Speaker 1: Have you ever felt depressed about work only to have
Speaker 1: your dad be like, why you're so down? So you
Speaker 1: told him you hate your job and he said, well,
Speaker 1: you better talk yourself out of it. And then you thought, hmm,
Speaker 1: I love to talk. I could host a podcast. And
Speaker 1: then you went to Speaker from my Heart and started
Speaker 1: a podcast and got good at it, then monetized it,
Speaker 1: then quit your boring job and told your dad thanks
Speaker 1: for the advice. And he was like, well, that's not
Speaker 1: what I meant and I don't understand what a podcast is,
Speaker 1: but you seem happy, So that's great, kiddo. You ever
Speaker 1: do that? Well, you could at speaker dot com. That's
Speaker 1: spr E A K E R. Ask your dad you
Speaker 1: actually don't. Hi. I'm Arden Marine from Insatiable and will
Speaker 1: you accept this rose podcast? And I'm Julianne Robinson and
Speaker 1: Emmy nominated director of Bridgeton and we are the hosts
Speaker 1: of Lady of the Road, a funny and inspiring podcast
Speaker 1: where we have conversations with influential women about their lives
Speaker 1: and we get self health advice because we are always
Speaker 1: looking to improve ourselves. Sure story, we talk about money, health, relationships,
Speaker 1: you name it from inspiring women like Joan Jet, Nicole Buyer,
Speaker 1: Lauren Laptez Retta and more. Listen and subscribe to Lady
Speaker 1: the Road on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: sole wherever you get your podcasts. Hi. I'm Hillary Clinton
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited to be back with a third
Speaker 1: season of You and Me Both. When I started this podcast,
Speaker 1: we were going through some tough times, and let's face it,
Speaker 1: we still are. And here's what I know. We cannot
Speaker 1: get through this alone. So please join me for more
Speaker 1: conversations with people who will make you think, make you laugh,
Speaker 1: and help us find a path forward. This season, I'll
Speaker 1: be talking about the state of our democracy with experts
Speaker 1: and with people organizing on the ground. Will draw inspiration
Speaker 1: from some amazing people like Olympic star Alison Felix and
Speaker 1: Grammy Award winner Brandy Carlisle. And we'll get into the
Speaker 1: hard stuff with writer Cheryl Strait and my dear friend
Speaker 1: and colleague, Juma Aberdeen. So join us. Listen to You
Speaker 1: and Me both on the I Heart Radio app, Apple
Speaker 1: podcast or where where you get your podcast. Hi, gang,
Speaker 1: my name is David Kecker. I'm Todd Packer from the
Speaker 1: office The pac Man what's up, my nerds? He Hello again, everybody.
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Office Deep Dive. Buckle up.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a bumpy ride today, that's all I'll
Speaker 1: tell you. I am, as always your host, Brian baum Gartner,
Speaker 1: and I've got some exciting news. As you know, I
Speaker 1: am soon going to be transitioning into my new podcast,
Speaker 1: Off the Beat, which is going to take what we
Speaker 1: do here at the Office Deep Dive and expand it
Speaker 1: to more of your favorite guests and shows. So we
Speaker 1: will still be talking to folks associated with the Office,
Speaker 1: but so much more. And so today you're gonna get
Speaker 1: a little sneak peek of what you can expect in
Speaker 1: Off the Beat as we bring in a very special guest,
Speaker 1: one of my good friends and one of the funniest
Speaker 1: guys that I know, David Keckner. Now you may know
Speaker 1: him as Todd Packer from the Office, the pac Man himself.
Speaker 1: But today we're gonna go deep, that's what she said.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go into his full career, starting with his
Speaker 1: early days at Second City and Improv Olympic to s
Speaker 1: n L where he got his start alongside Will Ferrell,
Speaker 1: his move out to l A, which led to his
Speaker 1: big break as champ Kind on Anchorman, and well the
Speaker 1: longstanding friendship he's had with both Steve Carrell and Nancy
Speaker 1: Walls Correll, which is how he landed his guest starring
Speaker 1: role on the Office as the man we all understandably
Speaker 1: love to hate. So let's dive in right now. The
Speaker 1: man who brought everyone in the world of the Office
Speaker 1: down is here today to lift us up. David Keckner. Everybody,
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and squeak on
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeaker cooking at every month, left over from
Speaker 1: the nubb before. Hey, well what do I see but
Speaker 1: double b he's looking at me? How are you, buddy?
Speaker 1: Always I'm great. Always with the hat I need I
Speaker 1: need lessons from you in hat wear. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just it's the sun for me unfair. So I
Speaker 1: for me, it's it's more like, um, it's not necessarily fashioned.
Speaker 1: It's a necessity of like I gotta keep the sun off. No,
Speaker 1: but I do that. But I just wear baseball hats,
Speaker 1: and I go into hat stores to try to find
Speaker 1: something just a little bit more fashionable. I can't. I
Speaker 1: don't know it's my head shape or something. See how
Speaker 1: I have a small head too. So um, but it's
Speaker 1: really Brian, I gotta say, I've always thought this. It's
Speaker 1: all a decision about I can wear that. Really, I
Speaker 1: just need to have confidence. That's that's what I think.
Speaker 1: You just go yep, I can wear that, and then
Speaker 1: you do because I can work for For us, it's
Speaker 1: the larger forehead, the superior forehead that we have. But
Speaker 1: it's for me it's the ears I gotta watch out for,
Speaker 1: you know, because the ball cap doesn't do those. So, Babe,
Speaker 1: do you sunscreen? I do, sure, Okay, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: religiously sunscreen, So I got it. That's this is the
Speaker 1: lazy sunscreen for me. Lazy sunscreen, but fashionable, way more
Speaker 1: fashionable as well. Well, thank you for saying so. And
Speaker 1: you're right, Yeah, I am right. I'm right, Dave. You
Speaker 1: are one of the funniest people I've ever met. Um
Speaker 1: that that almost goes with without let's stop there. That
Speaker 1: was the episode, and I am now fully stated I
Speaker 1: want to go back with you because there's a lot
Speaker 1: about your life that I don't know. I know obviously. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about the chiefs later. On in Kansas City.
Speaker 1: But you were born in Tipton, Missouri, and I assume
Speaker 1: your family was in in farming, right, your dad manufactured
Speaker 1: chicken turkey coops, turkey coops. I always start with saying
Speaker 1: he manufactured livestock trailers, so then people get at least
Speaker 1: a vision of it's on a trailer. Then I add
Speaker 1: coops to it so they know it's on a trailer.
Speaker 1: Because every time I say it, people go oh fors,
Speaker 1: like something in your backyard, Like, well, um, that's condescending,
Speaker 1: And you're also ignorant and not interested because it seems
Speaker 1: to me like when they go, oh for your backyard,
Speaker 1: I've never seen a turkey coop in someone's backyard. I've
Speaker 1: seen chicken coops. But to me, like, oh like your backyard, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: so you don't want to hear the rest of the story.
Speaker 1: That's what I take away from it. Um, so, no,
Speaker 1: they were. There were forty foot trailers and uh large
Speaker 1: racks that are built for transferring turkeys from the farm
Speaker 1: to the processing plant, so from their home to uh
Speaker 1: their death, yes, their uh to our mouths. So my
Speaker 1: dad was a manufacturer. He built a lot of different
Speaker 1: other farm inpluments like hey, bail forks uh pharaohing crates,
Speaker 1: which is another thing that's too long to get into,
Speaker 1: gas barrel stands, picnic table frames. But the biggest part
Speaker 1: of the business was turkey coops. And yeah, so from
Speaker 1: Tipton it's right dead center of Missouri and from north
Speaker 1: southeast west it's like right in the middle on Highway
Speaker 1: fifty between Jefferson City, the state capital, and Saidelia, which
Speaker 1: is where the Missouri State Fair was held every year.
Speaker 1: That is a very special place in my heart. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, that's where I grew up. Town to two
Speaker 1: thousand people. Wow, And now, when did you start thinking
Speaker 1: about being a performer? And I'm gonna get I'm gonna
Speaker 1: use the word performer generally now because I want to
Speaker 1: talk about that a little bit later, about what you
Speaker 1: consider yourself. But when did you start thinking, oh, this
Speaker 1: may be something that I want to do. Well. I've
Speaker 1: said this before. I'm one of six kids, and so
Speaker 1: when I was ten, I have a distinct memory of
Speaker 1: walking around the west side of my house by myself,
Speaker 1: being very contemplative and thinking, I gotta get out of here.
Speaker 1: I have to I have to live in a city
Speaker 1: I I don't know where I'm gonna go. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: miss my family and friends, but I know I've got
Speaker 1: to go. And then when I was thirteen was the
Speaker 1: year for Saturday at Live, and I knew my parents
Speaker 1: wouldn't let me watch it because they wouldn't let me
Speaker 1: watch like laugh In or a lot of shows, you know,
Speaker 1: like A Room twenty two or stuff like that was
Speaker 1: too racy. But they leased to go out dancing every
Speaker 1: weekend to the local Farmers and Sportsmen's Club, and I
Speaker 1: had a babysit my three younger siblings, and I knew
Speaker 1: they weren't to be there, so I didn't say anything.
Speaker 1: I didn't ask permission because I knew they would have
Speaker 1: said no, So I didn't say anything, so I didn't
Speaker 1: have to lie. I just wouldn't mention because I don't
Speaker 1: know if you remember, you're a little bit younger than me,
Speaker 1: but they would do. They were doing some live commercials
Speaker 1: promoting Saturday Live. I was like, this is brand news,
Speaker 1: this is a live show, and it's comedy. It looks
Speaker 1: like something that I've never seen before. And so my
Speaker 1: parents were gone and so SNL, let's see it aired
Speaker 1: at ten thirty in the Midwest, and I remember watching
Speaker 1: it and through that first year I was like, I
Speaker 1: want to do that. I want to be on that show. Now.
Speaker 1: Then you don't don't tell people because you're in a
Speaker 1: small town. Small small towns don't really embrace dreams. And again,
Speaker 1: this is before the internet. So I had no that's
Speaker 1: the title of your new book. Yeah, I like you
Speaker 1: said new book, as if I've written many, um. But
Speaker 1: so that was in my head and I didn't tell people.
Speaker 1: I didn't tell anyone. And again, there's no performance opportunity
Speaker 1: or stage opportunity in Tipton. None except once a year
Speaker 1: there was the high school play, and you couldn't do
Speaker 1: that into your junior so there was no opportunity. This
Speaker 1: is pre internet. There's not a ton of books. I'd
Speaker 1: never met an actor. I didn't know how it worked.
Speaker 1: So that's that's that's when I knew, though. You just
Speaker 1: you've watched SNL and you were like, I want to
Speaker 1: do that. That's what I want to do. Yeo. So
Speaker 1: what was your process then, of of leaving Tipton. I
Speaker 1: know you went to Chicago. How did you decide that
Speaker 1: was the place or go about getting there? Well, I
Speaker 1: went to college first and I was a political science major. Again,
Speaker 1: that's surprising to me. That's the most surprising thing you've
Speaker 1: said so far. Really, that's funny. The thing was, the
Speaker 1: thing is because I'm very political. Uh, I didn't even
Speaker 1: have a thought that I should be a theater major.
Speaker 1: That didn't come up. I thought, you go to college
Speaker 1: for something that is dedicated to a pursuit, a career,
Speaker 1: a profession. So I thought, well, I'm going to be
Speaker 1: in politics. And I really, looking back on it, I
Speaker 1: think that was my desire to seek a stage. But
Speaker 1: I also had this altruistic streak where I thought a
Speaker 1: politician their job was to help people. So I did
Speaker 1: that for three years, and then I started realizing that
Speaker 1: this isn't no one's talking about the you know, how
Speaker 1: you use power or or the process or politics to
Speaker 1: really help people. It was us about this machinations of
Speaker 1: things going on. The third year was kind of getting
Speaker 1: to the more dry aspects of politics and the administrative
Speaker 1: end of it. And I remember thinking, well, shoot, I've
Speaker 1: met so many bright people in this pursuit. And I thought, well,
Speaker 1: the people in politics are either from a political family
Speaker 1: or they are very wealthy, or they're the smartest person
Speaker 1: in any room they walk into, and I was none
Speaker 1: of those things. So I just quit going to my
Speaker 1: classes because I remember thinking, I don't want to be
Speaker 1: a lawyer. I don't want to just work for a senator,
Speaker 1: and that doesn't seem like these people are really committed
Speaker 1: to just helping people. So I quit going to all
Speaker 1: my classes. So as you know, if that happens, you're
Speaker 1: what they call academically ineligible, which is my way of punting.
Speaker 1: It really was. And my dad said, well, Dave, I
Speaker 1: don't know what you want to do, but I don't
Speaker 1: think you want to go to school. And for me
Speaker 1: that was a relief. I didn't there was no punishment,
Speaker 1: but for him as a relief because it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this kid's off my doll I don't. So he sold
Speaker 1: me the car I was driving. It was a god,
Speaker 1: what year was that thing? It was a nineteen probably
Speaker 1: a nineteen seventy seven Plymouth Grand Fury. Uh. He sold
Speaker 1: me that car for four hundred dollars. And then I
Speaker 1: was there in Clymie, Missouri. I was working three different
Speaker 1: jobs just to make it, you know, paying for your
Speaker 1: rent and all that stuff, and then a buddy of
Speaker 1: mine and I. By this point, Brian, I had read
Speaker 1: a bunch of books about Saturday Live, like there's a
Speaker 1: smaller book called Backstage at Saturday Night Live. Then I
Speaker 1: was starting to read books about Second City, and I'd
Speaker 1: read the book about John Belushi Wired, and everything that
Speaker 1: kept coming up was like, Oh, they're all from Second City.
Speaker 1: So a buddy of mine and I we drove up
Speaker 1: to Chicago and we saw a show at Second City
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: You know, sitting there in the whole time, was like, God,
Speaker 1: this is what I want, This is what I want.
Speaker 1: And then on the way out, so actually on the
Speaker 1: second level, they're the big, big room and Second City.
Speaker 1: Go downstairs and there's a big poster and it was
Speaker 1: advertising classes. I was like, oh my god, that's oh
Speaker 1: that's how that's how they do it. And I had
Speaker 1: a matchbook and a golf pencil, because back then you
Speaker 1: would fill out a piece of paper for your mainly address.
Speaker 1: They wanted people's just like now they want your information.
Speaker 1: And so I surreptitiously wrote down the number for classes
Speaker 1: on that matchbook. Because I'm from Tipton, I expected someone
Speaker 1: to tap on my shoulder and say, what are you
Speaker 1: writing that down for? You can't do that. That's the
Speaker 1: kind of narrative you come from a small town, like
Speaker 1: you don't, don't you have? You can't do that. And
Speaker 1: so then I went back to Columbia, Missouri, and I
Speaker 1: called and I found out that they taught very different
Speaker 1: levels of classes. And then I saved my money so
Speaker 1: that summer I came up and took a two week
Speaker 1: concentrated course for what was called Player's Workshop. And then
Speaker 1: I went home and like, that's it, I'm doing this.
Speaker 1: Went home. It took another year to save money and
Speaker 1: come back. And then I moved to Chicago when I
Speaker 1: was twenty four. Wow, and and you, because I know
Speaker 1: you worked at Improv Olympic as well. Were you doing
Speaker 1: both of those things simultaneously or once I got to town,
Speaker 1: I made the mistake of thinking I had to be
Speaker 1: in restaurant management to uh to afford living in Chicago,
Speaker 1: which I didn't realize. I made less money there than
Speaker 1: I would have if I was waiting tables. It took
Speaker 1: six months there. So I just kept all these things
Speaker 1: that happened happened for a reason, like I didn't move
Speaker 1: to Chicago to La twenty four, and I didn't start
Speaker 1: right away. And then when I was ready to start,
Speaker 1: and I quit working as a restaurant manager, I got
Speaker 1: a job waiting tables and I opened up the Chicago
Speaker 1: Tribune in the Sunday section had an article about Dell
Speaker 1: Close and Sharna helping from the Improv Olympic and about
Speaker 1: what they were doing, and they were going to have
Speaker 1: their own television show, and I like, this is the
Speaker 1: place to go. So I started first at the Improv Olympic,
Speaker 1: which was a blessing, Like all these things lined up
Speaker 1: and sent me to the right direction every time. And
Speaker 1: it was a delay in a sense, but it is
Speaker 1: the right time because at that point, all these other
Speaker 1: people were moving to town and starting classes, and they
Speaker 1: had all been fans of sun Life the same relative
Speaker 1: age that I had been, and we're all happened to
Speaker 1: be there. But everybody wanted to be good. It wasn't
Speaker 1: about being famous or successful. Is about you wanted to
Speaker 1: go there and do this thing and create that then
Speaker 1: find a way to do that magic you had been
Speaker 1: witnessing and be part of that type of thing. And
Speaker 1: it just so happens. So I started the probalymic first,
Speaker 1: and then I started taking classes at Second City simultaneously,
Speaker 1: so I was taken both classes. So about that time
Speaker 1: I was probably doing at least four nights of classes
Speaker 1: a week, and then within a year then I would
Speaker 1: be doing four nights of classes and or performance every
Speaker 1: week for my entire time in Chicago. And then years
Speaker 1: later you read the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell and
Speaker 1: they talked about the ten thousand hours theory and I
Speaker 1: looked back like, oh wow, I did it. I put
Speaker 1: that time in and that's the thing. So that's how
Speaker 1: that's how it happened. And for people who don't know
Speaker 1: Dell Close, this is a legendary comedy teacher in Chicago
Speaker 1: who was there at the same time with you. Well,
Speaker 1: when I was there, Chris Farley and I started. Actually
Speaker 1: Chris Farley started I think six months later than me,
Speaker 1: but Chris Farley, Pat Finn, Pete Halley, Neil Flynn, Mike Coleman. Then,
Speaker 1: uh so this is at Second City that it's Dave Rasowski,
Speaker 1: Dave Pasquasy. A lot of these people are legends that
Speaker 1: you might not be household names, but trust me. These
Speaker 1: are legendary and prop performers. Tim Madows was there, Joel
Speaker 1: Murray was there, and then over the Second City side
Speaker 1: at the same time was Stephen Colbert, Steve Carrell, Richard
Speaker 1: Kind had Jeff left town. But the list of the
Speaker 1: people that I ended up working with in Chicago is
Speaker 1: a who's who of people who eventually became amazing. So
Speaker 1: then just behind me was Matt Besser, Amy Poehler, Ian Roberts,
Speaker 1: Matt Walsh, tina A, Rachel Dratch, Ratio Sayings, Adam McKay
Speaker 1: and other other names. Now these are writers John Glazer,
Speaker 1: Brian McCann, Brian Stack, Kevin Dorff. The list goes on
Speaker 1: and on, and Tommy, Andy Richter. It just goes on,
Speaker 1: and you realize that this was just happened to be
Speaker 1: an amazing time. And before I left town, I got
Speaker 1: Saturday Live after a couple of years, after many years
Speaker 1: working there. But um I met with a guy named
Speaker 1: Bernie Sillons is one of the persons that started Second City,
Speaker 1: and he and I had lunch and he said he
Speaker 1: had never seen such a confluence of talent as had
Speaker 1: been there in this past ten years. And I look
Speaker 1: at it now and like that has never happened again.
Speaker 1: Like this group of people that all came through at
Speaker 1: this particular time in history, and all of them made
Speaker 1: a big impact in show business or in media. I guess,
Speaker 1: well you were there. I know Nancy Walls was also
Speaker 1: the this Nancy. Sorry I forgot to mention. Nancy and
Speaker 1: I were on Saturday and Live together. Nancy Correll had
Speaker 1: been dating, Yes, she'd been dating Steve Carrell. So Nancy
Speaker 1: and I actually were in the same company at Second City,
Speaker 1: and then we both got hired on Saturday Live at
Speaker 1: the same time, and then we both got let go
Speaker 1: from Saturday Night Live at the same time. Nancy and
Speaker 1: Steve got married this summer she and I got hired,
Speaker 1: and uh, I was at their wedding and we were
Speaker 1: out there, you know, and Steve audition for SNL. I
Speaker 1: mean that can be to be believed, like they didn't
Speaker 1: recognize like Steve Carrell's specialness. Um, I guess I guess
Speaker 1: I had to say thank God because then I probably
Speaker 1: wouldn't have gotten hired. But so, yeah, they got married
Speaker 1: right before we started doing SNL that first season. Nancy
Speaker 1: and I and then I think Steve was doing a play.
Speaker 1: He had been at Second City for a long time,
Speaker 1: and I was a huge fan of his back then.
Speaker 1: And he then went and did a play at the
Speaker 1: Goodman called Picasso at the Lapino Gil which was a
Speaker 1: stim Martin play, and then he ended up, I think,
Speaker 1: doing it at a Broadway theater in New York, so
Speaker 1: they were there at the same time. Too interesting. I
Speaker 1: didn't know did he play Einstein? Remember, I don't never
Speaker 1: saw the play. Yeah, how arrogant is that that? I
Speaker 1: didn't think, oh shit, you know, it's one of those things.
Speaker 1: Back then, I probably would have said he's done something stupid,
Speaker 1: like I'd like to see her play in such a
Speaker 1: way that meant like, fuck you, you know what I
Speaker 1: mean that I would have thought, you want to see
Speaker 1: my play? Oh, how good of you to come down
Speaker 1: to see my play. But you know, you're busy thinking
Speaker 1: about yourself and doing a million other things. But I
Speaker 1: never did get it. I didn't have a chance to
Speaker 1: see it in Chicago and then in New York. I
Speaker 1: forget when the run was, but I didn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: get a chance to see it. It's a hard time
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Speaker 1: hire you need Indeed, did you know that on the
Speaker 1: day doctor King was shot, the all black security detail
Speaker 1: normally assigned to him was called off. They're the ones
Speaker 1: who would not allow him to stay at any hotel
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Speaker 1: man there. And did you know that on the day
Speaker 1: doctor King was shot, two black firemen stationed across the
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Speaker 1: This is the MLK tapes. The first episodes are available
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Speaker 1: This one is personal. When you first get there, you
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Speaker 1: Treatment on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Were you still at Second
Speaker 1: City when you auditioned for S and L. Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that was why you left Second Yeah? That. I
Speaker 1: always thought to myself, I'm not going to go to
Speaker 1: New York or Los Angeles without a job, like I
Speaker 1: would see people leave Chicago and go to l A.
Speaker 1: But I always thought to myself, go when a job
Speaker 1: takes you there. And I was fortunate enough that a
Speaker 1: job took me away. Tell me about that audition experience.
Speaker 1: I've heard so many amazing stories. Did you audition for Lauren? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I tell you I had. It's weird and it sounds arrogant,
Speaker 1: but I knew I was going to get it because
Speaker 1: when I was thirteen as I told you, I decided
Speaker 1: I'm going to be on that show. And it wasn't
Speaker 1: a feeling of hubrists or ego. It was just kind
Speaker 1: of this knowing, well, I'm going to be on that show.
Speaker 1: And so when I got asked to audition, I kind
Speaker 1: of heard other people had talked and some of the
Speaker 1: scouts had come through, and I knew they really liked me,
Speaker 1: and I heard from other people that Lauren really thought
Speaker 1: highly of me. So this is before I went out
Speaker 1: to audition, So I really I felt at ease. And
Speaker 1: so my first audition, you had to come in with
Speaker 1: a an original character, and then you had to do
Speaker 1: a political impression, and then you had to do a
Speaker 1: celebrity impression. So I did at Buchanan because he has
Speaker 1: got a grave, gravelly voice like I do. Pat Buchanan
Speaker 1: is this right wing commentator on on back then it
Speaker 1: was CNN because there wasn't Fox News yet, but he
Speaker 1: was a right wing guy who was one of the
Speaker 1: first guys talking about building a wall. And then I
Speaker 1: did Jack Lemon and Jim Carey doing a buddy movie
Speaker 1: and they were arguing about whose trailer was bigger, and
Speaker 1: Brian I improvised the entire thing, just off the top
Speaker 1: of your head. YEP. I had some thoughts, you know, how,
Speaker 1: you think because I was I was at the I OH.
Speaker 1: There's such a purity to improvisation, Like you don't decide
Speaker 1: what you're doing ahead of time. Now that is a
Speaker 1: blessing and a curse. And you never repeat yourself at
Speaker 1: the I OH, Like if you did the same character
Speaker 1: week after week, people look like, what what are you doing?
Speaker 1: That's kind of like cheating. So after the first audition,
Speaker 1: which I just improvised, I wrote the second audition. The
Speaker 1: second audition, can't remember exactly. It may have been just
Speaker 1: go do your aracters, or it may have been do
Speaker 1: the political impression and whatever characters you want to do.
Speaker 1: I remember I didn't have to do celebrities anymore, so
Speaker 1: I think I may have done Pat Buchanan again. And
Speaker 1: then I'd written this little piece which is almost a
Speaker 1: one man show of just characters, because I love to
Speaker 1: do characters back in Chicago too, and so I had
Speaker 1: all these little things I was going to do. It's
Speaker 1: almost like they blended together, and it's studio eight h.
Speaker 1: There's no audience and no one's laughing, and there's no warmth,
Speaker 1: and it's a bit cold, and there's cameras. Now I
Speaker 1: didn't know, and thankfully I didn't know. The cameras are
Speaker 1: a live feed. There's people all over NBC, all over
Speaker 1: the building, watching all over the building and on the
Speaker 1: West coast. You don't know that you have a very
Speaker 1: large audience of people. You don't know that until later,
Speaker 1: And thankfully you don't know, because that would have probably
Speaker 1: been more anxiety inducing than anything else. But again, that
Speaker 1: doesn't exist unless you let it come into your head.
Speaker 1: And I had this sense of calm and peace that
Speaker 1: I knew, I knew what I was doing, and I
Speaker 1: in myself, I knew that what I was gonna do
Speaker 1: was gonna be satisfactory to me and that this is
Speaker 1: what I have, and there was no worry to it.
Speaker 1: And I did it and I felt very good about it.
Speaker 1: I don't remember if there was a laugh at all,
Speaker 1: because no one gives it up. And then you wait
Speaker 1: another week or two, and then you get called back again.
Speaker 1: And you're getting called back and they don't tell you
Speaker 1: to prep or anything like that. You're just getting called
Speaker 1: back for a meeting and you don't know what it is,
Speaker 1: so you go to a meeting and it's Lauren Michaels
Speaker 1: is in there, and Steve Higgins was the head writer.
Speaker 1: And then Lauren talks to you, and it's really weird
Speaker 1: because he talks about this or that. He talks about baseball,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, funk, I don't know a thing about baseball.
Speaker 1: And then in Chicago that summer, five people had died
Speaker 1: from the heat, and for whatever reason, that was on
Speaker 1: my mind because it's just been a headline that's talking
Speaker 1: about that, and I remember Lauren Lauren saying we're done
Speaker 1: talking about that now to kind of prompt me that okay,
Speaker 1: either he doesn't want to hear about this story or whatever.
Speaker 1: And so then it goes on I don't know, five
Speaker 1: ten minutes, and then at some point Steve leans Ummer
Speaker 1: goes congratulations, you're hired. They're like, oh, okay, because you're like, what.
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem to be structured to this meeting, but
Speaker 1: I do. I think the final meeting is just to
Speaker 1: check out if you're if you've got a screw loose,
Speaker 1: or you're a nut job or something, or you're just
Speaker 1: not ready, if you're too green or something. It would
Speaker 1: be pretty evident at that point, there was one guy,
Speaker 1: and I don't know where he was from, and I
Speaker 1: don't know what his name was, but I do know
Speaker 1: that in the previous two auditions everyone thought he was
Speaker 1: British because all he did was speaking of British accent,
Speaker 1: and we're all from America. We don't know if it's
Speaker 1: a real one or not. It seemed fine, It did
Speaker 1: seem I didn't get to know him. It seemed a
Speaker 1: bit presentational to me. But then apparently at his meeting
Speaker 1: it came out like, oh, I'm not really British, but
Speaker 1: he'd always been doing everything. It's like, okay, fella, there
Speaker 1: seems to be a p sential problem with you. And
Speaker 1: then he didn't make use. Everyone's like, probably that guy's
Speaker 1: gonna make it, but he was gone. So I think
Speaker 1: that's what that final meeting is, to find out, Hey,
Speaker 1: what do we got here? Now we're just one on one,
Speaker 1: there's no performance. Who are you? So? Yes, Will Farrell
Speaker 1: and I were hired the same day, and then Will
Speaker 1: and I went to a baseball game that night and
Speaker 1: a limo pulls up and myself and Will and Steve
Speaker 1: Higgins sat in the fourth row behind home plate. Their
Speaker 1: Laurence seats Born didn't sit with us. He sat with
Speaker 1: Jim Silly, who did all the films, the short films
Speaker 1: about eighteen rows back. And we're like, so we're at
Speaker 1: the game with Lauren. This is how a game with
Speaker 1: Lauren works. And before that, Lauren had mentioned to me, Um,
Speaker 1: Dave at the meeting, that's right, Dave. You know, this
Speaker 1: is your first time that people see you on television,
Speaker 1: so it's up to you. Do you want to have
Speaker 1: hair or not? I was like what? And he told
Speaker 1: me all the people that had wigs and all the
Speaker 1: people that had plugs, and I'm not gonna tell you,
Speaker 1: but it was a list. You're thinking like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can see that. I can see. I think to
Speaker 1: myself like, is he telling me I have to get
Speaker 1: it too pay? Is he telling me I have to
Speaker 1: get hair plugs? I was like, oh fun, because I
Speaker 1: was thinking there's no way I could ever live it
Speaker 1: down with my buddies from Chicago if I show up
Speaker 1: on TV with hair, because they'd be like, the fuck
Speaker 1: are you? Or my family would just probably go, oh,
Speaker 1: this is sad. And then I remember later, Lauren, you know,
Speaker 1: because I could, I assume he could clearly see. I
Speaker 1: was struggling with it. And I remember after the game
Speaker 1: he said, Dave about the hair, Fuck, it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: to you. You be you like, Oh, thank god. So
Speaker 1: that was that. I may have been like the first
Speaker 1: bald guy on the show. Maybe not that it matters, right,
Speaker 1: That is so interesting, So you know that's how it happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And there's a bunch of new people with me as
Speaker 1: Me and Will Ferrell and CHERRYO Terry and Jim Brewer
Speaker 1: and Darryl Hamm and and Nancy Walls and Molly Shannon's
Speaker 1: second year, McDonald's third year, Spades fifth year, uh, Tim
Speaker 1: Meadows fifth year. Then Chris Cantan came on halfway through
Speaker 1: the season. God, they're there's a whole picture over there. Oh,
Speaker 1: Mark McKinney's second year. I think that's all of this. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. I love that and I love that you, you
Speaker 1: you know, sitting at home and Tipton said that's what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do, and then you did, and then that
Speaker 1: brought you calm later on. Yeah, I tell you, Brian.
Speaker 1: And when I got the show, I already decided my mind,
Speaker 1: I'm not staying. You get a six year contract, and
Speaker 1: I already decided I'm not staying six years because I
Speaker 1: was felt there's some people that stayed too long here
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to be one of them. And
Speaker 1: I thought, I'm gonna be here three years, and whether
Speaker 1: you believe in manifesting things or not, after the first year,
Speaker 1: I wasn't invited back, and I was shocked because I
Speaker 1: had a great first year, but apparently some people on
Speaker 1: the West Coast didn't dig what I was doing. And
Speaker 1: I like that. I'm Irish Catholic, and as a person
Speaker 1: from Second City and a teacher there had once told
Speaker 1: me because he was Irish too, he was you know,
Speaker 1: we Irish, we don't suffer fools gladly, and I certainly didn't.
Speaker 1: And I had very strong opinions about what should and
Speaker 1: shouldn't be on the show, and I think I was
Speaker 1: pretty loud in my opinions, and no one gave me
Speaker 1: fuck because you know, you're you're not running the show, boy,
Speaker 1: You're on the show. Do anything to get on the show.
Speaker 1: And it's been suggested to me that I do this
Speaker 1: one character as a talk show, and I thought that
Speaker 1: was the dumbest idea I've heard, and I told them
Speaker 1: that that I realized after I wasn't asked. BacT, they
Speaker 1: weren't asking me. They were telling me do this. But
Speaker 1: they were nice to know how about this as a
Speaker 1: talk show, And I would say, that's what's wrong with
Speaker 1: this show. We have too many talk shows. We need
Speaker 1: more scenes. No one cares what you think. But you know,
Speaker 1: it was a blessing, I guess, because you know, I
Speaker 1: moved out to l as a fortunate to start working
Speaker 1: right away. I had a development deal within three months
Speaker 1: that I moved out here. So I've been very fortunate.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. I want to mention really quickly. I know
Speaker 1: you did stuff with Conan O'Brien before you left New
Speaker 1: York right a little bit, Lauren Lauren felt bad. Lauren
Speaker 1: did not want to fire me. Lauren wanted to keep me.
Speaker 1: But this the year that I was on SNL is
Speaker 1: the first year that mad TV came on the air,
Speaker 1: and then Howard Stern had a late night show, so
Speaker 1: that they had competition in that hour for the first time,
Speaker 1: and so West Coast had a little bit more leverage
Speaker 1: on Lauren. Of course, there's a different politics that's going
Speaker 1: on there, and so they said we want changes, but
Speaker 1: Lauren wanted to keep me, and an effort to keep me,
Speaker 1: he said, maybe you can become a regular player on
Speaker 1: Conan show, which they didn't have that position. So I
Speaker 1: remember going to someone's birthday party and Conan was there,
Speaker 1: and I think Lauren had mentioned to Conan, you know,
Speaker 1: why don't you make Kettner a regular player on your show?
Speaker 1: And Conor was was kind of like He's like, I
Speaker 1: love you, but to be honest, that doesn't exist here.
Speaker 1: And we don't have the money. This is pretty early
Speaker 1: in their show, like they didn't have a budget for
Speaker 1: because every dollars accounted for, so if if you had
Speaker 1: more money for talent, it would be you'd get another writer.
Speaker 1: And so they weren't hiring me as a writer. Uh,
Speaker 1: it would have been a great education for me to
Speaker 1: be a writer, because I'm sure it would have had
Speaker 1: plenty of ideas. I sure I probably could have made
Speaker 1: it work. But the the idea of hiring an actor
Speaker 1: is to come on and be on the show. And
Speaker 1: he kind of let me down jannily like that doesn't
Speaker 1: exist year and I thought I didn't really want to
Speaker 1: do that either, because I didn't want to stay in
Speaker 1: the same building. Was like, Hey, you're back in the
Speaker 1: minor leagues, in the same building, on the same station
Speaker 1: at the same time, but not on the time you
Speaker 1: want to be there. So it was like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: wasn't fighting for us that. Yeah, it hurt like hell, man,
Speaker 1: it hurt like hell, But yeah, I moved to l A.
Speaker 1: Then that next year, that September, when you know they're
Speaker 1: going back to work, I packed up all my stuff
Speaker 1: in a U haul and drove out to l A.
Speaker 1: Did you meet Gruber? Oh? Gruber. The first time I
Speaker 1: met him, he guest wrote on the show for two
Speaker 1: weeks in January of nineties six, and I had put Gerald.
Speaker 1: I got a sketch of Gerald Tibbins on the air,
Speaker 1: and he always liked that character. And Dave. Dave's from
Speaker 1: uh he had spent a lot of time in Iowa.
Speaker 1: So he's from Midwest, and so am I. Dave Gruber
Speaker 1: Allen is a legendary comedy figure, and he and I
Speaker 1: eventually did this show called The Naked Trucker and t Bones,
Speaker 1: and so he and I both got cast in this
Speaker 1: movie called dil Scallion, directed by Jordan Brady, who has
Speaker 1: now become a huge commercial director, and so I got
Speaker 1: cast in that and groupers in the show too, and
Speaker 1: he was doing a late night show at Largo. The
Speaker 1: old Largo is a smaller club now it's his big
Speaker 1: theater in in l A or mid mid size theater
Speaker 1: in l A where they do a lot of comedy.
Speaker 1: And he said, hey, I'm doing the show called The
Speaker 1: Naked Truckers shows you come by and do a guest
Speaker 1: spot as your t bones character. So after we've wrapped
Speaker 1: the film, I came by and I did I think
Speaker 1: ten minutes of his show, and he did like forty minutes,
Speaker 1: and then he invited me back the next week, and
Speaker 1: I think I did fifteen minutes, and then the same
Speaker 1: thing the next week, and then I said, hey, why
Speaker 1: don't I just stay up for the whole show because
Speaker 1: it was working and he and I were just improvising this.
Speaker 1: It was a really weird thing. So the Naked Trucker
Speaker 1: sings songs about being on the road and they're just
Speaker 1: really absurd comedy songs, and he would tell stories and
Speaker 1: then here I come with this character that's a ne'er
Speaker 1: do weel carny slash hobo who can quote Chaucer and
Speaker 1: Noam Chomsky, so he's kind of like an intellectual Carny,
Speaker 1: and so the chemistry was just perfect, and the partnership
Speaker 1: was just incredible, and so he and I together was
Speaker 1: just magic. And we did that show for seven years
Speaker 1: in l A. And I'd say to this day it's
Speaker 1: probably one of my my fondest memories of performing ever,
Speaker 1: because man, it was just fantastic and the greatest compliment
Speaker 1: I'd ever heard in doing that shows alive. Then we
Speaker 1: became a headliner there twice a month. But the greatest
Speaker 1: complin I ever got was from some writers, because a
Speaker 1: lot of Hollywood writers would come to the show, like
Speaker 1: every Hollywood person came to the show, and some Hollywood
Speaker 1: writers had said, um, we come to this show for
Speaker 1: inspiration to realize that great comedy can still be done
Speaker 1: in this town. I was like, Wow, I didn't you know.
Speaker 1: I've never been a guy that's big on seeking advantage
Speaker 1: or trying to not really understanding how to leverage what
Speaker 1: I have into something bigger. I just always assumed something
Speaker 1: bigger and the right thing is going to come along.
Speaker 1: It doesn't work that way. You've really got to be
Speaker 1: very specific and determined about exactly what you want to
Speaker 1: turn this thing into. And um, it turned into a
Speaker 1: very compromised show on Comedy Central in one season, and
Speaker 1: it's there and I haven't looked at it in years.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of great stuff we had. But it's
Speaker 1: really confusing because the success Comedy Central had in comedy
Speaker 1: shows was Chappelle and men Siah and that the format
Speaker 1: for that was the comic comes out and talks and
Speaker 1: then throws to a sketch. We weren't a sketch duo,
Speaker 1: and so the format they forced us into was counterintuitive
Speaker 1: to what we should have been doing. But I didn't
Speaker 1: have the right people around me to be able to
Speaker 1: force Comedy Central's hand and say no, no, we're gonna
Speaker 1: do the show that we want to do, and so
Speaker 1: I just went along with it. And you know, it
Speaker 1: was great. We had our own show. I've got to
Speaker 1: dig through all the tapes and start putting that stuff
Speaker 1: online and see what it was. Maybe it was one
Speaker 1: of those things like probably a little bit ahead of
Speaker 1: his time, and I don't say that ego wise. It
Speaker 1: was just kind of confusing for people. And they promoted it.
Speaker 1: I said, don't you ever promote this is blue collar
Speaker 1: comedy because it's not that's not the crowd for this.
Speaker 1: I said, we're more of a daily show crowd. Um.
Speaker 1: And so they came up and started calling it roadhouse comedy,
Speaker 1: like we we didn't call it. We call our comedy.
Speaker 1: But you know, what the fuck is roadhouse comedy? Like
Speaker 1: it's you know, they would say it's smart, Like, don't
Speaker 1: fucking ever say dumb when you're referring to my comedy,
Speaker 1: because it tells me that you don't get it at all. Anyway.
Speaker 1: Is that network? You're still in there? And I mean
Speaker 1: that in all seriousness, good, good, whatever. I think that's
Speaker 1: shitty because that's ego based. But they made a lot
Speaker 1: of mistakes, and my mistake was letting them do it right.
Speaker 1: What what would you consider yourself? Are you? And I
Speaker 1: brought this up earlier. Are you a stand up? Are you?
Speaker 1: Are you an improviser? Are you an actor? I know
Speaker 1: you're all you do all of those things. How do
Speaker 1: you view yourself? And it doesn't really matter, it's just curious,
Speaker 1: but from between you and me, like we we do
Speaker 1: delineate between those types of things. But you said a performer,
Speaker 1: and I think that's probably the closest thing. That's a
Speaker 1: catch all for what I am. I love performing, whether
Speaker 1: it's with just two people or a thousand, so there's
Speaker 1: a performance. So I guess the other part would be
Speaker 1: I'm an entertainer. So I didn't do stand up until
Speaker 1: I had my fifth child, because at that point it's
Speaker 1: like I can never have a down month, like I
Speaker 1: can't rely on anybody else to bring income. And if
Speaker 1: you're a stand up you do have some independence, like
Speaker 1: you can just go out and get it. That's the
Speaker 1: best part. And the other thing is that at this
Speaker 1: point in my career, I could start as a headliner,
Speaker 1: which is a bit of a cheap because you know,
Speaker 1: in the stand up world you pay your dues, but
Speaker 1: I had paid my dues on other stages, and I've
Speaker 1: never stopped performing live, so I've always performed live in Chicago,
Speaker 1: always performed in l A all the time. So I
Speaker 1: would do the take a Trucker show or else I
Speaker 1: would do sketch character pieces on stand up shows because
Speaker 1: there's a variety of entertainment being done, all kinds of
Speaker 1: alternative rooms, so it's always a place to go perform live.
Speaker 1: So when I started doing stand up was kind of
Speaker 1: like me doing a one man show, because I would
Speaker 1: do character pieces. In fact, my first hour I had
Speaker 1: like I had Brian, I had changes on stage in
Speaker 1: comedy clubs, and I think people were wanting, like, what
Speaker 1: the fuck is going on here? Um, because it's not
Speaker 1: it's not the natural rhythm that they're used to, like
Speaker 1: bought it up, bout it up, Bob, and there's this guy.
Speaker 1: Let this added to the entire show by anyway, So
Speaker 1: that was very interesting. But at the same time, to me,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm doing an hour of entertainment. You call
Speaker 1: it stand up, call it whatever you want. The stand
Speaker 1: up aspect is one person in front of a microphone
Speaker 1: standing up there. That's it. So you can't tell me, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it the way you do it. Like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it the way I do it, and
Speaker 1: I'm getting the same result that audience full of people
Speaker 1: is laughing. So I think I think what you said
Speaker 1: performers correct, because there's performance when you're acting, and there's
Speaker 1: performance who are doing stand up or your sketch or whatever.
Speaker 1: So yeah, hello, hello, Hi, Oh my god, I want
Speaker 1: to come through the screen and hug you. Hey, everybody
Speaker 1: Jessica's or here also known as Vanessa Abrams on Gossip Girl.
Speaker 1: I am so excited to share my new podcast with
Speaker 1: you guys. It's called XO XO and it's a walkdown
Speaker 1: memory lane all about Gossip Girl. I'll chat with some
Speaker 1: of the cast crew fans of the show, and I'm
Speaker 1: just so pumped for you guys to go on this
Speaker 1: journey with me. All Right, I made Westwick. I played
Speaker 1: Chuck Bass. I just can't believe that I did that
Speaker 1: with my life, Jay, we had like the most amazing time.
Speaker 1: Listen to XO XO on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Halbern,
Speaker 1: host of deep Cover. Our new season is about a
Speaker 1: lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago. We controlled the courts,
Speaker 1: we controlled absolutely everything. He bribed judges and even helped
Speaker 1: a hit man walk free, until one day when he
Speaker 1: started talking with the FBI and promised that he could
Speaker 1: take the mob down. I've spent the past year trying
Speaker 1: to figure out why he flipped and what he was
Speaker 1: really after. From my perspective, Bob was too good to
Speaker 1: be true. There's gotta be something wrong with this. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't trust that guy. He looks like a little scum,
Speaker 1: big liar stool Bidgeon. He looked like what he was
Speaker 1: or at. I can say with all certainty I think
Speaker 1: he's a hero because he didn't have to do what
Speaker 1: he did, and he did it anyway. The moment I
Speaker 1: put the wire around the first time, my life was over.
Speaker 1: If it ever got out, they would kill me. In
Speaker 1: the heartbeat, listen to deep Cover on the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Give us the over attention. We need everything you've got fast.
Speaker 1: Waiting on Reparations would beat the podcast. Tune in every
Speaker 1: Thursday politics and wordplay. We fight for the people because
Speaker 1: they got us in the worst way, from the Hill Cooper,
Speaker 1: the Bomb Bay, to Cant from the left on Clay
Speaker 1: to what the neo kan say every Thursday, the heavy
Speaker 1: conversation and to break us off with some break because
Speaker 1: we're waiting repas. Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. When did you meet Greg Daniels? I met
Speaker 1: Greg Daniels the first time when I was writing a
Speaker 1: pilot with a writer from King of the Hill, John Callier,
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ Kicker, John Callier, amazing man, amazing writer. So
Speaker 1: we wrote a pilot for the for the Gerald character.
Speaker 1: This is before the Naked Trucker, and it was really good,
Speaker 1: but they didn't understand it at all. They liked it,
Speaker 1: but it never went to pilots. So we wrote the
Speaker 1: script and so Greg would come around. Then say, I
Speaker 1: was a friend of Norm his cock from Saturday Live.
Speaker 1: He was a writer on Saturday Live, Canadian wright who's
Speaker 1: head writing for Kids in the Hall, and so I
Speaker 1: wanted Normal to do it. Norm was too busy because
Speaker 1: he was writing on the King of the Hill and
Speaker 1: doing something else. And then John and I wrote the pilot.
Speaker 1: He was He was fantastic. But anyway, that's when I
Speaker 1: met Greg for the first time, and Norm and I
Speaker 1: were friends, and then Norm and I wrote bunch of
Speaker 1: stuff together. We wrote several scripts for two movie scripts
Speaker 1: for Gerald. They got close and then didn't get made.
Speaker 1: And then Norm was one of the head writers for
Speaker 1: the Naked Trigger and TBone show on Comedy Central. So
Speaker 1: but that's how I met Greg. Yeah. Yeah, So the
Speaker 1: story goes, you're shooting snakes on a plane in Canada.
Speaker 1: In Canada, and you you get a call about coming
Speaker 1: on and appearing on this television show The Office. Now
Speaker 1: I had I had auditioned. You had auditioned for Michael Scott.
Speaker 1: But I was a huge fan of The British Office,
Speaker 1: and as you remember, the pilot episode for the American
Speaker 1: Office borrowed heavily from the pilot episode of the British Office.
Speaker 1: And I couldn't get Ricky gervais rhythms out of my head.
Speaker 1: I couldn't audition because I was like, well, here's how
Speaker 1: he says it. How else would anyone say it? Because
Speaker 1: the way he does it's perfect. So I couldn't. I auditioned,
Speaker 1: but it was neither here nor there because I didn't
Speaker 1: have a take other than what he did. That's so
Speaker 1: interesting because you know, Steve didn't know Ricky Gervais's version
Speaker 1: of the Office, so when he went in he didn't
Speaker 1: have that reference. That's fascinating. So you had met Greg
Speaker 1: then auditioning for Michael, and then they called you about Packer.
Speaker 1: Is that what happened? Yes, As like you said, as
Speaker 1: the story goes, you'd had a wonderful actor who was
Speaker 1: quite capable, but I think he was struggling with it
Speaker 1: for whatever reason and it just wasn't working. And I
Speaker 1: think they all agreed like, oh, this doesn't this isn't
Speaker 1: quite there. So the new guys went on to shoot
Speaker 1: the next episode. I think it might have been episode four,
Speaker 1: and I think this was episode three when Packer comes
Speaker 1: and so Steve. They were, I guess, still auditioning, and
Speaker 1: Steve apparently had said to Greg Daniels, how about Keckner
Speaker 1: for Packer? And I'm sure Gregg was thinking, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: awful um as a human being, let's bring him as
Speaker 1: But no. So with that, you know, I had had
Speaker 1: a pretty good career going. We'd already done Anchorman, so
Speaker 1: you know, you've got the comp pence and you know yourself.
Speaker 1: You know, Packer. To me, it was like, oh my lord,
Speaker 1: you come in and say these awful things to people
Speaker 1: and get away with it. Fun. Plus it's my buddy Steve,
Speaker 1: all right, you know, there's no pressure. Really, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna come in and do it. Okay. Now, had I
Speaker 1: had to audition for it, it would have been different
Speaker 1: because then you're trying rather than like like I said before,
Speaker 1: on s and L. I just went and did what
Speaker 1: I do and it worked, and you get the job.
Speaker 1: You just go do what you do. When you're audition
Speaker 1: for it, you're doing what in your there's part of
Speaker 1: your mind that goes, I'm I'm doing what I hope
Speaker 1: they want. Doesn't help it. It is so smart. That
Speaker 1: is just so smart, because you're right, of course, no
Speaker 1: matter what you're auditioning for, and you know what, what
Speaker 1: did they tell you all the time? Right, make it
Speaker 1: your own, just do your version of it. But no,
Speaker 1: there's always still a place in the back of your
Speaker 1: mind that's going like, oh, well, they must want this
Speaker 1: version of me or that at her that it's that
Speaker 1: is so free, that's so true. I've never told this before,
Speaker 1: but I I borrowed from you and Robin Williams, actually
Speaker 1: the two of you who I started working with. I
Speaker 1: did a few projects with him right around the same time,
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit after. And I'll tell you you.
Speaker 1: I mean to say like Dave was packer all the
Speaker 1: time on set, That's an inaccurate statement. But what I
Speaker 1: mean is is that you were so free and fun
Speaker 1: and brought just an amazing energy to the set every
Speaker 1: single time. You were there and now, whether it was
Speaker 1: because of your confidence or your relationship with Steve and
Speaker 1: you had known Greg and you were like, well, they're
Speaker 1: not gonna fire me or whatever it was, but you know,
Speaker 1: but I just mean, you just came in and it
Speaker 1: was immediately like, we're not doing brain surgery here, guys.
Speaker 1: We're making comedy television and let's make it fun and
Speaker 1: keep the atmosphere light. And I always respected you for that,
Speaker 1: and Robin was the same way on set, just like
Speaker 1: we're not going to take this too seriously, and um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I always I always respected you for that
Speaker 1: and feel like I learned from you about that. I've
Speaker 1: taken to other projects to be like, let's let's keep
Speaker 1: this loose, let's keep this light, because ultimately that energy
Speaker 1: is just way more helpful to creating comedy television. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's a great improv teacher and he runs the Annoyance
Speaker 1: Theater in Chicago, and he's one of my peers in Chicago.
Speaker 1: Guy named Mick Napier, and he's legendary at this point now,
Speaker 1: but he had written a one man show at the
Speaker 1: Annoyance for himself and it was called sex Boy because
Speaker 1: Nick was going through his life and transition of whatever
Speaker 1: he felt his sexuality was, so that was part of it.
Speaker 1: He grew up in a small town in Indiana, and
Speaker 1: you know, I think he may have been buy or whatever,
Speaker 1: but just figuring that whole thing out and putting it
Speaker 1: out on stage. But he had a preamble in his
Speaker 1: program and he said, and I don't know if he
Speaker 1: borrowed it from somewhere else, but he said, it's called
Speaker 1: a play. It's not called a bore or a trial
Speaker 1: or a suffering. It's called a play. So let us
Speaker 1: do that. And I always thought, yes, it's called a play.
Speaker 1: It's called a teleplay, it's called a screenplay. But the
Speaker 1: operative word is to play. And our job is to
Speaker 1: go out and play. And for me, if i'm the
Speaker 1: best day ever is when you've got a job in
Speaker 1: show business. So for me, I'm gonna pay witness to that.
Speaker 1: Today we get to do the thing we wanted to
Speaker 1: do when thousands and thousands and thousands of people who
Speaker 1: want to do what we get to do don't get
Speaker 1: to do it. So let's play and celebrate it. That's
Speaker 1: my attitude, like, let's go have some fun. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: awesome did you feel because again they said come and
Speaker 1: do what you do, that you felt the freedom to
Speaker 1: just do what you do. There was no judgment, there
Speaker 1: was no restraint. So yeah, I didn't. I didn't put
Speaker 1: any guardrails or parameters on what I was gonna do,
Speaker 1: and you never did. Yes. And plus the other thing,
Speaker 1: I knew the characters based on Finchy from the original Office,
Speaker 1: and Finchy was fucking crazy and awful. He's not as
Speaker 1: bad as Finchy. Who remember Finchy takes one of the
Speaker 1: girls from the office and he has sex with her
Speaker 1: in the alleyway and the look on his face is
Speaker 1: just priceless. Yeah, although you did, you know, poop in
Speaker 1: Michael's office and serve laced cupcakes, which actually I thank
Speaker 1: you for that because that was one of my most
Speaker 1: favorite I mean, people talk about the chili or the
Speaker 1: this or that, but one of my most favorite physical
Speaker 1: comedy scenes that I was able to do was like
Speaker 1: the flashback scene with Andy slash ed Helms and I
Speaker 1: after we got dosed up on your cupcakes, maybe my favorite.
Speaker 1: But I feel like your role is a real manifestation
Speaker 1: of what ended up being a central part of the show,
Speaker 1: which was Michael's journey right from I mean clearly a
Speaker 1: friend of yours from early on, or at least wanted
Speaker 1: to seem cool, to be a friend of yours, to
Speaker 1: ultimately sort of, you know, shedding the shackles of you
Speaker 1: and being able to sort of evolve as a human being. Exactly.
Speaker 1: It's the representation of stunted adolescence, right. There are men
Speaker 1: that never grow, and then then they don't when you
Speaker 1: don't care to grow, when you won't take a signal,
Speaker 1: or there's no desire to be a better human, or
Speaker 1: if there's someone suggests that you don't hear it, and
Speaker 1: in fact you try to defeat it, you would chat
Speaker 1: lenge it. And you know, it's just that absolute stubbornness
Speaker 1: that I'm fine, but it's also pain, right, I am
Speaker 1: resolute in my pain, and I won't look at it.
Speaker 1: I will only drown it. I'll drown it with alcohol,
Speaker 1: I'll drown it with my noise, I'll drown it with
Speaker 1: my terrible behavior. And and and then you find out you're
Speaker 1: given license. When you're that horrible, no one dares to
Speaker 1: challenge you because they don't want to be bear the
Speaker 1: brunt of whatever you're gonna bring. They're just like, this
Speaker 1: is a storm that's coming in. Because Packer is not
Speaker 1: there all the time. It's a storm. I'll weather the storm,
Speaker 1: battened down the hashes and wait for it to go away.
Speaker 1: So that's what happens, right, And he's an emotional hand
Speaker 1: grenade and he's a terrible storm. I've never thought of
Speaker 1: that before, but that's exactly what happens. He's a storm
Speaker 1: coming through and I was like, just let it go.
Speaker 1: Let it go, because he's got this Ally and Michael,
Speaker 1: until there are strong women that come into his life
Speaker 1: and say no, no, that's not okay, that's interesting. Now.
Speaker 1: I have you ever run across anyone that this point, Brian,
Speaker 1: And you know this phenomenon as well as I do,
Speaker 1: and it's something I can't quite wrap my head around.
Speaker 1: The phenomenon that is The Office is unlike any television
Speaker 1: show I would say in the history of television. It's
Speaker 1: beyond compare. I've never been part of something this incredible.
Speaker 1: I'm imagining the people from The Sopranos and Game of
Speaker 1: Thrones have the same thing. But the difference is because
Speaker 1: it's The Office and it's a comedy and it brings
Speaker 1: something else to everybody's life. It's so important to people's
Speaker 1: lives and their devotion to it. It changes people's lives
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's a real deep part of their lives.
Speaker 1: And you've heard people say it got me through cancer,
Speaker 1: or it got me through this breakup, or it got
Speaker 1: us together, and it's unlike anything else. Have you ever
Speaker 1: heard anyone who has written a dissertation or their college
Speaker 1: thesis on the office. Oh yeah, well there's first college
Speaker 1: classes now that are to the show. Well, I think
Speaker 1: I think the thing that is, and you know, it's
Speaker 1: part of it. I've been exploring over the last couple
Speaker 1: of years, which I think, as you say, it makes
Speaker 1: it wholly unique from even the shows that you mentioned,
Speaker 1: which was that seven eight years after we filmed anything,
Speaker 1: it was bigger than it was when we were on
Speaker 1: like it continues to expand and grow. Do you have
Speaker 1: an idea of why that is? Here's the way I
Speaker 1: look at it, and what I look at is why
Speaker 1: it appeals to a twelve year old all the way
Speaker 1: to a fifty year old. And beyond the way I
Speaker 1: look at it is when they come to it at twelve,
Speaker 1: they're exploring what they think is adult humor for the
Speaker 1: first time, and they get it and they understand it
Speaker 1: because it's so sharply written, like, oh, jokes can be
Speaker 1: subtle and smart and big and broad and done at
Speaker 1: the same time. So they're starting to see the tapestry
Speaker 1: of humor. And then in high school it's kind of
Speaker 1: like you get that shared communion of you get the
Speaker 1: joke the way I get the joke. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: hip show. There's hip humor in it too. There's the
Speaker 1: obvious stuff, but then there's a saddle stuff, so there's
Speaker 1: another thing. Then in college, I believe it gives you
Speaker 1: that that security blanket of well, I'm gonna have to
Speaker 1: go out in the world and work, but it's not
Speaker 1: so scary because those buffoons on the office seem to
Speaker 1: make it work and so it can't be that scarier place.
Speaker 1: And then when you get into the workplace, you go, oh,
Speaker 1: that's right, Well, at least it's not. Our place is
Speaker 1: better than that place. But there are some people at
Speaker 1: the work in this place that I like that place,
Speaker 1: And as you're gone, then you embrace like where the office.
Speaker 1: So that's why I think there's this thread that runs
Speaker 1: through all of those things. The deep psychological impact. I
Speaker 1: haven't broken that down, but that's the only threat. I
Speaker 1: feel like I kind of have a beat on why
Speaker 1: it's got that appeal from twelve to ninety. But the
Speaker 1: psychological and the psychological thing I probably breaks down to
Speaker 1: a bunch of different categories. And you know what Comedia
Speaker 1: dell artein is and for the for your listeners, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you talked about it. Comedia dell arte is.
Speaker 1: It's an Italian art form and they based their characters there.
Speaker 1: They had eleven archetypes based on these representations of what
Speaker 1: humans were, from low class to high class, but all
Speaker 1: of them were lampooned. And so I know we don't
Speaker 1: have time to break it down, but if you look
Speaker 1: at the office, they are all represented by one of
Speaker 1: the comedy archetypes from Comedia dell arte as our most sitcoms,
Speaker 1: and we're really just making fun of ourselves. And what
Speaker 1: we do is we see ourselves represented on the screen
Speaker 1: in those characters, and it gives us comfort and worth
Speaker 1: and the ability to go on because I belong I'm
Speaker 1: part of something larger than me, and I'm represented here
Speaker 1: and that's me and that person is someone else I
Speaker 1: love and you know, enjoy, or that person is a
Speaker 1: caution and everyone recognizes that that's the worst person. We
Speaker 1: all agree on that is terrible right now. I think
Speaker 1: you're exactly right, you know. I mean, people talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, Michael Scott, the character of Michael Scott, and
Speaker 1: he says inappropriate things, and he says misguided things, but
Speaker 1: I think that throughout the show, you really get to
Speaker 1: know these people, and as mean as he is or
Speaker 1: misguided as he is at times, he has a tremendous
Speaker 1: amount of heart. And all of the characters have a
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of heart, which I think brings comfort. I
Speaker 1: don't know, but that's I think. I think you're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: Every all the regular players on the show, you know,
Speaker 1: we identify was struggle, and so everyone's struggling, but they
Speaker 1: all succeed and they get through, and the best way
Speaker 1: to get through is to have heart and to identify
Speaker 1: with what kindness is and make the better choice. And
Speaker 1: it might take someone several times to make the better choice,
Speaker 1: but you're rooting for them, like, don't do that make
Speaker 1: the right choice please this time? But you know you
Speaker 1: have to not make that right choice a long time
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Speaker 1: I discover the fourth dot Org brought to you by
Speaker 1: the United States Fourth Service and the AD Council. You
Speaker 1: were on SNL. We haven't even talked about, but obviously
Speaker 1: you know huge classic now all time comedy movies. Anchorman
Speaker 1: champ Kind. What is the role now that you have
Speaker 1: done throughout your career that you would say that you
Speaker 1: are are most recognized for. Oh, well, it's Todd Packer
Speaker 1: hands down, and then champ Kind second. It was a
Speaker 1: puzzle to me because after three years of being on,
Speaker 1: just two episodes of season of the Office, when you'd
Speaker 1: see your name in print David Kicker from the Office
Speaker 1: and Anchorman like, wait, no, it's Ackerman in the Office.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not on the Office. I'm barely on
Speaker 1: the Office. But I think the thing about Packer is
Speaker 1: he was referenced a lot in the show, even when
Speaker 1: he's not there, or I think people would feel there's like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, something's going on, things are bad. Is Packer coming?
Speaker 1: I think there's a pervasive feeling like it any is
Speaker 1: a storm on its way? Can we avoid the storm?
Speaker 1: Or just an episode where Packer is gonna show up
Speaker 1: and it's always this loathsome feel like, oh, I don't
Speaker 1: want I don't want the ghosts, the horrible ghost to
Speaker 1: visit tonight. Yes, well, if Packer is coming, there's no
Speaker 1: way to avoid them. Let's just be clear about that. There.
Speaker 1: You might batten down the hatches, but you can't. You
Speaker 1: can't protect yourself. Yes, things are gonna be overturned. I
Speaker 1: do want to mention obviously, you are still incredibly busy
Speaker 1: and successful, and I know right now you're on tour.
Speaker 1: And by the way, I do have to say that,
Speaker 1: I do have to tell you this. People ask me
Speaker 1: now all the time, you know, I say, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: going to this college or I'm going here there, and
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, you know, stand up and I for me,
Speaker 1: you you mentioned sort of this before. I can't even
Speaker 1: call myself a stand up because I feel like it's
Speaker 1: cheating because I didn't go through that before. It's cheating now.
Speaker 1: But you're doing a live show, David Keckner dot com.
Speaker 1: You can grab tickets there. You're going everywhere, right all
Speaker 1: around the country. Yeah, this is the I'm doing more
Speaker 1: dates this year than I ever had before because I'm
Speaker 1: writing a new show and I will be doing a
Speaker 1: special before the end of the year. Yeah. And you know,
Speaker 1: it takes a long time to become a stand up,
Speaker 1: and they say, and I've been doing it long enough
Speaker 1: now that I feel like i can call myself one. Okay,
Speaker 1: But you know, rather than trying to do what everybody
Speaker 1: else is doing, I finally like, no, no, David, You've
Speaker 1: got to embrace the thing that you do and do
Speaker 1: more of that because there's so many great stand ups
Speaker 1: that do so many different things well like that, do
Speaker 1: what you do well, Dave, don't try and be a
Speaker 1: little bit of this and a little bit of that before.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of my show has been a
Speaker 1: little bit of this, a little bit of that, like
Speaker 1: compared to a lot of different influences that we've all had.
Speaker 1: But then at some point you're like, well, what's your
Speaker 1: thing do You're just an hour of just your thing
Speaker 1: the way you want to do it, and they'll come
Speaker 1: good for you to see that. There are moments sometimes
Speaker 1: in shows if I'm doing a character piece where someone
Speaker 1: who's used to the rhythm of the stand up going
Speaker 1: from this joke to another. Now I'm in a character
Speaker 1: like what and you know the thing that I have
Speaker 1: and you have too, is like you've got to say
Speaker 1: the stuff from the office and anchorman because that's what
Speaker 1: got me here. So I do have to do that
Speaker 1: in my show, and I recognize that. So once that's done, like, okay, guys,
Speaker 1: we're done with that. Now comes my turn. I struggle
Speaker 1: with whether to make them wait for it or just
Speaker 1: getting off off the bats. I don't know. I'm the
Speaker 1: same way. I don't There's not an answer. Okay, there's
Speaker 1: you know, it's up to you. I think what I've done,
Speaker 1: I've done both. I've done where I do it right away,
Speaker 1: and I've done where I do it halfway through. And
Speaker 1: I sometimes will do it when they yell right. You know,
Speaker 1: after fifteen minutes, someone will yell whammy, and I know
Speaker 1: they can't even pay attention to my show until they
Speaker 1: hear whammy. It's almost like, Okay, I'll give you a whammy.
Speaker 1: It's almost like a kid, all Right, you're gonna get
Speaker 1: one cookie and then we're gonna you know, then we're
Speaker 1: going home or whatever they We're gonna settle in and
Speaker 1: watch the movie. Yes, you get popcorn and soda pop.
Speaker 1: Then you've gotta be quiet for the whole movie. But
Speaker 1: there is that because there's people who just can't stand it.
Speaker 1: When's he gonna say whammy? What's he gonna say? What's up?
Speaker 1: My nerds? I can't to hear you say what's up?
Speaker 1: My nerds? I get it you and I can't run
Speaker 1: from this. It's it's what got them in the seats
Speaker 1: in the first places. That is through. I can't leave
Speaker 1: you without talking about the Kansas City Chiefs. Maybe the
Speaker 1: greatest game in the history of the NFL, the Buffalo
Speaker 1: Bills losing somehow with thirteen seconds left on the clock
Speaker 1: and Kansas City coming through. What your experience watching the
Speaker 1: last thirteen plus seconds of that game, Well, I'd be
Speaker 1: a liar if I didn't say I had availed myself
Speaker 1: to the idea that it's okay, okay, it's okay. I
Speaker 1: knew we were playing the best other team in my
Speaker 1: estimation in the game this year. I knew that the
Speaker 1: Buffalo Bills would be our toughest opponent of the year.
Speaker 1: We've got so many weapons, You've got so much hope,
Speaker 1: and we've got my homes and all of them. You
Speaker 1: don't just say we've got my homes. We've got my
Speaker 1: homes and Kelsey and Hill and Pringle and everybody you know,
Speaker 1: and Williams and Edwards Hilaire on that front line. We've
Speaker 1: got everything. But there is something about the magic of
Speaker 1: these two quarterbacks, Alan and Mahomes, and they both kept
Speaker 1: doing it, and it's you know, it's only about the time,
Speaker 1: because they would have come back and scored, yeah, back
Speaker 1: and forth all night. Yeah, we just happened to have
Speaker 1: the ball. Alan played an absolutely perfect game and lost
Speaker 1: and lost. Um so I was willing. I was willing
Speaker 1: to accept defeat. I wasn't defeated. I was willing to go, Okay,
Speaker 1: well we put it all out there too, and I
Speaker 1: can't believe they came back after what we just did.
Speaker 1: And there there's never because there's always talking about time
Speaker 1: management and football. You left him too much time? You like,
Speaker 1: you're like, what, you left him too much time? There's
Speaker 1: thirteen seconds. Then you know you can't second guess their coach. Right,
Speaker 1: let's put him deep on. Everyone could say you should
Speaker 1: have swibbed it. You should have kicked an on side kick.
Speaker 1: You shaid it, well, the should should and then how
Speaker 1: are you gonna go? You know seventy yards that's not
Speaker 1: going to happen. Well, yeah, well the special team it
Speaker 1: does and it's okay, and you've got to be part
Speaker 1: of a special game. And I felt too, was like, god,
Speaker 1: do we start saying this is the greatest game. I
Speaker 1: was at the Colosseum when the Chiefs and the Rams
Speaker 1: scored a hundred and nine points and kept going back
Speaker 1: and forth. That was an amazing game. We lost that one,
Speaker 1: but the lesson was we were right there. We could
Speaker 1: do it. We scored forty summer fifty points, right, like
Speaker 1: we can do it. So yeah, it to be part
Speaker 1: of a great game is something else. Yeah, it was amazing.
Speaker 1: If you are playing in the super Bowl, good luck,
Speaker 1: and if you're not, well you won. I think the
Speaker 1: greatest game in the NFL history, the best game I've
Speaker 1: ever seen. Yeah, I don't see how we're not there.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty confident. But you know, one game, one day
Speaker 1: at a time, and I know you and Aaron are close,
Speaker 1: and uh, that's tough. Yeah, that was not as fun.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest. I was hoping. I was hoping it
Speaker 1: was going to be uh, the Chiefs and the Packers.
Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be. I did too.
Speaker 1: I thought I was pretty sure that's that's and I
Speaker 1: thought that's going to be an incredible game because we
Speaker 1: didn't play the Packers. We played the Packers without Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1: Earlier in the season. We didn't beat the Packers. We
Speaker 1: beat the Packers without Aaron Rodgers. That's not the Packers, right. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: good luck, enjoy enjoy it, and Dave, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for coming on. Pleasure, appreciate you so much and
Speaker 1: sharing well you're inside about the office but also I
Speaker 1: think some amazing words for for anyone who not only
Speaker 1: has a dream of being an entertainer or in this business,
Speaker 1: but but really any business. So thank you, my friend.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you as well. Double be great to spend
Speaker 1: time with you. Thank God for chechno aology so we
Speaker 1: can hang out and it's wonderful. All my brother, best
Speaker 1: your family, have a great day. That was amazing, David,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for stopping by. Funny I expected
Speaker 1: Deep I did not, but hey, I loved it. All
Speaker 1: of you out there listening, that was great, right, I
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed it. Off the Beat is going to
Speaker 1: be freaking awesome. I'm so excited. I'm gonna be back
Speaker 1: next week here with the man who brought the Office
Speaker 1: to the States once again, Ben Silverman. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: a bitter sweet episode, but I cannot wait to go
Speaker 1: off the Beat with all of you. I'll see you then.
Speaker 1: The Office. Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by
Speaker 1: me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our producers
Speaker 1: are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia. Our theme song Bubble
Speaker 1: and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and
Speaker 1: the episode was mixed by Seth Olandsky. I'm Sarah Wendell
Speaker 1: and for close to twenty years, I've been a wildly
Speaker 1: recognized expert in the world of romance. And I'm Alicia Ry,
Speaker 1: best selling author of over twenty romance novels. Introducing I
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