WEBVTT - #024 Jason Flom with Antione Day

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<v Speaker 1>I think we have the best legal system.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just the people that implement they get lost along

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<v Speaker 2>the way and forget what their job really is.

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<v Speaker 3>He just kept on trying to remind me that who

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<v Speaker 3>was in authority, who was in control, and how easy

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<v Speaker 3>it was for my body to be found in any

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<v Speaker 3>alley of New York City.

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<v Speaker 4>It's a tough prison when you have the guards going

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<v Speaker 4>against you because they are the biggest gang in the prison.

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<v Speaker 4>They do that.

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<v Speaker 2>They'll give a guy a life sentence and go home

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<v Speaker 2>in eat spaghetti like it was nothing.

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<v Speaker 3>And anybody that said, well, why would you confess to

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<v Speaker 3>something that you didn't do? My question to them will

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<v Speaker 3>be why wouldn't you confess when somebody's threatening to kill

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<v Speaker 3>your life?

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<v Speaker 1>You judge?

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<v Speaker 2>He said, how you feel? I said, I'm okay. He said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>the days you're lucky day you're going home.

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<v Speaker 4>This is wrongful Conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with

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<v Speaker 4>Jason Flamm.

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<v Speaker 5>Today we have two guests and I feel really excited

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<v Speaker 5>about today's episode.

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<v Speaker 4>We have Antoine Day. Antoine Day sixty years for murder,

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<v Speaker 4>twenty five years for attempted murder.

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<v Speaker 1>In nineteen ninety two, Antoine Day was found guilty of

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<v Speaker 1>the murder of one man and attempted murder of another

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<v Speaker 1>outside a liquor store on Chicago's West Side.

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<v Speaker 5>Convicted in nineteen ninety two, dexonerated in two thousand and two.

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<v Speaker 4>Antoine Welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, thanks for having.

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<v Speaker 5>Me, And with Antoine, he brought a luminary in the

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<v Speaker 5>criminal justice reform movement. Laura Caldwell and Laura is an

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<v Speaker 5>accomplished author of many many books novels, also professor at

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<v Speaker 5>Loyola in Chicago and the found of the Life After Innocence.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, Lai at Loyola University Chicago School of Law.

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<v Speaker 4>Got it. But let's go back to the beginning. You

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<v Speaker 4>came from Illinois.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, West side of Chicago.

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<v Speaker 5>And you were a musician, and you had some stuff

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<v Speaker 5>going on at the time that everything went haywire.

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<v Speaker 4>Right. It was a murder that happened at a craps game,

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<v Speaker 4>right right.

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<v Speaker 5>Two people shot Thomas Peters and James Coleman, and Peters

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<v Speaker 5>died and Coleman was wounded, and they're out looking for

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<v Speaker 5>the suspects.

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<v Speaker 4>How'd you get mixed up?

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<v Speaker 1>Well?

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<v Speaker 2>I got mixed up because you know, I didn't come

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<v Speaker 2>from that real cush community.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I come from.

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<v Speaker 2>A very hard heart community, you know, the West side

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<v Speaker 2>of Chicago. Even right now, it's the top murder has

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<v Speaker 2>the top murder rate in the.

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<v Speaker 4>State and one of the top of the country.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah in the country. Yeah it is.

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<v Speaker 2>So I lived, as I live now in its same community,

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<v Speaker 2>and I also I work in the second largest murder

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<v Speaker 2>rate in the country in Lindale. So how it happened

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<v Speaker 2>was I was known in the community because I was

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<v Speaker 2>in the street. You know, I did some things in

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<v Speaker 2>the street. Today I wouldn't be so proud of. But

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a young kid, you know, you did some things,

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<v Speaker 2>and so you meet.

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<v Speaker 4>People, but not necessarily violent thing.

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<v Speaker 2>No, nothing violent, had nothing to do with violence. I

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<v Speaker 2>sold drugs, you know, I sold marijuana. I did what

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<v Speaker 2>most young guys my age do.

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<v Speaker 4>So okay, So you were I was known.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I was a musician. We played all the

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<v Speaker 2>community of fast concerts. We did a lot of things.

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<v Speaker 2>And I lived in the community, but in this particular

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<v Speaker 2>community I lived in. The guys that actually got killed

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<v Speaker 2>stayed only a block away from my home from where

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<v Speaker 2>I lived. He stayed the next block over, and I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't know them. They didn't know me, so when the

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<v Speaker 2>incident occurred, they said that it was a black vehicle,

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<v Speaker 2>so right away they tagged all the black vehicles in

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<v Speaker 2>the area. I had two black vehicles. I had a

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<v Speaker 2>station Wagon. I'm a car man, you know, I love cars.

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<v Speaker 2>So I had a station Wagon that was fixed up,

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<v Speaker 2>and I had a Chevy Blazer that was also fixed up.

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<v Speaker 2>So these two cars stay parked in front of my home.

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<v Speaker 2>So when the police ran an icing plate, they had

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<v Speaker 2>my name. We had played in New Orleans. It was

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<v Speaker 2>raining really hard, so when we came back that morning,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a car to my door. So I took

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<v Speaker 2>the car to the investigator's car, Detective Condony, I think

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<v Speaker 2>it was.

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<v Speaker 4>I called him.

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<v Speaker 1>I said, you left a car to my door for what.

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<v Speaker 2>He said, well, I want you to come in and

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<v Speaker 2>talk to me about some things that took place over

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<v Speaker 2>the weekend. I said, well, I wasn't here for the weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>So he had the conversation. He said, well, just come in.

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<v Speaker 2>He asked me what did I look like? I said,

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<v Speaker 2>what you mean, when do I look like? He said, so,

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<v Speaker 2>what are your features? Are you a big guy? Your

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<v Speaker 2>little guy? And I'm like, why would you ask me that,

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't you be telling me you're looking for me? I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not looking for you. Then he said, well, the story

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<v Speaker 2>was that you were, you know, about six' to two like,

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<v Speaker 2>Complex AND i, said, no that's not. Me he, said

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<v Speaker 2>so you shouldn't have no.

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<v Speaker 4>Problem how tall are?

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<v Speaker 1>YOU i gotta be about five, ten probably used to be.

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<v Speaker 1>Taller you were number.

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<v Speaker 5>Six, too and like, complected you, KNOW i like. Complected and,

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<v Speaker 5>yeah so you didn't fit the.

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<v Speaker 2>Description NO i, didn't SO i thought maybe they just

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<v Speaker 2>got my, name so let me go. In so WHEN

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<v Speaker 2>i went, in he started asking me about my, car, said,

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<v Speaker 2>WELL i have two. Vehicles is? Black so he went

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<v Speaker 2>over the thing with the. Car he asked, me had

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<v Speaker 2>anybody been driving the?

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<v Speaker 3>Car?

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<v Speaker 2>Sat, no my cars haven't haven't, moved been sitting all.

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<v Speaker 2>Week so you begin to ask me about DID i

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<v Speaker 2>know these particular.

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<v Speaker 1>People i'm saying, NO i don't. Know don't. FORGET i

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<v Speaker 1>took a lawyer in with.

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<v Speaker 5>ME i, mean let's addaly. This you were a thousand

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<v Speaker 5>miles away right.

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<v Speaker 4>When the thing.

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<v Speaker 5>Happened, right you didn't fit the, description, right but still

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<v Speaker 5>growing up in that type of, environment you know that

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<v Speaker 5>the police are capable of pulling some thirty tricks, right And, chicago,

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<v Speaker 5>unfortunately is as infamous as, anywhere with all the scandals

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<v Speaker 5>that have happened, there very well. Known so you hired

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<v Speaker 5>to learn, though because you're, thinking you, KNOW i better

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<v Speaker 5>BE i better just take every. Exactly so you hired

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<v Speaker 5>this lawyer and then tell us the.

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<v Speaker 2>Story i've never been one to trust the police, anyway

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<v Speaker 2>because they've done a lot of things in the, past

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<v Speaker 2>SO i KNEW i should maybe take this lawyer in with.

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<v Speaker 1>Me SO i called.

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<v Speaker 2>Him he, said, SURE i, come and you, KNOW i, said,

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<v Speaker 2>MAN i just to make sure this go. Right you,

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<v Speaker 2>KNOW i KNOW i haven't done, anything SO i want

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<v Speaker 2>to make sure this goes. Right he, said, okay he comes.

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<v Speaker 2>In he came to my mom's, house met me at

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<v Speaker 2>my mother's, house and we went to the police. Stay

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<v Speaker 2>how far is that maybe two. Miles So i'm sitting

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<v Speaker 2>in the interview, room, well not an interview. Room it's

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<v Speaker 2>just a, room, big, big open, space maybe sixty seventy

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<v Speaker 2>chairs in this.

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<v Speaker 1>Room i'm sitting in a.

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<v Speaker 2>Chair it's another guy sitting in a, chair you, know

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<v Speaker 2>maybe ten feet away from. Me you, know we're just

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<v Speaker 2>Talking we've been sitting there so, Long so now we

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<v Speaker 2>begin to. Talk i'm, like, MAN i don't know why

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<v Speaker 2>they got me, Here he said me.

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<v Speaker 1>Either. Man they brought me in here and just made,

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<v Speaker 1>me you, know sit.

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<v Speaker 2>Here i've been sitting there for the longest because he

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<v Speaker 2>was actually here BEFORE i here and were just sitting there.

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<v Speaker 2>Talking then the detective came. In he, said, look are

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<v Speaker 2>you willing to stand a? LINEUP i sent a? Lineup

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<v Speaker 2>so Now i'm looking for my. Lawyer, logical where's my?

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<v Speaker 2>Lawyer where was it for this?

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<v Speaker 1>Lineup? Right he was.

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<v Speaker 2>Gone he had left a message that he was going

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<v Speaker 2>to his daughter's birthday.

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<v Speaker 1>Party so he left me in the police.

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<v Speaker 4>Station and you paid him five thousand.

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<v Speaker 1>Dollars he got five grand out of me.

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<v Speaker 5>To drive you two. Miles that's like twenty five hundred.

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<v Speaker 5>Miles that's not not it's not bad. Man that's, incredible you.

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<v Speaker 5>Know SO i Just i'm, SORRY i. Can't that's. CRAZY

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<v Speaker 5>i got to take him.

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<v Speaker 2>Pause how he got five thousand in the. Beginning let

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<v Speaker 2>me just MAKE i gave him twenty five. Hundred that

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<v Speaker 2>was going to the police, station, right and if anything

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<v Speaker 2>else had, occurred THEN i would have gave him the

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<v Speaker 2>rest of, it so and it. DID i guess that

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<v Speaker 2>was the part of the. Setup so now he gets

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<v Speaker 2>all his money if he leave and THEN i get.

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<v Speaker 2>Arrested SO i felt like it was from the beginning

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<v Speaker 2>it was a. Setup so he had an incentive to

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<v Speaker 2>get you.

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<v Speaker 4>ARRESTED i. Believe, so oh my, God, well, OKAY i

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<v Speaker 4>mean that's because.

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<v Speaker 1>What else could it.

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<v Speaker 2>Be he, Left he didn't even start his job to finish.

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<v Speaker 2>It so the start was to be there for questioning if,

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<v Speaker 2>anything the.

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<v Speaker 5>Whole, conversation he wasn't, There so you're on your own,

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<v Speaker 5>right and then what. HAPPENS i want to Bring laura

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<v Speaker 5>into this conversation because she's so familiar with all this

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<v Speaker 5>kind of nons she know better than. THAT i Think

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<v Speaker 5>antoine's case is a roadmap how not to do.

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<v Speaker 6>Things it's also a roadmap in a sense of what

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<v Speaker 6>happens when you're. Innocent when you're, innocent you're always happy

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<v Speaker 6>to talk to someone because, frankly you know you didn't do.

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<v Speaker 6>It but how smart to get a lawyer at least

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<v Speaker 6>before you do talk to someone on something you don't.

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<v Speaker 6>Know so that was such a smart. Move we usually

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<v Speaker 6>hear people go into the station all the. Time not

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<v Speaker 6>everybody's smart enough to bring a. Lawyer unfortunately for, him

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<v Speaker 6>the lawyer was very negligent and left and didn't come.

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<v Speaker 1>Back they then.

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<v Speaker 6>Put him in a lineup and the two gentlemen he

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<v Speaker 6>was sitting with the cops actually we now, know said

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<v Speaker 6>go ahead and pick that gentleman. Out later one of

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<v Speaker 6>them quickly recanted and so it is not that, guy

0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:12.280
<v Speaker 6>but it was too. Late they've been identified and Off antoine.

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<v Speaker 2>Was so you got to remember these two. Guys both

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<v Speaker 2>of these guys was heroin, addicts you. Know and the

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<v Speaker 2>one GUY i think Was coleman who, said he, said,

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<v Speaker 2>man they KNEW i was a dope thing when they arrested.

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<v Speaker 2>Me he, SAID i would say my mother Killed kennedy

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<v Speaker 2>if they had made me do.

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<v Speaker 1>It you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know he said that because this guy came to court

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<v Speaker 2>and he. Apologized coleman is the only one who. Apologized,

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<v Speaker 2>well both of them came to court and admitted why

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<v Speaker 2>they lied because the police had arrested them these same

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<v Speaker 2>two guys, before, see and they had a history with

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<v Speaker 2>these same.

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<v Speaker 1>Detectives so it kind of weigh, out you, know once

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<v Speaker 1>you start.

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<v Speaker 2>Your investigation and you really get to see how they're.

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<v Speaker 5>Connected there's a really important thing that happens or actually

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<v Speaker 5>doesn't happen during the, trial, right which is that now

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<v Speaker 5>that you've already been screwed over by the first, lawyer

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<v Speaker 5>now you get a second.

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<v Speaker 4>Lawyer the second one really fucked you.

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<v Speaker 7>Over i'm also paid for.

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<v Speaker 1>HIM i like what you said that he really.

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<v Speaker 5>Did your attorney neglected to do things that a third

0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:22.720
<v Speaker 5>grader would have, done, right which, is he neglected to

0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.000
<v Speaker 5>call the witnesses who would have placed you elsewhere at

0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.720
<v Speaker 5>the time of the. Crime and he neglected to call the.

0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:31.880
<v Speaker 5>Victim there were two. Victims one of them was a.

0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:33.760
<v Speaker 5>Lie you couldn't call the dead, guy, right but the

0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:38.800
<v Speaker 5>living Guy, Coleman, right he wanted to, testify, Right.

0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:40.960
<v Speaker 4>And sometimes guys don't want to. Testify he wanted to.

0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:45.000
<v Speaker 5>Testify so all this idiot that was representing, you AND

0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.000
<v Speaker 5>i say that in the nicest possible.

0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:47.800
<v Speaker 4>Way don't be.

0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:51.000
<v Speaker 5>Nice all this guy would have had to do is

0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.360
<v Speaker 5>say your, honor like IN, Tv i'd like to bring

0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:59.719
<v Speaker 5>to the Stands James, coleman and Then, coleman who got

0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:02.400
<v Speaker 5>shot would have said that you weren't the guy and

0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:04.560
<v Speaker 5>then you would have gone. Home and let's talk about

0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.559
<v Speaker 5>that for a. Second so were you not able to

0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.800
<v Speaker 5>say to your, attorney hey, man call the.

0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:12.160
<v Speaker 4>CALL i.

0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:16.080
<v Speaker 2>DID i said, it AND i had people getting and

0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.520
<v Speaker 2>gathering the witnesses. People that was actually that he goes

0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.840
<v Speaker 2>to a crime scene so long after the incident and

0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.880
<v Speaker 2>couldn't find. Anybody he went into the liquor store asking

0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.600
<v Speaker 2>questions about inside of a liquor. Store now keep in

0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.480
<v Speaker 2>mind that they said that this was actually going to

0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:35.840
<v Speaker 2>be a stick up. Murder they said THAT i was

0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:40.480
<v Speaker 2>robbing a dice game AND i saw these two guys

0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.160
<v Speaker 2>WHO i had some issues, with and begin to.

0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Shoot this is what they.

0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.320
<v Speaker 2>Said my intention was to rob a dice, game a

0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.440
<v Speaker 2>two dollars dice, game which was a.

0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.760
<v Speaker 4>JOKE a two dollar dice. Game, yeah and you had two.

0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.640
<v Speaker 2>CARS i had two, cars buildings and a lot of other.

0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:00.600
<v Speaker 1>Stuff so these people.

0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.040
<v Speaker 2>Say really didn't need for, hour, RIGHT i really didn't

0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:04.240
<v Speaker 2>a two dollar dice.

0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Game so he said that this was the reason for the.

0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Shooting so when they came back to me with the

0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.679
<v Speaker 2>explanation of WHY i supposed to shot these two, Guys

0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.680
<v Speaker 2>James coleman had always, said you wasn't the, guy he,

0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:20.640
<v Speaker 2>Said AND i told him.

0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.880
<v Speaker 1>That he, said but, MAN i was. Sick you.

0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:25.360
<v Speaker 2>KNOW i had a conversation with, him and he said

0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:27.600
<v Speaker 2>THAT i was. SICK i talked to this man on the,

0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:31.800
<v Speaker 2>phone you, know a whole lot of. Times and he

0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:34.600
<v Speaker 2>even went to my mother's to my parents' house and

0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.080
<v Speaker 2>told my mom THAT i lied on. Him for that,

0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.760
<v Speaker 2>reason he, said AND i need to straighten it. Out

0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:42.920
<v Speaker 2>he just couldn't get hisself, together and he said it

0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.880
<v Speaker 2>also in, court say his life had really fell apart

0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.680
<v Speaker 2>because he know he lied on. Me but then the other,

0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:53.520
<v Speaker 2>guy the real, girly his intention was. Money his family

0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.559
<v Speaker 2>wanted me to pay. Them if you give us THIS x.

0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.800
<v Speaker 1>Amount of, dollars we'll walk. Away we won't even.

0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.680
<v Speaker 5>Show up in court because was originally a witness against, you,

0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:03.800
<v Speaker 5>Right and then he was ready to testify at the,

0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:04.679
<v Speaker 5>trial and so did.

0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Lied.

0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:07.080
<v Speaker 4>RIGHT i just want to make that clear to the.

0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.800
<v Speaker 5>Audience so ultimately you had an, option WHICH i find

0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.120
<v Speaker 5>is an interesting. Thing, Right so your co defendant chose

0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.440
<v Speaker 5>to be tried by a jury and you chose to

0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:17.000
<v Speaker 5>be tried by a.

0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Judge let's talk about, that because when we went into the.

0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:25.360
<v Speaker 2>COURTROOM i kind of felt that this judge wasn't the

0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:29.000
<v Speaker 2>JUDGE i. WANTED i didn't want a bench. TRIAL i

0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:32.000
<v Speaker 2>never wanted a bench. Trial the attorney wanted a bench.

0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.400
<v Speaker 2>TRIAL i wanted to pick, twelve but he denied me

0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.559
<v Speaker 2>a jury. Trial he told me THAT i waited too

0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.040
<v Speaker 2>late to pick a jury. Trial the judge tell you

0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.400
<v Speaker 2>the judge. Did he, said we waited too late to

0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.920
<v Speaker 2>pick a jury, trial AND i wanted.

0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:47.679
<v Speaker 1>TWELVE i never trusted the.

0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:49.120
<v Speaker 4>Judge or is that a?

0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.920
<v Speaker 6>Thing you are supposed to demand trial by a jury

0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.840
<v Speaker 6>when you file your answer when you. APPEAR i don't

0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:57.800
<v Speaker 6>know if he failed to do. That if he did

0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.480
<v Speaker 6>that alone is. Malpractice but what you do is you

0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.640
<v Speaker 6>routinely ask for a jury and then if later you

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:05.040
<v Speaker 6>want to switch to a bench you can.

0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:07.680
<v Speaker 7>So either he didn't ask for it early on we

0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:08.560
<v Speaker 7>never could seess that.

0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.760
<v Speaker 6>Out or he thought the judge would be good for

0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:15.360
<v Speaker 6>them and then counseled him. Incorrectly but in any, event

0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:19.160
<v Speaker 6>he counseled him against his wishes and against what would

0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.640
<v Speaker 6>have been hopefully a much better outcome with twelve people

0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:23.280
<v Speaker 6>and minds.

0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:25.480
<v Speaker 2>YOU i walked into the police. Station they had to

0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.880
<v Speaker 2>run this guy. Down the guy is inconcrated right now

0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.520
<v Speaker 2>for the. Murder they had to run him. Down they found.

0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.320
<v Speaker 4>Him which guy are you talking? About it my co, defendant, Right?

0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:35.880
<v Speaker 4>Okay who they made my co.

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.720
<v Speaker 2>DEFENDANT i don't like claiming him BECAUSE i didn't even

0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.440
<v Speaker 2>know this. Guy but they found him. Later he found

0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.600
<v Speaker 2>him later on and arrested him and brought him. In

0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:48.960
<v Speaker 2>so Now i'm demanding a separate. Trial but they tried

0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.680
<v Speaker 2>us just the same. Time SO i felt my rights

0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.720
<v Speaker 2>was BECAUSE i almost took. OVER i, Know i'm not an,

0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.440
<v Speaker 2>attorney BUT i got good common. SENSE i don't want

0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.560
<v Speaker 2>to sit at the table with this, guy and he

0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.760
<v Speaker 2>is the. Shooter so Now i'm sitting at the. Table

0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.600
<v Speaker 2>so what he Did he simultaneously tried us in the same,

0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:09.720
<v Speaker 2>day the same court with the same.

0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:11.680
<v Speaker 4>People, yeah that seems.

0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.440
<v Speaker 5>Crazy so you end up getting convicted and being sent

0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.240
<v Speaker 5>to a really scary.

0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.200
<v Speaker 2>Place oh, Yeah pontiac prison guards to tell you welcome To.

0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Pontiac in fifteen, minutes you had your own personal, shank

0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.360
<v Speaker 2>your own personal Shak, yeah and you had. It place

0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.600
<v Speaker 2>was full of blood already when you walked through those big.

0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Doors slide, open AND i ain't never been in prison.

0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.120
<v Speaker 1>Before, man it was it was.

0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.920
<v Speaker 5>SHOCKING i read that there were three hundred and sixty

0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:43.080
<v Speaker 5>incarcerated men in the prison at that time in five.

0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.680
<v Speaker 4>Guards, yeah in one, building in one, Building yeah.

0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:50.320
<v Speaker 5>YEAH i mean that doesn't sound like a recipe for success.

0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.120
<v Speaker 5>EITHER i mean one, building and the guards had automatic,

0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 5>weapons and there were bullet, holes and there was a

0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.840
<v Speaker 5>sign that, said, yeah dropped to the ground if bullets are.

0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.160
<v Speaker 4>Fired you see that sign where you, like AM i

0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:03.200
<v Speaker 4>in a? War?

0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah that's What that's what it.

0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.360
<v Speaker 2>Was you can be on the yard in five seconds

0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.360
<v Speaker 2>and watch somebody get. Stabbed that's the reason they tell

0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.320
<v Speaker 2>you if you go, down drop to the, ground.

0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.800
<v Speaker 5>Because then they're gonna start to. Shoot being vastly outnumbered

0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.240
<v Speaker 5>as the guards, were that's their last, recourse. RIGHT i

0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.560
<v Speaker 5>mean that's a tough job. TOO i, MEAN i, mean just.

0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.440
<v Speaker 2>For the sake of knowing what exactly, happens you, know

0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:28.600
<v Speaker 2>BECAUSE i know they. Exaggerated so those guards are not

0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.720
<v Speaker 2>moving three hundred guys at one. Time in the, salehouse

0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:34.120
<v Speaker 2>you move only a section at a, Time so you

0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.160
<v Speaker 2>might see thirty, guys two, guards one in the, front

0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.480
<v Speaker 2>one in the back and then the guy own with

0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 2>the rifle that's gonna knock your brains.

0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Out And pontiac is.

0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.080
<v Speaker 5>Held, well you were in lockdown sometimes twenty four hours a.

0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 5>Day yeah, RIGHT i mean there was a. Month there

0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:49.760
<v Speaker 5>was a month where you were never let out of.

0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.280
<v Speaker 5>YOURSELF i, mean it's incredible that you have any mental,

0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.880
<v Speaker 5>faculties you, know preserved after.

0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:57.400
<v Speaker 2>That it was more than a. Month they used to

0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:01.000
<v Speaker 2>lock us down In pontiac for a. Year lock you, down.

0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.560
<v Speaker 5>So no, shower no. Nothing you get a shower once

0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.680
<v Speaker 5>a week and other than that you're locked down twenty a. Week,

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:08.720
<v Speaker 5>yeah twenty four seven in yourself.

0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.000
<v Speaker 2>With someone, else with someone else and the toilet and

0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.560
<v Speaker 2>EVERY i mean every day they would lock you. Down

0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.399
<v Speaker 2>if an incident, occurred somebody got, stabbed they'd lock you.

0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:22.359
<v Speaker 2>Down you'd be locked up six. Months they let you

0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.560
<v Speaker 2>off two, days somebody else get, hit they lock you

0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:28.560
<v Speaker 2>up another six. Months And i'm talking about complete lock.

0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Up pontiac was held because it was like it was

0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:34.800
<v Speaker 2>almost like a, supermax but it was one of the

0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:39.119
<v Speaker 2>roughest max joints In. Illinois and every day you see

0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:43.000
<v Speaker 2>either someone getting, raped somebody getting, stabbed somebody getting beat

0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.119
<v Speaker 2>half to death or somebody getting shot by the.

0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.840
<v Speaker 4>Guards that's, Insane and then you.

0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.360
<v Speaker 2>Talk about the. TRAUMA i watched the man in front

0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.560
<v Speaker 2>of my. CELL i had just finished working. OUT i

0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.119
<v Speaker 2>came in to get in the, shower and the guard

0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.119
<v Speaker 2>was telling him to put his hands, down and he

0:17:57.280 --> 0:17:59.879
<v Speaker 2>was talking with his, hands and he shot him so.

0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Fast you just see.

0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:05.359
<v Speaker 2>The blood, jump like from the first floor to the third.

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.119
<v Speaker 2>Floor he hit him so fast and.

0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.080
<v Speaker 4>Killed the man instantly because he was talking on his.

0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.959
<v Speaker 2>Hands, yeah you, know because potential. Violence you, know guys

0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.360
<v Speaker 2>do that when they're getting ready to do. Something so

0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.280
<v Speaker 2>these are the. SIGNS i guess he blew his brains.

0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Out but this place is what you saw every. Day

0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:26.720
<v Speaker 2>either you, came you got up to go to work

0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:28.439
<v Speaker 2>in the. MORNING i used to leave out five in the.

0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:30.560
<v Speaker 2>MORNING i had an institutional, job SO i work all

0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.320
<v Speaker 2>over the, penitentiary death, row protect the.

0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:34.919
<v Speaker 1>CUSTODY i work all over the.

0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.320
<v Speaker 2>Joint SO i get ready to leave out in the

0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 2>morning AND i walk past the guy's sell he's hanging, there.

0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.200
<v Speaker 1>Just hanging. There you. KNOW i to see so much

0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.320
<v Speaker 1>of it you become numb to. It and that's a.

0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:50.040
<v Speaker 5>Shame and the scene you're describing Makes Shaw Shank redemptions

0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:50.960
<v Speaker 5>sound like A disney.

0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.520
<v Speaker 4>MOVIE i, mean it's just it. Was, yeah it's as

0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:56.640
<v Speaker 4>bad as it. Gets, yeah it's.

0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:02.320
<v Speaker 5>So bizarre that we have it absolutely, wrong absolutely. Backwards

0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:07.480
<v Speaker 5>and In Western european countries and In scandinavian countries.

0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:08.720
<v Speaker 4>And all over the world they take the opposite.

0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:12.119
<v Speaker 5>Approach their thing is when you get, out you're going

0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.520
<v Speaker 5>to have to live next door to, somebody maybe. Me,

0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.440
<v Speaker 5>Right so at one point a couple of good things, happen,

0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:23.080
<v Speaker 5>Right you found sort of hope and sanity and music, again,

0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.800
<v Speaker 5>Right AND i thought that was a brave thing that you,

0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:29.480
<v Speaker 5>did because there were at the time no musical instruments

0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.399
<v Speaker 5>in this prison hell whatever you want to call, it,

0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.560
<v Speaker 5>right and you were able to convince the, warden.

0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.320
<v Speaker 1>Superintendent kelly it was my, buddy.

0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.400
<v Speaker 5>Right so he at your behas he ordered some instruments

0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.439
<v Speaker 5>and you got to put together a little band and

0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:47.680
<v Speaker 5>get a little some kind of, JOY i, guess, yeah.

0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:50.000
<v Speaker 2>Because we had been on lockdown so much and they

0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.840
<v Speaker 2>had had some instruments they had it was. Garbage So

0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:58.280
<v Speaker 2>kelly had decided that if that would keep us peaceful

0:19:58.320 --> 0:19:58.680
<v Speaker 2>around a.

0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:00.520
<v Speaker 1>Joint well ordered some more.

0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.679
<v Speaker 2>Instruments so he ordered some more drums and guitars and,

0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:05.000
<v Speaker 2>amps and it was.

0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Called The Power Soul, Band Our Soul Power Soul.

0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:12.040
<v Speaker 2>Band and so we played and most of the guys

0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.520
<v Speaker 2>was in the band had natural. Life so those guys

0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.320
<v Speaker 2>are still locked. Up so we had we had a nice,

0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:21.240
<v Speaker 2>bandman and the unit was good and it kept things kind.

0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:22.800
<v Speaker 2>OF i, mean we didn't go on lock down for

0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:24.159
<v Speaker 2>like maybe a year and a.

0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:25.439
<v Speaker 1>Half you, know it.

0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Was because guys wanted to get out when we. Performed

0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:30.239
<v Speaker 2>they wanted to be, there they wanted to see. It you,

0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.840
<v Speaker 2>know it's like you going to a, party.

0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.400
<v Speaker 5>Right so they had a reason right to not want

0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:37.399
<v Speaker 5>to be violent because if they, did they would be

0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:41.080
<v Speaker 5>depriving this little bit of, hope joy, music you, know

0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:44.359
<v Speaker 5>life distraction everyone to call. It it is important for

0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:48.240
<v Speaker 5>people to recognize we need to improve the, conditions but

0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:53.359
<v Speaker 5>also bring arts and bring education into the, prison recognizing

0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.199
<v Speaker 5>that ninety five plus percent of people in prison are

0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:57.960
<v Speaker 5>going to get out at some point and have to

0:20:57.960 --> 0:20:58.439
<v Speaker 5>rejoin the.

0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.760
<v Speaker 2>Community WHEN i was, LIKE i heard a politician, say

0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.760
<v Speaker 2>why SHOULD i spend twenty thousand dollars on a convict

0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:07.840
<v Speaker 2>to get an education WHEN i have to pay for

0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.200
<v Speaker 2>my sons and daughters to go to. School and they took,

0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:14.239
<v Speaker 2>school they took the college because you should to get

0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:17.560
<v Speaker 2>a bachelor's associated all kind of degrees in, prison and

0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.240
<v Speaker 2>guys come out and make a difference in their. Lives

0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:22.000
<v Speaker 2>they'd come out and do better than what they did

0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:23.760
<v Speaker 2>when they went in because they was able to get a,

0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:25.240
<v Speaker 2>job come employed.

0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:27.919
<v Speaker 1>Today it's not you come, out you just.

0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:31.239
<v Speaker 5>Out that's an extremely ignorant thing for the guy to,

0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:33.880
<v Speaker 5>say because if he had done any studying at, all

0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:37.760
<v Speaker 5>he would know that in places where those kind of programs,

0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:42.080
<v Speaker 5>exist the people coming out have a tremendous rate of,

0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:47.000
<v Speaker 5>success staying crime, free paying, taxes contributing to the, community

0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:48.520
<v Speaker 5>reconnecting with, family.

0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:49.840
<v Speaker 4>All those positive aspects of.

0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 5>Society so even if you're not looking at it from

0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:53.040
<v Speaker 5>a human point of, view just looking at it from

0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:56.280
<v Speaker 5>a protecting and improving society point of, view the benefits

0:21:56.359 --> 0:22:01.879
<v Speaker 5>are immense and only the most maya and closed minded

0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.520
<v Speaker 5>individuals can see it any other. Way so music came

0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:08.040
<v Speaker 5>in to give a little something back to.

0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:09.919
<v Speaker 4>Your, soul, right give you a little bit of.

0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:13.679
<v Speaker 5>Hope and then you had sort of the guy you

0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:16.879
<v Speaker 5>would call me your, angel, right sort of appear In,

0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:19.520
<v Speaker 5>miraculous who was actually a real estate, lawyer.

0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:20.919
<v Speaker 1>Right and he was an angel for.

0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:23.359
<v Speaker 4>Real so let's talk about. Him his name what was

0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:24.600
<v Speaker 4>his name of This Joseph.

0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.840
<v Speaker 5>Howard Or Howard, Joseph Howard, Joseph, right tell me about this,

0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:28.800
<v Speaker 5>Guy Howard.

0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:31.440
<v Speaker 2>Joseph first of, all let me tell YOU i never

0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:34.080
<v Speaker 2>admitted to ever being in love with a, man BUT

0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.440
<v Speaker 2>i love this, man. Right this is my Little jewish.

0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:41.520
<v Speaker 2>Love this is my. Man How joseph was an, angel you.

0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Know he came in and WHAT i liked about him

0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:46.919
<v Speaker 2>was he was, Bossy Like, lord he's, bossy, Right and

0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:49.920
<v Speaker 2>he came in and one DAY i was working out

0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.520
<v Speaker 2>on the yard and he, said, man you got a,

0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:57.400
<v Speaker 2>visit so you gotta. VISIT i said a? Visit he, said,

0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:00.520
<v Speaker 2>yeah your. ATTORNEY i ain't got no, attorney so, yeah

0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:03.359
<v Speaker 2>you got an. Attorney SO i. GO i go to

0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:06.160
<v Speaker 2>the front to the visiting, room and there he. Is

0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:10.960
<v Speaker 2>he's standing. There The jewish guy had on lorraine, coat

0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:14.639
<v Speaker 2>little flip, flops looking Like, colombo Remember.

0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:17.560
<v Speaker 1>Colombo and they come in and that's who you remind me.

0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Of So i'm looking at him and so he, said

0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:22.320
<v Speaker 2>say that. Twine he, said, okay he's sitting. Down SO

0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:22.680
<v Speaker 2>i sat.

0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:25.280
<v Speaker 1>Down i'm, like what's this old man telling me to?

0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Say boss me?

0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Around and he said sit, Down SO i sat. Down

0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:31.680
<v Speaker 2>he Said i'm your. ATTORNEY i, said you my. Attorney

0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:34.600
<v Speaker 2>SO i was, like, yeah so this is a, joke,

0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:36.600
<v Speaker 2>Right i'm thinking it's a. Joke he, said, No i'm your.

0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:39.640
<v Speaker 2>Attorney he, said your sister and my son had been

0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:44.040
<v Speaker 2>talking AND i read your, case he, said AND i

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:44.919
<v Speaker 2>just need you to be.

0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:47.679
<v Speaker 1>Patient we're going to get you out of, here you.

0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Know AND i just looked at him like, this this

0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:50.000
<v Speaker 1>has got to be a.

0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:55.680
<v Speaker 2>Joke so he drove three hours one way to come see,

0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:59.520
<v Speaker 2>me and he was about seventy two, then and he

0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:02.359
<v Speaker 2>drove back, home and he drove. Again he came, again

0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:05.120
<v Speaker 2>AND i, said are you driving away down by? Yourself

0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:07.159
<v Speaker 2>he said, yeah give me a chance to.

0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:08.640
<v Speaker 1>Think so he would.

0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Come people would laugh at. Him he, said get you

0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:12.879
<v Speaker 2>out of. Here SO i PUT i put faith in

0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:16.199
<v Speaker 2>that he'd ask for. Nothing he didn't ask for, anything you.

0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:19.760
<v Speaker 2>KNOW i tried to pay for his gas and buying food.

0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:21.439
<v Speaker 5>And he's, well he had he had a phrase that

0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:23.000
<v Speaker 5>he would repeat to, you, right which.

0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:25.399
<v Speaker 2>Was that's when we made it to the county. Jail oh,

0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:27.720
<v Speaker 2>yeah he. Would every day he would, say so you're

0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:30.640
<v Speaker 2>ready to go. HOME i, said of, Course i'm ready

0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:31.840
<v Speaker 2>to go. Home he, said are you ready to go?

0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:34.199
<v Speaker 2>Home you got some clothes your, mama bring me some.

0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:34.920
<v Speaker 2>CLOTHES i said.

0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:38.000
<v Speaker 1>No so it went on for like two, years almost

0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:38.439
<v Speaker 1>to that.

0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:40.639
<v Speaker 4>Day you guys had like a routine on.

0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:42.080
<v Speaker 1>Him, yeah we had a. Routine.

0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:44.879
<v Speaker 2>MAN i MEAN i loved his heart because he was.

0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:47.840
<v Speaker 2>Consistent you, know he was a, man had no greed.

0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:51.240
<v Speaker 2>Involved he didn't ask for. Anything he always told, me he,

0:24:51.320 --> 0:24:53.520
<v Speaker 2>said nobody know your case better than you.

0:24:53.560 --> 0:24:55.240
<v Speaker 1>Do attention to.

0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:57.640
<v Speaker 4>It he was a real estate, lawyer, Right actually he was.

0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:02.080
<v Speaker 2>A criminal attorney that higher then he just did real,

0:25:02.200 --> 0:25:05.320
<v Speaker 2>estate got, it just did real estate for, years and

0:25:05.400 --> 0:25:07.880
<v Speaker 2>so when he saw my, case he wanted to get

0:25:07.920 --> 0:25:08.240
<v Speaker 2>back in the.

0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:10.919
<v Speaker 1>Game he, said you would be my last. Case AND i.

0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:12.400
<v Speaker 1>WAS i was actually his last.

0:25:12.480 --> 0:25:14.679
<v Speaker 4>Case it's kind of a. Miracle, yeah actually.

0:25:14.800 --> 0:25:16.480
<v Speaker 5>Right he would just pop up out of nowhere AND

0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:18.440
<v Speaker 5>i could see why you thought you were being punked

0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:19.920
<v Speaker 5>so to, speak, right.

0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:21.760
<v Speaker 1>He did punk, me he, did he made me sit.

0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:26.080
<v Speaker 5>Down so ultimately your Little jewish guardian angel appears on

0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:27.200
<v Speaker 5>the scene and.

0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:28.520
<v Speaker 4>He did what he said he was going to.

0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:30.760
<v Speaker 5>Do he did because otherwise you wouldn't be sitting here

0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:34.360
<v Speaker 5>because you had your sentence was you had two sentences,

0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:36.440
<v Speaker 5>right for two different, crimes because.

0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:41.360
<v Speaker 2>Murders temp, murder and they charged me with this arm

0:25:41.400 --> 0:25:43.440
<v Speaker 2>and the farm within the city limits by.

0:25:43.920 --> 0:25:45.920
<v Speaker 1>Felon they gave me a temp.

0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:49.000
<v Speaker 5>Murder this was nineteen ninety, Two, antoine and you were

0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:51.760
<v Speaker 5>sending sixty years for murder and twenty five years for attempted.

0:25:51.800 --> 0:25:54.640
<v Speaker 5>Murder so he came along just in the nicked time

0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:56.080
<v Speaker 5>because you weren't going to spend the.

0:25:56.040 --> 0:25:57.520
<v Speaker 4>Rest of your life in. Prison, yeah there was no

0:25:57.560 --> 0:25:58.000
<v Speaker 4>doubt about.

0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:01.359
<v Speaker 5>It so ultimately he. Won and what did judge say

0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:03.120
<v Speaker 5>when he when he vacated your?

0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:03.600
<v Speaker 4>Conviction?

0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh, man the judge was, like, uh he asked me

0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:08.800
<v Speaker 2>IF i had any last? Words you, know DID i

0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:09.320
<v Speaker 2>want to say?

0:26:09.320 --> 0:26:09.720
<v Speaker 1>Anything?

0:26:10.359 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 2>MAN i kind of went off in the courtroom BECAUSE

0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:15.080
<v Speaker 2>i told the, JUDGE i said the state's attorney knew

0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:17.240
<v Speaker 2>all the time that they was lying on. Me he

0:26:17.320 --> 0:26:20.040
<v Speaker 2>knew all the time because he kept telling, me you

0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:22.440
<v Speaker 2>give us what we, want you can go. Home he

0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:25.199
<v Speaker 2>knew all the. Time So judge, said Mister, day he,

0:26:25.240 --> 0:26:29.280
<v Speaker 2>said he, said how you. FEEL i, Said i'm. Okay he,

0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:33.080
<v Speaker 2>said well the days you're. Lucky day you're going. Home and,

0:26:33.200 --> 0:26:35.960
<v Speaker 2>MAN i, MEAN i wasn't even, shocked you, know it

0:26:36.040 --> 0:26:37.600
<v Speaker 2>was just LIKE i was just standing there.

0:26:37.920 --> 0:26:40.280
<v Speaker 5>And what was what was YOUR i, Mean i'm just

0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:42.600
<v Speaker 5>trying to have this beautiful picture in my mind of

0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:43.720
<v Speaker 5>you And.

0:26:44.400 --> 0:26:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Howard Mister, howard he just re stove and hugged. Me you.

0:26:47.800 --> 0:26:50.119
<v Speaker 2>Know, well let me tell you this part before we

0:26:50.160 --> 0:26:51.959
<v Speaker 2>get to that good. Part let me tell you how

0:26:51.960 --> 0:26:54.520
<v Speaker 2>the state's attorneys treated. Him they used to laugh at.

0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:57.639
<v Speaker 2>Him state's attorney used to look at me while we're

0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:00.199
<v Speaker 2>sitting in the courtroom in his fancy. Suit mister how

0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:02.800
<v Speaker 2>would have on flip flops and they would laugh at

0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:04.879
<v Speaker 2>him like he was a. Joke they would laugh at

0:27:04.960 --> 0:27:07.480
<v Speaker 2>him like, so the state's attorney would sit back in his,

0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:08.360
<v Speaker 2>chair do this to.

0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:11.119
<v Speaker 4>Me he's pulling his finger across his throat like you, know.

0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:15.520
<v Speaker 2>Like he's slashing my throat Like i'm. Dead alison don't

0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:15.920
<v Speaker 2>worry about.

0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:19.680
<v Speaker 1>HIM i got. Him he, Said i'm good with bullies

0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:20.400
<v Speaker 1>because they're.

0:27:20.440 --> 0:27:23.280
<v Speaker 2>Bullies at that, day you should have seen the expressions

0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:26.720
<v Speaker 2>on these guys. Faces they just couldn't believe that this

0:27:26.760 --> 0:27:28.280
<v Speaker 2>little man just beat them, up this.

0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:29.199
<v Speaker 4>Bad the.

0:27:30.920 --> 0:27:34.280
<v Speaker 2>Wrong little, jew you, know and he cursed like a.

0:27:34.359 --> 0:27:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Seller so he was cursing all the while we were in.

0:27:36.359 --> 0:27:40.280
<v Speaker 2>Court he was mfing and all kind of. Stuff he

0:27:40.440 --> 0:27:43.480
<v Speaker 2>just didn't play no. Games and this judge told, me you,

0:27:43.480 --> 0:27:46.880
<v Speaker 2>know he was, saying you've been blessed because this man

0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:47.520
<v Speaker 2>did his due.

0:27:47.560 --> 0:27:49.080
<v Speaker 1>Diligence he got me out of.

0:27:49.119 --> 0:27:51.720
<v Speaker 5>There i'm getting a chill right. Now so he's become

0:27:52.040 --> 0:27:55.680
<v Speaker 5>sort of a mythical. Figure he has a program named after,

0:27:55.760 --> 0:27:57.159
<v Speaker 5>him oh, yeah In illinois and.

0:27:57.240 --> 0:27:59.080
<v Speaker 4>Stuff he's not around, anymore.

0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:02.240
<v Speaker 1>Yes, see because his work is my.

0:28:02.359 --> 0:28:05.600
<v Speaker 5>Work his spirit lives on in you and also in

0:28:05.920 --> 0:28:23.960
<v Speaker 5>the program that's named after. Him, So, antoine the way

0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:28.399
<v Speaker 5>that you found out about your conviction being vacated is

0:28:28.480 --> 0:28:32.639
<v Speaker 5>a very. Unusual in, Fact i've never heard anything quite like.

0:28:32.680 --> 0:28:34.919
<v Speaker 4>It can you share that? Story me and a.

0:28:34.920 --> 0:28:38.160
<v Speaker 2>Guy Kenny, williams we were on the yard At stateville,

0:28:38.280 --> 0:28:41.600
<v Speaker 2>actually when he transferred me To stateville who was working

0:28:41.640 --> 0:28:44.360
<v Speaker 2>out on the. Yard he was reading the newspaper that

0:28:44.400 --> 0:28:45.240
<v Speaker 2>we're not supposed to.

0:28:45.240 --> 0:28:46.080
<v Speaker 1>Have in the.

0:28:46.000 --> 0:28:49.760
<v Speaker 2>Newspaper it had my case had been. Overturned so this

0:28:49.800 --> 0:28:52.000
<v Speaker 2>guy had he had called my name. OUT i thought

0:28:52.000 --> 0:28:54.520
<v Speaker 2>he was just. Joking he called my name out. Again

0:28:54.560 --> 0:28:56.360
<v Speaker 2>he was, like, man so you got to come see.

0:28:56.360 --> 0:28:58.480
<v Speaker 2>This SO i walked over and looked in the. Newspaper

0:28:59.160 --> 0:29:01.760
<v Speaker 2>it was like. Wow SO i called my. Attorney my

0:29:01.760 --> 0:29:04.480
<v Speaker 2>attorney THOUGHT i was joking and he didn't believe it

0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:06.280
<v Speaker 2>because he didn't know anything about.

0:29:06.280 --> 0:29:08.920
<v Speaker 4>It was It April fools or something that it felt like.

0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:12.040
<v Speaker 2>It, Yeah so WHEN i told, him he went, crazy you,

0:29:12.080 --> 0:29:14.320
<v Speaker 2>know he was like cursing me, out Thinking i'm. Joking

0:29:14.600 --> 0:29:16.320
<v Speaker 2>so he went and got the. Paper he ran out

0:29:16.360 --> 0:29:18.440
<v Speaker 2>of his, office walked and got the, paper came, back

0:29:18.960 --> 0:29:21.200
<v Speaker 2>AND i called him. Back he was, like it is

0:29:21.240 --> 0:29:24.000
<v Speaker 2>they overturned the. Case so he was trying to figure

0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:27.600
<v Speaker 2>out how could they possibly do this because time run

0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:31.760
<v Speaker 2>at that moment and you only have a certain amount

0:29:31.800 --> 0:29:35.040
<v Speaker 2>of time to meet it before you probably miss it

0:29:35.200 --> 0:29:36.920
<v Speaker 2>and miss all the pill.

0:29:37.080 --> 0:29:40.160
<v Speaker 1>Processes so he went and got right on top.

0:29:40.000 --> 0:29:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Of it and then maybe like a year, later they moved

0:29:42.880 --> 0:29:43.959
<v Speaker 2>me back to the county.

0:29:44.040 --> 0:29:47.440
<v Speaker 5>Jail now that's another, thing, Right so anyone listening would, Say,

0:29:47.560 --> 0:29:50.440
<v Speaker 5>okay well it's in the. Newspaper your conviction has been.

0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:54.120
<v Speaker 5>Overturned so wouldn't they want to send you home at that? Point,

0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:57.560
<v Speaker 5>no not exactly, right not In, chicago not at that, time.

0:29:57.680 --> 0:30:01.240
<v Speaker 2>Not the processes of. Politics back to the county. Jail

0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:03.440
<v Speaker 2>so now you go, back and you go back in

0:30:03.440 --> 0:30:06.200
<v Speaker 2>front of the. Judge he listened to the new, evidence

0:30:06.280 --> 0:30:08.959
<v Speaker 2>he listened to all this stuff that went. On SO

0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:11.880
<v Speaker 2>i was in the county jail for maybe a little

0:30:11.880 --> 0:30:14.600
<v Speaker 2>over two. YEARS i was a. BARBER i was cutting

0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:16.880
<v Speaker 2>the hand in the county and working in a. BARBERSHOP

0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:20.960
<v Speaker 2>i was In division, eleven pretty, good, clean pretty white.

0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:23.640
<v Speaker 2>Building it was real neat and clean over. There and

0:30:23.680 --> 0:30:25.600
<v Speaker 2>they moved me one, night maybe like four in the

0:30:25.640 --> 0:30:30.680
<v Speaker 2>morning or am moved me To division. ONE i didn't know.

0:30:30.720 --> 0:30:33.200
<v Speaker 2>WHY i hadn't done, anything hadn't been in no, trouble

0:30:33.480 --> 0:30:36.320
<v Speaker 2>straight and narrow so far put me in the cell

0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:39.080
<v Speaker 2>with a. GUY i didn't know who he was at the,

0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:41.960
<v Speaker 2>time but my son was.

0:30:42.080 --> 0:30:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Killed he god.

0:30:43.000 --> 0:30:45.120
<v Speaker 2>Killed in two thousand AND i came home two thousand and.

0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Two he was seventeen when they moved me From division.

0:30:48.480 --> 0:30:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Eleven they moved me To division, one and they put

0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:53.440
<v Speaker 2>me in the cell with the guy that actually killed.

0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:56.480
<v Speaker 5>Him they put you in the, cell, yeah putting the

0:30:56.560 --> 0:30:57.480
<v Speaker 5>guy who killed your.

0:30:57.520 --> 0:30:59.840
<v Speaker 4>Son and it wasn't a long. Time but this is re,

0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:06.440
<v Speaker 4>right press, right AND i, mean my head is, exploding, Right.

0:31:08.160 --> 0:31:12.120
<v Speaker 5>And they did this on, purpose, right because it was

0:31:12.200 --> 0:31:14.719
<v Speaker 5>not a. Coincidence and it's also strange that they did

0:31:14.800 --> 0:31:16.680
<v Speaker 5>it at four in the, morning, right it's not the

0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:19.040
<v Speaker 5>typical time that they move. You and they've been moved

0:31:19.040 --> 0:31:23.320
<v Speaker 5>for no reason except there was a reason because from

0:31:23.320 --> 0:31:25.840
<v Speaker 5>WHAT i can figure, out they didn't like the fact

0:31:25.840 --> 0:31:27.640
<v Speaker 5>that you were going to get out and that you

0:31:27.720 --> 0:31:30.560
<v Speaker 5>had proven them. Wrong you and with the help of

0:31:30.600 --> 0:31:36.920
<v Speaker 5>this magical seventy something year old attorney who didn't dress

0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:39.080
<v Speaker 5>right and was being made by the.

0:31:39.120 --> 0:31:41.200
<v Speaker 4>Prosecutor so they didn't like.

0:31:41.240 --> 0:31:43.560
<v Speaker 5>That so it sounds to me AND i hate to

0:31:43.640 --> 0:31:45.480
<v Speaker 5>think in terms that are so.

0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:48.880
<v Speaker 4>Sinister but you were a big guy back, then, Right

0:31:49.360 --> 0:31:50.760
<v Speaker 4>you were bench pressing five hundred.

0:31:50.760 --> 0:31:52.960
<v Speaker 1>POUNDS i was in the fire. Club we just called

0:31:52.960 --> 0:31:53.600
<v Speaker 1>the five hundred.

0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:57.000
<v Speaker 5>Club so they moved you to this, cell thinking this

0:31:57.040 --> 0:31:59.720
<v Speaker 5>guy meaning, you you're going to kill this other, guy

0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:01.200
<v Speaker 5>BECAUSE i mean.

0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:06.080
<v Speaker 4>It SEEMED i, mean of, course like WHAT.

0:32:05.960 --> 0:32:08.240
<v Speaker 2>I did recognize WAS i went back in my head

0:32:08.360 --> 0:32:12.240
<v Speaker 2>for a little while BECAUSE i remember WHEN i was In,

0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:16.280
<v Speaker 2>pontiac how the state's attorney had came and investigated, me

0:32:16.680 --> 0:32:19.800
<v Speaker 2>was asking all these questions around, me AND i was

0:32:19.920 --> 0:32:22.400
<v Speaker 2>never supposed to know that they were even, there BUT

0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:26.000
<v Speaker 2>i found, out and it was kind of this made

0:32:26.040 --> 0:32:28.960
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more familiar to what the process was

0:32:29.000 --> 0:32:31.960
<v Speaker 2>of them keeping me. Incocerated IF i catch another, case

0:32:32.600 --> 0:32:35.280
<v Speaker 2>then my appeal is non and. Void it's just not gonna.

0:32:35.320 --> 0:32:39.320
<v Speaker 2>Happen so they put me in this predicament with this.

0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Guy either he was gonna kill me OR i was

0:32:41.360 --> 0:32:43.880
<v Speaker 2>gonna kill. Him it would have been a lose lose

0:32:43.920 --> 0:32:47.120
<v Speaker 2>situation for me to do something or have something done to.

0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:50.239
<v Speaker 1>Me, SO i, mean it's a chess. Game they made their,

0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:51.280
<v Speaker 1>moves SO i had to make.

0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Mine my move was to call the guard and tell

0:32:53.960 --> 0:32:56.560
<v Speaker 2>THEM i refuse housing SO i could be taken out

0:32:56.600 --> 0:32:59.560
<v Speaker 2>of this. Situation you, know because at this, POINT i,

0:32:59.560 --> 0:33:00.760
<v Speaker 2>MEAN i got great common.

0:33:00.760 --> 0:33:03.000
<v Speaker 1>Sense i'm this close to. Home i'm not going to blow.

0:33:03.000 --> 0:33:06.840
<v Speaker 5>It even for the literally the most extreme situation you

0:33:06.880 --> 0:33:07.800
<v Speaker 5>can possibly find.

0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:10.320
<v Speaker 2>Yourself it wouldn't have did. Anything it wouldn't have brought them. Back,

0:33:10.480 --> 0:33:13.160
<v Speaker 2>no IF i had to beat them to a, pope

0:33:13.160 --> 0:33:16.200
<v Speaker 2>it wouldn't have brought him. Back so man of the,

0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:18.400
<v Speaker 2>matter you, know it's just at a point you just

0:33:18.440 --> 0:33:20.280
<v Speaker 2>have to think about the future.

0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:23.320
<v Speaker 4>Now that that's an incredible it's a mind blowing.

0:33:23.360 --> 0:33:25.080
<v Speaker 1>Story AND i never shared this.

0:33:25.200 --> 0:33:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Story so if people don't even know about, this you

0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:29.760
<v Speaker 2>seem to get all getting it all out of me,

0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:32.120
<v Speaker 2>today know what going on around, here.

0:33:32.240 --> 0:33:34.320
<v Speaker 5>None of us could possibly. Understand nobody that hasn't been

0:33:34.320 --> 0:33:36.840
<v Speaker 5>doing that. Understand but it's a miracle that you were

0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:40.880
<v Speaker 5>able to resist an impulse that must have been as

0:33:40.960 --> 0:33:42.680
<v Speaker 5>powerful as any that anybody could.

0:33:42.760 --> 0:33:43.840
<v Speaker 4>Imagine but it, IS.

0:33:44.080 --> 0:33:45.960
<v Speaker 1>I, mean it's it's a. Thing you, Know.

0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:51.680
<v Speaker 2>I've always heard the term of feeling your blood. Boil you,

0:33:51.680 --> 0:33:53.000
<v Speaker 2>know how you just feel your body go.

0:33:52.960 --> 0:33:53.560
<v Speaker 1>To a whole nother.

0:33:53.600 --> 0:33:56.040
<v Speaker 4>Temperature that would be. It youth get the.

0:33:56.120 --> 0:33:57.680
<v Speaker 1>Rise and you get the.

0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:02.680
<v Speaker 2>Sweating and that's WHAT i was going. Through BECAUSE i

0:34:02.720 --> 0:34:04.800
<v Speaker 2>have told myself over and over and over and over

0:34:04.800 --> 0:34:05.040
<v Speaker 2>and over.

0:34:05.080 --> 0:34:07.480
<v Speaker 1>Again IF i ever see, them What i'm going to

0:34:07.560 --> 0:34:07.840
<v Speaker 1>do to?

0:34:07.920 --> 0:34:11.160
<v Speaker 2>Them, right you, know IF i ever because you always,

0:34:11.200 --> 0:34:13.759
<v Speaker 2>talk you avenge your family and stand up for your,

0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:16.960
<v Speaker 2>family and when you put in these situations in this,

0:34:17.080 --> 0:34:20.200
<v Speaker 2>circumstance you, KNOW i always said that to, myself SO

0:34:20.239 --> 0:34:21.840
<v Speaker 2>i had to escalate.

0:34:22.400 --> 0:34:23.160
<v Speaker 1>Immediately you.

0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:25.960
<v Speaker 5>Know it's almost like who could blame? You you're in

0:34:26.200 --> 0:34:30.399
<v Speaker 5>year eight or nine of your wrongful. Incarceration you've been

0:34:30.480 --> 0:34:33.600
<v Speaker 5>through everything that they can throw at, you and now

0:34:33.800 --> 0:34:35.640
<v Speaker 5>you just lived through the worst thing that a parent

0:34:35.640 --> 0:34:37.279
<v Speaker 5>can go through is to lose a child and then

0:34:37.719 --> 0:34:39.919
<v Speaker 5>to be put in a tiny cell with a. Guy

0:34:40.800 --> 0:34:43.200
<v Speaker 5>but you're, right it wouldn't accomplish. Anything but it's easy

0:34:43.239 --> 0:34:44.920
<v Speaker 5>to say from, here you didn't. Here it's easy to.

0:34:44.960 --> 0:34:48.520
<v Speaker 5>Say so this is SOMETHING i really want to highlight

0:34:48.680 --> 0:34:52.640
<v Speaker 5>because in twenty five years of doing, this the first

0:34:52.719 --> 0:34:56.439
<v Speaker 5>thing that people ask me almost every TIME i tell

0:34:56.480 --> 0:35:00.279
<v Speaker 5>a story like yours is do they get compensated to this?

0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:02.080
<v Speaker 4>Man did this? Woman tell? Me they? Get?

0:35:02.520 --> 0:35:04.160
<v Speaker 5>Yeah and you should see like the eyes are bugging,

0:35:04.200 --> 0:35:05.880
<v Speaker 5>out like you, know because if you if you're not

0:35:05.880 --> 0:35:07.920
<v Speaker 5>familiar with, this and a lot of people, aren't when

0:35:08.000 --> 0:35:10.360
<v Speaker 5>you first hear one of these, stories you get so. Shook,

0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:12.919
<v Speaker 5>Right tell me they get, Paid tell me they get

0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:13.719
<v Speaker 5>something when they get.

0:35:13.719 --> 0:35:15.040
<v Speaker 4>Out and you, KNOW.

0:35:15.040 --> 0:35:17.120
<v Speaker 5>I think it's shocking to a lot of people to

0:35:17.239 --> 0:35:21.160
<v Speaker 5>learn that a lot of exgneries get, nothing, period full,

0:35:21.200 --> 0:35:23.640
<v Speaker 5>stop end of. Story, right they just have to go

0:35:23.760 --> 0:35:27.840
<v Speaker 5>figure it out with this twenty year gap or whatever

0:35:27.920 --> 0:35:30.719
<v Speaker 5>it might. Be but even if you do get, paid

0:35:30.760 --> 0:35:33.120
<v Speaker 5>because people see the stories in the, paper sometimes somebody

0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:36.120
<v Speaker 5>successfully sues for civil rights violation or whatever it is

0:35:36.160 --> 0:35:39.880
<v Speaker 5>and gets millions of, dollars which they, deserve and still

0:35:39.920 --> 0:35:42.200
<v Speaker 5>DOESN'T i don't know too many people that would, say.

0:35:42.000 --> 0:35:43.680
<v Speaker 4>OH i GOT i got a deal for.

0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:47.640
<v Speaker 5>You you're going to do ten twenty years in the most dangerous,

0:35:47.719 --> 0:35:50.400
<v Speaker 5>place one of the most dangerous places on, Earth like

0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:53.120
<v Speaker 5>you literally be better off trying to find diamonds in

0:35:53.160 --> 0:35:57.080
<v Speaker 5>a river In africa with with crocodiles and, hippos then

0:35:57.120 --> 0:35:59.160
<v Speaker 5>you would be In pontiac. PRISON i don't know too

0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:00.759
<v Speaker 5>many people that would, say, Ye i'll take that. Deal,

0:36:00.880 --> 0:36:03.319
<v Speaker 5>Yeah i'm gonna go do that ten years and give

0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:04.920
<v Speaker 5>me the money at the Other so that's out the.

0:36:04.920 --> 0:36:07.920
<v Speaker 5>Window but the fact is that even the people who

0:36:07.960 --> 0:36:11.839
<v Speaker 5>do get compensated have to wait an incredibly long, time

0:36:11.960 --> 0:36:14.279
<v Speaker 5>years and years to get their, money and in the

0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:18.200
<v Speaker 5>meantime they're stuck in sort of a twilight. Zone, Right

0:36:18.400 --> 0:36:20.840
<v Speaker 5>and there's no better example than. YOURS i want to

0:36:20.840 --> 0:36:21.239
<v Speaker 5>talk about.

0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:22.200
<v Speaker 4>THAT i want to hear it in your own.

0:36:22.239 --> 0:36:25.560
<v Speaker 5>Words the judge has just, said today's your lucky. Day

0:36:26.280 --> 0:36:29.400
<v Speaker 5>do you want to go? Home you And howard are, hugging,

0:36:29.640 --> 0:36:33.480
<v Speaker 5>right Mister. Howard and you didn't just walk out the. Door, No,

0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:36.520
<v Speaker 5>no there was a. Process, oh the process is.

0:36:36.960 --> 0:36:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Terrible so after The sokar, release it took me almost

0:36:41.000 --> 0:36:43.160
<v Speaker 2>eight hours to get out of, that if not more,

0:36:43.800 --> 0:36:46.160
<v Speaker 2>so they run you right back through the. Process SO

0:36:46.360 --> 0:36:49.680
<v Speaker 2>i had to go back down in this dungeon in

0:36:49.760 --> 0:36:52.480
<v Speaker 2>the bottom of the county. Jail in the, bottom it's

0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:55.840
<v Speaker 2>the last basement in the county. Jail so it's really

0:36:56.440 --> 0:37:00.560
<v Speaker 2>pipes and plumbing and rats and everything just in this, place,

0:37:00.680 --> 0:37:03.120
<v Speaker 2>Right and it's a room a little bigger than this,

0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:07.560
<v Speaker 2>room and it's a pile of. Clothes so in these

0:37:07.600 --> 0:37:09.759
<v Speaker 2>pile of clothes it used to. Close guys it's took

0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:12.879
<v Speaker 2>off coming in who slept in them maybe a week

0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:15.759
<v Speaker 2>inside one of these jails on the street and they

0:37:15.840 --> 0:37:18.879
<v Speaker 2>make you pick out some clothes out of this power

0:37:18.920 --> 0:37:19.440
<v Speaker 2>in order to.

0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:19.840
<v Speaker 1>Walk out of.

0:37:19.880 --> 0:37:20.920
<v Speaker 4>Here and they haven't been.

0:37:21.080 --> 0:37:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Washed haven't been.

0:37:22.280 --> 0:37:25.720
<v Speaker 2>Washed oh, MAN i picked the biggest PIECE i could

0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:27.560
<v Speaker 2>so it wouldn't really be attached to. Me SO i

0:37:27.600 --> 0:37:30.480
<v Speaker 2>picked out a jigging, suit a black jigon suit with

0:37:30.520 --> 0:37:34.080
<v Speaker 2>a hood because the guard says raining outside real. Bad

0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:37.080
<v Speaker 2>SO i picked out it had a hood on. It

0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:40.920
<v Speaker 2>the suit LIKE i would extra. Large this suit had

0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:42.080
<v Speaker 2>to be a three x of four.

0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:43.080
<v Speaker 4>X it was so.

0:37:43.200 --> 0:37:45.640
<v Speaker 1>Big the sleeves was hanging and it stinks so.

0:37:45.800 --> 0:37:49.960
<v Speaker 2>BAD i mean reek of just, urine and you, know

0:37:50.120 --> 0:37:53.200
<v Speaker 2>BUT i had no choice IF i wanted to stay

0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:56.360
<v Speaker 2>another day in the county, jail another two days in

0:37:56.360 --> 0:37:58.799
<v Speaker 2>the county, jail because you get lost in that system so.

0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:02.279
<v Speaker 2>Easily SO i, said, No i'm gonna grab. Something SO

0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:03.920
<v Speaker 2>i grabbed that and the jigging.

0:38:03.680 --> 0:38:06.720
<v Speaker 4>Pants and it held your nose, basically.

0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:08.680
<v Speaker 1>Yes and just got used to. It you, KNOW i

0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:09.319
<v Speaker 1>just lived in.

0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:13.320
<v Speaker 5>Filth and the issue was, that because it took hours

0:38:13.400 --> 0:38:17.080
<v Speaker 5>and hours for this process to, happen Mister, howard COULDN'T

0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:20.400
<v Speaker 5>i like calling him Mister? Howard a. Legendary, yeah me,

0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:23.560
<v Speaker 5>too So i'm picking up after. You so he wasn't

0:38:23.600 --> 0:38:26.520
<v Speaker 5>able to, stay, right he had another obligation of something

0:38:26.520 --> 0:38:26.840
<v Speaker 5>he had to.

0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:30.279
<v Speaker 2>Go i'm sure your, Right so he went home to

0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:32.560
<v Speaker 2>take care of his. Wife but then we never know

0:38:33.440 --> 0:38:36.680
<v Speaker 2>how long you be. There he's not coming out in thirty,

0:38:36.719 --> 0:38:40.279
<v Speaker 2>minutes twenty, minutes you, know it's a. Process so, NO

0:38:40.400 --> 0:38:41.920
<v Speaker 2>i didn't want to make him, stay so he. Went

0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.759
<v Speaker 2>he went, home and at this, point nobody knew that

0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:46.840
<v Speaker 2>this was going to happen this, day so my family

0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:50.680
<v Speaker 2>wasn't even, there SO i just ended up just coming.

0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:54.120
<v Speaker 2>Out they FINALLY i put the clothes, on they put me.

0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:57.239
<v Speaker 2>Out they kept my forty three dollars and some eye.

0:38:57.320 --> 0:38:59.200
<v Speaker 4>Change, well your forty three dollars wasn't even.

0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:01.040
<v Speaker 5>There it was in a different, right so you had

0:39:01.040 --> 0:39:04.479
<v Speaker 5>no ability to access, that and they send you. Out

0:39:04.640 --> 0:39:07.480
<v Speaker 5>what the date of the release Was? May, right it

0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:08.640
<v Speaker 5>Was may, ninth.

0:39:08.520 --> 0:39:09.239
<v Speaker 4>But may is not.

0:39:09.360 --> 0:39:12.000
<v Speaker 5>Exactly it's not warm at night In may In. Chicago,

0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:14.080
<v Speaker 5>No so it's cold and, rainy.

0:39:13.840 --> 0:39:16.439
<v Speaker 4>Rainy, yeah and it's, Dark, yeah it's.

0:39:16.520 --> 0:39:19.279
<v Speaker 2>Dark AND i stood in the rain man for about three,

0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:21.400
<v Speaker 2>hours just wondering trying to figure it.

0:39:21.440 --> 0:39:24.359
<v Speaker 1>OUT i had no money to get. HOME i had,

0:39:24.400 --> 0:39:25.799
<v Speaker 1>nothing absolutely.

0:39:25.840 --> 0:39:29.200
<v Speaker 2>Nothing SO i was just standing, there soaking with freaking

0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:33.440
<v Speaker 2>of Old i've never experienced in my life until somebody

0:39:33.480 --> 0:39:36.759
<v Speaker 2>pulled up on me and, SAID i got one of my.

0:39:36.840 --> 0:39:39.719
<v Speaker 2>Buddies you, know he didn't even. Know he, Says so

0:39:39.960 --> 0:39:42.360
<v Speaker 2>what you're doing out? HERE i just broke. Out he,

0:39:42.400 --> 0:39:45.400
<v Speaker 2>said so you need a, ride so you, know guys

0:39:45.560 --> 0:39:47.360
<v Speaker 2>quick to help you if you committed a, CROWN i.

0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:49.840
<v Speaker 7>Guess and this isn't just any street.

0:39:49.880 --> 0:39:53.760
<v Speaker 6>Corner it's twenty six in Cow so that is the

0:39:53.840 --> 0:39:57.080
<v Speaker 6>hub of The chicago criminal court. System it's the busiest

0:39:57.080 --> 0:39:59.520
<v Speaker 6>court system in the. World it's not in a great.

0:39:59.520 --> 0:40:02.720
<v Speaker 6>Neighborhood during the, day everyone's, saying be, careful be, careful

0:40:02.719 --> 0:40:04.640
<v Speaker 6>be careful when you go out. There he has not

0:40:04.760 --> 0:40:07.879
<v Speaker 6>been in society for over a, decade and he has

0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:11.680
<v Speaker 6>walked out onto this dangerous street corner without a bus,

0:40:11.719 --> 0:40:14.920
<v Speaker 6>cart without AN, id without a, phone without frankly much

0:40:14.920 --> 0:40:16.759
<v Speaker 6>of an, identity and just there you.

0:40:16.800 --> 0:40:18.719
<v Speaker 2>Go will people get killed right in front of the.

0:40:18.760 --> 0:40:20.919
<v Speaker 2>Building he just had an incident a couple of weeks.

0:40:20.960 --> 0:40:23.760
<v Speaker 2>Ago a guy got killed right with all this police,

0:40:23.800 --> 0:40:25.680
<v Speaker 2>activity he gets murdered right on the.

0:40:25.719 --> 0:40:29.560
<v Speaker 5>Street it's so interesting and it's uplifting because at the

0:40:29.640 --> 0:40:32.520
<v Speaker 5>end of the, day randomly in the city the size Of,

0:40:32.600 --> 0:40:35.399
<v Speaker 5>chicago your friend happened to be driving, By, like.

0:40:35.960 --> 0:40:36.959
<v Speaker 4>Yo what are you doing?

0:40:37.000 --> 0:40:40.120
<v Speaker 5>Here and, LIKE i, mean that's another little, miracle, Right

0:40:40.200 --> 0:40:41.640
<v Speaker 5>but Well i'm, BLESSED i know.

0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:43.080
<v Speaker 4>That, yeah, well that's.

0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:45.319
<v Speaker 5>An amazing thing for somebody to say that's been through

0:40:45.600 --> 0:40:50.040
<v Speaker 5>ten years inside the most horrific prison, system nightmare for

0:40:50.160 --> 0:40:50.800
<v Speaker 5>something he didn't.

0:40:50.840 --> 0:40:52.279
<v Speaker 4>Do but it's a great way to look at.

0:40:52.280 --> 0:40:54.720
<v Speaker 5>It and the fact is it's almost like the energy

0:40:54.760 --> 0:40:57.680
<v Speaker 5>feel that Mister howard, created and then this guy was

0:40:57.840 --> 0:40:59.680
<v Speaker 5>sort of an extension of, that like your other guardian.

0:40:59.719 --> 0:41:03.320
<v Speaker 4>Angel but there's no planet.

0:41:03.000 --> 0:41:07.239
<v Speaker 5>On which we should allow somebody to emerge from this

0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:11.600
<v Speaker 5>what sort of an extra fuck you right, here get

0:41:11.640 --> 0:41:14.640
<v Speaker 5>out of, here smelling like you just rolled around in

0:41:14.719 --> 0:41:17.879
<v Speaker 5>the you, know in the, gutter and then good luck

0:41:18.160 --> 0:41:19.719
<v Speaker 5>not even like.

0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:20.319
<v Speaker 1>Not even good.

0:41:20.400 --> 0:41:22.440
<v Speaker 4>Luck, NO i, mean get the hell out right.

0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:24.160
<v Speaker 5>And if you get, killed you because we didn't care

0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:25.919
<v Speaker 5>about you before and we don't care about you. Now

0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:29.280
<v Speaker 5>i'm not saying they necessarily have to have a chariot

0:41:29.480 --> 0:41:32.840
<v Speaker 5>waiting for you with white horses or a golden thing or.

0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:35.960
<v Speaker 4>Whatever but a bus ticket would have been. FINE a bus,

0:41:36.000 --> 0:41:38.680
<v Speaker 4>TICKET a phone, call, yeah that would have been.

0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:40.680
<v Speaker 1>Fun about a phone, call can somebody come give? It

0:41:40.880 --> 0:41:43.600
<v Speaker 1>they don't give you any of, That they're not. RESPONSIBLE

0:41:44.480 --> 0:41:46.640
<v Speaker 1>a phone call would have been. Good phone call would

0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:46.799
<v Speaker 1>have been.

0:41:46.920 --> 0:42:03.359
<v Speaker 5>Great, LAURA i want to turn to you because you

0:42:03.600 --> 0:42:07.040
<v Speaker 5>have a new book out WHICH i read THAT i.

0:42:07.120 --> 0:42:11.160
<v Speaker 5>Love it's Called anatomy Of, Innocence thank. You. Yeah and

0:42:11.480 --> 0:42:16.600
<v Speaker 5>in the book you paired, exoneries Including, antoine with legendary

0:42:16.640 --> 0:42:20.280
<v Speaker 5>authors in order to tell their story in a way

0:42:20.320 --> 0:42:25.799
<v Speaker 5>that is particularly poignant and also really sort of. Succinct

0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:28.040
<v Speaker 5>so can you talk about that process BECAUSE i love

0:42:28.120 --> 0:42:29.560
<v Speaker 5>the book AND i hope everybody will check it. Out

0:42:29.560 --> 0:42:31.040
<v Speaker 5>anatomy Of, Innocence thank.

0:42:31.080 --> 0:42:31.160
<v Speaker 4>You.

0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:35.080
<v Speaker 6>Yeah it's Called anatomy Of, Innocence and we basically are trying,

0:42:35.120 --> 0:42:38.520
<v Speaker 6>to in, fact do what you're. Doing we're trying to

0:42:38.560 --> 0:42:42.200
<v Speaker 6>get inside the, mind inside the, soul behind the eyes

0:42:42.480 --> 0:42:46.680
<v Speaker 6>of someone who went through a wrongful. Conviction so we've

0:42:46.680 --> 0:42:50.880
<v Speaker 6>broken it down into. Stages the knock on the, door you,

0:42:50.920 --> 0:42:53.439
<v Speaker 6>know the first time you When antoine heard his name

0:42:53.480 --> 0:42:54.160
<v Speaker 6>was getting batted.

0:42:54.200 --> 0:42:56.439
<v Speaker 7>Around what do you do when you hear?

0:42:57.000 --> 0:43:01.319
<v Speaker 6>Guilty because every exonery thinks they'll here not guilty because

0:43:01.320 --> 0:43:04.560
<v Speaker 6>they can tell that the criminal justice system is not

0:43:04.920 --> 0:43:07.360
<v Speaker 6>working well because they're in it and they're. Innocent but

0:43:07.440 --> 0:43:09.719
<v Speaker 6>they all think they're hill not, guilty all of, them

0:43:10.200 --> 0:43:13.320
<v Speaker 6>and they hear. Guilty there's hearing all sorts of testimony

0:43:13.360 --> 0:43:16.880
<v Speaker 6>about yourself at, trial which isn't. True there's the walking

0:43:16.920 --> 0:43:20.000
<v Speaker 6>into prison for the first, time dealing with the crazies

0:43:20.000 --> 0:43:23.400
<v Speaker 6>that are in, there finding someone to get you, out

0:43:24.200 --> 0:43:26.960
<v Speaker 6>and then the fact that freedom is just the. Beginning

0:43:27.400 --> 0:43:29.759
<v Speaker 6>we wanted to show that sometimes they happen like, This

0:43:29.800 --> 0:43:31.840
<v Speaker 6>sometimes they happen like you see ON tv where you

0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:36.120
<v Speaker 6>see people outside holding up the, arms and other, times

0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:38.719
<v Speaker 6>And antoine's is not the only Case i've heard of

0:43:38.920 --> 0:43:40.759
<v Speaker 6>about being released onto the street with.

0:43:40.800 --> 0:43:42.920
<v Speaker 7>NOTHING i, mean it's more frequent than.

0:43:42.960 --> 0:43:45.439
<v Speaker 4>Not it's just another bizarre aspect of the whole.

0:43:45.440 --> 0:43:48.000
<v Speaker 6>Thing so it is a bizarre, aspect and, frankly so

0:43:48.080 --> 0:43:50.120
<v Speaker 6>many of these things are so.

0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:52.560
<v Speaker 7>Fortuitous and he said he feels.

0:43:52.600 --> 0:43:55.480
<v Speaker 6>Lucky antoine, SAID i feel, lucky AND i think you,

0:43:55.480 --> 0:43:58.560
<v Speaker 6>Know i've heard people say that exoneries are the luckiest unlucky,

0:43:58.560 --> 0:44:01.120
<v Speaker 6>People AND i mean it was. Strange even WHEN i Met,

0:44:01.120 --> 0:44:04.799
<v Speaker 6>ANTOINE i had taken another. Xonery antoine has been working

0:44:04.800 --> 0:44:07.239
<v Speaker 6>in re entry since he got, out AND i took

0:44:07.280 --> 0:44:12.840
<v Speaker 6>another exonery to get services he ran Into. Antoine antoine

0:44:12.880 --> 0:44:15.600
<v Speaker 6>did not know he was an ex. Hoonery Howard joseph had,

0:44:15.640 --> 0:44:18.359
<v Speaker 6>died and he also didn't know That illinois was one

0:44:18.400 --> 0:44:21.360
<v Speaker 6>of the states that had, compensation and he had about

0:44:21.360 --> 0:44:23.640
<v Speaker 6>twenty eight days from the TIME i met him to

0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:26.520
<v Speaker 6>file or forever it's gone.

0:44:26.480 --> 0:44:29.120
<v Speaker 5>Forever old your. Piece so WHAT i took from the

0:44:29.120 --> 0:44:32.560
<v Speaker 5>book also each of those. Stories it's so. Fascinating, Again

0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:35.560
<v Speaker 5>i'm getting the. Chills you can't make these stories. Up

0:44:35.760 --> 0:44:37.399
<v Speaker 5>and when you read, them and when you read them

0:44:37.440 --> 0:44:42.000
<v Speaker 5>written so beautifully by such important literary figures as you

0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:45.920
<v Speaker 5>have put together In Anatomy, ventics it's really it's a

0:44:45.920 --> 0:44:49.320
<v Speaker 5>great experience reading the. Book so tell us About life After,

0:44:49.400 --> 0:44:52.160
<v Speaker 5>innocence because that's a program you run At loyola.

0:44:51.920 --> 0:44:55.320
<v Speaker 6>Right life After innocence is a clinic At Loyola Chicago

0:44:55.360 --> 0:44:57.800
<v Speaker 6>school Of, law and we in fact have The Howard

0:44:57.880 --> 0:45:02.000
<v Speaker 6>joseph award that we give every year in Mister howard's

0:45:02.000 --> 0:45:06.720
<v Speaker 6>honor for people who help the innocent without basically seeking

0:45:06.760 --> 0:45:10.600
<v Speaker 6>compensation or. Recognition so my law students AND i since

0:45:10.600 --> 0:45:13.319
<v Speaker 6>two thousand and nine have been representing X houneries to

0:45:13.360 --> 0:45:17.600
<v Speaker 6>help them start. Over, previously we did a lot. More

0:45:17.719 --> 0:45:19.880
<v Speaker 6>when we started in two thousand and, nine one or

0:45:19.880 --> 0:45:21.719
<v Speaker 6>two people got out a year in THE.

0:45:21.800 --> 0:45:22.880
<v Speaker 7>Us now it's three a.

0:45:22.920 --> 0:45:26.320
<v Speaker 6>Week so now we're focusing primarily on criminal records, relief

0:45:26.440 --> 0:45:29.040
<v Speaker 6>getting their records, cleared because what most people don't know

0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:31.600
<v Speaker 6>is that When antoine walked, out even though his case

0:45:31.600 --> 0:45:34.080
<v Speaker 6>had been, overturned when he got pulled over by the,

0:45:34.080 --> 0:45:37.319
<v Speaker 6>cops it's still a convicted. Murderer so till someone goes

0:45:37.360 --> 0:45:40.279
<v Speaker 6>in and gets your record cleaned, up it's still on your.

0:45:40.320 --> 0:45:42.880
<v Speaker 6>Record doesn't matter even IF dna showed who it really,

0:45:42.960 --> 0:45:45.840
<v Speaker 6>was still on your. Record so we get that cleaned,

0:45:45.920 --> 0:45:48.640
<v Speaker 6>up and then we push for, legislation which we've been

0:45:48.680 --> 0:45:52.160
<v Speaker 6>successful on so slowly we're adding to the services that

0:45:52.400 --> 0:45:53.239
<v Speaker 6>X houneries get In.

0:45:53.280 --> 0:45:54.760
<v Speaker 4>Illinois that's incredible.

0:45:54.840 --> 0:45:58.240
<v Speaker 5>Work AND i also want to just touch on Briefly Joseph,

0:45:58.280 --> 0:46:00.680
<v Speaker 5>howard who now has the award made that you can't

0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:02.440
<v Speaker 5>see it on the, radio AS i always, say But

0:46:02.480 --> 0:46:05.400
<v Speaker 5>i've been Watching antoine's body, language and every time this

0:46:05.480 --> 0:46:08.680
<v Speaker 5>man's name comes, up he sort of sits up straight

0:46:08.760 --> 0:46:13.279
<v Speaker 5>and starts smiling. Uncontrollably and for those of you.

0:46:13.440 --> 0:46:16.239
<v Speaker 2>Trying to start from, Crying i'm telling you, something, man

0:46:16.600 --> 0:46:19.919
<v Speaker 2>is this Is it always seemed to, Happen but this

0:46:20.000 --> 0:46:23.239
<v Speaker 2>guy has really touched my soul in the way that

0:46:23.320 --> 0:46:27.080
<v Speaker 2>he operated and what he did for, me BECAUSE i

0:46:27.160 --> 0:46:31.480
<v Speaker 2>only pay it forward and because of. Him because of, him,

0:46:31.480 --> 0:46:33.920
<v Speaker 2>MAN i, mean it means a. Lot so, YEAH i

0:46:34.000 --> 0:46:35.480
<v Speaker 2>carry him very, high you.

0:46:35.520 --> 0:46:37.840
<v Speaker 5>Know AND i want to give a shout out to

0:46:38.080 --> 0:46:40.680
<v Speaker 5>all THE i know there's a lot of attorneys that

0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:43.920
<v Speaker 5>listen to the show who do incredible amounts of pro

0:46:44.000 --> 0:46:48.360
<v Speaker 5>bono work on behalf of people like, yourself and to

0:46:48.520 --> 0:46:50.680
<v Speaker 5>all of, THEM i just want to say that you

0:46:50.800 --> 0:46:54.200
<v Speaker 5>have all of our respect and appreciation because we couldn't

0:46:54.239 --> 0:46:58.000
<v Speaker 5>do it without. You and if anybody is considering getting

0:46:58.040 --> 0:47:01.400
<v Speaker 5>into the, WORK i encourage you to to meet somebody

0:47:01.440 --> 0:47:03.960
<v Speaker 5>Like antoine and see what it's meant in a very

0:47:04.320 --> 0:47:08.560
<v Speaker 5>personal and magical. Way so we will continue to Honor

0:47:08.840 --> 0:47:12.560
<v Speaker 5>Joseph howard by continuing to support the. Work, now as

0:47:12.719 --> 0:47:16.560
<v Speaker 5>is a tradition on wrong for, conviction we always like

0:47:16.640 --> 0:47:21.640
<v Speaker 5>to give you the exgnery the last, word so we'll

0:47:21.640 --> 0:47:22.279
<v Speaker 5>turn it over to.

0:47:22.320 --> 0:47:23.840
<v Speaker 1>You, Okay, well thank you so.

0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:26.799
<v Speaker 2>MUCH i do appreciate being, here getting the opportunity to

0:47:26.960 --> 0:47:31.160
<v Speaker 2>share and to enlighten people of what really goes on

0:47:31.280 --> 0:47:34.920
<v Speaker 2>outside of just the, media and to thank people Like

0:47:35.000 --> 0:47:39.680
<v Speaker 2>laura and yourself for having this. Platform but most of,

0:47:39.680 --> 0:47:42.279
<v Speaker 2>ALL i like to say WHERE i am today it

0:47:42.360 --> 0:47:43.520
<v Speaker 2>is because of somebody's.

0:47:43.600 --> 0:47:45.279
<v Speaker 1>Help the things THAT i do.

0:47:45.320 --> 0:47:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Today i'm a court advocate for juvenile youth In chicago

0:47:50.800 --> 0:47:52.600
<v Speaker 2>when they go to court to make sure they're not

0:47:52.719 --> 0:47:55.799
<v Speaker 2>wronged LIKE i. Was so when they get, ARRESTED i

0:47:55.840 --> 0:47:58.120
<v Speaker 2>get a phone call and we appear in.

0:47:58.239 --> 0:47:59.720
<v Speaker 1>COURT i support.

0:47:59.760 --> 0:48:02.480
<v Speaker 2>Them also with the Family, AGAIN i work in one

0:48:02.520 --> 0:48:05.640
<v Speaker 2>of the most harshest communities in the city Of chicago

0:48:05.760 --> 0:48:10.120
<v Speaker 2>and throughout the state AT Bbf Family, services Where i'm

0:48:10.160 --> 0:48:12.920
<v Speaker 2>able to give back to the community with Mister joe

0:48:13.040 --> 0:48:16.800
<v Speaker 2>gave to me Through loyola and working With laura and

0:48:17.120 --> 0:48:19.600
<v Speaker 2>the things she did for me helped me. Create, also

0:48:19.880 --> 0:48:22.879
<v Speaker 2>me And Jared adams helped me create life after.

0:48:23.120 --> 0:48:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Justice even after.

0:48:24.200 --> 0:48:26.239
<v Speaker 2>Her, work we continue to do it so we are

0:48:26.280 --> 0:48:29.479
<v Speaker 2>springboard off of what she. Did so what she has

0:48:29.640 --> 0:48:32.680
<v Speaker 2>done for me is also paying it forward again and

0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:35.920
<v Speaker 2>making things happen where you can help somebody. Else and

0:48:35.960 --> 0:48:38.800
<v Speaker 2>that's what we don't do enough of in this, country

0:48:39.120 --> 0:48:42.280
<v Speaker 2>in this. World were more worried about other activities around

0:48:42.280 --> 0:48:44.399
<v Speaker 2>the world when we really flat on our back right.

0:48:44.440 --> 0:48:48.919
<v Speaker 2>Here SO i just really appreciate the opportunity to say

0:48:48.960 --> 0:48:51.239
<v Speaker 2>thank you and keep it going and keep calling me

0:48:51.280 --> 0:48:54.799
<v Speaker 2>BECAUSE i don't mind. COMING i believe in the, work

0:48:54.880 --> 0:48:57.080
<v Speaker 2>and this is WHAT i, love you, KNOW i love

0:48:57.160 --> 0:49:00.000
<v Speaker 2>giving it. Back like you, said you, Know i'm. Inspired

0:49:00.160 --> 0:49:02.719
<v Speaker 2>you KNOW i had a great. Mom i'm inspired by my,

0:49:02.880 --> 0:49:05.839
<v Speaker 2>sister who you, KNOW i always say she talked too,

0:49:05.880 --> 0:49:08.920
<v Speaker 2>much but then that particular time she talked at the

0:49:09.000 --> 0:49:11.919
<v Speaker 2>right time in order to meet Mister joe's, son WHO

0:49:11.960 --> 0:49:14.600
<v Speaker 2>i think not enough but as much AS i possibly.

0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Can i'm very, grateful and LIKE i, Said i'm.

0:49:16.960 --> 0:49:19.200
<v Speaker 2>Blessed i'm blessed to be in this in this particular

0:49:19.719 --> 0:49:21.200
<v Speaker 2>position Where i'm able to help other.

0:49:21.200 --> 0:49:23.920
<v Speaker 1>People that's HOW i help. MYSELF i need to be an.

0:49:23.960 --> 0:49:27.439
<v Speaker 2>Angel i'm trying to learn, it you, know, so Mister,

0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Joe i'm trying to learn how to be that example

0:49:29.960 --> 0:49:31.239
<v Speaker 2>he would be proud of me to.

0:49:31.280 --> 0:49:35.520
<v Speaker 5>Be, WELL i THINK i can say that he would,

0:49:35.520 --> 0:49:38.680
<v Speaker 5>be And i'm sure he. Is and you are a

0:49:38.719 --> 0:49:43.840
<v Speaker 5>great example of everything that's good and right about this.

0:49:44.080 --> 0:49:47.799
<v Speaker 5>Cause and people like you are the strongest forces we

0:49:47.960 --> 0:49:51.879
<v Speaker 5>have because the stories are just so incredible and so,

0:49:51.960 --> 0:49:55.840
<v Speaker 5>powerful and SO i appreciate you being here and sharing.

0:49:55.880 --> 0:50:04.640
<v Speaker 5>THAT i KNEW i was going to learn. Something don't

0:50:04.680 --> 0:50:07.440
<v Speaker 5>forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you get your,

0:50:07.440 --> 0:50:11.279
<v Speaker 5>podcasts it really. Helps And i'm a proud donor to

0:50:11.320 --> 0:50:13.759
<v Speaker 5>The Innocence project AND i really hope you'll join me

0:50:13.880 --> 0:50:17.440
<v Speaker 5>in supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent

0:50:17.560 --> 0:50:21.399
<v Speaker 5>future wrongful. Convictions go To innocenceproject dot org to learn

0:50:21.440 --> 0:50:24.120
<v Speaker 5>how to donate and get. Involved i'd like to thank

0:50:24.160 --> 0:50:27.600
<v Speaker 5>our production, Team Connor hall And Kevin. Wartis the music

0:50:27.640 --> 0:50:30.719
<v Speaker 5>in the show is by three TIME oscar nominated Composer Jay.

0:50:30.800 --> 0:50:33.840
<v Speaker 5>Ralph be sure to follow us On instagram At Wrongful

0:50:33.840 --> 0:50:38.440
<v Speaker 5>conviction and On facebook At Wrongful Conviction. Podcast Wrongful conviction

0:50:38.520 --> 0:50:41.120
<v Speaker 5>With Jason flahm is a production Of lava For good

0:50:41.120 --> 0:50:50.359
<v Speaker 5>podcasts and association With Signal Company number one