WEBVTT - What Happens When the Government Thinks You're Dead? 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:03.400 Welcome to Stuff. You should know, a production of I 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:12.560 Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, I'm welcome to the podcast. 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:15.520 I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w Chuck, Brian, there's Jerry 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:20.520 over there. Jerry's not eating anything today. Chalk there is clear? 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.239 And did you just do that as a coaster? Yes, 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.000 I don't want to make a chinky sound every time, 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.960 Like okay, I thought, I don't want that. I want 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.320 this now, I get it. Did you hear that? You 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.320 didn't hear anything? No, I'm I said everyone. Josh just 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.800 folded up his notes and put his can of cola 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.159 down on that. And I've never seen you do that, 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:44.920 And I thought you were trying to preserve this cheap. 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.560 This thing is tougher than okay. So it was a 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.880 sound thing. Sure, it's it's a sound dampening technique. Can 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:55.160 look at us after all these years, just came up 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:59.280 with that up in our game. Um so, Chuck, do 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:03.279 you remember we did a Social Security number episode? Did we? 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.720 I thought, so? You don't remember that one. It was 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:08.959 one of those ones where you're like, my eyes are 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.039 going to bleed because this is so boring. But it 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:13.320 turned out to be pretty interesting. It was one of 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.360 those remember that. But we should give a little bit 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.479 of a refresher on social security numbers. Okay, yeah, here's mine. 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.280 Oh you're gonna give your your to eight seven, nine four. No, 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.839 I don't even because what if I just accidentally said 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:31.880 someone else's like made one up that? Yeah, and some 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:37.920 dudes listening, it's like, dude, how'd you know Todd? It's 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:41.880 always Todd. I don't know. So social Security numbers, get 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.160 this everybody. They first started being issued in November of 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:51.840 nine and the Social Security Administration was created to administer 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:56.000 a new deal program of federal benefits, things like welfare 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:02.760 or retirement benefits, Medicare UM. The entire reason any of 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.960 us originally were given a Social Security number was to 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:11.120 track our lifetime earnings and to um determine how much 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.799 we'd put into Social Security so that when we retired, 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.320 they could determine how much we should get out in retirement. 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:20.760 That's why everyone has a sofial security number. And because 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.120 there are nine digits UM, there's something like a billion 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:28.760 different possible combinations, and we're about halfway towards using up 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.680 the sow security numbers. Interesting but but probably gaining fast. 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.680 We are starting to gain much faster than we were before. 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.400 A good point, but we still got plenty of time. 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:42.920 But because of this um, social security numbers get retired 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:47.720 when you die, which we'll get to. But originally, when 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:50.239 when you were given social Security number, that was it. 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.240 It wasn't meant for anything else but to track your 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.880 earnings and to figure out your retirement. Right. Yeah, not 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:56.600 like when you get to go to get a haircut 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.959 basically and they ask you for your Social Security number. Yeah. 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.480 The seventies, the federal government said, okay, there's a couple 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:04.480 of other things that you should really have your sol 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:08.880 Security number for a passport, um, if you go to 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:11.360 open a bank account, that was a new one too. 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.040 I'll buy that. Um. But then, like you said, like 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:18.360 as computers came along, now everybody asks what it's become 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.480 an identifier in an authenticator And that is really bad. 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:24.320 That is not what we should be doing with social 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:29.000 Security numbers. It really not only that, but the phone 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.920 numbers and everything and addresses. It just annoys me. And 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.480 I'm not like a conspiracy guy. It's not like I think, like, oh, 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.440 what are they going to do with this? It just 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:41.040 annoys me. Well, and I can't get a haircut without provide. 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.960 I'm like, I have cash in my hand, you have scissors. 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.840 Can we just do this right? Can we do it 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.960 like Floyd style? Yeah? You know, but it annoys me. 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.760 But even if you take away the annoyance, companies have 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.880 proven time and time and time again that they're not 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.720 to be trusted protecting your so Security number because to 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.720 authenticate you saying who you are who you say you are, 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.360 they've got to have your SOI Security number on file. 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.320 And when somebody hacks into their databases, they get your 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:12.800 SOI Security number. All of your information is right there, 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.360 and it's become a real problem. But it's also become 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:20.520 a real problem living a modern life without giving out 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.480 your SO Security number. Right. So we say all this 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.760 to point out that if for some reason, you didn't 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.920 have a Social Security number any longer, it would be 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:34.919 tough to navigate life. And that actually happens to some people. Yeah, 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.920 if you've seen the movie Brazil, Oh, is it like this? 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:42.839 You never saw Brazil? It's it's sort of this in 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:48.040 a future dystopian world, but you know, basically like it's 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:52.760 it's bureaucracy at its best of someone who's you know, 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.520 dead or not dead, and the government mixes it up. 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:57.919 Is that what Brazil is about? Yeah? I did not 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.320 know that. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.800 we would have heard from people. It's a yeah, it's good, 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.080 right it is. And you should go listen to the 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:10.320 movie Crush episode on Brazil with Jonathan Colton. Okay, yeah, 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:12.320 I didn't know that one. That one slipped past me. 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.240 I wasn't talking to you, but sure, you're welcome to listen. Thanks. 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.520 I'm part of everybody. I had to go to the 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.080 Social Security Office recently to get a card because of 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:26.680 this job in our new company. Really, yeah, I had 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.960 to prove, you know whatever, that I'm alive. You didn't unemployable. 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.359 I guess you didn't. Just give him your passport. I 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:36.840 couldn't find my passport because I'm in between houses right 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.359 now and it was buried somewhere. Okay, but you do 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.640 have it because we're probably going to Toronto this year. 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:44.120 I do have it. I did find it kind of 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.159 after I went to the Social Security Office. But all 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:49.599 that was just to say that if you think the 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:53.839 d m V is a pit of despair, just go 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:56.760 to the social Security want to it's not fun. I 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:01.240 really don't want to know. So, um, okay, you can 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.559 imagine how bad it is when everything's just hunky dory 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.760 and you just need a copy of your card. That's 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.400 all you needed. Right For some people, some poor SAPs 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:14.799 out there, they are thought by the government and listed 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.400 by the government as having died. And that is a 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:22.159 big problem if you're alive. Yes, because again you need 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.800 your Social Security number for everything to start with. And 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:29.880 then secondly, because we have enough Social Security numbers to 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.960 go around, Like I said, when you die, you're so 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.320 security number gets retired with you. They hang in in 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.600 the rafters of your local NBA franchise. That's exactly right. 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:44.360 If you look really closely, they're all up there. But um, 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.360 that's that is a problem for somebody who gets listed 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:51.280 as dead on what's called the death master file. Do 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:55.240 I need to say it now? Even somebody listening to 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:57.880 the very first stuff you should know right now, they 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.680 know what you're saying. Here's a bunch good band names 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.080 in here, but death master files pretty good. So uh, 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.480 It's also called the Social Security Death Index, but death 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.840 master files way better. I think you would agree. It 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.600 depends on who you're talking to. I think genealogists typically 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.160 call it the S S d I. Everybody else calls 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.040 it the death master file. That's what I saw, you 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:19.680 know why, because they don't know how to party, or 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.440 they get their own little weird party going on. Oh yeah, 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.320 I didn't think about that. Um. Yeah, you gotta look 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.520 at people differently sometimes. I was trying to think of 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:31.960 the bumper sticker. Genealogists do it blank in the in 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:36.720 the archives. Genealogists do it with their d NA, with 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:43.840 their dead ancestors. It's two bumper stickers. Just having ellipses 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.840 had be kind of fun. So, uh, all right, where 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:49.720 were we the d MF Al right, it's it was 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:53.480 established the same time the Social Security numbers were back 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.760 in nineteen thirty six, and then it took all the 0:07:55.760 --> 0:08:00.280 way until nineteen eighty before the public could even see 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.520 this list, right right. There was a Freedom of Information 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:07.080 Act that was filed back in UM and there was 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:09.640 a lawsuit in the federal court said you know what, yeah, 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.360 this is this is public information. You have to publish this. 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:18.320 And there's actually like a master death Master file that's 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:23.280 called the New Newmandent and that's like everything, and that's 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.200 the that's the one that the death master File is 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:28.880 derived from, the public version of it is the death 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:33.160 master file, right which, when you die, there a bunch 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.000 of ways that your name can get to the s 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:40.640 s A, the Social Security Administration. Sometimes it's a funeral home. 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:45.440 Sometimes it's from like a hospital. Sometimes it's from your family, um, 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.200 because it's the family's responsibility ultimately to report it. But 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:50.840 most of the time the funeral home is the one 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:52.960 that actually does is like a service. I wouldn't have 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:57.080 known that. But I also saw, um, well, now you know, um, 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.720 there's probably some poor stuff. You should know a listener, 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.920 our condolences, who's dealing with this right now? It's your 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:09.000 responsibility to go report this to the Social Security Administration. Yeah, okay, 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:13.400 that's sad. I also saw that your bank, the postal 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:17.559 service some other randos are legally allowed to report your 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.440 death as well, so as the post off post person 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.160 to saying like I haven't picked up their mail in 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.520 like three weeks, they're dead to me, I think I 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.200 should just report this. I don't. I don't know I could. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:32.520 I could not find the procedure from that anything other 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:36.199 than a couple of good sources mentioned the postal service 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.680 as a legal place, the legal entity that can report 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.679 your death to the Feds. Alright, so why do they 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.760 want this Death Master File? Of course, if you have 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.120 paid UM, well, the government needs to know if you're 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.280 not around anymore. It's kind of that simple. There's a 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.080 couple of reasons why. Yes, they need to know, because 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.560 you get a little dough They can't have your sobsecurity 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.760 number out there. They need to know that you're deceased 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:07.360 UM because they don't want to be paying UM income 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:11.240 tax refunds if somebody starts following them fraudulently. They don't 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.480 want people opening bank accounts in your name. They want 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.560 to make sure that you're listed as dead. And so 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:19.960 that's what the Death Master File does. It kind of 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:24.000 serves as the storehouse for all the people in America 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:26.760 who have been dead basically since the sixties, but it 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.360 goes as far back as nineteen thirty six or thirty seven, 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:33.320 which is surprisingly more than a hundred million people. Yes, 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.560 but they think that there's maybe up to sixteen million 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:40.560 dead people missing from this list. It's not it's not perfect. 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:44.160 We'll spoil now. Well, I guess we should then follow 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.400 that statement by saying there are tens of thousands of 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.360 people on that list who should not be on that list, 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.719 right exactly, But before we get to there, um, this 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.880 Death master File originally was so Social Security could track 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.439 who was dead and who wasn't, so they could determine 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:01.120 who to pay Social Security Administration benefit out to the survivors. 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.760 Get this, did you know this? If you're in America 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.360 and you're the recipient, you're the survivor of somebody who 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.240 gets so Security, you get a cool two hundred and 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.240 fifty five dollars to help bury them. Yeah, that's when 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.800 I said you get a little dough that I meant little, 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.520 a little dough. Yeah, maybe like one of the fancy 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:22.480 handles on the casket would be covered by that. I 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.080 don't even think you can get cremated for two hundred dollars. 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:27.400 I don't know. I don't even think they'll leave you 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.240 in a ditch out back for two hundred dollars. A 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.880 sky BURI will cost more than that. Maybe that try 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.080 State crematorium would take your two hundred fifty dollars. But 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:40.800 that's it. Do you remember them? Oh? Sure? Yeah? Evil? 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.520 So uh like you said mistakes are made. And this 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:48.120 is where it turns slightly. Brazil. There was an investigation 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.840 in two thousand and eleven and they actually named grave mistakes, 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:56.400 which is hysterical by Scripts Howard News service. And what 0:11:56.440 --> 0:12:00.880 they did was they took uh this master file from 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:05.160 three different years two thou two thousand eleven. They created 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:09.680 a computer program to basically just compare them to see 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:13.200 what they came up with, and that they found uh third, 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.480 almost thirty two thousand living people who were listed as 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.079 decease and ninety eight or two thousand eight that were 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.840 then taken off that list after they realized that they 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:27.240 goofed up two thousand eleven. So these people had spent months, years, 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:31.360 maybe um listed as dead. And here's the problem. It's 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.520 bad enough if you go to apply for Medicare because 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:40.559 you've retired or social Security benefits and the government says denied, UM, 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.360 you're dead and you're listed as dead because as far 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.360 as the government's concerned, if you're on this, you're dead 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:51.000 to them. That's bad enough. But remember that Freedom of 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.520 Information Act UM lawsuit that opened the thing up to 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:59.560 being published publicly. The reason why that suit was filed 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.400 is because the business community said, hey, we can really 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:06.520 use that thing there. It's basically it would be like 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.640 a big do not take checks from these people list 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.880 for all dead Americans. Because if somebody comes to us 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.040 and wants to open a bank account, wants to get 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.280 an insurance policy, wants to get a car, wants to 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:22.720 get a job, it doesn't matter, wants to do something 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.000 where they could take us for a ride, if they're 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.440 a fraud, then if we had this list to check against, 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.760 like social Security numbers or names or whatever, we could 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.920 root out fraud and we could defend ourselves from identity 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:40.720 theft and the fraud that's perpetrated by it. And so banks, 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:48.920 insurance companies, car dealerships, cable companies, employers, everybody, other government agencies. 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.840 They all barbers, they don't forget them. They all use 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:57.320 this death Master file, which is available publicly to check 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.520 your applications against. And if the government it says that 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.360 you're dead, it says that on this file, whether it's 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:07.320 right or wrong, you're dead. And that's a whole lot 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.640 of problems for you. We're gonna get into those right 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:41.520 after this things chop cho stop. So before we broke, 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.479 I was talking about that. Uh, that scripts um investigation 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:48.360 and there was an inspector of General Support in two 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.360 thousand and eight that kind of pulled back the curtain 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:56.520 on this stuff, and Social Security said, uh, yeah, that's 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.240 about right. There's there's a lot of people tens of 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.080 thousands that we think are dead and aren't dead, but 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.680 they're they're success rates pretty good. Yeah, and he said, 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.680 they said, but we're at a ninety nine point five 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.640 nine rate of accuracy, which is not too bad for 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:16.320 a government bureaucracy. That's really good. And they said that 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.800 of the time. Can you can fix it in just 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:25.920 a year, just a hellish year, Yeah, not too bad. Um. 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:32.800 And so they basically admitted two being a government. Uh. 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.720 I don't want to knock them too much because it 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.120 feels like everyone's always, you know, knocking government work. But 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.520 they're basically saying like, yeah, man, these names are miskeeds 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:45.760 or these numbers are miss keyeds. Sometimes it happens, yeah, 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.320 pretty much. So, Um, the thing is that point for 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:55.120 one error rate, that's tens of thousands of people every year. 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.480 There's like two point seven million people added to this 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.040 list every year who die in America, right, so it 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:05.160 adds up to a lot of errors. The thing is 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:10.320 the Social Security Administration UM. So they take their deathmasterfile, 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.040 they hand it over to the National Technical Information Service, 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.640 and they're the ones who distributed to all the insurance companies, 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:22.360 the genealogy websites. I think ancestry dot com publishes it. UM, 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:26.800 the yeah, insurance companies, everybody who wants to do a 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.240 background check on you. They all get their their versions 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:34.440 of this from them, the National Technical Information Service. But 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.400 part of the agreement to get this from them you 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:40.600 have to pay for it, is that you have to 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:44.280 keep your d MF up to date. Because if you 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.640 just buy one every once in a while UM, and 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.920 the Social Security Administration finds an air on and updates 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.520 their file, if you don't go get the new file, 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.200 your old file is still going to have that error. 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.240 And that's when it becomes problematic for the people who 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.520 are listed as deceased when they try to go get credit, 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.200 and it kind of has a tendency to spread once 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:10.040 it's out there. Yeah, So, like I said, sometimes it's 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.879 being mis keyed. UM. One. I think they said like 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:17.600 one out of every two hundred is just from clerical error. UM. 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:22.320 Sometimes it can be like, Um, a family member goes 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.600 to report to death and they accidentally make a mistake 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.320 where they might end up being on the death list. Yeah. 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.240 I don't know how that happens, but it does happen. 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:35.360 There are people like Don Pilger human error, married du Bord, 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.720 who who apparently married du Board just gave up. She 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.199 She's like, my husband can get credit cards still, I'm 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.640 just gonna live off of it. Uh. Sometimes you this 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:48.800 one woman named Candice Atkins just accidentally clicked deceased on 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.240 a tax return on an electronic filing, and that was it. 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:55.760 Can you imagine now? I can't believe there's not an undo? 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.720 That's yeah, I was looking at me that she had submitted. 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.159 I guess you could probably undone it in the moment, 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:03.920 but she didn't realize it and submitted it. Right, But 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:05.680 you should still be able to undo that, you would 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.119 think so. Um. And then there are some weird things, 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:13.159 these uh anomalies that you dug up. Um. More than 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:19.000 of false listings made in two thousand seven were from Illinois. YEP. 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:20.960 It sounds like a hiccup in the system to me, 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.960 I hiccup in the system or a super lazy data 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:29.520 entry person. I think. Yeah, Uh, more than two million 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:33.760 Americans were falsely listed as dying on the fift and 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:36.359 that was just an internal policy, is to use the 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:40.040 fifteenth as a default value when they didn't know at 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.600 the middle of the month. Sounds good to me. Um, 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:44.879 And I guess that was just the question of not 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:49.359 going to the trouble of verifying the information, right so um. 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:50.920 And it can happen the other way too, you can 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:55.040 be I think at least six million dead Americans are 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.960 labeled as alive, which is a huge problem because you're 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.520 you're just you're information is out there ready to be 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:06.159 abused by the nefarious. Well, no, that's the opposite. If 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.400 you're if you're listed as deceased but you're still alive, 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.919 your information is being published and can be used for 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:17.880 identity fraud. If you're actually dead and not listed, if 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.400 somebody knows that you're dead and not listed, they can 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.840 use your stuff to to perpetrate fraud against the government. Yeah, 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.639 that's what I was saying. Yeah, sixty seven thousand of 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.920 those people of those numbers were used to report three 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.879 billion dollars in income between two thousand and six and 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:37.320 two thousand eleven, and that's a lot of text return refunds, 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.720 so fraud. Yeah, so it's a problem both ways, where 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:45.679 either you're dead and you're not listed on there, or 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:50.760 you're not dead and they listed you anyway. And like 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.920 I was saying earlier, this, once this information gets out there, 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:58.920 because there's so many different entities getting this list, once 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.480 it's out there, it's days out there, it's very tough 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.560 to go around to everyone and and get this information changed. 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.960 Even once you get it changed with the Social Security Administration, 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.320 because while it's a requirement to keep your your list 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.719 up to date, if you're a subscriber, there's no enforcement 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.880 to it. There's nobody who comes along and says, let 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:20.760 me see your list. Oh it's not a to date, 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:24.000 give me give me ten dollars that you're fine. There's 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:28.200 nobody enforcing it. So once it's out there, it's very 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:32.119 tough to undo. It takes forever, uh well less than 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:36.480 a year on average supposedly. So there are a lot 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.760 of horror stories, um for what this can due to 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:45.000 someone's life. Um, this one person Rivers, what's the first name, 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:50.159 Judy Rivers. Judy Rivers Rivers cuomo Um. Police actually detained 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:54.120 Judy Rivers from using because she used a debit card, 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:56.560 her own debit card at a Walmart at Walmart Plus. 0:20:56.560 --> 0:21:00.480 She also had a mountain dew bottle size lab in 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:05.320 her pocket. Uh. But in like it seems like all 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:09.600 of these cases. It ranges from stuff like, um, your 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.760 insurance gets all messed up, or your maybe disability checks 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:17.119 or your Medicaid payments, or you're trying to get a 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:18.959 home loan or trying to get a credit card, like 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:22.120 anything that you can think of where social Security number 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:24.600 might help. You can't get a haircut. You should see 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.320 how long the hair is on these people. Even if 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:30.520 you have cash, they won't do it. The Rivers ended 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:32.520 up living out of her car for six months. Yeah, 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.320 she had just a really bad time of it for 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:38.199 five years. Um and at first she didn't know what 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:40.960 was going on because she was frozen out of her 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:44.200 bank accounts. Because this is something we said like like 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:47.560 you you can't get future loans, you can't get future 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.720 insurance policies, you can't get future credit. But also the 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:54.720 stuff that you already have, your current bank accounts, all 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.919 that stuff gets frozen because you're listed is dead and 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:00.639 so that comes up on the computer and your account 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:03.440 gets frozen. And even when you show up and say, hey, 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.280 it's me, you know me, the teller can't do anything 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:08.280 about it. The bank can't do anything about it. It's 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:14.040 it's done. And now you've just been pitted against the system. Yes, 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:18.080 and it's like there's no door you can go knock 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:22.560 on and say, hey, we can clear this up in 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:25.840 just a few minutes. I'm clearly alive. You just click 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:27.680 the few little things you need to click to get 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:30.560 my life back. Because the c US government it's not 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.040 nearly that easy. So I guess, said Chuck. That brings 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:35.760 up what to do, because there actually are procedures in place, 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:39.000 Like we said, the Social Security Administration says this is 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:41.679 not fully accurate. Anybody gets this list needs to keep 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:44.280 updating it as we update it. I think they released 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:48.160 an updated list weekly. They don't even tell you though. 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:50.560 You find out the hard way almost always. That's a 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:52.360 big one. Yeah, it's not like they say, by the way, 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:55.479 we found an error. Um, because they don't know. They 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:58.480 don't know you're alive. So I actually called the Social 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:03.240 Security Administration. I did because I wanted answers. You didn't 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:04.840 go to the office no, I didn't know. It was 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:09.640 a little laterward. It wasn't cowardless, it was laziness. So, UM, 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:12.680 I was talking to like just the the guy who answered, 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:14.840 and he knew exactly what I was talking about, knew 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:16.879 all the procedures. But I asked him, I was like, 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:19.240 do you guys ever uncover this yourselves? Or is it 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:21.680 when people come to you that you know there's a mistake. 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:24.399 He's like, yeah, when people come to us. So supposedly 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:26.720 there's all these reforms in place and all that, but 0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:29.800 I think still for the most part, when an error 0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:32.360 is uncovered, it's because you found it out. But even 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:34.920