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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks.

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Speaker 1: And we continue now with part two of our conversation

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Speaker 1: with Rha Cooper right after these brief messages from our

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Speaker 1: generals sponsors. I remember the first time I heard the

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Speaker 1: term white privilege, and it pissed me off because I

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Speaker 1: didn't feel real privilege. And I'm white as hell. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm redheaded, light skin, I'm white. They ain't no mistaken

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Speaker 1: this whiteness. And I grew up in apartments. I did

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Speaker 1: describe to you a little bit about how I grew up.

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Speaker 1: You know, I went to school with the uncool clothes

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Speaker 1: on because those were the cheapest things that my mom

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Speaker 1: could afford. You know, back in the day in the

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Speaker 1: South Baswegians, penny loafers were the thing, and they were

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Speaker 1: like fifty dollars, and back then fifty dollars a lot

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Speaker 1: of money for shoes. Well, we went to the knockoff

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Speaker 1: place and bought the twelve dollars shoes because that's all

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Speaker 1: we could afford. And you know, I remember feeling even

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Speaker 1: more in security from everything my life was, but also

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Speaker 1: a lot of the times how I had to dress

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Speaker 1: and the things that available and you know, people having

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Speaker 1: friends over. And I was very careful about which friends

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Speaker 1: I had over because I lived in an apartment or

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Speaker 1: condominium and everybody else had these school houses with two parents,

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Speaker 1: and you know, so I didn't feel like I was privileged.

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Speaker 1: And so when I heard white privilege, I'm like, who

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Speaker 1: the hell are you talking about. You don't know nothing

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Speaker 1: about me, and it insulted me. And I'm going to

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Speaker 1: tell you, on the face of it, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of white folks who hear the term white privilege and

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Speaker 1: they think about the struggles they've gone into their lives

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Speaker 1: to get where they are that initially are insulted by it,

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Speaker 1: and as a result, dismissed that term as woke bs

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Speaker 1: because they take it personally. It was. It took me

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Speaker 1: a long time, but it was. It was. It took

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Speaker 1: me a while to understand that white privilege was not

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Speaker 1: a term used to personally attack or diminish the things

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Speaker 1: I've had to go through from my life to find success. Rather,

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Speaker 1: it was a term that was used more to try

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Speaker 1: to explain the plight of a lot of inner city

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Speaker 1: black and brown people, not again to compare or diminish

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Speaker 1: what some white person did that came up but to say,

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Speaker 1: there is a difference oftentimes in that plight. So I'll

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Speaker 1: get to my question minute. But I got to put

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Speaker 1: one more layer on this. My pastor Tim Russell, who

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Speaker 1: passed during COVID, one of the greatest mentors I've ever had,

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Speaker 1: one of the smartest men I've one of the most

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Speaker 1: well rassd I helped him move his house one time,

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Speaker 1: and he had two bedrooms full of books. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about room's dog full of books and he had read

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Speaker 1: them all. And his dad was a police officer up

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Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, and he was a theologically trained that seminary

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Speaker 1: pastor in the Presterian Church. And all I can tell

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Speaker 1: you is think James Earl Jones, booming voice, balled, black, proud, brilliant,

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Speaker 1: wonderful man. And I would tell you he is the

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Speaker 1: closest relationship I've ever had with the pastor, and we

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Speaker 1: had lots of real talk. He moved to Memphis from

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Speaker 1: up there to start a school called the Memphis Center

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Speaker 1: for Urban Theological Seminary, trying to help pastors from the

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Speaker 1: inner city who are certainly on fire for God and

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Speaker 1: church but didn't really have the full theological seminary background,

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Speaker 1: especially with regard to the New Testament, to teach that,

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Speaker 1: to equip them to go back to their churches and

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Speaker 1: teach that. So he was the president of that and

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Speaker 1: we became very very good friends. The whole reason I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you all of this is this, when he and

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Speaker 1: I were deep in conversation one time, the white privileged

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Speaker 1: thing came up and I told him how bad it

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Speaker 1: bothered me, and it angered me and I took it

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Speaker 1: personally and it discounted all I'd done in my life

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Speaker 1: to overcome obstacles, and that I wasn't down with it.

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Speaker 1: He looked at me and he said, you've been to

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Speaker 1: a black dentist And I said no. And he said

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Speaker 1: you have been to a black doctor and I said no.

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Speaker 1: I did go to mergency room one time and the

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Speaker 1: doctor was from India. And he said, so you can

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Speaker 1: think of one time you've been to a non white

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Speaker 1: doctor and I said, yeah, I guess. So he said

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Speaker 1: you have been to a black attorney and I said no,

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Speaker 1: and he said why not? And I said, I don't

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Speaker 1: know that I ever cared if anybody was black or white,

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Speaker 1: but I went to who I know or who my

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Speaker 1: family knew or what was available to me. He said,

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Speaker 1: there's not a black person in the world that hasn't

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Speaker 1: at one time in their life had to depend on

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Speaker 1: a white dentist, a white doctor, a white attorney or

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Speaker 1: something like that, or some professional that they had to

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Speaker 1: go to a white person for those things. And he said,

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Speaker 1: that's white privilege. He said that that doesn't mean anything

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Speaker 1: to you, or about you or anything thing you've done.

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Speaker 1: And he said, but you have a privilege as a

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Speaker 1: white person that you can that things and people and

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Speaker 1: services are available to you in the way that you

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Speaker 1: want them by people that you are comfortable with that

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Speaker 1: simply aren't available to black people in our country. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't diminish you. It's just trying to explain where a

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Speaker 1: black person might be coming from. And it rocked me

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Speaker 1: when he said that. Talk to me about your perspective

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Speaker 1: of the term white privilege from a man who grew

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Speaker 1: up in the West Side Chicago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I didn't, and I don't want to

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Speaker 2: skip anything. I didn't even think about it until I

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Speaker 2: started rowing, and I didn't really think about it because

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Speaker 2: it was so much navigating through the West Side of

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Speaker 2: Chicago that I can even imagine not getting through anything

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Speaker 2: else or what other people was going through. But it

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Speaker 2: didn't mean when it you know, it wasn't people wasn't

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Speaker 2: using nowhere white privilege back when I was young. But

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Speaker 2: you know the first time I noticed it, and it

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Speaker 2: had nothing to do with money or you know, work

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Speaker 2: ethic or anything like that. I we were sharing a

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Speaker 2: boat house with a private school and there was a

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Speaker 2: gas station on Clark Street by the Lincoln Park two

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Speaker 2: by the Lincoln Park Lagoon where we rowed. And for

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Speaker 2: me and my team, the group of black guys, we

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Speaker 2: will always ask that you guys have to come in

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Speaker 2: one at a time because we can't watch you and

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Speaker 2: we don't know if anyone will take something or still.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh man, okay, okay, but we wanted

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Speaker 2: we need a sack. So we were just always going

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Speaker 2: one at a time. And we were talking about this later,

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Speaker 2: but as we got friendly with the private school kids

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Speaker 2: and it didn't start off that way at first. These

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Speaker 2: kids were from Senegnatius and were walking and we saw

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Speaker 2: them all go in as a group, and I was like, hey,

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Speaker 2: we have to go in one at a time. You

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Speaker 2: guys can go in as a group. He's like yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: He's like, you guys have to come in one at

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Speaker 2: a time. And I, one of the kids was like,

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Speaker 2: and this comes in with like being an ally. He

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Speaker 2: was like, no, that's not cool. Come in with us,

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Speaker 2: and let's see if they say something, you know. And

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Speaker 2: we went in with them and they didn't say anything.

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Speaker 2: No one said anything. But that was the rule for us.

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Speaker 2: The same cashire what year? This was nineteen ninety nine, and.

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Speaker 1: We ain't talking sixty four. No, no, no, no, I

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Speaker 1: know that, but I just want to make the point. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And that's when I felt like there's a different kind

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Speaker 2: of privilege here. And then that's when we began to

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Speaker 2: have more conversations when I said, hey, I've never been

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Speaker 2: suspended from school. I never broke a plate in my life.

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Speaker 2: I have never got in trouble, and I even talked

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Speaker 2: back to my mom. I have pleasure to lead just

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Speaker 2: to the flag every morning. I have recited the preamble,

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Speaker 2: I said the Declaration of Independence, passed that task with

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Speaker 2: goosebumps in my spine, and I have my face pressed

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Speaker 2: down the police card numerous of times, and ask the

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Speaker 2: guys that we roll with from saying nations. Have this

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Speaker 2: ever happened to them? And they said no, And I

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Speaker 2: was like, I volunteer more than you guys. I feel

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Speaker 2: more American than you guys. I do all kind of

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Speaker 2: I go to church. But it never happened to them.

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Speaker 2: And I felt like.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask something. Where you dressed like a thug?

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Speaker 2: I not mean, but I guess we had dressed like

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Speaker 2: a thug.

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Speaker 1: I asked that question on purpose that way, Yeah, speak

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Speaker 1: to it. What does that feel like when a white

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Speaker 1: dude says, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Dress like a thug? I'm like, what does that even mean?

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Speaker 1: There you go?

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like, you know, it's like

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Speaker 2: who decides who dressed like a thug? Right?

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Speaker 1: You know why I said that? You said because that's

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Speaker 1: what people thinking.

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Speaker 2: That's what people are thinking.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Hold hold it? Do you have a

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Speaker 1: hood on? Jeb Dreads dressed like a thought? No one

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Speaker 1: was hold it, corn Roach dressed like a thought. I'm

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Speaker 1: just I'm just equating. I know, Yeah, we'll talk about it,

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Speaker 1: talk about it.

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Speaker 2: You know we had big jeans, right.

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Speaker 1: Well, thugs wear big chains. I see it on wrap stuff.

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Speaker 1: I can't listen to music or even understand the words

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Speaker 1: but I know those thugs were big, big old chains.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we couldn't afford the chains. But here's the thing.

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Speaker 2: We left practice. We had basketball shorts and jerseys on.

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Speaker 2: At some point we still had rowing clothes on, and

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Speaker 2: we had our head bands.

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Speaker 1: Right, well, that's gangster. Just spell what I'm saying. Doing

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Speaker 1: all of this, Yes, you understand.

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Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, all the things

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Speaker 2: that Nike sells all athletes wear in America. In America, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we were wearing and damn thugs. We were considered thugs.

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Speaker 2: And the same guys who showed up into this foreign sport,

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Speaker 2: who trained six days a week and took entrepreneurship classes,

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Speaker 2: we couldn't walk into the same grocery store as others.

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Speaker 1: That's white privilege. Now does that speak bad about a

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Speaker 1: white person or not at all? Try to explain your reality,

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Speaker 1: that's all it is.

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Speaker 2: Because the guys who went to the grocery store done

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Speaker 2: nothing wrong. They just walked into the grocery store.

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Speaker 1: The white kids, they didn't do anything wrong. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean anything against them. Is just trying to explain your reality.

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Speaker 2: And we didn't even get mad at them. The fact

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Speaker 2: that they can go in. Now, he's not their fault.

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Speaker 2: It's not their fault, you know.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying them being white is not their fault,

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Speaker 1: no more.

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Speaker 2: Than being black.

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Speaker 1: But one group is looked at penalized differently than the other.

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Speaker 1: Both engaged in the same sport, at the same place,

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Speaker 1: in the same city, the same store.

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Speaker 2: And I know people think it's, you know, shaky conversation,

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Speaker 2: but that's why people say, I feel like I'm living

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Speaker 2: in a different America.

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Speaker 1: Bro, It's time we start having shaky conversations in this

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Speaker 1: country that are real, that are civil, non threatening and respectful,

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Speaker 1: but real.

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Speaker 2: And that's what I learned through sports, and you know,

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Speaker 2: in football, basketball, that to accomplish anything, you are uncomfortable

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Speaker 2: the whole time. You're courageous. But these conversations are uncomfortable,

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Speaker 2: but it give us the results that.

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Speaker 1: So our listeners heard this Row stuff and they got

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Speaker 1: to be thinking row. Black folks don't row.

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Speaker 2: I said that, I know.

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Speaker 1: So I guess it's time that we advance from eleven

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Speaker 1: years old and get to the rowing. So people even

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Speaker 1: understand why you're at the store and why you're wearing

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Speaker 1: Row clothes. And man, there's some of the stuff I've

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Speaker 1: read that I cannot help, and I don't even know

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Speaker 1: if I'm supposed to laugh, but Lord have mercy. Some

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Speaker 1: of your partners said some funny stuff, so we're going

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Speaker 1: to share that too. But first a few messages from

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Speaker 1: our sponsors. At around eleven twelve, you noticed this family

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Speaker 1: dynamic change, and your stepdad is gone and your mom

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Speaker 1: is an addict in the street and you're living with grandparents. Right,

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Speaker 1: So I remember reading that you pretty much felt like

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Speaker 1: your mom was going to die, so you disassociated yourself

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Speaker 1: from her and just kind of let her die in

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Speaker 1: your mind, preparing yourself for her to be going and

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Speaker 1: dealing with that trauma as well, going to school, your

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Speaker 1: grandmother kind of I guess, stepping in and trying to

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Speaker 1: keep you right, and then showing up at school one

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Speaker 1: day and there's a boat. So I'm gonna shut up

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Speaker 1: and let you take us from about eleven to the

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Speaker 1: first boat day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, my you know, my mom eventually

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Speaker 2: went into recovery, and that in itself was like, Wow,

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Speaker 2: if God can change that one, he can change anything,

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Speaker 2: you know, That was my first thought. But you know,

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Speaker 2: she was, you know, amazing when she went to a

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Speaker 2: Christian recovery home, and God changed her life and we

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Speaker 2: had devotion every morning. But I think Rowan came to

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Speaker 2: me because of her, because when she left her recovery,

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Speaker 2: she said that I think it's scripture. She said to me,

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Speaker 2: she said, your gift will making room for you and

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Speaker 2: put you in the presence of great men. I never

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Speaker 2: forgot that. I didn't know what that meant unless she's crazy,

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Speaker 2: But always thought about that. My high school graduate, less

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Speaker 2: than fifty percent of his senior class every year sent

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Speaker 2: ten percent to college, the second most file in the

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Speaker 2: high school in Westie, Chicago at that time. In the

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Speaker 2: school mainly high school right and to get to school

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Speaker 2: was rough. It was. It was hard. You had to

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Speaker 2: go through so many different gangs to even get to

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Speaker 2: the school, walking walking, and fights every day all the

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Speaker 2: time in the school, outside and in the school. Go

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Speaker 2: through the metal detectives, you see nice and screws drivers

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Speaker 2: on the table.

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Speaker 1: A Memphis bus driver will tell you he has not

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Speaker 1: paid well enough to break up fights on the bus.

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Speaker 1: So oftentimes school buses riding down the road with people

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Speaker 1: fight in the back of it. It just happens. It

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Speaker 1: just happens, and it's the same way, there, the.

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Speaker 2: Same way, and thinking of all this craziness happening. I

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Speaker 2: walk in the lunch room one day and I see

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Speaker 2: a white boat. I was like, what the heck is

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Speaker 2: this like? And I'll stopped and looked at it. I've

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Speaker 2: never seen a boat before.

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Speaker 1: And you've seen pictures of ive seen pictures.

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Speaker 2: But never like, yeah, like live, I've never seen a boat.

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Speaker 2: And I stopped and I stared and it's and and

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Speaker 2: uh And I stopped staring, and this white lady hit

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Speaker 2: my shoulders.

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Speaker 1: She's like, hey, how many white people? A lot of

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Speaker 1: white people put it, teachers, administrators, students.

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Speaker 2: At my school. Maybe you saw two white teachers. Not

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Speaker 2: a lot of white teachers there.

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Speaker 1: And how many students in the whole school? Nine hundred maybe,

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Speaker 1: so we're talking a quarter of one white people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there's a white chick in the hallway with a

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Speaker 1: boat in a lunch room. Might as well have been

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Speaker 1: a marsh Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, my mind is tripping because she said, hey,

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Speaker 2: was you want to be a part of the crew team.

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Speaker 2: I was like, my crew, like you're taught, someone asked

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Speaker 2: you to join the crew running the other way as

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Speaker 2: fast as you can. What you know, like, what is this?

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Speaker 2: There's so many different crews. That's the white lady started

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Speaker 2: a crew like, I'm like, what is crew broke?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: And she said, let me show you and I have

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Speaker 2: to say this bill. She walked me up to the

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Speaker 2: boat and behind the boat was a TV monitor and

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Speaker 2: they was showing the Olympic Games. And it looked so beautiful,

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Speaker 2: people growing, and it looks so meditative, and it looked

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Speaker 2: like an opportunity. But because no one on the screen

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Speaker 2: looked like me or the world I was used to,

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Speaker 2: I said no to the opportunity and walked away and

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Speaker 2: I sat next to my friend. I can you believe

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Speaker 2: like they're trying to get us on Lake Michigan. We

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Speaker 2: don't even swim?

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Speaker 1: Yea that there's okay? First one that you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess off we should probably share our favorite white

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Speaker 1: people joke black people. But I mean one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the things is black folks don't swim, right.

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Speaker 1: Well that's crazy, of course, yes, But the point is

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Speaker 1: when you grow up in West Side Chicago trying to

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Speaker 1: come up with your next meal, you ain't taking swimming

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Speaker 1: lessons with the YMCA. No. No, Now, the other thing

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Speaker 1: that's interesting is you say you've never seen a boat,

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Speaker 1: and you're in Chicago, which happens to beyond like one

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Speaker 1: of the biggest lakes in the world full of boats.

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Speaker 1: How far is West Side from that lake?

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Speaker 2: Five miles? Four miles, five miles?

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Speaker 1: But you never went over there, never been Why didn't

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Speaker 1: you go over there?

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Speaker 2: Just well, first of all, thinking about going across the neighborhoods,

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Speaker 2: nobody to get on the train to see it, you know,

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Speaker 2: just never even thought of it. I couldn't even see

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Speaker 2: past what my circumstances.

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Speaker 1: So my first year NASES, I loaded up a busload

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Speaker 1: of kids at Nassas, which is much like your high school,

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Speaker 1: and I took them out to the county to play

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Speaker 1: in a football game. And it was the first time

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Speaker 1: most of my team had been out of Shoby County.

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Speaker 1: We got off, started warming up and the football field

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Speaker 1: was out in the middle of a field and back

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Speaker 1: behind the bleachers kind of in the end zone. After

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Speaker 1: warm ups, where we went and sat for fifteen minutes

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Speaker 1: to get ready to play the game, and was up

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Speaker 1: against cotton Field and two of my players looked over

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Speaker 1: and said Coach Bill Man that they got that cotton,

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Speaker 1: and I said, yeah, and it dawned on me. They'd

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Speaker 1: never seen a plant outside of just the bushes. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, they'd never seen a farm, they'd never seen

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Speaker 1: a field, they never seen cotton. So much of what

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Speaker 1: anybody would just normally just take for absolutely granted, they'd

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Speaker 1: never seen. And this is We're in Memphis, this is

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Speaker 1: where I mean, this is the largest concentrating hub in

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Speaker 1: the world here in Memphis, and these guys had never

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Speaker 1: seen it because they'd never been more than three miles

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Speaker 1: away from the house, which I didn't understand until they

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Speaker 1: explained to me it's dangerous to walk out their house.

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Speaker 1: So talk about that. The point is, you had never

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Speaker 1: seen a boat. You were five miles from a mecca

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Speaker 1: of boats in your own city, and you wouldn't even

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Speaker 1: dare go to that nice part of the city because

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Speaker 1: you couldn't even get there safely.

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Speaker 2: You couldn't even get to the next neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: How we're talking blocks.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, three blocks, four blocks.

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Speaker 1: You would not go through.

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Speaker 2: You can't go past five blocks. Ganges wasn't It wasn't

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Speaker 2: different communities, it wasn't different neighborhoods. It was blocks, five blocks,

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Speaker 2: is the vice lord. The next block is conservative vice board,

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Speaker 2: next five blocks is the renegade vice lords. Then it's

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Speaker 2: the gangs's disciples. And so if you're in a car

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Speaker 2: or if you're a US with your friends while collective

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Speaker 2: of gangs are getting on every four stops, that's why

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Speaker 2: gangs happen, because I mean gang fights happened because there's

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Speaker 2: four different gangs on one bus heading to the same school,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, And you can't get caught.

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Speaker 2: You can't be caught over there. And then if you're

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Speaker 2: on the train, if you say I want to take Ano,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm just gonna hop on a train and

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Speaker 2: do this amazing adventure and go see the serious towers. No,

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Speaker 2: it's not happening because on that bus the zoo, because

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Speaker 2: on that bus may be a different gang.

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Speaker 1: And that's the museum.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And you hear so many stories growing up. It's like,

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Speaker 2: don't everything is don't go over there, don't go over there,

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Speaker 2: don't go over there, don't go over there. So you're

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Speaker 2: not gonna go over there, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: And if you have to go through quote there to

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Speaker 1: go to the seious Tower, to go to Lake Michigan

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Speaker 1: to go to a museum, the zoo and all of

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Speaker 1: these learning opportunities. You and West Side ain't going Yeah, yep, yep,

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Speaker 1: you roll up on a white woman with a boat

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Speaker 1: in the cafeteria. Yep.

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Speaker 2: And I said, Preston, we ain't doing this at the

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Speaker 2: at the Love for the Table and he was. He

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Speaker 2: was a bit of conspiracy theorist too, he was. He

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Speaker 2: was like, yeah, you know, I remember him saying this.

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Speaker 2: I wrote about this. He's like, yeah, this is you know,

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Speaker 2: this is how the white people kill us. Like why

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Speaker 2: would they want us to do this? And I was like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I don't think

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Speaker 2: we should be on the boat. And uh, you know

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Speaker 2: he was. He said something funny. He's like, think about it,

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Speaker 2: think about it. I'm thinking he's about to say something.

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Speaker 2: And he's like, even the boats are white, bro. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, come on.

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Speaker 1: Man, oh didn't he say something one of you. Somebody

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Speaker 1: said a funny line about a slave ship.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was Malcolm. They said they're gonna have

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Speaker 2: you guys out there on slave ships, these white people.

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Speaker 2: You're like, oh, yeah, that's true. And uh but I

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Speaker 2: tell you on that day you've seen no. They had

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Speaker 2: a sheet of paper that says sign up. No one

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Speaker 2: signed up. And then then day the boat's still there

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Speaker 2: walking a launch room and I see a lot of

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Speaker 2: people signing up and I'm like, what the heck is

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00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:11,719
Speaker 2: going on? Sign up? You get free Chicago pizza. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, man, you know, like anything about

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Speaker 2: this lunchroom food, you know, And people are signing up

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Speaker 2: and I sit next to Press and Press like I

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00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 2: think we sign up, you know what I mean? And

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00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: it was because of the pizza and this girl. I

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Speaker 2: was like, I'll go girl. Yeah, it's this girl named Grace. Man,

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Speaker 2: Like I had a crush on her. I was like, pressing,

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Speaker 2: I'll go if you can hook me up with this

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Speaker 2: girl Grace. And he was like you have no shot,

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Speaker 2: Like she's cheerleader, a student, Like you have no shot,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I was like, well, I'll go, man,

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Speaker 2: Because he really wanted to go for the pizza. So

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Speaker 2: you know, he made that happen.

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Speaker 1: But we still ain't talking about Rowan. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: pizza and girls, yeah, and anything else. A normal fifteen,

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Speaker 1: sixteen year old kid was thinking about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was thinking about.

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Speaker 1: But it's funny to me. I mean, you could see

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Speaker 1: a scene in the movie with you and a couple

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00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,959
Speaker 1: of buddies sitting around the lunchroop table talk about the

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Speaker 1: boat's white, they gotta they go to like a slave

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Speaker 1: ship row and we don't swim and all of that,

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Speaker 1: And it's hilarious that there's about twelve different stereotypes rolled

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Speaker 1: up all into that one conversation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all stereotypes, I mean, and that was Yeah, that

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00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 2: was the first thing that popped up, popped up in

431
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Speaker 2: our minds, you know, and it was all of us,

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Speaker 2: and that's the reason, and it was different for everyone.

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Speaker 2: That's why everyone said, Noah didn't sign up.

434
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 1: Do you know how uncomfortable white people are talking to

435
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: black people about those stereotypes? Yeah, you know why they're

436
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: afraid they're gonna of ffind you. And so because I'm

437
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: afraid of political correctness, wokeness, cancel culture and that I'm

438
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 1: gonna offend you. Now, I can't talk to you about that.

439
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: So how are you and I ever gonna get to

440
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: understand each other and grow together if we cannot have

441
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 1: those conversations.

442
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: No, that's it's correct, And I think and that's what

443
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,479
Speaker 2: I love, you know. I know we get into this

444
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 2: about our coach, Jewish guy, he's the rowing coach. It

445
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: was all about like the human connection right away, like

446
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 2: questions like what kind of piece do you love? Have

447
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 2: you ever traveled? He came by our home the first

448
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 2: time before we even joined the team.

449
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: White dude, that's first white guy I ever went in

450
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: your house? I bet yeah. Anybody, Well, he didn't get

451
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: in most of the houses. It is like he ain't

452
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: coming to here, you know what I mean, that's the truth.

453
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: You know.

454
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 2: He's like front door, door cracked open, the chains still

455
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 2: on the lock.

456
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: How can I help you? You know?

457
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: And I think for remember some of our families from

458
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: the South, and they had their experience, but something that

459
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 2: was like I'm not delivering my kid into this space.

460
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: You know how I grew up, you know, and it

461
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 2: came from a place of safety, you know, and for

462
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 2: some and fear and fear.

463
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: And this is I'm using this word specifically. Also ignorance,

464
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: not stupidity, just being ignorant of any of that world.

465
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: Because if you can't get exposed to it, how do

466
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: you understand it?

467
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 2: How do you understand it?

468
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: Yeah?

469
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah. And remember because I never seen a

470
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: boat up close, and uh, and now you want to

471
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: put my kids on it, you know. And it was

472
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 2: the same for them. And back to your what you

473
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: were saying, the human connection, the questions even you know,

474
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 2: it wasn't just that it was a boat or I

475
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 2: wanted to be in the water. It was his spirit.

476
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 2: When I went up to that info session after the school,

477
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: the first to get that pizza, and having a woman coach.

478
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 2: There was a lot of women I saw coaching boys,

479
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: and most of us was raised by women. We felt

480
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: comfortable with women.

481
00:26:58,359 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: Now that's interesting.

482
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 2: And I was a sensitive kid and I felt like

483
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: women got me in a way that some men didn't.

484
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 2: And then he had a black man who didn't know

485
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 2: nothing about rowing, but he knew the community. But he

486
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 2: was still a coach, and the leadership kind of reflected

487
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 2: the diversity.

488
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Talk briefly about this guy, this

489
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: crazy white dude. The idea was to go in the

490
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: inner city. It's one thing for white dude to go

491
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: on in the inner city and coach football or basketball or

492
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: whatever what we're talking about rowing.

493
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 2: And a bunch of schools said no. He tried, he

494
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: went to different school that we wasn't a first place. No,

495
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 2: we was in the first place. And you know, he

496
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: came and I think he had a conversation with someone

497
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: he was trying to get to volunteer, Michael Gorman, and

498
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 2: Michael saying no, I'm not volunteering Mike. I think Mike

499
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: was kind of like making a joke, Hey, if you

500
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: start a rowing team on the West Side Chicago, maybe

501
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: I volunteer, you know, and uh, crazy can did it.

502
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 2: And I think what was special about him, Coach Bill,

503
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: was that it wasn't about him he made He took

504
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 2: the time to hire a diverse staff with women and

505
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: people of color, to also learn from them, right and

506
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: understand that, you know, we came from different situations and

507
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: he won't be maybe the only person that we will

508
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: respond to that maybe the parents will respond to Coach Victor,

509
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: or maybe some of the moms will respond to Jessica differently,

510
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

511
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: But this is an average dude. I mean, he went

512
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: to the University of Pennsylvania and was on the crew team.

513
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: But you know, this is just not a guy who

514
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: was anointed to go out and start road to the

515
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: city he found it in his heart and said, you know,

516
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: the commitment that disciplined, the hard work, the teamwork, the

517
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: effort that comprises a good row team are all tenants

518
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: and fundamentals that would be great for these kids in

519
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: westside Chicago to learn. So I want to teach them rowing,

520
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: but I want them to grow through learning how to row.

521
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: And he included a one day a week entrepreneurship thing. Right, So,

522
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: I mean you talk about an army and normal folks.

523
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: He's won.

524
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he's a trader, has a kid, newly married.

525
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: And finds himself in the West side of Chicago trying

526
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: to teach a bunch of inner city kids.

527
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: Yeah yep. And and I gave it a shot. And

528
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: I tell you Bill, the the first time he went

529
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: out there was rough.

530
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: The first time he went out where on the water

531
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: we went out there? So okay, So so hang on,

532
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: you sign up for the team because you got the pizza,

533
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: and because Grace is you like.

534
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 2: What it looks like and so all that, and they

535
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: have machines.

536
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: I want to make sure you get married, Grace good.

537
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: I just I don't want to be talking about no

538
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: like all that. Watch my business. So how many of you.

539
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: I didn't ever understand how many of you have now

540
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: actually signed up to be on the road team.

541
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 2: Was about twenty one. Sorry.

542
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: How many people fit in a boat?

543
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: Eight or four?

544
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: Eight or four? So there's four man boats, eight man boats.

545
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: So there's twenty one kids from the West side Chicago.

546
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: How many of those twenty one kids literally could swim?

547
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: I think it was like two.

548
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're gonna stick them on the in some water.

549
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

550
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: None of them ain't ever even seen a boat, yep.

551
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: And so you'd say, well, that first day was rough, Well,

552
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: I guess so, bro it was a damn mess. I

553
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: bet it was as bad as a super saying. So

554
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: tell me about that day. Ill you about how you're

555
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: fifteen fifteen all right, so you're fifteen, can't swim? Twenty

556
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: one of you and they put your out in a boat. Yes,

557
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: and these boats, y'all are not don't think of speed

558
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: butter are they like eighteen inches?

559
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 2: Yes?

560
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: So eighteen inches like a canoe, a big long, pointy

561
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: canoe that can that can turn over, it can flip,

562
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? They put you in it.

563
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we had life jackets, but that still

564
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: doesn't mean anything, you know, And we had some rth.

565
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: Where was it? Where's the water?

566
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: It was the Lincoln Park Lagoon. It's it's which is

567
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: a place that you never went to right downtown.

568
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: You never even saw it before, saw it before. So

569
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: you ain't never been a boat. You can't swim. You

570
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: really don't know these folks. And they put you in

571
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: a boat you've never been in, and a life jacket

572
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: that you really don't know how to use, and water

573
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: you can't swim in, and a place that you can't

574
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: get to from your neighbor hood and say, ro ro,

575
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: I bet it, I bet it.

576
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 2: They pushed us out.

577
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: We didn't move.

578
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: That's what I said. The line in the book. One

579
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: of the kids outside, I gotta call him out, but

580
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 2: he's my boy, Deshaun Benson. He starts crying, and I

581
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: was like, man, I know you don't have the gang

582
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: shootouts you saw and you like you go outside the

583
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: next day the next moment, you know, and you cried

584
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: in a boat that's so different, you know. And I remember,

585
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 2: we wouldn't move. They said, hey, let's go. We wouldn't move,

586
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 2: and they had to pull us back in. What do

587
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 2: you mean we sat there we was like, well no,

588
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 2: and they pulled us back in and I felt, gosh,

589
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 2: the leader in me was like man like they I

590
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: felt like these culches. They wasn't disappointed, but they just

591
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 2: they were looking at me. They were looking at each

592
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 2: other like did we get ourselves into you know? I

593
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 2: saw it in their face and I felt bad. And

594
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: there was a little time between. Grace is not there, thank.

595
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: You, because she would have never made no time with

596
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: you watching in the boat.

597
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: And that was a little bit of time between where

598
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: we started taking swim lessons, where we got on the

599
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: row machine, and we went to the University of Wisconsin

600
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: to sit on a tank. A tank is like a

601
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: pool where you have a fake boat in and you

602
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 2: learn how to move together.

603
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: Okay, so how long from that first we ain't moving

604
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: day too when you could actually row a boat together?

605
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: Like a month. Maybe it was the time they said

606
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: we gotta, we gotta, we got to back up here,

607
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 2: we got to back up here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.

608
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: It was rowing machines, rowing machines and got it, having conversations.

609
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: We felt like a part of the team, and it

610
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 2: was like guys who didn't make who were athletic, but

611
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: didn't make the football team, basketball team, baseball team. Those

612
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,479
Speaker 2: were the guys that were there and and I remember

613
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 2: it was we felt so connected. We started to learn

614
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: more about each other. And we went out there the

615
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 2: next time and they pushed us out first. The first

616
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 2: thing I thought about was like, wow, just go to

617
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: go from seeing dirt and concrete every day to water

618
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: and grass changed everything for me. When it was like

619
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: the same survival mode. When we pushed out and started

620
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 2: rowing in pairs, it was like the same survival mode

621
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: that told us that if you hear a gunshot, run

622
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 2: told us in order to get back to the docks safely,

623
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: you have to pull for each other. And in order

624
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 2: to pull for each other, you have to shut up

625
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: and listen. And the culture saying, sit tall, breathe, you

626
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: belong here. With every stroke, you started to develop this

627
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 2: magical rhythm. And that's when you start to feel the

628
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 2: magic in the boat. You began to really download that

629
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 2: serenity and you see the downtown view and before it

630
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: becomes a sportive competitiveness, it becomes a sportive meditation. And

631
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,720
Speaker 2: I felt like wow, like this is the first sport

632
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: that kind of like calm that's calming the storm in

633
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 2: me because I tried other sports and I was rowed up. Well,

634
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 2: I was angry because I wasn't that good, but it

635
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: was non combative and like non conflict and for me personally,

636
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 2: because impact scared me, gunshots, being chased or being punched.

637
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 2: Like I felt like like this may be something that's

638
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 2: that that is great for me. But it wasn't like

639
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 2: an introduction to sports. It was like an introduction to wellness.

640
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 2: And that's when I fell in love with it.

641
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: I remember reading that you said looking at the Sears

642
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 1: Tower from the water, sitting in that boat, which maybe

643
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: the first time you ever truly felt serenity. I'm using

644
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: I don't think you use the words serenity, but tell

645
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: me about that.

646
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think I only saw the top

647
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 2: of the City's tower from the west side of Chicago.

648
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: That was my only view, and it must have been

649
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: no different than as you've explained. You can see the

650
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: top of it, but it wasn't any different looking at

651
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: the moon. You were never getting that.

652
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: You would never get here exactly, yep. And I felt

653
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 2: I never felt so close to you because my dream

654
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,919
Speaker 2: was to see downtown, but I never felt so close

655
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 2: to my dream than that day.

656
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: How ridiculous is it that a kid growing up in

657
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 1: West Side Chicago, five miles from downtown has a dream

658
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: to be able to go across five miles just to

659
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: see downtown. That is not a That should not be

660
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: a dream. That should be just an assumption.

661
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 2: I have to tell you this Bill. I went to

662
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: a school and I'm skipping a little bit, but I

663
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 2: spoke at a school in Harlem and I asked all

664
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 2: these young black men what was their dream? And everyone

665
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 2: was saying in like NFL player, basketball player. But I

666
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 2: went to one kid and he said, to eat at Chipotle,

667
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 2: and people started laughing. Chipotle, that's it. That was his dream,

668
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 2: that was his dream. And the way he looked at

669
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 2: me with his eyes like water in his eyes, I

670
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 2: was like, this kid is serious. And after that I

671
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 2: went up to the school council. I said, here's twenty dollars.

672
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 2: You have to make sure he eats at Chippole. Yeah,

673
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 2: And he was like, you don't have to do it.

674
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 2: I said, no, you don't understand. If you can eliminate

675
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: the small dream, there's room for bigger dreams, there's room

676
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: for more dreams. I couldn't see past going down to Chicago,

677
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: going like like I couldn't see passed the dream of

678
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 2: downtown Chicago. That's that was the only one I had

679
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 2: because it seems so out of reach. And the moment

680
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 2: Coach took me down there, I was like, dude, we

681
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: gotta go out of town. And so Coach was eliminating

682
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: the small dreams and then that was room for more

683
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 2: and that was just a powerful and it took me

684
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 2: back to that moment when I saw this kid who

685
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 2: dream was only to eat at Chipotle because everyone talked

686
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 2: about it and said, I'll be going to Chippole, but

687
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 2: he just couldn't. And these kids are limited it to

688
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 2: their dreams and they can't see past that.

689
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: And if your dream is to simply go see the

690
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: Seerus Tower, that's a different dream than a fourteen year

691
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: old in another part of the country that has a

692
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: dream to be a doctor. I dream to be an accountant,

693
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: a dream to go to college, a dream to get

694
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: married and have children in a house. That's the things

695
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: that thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year old could shud

696
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: be dreaming out, not to go five miles away from

697
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 1: their house, just to see the seious tower. And when

698
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: the dreams are so small and should be so and

699
00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: are so assumptive, how do we ever expect people from Weside,

700
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: Chicago to do anything, or Harlem or wherever. Pick a

701
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: neighborhood in your city, Baltimore, you know what I'm talking about.

702
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: I mean, the point is, if you can't dream beyond

703
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 1: five miles from your house because you're afraid to walk

704
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: the ten blocks to get to get there, how in

705
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: the world can you ever dream about being anything other

706
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: than what you are and what you see every day?

707
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 2: And that's why I appreciate people like Can yourself and

708
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: many others, because people will say, how come there's not

709
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: more black people are fencing, or black people are growing,

710
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 2: or because it's hard to dream about something you know

711
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 2: nothing about, you know, And that's funny.

712
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: I think Chris Rock talks about his daughter fencing, which

713
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: is which is funny because one of the things he

714
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: was talking about is you know, yeah, I got black

715
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: girls that fence, and he's like unicorn, you know. But

716
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: the thing is, it is funny. It does speak to

717
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: about a thousand stereotypes, but it's also desperately sad that

718
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: a black kid fencing is such or a black kid

719
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: growing is such a odd thought that it's laughable. That

720
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: that speaks to why we have continued generational problems in

721
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: places like by such cargo, And it also speaks to

722
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: why your story is so freaking amazing because you broke

723
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 1: that cycle from the seat in a little skinny white boat.

724
00:40:51,200 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. You started figuring out what you

725
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: were doing, and you're practicing every day.

726
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 2: Yep, we're practicing every day.

727
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: Now. I don't know this. I get your practicing Like

728
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: when we practice summer in spring football, we're practicing for

729
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: the season, and you practice a week between games. I

730
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: don't know what a is it a meat? What's a

731
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: row competition called?

732
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 2: It's called retta?

733
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: Okay, So so you regatta. So you got these kids

734
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: from west Side that are practicing for their first regatta. Now,

735
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: from that first practice to the first regatta, how much time.

736
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 2: Do you have, oh man? For some I mean you

737
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 2: have a few months, for some people some months. It

738
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 2: really depends on it.

739
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: So it's are we talking about we got to get

740
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:00,800
Speaker 1: ready for our first red?

741
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah yeah.

742
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,919
Speaker 1: Now when people in your high school see you talking

743
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: about rowing and talking about going to regatta. They have

744
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: got to be folks looking at you crossover.

745
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, wait a minute, isn't that a cheese? But I

746
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 2: know that's rita, that's ricata.

747
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, no, man, that ain't nothing. My mama got

748
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 1: a buick for gotta right. But for real, people had

749
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: in school had to be kind of looking at your gracey. Yeah.

750
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 2: They were like, man, we were walking and you would

751
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: see the guys making a beat on the locker and

752
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 2: they were saying, roll roll, roll your books. It was

753
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 2: like they gave us a hard time. Yeah, that's not

754
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 2: a real sport. What are you guys doing down there?

755
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? And no one took it serious.

756
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,919
Speaker 2: And when I say it was like there was three

757
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 2: things that was tough. It was not one the school

758
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 2: laughing at us, didn't take it serious. The school, the kids,

759
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: school kids, and then a mixture of parents and some

760
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: of the coaches like this is a million dollar contracts.

761
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 2: After this, it's like, what are you doing. It's not

762
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 2: a real sport. If you want to make some money

763
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: for your family, do a ball sport.

764
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got I got it. I got news for you.

765
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: How many million dollar contracts came out of the high

766
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: school that you went to one out of period years

767
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: years one years, I mean.

768
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 2: Mainly been there. I don't know, maybe mainly been there

769
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 2: for sixty seven year. We had one NBA player.

770
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: Sixty years yep, right times nine hundred kids. Wow, okay,

771
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: that's fifty four thousand. That's one wow in fifty four

772
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: thousand odds. Wow, you're gonna get a million dollar contract

773
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: one kids. My guess is you have a better chance actually.

774
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 2: Going to go. You just gave me some new material built.

775
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 2: They will just you know a mill there.

776
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: Marked train said, there's truth, there's damn truth, and then

777
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: there's stats. Well, there's your status there you go.

778
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 2: Right and uh and so so yeah, it was that

779
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 2: and then a mixture of it, like I told your

780
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 2: parents teaching, and then it was like the boat house.

781
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 2: No one told these twenty one black boys from the

782
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: West side of Chicago that you're going to be sharing

783
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 2: a boat house with a couple, like a couple of

784
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 2: private schools.

785
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: What's a boat house, I don't know what that is.

786
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,439
Speaker 2: A boat house is where I don't know nothing about

787
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 2: from boat houses where you house the boats. You go

788
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 2: in there and it's like forty boats are they your

789
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 2: boats or no, the boats belong to the private schools

790
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 2: know about. We don't own a boat. Were borrowing boats

791
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 2: from some of the proms, from some of the private schools.

792
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: And then they're giving you their ragged as practice, the

793
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: oldest boat that you can find, and some are they

794
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: called oars or whatever oars? They probably some broke.

795
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,439
Speaker 2: Up, okay, And that's what we had and one black

796
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 2: dudes for the side of Chicago. So at times no

797
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 2: one really said anything crazy to us. But our home

798
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 2: boat house did feel like an away game in times,

799
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 2: and so we had to deal with the school, the

800
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 2: boat house and teachers and parents saying what the heck

801
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 2: are y'all doing here?

802
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: That was the dynamic, right, did you feel it? We

803
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: felt it the stairs the stairs. Were you more of

804
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 1: a humorous curiosity or were you a threat? I think

805
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 1: we were both are equally disturbed.

806
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: I think we were a threat. I felt it. I

807
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 2: think we were more of a threat to the kids,

808
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 2: but more like the humor part was some of the

809
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 2: coaches and.

810
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: A threat to steal their stuff and kill them, or

811
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,720
Speaker 1: you were a threat to take over their rowing world.

812
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 2: I think maybe a little bit of takeover the wrong world.

813
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 2: But also like their stuff in their locker.

814
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: Right, I knew that was that was never read any

815
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,439
Speaker 1: of it, but I knew that wasna answer. So how'd

816
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: that feel?

817
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: It didn't feel welcoming. It felt like, to be honest,

818
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: it felt like, man like what you guys talking about,

819
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 2: how tough we have to be to mentally prepare for race,

820
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: the race, and then now prepare for like also some

821
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 2: race issues. It just felt like we had a lot

822
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 2: to deal with. It felt like another weight added to

823
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 2: our show. So now we've got to navigate through the

824
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: West side of Chicago, and now we're going to navigate

825
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 2: through this new space, this white space of rowing. So

826
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 2: two worlds to navigate through safely.

827
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: Right, But you keep going back?

828
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 2: Yes? Why because we need We needed a break from

829
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 2: the gunshots, the fire trucks, the police sirens.

830
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 1: My rules, Anastas were you can only wear blue and gold.

831
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,720
Speaker 1: That's only colors you're allowed, all right, And the reason

832
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 1: is same thing. You know, the crips are this color,

833
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: the bloods of this color, the gds are this color.

834
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: Everybody's got their colors, right, Well, how do you have

835
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: a football team where people have to have teamwork and

836
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: fight for each other on a football field, and then

837
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: on Saturday night, everybody's wearing different colors banging in the

838
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: neighborhood against your teammate. That's stupid. It doesn't work. So

839
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,919
Speaker 1: I made a quick rule. The only colors you ribbed

840
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 1: to wear if you play football from here boo and gold.

841
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 1: You also have to do your homework. You also have

842
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: to be respectful teachers. You also have to hold the

843
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: door open for a young lady if she's in front

844
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: or behind you. You also have to say yes, ma'am, no, ma'am.

845
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: All kinds of real basic fundamental tenants. One very small

846
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: freshman came to practice one day with knuckle bumps all

847
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 1: over his forehead. I'm talking about he had been beat on,

848
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: and I'm like, Bro, you know, I'm not going to

849
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: use his name. I'm say, bro, what you know, what's up?

850
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: He's like, it's all good, coach, let's roll. We got practice.

851
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: I found out later that year that his game was

852
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: particularly violent, and their world was if you wanted to

853
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: not wear our colors in order to play on that team,

854
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: you got to take a one minute, three man beat down.

855
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: So he had to stand there for a minute and

856
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: take an app open from three grown out men for

857
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: them to give him permission to cross over and wear

858
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 1: blue and gold, meaning be part of the football team.

859
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: Yet he did it. I had, as you can imagine,

860
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if you heard this too. I had

861
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: some of my kids get called sellouts Uncle Tom's and

862
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 1: that white man ain't got nothing for you, white coach

863
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: and all black plays, and so many of my players peers,

864
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: they had to break relationships to some of them because

865
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: they weren't down with a white coach and all that,

866
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: and then you know he's going to sell you out,

867
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: you know how it is. I mean, they had to

868
00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: put up with all that, not just from their many

869
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: of them, not from the gangs, but their own friends,

870
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: from family members. Yet they showed up every day, and

871
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 1: I finally understood why it wasn't me. It wasn't me

872
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: being inspirational. That two hours on that football field with

873
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: those rules was the one positive thing those kids got

874
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: to look forward to, and they did it because all

875
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: of the rest of it was worth it to them

876
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 1: for that two hour of serenity in their life. Did

877
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: you get called names by your peers because the coaches

878
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 1: were white and it was a quote white sport. And

879
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: did you sense that it was all worth it just

880
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: for the headspace?

881
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, absolutely. We will call the same thing sell out.

882
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 2: Oh you guys talking like you're white now, Oh you

883
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 2: think you're better than us or you know again, you're

884
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 2: off with a white man, the slave ship, sell out.

885
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: Slave ship. Yeah, they called you the kids in school? Yeah,

886
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: how did that make you feel?

887
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: It was damaging?

888
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: Man?

889
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 2: It was rough.

890
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: You know.

891
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 2: It's because they supporting every single sport in the school

892
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 2: except ours. Everyone was getting rooted for except us, you know.

893
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 2: And but at the same time, you talk about eliminating

894
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 2: the small dream because there was room for more dreams eventually,

895
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 2: you know, you read that we went to Philly, we

896
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 2: raced in Iowa, we raced in d C. You know,

897
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 2: all these different places in high school.

898
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 1: In high school from west from someone who couldn't go

899
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: downtown to shoot the serious towers finding himself in Philly

900
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: and d C in a boat on the water racing.

901
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 2: No one was doing what we was doing, and that

902
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 2: kept us going, Like I don't care if he was

903
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 2: the star basketball player who was traveling like that, who

904
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 2: were passing the swim tests, who were eating at nice restaurants,

905
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 2: who were finally interacting with different people. No one was

906
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 2: doing that, so that kept us going. But also at

907
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 2: the same time, the fact that we didn't have anyone

908
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 2: else helped us to connect as a brotherhood cause we

909
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 2: were like, listen, we had to pull for each other.

910
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 2: We don't have anyone else.

911
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: Ual fact did become a crew.

912
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 2: It became a crew. It was like you know soldierspect

913
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,479
Speaker 2: you know many years ago when they fought in war,

914
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 2: when the times a black and whites wasn't connecting, and

915
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you put them together to fight

916
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 2: in the war, and they built. They become a brotherhood.

917
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 2: Like you know, it was like they were isolated from

918
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 2: everything else and it was like, listen, we have to

919
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 2: fight for each other. And that's kind of how it

920
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 2: was for us. These guys are from different gangs and

921
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:54,240
Speaker 2: different neighborhoods, and they were sons of drug addists, sons

922
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 2: of drug dealers, sons of prostitutes. And the fact that

923
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: no one else rooted for us we started, and Malcolm said,

924
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 2: a beaut and film, we just rooted for each other

925
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 2: and that's when the brotherhood started.

926
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: And hopefully our army of normal folks can become a

927
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: brotherhood and a sisterhood too, just like our Sae Cooper's did. Guys,

928
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: that concludes Part two of our conversation with Archie Cooper,

929
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: and I hope you'll join us for Part three that

930
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: is now available