WEBVTT - #468 Jason Flom with Terrel Barros 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:09.200 We initially released Terrell Barrows's story on June twenty fourth, 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:13.119 twenty twenty based on newly discovered evidence and witnesses. His 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.720 conviction was vacated and he was released on bail on 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:19.000 August fifteenth, twenty twenty three, right into the arms of 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:22.480 his mother. I remember getting the call from his advocate, 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:26.000 Nurjana Hindi, one of the former students with Georgetown's making 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.280 an xana ree class, and I think I I think 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:31.760 I almost passed out. Honestly, I was so excited and 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:35.000 I'm so happy to hear the good news, and we 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:37.959 hope that now Rhode Island will do the right thing 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:42.040 and dismiss all the charges. Here's our original coverage from 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:48.200 when Terrell was still on the inside. August twenty six, 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:52.320 twenty twelve, started off as a relatively normal night. Terrell 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:55.400 Barrows was at Monet Lounge in Providence, Rhode Island, with 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.400 Stephan Boden and some other friends. 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:02.360 In disagreement ensued between Stephan and two other clubgoers, Rokeem 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:06.679 Henley and Jamal Cruz, but the tension didn't boil over 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.840 until later in the parking lot. See Stefanboden wanted his 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.839 cigarettes and he would ask Torell for his car keys 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:15.880 because that's where they were, So he left ahead of 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.800 the group, and as fate would have it, who was 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.520 parked right next to Terrell, but Jamal and Rokeem, who 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:27.160 were now ominously approaching. Terrell and the rest of his friends, though, 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.720 were just arriving on the scene and trying to avoid 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.360 the drama, So Terrell made for the driver's side door, 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:37.960 and then gunshots. Terrell quickly ducked into the driver's seat 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.560 and Stephan bod jumped into the passenger side. Seconds later, 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.400 the cops were at the car and they saw Stepan 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:48.240 trying to hide the gun. Stepan confessed on the spot 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:49.960 to the shooting as both. 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:50.560 Men were cuffed. 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:55.360 An intoxicated and mortally wounded Jamal Cruz had put his 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.440 head down when shown Terrell a far cry from an identification, 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:03.120 but that didn't stop a detective from testifying a trial 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:08.280 about a quote unquote dying declaration. The state even ignored 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:14.080 Stephan Boden's immediate and uncoerced confession, forging blindly ahead to 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:18.400 ultimately send Torell to prison, where he remains to this day, 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:24.440 serving two consecutive life sentences plus thirty years. This is 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:32.680 Wrongful Conviction with Jason Plomm. Wrongful Conviction has always given 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:35.480 voice to innocent people in prison, and now we're expanding 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.240 that voice to you. Call us at eight three three 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.160 two oh seven four six sixty six and tell us 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:44.800 how these stories make you feel and what you've done 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.239 to help the cause, even if it's something as simple 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.520 as telling a friend or sharing on social media, and 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.320 you might just hear yourself in a future episode. Call 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.520 us A three three two oh seven four six sixty six. 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:11.119 Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. Today we're 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:15.560 going to be discussing the really troubling case of Terrell Barrows, 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:19.000 who was wrongfully convicted of a shooting in which one 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.760 person was killed and another was badly injured. And with 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.799 us today we have a student at Georgetown who's been 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.920 doing incredible work investigating his case under the leadership of 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:34.120 my friend, Professor Mark Howard. So Nurgenna Hendy, welcome to 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:34.560 the show. 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:36.200 Thank you, Jason. 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:40.720 The Georgetown class that Nurgenna is a student in is 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:43.840 taught by Mark Howard and a name that you'll recognize 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.600 from being on our show more than once. Marty Tankleff, 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.920 and of course this class was directly responsible for the 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:55.280 exoneration of Valentino Dixon. If you haven't heard his episode, 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.640 please go back and listen to it. It's extraordinary. So 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.120 we hope to be hearing from Terrell Barrows very soon. 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:04.320 Of course, in this COVID time that we're in, it's 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:06.920 very hard to get to the phones in prison, but 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.560 we will be discussing his case and hopefully hearing from 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:16.080 him as the podcast progresses. So let's go back to 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:17.320 twenty twelve. 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:22.560 Back in August of twenty twelve, Terrell Barrows and a 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:26.720 group of friends headed out to Monet Lounge in Providence, 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:30.119 Rhode Island. While they're in the club, there's some sort 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.720 of verbal altercation between Terrell's group and a couple of 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.600 members of another group, including the two that got shot. 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:39.159 One was Rokeem Henley, who got shot in the leg 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.400 and who I spoke with a couple of times over 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.400 the past few months, and then Jamal Cruz who ended 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.760 up dying that night. But Terrell wasn't a part of 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.560 that verbal altercation. It was stuff in Boden who was 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.800 and so a name was called Someone's hat got tapped 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:56.240 off their head and then no one really stays. There's 0:04:56.240 --> 0:05:00.280 not a physical altercation at all. Later on in the night, 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.240 Stephan Bowden asked Terrell. He goes, hey, let me get 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.760 the tack to go get your car keys. So as 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:10.239 he's heading over, there is another car that is parked 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:14.520 bumper to bumper with Terrell's car, and it just happens 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.520 to be the car of Jamal Cruz. 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:19.800 Stephen thought that. 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:23.600 Jamal and roe Keem were coming to cause problems, when 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.400 in reality they were just walking to their car. Stefan 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:30.520 grabs the gun and you know, witnesses say he told 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:34.000 them don't come any closer. And at this point Terrell 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.799 starts heading over to his car with his group of friends. 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.760 Terrell is about ten to fifteen feet away from Stefan 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.800 Bowden and Jamal Cruz, which is where all eyewitnesses placed 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.360 him as well, and he's actually walking to get to 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:48.160 the other side of his car to hop in the 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.120 driver's seat because he knows that there's trouble about to 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:52.680 happen he doesn't want to be a part of it. 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.520 He hears two gun shots, he jumps into the driver's 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:00.640 seat and almost immediately Stefan jumps into the passat and 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.560 the cops are there to arrest them. 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.720 And there's more to this too, because when Stephan jumped 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.520 into the passenger seat, he had it sort of a 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.720 moment of self awareness right where he started apologizing to 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.440 Terrell for sort of involving him in this. 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:17.640 Yeah, you know. 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.479 At this point, the arresting officers are on either side 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.000 and the gun is still with Stephan Bowden. He is 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.840 caught concealing the gun in the passenger side door, and 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.760 Stefan actually confesses on the scene. He said it's me, 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.920 It's all me, It's all mine. Yet they are both arrested, 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.279 taken to a paddy wagon, and then there's a show 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.039 up that is done. Now they spoke with a couple 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.120 of jury members who told me this is what caused 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:50.919 us to believe Terrell is guilty. So in the show ups, 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.880 they bring Stephan over to Jamal, who was in critical 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:58.760 condition on the floor, extremely intoxicated, and they say, is 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:02.239 this the man that shot you? And Jamal looks away. 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:07.280 Apparently when they bring over Terrell, Detective Matrasia says, Jamal. 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.680 Nods, that's what they say he did. It doesn't matter 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:12.880 if he nodded or not. He was in no position 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.600 to make any identification of anyone, and we still don't 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.800 know if he did. It's not like he stuck his 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.320 finger out and went, yeah, that's the guy who shot me. 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.080 Then he's out right, that's not what happened. 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:25.800 They actually did not even do a show up identification 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.560 with the other guy, Rokeim Henley, who was shot and 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:31.280 he was not in critical condition. 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:33.720 They also didn't bother to swab the hands of either 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.840 Terrell or Stephan, right, that would be so critical to 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:42.680 figuring out who did or did not commit this horrible crime. 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:45.760 And Jason, I think it was clear to arresting officers 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.040 this had to have been Stephan. It was in his hand, 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:52.800 he confesses. That's probably why they didn't even swab their hands. 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.600 And then you know, somehow the story gets twisted and 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.120 it's now in Terrell because of what they call a 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:03.120 dying duck. Terrell Owas says, he goes, there were two 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:07.160 lives lost that night, Mine and Jamal Cruz. And I 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.760 feel bad because Jamal Cruz didn't get justice. 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.800 This is a free call from row, an inmate at 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:22.560 maximum security facility. Thank you for using securists. You may 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:23.880 start the conversation now. 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:30.480 I love Heyterrell, thanks for calling in. I know we 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:32.520 have limited time, so this woul get right to it. 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.720 Can you take us back to the awful night of 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.680 this crime and give us your perspective having lived through 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:40.880 this night, Mary yourself. 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:41.440 Well. 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.719 Back at that night and the two dudes approached, you know, 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.319 we're talking to Stuffan about something. The problem wasn't with me, 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:50.920 so we went outside in the front of the club, 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:53.640 Stephond one of my keys, to go get it figures. 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.240 So when we go to the top, the two dings approaching. 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.880 So I see them two dudes. I'm like, oh man, 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:00.800 here we go. So I try to down to go 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.040 with Javiside in the car and I hear shots, so 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:06.439 I just run into my car. Since I run in 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:09.800 my car, pp is like on us, he had the 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:11.800 gun on me. He put your hands on a stading wheel. 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:13.960 I put my hands on standing wheel and he keeps 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.320 on saying it. But he's talking to Stepan, So he 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:19.560 puts his hands on the standing wheel and he's like, yo, 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:21.800 I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I love y'all, love you. The 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.640 police officers hopping up and he's like, oh yo, the 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.080 passions has got the gun. So as soon as he 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.600 opens up the door, Stephan says, it's me. It's all me, 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:32.719 It's all mine. He's like it's shoot. He's like, yeah, 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.000 it's me. So when he took him out, he's already 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:37.600 hearing come from the other cop that had the gun 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.640 on us. He comes, he flashed the cuffs on the wrist, 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.240 my wrists and slings me on the floor. Brings it 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.559 back to the paddy wagon. There's a guy that was shot. 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.120 I didn't know no one was shot. I could see 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.240 blood every this dude's hurt. So this dude shot in 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.920 the chest. And this dude's like doing a show up 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.720 with this guy shot in the chest, asking him this 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.199 sin descend to shin. The guy just looked at me 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:02.680 and put his head down. He didn't say nothing, he 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.160 didn't do nothing. He ain't saying nothing. He just put 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:07.880 his head down. So then they had put me back 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.600 into patty wagon. They bring me back to the station, 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:12.520 and they bring me back the station and you know 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:14.760 they do the mob shot the finger prints, whether they 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.080 got me to a room or two detectives. I asked 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.320 for my lawyer to touch his Angelo Levon was the 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:22.880 lead detect He was the one that questioned me the 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.000 first time in the first night. So he's like, oh, 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:26.720 you know he wants cigarette. You want a cigarett. I'm 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:28.360 like no. He's like, you want a water. I'm like no. 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.240 And he kept on chrying to talk to me, and 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:33.080 I'm like, I want my lawyer. I want my lawyer. 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.480 I want my lawyer. So he leaves the room and 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:38.880 he comes back and he brings back to hold himself. 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.400 So it's one of the times I'm like, yo, I'm 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:44.079 banging on the door. Cap comes, He's like, O what 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:46.560 you're banging. Don'm like, I want my phone call. He's 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.400 like phone call. I'm like yeah. He's like, are you 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.320 get to play? Phone calls? Were up going? I'm like, 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:55.439 where am I going. He's like, You're gonna kill What 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.880 the hell? They bring me in the bus they chance 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.480 put me there and I find out one day the 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.320 raiment and I'm getting charge with murder. I go up 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.680 into the courtroom a split up. Stephan was on the 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:09.480 left side on the right side, so they reach stuff 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:13.480 in his charges seven bolroom possession of firearm, and that 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.840 was that. He goes with Crell Barrow's first degree murder. 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:20.599 I'm like, they charge me with murder. I'm Paul is 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.400 showing everything I love. I did not do it. He 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.080 admitted it on the scene to the cop. That's the 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:28.160 part I don't understand. 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.120 I don't understand it either, because it should have been 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:33.320 over right then and there. 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:36.120 They told me I got to get up the phone. 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.880 Okay, the caller has hung up. 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.440 You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.240 and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.680 and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:09.040 on Apple Podcasts. I have never and may never again 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:14.200 hear of a case in which the actual shooter skates 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:19.720 on the charges after confessing on the scene. Right, I mean, 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.280 at that point, this should be a very short podcast. 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:23.800 That should be the end of it. I mean, this 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:28.840 would be funny, except it's so freaking serious. Right, and 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:31.200 this is the system that we all rely on day 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.280 in and day out. I'd like to believe that we 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.400 have people who are doing the job that they're paid 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.000 to do. But in this case, it's absolutely true. It 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:43.920 failed society, it failed the victim, It failed to rell 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:46.199 and that's what we're here to talk about. And then 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.760 it gets weirder because then you start with the eyewitness. 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:53.000 The only eyewitness is a guy named Gregory's or Obedient, 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.080 and he initially claims he didn't see the shooting and 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.240 then changed his testimony six days before the trial to 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.000 say he saw to Rell do it. We have a 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.760 document signed by the assist Attorney General promising not to 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.960 charge him for perjury should he alter his testimony. That's 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:10.040 maybe just a little bit of a red flag there. 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:14.360 Now get this, Okay, this Gregory's or Obedient guy had 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.160 well let's just call it an extensive criminal history, but 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.800 that might not even be doing a justice. So his 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:25.160 rap sheet went back thirty years. It included convictions not arrest, 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:29.800 convictions for living off the earnings of a prostitute, grand larceny, 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:36.400 dui causing death, cocaine possession, burglary, theft, escape, and that's 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.800 just the beginning. So do we think that after doing 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.040 all these other things he's done, he might be willing 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:45.200 to lie in exchange for a deal? I would say 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:47.560 that's a pretty good likelihood. And then let's get to 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:51.000 Detective Charles Mtrasia. Do you want to take that one, Ojenna. 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.120 He was actually the one who claims that he saw 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:59.560 Jamal Cruz nod when they brought over. Terrell asked ROCITYO, 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:01.760 were you watching Jamal? He said, yeah, I was watching him. 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:03.240 I said, did he not? He said no, he didn't 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:05.280 do anything, So whether he did or did not is 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.559 another story. But again, Jamal Cruz was under the influence 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.320 of alcohol. He had a BAC of point one six', 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.240 two which seems like a lot until we look at rokem. 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.319 Who had to actually HIRE bac as. 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:20.320 Well and then Both Stephan andterrell were wearing WHITE t 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.960 shirts and darker. Pants out of the group That terrell was, 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.920 in he was not the only one with two long black. 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.960 Braids he just. Wasn't it was a. Style if you 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.000 look at the pictures of his friend, group he's not 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.600 the only one with two long black. Braids and so 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.920 out of a group of people wearing white, shirts dark, 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.120 pants two long black, braids you're dying on the. Floor 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.120 And Detective matrasia, says, yeah he nodded when we brought Over. 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.400 TERRELL i, mean how unreal could that? Be and so 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.640 now we're moving INTO gsr. 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.280 TESTING gsr stands for gunshot residue. 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:56.920 Yep and there are three particles of gunshot residue that 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:00.840 they test for when they're looking at. Clothing so When 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:06.280 stephan And terrell were initially, Arrested stephan was pulled out 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.880 of the car and he was slammed against the side 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.240 of the. Car When terrell was, arrested he was pulled 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.400 out of the car and slammed to the, ground so 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:16.960 he actually had some dirt on his white shirt in 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:17.560 a specific. 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:18.680 Area what they. 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:24.360 Initially test was the chest area of Both terrell and Of, 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:28.040 stephan because the theory is if someone is a shooter 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.640 and they hold the gun straight, ahead that the gunshot 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.440 residue will recoil and hit them in the chest. Area 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:36.800 so they talk About, steffan they, go, well we found 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.600 lead On, stepan and they, say, well you also found 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.520 lead On. Terrell So terrell whispers to his, attorney ask 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.920 if they happened to find the lead where my shirt was. 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.480 Dirty they said, Yes so it makes sense that that's 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.880 the only place on his clothing where they found. Lead 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.040 so this is all the information they had in terms 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:59.560 OF gsr at, trial but there is MORE gsr evidence 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.760 to which is part of what we are motioning for 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:04.480 with the new hearing coming. 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.880 Up, well we're on, initials, right we'll go FROM gsr TO, 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:11.640 dna and THE dna report excluded To ralp from having 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.120 held the. Gun so let's touch for a second on 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.680 THE dna expert for the, state who we know was, 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.480 WELL i, mean, most unfortunately quote unquote experts are pro. 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.800 Prosecution in, fact the whole system is pro. Prosecution over 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:30.280 eighty percent of judges are former. Prosecutors so throughout the 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:34.120 process there's a tilt towards, prosecution and the experts that 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:37.560 you're seeing may not be objective at, all and this 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.200 is one of those cases WHERE i think that there's 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.920 a strong argument to that. Effect So, nujena can you 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:43.400 talk about? 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:48.680 That, Yeah Kara lapino gave extremely pro prosecution. Testimony in 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.280 the way that she had presented. It the attorney would 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.360 ask a question the, prosecutor she would respond and, say, 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:55.160 Yes enteroll was. 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.400 Included and then you all of a sudden get to. 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.720 The very very very end and they really quickly sneak 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.880 in a couple of lines Of terrell was excluded And 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.840 Stefan BODDEN'S dna could not be. Excluded so When i'm 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.480 talking to the, juror she, GOES i don't even really 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:15.600 remember him being. Excluded it was so. Confusing there were 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.000 a lot of numbers thrown. Out terrell seemed to be 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:21.440 included in almost every mixture that they're talking. About it's 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.399 absolutely insane and IF i was in the, JURY i 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:25.359 would have thought the same. 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:29.439 Thing the state's witness essentially muddy the waters of what 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:33.400 was a pretty cut and DRY dna report that Excluded 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:38.240 terrell from having ever held the. Gun but then There's Rokeem, 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.040 henley the other guy who got shot that. Night his, 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.760 testimony along with the ballistic evidence known at the time of, 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:49.399 trial make it an actual impossibility That terrell could have 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:49.760 been the. 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:53.520 Shooter he does, testify and WHEN i asked him the 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.719 same question WHEN i met with, him he, said the 0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:01.359 only person standing close To Jamal cruz Was. Boden SO i, 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:06.040 said here's the. Discrepancy did you see who shot? 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:07.040 You he said. 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:13.240 NO i, said, okay, well ballistic evidence proves that the 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:17.760 shot was made from near contact to eighteen inches, away 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:21.880 and you are telling me that the only person standing 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.080 near contact to eighteen inches away From Jamal cruz we 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.080 Was Stefan. Bodden he, said, yes BUT i didn't see 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.560 him shoot the. Gun it's kind of a confusing. Testimony 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:35.439 you don't See steffan do, it but you also claim 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.040 you did not See terrell. Outside you don't know Who terrell. 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.120 Is the only time he Saw terrell was at. Trial 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.680 so if rokeeem had never Seen terrell and the shot 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.600 was made from near contact to eighteen inches, away it 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:50.560 is impossible That terrell was the. 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:55.679 Shooter, nevertheless the incentivized, witness the MUDDY dna, report and 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.439 of course the testimony Of Detective matrasia with too much to, 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:04.879 overcome And terrell was sentenced to two life sentences plus thirty. 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:11.840 Years this is a free call From, roe an inmate 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:16.679 at maximum security. Facility thank you for using. Securists you 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:17.840 may start the conversation. 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:24.639 NOW i Love, okay the investigators in Your, caseterrell it 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.040 Was Detective atrasha And Detective, angelo, Right. 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:31.920 Yeah Detective angelo was though he was the leader of the. 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:36.280 Case matasha was the one that lied About jamal saying 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.240 it was me at the show. Up so WHAT i 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:40.280 was told was this from a lot of, lawyers and 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.520 they all gave me the same. Answer you're in this. 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:47.680 Situation they penned this on. You it's because you asked 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.160 for your. LAWYER i asked my. Way that's not. Right they, said, 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.760 yeah but you didn't tell them what they wanted to, 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.360 hear and they threw it on. You jamal ain't, Here 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:00.280 so you could cut any words in that man's if you, 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.399 won't because you can't put him on a stand and 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.439 cross examine. Him so what the cops. Do they go 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.920 on the stand and they, think, no they, know they 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:13.480 know that the jury look at them as. Superheroes the 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:15.240 jury don't think that the cops are going to go 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:19.120 on the stand and, lie and that's what they. Did 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:23.120 And jamal ain't. Here now this is before this even 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.880 going on With George. Floyd this wasn't like twenty, twelve twenty, 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:31.400 Thirteen so around that time that climate was, like oh, 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:33.560 no the publice ain't gonna lie on this, Kid. 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:40.240 Torell you've gone through this insane. Nightmare everything that could 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.600 go wrong has gone wrong so. Far but then comes 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.080 the moment where the jury goes out and they come back. 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:47.480 In did you think that they were going to find you? 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:49.040 Innocent tell us about that. 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:51.760 Moment they bring me down in the elevator to the court, 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:55.040 room and they can just feel like the tension in 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.840 the courtroom and the jury come in their faces are. 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:04.159 Funny they SAID i was, guilty and then, everybody just my, 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:06.840 family everybody was just like, nah he's in and say 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.119 like they just went. Crazy i'm just sitting there like and. 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:13.520 Shocked i'm in. Shock like everybody's standing. Up i'm the 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.199 only one sitting down and what got me out of 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:23.680 the chance As i've Seen Detective Angelo levon. Laughing SO i, said, yo. 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:25.320 What you think this is? 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:28.560 Funny they just looked at, me AND i looked At 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.600 jamaal's family AND i turned around to. HIM i, SAID 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:34.800 i didn't do this to your. SON i promise. YOU 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:36.639 i promise. YOU i did not do this to your. 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:39.040 SON i did not do. This they didn't get justice 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.280 for your. Son they're lying to, you and they're just 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:45.320 looking at me like in a. Shock everyone's going. Crazy 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:48.399 so they're in that. Commotion i've seen the prosecutor like 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:50.560 hugged the brother like like they wanted The Super, bowl 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:53.280 smacking his back like, yeah, yeah we got. Him And 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:55.560 i'm just looking at him like you're lying into this. 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:57.879 Family like this is a big, lie like you just 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:03.280 knowun an innocent kid, again they just want to take. 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:06.520 CONVICTION i know they know why they do, it because 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:09.879 the prosecutors do know when you see bogus, charges but 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:12.520