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Speaker 1: I think we have the best legal system.

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Speaker 2: It's just the people that implement they get lost along

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Speaker 2: the way and forget what their job really is.

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Speaker 3: He just kept on trying to remind me that who

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Speaker 3: was in authority, who was in control, and how easy

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Speaker 3: it was for my body to be found in any

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Speaker 3: alley of New York City.

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Speaker 4: It's a tough prison when you have the guards going

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Speaker 4: against you because they are the biggest gang in the prison.

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Speaker 4: They do that.

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Speaker 2: They'll give a guy a life sentence and go home

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Speaker 2: in eat spaghetti like it was nothing.

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Speaker 3: And anybody that said, well, why would you confess to

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Speaker 3: something that you didn't do? My question to them will

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Speaker 3: be why wouldn't you confess when somebody's threatening to kill

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Speaker 3: your life?

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Speaker 1: You judge?

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Speaker 2: He said, how you feel? I said, I'm okay. He said, well,

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Speaker 2: the days you're lucky day you're going home.

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Speaker 4: This is wrongful Conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with

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Speaker 4: Jason Flamm.

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Speaker 5: Today we have two guests and I feel really excited

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Speaker 5: about today's episode.

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Speaker 4: We have Antoine Day. Antoine Day sixty years for murder,

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Speaker 4: twenty five years for attempted murder.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety two, Antoine Day was found guilty of

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Speaker 1: the murder of one man and attempted murder of another

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Speaker 1: outside a liquor store on Chicago's West Side.

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Speaker 5: Convicted in nineteen ninety two, dexonerated in two thousand and two.

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Speaker 4: Antoine Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Well, thanks for having.

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Speaker 5: Me, And with Antoine, he brought a luminary in the

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Speaker 5: criminal justice reform movement. Laura Caldwell and Laura is an

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Speaker 5: accomplished author of many many books novels, also professor at

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Speaker 5: Loyola in Chicago and the found of the Life After Innocence.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Lai at Loyola University Chicago School of Law.

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Speaker 4: Got it. But let's go back to the beginning. You

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Speaker 4: came from Illinois.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, West side of Chicago.

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Speaker 5: And you were a musician, and you had some stuff

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Speaker 5: going on at the time that everything went haywire.

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Speaker 4: Right. It was a murder that happened at a craps game,

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Speaker 4: right right.

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Speaker 5: Two people shot Thomas Peters and James Coleman, and Peters

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Speaker 5: died and Coleman was wounded, and they're out looking for

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Speaker 5: the suspects.

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Speaker 4: How'd you get mixed up?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 2: I got mixed up because you know, I didn't come

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Speaker 2: from that real cush community.

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Speaker 1: You know, I come from.

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Speaker 2: A very hard heart community, you know, the West side

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Speaker 2: of Chicago. Even right now, it's the top murder has

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Speaker 2: the top murder rate in the.

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Speaker 4: State and one of the top of the country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah in the country. Yeah it is.

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Speaker 2: So I lived, as I live now in its same community,

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Speaker 2: and I also I work in the second largest murder

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Speaker 2: rate in the country in Lindale. So how it happened

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Speaker 2: was I was known in the community because I was

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Speaker 2: in the street. You know, I did some things in

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Speaker 2: the street. Today I wouldn't be so proud of. But

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Speaker 2: you know, a young kid, you know, you did some things,

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Speaker 2: and so you meet.

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Speaker 4: People, but not necessarily violent thing.

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Speaker 2: No, nothing violent, had nothing to do with violence. I

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Speaker 2: sold drugs, you know, I sold marijuana. I did what

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Speaker 2: most young guys my age do.

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Speaker 4: So okay, So you were I was known.

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Speaker 2: And then I was a musician. We played all the

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Speaker 2: community of fast concerts. We did a lot of things.

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Speaker 2: And I lived in the community, but in this particular

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Speaker 2: community I lived in. The guys that actually got killed

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Speaker 2: stayed only a block away from my home from where

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Speaker 2: I lived. He stayed the next block over, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't know them. They didn't know me, so when the

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Speaker 2: incident occurred, they said that it was a black vehicle,

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Speaker 2: so right away they tagged all the black vehicles in

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Speaker 2: the area. I had two black vehicles. I had a

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Speaker 2: station Wagon. I'm a car man, you know, I love cars.

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Speaker 2: So I had a station Wagon that was fixed up,

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Speaker 2: and I had a Chevy Blazer that was also fixed up.

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Speaker 2: So these two cars stay parked in front of my home.

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Speaker 2: So when the police ran an icing plate, they had

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Speaker 2: my name. We had played in New Orleans. It was

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Speaker 2: raining really hard, so when we came back that morning,

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Speaker 2: it was a car to my door. So I took

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Speaker 2: the car to the investigator's car, Detective Condony, I think

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Speaker 2: it was.

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Speaker 4: I called him.

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Speaker 1: I said, you left a car to my door for what.

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Speaker 2: He said, well, I want you to come in and

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Speaker 2: talk to me about some things that took place over

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Speaker 2: the weekend. I said, well, I wasn't here for the weekend.

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Speaker 2: So he had the conversation. He said, well, just come in.

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Speaker 2: He asked me what did I look like? I said,

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Speaker 2: what you mean, when do I look like? He said, so,

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Speaker 2: what are your features? Are you a big guy? Your

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Speaker 2: little guy? And I'm like, why would you ask me that,

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Speaker 2: shouldn't you be telling me you're looking for me? I'm

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Speaker 2: not looking for you. Then he said, well, the story

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Speaker 2: was that you were, you know, about six' to two like,

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Speaker 2: Complex AND i, said, no that's not. Me he, said

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Speaker 2: so you shouldn't have no.

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Speaker 4: Problem how tall are?

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Speaker 1: YOU i gotta be about five, ten probably used to be.

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Speaker 1: Taller you were number.

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Speaker 5: Six, too and like, complected you, KNOW i like. Complected and,

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Speaker 5: yeah so you didn't fit the.

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Speaker 2: Description NO i, didn't SO i thought maybe they just

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Speaker 2: got my, name so let me go. In so WHEN

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Speaker 2: i went, in he started asking me about my, car, said,

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Speaker 2: WELL i have two. Vehicles is? Black so he went

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Speaker 2: over the thing with the. Car he asked, me had

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Speaker 2: anybody been driving the?

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Speaker 3: Car?

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Speaker 2: Sat, no my cars haven't haven't, moved been sitting all.

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Speaker 2: Week so you begin to ask me about DID i

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Speaker 2: know these particular.

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Speaker 1: People i'm saying, NO i don't. Know don't. FORGET i

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Speaker 1: took a lawyer in with.

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Speaker 5: ME i, mean let's addaly. This you were a thousand

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Speaker 5: miles away right.

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Speaker 4: When the thing.

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Speaker 5: Happened, right you didn't fit the, description, right but still

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Speaker 5: growing up in that type of, environment you know that

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Speaker 5: the police are capable of pulling some thirty tricks, right And, chicago,

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Speaker 5: unfortunately is as infamous as, anywhere with all the scandals

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Speaker 5: that have happened, there very well. Known so you hired

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Speaker 5: to learn, though because you're, thinking you, KNOW i better

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Speaker 5: BE i better just take every. Exactly so you hired

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Speaker 5: this lawyer and then tell us the.

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Speaker 2: Story i've never been one to trust the police, anyway

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Speaker 2: because they've done a lot of things in the, past

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Speaker 2: SO i KNEW i should maybe take this lawyer in with.

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Speaker 1: Me SO i called.

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Speaker 2: Him he, said, SURE i, come and you, KNOW i, said,

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Speaker 2: MAN i just to make sure this go. Right you,

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Speaker 2: KNOW i KNOW i haven't done, anything SO i want

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Speaker 2: to make sure this goes. Right he, said, okay he comes.

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Speaker 2: In he came to my mom's, house met me at

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Speaker 2: my mother's, house and we went to the police. Stay

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Speaker 2: how far is that maybe two. Miles So i'm sitting

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Speaker 2: in the interview, room, well not an interview. Room it's

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Speaker 2: just a, room, big, big open, space maybe sixty seventy

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Speaker 2: chairs in this.

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Speaker 1: Room i'm sitting in a.

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Speaker 2: Chair it's another guy sitting in a, chair you, know

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Speaker 2: maybe ten feet away from. Me you, know we're just

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Speaker 2: Talking we've been sitting there so, Long so now we

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Speaker 2: begin to. Talk i'm, like, MAN i don't know why

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Speaker 2: they got me, Here he said me.

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Speaker 1: Either. Man they brought me in here and just made,

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Speaker 1: me you, know sit.

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Speaker 2: Here i've been sitting there for the longest because he

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Speaker 2: was actually here BEFORE i here and were just sitting there.

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Speaker 2: Talking then the detective came. In he, said, look are

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Speaker 2: you willing to stand a? LINEUP i sent a? Lineup

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Speaker 2: so Now i'm looking for my. Lawyer, logical where's my?

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Speaker 2: Lawyer where was it for this?

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Speaker 1: Lineup? Right he was.

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Speaker 2: Gone he had left a message that he was going

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Speaker 2: to his daughter's birthday.

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Speaker 1: Party so he left me in the police.

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Speaker 4: Station and you paid him five thousand.

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Speaker 1: Dollars he got five grand out of me.

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Speaker 5: To drive you two. Miles that's like twenty five hundred.

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Speaker 5: Miles that's not not it's not bad. Man that's, incredible you.

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Speaker 5: Know SO i Just i'm, SORRY i. Can't that's. CRAZY

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Speaker 5: i got to take him.

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Speaker 2: Pause how he got five thousand in the. Beginning let

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Speaker 2: me just MAKE i gave him twenty five. Hundred that

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Speaker 2: was going to the police, station, right and if anything

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Speaker 2: else had, occurred THEN i would have gave him the

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Speaker 2: rest of, it so and it. DID i guess that

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Speaker 2: was the part of the. Setup so now he gets

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Speaker 2: all his money if he leave and THEN i get.

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Speaker 2: Arrested SO i felt like it was from the beginning

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Speaker 2: it was a. Setup so he had an incentive to

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Speaker 2: get you.

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Speaker 4: ARRESTED i. Believe, so oh my, God, well, OKAY i

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Speaker 4: mean that's because.

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Speaker 1: What else could it.

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Speaker 2: Be he, Left he didn't even start his job to finish.

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Speaker 2: It so the start was to be there for questioning if,

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Speaker 2: anything the.

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Speaker 5: Whole, conversation he wasn't, There so you're on your own,

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Speaker 5: right and then what. HAPPENS i want to Bring laura

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Speaker 5: into this conversation because she's so familiar with all this

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Speaker 5: kind of nons she know better than. THAT i Think

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Speaker 5: antoine's case is a roadmap how not to do.

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Speaker 6: Things it's also a roadmap in a sense of what

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Speaker 6: happens when you're. Innocent when you're, innocent you're always happy

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Speaker 6: to talk to someone because, frankly you know you didn't do.

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Speaker 6: It but how smart to get a lawyer at least

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Speaker 6: before you do talk to someone on something you don't.

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Speaker 6: Know so that was such a smart. Move we usually

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Speaker 6: hear people go into the station all the. Time not

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Speaker 6: everybody's smart enough to bring a. Lawyer unfortunately for, him

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Speaker 6: the lawyer was very negligent and left and didn't come.

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Speaker 1: Back they then.

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Speaker 6: Put him in a lineup and the two gentlemen he

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Speaker 6: was sitting with the cops actually we now, know said

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Speaker 6: go ahead and pick that gentleman. Out later one of

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Speaker 6: them quickly recanted and so it is not that, guy

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Speaker 6: but it was too. Late they've been identified and Off antoine.

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Speaker 2: Was so you got to remember these two. Guys both

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Speaker 2: of these guys was heroin, addicts you. Know and the

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Speaker 2: one GUY i think Was coleman who, said he, said,

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Speaker 2: man they KNEW i was a dope thing when they arrested.

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Speaker 2: Me he, SAID i would say my mother Killed kennedy

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Speaker 2: if they had made me do.

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Speaker 1: It you.

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Speaker 2: Know he said that because this guy came to court

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Speaker 2: and he. Apologized coleman is the only one who. Apologized,

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Speaker 2: well both of them came to court and admitted why

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Speaker 2: they lied because the police had arrested them these same

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Speaker 2: two guys, before, see and they had a history with

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Speaker 2: these same.

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Speaker 1: Detectives so it kind of weigh, out you, know once

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Speaker 1: you start.

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Speaker 2: Your investigation and you really get to see how they're.

223
00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:59,760
Speaker 5: Connected there's a really important thing that happens or actually

224
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,079
Speaker 5: doesn't happen during the, trial, right which is that now

225
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,559
Speaker 5: that you've already been screwed over by the first, lawyer

226
00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:06,920
Speaker 5: now you get a second.

227
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:11,440
Speaker 4: Lawyer the second one really fucked you.

228
00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:12,960
Speaker 7: Over i'm also paid for.

229
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 1: HIM i like what you said that he really.

230
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:19,440
Speaker 5: Did your attorney neglected to do things that a third

231
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,720
Speaker 5: grader would have, done, right which, is he neglected to

232
00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 5: call the witnesses who would have placed you elsewhere at

233
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,720
Speaker 5: the time of the. Crime and he neglected to call the.

234
00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:31,880
Speaker 5: Victim there were two. Victims one of them was a.

235
00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:33,760
Speaker 5: Lie you couldn't call the dead, guy, right but the

236
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 5: living Guy, Coleman, right he wanted to, testify, Right.

237
00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,960
Speaker 4: And sometimes guys don't want to. Testify he wanted to.

238
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,000
Speaker 5: Testify so all this idiot that was representing, you AND

239
00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,000
Speaker 5: i say that in the nicest possible.

240
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:47,800
Speaker 4: Way don't be.

241
00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,000
Speaker 5: Nice all this guy would have had to do is

242
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,360
Speaker 5: say your, honor like IN, Tv i'd like to bring

243
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:59,719
Speaker 5: to the Stands James, coleman and Then, coleman who got

244
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,400
Speaker 5: shot would have said that you weren't the guy and

245
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,560
Speaker 5: then you would have gone. Home and let's talk about

246
00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,559
Speaker 5: that for a. Second so were you not able to

247
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,800
Speaker 5: say to your, attorney hey, man call the.

248
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:12,160
Speaker 4: CALL i.

249
00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,080
Speaker 2: DID i said, it AND i had people getting and

250
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,520
Speaker 2: gathering the witnesses. People that was actually that he goes

251
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,840
Speaker 2: to a crime scene so long after the incident and

252
00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,880
Speaker 2: couldn't find. Anybody he went into the liquor store asking

253
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,600
Speaker 2: questions about inside of a liquor. Store now keep in

254
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,480
Speaker 2: mind that they said that this was actually going to

255
00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,840
Speaker 2: be a stick up. Murder they said THAT i was

256
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,480
Speaker 2: robbing a dice game AND i saw these two guys

257
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,160
Speaker 2: WHO i had some issues, with and begin to.

258
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,000
Speaker 1: Shoot this is what they.

259
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,320
Speaker 2: Said my intention was to rob a dice, game a

260
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,440
Speaker 2: two dollars dice, game which was a.

261
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 4: JOKE a two dollar dice. Game, yeah and you had two.

262
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,640
Speaker 2: CARS i had two, cars buildings and a lot of other.

263
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,600
Speaker 1: Stuff so these people.

264
00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,040
Speaker 2: Say really didn't need for, hour, RIGHT i really didn't

265
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:04,240
Speaker 2: a two dollar dice.

266
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,680
Speaker 1: Game so he said that this was the reason for the.

267
00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:12,440
Speaker 2: Shooting so when they came back to me with the

268
00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,679
Speaker 2: explanation of WHY i supposed to shot these two, Guys

269
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,680
Speaker 2: James coleman had always, said you wasn't the, guy he,

270
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:20,640
Speaker 2: Said AND i told him.

271
00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:22,880
Speaker 1: That he, said but, MAN i was. Sick you.

272
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,360
Speaker 2: KNOW i had a conversation with, him and he said

273
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,600
Speaker 2: THAT i was. SICK i talked to this man on the,

274
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 2: phone you, know a whole lot of. Times and he

275
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,600
Speaker 2: even went to my mother's to my parents' house and

276
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,080
Speaker 2: told my mom THAT i lied on. Him for that,

277
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,760
Speaker 2: reason he, said AND i need to straighten it. Out

278
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:42,920
Speaker 2: he just couldn't get hisself, together and he said it

279
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,880
Speaker 2: also in, court say his life had really fell apart

280
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,680
Speaker 2: because he know he lied on. Me but then the other,

281
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,520
Speaker 2: guy the real, girly his intention was. Money his family

282
00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,559
Speaker 2: wanted me to pay. Them if you give us THIS x.

283
00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,800
Speaker 1: Amount of, dollars we'll walk. Away we won't even.

284
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,680
Speaker 5: Show up in court because was originally a witness against, you,

285
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:03,800
Speaker 5: Right and then he was ready to testify at the,

286
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:04,679
Speaker 5: trial and so did.

287
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:05,000
Speaker 1: Lied.

288
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:07,080
Speaker 4: RIGHT i just want to make that clear to the.

289
00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,800
Speaker 5: Audience so ultimately you had an, option WHICH i find

290
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,120
Speaker 5: is an interesting. Thing, Right so your co defendant chose

291
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,440
Speaker 5: to be tried by a jury and you chose to

292
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:17,000
Speaker 5: be tried by a.

293
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 2: Judge let's talk about, that because when we went into the.

294
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,360
Speaker 2: COURTROOM i kind of felt that this judge wasn't the

295
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:29,000
Speaker 2: JUDGE i. WANTED i didn't want a bench. TRIAL i

296
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,000
Speaker 2: never wanted a bench. Trial the attorney wanted a bench.

297
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,400
Speaker 2: TRIAL i wanted to pick, twelve but he denied me

298
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,559
Speaker 2: a jury. Trial he told me THAT i waited too

299
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,040
Speaker 2: late to pick a jury. Trial the judge tell you

300
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,400
Speaker 2: the judge. Did he, said we waited too late to

301
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,920
Speaker 2: pick a jury, trial AND i wanted.

302
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:47,679
Speaker 1: TWELVE i never trusted the.

303
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:49,120
Speaker 4: Judge or is that a?

304
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,920
Speaker 6: Thing you are supposed to demand trial by a jury

305
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,840
Speaker 6: when you file your answer when you. APPEAR i don't

306
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,800
Speaker 6: know if he failed to do. That if he did

307
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,480
Speaker 6: that alone is. Malpractice but what you do is you

308
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,640
Speaker 6: routinely ask for a jury and then if later you

309
00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:05,040
Speaker 6: want to switch to a bench you can.

310
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,680
Speaker 7: So either he didn't ask for it early on we

311
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:08,560
Speaker 7: never could seess that.

312
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,760
Speaker 6: Out or he thought the judge would be good for

313
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 6: them and then counseled him. Incorrectly but in any, event

314
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,160
Speaker 6: he counseled him against his wishes and against what would

315
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,640
Speaker 6: have been hopefully a much better outcome with twelve people

316
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:23,280
Speaker 6: and minds.

317
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,480
Speaker 2: YOU i walked into the police. Station they had to

318
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,880
Speaker 2: run this guy. Down the guy is inconcrated right now

319
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,520
Speaker 2: for the. Murder they had to run him. Down they found.

320
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,320
Speaker 4: Him which guy are you talking? About it my co, defendant, Right?

321
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:35,880
Speaker 4: Okay who they made my co.

322
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,720
Speaker 2: DEFENDANT i don't like claiming him BECAUSE i didn't even

323
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,440
Speaker 2: know this. Guy but they found him. Later he found

324
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,600
Speaker 2: him later on and arrested him and brought him. In

325
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,960
Speaker 2: so Now i'm demanding a separate. Trial but they tried

326
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,680
Speaker 2: us just the same. Time SO i felt my rights

327
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,720
Speaker 2: was BECAUSE i almost took. OVER i, Know i'm not an,

328
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,440
Speaker 2: attorney BUT i got good common. SENSE i don't want

329
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,560
Speaker 2: to sit at the table with this, guy and he

330
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,760
Speaker 2: is the. Shooter so Now i'm sitting at the. Table

331
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,600
Speaker 2: so what he Did he simultaneously tried us in the same,

332
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 2: day the same court with the same.

333
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,680
Speaker 4: People, yeah that seems.

334
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,440
Speaker 5: Crazy so you end up getting convicted and being sent

335
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,240
Speaker 5: to a really scary.

336
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,200
Speaker 2: Place oh, Yeah pontiac prison guards to tell you welcome To.

337
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,240
Speaker 2: Pontiac in fifteen, minutes you had your own personal, shank

338
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,360
Speaker 2: your own personal Shak, yeah and you had. It place

339
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,600
Speaker 2: was full of blood already when you walked through those big.

340
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,720
Speaker 2: Doors slide, open AND i ain't never been in prison.

341
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,120
Speaker 1: Before, man it was it was.

342
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,920
Speaker 5: SHOCKING i read that there were three hundred and sixty

343
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,080
Speaker 5: incarcerated men in the prison at that time in five.

344
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,680
Speaker 4: Guards, yeah in one, building in one, Building yeah.

345
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,320
Speaker 5: YEAH i mean that doesn't sound like a recipe for success.

346
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,120
Speaker 5: EITHER i mean one, building and the guards had automatic,

347
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,040
Speaker 5: weapons and there were bullet, holes and there was a

348
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,840
Speaker 5: sign that, said, yeah dropped to the ground if bullets are.

349
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,160
Speaker 4: Fired you see that sign where you, like AM i

350
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:03,200
Speaker 4: in a? War?

351
00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:04,880
Speaker 1: Yeah that's What that's what it.

352
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,360
Speaker 2: Was you can be on the yard in five seconds

353
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,360
Speaker 2: and watch somebody get. Stabbed that's the reason they tell

354
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 2: you if you go, down drop to the, ground.

355
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,800
Speaker 5: Because then they're gonna start to. Shoot being vastly outnumbered

356
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,240
Speaker 5: as the guards, were that's their last, recourse. RIGHT i

357
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,560
Speaker 5: mean that's a tough job. TOO i, MEAN i, mean just.

358
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,440
Speaker 2: For the sake of knowing what exactly, happens you, know

359
00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 2: BECAUSE i know they. Exaggerated so those guards are not

360
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,720
Speaker 2: moving three hundred guys at one. Time in the, salehouse

361
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,120
Speaker 2: you move only a section at a, Time so you

362
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,160
Speaker 2: might see thirty, guys two, guards one in the, front

363
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,480
Speaker 2: one in the back and then the guy own with

364
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,200
Speaker 2: the rifle that's gonna knock your brains.

365
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 1: Out And pontiac is.

366
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,080
Speaker 5: Held, well you were in lockdown sometimes twenty four hours a.

367
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,320
Speaker 5: Day yeah, RIGHT i mean there was a. Month there

368
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:49,760
Speaker 5: was a month where you were never let out of.

369
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,280
Speaker 5: YOURSELF i, mean it's incredible that you have any mental,

370
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 5: faculties you, know preserved after.

371
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,400
Speaker 2: That it was more than a. Month they used to

372
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,000
Speaker 2: lock us down In pontiac for a. Year lock you, down.

373
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,560
Speaker 5: So no, shower no. Nothing you get a shower once

374
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,680
Speaker 5: a week and other than that you're locked down twenty a. Week,

375
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,720
Speaker 5: yeah twenty four seven in yourself.

376
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,000
Speaker 2: With someone, else with someone else and the toilet and

377
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,560
Speaker 2: EVERY i mean every day they would lock you. Down

378
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,399
Speaker 2: if an incident, occurred somebody got, stabbed they'd lock you.

379
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,359
Speaker 2: Down you'd be locked up six. Months they let you

380
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,560
Speaker 2: off two, days somebody else get, hit they lock you

381
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 2: up another six. Months And i'm talking about complete lock.

382
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,760
Speaker 2: Up pontiac was held because it was like it was

383
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,800
Speaker 2: almost like a, supermax but it was one of the

384
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,119
Speaker 2: roughest max joints In. Illinois and every day you see

385
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,000
Speaker 2: either someone getting, raped somebody getting, stabbed somebody getting beat

386
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,119
Speaker 2: half to death or somebody getting shot by the.

387
00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,840
Speaker 4: Guards that's, Insane and then you.

388
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,360
Speaker 2: Talk about the. TRAUMA i watched the man in front

389
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,560
Speaker 2: of my. CELL i had just finished working. OUT i

390
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,119
Speaker 2: came in to get in the, shower and the guard

391
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,119
Speaker 2: was telling him to put his hands, down and he

392
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,879
Speaker 2: was talking with his, hands and he shot him so.

393
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:01,840
Speaker 1: Fast you just see.

394
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 2: The blood, jump like from the first floor to the third.

395
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,119
Speaker 2: Floor he hit him so fast and.

396
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,080
Speaker 4: Killed the man instantly because he was talking on his.

397
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,959
Speaker 2: Hands, yeah you, know because potential. Violence you, know guys

398
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,360
Speaker 2: do that when they're getting ready to do. Something so

399
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 2: these are the. SIGNS i guess he blew his brains.

400
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,440
Speaker 2: Out but this place is what you saw every. Day

401
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,720
Speaker 2: either you, came you got up to go to work

402
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:28,439
Speaker 2: in the. MORNING i used to leave out five in the.

403
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,560
Speaker 2: MORNING i had an institutional, job SO i work all

404
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,320
Speaker 2: over the, penitentiary death, row protect the.

405
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:34,919
Speaker 1: CUSTODY i work all over the.

406
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,320
Speaker 2: Joint SO i get ready to leave out in the

407
00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,000
Speaker 2: morning AND i walk past the guy's sell he's hanging, there.

408
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,200
Speaker 1: Just hanging. There you. KNOW i to see so much

409
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 1: of it you become numb to. It and that's a.

410
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 5: Shame and the scene you're describing Makes Shaw Shank redemptions

411
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:50,960
Speaker 5: sound like A disney.

412
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,520
Speaker 4: MOVIE i, mean it's just it. Was, yeah it's as

413
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,640
Speaker 4: bad as it. Gets, yeah it's.

414
00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:02,320
Speaker 5: So bizarre that we have it absolutely, wrong absolutely. Backwards

415
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 5: and In Western european countries and In scandinavian countries.

416
00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 4: And all over the world they take the opposite.

417
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,119
Speaker 5: Approach their thing is when you get, out you're going

418
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 5: to have to live next door to, somebody maybe. Me,

419
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 5: Right so at one point a couple of good things, happen,

420
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 5: Right you found sort of hope and sanity and music, again,

421
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,800
Speaker 5: Right AND i thought that was a brave thing that you,

422
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,480
Speaker 5: did because there were at the time no musical instruments

423
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,399
Speaker 5: in this prison hell whatever you want to call, it,

424
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,560
Speaker 5: right and you were able to convince the, warden.

425
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 1: Superintendent kelly it was my, buddy.

426
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,400
Speaker 5: Right so he at your behas he ordered some instruments

427
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,439
Speaker 5: and you got to put together a little band and

428
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,680
Speaker 5: get a little some kind of, JOY i, guess, yeah.

429
00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 2: Because we had been on lockdown so much and they

430
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 2: had had some instruments they had it was. Garbage So

431
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,280
Speaker 2: kelly had decided that if that would keep us peaceful

432
00:19:58,320 --> 00:19:58,680
Speaker 2: around a.

433
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 1: Joint well ordered some more.

434
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,679
Speaker 2: Instruments so he ordered some more drums and guitars and,

435
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 2: amps and it was.

436
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,400
Speaker 1: Called The Power Soul, Band Our Soul Power Soul.

437
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 2: Band and so we played and most of the guys

438
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 2: was in the band had natural. Life so those guys

439
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 2: are still locked. Up so we had we had a nice,

440
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 2: bandman and the unit was good and it kept things kind.

441
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 2: OF i, mean we didn't go on lock down for

442
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:24,159
Speaker 2: like maybe a year and a.

443
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,439
Speaker 1: Half you, know it.

444
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 2: Was because guys wanted to get out when we. Performed

445
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,239
Speaker 2: they wanted to be, there they wanted to see. It you,

446
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 2: know it's like you going to a, party.

447
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,400
Speaker 5: Right so they had a reason right to not want

448
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,399
Speaker 5: to be violent because if they, did they would be

449
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 5: depriving this little bit of, hope joy, music you, know

450
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,359
Speaker 5: life distraction everyone to call. It it is important for

451
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 5: people to recognize we need to improve the, conditions but

452
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 5: also bring arts and bring education into the, prison recognizing

453
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,199
Speaker 5: that ninety five plus percent of people in prison are

454
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 5: going to get out at some point and have to

455
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:58,439
Speaker 5: rejoin the.

456
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 2: Community WHEN i was, LIKE i heard a politician, say

457
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 2: why SHOULD i spend twenty thousand dollars on a convict

458
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 2: to get an education WHEN i have to pay for

459
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 2: my sons and daughters to go to. School and they took,

460
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,239
Speaker 2: school they took the college because you should to get

461
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 2: a bachelor's associated all kind of degrees in, prison and

462
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 2: guys come out and make a difference in their. Lives

463
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 2: they'd come out and do better than what they did

464
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 2: when they went in because they was able to get a,

465
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 2: job come employed.

466
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,919
Speaker 1: Today it's not you come, out you just.

467
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,239
Speaker 5: Out that's an extremely ignorant thing for the guy to,

468
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,880
Speaker 5: say because if he had done any studying at, all

469
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 5: he would know that in places where those kind of programs,

470
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 5: exist the people coming out have a tremendous rate of,

471
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 5: success staying crime, free paying, taxes contributing to the, community

472
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 5: reconnecting with, family.

473
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 4: All those positive aspects of.

474
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 5: Society so even if you're not looking at it from

475
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 5: a human point of, view just looking at it from

476
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 5: a protecting and improving society point of, view the benefits

477
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 5: are immense and only the most maya and closed minded

478
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 5: individuals can see it any other. Way so music came

479
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 5: in to give a little something back to.

480
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 4: Your, soul, right give you a little bit of.

481
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 5: Hope and then you had sort of the guy you

482
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 5: would call me your, angel, right sort of appear In,

483
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 5: miraculous who was actually a real estate, lawyer.

484
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 1: Right and he was an angel for.

485
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 4: Real so let's talk about. Him his name what was

486
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 4: his name of This Joseph.

487
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 5: Howard Or Howard, Joseph Howard, Joseph, right tell me about this,

488
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 5: Guy Howard.

489
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 2: Joseph first of, all let me tell YOU i never

490
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 2: admitted to ever being in love with a, man BUT

491
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 2: i love this, man. Right this is my Little jewish.

492
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 2: Love this is my. Man How joseph was an, angel you.

493
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 2: Know he came in and WHAT i liked about him

494
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 2: was he was, Bossy Like, lord he's, bossy, Right and

495
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 2: he came in and one DAY i was working out

496
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: on the yard and he, said, man you got a,

497
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 2: visit so you gotta. VISIT i said a? Visit he, said,

498
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 2: yeah your. ATTORNEY i ain't got no, attorney so, yeah

499
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 2: you got an. Attorney SO i. GO i go to

500
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 2: the front to the visiting, room and there he. Is

501
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 2: he's standing. There The jewish guy had on lorraine, coat

502
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 2: little flip, flops looking Like, colombo Remember.

503
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: Colombo and they come in and that's who you remind me.

504
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 2: Of So i'm looking at him and so he, said

505
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 2: say that. Twine he, said, okay he's sitting. Down SO

506
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 2: i sat.

507
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: Down i'm, like what's this old man telling me to?

508
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: Say boss me?

509
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: Around and he said sit, Down SO i sat. Down

510
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 2: he Said i'm your. ATTORNEY i, said you my. Attorney

511
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 2: SO i was, like, yeah so this is a, joke,

512
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: Right i'm thinking it's a. Joke he, said, No i'm your.

513
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 2: Attorney he, said your sister and my son had been

514
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: talking AND i read your, case he, said AND i

515
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 2: just need you to be.

516
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 1: Patient we're going to get you out of, here you.

517
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: Know AND i just looked at him like, this this

518
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: has got to be a.

519
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 2: Joke so he drove three hours one way to come see,

520
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 2: me and he was about seventy two, then and he

521
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 2: drove back, home and he drove. Again he came, again

522
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 2: AND i, said are you driving away down by? Yourself

523
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 2: he said, yeah give me a chance to.

524
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 1: Think so he would.

525
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 2: Come people would laugh at. Him he, said get you

526
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 2: out of. Here SO i PUT i put faith in

527
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 2: that he'd ask for. Nothing he didn't ask for, anything you.

528
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: KNOW i tried to pay for his gas and buying food.

529
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 5: And he's, well he had he had a phrase that

530
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 5: he would repeat to, you, right which.

531
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 2: Was that's when we made it to the county. Jail oh,

532
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 2: yeah he. Would every day he would, say so you're

533
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 2: ready to go. HOME i, said of, Course i'm ready

534
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: to go. Home he, said are you ready to go?

535
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 2: Home you got some clothes your, mama bring me some.

536
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 2: CLOTHES i said.

537
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: No so it went on for like two, years almost

538
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 1: to that.

539
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 4: Day you guys had like a routine on.

540
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: Him, yeah we had a. Routine.

541
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 2: MAN i MEAN i loved his heart because he was.

542
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: Consistent you, know he was a, man had no greed.

543
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: Involved he didn't ask for. Anything he always told, me he,

544
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 2: said nobody know your case better than you.

545
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: Do attention to.

546
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 4: It he was a real estate, lawyer, Right actually he was.

547
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: A criminal attorney that higher then he just did real,

548
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 2: estate got, it just did real estate for, years and

549
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 2: so when he saw my, case he wanted to get

550
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 2: back in the.

551
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 1: Game he, said you would be my last. Case AND i.

552
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 1: WAS i was actually his last.

553
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 4: Case it's kind of a. Miracle, yeah actually.

554
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 5: Right he would just pop up out of nowhere AND

555
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 5: i could see why you thought you were being punked

556
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 5: so to, speak, right.

557
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: He did punk, me he, did he made me sit.

558
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 5: Down so ultimately your Little jewish guardian angel appears on

559
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 5: the scene and.

560
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 4: He did what he said he was going to.

561
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 5: Do he did because otherwise you wouldn't be sitting here

562
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 5: because you had your sentence was you had two sentences,

563
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 5: right for two different, crimes because.

564
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 2: Murders temp, murder and they charged me with this arm

565
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 2: and the farm within the city limits by.

566
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: Felon they gave me a temp.

567
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 5: Murder this was nineteen ninety, Two, antoine and you were

568
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 5: sending sixty years for murder and twenty five years for attempted.

569
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 5: Murder so he came along just in the nicked time

570
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 5: because you weren't going to spend the.

571
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 4: Rest of your life in. Prison, yeah there was no

572
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 4: doubt about.

573
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 5: It so ultimately he. Won and what did judge say

574
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 5: when he when he vacated your?

575
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 4: Conviction?

576
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: Oh, man the judge was, like, uh he asked me

577
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: IF i had any last? Words you, know DID i

578
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: want to say?

579
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: Anything?

580
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 2: MAN i kind of went off in the courtroom BECAUSE

581
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: i told the, JUDGE i said the state's attorney knew

582
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 2: all the time that they was lying on. Me he

583
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 2: knew all the time because he kept telling, me you

584
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 2: give us what we, want you can go. Home he

585
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 2: knew all the. Time So judge, said Mister, day he,

586
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: said he, said how you. FEEL i, Said i'm. Okay he,

587
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 2: said well the days you're. Lucky day you're going. Home and,

588
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 2: MAN i, MEAN i wasn't even, shocked you, know it

589
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: was just LIKE i was just standing there.

590
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 5: And what was what was YOUR i, Mean i'm just

591
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 5: trying to have this beautiful picture in my mind of

592
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 5: you And.

593
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: Howard Mister, howard he just re stove and hugged. Me you.

594
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 2: Know, well let me tell you this part before we

595
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:51,959
Speaker 2: get to that good. Part let me tell you how

596
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 2: the state's attorneys treated. Him they used to laugh at.

597
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: Him state's attorney used to look at me while we're

598
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 2: sitting in the courtroom in his fancy. Suit mister how

599
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 2: would have on flip flops and they would laugh at

600
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 2: him like he was a. Joke they would laugh at

601
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 2: him like, so the state's attorney would sit back in his,

602
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 2: chair do this to.

603
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 4: Me he's pulling his finger across his throat like you, know.

604
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: Like he's slashing my throat Like i'm. Dead alison don't

605
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: worry about.

606
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: HIM i got. Him he, Said i'm good with bullies

607
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: because they're.

608
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: Bullies at that, day you should have seen the expressions

609
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: on these guys. Faces they just couldn't believe that this

610
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 2: little man just beat them, up this.

611
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 4: Bad the.

612
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: Wrong little, jew you, know and he cursed like a.

613
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: Seller so he was cursing all the while we were in.

614
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 2: Court he was mfing and all kind of. Stuff he

615
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: just didn't play no. Games and this judge told, me you,

616
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 2: know he was, saying you've been blessed because this man

617
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 2: did his due.

618
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: Diligence he got me out of.

619
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 5: There i'm getting a chill right. Now so he's become

620
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 5: sort of a mythical. Figure he has a program named after,

621
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 5: him oh, yeah In illinois and.

622
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 4: Stuff he's not around, anymore.

623
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: Yes, see because his work is my.

624
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 5: Work his spirit lives on in you and also in

625
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 5: the program that's named after. Him, So, antoine the way

626
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 5: that you found out about your conviction being vacated is

627
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 5: a very. Unusual in, Fact i've never heard anything quite like.

628
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 4: It can you share that? Story me and a.

629
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: Guy Kenny, williams we were on the yard At stateville,

630
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: actually when he transferred me To stateville who was working

631
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: out on the. Yard he was reading the newspaper that

632
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 2: we're not supposed to.

633
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: Have in the.

634
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: Newspaper it had my case had been. Overturned so this

635
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 2: guy had he had called my name. OUT i thought

636
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: he was just. Joking he called my name out. Again

637
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: he was, like, man so you got to come see.

638
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: This SO i walked over and looked in the. Newspaper

639
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: it was like. Wow SO i called my. Attorney my

640
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 2: attorney THOUGHT i was joking and he didn't believe it

641
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: because he didn't know anything about.

642
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 4: It was It April fools or something that it felt like.

643
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 2: It, Yeah so WHEN i told, him he went, crazy you,

644
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: know he was like cursing me, out Thinking i'm. Joking

645
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: so he went and got the. Paper he ran out

646
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: of his, office walked and got the, paper came, back

647
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: AND i called him. Back he was, like it is

648
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: they overturned the. Case so he was trying to figure

649
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: out how could they possibly do this because time run

650
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: at that moment and you only have a certain amount

651
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 2: of time to meet it before you probably miss it

652
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 2: and miss all the pill.

653
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: Processes so he went and got right on top.

654
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 2: Of it and then maybe like a year, later they moved

655
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 2: me back to the county.

656
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 5: Jail now that's another, thing, Right so anyone listening would, Say,

657
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 5: okay well it's in the. Newspaper your conviction has been.

658
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 5: Overturned so wouldn't they want to send you home at that? Point,

659
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 5: no not exactly, right not In, chicago not at that, time.

660
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: Not the processes of. Politics back to the county. Jail

661
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: so now you go, back and you go back in

662
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: front of the. Judge he listened to the new, evidence

663
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 2: he listened to all this stuff that went. On SO

664
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 2: i was in the county jail for maybe a little

665
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: over two. YEARS i was a. BARBER i was cutting

666
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 2: the hand in the county and working in a. BARBERSHOP

667
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: i was In division, eleven pretty, good, clean pretty white.

668
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 2: Building it was real neat and clean over. There and

669
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: they moved me one, night maybe like four in the

670
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: morning or am moved me To division. ONE i didn't know.

671
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 2: WHY i hadn't done, anything hadn't been in no, trouble

672
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: straight and narrow so far put me in the cell

673
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: with a. GUY i didn't know who he was at the,

674
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: time but my son was.

675
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: Killed he god.

676
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 2: Killed in two thousand AND i came home two thousand and.

677
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: Two he was seventeen when they moved me From division.

678
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 2: Eleven they moved me To division, one and they put

679
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: me in the cell with the guy that actually killed.

680
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 5: Him they put you in the, cell, yeah putting the

681
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 5: guy who killed your.

682
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 4: Son and it wasn't a long. Time but this is re,

683
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 4: right press, right AND i, mean my head is, exploding, Right.

684
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 5: And they did this on, purpose, right because it was

685
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,719
Speaker 5: not a. Coincidence and it's also strange that they did

686
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 5: it at four in the, morning, right it's not the

687
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 5: typical time that they move. You and they've been moved

688
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 5: for no reason except there was a reason because from

689
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 5: WHAT i can figure, out they didn't like the fact

690
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 5: that you were going to get out and that you

691
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 5: had proven them. Wrong you and with the help of

692
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 5: this magical seventy something year old attorney who didn't dress

693
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 5: right and was being made by the.

694
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 4: Prosecutor so they didn't like.

695
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 5: That so it sounds to me AND i hate to

696
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 5: think in terms that are so.

697
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 4: Sinister but you were a big guy back, then, Right

698
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 4: you were bench pressing five hundred.

699
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: POUNDS i was in the fire. Club we just called

700
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: the five hundred.

701
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 5: Club so they moved you to this, cell thinking this

702
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 5: guy meaning, you you're going to kill this other, guy

703
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 5: BECAUSE i mean.

704
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 4: It SEEMED i, mean of, course like WHAT.

705
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: I did recognize WAS i went back in my head

706
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 2: for a little while BECAUSE i remember WHEN i was In,

707
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: pontiac how the state's attorney had came and investigated, me

708
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 2: was asking all these questions around, me AND i was

709
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: never supposed to know that they were even, there BUT

710
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 2: i found, out and it was kind of this made

711
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: a little bit more familiar to what the process was

712
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: of them keeping me. Incocerated IF i catch another, case

713
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: then my appeal is non and. Void it's just not gonna.

714
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 2: Happen so they put me in this predicament with this.

715
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: Guy either he was gonna kill me OR i was

716
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 2: gonna kill. Him it would have been a lose lose

717
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: situation for me to do something or have something done to.

718
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,239
Speaker 1: Me, SO i, mean it's a chess. Game they made their,

719
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: moves SO i had to make.

720
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: Mine my move was to call the guard and tell

721
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: THEM i refuse housing SO i could be taken out

722
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: of this. Situation you, know because at this, POINT i,

723
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: MEAN i got great common.

724
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: Sense i'm this close to. Home i'm not going to blow.

725
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 5: It even for the literally the most extreme situation you

726
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 5: can possibly find.

727
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: Yourself it wouldn't have did. Anything it wouldn't have brought them. Back,

728
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: no IF i had to beat them to a, pope

729
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 2: it wouldn't have brought him. Back so man of the,

730
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: matter you, know it's just at a point you just

731
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 2: have to think about the future.

732
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 4: Now that that's an incredible it's a mind blowing.

733
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: Story AND i never shared this.

734
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: Story so if people don't even know about, this you

735
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 2: seem to get all getting it all out of me,

736
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: today know what going on around, here.

737
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 5: None of us could possibly. Understand nobody that hasn't been

738
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 5: doing that. Understand but it's a miracle that you were

739
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 5: able to resist an impulse that must have been as

740
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 5: powerful as any that anybody could.

741
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 4: Imagine but it, IS.

742
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: I, mean it's it's a. Thing you, Know.

743
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: I've always heard the term of feeling your blood. Boil you,

744
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 2: know how you just feel your body go.

745
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: To a whole nother.

746
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 4: Temperature that would be. It youth get the.

747
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: Rise and you get the.

748
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: Sweating and that's WHAT i was going. Through BECAUSE i

749
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 2: have told myself over and over and over and over

750
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 2: and over.

751
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: Again IF i ever see, them What i'm going to

752
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: do to?

753
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 2: Them, right you, know IF i ever because you always,

754
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: talk you avenge your family and stand up for your,

755
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 2: family and when you put in these situations in this,

756
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 2: circumstance you, KNOW i always said that to, myself SO

757
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 2: i had to escalate.

758
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: Immediately you.

759
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 5: Know it's almost like who could blame? You you're in

760
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 5: year eight or nine of your wrongful. Incarceration you've been

761
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 5: through everything that they can throw at, you and now

762
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 5: you just lived through the worst thing that a parent

763
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 5: can go through is to lose a child and then

764
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,919
Speaker 5: to be put in a tiny cell with a. Guy

765
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 5: but you're, right it wouldn't accomplish. Anything but it's easy

766
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 5: to say from, here you didn't. Here it's easy to.

767
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 5: Say so this is SOMETHING i really want to highlight

768
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 5: because in twenty five years of doing, this the first

769
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,439
Speaker 5: thing that people ask me almost every TIME i tell

770
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 5: a story like yours is do they get compensated to this?

771
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 4: Man did this? Woman tell? Me they? Get?

772
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 5: Yeah and you should see like the eyes are bugging,

773
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 5: out like you, know because if you if you're not

774
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 5: familiar with, this and a lot of people, aren't when

775
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 5: you first hear one of these, stories you get so. Shook,

776
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,919
Speaker 5: Right tell me they get, Paid tell me they get

777
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 5: something when they get.

778
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 4: Out and you, KNOW.

779
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 5: I think it's shocking to a lot of people to

780
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 5: learn that a lot of exgneries get, nothing, period full,

781
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 5: stop end of. Story, right they just have to go

782
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 5: figure it out with this twenty year gap or whatever

783
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 5: it might. Be but even if you do get, paid

784
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 5: because people see the stories in the, paper sometimes somebody

785
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 5: successfully sues for civil rights violation or whatever it is

786
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 5: and gets millions of, dollars which they, deserve and still

787
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 5: DOESN'T i don't know too many people that would, say.

788
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 4: OH i GOT i got a deal for.

789
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 5: You you're going to do ten twenty years in the most dangerous,

790
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 5: place one of the most dangerous places on, Earth like

791
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 5: you literally be better off trying to find diamonds in

792
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 5: a river In africa with with crocodiles and, hippos then

793
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 5: you would be In pontiac. PRISON i don't know too

794
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 5: many people that would, say, Ye i'll take that. Deal,

795
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 5: Yeah i'm gonna go do that ten years and give

796
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 5: me the money at the Other so that's out the.

797
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 5: Window but the fact is that even the people who

798
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 5: do get compensated have to wait an incredibly long, time

799
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 5: years and years to get their, money and in the

800
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 5: meantime they're stuck in sort of a twilight. Zone, Right

801
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 5: and there's no better example than. YOURS i want to

802
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 5: talk about.

803
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 4: THAT i want to hear it in your own.

804
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 5: Words the judge has just, said today's your lucky. Day

805
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 5: do you want to go? Home you And howard are, hugging,

806
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 5: right Mister. Howard and you didn't just walk out the. Door, No,

807
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 5: no there was a. Process, oh the process is.

808
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 2: Terrible so after The sokar, release it took me almost

809
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: eight hours to get out of, that if not more,

810
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 2: so they run you right back through the. Process SO

811
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 2: i had to go back down in this dungeon in

812
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 2: the bottom of the county. Jail in the, bottom it's

813
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 2: the last basement in the county. Jail so it's really

814
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: pipes and plumbing and rats and everything just in this, place,

815
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: Right and it's a room a little bigger than this,

816
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: room and it's a pile of. Clothes so in these

817
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 2: pile of clothes it used to. Close guys it's took

818
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,879
Speaker 2: off coming in who slept in them maybe a week

819
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 2: inside one of these jails on the street and they

820
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 2: make you pick out some clothes out of this power

821
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: in order to.

822
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: Walk out of.

823
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 4: Here and they haven't been.

824
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: Washed haven't been.

825
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 2: Washed oh, MAN i picked the biggest PIECE i could

826
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 2: so it wouldn't really be attached to. Me SO i

827
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 2: picked out a jigging, suit a black jigon suit with

828
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: a hood because the guard says raining outside real. Bad

829
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 2: SO i picked out it had a hood on. It

830
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 2: the suit LIKE i would extra. Large this suit had

831
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 2: to be a three x of four.

832
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 4: X it was so.

833
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: Big the sleeves was hanging and it stinks so.

834
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 2: BAD i mean reek of just, urine and you, know

835
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 2: BUT i had no choice IF i wanted to stay

836
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 2: another day in the county, jail another two days in

837
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: the county, jail because you get lost in that system so.

838
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 2: Easily SO i, said, No i'm gonna grab. Something SO

839
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: i grabbed that and the jigging.

840
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,720
Speaker 4: Pants and it held your nose, basically.

841
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: Yes and just got used to. It you, KNOW i

842
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 1: just lived in.

843
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 5: Filth and the issue was, that because it took hours

844
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 5: and hours for this process to, happen Mister, howard COULDN'T

845
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 5: i like calling him Mister? Howard a. Legendary, yeah me,

846
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 5: too So i'm picking up after. You so he wasn't

847
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 5: able to, stay, right he had another obligation of something

848
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 5: he had to.

849
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 2: Go i'm sure your, Right so he went home to

850
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 2: take care of his. Wife but then we never know

851
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: how long you be. There he's not coming out in thirty,

852
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 2: minutes twenty, minutes you, know it's a. Process so, NO

853
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 2: i didn't want to make him, stay so he. Went

854
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 2: he went, home and at this, point nobody knew that

855
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 2: this was going to happen this, day so my family

856
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: wasn't even, there SO i just ended up just coming.

857
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: Out they FINALLY i put the clothes, on they put me.

858
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: Out they kept my forty three dollars and some eye.

859
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 4: Change, well your forty three dollars wasn't even.

860
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 5: There it was in a different, right so you had

861
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,479
Speaker 5: no ability to access, that and they send you. Out

862
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 5: what the date of the release Was? May, right it

863
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 5: Was may, ninth.

864
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 4: But may is not.

865
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 5: Exactly it's not warm at night In may In. Chicago,

866
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 5: No so it's cold and, rainy.

867
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,439
Speaker 4: Rainy, yeah and it's, Dark, yeah it's.

868
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 2: Dark AND i stood in the rain man for about three,

869
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 2: hours just wondering trying to figure it.

870
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 1: OUT i had no money to get. HOME i had,

871
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: nothing absolutely.

872
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: Nothing SO i was just standing, there soaking with freaking

873
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 2: of Old i've never experienced in my life until somebody

874
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 2: pulled up on me and, SAID i got one of my.

875
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 2: Buddies you, know he didn't even. Know he, Says so

876
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 2: what you're doing out? HERE i just broke. Out he,

877
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 2: said so you need a, ride so you, know guys

878
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 2: quick to help you if you committed a, CROWN i.

879
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 7: Guess and this isn't just any street.

880
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,760
Speaker 6: Corner it's twenty six in Cow so that is the

881
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 6: hub of The chicago criminal court. System it's the busiest

882
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 6: court system in the. World it's not in a great.

883
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,720
Speaker 6: Neighborhood during the, day everyone's, saying be, careful be, careful

884
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 6: be careful when you go out. There he has not

885
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 6: been in society for over a, decade and he has

886
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 6: walked out onto this dangerous street corner without a bus,

887
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 6: cart without AN, id without a, phone without frankly much

888
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 6: of an, identity and just there you.

889
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 2: Go will people get killed right in front of the.

890
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,919
Speaker 2: Building he just had an incident a couple of weeks.

891
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 2: Ago a guy got killed right with all this police,

892
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 2: activity he gets murdered right on the.

893
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 5: Street it's so interesting and it's uplifting because at the

894
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 5: end of the, day randomly in the city the size Of,

895
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 5: chicago your friend happened to be driving, By, like.

896
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:36,959
Speaker 4: Yo what are you doing?

897
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 5: Here and, LIKE i, mean that's another little, miracle, Right

898
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 5: but Well i'm, BLESSED i know.

899
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 4: That, yeah, well that's.

900
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 5: An amazing thing for somebody to say that's been through

901
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 5: ten years inside the most horrific prison, system nightmare for

902
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 5: something he didn't.

903
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 4: Do but it's a great way to look at.

904
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 5: It and the fact is it's almost like the energy

905
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 5: feel that Mister howard, created and then this guy was

906
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 5: sort of an extension of, that like your other guardian.

907
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 4: Angel but there's no planet.

908
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 5: On which we should allow somebody to emerge from this

909
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 5: what sort of an extra fuck you right, here get

910
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 5: out of, here smelling like you just rolled around in

911
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 5: the you, know in the, gutter and then good luck

912
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 5: not even like.

913
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: Not even good.

914
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 4: Luck, NO i, mean get the hell out right.

915
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 5: And if you get, killed you because we didn't care

916
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,919
Speaker 5: about you before and we don't care about you. Now

917
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 5: i'm not saying they necessarily have to have a chariot

918
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 5: waiting for you with white horses or a golden thing or.

919
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 4: Whatever but a bus ticket would have been. FINE a bus,

920
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 4: TICKET a phone, call, yeah that would have been.

921
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: Fun about a phone, call can somebody come give? It

922
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: they don't give you any of, That they're not. RESPONSIBLE

923
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: a phone call would have been. Good phone call would

924
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: have been.

925
00:41:46,920 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 5: Great, LAURA i want to turn to you because you

926
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 5: have a new book out WHICH i read THAT i.

927
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 5: Love it's Called anatomy Of, Innocence thank. You. Yeah and

928
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 5: in the book you paired, exoneries Including, antoine with legendary

929
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 5: authors in order to tell their story in a way

930
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 5: that is particularly poignant and also really sort of. Succinct

931
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 5: so can you talk about that process BECAUSE i love

932
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 5: the book AND i hope everybody will check it. Out

933
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 5: anatomy Of, Innocence thank.

934
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 4: You.

935
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 6: Yeah it's Called anatomy Of, Innocence and we basically are trying,

936
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 6: to in, fact do what you're. Doing we're trying to

937
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 6: get inside the, mind inside the, soul behind the eyes

938
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 6: of someone who went through a wrongful. Conviction so we've

939
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 6: broken it down into. Stages the knock on the, door you,

940
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,439
Speaker 6: know the first time you When antoine heard his name

941
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 6: was getting batted.

942
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,439
Speaker 7: Around what do you do when you hear?

943
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 6: Guilty because every exonery thinks they'll here not guilty because

944
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 6: they can tell that the criminal justice system is not

945
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 6: working well because they're in it and they're. Innocent but

946
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 6: they all think they're hill not, guilty all of, them

947
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,320
Speaker 6: and they hear. Guilty there's hearing all sorts of testimony

948
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 6: about yourself at, trial which isn't. True there's the walking

949
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 6: into prison for the first, time dealing with the crazies

950
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 6: that are in, there finding someone to get you, out

951
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 6: and then the fact that freedom is just the. Beginning

952
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 6: we wanted to show that sometimes they happen like, This

953
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 6: sometimes they happen like you see ON tv where you

954
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 6: see people outside holding up the, arms and other, times

955
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 6: And antoine's is not the only Case i've heard of

956
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 6: about being released onto the street with.

957
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 7: NOTHING i, mean it's more frequent than.

958
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,439
Speaker 4: Not it's just another bizarre aspect of the whole.

959
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 6: Thing so it is a bizarre, aspect and, frankly so

960
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 6: many of these things are so.

961
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 7: Fortuitous and he said he feels.

962
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 6: Lucky antoine, SAID i feel, lucky AND i think you,

963
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 6: Know i've heard people say that exoneries are the luckiest unlucky,

964
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 6: People AND i mean it was. Strange even WHEN i Met,

965
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 6: ANTOINE i had taken another. Xonery antoine has been working

966
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 6: in re entry since he got, out AND i took

967
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 6: another exonery to get services he ran Into. Antoine antoine

968
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 6: did not know he was an ex. Hoonery Howard joseph had,

969
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 6: died and he also didn't know That illinois was one

970
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 6: of the states that had, compensation and he had about

971
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 6: twenty eight days from the TIME i met him to

972
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 6: file or forever it's gone.

973
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 5: Forever old your. Piece so WHAT i took from the

974
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 5: book also each of those. Stories it's so. Fascinating, Again

975
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 5: i'm getting the. Chills you can't make these stories. Up

976
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,399
Speaker 5: and when you read, them and when you read them

977
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 5: written so beautifully by such important literary figures as you

978
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 5: have put together In Anatomy, ventics it's really it's a

979
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 5: great experience reading the. Book so tell us About life After,

980
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 5: innocence because that's a program you run At loyola.

981
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,320
Speaker 6: Right life After innocence is a clinic At Loyola Chicago

982
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 6: school Of, law and we in fact have The Howard

983
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 6: joseph award that we give every year in Mister howard's

984
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,720
Speaker 6: honor for people who help the innocent without basically seeking

985
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 6: compensation or. Recognition so my law students AND i since

986
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 6: two thousand and nine have been representing X houneries to

987
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 6: help them start. Over, previously we did a lot. More

988
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 6: when we started in two thousand and, nine one or

989
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 6: two people got out a year in THE.

990
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 7: Us now it's three a.

991
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 6: Week so now we're focusing primarily on criminal records, relief

992
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 6: getting their records, cleared because what most people don't know

993
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 6: is that When antoine walked, out even though his case

994
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 6: had been, overturned when he got pulled over by the,

995
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 6: cops it's still a convicted. Murderer so till someone goes

996
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 6: in and gets your record cleaned, up it's still on your.

997
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 6: Record doesn't matter even IF dna showed who it really,

998
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 6: was still on your. Record so we get that cleaned,

999
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 6: up and then we push for, legislation which we've been

1000
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 6: successful on so slowly we're adding to the services that

1001
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 6: X houneries get In.

1002
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:54,760
Speaker 4: Illinois that's incredible.

1003
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,240
Speaker 5: Work AND i also want to just touch on Briefly Joseph,

1004
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 5: howard who now has the award made that you can't

1005
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 5: see it on the, radio AS i always, say But

1006
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 5: i've been Watching antoine's body, language and every time this

1007
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 5: man's name comes, up he sort of sits up straight

1008
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 5: and starts smiling. Uncontrollably and for those of you.

1009
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 2: Trying to start from, Crying i'm telling you, something, man

1010
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,919
Speaker 2: is this Is it always seemed to, Happen but this

1011
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 2: guy has really touched my soul in the way that

1012
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: he operated and what he did for, me BECAUSE i

1013
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 2: only pay it forward and because of. Him because of, him,

1014
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 2: MAN i, mean it means a. Lot so, YEAH i

1015
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: carry him very, high you.

1016
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 5: Know AND i want to give a shout out to

1017
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 5: all THE i know there's a lot of attorneys that

1018
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 5: listen to the show who do incredible amounts of pro

1019
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 5: bono work on behalf of people like, yourself and to

1020
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 5: all of, THEM i just want to say that you

1021
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 5: have all of our respect and appreciation because we couldn't

1022
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 5: do it without. You and if anybody is considering getting

1023
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 5: into the, WORK i encourage you to to meet somebody

1024
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 5: Like antoine and see what it's meant in a very

1025
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 5: personal and magical. Way so we will continue to Honor

1026
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 5: Joseph howard by continuing to support the. Work, now as

1027
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 5: is a tradition on wrong for, conviction we always like

1028
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 5: to give you the exgnery the last, word so we'll

1029
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 5: turn it over to.

1030
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 1: You, Okay, well thank you so.

1031
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 2: MUCH i do appreciate being, here getting the opportunity to

1032
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 2: share and to enlighten people of what really goes on

1033
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: outside of just the, media and to thank people Like

1034
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 2: laura and yourself for having this. Platform but most of,

1035
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 2: ALL i like to say WHERE i am today it

1036
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 2: is because of somebody's.

1037
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: Help the things THAT i do.

1038
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 2: Today i'm a court advocate for juvenile youth In chicago

1039
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 2: when they go to court to make sure they're not

1040
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 2: wronged LIKE i. Was so when they get, ARRESTED i

1041
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 2: get a phone call and we appear in.

1042
00:47:58,239 --> 00:47:59,720
Speaker 1: COURT i support.

1043
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 2: Them also with the Family, AGAIN i work in one

1044
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 2: of the most harshest communities in the city Of chicago

1045
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: and throughout the state AT Bbf Family, services Where i'm

1046
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 2: able to give back to the community with Mister joe

1047
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 2: gave to me Through loyola and working With laura and

1048
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 2: the things she did for me helped me. Create, also

1049
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 2: me And Jared adams helped me create life after.

1050
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: Justice even after.

1051
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 2: Her, work we continue to do it so we are

1052
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,479
Speaker 2: springboard off of what she. Did so what she has

1053
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 2: done for me is also paying it forward again and

1054
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 2: making things happen where you can help somebody. Else and

1055
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 2: that's what we don't do enough of in this, country

1056
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 2: in this. World were more worried about other activities around

1057
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,399
Speaker 2: the world when we really flat on our back right.

1058
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:48,919
Speaker 2: Here SO i just really appreciate the opportunity to say

1059
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 2: thank you and keep it going and keep calling me

1060
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 2: BECAUSE i don't mind. COMING i believe in the, work

1061
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 2: and this is WHAT i, love you, KNOW i love

1062
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: giving it. Back like you, said you, Know i'm. Inspired

1063
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 2: you KNOW i had a great. Mom i'm inspired by my,

1064
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 2: sister who you, KNOW i always say she talked too,

1065
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 2: much but then that particular time she talked at the

1066
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,919
Speaker 2: right time in order to meet Mister joe's, son WHO

1067
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 2: i think not enough but as much AS i possibly.

1068
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: Can i'm very, grateful and LIKE i, Said i'm.

1069
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 2: Blessed i'm blessed to be in this in this particular

1070
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 2: position Where i'm able to help other.

1071
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: People that's HOW i help. MYSELF i need to be an.

1072
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,439
Speaker 2: Angel i'm trying to learn, it you, know, so Mister,

1073
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 2: Joe i'm trying to learn how to be that example

1074
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 2: he would be proud of me to.

1075
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 5: Be, WELL i THINK i can say that he would,

1076
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 5: be And i'm sure he. Is and you are a

1077
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 5: great example of everything that's good and right about this.

1078
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 5: Cause and people like you are the strongest forces we

1079
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 5: have because the stories are just so incredible and so,

1080
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 5: powerful and SO i appreciate you being here and sharing.

1081
00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 5: THAT i KNEW i was going to learn. Something don't

1082
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 5: forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you get your,

1083
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 5: podcasts it really. Helps And i'm a proud donor to

1084
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 5: The Innocence project AND i really hope you'll join me

1085
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 5: in supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent

1086
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 5: future wrongful. Convictions go To innocenceproject dot org to learn

1087
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 5: how to donate and get. Involved i'd like to thank

1088
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 5: our production, Team Connor hall And Kevin. Wartis the music

1089
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 5: in the show is by three TIME oscar nominated Composer Jay.

1090
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,840
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