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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I've never told you production of I Heart Radio Today.

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Speaker 1: We are so excited, so so so excited to be

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Speaker 1: joined by someone whose voice you might recognize and if

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Speaker 1: you don't, you need to fix that right away. And

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Speaker 1: we're talking about past host of the show and all

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Speaker 1: around powerhouse, bridget Todd. Thank you so much for being

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to be here. What's

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Speaker 1: up y'all. I feel like I've missed checking in and

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Speaker 1: connecting with y'all both on the pod and I r L.

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Speaker 1: But I'm so stoked to be here. Yes, yes, we

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Speaker 1: have missed you too, and we've watched from afar at

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Speaker 1: all the amazing things you're doing. Um and then quarantine,

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Speaker 1: you know, really put a damper on the hanging out

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Speaker 1: in real time thing. But yeah, how are how are

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Speaker 1: you doing? Bridget I am. I think I'm doing just

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Speaker 1: as good as anybody you know. In this quarantine. A

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Speaker 1: lot of like really fun exciting trips to the kitchen

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Speaker 1: and to the couch, into the bed and then back again.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's been Wow, it's been a whirlwind. Okay.

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Speaker 1: I have to say though, as a person who does

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Speaker 1: follow you on the social media's I have seen you

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Speaker 1: travel and I've been very jealous of your nature travels.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, man, I look at her. She's going

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Speaker 1: here and there. Oh well, I have to say so.

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Speaker 1: So before quarantine, I like really had the travel bug.

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Speaker 1: I was lucky to work with an organization called Afro Punk,

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Speaker 1: which has like music festivals all over the world, so

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Speaker 1: I got to sort of come along to all different

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Speaker 1: kinds of fun places. But then Quarantine happened, and honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's been really fun to explore the domestic offerings of

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Speaker 1: like what's in like what's drivable, so kind of rediscovering

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Speaker 1: you know, Shenandoah in Virginia, or you know, the Husband

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Speaker 1: Valley in New York, or the Cats Skills places that

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Speaker 1: can drive to safely in camp at So it's been interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting to reconnect with the places that are not

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Speaker 1: too far away, right your local backyard. You're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: for good, these are nice little areas to hang out in,

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Speaker 1: and you do you make it look great. I'm like, oh, man,

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Speaker 1: like she's on another adventure. I'm gonna sit here on

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Speaker 1: the couch and just flip her photos and pretend like

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Speaker 1: I'm there my favorite pastime. What you don't see is

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Speaker 1: like all the mosquito bites and all the times I

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Speaker 1: had to poop in holes, the times I had to like,

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Speaker 1: you know, all the things, all the times that are

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Speaker 1: less glamb right right now, you do you make it

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Speaker 1: look good for real, for real, But I also do know.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I already know. Those bugs would be

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Speaker 1: on top of me and you would I would be

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Speaker 1: fighting with the animals. M M. I have a I'm

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Speaker 1: sporting a bunch of mosquito bites right now from a

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Speaker 1: I I can't tell you if this is a smart

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Speaker 1: thing or a very foolish thing I did, but I

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Speaker 1: followed a mysterious light into the woods. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: the intro to a horror movie, you know. For this well,

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Speaker 1: I could talk about horror movies all day with y'all,

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Speaker 1: but I suppose we should perhaps come back and return

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Speaker 1: to that. I would love to do an episode on that, um,

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Speaker 1: but we wanted to talk about your new show Bridget

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Speaker 1: which congratulations, it's awesome, thank you, Yes, absolutely called. There

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Speaker 1: are no girls on the internet. Can you tell us

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Speaker 1: about this show? I'd be happy to um. So essentially

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Speaker 1: there are no girls on the Internet really explores all

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Speaker 1: of us marginalized people who have experiences online. I think that,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm a woman who is what you might

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Speaker 1: call extremely online. I'm always on Twitter, always on social media.

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Speaker 1: For a time, I really enjoyed Reddit. Um, I'm not

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Speaker 1: on TikTok, but I sure enjoy you know, watching the dances.

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Speaker 1: And I think that as women, as folks of color,

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Speaker 1: as a black woman, I think that our experiences so

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Speaker 1: often go overlooked or erased online and that's a real problem.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's not to is the problem because we

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Speaker 1: you know, we need to if we want to have

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Speaker 1: a richer, fuller understanding of what makes the Internet great.

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Speaker 1: We want to be able to ensure that we're listening

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Speaker 1: to everybody's voice. It's a problem because of that, but

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Speaker 1: it also has like very very real world consequences when

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Speaker 1: we don't listen to women, black folks, other marginalized voices online. UM.

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Speaker 1: How I got the idea for this show. It really

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Speaker 1: was a couple of different things that all seem kind

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Speaker 1: of disparate, but I swear they, at least in my mind,

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Speaker 1: they interact for intersect, so the first was UM watching

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Speaker 1: all of these like really horrific acts of public violence.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about things like this attack on women in

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Speaker 1: Isla Vista, California, where this gunmen opened fire on a

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Speaker 1: on his college campus, specifically targeting women. UM In Glendale, Arizona,

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Speaker 1: a man live stream has attacked targeting couples like romantic couples.

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Speaker 1: In Toronto. Recently, a man uh went on a machete

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Speaker 1: attack that left the woman dead in Toronto and that

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Speaker 1: was like classified as terrorism. And something that these attacks

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Speaker 1: all had them common was that all of the perpetrators

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Speaker 1: had a very long and like documented history of online

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Speaker 1: hate against women, online extremism, things like being active and

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Speaker 1: like in cell communities online. Like that was like very clear,

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Speaker 1: and so many of these these instances, and I remember

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Speaker 1: thinking to myself, Huh, if only people had taken this

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Speaker 1: like very obvious hate against women being expressed online, if

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Speaker 1: only somebody had taken that seriously. Then I remember hearing about,

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Speaker 1: you know, all of these women, particularly feminists, like women

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Speaker 1: who identify as feminists, noting all of this like very suspicious,

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Speaker 1: dangerous behavior they were experiencing online, things like gamer Gate,

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Speaker 1: things like black feminists speaking up about you know, people

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Speaker 1: on four Chan trolls impersonating black women to sort of

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Speaker 1: like spread chaos and disinformation and confusion on online spaces.

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Speaker 1: And then I remember after the election hearing about a

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Speaker 1: Senate inquiry saying that like, yes, we now have confirmation

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Speaker 1: that you know, foreign agent were impersonating black people on

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Speaker 1: social media to try to sway at the election to

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Speaker 1: either get these voters to stay home or vote for Trump.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, Gee, if only somebody had listened to

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Speaker 1: these black feminists and these women when they were talking

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Speaker 1: about these experiences online, and and for me, for a

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Speaker 1: long time, it was just like these these sort of

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Speaker 1: disparate thoughts of like, huh, I guess nobody really listens

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Speaker 1: to marginalized voices when we speak up about our experiences online.

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Speaker 1: And at this time, in my own kind of you

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Speaker 1: know experience as a woman online, I really had to

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Speaker 1: sort of think like, well, what is my role in this?

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm someone I've worked at tech companies, I've

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Speaker 1: you know, been online since being online was like a

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Speaker 1: popular thing to do. But yet I really siloed my

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Speaker 1: own internet experiences as like, oh, well, yes I use Twitter,

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Speaker 1: and yes I make my living on the Internet. But

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Speaker 1: who am I to ask questions about tech policy? Who

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Speaker 1: am I to ask how these platforms operate? You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a person in tech. And I realized these things

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Speaker 1: were all sort of related, that the idea that the

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Speaker 1: experiences that I bridget was having online did not they

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Speaker 1: were just sort of compartmentalized and like, did not mean

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Speaker 1: that I was able to take up space in conversations

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Speaker 1: about the Internet or tech and all of the different

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Speaker 1: ways that not listening to marginalized voices and marginalized people's

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Speaker 1: experiences online, all those things to me, they all kind

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Speaker 1: of like equal up to an epiphany where I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, we're not listening to marginalized people when

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Speaker 1: they talk about their experiences online and it has real

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Speaker 1: world consequences. Um. And that's how I got the idea

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Speaker 1: for the show. I happened to be reading this book

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Speaker 1: by Claire Evans, who is this amazing um tech historian

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Speaker 1: who writes so beautifully about all the different women who

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Speaker 1: were integral to you know, technology and the Internet, people

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Speaker 1: like Aida Lovelace, Grace Hopper, and I thought, like, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, the Internet is actually kind of our domain,

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Speaker 1: like it wouldn't exist if if not for women, for

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Speaker 1: other marginalized people. So why why do we not have

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Speaker 1: a voice? Why do we feel like our our stories

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Speaker 1: need to be siloed or compartmentalized, or like they're not

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Speaker 1: listened to? And you know, connecting that too all of

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Speaker 1: the in real life consequences that not listening to women

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Speaker 1: and marginalized people online has I just thought, we need

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Speaker 1: to do something, we need to you know, right this

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Speaker 1: wrong and kind of reframe our understanding of the internet

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Speaker 1: and technology as a place where our voices matter and

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Speaker 1: we we have a right to take up space in

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Speaker 1: those conversations. And so that's really where the show was born. Awesome,

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Speaker 1: I love all of that. Um and and first of all,

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Speaker 1: bridget Uh, I remember being so impressed when you told

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Speaker 1: me about your experience on Wikipedia. So there's a part

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Speaker 1: of me that sees you as a techie, even how

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Speaker 1: you aren't, because I was so intimidated to do that.

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Speaker 1: When we did that episode, we were talking about how

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Speaker 1: women are missing from Wikipedia, and then we've talked a

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Speaker 1: lot about how when it comes to gaming, so many

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Speaker 1: of isn't, including myself, so many of us have just

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Speaker 1: put up with this vitriol like that's just a part

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Speaker 1: of it, or been turned away. Um. And how that

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Speaker 1: does lead to either people being silenced because they've left

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Speaker 1: or just yeah, like you said, not being listened to. Um.

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Speaker 1: So why why do you think that is? Why do

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Speaker 1: you think these contributions that do you have to me

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Speaker 1: what seems very clear real world implications and impacts, Um,

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Speaker 1: Why are they overlooked? I think it's a lot of things, right.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I think that in those industries, it's

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Speaker 1: the same kind of systemic barriers that women in marginalized

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Speaker 1: voices face in any kind of industry, right, whether it's gaming,

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Speaker 1: whether it's working for a tech platform, whether it's just

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Speaker 1: like a normal nine to five job. You know, our

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Speaker 1: our systems are not set up to allow for a

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Speaker 1: lot of marginalized people to feel comfortable and like not

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Speaker 1: just feel like they have a seat at a table,

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Speaker 1: but they can like actually meaningfully be involved in these conversations.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you look at the compute, like the

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Speaker 1: tech industry, things like you know, not having paid leave

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Speaker 1: or really crappy workplace policies that really keep women from

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Speaker 1: not just not just rising on the ranks of those communities,

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Speaker 1: but also like staying around, you know, like these policies

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Speaker 1: that end up pushing those voices out. And so if

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Speaker 1: you have communities where at the in the professional space,

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Speaker 1: women and other marginalized voices are not able to take

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Speaker 1: up space there because of these policies. The people who

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Speaker 1: do make those policies are going to like leave those

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Speaker 1: voices out. So they're gonna be designing policies that don't

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Speaker 1: take into account experiences like you have had any in

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Speaker 1: the gaming you know, in the gaming sphere, or experiences

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Speaker 1: that I've had online, Like people will be making policies

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Speaker 1: that do not account for those experiences because there the

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Speaker 1: workplace policies are not are hostile to those voices, right,

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Speaker 1: And so that's one. I also think the other is

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Speaker 1: really cultural, and I think it's like on us to

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Speaker 1: sort of combat And I think that is the idea

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Speaker 1: that things that happen on screens, whether it's on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: on Reddit, on a gaming device, whatever, that it's not

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Speaker 1: quote real life. I've definitely felt that way, right that like, oh,

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Speaker 1: whatever happens on the Internet is just happening on the internet.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't really have implications for the real world that

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Speaker 1: could not be further from the truth, right, Like, there's

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Speaker 1: an overwhelming body of academic research to suggest that things

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Speaker 1: that happen online can really translate to real world experiences,

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Speaker 1: things like you know, acts of public violence, things like

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Speaker 1: voting behavior and elections. You know, the more that we

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Speaker 1: silo these experiences and say like, oh, it's just the Internet,

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Speaker 1: the less we will be trained to understand them and

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Speaker 1: see them when they actually impact our real life behavior,

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Speaker 1: which we know they do. And so I think you

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Speaker 1: know this idea that like, oh, well, if someone is

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Speaker 1: being mean to you on your gaming device, just turn

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Speaker 1: it off. It's like, well, that doesn't really you know,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't really meaningfully address what's going on there. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And I I love how you talk about we've traditionally

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Speaker 1: thought of the realm of the Internet and tech um

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Speaker 1: as being this masculine thing, but in fact it is

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Speaker 1: women and marginalized people who have been running it. And

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Speaker 1: I remember this came up in our fan fiction episode

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Speaker 1: and yes, follow me here, UM because I love fan fiction.

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Speaker 1: I think it's of one of my favorite most beautiful things. UM.

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Speaker 1: And it's mostly written by women in marginalized people, young girls, UM.

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Speaker 1: And it's often derided even though they made these spaces,

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Speaker 1: they were the ones that like wrote the code, they

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Speaker 1: made it. They saw something that was missing and they

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Speaker 1: they fix it. Um. But we see that being ignored

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Speaker 1: and even articles afraid of it, afraid of people making

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Speaker 1: these space is and and writing fan fiction which TV

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Speaker 1: seems so harmless but is so therapeutic often. Um. And

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Speaker 1: so I guess if you could go more into and

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Speaker 1: perhaps you could use examples you've used on the show,

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Speaker 1: because you get amazing interviews on your show, um of

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Speaker 1: why the Internet is it? Should we should think of

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Speaker 1: it as a place where women and marginalized people are

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Speaker 1: really pioneering. It is our space. Absolutely. I'm glad that

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Speaker 1: you brought up the fan fiction episode. I think that's

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Speaker 1: a that's a I remember doing that episode, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's like a great example of what I'm talking about,

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Speaker 1: where we were the people who pioneered. You know that

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Speaker 1: the the internet, right, the Internet would not exist if

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Speaker 1: not for women and other marginalized voices. Right. And to

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Speaker 1: take that further, when you think of computers and their

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Speaker 1: integration into her everyday lives, women were there at every

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Speaker 1: at every turn, right, Like so like the way that

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Speaker 1: we have computers in the Internet and technology now, which

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Speaker 1: would not be a thing if if, if not for

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Speaker 1: our voices. And I think, you know, Claire Evans writes

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Speaker 1: about this in her book um that chronicles it's called

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Speaker 1: broadband get it, but in chronicles the Untold Story of

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Speaker 1: Women in the Internet. And really there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: marketing that went into our understanding of computers and computing

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Speaker 1: as like a male space. You know, all of these

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Speaker 1: computers commercials or software commercials in the eighties, there were

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Speaker 1: things like, oh, this computer is going to replace your

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Speaker 1: like nagging secretary, or this fax machine is going to

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Speaker 1: replace you know, your annoying wife or something like. All

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Speaker 1: of these ads go into shaping this understanding, this cultural

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Speaker 1: understanding of computers and technology as a masculine space, you know.

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Speaker 1: But that certainly was not the case. You know, in

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Speaker 1: World War Two, women were human computers. There was from

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Speaker 1: the movie hidden figures, like women who were actually acting

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Speaker 1: as computers themselves. That was seen as women's work, right,

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Speaker 1: like like that was really sort of like cast aside

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Speaker 1: as like all the women will do well, will crunch

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Speaker 1: the numbers. And it wasn't until after that that that

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Speaker 1: baton wasn't really passed to the next generation of women,

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Speaker 1: that we just allowed it to be thought of as

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Speaker 1: you know, a man's domain. And I think that what

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Speaker 1: the point that you make about um or the connection

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Speaker 1: to fan fiction, It's true, right, Like, not only did

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Speaker 1: we create technology in the Internet that's like our domain,

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Speaker 1: but also we're innovators, right, Like I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to generalize, but I feel like whenever something really

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Speaker 1: cool or really pop it is happening online, nine times

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Speaker 1: out of ten, there's a woman behind it. There's a

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Speaker 1: person of color behind it. There's somebody who was a

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Speaker 1: marginalized behind it. Right look at things like me too.

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Speaker 1: You know that was hard to buy a black woman

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Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter, that was harted buy three queer black women.

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Speaker 1: These things that like pop off and make the Internet

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Speaker 1: this like powerful, dynamic, awesome thing that we love being

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Speaker 1: on all that none of that stuff would exist if

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Speaker 1: not for us. And so you know, we have always

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Speaker 1: been these amazing digital innovat ters. Even when we are

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Speaker 1: pushed out, even when we are overlooked marginalized, we are

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Speaker 1: going to keep you know, showing up online and building

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Speaker 1: monuments and making cool stuff and building movements and shaping

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Speaker 1: the world online, and so I just think it's like

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Speaker 1: a really great story of like resilience of you know,

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Speaker 1: you try to overlook us, you try to bury us,

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Speaker 1: but we're still here, still like writing our own fan fiction. Still,

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Speaker 1: you know I do what I am is you can't

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Speaker 1: get rid of us, for sure. We have a lot

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Speaker 1: more of this conversation with Bridget, but first we're going

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Speaker 1: to pause for a quick break for work from our sponsors,

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Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you, sponsor. Let's get back into it.

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Speaker 1: But I like how you talk about how these women

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Speaker 1: who've created these hashtags and created these movements have been

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Speaker 1: pushed out, um. And that's kind of one of the

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Speaker 1: things that we've been talking about about erasure, all out

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Speaker 1: erature of trying to change history and take out the

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Speaker 1: people who are iconic and who created these movements. And

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Speaker 1: I know that in one of your episodes you do

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Speaker 1: talk to the woman who created the hashtag blackout Day,

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Speaker 1: which became a huge controversy because it got twisted and

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Speaker 1: again her whole reasoning and her whole idea behind it

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Speaker 1: started kind of being a race and being overtaken by others.

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Speaker 1: I'll say it that way, um, And I just kind

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Speaker 1: of wanted to if you could just talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about that, about how if you can in the

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Speaker 1: industry and in industries that are heavily influenced by social media,

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Speaker 1: what that looks like and how it impacts individuals when

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Speaker 1: we start to do things like a racier and not

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Speaker 1: recognize the actual reasons behind these creative movements. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: glad that you brought that up, so um a racier.

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Speaker 1: So in putting together this show, the thing that has

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Speaker 1: been like comes up again and again and again is

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Speaker 1: how voices are erased online. And you know, you could

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Speaker 1: start a whole movement, a viral movement online and people

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Speaker 1: not even know your name. Right. So the example that

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Speaker 1: you brought up, blackout Day, um, that was created by

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Speaker 1: this woman, mar Sebastian. She created it in her dorm room,

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Speaker 1: right like her and her and her friends, and it

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Speaker 1: just sort of took off and morphed, and people were,

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Speaker 1: you know, not crediting her. People were you know, hijacking

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Speaker 1: the movement that she built and erasing her, you know,

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Speaker 1: the creator from her own her own creation. And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, in in developing some of these episodes, I

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Speaker 1: see time and time again that especially with Black women,

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Speaker 1: it is assumed that things that we create online are

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Speaker 1: just for everybody, right, Like, oh, it doesn't matter who

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Speaker 1: created the hashtag. What matters is that people are hearing it.

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Speaker 1: That may be well and good, but then somebody is

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Speaker 1: you know, is creating the T shirt and getting the

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Speaker 1: money that says the hashtag that you created. Somebody is

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Speaker 1: going to go on the Ellen Show and like, you know,

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Speaker 1: when a scholarship or whatever for making this thing. It's

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Speaker 1: so interesting to me how easy it is for especially

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Speaker 1: Black women, to have our labor, our talent, you know,

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Speaker 1: taken and sort of cannibalized, and have us as creators

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Speaker 1: just being erased. And I think, I think that it's

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Speaker 1: a little bit complicated because I think as women, but

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Speaker 1: especially Black women, you don't want to seem ungrateful. You

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Speaker 1: don't want to seem you know, salty, you don't want

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Speaker 1: to seem like a hater or that you're you know,

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Speaker 1: complaining in public. But and so and so the temptation

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Speaker 1: can be just to say like, oh, I'm happy people

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Speaker 1: are are engaging with this thing I created, like I

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Speaker 1: love to see that it's getting so much attention, when

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Speaker 1: in reality it can really hurt like in that episode

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Speaker 1: about Blackout Day. The thing that really struck me about

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Speaker 1: Mars's story in creating Blackout Day was not that she

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Speaker 1: was like, I you know, I want the credit, me, me, me.

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Speaker 1: She was really hurt that something that she made, that

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Speaker 1: she was expected to be grateful, to be a footnote

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Speaker 1: on a movement that she started, you know, like and

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Speaker 1: having to grapple with that in public, and knowing the

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Speaker 1: implications for being like a black woman who has something

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Speaker 1: that's not super happy positive to say in public and

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Speaker 1: having to do it anyway, and like the the implications

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Speaker 1: of that. You know, I think these conversations are much

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Speaker 1: more complex than we than we realize. And then we

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Speaker 1: start digging and they're like, oh, there's a lot going

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Speaker 1: on here, right, And I completely agree. I think there's

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Speaker 1: just a whole other level that again we've we've talked

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Speaker 1: about before and you guys have addressed it before, but

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Speaker 1: the whole idea that in order to be successful or

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Speaker 1: in order to even be a part of anything, you

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Speaker 1: have to be grateful, um, and you have to show

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Speaker 1: instead of just being like I can own this, this

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Speaker 1: is my I did this, And that sounds like you're

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Speaker 1: being bittered over the tub, which by the way, is

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Speaker 1: an awful stereotype place on black women specifically, and when

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Speaker 1: they are like no, if any man did this and

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Speaker 1: they got they came out said this is mine, you

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Speaker 1: would all give him an award. As for me, you're

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Speaker 1: telling us to be quiet and sit back down because

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Speaker 1: you don't want to credit black women. You don't want

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Speaker 1: to credit women of color with the things that they

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Speaker 1: should be credited with one and first and foremost and

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Speaker 1: is celebrated because they are sharing it. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: just like mind blowing absolutely for me personally, I had

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Speaker 1: a lot of personal growth to do in that in

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Speaker 1: that department, and seeing other black women do that in public,

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Speaker 1: like like take ownership of their stuff in public, was

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Speaker 1: hugely helpful for me. I'm thinking about. You know, when

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Speaker 1: me Too first popped off, a lot of people credited

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Speaker 1: me Too, with Alissa Milano who definitely did like amplify

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Speaker 1: it and use her platform, but you know it was

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Speaker 1: created by Toronto Burke, a black woman, and watching her

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Speaker 1: say actually, I was the first person to say me too.

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Speaker 1: I created it because I've been working you know with

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Speaker 1: black women and girls who have been who are survivors

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Speaker 1: of sexual assault and rape for many years and this

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Speaker 1: was my thing watching her assert her creation and like

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Speaker 1: say like, no, this is my labor. I have done it.

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Speaker 1: Here's the receipts for how long I've been doing it,

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Speaker 1: how long I've been in this space. And watching people

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Speaker 1: say oh, okay, like that was hugely gratifying for me

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Speaker 1: and say like, oh, you can assert yourself and say like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is my labor. If you would like to use it, great,

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Speaker 1: but but you're gonna credit me, and you're gonna make

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Speaker 1: sure that you know it's being used in the spirit

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Speaker 1: of which it was created. Like watching that unfold was

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Speaker 1: like hugely personally gratifying, and so I want to I

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Speaker 1: want other people who listen to the show to say, like, listen,

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Speaker 1: it's okay to claim your labor, your talent, your time, whatever,

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Speaker 1: It's okay to own man and say, yeah, this is me,

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Speaker 1: this is all me. Feel free to engage in the

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Speaker 1: way that I'm comfortable with you engaging. But you're gonna

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Speaker 1: credit me, you're gonna pay me, you're gonna value me,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna amplify me, all of that, and that's it's

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Speaker 1: okay to do that. And I think for some of us.

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Speaker 1: Stepping into that truth is hard, but we're so lucky

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Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful to have other women like model that.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's hilarious because when you come down

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Speaker 1: to it is just deservedly getting what you worked for

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Speaker 1: and what you have earned. Is not asking for additions.

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Speaker 1: It's just getting what you earned. You you, as you said,

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Speaker 1: you have done this labor, So it's not like asking

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Speaker 1: more than anything else. Is no, just give me my

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Speaker 1: due as well as the fight that yes, especially now

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Speaker 1: as you were talking about in tech and in media

428
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: and in social media, finding space and for some reason,

429
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: and this has kind of been a thing for me

430
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 1: throughout my time. What stuff I've never told you is

431
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 1: trying to understand why there is an assertion that there

432
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: is limited space and that is not true at all,

433
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: and why that limited space is only contained for women

434
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: and most likely women of color. Oh my god, how

435
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 1: much time do you have? Right? Like? I think, like like,

436
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,719
Speaker 1: and again this was I'm only able to say this

437
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,479
Speaker 1: through like personal growth and like self work and seeing

438
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: other women and particularly women of color, model this in public.

439
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: But there's room for all of us. The scarcity mindset

440
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: is really rooted in you know, patriarchy and white supremacy

441
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: that says there can only be one, right, I guess

442
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: I'm if I'm a black podcaster, I can only I

443
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 1: can be like the black podcaster. And aren't I lucky

444
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 1: that it's me? I'm the chosen one? But actually it's

445
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 1: really lonely to be the only one. It's really lonely

446
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: to like, like, I don't want to rise up the

447
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 1: ladder if I can't bring my friends with me, right,

448
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 1: And so I never want to be someone's one. I

449
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: want to say, Okay, I'm the one, but I'm bringing

450
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: her her, her, her and them them them them with me,

451
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: and we're all going to make cool stuff together, right.

452
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: And I think this idea that you have to kind

453
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: of be looking out for number one is just really

454
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 1: rooted in this like scarcity mindset. And there's truly there's

455
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 1: a room for all of us. There's room for all

456
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: of our voices, and there should be. There should be,

457
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 1: and we should be elevating it. And I just don't

458
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: even understand this whole level of competing with each other.

459
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely what is this? Who who said this is

460
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 1: the way it's supposed to be? And we know who

461
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: said it and that's why it's wrong white men. You

462
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: said always yes, yes, Um, I guess sort of tangentially

463
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: related in in your fourth episode, you you explored how

464
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 1: in um, black women in Twitter fought back against there

465
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: was like this army of fake accounts that were impersonating

466
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: black women too, so discord online and and it was

467
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: really ugly and like clearly if to anyone and know

468
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: they were fake accounts. Um, but why why do you

469
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: think that they specifically impersonated black women? That's a good

470
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: question I would have to say. I mean, I hate

471
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: to say this. I think because they correctly sensed that

472
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: if they were to target black women, people wouldn't listen

473
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: when we spoke up. I think that you know when

474
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: that happened. So, um, this really amazing, Like like Twitter

475
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: power users speak Chepika Hudson who we speak to that epis.

476
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: So she essentially was seeing all of these like really

477
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: strange accounts mimicking black women. They had, they had avatars

478
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: of black women, and they were clearly trying to sound

479
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: like black women. But in that way that's like like

480
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,959
Speaker 1: you sound like someone in personating black woman. And so

481
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: you know, she did all of this work reporting it

482
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: to Twitter. It was in the media, it was in

483
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: the news, and Twitter just didn't do anything. And so

484
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 1: I hate to say this, but I think that they,

485
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: the people who were doing that, knew that if they

486
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: were to target black women, if and when those women

487
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 1: spoke up, people wouldn't care because our our voices are

488
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: just are just not listened to a lot of the time.

489
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: And what's really sad is that, you know, a few

490
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: years later election, those same exact tactics, a Senate inquiry

491
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: confirms that those same exact tactics were used to de

492
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: stabilize our election. Right, Like, it's it's confirmed. And if

493
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: only someone had listened, if only someone had said, hey,

494
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: we have all of these you know, sock puppet accounts

495
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 1: in personating people, maybe we should handle this. You know.

496
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: It was like it was like a like a online

497
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: disinformation test balloon that essentially showed them that like, oh,

498
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: if we target these communities, no one's gonna care. And yeah,

499
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: that same Senate inquiry confirmed that no other group was

500
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: targeted in the election by this kind of disinformation more

501
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: than black social media users. So clearly these people were correct,

502
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: and their assumption that if they targeted black people and

503
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,479
Speaker 1: black women specifically, people wouldn't listen when they when they

504
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: came forward. And you are someone who is on social

505
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 1: media a lot, and um, I was I was wondering

506
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: if you have seen sometimes I get this sense that

507
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: what you were speaking about earlier and how important it

508
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 1: was for you to see these role models claiming their

509
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: space and asserting, um that yes, this is my credit. Um.

510
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: And in my experience, I feel like the younger generation

511
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: is more they're doing that more. So I wonder if you,

512
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: being on social media, if you've noticed any trends like that,

513
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: And also, um, do you have do you have hope

514
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: that social media companies are listening to marginalized voices? Oh,

515
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: I actually really agree with you. I think that the

516
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 1: younger generation is definitely I don't know if they're just

517
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: smarter or savvier than than my generation or what, but

518
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: like when they put stuff out into the world, it

519
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 1: is branded right like they'll he'll have like a watermark

520
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: on us. There's no confusion about who made this, um.

521
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: So that's been really heartening to see. And then also

522
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: I think like community driven calls to credit creators. That's

523
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: a lot of C words, but you know what I mean. Right,

524
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: like you know, like I'm thinking of the girl who

525
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: created like a like a viral um the Renegade Dance Challenge,

526
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: which if you don't have TikTok, yeah, the TikTok Dance.

527
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: So that was created by a young black woman I

528
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: think in Atlanta, Atlanta very proud. Yeah, yeah, she's one

529
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: of she's one of y'all's um. But yeah, people have

530
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: to so like when her dance was going viral, at first,

531
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: that dance was credited with another TikToker who did like

532
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: like use her platform to like amplify it, but she

533
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: didn't create it, and people on social media really like

534
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: went hard to make sure that she got credit and said, like,

535
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: no, no no, no, she created it. If anybody is going

536
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: on Ellena should be her. If anybody's gonna get the

537
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: get the famous, should be her. And so I've been

538
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: really hurting to see the way that that the younger

539
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: generation falls back into community and they let their community

540
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: really ride for them in ways that I think are

541
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: really beautiful. Um, And there's not really a lot of

542
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: those voices being like, well, why do you care who

543
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: gets credit? You're so greedy or you're like just chasing

544
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: cloud or blah blah blah, No, no, no. I think

545
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: that the younger generation knows that these kinds of things

546
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: can be avenues to bigger platforms or whatever. And so

547
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: if somebody's gonna get cred, I guess it's not bad

548
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: to want credit for a thing that you made. UM.

549
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: So that's kind of really heartening to see. And then

550
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: to your question about social media platforms, I actually think

551
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: we are living in a time where social media platforms

552
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: are listening more than ever. UM. I In my other

553
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: professional life, I work with UM women's groups. I work

554
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: with a group called ultra Violet to um push tech

555
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: companies and platforms to be more inclusive. And we've had

556
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: a couple of big wins lately, you know. UM, we

557
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: had a great meeting with the heads of the platform

558
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: Reddit and they announced that they were going to be

559
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: banning some hate groups on their site and like making

560
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: some new policies and working alongside women's groups like ultra

561
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: Violet and UM other civil rights groups like like change

562
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: the Terms to think critically about their policies and their

563
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: platforms and how like whose voices they're amplifying and how

564
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: and like what is allowed and what is actually hateful

565
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: and like what to do about that? Um just I

566
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: think yesterday Twitter announced they were finally getting rid of

567
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: the account of David Duke, who is like known racist,

568
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: you know, they were finally going to suspend their account

569
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: for his account. So I would say that like now,

570
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: more than ever, I think social media platforms are starting

571
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: to wake up to the fact that a what like they're,

572
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: what they do, matters to people's lives. Right, Like this

573
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: idea that tech is neutral, tech is a political that's

574
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: not gonna fly anymore because clearly that's not true. And

575
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: so I think that's a really positive step. And I

576
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: also think that I think a lot of social media

577
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: platforms want to be better. They want to be leaders

578
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: and say like, hey, you know, I don't want to

579
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: be I don't want to be associated with the bad

580
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: actors of the world. I want to be I want

581
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: to be someone who makes the world a little better

582
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: online and makes the experience online a little better. So

583
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: I've actually never been as hopeful as I am about

584
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: the state of the Internet for marginalized people as I

585
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: am right now. So I do have because people were

586
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,479
Speaker 1: talking about being a political and that's that's not going

587
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: to be a possibility, especially as what we see today, um,

588
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: in the last four years, what do you see or

589
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: can you say to what we should be looking out

590
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: for as as we're understanding, hey, there things happening, but

591
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: there's things being done, whether it's behind your backs or

592
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: being sneaky, manipulative or for those who we should actually

593
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: be listening to. What do you say for us to

594
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: be looking out for out on social media? That's a

595
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: great question. I would say the number one thing, especially

596
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: as we head into an election which is now like

597
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: less than a hundred days away, The biggest thing I

598
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: have seen is missing the spread of misinformation and disinformation online.

599
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: You know. Um, one of the things that I'm really

600
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: interested and excited to explore on the podcast is how

601
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: misinformation and disinformation impacts marginalized voices. So, like Biden is

602
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: set to pick his running mate for VP any day now,

603
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: if that running mate is a woman, which it likely

604
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: will be, if she happens to be a woman of

605
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: color or a black woman, which is likely it maybe

606
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: will be, the kind of disinformation tactics that she is

607
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: likely to face will be highly racialized and highly gendered.

608
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: And so you know, I'm talking about things like deep fakes,

609
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: things like cheap fakes, where it's like maybe it's a

610
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: real video, but it's edited without the context and disseminated

611
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: to make a certain point um that was not actually made,

612
00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: you know, um, things like using wedge issue to hit

613
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: marginalized groups against each other. All of these things are

614
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: things that like all of us seem to be looking

615
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: out for online, but they are specifically weaponized against women

616
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: candidates and candidates of color in ways that white male

617
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: candidates just never have to face. And so I think,

618
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: you know, we're a country that doesn't even really like

619
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: to talk about race, right, We don't. We were not

620
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: comfortable with it, having conversations about it. We would rather not.

621
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: And I think that when we don't have those conversations,

622
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: we're not able to really see what's going on. We're

623
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: not even really able to talk about it. And so

624
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: particularly when it comes to misinformation and disinformation, we have

625
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: to talk about it. We have to learn how to

626
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: have conversations that are intersectional, that take into account how

627
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: these things impact marginalized people differently and and disproportionately. So

628
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: I would say definitely heading into the election keeping an

629
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: eye out for how disinformation and misinformation spreads on social

630
00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: media is going to be key. We have a little

631
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: bit more for you listeners, please stick around, but first

632
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: we have a one more quick break for word from

633
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsor. I've been

634
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: thinking a lot about how we UH. A long time ago,

635
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: we did an episode on cancel culture, and that's in

636
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: the news lately and a lot of misunderstanding around that, UM.

637
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: But how it is like social media being used is

638
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: one of the few ways we can hold people accountable,

639
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: and how these things like me to do get started,

640
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: and like people seeing well all these other avenues have

641
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: been denied to me and finding community that way, using

642
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: social media to find community that way, and to to

643
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: um call out people, and like right now in the

644
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: video game world, which largely avoided the me too movements,

645
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 1: somehow they should have really been up front like that's

646
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: finally happening. And then when you're looking at like UM,

647
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos, all of them in front

648
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: of Congress UH testifying and just all of these things

649
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 1: that it does feel like we're going through a massive

650
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: shift right now in terms of we need to take

651
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: a look at these rules and we need to to

652
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: change them. And and I'm I'm so thrilled to hear

653
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: what you said about Reddit and that these things are happening,

654
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 1: and that um, they're working, These tech companies and social

655
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: media platforms are working with the people who are most

656
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: affective and who have been ignored. Absolutely. Yeah, And I

657
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: think again, I think for a long time, I thought like,

658
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: oh well, who am I to have a like? Like,

659
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: I was a Reddit power user a few years ago,

660
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: and then I was like driven off of the platform

661
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: because of harassment. I just it was I had to

662
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: make an assessment of like is this I'm doing. I'm

663
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: a moderator on a subreddit, unpaid, I am dealing with

664
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: an incredible amount of harassment. The harassment was hurting, seemed

665
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: to creep into my real life. So it wasn't a

666
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: situation of like closed your computer. It was like it

667
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: seemed like people knew where I lived, that kind of thing,

668
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 1: and at a certain point I was just like it's

669
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: not worth it, and I was sort of driven off

670
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 1: the platform. I think that even with that experience, I

671
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 1: was like, oh well, who am I to like question

672
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg? Who am I to question? You know, the

673
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: the tech CEOs of the world. Where I'm at, I'm

674
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: out a code or I'm not a tech person, but

675
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: we all are. Like if you use the a lot

676
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 1: of most of us use the Internet in some form

677
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: every single day. You know, most of us are on

678
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 1: some social media platform every single day. Why shouldn't just

679
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: because we're not a code or a hacker or a

680
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: quote unquote tech person, why shouldn't these platforms be accountable

681
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: to us? Were the users? Right? Like, code is nothing

682
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 1: without people to use it, and we really we fuel

683
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,399
Speaker 1: so many spaces online and in tech. We they these

684
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: people have to be accountable to us, right Like when

685
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: I when I look back at my experience on Reddit,

686
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: I'm so sad that I didn't feel like I even

687
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: I'm so sad that I didn't even feel like I

688
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: could have a rightful voice about something that was happening

689
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: to me, something that I was experiencing. And so that's

690
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,479
Speaker 1: part of the reason why I wanted what I'm doing

691
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: this show, is because they want everybody to know that

692
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 1: you don't have to be, you know, a tech genius

693
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: or Mark Zuckerberg to have an opinion about the experiences

694
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: that you're having. You're the expert on your experience, right,

695
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: like Mark Zuckerberg can't tell you what you've experienced, you know,

696
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: And just because these people think that they're so smart

697
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: and powerful or what have you, doesn't mean that they

698
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: know better about your what you're going through. And so

699
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: I think, like, like really take feeling like you have

700
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: the right to take up space in conversations about the

701
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: Internet and technology. I think is is really important because

702
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: when we don't, we're not able to have these conversations

703
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: about our own experiences, and it can almost be sort

704
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: of like we Like, for me, I almost distrust did

705
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: what I what I knew deep down about what I

706
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 1: was going through that it wasn't right that like the

707
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: people who ran a platform should fix it, you know,

708
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: that it wasn't my responsibility to just like you know,

709
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: close the computer. I I should be allowed to feel

710
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: to feel safe on the internet, right, we all should,

711
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: and I think we have to do a lot of

712
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: cultural work at retraining ourselves to to feel okay, to

713
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 1: take up that space and to have that ownership. Okay,

714
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: So Bridget tell me this as a person who am

715
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: petrified of doing something wrong on social media, petrified and

716
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: coming from a little older generation, I was out there

717
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 1: on Facebook. Fards came out, Yes, that was me. Um,

718
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: what is some advice that you would give to someone

719
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: like me who were like, Okay, I need to be

720
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: able to learn to find my voice. But what does

721
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 1: that look like on a social media like outlet? What

722
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: does that look like for public consumption? That's such a

723
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: what a question? I mean, it's tricky, right, I would say,

724
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: what's helped me? You can only be on the internet

725
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: for so long before like you say something where you're like, oh,

726
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: I've relation have said that, so I've definitely had that experience.

727
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: But I would say, in my experience, as long as

728
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: you are online and you're thoughtful and you're like like

729
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: open and genuine, it's it's almost sort of hard to

730
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: make a big miss misstep, right, Like people might disagree

731
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: with you. People might say like, oh, well you don't

732
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: know about X y Z, and that's fine. But I

733
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: think for me, it's been about showing up online with

734
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 1: honesty and with with a genuine interest and like coming

735
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: from a good faith place, right because there are so

736
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: many people on the internet who are committed to misunderstanding you, right, like,

737
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: like they're not interested in learning about your opinion, they're

738
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: not interested in a good faith conversation. But those people

739
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: can go to hell. Don't even worry about them, right,

740
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: there's nothing that's there's nothing you're gonna be able to

741
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 1: say or do that's going to appease them. It will, they'll,

742
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: they'll they're like looking for a reason to misunderstand you.

743
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 1: They're willfully, you know, willfully going to do so. But

744
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: for a person like that, there's someone who is interested

745
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: in what you have to say, or who wants to

746
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: help you learn, or who wants to help you get better,

747
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: or like who was looking interested in having a good,

748
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: genuine conversation. So I would say, don't focus on the darkness,

749
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: the people who are just out there to make you

750
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 1: feel bad about yourself or to make you look foolish.

751
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: Focus on the people who are there to like, even

752
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: if you don't agree, who who are down for a

753
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: good faith conversation because they exist. And I want to

754
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: get to a place where on our platforms we hear

755
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: more from people like that and less from people who

756
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: just like want to ruin your day. And those those

757
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: people are not even worth your time, Like you're not

758
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: gonna convince them. There's like it's not worth the time.

759
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: Don't spend your energy, you know, even trying good advice

760
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: to write that I need to write that. I need

761
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 1: to write this down somewhere your laptop and also one

762
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: of these things, because I have been really the last

763
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: I know, it's feels like fifteen years, but I know

764
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: it's only like three months. Has been someone like a crazy, crazy,

765
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: crazy ride. When it comes to social media platforms, how

766
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 1: do you take care of yourself? How do you self

767
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: care being involved in that world? Because you're all up

768
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: in that world, and we're all up in that world

769
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: trying to be relevant in keeping up with what's happening

770
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: all over the country, and sometimes it's the best only

771
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: way honestly to get the truth is through things like

772
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: Twitter and seeing what's going on out there. Um, how

773
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 1: do you care for yourself? Oh? H I So it's

774
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 1: it's been easier at times in my life than others. Um.

775
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: One is definitely breaks from the internet. You know, I

776
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: I work online. That can be hard and it's definitely

777
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: a privilege to be able to say like, oh I'm

778
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: logging off of the week, um, but that's key. UM.

779
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: I have a friend Sabrina who hear from on the

780
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: podcast who has worked in digital human rights in places

781
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: like Syria where like the news is like really really tough,

782
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: And she said something really interesting to me, which is

783
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: that if you want to know peace, you can't be

784
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: plugged in, right, so, like when things are really scary,

785
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: you can't like if if you want to know peace,

786
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: you have to find ways to unplug. And she also

787
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: had good advice for me, which was like, you know,

788
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: trust that the updates that you need to get you

789
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 1: will get, So especially right now with coronavirus and the

790
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: racial unrest that we've seen all over the country, like

791
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: it can be really tough and you couldn't feel like

792
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: you need to get every single update, but you know

793
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 1: what difference will it make if you get every single

794
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: real time update. Just trust that that the updates that

795
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: you need to get you will get. You know, you

796
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: don't need to be plugged in to get the updates

797
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: that will actually make a difference for your understanding. UM.

798
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: And then I would also say just having having a

799
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: really strong offline community, right like, like I'm lucky that

800
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: I have a solid community that I see or I

801
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: used to I did see quite a bit before COVID,

802
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: but like I, I like to stay checked in to

803
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: my offline spaces, and that makes my online spaces that

804
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,959
Speaker 1: much richer when I know, like, okay, well, the people

805
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: who I who really ride for me and who I

806
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: really ride for they don't on a screen. They live

807
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 1: in my house, they live down the street, they live wherever,

808
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,919
Speaker 1: you know, and knowing that I can check in with them,

809
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,959
Speaker 1: and that they really you know, see me and ride

810
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: for me, and that I love the Internet. But it

811
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: will not be it will never be a replacement for

812
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: like going for a hike with my friend or you know,

813
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: going for a weekend with my with my girlfriends or something.

814
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: So really staying checked in with my offline community. And

815
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: then also I think this lastly, like not taking it

816
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 1: too seriously. This is serious stuff. You know, we're talking

817
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: about very real stuff. But you know it's I just

818
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: like keeping in a perspective is I think important for

819
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: me anyway, And that's really helped M Gonna write that

820
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: one down to full of good advice. Um, I guess

821
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: kind of going off of that, and and we've definitely

822
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: touched on some of the points to this. What do

823
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: you think is at stake here? Why is this so important?

824
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,919
Speaker 1: Why is it critical that we listen to marginalized voices

825
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 1: about their experiences online? Yeah, I mean I think that,

826
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: you know, not only is it important because we can

827
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: all have a better understanding of the Internet and all

828
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: of its ups and downs and all the things that

829
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: makes it great and not so great. We have a

830
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: much all of us have a much better understanding of

831
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: that when we make room for marginalized voices and the

832
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: full spectrum of identities that make being online what it is.

833
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: But then beyond that, these things do you have you know,

834
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: very real real world consequences, and so you know, from

835
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: the people that bring you your postmates or your instat car, like,

836
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: how are they being treated? If they got COVID, what

837
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: would happen to them? You know, how you vote? You know,

838
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: if Donald Trump is going to use Twitter to spread

839
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: election misinformation, that might impact how you're able to cast ballot. Right, Like,

840
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,720
Speaker 1: understanding all of these real world implications of what happens

841
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: online to people who are marginalized is so important. Um,

842
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 1: and it does have real world implications. And then would

843
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 1: also say, just again, it just that gives us a

844
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: better understanding of our world. You know, one thing that

845
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: has been really interesting and exciting to me from doing

846
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 1: this project is all the different intersections that come up online.

847
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: You know that my experience online is different than the

848
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: experience that someone might have who who has disabilities, or

849
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: who is indigenous, or who is trans right, Like, using

850
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 1: the Internet as a lens to understand all these experiences better,

851
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: all of these different identities better, I think is is

852
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 1: so critical. So yeah, just making sure that we're making

853
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 1: room for all of these voices and stories and experiences

854
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 1: that make up this you know, beautiful, messy tapestry that

855
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: is our online life. Y fan fiction is the perfect

856
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: back to beautiful world. It wouldn't exist if not for

857
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 1: the Internet. Yeah, okay, so we're so we're we gotta

858
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: you gotta come on the show so we can do

859
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: a fan fiction fan fiction Internet. You have, right. I

860
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: have said, I have long said if I had another podcast,

861
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: it would just be about fan fiction and I would

862
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: have ten listeners, but we would connect hardcore three parts

863
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: right here. Yeah, I mean that's what it's all about. Right,

864
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 1: We're all we're all looking for connection. We all want

865
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: to feel seen and heard and valued and listen to

866
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: and like even if it's just ten people, right, Like

867
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 1: we're all looking for that. That's what we're all looking

868
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: for online, and we would have a great relationship. Exactly,

869
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: very fulfilling. Um. Well, I will look out for that email,

870
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: bridget I am ready to go. I can speak at length. Um,

871
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: are there any examples you'd like to highlight before we

872
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 1: wrap up, or anything that you want to tease that's upcoming,

873
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: or anything that we didn't talk about that you think

874
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: we really should. We have an episode coming up on Tuesday,

875
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: which I'm really excited about it. I'm kind of I'm

876
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: on deadline for it, so I'm like procrastinating from that

877
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,439
Speaker 1: by being on this show. But it's okay, don't don't

878
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: tell Tarry no. But it's all about Um, you might

879
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: really appreciate this. It's all about the movie The Matrix,

880
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 1: and how the Matrix can be seen as an allegory

881
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: for the trans experience. So take a look. Let's take

882
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: a listen to that on Tuesday. Oh absolutely yes, I

883
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: am so into that. And and really it's it's an

884
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: awesome podcast. Listeners, go check it out. Thank you so

885
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: so so so much for stopping by and sharing with us,

886
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: bridget Um, where can the listeners find you? And and

887
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: this podcast. Well, you can find my podcast there are

888
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: no girls on the internet on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, uh,

889
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, or wherever you get your

890
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: podcast on. You can follow me on Instagram at Bridget

891
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 1: Marie in d C. That's b r I d G

892
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: E T M A r I E in d C

893
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: like the city, or on Twitter at Bridget Marie UM.

894
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: And yeah, you can find more information about our show

895
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: on tangodi dot com. And I hope, I I genuinely

896
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: hope people will check it out. And and also if

897
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: people have interesting stories of things that have happened to

898
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 1: them online or in tech, I'm openly like looking for

899
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: suggestions and soliciting ideas, So please please get in touch. Yes, yes,

900
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,879
Speaker 1: absolutely go do that. Listeners and Bridget thank you again

901
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: and you're welcome anytime. And also I'm coming. They're gonna

902
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: talk about yes please, yes, please. And Sam, you've got

903
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: to think of your like techie internet thing that you

904
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: that's sad. That's just gonna be me being sad and

905
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: saying all I like is dog photos and dog we

906
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 1: can find a great space. You had some pretty good

907
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: pager stories that I found in pagers. Remember the codes

908
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: one or like, what's so funny is I used the

909
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: pagre as of ten years ago for my government job. Ah,

910
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 1: my mom is a position and she still has a pager. Yeah,

911
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: she comes in to her first yep. Someone asked me.

912
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: They were like, are you okay? Because I had a

913
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: flip phone, a pager and then my actual smartphone. I

914
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,399
Speaker 1: was like, don't worry about it. You're like, I came

915
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: here from I'm a time traveler. I have deals going down.

916
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: Be quiet. I would be into this episode, is what

917
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: I'm saying. I would just be outdated technology. That's me.

918
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's a there's a space for that,

919
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 1: and I would. I would love to hear it. And

920
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: if you would like to reach out to us, you

921
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: can or email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at i

922
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 1: heeart media dot com. You can also find us on

923
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram and Stuff

924
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to your super

925
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 1: producer Andrew Howard. Thank you, and thanks to you for

926
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: listening Stuff I've Never Told You to protection If I

927
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit

928
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen

929
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows,