1 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: All right, guys, welcome back to a new episode of 2 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: You Need Therapy. My name is Cat and I am 3 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: so glad you're here. If you're new, welcome. This is 4 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: a podcast that I host. I am a therapist. I'm 5 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: a licensed therapist in Nashville. This, however, is not therapy. 6 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: This is just me talking. I started this podcast to 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: encourage people to talk about the stuff that I talk 8 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: about and maybe go out and engage in their own 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: therapy process. So this year is not therapy. But I 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: am a therapist and what I know through being trained 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: and working as a therapist does influence the things that 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: I talk about on here. Now buckle up, guys, because 13 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: one it's all me today and too, we are going 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: to be doing a thing. We are diving head first 15 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: into dating apps, and we are going to talk about 16 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: the joys and the pains of dating apps. And man, 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: we are living in a world where to some people 18 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: out there, it really seems like dating apps are only option. 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: So I thought it would be great to have an 20 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: open conversation of the benefits and the consequences of a 21 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: dating world that has turned heavily virtual. So let's jump 22 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: in now. One of my fears that comes up so 23 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: often when I create episodes is that what we will 24 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: talk about each week won't be relatable to everybody, And honestly, 25 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: that's the nature of life. Not every episode I put 26 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: out will be for everyone, and that's okay. However, I 27 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: say that because I want to make a point to 28 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: say that this one feels different. Even if you're not 29 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: dating or you aren't interested in dating apps, this I 30 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: think will be helpful because one, you can understand the 31 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: people who are using them better. And also there's larger 32 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,919 Speaker 1: issues at hand that we're going to be talking about. 33 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: It's not just the dating apps, it's kind of culture 34 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: and norms and and all of that. So today we're 35 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: gonna talk about the pros and the cons. We're going 36 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: to talk about the reality of dating apps, and I'm 37 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: going to share with you some of my real experiences, 38 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna share some experiences of other people that 39 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: aren't mine, and we're just gonna really get into the 40 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: biggest blessing and curse to dating honestly since dating started, 41 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: in my opinion, and what I do want everybody to know, 42 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: regardless of your if you're dating, if you're married, if 43 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: you're single, if you're on a dating map, if you're 44 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: not on a dating app, I want you guys to 45 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: know this. A relationship does not, will not, and cannot 46 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: solve all of your problems. However, I think that personally, 47 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: I believe this. It's very valid to say that when 48 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: a relationship is a desire that is imprinted on your heart, 49 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: it's valid to say that having one, feeling like you 50 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: can have one, and feeling like you will have one 51 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: does make a difference in your life, how you view 52 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: your life, and how you feel in your life. So 53 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: I don't want to be sending that message that's like, oh, 54 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 1: you just have to get over it. In a relationship 55 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: doesn't make life better whatever. It doesn't necessarily make it better, 56 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: especially the kind of relationship you have. I believe you 57 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: can live a full life alone, and it's okay if 58 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: you don't have feelings about that. But it's also okay 59 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: if you do live a happy life alone and do 60 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: have feelings about it. Like, this is not a one 61 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: thing or the other. You have to be hundreds and 62 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: happy and single or hundreds and happy in a relationship. 63 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: It's all messy, you know, life is messy. Relationships are hard. 64 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: Singleness is hard. It's all hard. Now. I want to 65 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: start by sharing with you some of the people in 66 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: my life's experiences UM with dating apps and their feelings 67 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: about them. I asked a mixture of men and women 68 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: to share what it felt like to be on dating 69 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: apps UM and these are some of the responses I got. 70 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: One person said, it feels like you are mindlessly swiping 71 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: and judging people based on only a few photos and statistics. 72 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: You exchange a few messages and hope that they are 73 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: in quotes, normal, maybe even funny. But you keep going 74 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: on date after date, some bad, some boring, some neutral, 75 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: because every once in a while, every blue moon, you 76 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: click with someone and it gives you hope that it 77 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: could work. Another person said it's like musical chairs and 78 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: we're all trying to land on the one secure person 79 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: that's on the apps at that time, and you have 80 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: to act fast because they're going to get locked down 81 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: real quick. And another person, this one's a little longer, said, 82 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: being single and on a dating app sort of feels 83 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: like the movie Groundhog Day. You go through the same 84 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: motions and scenarios. Maybe make some alterations to your approach. 85 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: I think you've made some success only to wake up 86 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: and realize you're back at the start, same ship, new day. 87 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: It's an odd thing that can both bring fun and 88 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: excitement and also make you feel bad about yourself. I've 89 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: spent the past couple of years downloading and deleting apps. 90 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: I find moments where it seems like they are wonderful 91 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: people on it, and times when I feel like I'm 92 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: getting punked by the universe and I'm going to die 93 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: alone in a house full of cats. But at the 94 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: end of the day, it all feels like a numbers 95 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: game and you might never win. You match with someone 96 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: he proves to be normal, you talk, and maybe you 97 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: go out, and then maybe he gets bored and one 98 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: day he just starts swiping, and in between your last 99 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: great combo or date, he's found something new and shiny 100 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: to talk to, and things just start to fade away. Clearly, 101 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: this isn't always the case, but it is a reality 102 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: that dating app world creates for many. But it's also 103 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: the main way to meet people these days, so if 104 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: you're looking for someone, it's worth it. At least that's 105 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: what I keep telling myself. I can be single and 106 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: just do puzzles alone, or I can put myself out 107 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: there and maybe be disappointed, but hey, maybe I'll meet someone. Okay, 108 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: that last one, Like I you guys can't see me, 109 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: and I don't. I'm not like Boo who cryings you 110 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: can't tell. But like, my eyes are really watering because gosh, 111 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: that felt really real and authentic. And so I read 112 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: those because I want some of you guys to just 113 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: know if you haven't been on these things, that's kind 114 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: of I got a lot of the same gist, you know, 115 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: Like that's a lot of the things that people said, 116 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: we're pretty similar and and and just like that. So 117 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: there's the background. Let's dive into what these things are 118 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: and why they're here. If we want to trace dating 119 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: apps back to the beginning, I think that we really 120 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: need to start online dating sites like match dot com 121 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: and christian Mingole and e Harmony. Now, back in the day, 122 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: things like these weren't talked about much, and it seemed 123 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: almost shameful to be a part of them or say 124 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: that's how you met someone. However, I mean, I think 125 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: there's been plenty of success on these sites. I think 126 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: so back in two thousand and twelve, I think it 127 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: was two thousand twelve, I was seen a therapist who 128 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: um started to encourage me to try out a dating site. 129 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what I had gone to her specifically for, 130 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: probably my eating disorder that I was lying about, but 131 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: a lot of what we talked about was my dating life. 132 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: And I was in grad school at the time, and 133 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: I was struggling with the fact that I was probably 134 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: twenty two twenty three, and I had at that point 135 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: not experienced a real, long term, serious relationship. Mind you, 136 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: I at this time thought that this was the most 137 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: embarrassing thing ever. Like I would have never thought that 138 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: I would tell thousands of people on a podcast about that, 139 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: But that's true. I did not have my first real relationship. 140 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: I met him when I was twenty six, but really 141 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: because I think it was like right at my birthday. 142 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: I think it was my birthday, and that was my 143 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: first real serious relationship. And I used to think, this 144 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: is this embarrassing thing ever, and I was the only 145 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: person in the entire world who had not had a 146 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: long term relationship. And the reality is this isn't that uncommon. 147 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: But nobody flashes billboard saying, Hi, I've never dated someone, 148 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: So it's easy to feel lonely. In that, and I 149 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: want you to know if you're listening and feeling that 150 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: you aren't alone, it's not uncommon. And also, nothing is 151 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: wrong with you. Nothing. The reason that you have not 152 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: had that relationship yet is not because something is wrong 153 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: with you and you're unlovable. You might not believe that, 154 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: but I just got to say that because that's never 155 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: the case. So anyway, going back to this therapist, I 156 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: was continuing to find I mean I was dating people, UM, 157 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: I was going on dates with people, and there are 158 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: people that were interested in me, and I was interested 159 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: in but I kept finding these guys around me that were, 160 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: for a lack of a time, they were unhealthy, and 161 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: it felt like I had just kind of bad option 162 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: ends and I found myself trying to morph into what 163 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: these unhealthy humans wanted, and clearly it wasn't working out. 164 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: And she explained her encouragement to use a dating app 165 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: at or a dating site. There were new apps um 166 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: at that point that I knew about as an experiment, 167 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: and she said, I want you to experiment and realize 168 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: that you get to choose to and so it's not 169 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: so much about you finding somebody on this site, but 170 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: I want you to practice what it's like for you 171 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: to make a choice to And we do that. Man, 172 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, we do that, and we do this thing. 173 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: We're on the dating maps, which I'm kind of getting 174 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: ahead of myself, but where we are spending so much 175 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: time trying to get somebody to choose us and like 176 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: us and make sure these people like us, and we 177 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: don't even know if we like them or you only 178 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: like them because they like you. I mean, we spend 179 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: so much time trying to trying to be something that 180 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: somebody else will choose, that we don't actually spend time 181 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: doing the choosing. We don't actually get to look at, Hey, 182 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: what do I want in a relationship? Do you have 183 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: those things? No? Does that mean there's something wrong with 184 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: that person? No, But it just means that we're not 185 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: a fit anyway. She wanted me to practice choosing, and 186 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 1: you know what, I did it. I did it reluctantly, 187 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: And it was after a couple of months of her 188 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: continue to bring it up, and I signed up for 189 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: three months and it was a little painful. And I 190 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: think that at the time the only people I told 191 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: were my two roommates, and I think my mom and 192 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: maybe my sister knew, and I think I went on 193 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: two dates from that, both were very weird for different reasons, 194 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: and one of them was like my top three worst 195 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: date stories, which honestly, looking back now, I'm like grateful 196 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: for that whole experience because that story is hilarious to me, 197 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: and I had to sit in a lot of discomfort, 198 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: and so I'm grateful for the whole experience. But anyway, 199 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: the point of me telling the story is that ten 200 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: years ago I was so embarrassed about using that dating site, 201 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: like mortified, so much shame, and a huge part of 202 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: me didn't want One of the reasons was it I 203 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: told myself there must be something wrong with me that 204 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: I would have to use this and I can't just 205 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: meet somebody like everybody else does. And the other part 206 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: of me, which I don't think is true, and the 207 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: other part of me, said, I don't want my story 208 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: to be this way. I don't want this to be 209 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: the story I have about meeting my future husband. And gosh, 210 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,239 Speaker 1: the story was so important to me, like so important. 211 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: Which there's a name for this now. It's called your 212 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: meat cute. And this really gets me going because it 213 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: creates meaning out of something that shouldn't have that much meaning. 214 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: How you meet someone is not more important than the 215 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: relationship itself. This is for all you people out there, 216 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: not allowed to be a reason to not use a 217 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: dating app. We'll talk about reasons that you might not 218 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: want to use them. This doesn't get to be the 219 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: reason you don't have to use one, hear me, But 220 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: I don't want this to be the reason, because the story, 221 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: because there are way more important things about a relationship 222 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: than how you met. So there's a long history of 223 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: all online dating sites and match and all Farmers Only 224 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: and all these things that started popping up, and then 225 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: in all the sudden dating apps pop up. And I 226 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: think Tinder came out originally in two thousand and twelve, 227 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: but it wasn't like not everybody could use it on 228 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: all phones could use it, and I don't think it 229 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: gained It gained its popularity in two thousand and fourteen. 230 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: I still remember the conversation I had with somebody who 231 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: has friends with at the time, who was telling me 232 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: about the app, and she was like, oh my gosh, 233 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: if you heard of this new thing called Tinder, And 234 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: I was so confused by the concept, I like actually 235 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: could not understand the concept. Then I remember downloading it 236 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: and deleting it like once a month. I also felt 237 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: shame about I mean, there was a lot of shame 238 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: about even the apps back then too. And I also 239 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: remember the boost of self confidence I would get when 240 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: I would redownload it, and I was given instant validation 241 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: that guys thought I was pretty or cute or hot 242 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: or whatever they thought. But then it always came with 243 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: something else. Came with a lot of radio silence. It 244 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: came with a lot of unsolicited sexual messages and comments. 245 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: It came with me wondering why a certain guy didn't 246 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: me back. It came with hours of amazing text conversations 247 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: that turned into literally nothing. It came with exhaustion, It 248 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: came with numbing through constant swiping, and it came with 249 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: a preoccupation of constantly swiping. And I only went on 250 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: one date from Tinder. We went to Tako mom Asita. 251 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: This is so long ago, and he spent the entirety 252 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: of the date telling me about all like the weed 253 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: he smokes. It was so weird. I literally remember me 254 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: sitting there being like, am I supposed to be attracted 255 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: to you? Telling me the story and him just looking 256 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: at me blankly, and they to say we did not 257 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: talk again. But anyway, so as Tinder quickly started to 258 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: morph into this hook up culture thing, and all of 259 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: a sudden, all of a sudden, it was easier than 260 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: ever to have and urge and then get it met immediately. 261 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess this isn't that new, because I 262 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: guess people would do this kind of thing when they 263 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: would go to bars, But like now we'll go to 264 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: bars and pick people up. But like now you don't 265 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: even have to get dressed and leave your house. And 266 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: you know, I could spend probably an hour on hook 267 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 1: up culture. We're not going to do that, but we could, 268 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: and maybe we will one day. But I do think 269 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: Tinder is a big reason for the rise of it. 270 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 1: It's normalized and almost encouraged hook up culture. And I 271 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: want you guys to hear this. I am all for 272 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 1: people exploring and engaging in whatever kind of sexual relationship 273 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: that you want to be in with yourself and other people. 274 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: And I am not here to judge that or say 275 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: what's right and wrong. That's not what this conversation about 276 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: is about. It all I want you to do you 277 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: and I'm going to do what I want to do, 278 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: and there's no problems with that. However, the hookup culture 279 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: stuff is more about what is being normalized and why 280 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: it's being normalized, and then how that affects the rest 281 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: of the world. Women speak for women. I'm a woman 282 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: already have a hard enough time feeling safe walking down 283 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: the street, but when it comes to apps like Tinder, 284 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: it almost feels like you give up all rights to 285 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: like not be sexually objectified. The culture around Tinder feels 286 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: like just because you're on this app and there's this 287 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: unwritten rule that it's a hook up app, that people 288 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: can say whatever they want to to you, and they're 289 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: doing it behind a screen, so it's super easy. To me. 290 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: That's scary and it's also not right. I don't care 291 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: what kind of sexual relationship you want to have with 292 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: yourself and other people, it's never okay to objectify and 293 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: say the kinds of things that people say on these 294 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: sites and on these apps. I could go on and 295 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: on and on, but the thing is, if you're treated 296 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: like this for long enough, you kind of become numb 297 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: to it. What I am privy to is I hear 298 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: about I think more people's dating app experiences than most 299 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: people because a lot of my clients talk about this stuff. 300 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: The things I hear are insane in sane And the 301 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: other thing is it's become like a joke and it's like, oh, well, 302 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: it is what it is, and it shouldn't be like that. 303 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: Just because you're on a dating app doesn't mean you 304 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: can should be able to be talked to like that. 305 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: It's scary, like I said, and it's not right. And 306 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: sometimes I thinking when you're when you're in this culture 307 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: now long enough you convince yourself that you even like 308 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: it when you don't, and it almost becomes like Stockholm 309 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: syndrome situation, you know, like have you ever heard of 310 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: friends talking about a situation with someone and they're like, 311 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: oh my god, he's so sweet. He told me he 312 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: can't wait to see me naked, or honestly, something more explicit, 313 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: but I'm trying to keep it pg. Thirteen. And you're 314 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: sitting there and you're like, what the hell he's not sweet, 315 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: He's an asshole, and I'm saying him, But this goes 316 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: it could be a girl that does this too, and 317 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: and we start to confuse this like courtship pursue idea 318 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: with people just being jerks and trying to use us 319 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: sexually and it's not cool. But what I'm saying is 320 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: the issue isn't whether or not you want a to 321 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: have engage in a lifestyle of casual sex or not. 322 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: I don't care about that. The problem becomes what we 323 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: start to believe based on how we're being treated. Eventually, 324 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: a big kind of uprising ish came around Tinder, and 325 00:15:58,120 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: I think the people that were using the app too 326 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: genuine find love and relationships. Um, we're getting frustrated. And 327 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: so then something else came out, something that at first 328 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: was super exciting and offered a lot of hope, and 329 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: this is Bumble. So Bumble launched in December fourteen, so 330 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: not that far after Tinder, but I think the popularity 331 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: of it took a while, So that's when it launched. 332 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: I don't know when it really became popular, but it 333 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: was launched with two former Tender exects, one being a female, 334 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: and the idea behind this was awesome. It was a 335 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: female led dating app and it puts the messaging first 336 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: up to the woman. So if it's a heterosexual relationship 337 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: with a male and a female match, then the girl 338 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: has to message first. If it's same sex, either can 339 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: message first. And I think this doesn't really solve a 340 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: problem when it comes to the gender norms and sexuality norms, 341 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: but it was trying to create a difference in how 342 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: women were perceived and treated when it came to online dating. 343 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: So looking at the development of this, it seemed awesome. 344 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: Kind of gives some power to women in the world 345 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: that says that we need to hurry up and wait 346 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: for our suitors to come and find us and sweep 347 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: us off of our feet. And one of the execs 348 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: and founders of Bumble shared in an interview with Vanity 349 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: Fair a while ago the concept behind it, and I'm 350 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 1: just going to read a quote says, if you look 351 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: at where we are in the current heteronormative rules surrounded dating, 352 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: the unwritten rule puts the woman a peg under the man. 353 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: The man feels the pressure to go first in a conversation, 354 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: and the woman feels pressure to sit on her hands. 355 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: If we can take some of the pressure off the 356 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: man and put some of that encouragement in the woman's lap, 357 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: I think we're taking a step in the right direction, 358 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: especially in terms of really being true to feminism. I 359 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: think we are the first feminist or first attempt at 360 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: a feminist dating app. So great concept. Like I said, 361 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: now again, the pillars and the ideas that Bumble were 362 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: founded on are great women empowerment when it comes to 363 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: same sex relationships. But then it kind of comes up short, 364 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: especially because it becomes it just turns into the same thing, 365 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 1: and and when it comes the same sex relationships, it's 366 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: not really solving some of the problems. And during this time, 367 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: countless other apps come out like Hinge, Coffee Meats, Bagel, 368 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: the League, or just to name a few. I'm sure 369 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: there's tons that I don't know about. So what I'm 370 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: getting at is dating apps basically go hard between two 371 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: us and twelve and now, and we are no shortage 372 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: of them, but we do seem to be in a 373 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: shortage of something else, which is satisfaction with the apps. 374 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: And sure, there are so many people that are meeting 375 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: people and getting married and finding real relationships on these things. 376 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: It has worked for a lot of people, but it 377 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: doesn't work for a lot of people too. And are 378 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: they hurting us or they helping us? Becomes the question 379 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: I hear so often, and I think also so often 380 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: people feel pressure to use these because it seems like 381 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: everybody's using them, kind of similar to how years ago 382 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: I thought I was the only one who didn't have 383 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: a serious partner, like we just make up stories in 384 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: our head. You know that wasn't true. Everybody's not using 385 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: dating apps, but it feels that way and also feels 386 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: to some of us like it's our only option. So 387 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: as we go into this deeper, I do want to 388 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: say I am not on either side of the fence completely. 389 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: I'm not pro or con dating app. I have used 390 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: them before, and to be honest, they actually really helped 391 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: me get through a very devastating breakup and helped me 392 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: learn that other people will be interested in me. But 393 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: I did find two really important things that you have 394 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: to be ready for if you're wanting to engage in 395 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: these things. One, you have to be willing to be 396 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 1: rejected more than you are chosen. We have got to 397 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: stop putting our self worth and how many matches or 398 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 1: dates we can get, because the truth is, in life, 399 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: more people are going to not want to date you 400 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: than are going to want to date you. That's just 401 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: a fact for literally basically anyone. I will say not 402 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: for Beyonce, and probably not for people like Michael B. Jordan's. 403 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: I think everybody I don't know, I can speak for myself. 404 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: They might feel differently about this, but I mean, there's 405 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: always going to be an out liars, so those get 406 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: to be our outliers. But the truth is you just 407 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: have to be ready to not be chosen by a 408 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: lot of people. The other thing is you have to 409 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: be willing to kiss a lot of frogs, and some 410 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: of those frogs are going to be really gross frogs. 411 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: And I don't mean literally kiss gross people, like you 412 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: don't have to kiss anybody you don't want to kiss, 413 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: like no means no, and all those things, and you 414 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: can have your boundaries. But what I mean by that is, 415 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: if you really want to engage in this, statistically, you're 416 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: going to have to go on a lot of dates, 417 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: some that are bles, some that are horrible, some that 418 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: are great, some of that are great, and nobody returns 419 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: your call, some that are horrible, and people won't stop 420 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: messaging you and you're asking you out again. And I 421 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: have gone on some awful dates from dating naps, and 422 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: I've talked about it before on the show. I have 423 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: what we have named the shitty date jar in my 424 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: house where all my friends and really anybody who wants 425 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: to add to it will write down their shitty date 426 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: and put it in the jar. And honestly, I created 427 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: it so I could start laughing at some of these things. 428 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: But I have a lot of this. I have a 429 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: lot of stories, and it's just again, that's another reality. 430 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: When we are meeting people that we can't really vouch 431 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: for through friends or because we've met them before and whatnot, 432 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: we are opening ourselves up to be surprised. And you 433 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 1: can only know so much about someone from a dating 434 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: profile and a couple exchange texts. You can have crazy 435 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: great chemistry through texting and then meet them and be 436 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: completely turned off. I mean, does anybody remember me talking 437 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: about the guy who called me a basic white bitch 438 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: last year? Like this is what I'm talking about. I 439 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: thought this guy was going to be awesome and then 440 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: we meet and it was like, within probably five ten minutes, 441 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 1: we both were like, this is a disaster. He hated me. Well, 442 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: I can't speak for him, but like I did not 443 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: enjoy his company. He was not so kind. I don't 444 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: know that I was either, But anyway, I digress. So again, 445 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: one of the most common things I hear in my 446 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: office are dating woes. And I have worked with countless 447 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: amazing women and men who struggle finding relationships. And what 448 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: I hear and what I get asked all the time 449 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: is what's wrong with me? What am I doing wrong? 450 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: Because a lot genuinely people want to know, like I 451 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: want to know so I can fix it. And and 452 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: the truth is, sometimes there are things we can work 453 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: on around trauma and relationship patterns and in your sense 454 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: of self to help us be more attracted to healthier humans. However, 455 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:23,239 Speaker 1: oftentimes it's not just that easy. It's the system that 456 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 1: has been set up around dating. And that system that 457 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: we're in around dating dating is very different than it 458 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: used to be, very different. The energy around dating, the 459 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: beliefs around dating, the way we date, it's very different 460 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: than it used to be. I don't think it's all bad. 461 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 1: I think some of it's very good. But some of 462 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: the system has has really taken a turn for the 463 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: ikey side. So let's talk about the system first. Let's 464 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: talk about what dating apps have helped with because I 465 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: think that they've helped with things. There are more interracial 466 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: relationships than ever before, and I think that's amazing, and 467 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: this is due largely to multiple things. I do believe 468 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: that the apps allow people to connect with people that 469 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: they would never run into otherwise due to their different cultures, lifestyles, whatever. 470 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: You are connecting with more people with different educational and 471 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: geographical differences than you, and to me, that's pro I 472 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: guess that could also somebody could see that as a 473 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: con if that you wanted to. But to me, I 474 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: think that's a pro of like, we are coming in 475 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: contact with people that wouldn't normally be in our social circle. Um, 476 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: so it's it's widening the options. In one sense. They 477 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: also help people meet people who live in places or 478 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: towns where there aren't a lot of options, so kind 479 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: of along the same idea. Or they help people who 480 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: essentially don't have a lot of time to do much 481 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: outside of work. However, I could talk about that for 482 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: a while, because there's way more to the fact that 483 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: you don't have time to date or meet people. I 484 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: would wonder boundaries, priorities, all that, but you get what 485 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: I'm saying. Another pro is it gives just more opportunity 486 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: to meet people in general. And you'll still hear people 487 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: say I don't know how to date people. And the 488 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: founders of Tender actually started the app because one of 489 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: them basically never left the house and this helped him 490 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: engage in the dating scene. And so it's helpful for 491 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: people that are more introverted or shy or any of that. Again, 492 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: I will say this could be a con and honestly, 493 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: what I have found is at the high side of 494 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 1: every pro here kind of does have a con walking 495 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,479 Speaker 1: right beside it. Yes, it's easier to meet people, but 496 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: that's just it. It is easier to meet people, and 497 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: we don't have to do the scary things anymore. We 498 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: don't have to have the scary conversations. We don't have 499 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: to push ourselves into our stretch stone and be vulnerable. 500 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: We don't have to. We can sit at home on 501 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 1: Friday night and swipe instead of going out in public 502 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: and meeting humans face to face. Honestly, you can go 503 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: out and sit at a bar and swipe and not 504 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: have to talk to somebody, and you can get a 505 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: confirmation that somebody thinks you're attractive before you actually go 506 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 1: up and try to talk to them. Feelings, my feelings 507 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: are coming up. So the most basic and universal fear 508 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: that humans hold is the fear of being rejected and 509 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: or abandoned. Dating apps sue this fear like none other, 510 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: but I don't think in a good way. And my 511 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: own fear around this is that it stunts our emotional tanks. 512 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: If we don't have to be vulnerable and risk rejection 513 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: and we don't like those things, why the heck would 514 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: we do them if we don't have to write? Okay, 515 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: So this is my theory that I've kind of come 516 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: up with around this, And I'm using general terms here 517 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: and I'm using gender normative language, So bear with me 518 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: as I make this point as best I can. I'm 519 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 1: not trying to exclude people or offend anybody, and I'm 520 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 1: just going to talk about it with gender normative language 521 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: and relationship normative language. It used to be that men 522 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: had an easier time being rejected, and this was because 523 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: the ratio of rejection to acceptance. Think about it this way, 524 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 1: if historically, in same sex heterosexual relationships, the men are 525 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: the ones who are expected and therefore do the asking 526 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: out and pursuing, and us women just sit around and 527 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: wait for our you know, our white knights to come 528 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: sweep us off our feet. Which as a whole another 529 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: thing the men get somewhat used to hearing. Now, this 530 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: allows them to become desensitized to the no. Basically, eventually 531 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: someone says yes right like usually, and they start to 532 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: believe that there is a yes inside all of the nose, 533 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: and so they become desensitized from that rejection, and they 534 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: also find hope that somebody's going to say yes. And 535 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: the thing is, if we don't experience this anymore, we 536 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: get less emotionally habituated to the experience of not being chosen, 537 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: and so when we are not chosen, it feels bigger. 538 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: It feels like a shock instead of a part of 539 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: life and not being chosen by someone or not. I 540 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: kind of hate even that language around it. But somebody 541 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 1: not wanting to date you are going to date with you, 542 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: or somebody not thinking you're attractive, it's really not that 543 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: big of a deal. It really isn't, because the reality 544 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: is not everybody can like us. We all have such 545 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: different filters and minds and and worldviews and personalities that 546 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: it just doesn't make sense. But if we're not engaging 547 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: in that, ever, we live in a world where we 548 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: just like get on an app and get a bunch 549 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: of likes in in in whatever, and get our valuation fixed, 550 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: and then delete the app and then do it again 551 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: three weeks later. We're not realizing that it's super normal 552 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: to not have people choose you. So that's one thing, 553 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: And then we become more fearful when we are in 554 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: public and we don't actually have real conversations, We don't 555 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: really make eye contact with people, we don't do the 556 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: scary thing. And so that's what makes a lot of 557 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 1: people feel like, well if I don't, if I'm not 558 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: on a dating app, nobody's going to talk to me 559 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: in a coffee shop because all the people in the 560 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: coffee shop are sitting on their phones on their dating apps. Man, 561 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: not being chosen by somebody, or not being liked by somebody, 562 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: or or being told no by someone does not mean 563 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: something's wrong with you. It just means that you won't 564 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: fit everyone. And I think that's a really hard reality 565 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: that a lot of us don't like to live in. 566 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: And you know, this is just like a side note, 567 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: but how many of you just thought about this as 568 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: I was saying that, how many of you have been 569 00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: out in public and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm 570 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: at with that guy on a dating app, but y'all 571 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: don't speak. And then you get home and you get 572 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: a message on the dating app it says, did I 573 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: just see you at so and so or wherever? And 574 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 1: you're like, yes, I was there, and you guys have 575 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: a great conversation, But like, the reality is, why didn't 576 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: you just say something in person? We're just so habituated 577 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: to being being afraid of true vulnerability and we choose 578 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: comfort over everything, So why don't we just start talking 579 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: about the cons because kind of there a huge issue 580 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,959 Speaker 1: with the dating maps is it seems like there's too 581 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: many options and at times dating now feels like your 582 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: online shopping and the term there are plenty of fish 583 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: in the sea is being used against people in a way. 584 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: I mean this in the sense that anyone can get 585 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: on a dating app instead of a date in the 586 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: next day. Doesn't mean it's going to be a quality date, 587 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: but there are options out there, and psychologically this affects 588 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: the way we engage in relationships and the effort we 589 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: put into them. There can be less of a desire 590 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: to stay in a relationship and work through toughness because 591 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: you can just start a honeymoon phase with somebody else 592 00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: the next day. And I know that some of us 593 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: are like, oh, there's not any good options on there, 594 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: But the fact is there are so many options, and 595 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: that messes with our heads or there's an idea that 596 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: there's so many options out there. Really Number two a 597 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: huge colum which I feel like I don't need to 598 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: drive home anymore because I just talked about it. But 599 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,959 Speaker 1: it lowers our tolerance for discomfort. It also lowers our 600 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: expectations for dating. And I kind of mentioned this earlier 601 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: when I was talking about like how we're like, oh 602 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: my gosh, this cute guy just told me he can't 603 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: wait to see me naked, and I'm like, oh my gosh, 604 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: you have not even met him yet. That's that's sweet, 605 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: But it lowers our expectations. And there's so many examples 606 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: of that I could give, but you guys know what 607 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: I mean, and I would even if you're somebody who 608 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: struggles with this, I think about how like your expectations 609 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: might be lowered and you're okay with people doing the 610 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: bare minimum because people can and I can get away 611 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,479 Speaker 1: with it. The other thing is we confuse intimacy with 612 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: for information or we confuse information for intimacy and it 613 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: just makes dating weird. Dating is an experience where you 614 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: meet someone, you get to know them, date, date, you 615 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: start to learn more about each other, and through that 616 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: you gain a level of intimacy By shared experiences, shared time, 617 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: and information. People can spend weeks texting someone on a 618 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: dating mapp and then they know your whole life story 619 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: by the time you meet, So like, that's weird. But also, 620 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: building trust is part of building intimacy. So how are 621 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: you building trust by just texting someone you don't even 622 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: really know who they are? And I believe people earn 623 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: the right to know your story. So it also can 624 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: be a shock to you when you meet somebody for 625 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: the first time who knows everything about you, and then 626 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I don't know how to communicate in 627 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: real life. You know, I don't know how to have 628 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: an intimate conversation when I don't have all the time 629 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: I need to edit and and fix and state everything 630 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: I want to say perfectly. Also, I think what I 631 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: hear a lot is word exhausted by dating now because 632 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: of the so many options and so many opportunities, and 633 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: because it feels like we have to be on there 634 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: so often to find that person, and it makes me 635 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: think of that one of the things that I read 636 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: in the very beginning about it seems like we're all 637 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: in a quest for the one secure person out there. 638 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: So it feels like we have to be on the 639 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: app all the time to make sure we don't miss 640 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: that person, and you know, burnout built up, you know, 641 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: and ramps up, and I think we get super discouraged easier, 642 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: and then gosh, ghosting. Haven't mentioned ghosting yet. Let's talk 643 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: about that, and let's talk about the differences in ghosting. 644 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: Because it's one thing if you match with someone and 645 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: you message them a couple of times and then they 646 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: went dark. It's another thing if you have a full 647 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: fledged conversations, you make plans for a date and then 648 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: they go dark. And it's a another thing when you 649 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: have actually been on a date and then they go dark. 650 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: Were multiple dates or I mean you're in a relationship 651 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: and then they go dark. I could do a lot 652 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: of episodes inside of this episode. I just do want 653 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: to go to see. The truth is we know why 654 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: people do this to an extent, they do it because 655 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: they can. We are building up this intolerance to discomfort 656 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: through the easiness in the ease of dating apps and 657 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: the impersonal nous of dating apps. Dating apps are not personal, 658 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: so we don't have to do the scary, uncomfortable thing, 659 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: we don't have to have the uncomfortable conversation, we don't 660 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: have to be honest. We can just not talk about it, 661 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: we can avoid it. And again that it sends us 662 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: the message on a different level around our inability to 663 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: handle hard things and difficult things and uncomfortable things. And 664 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: because of the nature of dating apps, people are looking 665 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: at each other as not so human. It's like just 666 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: another person I swiped on, just another person I had 667 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,239 Speaker 1: a random conversation with, which just another person I went 668 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: on a date with. And like, I hate this because 669 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: every person on the dating app is a person. The 670 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: people I mean, I think there's some like you know 671 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: again outliers this time it's like Michael B. Jordan's it's 672 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: like the creepy people on there that are like catfishing 673 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: or you know, could be predators. But for the most part, 674 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: the people on these dating apps are people, and and 675 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: we forget to treat each other that way. And here's 676 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: what I'm about ghosting and about being stood up and 677 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: not being chosen by people. It is not a about you, 678 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,479 Speaker 1: and I really want you to hear this. It's not 679 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: about you. We don't have all the information, so we 680 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: really can't pinpoint what it's about. But it cannot be 681 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: about you if they don't really know you, and if 682 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: it's about their perception of you, it's still not about you, 683 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: because a perception is someone's view of something based on 684 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: the filter they see life through, a filter that could 685 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: be covered and painted with five hundred million different things, 686 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: including attachment wounds. So I'm gonna say it again. When 687 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: somebody ghost you, doesn't choose you, stands you up, ignores you, 688 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: it's not about you. And we can't always make it 689 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: about us. I don't want you to make it about you. Yeah, 690 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: I want us to be introspective. I want us to 691 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: notice when our stuff comes up. I want us to 692 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: notice all that stuff. But a lot of times it's 693 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: not about us. And when we try to make it 694 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: about us, we send ourselves a message that we're wrong 695 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: and bad, and that's not helpful. Now when it comes 696 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: down to it, dating apps aren't going anywhere, and it 697 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: can feel very much like like I said, since everyone 698 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: need using them. I'll never meet somebody if I don't 699 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: use them, and I don't really believe that to be true. 700 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: If you don't want to use them, don't use them. 701 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: If you do, use them, but just because everyone's doing 702 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: them doesn't mean you have to. What you will have 703 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: to be aware and open for if you don't want 704 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: to use them, is just for other opportunities which are 705 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: harder now due to the nature of what these have 706 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: done to just our people skills, like our interpersonal skills, 707 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,240 Speaker 1: like this has stunted our interpersonal skills to an extent. 708 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: And the truth is, there's no how to when it 709 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: comes to dating. Oh man, I could go off on 710 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: this relationship. And love coaches have become such a thing, 711 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: and for the lack of a better term, they're very 712 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: annoying to me. No one can guarantee you love in 713 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: a relationship. A lot of this is up to chance 714 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: in life and in the universe. And and if you 715 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: believe in God God, there isn't a book you can read, 716 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: There isn't a workshop you can take. There isn't one 717 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: thing that's going to lead you and make you into 718 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: the person that's gonna then finally run into a person 719 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: and have a relationship. That's not how that works. There 720 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: are things you can work on, yes, your attachment, anxiety, 721 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: your story, the filter you view the world through all 722 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: of that jazz, But when it comes to your core 723 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: beliefs that influence how you approach relationships, you can't get 724 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: that love coached out of you. And I just take 725 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: this stuff so seriously. Therapist have like sixteen different roads 726 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: crossing inside their heads when they work with clients. We 727 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: are looking and evaluating so many things at once and 728 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: putting pieces together in the back of our minds. The 729 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,919 Speaker 1: questions we ask, the way we sit, the pauses we make, 730 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: the things we pick out of what you say, they 731 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: all have purpose. And we have been trained and have 732 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: studied for years how to do this in a way 733 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: that actually offers healing and hope, and not just hope 734 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,439 Speaker 1: that we can fix you and make you datable. That's 735 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: not our goal, and there is. People are too complicated. 736 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: Mental health is too complicated. Relationships are too complicated for 737 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: us to simplify them in a dating workshop or a book, 738 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: because we are all so different based on our experiences 739 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: are shared experiences and all of that. If you ever 740 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 1: see something that guarantees you find love or relationship. Be wary, 741 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: like really do Like I'm not saying don't do it, 742 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: but put your guard up a little bit. I cannot 743 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: guarantee anything as a therapist. I cannot predict your life. 744 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: I cannot predict your future. And the truth is not 745 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: everyone And I hate this, but not everyone gets what 746 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: they want, and not everybody gets what they deserve, no 747 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: matter how hard they work. Not trying to be a 748 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: debbie downer because I hate this because there's things in 749 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: my life that I'm like I might not ever get those. 750 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: I say this because it would be manipulative for me 751 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: to tell you that I can make something happen in 752 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,919 Speaker 1: your life like that. What I can do is help 753 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: you find hope and healing. I can help someone see 754 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: their blind spots for sure, and that might help you 755 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: in your relationships or your pursuit of a relationship. I 756 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,359 Speaker 1: also can't do it myself. I help you do it, 757 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: so I help you do the thing. I don't do 758 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: the thing, and I cannot use the same steps to 759 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: help every single person I work with. That idea is 760 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: outrageous to me. Now that was a rant. I kind 761 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: of didn't expect to go on. But we went there, 762 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 1: so I'm glad we did. And I mean, I think 763 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: y'all can get what I'm saying. When it comes down 764 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: to it, it isn't so much that dating apps are 765 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: our problem. I think it's something bigger. I think that 766 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: it is this idea that we want so much, instant gratification. 767 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: It's the idea that we want to We want the 768 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,800 Speaker 1: easy road, we want the comfortable road. We want answers 769 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: and and again. We want it to be easy. And 770 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: relationships aren't easy. Meeting people isn't always easy. Asking someone 771 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: out isn't easy. Being vulnerable is not easy. Gosh, I 772 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: wish it was, but it's not. Dating is hard. Relationships 773 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: are hard, Being vulnerable is hard. Now as our world 774 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: progresses more and more, we are finding ways to simplify 775 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: life and things. And I think that's awesome when it 776 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: comes to efficiency and in medical upgrades and stuff like that. 777 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: But when it comes to our interpersonal relationships, I don't 778 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: know if efficiency is what we need to be going after. Authenticity, relatability, connection, 779 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: all of those things are lost with efficiency. Think about it. Gosh, 780 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: this makes me think about I want to grab some 781 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: cookies at Crumble cookies. Shout out Crumble cookies. Oh my gosh, 782 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: if you have not been, you need to go. If 783 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: you have one close to you, they are maze. So anyway, 784 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: I went to grab some last week before I went 785 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: to my friend's house, and I had never been into 786 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,760 Speaker 1: the store. Um, I usually just order because they deliver 787 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: them warm, but I was going to pass it, so 788 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: I went to go grab them, and I was so 789 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 1: confused because it's like a storefront. You go in and 790 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: there's people there, and there's people working. But if you 791 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: don't want to you don't have to talk to someone 792 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: you when you go in and order. You can just 793 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,800 Speaker 1: order at a kiosk and then just wait there and 794 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: then they'll just call your name when you grab them 795 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: and you leave. And you know how many stories did 796 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: you used to hear about people meeting in line somewhere 797 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: or at a coffee shop or somewhere random. And well, 798 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 1: if we all order our groceries and and don't stand 799 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: in line anywhere, and we do everything on our phones, 800 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: including these dating apps, you're never we're going to meet 801 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: somebody out in public, because again we're going for efficiency, 802 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: and it takes out the relational aspect of life. And 803 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: if we don't have the relational aspect of life anymore, 804 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: how are we going to build and find relationships? Right? 805 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: I think the other part of this that is definitely 806 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: not lost on me is that the pandemic has created 807 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: a little bit of an issue, and it's created an 808 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: inability to be in public and meet people. And I 809 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: think that builds some gratitude for the apps, because for 810 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 1: a couple of months and even now, it fills a 811 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: gap when there weren't any other options. We couldn't go 812 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: out on public and so that was helpful. But now 813 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 1: it seems like we're we've dug ourselves a bigger hole. 814 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: It's not like when the pandemic is over, I think 815 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: everybody's gonna be Okay, let's go out and make eye 816 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: contact with people again. And when it comes down to it, 817 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: I feel like this sounds very one sided, but I'm 818 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: really not for against the apps. I've used them, and 819 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: I've found and dated more than one person that I've 820 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: met off of those, and and one of them I 821 00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,919 Speaker 1: still keep in touch with and he's somebody I enjoy 822 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,319 Speaker 1: having in my life. After we realized the relationship was 823 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: never going to work, but what I believe is if 824 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: we're going to be using these apps, there's nothing wrong 825 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: with that, we also need to be working other muscles. 826 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: We can't rely on them, But the fact that so 827 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: many people do rely on them creates the ripple effect 828 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: that makes us feel like we have no other option 829 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: but to rely on them, And when we start to 830 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,359 Speaker 1: think of it that way, it creates this like black 831 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: and white all our nothingness, And I don't think we 832 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: need to do that with most things. There are plenty 833 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 1: of people that still don't use them, less than before, 834 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: but also not everybody's using them, and I guess kind 835 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: of coming to an end here. My goal in doing 836 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: this episode is really to be talking about something that 837 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: we're all feeling and talking about it out loud. If 838 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: you're frustrated with this, you're not alone. I don't have 839 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 1: the answer right now, but what I do know is 840 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,399 Speaker 1: speaking about the potential problem often is the first step 841 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,439 Speaker 1: in in a healing process and finding an answer. So 842 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: I want to just send some encouragement to everything to 843 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 1: keep heart and take the pressure off of these things. 844 00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: Maybe if they don't work for you and they're causing 845 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: you more pain, don't feel like you have to do it, 846 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,280 Speaker 1: and if they do work for you, that's okay too, 847 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,359 Speaker 1: Like that's that's awesome. If you've found a relationship where 848 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: you enjoy them, that's awesome, just like anything else. Which 849 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 1: kind of the point of this A lot of what 850 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: I've said, there isn't a one size fits all for everybody. 851 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: So these dating apps are going to be great for 852 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: certain people and they're going to be really not great 853 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: for other people. We don't all have to be on 854 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,279 Speaker 1: the same page. What I do think we all need 855 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: to be on that the same page about is maintaining 856 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: the ability to connect in real life, right, Like we 857 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: need to still be working those muscles. And so I 858 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: don't know how we do that. Maybe we all go 859 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: out and and we practice making eye contact, or we 860 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: practice saying hi to somebody or asking somebody how their 861 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 1: day is, and we just see what happens. Because I 862 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 1: think the pandemic has added to this, because it's like 863 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: stay six ft away, oh gosh, you know, which I respect, 864 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 1: but it's created this another gap and being like, hey, 865 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: how are you. We don't have to do it, so 866 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 1: we don't do it, and then we're scared of doing 867 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 1: it even though it's not scared to say hi to 868 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 1: a stranger. Well, certain strangers maybe, but like you know, 869 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: a target, if you're in line, it's okay to be like, Hi, 870 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 1: how's your day anyway. So I don't have the answer, 871 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: but what I do have is the beginning of a conversation. 872 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,880 Speaker 1: So I really hope that this conversation helps some people 873 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,800 Speaker 1: feel seen, and some people feel understood, and some people 874 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: feel not alone, and maybe if you're if you're not 875 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,400 Speaker 1: one of those people, it can help you have an 876 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: understanding for what some other people might be going through. 877 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: Because this stuff is tough, so keep heart. I love you, guys. 878 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: I will talk to you guys on Wednesday for couch Talks. 879 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,320 Speaker 1: I say this a lot, but if you have specific 880 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: questions about this episode and dating, send it to me. 881 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 1: I am not a dating coach. I have a therapist, 882 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:39,839 Speaker 1: so I'm not going to tell you what to do. 883 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,320 Speaker 1: If you have a thought, maybe it's just a comment, 884 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 1: send it to me and maybe we'll share that. You 885 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: can send it to Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast 886 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 1: dot com, And if you don't already follow me, you 887 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 1: can follow me at at Cat dot de fata on 888 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: Instagram and at you Need Therapy podcast on Instagram. I 889 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: also would love so much if you guys could rate, 890 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,760 Speaker 1: review and some ab scribe to this podcast. That stuff 891 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: all means so much, and when I do ask you 892 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,719 Speaker 1: guys to do it, some of you do actually do it, 893 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 1: so I appreciate that. And um, if you could, yeah, 894 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: just put a little rating. If you're listening to this 895 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,400 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, scroll to the bottom real quick click. 896 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 1: That's hard to say of rating on there. And if 897 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,839 Speaker 1: you have a couple of extra moments, I feel free 898 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: to leave a little feedback for me. I love reading 899 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,239 Speaker 1: that stuff. So I will talk to you guys on Wednesday, 900 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,399 Speaker 1: and um, I love you guys. Have the dating day 901 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: you need to have today.