1 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: We initially released Terrell Barrows's story on June twenty fourth, 2 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: twenty twenty based on newly discovered evidence and witnesses. His 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: conviction was vacated and he was released on bail on 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: August fifteenth, twenty twenty three, right into the arms of 5 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: his mother. I remember getting the call from his advocate, 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: Nurjana Hindi, one of the former students with Georgetown's making 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: an xana ree class, and I think I I think 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: I almost passed out. Honestly, I was so excited and 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: I'm so happy to hear the good news, and we 10 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,959 Speaker 1: hope that now Rhode Island will do the right thing 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: and dismiss all the charges. Here's our original coverage from 12 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: when Terrell was still on the inside. August twenty six, 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: twenty twelve, started off as a relatively normal night. Terrell 14 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: Barrows was at Monet Lounge in Providence, Rhode Island, with 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: Stephan Boden and some other friends. 16 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: In disagreement ensued between Stephan and two other clubgoers, Rokeem 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: Henley and Jamal Cruz, but the tension didn't boil over 18 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 2: until later in the parking lot. See Stefanboden wanted his 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 2: cigarettes and he would ask Torell for his car keys 20 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 2: because that's where they were, So he left ahead of 21 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 2: the group, and as fate would have it, who was 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: parked right next to Terrell, but Jamal and Rokeem, who 23 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: were now ominously approaching. Terrell and the rest of his friends, though, 24 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: were just arriving on the scene and trying to avoid 25 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 2: the drama, So Terrell made for the driver's side door, 26 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 2: and then gunshots. Terrell quickly ducked into the driver's seat 27 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: and Stephan bod jumped into the passenger side. Seconds later, 28 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 2: the cops were at the car and they saw Stepan 29 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: trying to hide the gun. Stepan confessed on the spot 30 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: to the shooting as both. 31 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: Men were cuffed. 32 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 2: An intoxicated and mortally wounded Jamal Cruz had put his 33 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: head down when shown Terrell a far cry from an identification, 34 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: but that didn't stop a detective from testifying a trial 35 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: about a quote unquote dying declaration. The state even ignored 36 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 2: Stephan Boden's immediate and uncoerced confession, forging blindly ahead to 37 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 2: ultimately send Torell to prison, where he remains to this day, 38 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: serving two consecutive life sentences plus thirty years. This is 39 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Plomm. Wrongful Conviction has always given 40 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: voice to innocent people in prison, and now we're expanding 41 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 2: that voice to you. Call us at eight three three 42 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: two oh seven four six sixty six and tell us 43 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 2: how these stories make you feel and what you've done 44 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 2: to help the cause, even if it's something as simple 45 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: as telling a friend or sharing on social media, and 46 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: you might just hear yourself in a future episode. Call 47 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: us A three three two oh seven four six sixty six. 48 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,119 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. Today we're 49 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: going to be discussing the really troubling case of Terrell Barrows, 50 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: who was wrongfully convicted of a shooting in which one 51 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 2: person was killed and another was badly injured. And with 52 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 2: us today we have a student at Georgetown who's been 53 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 2: doing incredible work investigating his case under the leadership of 54 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 2: my friend, Professor Mark Howard. So Nurgenna Hendy, welcome to 55 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: the show. 56 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 3: Thank you, Jason. 57 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: The Georgetown class that Nurgenna is a student in is 58 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: taught by Mark Howard and a name that you'll recognize 59 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: from being on our show more than once. Marty Tankleff, 60 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 2: and of course this class was directly responsible for the 61 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: exoneration of Valentino Dixon. If you haven't heard his episode, 62 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: please go back and listen to it. It's extraordinary. So 63 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 2: we hope to be hearing from Terrell Barrows very soon. 64 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 2: Of course, in this COVID time that we're in, it's 65 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 2: very hard to get to the phones in prison, but 66 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 2: we will be discussing his case and hopefully hearing from 67 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: him as the podcast progresses. So let's go back to 68 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 2: twenty twelve. 69 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 4: Back in August of twenty twelve, Terrell Barrows and a 70 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 4: group of friends headed out to Monet Lounge in Providence, 71 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,119 Speaker 4: Rhode Island. While they're in the club, there's some sort 72 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 4: of verbal altercation between Terrell's group and a couple of 73 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 4: members of another group, including the two that got shot. 74 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 4: One was Rokeem Henley, who got shot in the leg 75 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 4: and who I spoke with a couple of times over 76 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 4: the past few months, and then Jamal Cruz who ended 77 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 4: up dying that night. But Terrell wasn't a part of 78 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 4: that verbal altercation. It was stuff in Boden who was 79 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 4: and so a name was called Someone's hat got tapped 80 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 4: off their head and then no one really stays. There's 81 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 4: not a physical altercation at all. Later on in the night, 82 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 4: Stephan Bowden asked Terrell. He goes, hey, let me get 83 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 4: the tack to go get your car keys. So as 84 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:10,239 Speaker 4: he's heading over, there is another car that is parked 85 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 4: bumper to bumper with Terrell's car, and it just happens 86 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 4: to be the car of Jamal Cruz. 87 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 3: Stephen thought that. 88 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 4: Jamal and roe Keem were coming to cause problems, when 89 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 4: in reality they were just walking to their car. Stefan 90 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 4: grabs the gun and you know, witnesses say he told 91 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 4: them don't come any closer. And at this point Terrell 92 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,799 Speaker 4: starts heading over to his car with his group of friends. 93 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 4: Terrell is about ten to fifteen feet away from Stefan 94 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 4: Bowden and Jamal Cruz, which is where all eyewitnesses placed 95 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 4: him as well, and he's actually walking to get to 96 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 4: the other side of his car to hop in the 97 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 4: driver's seat because he knows that there's trouble about to 98 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 4: happen he doesn't want to be a part of it. 99 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 4: He hears two gun shots, he jumps into the driver's 100 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 4: seat and almost immediately Stefan jumps into the passat and 101 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 4: the cops are there to arrest them. 102 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: And there's more to this too, because when Stephan jumped 103 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: into the passenger seat, he had it sort of a 104 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 2: moment of self awareness right where he started apologizing to 105 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: Terrell for sort of involving him in this. 106 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. 107 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 4: At this point, the arresting officers are on either side 108 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 4: and the gun is still with Stephan Bowden. He is 109 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 4: caught concealing the gun in the passenger side door, and 110 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 4: Stefan actually confesses on the scene. He said it's me, 111 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 4: It's all me, It's all mine. Yet they are both arrested, 112 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 4: taken to a paddy wagon, and then there's a show 113 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 4: up that is done. Now they spoke with a couple 114 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 4: of jury members who told me this is what caused 115 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 4: us to believe Terrell is guilty. So in the show ups, 116 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 4: they bring Stephan over to Jamal, who was in critical 117 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 4: condition on the floor, extremely intoxicated, and they say, is 118 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,239 Speaker 4: this the man that shot you? And Jamal looks away. 119 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 4: Apparently when they bring over Terrell, Detective Matrasia says, Jamal. 120 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 2: Nods, that's what they say he did. It doesn't matter 121 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 2: if he nodded or not. He was in no position 122 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 2: to make any identification of anyone, and we still don't 123 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: know if he did. It's not like he stuck his 124 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 2: finger out and went, yeah, that's the guy who shot me. 125 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 2: Then he's out right, that's not what happened. 126 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 4: They actually did not even do a show up identification 127 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 4: with the other guy, Rokeim Henley, who was shot and 128 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 4: he was not in critical condition. 129 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: They also didn't bother to swab the hands of either 130 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 2: Terrell or Stephan, right, that would be so critical to 131 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 2: figuring out who did or did not commit this horrible crime. 132 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 4: And Jason, I think it was clear to arresting officers 133 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 4: this had to have been Stephan. It was in his hand, 134 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 4: he confesses. That's probably why they didn't even swab their hands. 135 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 4: And then you know, somehow the story gets twisted and 136 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 4: it's now in Terrell because of what they call a 137 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 4: dying duck. Terrell Owas says, he goes, there were two 138 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 4: lives lost that night, Mine and Jamal Cruz. And I 139 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 4: feel bad because Jamal Cruz didn't get justice. 140 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 5: This is a free call from row, an inmate at 141 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 5: maximum security facility. Thank you for using securists. You may 142 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 5: start the conversation now. 143 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 2: I love Heyterrell, thanks for calling in. I know we 144 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: have limited time, so this woul get right to it. 145 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 2: Can you take us back to the awful night of 146 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 2: this crime and give us your perspective having lived through 147 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 2: this night, Mary yourself. 148 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 5: Well. 149 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 6: Back at that night and the two dudes approached, you know, 150 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 6: we're talking to Stuffan about something. The problem wasn't with me, 151 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 6: so we went outside in the front of the club, 152 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 6: Stephond one of my keys, to go get it figures. 153 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 6: So when we go to the top, the two dings approaching. 154 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 6: So I see them two dudes. I'm like, oh man, 155 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 6: here we go. So I try to down to go 156 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 6: with Javiside in the car and I hear shots, so 157 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 6: I just run into my car. Since I run in 158 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 6: my car, pp is like on us, he had the 159 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 6: gun on me. He put your hands on a stading wheel. 160 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 6: I put my hands on standing wheel and he keeps 161 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 6: on saying it. But he's talking to Stepan, So he 162 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 6: puts his hands on the standing wheel and he's like, yo, 163 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 6: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I love y'all, love you. The 164 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 6: police officers hopping up and he's like, oh yo, the 165 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 6: passions has got the gun. So as soon as he 166 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 6: opens up the door, Stephan says, it's me. It's all me, 167 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 6: It's all mine. He's like it's shoot. He's like, yeah, 168 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 6: it's me. So when he took him out, he's already 169 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 6: hearing come from the other cop that had the gun 170 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 6: on us. He comes, he flashed the cuffs on the wrist, 171 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 6: my wrists and slings me on the floor. Brings it 172 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 6: back to the paddy wagon. There's a guy that was shot. 173 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 6: I didn't know no one was shot. I could see 174 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 6: blood every this dude's hurt. So this dude shot in 175 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 6: the chest. And this dude's like doing a show up 176 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 6: with this guy shot in the chest, asking him this 177 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 6: sin descend to shin. The guy just looked at me 178 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 6: and put his head down. He didn't say nothing, he 179 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 6: didn't do nothing. He ain't saying nothing. He just put 180 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 6: his head down. So then they had put me back 181 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 6: into patty wagon. They bring me back to the station, 182 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 6: and they bring me back the station and you know 183 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 6: they do the mob shot the finger prints, whether they 184 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 6: got me to a room or two detectives. I asked 185 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 6: for my lawyer to touch his Angelo Levon was the 186 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 6: lead detect He was the one that questioned me the 187 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 6: first time in the first night. So he's like, oh, 188 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 6: you know he wants cigarette. You want a cigarett. I'm 189 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 6: like no. He's like, you want a water. I'm like no. 190 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 6: And he kept on chrying to talk to me, and 191 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 6: I'm like, I want my lawyer. I want my lawyer. 192 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 6: I want my lawyer. So he leaves the room and 193 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 6: he comes back and he brings back to hold himself. 194 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 6: So it's one of the times I'm like, yo, I'm 195 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 6: banging on the door. Cap comes, He's like, O what 196 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 6: you're banging. Don'm like, I want my phone call. He's 197 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 6: like phone call. I'm like yeah. He's like, are you 198 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 6: get to play? Phone calls? Were up going? I'm like, 199 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 6: where am I going. He's like, You're gonna kill What 200 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 6: the hell? They bring me in the bus they chance 201 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 6: put me there and I find out one day the 202 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 6: raiment and I'm getting charge with murder. I go up 203 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 6: into the courtroom a split up. Stephan was on the 204 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 6: left side on the right side, so they reach stuff 205 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 6: in his charges seven bolroom possession of firearm, and that 206 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 6: was that. He goes with Crell Barrow's first degree murder. 207 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,599 Speaker 6: I'm like, they charge me with murder. I'm Paul is 208 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 6: showing everything I love. I did not do it. He 209 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 6: admitted it on the scene to the cop. That's the 210 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 6: part I don't understand. 211 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: I don't understand it either, because it should have been 212 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 2: over right then and there. 213 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 6: They told me I got to get up the phone. 214 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 5: Okay, the caller has hung up. 215 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 2: You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this 216 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 2: and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early 217 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 2: and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus 218 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 2: on Apple Podcasts. I have never and may never again 219 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 2: hear of a case in which the actual shooter skates 220 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: on the charges after confessing on the scene. Right, I mean, 221 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: at that point, this should be a very short podcast. 222 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 2: That should be the end of it. I mean, this 223 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 2: would be funny, except it's so freaking serious. Right, and 224 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 2: this is the system that we all rely on day 225 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 2: in and day out. I'd like to believe that we 226 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 2: have people who are doing the job that they're paid 227 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 2: to do. But in this case, it's absolutely true. It 228 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: failed society, it failed the victim, It failed to rell 229 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 2: and that's what we're here to talk about. And then 230 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 2: it gets weirder because then you start with the eyewitness. 231 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 2: The only eyewitness is a guy named Gregory's or Obedient, 232 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 2: and he initially claims he didn't see the shooting and 233 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 2: then changed his testimony six days before the trial to 234 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 2: say he saw to Rell do it. We have a 235 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 2: document signed by the assist Attorney General promising not to 236 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 2: charge him for perjury should he alter his testimony. That's 237 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 2: maybe just a little bit of a red flag there. 238 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: Now get this, Okay, this Gregory's or Obedient guy had 239 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 2: well let's just call it an extensive criminal history, but 240 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 2: that might not even be doing a justice. So his 241 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 2: rap sheet went back thirty years. It included convictions not arrest, 242 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 2: convictions for living off the earnings of a prostitute, grand larceny, 243 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 2: dui causing death, cocaine possession, burglary, theft, escape, and that's 244 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 2: just the beginning. So do we think that after doing 245 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 2: all these other things he's done, he might be willing 246 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: to lie in exchange for a deal? I would say 247 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 2: that's a pretty good likelihood. And then let's get to 248 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: Detective Charles Mtrasia. Do you want to take that one, Ojenna. 249 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 4: He was actually the one who claims that he saw 250 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 4: Jamal Cruz nod when they brought over. Terrell asked ROCITYO, 251 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 4: were you watching Jamal? He said, yeah, I was watching him. 252 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 4: I said, did he not? He said no, he didn't 253 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 4: do anything, So whether he did or did not is 254 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 4: another story. But again, Jamal Cruz was under the influence 255 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 4: of alcohol. He had a BAC of point one six', 256 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 4: two which seems like a lot until we look at rokem. 257 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 3: Who had to actually HIRE bac as. 258 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 4: Well and then Both Stephan andterrell were wearing WHITE t 259 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 4: shirts and darker. Pants out of the group That terrell was, 260 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 4: in he was not the only one with two long black. 261 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 4: Braids he just. Wasn't it was a. Style if you 262 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 4: look at the pictures of his friend, group he's not 263 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 4: the only one with two long black. Braids and so 264 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 4: out of a group of people wearing white, shirts dark, 265 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 4: pants two long black, braids you're dying on the. Floor 266 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 4: And Detective matrasia, says, yeah he nodded when we brought Over. 267 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 4: TERRELL i, mean how unreal could that? Be and so 268 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 4: now we're moving INTO gsr. 269 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 2: TESTING gsr stands for gunshot residue. 270 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 4: Yep and there are three particles of gunshot residue that 271 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 4: they test for when they're looking at. Clothing so When 272 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 4: stephan And terrell were initially, Arrested stephan was pulled out 273 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 4: of the car and he was slammed against the side 274 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 4: of the. Car When terrell was, arrested he was pulled 275 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 4: out of the car and slammed to the, ground so 276 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 4: he actually had some dirt on his white shirt in 277 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 4: a specific. 278 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 3: Area what they. 279 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 4: Initially test was the chest area of Both terrell and Of, 280 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 4: stephan because the theory is if someone is a shooter 281 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 4: and they hold the gun straight, ahead that the gunshot 282 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 4: residue will recoil and hit them in the chest. Area 283 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 4: so they talk About, steffan they, go, well we found 284 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 4: lead On, stepan and they, say, well you also found 285 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 4: lead On. Terrell So terrell whispers to his, attorney ask 286 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 4: if they happened to find the lead where my shirt was. 287 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 4: Dirty they said, Yes so it makes sense that that's 288 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 4: the only place on his clothing where they found. Lead 289 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 4: so this is all the information they had in terms 290 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 4: OF gsr at, trial but there is MORE gsr evidence 291 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 4: to which is part of what we are motioning for 292 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 4: with the new hearing coming. 293 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: Up, well we're on, initials, right we'll go FROM gsr TO, 294 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: dna and THE dna report excluded To ralp from having 295 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 2: held the. Gun so let's touch for a second on 296 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: THE dna expert for the, state who we know was, 297 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 2: WELL i, mean, most unfortunately quote unquote experts are pro. 298 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 2: Prosecution in, fact the whole system is pro. Prosecution over 299 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 2: eighty percent of judges are former. Prosecutors so throughout the 300 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 2: process there's a tilt towards, prosecution and the experts that 301 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 2: you're seeing may not be objective at, all and this 302 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 2: is one of those cases WHERE i think that there's 303 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: a strong argument to that. Effect So, nujena can you 304 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 2: talk about? 305 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 4: That, Yeah Kara lapino gave extremely pro prosecution. Testimony in 306 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 4: the way that she had presented. It the attorney would 307 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 4: ask a question the, prosecutor she would respond and, say, 308 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 4: Yes enteroll was. 309 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 3: Included and then you all of a sudden get to. 310 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 4: The very very very end and they really quickly sneak 311 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 4: in a couple of lines Of terrell was excluded And 312 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 4: Stefan BODDEN'S dna could not be. Excluded so When i'm 313 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 4: talking to the, juror she, GOES i don't even really 314 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 4: remember him being. Excluded it was so. Confusing there were 315 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 4: a lot of numbers thrown. Out terrell seemed to be 316 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 4: included in almost every mixture that they're talking. About it's 317 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 4: absolutely insane and IF i was in the, JURY i 318 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 4: would have thought the same. 319 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 2: Thing the state's witness essentially muddy the waters of what 320 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 2: was a pretty cut and DRY dna report that Excluded 321 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 2: terrell from having ever held the. Gun but then There's Rokeem, 322 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 2: henley the other guy who got shot that. Night his, 323 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 2: testimony along with the ballistic evidence known at the time of, 324 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 2: trial make it an actual impossibility That terrell could have 325 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 2: been the. 326 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 4: Shooter he does, testify and WHEN i asked him the 327 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,719 Speaker 4: same question WHEN i met with, him he, said the 328 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 4: only person standing close To Jamal cruz Was. Boden SO i, 329 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 4: said here's the. Discrepancy did you see who shot? 330 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 3: You he said. 331 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 4: NO i, said, okay, well ballistic evidence proves that the 332 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 4: shot was made from near contact to eighteen inches, away 333 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 4: and you are telling me that the only person standing 334 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 4: near contact to eighteen inches away From Jamal cruz we 335 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 4: Was Stefan. Bodden he, said, yes BUT i didn't see 336 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 4: him shoot the. Gun it's kind of a confusing. Testimony 337 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 4: you don't See steffan do, it but you also claim 338 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 4: you did not See terrell. Outside you don't know Who terrell. 339 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 4: Is the only time he Saw terrell was at. Trial 340 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 4: so if rokeeem had never Seen terrell and the shot 341 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 4: was made from near contact to eighteen inches, away it 342 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 4: is impossible That terrell was the. 343 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 2: Shooter, nevertheless the incentivized, witness the MUDDY dna, report and 344 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 2: of course the testimony Of Detective matrasia with too much to, 345 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 2: overcome And terrell was sentenced to two life sentences plus thirty. 346 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 5: Years this is a free call From, roe an inmate 347 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 5: at maximum security. Facility thank you for using. Securists you 348 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 5: may start the conversation. 349 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 2: NOW i Love, okay the investigators in Your, caseterrell it 350 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 2: Was Detective atrasha And Detective, angelo, Right. 351 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 6: Yeah Detective angelo was though he was the leader of the. 352 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 6: Case matasha was the one that lied About jamal saying 353 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 6: it was me at the show. Up so WHAT i 354 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 6: was told was this from a lot of, lawyers and 355 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 6: they all gave me the same. Answer you're in this. 356 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 6: Situation they penned this on. You it's because you asked 357 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 6: for your. LAWYER i asked my. Way that's not. Right they, said, 358 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 6: yeah but you didn't tell them what they wanted to, 359 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 6: hear and they threw it on. You jamal ain't, Here 360 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 6: so you could cut any words in that man's if you, 361 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 6: won't because you can't put him on a stand and 362 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 6: cross examine. Him so what the cops. Do they go 363 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 6: on the stand and they, think, no they, know they 364 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 6: know that the jury look at them as. Superheroes the 365 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 6: jury don't think that the cops are going to go 366 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 6: on the stand and, lie and that's what they. Did 367 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 6: And jamal ain't. Here now this is before this even 368 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 6: going on With George. Floyd this wasn't like twenty, twelve twenty, 369 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 6: Thirteen so around that time that climate was, like oh, 370 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 6: no the publice ain't gonna lie on this, Kid. 371 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 2: Torell you've gone through this insane. Nightmare everything that could 372 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 2: go wrong has gone wrong so. Far but then comes 373 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 2: the moment where the jury goes out and they come back. 374 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 2: In did you think that they were going to find you? 375 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 2: Innocent tell us about that. 376 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 6: Moment they bring me down in the elevator to the court, 377 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 6: room and they can just feel like the tension in 378 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 6: the courtroom and the jury come in their faces are. 379 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 6: Funny they SAID i was, guilty and then, everybody just my, 380 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 6: family everybody was just like, nah he's in and say 381 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 6: like they just went. Crazy i'm just sitting there like and. 382 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 6: Shocked i'm in. Shock like everybody's standing. Up i'm the 383 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 6: only one sitting down and what got me out of 384 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 6: the chance As i've Seen Detective Angelo levon. Laughing SO i, said, yo. 385 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 2: What you think this is? 386 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 6: Funny they just looked at, me AND i looked At 387 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 6: jamaal's family AND i turned around to. HIM i, SAID 388 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 6: i didn't do this to your. SON i promise. YOU 389 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 6: i promise. YOU i did not do this to your. 390 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 6: SON i did not do. This they didn't get justice 391 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 6: for your. Son they're lying to, you and they're just 392 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 6: looking at me like in a. Shock everyone's going. Crazy 393 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 6: so they're in that. Commotion i've seen the prosecutor like 394 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 6: hugged the brother like like they wanted The Super, bowl 395 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 6: smacking his back like, yeah, yeah we got. Him And 396 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 6: i'm just looking at him like you're lying into this. 397 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 6: Family like this is a big, lie like you just 398 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 6: knowun an innocent kid, again they just want to take. 399 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 6: CONVICTION i know they know why they do, it because 400 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 6: the prosecutors do know when you see bogus, charges but 401 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 6: you still go forward with it because you want a. 402 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 6: Conviction they don't care. 403 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 2: Yet, yeah they're thinking about their, future their, aspirations the 404 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 2: way they can be, successful and they know that's by 405 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 2: having a good conviction rate by and. Large but it's 406 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 2: like it's some sort of six scoreboard and there are 407 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 2: decent prosecutors out. There there's some really good ones, too 408 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 2: but the ones that are willing to ignore evidence of 409 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 2: innocence and prosecute clearly bogus cases like yours just to 410 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 2: get another notch on their, belt just to move up 411 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 2: the ladder Are they're a disgrace and they're actually a 412 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 2: menace to public. 413 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 6: Safety they use on that for the stepson to. Talk 414 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 6: they want off family to make this family got. Them, 415 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 6: yeah they just look at money sign like me, cattle. 416 00:22:59,400 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 5: You. 417 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 2: Know and as if this case couldn't get worse or, 418 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 2: Weirder Stephan boden put out a. SONG i guess he 419 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 2: was trying to rid himself of the guilt of skating 420 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 2: on the murder rap and allowing his friend to rotten prison, right. 421 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 3: He wrote this song Called letter To. 422 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 4: Terrell it's really more of a guilt, trip saying things 423 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 4: like we should have never went out to the club that. 424 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 4: Night it's painful that you're in that. Cell it's painful 425 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 4: on my, mother. 426 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 2: And i'm sorry that you win that. Gym it's painful 427 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 2: on my. 428 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 4: Mother BUT i think about. 429 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 2: You every day in. Life how is he out In 430 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 2: terrell's in? 431 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 4: Prison Stephan boden is now. Dead he was shot in 432 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 4: a car shooting in twenty. 433 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 2: Seventeen it's too. MUCH i, mean the good news is 434 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 2: he's the only good news HERE i guess is that 435 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 2: he's got a fantastic. Team now we've got some. Momentum 436 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 2: can you talk about that new, evidence talk about his 437 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 2: new lawyer and what lays. 438 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 4: Ahead the original theory was if you hold a gun 439 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 4: straight out in front of, you THE gsr or gunshot 440 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 4: residue will fly back and hit the chest. Area AS 441 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 4: i mentioned. Before, However Bob, Kando terrell's newer, attorney went 442 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 4: ahead and looked at the trajectory of the bullets and 443 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 4: he had a couple of questions about where the shot 444 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 4: was actually made. From how is it possible That rokim 445 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 4: didn't see the? Shooter how is it possible that If 446 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 4: jamal gave a dying, declaration then he gave it to 447 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 4: the wrong. Person and how is it possible that If 448 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 4: stefan's the real, shooter we find only lead on. Him 449 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 4: where are the other particles OF? Gsr So Bob kando 450 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 4: goes ahead and puts in a request for other areas 451 00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:00,719 Speaker 4: Of boden's clothing to be, analyzed including his cross and belt. 452 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 4: Area lo and, behold they come back with more particles OF, 453 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 4: gsr which ends up being huge. News putting together trajectory 454 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 4: of the. Bullets putting TOGETHER, Gsr Stefan boden actually took 455 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 4: the shots from right next to his. Belt he actually 456 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 4: did not hold the gun straight. Ahead so if that 457 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 4: were to, happen someone who's extremely intoxicated wouldn't be able 458 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 4: to see the. 459 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 3: Gun and WHEN i actually ended. 460 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 4: Up speaking To rakim, LATER i, said, well you, know 461 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 4: the new evidence really says that the gun was next to. 462 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 4: Him he, responds he, goes, oh that might explain. It 463 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 4: so that might explain Why rakem didn't see That stephan shot, 464 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 4: Him so that's very. Exciting and with this new, evidence 465 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 4: with the new affidavit that we have, written new eyewitnesses 466 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 4: who are coming, forward family members Of Stephan boden who 467 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 4: are coming forward and, SAYING i Know stefan did. It 468 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 4: he told me multiple. Times we are taking all of 469 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 4: this And bob is pushing for a hearing In september 470 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 4: with emotion for new, trial and we're hoping that we 471 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 4: can Get terrell home very. 472 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,719 Speaker 2: Soon and that leads to what happens now and what 473 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 2: can people? 474 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 4: DO a mini documentary came out About Terrell. 475 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 3: Barrows please check it. Out the title of it is on. 476 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 4: YouTube it's Called making An exonery twenty twenty dash The 477 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 4: story Of Terrell. Barrows and then that you'll really see 478 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 4: everything that we outlined throughout this entire, podcast as well 479 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 4: as getting to hear from people who heard From steffan 480 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 4: himself that he did. It and then there's also a 481 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 4: change dot org petition that sends a letter to the, 482 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 4: governor who has been pretty vocal, about you, know THE 483 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 4: blm movement and everything that's happening right, now so we're 484 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 4: hoping that she'll also hop onto this change dot org 485 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 4: slash Free. Terrellbarrow so it's changed dot org slash Free Terrell. 486 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 2: Barrows our wonderful producers have put the link in the 487 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 2: podcast description so you can just scroll down on whatever 488 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 2: platform you're listening. To please share it on social. Media 489 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 2: tell people listen to the, episode watch the video content 490 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 2: that's out. There we can win. This so now this 491 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 2: is the part WHERE i get to thank our guests 492 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 2: in this, case Or Jenna, handy thank you for being, 493 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 2: here and of Course Terrell, Barrows we're here for. You 494 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 2: i'm going to fight for, you and thank you as 495 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 2: well for sharing your thoughts with. Us Now i'm going 496 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 2: to turn off my, microphone pick back in my chair 497 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 2: and Let Doorgena handy share her final thoughts in the 498 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 2: segment we call closing. 499 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 3: Arguments terrelle is an amazing. 500 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 4: MAN i could go on and on about who he 501 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 4: is as a, person the character that he, has and 502 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 4: the change that he will make when he is brought. 503 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 4: Home and it has been such an honor to be 504 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 4: in his, life to be in his mother's, life to 505 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 4: be in his attorney's. Life And i'm hoping that we 506 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 4: can Prove terrell's inn his and bring him home to his, 507 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 4: mom to his, family and to society where he belongs 508 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 4: and WHERE i am one thousand percent sure that he 509 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 4: was going to make a. Difference this is not the 510 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 4: end and it's definitely not the. Beginning this story With 511 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 4: terrell has happened many times in the past and unfortunately 512 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 4: will continue to happen unless people like, me like You, 513 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 4: jason come together and Bring terrell. 514 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 2: Home and now over to You terrell, again thank you 515 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,479 Speaker 2: for being, here and thank you for your courage and your. 516 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 2: Spirit hang in. There we're all out here rooting for 517 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 2: you and more importantly fighting for. You so now over 518 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 2: to you for closing. 519 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 6: ARGUMENTS i just want to thank everybody for, listening AND 520 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 6: i want to start OFF i think And jason for 521 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 6: give me this platform to explain my. Situations we need 522 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 6: people Like jason Mob, Power Madi tank with The georgetown 523 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 6: students And Jean I'm Leo. Caroline they are fighting so 524 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 6: hard for. Me my, Attorney Robert, kando just want to 525 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 6: thank him for being there for me and really really 526 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 6: fighting for me because he Knows i'm really. Innocent you. 527 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 6: KNOW i also got to think the two main women 528 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 6: in my, wife my mother And Ann. Lisia if it 529 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 6: wasn't for An lisa reaching out to my out with, 530 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 6: that none of this right, now this, interview the, documentary the, 531 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 6: petition none of this would be going on right now 532 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 6: because it wasn't for. HER i want to thank my 533 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 6: mother for always being there for. Me her strength is 534 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 6: WHERE i get it. From but right, Here i'm innocent 535 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 6: and she told me to, fight, fight fight UNTIL i 536 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 6: get my. Freedom but the post conviction aren't coming, up 537 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 6: And i'm fighting for a new child And i'm fighting for. 538 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 6: FREEDOM i need your. HELP i just need as much 539 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 6: people to sign this. 540 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 5: Petition you have one man at. 541 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 6: Left its spread the word. Allies there's a lot of 542 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 6: us in here that are, voiceless AND i am blessed 543 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 6: to have the. FAMILY i have to have this voice 544 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 6: to speak because it's given me a platform to speak 545 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 6: for the voiceless in this. PRISON i feel like people 546 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 6: are playing in my life for a. REASON i know 547 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 6: That i'm gonna get out of jail AND i gotta 548 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 6: fight on the front line for people that are innocent 549 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 6: in present because it has to. Stop these props need 550 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 6: to be held a. Poundable they're not just killing us 551 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 6: in the. Streets they're killing us in these courts and 552 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 6: there's no consequences when they do. It they need to be. 553 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 6: Accomplished too many people in the prison, system what their 554 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 6: life took in the thought they didn't do it has to. 555 00:30:53,280 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 2: Stop don't forget to give us a fantastic. Review wherever 556 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 2: you get your, podcasts it really. Helps And i'm a 557 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 2: proud donor to The Innocence project AND i really hope 558 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 2: you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and 559 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 2: helping to prevent future wrongful. Convictions go To Innocence project 560 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 2: dot org to learn how to donate and get. Involved 561 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: i'd like to thank our production, Team Connor hall And Kevin. 562 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 2: Wartis the music in the show is by three TIME 563 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 2: oscar nominated Composer Jay. Ralph be sure to follow us 564 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 2: On instagram At Wrongful conviction and On facebook At Wrongful Conviction. 565 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 2: Podcast Wrongful conviction With Jason flamm is a production Of 566 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 2: lava For Good podcasts and association With Signal Company number 567 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 2: one