1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 2: This is Master's in Business with Barry Ridholds on Bloomberg Radio. 3 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: What can I say about this week's guest, Toto Wolf, 4 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: principal CEO of Mercedes Formula one race team. What an 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: incredible career from a winning racer to an investor and 6 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: venture capitalist, to a person who just kind of became 7 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: a principal at Williams and then eventually after that team 8 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: surprisingly began to win, got recruited over to Mercedes, where 9 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: he is put together a fantastic track record. His rookie 10 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: year at Mercedes was the same rookie year for Lewis Hamilton. 11 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: Obviously they've had an amazing run together. I don't know 12 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: what else I could say about the conversation. If you're 13 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: a fan of Formula one racing, if you're a fan 14 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: of managing a team of people, if you're interested in 15 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: how to ring out every last millisecond of performance, you're 16 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: going to find this conversation absolutely fascinating. I know I did, 17 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: with no further ado my discussion with Mercedes F One's 18 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 1: team principal, Total Wolf. I don't want to waste time 19 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: singing your accolades let's just jump right into this undergraduate 20 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: Vienna University of Economics and Business. How did you end 21 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: up in racing? It sounds like you were going into finance. 22 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 2: Dropout, dropout. Yeah, so yeah, I was born and raised 23 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 2: in Vienna and went to the Vienna US University of Economics, 24 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: but actually raced in junior formulas at the time and 25 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: wanted to be a race driver. And when that ended, 26 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: abruptly ran out of money and we had a very 27 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 2: bad spell of accidents Informala WAE, I lost a sponsor. 28 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: I decided I'm going to quit both. I'm gonna quit 29 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 2: UNI and I'm going to quit racing and launch myself 30 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 2: into working. 31 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: And you were fairly successful as a race so you 32 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: began in Austrian Formula Ford. You won the twenty four 33 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: hours of Bahrain, which is an unusually any twenty four 34 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: hour races difficult. How do you what's the key to 35 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: winning twenty four hours of driving? 36 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: Yeah? So the twenty four hour race was in Dubai 37 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 2: and was in so far relatively important because it was 38 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 2: the first big race of twenty four hours in the 39 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: Middle East. So you have three drivers of four and 40 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: you're having two hour stints and it's and it's challenging 41 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 2: from mentally and from the human body because sometimes you 42 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: have to get up at two o'clock and drive from 43 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 2: two to four in the night. But it was all 44 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 2: part of my racing and I loved every minute. 45 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: So you go from racing to saying, all right, I 46 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,119 Speaker 1: don't have a career in racing, I'm gonna go into finance. 47 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: And you found March fifteenth in nineteen ninety eight. Tell 48 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: us a little bit about what sort of investing you 49 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: were doing in the late nine Yeah. 50 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 2: So the first company was called March fifteen and then 51 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: March sixteen, and there is not a lot of meaning 52 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: behind it. It was just the data incorporated it and that 53 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 2: felt the easiest. So back in the day you wouldn't 54 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: think a lot about brand. And I went to the 55 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: US for a couple of months and realized that internet 56 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 2: companies were coming up here Yahoo, America Online and Netscape 57 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: and went back to Austria and figured out who is 58 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: doing that in Austria and stumbled up upon a few 59 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: websites and met these people, sometimes not even companies. One 60 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: was a seventeen year old board that round the largest 61 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: free SMS platform online and set up structures around it. 62 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 2: It was equity for consulting. So I didn't get any 63 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: didn't buy anything because I didn't have the money, and 64 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 2: it was just a good timing. In ninety nine and 65 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 2: two thousand we started to ipo companies and it became 66 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: a proper meture capital company from from consulting. 67 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: Actually, and let's first forward a little bit to two 68 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: thousand and nine. You invest in the Williams F one 69 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: team and eventually in twenty twelve you become their executive director. 70 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: How is that transition? How do you go from being 71 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: a venture investor running a team. 72 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, the ten years in between was going from pretty 73 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: much tech investor into motor racing. I bought a touring 74 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: car team. We were doing FORMA three engines for Mercedes. 75 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 2: Was quite an extensive program about our raality team as well, 76 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: and so in these ten years I kind of merged 77 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 2: my passion for the spot with the investment world. And 78 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 2: as you say, Williams was the first formal one team 79 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: I got myself into, had a minority stake, and then 80 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 2: I run it in twenty twelve with Frank Williams because 81 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 2: the CEO decided to depart. And this is where basically 82 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: my Formula one active Formula one story started. 83 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: So Williams at the time wasn't exactly front of the grid. 84 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: You help them win a big race and suddenly you're 85 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: now competing with much better known, better funded teams. How 86 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: are you competitive with You know, you're fighting an uphill 87 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: battle when you're at Williams. 88 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 2: Energy only just energy. Yeah, we didn't have the infrastructure, 89 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 2: not the capability. The drivers work were not on the 90 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: level of Louise Hamilton and others. It was the energy 91 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 2: in the team. People gave it all. They had hard 92 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,799 Speaker 2: and soul and I think we moved, We moved barriers, 93 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 2: we moved, We fought against adversity and we want to 94 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 2: race just because the people gave it their all. 95 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: So you're involved in an initial public offering for hwa AG, 96 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: the company behind Mercedes Racing. Tell us a little bit 97 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: about that IPO and that lead to your relationship with Mercedes. 98 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's quite interesting because that when AMG was bought 99 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 2: by Mercedes, the racing side was spun out because the 100 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 2: big Timeler corporation didn't want to have the headaches with 101 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: motor racing, you know, with the unions. This is weekend work, 102 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 2: and you want to stay argile as a corporate to 103 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: say well we're in the spot or we're out without 104 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 2: having too much overhead and headache. So that was spun 105 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 2: out and it was a really good high tech company. 106 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 2: They built engines for Formula three, as I said before, 107 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 2: touring cars for the very famous DTM racing series. This 108 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: is the equivalent of NASCAR in Germany or in Europe. 109 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: Limited editions broadcast for MG and high margin business. And 110 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 2: I bought forty nine percent of that business with the 111 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 2: founder of MG, and we iPod it and sold it 112 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 2: to investors and then to a Katari investment fund, and 113 00:06:58,160 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: that was a success story. 114 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: So how did that IPO lead to you eventually getting 115 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: tapped by Mercedes to both take a piece of the 116 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: of the team and become principal. 117 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: So it was multi faceted because we had this company 118 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 2: where we were basically doing all the work for Mercedes 119 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: Racing outside of Formula on. I had a driver management 120 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: company where fifty percent would be paid by Mercedes, fifty 121 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 2: percent by myself and so we established a trusting relationship. 122 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 2: And then I obviously embarked into being with Williams, which 123 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: was a competitive of Mercedes. We won a race and 124 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 2: they were interested to understand how can that be. You're 125 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: underfunded back market team and you're beating us on track, 126 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 2: and they asked me, could you evaluate that? And I said, 127 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 2: I don't want to bed mouth anybody, but I can, 128 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: so I did that. They came back and said, we 129 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: would like to offer you to run this as a 130 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 2: head of Mercedes. 131 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: Multiple was that a surprise? Was this? Like, very did 132 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: you have any during that conversation? Hey, why is a 133 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: wealth funded big team asking me how we beat them? 134 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: It sort of seems like an unusual situation, especially how 135 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: competitive everybody seems to be in the paddocks. 136 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: I think the board realized that that stage that it 137 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 2: bought a world championship team winning team with brawn, and 138 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: that the results were getting worse and worse, and they failed. 139 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: They had no grip on what was actually happening, and 140 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 2: that's why they asked me. They knew that I was 141 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 2: not biased because I had another team, but I was 142 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 2: with them in touring cars, and this is how it 143 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: all came about. 144 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: So you become a thirty percent owner of the Mercedes 145 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: Patrona's team and the principal how long is it before 146 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: that team starts winning races? What were the first couple 147 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: of years? 148 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 2: Like, So, my first day was in January twenty thirteen, 149 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,719 Speaker 2: and it was a difficult situation because I got the 150 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 2: job of head of Mercedes Motorsport and at the same 151 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 2: time sharehold of the team and executive director. But those 152 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 2: two posts were you know where we'd be that were 153 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: icons in the industry, A gentleman who was running Mercedes 154 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 2: Motorsport and then Ross Brown, a highly decorated technical director, 155 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 2: was running the team, and so had to manage that situation. 156 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 2: Eventually took over and when I joined, we started to 157 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: win races. In that first year, we won three races 158 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: with Lewis joined that year as well at the same 159 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 2: time as me. 160 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: That was his rookie year. You started the same time. 161 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, we were both rookies and Mercedes basically huh. And 162 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 2: that started to be a successfully and by the end 163 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 2: we were front runner and we finished second in the 164 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 2: championship and from then on we introduced new engine regulations 165 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 2: in fourteen, which was really core expertise of Mercedes obviously, 166 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: and then we had this run of eight consecutive World. 167 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: Championships, unprecedented run. We've never seen anything like that, even 168 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: in the Schumacher era. I don't think he won eight 169 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: consecutive championships. I have to ask an obvious question. You're 170 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: in venture capital investing, you're in race saying, what similarities 171 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: do you find between the two fields. You're dealing with 172 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: a lot of data, you're dealing with a lot of unknowns. 173 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: Did your background and venture investing help you put together 174 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: the winning streak at Mercedes? 175 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 2: It always starts with the human being because in tech, 176 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: human beings have ideas, they manage processes, and it's the 177 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 2: same informula one. When you talk about a company or 178 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 2: a team, what is that? And it's basically a bunch 179 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 2: of people that on this professional journey together. So around 180 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: people that run racing cars. And I did the same 181 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 2: when I was a venture capital invest stock. I tried 182 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: to hire and develop the best people to run a 183 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 2: specific organization. 184 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: And I mentioned when you joined Mercedes you took a 185 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: thirty percent ownership stake. Did I read this correctly? You 186 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: recently raised your stake in that, So what's your ownership 187 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: now of the team? 188 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly. When they offered me to run and I said, 189 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 2: that is super honorable, But I'm a shareholder at Williams 190 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: and the deal we found is that I bought forty 191 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: percent from the Abu dabis An Fund, and then Nick 192 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 2: Lauda came in and he bought ten percent, So it 193 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 2: was sixty Mercedes, thirty myself and ten Niki Lauda. And 194 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 2: when Nikki passed away, we found another investor. In today's 195 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: three shareholders each with thirty three point three percent, so 196 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 2: I increased my stake. As you say, so. 197 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: You're you're not a majority shareholder, but you're the principal. 198 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: How do you juggle dealing two other substantial shareholders, especially 199 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: when things become challenging. 200 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 2: I mean, I couldn't wish for a better shareholding group 201 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: because with the Naos we got a tremendous powerhouse behind us, 202 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 2: a very financially profitable organization. Obviously this chemicals business and 203 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 2: that is you go through cyclics. But Jim Redcliffe, the founder, 204 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 2: is involved in Manchester United and an America's Cup in skiing, 205 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 2: in cycling, so that was always that was a good 206 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: deal financially made sense. It was during COVID and then 207 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: Mercedes obviously providing us with this mighty car brand. The 208 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 2: seven most valuable brand in the world, and I'm running 209 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 2: it and between ours situary well understood who contributes. And 210 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 2: I deem myself very lucky that I have a shareholder 211 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 2: with Mercedes that's basically giving us the keys the responsibility 212 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 2: for this brand, and it's been great. The current Ceola Calaneus, 213 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: Marcus Schaeffer, CTO and the whole Bot gang is fantastically supportive, 214 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 2: and you know that's part of our success. 215 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: You seem to thrive in very competitive environments, not just 216 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: investing and racing, but America's Cup and yachting, free diving, 217 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: like you do a lot of what some people would 218 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: perceive as calculated, high risk activities. What is the competitive drive? 219 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: Where does this come from? 220 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 2: I don't know it. When I was young, and obviously 221 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 2: in racing, it was always a relative competition, you want 222 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 2: to beat the other guy, and I realized over the 223 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: years that it was actually more a competition with myself 224 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 2: setting expectations and trying everything in order to achieve that. 225 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 2: And today racing, whilst it's still a relative and we 226 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 2: want to beat our competitor, it is more for us. 227 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 2: It's not only me in the team. We want to 228 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 2: surpass our expectations and if we lose, it's not particularly 229 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 2: losing against another team, it's losing against ourselves. And the activities, 230 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 2: like you mentioned, is a fight against myself. How far 231 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: can I push myself? And I love free diving. It 232 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 2: has a meditative component for me and that I like, 233 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 2: I like the water, and you achieving certain depth is 234 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: expectations that are set myself and I don't need to 235 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 2: have anybody competing with me. 236 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: What's the longest you can hold your breath? I know 237 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: you must have timed this to the second. 238 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: Four minutes and fifteen seconds. 239 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: What do you think about some of these world champions 240 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: who are holding their breath ten, twelve, fourteen minutes? It 241 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: seems superhuman. 242 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was obviously the grades of the spot that 243 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,719 Speaker 2: have achieved it, but there is two different angles to it. 244 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 2: Some are basically you pump fresh oxygen in your body 245 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 2: to fill your lungs and that basically doubles your time 246 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 2: underwater holding your breath, and when you're doing it without it, 247 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 2: without it it forming. It is quite a good benchmark. 248 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,119 Speaker 1: So we talked earlier your rookie years with Lewis Hamilton. 249 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: I know you're a very competitive guy. Did you have 250 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: any sense when you were first beginning the sort of 251 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: run the two you were going to go on. 252 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: No, not at all. I think when I joined the 253 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 2: team they finished fifth in the World Championship, and then 254 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: we quickly became so competitive. And it is not particularly 255 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 2: just because of Lewis and myself. A really good group 256 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 2: came together and started to form in twenty twelve before 257 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 2: my time, and then it kind of started to rule. 258 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: And I want to put some flesh on those numbers. 259 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: Eight consecutive Formula One Constructors championships from twenty fourteen to 260 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. Seven consecutor drivers championships, and I put 261 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: an asterisk on it because we all know that eighth 262 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: one was stolen. We won't go get into that. I 263 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: don't want to put words in your mouth. This is 264 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: me saying that you you mentioned the whole team, and 265 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: that it's not just you were the driver. Tell us 266 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: about all the various people involved in this team. This 267 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: really is a team sport. 268 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: Absolutely every single team member contributes to the team's success. 269 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: And how I'd liked to make the let's say the 270 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: breach to people that would be saying, well, what is 271 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 2: my contribution? To the car speed. It is that someone 272 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 2: in another team, Ferrari or red Bull is doing your job. 273 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: Whether it's in accounting, it's finance and cleaning, someone is 274 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 2: doing that job. And as long as you're able to 275 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 2: outperform that person, and you keep that in mind, you're 276 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 2: contributing to the team's dynamic and to the team's success. 277 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: And that's why everyone in their position, if done with 278 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 2: discipline and responsibility, is contributing to making the car faster. 279 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: And when you say everyone, I want to go into 280 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: some details about some of the things you did, because 281 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: initially people thought it was ridiculous, and then the data 282 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: backed you up. At one point, you had the people 283 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: who cleaned the bathrooms make sure everything was wiped down 284 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: twice a day. You did these changes to something as 285 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: simple as the brush they used to clean the ball 286 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: and people thought you were a little obsessive compulsive about it. Hey, 287 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: why is Toto so nuts about the bathroom? But it 288 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: turns out your team gets ill last day stuff for 289 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: stomach viruses, lasses just there was a uptick in the 290 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: overall health of everybody in the organization once you implemented that. 291 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: What detail is too small for you to notice? 292 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: I've rarely seen cutting edge businesses without the founder of 293 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 2: the CEO or some of the top management being obsessed 294 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 2: with the detail. You have to be, because if you 295 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 2: don't have an attention to detail, how should the rest 296 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: then fly? And I came into the office my first 297 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 2: day and I said, in the lobby and there was 298 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: an old Daily Mail week, old Daily Mail newspaper and 299 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 2: some old coffee cups. And when I came to the 300 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 2: Guychross Brown, I was running and I said, well, that's 301 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 2: not how Formula one team should look like. And the 302 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: answer was the engineering is what makes a car quick, 303 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 2: and not the appearance of the reception. And I said, well, 304 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 2: I disagree, because it's the attention to detail that is important. 305 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: And if the reception as a point of sale for 306 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 2: NFONT team is not the standard, and what is the rest? 307 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: Why do people think they're mutually exclusive? You have great 308 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: engineering and a clean bathroom and lobby. 309 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, and chose your mindset, I guess. And you mentioned 310 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 2: the bathroom story, which has become a little bit famous, 311 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 2: and it's not being obsessed. But long before COVID, we 312 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 2: had hand sanitizers that were drilled into the walls of 313 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 2: the races where we were going, we had a hygiene 314 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 2: manager to today's many of them that looked after our health. 315 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 2: When you have sponsors and CEOs and husbands and wives 316 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: that are visiting our grand prixs and issuing big checks, 317 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 2: they are expecting these standards. You can't have a dirty bathroom. 318 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: And for me, there's no job too small, And I 319 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 2: know what I expect from going into a bathroom. So 320 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 2: this is how I taught them or what I would 321 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 2: think it should be done. And yeah, it's maybe one 322 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 2: example of many others. 323 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: I mean, it's an extreme example, but it points to 324 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: a certain culture and mindset. Talk a little bit about 325 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: the importance of culture to any organization. 326 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 2: Culture is the immune system of any organization, the immune 327 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 2: immune system, because when times are tough, that keeps the 328 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 2: team together, keeps the people aligned beyond maybe the co objectives, 329 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 2: because when you fail, you know, those objectives become difficult 330 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 2: to reach. And here's the crux. You can quickly put 331 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 2: some values on a piece of paper and say that's 332 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 2: our culture now, and we projected on the wall the 333 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 2: PowerPoint and this is the standards we want to live to. 334 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: But the truth is you've got to live it in 335 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 2: and they out. And for us, attitudes like loyalty and humility, 336 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: integrity just not just not words that we think about 337 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 2: some time because this, but these are the basic principles 338 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 2: upon we act. The old motto we're not all cost 339 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 2: doesn't work for us, and I don't want to work. 340 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 2: I don't want to we not along those lines, because 341 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 2: it means you're not made. You playing matter rules, or 342 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 2: you're stretching the rules to a degree that I feel comfortable. 343 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 2: We are in a business of reputation, and in that respect, 344 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 2: I want to do it the right way, and everybody 345 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 2: in the team wants to do it the right way. 346 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 2: We're playing the long game. It's not a game or 347 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 2: a race, but it's the next twenty years. Huh. 348 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: Really interesting. I have a bunch of rule questions for 349 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: you later, but I want to stay on the topic 350 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: of culture and people. How do you invest in and 351 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: retain talents? And I don't mean just a driver, I 352 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: mean engineers, everybody across the board. How do you find 353 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: and retain the best talent. 354 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 2: Like any other team and company out there. That's the 355 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 2: most complex of all actions, because hiring the best talent 356 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 2: and developing isn't yet a guarantee to long term success 357 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:56,360 Speaker 2: because environment change or exchange, people change, and I think 358 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 2: this is at the core of what we are trying 359 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,719 Speaker 2: to achieve and retaining them in the same way. You know, 360 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 2: we've been successful eight times in a row, won the championship, 361 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 2: and then obviously people get interesting opportunity, somebody doubles your 362 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 2: salary and another team. You have to have the responsibility 363 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 2: towards your family to consider that such moves, and that's 364 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 2: why it's the normal lab and flow with people coming 365 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 2: and people leaving. But you want to stay with that 366 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 2: core team that your team as being essential for the success. 367 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: How do you plan for that? I know there's a 368 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: sort of hyper competitive set of I don't want to 369 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: use the term poaching, but someone says, hey, we need 370 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 1: this sort of mechanic or this sort of engineer. I 371 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: like that guy as that team. How do you plan 372 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: for that? How do you cope with that loss of talent? 373 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 2: I think you need to have an overview about your 374 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 2: organization and the blueprint of how you want to have it. 375 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 2: And sometimes you operate even sometimes you operate along those 376 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 2: lines and you still fail in terms of the result. 377 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 2: So knowing who performs to which levels where you're having gaps, 378 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 2: do you need to hire outside or develop from within, 379 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 2: bring up talent and who is who is at risk 380 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 2: to be poached anyway, I think an overview of the 381 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 2: organization is key. 382 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: So let's stay with that topic. Last year was a 383 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: really challenging season. How do you keep the team motivated? 384 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: How do you face challenges when just it seems like 385 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: maybe two years ago especially, it felt like everything was 386 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: going wrong for the first half of the season. How 387 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: do you keep everybody's spirits up and people focused on 388 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: the job at hand. 389 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 2: It starts with myself. I have to acknowledge that maybe 390 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 2: my motivation or my energy levels are not that good 391 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,959 Speaker 2: if our results just don't happen, but it needs to. 392 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 2: I'm the one who kind of needs to have that energy, 393 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 2: imparts into the organization and keep the organization up. So 394 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 2: do my colleagues on the leadership level. And that's not easy. 395 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 2: It's not easy. You're having fald stones. You said your 396 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 2: expectations based on the previous results, and if they were great, 397 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 2: then obviously everything is a failure. So it's been a 398 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 2: process over the last three years to rationalize, not be 399 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 2: carried away with your emotions either way, and it's a 400 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 2: valuable time. And I'm sure we will be looking back 401 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 2: in ten in twenty years and saying we had those 402 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 2: eight consecutive wild championships and then we had a P three. 403 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 2: We finished third in a championship, then second in a championship. 404 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 2: Now it's more complicated at fourth, but we want three races. 405 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 2: So this is still a more successful season than the 406 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 2: once before and it's all part of the learning, as 407 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 2: tough as it is when you're right in there. 408 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: So you're working on a new legacy with two young drivers. 409 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: What can we expect from Kimmy Antonelli? How do you 410 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: compare his driving style to his predecessors? 411 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 2: Obviously, Louis Hamilton is irreplacible, is the greatest champion that 412 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 2: has existed. He's a fantastic personality. He's a core family 413 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 2: member of our team. But he decided he wants to 414 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 2: pursue the Ferrari dream, and like every Formula One driver 415 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 2: wants to do that, he got a fantastic framework of 416 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 2: an agreement and I'm at peace with it because we 417 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 2: decided to sign a short term deal with him because 418 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 2: we wanted to promote them to Naili to the team 419 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 2: and not lose him like we did with a Stub 420 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 2: ten years ago. So that is all very structured and amicable. 421 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 2: And now we have two drivers in our team that 422 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 2: are really juniors since the early days. George Russell was 423 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 2: a Mescedes junior since he was seventeen and Kimmi since 424 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 2: he was twelve. So having a lineup of an eighteen 425 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 2: year old and twenty seven year old is our future 426 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 2: and that means developing and there will be moments where 427 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 2: we tear our hair out, but he's quick and we've 428 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 2: seen that in the same way George. It's a great 429 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 2: opportunity for George to be the more senior drive and 430 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 2: the team at that stay. I'm happy about it. 431 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: So Hamilton one Silverstone in July kind of felt like 432 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: a bittersweet victory. What were you thinking when when he 433 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: took the podium. 434 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 2: It was only sweet. That was no bitter part of 435 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 2: it because we're still racing together. He will be part 436 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 2: of Mercedes's history forever. And him winning the British Grumpri 437 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: in his final year with Mercedes against all odds, we 438 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 2: couldn't have scripted it better. 439 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 1: And there has to be some sort of farewell. We're 440 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: planning for him at the end of the year. What 441 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: are you thinking about? How are you gonna, you know, 442 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: put a put a cap on this long term relationship. 443 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 2: When you look at it from a let's say, purely 444 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 2: professional side. When he's leaving Mercedes, he's going to one 445 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 2: of our competitors. Do we want to leave that like that? 446 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 2: And the question is the answer is no, certainly not. 447 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 2: We had so much success with each other. We want 448 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 2: to celebrate the time that that we had. And in 449 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 2: that respect, I think there's more many activities planned. He 450 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 2: doesn't know about it. He doesn't know what it is. 451 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: Well secrets here. 452 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 2: No, he knows that something is coming, but he doesn't 453 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 2: know what it is. And I'm very much looking forward 454 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 2: to that emotion, which is to this moment that's clearly 455 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 2: going to be very emotional. 456 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: It does seem like you are playing a very different game, 457 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: a very long game, than everybody else. I sometimes and 458 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: I know Drive to Survive is, you know, emphasizes the 459 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: conflict and stuff, But it sometimes seems that people are 460 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: just thinking about this race or maybe this season. You 461 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: guys really are looking out a decade or so into 462 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: the future. How is that built into your DNA, I. 463 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,479 Speaker 2: Think without wanting to be disrespectful. It's different if you're 464 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 2: running an organization as an employee that has a certain 465 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 2: shailed life and needs to perform in order to stay 466 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 2: in the job, or my situation as a shareholder being 467 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 2: able to look at the long term if you're if 468 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 2: you know that, you know I know if I'm not 469 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 2: in principle, I'm going to be on the board or 470 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: cham and still responsible for the overall company. So I 471 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 2: kind of get that that other people need to have 472 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: more short term perspectives. It's their livelihoods and their professional career. 473 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 2: And on the one side, I can look further down 474 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 2: into the future, but that shouldn't be an excuse of 475 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 2: not being successful at the specific moment. 476 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: You mentioned. Some of your drivers have come from Mercedes 477 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: junior teams. Where do you see talent coming from these days? 478 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: Not just driving talent, but crew and team members, mechanics, engineers. 479 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: Where are you looking for the next great hire for 480 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: Team Mercedes. 481 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 2: You just need to have a knowledge about the various 482 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 2: channels that talent can come up in. On drivers, we 483 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 2: are looking at car drivers from the age of eight 484 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 2: years old and we're seeing who can you know who 485 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 2: is outstanding. 486 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: You're literally tracking people a decade before they can even think. 487 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 2: Absolutely with our scouts that are on the most junior 488 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 2: of international count races, that are looking at those kids. 489 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 2: And we're not the only ones for ours doing that 490 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 2: and some of the other teams. So and when it 491 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 2: comes to engineering, we have a very strong undergraduate program, 492 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 2: internships and work experiences. We're giving opportunities to underprivileged and 493 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 2: underrepresented groups into the team because we believe not only 494 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 2: for the sake of doing it to do good, but 495 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: we believe more variability and diversity in our people will 496 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 2: give new perspectives and new perceptions and a lot of 497 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 2: ambition and drives so very early into academic careers, we're 498 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 2: looking at people. 499 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about that diversity. I read 500 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: following the Black Lives Matter protests and the death of 501 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: some American citizens at the hands of police. Here, you 502 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: had a long conversation with Lewis Hamilton. You painted the 503 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: car black, which was sort of unprecedented that hadn't been 504 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: done before, kept it that way for at least a season, 505 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: and if I remember correctly, and then made a commitment 506 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: to Hey, the minorities are very underrepresented in F one. 507 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: How can we expand this? How has that process gone 508 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: and how successful have you been? 509 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 2: I think long before Black Lives Matter, as a team, 510 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 2: we have always strived to be diverse. It was part 511 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 2: of my upbringing that I saw what it means to 512 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 2: be discriminated. Anti Semitism was a strong topic in my 513 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 2: upbringing in Vienna, and so that is always how we 514 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,479 Speaker 2: have been calibrated. And then when obviously Lewis was pushing 515 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 2: very hard for more diversity in our population in the team, 516 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 2: and we embraced that from the beginning. And then Black 517 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 2: Lives Matter started with you know, obviously the things that 518 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 2: happened in the in the US, and he said, shouldn't 519 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 2: we do you think we should paint the cow black? 520 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 2: Which is a highly unusual question because the silver arrows 521 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 2: very much. How the mercedeses are being called in the 522 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 2: racing world. 523 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: That's the history going back to what the nineteen thirties. 524 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, the very the first Mescedes racing car or the 525 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 2: earlier Mercedes racing cars were too heavy, so we scratched 526 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 2: off the white collar and it was the Bay aluminium, 527 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 2: the Bell silver and that state. But it was a 528 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: very quick decision. I called the board of Mercedes at 529 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: least listen. I have an unconventional question, and I think 530 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 2: it's good. Are we doing this? And it wasn't. It 531 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 2: was an absolute capital letter, yes, let's do that. And 532 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 2: so you can see the support of the White the 533 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 2: Mercedes organization for these topics. And here we go. The 534 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 2: car is still black until today. 535 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about Netflix and Drive to Survive. 536 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: I'm a fan of the show. I couldn't help but 537 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: notice that in the first season, you guys really didn't 538 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: participate in it. It now looks like you're not only participating, 539 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: but enjoying it. Tell us a little bit about your 540 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: experience with Netflix. 541 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 2: Clearly Ferrari and has got that wrong at the beginning, 542 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 2: because we decided for ourselves work participants in the Formula 543 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 2: one World Championships, and my colleague at Ferrari outspoken Italian 544 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 2: said we'll not see the soley, so we're not going 545 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 2: to act. And my approach was try to be pragmatic 546 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 2: and said, the moment you have microphones on you and cameras, 547 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 2: you're going to start to act. And I don't want 548 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 2: my engineers to act. For some cameras, so we said, 549 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 2: we're not doing it. But that was a blessing in 550 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 2: disguise because as we were not playing as the main protagonists, 551 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 2: Netflix was showing smaller teams, was showing drivers that weren't 552 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 2: competing for race wins or podiums, and that in itself 553 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 2: created the interest from our fans for the spot. So 554 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 2: you two, we joined, and from then on it's been 555 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 2: it's been a blast. They're doing a fantastic job the 556 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 2: impossible task of showing is sport a real sport and 557 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 2: honest sport, and on the other side trying to make 558 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 2: it spectacular and exciting and drama and glory. But it's 559 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 2: been a great success for Netflix and Formula one overall. 560 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,239 Speaker 1: So it's obviously brought a ton of new fans, and 561 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: not just overseas, but especially here in the United States, 562 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: and now there are multiple races that take place here 563 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: each year. How has the Netflix documentary expanded the audience 564 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: and expanded where you guys actually run races. 565 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 2: I think there were a few pillars that came together 566 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 2: for it to be so Formula one to be so successful. 567 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 2: We were the first spot to actually race in twenty twenty. 568 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 2: We had a very discipline and strangent COVID protocol. People 569 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 2: were at home. Netflix was showing our series, and the 570 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 2: racing was excited, exciting the first up Hamilton Saga, the 571 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 2: Grand Prix that you mentioned, twenty one, Abu Dhabi, many 572 00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 2: young drivers being avid social media protagonists, and all of 573 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 2: that contributed to a boom of Formula one in the 574 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 2: United States. We've always been in Austin. It's a fantastic place, 575 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 2: and last year was the single biggest event in the 576 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 2: United States to my knowledge, with four hundred and forty 577 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 2: thousand people. And since then, Miami has joined, in Las 578 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 2: Vegas has joined, and Formula one has been booming in 579 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 2: the United States in that affluent demographic. Our strongest growing 580 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 2: group is the young females fifteen to thirty five, believe 581 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,959 Speaker 2: it or not, and that shows how, you know, all 582 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 2: the things have come together and we are on a 583 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 2: successful path. But you've got to be wary. We know 584 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 2: that we're in the entertainment industry. We need to provide 585 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 2: a product that is exciting, and if we fail to 586 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 2: do so, we could as well hit some stumbling blocks. 587 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: So you do a pretty good job at not only 588 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: maintaining your emotions, but not revealing a lot. I kind 589 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: of got the sense in the beginning of the first 590 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: season that you participated in I was like, all right, 591 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: this is an annoyance, but I'll play it. Seems like 592 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: over the past few seasons you've kind of learned to 593 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 1: enjoy yourself more on camera, and sometimes it feels like 594 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: you're just throwing out these little bombs and leaving them 595 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: there for some of your competitors, especially at Redbill, you 596 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: seem to like to get under other people's skin in 597 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: a very subtle way. How much fun has the entire 598 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: Netflix Drive to Survive experience been for you? 599 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,280 Speaker 2: At the beginning, most of the teams gave Netflix a 600 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 2: full access to the premises and to the team members. 601 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 1: And by the way, you could do that if you're 602 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,359 Speaker 1: the back of the pack, right, you have too many, 603 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: too much stuff that you don't want anybody else to see. 604 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, but even front running teams failed. They needed to 605 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 2: be left and sent into the camera, and that's not 606 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 2: something we wanted to be, so we gave we immersed 607 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 2: them fully for our race to season, and funnily enough, 608 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 2: these were always our worst performances, but not in Netflix's 609 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 2: fault and over time, you just you just realize that 610 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 2: you embed those people into the team. We put them 611 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 2: in team clothes so they weren't looking like aliens in 612 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 2: the garage. And since then they have just been part 613 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 2: of our of our of our sport. And they've always 614 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 2: been very fair when it comes about, you know, cutting 615 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 2: out stuff that it was not appropriate or that wasn't 616 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 2: right to say. And it's been a great, great relationship. 617 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 2: And some of our you know, some of my colleagues, 618 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 2: they they're just keen and being a little bit more 619 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,919 Speaker 2: on Telly trying to stay authentic to who I am. 620 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 2: Sometimes that you know, makes me shine in a not 621 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 2: so good light. I'm not proud for some of the 622 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 2: moments that were captured on the other side. I want 623 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 2: to just continue to to be like I am and 624 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 2: not act. I'm not good at act. 625 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 1: That's very fair. Let's talk a little bit about what's 626 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: going on in F one today. It's pretty clear that 627 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 1: over the long haul, no single team has produced the 628 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: best car. Year after year, you could have a run, 629 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: but eventually the platform changes, the rules change. It's sort 630 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: of cyclical. Just how challenging is the F one engineering. 631 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: It seems like it's at an incredibly high level. 632 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 2: Formula one has always been at the pinnacle of racing 633 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 2: and high tech. We're an organization of two and a 634 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 2: half thousand people, half of them on the engine, the 635 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 2: other half on the chassis, and it's science. We're trying 636 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 2: to utilize the best infrastructure that there exists today, things 637 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 2: that are starting to really kick off an AI and 638 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 2: as an example, we operate wind tunnels and computational fluid 639 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 2: dynamic technologies, etc. Etc. And in that respect, it is 640 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 2: a huge, huge engineering challenge. But you know, having the 641 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,760 Speaker 2: best people and the best infrastructure is still no guarantee 642 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 2: for success, as it's been shown in our performance at 643 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 2: the moment. Rules change in Formula one and rules change 644 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 2: to have balance performances out and twice these changes were 645 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 2: thrown at us and we came out on top. And 646 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 2: this last time with ground effect cars, we were caught 647 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 2: out and we were not among the you know, winning teams. 648 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about some of those 649 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: rule changes, including rules that don't really seem to be enforced. First, 650 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 1: what's your most and least favored rule change of the 651 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: past few years. 652 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 2: Well, obviously I have a certain bias, so if I 653 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 2: look from the team's perspective, ground effect cars caused a 654 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 2: lot of problems because the lower you're round to the ground, 655 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 2: the faster you are. That smashed the flaws up. And 656 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 2: we were really not great at finding the best compromise here. 657 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 2: But you know, the rules are the rules. You need 658 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 2: to be trying to be the best and it's the 659 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 2: same conditions for everyone as long as everyone plays by 660 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 2: the rule book. And that's the tricky bit. 661 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: So let's talk about that. What rule do you think 662 00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: should be more strictly enforced? And they kind of softly enforced, 663 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: Like what are we not being strict about that we 664 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: should be. 665 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 2: I think the FAA, which the governing body, is trying 666 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 2: to be compliant and to enforce regulations, but sometimes you know, 667 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 2: they are facing a group of many thousands of engineers 668 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 2: on the team sides and they are maybe twenty so 669 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 2: they're always on the back foot trying to keep the 670 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 2: spot under control and that's not an easy task. 671 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,800 Speaker 1: What's your take on the budget cap that's now imposed 672 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: on F one teams. When they did this in the 673 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: National Football League here, it was to create a level 674 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: playing field so all teams could be competitive. What are 675 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: you seeing with this cap, how is it affecting the 676 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: way you guys hire and engineer the cars. 677 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 2: Well, the cost cap was implemented by Chase Carey, who 678 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 2: knew everything about media and football in the United States, 679 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 2: and he said, I'm gonna I need to protect you 680 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 2: from yourselves because Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes we were outspending 681 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 2: each other to have the best talent and best technologies, 682 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 2: and therefore we were always going. We were going faster 683 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 2: than many of the small teams. And he came in 684 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 2: with that. I was against obviously because we had the resource, 685 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 2: but he came in and our business models have changed 686 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 2: since then. We have profitable entities and not just the 687 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 2: marketing activity. And you can see this today there's four 688 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 2: teamstead of I think for for race victory. So he 689 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:23,959 Speaker 2: was right. 690 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 1: Where does the budget cap show its biggest effect? Is 691 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: it in the top speed of the cars? Is it 692 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: the handle and the cars? Is it the driver selection? 693 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 1: Where do you see the biggest impact of that that cap? 694 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 2: Well, drivers for example, are still excluded, which is something 695 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 2: we are looking at for the future, and certain marketing costs. 696 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 2: But as a matter of fact, everybody spends the same 697 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 2: amount of money. To date, it's about one hundred and 698 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 2: sixty and sixty five million dollars a year on engineering, 699 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 2: and that's a big number. That's still a very big number, 700 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 2: But we spent double before that. So how should a 701 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 2: small team like has compete with a Mecedes juggernaut that's 702 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 2: spending double the money on engineering today it's the same. Obviously, 703 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,919 Speaker 2: that catch up phase is going to take longer because 704 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 2: we have infrastructure that's been created since a long time. 705 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 2: We spend a billion in our sides I guess in 706 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 2: the last ten years, but over time that's going to 707 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 2: level out. And that's why it was the right decision. 708 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: So let's talk about some other teams. First of all, 709 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,720 Speaker 1: what do you think about Andretti? Should he be allowed 710 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,839 Speaker 1: to join? Should there be another team in Formula one? 711 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 2: First of all, the teams have no say in this. 712 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 2: It's the governing body and the commercial rights holder. My 713 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,839 Speaker 2: personal opinion is that if a team wants to enter 714 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 2: Formula one, it should be carefully evaluated like it's been 715 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,720 Speaker 2: done in the US, like the NFL decides who is joining, 716 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 2: and for us, it's a very easy exercise. If a 717 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 2: team can contribute to the Formula success Formula one success 718 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 2: by increasing its audiences, marketing power, etc. Then it's a 719 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,520 Speaker 2: logic consequence that as a team we would be for it. 720 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 2: But then of course we have no vote, which just 721 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 2: can we just give our opinion? And I think this 722 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 2: is the exercise that Formula one and the governing body 723 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 2: you need to evaluate who is providing a real usb 724 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 2: and providing a contribution to the spot that makes it 725 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,319 Speaker 2: grow beyond the current curve. 726 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: Right, So in the US, when we expanded baseball and 727 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: we expanded football, there was a little dilution of talent. 728 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:33,880 Speaker 1: You had a little you had fewer Juggernauts, although arguably 729 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 1: Tom Brady and the New England Patriots ran the table 730 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 1: for quite a while. Is that a risk if we 731 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: add more teams or there's plenty of talent to go around. 732 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 2: I think you need to embrace all competition. We are 733 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 2: there to fight against the other teams, and whoever's not 734 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,719 Speaker 2: doing a better job this deserves to win. So that 735 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 2: is not at all a limiting factor. I think, like 736 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 2: the US leagues have done it, it needs to be 737 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 2: carefully evaluated what the benefit is of increasing of increasing 738 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 2: the amount of teams joining for the incumbents and also 739 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 2: for a new team and the sport overall. 740 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 1: So let's talk about drivers Lewis Hamilton, Max Rostab and 741 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: the previous generation Michael Schumacher. How do you rate these 742 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,839 Speaker 1: top Formula one racers. 743 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:34,359 Speaker 2: Each of them was the predominant driver in the areas eras. 744 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 2: Each of these drivers have been the predominant drivers of 745 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:45,800 Speaker 2: their era. And it's very difficult to compare Fangio to Moss, 746 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:51,440 Speaker 2: to Senna to Schumacher and Lewis Hamilton for stub now 747 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 2: because they're all different and we wouldn't do them justice 748 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 2: by doing such a simple comparison. But if you look 749 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:03,760 Speaker 2: at the pure numbers today, Lewis scored the most victories, 750 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,439 Speaker 2: the most poor positions in his unequal power with Michael 751 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 2: Schumacher in terms of titles, maybe he should have could 752 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 2: have one more in twenty twenty one. So that's the 753 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 2: fact of the methom huh. 754 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: Really interesting. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm 755 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,200 Speaker 1: going to ask my curveball question and then I have 756 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of technical questions. You had this fascinating 757 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,240 Speaker 1: quote in a voting international which I thought was really 758 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,839 Speaker 1: really interesting quote. I think in life, you must have 759 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: three motivations somebody to love, something to do, and something 760 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 1: to dream of. Explain that that's not exactly what I 761 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 1: think of when I think of a Formula one principle. 762 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 2: I think I had some tough moments in my life. 763 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 2: My upbringing wasn't easy. My father died very young, we 764 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,719 Speaker 2: literally had no money, and over the course of time, 765 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,920 Speaker 2: mental healths has been something that I have struggled with 766 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,839 Speaker 2: at times. And so I came to the realization, after 767 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 2: you know, becoming older, what is it really that makes 768 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 2: us happy, that makes us strive? And these three things 769 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:20,280 Speaker 2: kind of summarize it for me. When you are running 770 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 2: out of dreams or when you're running out of activity, 771 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 2: and if you can't have someone to share it with, 772 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 2: then for me, there is such a big gap that 773 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,920 Speaker 2: exists in your life that I would you know, but 774 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:38,399 Speaker 2: that's maybe just my personal view. 775 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,879 Speaker 1: Well, that's very philosophical. It's not what we typically think 776 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:47,920 Speaker 1: of when we think of competitive sports. It's thoughtful and introspective, 777 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,719 Speaker 1: and it just stood out to me, is not what 778 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: I would have expected from you. 779 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 2: I deal with people, you know, this is all about 780 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,360 Speaker 2: humans being on a journey in the team trying to 781 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 2: be successful, and if you are, you know, more vulnerable 782 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,280 Speaker 2: in terms of your feelings, you introspect more. That's happened, 783 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,320 Speaker 2: that's happening to me all the time. So I think, 784 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:17,279 Speaker 2: you know, we are more visible leaders in organizations. We 785 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 2: should be. We should be speaking more about mental healths 786 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:28,560 Speaker 2: rather than appearing like the unbreakable, unbreakable individuals that have 787 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 2: never weak moments. 788 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:34,560 Speaker 1: So let's spend some time talking about getting a little technical, 789 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,640 Speaker 1: talking about some F one issues that I think are 790 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: really fascinating. So it seems like a lot of the 791 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,080 Speaker 1: head to head racing takes place in the middle of 792 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,440 Speaker 1: the field, not the front of the field. What do 793 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: you think about some of the proposals and some of 794 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: the ideas to make that head to head passing in 795 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: the front of the field. How are the rules being 796 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 1: concerned so that you just don't I'm Monaco is a 797 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,759 Speaker 1: special case, but it seems like in some races it's 798 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 1: much harder if you have two people neck and neck 799 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,480 Speaker 1: for the number two car at the front of the 800 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,399 Speaker 1: front of the grid to pass the number one car. 801 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 2: I think there's two reasons. It's very track specific. Many tracks, 802 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:24,040 Speaker 2: even with close performances you can overtake. Long straights are 803 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 2: important factor because the aerodynamic efficiencies of those cars are 804 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 2: so good that it's difficult to get out of the 805 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:35,200 Speaker 2: slipstream because there isn't anyone any slipstream anymore. The other 806 00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 2: thing is that the competition is so close. Sometimes you 807 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,399 Speaker 2: have a second between P one and P fifteen and they. 808 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,600 Speaker 1: Are for four second. Wow, that's amazing, that's amazing. 809 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,600 Speaker 2: We have top eight cars sometimes separated within three or 810 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 2: four tents, and that's why there is no car ever 811 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 2: to be so much faster. So it only works with 812 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,280 Speaker 2: strategy and entire degradation. But this season has been pretty 813 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 2: successful in terms of overtakes and excitement. 814 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 1: So there was a comment for Benito that making AUDI 815 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,760 Speaker 1: successful will be like climbing Everest. What are your thoughts 816 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:07,120 Speaker 1: on that. 817 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 2: I think that's a pretty good analogy. Formula one is 818 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 2: a very high entry barrier spot. But if somebody can 819 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 2: do it, then an organization like AUDI. I mean, they 820 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 2: have been very successful in motor racing in general. The 821 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,600 Speaker 2: a Lemont program was the best ever and they have 822 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,319 Speaker 2: the capability and they will attract the people to make 823 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,440 Speaker 2: it a success. But one thing that I've learned in 824 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,000 Speaker 2: formula one you need time and I hope that as 825 00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,879 Speaker 2: an OEM, they are capable of giving the project enough time, 826 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,680 Speaker 2: like Mercedes has given us enough time to become successful. 827 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,680 Speaker 1: Let's talk about gearbox and transmission development. Are we at 828 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 1: peak gear changing? Is there more performance to be run 829 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:54,560 Speaker 1: out of that? 830 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,000 Speaker 2: Now we're getting very specific. Yeah, the gearboxes today a 831 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:04,840 Speaker 2: fully automatic, seamless shift gearboxes and it doesn't go you know, 832 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:06,920 Speaker 2: there's no talk break anymore. 833 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: It's literally instant like there's just a millisecond between gears. 834 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 2: You wouldn't even feel it, which is which is amazing technology. 835 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:21,720 Speaker 2: So that is pretty managed, you know, to the max 836 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,279 Speaker 2: of what it can be. And in power units in 837 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, we're becoming sustainable engines, still highly efficient, 838 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:32,960 Speaker 2: highly powerful, fifty percent combustion, fifty percent electric, but with 839 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,359 Speaker 2: one hundred percent waste based biofield. And this is where 840 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,759 Speaker 2: the world is going zero carbon carbon emission reduced to 841 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,040 Speaker 2: zero because it stays in the cycle. So I think 842 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,719 Speaker 2: we are rolled. We need to be role models in 843 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,680 Speaker 2: the auto industry. We need to be innovative. Ev hasn't 844 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:55,120 Speaker 2: been as the implementation of electric vehicles hasn't been as 845 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,279 Speaker 2: quick as we all thought, and therefore fueling the best 846 00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 2: engines in the world in the quickest cars in the 847 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,200 Speaker 2: world with a biofuel, I think is a good way 848 00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,360 Speaker 2: of participating in the energy transition. 849 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,320 Speaker 1: So you guys have done a lot of work both 850 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:20,719 Speaker 1: modeling and using AI for wind resistance and the dynamics 851 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,560 Speaker 1: of the car in wind tunnels and how it's going 852 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,719 Speaker 1: to react. It seems like that is the most challenging 853 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:32,520 Speaker 1: aspect to take from the computer to the track. Is 854 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,120 Speaker 1: there some sort of a formula where you're testing something, 855 00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,600 Speaker 1: how do you decide this is go or no go? 856 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:42,080 Speaker 1: When it comes to actually implementing all of the aerodynamics 857 00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:43,440 Speaker 1: to the actual. 858 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,759 Speaker 2: Car, there's lots of science behind it. And it's not 859 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 2: only wind tunnels because that is pretty old technology, but 860 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:56,520 Speaker 2: there's simulations, simulations, tool driver and the loop simulators CFD 861 00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:01,759 Speaker 2: and lots of other highly sophisticated development capability. But correlation 862 00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,160 Speaker 2: to the track is then another is then another topic. 863 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,719 Speaker 2: First of all, you have a driver in the car, 864 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,239 Speaker 2: the human being you could say, the engine is called 865 00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:12,280 Speaker 2: it the weakness between the steering wheel and the engine 866 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:17,080 Speaker 2: good and bad days. How do you put that into data. 867 00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 2: So correlating that is today the crux of the matter. 868 00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:28,120 Speaker 2: And that's something that all the teams struggle, that their 869 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,239 Speaker 2: simulations are telling them one thing, but the drivers are 870 00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:32,200 Speaker 2: telling them something else. 871 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,360 Speaker 1: It seems more art than science. 872 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,879 Speaker 2: I know, I fundamentally believe and we in the team 873 00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,920 Speaker 2: do that it is science and it must stay science. 874 00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,719 Speaker 2: But we haven't with this current ground effect cars all 875 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,520 Speaker 2: of us figured out why sometimes it doesn't correlate with 876 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:51,360 Speaker 2: the virtual world. 877 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,680 Speaker 1: Huh, it's a model. What's the old line from Professor 878 00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:59,080 Speaker 1: George Box All models are wrong, but some are useful. 879 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,440 Speaker 1: Is that how the ground effects end up working out. 880 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,239 Speaker 2: In the real world. I didn't hear that sentence, but 881 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,160 Speaker 2: it pretty much sums up where we are today. 882 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, a famous quote about economic modeling. Well, models are wrong, 883 00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,160 Speaker 1: but some are useful. It very much works out. Let 884 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,239 Speaker 1: me jump to my favorite questions that I asked all 885 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:22,480 Speaker 1: of my guests, starting with besides Drive to Survive, what 886 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,800 Speaker 1: else do you watch on Netflix? What keeps you entertained? 887 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:30,400 Speaker 2: Well? I was never kind of a TV person so much. 888 00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:36,440 Speaker 2: I preferred to read, do some sports, But most recently 889 00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 2: there's more and more interesting streaming series coming out. I 890 00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:48,240 Speaker 2: like sports documentaries. The last one that I enjoyed was Printers. 891 00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,920 Speaker 2: That was different sports that I didn't that I didn't 892 00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,440 Speaker 2: know a lot about. Still about speed, Still about speed. 893 00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,040 Speaker 2: I like to Tour de France, the documentary, So that's 894 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:03,480 Speaker 2: more the kind of spectrum that I like to watch. 895 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:09,040 Speaker 1: Let's talk about mentors who helped shape your career, who 896 00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,480 Speaker 1: helped put you on the path that you've been on. 897 00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,319 Speaker 2: When I was eight years old, my dad got very 898 00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,799 Speaker 2: ill and died a few years later, and my mother 899 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,480 Speaker 2: could barely make our living. I was responsible for myself 900 00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:28,520 Speaker 2: and my sister, and that very much carved my personality. 901 00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:34,080 Speaker 2: There was no mentor I was. I had the responsibility 902 00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,759 Speaker 2: and accountability since my early years, and that's who I am. 903 00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:43,960 Speaker 1: Our final two questions, someone's interested in a career in racing, 904 00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:48,160 Speaker 1: in Formula one, in high performance engineering, what sort of 905 00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,960 Speaker 1: advice would you give them? 906 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,400 Speaker 2: My advice to someone would be like, if you're able 907 00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,560 Speaker 2: at an early age to find out what you enjoy doing, 908 00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 2: and that may change. I think by the way, young 909 00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,600 Speaker 2: people much too under pressure to find the so called 910 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:04,880 Speaker 2: passion at the age of twenty two, which is nonsense. 911 00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,880 Speaker 2: Give them, Give them time to be all around us 912 00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,880 Speaker 2: and then in the late twenties to find out what 913 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:15,400 Speaker 2: they want to specialize in. But you can become all 914 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:19,319 Speaker 2: you want if motor racing or engineering or driving is 915 00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,239 Speaker 2: what you think you're good at, and then give it 916 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,799 Speaker 2: all you have and you will be eventually successful. 917 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,680 Speaker 1: And our final question, what do you know about the 918 00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,160 Speaker 1: world of Formula one racing today that you wish you 919 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,719 Speaker 1: knew when you first started out with the Williams team? 920 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,279 Speaker 2: All of it? I mean literally, when I started, I 921 00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:43,200 Speaker 2: didn't understand many fundamental topics in Formula one. But it's 922 00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:45,200 Speaker 2: part of the trajectory. You've got to learn it the 923 00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:49,359 Speaker 2: hard way, sometimes by doing it by failing. So that's 924 00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,000 Speaker 2: all you know was all important. 925 00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,400 Speaker 1: Thank you Toto for being so generous with your time. 926 00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:59,040 Speaker 1: We have been speaking with Toto Wolf. He is the 927 00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:04,200 Speaker 1: principal CEO of Mercedes F one team. If you enjoy 928 00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,080 Speaker 1: this conversation, well, be sure and check out all of 929 00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,239 Speaker 1: the previous five hundred or so we've done over the 930 00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:15,319 Speaker 1: past ten years. You can find those at Bloomberg, YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, 931 00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,160 Speaker 1: wherever you find your favorite podcasts. And be sure and 932 00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:22,320 Speaker 1: check out my new short form podcast at the Money 933 00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,960 Speaker 1: conversations with experts about your money, earning it, spending it, 934 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,600 Speaker 1: and most importantly, investing it. At the Money wherever you 935 00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,439 Speaker 1: find your favorite podcasts or in the Masters in Business feed, 936 00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:36,839 Speaker 1: I would be remiss if I do not thank our 937 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:40,000 Speaker 1: crack team that helps put these conversations together each week. 938 00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:45,600 Speaker 1: Steve Gonzalez is my audio engineer. Anna Luke is my producer. 939 00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,600 Speaker 1: Sean Russo is my head of research. Sage Bauman is 940 00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,720 Speaker 1: the head of all podcasts here at Bloomberg. I'm Barry Rihelts. 941 00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:57,080 Speaker 1: You've been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. 942 00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,960 Speaker 1: Assass