WEBVTT - Best of Part 2 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:04.080 Welcome to River Cafe Table four, a production of iHeartRadio 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:08.360 and Adam II Studios. 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:11.840 Over the last year, I've been lucky enough to sit 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.040 down with forty six guests at River Cafe Table four. 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.840 We've talked about food and family, taste and memory. We've 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:22.280 read recipes and swaps stories of dining out around the world, 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.799 from the grandest Michelin start restaurants to canteens, bars and 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:34.520 market cafes. The restaurant I know best is, of course, 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.840 the River Cafe, and so to begin this episode, I'm 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.880 stepping behind the pass to talk to executive chefs Sean 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:46.320 Winowen and Joseph Travelli, friends and colleagues. We've been cooking 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:53.080 together for over twenty years. This is just about how 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:56.520 immediate your performance is judged in a restaurant. 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:59.200 Chef's a judge as soon as they walk into the kitchen. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.720 Judge a chef by the chef's trousers they wear even 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:06.600 or if they come in a jacket that's not clean 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.640 or tied neatly, And how you present yourself before you've 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.360 even picked up your knife, which people are judging you 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.800 by your knife quietly even though I don't believe in 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.440 the what your knife says about you, per se. But 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:21.360 a lot of chefs will just have a little look 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:23.920 at someone's knife before they've even chopped anything. 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:27.440 When a new chef comes. When you've interviewed someone, and 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:29.160 you know, I always used to say, what books do 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:33.560 you read? Michelle Rue used to say, make me an omelet, 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.680 But what do you look for in terms of somebody 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:39.160 coming for a job here? 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:41.720 If we interview people together, that we try and put 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.839 them off because some people come with they have maybe 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:47.400 a law degree or they've done a degree in dark 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:51.600 medicine y we have, and we're like, okay, so you know, 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.320 you have to stand up for a living. You know, 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.840 you have to work nights, you have to work weekends. 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.000 It's shift work. If you love cooking, you can always 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.240 cook at home. And then if you're really, really, really 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.000 really really set on it, then you know, because some 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.200 people think, my god, you could earn a fortune being 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:09.919 a lawyer. I look for people that I think will 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:12.440 fit into the team because if someone wants to learn, 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:13.840 we can teach anyone to cook. 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.239 We also talked about Rose Gray. We founded the River 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.880 Cafe together in nineteen eighty seven. She was my closest 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:24.880 friend and a brilliant cook. 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:29.880 I remember meeting Rose on my first day and she 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:34.200 said something I always quote still said, I'll teach you 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:36.840 to slice a piece of preciuto the perfect thickness. I'll 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:40.399 teach you to cook pilotti beans perfectly. I'll teach you 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:44.200 the art are simple cooking. And I remember thinking that 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:48.679 sounds easy, but actually that is the essence of the 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.120 River Cafe, isn't it. Simplicity and the understanding of simplicity, which, 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.880 as I've worked with Ruthie over the years, I've never 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.840 understood it more than watching you and how you take 0:02:59.000 --> 0:02:59.960 one thing more away. 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.840 I remember one time we'd had a huge lunch in Tuscany, 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:08.800 and then we drove to Piermonte and we went out 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.799 to dinner and there was I remember there was again 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.799 a grand dinner and I sat next to it, and 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.200 I remember when the fifth course came out, I just 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:24.280 started to cry. I literally started, I can't take this anymore. 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.840 That's too much, and she was just, you know, there 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.919 she was, come on, Rogers, Rogerina, she used to call me. 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:31.280 Next. 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.640 She was very much her own person, I think in 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.600 terms of what she chose to do and fiercely loyal 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:39.560 and fiercely proud. 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:39.840 I was. 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.280 You know, we used to get into a taxi in 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.080 Paddington in the early early days and she just said 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.880 to the driver River Cafe, and I say, I hope 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:50.800 this guy knows where the River Cafe those days going 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:52.320 to be rude, and she was. 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:53.920 Really, she's such a character. 0:03:56.680 --> 0:04:00.600 I met Rose Gray in New York Tracy in the eighties, 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:04.920 and I remember going to Nell's Campbell, who's friend of mine, 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.880 Australian knock at her nightclub, and about three in the morning, 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.120 she said, Darling Litsky Row, are you hungry? And you 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:14.400 think three in the morning, but yes, of course I 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.479 am nell Lytsky. This is wonderful. Lady's gonna make us 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:21.520 something to eat. And Rose was so quiet, and she 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.080 started bringing out these little samples of things that were 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:24.960 so divine. 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.120 I'm like, wow, Rose, amazing. 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:30.359 And we just all sat and talked and you know, 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.160 were saying those things like you should have your own 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:35.840 restaurant here, You're brilliant. 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.240 That's how it all started. She was with Nell and 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:44.200 it Nell's in New York, and then when Rose decided 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.760 to come back, that's when we started the River Cafe. 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:49.320 I called her up and said, I think there's this 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:51.480 little site in the middle of nowhere. She would go 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:53.800 have a look, and we did and the rest is 0:04:54.120 --> 0:05:02.760 ton of history. Over the forty eight episodes of River 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.839 Cafe Table Before, many guests have also shared memories of 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:10.560 eating at the River Cafe. Here are too. Edwin nfil 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:15.520 editor of British Folk, but first film director and actor 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:16.680 Maggie Gillanol. 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.080 I kept texting you and saying, oh, could one more 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.039 person come? Oh, could just one more person come? Could 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.240 I you know, and don't you always kind of want 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.200 to say yes, right, like yes, like of course you 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:31.000 can bring your boyfriend. This is interesting. 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:31.240 It was. 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.360 It really was a special night. And then I remember 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.080 like we weren't sure. We're like, oh, is this enough past? 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:39.239 And I was like, no, no, no, it's not. Let's 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.239 get another two podta. 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:41.600 You know. 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:43.800 I remember that night that you were there, and I 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.800 remember the feeling of it that you were. You know, 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:51.320 you were so happy and you were so wanting to give. 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.120 We were there to do press for the lost daughter. 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.159 We all had to wake up at like six o'clock 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.480 in the morning the next day and go do press 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.080 all day and then go to the opening night and 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:05.400 we had all eaten all this food, drank tons of 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:09.560 wine and champagne and chocolate cake. And I was thinking 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:14.840 the next day about like consequences, what's worth it and 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.680 what isn't you know? And I was like, this feeling 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:22.560 I have today is totally worth it. I'm not blindly 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:27.000 having this dinner and drinking wine and you know, eating 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:30.840 all this delicious food. I understand that I will sacrifice 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.800 something the next day. If I'd gone to sleep at 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.240 nine and had green juice or something, I would feel different. 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:41.520 But what it gives me in exchange, I felt it 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.880 was worth it. 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:48.320 It was a really muchical, even one of my one 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:52.159 of the truly much cold evenings of my life, because 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:55.840 remember the issue came out. It was a love story 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.200 really to Great Britain, the country that sort of took 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.240 my family and took me in, and we celebrated everybody 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:07.000 from Naomi Campbell to Steve McQueen to Cake Moss and 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:08.400 we had a duel on the cover. 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.360 It was a beautiful night and I think people, you know, again, 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:17.120 over food overhind the food you wanted to be sharing plates, 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:21.760 you wanted people to have antipasti. I remember something about 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:23.800 that night, which was we were talking about whether we 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.080 could do ravioli as a premi, and there was a 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.560 conversation saying, well, you know, fashion people don't eat carps, 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.760 they won't eat pasta. Nobody's going to eat the ravioli. 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.720 Not only did they eat it, they had seconds, gongs, 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:41.200 and thirds and put on more ravioli on the plate. 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.400 Every conversation of River Cafe Table for ended with the 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:56.280 same question, what is your comfort food? Food is susten 0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:00.880 it's politics, culture, a journey of discovery. It is also 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:06.600 comfort in love. Here is Jude Law on food family life, 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:08.480 and they art feeding your children. 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.640 I enjoyed giving the love of it. I enjoyed looking 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.560 after them. I always say this to friends who are 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:19.160 expecting children, that you know, the satisfaction you get when 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.800 you're about to go to bed and your kids all eaten, 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.720 they're washed, they're in bed, they're safe. It's just such 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:29.240 a fantastic feeling. It's a greatest sense of satisfaction and 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.840 contentment that you've got there another day and they're all right. 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.240 You've eaten all of that. And that was an important 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:40.839 part of bringing them up to me and the adventurousness. 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:44.040 I suppose, because again it reflects I don't know. 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.000 You know, people go oh, no, I don't. 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:47.120 Like that, and you think, well, have you tried it? 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.560 You know, that was always that's always the first question 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:51.760 to the kids. And you think, no, just try it, 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:54.920 you know, and you see them suddenly thinking, oh, actually, yeah, 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.240 it's an octopus. You think, yeah, go and try a 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:57.679 little bit. 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:58.760 It's really good. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:04.920 Food also means joy and celebration. Austin Butler is the 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.640 star of Baz Luhrmann's film Elvis. 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:09.760 There's a small group of us and it was the 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:13.160 night that we wrapped and we we just we danced 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.240 until the sun came up. We just put on vinyl 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:18.480 records and we just danced and we ate oysters and 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.480 we just we just lived life. It was like this 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.240 feeling of letting our hair down. And then the sun 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.640 started to come up and Baz looked out and he 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.720 lived across the street from the sea, and he said, 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.040 should we go swim in the ocean right now? And 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:35.760 it's like five in the morning now, and we swam 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:39.200 in the ocean and so the sun's rising. And I 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:41.839 was gonna not go that night as well, and I said, 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:43.319 I said, Baz, I can't believe I was gonna go 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:47.360 to sleep tonight. And he started singing nessa dorm and 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:50.040 he goes no sleep tonight and he went back to 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.559 the shore, and I kind of took a second from 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.839 myself in the ocean where it's just me, and as 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.280 I sort of slowly walked back the shore, I look 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.720 at Baz and he's holding a speaker above his head 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:03.480 like John Cusack can say anything, and he's playing nessa doortermont, 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:07.400 the Pavaratti version, and it's blaring at like five point 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.120 thirty in the morning now on the beaches of the 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.520 Gold Coast. And then we made breakfast. 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:15.280 What was that we made? 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:18.199 We looked in the refrigerator and we thought, okay, we 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:21.240 got eggs, we got asparagus, we got some spinach there, 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.000 we got some tomatoes, we got some parmesan cheese. What 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:25.640 can we do? And so we kind of just made 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:29.160 this breakfast. And that's one of the most glorious memories 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.199 of my life, was like after we finished this thing 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.120 that was so terrifying and daunting, and that we gave 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.360 it everything we could. And then then we just sat 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:39.120 there and as the morning sun sort of laid down 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.120 on us and ate that breakfast, and it was so glorious. 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:44.400 Don't tell anybody I told you this. 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:48.080 Yeah, this is Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.520 memories of a college ice cream heist and food as 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.080 an act of rebellion. We used to go at night. 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.600 They know now years later they know, but we used 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.079 to go, like in the middle of the night, down 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:06.000 to the dining room and break into the freezer to 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.679 get ice cream. Now they was locked, so you can 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.679 only lift it a little bit and put the scooper 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:14.360 in there and pull it out. 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.080 We better not tell certain members of the house about 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:19.600 this exactly. 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.560 It's hard to tell a flavor and the dark and 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:24.800 the dark, and you could tell if it's chocolate or not, 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.560 but peach, strawberry and the rest of that kind of 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:34.400 comes together. And sometimes we would order pizza so that 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.240 the guard, we'd say the guard, somebody would go talk 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:40.959 to the garden, said I ordered pizza. I'm waiting here 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:42.959 for the pizza wall. We would go down and steal 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:47.319 the ice screams, steal the ice cream. 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:51.720 And so your college days were spent stealing ice stealing 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:56.280 ice cream, icically, but food isn't only a subject for 0:11:56.320 --> 0:12:00.560 funny stories. On many episodes of River Cafe Tape before, 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:05.000 we also heard about the politics of food inequality and 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:09.880 the desperation of hunger. Christian Amanpor told me about her 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:14.480 experience of reporting from Sarajevo in the nineteen nineties. 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.600 The very very first winter under siege, and it sounds 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:19.760 like a cliche, and I didn't even believe it till 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:23.560 I saw it, But literally, people were foraging, honestly, trying 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:27.240 to get dandelion leaves and brasses and things like that 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.280 that they might be able to boil up into something. 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:32.800 Some of them may have had little vegetable gardens with 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:36.840 lettuce or spinach or whatever it was, but there was 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:41.800 no real protein. They could make bread because flower was 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:45.920 coming in eventually by the UN, but it was basic. 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.680 And you know, I just remember living in the holiday 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.840 in with all the press there. I didn't realize until 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:55.640 afterwards the managers had to pretty much bribe the besiegers 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.080 and some of the UN peacekeeping forces who came in 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:04.040 to get things like eggs. There wasn't potatoes or tomatoes 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:08.520 or anything because all the farming, all the all the 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.320 just like now in Ukraine when it's bombed all the 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.920 time and there's a scorched earth policy. 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.239 And the people of the city, yes. 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.720 Yes, they were mostly grateful for us to tell their story, 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.560 but and I have to say it is important, they 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.480 did begin to get angry. I remember them saying, you know, 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.160 turn your cameras away from us. This isn't the Sarajevo Safari. 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.120 You keep telling our stories and the world doesn't intervene, 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.440 doesn't help us. And those were very painful moments because 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.200 you did realize that they were telling the truth, that yeah, 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.040 we could go to them, talk to them, get their experiences, 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.040 see what they were trying to cook for their families, 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.319 which was pretty much nothing in their little kitchens, and 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.960 trying to survive this war, and nothing was happening to 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:53.959 help them. So then they would take it out on 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:56.440 us because we were the closest for them. Yeah, and 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.520 it was painful. That was painful. So I have no 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.880 ellue usion that we are welcomed with open arms and 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.600 we're the great saviors at all. At all. 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:07.000 We do a job. 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:10.880 If we're lucky, we tell the truth and the truth 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:15.360 gets out. And if we're very very lucky, it causes intervention. 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:20.240 It my love of food, my desire to know more 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.120 about it, has just grown. 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:24.360 This is Stanley Tucci. 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:28.040 So it's sort of all I think about, and it's 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.160 very much how I spend my time now. 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:36.520 We think about food and hunger, and it's also mental health, 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.960 and it's also physical health. And we refer just now 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:41.760 to the fact that you had cancer and that your 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:45.920 wife died of cancer. How did you see illness and 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.800 how did illness affect food for you? 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:54.160 Well, Kate went through so many different treatments, and you know, 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.360 going through chemo and radiation and all that stuff made 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.760 her very nauseous and she couldn't eat a lot at times, 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.560 and then she would recover, and then cancer would present 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.400 itself again, and then she'd go through the process again. 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:10.840 It was horrible when I went through mine because it 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.680 was an oral cancer. All the treatment was focused on 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:18.200 my mouth, so I lost everything. You don't only lose 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:22.760 your sense of taste. Your sense of taste is destroyed 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:28.000 and perverted so that everything tastes like you know what 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.480 for months and plus your mouth is so compromised and 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:37.560 so much pain. You're on pain medications and all that stuff, 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.320 and you have a feeding tube. You're trying to put 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:45.960 protein drinks through your feeding tube, which are disgusting, and 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.520 not that you're tasting them, but they're upsetting your stomach. 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.520 And then there's morphine you're putting through. It's just as 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:54.800 a nightmare. And for me, it was a real nightmare 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:59.040 because food is everything to me. It's now how most 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:03.400 of my life. And not to be able to eat properly, 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:07.440 not to be able to everything smelled horrible, tasted horrible, 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.000 and not to be able to sit and eat with 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.960 my friends and drink with my friends and cook for 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:14.640 my family, it was really really hard. 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.840 And did that come back? Obviously came back, But how 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.400 did it just come back and you embraced it? Or 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:21.120 was it slow? 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.760 It's very slow. It's still not I'm almost four years 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:31.320 out from finishing my treatments and I still last night 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:33.760 I made lamb chops. I didn't really eat them. I 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.600 can't really because you lose your saliva, so I don't 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.320 have all of my saliva. So if you don't have 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:45.040 your saliva, it's very hard to break things down. So 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.240 I eat a lot of pasta. But that's fine, That's 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:50.200 just the way it is. I'm probably at the point 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.160 now where this is about where I'm going to be. 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:57.080 I don't know how much more I will recover, But 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:02.040 it's fine. I can eat most things. I can drink wine, 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:07.240 I can have a martini slowly. It's fine. Nicroni negroni 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:07.560 is yet. 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:13.640 Yeah, you know about the nigronie. As the climate emergency deepens, 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.240 what we eat and how and where food is grown 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:22.199 has become crucial to our survival. Former Vice President of 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.480 the United States Al Gore is, as we all know, 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:29.000 passionate about food, farming and the environment. 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:35.800 Well, agriculture can be one of the biggest solutions to 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:41.080 the climate crisis. People talk about planting trees to pull 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.840 CO two back out of the atmosphere, and it's something 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:49.240 we certainly need to do, but we also need to 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.280 remember that if you look at all of the carbon 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:55.960 and every tree in the world, plus every plant in 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.600 the world, there's three times that much carbon in the 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:04.360 first ten centimeters of top soils around the world. And 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:11.000 by sharply reducing the amount of plowing and using natural 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:17.119 fertilizing techniques and natural pest control techniques and using cover 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.439 crops always keep roots in the soil don't let it 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:25.919 lie loose. Use perennials where you can use rotational grazing 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:32.919 agro forestry. These techniques can reverse the flow of global 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:37.240 warming pollution out of the soil and actually put a 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.480 large amount of CO two back in the soil. So 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:47.760 regenerative agriculture not only produces healthier foods and healthier communities, 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.720 but it also contributes to a healthier planet by becoming 0:18:52.760 --> 0:19:07.760 a key part of our arsenal in combating the climate crisis. 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.800 For Paul McCartney, the politics of food, particularly animal welfare, 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.960 is also key. He told me about a moment he 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:16.879 shared with his first wife Linda. 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.800 We were on the farm in Scotland. We had a 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:24.840 farm in a place called Campbelltown, which is south down 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:29.080 the Argyle Peninsula, south of Glasgow, so we spent quite 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.400 a bit of time there. The Beatles break up got 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.720 a bit heavy in the business scene and you just 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.600 couldn't deal with it, so we decided to just elope, 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:42.119 even though we were married. We just escaped there and 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:45.040 it was just a sheep farm. We were looking out 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:48.439 of the kitchen window one day and there were lambs. 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:51.760 It was lambing season early in spring, and the lambs 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:56.119 were gambling around so full of life, and it was like, wow, 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:59.159 this is really cool. And I always say that what 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:01.280 they seemed like they were doing, it would be about 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.840 twenty of them. They'd start at one end of the 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:07.120 field and then it'd be as if someone said let's 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:10.240 go and they all go and run to the other 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:15.280 side of the field. Let's go back. So they were 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.119 just running up and down, gambling and jumping and everything 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.399 were going. It's cute and great. Then we suddenly realized 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.520 we were eating leg of lamb. So that was when 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.480 the penny dropped and it was like yeah, yeah, leg 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.199 of lamb. Then it was just we said, you know what, 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.399 do we try and not eat meat? We try and 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.760 go veggie and in those days, of course, it was 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:41.600 actually difficult, but we decided that we'd make it a challenge. 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:45.199 It just became a fun challenge. Okay, what do you do? 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.600 So we gradually begun filling the hole in the middle 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.920 of the plate. We'd keep everything else and then we'd 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:56.320 just work on things to take the place of where 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:57.000 the meat had been. 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.760 It's funny because the very early years were actually in 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.520 Scotland and so we had a tiny little vegetable patch. 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:07.800 There Paul and Linda's daughter. The fashion design is Stella McCartney, 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:09.800 who was also a vegetarian. 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.240 And I remember we'd always get into trouble because me 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.920 and Mary would go down and pick There were always 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:18.239 like sugar snaps and carrots and we would always kind 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:20.280 of nick them and eat them before you could yield 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.000 any kind of crop off it. And then when we 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:25.120 got a bit older, we got the farm in East 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.240 Sussex and then we had like a proper vegetable patch. 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:29.600 Well, it's very touching that you say that you and 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:32.040 your sister would go and get a sugar snappy and 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.240 a carrot as rather the way somebody might take sweets 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:37.840 from the sweet cub. Know that you actually went to 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:38.120 the vest. 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:40.320 And also we had horses, so we had you know, 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:42.119 we were always with horses, so it would always be 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:45.120 right Willie the carrot and the carrot heads. So the 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:48.760 for the horses, you'd always have this journey between picking it, 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:52.040 the soil, the smell that you know, your dirty fingernails, 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.520 that kind of adventure to go out and have that process, 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:57.720 and then you'd take it up and give the you know, 0:21:57.760 --> 0:21:59.359 the carrot heads to the horse and that would be 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:01.359 like horse slow bree all over your hands, and like 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:04.040 so many different smells as well. I mean, I've worked 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:08.160 on creating perfumes, and it's so interesting how smell has 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:11.280 really been inspired by food for a lot of the 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:14.159 things that I've created. I mean, I, for example, one thing, 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.560 when you're a vegetarian, there's so few moments of kind 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:21.920 of extravagance, whereas with meat is so associated with kind 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:24.920 of well cost or you know, there's such a kind 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:27.840