1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions ask if movies have 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 2: Hello Caitlin, Hello Jamie. 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 3: So, in spite of being my best friend, you haven't 7 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 3: talked to me in a month. Do you ever think 8 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 3: about that? 9 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 2: I think that is normal. I think it's also normal 10 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 2: that I didn't know about your wedding until just now, 11 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 2: even though it's four days from now. 12 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. 13 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 3: But we're best friends, and we know that we're best 14 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 3: friends because we are always saying it, and that's really 15 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 3: the only But we're best friends. Do we have chemistry? No? 16 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 2: No, I would say not no. 17 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 3: Do we know what's going on in each other's lives? 18 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: No, not even a little bit. 19 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 3: And I would bet Caitlin that you're probably sitting across 20 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 3: from your actual best friend right now. But the movie 21 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 3: we're in, we'll never acknowledge it, right, it's so wild. 22 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 3: George is her best friend, Like yeah, what? 23 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: And she does admit that at some point she's like, well, 24 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 2: my best friend these days and it's like yeah, and. 25 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 3: You're like, sorry, it's he's just your best friend. Like 26 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 3: you and Michael don't know each other. You guys are 27 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 3: horny chaos machines, and I wish you the worst. Welcome 28 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 3: to the Backdeor Cast. This is my best friend's podcast. 29 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 2: Oh wow. 30 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, and my name's Jamie Loftus. 31 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 2: Well, what if someone comes in here and tries to 32 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: break up this podcast because they're in love with us? 33 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 3: They want to make a podcast with us more? Oh wow? 34 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 2: Anyway, I'm Caitlin Dante. 35 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 3: And this is our podcast where we talk about your 36 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 3: favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens. And we really 37 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 3: have been dragging our heels on this one, but it 38 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 3: is a movie that simply begs to be discussed on 39 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 3: this podcast. 40 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: It sure does. 41 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 3: Okay, here's something that doesn't pass the Bechtel test before 42 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 3: we tell you what it is. As I was watching 43 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 3: this movie, I was thinking Shrek would be having none 44 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 3: of this. You know what I mean? What do you 45 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 3: mean killing Cameron Diaz is being mistreated the whole movie. 46 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 3: Shrek would be having none of this. Well, caught that 47 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: joke there. 48 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 2: Well, there's another Shrek connection too, because a construction a construction. 49 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 3: Wow, that's every dessert we ever have a delicious construction. 50 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: Rupert Everett voices Prince Charming. 51 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 3: Oh, Rupert Everett is a delight in this movie. I 52 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 3: think he's one of the movie's few high points. Now, 53 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 3: on the other hand, Dermott mulroney, I can't with. 54 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 2: This guy, This motherfucker. 55 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 3: He is a fucking dud. He is a dud. It 56 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 3: is He's just too much. He's not too much. I 57 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 3: wish he were more. I wish he were more. Yeah, 58 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 3: Dermott mulroney. I feel like this is not our first 59 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 3: encounter with Dermott mulroney, and it's just never been pleasant 60 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 3: for me encountering Dermott mulroney. 61 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: Who I'm gonna probably accidentally call Dylan McDermott because I 62 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 2: don't know the difference between those two people. 63 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 3: Dylan mulrony, I mean, and the names certainly don't help, right, 64 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 3: I mean, it is interesting whenever you watch rom coms 65 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 3: or movies you know, generally directed at or marketed towards 66 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 3: women and fems from any era. You have movie stars 67 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 3: who have endured, and then you have sort of like 68 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 3: the white guy flavor of the months who thirty years 69 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 3: from now, your daughter is like, who the fuck is 70 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 3: Dermott mulroney. Yeah, you know, like every generation has their 71 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 3: Dermott Mulroney's. What if he was a listener? Oh my god, 72 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 3: what if he was crying? 73 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure he's fine as an actor or whatever. 74 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: It's his character, that's. 75 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 3: I'm sure he's fine. I would issue a notes ap 76 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 3: apology if if I knew that this slander got to 77 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 3: Dermott mulroney. Yeah, I'd be like, I am so sorry, Dermott. 78 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 3: I didn't realize the power of my platform. 79 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: I mean, he's our biggest fan. 80 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 3: For all we know, we're in the top one hundred 81 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 3: movie podcasts, so and I'm assuming Dermot mulroney is listening 82 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 3: to all the hundred of them, so, you know, whenever 83 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 3: he gets around to this, my apology start. But boy, 84 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 3: what a flop character. I mean, although it did make 85 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 3: me laugh a lot because well no, wait, okay, what 86 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 3: is the Bechdel Test? 87 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 2: Gitlin? Oh right right. It's a media metric created by 88 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 2: queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test. 89 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,799 Speaker 2: It was coined as a goof first appearing in Alison 90 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: Bechdel's Dikes to Watch Out For in nineteen eighty five. 91 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 2: It has many versions. The version we use is do 92 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they 93 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 2: speak to each other? And is the conversation about something 94 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 2: other than a man? And we especially like it when 95 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 2: it's a narratively meaningful conversation. Right, So we'll talk about 96 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 2: that later, but in the meantime, I. 97 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 3: Have to say one more thing about Dermott mulroney. 98 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 2: Yeah. Please, Well, so this won't pass the Bechdel test. 99 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 3: No, it won't, it won't. No, I was just thinking 100 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 3: about it was making me laugh. The surface level similarities 101 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 3: that the Dermott mulroney character has to my own dad 102 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 3: in that he is a sports writer named Mike Yes 103 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 3: who sometimes struggles to emotionally connect. And I was like wow. 104 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 3: But also I was like, was my dad like a supervillain? 105 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,679 Speaker 3: Was he a dormt mulroney type. No? I did love. 106 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 3: I loved the detail that he worked at Sport magazine. 107 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 2: It was cracky. I didn't even notice. 108 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 3: I couldn't stop noticing it. I mean, it didn't come 109 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 3: up with that many times, but the first time I 110 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 3: was like Dormitt mulroney, you clown, you said sports wrong. 111 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 3: But no he worked at sport magazine. Because later, when 112 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 3: Julia Roberts is sending her evil email, ugh, she sends 113 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,799 Speaker 3: it to like editor in chief at sportmagazine dot com, 114 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 3: Like you're just like not sport magazine. Give me a 115 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 3: fucking right. I love fake movie companies. They're the best. 116 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, today we're. 117 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 3: Talking about my best friend's wedding, a nineteen ninety seven 118 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 3: movie about two people who like should really just like 119 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 3: they deserve each other. They deserve each other, get out 120 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 3: of here, you know, and let's let Cameron Diaz finish 121 00:06:58,279 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 3: college for crying out. 122 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 2: Wow seriously, Oh gosh. 123 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,559 Speaker 3: They had me rooting for a billionaire's daughter. This movie 124 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 3: had me in the trenches. 125 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: What's your history with the movie, Jamie? 126 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 3: So this is not a movie that I grew up with, 127 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 3: which is weird. I feel like I'm very hit and 128 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 3: miss with irrational attachments to nineties and two thousands rom coms. 129 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 3: Some I ride for. This is just not when I 130 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 3: ever watched growing up. So I didn't see it until 131 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, and I really did not 132 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 3: care for it. And I still I'm sorry for fans 133 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 3: of this movie. I understand objectively that this movie and 134 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 3: then reading a little bit more about the production history 135 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 3: of this movie made me at least appreciate what they 136 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 3: were going for a little more. But like, I don't 137 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 3: like it. I do think it is a like, on 138 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 3: its face, a subversive and fun idea for the movie 139 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 3: star of the movie to be playing the villain of 140 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 3: the movie in a rom com. That's a fun idea. 141 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 3: I'm on board for that. And it almost feels like 142 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 3: Julia Roberts like Olympics, to like play someone so deeply 143 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 3: hateable and still be so likable because due to being 144 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 3: Julia Roberts like interesting conceptually, but I just like it 145 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 3: just totally flopped so many things and even in a 146 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 3: lot of the contemporary criticism or you know, this movie 147 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 3: turned twenty five in twenty twenty two, so there were 148 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 3: some reflective essays on it, but I still don't see 149 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 3: people calling out Dermot mulroney's fucking character for being so like. 150 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 3: So I think that this movie was, you know, it 151 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 3: written by a very like probably one of the most 152 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 3: successful screenwriters of the twentieth century. Weirdly, but like, it 153 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 3: just doesn't come together. It just doesn't, and it doesn't 154 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 3: come together in a way that I found like pretty 155 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 3: confusing and aggravating and gross because for all of the 156 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 3: discourse that has apparently been going on around Julia Roberts 157 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,719 Speaker 3: and Cameron Diaz's character for twenty five years, which is interesting. 158 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 3: I also like that Cameron Diaz is presented as if 159 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 3: she's going to be the villain and then she's not 160 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 3: fun subversion, But it's the Michael character where he is 161 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 3: I think Barnunn the most evil character in the movie, 162 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 3: and there's like, you know, I've seen criticism of it, 163 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 3: but not the degree I was expecting to. Over twenty 164 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 3: five years later, it still seems to be like Julia 165 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 3: Roberts is evil and it's interesting because of the ending. 166 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 3: It is interesting because of the ending, but I still 167 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 3: feel like at the end of the movie, Michael and 168 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 3: Kimmy getting married is a terrible ending for especially Kimmy. 169 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 3: Like I found it so aggravating, aggravating because there were 170 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 3: moments where you're like, oh, maybe it's about to but 171 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 3: then it never does and it has no interest in 172 00:09:58,640 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 3: being critical of Michael. 173 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 174 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 3: I don't like it. I found it very frustrating because 175 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 3: there's elements of it that I thought should have been interesting, 176 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 3: and maybe under a more confident writing team, could have 177 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 3: been interesting. But yeah, I think ultimately a waste of 178 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 3: Julia Roberts's time in my opinion. Sure, what's your history 179 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 3: with this movie? 180 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 2: I similarly did not grow up with it. This movie 181 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 2: came out in ninety seven, and that was famously the 182 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 2: year Titanic came out, and so I didn't really have 183 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 2: time for anything else besides Titanic. 184 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, what else would you have been doing? 185 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: Even though Titanic came out at the very end of 186 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven, I cleared my whole year in anticipation. 187 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 3: You were getting so high. What else came out in 188 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven? I think it was like a kind 189 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 3: of fun movie year. Oh you know what, I take 190 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 3: it back. You know, you could have been seeing a Hercules, 191 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 3: you could have been seeing Disney's Hercules. You could have 192 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 3: been seeing Goodwill Hunt or something. 193 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: Sure, one of my favorite movies also came out in 194 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: ninety seven, which is the Full Monty. 195 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 3: Oh yeah. 196 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 2: But other than that, it's kind of a floppy ar 197 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 2: for movies. 198 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 3: I think my favorite Brother came out in nineteen ninety seven, 199 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 3: and so that's important. Okay, I just looked up nineteen 200 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 3: ninety seven movies and do you I don't know anything 201 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 3: about the movie. As good as it gets. 202 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 2: I've seen it several times. I'll answer you all your questions. 203 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 3: Do you like it? 204 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 2: It is not my kind of movie at all. 205 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 3: Okay. 206 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 2: So it's more that, like I acknowledge that it's probably 207 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 2: a good movie, or I know what's a movie people like. 208 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 2: But I am not a fan. 209 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 3: Personally, so I've never seen it. But I for some 210 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 3: reason had like the DVD cover is emblazoned in my mind, 211 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 3: maybe because it was just like on sale a lot, 212 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, yeah, that movie about Jack 213 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 3: Nickolson falling in love with a little dog. Because that's 214 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 3: the cover. I was like, what could that movie be about. 215 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 3: It's just Jack Nicholson looking absolutely in love with this 216 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 3: tiny dog. 217 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 2: Okay, here's what I remember. He hates that dog and 218 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 2: he puts it down a trash shoot. 219 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 3: This is the opposite of what I thought, as good 220 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 3: as it guests was about. I thought he loved that dog. 221 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 2: Okay, I'll do this as quickly as I can, but good, 222 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: this is gonna be a chaos episode. 223 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 3: Good good good. 224 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 2: So the dog, if I'm remembering correctly, belongs to Greg 225 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 2: Kannear's character, who is the neighbor of Jack Nicholson. 226 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 3: I didn't know he was in it. I thought it 227 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 3: was just Jack and the Dog. 228 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 2: No, and Helen Hunt is in it as well of 229 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 2: Twister Fame and Jack Nicholson. He's like a romance novelist, 230 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 2: but he also hates women. He's like super misogynistic. 231 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 3: Okay, funny because it's true. 232 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 2: And I think his neighbor is Greg Kannear and Greg 233 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 2: Kannear is gay. And I don't remember the relationship between 234 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: him and Helen Hunt. I don't know if they're friends. 235 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 2: I don't know the relationships. I don't remember exactly how 236 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 2: the dynamics work, but I think Jack Nicholson is in 237 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 2: love with Helen Hunt. And the reason I watched it 238 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 2: so many times is because the Jack Nicholson character has OCD, 239 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 2: but it's depicted in a very like Hollywood way. 240 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 3: Like touching the door knob kind of way. 241 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, like flipping on the light switches and things like that. 242 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 2: But I did a research project in high school on 243 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 2: OCD and I watched the movie as research. I hope 244 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 2: that I was like in the movie depicts it in 245 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 2: a way that's not necessarily very authentic for most people. 246 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: I don't know what I said. Who knows it was 247 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 2: the early two thousands, but anyway. 248 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 3: You can't be held accountable. 249 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 2: No point is he hates the dog and he tries 250 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: to kill it. 251 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 3: Basically, well, that's certainly not what I thought, as good 252 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 3: as it gets was about, and I will not be 253 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 3: watching it. 254 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 2: I don't think it's the movie for you anyway. 255 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 3: A disappointing movie overall in cinema, right, But okay, so 256 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 3: you were watching Titanic that year, We're not watching My 257 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 3: Best Friends by okay exactly. 258 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 2: And I also want to acknowledge that this is generally 259 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 2: a beloved movie. It was at the time. It was 260 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 2: well received by critics, it was a huge box office hit. Yeah, 261 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 2: people still ride for this movie. I don't want to 262 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 2: take that away from anyone. 263 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 3: No, you're wrong, but it's okay. 264 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 2: I think this is a rancid, little bastard of a movie. 265 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 3: I feel like we haven't like mutually ragged on a 266 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 3: beloved movie at a while. This is going to be thrilling, 267 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 3: and there are things I think that aren't necessarily redeemable 268 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 3: about it, but are interesting the various versions you pointed out. 269 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 3: A gay character is a character that is explicitly gay. 270 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 3: I mean, I still have notes, but same, you know, like. 271 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: There's some things, but overall, I'm just like kind of 272 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: tired of being asked to empathize with or root for characters, 273 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 2: especially awful men like Michael in this movie, who are horrendous, 274 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 2: and I don't want to do it. 275 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing, is like Jewels, I don't know, 276 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 3: like regardless of gender. I think it's the interesting gender 277 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 3: point is that we are rarely asked in the space 278 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 3: of any movie to this day to root for a 279 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 3: lead who is a woman and also is clearly in 280 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 3: the wrong and is being conniving and evil, especially in 281 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 3: this genre. Like I get it, that's interesting. Jewls never 282 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 3: won me over it, Like there was no I don't 283 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 3: know if it's like nineteen ninety seven there were people 284 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 3: who were rooting for her anyways, or if they were 285 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 3: just like it's interesting to watch, And I know that 286 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 3: there was like some cultural discourse over like people being 287 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 3: overly critical. We can talk about that in the production 288 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 3: area where they were like, if my daughter did this, 289 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 3: I would kick her out of my house. And you're like, 290 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 3: all right, relax, but yeah, being asked to root for 291 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 3: two horrible people in a romantic comedy in a love 292 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 3: triangle means the only character I like ends up with 293 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 3: someone horrible, and that is a non starter for me. 294 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 3: That's not why I come to this genre. I would 295 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 3: watch like an erotic thriller if I wanted to watch 296 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 3: a likable character get completely fucked over. 297 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 2: Well, I was gonna say, it's interesting that we're covering 298 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 2: this movie right after His Girl Friday, because they are 299 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 2: both rom coms that involve a love triangle, with one 300 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: character trying to you know, win back or steal their 301 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: ex lover from their current fiance. It's true, but I 302 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 2: think my best Friend's wedding is like almost less progressive 303 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 2: than His Friday, which is a movie that came out 304 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 2: nearly sixty years earlier. 305 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 3: I agree, I agree. I mean, you can listen to 306 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 3: our His Girl Friday episode. I just everything about that 307 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 3: movie just works for me better. It's at least in 308 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 3: part of performance thing because Dermnt mulroney, He's no Carrie Grant. Unfortunately, 309 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 3: I just yeah, if Julia Roberts can't win me over, like, 310 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 3: we've got a album at the base level of the movie. 311 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 3: You know so well, I guess let's talk. I feel 312 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 3: like people are but everyone's blood is boiling. They're like, 313 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 3: they don't get it. They don't understand the subversive nature 314 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 3: of nineteen ninety seven. 315 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 2: And maybe you're right, maybe you're right, who knows. Let's 316 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 2: take a quick break while we all mulleed over, shall we? 317 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 3: And we're back and we're freaking back. Wow. 318 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 2: Wow, it feels so good to be back. No, yes, 319 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 2: here is the freaking recap. Oh, okay, my best friend's wedding. 320 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:46,719 Speaker 2: All right, let's hear it. What do you got? We 321 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 2: meet Julianne Potter. She's played by Julia Roberts. 322 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 3: Doing one of my favorite things, which is having a 323 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 3: name so close to the actor so that they don't 324 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 3: get confused or scared. 325 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, she's like, I will only play characters with my name, 326 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 2: but maybe plus a few extra letters. 327 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 3: I know. I'm like, have some faith in Julia Roberts. 328 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 3: She can remember a second name, but they weren't ready. 329 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 2: No. She is a restaurant critic. Basically, she's the critic 330 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 2: from Ratatui. 331 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 3: I wrote that too. I was like, it's like if 332 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 3: the Ratatue critic was obsessed with my dad. Like, it's 333 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 3: such a weird movie for me. 334 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 2: She's in New York City, ever heard of it? And 335 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 2: she gets a phone call from her alleged best friend, 336 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 2: Michael O'Neill, who needs to talk to her urgently, and 337 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 2: she is at dinner with her friend. 338 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 3: George, her actual best friend, her. 339 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 2: Actual best friend played by Rupert Everett of Shrek Too Fame, Yes, 340 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 2: and Julianne tells him about how she and Michael had 341 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 2: this like hot month of romance back in college, although 342 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: she broke it off, but they stayed best friends and 343 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 2: they swore an oath that by the time they were 344 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 2: both twenty eight. 345 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 3: And then you're just like, oof. 346 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 2: If they hadn't yet gotten married to other people, that 347 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,719 Speaker 2: they would get married to each other, and you're like, 348 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 2: brutal twenty eight you. 349 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 3: Guys, you guys, even in nineteen ninety seven. It's a 350 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 3: bummer that feels, yeah, but again one of the subversive 351 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 3: things that like it maybe speaks to how binary gender 352 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 3: swaps of movie tropes rarely ends up creating anything progressive really, 353 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 3: because there's a lot of lines that Julia Robert says 354 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 3: that you would normally hear out of. I kept thinking. 355 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 3: I was like, oh, she's like doing Freddie Prince Junior 356 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 3: and she's all that kind of line reads where it's like, 357 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,959 Speaker 3: there's not a bet, but there is like these series 358 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 3: of deceptions that she is driving. At every single point, 359 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 3: she lies every word out of her mouth lie, So 360 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 3: she is the decepteur. Yeah, that doesn't make it. I 361 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 3: don't know. I just didn't. It didn't win me over, 362 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 3: but it is interesting, which is what we say about 363 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 3: movies that we don't like. 364 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 2: Uh huh. 365 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 366 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 2: Anyway, So she tells this to George and he's like, well, 367 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 2: what if Michael is calling you because you're both about 368 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 2: to be twenty eight and he wants to marry you. 369 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 2: And she's like, oh my god. So she calls him 370 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 2: back and she's like, te he remember that night that 371 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 2: we made the oath about getting married to each other. 372 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 2: And he's like, yeah, but I'm calling to tell you 373 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 2: that I met someone and she and I are getting 374 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 2: married this Sunday, four days away. 375 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 3: This movie is not shy to introduce a plaque contrivance. 376 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 3: That much is for sure, and it doesn't need to 377 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 3: make any logical sense with like what is happening or 378 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 3: what we're told. People's relationships are something that really bugs 379 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 3: me about this movie and a reason that his girl 380 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 3: Friday works for me in spite of very similar plot 381 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 3: dynamics where two out of three people are evil and 382 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 3: the nice person does get fucked over, but you understand 383 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 3: that the two characters who are evil have this like 384 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 3: unbelievable chemistry, Like so even when they suck, it is 385 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 3: at very least interesting to watch. But I feel like 386 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 3: we are only ever told that they're best friends, were 387 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 3: never shown why they're best friends, and so it's just 388 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 3: like impossible, or at least it was like impossible for 389 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 3: me on every viewing of this movie to get on 390 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 3: board with the fact that they're actually best friends because 391 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 3: they just feel so clearly not. And also he's trying 392 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 3: to cheat on his fiance the whole movie, the whole movie, 393 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 3: and they're like, Julia Roberts was really fucking You're like, 394 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 3: they're both fucked up. They should have ended up together. 395 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 2: They deserve each other. I kept getting hung up on 396 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 2: the logistics of the wedding stuff, because again, it's like 397 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 2: if you have a wedding generally unless you're eloping, which fine, 398 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 2: sounds like a great idea. 399 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 3: This is a billion dollar wedding. Literally, this is like 400 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 3: a rich guy's wedding, right. 401 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 2: So, Cameron Diaz's family, her character's family, are billionaires. 402 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 3: They own the Chicago White Sox, White Sox Wild. 403 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 2: Plus, like a media empire or something like that. 404 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 3: They own sport magazine, do they not? 405 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 2: Probably so she doesn't know about the wedding of her 406 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 2: again alleged best friend until four days until it's about 407 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 2: to happen. Would they have not planned this wedding many 408 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 2: many months in advance, if not years, spent all the money. 409 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 2: It would be a very opulent wedding. You would think 410 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 2: they're billionaires. Also, billionaires are obviously evil, horrid people, and 411 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 2: they don't like to mix class with other Like this 412 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 2: guy's a well, that's the fret working class guy, Like 413 00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 2: they would have like vetted the shit out of him. 414 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 2: I don't don't think they would have approved of the 415 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 2: Michael character. 416 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 3: I'm just like see I originally because I forgot the 417 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 3: like minutia of this movie, but I thought like he 418 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 3: was just inviting her really late because he wasn't sure 419 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,239 Speaker 3: if he wanted her there because he secretly loved her, 420 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 3: so I thought it was like a last minute invite. 421 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 3: You're like, well, that's kind of interesting. That could be 422 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 3: the source of conflict between the two of them. Why 423 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 3: didn't you invite me sooner? But then, yeah, what less 424 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 3: than forty eight hours before the wedding, Cameron Diaz has 425 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 3: not yet chosen a maid of honor, Like this is 426 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 3: and and you know obviously goes out and saying you 427 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 3: don't need a maid of honor. But this is a 428 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 3: very conventional wedding story. We're being given this character would 429 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 3: have a maid of honor, and the reason that we're 430 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 3: given she doesn't have one makes no sense. 431 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 2: She's like, I have no friend, she said, her maid 432 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 2: of honor fractured her pelvis. Yeah, she had one and 433 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 2: then she got an injury. 434 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 3: She had one friend she had and then her only 435 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 3: friend broke her pelvis, which just the way that Cameron 436 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 3: Diaz's character was written was so all over the place, 437 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 3: because it was like, why does this twenty year old 438 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 3: college student have not a friend to her name? If 439 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 3: we are told as the movie moves on, that she's 440 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 3: a very lovable person, Like, why wouldn't she have friends? 441 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 3: Of course she'd have friends if she's as nice as 442 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 3: we understand she is by the end of the movie. 443 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 3: It makes no sense rich people buy friends. She could 444 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 3: have bought am made of honor. It just doesn't mean literally, Yeah, 445 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 3: I don't get it, Like why and again, you're totally 446 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 3: I didn't even think of that, but like, yeah, how 447 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 3: restrictive you know, like this is like this rich family's 448 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 3: royal wedding or whatever. 449 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 2: Hm. 450 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 3: They wouldn't let her get away with no maid of 451 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,479 Speaker 3: honor till two days before. 452 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 2: They wouldn't have even let her marry this. 453 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 3: Guy, Like they shouldn't. 454 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 2: You know it? 455 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 3: Now I'm on the side. This is the other thing 456 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 3: that was getting frustrated, Like I keep siding with the billionaires, 457 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 3: where I was like, leave this sweet family alone. 458 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 2: Because is they're not written to be billionaires. 459 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,959 Speaker 3: No, they're written to be like middle class from the Midwest. 460 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 2: Right, They're not succession characters. 461 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 462 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 2: I don't think the writer of the movie like understood 463 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 2: what billionaires are like anyway. 464 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 3: Well, as we'll talk about, there were so many changes 465 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 3: made in this movie that I feel like stuff from 466 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 3: past drafts were just not updated to reflect with the 467 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 3: characters were supposed to be that or they're like rich 468 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 3: people they don't have a thought in their heads, which 469 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 3: can be very true. Yeah, but in this way, it 470 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 3: was like it maybe feel deeply sad for Kimmy the 471 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 3: way that like we're told, like, here is this woman 472 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 3: who it seems like is a very sweet person. And 473 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 3: then also in the like conventional power broker sense, has 474 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 3: everything going for her but has no friends. She's surrounded 475 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 3: by this wealthy family, none of whom have any interest 476 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 3: or insight into her interior life. Because as this whole 477 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,239 Speaker 3: emotional and he is like this pretty like fucked up 478 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: thing is happening to Kimmy, no one around her seems 479 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 3: to notice or care. And this is her beloved family. 480 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 2: Care that her fiance is forcing her to drop out 481 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 2: of college and follow him around the country. 482 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 3: That's something that like His Girl Friday, is more progressive 483 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 3: than that. Like it. You could listen to the episode, 484 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 3: but there was never a point where it's like the 485 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 3: idea that the lead woman and his girl his Girl Friday, 486 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 3: if you will Hildy Hildy, Yes, that Hildy was going 487 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 3: to leave her profession. The movie feels that's not right. 488 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 3: And by the end of the movie, you know whatever, 489 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 3: through some blah blah blah blah. Listen to the episode, 490 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 3: but she is returning to her career and she seems 491 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 3: happy with that. But that like that detail that Kimmy 492 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 3: is being forced to drop out of school because she's 493 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 3: twenty years old, and we are told she doesn't want to. 494 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: She doesn't want to at all. 495 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 3: And at the end we have no reason to believe 496 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 3: because Michael the character changes not a lick, not at all. 497 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 3: At least Julia. This is like, at least Jules. She 498 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 3: is despicable, she's horrible, she does only horrible things, but 499 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 3: at least she grows a little by the end, and 500 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 3: she has to apologizes. She admits false things that male 501 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 3: characters in her position almost never do. Whether you like 502 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 3: her or hater, I don't really like the character, but 503 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 3: at least she does grow By the end of the movie. 504 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 3: Michael stagnant. He's still gonna make his twenty year old 505 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 3: wife drop out of college, and it's just like I 506 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 3: hate this guy. Okay, sorry, we're at the beginning of 507 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 3: the recap. 508 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So after this phone call with Michael 509 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 2: where he tells her that he's met someone and is 510 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 2: getting married. This makes julian realize that she's in love 511 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 2: with Michael, and now she has four days to break 512 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 2: up his wedding so that he will hopefully choose. 513 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 3: Her stakes Steaks, Steaks. 514 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 2: Then we meet Michael. This is dormit. 515 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 3: He's crying again. Dermott our number one fan is crying. 516 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 2: Again, Dermit mulroney. And we meet his fiance, Kimmy played 517 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:20,959 Speaker 2: by Cameron Diaz, also of Shrek fame, who, upon meeting Julianne, 518 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 2: asks her to be Kimmy's maid of honor because of 519 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 2: the thing we just discussed of her original made of 520 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 2: honor being injured. And so they go to a dress 521 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 2: fitting together and then Michael walks in on Julianne in 522 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 2: her bra and underwear and he's like, oh wooga, hubba hubba. 523 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 3: And then you're just like I no matter what happens, 524 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 3: I will never like this character. Nothing will make me 525 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 3: like this character. 526 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 2: Nothing. She's visibly uncomfortable. He barges in, he doesn't apologize, 527 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 2: he stays, and then he hits on her. Meanwhile, well, 528 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 2: his wife in the future. It's like in the next room, 529 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 2: but because he expresses this like hint of attraction toward Julianne, 530 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 2: She's like, oh, okay, I got this. I can pull 531 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 2: this off. So Julianne decides to try to sabotage Kimmy 532 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 2: and Michael's relationship. Julianne tells him that she's super comfortable 533 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 2: showing affection now. She reminisces with Michael in front of 534 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 2: Kimmy to make her feel jealous and excluded. She takes 535 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 2: the couple to a karaoke bar to humiliate Kimmy because 536 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 2: she knows that Kimmy's a horrible singer. But her plan 537 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 2: doesn't work because everyone finds her horrible singing to be endearing. 538 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 2: Then something with Michael's job happens, and it's kind of confusing, 539 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 2: but as we said, he's a sports writer. And Julianne 540 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 2: orchestrates this plan and to convince Kimmy to get her 541 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 2: dad to offer Michael a job at his billionaire company, 542 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 2: which Julianne knows that Michael will be insulted by and 543 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 2: he'll think. 544 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 3: That, well, yeah, because he's her best friend, which we're 545 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 3: told every ten minutes or so to justify the whole 546 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 3: chasm of like no chemistry between these two actors. 547 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 2: Right, right, So he proceeds to act like the biggest 548 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,719 Speaker 2: asshole in this scene, which I want to unpack a 549 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 2: little bit later, but basically, he's screaming at Kimmy, being like, oh, 550 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 2: you think I'm not good enough? Blah blah blah. 551 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 3: This scene is awful, and I feel like it's made 552 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 3: out to be maybe a class issue, but it's not 553 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 3: a class issue. He's being terrible to her. He's berating her. 554 00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 3: He's telling her my ambitions are martin important than yours 555 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 3: and if you can't accept that, we can't get married, 556 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 3: and like you're just like this guy needs to be 557 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 3: put through a human sized shredder, and like I cannot 558 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 3: believe that he and we can talk about because it's 559 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 3: not that women did not have hands on this script, 560 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 3: as we'll get to, but the fact that this movie 561 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 3: was like written and driven by men is so obvious 562 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 3: because it's like, imagine a woman doing anything that Michael 563 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 3: does throughout this movie, they would be eviscerated. Like he 564 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 3: is worse than Julianne. But there is like nothing in 565 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,479 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety seven that I could find that was critical 566 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 3: of him. It was all critical of Julianne, who is bad, 567 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 3: but it's the oh god, he's so terrible in that scene. 568 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 3: I found it very upsetting because and also like Kimmi 569 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 3: is like crying, falling Julianne. This asshole is like sitting 570 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 3: to the side like ha ha ha, it's working, and 571 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 3: you're like, I hate you fucking clowns. You guys are clowns. Ah. 572 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 2: He's being emotionally andverbally abusive to Kimmy. 573 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 3: In public too. You're like, oh my god. 574 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 2: It's really upsetting. 575 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 3: I hate this character. 576 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 2: But this plan of Julian's also ends up backfiring because 577 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 2: Kimmy apologizes and groovels and said, you're right, I was 578 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 2: so wrong. We'll do things your way. 579 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 3: Horrible to watch because you're just like I think that 580 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 3: that is a combination of poor writing and like, I 581 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 3: don't think this is how it was intended, but like, 582 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 3: as someone that young in an emotionally abusive relationship like 583 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 3: that can happen, and it's presented in this very lighthearted 584 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 3: like I don't know, I just was very upset by 585 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 3: their relationship dynamic, like consistently. 586 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, And the scene ends with like, oh no, Julian's 587 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 2: plan was thwarted because Michael and Kimmy kiss and make 588 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 2: up and everything seems fine again. 589 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 3: Like I hope the bean falls on her. I hope 590 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 3: the Chicago Bean, which I don't even know if it existed, 591 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 3: then I wish it just uprooted and rolled over on 592 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,239 Speaker 3: her and crushed her and Michael too. What if they 593 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 3: got killed by the bean and that was the end? 594 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 2: God well, because like everything's fine between Michael and Kimmy. 595 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 2: What that actually means is that Michael will keep the 596 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 2: job that he has but still force Kimmy to drop 597 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 2: out of school. 598 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 3: Kimmy is still dropping out of school. Kimmy is still 599 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 3: being like I think, forced to move away from her 600 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 3: family something like that. 601 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 2: It reminded me of the first Twilight movie where Bella 602 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 2: the reason she moves to Forks, Washington is because her 603 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 2: mom gets that baseball player boyfriend and so he's always 604 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 2: going to be on the road and her mom wasn't 605 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:47,959 Speaker 2: going to be around because she was going to travel 606 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 2: with him. So Bella was like, I have to go 607 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 2: meet some vampires. 608 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 3: I don't know if we had the brain cells to 609 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 3: talk about it at the time, but it's like if 610 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 3: Bella's mom was in that secure of a relationship, like 611 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 3: I would have waited for my to graduate high school. 612 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 3: Come on, it's not an emergency, it's not a fire, 613 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 3: it's a minor league baseball boyfriend. Grow up anyways, grow up? 614 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 2: Okay. Then Julian's friend George shows up to help Julian, 615 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 2: and he's like, just tell Michael the truth, tell him 616 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 2: that you love him, and she's about to do that, 617 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 2: but then she sees an opportunity to try to make 618 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 2: Michael jealous by pretending to be engaged to George. 619 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 3: And now we have a classic dated contrivance where we're 620 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,280 Speaker 3: laughing because he's gay. 621 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 2: He's gay, right, And she goes along with this lie 622 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 2: for a while, including during a very long scene of 623 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 2: a rehearsal lunch where everyone is singing. I say a 624 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 2: little prayer by Deanna d'An warwick. 625 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,399 Speaker 3: Good for dann Warwick. I hope she got a fat 626 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 3: check for this movie. But like I mean, it has 627 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 3: no bearing on I understand why, Like it was like 628 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 3: funny and jarring at the time. As someone with no 629 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 3: nostalgia for this movie, I think that seems annoying and weird. 630 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 3: So long, so this movie is written by Ronald Bass, right, 631 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 3: very very famous writer, has won a lot of awards 632 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,879 Speaker 3: and written a lot of influential movies, some of which 633 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 3: we've covered, some of which we probably will have to 634 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 3: at some point. I'm talking Rainman, Sleeping with the Enemy, 635 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 3: The Joy Luck Club, Waiting to Exhale, Dangerous Minds, My 636 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,479 Speaker 3: best Friend's Weddings, Stepmoms, How Stella got her groove back, 637 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 3: like very influential writer who and the reason I say 638 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 3: that there were women's hands on this where he famously 639 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 3: had a small writer's room of younger women who would 640 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 3: work with him, who were called the Ronettes and the Ronettes, 641 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 3: which is like a whatever old timey motown joke. But anyways, 642 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 3: Ronald Bass, who was old of this, but he wrote 643 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 3: this movie in his fifties. The reason I think that 644 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 3: he was in some ways able to write contemporary is 645 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:06,720 Speaker 3: because he had young writers collaborating with him. I don't 646 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 3: know what the full deal with the Ronettes is. I 647 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 3: know that we've brought it up before. I know that 648 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 3: I've like talked about it on the show before. I 649 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 3: don't remember what movie we would have been it might 650 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 3: have been when Stella got her groove back, that the 651 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 3: concept of the Ronettes first came up. But anyways, this 652 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:28,800 Speaker 3: scene was a huge point of contention for the director PJ. 653 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:34,320 Speaker 3: Hogan and Ronald Bass and the Ronettes. Ronald Bass and 654 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 3: the Raetts were like, why do you want to add 655 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 3: a full musical number in the middle of a scene? 656 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,760 Speaker 3: And PJ. Hogan was like, trust me, it'll be awesome. 657 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 3: And ultimately, I mean, I guess audiences loved that scene, 658 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 3: but I think Ronald Bass and the raw Nets were correct. 659 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 3: I think I thought it was annoying. But I'm a 660 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 3: hater for this week. If I was enjoying this movie 661 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 3: and then that happened, maybe I would like it. 662 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 2: Maybe, But you're telling me that a family of billionaires 663 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 2: goes to a wedding rehearsal lunch at some red lobster 664 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 2: ass seafood restaurant, right, Burry the Kudahs. 665 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 3: No, Well, the thing is like speaks to how little 666 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,399 Speaker 3: we know about Kimmy. Because if I'm being generous, if 667 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,720 Speaker 3: they're a family that's like new money, right, and. 668 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 2: Like new money like Molly Brown. 669 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,720 Speaker 3: Molly Brown style, Mollie would go to a red lobster 670 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,879 Speaker 3: in spite of being very wealthy, So like, maybe they're 671 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,919 Speaker 3: a family that came from humble beginnings and then got 672 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,280 Speaker 3: a lot of money, but we never have enough insight 673 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 3: into the family to understand is this like old money 674 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 3: generational wealth? Like could this make sense? But I just 675 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,439 Speaker 3: found it weird for how many of these characters there are, Yeah, 676 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 3: Kimmy's I mean not like I was like, I need 677 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 3: to know Kimmy's family better, but even like a character 678 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 3: who isn't Kimmy that could better characterize this family vibe 679 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 3: wise would be really helpful because I just like can't tell. 680 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 3: I can't tell if like Kimmy is willing to go 681 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 3: into this marriage. I mean, I do believe that she 682 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 3: really loves Michael, but it's such an unhealthy relationship, and like, 683 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 3: I just don't understand why she is the way she is, 684 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 3: unless it's just like she seems pretty emotionally neglected by 685 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,359 Speaker 3: her family. But we're also supposed to be like they're 686 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 3: so funny because they're written like cartoon characters, especially like 687 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,320 Speaker 3: the weird Cousins or whatever idea What was going on there? Anyways, 688 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 3: Sorry that scene it's annoying. 689 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 2: So frustrating. Okay, So then George leaves and Julianne tells 690 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 2: Michael that she and George are not actually engaged, that 691 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 2: she had broken it off with George a while ago, 692 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 2: and so, you know, another lie. But Michael is like, well, 693 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 2: that's good because I actually got really jealous when I 694 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 2: thought you were going to marry George. And she's like, okay, 695 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 2: maybe this is working. Then Julianne and Michael are on 696 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 2: a boat together. The vibe is very romantic. They're slow dancing, 697 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 2: They're talking about their feelings and their past relationship. She 698 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 2: almost tells him that she loves him, but does not. 699 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,240 Speaker 2: Then the thing with Michael's job comes up again, because 700 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 2: this obstacle has to happen twice for. 701 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 3: Some reason I don't know where. 702 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 2: Julianne sneaks into the office of Kimmy's dad, Walter and 703 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 2: writes an email to Michael's current boss from Walter at 704 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 2: Sport Magazine at Sport Magazine, asking him to basically fire 705 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 2: Michael so that he'll accept a job at Walter's company. 706 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 2: But then julian decides against sending this email, but the 707 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,320 Speaker 2: email accidentally gets sent anyway. 708 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 3: This fucking plot as email, like it's so silly where 709 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 3: she I don't know how hard it was to x 710 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 3: out a window in or like to not save the 711 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 3: draft or like whatever. It's it's a very whatever. It's 712 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 3: very plotty, and I know that this movie is like 713 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 3: operating on farce logic, and so like when we put 714 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 3: it under a super close microscope, like it's supposed to 715 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 3: be a farce, but it's not working as a farce. 716 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 3: So all of these plot logic things stick out like 717 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 3: a store thumb. Why does the email stay open to 718 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 3: sport magazine? Come on? 719 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, well because she saves it for later. And then 720 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 2: Walter is, like, I had some email drafts I had saved, Hey, assistant, 721 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 2: send them all out, and that's how it gets sent. 722 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 2: But like I just have to move on, Okay. Yeah, 723 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 2: Michael finds out about this email that he doesn't realize 724 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 2: Julianne had sent. He thinks it's coming from his future 725 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,840 Speaker 2: father in law, and he thinks it was Kimmy's doing that, 726 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 2: like she put her dad up to this, and he 727 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 2: gets so furious that he calls the wedding off. But 728 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 2: nobody tells Kimmy's family that the wedding is off. So 729 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 2: Michael goes to the wedding brunch. I guess to handle 730 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 2: things face to face with Kimmy, although he decides he 731 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 2: will marry Kimmy after all, after a series of like, hey, Julianne, 732 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,759 Speaker 2: go be my messenger and like you go talk to 733 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 2: my future wife, and then like she's just lying back 734 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 2: and forth and I'm like, you're adults. Well Kimmy barely is. 735 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 3: But like, yeah, Kimmy, I would say, is she is 736 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 3: an adult. I don't want to like treat her like 737 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 3: her She. 738 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 2: Is an adult, but she's twenty, like her brain is 739 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 2: still developing. 740 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:41,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, Julia Rowerson, Dermott, mulroney. They don't have any such excuse. 741 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:48,839 Speaker 3: They're just grown people fucking around with a college student's 742 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 3: entire life and for what. 743 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:56,839 Speaker 2: For what? Anyway, it's decided that the wedding is back on. 744 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,800 Speaker 2: But then Julianne finally worked up the courage to tell 745 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 2: Michael that she loves him, and then she surprised kisses him, 746 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 2: which Kimmy sees, so she runs off. 747 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,239 Speaker 3: Right, And it's the rare surprise kiss where the surprise 748 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 3: element of it is of consequence, which I thought was interesting. 749 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, true, So now Michael is chasing Kimmy through Chicago. 750 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:26,399 Speaker 2: Julianne is chasing Michael. Julianne catches up with Michael at 751 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 2: the train station. Kimmy is nowhere to be found, and 752 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 2: Julianne confesses to writing that email, and so he's furious 753 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 2: and he's like your pus and pond scum and blah 754 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 2: blah blah. 755 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 3: But the way he's furious is still like flirtatious, where 756 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,320 Speaker 3: he's like you're piece Like it feels like a kink discussion, 757 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,319 Speaker 3: where it's like you're a piece of shit, You're a 758 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 3: fucking scum. You're just like, what is going on with you? Guys? 759 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 3: Just get on a train and go to hell. Like 760 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,400 Speaker 3: drive take the next Amtrak to the core of the earth. 761 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:03,680 Speaker 3: You fucking losers. 762 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:11,760 Speaker 2: I hate them U. Anyway, Julianne realizes that she lost 763 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,440 Speaker 2: right and that she needs to set things right, so 764 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:19,399 Speaker 2: she helps Michael to find Kimmy and they bring her 765 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 2: back to the wedding place, and the wedding happens. Michael 766 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 2: marries Kimmy, and then Julianne is at the reception. She's like, Wow, 767 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,720 Speaker 2: I did the right thing, even though for the past 768 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 2: ninety minutes I did everything wrong. And then she gets 769 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 2: a phone call from George who surprise is there at 770 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 2: the wedding, and then they dance and that's the end 771 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 2: of the movie. So let's take another quick break and 772 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:54,839 Speaker 2: we'll come back to discuss. 773 00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:03,399 Speaker 3: And we're back. Yeah, oh gosh, where to begin. Well, 774 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,320 Speaker 3: if it's okay, let's begin at the beginning, the beginning 775 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 3: of this movie. Moment one. I don't like it. The 776 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 3: beginning of the movie makes no sense to me. It is, 777 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,840 Speaker 3: you know, it is like a ViBe's kind of introduction. 778 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 3: But it's just like brides with bridesmaids singing, wishing and 779 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 3: hope and there's no it's nothing. It's about nothing, and 780 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,319 Speaker 3: it's presenting this very I mean, I guess you could 781 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 3: say it's presenting this very idyllic idea of like the 782 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,720 Speaker 3: white American bride, and that is like, sure, the rug 783 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 3: pull of this movie is that who we think is 784 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,319 Speaker 3: our heroine is not going to get that. But like 785 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,279 Speaker 3: I found that again, I just didn't like it. I 786 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:51,319 Speaker 3: didn't think it did anything. But okay, I wanted to 787 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:56,880 Speaker 3: offer context for this movie, and I say that with 788 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 3: also knowing that I think it's interesting. It doesn't really 789 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 3: change my opinion of the movie, but I do think 790 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,359 Speaker 3: it's interesting. This was published in Vulture. It is an 791 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 3: excerpt from a book called From Hollywood with Love by 792 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,480 Speaker 3: Scott Maslow. I haven't read it, but it is a 793 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,319 Speaker 3: book about the production and the subversive elements of My 794 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 3: best Friend's Wedding. It is interesting because I didn't realize 795 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,840 Speaker 3: another movie that's been on my to watch list forever 796 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,359 Speaker 3: is Muriel's Wedding. We've gotten a lot of. 797 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 2: Requests for it, oh many. 798 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,359 Speaker 3: And this movie was directed by the director of Muriel's Wedding, 799 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,959 Speaker 3: so he's also kind of mister Wedding. And I guess 800 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,360 Speaker 3: that he got this movie in part because Julia Roberts 801 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:48,560 Speaker 3: had really liked Muriel's Wedding. So he's an Australian guy 802 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 3: who directs movies about weddings. Something to know. This was 803 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,880 Speaker 3: a Ronald Bass script. He obviously was already very successful. 804 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 3: He'd want oscars. He's written all of these very successful 805 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,480 Speaker 3: movies with the raw question mark. And there is a 806 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,360 Speaker 3: passage in the story I think is interesting because it 807 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 3: does boil down what, at least on its face, was 808 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,400 Speaker 3: the versive about this movie at the time. So a 809 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 3: quote from the piece it's describing when PJ. Hogan got 810 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,040 Speaker 3: the script. When Hogan sat down to read the script, 811 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 3: he discovered, to his surprise that my best friend's wedding 812 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,279 Speaker 3: was a closer cousin to Muriel's wedding than he had expected. 813 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 3: What really surprised me was that it wasn't really very romantic, 814 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,680 Speaker 3: he says. In fact, my experience of reading the screenplay 815 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,600 Speaker 3: was Wow, I'm not sure I like her very much. 816 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,399 Speaker 3: And usually in romantic comedies, everything the main character does 817 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,360 Speaker 3: in order to win love and find happiness is totally justified, 818 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,200 Speaker 3: even if it's kind of awful. What Meg Ryan does 819 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,000 Speaker 3: to Bill Pullman in Sleepless in Seattle is kind of awful, 820 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,680 Speaker 3: And as I was reading it, I was thinking, God, 821 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,960 Speaker 3: it's that damn romantic comedy problem. She's kind of awful. 822 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 3: And I got to the end and she didn't get 823 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,920 Speaker 3: the guy, and I thought, oh my god, that's the point. 824 00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 3: This takes the form and smashes it on the floor. 825 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 3: Most romantic comedies are about how all fair in love 826 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 3: and war, which is something I've never really believed in. 827 00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 3: And this was a screenplay about how all is not 828 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,320 Speaker 3: fair in love and war. It was a romantic comedy 829 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,640 Speaker 3: that wasn't very romantic. I think that this is, on 830 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 3: its face, basically true, right, Like, yeah, I'd agree, but again, 831 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:22,240 Speaker 3: it just feels like every discussion I've seen of those 832 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:26,920 Speaker 3: elements of this movie are undercut by a lack of 833 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:32,160 Speaker 3: insight into who these characters really are, the tropes that 834 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,640 Speaker 3: do still appear, and the fact that I think that 835 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,360 Speaker 3: the male lead of this movie is just like irredeemably horrible, 836 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,719 Speaker 3: and so I like the fact that he ends. I 837 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:47,160 Speaker 3: would rather he end up alone, and like not ideal 838 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,239 Speaker 3: for Kimmy either way, but I would like a more 839 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 3: just outcome to this because I feel like, you know, 840 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,400 Speaker 3: Juliane ending up alone was perceived by audiences at the 841 00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:01,080 Speaker 3: time as wow, a sort of unusually just outcome to 842 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,319 Speaker 3: a romantic, high jinks kind of movie, for sure. And 843 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,520 Speaker 3: the other thing that I learned about the production from 844 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,240 Speaker 3: this essay was that they had to reshoot the ending 845 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,759 Speaker 3: more than once, and that test audiences. Originally there was 846 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,439 Speaker 3: a lot of pressure put on Ronald Bass to have 847 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 3: Julianne end up with someone, so every draft of the 848 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:27,600 Speaker 3: movie does end up with her not getting the you know, 849 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:32,360 Speaker 3: Dermott mulroney, okay, but the original ending had her meeting 850 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 3: oh my gosh, what's the guy from Sex and the 851 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:39,280 Speaker 3: City and My Big Fact Creek Wedding, John Corbett. Oh yeah, 852 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:43,239 Speaker 3: So in the original ending, John Corbett shows up and 853 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,879 Speaker 3: she meets John Corbett. She still calls George and she's like, oh, 854 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,279 Speaker 3: this sucks. I'm lonely, I lost the movie. And he's like, 855 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,640 Speaker 3: maybe there's someone awesome, Like George doesn't come to the 856 00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,160 Speaker 3: wedding at the end, she just meet the guy named 857 00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,799 Speaker 3: John Corbett. It kind of reminded me of the end 858 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,400 Speaker 3: of Five Hundred Days of Summer, another annoying. 859 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:07,280 Speaker 2: Movie about a villain who is positioned as the protagonist. Yeah. 860 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:08,880 Speaker 3: Yes, and at the end of that, you know, he 861 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:10,879 Speaker 3: meets a girl named Autumn and you're like, great, now 862 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:15,160 Speaker 3: he's gonna ruin were unto her? Like, yeah, So that 863 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,279 Speaker 3: was the original ending because there was a lot of 864 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,160 Speaker 3: pressure for producers of like it's Julia Roberts, she has 865 00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:24,320 Speaker 3: to end up with somebody, which is inherently sexist trope, 866 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,840 Speaker 3: but audiences. Test audiences hated that ending, which again is 867 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,680 Speaker 3: kind of complicated, but they were just like in a 868 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,520 Speaker 3: way that felt like maybe a little sexist as well, 869 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,840 Speaker 3: where they were like, this woman deserves nothing like, you know, 870 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,280 Speaker 3: maybe an over correction, but they didn't like the ending. 871 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:46,040 Speaker 3: And also in the original ending, there is never a 872 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,879 Speaker 3: scene where Kimmy stands up for herself. I guess that 873 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:55,120 Speaker 3: that baseball stadium climax was added, but audiences didn't like that. 874 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 3: Kimmy never advocated for herself the entire movie, so I 875 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,000 Speaker 3: guess that was because of poor test screenings that that 876 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,360 Speaker 3: scene was added, which I do think is interesting and 877 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,360 Speaker 3: says you know, how you feel about it. Good that 878 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,560 Speaker 3: are indifferent is up to you, But like does say 879 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,880 Speaker 3: something about nineteen ninety seven, like the things that people 880 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,879 Speaker 3: were responding to, because I think that like the scene 881 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,600 Speaker 3: where Kimy stands up for herself, it's not enough because 882 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,680 Speaker 3: it's still ultimately undercut by the plot of the movie, 883 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,319 Speaker 3: which I guess makes more sense once you know that 884 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 3: it wasn't originally there. But I am glad that that 885 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,080 Speaker 3: scene is there, you know, I just wish that Kimmy, 886 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:38,920 Speaker 3: Kimmy's character was able to recognize how this was not 887 00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:43,440 Speaker 3: the fault of one person that, like Julianne, certainly deserved 888 00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,719 Speaker 3: to have a new asshole riped for her. Fine, but 889 00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,680 Speaker 3: the fact that it is very much presented as like 890 00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,280 Speaker 3: Julianne's the other woman, and the other woman narrative always 891 00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,719 Speaker 3: erases any fault of the man that she's going back to, 892 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:03,799 Speaker 3: and so that scene was again I see what they 893 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,840 Speaker 3: were trying to do, but it's still like this movie 894 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,720 Speaker 3: just like doesn't work if you treat Michael as as 895 00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,759 Speaker 3: on the chaffing block for morality as Kimmy or Julianne is, 896 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,839 Speaker 3: but he's not. So it just yeah, but anyways, that's 897 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:19,720 Speaker 3: the production stuff. 898 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:26,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, very interesting. Shall we kind of go character by character? Yeah, 899 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:32,240 Speaker 2: let's set starting with I guess Julianne. 900 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:32,040 Speaker 3: Not Julia. 901 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:39,239 Speaker 2: Julianne, not Julia Roberts, no Julianne. She's presented as a 902 00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:40,640 Speaker 2: bit of a guy's goal. 903 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:41,560 Speaker 3: Definitely. 904 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, she's not like the other girls. She they spell 905 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,720 Speaker 2: this out in dialogue that she's not up for anything 906 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:53,560 Speaker 2: conventional or that's assumed to be a female priority, including marriage, romance, 907 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:58,000 Speaker 2: or love. She hates weddings. She's only cried three times 908 00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,400 Speaker 2: in her life. And I guess it. 909 00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, just like quality is frequently attributed to men, not 910 00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,480 Speaker 3: based in nothing comes from somewhere, but like being like, 911 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,600 Speaker 3: isn't it cooler? When it's a I mean, and it's 912 00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,680 Speaker 3: weird because I sort of, you know, not completely remembering 913 00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:18,640 Speaker 3: how the movie goes. Specifically, it's very weird that, like 914 00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,680 Speaker 3: Julia Roberts is presented as a guy's gal, and then 915 00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,840 Speaker 3: camer Diaz is presented as no one's goal, and so 916 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:29,600 Speaker 3: there's just not room for any friendships between women by design. 917 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,600 Speaker 3: Like it's so I thought that Cameron Diaz was going 918 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:39,919 Speaker 3: to be presented as a girl's girl, pejorative, but they 919 00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,720 Speaker 3: can't even do that. They're just like, for some reason, 920 00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:49,200 Speaker 3: no one likes this sweet, wealthy, conventionally attractive model. Everyone 921 00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,400 Speaker 3: hates her. You're like, what, what are you talking about? 922 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,600 Speaker 2: It's more just that she's so undercooked as a character 923 00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,160 Speaker 2: that there's no rhyme or reason to why she she 924 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,520 Speaker 2: doesn't have more friends. 925 00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:04,600 Speaker 3: I just feel so bad for you. I feel I'm 926 00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,760 Speaker 3: overreacting with Kimmy because I just feel protective of her. 927 00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:11,840 Speaker 2: Because she's also twenty and she's not even of legal 928 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:13,240 Speaker 2: drinking age, and she's. 929 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:17,200 Speaker 3: Still drinking her own wedding. This should not be happening. 930 00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,799 Speaker 3: No a plot contrivance that I felt neutrally towards. It's 931 00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,400 Speaker 3: just a rom com thing is that Julia Roberts is, 932 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,360 Speaker 3: of course a writer. Her love interests also a writer. 933 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,359 Speaker 3: Her actual best friend George also a writer. Does this 934 00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:37,320 Speaker 3: ever come into the plot? Are they ever seen writing 935 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:39,440 Speaker 3: other than one evil email? 936 00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:40,439 Speaker 2: No? 937 00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,080 Speaker 3: These are the jobs. There are three jobs these kinds 938 00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:50,319 Speaker 3: of people can have. Writer with infinite PTO is one 939 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,320 Speaker 3: of the jobs. And also her boss is taking PTO 940 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:55,520 Speaker 3: to do various hijinks. 941 00:53:56,000 --> 00:54:00,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, he flies from New York to Chicago twice in 942 00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,600 Speaker 2: a matter of two days. 943 00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,440 Speaker 3: There is no one I love in the world at once, 944 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,279 Speaker 3: sure to us, But that's because that's because in the 945 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,279 Speaker 3: original script he doesn't fly back. The second time. He 946 00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,720 Speaker 3: never comes back, and then Rupert Everett's character was testing 947 00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,360 Speaker 3: so well that's why they ended up deciding to bring 948 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,160 Speaker 3: him back, which I think is one of the more 949 00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,200 Speaker 3: effective subversive things that happens in the movie. Is that 950 00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:31,839 Speaker 3: like whatever that like, friendship can be just as fulfilling 951 00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,880 Speaker 3: a thing as what you're told you're supposed to be 952 00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:37,799 Speaker 3: doing at a certain stage in your life. And there 953 00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:42,440 Speaker 3: are other ways to find joy and fulfillment. And I 954 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:46,920 Speaker 3: appreciate that message, but it was added basically in post 955 00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,640 Speaker 3: like it was kind of there because people really liked 956 00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,280 Speaker 3: Rupert Everett versus anything else. 957 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:59,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, and back to the julian guy's girl only 958 00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:06,040 Speaker 2: has friends who are men, and then when she meets Kimmy, 959 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:10,600 Speaker 2: the rest of the movie hinges on. I mean, there's 960 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,399 Speaker 2: like varying degrees of what we see here where there's 961 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:17,399 Speaker 2: like the scene at karaoke where Julianne is like deliberately 962 00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,400 Speaker 2: being cruel to Kimmy and like trying to exclude her 963 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,640 Speaker 2: from the conversation, trying to make her feel jealous, things 964 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:28,440 Speaker 2: like that. Other times she's being more pleasant to her, 965 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:34,880 Speaker 2: but it's because Julianne is like conspiring and needs Kimmy's help. 966 00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,040 Speaker 2: But really she's just using Kimmy to try to get 967 00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,000 Speaker 2: Michael to hate his own fiance. Like there's all these 968 00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,080 Speaker 2: things that she does. Anyway you look at it, it 969 00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:49,640 Speaker 2: boils down to like this is a narrative about two 970 00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,719 Speaker 2: women who are competing against each other over the affections 971 00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:58,279 Speaker 2: of and looser exactly because there's that scene where and 972 00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,520 Speaker 2: this is understandable, but like, I mean not Kimmy's behavior 973 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,200 Speaker 2: in the scene where she like stops an elevator to 974 00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:09,040 Speaker 2: be like I'm jealous of you, right, but like she 975 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:13,480 Speaker 2: expresses that to Julianne, which I think is honestly like 976 00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,480 Speaker 2: an interesting thing. 977 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,160 Speaker 3: Right, I don't hate that, And I feel like the 978 00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,000 Speaker 3: way it was actually written and the way it's introduced 979 00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:22,759 Speaker 3: in the movie, I thought like the direction of it 980 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:26,560 Speaker 3: was weird, but like on its face, it's not something 981 00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,200 Speaker 3: you're expecting. Like, I feel like that was the first 982 00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:34,719 Speaker 3: indication that, like, Kimmy is smarter and more emotionally intelligent 983 00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:36,880 Speaker 3: than we are being encouraged to give her credit for 984 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,920 Speaker 3: because we're seeing all of these tropes she's young, she's friendless, 985 00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,160 Speaker 3: she's a bad driver because question mark like women, because 986 00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,560 Speaker 3: she's rich or a woman to strive, Like, I don't 987 00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,400 Speaker 3: really know what the joke was there, but like you know, 988 00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:54,520 Speaker 3: we're basically being thought like she's a spoiled brat, right, 989 00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,160 Speaker 3: and she doesn't even realize what's going on. She's a 990 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,840 Speaker 3: brainless Like I feel like they're just playing on blonde tropes. 991 00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,040 Speaker 3: They're playing on rich girl trubs, they're playing on young 992 00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,040 Speaker 3: woman trubes. And then they do bring that to a 993 00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:10,640 Speaker 3: screeching halt, and we know that Kimmy, of course she's twenty, 994 00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:14,640 Speaker 3: but she was not actually born yesterday, Like she does 995 00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:19,320 Speaker 3: realize that this is a weird dynamic and that her 996 00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,160 Speaker 3: asking Julianne to be her maid of honor is kind 997 00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,959 Speaker 3: of this over correction made out of insecurity, and she's 998 00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:29,040 Speaker 3: honest about that, which is more emotionally intelligent than the 999 00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:33,280 Speaker 3: other two demonstrate the entire movie where it's like, yes 1000 00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,760 Speaker 3: is admitting to I mean, it's kind of a confusing too, 1001 00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,400 Speaker 3: because it's like she's also not wrong. It's not like 1002 00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,480 Speaker 3: she's being paranoid or I don't know. But then that 1003 00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,640 Speaker 3: introduced like she is threatened by this other woman, which 1004 00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,479 Speaker 3: is such a frequent thing that like there are two 1005 00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,760 Speaker 3: primary women characters in this movie and they are pitted 1006 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,000 Speaker 3: against each other. And also in the world of this movie, 1007 00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,080 Speaker 3: that is true, like he is. 1008 00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:03,560 Speaker 2: Like emotionallyting on Kimmy with Julianne in several scenes. 1009 00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,840 Speaker 3: With the elevator scene, I think that, yeah, it was 1010 00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,920 Speaker 3: over the top, but at its core, what happens in 1011 00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,480 Speaker 3: that scene, I wish it had just happened in maybe 1012 00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:15,960 Speaker 3: a room, but it's a rob com. It had to 1013 00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,480 Speaker 3: happen in a stopped elevator while Julia Roberts was having 1014 00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:25,200 Speaker 3: a panic attack, But what Kimmy communicates there is pretty 1015 00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:31,840 Speaker 3: vulnerable and reasonable, and yeah, it just demonstrates like she 1016 00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,800 Speaker 3: can read the room like this is weird. And it 1017 00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,080 Speaker 3: is the scene that pissed me off the most is 1018 00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,880 Speaker 3: when I forget what they're on their way to, but 1019 00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,360 Speaker 3: like all three of them are in a car and 1020 00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:47,280 Speaker 3: then Julia Roberts and Dermott Maroney just get out of 1021 00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:51,440 Speaker 3: the car and go on a date. Yeah, and Kimmy 1022 00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,320 Speaker 3: feels weird about it. She's like, are you sure? Should 1023 00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:57,600 Speaker 3: we should we do this? Are you sure? And they're like, yeah, 1024 00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:59,880 Speaker 3: we're gonna go on a date, see you later, sucker, 1025 00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,800 Speaker 3: And I was like, what the fuck? Like I felt 1026 00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,120 Speaker 3: so horrible for her, where she clearly did not want 1027 00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:09,960 Speaker 3: them to and understandably did not want them to get 1028 00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:11,800 Speaker 3: out of the car and go on a date due 1029 00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:17,000 Speaker 3: to they were getting into a monogamous marriage the next day. Yeah, 1030 00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,720 Speaker 3: but then Dermot Moroney just goes on a date. Where 1031 00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:24,880 Speaker 3: are the essays about that? Because yes, yes, Julianne is 1032 00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:32,880 Speaker 3: being forty chess pto ratitudey critic, like she's being bad, 1033 00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,959 Speaker 3: she's acting out, but like Dermot Rammoni is not being 1034 00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:40,040 Speaker 3: dragged out of the car. He's like, yes, I would 1035 00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,000 Speaker 3: like to go on a date on this the evening 1036 00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:45,520 Speaker 3: of my marriage. Like he's being bad and he's being 1037 00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:48,760 Speaker 3: flirtatious the entire time they're together. 1038 00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:50,880 Speaker 2: Openly in front of her, his fiance. 1039 00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:55,360 Speaker 3: And her family, and You're like, a true billionaire family 1040 00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,439 Speaker 3: would have him killed. Yeah, Like they would just have 1041 00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:02,280 Speaker 3: him die under mysterious. They would chap aquittic him, like 1042 01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,360 Speaker 3: off of in the like Chicago river, he would get 1043 01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:10,600 Speaker 3: chap aquatic. Yeah, it's just so frustrating. 1044 01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:13,800 Speaker 2: The scene that really, and we already alluded to this, 1045 01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:18,480 Speaker 2: but just the worst thing I've ever seen is this 1046 01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,600 Speaker 2: is the scene where Kimmy pitches, oh, why don't you 1047 01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:25,280 Speaker 2: work for my dad? And the way he lashes out. 1048 01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:30,440 Speaker 2: He screams at Kimmy, accusing her of lying. He's like, 1049 01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,080 Speaker 2: why don't you start by being honest for one second? 1050 01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:34,440 Speaker 2: And she's like I am. 1051 01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:40,760 Speaker 3: You're like, excuse you? What about the rest of the table, right, And. 1052 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:44,520 Speaker 2: To Kimmy's credit, she says, what like, all of a sudden, 1053 01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:46,800 Speaker 2: I'm supposed to drop out of school, forget my family, 1054 01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,120 Speaker 2: forget my career, forget about all the things I had 1055 01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:53,400 Speaker 2: planned for my life, and he responds, well, forgive me 1056 01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:57,160 Speaker 2: for screwing up your plans. I'm just glad that I'm 1057 01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:59,280 Speaker 2: hearing about this before it's too late. What am I 1058 01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,680 Speaker 2: supposed to do with my life? Huh? I work a 1059 01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:04,840 Speaker 2: low paying, zero respect job, which I happened to love. 1060 01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:09,160 Speaker 2: And then Julianne tries to interject, saying like, hey, Michael, 1061 01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,200 Speaker 2: maybe this is actually a good opportunity for you, and 1062 01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,280 Speaker 2: he's like, oh, yeah, well, how come you never took 1063 01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,160 Speaker 2: some sellout job. That's it's because that's not you and 1064 01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:19,400 Speaker 2: that's not me either. 1065 01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:20,320 Speaker 3: Just say it. 1066 01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,960 Speaker 2: I'm not good enough for you, Kimmy, and she's now 1067 01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:25,920 Speaker 2: crying at this point. She's like, yeah, you ever said that? 1068 01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:30,600 Speaker 2: And she didn't, she didn't, and then he continues to 1069 01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:35,600 Speaker 2: lay into her. He's like, fine, I'm the sexist, insensitive 1070 01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:40,400 Speaker 2: asshole and it's like yeah, yeah, correct, And now Kimmy 1071 01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:45,480 Speaker 2: is bawling. She's pleading, like groveling at his feet, being like, 1072 01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:48,840 Speaker 2: you're so right. I was so wrong. We settled this, 1073 01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,000 Speaker 2: I renegged. It wasn't fair. You have to forgive me, 1074 01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,440 Speaker 2: blah blah blah, and it's just like no, Kimmy, like 1075 01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,200 Speaker 2: you started up like it's this started out in a 1076 01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:01,120 Speaker 2: way because she's again she's advocating for herself. 1077 01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:04,320 Speaker 3: Which was at Julianne's suggestion. Though too it was like 1078 01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:07,120 Speaker 3: it wasn't even really her idea to advocate for herself, 1079 01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:12,240 Speaker 3: which just sucks and is like how whatever inherently anti 1080 01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:16,880 Speaker 3: woman the character of Julianne is where she has no 1081 01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,560 Speaker 3: issue with like the only relationship we see her have 1082 01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:25,120 Speaker 3: with another woman is an attempt on her life. 1083 01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:30,240 Speaker 2: Basically, it's just so sad. It's so sad, so upsetting. 1084 01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,920 Speaker 2: And then this is followed by a scene where Julianne 1085 01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:36,680 Speaker 2: tells George how wonderful she thinks Michael is, and it's 1086 01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:38,960 Speaker 2: like if I saw my best friend, my quote unquote 1087 01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:42,760 Speaker 2: best friend speak to their fiance the way that Michael 1088 01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,080 Speaker 2: speaks to and treats Kimmy, I'd. 1089 01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:46,120 Speaker 3: Be like mortified. 1090 01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,840 Speaker 2: I have to get a new best friend because this 1091 01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:50,040 Speaker 2: person is evil. 1092 01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:52,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, And the fact that like the subtext of that 1093 01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:57,600 Speaker 3: scene is that this dynamic has been was like Julianne's idea. 1094 01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:01,320 Speaker 3: I feel like a lot of why the movie is 1095 01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:04,680 Speaker 3: encouraging us to think Michael is a good guys. First 1096 01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:06,400 Speaker 3: of all, because it was written and directed by men, 1097 01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:10,960 Speaker 3: but also because I feel like there's this implication that 1098 01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:17,040 Speaker 3: his emotionally abusive behavior is only happening because Julianne set 1099 01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,480 Speaker 3: him up to do that, and that's just like not 1100 01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:23,560 Speaker 3: how people work. Because the question that she quote unquote 1101 01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:29,480 Speaker 3: like tricked Kimmy into asking was not even irrational, like 1102 01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:31,880 Speaker 3: it was it was Julianne being like, oh, I know 1103 01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:37,919 Speaker 3: what will trigger my emotionally abusive friend's abuse tactics. Let 1104 01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,960 Speaker 3: me do that. And then she does and it happens, 1105 01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,560 Speaker 3: and she says nothing, and you're like, I hate her, 1106 01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:51,640 Speaker 3: and it's so miserable. It's miserable. I hate it. And meanwhile, 1107 01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:54,280 Speaker 3: like in that scene, Kimmy is once again being the 1108 01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:57,680 Speaker 3: only honest character in the movie, which also introduces kind 1109 01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:01,480 Speaker 3: of this dichotomy where Michael ends up with I don't know. 1110 01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:06,040 Speaker 3: It sucks because it's like Julianne is objectively an asshole, 1111 01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,680 Speaker 3: Like I don't think that, Like I think that some 1112 01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,480 Speaker 3: of the over the top reaction to her of like 1113 01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,800 Speaker 3: burn the Witch was like, well, no, no, let's not 1114 01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,720 Speaker 3: kill her. She's an asshole. I'm not like eager for 1115 01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,920 Speaker 3: her to have a reward for all of this bad behavior. 1116 01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:25,120 Speaker 3: But I feel like it also does introduce this like 1117 01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:30,080 Speaker 3: because there's no criticism of Michael, and he goes with 1118 01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:35,320 Speaker 3: like the woman who is more demure and more willing 1119 01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:39,479 Speaker 3: to bow to his will and like things that we 1120 01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,360 Speaker 3: know Julianne. Julian's not giving her career up for a guy, 1121 01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,960 Speaker 3: of course, not like there's nothing about her that would 1122 01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:50,600 Speaker 3: indicate that, but Kimmy will, and so that sort of 1123 01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:54,120 Speaker 3: makes her a like morally superior. Like it just felt 1124 01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:57,400 Speaker 3: like the things that Kimmy was willing to sacrifice, because 1125 01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:00,760 Speaker 3: she never ends up getting those things back, It is 1126 01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:03,760 Speaker 3: pulled into this idea of like what does a morally 1127 01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:08,040 Speaker 3: good woman look like in a way that feels really regressive. 1128 01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:12,600 Speaker 3: And again, like you're saying, like behind his Girl Friday 1129 01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:16,440 Speaker 3: that came out sixty years or so before this, and 1130 01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:21,720 Speaker 3: you're just like pretty fucking bleak, Yeah. 1131 01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:23,960 Speaker 2: Because the movie ends in a way that we are 1132 01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:29,720 Speaker 2: to assume Michael is making zero compromises. He's expecting his 1133 01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:34,640 Speaker 2: wife to make every compromise and we're all just supposed 1134 01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:35,800 Speaker 2: to be okay with that. 1135 01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:39,360 Speaker 3: I mean, it doesn't make anything that Hilly does to 1136 01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:44,600 Speaker 3: her por fiance who she's just like batting around like 1137 01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:47,440 Speaker 3: a fucking cat toy the whole movie. It doesn't make 1138 01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:51,040 Speaker 3: it less emotionally abusive, her like less shitty what she does. 1139 01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,800 Speaker 3: I think why it works is a number of things. 1140 01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:57,520 Speaker 3: First of all, the two assholes end up together, and 1141 01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:00,000 Speaker 3: good for them. She is not forced to give up 1142 01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:03,880 Speaker 3: her career and at least at very very lee. Also, 1143 01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:06,160 Speaker 3: all the performances are better, the direction is better, the 1144 01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:10,960 Speaker 3: script is better. This always helps. But at least you 1145 01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:14,720 Speaker 3: know the person who she's fucking over is an adult, 1146 01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:19,000 Speaker 3: you know, Like it does feel like ultimately, someone who 1147 01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:22,640 Speaker 3: has very recently become an adult is being forced to 1148 01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:26,800 Speaker 3: sacrifice their future for someone we understand to be an 1149 01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:31,640 Speaker 3: emotionally abusive, emotional cheater. But again, the thing with the 1150 01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:36,200 Speaker 3: surprise kiss, right, the surprise kiss and the whole George like, 1151 01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:40,000 Speaker 3: well did he kiss you back? Did he kiss you back? 1152 01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:41,720 Speaker 3: Which is the first time I've heard a surprise kiss 1153 01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:45,440 Speaker 3: interrogated on screen, which is interesting. But the fact that 1154 01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:49,280 Speaker 3: he doesn't kiss her back is made as a wholesale 1155 01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:54,520 Speaker 3: everything else he's done doesn't count because he didn't kiss 1156 01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,919 Speaker 3: her back, And you're like, that is just like ridiculous. 1157 01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:02,360 Speaker 3: That sucks. He's given such a carte blanche. I have 1158 01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:06,160 Speaker 3: another thought. You're ready. I'm sorry, I'm talking too much. 1159 01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:06,960 Speaker 2: No, I'm ready. 1160 01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:10,600 Speaker 3: This movie got me worked up. It got me pissed off. Okay. 1161 01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:14,200 Speaker 3: In defense of Julianne, Okay, I can't defend any of 1162 01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:18,480 Speaker 3: her actions, but something that I think is interesting. I 1163 01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:22,120 Speaker 3: noticed it where part of what is subversive about this movie, 1164 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:26,720 Speaker 3: and I think effectively subversive is that the villain is 1165 01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,760 Speaker 3: the main character, is the movie star, and is a woman. 1166 01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:32,360 Speaker 3: These are all things we don't normally see in a 1167 01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:36,520 Speaker 3: movie in this genre. True, Okay, I am glad that 1168 01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:41,480 Speaker 3: Julianne was like, had to confront the severity of her actions. 1169 01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:45,200 Speaker 3: I am glad that Kimmy, like we were talking about, 1170 01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,200 Speaker 3: it only goes halfway, because Kimmy is only calling Juliana 1171 01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:51,800 Speaker 3: out as if she is the only perpetrator here, when 1172 01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:56,400 Speaker 3: there are two people perpetrating this, and the more consequential 1173 01:07:56,440 --> 01:08:01,240 Speaker 3: person is about to ruin her life. But you know, 1174 01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:04,000 Speaker 3: I'm not upset that Julianne was called out for her behavior. 1175 01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,680 Speaker 3: I think that makes narrative sense. I do think that 1176 01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:11,360 Speaker 3: most men in that same role and position would not 1177 01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:15,160 Speaker 3: have to answer for this so severely, and I don't 1178 01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:18,360 Speaker 3: think that a man in this character's position would have 1179 01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:22,320 Speaker 3: to meaningfully apologize. I mean, like they have Julia Roberts 1180 01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:27,160 Speaker 3: on her knees being called the worst piece of shit 1181 01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:31,320 Speaker 3: who's ever taken breath, and like, as a rom com 1182 01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:34,760 Speaker 3: viewer seeing a woman in this position, for like, if 1183 01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:37,240 Speaker 3: not the first time, but one of the first times, 1184 01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:41,360 Speaker 3: it feels like, Okay, so if we're putting a woman 1185 01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:43,559 Speaker 3: in the villain role, she's going to have to spend 1186 01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:48,519 Speaker 3: the last fifteen minutes eating shit at unprecedented rates. Where 1187 01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:51,719 Speaker 3: you know, if you put Freddy Prince Junior, he's like, yeah, 1188 01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,080 Speaker 3: so I've been lying to you and that's why your 1189 01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:56,880 Speaker 3: life sucks. Do you want to be my girlfriend? Like 1190 01:08:57,240 --> 01:09:00,639 Speaker 3: my bee? I don't even really have a like moral thing, 1191 01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:03,040 Speaker 3: because I don't think that this character deserves to be 1192 01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,720 Speaker 3: let off the hook for what she's done. But I 1193 01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,920 Speaker 3: do feel like the reason that, or at least part 1194 01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,760 Speaker 3: of the reason that she we're really meant to sit 1195 01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:15,200 Speaker 3: in the consequences of her actions is because it's a 1196 01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:17,000 Speaker 3: woman in this role, right. 1197 01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:21,280 Speaker 2: And because women are expected to be morally upstanding and 1198 01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:26,080 Speaker 2: they're not allowed to misbehave, and just the standard for 1199 01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:31,120 Speaker 2: behavior for women is very different than it is for men. 1200 01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:33,720 Speaker 2: I also think it's interesting that the apology that she 1201 01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:38,840 Speaker 2: gives to Michael again on her knees, groveling, insulting herself, 1202 01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:44,440 Speaker 2: calling herself upon scumb blah blah blah, versus the apology 1203 01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:49,400 Speaker 2: slash acknowledgment of her behavior that she gives to Kimmy 1204 01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:54,519 Speaker 2: in the bathroom of the stadium is very different. She 1205 01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:59,599 Speaker 2: kind of doesn't really even apologize to Kimmy. She says like, yeah, 1206 01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:05,320 Speaker 2: I did all these bad things, but I lost, so okay. 1207 01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:09,360 Speaker 2: And then you're like Kimmy like no, forgives her and 1208 01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:12,200 Speaker 2: hugs her and she's like, oh my god, blah blah blah. 1209 01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:15,400 Speaker 2: But it's like a very different apology slash like a 1210 01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,760 Speaker 2: non apology that Julianne gives to Kimmy, and I think 1211 01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:22,720 Speaker 2: that she owes her a far more significant apology. 1212 01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:26,559 Speaker 3: I totally agree Kimmy is owed an apology by both 1213 01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:29,799 Speaker 3: characters in this movie. And we certainly don't see Michael 1214 01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:33,360 Speaker 3: apologize for anyway, and based on how he talks to her, 1215 01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:37,240 Speaker 3: he never will, right, And you're totally right, like the 1216 01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:42,439 Speaker 3: point of that scene being added was for Kimmy to 1217 01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:46,320 Speaker 3: stand up for herself in some way and for Julianne 1218 01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:50,720 Speaker 3: to be called out explicitly by the person who is 1219 01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:54,559 Speaker 3: hurting the most from this. But it's like Kimmy doesn't 1220 01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:57,840 Speaker 3: ultimately really get anything out of that scene. She does 1221 01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:00,240 Speaker 3: get to, you know, the catharsis of being like you 1222 01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:04,080 Speaker 3: fucking suck, which is true, and like you have publicly 1223 01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:06,640 Speaker 3: humiliated me on purpose in spite of the fact that 1224 01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:11,439 Speaker 3: I am a stranger and almost a child. And it 1225 01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:14,480 Speaker 3: works on paper, but yeah, if you think about the consequences, 1226 01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:19,280 Speaker 3: how does Julianne respond. She's mostly embarrassed that she's been 1227 01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:23,240 Speaker 3: humiliated like this. It doesn't feel like she's genuinely feeling 1228 01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:25,639 Speaker 3: remorse for what she's done. She's just upset that she's 1229 01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:28,840 Speaker 3: being yelled at in a bathroom and she's upset. And 1230 01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:30,880 Speaker 3: this is why I mean, And I don't know at 1231 01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,639 Speaker 3: this point, I really don't know how this character's being written, 1232 01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:37,960 Speaker 3: because this character's being rewritten. But I don't know if 1233 01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:42,599 Speaker 3: she really feels bad about what she's done or she's 1234 01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:47,519 Speaker 3: just embarrassed that she lost, you know, like HM. At 1235 01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:49,400 Speaker 3: the end of the movie. I do sort of get 1236 01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:52,880 Speaker 3: the feeling that like she has grown in that at 1237 01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:55,639 Speaker 3: the beginning of the movie she thought she could do this, 1238 01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:59,040 Speaker 3: and at the end of the movie she realizes that 1239 01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:02,640 Speaker 3: she couldn't. But I still am unclear. And again, this 1240 01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:05,200 Speaker 3: is like a valueless thing, like if you like Julianne, like, 1241 01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:08,240 Speaker 3: because everyone does fuck up, not like this, but everyone 1242 01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:10,360 Speaker 3: does fuck up. Like I feel like plenty of people 1243 01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:14,640 Speaker 3: have done things that they are embarrassed about in hindsight 1244 01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:18,160 Speaker 3: romantically right, sure, and sometimes it does involve hurting other 1245 01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:21,439 Speaker 3: people blah blah blah, rarely this bad, rarely this evil. 1246 01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:25,200 Speaker 3: I will say there is a change in her character 1247 01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:27,760 Speaker 3: from the beginning to the end of the movie, But 1248 01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:30,759 Speaker 3: by the end, I was just like, I cannot tell 1249 01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:33,720 Speaker 3: if she feels bad about what she's done or she's 1250 01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:37,000 Speaker 3: just embarrassed that she lost. I don't know, yeah, and 1251 01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:39,080 Speaker 3: I don't even think that like if at the end 1252 01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:41,479 Speaker 3: of the day she's like, I'm a little evil and 1253 01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:44,360 Speaker 3: I'm just pissed that I lost this round. Like I 1254 01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:46,160 Speaker 3: can accept that whatever. I don't need her to be 1255 01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:49,160 Speaker 3: morally perfect, but I just like it wasn't clear to 1256 01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:52,120 Speaker 3: me which it was, and Also, I'm like, right, she's 1257 01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:56,040 Speaker 3: supposed to be friends with Michael after this, absolutely not, 1258 01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:59,200 Speaker 3: you know, like I this is the last time she'll 1259 01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:00,000 Speaker 3: see either of these. 1260 01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:04,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. I wonder if this will affect her relationship with George, 1261 01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:10,200 Speaker 2: because George witnessed her be pretty awful to several people, 1262 01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:16,679 Speaker 2: And if he were any upstanding person, he'd be like, hey, Julianne, uh, 1263 01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:20,360 Speaker 2: maybe stop trying to break up a marriage. See. 1264 01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:25,320 Speaker 3: If I'm George, I would extort her for money. Hmm, okay, 1265 01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:27,599 Speaker 3: I would be like, you better not ever give any 1266 01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:30,880 Speaker 3: of my friends a bad restaurant review. You're wrapped around 1267 01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:33,080 Speaker 3: my finger. You're gonna give my friend Remy the rat 1268 01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:34,439 Speaker 3: the best review he's ever seen. 1269 01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:35,640 Speaker 2: Wow? 1270 01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:39,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, Rupert Everett, was he in Ratitui because he should 1271 01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:39,960 Speaker 3: have been. 1272 01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:44,200 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm not sure, But let's talk about George while 1273 01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:49,760 Speaker 2: we're on the yes subject. So he is a gay 1274 01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:54,280 Speaker 2: character and is played by a real life gay actor. 1275 01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:59,439 Speaker 3: A real life gay actor. Yes, Oh my gosh. 1276 01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:02,640 Speaker 2: Which is something that I found surprising for a mainstream 1277 01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,760 Speaker 2: movie in the nineties. First of all, that it has 1278 01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:09,120 Speaker 2: a openly gay character at all, and that they cast 1279 01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:12,280 Speaker 2: a gay actor to play that character. Because, as we've 1280 01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:17,160 Speaker 2: discussed on countless occasions in this era and obviously before, 1281 01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:21,840 Speaker 2: if there were gay characters present in a movie at all, 1282 01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:25,599 Speaker 2: they were often either the butt of a homophobic joke, 1283 01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:30,479 Speaker 2: they were written and performed using reductive stereotypes, they were 1284 01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:33,160 Speaker 2: not allowed to be explicitly queer, and they were just 1285 01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:36,080 Speaker 2: queer coded any number of things like this. All of 1286 01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:42,439 Speaker 2: that is generally avoided with the George character. However, you know, 1287 01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,680 Speaker 2: he's only there to serve the story of the straight protagonist. 1288 01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:50,040 Speaker 2: He doesn't have any romantic storyline of his own. 1289 01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:52,599 Speaker 3: No. Yeah, it's a very half step in the right 1290 01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:57,040 Speaker 3: direction where his character is adhering to some tropes and 1291 01:14:57,200 --> 01:15:00,800 Speaker 3: others not. I do think that he is. Ultimately he 1292 01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:04,439 Speaker 3: and Kimmy are the moral centers of the movie, and 1293 01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:08,679 Speaker 3: that George, I don't know. I mean, he's a little chaotic, 1294 01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:13,360 Speaker 3: right Like at certain points he calls Julian in to reflect, 1295 01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:15,080 Speaker 3: and then other times he's like, what if you did 1296 01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:18,880 Speaker 3: this convoluted email scheme? You know, Like so he is 1297 01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:20,760 Speaker 3: a little all over the place. He's flawed like any 1298 01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:23,200 Speaker 3: of us. And he does yes, like you're saying, have 1299 01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:28,759 Speaker 3: unlimited PTO to assist his straight friend in various nefarious schemes, 1300 01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:34,479 Speaker 3: which is another very trophy type of trope. But I 1301 01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:36,920 Speaker 3: agree that it is a I don't even know if 1302 01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,320 Speaker 3: it's a step in the right direction. Certainly unusual for 1303 01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:42,519 Speaker 3: the time that there is an openly gig character played 1304 01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:45,680 Speaker 3: by I. Actually I don't know that Rubert Everett was 1305 01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:49,760 Speaker 3: completely out at this time. I've seen different versions of 1306 01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:52,280 Speaker 3: the timeline, and I didn't want to pathologize about it, 1307 01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:56,320 Speaker 3: but he had played many gay and queer characters in 1308 01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:58,479 Speaker 3: the past. It was something he was known for. And 1309 01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:02,759 Speaker 3: he also, because of how gay actors are typed, played 1310 01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:05,680 Speaker 3: a lot of villains. So that was something kind of 1311 01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:08,920 Speaker 3: interesting about the casting process where I forget who it was, 1312 01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:11,759 Speaker 3: but someone was like, oh, Rupert Everett has to play George, 1313 01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:13,639 Speaker 3: and they were like, why he always plays a villain 1314 01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:17,640 Speaker 3: who dies, and they're like, listen, he has to play George. 1315 01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:20,439 Speaker 3: And then he ended up getting cast, and I think 1316 01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:23,800 Speaker 3: he is like very much a high point of the movie. 1317 01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:25,960 Speaker 3: There are all these trips. I mean, even at the 1318 01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:28,439 Speaker 3: beginning of that, like the thing that had me rolling 1319 01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:30,559 Speaker 3: my eyes the most outside of the fact that obviously 1320 01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:33,439 Speaker 3: the thing I'll say that's good is that we know 1321 01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:36,400 Speaker 3: he has a life outside of Julia Roberts, because we 1322 01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:39,280 Speaker 3: see him at dinner parties, he's throwing, we see him 1323 01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:41,280 Speaker 3: at events, we see him doing different things. But he's 1324 01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:43,000 Speaker 3: not allowed to have a relationship. 1325 01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:48,040 Speaker 2: Well, he mentioned someone is though he's talking about a partner. Yes, 1326 01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:51,439 Speaker 2: I forget the man's name, but he's referring to we 1327 01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:54,200 Speaker 2: never see him, right, or if we do see him, 1328 01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:58,000 Speaker 2: we don't realize that's his partner, because that's how underthought 1329 01:16:58,720 --> 01:16:59,519 Speaker 2: that relationship. 1330 01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,160 Speaker 3: I don't even think underthought. I think it's strategic about 1331 01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:04,479 Speaker 3: how gay characters could or could not be shown in 1332 01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:05,680 Speaker 3: mainstream movies. 1333 01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:05,800 Speaker 2: At that time. 1334 01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:07,920 Speaker 3: But I don't know, because you also think about the 1335 01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:10,439 Speaker 3: bird Cage came out around this time too. It wasn't 1336 01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:14,840 Speaker 3: like a time like nineties popular movies were kind of 1337 01:17:14,840 --> 01:17:17,920 Speaker 3: a crap shoot, We're about to cover Priscilla Quid to 1338 01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:22,080 Speaker 3: the Desert, like it wasn't verboten. But they're clearly I 1339 01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:24,680 Speaker 3: don't know if it's I'm assuming it's the studio, but 1340 01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,640 Speaker 3: like there clearly is a line like, well, this is 1341 01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:30,320 Speaker 3: as much representation as will allow. We would not allow 1342 01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:33,000 Speaker 3: a visible partner. 1343 01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:37,400 Speaker 2: Right, Certainly they can't touch or kiss. That would be no. 1344 01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:41,080 Speaker 3: The thing that like really solidified, like, okay, this movie 1345 01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:43,880 Speaker 3: has I remember George's character because he is one of 1346 01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:47,000 Speaker 3: the more fun characters, even though even Rupert Everett can't 1347 01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:50,559 Speaker 3: save how annoying I find the karaoke scene. Not the karaokes. 1348 01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:54,240 Speaker 3: Actually I like the karaoke scene with Camera Diaz, the 1349 01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:55,240 Speaker 3: Dean Warwick. 1350 01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:58,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, that scene the lunch singing the song. 1351 01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:01,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought that the Cameron de Has karaoke scene. 1352 01:18:01,240 --> 01:18:05,439 Speaker 3: He's very charming. Anyways, even though she should divorce him. 1353 01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:08,400 Speaker 3: I do feel like Kimmy is like sort of a 1354 01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:10,840 Speaker 3: future Real Housewives cast member. 1355 01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:13,080 Speaker 2: Okay, maybe five, like twenty. 1356 01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:16,800 Speaker 3: Years down the line. Anyways, Yeah, with George. The thing 1357 01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:19,120 Speaker 3: that really sold me on, like, Okay, this movie is 1358 01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:22,680 Speaker 3: not going to cross a certain line of representation. Is 1359 01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:26,040 Speaker 3: when in the introduction scene or no, I think the 1360 01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:28,600 Speaker 3: first time that she's in Chicago and he's in New 1361 01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:30,760 Speaker 3: York and they're on the phone, he says the word 1362 01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:35,760 Speaker 3: gay whispered while he's at home. He says, even though 1363 01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:40,800 Speaker 3: I'm you're like, you're at your apartment like that. That 1364 01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:44,559 Speaker 3: is the values of the movie. That's not you. It 1365 01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:47,600 Speaker 3: was just like, Okay, you can say gay but quietly, 1366 01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:50,200 Speaker 3: you know, and that's how this is represented. 1367 01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:55,240 Speaker 2: Unless he's like making a joke about how he's had 1368 01:18:55,280 --> 01:19:00,280 Speaker 2: to conceal that part of himself, I could maybe see that. 1369 01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:03,200 Speaker 3: I think that that's even likely, But I just feel 1370 01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:05,679 Speaker 3: like the representation of a gay character in this movie 1371 01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:11,840 Speaker 3: is gay but whispered instead of stated. But again, whispered 1372 01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:15,920 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety seven wasn't nothing, but it's still like, 1373 01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:19,000 Speaker 3: I mean, you can point to a number of successful 1374 01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:23,320 Speaker 3: movies around this time in the same genre that had 1375 01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:28,519 Speaker 3: openly gay characters in a relationship that did tremendously well, 1376 01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:30,599 Speaker 3: and we're very loved because The Bird Cage came out 1377 01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:33,840 Speaker 3: the year before this movie, So I think that it 1378 01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:37,439 Speaker 3: is still very like more than you're used to for 1379 01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:40,840 Speaker 3: the time, certainly, but also like this I think goes 1380 01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:44,880 Speaker 3: below the bar for even nineteen ninety seven in terms 1381 01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:48,880 Speaker 3: of representation, just because of the lack of a life 1382 01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:51,000 Speaker 3: that George has outside of it. I do like that 1383 01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:53,600 Speaker 3: he's kind of the moral center of the movie. I 1384 01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:58,240 Speaker 3: kind of like his and Julienn's relationship. I like that 1385 01:19:58,280 --> 01:20:00,599 Speaker 3: he's her boss. I like that he is like they're 1386 01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:04,599 Speaker 3: they're both a bit nefarious, but like they're just kind 1387 01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:08,439 Speaker 3: of trying to I don't know. I don't dislike their friendship. 1388 01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:10,760 Speaker 3: I think they'll stay friends forever. And I think he'll 1389 01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:13,160 Speaker 3: be like, this is Julianne. She's my friend who's kind 1390 01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:17,760 Speaker 3: of evil, you know, like when she goes to his 1391 01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:22,280 Speaker 3: wedding in the future, when it's legal, that will be 1392 01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:23,880 Speaker 3: her actual best friend's wedding. 1393 01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:28,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be like twenty eighteen or something. 1394 01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:30,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it'll be twenty fifteen and they'll be getting married 1395 01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:33,920 Speaker 3: in New York and she'll be like, oh, this is 1396 01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:36,920 Speaker 3: my best friend's wedding. Not that I want a sequel 1397 01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:40,400 Speaker 3: another version of this movie, I don't. Although this movie 1398 01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:44,360 Speaker 3: was I think adapted twice internationally, Like it was so 1399 01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:48,599 Speaker 3: successful that there was a I believe a Chinese version 1400 01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:50,840 Speaker 3: of it, and then one other one. 1401 01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:53,559 Speaker 2: Am I wait, I think there's a version that came 1402 01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:54,320 Speaker 2: out in Mexico. 1403 01:20:54,479 --> 01:20:57,120 Speaker 3: Yes, just a couple of years ago, in twenty nineteen. 1404 01:20:57,479 --> 01:20:57,679 Speaker 4: Yeah. 1405 01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:00,320 Speaker 3: So it is a very enduring thing. It was almost. 1406 01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:06,280 Speaker 2: A musical and a Bollywood movie was inspired partially, okay 1407 01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:07,280 Speaker 2: by this movie. 1408 01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:10,720 Speaker 3: So and I honestly, I mean as frustrating as I 1409 01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:14,360 Speaker 3: find this movie, it does feel weirdly old Hollywood in 1410 01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:19,879 Speaker 3: the internal mechanics of it. But unfortunately, having just covered 1411 01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:23,080 Speaker 3: his girl Friday, it might have worked better and more 1412 01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:26,640 Speaker 3: subversively a half century before it came out, because it 1413 01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:29,080 Speaker 3: was just doing nothing for me with nineteen ninety seven. 1414 01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:32,759 Speaker 3: This is not a plot that belongs in the age 1415 01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:36,760 Speaker 3: of computers. Yeah, there was almost a Broadway musical that 1416 01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:42,200 Speaker 3: came out, but Covid thwarted it. And yeah, I don't know. 1417 01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:44,320 Speaker 3: Do you have anything else to talk about for this movie. 1418 01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:48,400 Speaker 2: It's a very very white movie. Yes, people of color 1419 01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:53,920 Speaker 2: have nothing in terms of character or even spoken lines. 1420 01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:56,880 Speaker 3: And in all white New York and Chicago, which is 1421 01:21:56,920 --> 01:22:00,760 Speaker 3: a really a two hander for famously diverse cities that 1422 01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:02,439 Speaker 3: in this movie are only white. 1423 01:22:02,920 --> 01:22:07,800 Speaker 2: I was grossed out by the scene where Julianne they're 1424 01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:11,479 Speaker 2: in like the whatever like box at a white Sox game, 1425 01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:19,840 Speaker 2: and she's talking to Michael's teenage brother Scott played by 1426 01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:25,360 Speaker 2: Christopher Masterson, the brother of disgraced sex criminal Danny Masterson. 1427 01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:28,120 Speaker 3: Fun fact, Julianne is like. 1428 01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:31,120 Speaker 2: You have to dance with me at the wedding, and 1429 01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:33,720 Speaker 2: she holds him really close and It's just like, why 1430 01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:40,840 Speaker 2: are we normalizing adults being sexually suggestive toward teenagers. 1431 01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:43,759 Speaker 3: Which is objectively you know, give her take a couple months. 1432 01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:47,240 Speaker 3: What Michael is doing. He's marrying a twenty year old. 1433 01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:51,680 Speaker 3: I hate these I hate these freaks. They're freaks. 1434 01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:57,960 Speaker 2: Yes. The other quick thing was Kimmy describing her other 1435 01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:04,040 Speaker 2: bridesmaids as debutante sisters from Nashville who are basically vengeful sluts, 1436 01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:07,840 Speaker 2: which does pass the Bechdel test because she's describing them 1437 01:23:07,880 --> 01:23:08,320 Speaker 2: too well. 1438 01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:12,600 Speaker 4: I also clocked that to Julianne, which also again just 1439 01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:15,320 Speaker 4: speaks to the dissonance of Kimmy's character, because Kimmy at 1440 01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:17,439 Speaker 4: the end of the movie would never say that, but 1441 01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:19,599 Speaker 4: for some reason, Kimmy at the beginning of the movie 1442 01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:21,479 Speaker 4: would say that, because we're supposed to hate her at 1443 01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:23,920 Speaker 4: the beginning, and so she says awful things. 1444 01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:27,639 Speaker 3: And like, when there's no like this movie, I feel like, really, 1445 01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:30,400 Speaker 3: I don't like it on the first watch, But on 1446 01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:33,120 Speaker 3: the second watch, it's somehow even more frustrating because it's 1447 01:23:33,160 --> 01:23:38,120 Speaker 3: so obvious that really every character, but basically every character 1448 01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:41,200 Speaker 3: that isn't Julianne or Michael, are written moment to moment 1449 01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:44,559 Speaker 3: to serve the plot, and there's no consistency because I 1450 01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:48,880 Speaker 3: really don't think third act Kimmy would talk about people 1451 01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:51,759 Speaker 3: that way, like she's the sweetest girl in the world. 1452 01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:54,280 Speaker 3: By the end of the movie, she's flawless, which is 1453 01:23:54,320 --> 01:23:56,519 Speaker 3: another thing where it's like, oh, the person who deserves 1454 01:23:56,520 --> 01:23:58,880 Speaker 3: to get married is has to be willing to sacrifice everything. 1455 01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:00,439 Speaker 3: It has to have no flaw right. 1456 01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:06,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, one of the bridesmaids tried to give a 1457 01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:10,000 Speaker 2: blowjob to an ice sculpture and got stuck to it. 1458 01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:15,720 Speaker 3: That was me. I thought that was like, yeah, I 1459 01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:20,799 Speaker 3: don't have any like I just was like, weird, weird joke, 1460 01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:24,519 Speaker 3: weird joke. What are we supposed to think about? This family? 1461 01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:27,280 Speaker 3: Just kind of yet another moment of like what is 1462 01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:29,480 Speaker 3: this family like? Confusing? 1463 01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:33,240 Speaker 2: I don't know, but yeah, that's pretty much all I 1464 01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:37,320 Speaker 2: had to say. Yeah, the movie does pass the Bechdel test. 1465 01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:43,600 Speaker 2: It's in that aforementioned occasion and probably a couple other times, 1466 01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:48,080 Speaker 2: but not enough. But yes, yeah, because mostly it's conversations 1467 01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:51,920 Speaker 2: about Michael if Julianne and Kimmy are talking to each other, 1468 01:24:52,040 --> 01:24:57,840 Speaker 2: for example. But our nipple scale though, yees, where we 1469 01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:01,080 Speaker 2: rate the movie zero to five nip bulls based on 1470 01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:11,360 Speaker 2: examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I oh boy, again, 1471 01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:17,879 Speaker 2: I appreciate its attempts at subverting rom com tropes. Yeah, 1472 01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:22,240 Speaker 2: I generally appreciate that in a movie, because there's a 1473 01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:26,880 Speaker 2: lot of rom com tropes that should be subverted. But 1474 01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,920 Speaker 2: the ones that especially should have been subverted, such as 1475 01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:35,519 Speaker 2: the man being an awful person and ends up with, 1476 01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:38,720 Speaker 2: you know, the love of his life anyway, that one 1477 01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:42,320 Speaker 2: doesn't get subverted. And there's really no attention called in 1478 01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:46,680 Speaker 2: the movie to how heinous of a person he is. 1479 01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:52,160 Speaker 2: All of the attention is called to Julianne, and that 1480 01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:57,639 Speaker 2: feels gendered. So that's pepe poo pooh for me. Yeah, 1481 01:25:57,720 --> 01:25:59,400 Speaker 2: I think I'm only going to give the movie like 1482 01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:05,120 Speaker 2: a half nip. Yeah, and maybe it's because I just 1483 01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:07,920 Speaker 2: on a personal level don't like the movie, But I 1484 01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:13,679 Speaker 2: just I can't find that much that's redeeming about it, honestly. Yeah, 1485 01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:17,000 Speaker 2: maybe I'll bump it up to a one. No, I'm 1486 01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:21,040 Speaker 2: gonna stick with point five and I'm gonna split that 1487 01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:29,400 Speaker 2: half nipple between Paul Giamatti, Oh My movie and Harry 1488 01:26:29,439 --> 01:26:31,040 Speaker 2: Sheer who's in the movie? 1489 01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:34,800 Speaker 3: I was, yeah, I was watching this with Grant there. 1490 01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:38,000 Speaker 3: I said it, who I know? 1491 01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:39,840 Speaker 2: Do you have a boyfriend? 1492 01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:40,280 Speaker 3: I know? 1493 01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:42,679 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it's bad. 1494 01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:46,200 Speaker 3: It's bad. He's great, But yeah, it was we were 1495 01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:50,560 Speaker 3: both having a bad time, and the moment Paul Giamatti 1496 01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:52,479 Speaker 3: was on screen for less than a minute, it was 1497 01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:56,280 Speaker 3: like Grant took an audible sigh of relief. He was like, oh. 1498 01:26:56,439 --> 01:26:57,880 Speaker 3: I was like, oh, do you feel safe? Like he 1499 01:26:57,960 --> 01:27:02,519 Speaker 3: seemed to suddenly feel safe. But it is a movie 1500 01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:05,559 Speaker 3: that really made us both But like, I don't know, 1501 01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:08,559 Speaker 3: it's a movie that makes you feel hostage in the 1502 01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:11,599 Speaker 3: present day. So I'm also going to give it half 1503 01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:15,120 Speaker 3: a nipple. I appreciate the attempt and understanding a little more. 1504 01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:19,320 Speaker 3: I really appreciated the essay by Scott Maslow that sort 1505 01:27:19,360 --> 01:27:23,479 Speaker 3: of detailed what the attempt was. I just think, again, 1506 01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:27,479 Speaker 3: having women in the room does not guarantee you're going 1507 01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:30,280 Speaker 3: to get a better script, because people are people. But 1508 01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:33,360 Speaker 3: I cannot imagine a world where the script would have 1509 01:27:33,360 --> 01:27:36,000 Speaker 3: gotten worse with more women in the room, because I 1510 01:27:36,040 --> 01:27:39,559 Speaker 3: think you're right, like, the subversive elements are interesting, but 1511 01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:43,360 Speaker 3: they still ultimately fall victim to very gender tropes, which 1512 01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:47,280 Speaker 3: is that we are willing to inquire one character's villainy 1513 01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:50,880 Speaker 3: and not another's, and that just the whole movie unravels. 1514 01:27:51,360 --> 01:27:53,280 Speaker 3: The way Kimmy has written, I think is just like 1515 01:27:53,720 --> 01:27:57,160 Speaker 3: bad and does not like sells the character and the 1516 01:27:57,200 --> 01:28:00,439 Speaker 3: performance short. I don't even like Cameron Diaz as an actor, 1517 01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:03,240 Speaker 3: but I felt bad for her having to play this character. 1518 01:28:03,479 --> 01:28:05,760 Speaker 3: And Julia Roberts I do like as an actor, so 1519 01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:08,320 Speaker 3: I felt really bad for her having to play this character. 1520 01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:11,799 Speaker 3: And you know, Dermott mulroney as we you know, he's crying. 1521 01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:14,040 Speaker 3: We can't. I can't say another bad thing about him. 1522 01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:19,360 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm sorry dermltlrmalt uh. 1523 01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:22,320 Speaker 3: And again like if this is a movie you ride for, 1524 01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:24,280 Speaker 3: it's a movie you ride for. I ride for a 1525 01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:28,760 Speaker 3: lot of movies that don't hold up. But yeah, So 1526 01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:30,639 Speaker 3: I'm going to give the half nipple at this movie 1527 01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:35,840 Speaker 3: to Julia Roberts because I like her, and also I 1528 01:28:36,040 --> 01:28:38,880 Speaker 3: like that it was definitely a creative risk for her 1529 01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:42,880 Speaker 3: to take this part. She always played the uh you 1530 01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:45,519 Speaker 3: know young Angenou who won at the end. I think 1531 01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:48,000 Speaker 3: like her being willing to take this at the peak 1532 01:28:48,040 --> 01:28:51,360 Speaker 3: of her career was a very cool choice. Reading about 1533 01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:54,400 Speaker 3: the production you I learned that she was really committed 1534 01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:58,320 Speaker 3: to like moments where she was being encouraged by the 1535 01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:02,400 Speaker 3: director to seem more like she was like, no, what's 1536 01:29:02,439 --> 01:29:06,480 Speaker 3: written on the page is like in the karaoke scene. Specifically, 1537 01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:08,160 Speaker 3: I wish it was in the yelling scene. I would 1538 01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:09,760 Speaker 3: be curious to know what she thought about that. But 1539 01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:12,160 Speaker 3: like in the karaoke scene, I guess she was being 1540 01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:15,120 Speaker 3: encouraged by I don't know if it's a director or producer, 1541 01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:17,559 Speaker 3: someone on set with a lot of power who is like, 1542 01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:21,040 Speaker 3: you should be on board with Kimmy singing by the end, 1543 01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:22,960 Speaker 3: and she's like, no, that's not what my character would do. 1544 01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:25,680 Speaker 3: My character hates her. My character is going to like 1545 01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:28,680 Speaker 3: sit in like getting one up on her, and you know, 1546 01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:30,679 Speaker 3: like she was just so game to play a villain. 1547 01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:33,880 Speaker 3: And I really wish that the movie was written in 1548 01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:37,080 Speaker 3: a way that would have made that a more rewarding experience, 1549 01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:40,400 Speaker 3: because it's a good idea executed very poorly. So I'll 1550 01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:44,160 Speaker 3: give my half nipple to Julia and that's all I 1551 01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:44,760 Speaker 3: have to say. 1552 01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:49,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there you have it, folks. That's my best 1553 01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:55,320 Speaker 2: friend's wedding. Hey, you want to follow us on Instagram, 1554 01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:56,599 Speaker 2: Well you can. 1555 01:29:57,360 --> 01:30:00,480 Speaker 3: Well do it. 1556 01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:05,360 Speaker 2: And more importantly, subscribe to our Matreon, where you get 1557 01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:08,639 Speaker 2: two bonus episodes every month for five dollars a month, 1558 01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:14,200 Speaker 2: and it's always on some brilliant, amazing genius theme that 1559 01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:17,120 Speaker 2: Jamie and I cook up. Plus you get access to 1560 01:30:17,320 --> 01:30:20,760 Speaker 2: the entire back catalog of bonus episodes and that can 1561 01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:26,120 Speaker 2: be found at patreon dot com slash back to cast woo. 1562 01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:29,040 Speaker 3: And also you can get our merch at teapupic dot 1563 01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:35,000 Speaker 3: com slash the Bechdel Cast and we'll see it's the 1564 01:30:35,160 --> 01:30:39,600 Speaker 3: end of summer. Summer is waning, summer is gone, and 1565 01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:44,600 Speaker 3: now it's time to go back to school. And oh yeah, 1566 01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:47,080 Speaker 3: that's right. No, that's more you because you, I know 1567 01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:48,840 Speaker 3: you don't like to forget up, but you love to 1568 01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:50,760 Speaker 3: go back to school because my. 1569 01:30:50,840 --> 01:30:53,439 Speaker 2: Gosh, yeah, are you referring to back to school? 1570 01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:57,679 Speaker 3: Is your favorite? You love back to school? You couldn't stop. 1571 01:30:58,080 --> 01:31:04,760 Speaker 2: I love well. Also because I teach school at Caitlin University, 1572 01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:08,920 Speaker 2: It's true where I teach my screenwriting classes and I 1573 01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:14,160 Speaker 2: actually have a few classes starting up in September. Because 1574 01:31:14,280 --> 01:31:19,080 Speaker 2: she is back to schochool exactly, So if anyone's interested 1575 01:31:19,120 --> 01:31:23,160 Speaker 2: in those, you can go to my website Caitlindurante dot 1576 01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:27,080 Speaker 2: com slash classes. I have an intro class, so if 1577 01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:30,240 Speaker 2: you're brand new to screenwriting or you need a refresher 1578 01:31:30,360 --> 01:31:32,360 Speaker 2: or anything like that, you can take that class. And 1579 01:31:32,360 --> 01:31:36,800 Speaker 2: then I also have workshopping classes for people who are 1580 01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:40,160 Speaker 2: in the process of writing something and you want feedback 1581 01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:44,479 Speaker 2: on your materials. So, wow, back to school. What's happening? 1582 01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:47,960 Speaker 3: And this has nothing to do with school, but listen 1583 01:31:47,960 --> 01:31:51,519 Speaker 3: to my other podcast, sixteenth Minute of Fame as well. Yes, 1584 01:31:52,200 --> 01:31:55,599 Speaker 3: it is so hard to make, so please listen to it. 1585 01:31:57,439 --> 01:32:01,800 Speaker 3: All right, shall we go to I mean, it's kind 1586 01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:04,320 Speaker 3: of our thing. Let's go to a wedding with our friend. 1587 01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:09,679 Speaker 3: So many wedding style I know, it really is. We're 1588 01:32:09,760 --> 01:32:13,519 Speaker 3: each other's go to deal with it, and that's a 1589 01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:15,920 Speaker 3: true best friend's wedding. Bye bye. 1590 01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:22,920 Speaker 2: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by 1591 01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:26,839 Speaker 2: Caitlin Derante and Jamie loftis produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited 1592 01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:30,120 Speaker 2: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike 1593 01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:34,599 Speaker 2: Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Volskrosenski. Our logo in Merch 1594 01:32:34,760 --> 01:32:37,720 Speaker 2: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to 1595 01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:42,160 Speaker 2: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit 1596 01:32:42,200 --> 01:32:43,799 Speaker 2: linktree slash Bechdel Cast