1 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 8 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 9 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 11 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: for joining me for session four Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. 12 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: We'll get right into our conversation afterword from our sponsors. 13 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: This week, we're discussing a crisis that's disrupting lives across 14 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: the country, the escalating wave of deportations, tearing families apart 15 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: and dismantling the fragile sense of safety many immigrants cling to. Today, 16 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: I'm joined by Catherine Laberon, a writer, organizer, and research 17 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: manager whose work lives at the intersections of immigration, justice, 18 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: black liberation, and mental health. Catherine has spent her career 19 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: advocating for black immigrants whose stories are too often erased 20 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: from national conversations. She first began making sense of injustice 21 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: through poetry, transforming personal experience into a practice of healing 22 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: and resistance. Today, her work centers around archiving black mirgareant 23 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: wisdom and building safe spaces for those navigating distant placement, identity, 24 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: and systemic injustice. Katherine and I discussed the emotional toll 25 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: of migration, the resilience of African and Caribbean diasporic communities, 26 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: and explore the ways art, community care, and protecting joy 27 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: become lifelines in the face of racism and erasure. If 28 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share 29 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session, 30 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: or join us over in our Patreon channel Let's talk 31 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: more about the episode. You can join us at community 32 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation, Catherine, 33 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today. 34 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. 35 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited to chat with you and would love 36 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: to start by hearing more about your backgrounds or you 37 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: have worked at the intersection of immigration, justice, and mental 38 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: health and liberation for quite some time. Now, so what 39 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: got you into this fuel and can you tell us 40 00:02:58,960 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: more about your work. 41 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 2: So I'm Nigerian. I was born in New York, raised 42 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 2: in London, and as a young black girl growing up 43 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,839 Speaker 2: in Northwest London, I was very aware of the mistreatment 44 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: of immigrants in the country. I just have this visceral 45 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 2: feeling around the disparities and the injustices that we were experiencing, 46 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 2: even before I had the language to describe it. So 47 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: in my childhood, poetry became the avenue for me to 48 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: make sense of some of the things that I was 49 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: feeling and witnessing in London. And the more I started 50 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 2: telling my own personal story, the more I felt that 51 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: poetry was this alchemizing force for me to be able 52 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: to heal and make sense of my suffering. And I 53 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: wanted to accompany other young black girls and doing the 54 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: same to access that liberation and healing that art't mix possible. 55 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 2: So my core within the work that I do in 56 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 2: service of black migrants is thinking about storytelling, thinking about 57 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: archiving our wisdom, our strategies, all of the things have 58 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: been passed on to us throughout generations so that we 59 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: can continue to fight for justice for all people. So 60 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: I always round in my background in terms of ancestry 61 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: and writing, and that has led me to work across advotacy, 62 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: research and policy spaces. 63 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and a lot of your work has been policy. 64 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: So what does a day to day look like for 65 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: you currently? 66 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 2: It looks like so many different things because I work 67 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: at the intersection of so many different movements from racial justice, 68 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 2: gender justice, migrant justice. Everything is very intersectional. So I 69 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 2: don't think there's any typical day to day because the 70 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 2: sociopolitical climate that we are in is continuously shifting, like 71 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: continuous and new stresses that people are experiencing. But I 72 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 2: would say again, the core is thinking about how do 73 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 2: we research what's happening, How do we ensure that people 74 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 2: on the ground are informed and there are the actions that 75 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: they can take. How can we ensure that we're doing 76 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 2: this work in a way that truly sens people and 77 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: their needs, And how we also archiving the impact of 78 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: what that we're doing so that we do want duplicate 79 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 2: efforts from the future. And I now have the honor 80 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 2: of doing that with several different organizations as a consultant. 81 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: So really just tailoring my work to support the organization 82 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: and Efflective's needs. 83 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 1: Can you say more about what led you to developing 84 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: your consulting firm where you identifying gaps that organizations needed 85 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: help with wood led you there? 86 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: Sure? Yeah, again, I think what led me there is 87 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: this insistence that there is a deep interdependence between art 88 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: and activism and in order to do this work, whether 89 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 2: it's naming disparities that we are seeing or shining light 90 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:50,119 Speaker 2: on injustice. For me, art is the mechanism that makes 91 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: all things possible, that allows people to be truly engaged 92 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: from the work that makes people remember details. So my 93 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 2: consulting work is being able to shed light on those 94 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 2: kinds of intersections so that even as we are bringing 95 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: people together, they are using their hands to create part 96 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: and they're taking it away. They are journaling with their 97 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 2: grandmothers about what their grandmother experienced in Civil War. You know, 98 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 2: they are thinking about the music that they can create, 99 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 2: the sounds that they remember from childhood. So yeah, I 100 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 2: think that's kind of what pushed me into it is just, yes, 101 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: wanting to do work around justice, but then also being 102 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 2: an artist myself and not seeing them separate things, thinking 103 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: that they can both live together and that when you 104 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 2: bring artists and activisms and room magic happens. 105 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: And you mentioned that so much of your passion has 106 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,679 Speaker 1: been fueled by your old childhood experiences, right, and noticing 107 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: some of the discrepancies and the disparities. Can you say 108 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: more about like what you saw as a child and 109 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: maybe how that looks different, if at all, to what 110 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: we are seeing now. 111 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, as I mentioned the drop up in London, 112 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: I think about the high school that I was in 113 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 2: very often where we were not allowed to braid our hair. 114 00:06:57,960 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: Black girls are not allowed to webraids. If you have 115 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 2: in your head, you be set home. Black boys can't 116 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: allowed to cut their heads too shorts if they didn't 117 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 2: feel to set home, and that was my brother's experienced, 118 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 2: and if they had their head too long, they would 119 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 2: also be set home. So there was just no way 120 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: that you could express yourself for your culture and your 121 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: identity without that being punished. And then just seeing the 122 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: way that like migrants and running retreated lower wages that 123 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: they experienced living under continuous sphere of deportation. Yeah, it 124 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: wasn't the kind of childhood that were centered on play 125 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: and fun at times, even though we found our own 126 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 2: abnues and pathways to make that possible structurally with in society, 127 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 2: it was likely what being punished to existing theath So. 128 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: You're already talking about I think some of the like 129 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: emotional weight that the immigrant process looks like, even for children, right, 130 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: So I definitely want to shift more to talking about 131 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: like where we find ourselves now and what the experience 132 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: is typically like in the emotional toll that can have, 133 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: especially when there are restrictive administrations like the one we 134 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: have now. 135 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: So yes, it's a way to constantly being made to 136 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: question your place in the country and whether you belong. 137 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 2: We're always living with this fear being detained or reported. 138 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 2: And even if you will say for being yourself, you 139 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: are concerned about the people that you care about, your 140 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 2: loved ones, it makes you clap the vigilant and concern 141 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: around them. To trust you may be collaborating with ICE, 142 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 2: we may give more information over so your body is 143 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: always in this state or flight or flight, and we 144 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 2: know that that that of course have very carmful consequences 145 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 2: when that becomes chronic. Even when you are just falling 146 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 2: on your phone or looking at the news, you're seeing 147 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 2: things like ICE has been given huge quotas of like 148 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 2: three thousand arrests to make a day, and they're being 149 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: given signing bonuses, we're joining if they want to sign 150 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 2: up as ice offices. It's just is this consistent reminder 151 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 2: that your life is being seen as disposable. And even 152 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: if you want to advocate and speak up against the 153 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 2: injustices that people are experiencing, saying who are scared that 154 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: you're advocacy could therefore lead to you also being deported 155 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 2: as well. So it's a process of also feeling like 156 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 2: you are silent. And there are people who are in 157 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 2: the process of mentally preparing to be deported to countries 158 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 2: where they have known memories, no family, don't network, seeing 159 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 2: as they have made home tears, so they are effectively 160 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: and told to start over without any support in doing so. 161 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 2: So they're just as helpless. List of the different ways 162 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 2: that impacts people, including children of course, who are been 163 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: scared to go to school or for preparents to go 164 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 2: to work because they are living in the reality that 165 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 2: that may be the last time that they see their parents. 166 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: H And can you speak to camp and like, what 167 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: does support look like? I would imagine there may be 168 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: community gatherings or you know, talking with people who understand 169 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: this whole process. What does support look like when you 170 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: are under like this constant fear? 171 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it involves being able to lean on 172 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: if that were connected with But you know, I pause 173 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 2: and saying that because for some black migrants there isn't 174 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 2: that community network. They are coming here by themselves, so 175 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 2: that support sometimes can be fleeting. But people have mentioned, 176 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: of course wanting to support from therapists and be able 177 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 2: to manage their mental health. But even with that, a 178 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: lot of people experience cost barriers. So the real question 179 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 2: we ask is around having affordable access to therapy, especially 180 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 2: for Black migrants. I know people find a lot of 181 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 2: solace in their places of worship, so sometimes people may 182 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 2: go to church or moss, but even now there is 183 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 2: a lot of fear around even going to places of 184 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 2: worship due to fears of ice raids as well. There 185 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 2: are organizations that are brilliant about offering community care in 186 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 2: these ways and offering your rights trainings, legal supports and 187 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 2: so on. Some of those organizations are the Black Lines 188 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,599 Speaker 2: for Just Immigration, Patient Women for Haitian Refuges, Patent Bridge Alliance, 189 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: African Communities Together, Freedoms Immigrants, and DOCU Black BLMP, and 190 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 2: I'm naming these organizations just in case anyone would like 191 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,599 Speaker 2: to look up their work and connect with them. So, 192 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: despite all of the structural limitations for people seeing support, 193 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 2: there are ways in which ministries are organizing mutual aid 194 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 2: funds to try and support people in these times as well. 195 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 1: Thank you for that, Catherine. More from our conversation after 196 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: the break. You know, there is often the misconception that 197 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: immigration only impacts like Latin communities, right, which leaves this 198 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: whole population of black migrants out. Can you talk about 199 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: the horn that that kind of misconception does, especially for 200 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: the black migrant experience. 201 00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 2: Yes, it basically, well, it is sensep anti blackness. It's 202 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 2: centered on trying to erase black migrants from the conversation 203 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: around immigration. It leads to our visibilization when it comes 204 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 2: to resources and the supports that we can have access to, 205 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 2: and we see this happen in a variety of rates, 206 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 2: for example of language justice. For example, when we think 207 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 2: about the languages that resources are translated to, it's rarely 208 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: translated into African and Fribean languages, which means that our 209 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 2: people are missing vital is information. And we know that 210 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 2: black migrants are disproportionately infected via see of these policies, 211 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 2: especially when we think about frommigration and the ways in 212 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 2: which black migrants are over policed and have higher risks 213 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 2: of deportation due to these contacts, even if they are 214 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: never charged with a crime, So even one violent crimes 215 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 2: can lead to deportation, and this of course means that 216 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 2: they are higher risk of being rationally profiled, more likely 217 00:12:55,160 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: to experience police brutality, prison solitary confinement and retention, importation 218 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 2: and so on. And then when we look at Pump's 219 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 2: travel band, for example, we see that many of the 220 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 2: countries impacted by that are African and Phobian countries like 221 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 2: Katiboth than Smart Year. So again a case of anti 222 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 2: blackness and the way in which we see racial injustice 223 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 2: using morphobia is affection. 224 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: Are there any recent statistics or case studies that you 225 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: have that can really highlight how ice is disproportionately targeting 226 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: the black community. 227 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: So black migrants make up five percent of the indocuments 228 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: of population, but they make up twenty percent of the 229 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 2: migrants who are facing removable due to criminal convictions. Black 230 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 2: migrants are six times more likely to be solitary confinement 231 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 2: in detention, they are also well than two times more 232 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: likely to be reduced when in detention. And when we 233 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 2: look at determination of temporary protected status, for example, in 234 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 2: the case of patient immigrants, that would leave over five 235 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 2: hundred thousand people vulnerable to deportation, as well as migrants 236 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 2: from countries Mike, Sudan and Marine. And one of the 237 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: cases that I have currently been keeping my eye on 238 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 2: is that of one to Just who was taken into 239 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 2: detention following Ady Stock and his partner currently does not 240 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: know where he is. So the information that she has 241 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 2: received is that he's experiencing severe nosebleeds and there are 242 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 2: concerns around the food and eir quality in the environment 243 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 2: that he's in. But she's been trying to locate him. 244 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 2: And I'm also thinking of Forgey, who's a thirty nine 245 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 2: year old black disabled migrant who went to traffic ports 246 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 2: and on the courthouse steps he was kidnapped by ice 247 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 2: and he's currently experiencing mental and physical health issues as well. Now. 248 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 2: So there are several fund raisers to try and secure 249 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 2: legal representation, but there are just so many places they're endless, 250 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 2: and we're seeing that the climate slave is bos and 251 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: West day by day. 252 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you shedding light on the Katherine because 253 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: I was just thinking, like some of the more high 254 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: file cases where ICE has kidnapped people, I don't feel 255 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: like I've heard them be any Black migrants right, Like, 256 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: it feels like they are not typically members of the 257 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: black community. So I'm really appreciative of you sharing that. 258 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: It feels like that is another instance of you know, 259 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: like the black community in anti blackness really proliferating conversations 260 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: around immigration and coverage around what's happening. So how do 261 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: intersecting identities like being black, undocumented, queer, and training and 262 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: shape their immigrant experience in ways that can compound trauma 263 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: and risk. 264 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 2: Yes, so there are many black migrants have left home 265 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 2: countries that had homophobic and transphobic environments, policies and practices, 266 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: places where they could be killed or incarcerated for being 267 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 2: paratrans to come to the US where the attacks on 268 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 2: LGBTYE plus people are increasing. So it means being exposed 269 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 2: to compounding full of trauma and being disproportionately vulnerable to violence. 270 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 2: They are experiencing attacks on all fronts at this time 271 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: due to those intersections that you named race, gender, sexuality, immigration, status, 272 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 2: and so on. The prejudices that queer and trans people 273 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: are experiencing, including in immigrant communities, that make it harder 274 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 2: for them to have community. It deepens the feeling of isolation. 275 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 2: Even when we think about seeking health care, for example, 276 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 2: they have increasing fears around medical violence, use of being black, 277 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 2: and trends. So when I think about these intersections of identities, 278 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: I feel like there just needs to be way more 279 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 2: advocacy and way more visibility around the needs that black 280 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: and documented queer and trans people are experiencing. And there 281 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 2: are organizations, including those dimensioned but specifically the LMP, who 282 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 2: is doing great work to combat into these injustices that 283 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 2: these multies are experiencing. 284 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: So I wonder are you able to highlight any particular 285 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: experiences for black women migrants, because you know, we know 286 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: that that experience is different, right, and I would imagine 287 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: it's no different for the migrant experience. Are there any 288 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: particular nuances that you can highlight there? 289 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, LA migrant women are more likely to experience 290 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 2: sexual and gender based violence at different points of their 291 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 2: migration journey, so it could happen when they are in 292 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 2: the home countries on their way to the US while 293 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 2: they're in the US, So we've had several counts of 294 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 2: people just experiencing compounding forms of violence and then of 295 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 2: course coming here and not having access to healthcare or 296 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 2: ways to heal from the trauma that they'd experience. They 297 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 2: are more likely to make less money and live below 298 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: the poverty line, which means that it's even more difficult 299 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: for them to be caregivers to look after their children 300 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 2: and elders and their families and communities and so on. 301 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: They are more likely to experience health issues and biases 302 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 2: in medical institutions that are difficult to navigate, these language barriers, 303 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 2: and they're all so more likely to experience domestic violence. 304 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 2: I may not know good to turn to due to 305 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 2: fear of speaking out, and that impacting their ability to 306 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 2: remain in the country. So definitely we see lots of 307 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 2: the trends that black women in general experience, unfortunately, and 308 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 2: how that kind of translates inverts about black micro women experience. 309 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: And you mentioned earlier herethan that some of what a 310 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: lot of the other organizations are offering are things like 311 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: know your Rights kind of campaigns, and it kind of 312 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: feels like, is there anything that people can do to 313 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: protect themselves right now given their ice agents or just 314 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: showing up have hazardly and taking people in without any 315 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: real rhyme or reason. When you talk about like knowing 316 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: your rights, like, are there things that you can point 317 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: to and or offer for people who may be worried 318 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: about detention and things they need to maybe have on 319 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: their person. 320 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the noneral rights trainings, I know that there 321 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 2: are several organizations that also have like physical parts just 322 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 2: to keep people keep at the top of people's minds 323 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 2: their right to remain silent or right to seek legal representation, 324 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 2: and they have it translated into several languages. So I 325 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 2: think that that is a useful thing to keep in mind. 326 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 2: I think there are mental health resources that are being 327 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 2: offered by several organizations, with therapists even offering free therapy 328 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 2: sessions for people to help them decompress and do that 329 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 2: work around regulating their nervous systems, which is important. I 330 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 2: always advocate for people when possible to try and think 331 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 2: about community safety plans with people that they trust again 332 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 2: if that's possible, if they haven't trusted people, so that 333 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 2: they can think about alternatives to calling the police. Seeingers 334 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 2: that we know that police in ice go hand in 335 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,719 Speaker 2: hand as well. So it's difficult, definitely to think about 336 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 2: the solution because everyone's situation is different. But I think 337 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: just starting with connecting with some of these organizations on 338 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 2: the ground, especially that have mutual aid funds some of 339 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 2: these organizations, or supporting people and even just getting groceries 340 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 2: delivered because they're fearful of their into supermarkets themselves. Thinking 341 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: about this tangible instatasies and meet them back and also 342 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 2: they're a really long way and allowing people to feel 343 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: cared for and seen. 344 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: You already mentioned some concerns around the travel bands and 345 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: how those impact like Caribbean countries and other black countries. 346 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: Are there other laws or things that you expect to 347 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: be put in place that are on the pipeline or 348 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: being discussed right now that we expect to disproportionately impact 349 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: black migrants. 350 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, So for me, I'm not aware of things that 351 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 2: are currently in the pipeline, but I would say that 352 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 2: what I'm unfortunately sassin about is just the increased in 353 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 2: criminalization of black migrant communities. I think that we are 354 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: just going to see the increased presence of police and 355 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 2: the increased collaboration between police and ICE and other institutions 356 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 2: to make people even more fearful around experiencing and receiving 357 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 2: services that are life saving, including just seeking medical care. 358 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 2: And also I just think we're going to see a 359 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 2: lot more around just the infringement of people's data security 360 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 2: and rites with people's information being handed over to ICE 361 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 2: to make more rests and to try and increase this 362 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 2: detention to deportation pipeline. 363 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, you've already talked a little bit about this also, Catherine, 364 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 1: But are there any things in particular that you want 365 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: to highlight about black girls in the migrant experience, especially 366 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: people are separated from families, like anything that you want 367 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: to kind of call attention to about how that's impacting 368 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: black girls. 369 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: I think for black girls, again, as I mentioned, when 370 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 2: you are in an environment where you are thinking and 371 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 2: concerned about your safety, your belonging the second and belonging 372 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 2: of people and your family and your communities, there are 373 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 2: parts of your childhood that become sacrificed. There is a 374 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 2: way in which you are forced into knowing more and 375 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 2: that you are trying to be in defense of the 376 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 2: people that you care about. It makes you just scared 377 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 2: to do things that children should do, make friends, playing, 378 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 2: tell people things about yourself. So I have a very 379 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 2: soft spot for young black girls because I just wish 380 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 2: that there was a different reality that was possible for them. 381 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 2: And I know that in this time, in this moment, 382 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 2: especially with the increase that we are seeing around these 383 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,479 Speaker 2: anti immigrant policies, that people are breathing like it's summer 384 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 2: and it's sunny and ideally kids should be Oxford just 385 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: enjoying themselves, but people are living in hiding right now. 386 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, more from our conversation after the break, and I 387 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: would imagine there's probably increasing fear about what happens when 388 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: the school year starts again, right Like, I feel like 389 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,719 Speaker 1: we saw some conversations around ice showing up at school 390 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: at school was ending this year, and so you know, 391 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: with a new school year on the horizon, I would 392 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: imagine there was an increasing fear there. 393 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly. This is no break, whether you're home 394 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 2: from school, whether they're at school, whether you're at home, 395 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 2: whether you're outside, it's just as consistently for just being 396 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 2: scaped of goddesses what you are. 397 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: You've already offered a lot of suggestions. But is there 398 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: anything else that you'd like to offer to families or 399 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: people who might be, you know, worried about ice or 400 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: how to protect themselves, anything else tangible that they should 401 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: be aware of about how to protect themselves and their families. 402 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 2: Yes, so I would encourage people that care about ammunities 403 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 2: that'll be impacted by these anti immigrant policies to amplify 404 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 2: the stories that they're seeing, especially with black migrants, seeing 405 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 2: as we married that we're experiencing so much for rasia 406 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 2: from media and all these platforms. People can also so 407 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 2: consider participating in court Watch, which involves volunteering to accompany 408 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 2: people support so that they know they're not alone and 409 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 2: that the judges of attorneys also know that there's a 410 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 2: community trying to hold them accountable. People can also volunteer 411 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 2: for detention hotlines to be able to communicate with people, 412 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 2: send letters to people detention, sign for petitions. I think 413 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 2: people can also post when they see ice in places. 414 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of people in New York do 415 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 2: that when they see that there's an ice presence somewhere, 416 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 2: Just notifying people so that they can organize themselves accordingly, 417 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 2: and then also for service providers if it's possible, I 418 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 2: would really encourage people to consider offering low cost for 419 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 2: free sessions to black migrants who are trying to navigate 420 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 2: the trauma that they're experiencing at this time. 421 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: You know, Okay, then you bring up a good point. 422 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: And I feel like I've seen a lot of stories 423 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: around like if not identifying themselves, right, they're not necessarily 424 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: dressed in like uniform and so how do you even 425 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: know if you are having an encounter with an ICE 426 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: agent or like that there is a collection of them somewhere? 427 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: Is there any way to tell? 428 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that's one of the scariest parts that 429 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 2: people are just literally being kidnapped by people who they 430 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 2: cannot even identify, and their communities are not even aware 431 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: of what's happening until it's too late, often or until 432 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 2: they're already being detained. So what you're naming is actually 433 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 2: part of the scariest parts about it is that it's 434 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 2: almost like a mob that is just going and taking 435 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 2: people off the streets. 436 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and because there isn't necessarily any identification, it doesn't 437 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: feel like there's a real way to follow somebody, like 438 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: if they have been detained, right, Like how do you 439 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: even identify where somebody is in the system or maybe 440 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: where they've been deported if you weren't able to get 441 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 1: any real information like from the person who detained them. 442 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's very difficult. I know that the 443 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 2: organizations believe that's trying to form like detention trackers and 444 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 2: things like that, But as I mentioned with the caser 445 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 2: like Ronny do just like his partner, really doesn't know 446 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: what he is at his time. So there's a lot 447 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 2: of tiqueness to the system which makes it even more 448 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 2: scary and makes it even more possible for people to 449 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 2: be taken and deported. 450 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: So you mentioned a couple of ways that people can 451 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: be good allies right on court Wach you mentioned writing letters. 452 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: Are there specific legislators that we need to be writing 453 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: to or talking with? What kind of other advocacy things 454 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: people want to get involved in that could help with 455 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: some of this. 456 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 2: Yes, I think that that would be great, And they're 457 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 2: definitely organizations like the ones are listed who have those 458 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 2: lists of people that are currently trying to target doing 459 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,479 Speaker 2: a love work on the hill to try and ensure 460 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 2: that there are some advocacy happening there. So I would 461 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 2: say a good starting place is to connect with the 462 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 2: organizations on the ground who don't go work and see 463 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 2: the different people that they are trying to contact at 464 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 2: this time to try and build power in that way. 465 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: You've offered several different organizations that you said are offering 466 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: access to therapy. Are there other mental health services that 467 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: you would like to see being provided to black migrants 468 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: to this community at this time? 469 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that so many black migrants have different 470 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 2: spiritual practices. For example, myself, I'm Menagering, I'm Europa and 471 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 2: our people, well, some of our people practice lyfar and 472 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 2: different forms of spiritual practices. So thinking about more holistic 473 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 2: ways of thinking about mental and spiritual health feels important. 474 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 2: So for anyone who is a service provider in ers 475 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 2: that maybe do not fall under traditional forms of therapy, 476 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 2: even things like reiki, people that even do things in 477 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 2: the realm of like astrology, people are just like yearning 478 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 2: for different forms of no and healing in this time, 479 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 2: and I think it's all important. So I know that's 480 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 2: a lot of times people like you know, I don't 481 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 2: do this, this would be useful, But our people now 482 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 2: are open to allferings because they're all different and have 483 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 2: different areas that we would like to experience cair and support. 484 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 2: So I think really just thinking of out of the 485 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 2: box around what you can offer and seeing how you 486 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 2: can also ensure that people that are directly impacted by 487 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 2: these issues know that you have these offerings of noble 488 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 2: and I actually have a mental health database on my 489 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 2: website where I include like a list of some of 490 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 2: these offerings from people that I know are offering free 491 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 2: to low cost therapy options. 492 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: Beautiful. I appreciate that. And my next question was going 493 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: to be, would you suggest like connecting maybe with one 494 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: of the organizations that you have listed, because I would 495 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: imagine with so much fear, like you don't want to 496 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: just say like, oh, I'm offering this group for people, 497 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: and people don't know how to trust that, like you're 498 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: actually creating a safe space. So would the best way 499 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: be to actually connect with somebody else who's already like 500 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: a trusted partner in this work so that you can 501 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: share your offerings. 502 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think that's a really great idea. I 503 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 2: think the more comfortable that people feel with the sanvice provider, 504 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 2: the easier is for them to feel like it can 505 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 2: reach out. But then I suppose I think that there's 506 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 2: net and being able to share on your platforms as well, 507 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 2: if you have like a presence, whether it's on social 508 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 2: media or otherwise, that Hi, I'm this person, Here's my 509 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 2: background is one trying to offer Here's why I'm trying 510 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 2: to offer it. Here are the steps I will take 511 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 2: to try and ensure your safety as we engaged with 512 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 2: each other. I think the more thought that can be 513 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 2: shared suddenly will share the true intentions of a person 514 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 2: and will make people more comfortable reaching out to them. 515 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: Can you give any insight onto what kinds of platforms 516 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: people may want to use, Like I understand that things 517 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: like signal or other platforms may be a better way 518 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: to communicate with people than maybe just like your regular 519 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: text messages. Can you offer any insight into what kinds 520 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: of platforms to use and maybe ensure a further safety. 521 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, so signal definitely, And I think on Signal there's 522 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 2: several settings around just allowing things to disappear. Also, people 523 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 2: maybe not using their actual names even on signal, turning 524 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 2: off notifications when you are traveling and you're landing in, 525 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 2: turning your phone off, turning off base ID when you 526 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 2: are at convenings, example, conferences, if you can ask people 527 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 2: to not share their location while they're there. Now on 528 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 2: people's stories, sometimes they want to share where they're at 529 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 2: and what they're doing, but if they could hold off 530 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 2: and do that after, that will help protect the safety 531 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 2: of people. For researchers trying to use encrypted databases that 532 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 2: offer you their ability to put passwords and have a 533 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 2: separate key and to take away identifiable information, or even 534 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,479 Speaker 2: just not asking demographic information if it's not needed. So, 535 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 2: depending on the field, I think there are different ways 536 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 2: that people can go about trying to enforce and ensure 537 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 2: that people are as safe as possible. 538 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: Kevin, is there any message of hope or resistance that 539 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: you would like to share for people who may be 540 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: feeling overwhelmed by this process, anything that you can offer. 541 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 2: Yes, I would remind them that they belong. They belong, 542 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 2: they belong, that they are inherently worthy and valuable, that 543 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 2: will continue to fight for them, will continue to organize 544 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 2: for them, That they deserve community, they deserve care. Yeah, 545 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 2: I think that's just a reminder of the inherent welthiness 546 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 2: and the inherent ability that they should have to be here, 547 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 2: and that there are several people on the ground, visireful, 548 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 2: talented people on the ground who are fighting for them 549 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 2: day in and day out. Thank you for that. 550 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: So where can we stay connected with you? Catherine? What 551 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: is your website as well as any social media channel? 552 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: What you'd like to share? 553 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 2: Yes, so, my name is Katherine Labyn, My website is 554 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 2: Catherine Labron dot com. My whole name is c A 555 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 2: t h E r I n E la b I 556 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 2: r a n. And the website is Kaprinelabyn dot com. 557 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 2: Social media at cats Labyron so c at hs la 558 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 2: b I r A N. Yeah, if you reach out 559 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 2: to me on any of those platforms, I would love 560 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 2: to sit the next and talk to you more about 561 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 2: any of the things to be spoken about today. 562 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us, Katherine. I appreciate it. 563 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 2: Thank you. 564 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,719 Speaker 1: I was so inspired by my conversation with Katherine, and 565 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: I hope that you took away a lot from this 566 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: episode as well. To learn more about Katherine or to 567 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: check out the resources she shared, be sure to visit 568 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: our show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com 569 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: slash session for twenty seven, and don't forget to text 570 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,239 Speaker 1: this episode to two of your girls right now and 571 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: tell them to check it out. Did you know that 572 00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: you could leave us a voicemail with your questions or 573 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: cogestions for the podcast. 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This episode was produced 584 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: by Aleise Ellis, Indytubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done 585 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me 586 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation 587 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: with you all real soon. Take good care,