1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin. And here's the thing. With political discourse 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: on television, dominated by bombast fact twisting and outrageous personal attacks, 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: it's easy to dismiss every bit of it as a 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: worthless side show. But one of the rare voices worth 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: listening to is George Will. He won a Pulitzer in 6 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven for his political commentary, much of which 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: was critical of President Nixon. He has a column in 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: both The Washington Post and Newsweek, and he's been a 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: regular panelist on ABC's This Week on Sunday mornings since 10 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: ninety one. While politically conservative, he's not afraid to direct 11 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: his criticism to the right and extend dinner invitations to 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: the left. George Will's passion for all things political started early, well, 13 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: at the first election I remember was Dewey Truman and 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: forty eight. I was, I guess seven years old, and 15 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: I remembered how and why. Well, I just remember the 16 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: static on radio, the stuff about it going on, and 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: a chair you pull up with the adult exactly. In 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two, I remember Taft his running and for 19 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: the Republican nomination against Eisenhower, speaking in Champagne Illinois, and 20 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: I went to see that. I remember ST's Key Farber, 21 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: Tennessee senator who is running for first and fifty two 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: and again in fifty six. Uh in fifty six when 23 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: he became Stevenson's running made at the convention when Stevenson, 24 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: through the convention opened to pick the vice president. So 25 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: I saw a few of these national candidates and got interested. 26 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: His career in political journalism started forty years ago when 27 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: he was hired to be editor of the National Review. 28 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: Over the years, he's established himself as a consistent and 29 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: respected voice in American political life. George Wills also a 30 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,559 Speaker 1: baseball writer and a passionate fan. I can't remember life 31 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: without it. And growing up in central Illinois on the 32 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: Illinois Central Railroad, the main line of Mid America as 33 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: it was called, taking trains to Chicago, sort of fixated 34 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: on Chicago. And this was pre television, so baseball was 35 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: literally in the air. There were two teams in Chicago 36 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: and two in St. Louis. The St. Louis Browns were there. St. 37 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: Louis was the westernmost outpost of baseball, and I just 38 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: got hooked on the radio, the voice of it all. 39 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: It was my connection to Metropolitan America if you will sports, 40 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: and particularly about baseball, then because it's a rich sediment 41 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: of numbers, it was one of the first things a 42 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: young person could peg up with adults on that you 43 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: could know as much about Jimmy Fox as your father did. 44 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: Will's book meant at work. The Craft of Baseball was 45 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: a New York Times best seller. But back to politics, 46 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: namely the presidential election, about which Will has no shortage 47 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: of opinions. He considers the number of debates during the 48 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: recent Republican primary season excessive. When I spoke with him 49 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: earlier this year, he told me the primaries were just 50 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: a mess, and he says the current race is far 51 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: from over. I certainly do not think this is a 52 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: slam dunk for either side. Give you a little background 53 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: into Republicans in the Senate or the White House of 54 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: White House, let's start with it. In two thousand and eight, 55 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: Barack Obama had all the wind at his back, everything 56 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: going from it was an African American at a time 57 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: when the country was eager to do that. The Republicans had, 58 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: in the view of many of us, pretty much disgraced 59 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: themselves at home and abroad. Free years they nominated in 60 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: the implausible seventy two year old Warrior and a really 61 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: implausible running mate. The country was in economic meltdown. Just 62 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: everything was going wrong. Obama had been two years out 63 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: of the Illinois State legislature. He was a raw shock 64 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: test for the nation. You could project whatever you wanted 65 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: on him as a fairly unknown candidate to get be 66 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: all things to all people. Still, he got fifty two 67 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: point eight percent of the vote. Question. Democratic Party is 68 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: the oldest political party in the world. How many Democratic 69 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: candidates in the history of that party have got more 70 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: than fifty three of the vote and is only three 71 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: Andrew Jackson for Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson. The Republicans, a 72 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: younger party, have had ten candidates good over which means 73 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: that in two thousand and twelve Obama is probably going 74 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: to get less than fifty two point eight percent of 75 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: the vote. Why do you think the Democrats have a 76 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: harder time getting about I don't know. I have an opinion. Well, 77 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: because they're they're typically very often when they're at their best, 78 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: and both sides I want to focus on them at 79 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: their best. The Democrats are asking people to vote against 80 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: their own interests very often where the Republicans are asking 81 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: people to vote for their interests for it, which is 82 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: an easier row stone to push up there slightly tendentious presentation. 83 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: When was the last time the Democrats asked the United 84 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: Auto Workers to vote against their interest When the last 85 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: time they asked the teachers unions to vote against their interests? 86 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: I should think it's exactly the reverse. The Democratic problem 87 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: in addressing the country is that it is so much 88 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: a mosaic of vested interests that the Democratic Party has become, 89 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: in my judgment, a had done of reactionary liberalism. Whatever 90 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: is should always be only bigger. Well, when I look 91 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: at the you know what are considered liberal policies, democratic policies, 92 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: progressive policies, I think to myself, well, at least there 93 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: was an effort by them, albeit sometimes an ill conceived one, 94 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: to solve a real problem. Do you think that these 95 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: people are not really trying to solve a problem that 96 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: they try to the Democrats, Sometimes they're trying to solve problems. 97 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes the problem they're trying to solve is the unsliked 98 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: appetite of an interest group. Right, you think Obama has 99 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: a chance to win, Sure, you do, Yeah, what do 100 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: you think Roby's biggest problem is people don't warm to him. 101 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: They don't dislike you, but they don't like him. That's 102 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,799 Speaker 1: different and in some ways more deadly, because if people 103 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: don't like you, it's because you've said something or stand 104 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: for something, and you can always persuade them or change 105 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: into something else. Right, if they just don't cotton to you, 106 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: it's it's hard to think about you at all. Well, 107 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: it's hard to repeal chemistry. It And what do you 108 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: think is going to be Obama's biggest battle in the election. 109 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,679 Speaker 1: I think the sense that he's Jimmy Carter, amiable, decent, 110 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: well meaning, and out of his depth. You know, there's 111 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: an old saying in Washington at least, that overnights a 112 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: long time, and a week is forever in American politics. 113 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: We haven't heard the last from Spain. We haven't heard 114 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: the last from various economic difficulties. If the economy stalls, 115 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: which it easily could do, who knows. You mentioned earlier 116 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: about the mess of the Republican primary season and what happened, 117 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: and I was joking with some friends how I thought that, 118 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: to some extent, the only thing Obama needs to do 119 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: when he runs against Romney, has show clips of all 120 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: the things that gang Ridge said about Romney during the 121 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: primary period, and he might be halfway there. Well, except 122 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: being criticized by new gang Ridge is not necessarily a problem. 123 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: But in my lifetime, this was really the realm of 124 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: the Democrats, the circular firing squad, and the Republicans in 125 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: my left and were never like that, I mean the 126 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: Republican they fell in line and supported the nominee. What 127 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: happened do you think this time around? Well, first of all, 128 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: the varsity didn't show up. The best players didn't the 129 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: Mitch Daniels and others, Jeb Bush, and so you had 130 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: people who are trying to establish a kind of status 131 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: and purchase on the electorate that that didn't bring to 132 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: the party to become stars. If you become stars, and 133 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: we had this lunatic proliferation of debates. When a baseball team, 134 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: thirty baseball teams go to spring training, they know everyone 135 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna win sixty games, everyone I'm gonna lose sixty games. 136 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: You play the whole damn season to sort out forty 137 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: two games. It's a little bit that way in politics. 138 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: The Republicans are going to vote Republican, particularly in this 139 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: polarized climate. The Democrats are going to vote democratic. We're 140 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: really going to be fighting this fall, all this money 141 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: and time and energy over twelve percent of the electorate. 142 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: I think I watched you on Colbert and you said 143 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: that parties were you quoted whoever it was you quoted, 144 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,559 Speaker 1: where parties were systems by which we organize our hates 145 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: and our Henry Adams and that. But do you think 146 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: most people that's that's true? Do you think, for example, 147 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: I vote the way I vote because I'm voting against 148 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: someone as opposed to force someone else. You're voting against 149 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: someone else, but not hatred. The American people are really 150 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: not haters. We're big boys and girls. We've been doing 151 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: this a long time. We're the most experienced democracy. We 152 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: understand that people have different political sensibilities. Those people cluster, 153 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: we call the clusters parties. We fight it out a 154 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: big deal. But when you say that people, it is 155 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 1: not a hatred involved. Would you agree that in your lifetime, 156 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: in your career, you've seen that it's reached a kind 157 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: of an ugly time now in terms of media, meaning, 158 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: especially in the conservative media, where it was liberal too 159 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,719 Speaker 1: because I mean, obviously Olberman, and there's a whole MSNBC 160 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: crab which seems to have been wanting to mimic their 161 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: counter parts over at Fox. But do you see that 162 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: the rhetoric has changed over the last several years and 163 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: somewhat although I mean it used to be Republicans against Republicans. 164 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: My first vote for president was in the Goldwater election. 165 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: I was a cheerful Goldwater right. In fact, I will 166 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: it a visit a button. You're gonna give me no, no, 167 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 1: But our Kennedy listeners can't see this. But anyway, I've 168 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: got a Goldwater button is the wallpaper on my cell phone, 169 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: and some of us never forget. But again, a little perspective. 170 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: In the seventeen nineties, in the Great Election of eighteen hundred, 171 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: the Adams sites said if Jefferson's elected, they will confiscate 172 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: the Bibles and women will not be safe on the streets. 173 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: The Jeffersonian said, if Adams is elected, we will have 174 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: a monarchy installed in this country and will be subservient 175 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 1: to France. In the eighteen fifties, Preston Brooks of South 176 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: Carolina Congressman goes on the Senate floor accompanied by an 177 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: aide holding a gun to hold off the other senators 178 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: on the Senate floor, used his cane to beat Senator 179 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: Charles Sumner mass Usetts so severely he was out of 180 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: the Senate for three years. People of South Carolina were 181 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: so approving of this they inundated his office with new canes. 182 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: We've been through really violent times and we're in one 183 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: of those periods now and it will burn over. But 184 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:29,599 Speaker 1: in your profession, in the political professional class, the punditocracy, 185 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, now we have a 186 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: whole network which is very, very tilted in one direction. 187 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: Did you see them coming to have two whole networks? Well, look, 188 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: thirty years ago CNN was found in an eighty one, 189 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: I think thirty years ago at the dinner hour in 190 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: this country, of all television sets in used were turned 191 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: to Cronkite Chancellor and Peter Jennings. Today we have this 192 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: cornucopia of news sources. People to find journalism on their 193 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: own terms, get it on their own time. I was 194 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: told by an activist in South Carolina during the primary 195 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: this year that a survey showed that seventy two of 196 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: all Republican primary voters in South Carolina get all, not 197 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: most all of their news from Fox News. On a 198 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: Republican candidate buys an ad on Fox News, he's not broadcasting, 199 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: he's narrowcasting right into Republican voters now. In a way, 200 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: this too is a reversion when the party system developed 201 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: in the seventeen nineties and early eighteen hundreds, American newspapers 202 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: were largely factional papers. Some of them were paid by 203 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: the parties. So we may look back upon the Some 204 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: would say the pretense of objective journalism or nonpartisan journalism 205 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: as an episode of parenthesis in our nationals last incarnation 206 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: and something. Have you ever been approached by some of 207 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: those folks. I would imagine that they would have been 208 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 1: dying Fox and Ales for you to come work. Did 209 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,599 Speaker 1: you know? I? I know and like your l's and 210 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: Brett Human and these people of friends of mine. No, 211 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: I've been with this one show on ABC for thirty 212 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: one years and there was never an attempt by anyone 213 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: to try to poach Shoot to enhance their credentials to 214 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 1: have a truly sober voice among that crowd. They've got 215 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: sober boys. Look Brett Bears six o'clock news program on 216 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: foxes as good as it gets. What do you think 217 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: about those labels? If you had to, how do you 218 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: prefer to be labeled on the conservative? Conservative? Sure? To 219 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: you that's defined by what today limited government government, the 220 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:38,239 Speaker 1: Madisonian project that we shall have a government of dual sovereignty, 221 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: national and state, and that the national government shall be 222 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: as he said in Federalists forty five, the Proposed Constitution. 223 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: Because we're the Federalist papers were newspaper columns advocating ratification 224 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: of the constitution. The powers granted to the federal government 225 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 1: by the proposed Constitution are few and definite. This is 226 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: the argument in the sp in court over the healthcare plan. 227 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: That is, if the commerce clause is so elastic that 228 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: it can accommodate the action of mandating the purchase of healthcare, 229 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: then we really do not have any longer the Madisonian 230 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: vision of a government of limited, delegating and enumerated powers. 231 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: But do you think that the way that those powers 232 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: have shifted, and you do think that the way that 233 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: the government has in its role in our society has 234 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: evolved over the last two hundred something years, do you 235 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: think that some of that has to do with the 236 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: fact that it was in a grarian society that was 237 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: fueled to a large degree by slave labor over two 238 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: h years ago. Obviously a change in the role of 239 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: the central government was inevitable. But you can accommodate a 240 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: lot of changes in the central government without undoing the 241 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: principle of limited government and enumerated powers. If you could 242 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: pick three things that are policy issues right now that 243 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: you really think need to be changed, but that's what's 244 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: best for the country, what do you think that they 245 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: would be? What areas would they? First of all, I'd 246 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: strike down the mandate and with it the entire healthcare 247 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: plan is. I think it doubles down on all it's 248 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: wrong with the health care system. Second, I would deregulate 249 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: American politics. McCain find gold on all the rest have 250 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: made a perfect message. Why do you think they've set 251 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: out to do something flagrantly unconstitutional, which is ration the quantity, 252 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: limit the content, and dictate the quantity of timing of 253 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: political Citizens United. You approved of that, of course, Oh absolutely. 254 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: The funny thing about Citizens United is some of the 255 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: people who most spociferously dislike it are so enraged they 256 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: haven't had time to read it. New York Times editorially said. 257 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: What Sheldon Nadolson, the Las Vegas casino mogul, has been 258 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: doing and contributing money fifteen at least fifteen million dollars 259 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: to the superpack supporting New Gangbridge, is an example of 260 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: what Citizens United has done to our politics. What Sheldon 261 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: Nadolson is doing has nothing to do with Citizens United. 262 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: What he's been doing has been done in America since 263 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: George Washington to day and has been a constitutional right 264 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: since Buckley B. Vallet in n s. But what do 265 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: you think campaign finance reformed regulation was an attempt to 266 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: address Do you think that we just was just drawing 267 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: at a thin air? Do you think that there was 268 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: a real problem? To shock you by telling you where 269 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: I think it really began where it wasn't Watergate wasn't. 270 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: It was nineteen sixty eight, Geene McCarthy set out to 271 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: challenge Lyndon Johnson. You know how I did it. He 272 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: couldn't do it today because it's illegal. He got about 273 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: eleven wealthy liberals to give him what in those days, 274 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: with serious money, hundred thousand dollars a piece or something, 275 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: And with this large liberal money, he mounted a campaign. 276 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: Democrats were so horrified by this disruption of their party's 277 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: presidential selection that they began because of Jeane McCarthy, an 278 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: attempt to make it more difficult for that to happen. Uh, 279 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: I think you can put the entire necessary and constitutional 280 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: regulation of campaign financing seven words, no cash, full disclosure, 281 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: no foreign So transparency is something that you're not opposed, 282 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: not opposed to. What do you think about do you 283 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: think about public financing? I can just gas, but go 284 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: ahead and let's I'm just teeing up the ball for 285 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: food stamps for politicians. I don't. It is the most 286 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: regularly and accurately polled issue in our country because every 287 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: April fifteenth, when people complete their tax returns, Americans vote 288 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: on this the little box they can shoot and they 289 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: can give three bucks. I think it now is to 290 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: fund politics. It doesn't increase their tax liability at all. 291 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: And percentday American people refuse to do well. It's this 292 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: is the one act of tax defiance that they can exhibit. 293 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: It props when they're filling especially when they're filling out 294 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: that form at that time of year. Anyway, it's not 295 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: gonna happen. You know, this is an issue. I've spent 296 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: a lot of time working on and you know, to me, 297 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: the problem that exists that led to the recent culture 298 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: of campaign finances is we just have lousy people running 299 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: for office. A lot of people don't want to because 300 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: they don't want to raise money. It's gone from one 301 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: full day now. My friends told me that anance. It's 302 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: too they spend forty of the work week raising money. 303 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: I'll solve that problem in ten minutes. Repeal the limits 304 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: on giving. They're raising money and these little dribs and drabs, 305 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: and you don't think there's a quid pro quo attached 306 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: to that fundraising. I do not think that corruption, of 307 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: the appearance thereof it should be addressed that way. Let 308 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 1: them take a hundred thousand dollars from anyone. Let them 309 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: take a hundred thousand dollars from Philip Morris, put it 310 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: on the internet at the close of business every day. 311 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: Let the journalists wallow around and not let the country 312 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: make up its mind the problems you're seeing. The transparency 313 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: is more the issue that transparency is at most the issue. 314 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: What I'm saying is this, the lion's share of political 315 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: money goes to disseminate political speech. Therefore, as justice William 316 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 1: doug said, a liberal icon on the Supreme Court to 317 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: regulate political spending is to regulate the quantity of political speech. 318 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: We're constantly hearing from the political reformers there's too much 319 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,239 Speaker 1: money in politics. There's no other way to translate that, 320 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: and saying there's too much political speech. I disagree. Money 321 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: is not all powerful. You know who the great money 322 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: raisers have been on politics in the last fifty years. 323 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: The really exciting one's George Wallace and Bury gold Water, 324 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: and they did it with small contributions. This country is 325 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: a washing money, they said earlier this year. It turns 326 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: out probably not true, but they said, you know, Barack 327 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: Obama and the Republicans might each raise a billion dollars 328 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: this year. Gosh, every year in March and April, the 329 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: American people spend two billion dollars on Easter candy. The 330 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: country's swimming in money. That's not a lot of money, 331 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: but at least with the money that's spent in easter candy, 332 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: they're getting their money's worth. In my judgment, the most 333 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: remarkable fact is how little money we spend on politics, 334 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: considering the stakes, the trillions of dollars influenced by political decisions. 335 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: We spend remarkably including money that spent on lobby. Now 336 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: that's different. I'm talking about the political the electoral politics. No, 337 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: we spend much more money on lobby and sensibly so 338 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: why sensibly so? Well as you know it's a lobbying 339 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: as one of the few professions I'm on one journalism, Uh, 340 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: clergy is a second, and lobbying is the third profession 341 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: protected by the First Amendment. It's called petitioning for redress 342 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: of grievance. It's a pressuring the government. It's a good 343 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: thing to do. You said that earlier that the people 344 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: who showed up this year we're not the stars in 345 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: the Republican primary period. And you mentioned Mitch Daniels was 346 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: one who you were. Were you hopeful Daniels was going 347 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: to give an amazing just in terms of pure interest, 348 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: not in terms of your own favoring him as a candidate. 349 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: I was four him. It was your candidate at a 350 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: bottle eleven o'clock at night on Saturday May one, ste 351 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: a call. I got a call at home from him. 352 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: Both Mary and my wife and I are old friends 353 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: of his, and he says, I'm not going to go 354 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: at that point, I decided I didn't have a dog 355 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: in this fight. And what about Jeb Bush, Well, you know, 356 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: if his name were Jeb Smith would be a different matter. 357 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: And once you've had Bush Clinton, you believe in you, 358 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: you believe he'd be a worthy candidate. Why based on what, 359 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 1: first of all, his tremendous accomplishments was, particularly regard to 360 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: primary and secondary education in the state of Florida. Is 361 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: it just a grown up, sober, happy, cheerful politician. How 362 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: do you look back on his on his brother's presidency, 363 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 1: now the eight years he was in office, Well, I'm 364 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: not a compassionate conservative. Uh. Do you think he was 365 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: for limited government? No, certainly not. That's well he said 366 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: at one point, when somebody hurts, government has to act. No, 367 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: not really, certainly not the federal government. Uh. The grafting 368 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: on a new entitlement on the Medicare, the prescription drug entitlement, 369 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: the first entitlement we've ever had with no dedicated funding. 370 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: Just threw it out there as I will pay for 371 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: it somehow. He campaigned in two thousand promising a more 372 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: humble foreign policy that didn't work out so well. When 373 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 1: you say I mean I had a friend of mine 374 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: once explained to me in so many words, and this 375 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: is many years ago, so I might not get this 376 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: prepared him. But he articulated a kind of a libertarian 377 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: view which I think sounds similar to yours. And his 378 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,479 Speaker 1: take was that the mantra of the Republican Party was 379 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 1: I'm a winner and I just don't want you to 380 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: ruin my party. You know what I mean. I want 381 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: to be able to put my feet up at the 382 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: end of the after eighteen holes at the clubhouse, and 383 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: I want to enjoy myself. Do you believe that in 384 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: our society that people the federal government is an attempt 385 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: to address to give something to the losers, if you 386 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: will to placate then to the welfare state ALEC is 387 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: a huge regressive transfer of wealth from the working, young 388 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: and middle aged to the retired elderly in the form 389 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: of pensions and medical care. And because the elderly, after 390 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: a lifetime of accumulation, are the wealthiest cohort in the country, 391 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: the welfare state is a regressive transfer of wealthy idea 392 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: that the welfare state exists primarily to help the poor 393 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: is refuted by a cursory reading of the federal budget. 394 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: I believe the transfer goes to the elderly. Sure transfer 395 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: goes to the organized, most muscular interests. Big government is 396 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: big because it has big ambitions. It knows how wealth 397 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: an opportunity ought to be allocated. Big government is therefore 398 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: inevitably responsive to big, powerful interest groups. I subscribe to 399 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: what the poet Robert Frost said. He said, I do 400 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: not want to live in a homogenized society. I want 401 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: the cream to rise. Certainly, you do not want an 402 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: egalitarian society dictated the regardless of your ability to add value, 403 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: everybody gets a trophy. Yeah, it's it's like soccer for 404 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: eight year olds. You showed up, given a trophy. Is 405 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: there anything about the health care bill that you like, 406 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: or the or the or the spirit of it that 407 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: you like? Nothing about? But I'm sure in two thousand, 408 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: seven hundred pages it would be the law of averages. 409 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: He had to get something right. What do you think 410 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,479 Speaker 1: is the proper way to address the healthcare crisis? How 411 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: would you recommend we would solve that problem of health 412 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: insurance for Americans. It's an amazing thing to me, is 413 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: that John McCain got it right in two thousand and eight. 414 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: I say, that's amazing because John is not interested in 415 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: domestic policy. If it doesn't fly or explode, I don't care. 416 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: But John McCain said, look, tax all employer provided health 417 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: insurance is what it obviously is compensation. But give people 418 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: a large tax credit to go into a national market. 419 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: I'll come to that for that in a minute, and 420 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: shop for healthcare among competing approved plans. That is basically 421 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: what all federal employees have, including Barack Obama. That's how 422 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: that's how we do with federal employees. National market is crucial. 423 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: You know, turn on your television. You're going to see 424 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: State Farm auto insurance competing with Progressive Auto insurance, competing 425 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: with All State auto insurance, competing with Geico Auto insurance. 426 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: I could see that with healthcare insurance. Why because we 427 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: are not allowed to buy health care insurance across state lines, 428 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 1: which is so dumb even a caveman can understand. Because 429 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: the state legislatures like to keep this captive industry so 430 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: that when the acupuncture lobby comes to Springfield, Illinois and says, 431 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: we will show our gratitude to you if you will 432 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: just put make it mandatory that acupuncture has to be 433 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: covered in our in the state point of that insurance. 434 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: Not sure, So the plans get more and more comprehensive 435 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,719 Speaker 1: and lavish, and people are forced to buy things they 436 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: don't want to buy. Acupunct your coverage, therapeutic nail trimming, 437 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: and up up, up, up goes the cost of health insurance. Uh, 438 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: let's have a market and competition. So they wanted to 439 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: have like each state wants to be a closed shop 440 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: that each state is. Even though you said you're not 441 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: a compassionate conservative, what's something you think Obama could do? 442 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: You think he has it in him to do, You 443 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:31,959 Speaker 1: might even be doubtful about it. But what's something you 444 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: think you hope Obama will do in the second term 445 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: if he gets selected, he may come to his senses 446 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: in your in your ideology about well, this is not 447 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: coming to his senses, but something he's uniquely qualified to do. 448 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: He's an African American, he's an exemplary husband and father 449 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: and family man. The immeasurably biggest tragedy in American life 450 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 1: today is that seventy four percent of African American children 451 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: are born to mothers with that husband's We know the 452 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: whole range of social pathologies that accompany this particularly a large, 453 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: constantly renewed cohort of unparented adolescent males, meaning chaotic neighborhood 454 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,719 Speaker 1: schools that can't teach all the rest. I would like 455 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: to see Barack Obama address that his community, that he kiss, 456 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: community that he could I mean, it's not his. His 457 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: community is the American community, his roots in the inter city. 458 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: I mean, because he is one of the most the 459 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: greatest things about American life today inve is the the 460 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: picture of the Obama family. Is that something that's especially 461 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: deeply held to you about family and about Pat Morenahan 462 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: was at the time of his death, probably my best friend. 463 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: Pat in nineteen sixty five brought down upon his head 464 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,719 Speaker 1: a reign of acid abuse and accusations of racism because 465 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: he then he was an assistant Secretary of Labor in 466 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: the Johnson administration, published a book on the crisis and 467 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: the Negro family said, there is today a crisis in 468 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: the Negro family because the out of wedlock birth rate 469 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: is I think it was twenty four seventy four to day. 470 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: For American society as a whole, it's thirty three sixty 471 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: of children of all races and ethnicities born to women 472 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: under twenty five born to single women. Family disintegration is 473 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: at the heart of most of our problems. You think 474 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: that's a result of what feminism? No one knows. No 475 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: one knows what it is because it's happened in Wales, 476 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,719 Speaker 1: It's happened all over the world. No one knows what 477 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: it is everywhere with its contraception. Now, it's not just 478 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 1: it's not No one knows and anyone who thinks they 479 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: do and hasn't looked at the problem. Right. And I 480 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: live in a time, and I've lived in a time 481 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: where I never dreamed Obama would beat Hillary Clinton. Never 482 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: and and and it's interesting in those comments you made 483 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: on the television show I watched, where you said that 484 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: the Clinton have lost a lot of their their lure 485 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: and everything. At that time, I just couldn't conceive that 486 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,439 Speaker 1: Hillary would lose the nomination. I really really thought she 487 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: was going to win. And I think I told George 488 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: Stephanopolis in March two thousand seven, March two thousand seven, 489 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: I said Barack Obama will be nominated and elected. I 490 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: just could not see the country saying we're nostalgic for 491 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: the Clinton years, which they weren't, right, They weren't. Well, 492 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: what do you think her political future is? Zero? Zero? 493 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: There's a whole generation of coming candidate Andrew Andrew Cromo 494 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: and New York Governor Malley and Maryland countless people and 495 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: Paul Ryan, all kinds of good people out their governors. 496 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: The rest. What do you think, gangwige Is future is books? 497 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's a books and talking on TV 498 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: and commentating, talking. He does lots of that. You you 499 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: mentioned in one conversation you had that you thought that 500 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: Bill Buckley was the most consequential journalist of the twentieth century. 501 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: Did you have a personal relationship with him? Yes, it 502 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: was a fresh it's a good Well how did you 503 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: meet him? When I was a college professor at the 504 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: University of Toronto, I wrote a few things for National Review, 505 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: and then I went to work in Washington for a 506 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: senator from Colorado, Gordon Ella. Seventy through seventy three. You 507 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: moved to Washington, win to work on the Senate staff 508 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: from the University of Toronto. As seventy two, donned. I 509 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: decided three years was enough. I wanted to go into journalism. 510 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: So I picked up the phone and I called Bill, 511 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: and I said you need a Washington editor of National Review, 512 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: and Bill said, essentially, your right eye do and you're in. 513 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: He hired people like that, Gary Wills, John Didion, people 514 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: like that and me and others who just struck his 515 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: fancy and he hired them. He was good at that. 516 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: I started work for National Review the week Sirika's sentence 517 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: caused James McCord to crack and the Watergate thing began 518 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: to unraveled. So here I was the Washington at a 519 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: or of the flagship conservative publication, and I was quite 520 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: convinced that Nixon was guilty and it was going to 521 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: have to go, and it was really hard on National Review. 522 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: Bill was a wonderful and didn't I'll agree that Nixon 523 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: had to go. We'll tell you tell your story. No, no, no. 524 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: Bill's brother, Senator Buckley, as he then was Jim Buckley, 525 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: was the first to call for Nixon to resign, first 526 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: of the Republican Senate contingent. But we were meeting down 527 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: in the National Review offices on thirty Street, and Bill 528 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: was at one end of the table and I was 529 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: at the other. Nie said, George, UM, what's going to happen? 530 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: And I said, Nixon's guilty in the system works, and 531 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,959 Speaker 1: Bill flashed that electric Jack Nicholson smile and said, I 532 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: think he's guilty in the system doesn't work. Why why, Well, 533 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: he just meant that he'd get away with it. But 534 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: Carl Bernstein said in a in a thing we were 535 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: talking about. I did a program with him, and Carl 536 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: said that border Gate was the last time quote unquote 537 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: the system worked in this country because both sides of 538 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: the aisle work together to try to restore the dignity 539 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: of the presidency. And it was Republicans and Democrats who 540 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: both were seeking the truth and scissor result of that 541 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: thought that Nixon had to go. I think the system 542 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: works more often then people think it doesn't work in 543 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: a tidy and pretty way. But no one ever said 544 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: democracy is Do you think it worked during irround contract? Yeah? Matter, 545 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: Well they stopped it, it was revealed, it was investigated, 546 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: God knows, it was investigated to death by congressional committees, 547 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: by independent on the people. Both both sides. I don't 548 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: want to accuse one side of the other other of this. 549 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: Do you think that both sides because I look at 550 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: the whole world. I've grown up as a pre worter 551 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: Gate post Wartergate world, and you would not want to 552 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: know how Franklin Roosevelt used the FBI and how Franklin 553 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: Roosevelt used the I R S to punish enemies and 554 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: people like that. I'm sure that they did. They don't 555 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: do it anymore. I mean the system is much more 556 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: policed and self policing. I believe it's true. So buck 557 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: so Bucklets of the system didn't work. Now, Buckley was 558 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: the I cost National Review a lot of trouble because 559 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: National Review then as now relied as small magazines generally 560 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: do new on contributions to keep it going, and National 561 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: Review would analyze its male and the memo had a 562 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: category called subscription cancelations. And George will because they were 563 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: the same thing, I was making people mad. Bill never once, 564 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: not once, tried to restrain what I said about Next year. 565 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: He was a wonderful guy and tremendously fair. You look 566 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: back on Nixon, now, what do you think of him? 567 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: The forty years? Next year he resigned? Next year? Ye, 568 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: we're getting old. You can say the Nixon was You 569 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: don't want someone in politics who didn't enjoy it. He 570 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: was so miscast for a profession that is ninety percent 571 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: making small talk with strangers. They have to kind of 572 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: like it. And Nixon was an unhappy man in the profession. 573 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: You want happy people in politics. When did the television thing? 574 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: From from Buckley? When did the television thing begin? Almost immediately? 575 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: I started with National Review and seventy three, and I 576 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: started a syndicated column in seventy four, and I started 577 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: doing television on a regular basis. Did that happen? Who 578 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: approached her? The Post Newsweek stations? They own five owned 579 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: and operated stations at that time. I post that kather 580 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: and Graham. Do you think that you're being so even 581 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: handed with Nixon? Is what had Katherine Graham want to 582 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: hire you for a televisionsion. No, I'll tell you exactly 583 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: what happened. I left the Senate staff to become a 584 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: writer at the end of seventy two, and Agnew was 585 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: crashing around the country maw mowing the press about being 586 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: too liberal, and the press was responding by desperately seeking 587 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: conservative columnists. And Bill Sapphire left the White House, and Sapphire, 588 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,959 Speaker 1: Will and Pat Buchanan, another White House guy, all started 589 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: columns at the same time The Post, Washington Post in 590 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: the New York Times competed for Sapphire the post lost 591 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: and settled for me. That's how that's exactly when you 592 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: started with them. Then still enjoy TV. Yeah, it's as 593 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: you know, television is survival of the briefest. And it's uh, 594 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: it's inherently unsatisfying. I mean, like writing better, oh much more. Yeah, 595 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: it's wonderful pleasure, tactile pleasure putting together a nice paragraph. 596 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: So do you have I mean, when I think you'll 597 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: help clear up this image, I have an image of 598 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: an office of yours with a gigantic corkboard and there's 599 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: about two d and fifty post it's on it with 600 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: different ideas. I mean, you must have it. Just a limitless, 601 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: bottomless ideas for columns you want to write. Actually, I 602 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: have in my pocket. This is not suitable for radio, 603 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: but I have always a list in my wallet with 604 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: the next columns I want to write. Have about a 605 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: dozen pots that are on the stove. Now. When I 606 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: started writing, I asked Bill Buckley the question that I 607 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: now know is that most commonly asked question of a columnist, 608 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: which is how do you come up with ideas of 609 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: things to write about? Bill said, the world irritates me 610 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: three times a week. I would say, we say the 611 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,839 Speaker 1: world irritates or amuses or piques my curiosity. Do you 612 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: read in the paper? Man? In print? Radio, listen to 613 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: and watch on TV? I don't listen to radio. Why 614 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: because when I'm in my car, I'm listening to books, 615 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 1: audio books always. I listen to audio books. I've got 616 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: my little smartphone here. I have twenty books on here. 617 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: I'm listening to right now. A biography was coming up 618 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: to the studio. I was listening to a biography of 619 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: President Monroe. Television. I watch, you know, if it didn't 620 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: on ESPN, I'm to miss it. I go in the morning, 621 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: turn onto Major League Baseball Network at seven thirty, and 622 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: turn it off when I leave. Um. I read my 623 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: good friend Charles Kraudhammer. Bob Samuelson writes about economics for 624 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,760 Speaker 1: the Post, every Post, Wall Street Journal, New York Times, 625 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: all the newspapers. Yeah, in print. Not God. Now me 626 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: to my friends, I want to tear it up and 627 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 1: file it. When you're not working. What do you do 628 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: go to baseball games? You're a national san I'm a 629 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: cub fan. Cut your cup fan? Yeah, proximity year there 630 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: at the Nationals and I have a handicap son works 631 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: in the clubhouse of the Nationals. How old is your son? Forty? 632 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 1: You have how many children? And you have been married 633 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: twice twice? And you're how many kids with your first 634 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: wife three? And you have one child with your second one? Yep, 635 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,720 Speaker 1: he's a sophomore in dying to ask George Will this question, 636 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: what's your advice to me on my second marriage? Well, 637 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: you know it's the definition of second marriage is the 638 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 1: triumph of hope over experience. As I say to people, 639 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: even people from the Deep South, visit Grants tumb every 640 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: now and then. You know, we gotta put the past 641 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 1: behind us. Love is more wonderful the second time around. 642 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: All the Great American Songbook, The Great American Songbook contains 643 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: all of philosophy anyone needs. Yeah, maybe you're right, George Will. 644 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: The Washington Journalism Review named him best writer any subject. 645 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:07,479 Speaker 1: After talking with Will, one question stayed in my mind. Hello, Hello, Yes, 646 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: so I called him up. So my question for you 647 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: is your political philosophy if you will makes me think 648 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 1: that you believe that people will do the right thing 649 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: if left alone, without government interference, without government regulation, that 650 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: you trust that people will do the right thing if 651 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: left to their own devices. Do you still feel that way? 652 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,959 Speaker 1: Not exactly? Universal free public education, the requirement to send 653 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 1: children to schools of some sort indicates a powerful belief 654 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: entertained by the Enlightenment founders of our country that people 655 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: need to be schooled in the virtues necessary for a 656 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: free society. Far sightedness, discipline, all of that. So the 657 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: more freedom you have, the more care you need to 658 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: take in nurturing people suitable for it. I do believe 659 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: that the American people have fairly sturdy virtues, and that 660 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: left to their own devices, which is to say, left 661 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: to make voluntary arrangements and transactions with other free people, 662 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: will more often than not a do the right thing 663 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 1: or be do better than any alternative arrangement for advancing society. 664 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 1: I lost the bet. What what was the bet? My 665 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 1: bet was I would ask you, if left to their 666 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 1: own devices, would people do the right thing? And you 667 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: would simply say yes and hang up the phone. No, 668 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: not that temple. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening 669 00:38:54,239 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: to here's the thing before un