1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg sound On. 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: She's safe, She's on a plane. She's on our way 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,159 Speaker 1: home after months of being unjustly detained in Russians. Over 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: the last nine MONTHIO have been so privy to one 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: of the darkest moments of my life. It's difficult to 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: second guest this Bloomberg sound on Politics, Policy and Perspective 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: from DC's top name on this boat. The yates are 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty eight. The names are one sixty 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: nine present once the motion is adoptive. Bloomberg Sound On 10 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio, Brittney Grinder is almost home. 11 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the fastest hour in politics. With a Russian 12 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: prisoner swap in the bag, the Biden administration balances joy 13 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: over an American freed from prison along with questions about 14 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: its national security implications. We talked with Tom Firestone, former 15 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: assistant U S attorney who practiced law in Moscow and 16 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: now represents other Americans detained in Russia. His inside view 17 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: of the process coming up. Pentagon funding passes the House 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: after a military vaccine mandate is stripped. What does President 19 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: Biden do when it reaches its desk, his desk, assuming 20 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: it does. We're joined by Bloomberg Government's Jack Fitzpatrick on 21 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: negotiations on Capitol Hill on how to fund the government, 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: analysis on all these stories from our signature panel Bloomberg 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: Politics contributors Rick Davis and Jeannie Chanzano here for the hour. 24 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: No one saw that one coming. The first indications that 25 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: something was happening at the White House came in the 26 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: six am hour, as reporters were summoned about an hour later, 27 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: knowing at that point that the President was set to 28 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: announce something big, and they learned shortly after that Britney 29 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: Grinder was coming home. They gathered in the Roosevelt Room. 30 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: The President entered, along with the Vice President and Brittney 31 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: Grinder's wife Cherrell. Listen. Moments ago was standing together with 32 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: her Shrew and the Oval Office. I spoke with Brittany Grinner. 33 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: She's safe, she's on a plane. She's on our way 34 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: home after months being unjustly detained in Russia, held on 35 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: her intolerable circumstances. Brittany will soon be back in the 36 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: arms of her loved ones, and and she should have 37 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: been there all along. It was a bit of a celebration. 38 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: Sherell spoke emotionally about it, by the way, incredibly composed 39 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: in this moment, in this room full of reporters. But 40 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: as much as that was the case, the President also 41 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: knew the questions were coming. Right. Grinder was traded for 42 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: a Russian arms dealer, Victor Boot, known as the Merchant 43 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: of Death, which was already being criticized. And what about 44 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: Paul Wheelan, the man who served as a US Marine. 45 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: By the way, there were no former Marines accused by 46 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: the Russians of spying this. He was detained in ten 47 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: left behind. Again, here's President Biden. We've not forgotten about 48 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: Paul Whalen, who's been on justly detained in Russia for years. 49 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: This was not a choice of which American to being home. 50 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: We brought home Trevor Reid when we had a chance 51 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: earlier this year. Sadly, for totally illegitimate reasons. Russia is 52 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: treating Paul's case differently than Brittany's. And while we have 53 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: not yet succeeded in securing and Paul's revise, we are 54 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: not giving up. And so it's complicated. J Johnson, the 55 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: former Secretary of Homeland Security, talked about it today on Bloomberg. 56 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: Also served as General Council of the Pentagon, so he's 57 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 1: got a pretty unique understanding of this. He talked with 58 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: David Weston on balance of power. Listen, should we hold 59 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: against her the fact that the person on the other 60 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: side of the equation was rightfully convicted for something very dangerous? 61 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: I say no. And there are many considerations, foreign policy considerations, 62 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: national security considerations. It's a multidimensional context. So it's difficult 63 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: to second guess this. It's complicated, and we had another 64 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: voice with a unique view. Tom Firestone is a former 65 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: assistant U S attorney, practiced law in Moscow and helps 66 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: to represent other Americans detained in Russia. Now partner at 67 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: Stroke and Stroke and Levan. Tom, welcome back to Bloomberg. 68 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having me so an American 69 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: basketball star for a notorious arms dealer. How do you 70 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: qualify this swap? Well, this was basically a hostage exchange. 71 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you can't look at it is is this 72 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: a fair trade the way you would look at a 73 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,239 Speaker 1: professional sports trade or something like that. It was unequal bargaining. Um, 74 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: we very very much wanted to get Brittney Grinder out 75 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: there was a lot of pressure on the administration to 76 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: do that and a lot of compassion and concern for 77 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: her well being. The Russians could We're not under the 78 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: Russian government was not under equivalent pressure, so they were 79 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: able to play hardball and they got Victor boot out. 80 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: But thank god, Brittney Griner is out and is safe. 81 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: The White House says there was no mediation involved, which 82 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: I thought was really interesting. Just the US and Russia here, 83 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: what what does that tell you about the nature of 84 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: this deal, knowing that we're in a proxy war with 85 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: Russia and Ukraine. Well, we're in a obviously an extremely 86 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 1: serious conflict. Relations probably have never been worse between the 87 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: United States and Russia. But it shows that even in 88 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: that situation, there are some areas of common interest where 89 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: we can negotiate exchanges. Let's not forget the deal involving 90 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: Trevor Reid and Constantin Yarushenko was also done against the 91 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: backdrop of the Ukraine War. So it shows that diplomats 92 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: are continuing to work on certain specific interests as certain 93 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: specific issues where there is a mutual interest. So that 94 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: is encouraging. So for with that said, does this help 95 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: or hurt our chances of getting a deal for Paul Wheelan. 96 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: It's hard to say because the two prizes that the 97 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: Russians wanted, by all accounts, were really constantin Yarushenko and 98 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: Victor boot and those have now they have both now 99 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: been sent back to Russia, so we have less to 100 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: offer at this point. However, there are other Russians in 101 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: federal facilities, in federal prisons in the United States who 102 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: may be of interest to the Russians. So UM, I 103 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: know the administration is very focused on getting wheel And back. 104 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: They've mentioned that a lot. I think they're doing everything 105 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: they can, and President Biden expressed his you know, regret 106 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: that they weren't able to get him in this um 107 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: in this exchange. There are also other Americans they're who 108 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: we need to get back. Um. I am involved in 109 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: the representation of Mark vogel Ast, sixty one year old 110 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: school teacher who got fourteen years for uh seventeen grams 111 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: of medical cannabis. Um was also in a penal colony 112 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: right now. So there are a lot of other Americans 113 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: who should not be forgotten. And I think everyone appreciated 114 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: Brittney Griner's wife mentioning them during her statement at the 115 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: press conference today. I can't imagine how Mark Vogel's family 116 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 1: feels right now. Have you spoken with them, UM, I have. 117 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: I'm into regular touch with them, and I think they 118 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: ill um that. I think they're encouraged. They're happy for 119 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: Brittney Grinder's family. They're encouraged that this may be an 120 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: indication that UM channels of negotiation remain open. However, they 121 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: are obviously disappointed that Mark has not been brought back 122 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: yet and are very hope, very much hoping that the 123 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: administration is going to apply the same efforts that they 124 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: applied to UM the Grinder and Reed cases to get 125 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: him back as well. Tom, Must it always be a 126 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: prisoner swap? Is there nothing else that we have to 127 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: offer to secure a deal like this? I think there 128 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: are other things that we have to offer. I mean, 129 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: there are all sorts of issues between the United States 130 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: and Russia. There are various security issues, UM, so it 131 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: does not have to be a prisoner swap. I don't 132 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: know what those other issues are. Those are parts of 133 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: those are some of the things that are cloaked in secrecy. 134 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: But there can be other concessions and we don't know. 135 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: Maybe this was just the beginning. This is the tip 136 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: of the iceberg and is part of a bigger agreement 137 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: that and not privy too yet. As we mentioned, you 138 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: practiced law, you worked as a lawyer in Moscow. Bring 139 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: us inside a little bit here to the extent that 140 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: you could imagine. I know you're not directly involved in 141 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: the Grinder deal, and we should make that clear to 142 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: our listeners. But first of all, talk to me about 143 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: her legal representation. What kind of a world are they 144 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: in here while that deal is taking place? Are they 145 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: involved in it or are they hearing about it as 146 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: it happens. I it could be either way. You'd have 147 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: to talk to them. I mean, she had very good lawyers. Um, 148 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: I know the firm that represented her. They did the 149 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: best they could with the in court proceedings. And do 150 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: you think they left with her. I don't think they 151 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: left with her. No, I have no there's no reason 152 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: to believe they left with her. I think they did 153 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: their job as lawyers, and they'll continue to practice law 154 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: in Russia for all I know. Okay, interesting, tell me 155 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: about the actual transfer. Then you're serving time as an 156 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 1: American in a Russian penal colony. Someone comes to your 157 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: cell and tells you to come with them. I don't 158 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: know that it's quite like that. I imagine she was 159 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: given some advanced notification if she she was not in 160 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: Moscow at the time that you know, she had already 161 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: been sent to her her facility outside of Moscow. So 162 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: I imagine they came to her shortly beforehand they brought 163 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: her to Moscow. They probably told her what was going on, 164 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, a minimal amount of time before, because again 165 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: this is common with any kind of prisoner transfer, not 166 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: just in a high profile case like this. You can't 167 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: have the prison authorities have to be very careful about 168 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: what information they reveal about prisoner movements. So I imagine 169 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: she was told a very very short time before she 170 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: was brought out of the facility to Moscow, and then 171 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 1: she was probably taken very quickly to a plane to 172 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: get her out of there. And then there's a meeting 173 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: somewhere in a room at an airport. Um apparently, so 174 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: I obviously was not involved in it. According to some accounts, 175 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: the exchange was actually done in the UAE, so it 176 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: would be that both of them were brought there and 177 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: there was there was an exchange. They probably Obviously both 178 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: would have been brought with a lot of security around them, 179 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: and the secure their security turned them over and turned 180 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: Ms Grinder over to our people and vice averse. And 181 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: that's government or military security, not her own private security. 182 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: Of course that would be no. Of course that would 183 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: be because she's in Russian custody. So it'd have to 184 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: be Russian security personnel that brought her all the way 185 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: to the point of transfer, and then she would be 186 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 1: delivered over to US custody. I'm not trying to be 187 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: too cute here, but does she get her belongings back? Um? 188 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: She should get her belongings back? Absolutely, Um she should 189 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: get I don't know what she had on her when 190 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: she was detained. I think she just had one or 191 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: two suitcases. But she should absolutely get that back. Um, 192 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: and that should go with her. So what's the process 193 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: then for someone who's gone through this they come back 194 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: to the United States? Uh, And I'm sure that there's 195 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: actually a very difficult right ahead for them. I think so. 196 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: I you know, once she gets back here, she's really 197 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: outside of the world that I have expertise in the 198 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: Russian criminal justice system. It will really be up to 199 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: her family and the w n b A. I think 200 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: she's got a lot of support here and I think 201 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: that from what I've been able to tell, the w 202 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: A n BA has said they're going to do everything 203 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: they can to re integrate her into the sport and 204 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: to make her life here better. I imagine having been 205 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 1: detained for nine months, she's not had the opportunity to 206 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: train and to keep herself in shape the way she 207 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: would ordinarily. So I I have no idea, but I 208 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: imagine that will take some time to get back in shape, 209 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: and hopefully she'll be able to resume her position and 210 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: play again in UM for the Phoenix team. I can't 211 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: imagine the emotional journey that somebody goes through after that. 212 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: Uh Tom, When there is a negotiated settlement to the 213 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: war in Ukraine, is that a vehicle for more releases. 214 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: I would certainly hope so, But I hope at the 215 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: same time, I hope we're not waiting for that, because 216 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: no one knows when that's going to happen. But when 217 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: relations improve, and we saw this in Dayton, we saw 218 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: this in the late you know Dayton in the seventies. 219 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: We saw this in the Gorbachev here in the late eighties. 220 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: When relations improve against that back trial, it's much easier 221 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: to get people out than The focus was not so 222 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: much on Americans, it was on so called refuse next 223 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: or dissidents who couldn't get out. But obviously when the 224 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: relationship improves, there's a lot more on the table, and 225 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: I would I would certainly first, I hope that the 226 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: relationship improves as soon as possible, and I certainly hope 227 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: as part of that that other Americans were detained um 228 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: in Russia get out. Well. We'd love to stay in 229 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: touch with you along the way. Really appreciate your insights 230 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: and your expertise. Tom Firestone, former assisted US attorney, spent 231 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: some time in Moscow, as you can tell now, partner 232 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: at Struke and Struke and Lavin. Tom, thanks so much 233 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: for being with us on Bloomberg. My pleasure. The reports say, 234 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: by the way, she'll be home late tonight or early 235 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: tomorrow morning, or at least we'll arrive late tonight tomorrow morning. 236 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: But must have been something to be on the phone 237 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:48,719 Speaker 1: with the President of the United States. The whole thing 238 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: was really incredible to watch as we assembled our panel 239 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: for their take on this. The balance of the swap 240 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: with our signature panel. Jeannie Schanzano and Rick Davis are 241 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: here Bloomberg Politics contributors. What do you think about this, U? Rick? 242 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 1: You know, I thought J. Johnson's words were pretty interesting. 243 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of questions about why we would 244 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: swap an American basketball player for a Russian arms dealer 245 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: who we know has been tied to the deaths of 246 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: Americans and could kill more Americans. But J. Johnson says 247 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: Britney Grinder should not be penalized for that. Do you agree? Yeah? Absolutely. 248 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you can only come to the table with 249 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: the cards that you have, and and obviously Victor boot 250 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: was one of our best cards, and and I think 251 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: she was one of our highest priorities. Not that everybody 252 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: else who isn't incarcerated in Russias an American citizen isn't 253 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: a priority. But there was an enormous amount of pressure, 254 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: and I think probably, uh, we got the deal that 255 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: there was to get right. In other words, everything I've 256 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: heard today from people who have been a lot more 257 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: focused on it than I have, is that there really 258 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: was an appetite on the Russian side to trade for 259 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 1: Paul Whalen or anybody else. But they thought they could 260 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: get what they wanted with Brittney Grinder, maybe one of 261 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: the reasons why they incarcerated her to begin with. But look, 262 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: I mean, Victor Boot, he's a bad guy, but he's 263 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: been out of the game for fifteen years, uh, incarcerated 264 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: in the US penal system. We hope our rehabilitation efforts 265 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: have made their impact. I'd really be surprised to see 266 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: him show up in North Korea getting guns for Russian soldiers, 267 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: and he would Well, I'll tell you what. The critics 268 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: are certainly coming out of the woodwork, Genie. And it's 269 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: not just Marjorie Taylor Green who called this another reason 270 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: to impeach Joe Biden. We heard from a Representative McCall, 271 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: the ranking member House Foreign Affairs Committee, Michael McCall, in 272 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: a statement, I believe that Ms. Grind will be returned 273 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: home safely. However, trading Victor Boot, a dangerous convicted arms 274 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: dealer in prison for conspiring to kill Americans, will only 275 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: in bolden Vladimir Putin to continue his evil practice of 276 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: taking innocent Americans hostage for you, says political pawns. Is 277 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: he wrong? You know? We heard it not only from 278 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: a all We also heard it from the President's close 279 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: friend Chris Coons, who said, you know, echoed the sentiment, great, 280 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: she's coming home, but there's a heavy price to pay 281 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: for that, and that we're encouraging, potentially hopefully not encouraging 282 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: others to take prisoners. And the President warned in his 283 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: statement today americans traveling abroad, particular to the places like 284 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: Russia or Iran, or Turkey or Syria, that they've got 285 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: to be incredibly careful. And you know, this has been 286 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: the longstanding debate. We do not, famously in this country 287 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: negotiate with terrorist groups when they capture Americans, and several 288 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: Americans have been beheaded and killed in those circumstances, while 289 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: their counterparts from other countries have been negotiated out. But 290 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: we are now in a position where you have a 291 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: president who's negotiating hostages or prisoner releases when they are 292 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: taken by nation states. And there is a really big 293 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: question to ask, is that good policy for the United States. 294 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: As much as everybody wants these Americans who are unlawfully 295 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: detained to come home, you also don't want to encourage 296 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: violence against other Americans abroad, of course, But you know, 297 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: there's there's sometimes a difference between good policy and good politics. Rick, 298 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: which one is this? Well, I think it's a probably 299 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: a little bit of both. Look, I mean, you're you're 300 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: limited by the resources you have, right, I mean, the 301 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: last thing we want to do is get in a 302 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: situation where we start incarcerating Russians with the intent to 303 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: be able to trade them. This escalates, and this is 304 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: obviously a game that you know, we're always gonna lose 305 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: because we believe in freedom and countries like Russia are oppressive. 306 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Jennie Schanzan are just getting started. Will 307 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: reassemble the panel next to talk about some of the contours. 308 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: What about Paul Wheeland by the way, we'll get into 309 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: some of this next and reaction as well from the 310 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: White House to this very criticism. It's the fastest hour 311 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: in politics. Joe Matthew and Washington. This is Bloomberg. This 312 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg, So no with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 313 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: President Biden says he will continue to pursue the release 314 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: of Paul Whalen, who was deteamed four years ago in Russia, 315 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: now living in a prison colony. As we discussed with 316 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: Tom Firestone there. It's something we heard about this, of 317 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: course from President Biden, but later from the White House. 318 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: We spoke on Bloomberg with John Kirby, former, of course 319 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:23,239 Speaker 1: admiral now the spokesperson for the National Security Council at 320 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: the White House, retired Admiral I should say on this 321 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: whole idea, well, what are you gonna do? Is there 322 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: something to offer or talks underway? He made clear that 323 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: talks were active, but was obviously careful to show his cars. Listen, 324 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: the Russians have not been again negotiating in good faith 325 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: for Mr Whalen, at least not right now. We want 326 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: to get to a point where those negotiations can bear fruit. 327 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: So we are going to continue to talk to the 328 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: Russians about what might make sense, what could be doable, 329 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: and then see if it's doable on our side as well. 330 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: So those discussions are ongoing, they're very active, but I 331 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: think it's probably best if we don't we don't discuss 332 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: all the details in public. David Wheelan not so hopeful. Uh. 333 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: This is Paul's twin brother and says today he's losing 334 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: hope in the efforts to ever get Paul home, but 335 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: he's not giving up, just not feeling it today here 336 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: he is. It doesn't really give me a lot of hope, 337 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: um that there's a likely exchanged in Paul's future or 338 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: his freedom. I think it's it's disappointing in that sense 339 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: that we don't really have any clear way to get 340 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: Paul home. It's reassembled the panel Jennie Chanzano and Rick 341 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: Davis with this genie. You know, a lot of people 342 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: thought they might be released together. And I think that's 343 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: why there was an expectation that, you know, if Britney 344 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,959 Speaker 1: Grinder comes home, Paul Whalen will as well. It's kind 345 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: of complicating the view and the ability to celebrate Grinder's 346 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: release for some people. Uh, how does the White House 347 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: manage this when the family is speaking openly about it 348 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: and you know he was left behind. Yeah, it is. 349 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: I mean you just feel for these families. And you know, 350 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: Brittney Grinder's wife spoke so beautifully and eloquently today about 351 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: you know, not just Brittany, but also the other people detained, 352 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 1: including Paul Whaland You've got to give her so much 353 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: credit for keeping the focus on them. But the reality is, 354 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: and we heard the presidents say it today. The Russians 355 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: value him differently. He's been accused of spying, He's been 356 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: charged with espionage. And the question is, and why his 357 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: twin brother and family feel so let down and discouraged 358 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: by everything? Is who is left to trade with? They 359 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: asked for a prisoner that they said was a spy, 360 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: the United States claim we don't have. Then they asked 361 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: for somebody incarcerated in Germany. You know, who could you 362 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: trade for Paul Whalen is the question at this point. 363 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: But I would just say one thing to keep note 364 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: of is Putin seems to feel that this gives him 365 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: some legitimacy on the international stage, and that may be 366 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: an opening for the US to continue to negotiate with him. 367 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's a it's a small bit of optimism there, 368 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: but it does seem like this has given him, you know, 369 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: something to celebrate, if you can call it that, at 370 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,239 Speaker 1: a time when he's seen as an international pariah. Yeah. Right, 371 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: Is the White White House handling at least the messaging 372 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: around Paul Whalen properly? Rick? You know, look, I mean 373 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: I think he's in the narrative trying to talk about 374 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,239 Speaker 1: him as a part of this, Um, I think they 375 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: moved out early. When you say anything announcement came, well, 376 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: they can say that they're still trying, right and that 377 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,479 Speaker 1: they didn't leave him out of the narrative. When Brittney 378 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: Grinder was announced, they said, you know, but we're still 379 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: working on Paul Whalen. Uh, And I think that's that 380 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: probably the best they can do. You don't want to 381 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: get into details of you know, what would ultimately result 382 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: in a release and how hard. But look, I've got 383 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: a lot of faith in the people who spend all 384 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: their time, you know, trying to get these kinds of 385 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: problems solved. And and look, I'm I'm I'm also reassured 386 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: that Paul Whalen, you know, a Marine, is a tough guy, 387 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: and that Marines put out tough guys. And if there's 388 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: one person, uh that that you've got to sort of 389 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: put on your shoulders, it's it's gonna be Paul Whalen 390 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: in the future. And so hopefully, as Genie points out, 391 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: there are other ways other countries that have vested interests, yeah, 392 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 1: and or prisoners from Russia that maybe could be employed 393 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: to to help seek his release. So uh, look, I 394 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: mean I trust the government's doing everything they can, and 395 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: I think they're talking about it, which keeps the pressure 396 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: on Putin. Uh and uh and we'll see. But you know, look, 397 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: I mean, you can't assume Putin is going to act 398 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: like a rational individual, right, He's only going to act 399 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,719 Speaker 1: in things that are good for him. There's no impetus 400 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: on his part to do something that will actually make 401 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,479 Speaker 1: him appear better in the Western world or garner favor 402 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: with the United States. It's just amazing. Uh. So let's 403 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: get into the y here and why now? Because this offer, 404 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: we've talked about it more than once. It's been on 405 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 1: the table for a long time. So why did Vladimir 406 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: Putin finally see Oh yeah, we'll do that. We'll send 407 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: the basketball player home if you return the merchant of Death, 408 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: as he's called Victor Boot. Mark Esper talked about this 409 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 1: as well today on Balance of Power with David Weston. 410 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: Listen to his suggestion, we know that Vladimir Putin is 411 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: running out of men, material, ammunition, and weapons, and if, 412 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: if somehow Victor Boot has a special skill in the 413 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: relationships to help get these types of things from other 414 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 1: countries such as North Korea, Iran elsewhere, then maybe it 415 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: helps his his tactical game plan in Ukraine. So we 416 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 1: don't know. That's what I want to know is why 417 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: he cut this deal? Now? Okay, so now we're getting 418 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: a little deeper genie into why people are concerned about 419 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: national security implications here. Uh, you've got to think that 420 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: we're watching this guy. We must have a satellite dedicated 421 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: to him. Uh does what kind of what kind of 422 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 1: liability does this bring to the White House potentially if 423 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: we're talking about him procuring weapons for Vladimir Putin for 424 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: the war in Ukraine. Yeah, I mean you heard this 425 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: from several quarters today and Mark Esper, you know, just 426 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 1: reflected what is the big concern here, In addition to 427 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: the fact other Americans may be vulnerable, is the fact 428 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: that why was Putin so focused on getting him out? 429 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: And it hasn't just been during this war, It's been 430 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: for a long time. And the suggestion is, of course 431 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: that what does Russia need more than anything right now? 432 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: They need arms and he this guy has context. They 433 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: may be a long time ago, he has the means 434 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 1: to do. This is the concern, and this could be 435 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: something that Russia could plan. Putin could could put could 436 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: plan on. We don't know for certain though, and that's 437 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: one of the things about this. We don't know a 438 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: lot about this deal. Another thing we don't know is 439 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: the role of the UAE, the role of Saudi Arabia. 440 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: We know that the President of UA went to Russian 441 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: October told Putin he would get involved, and that's why 442 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: this got done today. But we do need to know 443 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: more and deserve to know more about the role of 444 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: the UAE and Saudi Arabia in this kind of deal, 445 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: along with why Putin was so intent on getting him out. 446 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: Are you worried about this reck or does this sound 447 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: Hollywood to you? Uh? Look, I mean he's a bad guy. 448 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: He's going to continue to do bad things. I don't 449 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 1: think our justice system is going to rehabilitate him. And 450 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 1: uh and so are there really like bad guy stores though, 451 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: where you can go buy weapons? I mean, is that 452 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 1: is that? Is that a real promise for Vladimir Putin? Well? Look, 453 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: I mean if there weren't, then then you wouldn't have, uh, 454 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: somebody named the Merchant of Death hanging around. So by definition, 455 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 1: sure you can go into the dark corners of the 456 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: world and find people who will sell you anything, and 457 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,719 Speaker 1: if that includes a bomb or a gun, or a 458 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: tank or a submarine, you can get it. And this 459 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: guy was in that business. Now you know whether or 460 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: not he's current enough, or whether or not Vamir Putin 461 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: really needs his help. Frankly, he's got a state to 462 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: state relationship with Iran. It's giving him a lot of 463 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 1: weaponry right now that are killing a lot of good Ukrainians. 464 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: And so I wouldn't think a bunch of a K 465 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: forty sevens are gonna compete with the drones that he's 466 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: getting from Iran. And uh so, you know, I think, 467 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: you know, Secretary Asper is probably right in that he 468 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: gives a sort of dark corner of activity to to Putin. 469 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: But I wouldn't overplay it. I mean, the war isn't 470 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: going to turn on you know, Vladimir or Victor boot right. Well, 471 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: all you need is one story, though about an American 472 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 1: being killed by some North Korean weapon that's somehow tied 473 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: to him, Genie. It changes all the politics of this story, 474 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: that's right. And let's not forget he was sentenced to 475 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: twenty five years for conspira to kill Americans and supporting terrorism, 476 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 1: amongst other things. This is, to Rick's point, a very 477 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: bad guy, and people should read the book Merchant of 478 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: Death or see the movie with Nicholas Cage, which granted 479 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: was fictitious, but it tells you just how deep and 480 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: dark this was in terms of his deals, which of 481 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,479 Speaker 1: course he says is all wrong and misreported and he 482 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: did nothing. But the reality is that this was a 483 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: really really tough decision for the Biden administration. And the 484 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: other reality wave to keep in mind is, and you 485 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: were just talking to Tom Firestone about this, there are 486 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: many other Americans being held, including you know this this 487 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: teacher that he was talking about, held in Russia sentenced 488 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: to fourteen years sixty one years old Mark Vogel. There 489 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 1: are others. And the question is at what point do 490 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: we stop these negotiations? If ever, are you only negotiated 491 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: out off your famous Are you only negotiated out if 492 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: your family is able to get your name in the news? 493 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: Mark Fogel largely forgotten to a certain extent, amongst many others. 494 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 1: So that's been a lot of the criticism. It's exactly right. 495 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: The language that the genie just used is coming from 496 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 1: a lot of the critics. Ricla Hey Okay, you got 497 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: the celebrity out, too bad. Not everyone's a celebrity. Does 498 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: that have anything actually to do with the calculation that 499 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin made? Does he care? Uh? You know, I 500 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: don't think we do. But I definitely think Vladimir Putin 501 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: if he believes that he's going to get some kind 502 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 1: of lift out of the Western media or out of 503 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: the Western governments that are really down on him right now, 504 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: and they're and they're and they're making that known to him. Sure, 505 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: you know that extra element of celebrity may may enter 506 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: in his thinking. But but again, I mean, Vladimir Putin, 507 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: you really have to question what his motivations are for anything, right, 508 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: and he's he's is he of sound mind? Uh? You know? 509 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: Does he make mistakes right? Or does he make decisions rationally? Uh? 510 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: You know, you really you really don't know. And so 511 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: to to sort of project into him what you think 512 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: his rationale for bringing Brittany Grinder out right now, he 513 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: shouldn't have had her to begin with, and and and 514 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,360 Speaker 1: the pressure shouldn't be on the wise, but like the 515 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 1: fact that he did it, and and that should make 516 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: him a common criminal in the world. Great insights from 517 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Jeannie Chanzano on an important day here 518 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: for geopolitics, and god knows, we are awfully happy to 519 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,239 Speaker 1: hear that Britney Griner is going home. Coming up. We're 520 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: gonna go to Capitol Hill find out today about this 521 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: new deal on defense spending that removes the COVID vaccine 522 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: mandate for the military. This is Bloomberg So Long with 523 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. So the House cleared the 524 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: Pentagon money today, approving a defense authorization measure, the n 525 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: d A A you hear us talk about to boost 526 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: the president's National security spending request by forty five billion dollars. 527 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: But interesting here there was, of course a major caveat 528 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: for Republicans. It repeals the Pentagon's COVID vaccine mandate, which 529 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 1: is not something that the Secretary of Defense wanted or 530 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that of how the Pentagon feels about this, 531 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,479 Speaker 1: but he's obviously speaking for the Defense Department. The House 532 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: voted three eight. That gets it done. Uh And as 533 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: I understand here, this is a deal between the House 534 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 1: of the Senate's going to pass with bipartisan support in 535 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: the Senate. So what does the president do about this one. Obviously, 536 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: he wants the vaccine mandate. The Secretary of Defense has 537 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: made that clear. Came up today in the White House 538 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: Press briefing. Here's Press Secretary Karine John Pierre. So, what 539 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: we think happened here is a Republicans and Congress have 540 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: decided that they rather rather fight against the health and 541 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: well being of our troops than protecting them. And we 542 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: believe that it is a mistake. What we saw, what 543 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: we saw happen on the n d A as it 544 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: relates to the vaccine mandate. We're joined by Jack Fitzpatrick Bloomberg, 545 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: government Congress reporter who really specializes in the whole budgeting 546 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: and appropriations process. These guys are like so deep into 547 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: what they call it a props right, Jack, appropriate monkey 548 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: as you are, so, Um, this is going to pass 549 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: the Senate, right, this looks very good in the Senate. Um. 550 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: The comments from the White House, we're almost a little surprising. Obviously, 551 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: you know that they don't want to block their own 552 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: policy regarding vaccine requirements. Um, but you know, if the 553 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:22,479 Speaker 1: White House doesn't threaten a veto explicitly, then is something 554 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: with this level of bipartisan support negotiated in Congress has 555 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: a ton of momentum, so it looks good in the Senate. 556 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: If if Biden really wanted to try to hit the 557 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: brakes on, it would have had to have acted early 558 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: and decisively. They need to put out a veto threat explicitly, 559 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: with which they have not done. And that was the 560 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: vaccine requirement issue is something that seemed to have been 561 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: put on the trading block essentially where Democrats could, uh, 562 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: they didn't want to include that, but maybe they get 563 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: something else from it. It gets thrown into the bigger 564 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: pot of issues negotiated, so it seems to be acceptable 565 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 1: to many Democrats, So it's a done deal, then, I 566 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: guess I mean the the alternative, Jack, and you can 567 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: explain this to our listeners, would be a continuing resolution 568 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: that would basically handcuff the Pentagon of the same spending 569 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: it's already had last year and give them very little 570 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: flexibility for things like Ukraine. Well, the unfortunate thing for 571 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: the military and for lawmakers, that is still possible. The 572 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: Defense Authorization Measure sets policies for how the military prioritizes 573 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: certain purchases. That kind of thing. That's what legally institutes 574 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: a pay raise for members of the military. But if 575 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: they don't then pass a subsequent appropriations measure that is 576 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: what actually has the money to fund those So an 577 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: authorization measure measure without a subsequent aligned appropriations bill is 578 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if you could say entirely pointless, but 579 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: like cent pointless, and these policies would not end up 580 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: being enacted unless they can get that appropriations deal. Well, 581 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: this is where it gets complicated, obviously, and we've been 582 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: talking about at it with some lawmakers. You're on the program, 583 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: you talk about it all day long. And what's what 584 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: is likely? Do they do they get a short term 585 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: cr do they get a year long CRS? Really and 586 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: they start time for an omnibus? What's the what's reality? 587 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: There is probably still time for an omnibus. Currently, the 588 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: funding deadline is December sixteenth, that's next Friday. There's probably 589 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: not time for them to do it by then, but 590 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: there's some discussion about a very short term stop gap 591 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: measure to bump that back. I've heard a week long floated, 592 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: so this could be right up until the Friday before Christmas. 593 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: On the tree, there's some Republicans saying, hey, kick it 594 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: into January February, when we're going to control the House 595 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: and that will give us more leverage. So there's a 596 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: debate going on about exactly how long they kick it. Um. 597 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: It is possible for them to come together and agree 598 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: to an omnibus government funding bill that would support this 599 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: authorization bill for defense and other things, uh, potentially before Christmas. 600 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: But when Christmas approaches, that's when the pressure really gets on, 601 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: and it seems they're both kind of waiting to see 602 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: if the other side will slip as we get closer 603 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: and closer to the real deadline. We've spoken before about 604 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: the Safe Banking Act, which has passed the House like 605 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: fifteen times but never gets across to the Senate and 606 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: never gets to the President. This would be the legislation 607 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: that allows cannabis companies to use banking services and I 608 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: don't know, maybe even list their stocks, but actually get 609 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: you know, to be able to take loans and not 610 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: do all of their business in cash. At Pearl Mutter, 611 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: the Congressman has been behind this and they keep attaching 612 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: it to the n D A A and it always 613 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: gets dropped. And Mitch McConnell was taking a victory lap 614 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: for that one here he is on the floor. This 615 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: India is not getting dragged down about unrelated liberal nonsense. 616 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: Good smart policies were kept in an unrelated nonsense you're 617 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: financing for illegal drugs. It was kept out. I'm glad 618 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: this Democrat led Congress find they realized that defending America 619 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: is a basic governing duty. There he is in the 620 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: fire on the Senate floor. He indicated as well, though, Jack, 621 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: that that would be the same argument for overall funding 622 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: if there is any chance of getting an omnibus. Is 623 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: this is this safe banking legislation just dead in the water. 624 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's entirely dead in the water, because, 625 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: as we've discussed, there's another must pass vehicle, so supporters 626 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: can try to attach that to an omnibus. But if 627 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: you hear Mitch McConnell say very clearly I don't want 628 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: that attached to must pass legislation, it's a very very 629 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: bad sign. Uh. There's a lot of negotiating still going 630 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: on on the Appropriations Measure to fund the government, but 631 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: that has to get support from Republican leadership in the Senate, 632 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: So it may be a matter of how determined McConnell 633 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: is but that statement seems to be a very very 634 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: bad sign for the State Banking Act. It's going to 635 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: be a working Christmas or what then? You know, Richard Shelby, 636 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: the top Republican negotiator on government funding, has said, yeah, 637 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: we could be here right around Christmas, maybe Christmas Eve. Again, 638 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: they kind of treat the Friday before Christmas as the 639 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: functional deadline because that's when they really passionately want to 640 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: leave and have their work done. But they're you know, 641 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: they're talking about setting another deadline back very close to that, 642 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: and again the pressure builds as you get close to 643 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,919 Speaker 1: the holidays. There's some frustration building, and this does seem 644 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 1: to be a game of chicken where uh, lawmaker's holiday 645 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: plans are sort of the thing at threat here. Now 646 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: this is there. So there's a line about jet fumes. 647 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure that that will be hearing soon. Jack. What 648 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: else gets done then? If anything? Or is the is 649 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: all the time focused on the mighty appropes for the 650 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: rest of this calendar, you're the rest of this congress. 651 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: Um they can attach things to that appropriations package, that's 652 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: probably mostly all that's going to happen. Uh, And it's 653 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: tough to say exactly what gets attached, because you know, 654 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,280 Speaker 1: you've probably heard the discussions about maybe a child tax 655 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: credit intension and the R and D tax measures that 656 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: has quieted down a bit lately, that kind of gets 657 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: shuffled into the back room talks amongst a few very 658 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: very important lawmakers. So it's tough to predict um. But 659 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: really the last train out of the station is that 660 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: government funding package, and anything you want to add to that, 661 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: you've got to sort of attach it to that vehicle. 662 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: So there could be the Safe Banking Act, it's not 663 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: entirely dead. There could be some tax credit stuff. I'm 664 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,280 Speaker 1: a little skeptical, but really there's gonna be one big 665 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: package coming, and anyone who has a bill they want 666 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: to get enacted is going to try to attach it 667 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: to that measure. Great conversation, Jack, Thank you so much. 668 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: We always get smarter when we speak with Jack Fitzpatrick. 669 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:46,240 Speaker 1: No stranger to this broadcast Bloomberg Government Congress reporter. Something actually, 670 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: something else happens today on Capitol Hill that you might 671 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: have heard. It happened in the House passing the bill 672 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: to protect same sex marriage. That means it goes to 673 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: the President's desk. We'll talk about it. Next, This is Bloomberg. 674 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg, So Long with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 675 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: With history made in the House of Representatives. Today we 676 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 1: bring you to the Speaker's rostrum as Nancy Pelosi presided, 677 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: holding the gabble there. One of the final acts is 678 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: the House votes. Well, you can listen to it as 679 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: it happened on this same sex marriage bill that codifies 680 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: the protections for same sex and interracial marriage. Listen on 681 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: this boat. The yates are two hundred and fifty eight. 682 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: The names are one sixty nine present one. The motion 683 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 1: is adopted. Very happy about that. Once she got emotional 684 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 1: as she was reading the tally there and they held 685 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 1: an enrollment ceremony as they call it, after the sort 686 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: of formalized the fact that it passed. It's going to 687 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: the President's desk now, and you know who showed up 688 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: is Congressman bar Any Frank. Here he is. I was 689 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: here for the birth shall I am very grateful to 690 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: be able to be here for the funeral. And it's 691 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: kind of it's kind of a New Orleans moment. We 692 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: are tuting our horns for the funeral. A much happier 693 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: occasion than the birth. We are touting our horns for 694 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: the funeral the former congressman, of course from Massachusetts, first 695 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: openly gay member of Congress. With some final thoughts on 696 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: this from our panel, Genie Chanzano and Rick Davis. Uh, 697 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: it's an important moment, Genie, is something that actually a 698 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: lot of people take for granted, but is finally codified 699 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 1: in the law. That's right. And you know, to hear 700 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: Barney Frank back on Capitol Hill after he retired in 701 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: you know, and really uh, you know, paying tribute to 702 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: Tammy Baldwin, the first openly gay senator who really pushed 703 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: this legislation through the Senate. It was quite moving. And 704 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,320 Speaker 1: then of course Nancy Pelosi, one of her first acts 705 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: in Congress had to do with eating against discrimination of 706 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: people with HIV AIDS gay people. She talked about that 707 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: in an op edge she wrote today and it's her 708 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: final act likely as Speaker of the House, and it, 709 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, really tells you how much is going to 710 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: change in the next month as we you know us, 711 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: you're in a new Republican House. Well, you know, we 712 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: toot our horns here New Orleans style. We're going to 713 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: have to put the second line together here as we 714 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: mark the end of the line for DOMA, noting that 715 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: codifying same sex marriage, Yeah, let's get you right in 716 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: the French quarter here, codifying same sex marriage is supported 717 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: by more than sevent of America's but a minority opposed it, 718 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: typically on religious grounds. Is this progress despite Republican opposition? Rick? Sure? Yeah? 719 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: Ten years ago you wouldn't even be talking about this 720 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: is a serious opportunity, and so you know, we we 721 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: can be also reminded that part of what has led 722 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,359 Speaker 1: to this moment is the Supreme Court, you know, by 723 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: many people's estimation over reaching on the Dodd decision and 724 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,839 Speaker 1: forcing people to rethink what they thought was established law 725 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: and all these things. So the codification by Congress adds 726 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: a layer of protection for people you know who care 727 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: about this issue and and others. So, um, you know, 728 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: it's uh, it's the it's it's the child today of 729 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 1: a long process. Isn't that right? Well, it's history now, 730 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: Jennie and Rick Davis, and I appreciate your insights on that. 731 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: I was called out recently by a fellow journalist on 732 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: Twitter for not challenging one of our guests who described 733 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: this issue as fraught, and I didn't that day because 734 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: it has been fraught for so many. I see that 735 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: as the father of an lgbt Q child, and like you, 736 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: I'm guessing someone with a lot of family and friends 737 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 1: who are lgbt Q and have had to worry about 738 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: this until now. And so we salute the progress today 739 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,399 Speaker 1: in Washington, a place that brings a lot of good 740 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: news and sometimes a lot of bad news. But we 741 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: do like to mark this when it happens as we 742 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: take a little trip down the street here in New Orleans. 743 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: Let's hear that justin that sounds good. Thanks for spending 744 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: time with us today on the fastest hour in politics. 745 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 1: As we raise our glasses to this one, I'll meet 746 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: you back here tomorrow with the best panel in the business. 747 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: And again, if you showed up late, don't forget to 748 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: subscribe to the podcast. It's called Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew. 749 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:35,760 Speaker 1: This is Bloomhood. Everybody put street