I 1319 01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:51,280 Speaker 1: were kicking around an idea the other day that I 1320 01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:54,040 Speaker 1: thought i'd share with you guys. In this country, lately, 1321 01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:57,919 Speaker 1: we seem to have a deadlock on any meaningful gun reform. Meanwhile, 1322 01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:00,320 Speaker 1: the problems aren't being solved. We fear or if no 1323 01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,799 Speaker 1: progress or compromises can be made, school shootings will continue, 1324 01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:06,320 Speaker 1: which will push more and more people toward a band. 1325 01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:08,919 Speaker 1: And we don't believe that needs to be the solution. 1326 01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:12,759 Speaker 1: What we had. What if we had one federal standard 1327 01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:15,280 Speaker 1: for gun licenses. You would have to submit a criminal 1328 01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:18,000 Speaker 1: and mental health background check and take a safety course 1329 01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:21,520 Speaker 1: for proper and safe handling an operation of a firearm. 1330 01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:24,200 Speaker 1: This could be waived by military police or gun range 1331 01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:27,040 Speaker 1: professional training. Once you have the license, you can buy 1332 01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:30,599 Speaker 1: anything you want, automatic, suppressed, etcetera, and carry it open 1333 01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:33,439 Speaker 1: or concealed anywhere in the US. You would need to 1334 01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:36,879 Speaker 1: renew the license periodically, say every four years for example. 1335 01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:39,679 Speaker 1: I feel that this addresses concerns from the left about 1336 01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:41,840 Speaker 1: the ease of getting guns and how the process can 1337 01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:44,479 Speaker 1: differ from state to state. It would also respect gun 1338 01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,599 Speaker 1: owners on the right, UH on the right, who realize 1339 01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:49,880 Speaker 1: if you have no intention of murdering people, it doesn't 1340 01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:52,280 Speaker 1: matter what gun you own. If you guys think this 1341 01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:54,400 Speaker 1: idea could go somewhere, please bring it up on the 1342 01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:57,599 Speaker 1: next broadcast. I really do believe as Americans, we can 1343 01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:00,439 Speaker 1: come up with suitable compromise. It doesn't Nest certainly have 1344 01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,000 Speaker 1: to come from Washington. Love the show, Keep up the 1345 01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,760 Speaker 1: good work. That's from Ryan, sent once again to soft 1346 01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,320 Speaker 1: Rep dot Radio at softrep dot com. I check all 1347 01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:13,280 Speaker 1: the emails. Um, I absolutely appreciate you checking out the 1348 01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:16,040 Speaker 1: show personally, and I want to hear your take. I 1349 01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:19,080 Speaker 1: do not think this would be realistic. Yeah, I think 1350 01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:22,599 Speaker 1: there's actually some constitutional issues involved for one to have 1351 01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:26,360 Speaker 1: a federal gun law like that. Yeah, with open carry. 1352 01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:30,320 Speaker 1: The whole idea of of you know, having a constitutional 1353 01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:33,639 Speaker 1: republic is that state to state you have very different laws. 1354 01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,280 Speaker 1: And this isn't a popular thing to say in this 1355 01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:39,599 Speaker 1: day and age right now. But for the most part, 1356 01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm fine with the gun laws the way that they are. 1357 01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:45,400 Speaker 1: I think we just need to enforce the actual laws. Um. 1358 01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:48,080 Speaker 1: You know, uh, like I think if Chicago wants to 1359 01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:52,120 Speaker 1: pretty much have no Second Amendment rights for that city, 1360 01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:54,360 Speaker 1: that's their right to do. I think that, well, there's 1361 01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:57,759 Speaker 1: there's limitations on that too. You can't ban no second 1362 01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:01,320 Speaker 1: it's just about it's it's just about eradicated in Chicago 1363 01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:03,559 Speaker 1: as it is in New York City. For the most part, 1364 01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:06,880 Speaker 1: and that is the state's rights issue. Just like you know, 1365 01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:09,799 Speaker 1: if you don't like it, moved to Texas, moved Florida, 1366 01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:13,400 Speaker 1: and I entirely agree with that. Yeah, I mean I 1367 01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:16,240 Speaker 1: understand the logic of it. Like somebody was telling me 1368 01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:21,440 Speaker 1: as at a at somebody's house visiting. They're like, you know, um, 1369 01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:24,439 Speaker 1: we should have a federal concealed carry permit, And I 1370 01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:25,920 Speaker 1: was like, and I was like, you know, it's not 1371 01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:28,400 Speaker 1: a bad idea, because like, you have a concealed carry 1372 01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:30,960 Speaker 1: permit and you know, one state, and then you travel 1373 01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,280 Speaker 1: in New York and suddenly you're getting arrested, you know, 1374 01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:36,320 Speaker 1: because you're not in compliance with state laws. And having 1375 01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:39,160 Speaker 1: a federal concealed carry permit, you know, you go and 1376 01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:41,799 Speaker 1: take some test and now your federal quote unquote federally 1377 01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:45,280 Speaker 1: qualified and carry concealed firearm wherever you want in the country. 1378 01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,840 Speaker 1: I understand the logic behind that. But if this guy 1379 01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:51,680 Speaker 1: thinks that the Left would be in any way satisfied 1380 01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:55,360 Speaker 1: by that or would say, oh, yeah, you could open 1381 01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:59,840 Speaker 1: carry a automatic weapon, there is absolutely no way that 1382 01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:01,840 Speaker 1: would be like, oh, this is a fair compromise. And 1383 01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:03,880 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be demeaning to the email. It's 1384 01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:06,280 Speaker 1: just I don't see it being real estal. I mean, 1385 01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:08,120 Speaker 1: it depends what you mean when you say the left. 1386 01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:09,960 Speaker 1: I mean I think there are Democrats out there who 1387 01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:12,920 Speaker 1: are are willing to compromise, But there are also tons 1388 01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:15,200 Speaker 1: of people out there who, yeah, they do want a 1389 01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:17,720 Speaker 1: gun band and that's it, and that's why we hear 1390 01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:19,880 Speaker 1: all this talk about banning the A R fifteen, And 1391 01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:24,080 Speaker 1: I'm just like, if you know anything about firearms, you 1392 01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:27,439 Speaker 1: know that doesn't make sense. And banning a R fifteen, like, 1393 01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:30,280 Speaker 1: there are many other semi automatic weapons out there you 1394 01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:34,360 Speaker 1: could use um and most mass shootings are conducted with pistols. 1395 01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:37,680 Speaker 1: So you know, you ban the a R fifteen and 1396 01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:40,519 Speaker 1: then you know, the statistics clearly show most people aren't 1397 01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,519 Speaker 1: being killed with a R fifteen. So now you now 1398 01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:45,599 Speaker 1: you're now, what are we going to after this? So 1399 01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:48,679 Speaker 1: then we're going to have to ban all semi automatic weapons? 1400 01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:50,519 Speaker 1: Are we going back down that room? Well? I think 1401 01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:53,320 Speaker 1: that could be a lot of people on the anti 1402 01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:56,519 Speaker 1: gun left strategies. You know, you slowly chip away no 1403 01:15:56,800 --> 01:16:01,400 Speaker 1: R fifteen. Yeah, it's it's what a lot of people believe. 1404 01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:04,320 Speaker 1: And also another problem I had with the email. Um 1405 01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:06,719 Speaker 1: was when you said that with the mental health stuff, 1406 01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:10,000 Speaker 1: you would waive it for military. Uh, let me just 1407 01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:13,479 Speaker 1: go back to what you actually said. Uh, Ryan, Oh yeah, 1408 01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:15,120 Speaker 1: you would have you have to submit to a criminal 1409 01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:17,639 Speaker 1: and mental health background shack and take a safety course 1410 01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:21,040 Speaker 1: for proper and safe handling. Um, this could be waived 1411 01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:24,320 Speaker 1: by military police. All right. So my problem is, I mean, 1412 01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:26,080 Speaker 1: it's just a fact that a lot of people who 1413 01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:29,600 Speaker 1: do have the mental health issues are former military, So 1414 01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,559 Speaker 1: why would they be waved from that? Yeah, I mean 1415 01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:35,200 Speaker 1: that's a thing when you get into this whole mental 1416 01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:37,759 Speaker 1: health issue. And I do believe we should do better 1417 01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:41,840 Speaker 1: with and we can do better with some sort of 1418 01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:45,640 Speaker 1: like mental health screening or something like that, but we 1419 01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:48,840 Speaker 1: do have to be thoughtful and deliberate about that because like, 1420 01:16:48,920 --> 01:16:53,040 Speaker 1: if you know, if a guy for just who decides 1421 01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:55,680 Speaker 1: who's meant? That's my biggest problem. So how's that going 1422 01:16:55,720 --> 01:16:58,080 Speaker 1: to work? Yeah? My, because I feel like if we're 1423 01:16:58,120 --> 01:16:59,760 Speaker 1: keeping it out of the hands of people who are 1424 01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:03,840 Speaker 1: really mentally ill. Absolutely agree with that, but then what 1425 01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:06,400 Speaker 1: if you know, what if let's say you Jack Murphy, 1426 01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:09,200 Speaker 1: who's a veteran, sees a therapist and you say something 1427 01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:11,000 Speaker 1: to the effective and this is not true. But you 1428 01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:13,800 Speaker 1: say I have anger issues sometimes, but I just I 1429 01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:17,120 Speaker 1: feel violent sometimes. And what if your therapist is someone 1430 01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:21,679 Speaker 1: who's on the anti gun left and wants to you know, well, 1431 01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:23,760 Speaker 1: it's something that wouldn't it wouldn't even be that, it 1432 01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:26,840 Speaker 1: would be there would be something that would federally mandate. 1433 01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:28,720 Speaker 1: You know, It's like if you go and you tell 1434 01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:31,880 Speaker 1: your therapist. I'm thinking of like shooting up at school, 1435 01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:34,920 Speaker 1: the therapist has a legal requirement to report. But then, 1436 01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:38,800 Speaker 1: once again, slippery slope. What about if if you're if 1437 01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:42,400 Speaker 1: the therapist patient just says I'm an angry person sometimes 1438 01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:45,439 Speaker 1: I sometimes want to do something violent. Is that a threat? 1439 01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:49,240 Speaker 1: I mean it could be, um, but a lot of 1440 01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:51,960 Speaker 1: people feel that way and then they don't act on it. Yeah, 1441 01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:55,200 Speaker 1: of course. UM So yeah, I do think it's a 1442 01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:57,360 Speaker 1: difficult issue. I think we can do better with it, 1443 01:17:57,400 --> 01:17:59,360 Speaker 1: and I think we can take steps to work to 1444 01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:03,840 Speaker 1: UM say, look, this person is so mentally impaired, psychologically 1445 01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:06,240 Speaker 1: impaired that they should not be able to buy a firearm. 1446 01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:07,840 Speaker 1: I think there's got to be some way we can 1447 01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:09,880 Speaker 1: do it. In some way we can do better. But 1448 01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:11,599 Speaker 1: we do have to be careful about at the same 1449 01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:16,280 Speaker 1: time that we don't go around just labeling people mentally ill. 1450 01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:19,640 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's very concerning, and I just I 1451 01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:21,920 Speaker 1: do think that there should be a different state to state. 1452 01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,000 Speaker 1: I think that's part of like that you move to 1453 01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:26,760 Speaker 1: a state because the laws are more in tune of 1454 01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:28,920 Speaker 1: what you want. There's there's a lot of people who 1455 01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:31,880 Speaker 1: are not informed that will say that, like if we 1456 01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:35,680 Speaker 1: have a Supreme Court justice who gets rid of roversus wade, 1457 01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:39,280 Speaker 1: that abortion will be completely illegal. That's not the case. 1458 01:18:39,320 --> 01:18:41,559 Speaker 1: It would actually be more like the gun laws in America, 1459 01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:45,360 Speaker 1: where if New York wants to have very easy access 1460 01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:48,679 Speaker 1: to abortions, then that would be their law. If Texas 1461 01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:50,720 Speaker 1: wants to make it harder to get an abortion, that 1462 01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:53,599 Speaker 1: would be their law. I actually do like the state's 1463 01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:57,400 Speaker 1: rights way of doing things. I am more of a 1464 01:18:57,439 --> 01:19:00,439 Speaker 1: state's rights kind of guy. Yeah. Um, I know, like 1465 01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:04,479 Speaker 1: people get all but heard about, especially the people on 1466 01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:06,960 Speaker 1: the far left tool who will say that you're then 1467 01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:12,760 Speaker 1: for slavery or something ridiculous. Man, I can't I can't 1468 01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:16,679 Speaker 1: even engage with so many people talk politics, whether they're 1469 01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:21,679 Speaker 1: left wing or right wing, because it's just like it's exhausting. Yeah, yeah, 1470 01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:24,000 Speaker 1: I agree, and that's why I really don't except with 1471 01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:27,120 Speaker 1: you guys want to do this podcast and a few 1472 01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:30,880 Speaker 1: other reasonable people. Um what else did I want to 1473 01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:34,920 Speaker 1: mention here? Um? I guess that's really about it. I mean, 1474 01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:36,680 Speaker 1: we have some great guests coming up. I don't want 1475 01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:39,160 Speaker 1: to ruin some of them because, like one of them 1476 01:19:39,160 --> 01:19:42,200 Speaker 1: in particular, you know who I'm talking about, has been 1477 01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:45,760 Speaker 1: highly uh requested by the listeners. So you have a 1478 01:19:45,800 --> 01:19:49,280 Speaker 1: bunch of great guests coming up over the next month. Yeah, 1479 01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:53,840 Speaker 1: and people from all different walks of life, I'll say. Um, So, 1480 01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:56,560 Speaker 1: wrapping things up here as a reminder for all of 1481 01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:58,599 Speaker 1: those who are listening. For a limited time, you can 1482 01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:02,439 Speaker 1: receive a fifty percent it discounted membership to soft rep TV, 1483 01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:06,519 Speaker 1: our channel that offers the most exclusive shows, documentaries, and 1484 01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:11,200 Speaker 1: interviews covering the most exciting military content today. Softwarep TV 1485 01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:15,240 Speaker 1: is premier show. Training Sell follows former Special Operations forces 1486 01:20:15,520 --> 01:20:18,800 Speaker 1: as they participate in the most advanced training in the country, 1487 01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:24,519 Speaker 1: everything from shooting schools, defensive driving, jungle and winter warfare, climbing, 1488 01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:27,920 Speaker 1: and much more. Again, you can watch this content by 1489 01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:31,719 Speaker 1: subscribing to Softwrep TV. It's a Softwrep TV dot us 1490 01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:34,759 Speaker 1: and take advantage of a limited time offer of fifty 1491 01:20:35,240 --> 01:20:38,880 Speaker 1: off your membership only for a month. And if you 1492 01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:40,800 Speaker 1: haven't gotten a chance to check out the soft Rep 1493 01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,880 Speaker 1: Crate Club, you're definitely gonna want to do that asap. 1494 01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:46,880 Speaker 1: It's a subscription to get a box of badass, tactical 1495 01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:50,599 Speaker 1: and survival gear delivered to your door every month. Here's 1496 01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:53,599 Speaker 1: the kicker. All of the gears handpicked and tested by 1497 01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:56,639 Speaker 1: former special ops guys, so you know you're getting quality 1498 01:20:56,720 --> 01:20:58,960 Speaker 1: year that's gonna work when you need it to Crates. 1499 01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:01,759 Speaker 1: We've sent in the past of included gear like custom knives, 1500 01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:05,200 Speaker 1: multi tools, fire starters, E d C, med kits and 1501 01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:07,920 Speaker 1: other kick ass stuff. You don't just get great gear 1502 01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:11,000 Speaker 1: with your subscription, you're also supporting a veteran owned and 1503 01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:14,200 Speaker 1: run company. To subscribe and start getting your gear, there's 1504 01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:17,400 Speaker 1: a great Club dot us. We also gift options available. 1505 01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:21,479 Speaker 1: That's great Club dot Us. UM. Last things I wanted 1506 01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:24,439 Speaker 1: to mention before we get out of here. Yesterday was 1507 01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:30,600 Speaker 1: actually the twenty five anniversary of the attack on the 1508 01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:34,559 Speaker 1: World Trade Center. Oh yeah, yes, I posted something about that, 1509 01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:38,880 Speaker 1: which you know people did, unfortunately die in and you know, 1510 01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:41,040 Speaker 1: not to the level of nine eleven, of course, but 1511 01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:43,880 Speaker 1: there were attacks. There was a precursor to nine eleven. 1512 01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:45,240 Speaker 1: They were hoping that they were going to be able 1513 01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:49,320 Speaker 1: to collapse one tower into the other. Yeah. Um, so 1514 01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:52,439 Speaker 1: rest in peace to those who died and wanted to 1515 01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:54,639 Speaker 1: recognize that. And then the other thing. I took down 1516 01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:57,840 Speaker 1: a lot of the older episodes because prior I took 1517 01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:00,160 Speaker 1: them off SoundCloud and iTunes. Prior we were doing him 1518 01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:02,920 Speaker 1: that thing where it was for subscribers, and we had 1519 01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:05,479 Speaker 1: certain episodes that were like cut in half. I figured 1520 01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:07,320 Speaker 1: it was a lot easier just go to soft rep 1521 01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:09,960 Speaker 1: dot com slash radio and you could listen to all 1522 01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:12,160 Speaker 1: those episodes in their entirety. So if there's a back 1523 01:22:12,200 --> 01:22:15,840 Speaker 1: episode you don't see on iTunes, um or SoundCloud or 1524 01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:18,320 Speaker 1: wherever you listen, just go to soft rep dot com 1525 01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:22,200 Speaker 1: slash radio and every episode from one on is there. 1526 01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:24,960 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of stuff. I mean, Marcus Latrell 1527 01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:28,640 Speaker 1: was on the podcast before I was ever even here. Um. 1528 01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:31,920 Speaker 1: We've had some really cool guests. Uh Montell Williams that 1529 01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:33,960 Speaker 1: was an interesting one. I'd like to get him on 1530 01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:38,600 Speaker 1: at some point. Again, but because he's uh, a military 1531 01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:42,200 Speaker 1: venue seems you know, he doesn't consider himself to the left, 1532 01:22:42,280 --> 01:22:44,519 Speaker 1: but a lot of people seem to label him that way. 1533 01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:46,960 Speaker 1: He certainly was not a Trump supporter and was very 1534 01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:52,080 Speaker 1: vocal about it. Oh yeah, yeah, he openly voted for 1535 01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:55,960 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, was pretty vocal about it. And a lot 1536 01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:57,880 Speaker 1: of people on the right one one after him. But 1537 01:22:57,920 --> 01:22:59,880 Speaker 1: he's uh, he was an interesting guest. The thing of 1538 01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,559 Speaker 1: on him is he he gets very emotional during like 1539 01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:05,360 Speaker 1: every interview you're concluding the one we did with him. Yeah, yeah, 1540 01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:07,920 Speaker 1: you can see it. It's always right beneath the surface. Yeah, 1541 01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:10,160 Speaker 1: I mean, and and I think it's genuine. I think 1542 01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:14,160 Speaker 1: he's very passionate about veterans issues. Yeah I think so too. Yeah. 1543 01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:17,960 Speaker 1: All right, Um, anything else before we wrap this up? No, 1544 01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:21,880 Speaker 1: I think that's it for now. Um. Check out Tiger 1545 01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:24,280 Speaker 1: Swan if you haven't read it already. It's a very long, 1546 01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:26,920 Speaker 1: in depth article. You're holding a bunch of documents that 1547 01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:29,080 Speaker 1: you probably can't talk about. I know, I'm not going 1548 01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:31,040 Speaker 1: to talk about what's in them, but I have a 1549 01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:33,559 Speaker 1: bunch of documents in my hands, which will be a 1550 01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:39,040 Speaker 1: future story on a different topic. Are gonna be interesting 1551 01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:42,280 Speaker 1: to say the least, and Brandon will be back next 1552 01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:46,120 Speaker 1: episode for a special appearance with Rob O'Neill if everything 1553 01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:49,599 Speaker 1: goes accordingly, so he should be here. Uh alright, guys, 1554 01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:52,800 Speaker 1: as always leave a review on Apple Podcasts, follow us 1555 01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:57,439 Speaker 1: on Twitter, Instagram at Software Radio. You follow Jack at 1556 01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:00,880 Speaker 1: Jack Murphy r g R on Twitter, at Act mcmurph 1557 01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:04,479 Speaker 1: on Instagram, and if you go to Jack mcmurph on 1558 01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:06,360 Speaker 1: Instagram you find me on there. You get to see 1559 01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:10,240 Speaker 1: all my Dungeons and Dragons photos with they'll play with 1560 01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:12,280 Speaker 1: my daughter. Yeah, so you kind of keep it separate 1561 01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:15,800 Speaker 1: from all the sap stuff. I'm just like at that 1562 01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:17,479 Speaker 1: point in my life, like I don't feel the need 1563 01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:20,960 Speaker 1: to post like Jim Picks and like me wearing camouflage, 1564 01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:22,640 Speaker 1: Like I don't feel they need to show boat and 1565 01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:24,600 Speaker 1: like prove how tough I am all the time. You know, 1566 01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:29,000 Speaker 1: It's it's not that kind of special operations dude bro 1567 01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:32,240 Speaker 1: Instagram account that you probably normally find, like I just 1568 01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:35,519 Speaker 1: don't give a ship anymore dragon. Yeah, you're going it's 1569 01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:38,920 Speaker 1: like that. It's like stupid stuff I've done. You'll see 1570 01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:41,479 Speaker 1: like pictures of me on vacation. I mean, it's nothing 1571 01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:46,040 Speaker 1: that exciting. You've been listening to Self Rep Radio. New 1572 01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:49,519 Speaker 1: episodes up every Wednesday and Friday for all of the 1573 01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:53,320 Speaker 1: great content from our veteran journalists. Join us and become 1574 01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:56,400 Speaker 1: a Team Moon member today at solf rep dot com. 1575 01:24:56,880 --> 01:25:00,759 Speaker 1: Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter at so rep Radio, 1576 01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:03,840 Speaker 1: and be sure to also check out the Power of 1577 01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:08,880 Speaker 1: Thought podcast, hosted by Hurricane Group CEO and Navy Seal 1578 01:25:08,960 --> 01:25:22,720 Speaker 1: Sniper instructor Brandon Webb, M