WEBVTT - Pats from the Past: Episode 6, Steve Nelson 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:08.680 It's kind out for another episode of Pats from the Past, 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:11.879 brought you by who but WB Nations. You're one stop 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.960 shop for all your business needs. Matt Smith pleased to 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:17.639 be joined with Brian Warrior, the executive director of the 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.759 Patriot's Hall of Fame, presented by Raytheon and who better 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.960 to talk Pats from the Past Brian than one of 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:26.720 the members of the Patriots Hall of Fame. Number fifty 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:28.880 seven on your scorecard, but number one in your heart, 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.919 the great linebacker Steve Nelson Nelly, thanks for joining us all, 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:34.479 Thanks for having me, Matt as good to see us 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.559 always see. Nice to see you, Nice to see you. 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:40.000 How's life? Tell everybody what you're doing right now, Steve? 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:42.280 For Patriot fans who want to know what's Steve Nelson 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:46.080 up to these days? Well, for the last last fifteen years, 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:49.640 I've worked for Lighthouse Computer Services out of Lincoln, Rhode Island, 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:53.160 and now we've kind of transitioned to Spyglass. We sold 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:55.360 off our IBM part of the business last year and 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:59.880 now we're kind of we're concentrating on our Microsoft business 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:04.720 and we're a goal partner of Microsoft. Something Matt I'm 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.959 telling you, I am not very technical. So every I'm 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.320 in these meetings, I'm listening to acronyms, and there are 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:12.720 all these acronyms going on. I'm trying to figure out 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.480 what the acronym stands for. So by the time I 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:17.840 kind of get like, if there's a five letter acronym, 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.720 I got two of the letters. You know, they they 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.240 you should have told you. That's a real generally a 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.160 findable offense to have your phone on. But we'll let 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.880 it go this time, first time defense. Yeah, so I'm 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.200 just trying to figure out the acronyms. Anyways, And uh, 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:34.120 but it's been really great, and UH met a lot 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:36.280 of nice people. And I work for like I we're 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:38.360 talking earlier, I worked for one of my best friends. 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:40.160 So it's it's been very good. Do you like it? 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:42.840 I do. I like interacting with the people what we 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:45.840 And again there's no stress, there's no you know, I 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.680 don't I don't have to make certain numbers and make 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.200 certain phone calls or whatever. So you like this business 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.680 better than the restaurant business you after you retired with 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:57.520 bill en Ki that was a different deal. That was 0:01:57.560 --> 0:01:59.960 a different deal, Brian, that was that was interesting again 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.160 and and it's it's not a business to get into 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.840 if you've never been in a business before, because you know, 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:08.560 obviously there's uh, you don't realize how many partners you 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:10.840 have and you gotta make a number in that business. 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.040 Yes you do, Doc and nellis Doc and Nelly's, but 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.200 you don't realize that one of the bartenders is your 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.360 silent partnering he silently takes money. You don't know that 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.720 he did it. But again, that was fun too. That 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.840 was that I got, uh, you know, I worked with 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.320 billing Kitis and my old teammates, so that was cool. 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:34.480 But no, gosh, no, don't no, I'm not not that 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:38.760 I know. I meant the one thing, Matt, that that 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.359 one thing I do remember, it was very uncomfortable, was 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.400 when the orth Winders getting his group to buy the Patriots. Uh, 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:49.000 we boycotted Budweiser than you know, as I just to 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:51.560 get publicity. It wasn't you know, we weren't doing very well, 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.160 so let's get some boot boots. You know, it was 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.240 we're boycotting, you know. But ab and I happen to 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:00.360 have a really good friend who ran the distributorship in 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:02.880 Massachusetts and he'd done me a lot of favors and 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.560 I felt awful. But I was like the minority minority owners, 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:07.960 so I didn't make I wasn't making the calls and 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:10.399 called me, I was were you doing? You know, you're 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.640 talking bad about Budweiser now and stuff, and goes, no, 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:14.960 it's not me, it's you know, it's my partner link, 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.360 you know, and uh so it was very uncomfortable, but 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:21.079 it was interesting. That's interesting. Tough to stay in business too. 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:23.320 When the Patriots games you can't even show him. I 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.280 blacked out. Absolutely. We used to sneak some feed in 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:27.720 once in a while and then get a letter from 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.079 the league saying, you know, what are you doing? But well, 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.839 here's one that my guess is most Patriot fans who 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.400 follow the team and everything probably don't know this about 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.840 Steve Nelson. Let's start at the beginning, other than it's 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:41.520 in North Dakota. Where is North Dakota State? And how 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:45.440 do you get to New England Steve from North Dakota State? Like, 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:47.920 that's not it's not George, it's not all of them. 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.040 I'm surprised at such a well traveled guy you are. 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:53.720 You have to ask that question. You know, North Dakota 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.400 State when I was. When I was, you know, going 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:58.520 to school there, we were the third largest nuclear power 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.320 in the world. We had all those missiles pointed at 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.360 Russia there. So if we were succeeded from the Union, 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.360 you all would have known where North Dakota was. But uh, yeah, 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.040 it was. It was the best decision I ever made. 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.720 I grew up outside of Minneapolis, and I got recruited 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.120 by Minnesota. And I had a kind of an incident 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.080 at Minnesota during my recruiting trip that I really turned 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:21.279 me off. You know, the coach basically called me a 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.960 different name. And I'll tell you the whole story. He 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:25.960 brought me in and sat me from him and his 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.560 big desk he had, and he said, son, if you 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:31.719 come to this school, we'll beat Ohio State, we'll beat Michigan, 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:34.880 we'll go to the Rose Bowl. We'll be nationally ranked. 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:36.520 And then he said, come here, I'm home. And take 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.640 him down to the to the to the field. And 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.240 we walked down the stadium steps and got down to 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.080 the bottom and he said, can't you hear eighty thousand 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:48.479 people channing, Go Pete, Go Pete. I said, coach, my 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.839 name is Steve. He goes oh yes, right, go Steve, 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:52.760 Go Steve. So I kind of figured out that I 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.720 wasn't that really highly recruited guy he wanted. And I 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.200 went to North Dakota State, which was the best thing 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.320 I ever did. Great cult trip. I'm incredible culture that 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.880 what that's a good decision, by the way, to not 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:05.839 go to that school if they don't know who my 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:10.400 name is, like probably given that speech to multiple people 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.159 if you can't remember the name, right, right, So Steve, 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.719 take us through your draft situation. Because back in nineteen 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:20.160 seventy four, and while scouting was was a big deal. 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.560 You know again, North Dakota State, my guesses, is not 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:27.000 necessarily where you're going to find a lot of football players. 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.720 So somebody had to dress some work on Steve Nelson, right, 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:31.919 And they had they had a I don't know what 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.839 they call them. They had calm. They didn't have combines, 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:36.560 but they had they had a group of teams that 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:40.480 would get together and share the scouting. So they had 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:44.240 blessed Stow was yeah, yeah, And so they came around 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:46.760 and they did all the physical things. They time you 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.160 and you do some you know lifting, and do some 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:54.080 you know footwork and all that stuff. Um, but I, uh, again, 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.960 I played on really good teams and I had Ron 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:00.240 Earhart with my my head football coach, and here when 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.320 I was a sophomore, he said, you know, you've got 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.800 a chance to be in the NFL. And coming from him, 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.200 who I you know, man, I really respected. I took 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:09.960 that to heart and I really kind of focused on 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:12.960 not just graduating, but you know, giving it a shot. 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:18.320 And I was very surprised that, you know, the Vikings 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.960 brought me down during the fall because I had hurt 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.360 my shoulder and they wanted to look at me and 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.280 make sure the shoulder was all right, and they kind 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:27.600 of they were a very good team at the time, 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:29.200 and you know, one of the guys said, you know, 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:31.400 we're thinking about making your first round raft choice and 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:33.599 they were going to be drafting thirty second or thirty 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:37.039 first or whatever. But that didn't happen. And then I 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.080 got drafted by the Patriots, number thirty four and second round. Wow. 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:48.040 So Fargo, North, Dakota Fargo his coach and really maybe 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:52.159 your your benefactor for your mentor to say this guy 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.760 can play in the NFL. That's pretty interesting. Who then, 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.359 by the way, comes along and coaches you in the 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.640 pros later on. So and it was a head coach here. Yeah. Absolutely. 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:02.919 So what I'm saying is there a bigger Steve Nelson 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.880 fin maybe than Ron Earhart? Or was how instrumental was 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:08.839 Ron Earhart making sure that Steve Nelson the man? It 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.680 was huge, you know, and I'm you know, coach has 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:16.040 passed away, and he was probably, outside my dad, the 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.920 most significant coach I ever had. You know, I not 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.960 even questioned about it. Wow wow. Through college and then 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.080 you know with the early times with the Patriots, I 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.160 know he had kind of change his style because you know, 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:29.040 back in college he'd grabbed one of the running backs 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:30.440 and kind of shake their you know, grabbed by the 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:33.280 mask and shake their head and tripped him or whatever. Well, 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.960 you know, when you're running backs are Sam Cunningham, you 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.640 don't do that. So Ron had a kind of changes 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.960 is a modus. But uh, yeah, he was a great 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.320 coach and a great man, and obviously I'm very thankful 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.120 for all the things he did for me. And Chuck 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.000 Fairbanks hired him here, right, he did. And so what 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.960 was it like playing for Chuck Fairbanks? Who really you know, 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.560 Bill Parcels gets a lot of attention around here for 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.320 sort of helping to change the culture in the early nineties. 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.440 Chuck Fairbanks really did that here in the early seventies, 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:08.080 absolutely absolutely, and I think, uh, I think coach Fairbanks, Uh, 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:10.760 he he had a great coaching staff, and I kind of, 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.440 I think, kind of showed all the players that, um, 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.840 he was willing to have guys who knew more about 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.480 positional play and you know, courting offense and defense than 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:22.040 he did. And he wasn't at all intimidated by it. 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.320 You know, he wanted guys around him who were smarter 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:27.040 than he was. And uh, I think in this business 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.480 that doesn't happen very often. You know, it's it's it's 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:37.160 it shows you that that person is confident, absolutely right, right, yes, absolutely, 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:39.720 And he he he didn't say a lot, you know, 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:41.600 he wasn't a guy that would would say a lot 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:43.800 of you know, have a lot of stories or you know, 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.000 messages for us, but you knew who was in charge, 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:49.640 and he, uh, you know, he made it known that 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:53.400 he was the decision maker. And uh that's when back 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.560 in seventy eight, when he decided to move on to 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.199 Colorado and he came in and said, you know, I'm 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.520 the head coach through the playoffs. We all knew that 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:02.360 he was going to be gone, so he didn't have 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.320 that same you know stick that he had before. You know, 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.840 So it was you know, that was unfortunate, uh, you know, 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.280 for for all of us players and and for all 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:12.760 the coaches too, because you know, we had a good 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.040 team at that time, We had home field advantage and 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.880 first sure first playoff game, and just didn't get done. 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.360 You know, a person on that staff I think I'm 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:22.000 right on this, so please correct me if I'm not. 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.480 But a person on that staff that Patriot fans today 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:29.560 are very well aware of is Ernie Adams. Yes, right, Yes, 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.120 What were your impressions, you know, as a player on 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:34.360 that team with Ernie Adams, who was just a young 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:39.400 kid back then, wasn't he he was? He was? Ernie 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.920 was you know when you look at a bunch of 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.160 guys and you look at one guy and you see 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:49.120 him and he looks like he's out of place guy 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.480 of Arnie. But Ernie was obviously Ernie. Uh. He brings 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.679 a lot to coaching staff. And uh again I think 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.600 it was because Fairbanks, you know, again, had that insight 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:01.680 that he is going to make a difference down his 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.680 staff that he got he got Ernie. So Ernie worked 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:08.840 for Chuck, he worked for Bill Belichick, works for Bill Belichick. 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.400 Can you compare? I know you haven't played for Bill Belichick, 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:16.400 but he certainly brought some of those Chuck fairbanks defensive 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:21.160 philosophies are part of Bill Belichick's defensive philosophies. Can you 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.240 compare the two at all? Well, I think I have. 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.960 You know, one thing Brian too, is they both they 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.840 both were they had all decisions done personnel. You know, 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:32.640 back then, Chuck was a GM as well as a 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.040 head coach, and one thing he was really good at 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.400 was finding players. You know, his first draft he got 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:43.880 Hannah Cunningham, Darrell Stingley. You know, he really knew how 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:47.880 to good good players, Stanley Raymond. Yeah, and I think Nelson. 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.680 I think Belichick's like that too. You know, I think 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:54.080 he's got a you knows X and os, but he 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.880 also and I think Bill is much more. You know, 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.240 he's so he takes a deep dive in the both 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:02.520 sides of the ball. Where coach Fairbanks, you know, he 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:05.240 ran the wishbone at OU and then he came up 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.200 here and he hired you know, guys who run to 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:13.240 install a professional offense and defense. So obviously their their 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:16.680 backgrounds and everything else. You know, Bill was a background 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:18.839 in pro football. You know, Chuck was a college coach. 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.800 So it's it's different in that regard, but there's a 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:24.040 lot of similarities on the way they put things together, 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:27.000 how they formed their staffs, what they thought was important, 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.280 and they're both very They rant like a business, you know, 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.880 and that's what you got to do. As much as 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:37.600 you'd like to, you know, develop friendships and relationships with players, 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:40.720 it doesn't really work out well in the end because 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:45.000 you know, they get players, their talents get reduced and 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.960 everything else. You gotta make tough decisions. It ends for everybody, right, 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.839 it ends for everybody. Yeah, absolutely, Steve, you rattled off 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.000 a bunch of names. Um, Today's Patriot fans are spoiled. 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.920 You know, they've seen six Super Bowl championships. They've seen 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:00.600 some unbelievable teams, teams that really absolutely should have won 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:02.679 the Super Bowls, and maybe some teams that caught people 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:07.880 by surprise. But you rattled off some names. Hannah Stingley, Uh, 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:15.040 see him, Cunningham, Raymond, Clayboy came that nineteen seventy six team. 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.560 I can tell you as as a kid growing up 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.000 in New England, always will have a special place in 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.320 my heart. Can you tell the fans out there how 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.000 loaded that team was and how good that was a team? 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:27.880 What was the score when you beat Oakland at home 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:29.600 that year in the regular season? I think it was 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:32.199 forty six to ten, right, I know it was. That 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.600 was that was a super super Bowl score right, by 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.679 the way, yesterday was the anniversary of the Super Bowl game. 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.200 We'll get to that January twenty six. But you you 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.040 beat the bag out of the Raiders in the regular season, 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:51.959 steve that team domination so right. I was at that game, 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:53.200 by the way, I remember it as a kid. I 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:54.920 was sitting in the end zone. Yes, And then we 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.040 play him out there, and you know, they gotta they 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:58.920 lost one game all year, right, and that that was 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.520 a game they play against up us up here, and 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:03.480 we went out there and we just matched up against him, 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.880 and we just we just and we had Russ Francis, 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.200 you know another guy. Yeah, you had Russ Francis, Leon Gray, 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.199 John Hannah billing Kite. It's I mean, those are pretty 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.720 that's pretty good side of the ball, absolutely know. And 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:20.520 then again it was guys like Cunningham and Donnie Calhoun 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:24.720 and Andy Johnson and so a lot of really great players. Um, 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:27.960 but that was that was one of the things that 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.600 that's ill. You know, there's not a lot, not a 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:35.400 lot of things I remember about playing outside of my 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.600 teammates and stuff like that, but that's one game that 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.840 I'll always really regret the outcome up because it was 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.680 not right. It was just, you know, it was an 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.800 awful call at the worst time of the game. And 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:52.120 uh thine third and nineteen third night in the game 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.760 roughing the passer on Ray Hamiltons. Now, let me ask 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.560 you a question. We call it the phantom roughing the passenger. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.040 When you do you ever watch that play if you 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.719 watched it since, and do you think it would be 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.920 roughing the pastor today? Yes, okay, absolutely be roughing the battle. 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.400 He breathed on him. Yeah, he didn't get a hand 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.400 to the head. But it wasn't like, oh no, it 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.400 was inadvertent. It's kind of following through. Yeah, yeah, it 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.400 wasn't it. It was like I'm trying to block the pass. Hey, 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:22.520 you would you would play you play against that team, 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.280 especially they were playing right, you know, when when the 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.480 ball is shrown on one numbers on the other side, 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.760 on the other hash mark I got like Tatum or 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.120 Atkinson his clotheslining guy who's just running down the field. 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.280 You know. So it was a different, you know, a 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:41.000 whole different game back then. But that was tough. And again, 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.920 I think when when I was on that team, I was, 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:45.560 you know, it was my third year and we had 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.640 you know, had Steve Grogan was a second year quarterback, 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:50.600 and he had Rush France as a second year player, 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:52.840 and and all and again all these great players, and 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.520 he said, well, we'll get other shots. It didn't happen, 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.080 you know, So it really that's that's what really kind 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:00.680 of hurt. You mentioned Steve, Tatum and a and Brian. 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:02.280 I didn't have this in my notes, but it's hard 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:05.280 to talk about Tatum and Atkinson and not bring up 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.520 the other person that Steve mentioned a little while ago. 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.160 And you talk about tough things, Steve is seeing what 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:15.320 happened to Darryl that that I think that was probably 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:19.240 at the time, the most traumatic thing I ever went through. 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:23.240 And uh, you know, again, I've been very lucky in 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:27.320 my life, you know, And but that ride we got on. 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:32.760 You know, obviously we knew Daryl was severely hurt, and uh, 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.520 it happened in the first half, and they got you know, 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.600 we played the game and Coach Fairbanks he said, don't 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:40.240 shake their hands. Get the locker room. I got to 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.920 talk to you guys. So we just immediately ran into 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.000 the locker room and he told us, how you know Daryl, 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.920 you know, the first kind of prognosis of Daryl's situation, 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.080 and he's Darrell's going to stay in the hospital obviously 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:55.920 out there, and he's in the coaches I think he said, 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:57.560 a couple of coaches are going to stay with him. 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.640 And then we got on that plane flight you go 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.360 from Oakland to Boston, which is for four and a 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.680 half hours, and we got about Las Vegas and we 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.440 had to turn around because of engine failer or something 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.080 wrong with the plane. So now it was just more 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.240 thinking about Darryl and I can I can never I'll 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:16.120 never forget how quiet that plane. You know, no one 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.880 was talking, I mean just it was just dead silence. 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.920 Because Darrell was a great player, but he was a 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.600 better person. He was just such a just a you know, 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.800 a person. When he came into a room, y'all, you know, 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:31.200 started smiling because you know he was, you know, going 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.680 to be kind and nice and everything else, and and 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:40.440 smart and great player and great athlete, um and great teammate. 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:42.600 And it was just the worst thing that you can 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.400 possibly imagine. And then what the family endured was you know, 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:50.040 I couldn't imagine. You talked about roughing the pastor with 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.360 Ray Hamilton, and you know, I sort of mentioned like 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.080 how that would be been called in today's modern NFL. 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.040 I mean for Patriot fans out there that aren't familiar 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.520 with it, and you I'm not I'm not advocating to 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:02.280 go and look at the video, but if you see 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:06.960 what happened, um, I mean, that person would probably be 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:11.280 incarcerated today, Steve, if something similar happened in today's game. 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.119 As to what happened. That's how violent it was. Yeah, 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.480 you know, and it was a preseason game, right, you know, 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.800 and these two guys were veteran players, right, you know, 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.800 you'd think he'd have a little expect for the other player. 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:24.879 And I think, you know, you don't, you don't, he 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.359 doesn't see it comment and all that stuff. So yeah, 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.919 that was you can't see that play at the Page's 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.320 Hall of Fame. Yeah, no, no no, no, no, no no, I'm 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.879 talking about I'm talking about Stingley. Yeah, we don't have 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:39.280 that play. It's it's here's a guy who had a 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.159 phenomenal NFL career, you know, and it is talking about 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.399 all the blessings that he has in life and no 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:46.639 regrets or anything like that. And to this day, to 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.959 hear that something like that, that Daryl Stingley, it stayed 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:52.800 with him and affected that team. How could it not? 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.359 Steve have affected that team absolutely absolutely? And you know, uh, 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:01.439 when Daryl made his first U turn visit to the stadium, 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:03.640 I don't know if you remember that played the Steelers 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.320 on Monday Night football the next year and the wheelchair 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.840 wave into the crowd and no, they would not stop 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.639 cheering for him, right, and you know we're all saying, 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.600 you know, cheer forever man this he deserves it, you know. 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:21.600 And uh, but that was really um okay, he's what 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.600 he how he turned his life around after that incident 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:26.960 and and made such a positive impact and so many 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:31.560 people is awesome. And I think it's I think the 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:35.080 kid that plays else for else you now that his grandson. 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:36.680 I'm not sure what the relation is, but I think 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.560 it's a family relation. I think I googled it at 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.879 one point during when I saw him playing, and I think, yeah, 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:44.520 I think that's a relationship. He was like the number 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.520 one cornerback coming out of high school. Yeah. Yeah. So 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:52.120 the the disappointment of seventy six, and I don't want 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:53.959 to say that it was a window closing, but if 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.520 we look back in hindsight, maybe that's the case. You know, 0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:01.080 in seventy eight, were you floored that Chuck came in 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.240 and was the team floor that Chuck came in and said, Hey, 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.760 by the way, I'm going to Colorado? Yeah? That was 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:12.280 that was that really divided the locker room too. I 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.280 mean that was you know, guys who were kind of 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:19.640 you know, uh supportive of coach Fairbanks and his decision 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:21.960 to move on, and uh, you know, I guess there 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:24.240 had been some type of button heads with the Sullivan's 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.240 or something, I don't know, and then the players who 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:31.560 were really uh you know, thought he was you know, 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:33.920 walking out on us, and and so there's a real 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:39.440 division in the locker room and uh and the Sullivan's 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.480 they first of all, they suspended him and the last 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:44.320 game of the year was a Monday night game in Miami, 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:47.000 and that was you know, we had no head coach, 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.440 and ron Erhart ran the offense and Hank Low ran 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:52.520 the defense, and you know, we had two pregame speeches, 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.240 but he was like an audition, you know, it was 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.520 coming to the next coach. And then a half time 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.840 we had two coaching making adjustments. And then so it's 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:04.600 kind of a you know, you don't stend a chance 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.720 against Houston, then Steve, do you? I mean, how do 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:10.400 you get that team together ready to play? Yeah? Right, yeah, 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:14.240 and you know, and I think if it would have 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.760 been a more of a skill on skill game, you know, 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.440 but they were you know, they were Earl Campbell run 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:21.200 the ball thirty times, So it was more of a 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.240 you had you had to be, you know, physically and 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.960 mentally into it to play well against him. So yeah, 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:30.520 it was tough to come over. But again, and and 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:32.400 that's the one thing you learn, if you have an 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:35.440 excuse to lose, you'll lose, you know. And and that's 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:37.440 that's a lot of coaches don't want to have any 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.320 excuses to lose because they know how players think, and 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.480 that's your mentality sometimes and that one was put on 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.600 a silver platyf for you guys. Basically yeah right, yeah. 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.639 So then Ron Hairhart takes over you later play for 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:54.320 Ron Meyer. Raymond Barry talk about the different head coaches 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:58.120 that you had. You spoke about Ron Ron Earhart already 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:02.119 Ron Meyer. You know, funny story. I was doing radio 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:04.560 down in Providence and we had Ron Meyer on the 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:09.120 radio and he was talking about Billy Sullivan and this 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:12.479 is his words, not mine. He talked about lining up 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:15.159 at his grave to piss on it. So that's the 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.919 relationship he had with the owner at that time. I 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.560 assumed that was after you got fired. Oh this was 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:26.040 like two years ago, well after and coach Meyer's no 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:30.679 longer with us, he was, and again it was it 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.280 was yeah, I got I gotta tell one story though, 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:38.359 that about that that Oakland Raider game, and uh we 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.639 had Russ Francis was a tremendous athlete and he I 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:44.200 think he what did Howard Coachell Collins chief he the 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.520 uh all world all world tight end, a world all 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.680 world tight end and was that legit? That was close? 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:52.760 You know that caspern and you know they had another 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:56.320 good ones round. But uh, he also I think was 0:21:56.400 --> 0:22:01.720 a national record holder of the javelins. Yes, so he 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:04.080 could throw a football sixty five seventy yards in the air. 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.760 And we had this little tight end reverse pass, you know. 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:09.879 He had one receiver you know, kind of stockwalk and 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:12.040 then run like a post. And Russ would get this 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:14.840 tight end a round like and really sell it like 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:16.840 a running play and just throw the ball as far 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.560 as he could and then had you know, the receiver 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:24.560 run under it. And I remember Russ runs to play 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:30.400 and we all knew it was coming, and he hesitates, 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.240 and then he really doesn't throw it. He kind of 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:36.359 runs and tries to you know, tries to tries to 0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:38.800 act like a quarterback, you know, and he gets gets 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:41.080 tackled and he comes off the field. It was a 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:43.600 third down play and one of the coach goes, wait, 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:44.920 what do you do when it? He goes, I was 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:50.760 reading the coverage. That's that's Russ. That was Russ. You know, 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:54.760 he was he was very serious. He took himself very seriously. 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:57.320 A day later on broke his nose in the game 0:22:57.359 --> 0:22:59.840 and he came off the sidelines and Steve Zabel grabbed 0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:01.960 his knows that you know, you know, he shoved some 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:03.480 cotton up his nose and kind of straight, and I 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:05.680 wasn't get in there. We need you. Absolutely, and Russ 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:11.160 grew up Patriot fans today understandably Rob Gronkowski going into 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:13.200 the Hall of Fame. Whenever his time goes, he'll go 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:14.960 in in the first ballot. Everything like that was Russ 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:19.480 Francis Rob Gronkowski before Gronk ever came around. The brute 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:25.960 strength maybe that Gronk had, but wacky, yes, and unbelievably talented, 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:28.639 right they had, They had their own deal. You mean, 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:32.760 they were individuals. Um. I watched Gronkowski. I'm just amazed 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:35.720 that a guy he just he just I'm sorry about that. 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:41.719 That's a fine. Um. Listen, these new these new electronics 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:45.359 kill me. But I think I think at the time 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:48.320 there was no one like Gronkowski. I think, you know, 0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:51.560 he can rental seams and and just it just you know, 0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:54.160 and Russell was a lot like him. But I just there, 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:56.840 you know, I'd take Gronkowski just from the mental aspect, 0:23:56.920 --> 0:23:59.600 and Russ didn't like to practice. Russ kind of has 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.200 his own him. I love Russ, but Russ, you know, 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:04.800 kind of did his way and he was a great talent. 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:08.320 But Runkowski is just such a better player, I think 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:13.800 my opinion, So foot to your side of the ball here, 0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:17.680 talk about tight ends. You were an inside linebacker in 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:22.000 an era where the running game was certainly more prominent 0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:24.720 in the passing game, although that probably changed later in 0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:28.720 your career when Marino was was coming of age. Seventeen 0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:33.920 career interceptions, Now, what a player like you? And you 0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:37.080 know I was young, So forgive me here, what a 0:24:37.119 --> 0:24:39.320 player like you even be on the field for three 0:24:39.400 --> 0:24:43.800 downs today? And why why were you so able to 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:46.200 be so effective in coverage because you're known as a 0:24:46.280 --> 0:24:49.360 run stopper. Two hundred and seven tackles nineteen eighty four, 0:24:49.840 --> 0:24:53.359 seventeen hundred and seventy six tackles in your career, but 0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:58.200 seventeen interceptions. Yeah, I to answer your question, No, I'd 0:24:58.240 --> 0:24:59.960 be like a one or two down player right now. 0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:05.440 And uh um, but I know most of my interceptions 0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:07.440 were in zone defenses. You know, I was not a 0:25:07.480 --> 0:25:10.119 great man and man cover guy. I that's again the 0:25:10.200 --> 0:25:12.840 way that the game has changed so much now, you know, 0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:15.080 they kind of just you got five eligible receivers and 0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:17.720 you try to spread them across the field and then 0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:21.320 run patterns that you know, the quarterback and read and 0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:23.640 and and then distribute the ball. So it was much 0:25:23.680 --> 0:25:25.840 different game, you know. And you look back at those 0:25:25.960 --> 0:25:29.520 those stat lines, Brian, it was like, you know, I 0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:32.200 played Joe Nate against Joe Namath, you know, thinking through 0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:34.399 the ball eleven times the first time he played against us. 0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:37.359 You know, these like six eleven for ninety four yards, 0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:39.040 and it was kind of a typical day, you know. 0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:41.560 And and when you saw that stat line, you realize 0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:43.200 how bad you got beat too, because all they do 0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:46.639 is run the ball um. So yeah, it's much different 0:25:46.640 --> 0:25:51.440 game now. And you know, I I like watching I 0:25:52.200 --> 0:25:55.879 really do enjoy watching and seeing the athletic abilities guys, 0:25:57.600 --> 0:26:00.920 But I don't think it's strategically like it was before 0:26:01.000 --> 0:26:02.440 when you had to step the running game, then you 0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:04.399 ran play action off that, and then you you know, 0:26:04.680 --> 0:26:08.680 you didn't all these personnel categories weren't you know, weren't 0:26:08.760 --> 0:26:11.080 like that back then. You may take a tight end 0:26:11.080 --> 0:26:12.720 off the field and put a wide receiver in, or 0:26:12.760 --> 0:26:14.560 you take a backup and put a wide receiver in, 0:26:14.680 --> 0:26:17.440 and it's not the five wides and all that stuff. 0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:19.880 Do you appreciate a team like San Francisco who sits 0:26:19.920 --> 0:26:22.840 here and goes, hey, we're averaging six yards of pop. Oh, yeah, 0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:25.120 you know what, We're just going to continue to run it. Yeah, 0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:27.120 you can't stop it, then we're gonna run it, right. 0:26:27.400 --> 0:26:30.200 And I think they was an inside linebacker that you 0:26:30.240 --> 0:26:33.120 don't stop it. But if you can't stop it, we're 0:26:33.119 --> 0:26:35.280 just gonna run it down your throat right right, and 0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:37.359 you really break them. And I think that's what you 0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:40.000 saw against Uh, you know, and I don't know what 0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:42.240 the Packers were doing. You know, I thought for sure 0:26:42.320 --> 0:26:46.560 they stopped you know, make Garoppolo beach and uh. But yeah, 0:26:46.680 --> 0:26:49.040 back back in the day, it was much different. And 0:26:51.440 --> 0:26:55.000 you know, again, players you adapt. Obviously, you adapt because 0:26:55.000 --> 0:26:57.200 the college game has changed so much, and the pros 0:26:57.200 --> 0:26:59.159 have taken a lot from the college game too, so 0:26:59.359 --> 0:27:01.560 you kind of, you know, would adapt, I assume. But 0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:04.320 to answer the original question, I'd be a one or 0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:06.720 two down player. Is it just is it just that 0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:10.320 the game isn't as physical in that at the line 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:14.320 of scrimmage generally speaking? Today? I mean back when you're 0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:19.280 talking about teams routinely lined up and ran the ball. 0:27:19.320 --> 0:27:21.600 You're in nineteen seventy eighteen ran for three thousand, one 0:27:21.680 --> 0:27:24.200 hundred and fifty six yards, a record that stood until 0:27:24.240 --> 0:27:27.320 this season when the Ravens broke it because their quarterback 0:27:27.440 --> 0:27:31.840 ran for over a thousand yards. But you knew that 0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:36.040 was coming, and yet sometimes you couldn't stop it. Is 0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:38.560 it just a matter of sometimes the other team, just 0:27:38.680 --> 0:27:42.280 as more physical breaks your will, breaks your spirit. Yeah, 0:27:42.359 --> 0:27:46.080 And I think again it's you know, you back when 0:27:46.119 --> 0:27:50.960 I played, the emphasis was on being physical and running 0:27:50.960 --> 0:27:53.760 the football, establishing the running game. And you know in 0:27:53.840 --> 0:27:56.840 our conference, we in our division, we had you know O. J. Simpson, 0:27:56.960 --> 0:28:02.600 you know, you had a lot of marquee backs. And defensively, 0:28:02.800 --> 0:28:05.920 what you first thing you did, we practiced was defeating 0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:08.600 a block. You know, and in the offensive line instead 0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:11.560 of pass pro, they did run. They learn how to 0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:14.159 run a run block and you know, the different schemes 0:28:14.240 --> 0:28:17.119 run blocking, and that became a real priority. So I 0:28:17.200 --> 0:28:19.600 think when the priority from the offensive line went from 0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:22.119 running the ball to throwing the ball, I think the 0:28:22.200 --> 0:28:25.080 defensive priority kind of changed from you know, taking on 0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:28.120 a blocker and defeating a block to you know, kind 0:28:28.160 --> 0:28:31.520 of what happens when it was passed. Do I have 0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:33.560 a man it covers you. I have a zone. We 0:28:33.720 --> 0:28:35.240 know what do I do? So I think the kind 0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:41.640 of whole the whole change philosophically, of of of the offense. 0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:46.520 UM kind of just changed little thing. So we're you're 0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:49.720 listening to Pats from the Past podcast. Matt Smith, along 0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:52.120 with Brian Morin, were joined by Patriots Hall of Fame 0:28:52.160 --> 0:28:55.320 linebacker Steve Nelson. This podcast is brought you by who 0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:58.680 but WB Mason, who delivers all of your business essentials 0:28:58.720 --> 0:29:02.959 for free with no of a mortar, break room, furniture, facilities, maintenance, 0:29:03.040 --> 0:29:06.080 office applies, and so much more for the fastest delivery 0:29:06.120 --> 0:29:09.080 of business products. Nobody does it better than who but 0:29:09.320 --> 0:29:13.600 WB Mason. Okay, Steve my fault, I apologize. I bring 0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:16.960 up Darryl Stingley, I bring up the loss in seventy six, 0:29:17.200 --> 0:29:20.040 I bring up the lost in seventy eight. So let's 0:29:20.040 --> 0:29:23.440 talk about what I gotta believe failed restaurant. Um I 0:29:23.560 --> 0:29:28.720 gotta believe is no, no, not yet, not yet your 0:29:28.760 --> 0:29:31.080 happiest moment. And I see the picture of you standing 0:29:31.120 --> 0:29:34.320 on the sidelines looking up UM and saying New England, 0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:39.440 we love you. Squish the fish. Yeah, which up until 0:29:39.480 --> 0:29:42.280 two thousand and one was the greatest moment of New 0:29:42.280 --> 0:29:46.920 England Patriot fan had ever experienced. At that time. I 0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:48.960 talked about these things. You said, I regret we didn't 0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:50.600 win in Oakland, and you know, too bad about in 0:29:50.640 --> 0:29:53.440 nineteen seventy eight. Can you describe how great it was 0:29:54.040 --> 0:29:58.360 squishing the fick, squishing the fish and breaking the Orange 0:29:58.400 --> 0:30:01.240 Bowl jinks that year in the act Piship game. Well, 0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:03.520 I think obviously it was. It was. It was the 0:30:03.600 --> 0:30:07.400 best team victory I've ever been associated with, and just 0:30:07.560 --> 0:30:09.520 from the history of it because we had never beat 0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:13.680 them down in in um Miami. Uh, you know how 0:30:13.720 --> 0:30:17.440 important the game was AFC Championship game And what was 0:30:17.520 --> 0:30:20.000 so cool about that it was a third game in 0:30:20.520 --> 0:30:22.680 the in the playoffs. We had beaten the Jets on 0:30:22.760 --> 0:30:25.320 the road. We then went out and played the Raiders 0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:27.480 out in Los Angeles and beat them, and then we 0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:32.160 came back and played them played the Dolphins. And I 0:30:32.240 --> 0:30:34.280 think because we were familiar with the Dolphins, and we're 0:30:34.320 --> 0:30:36.720 familiar with both really the Jets, you know, we played 0:30:36.760 --> 0:30:39.000 them twice year and the and the Raiders we played 0:30:39.040 --> 0:30:42.840 them also. Uh, you know, the familiarity really helped us. 0:30:43.000 --> 0:30:45.680 And uh, but the one thing I'll never forget was 0:30:46.120 --> 0:30:48.600 the crowd. Man. It was seemed like it was you know, 0:30:48.800 --> 0:30:50.920 fifty percent in New England was down there, and they 0:30:51.000 --> 0:30:54.080 were loud, and you know, they're going through the whole 0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:55.840 experience like we were. You know, the first time we 0:30:55.920 --> 0:30:58.480 were in an AFC championship game, you know, let's we win. 0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:01.000 This were in the Super Bowl and and uh so 0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:04.240 that was so kind of inspiring to me that so 0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:08.280 many people were down their cheerings on. And you know, 0:31:08.360 --> 0:31:11.680 again it was it was a game that we we 0:31:11.920 --> 0:31:14.560 just matched up well against that that team. You know, 0:31:15.880 --> 0:31:17.560 we didn't match up well against the Bears, but we 0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:19.680 matched up well against the Dolphins. Right. But you said, 0:31:19.880 --> 0:31:22.520 was a young kid when you're playing against so oh, 0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:24.520 you know this group, we'll get him again, right, We'll 0:31:24.560 --> 0:31:26.280 get him again. And on the flip side of that, 0:31:26.440 --> 0:31:28.600 you played against the guy who's a Hall of Fame 0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:31.640 quarterback named Dan Marino who had gone to the Super 0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:34.160 Bowl the year before in his rookie year or second 0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:37.560 year or something like that. And oh, Marino, he'll go back. 0:31:37.720 --> 0:31:39.600 It's gonna happen with him. We'll go back up you 0:31:39.640 --> 0:31:42.360 know a hundred times. And you guys stopped him in 0:31:42.360 --> 0:31:44.080 the ANC Championship game. The guy never goes back to 0:31:44.120 --> 0:31:47.360 the Super Bowls. I know, there's nothing guaranteed in this game. 0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:51.160 It's not and uh, you know that that's probably the 0:31:51.240 --> 0:31:53.560 greatest example of a guy who played early and then, 0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:55.880 like I said, he played another fifteen years with Duper 0:31:55.920 --> 0:31:58.400 and Clayton, you know, two great wide receivers and never 0:31:58.480 --> 0:32:00.720 had a chance to go back. And so it is 0:32:00.840 --> 0:32:05.080 very special. And that game was incredibly just incredibly cool 0:32:05.160 --> 0:32:09.880 because Raymond Claiborne played the best game I've ever seen 0:32:09.960 --> 0:32:12.440 in one player playing the game because he took Duper 0:32:12.880 --> 0:32:15.000 or Clayton, the guy who lined up on his side 0:32:15.520 --> 0:32:18.160 man for man all day long, and we just kind 0:32:18.200 --> 0:32:21.920 of pushed the defense towards the other receiver and kind 0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:24.680 of doubled everybody else. But but Raymond was on an 0:32:24.720 --> 0:32:28.680 island and just played incredibly well. And uh, you know, 0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:33.040 I I one really great debate, and I think if 0:32:33.080 --> 0:32:35.880 you talked to a bunch of teammates, they'd probably wouldn't 0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:37.840 know the answer to it. But you know was Mike 0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:40.280 Haine's a better corner than Raymond Claiborne. Wow, that's a 0:32:40.320 --> 0:32:42.920 big statement. Steve and I'd tell you I played, you know, 0:32:42.960 --> 0:32:44.560 I played again with him both, and they both were 0:32:45.000 --> 0:32:48.720 incredible athletes and everything else. Raymond Claiborne just didn't know 0:32:48.800 --> 0:32:50.800 how fast he was. I mean he was. He was 0:32:50.840 --> 0:32:52.560 as fast as he had to be. It's one of 0:32:52.640 --> 0:32:55.320 those guys that you know, his coverage, he would be 0:32:55.400 --> 0:32:57.400 like a rubber band. He'd you'd be five years off 0:32:57.440 --> 0:32:58.720 and when that ball was in the air, he would 0:32:58.720 --> 0:33:01.880 just that that you just collapsed on that wide receiver. 0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:06.040 And uh, you know, they both were long, they were 0:33:06.120 --> 0:33:08.600 they were they were great man and man guys. They 0:33:08.720 --> 0:33:12.840 they they tackle. You know, I think Raymond Claiborne has 0:33:12.880 --> 0:33:16.400 the record for returns as touchdown returns to kickoff returns 0:33:16.520 --> 0:33:19.600 tied for the franchise league with interceptions. Yes, with Hall 0:33:19.680 --> 0:33:22.680 of Fame cornerback Ty Law. So that's pretty good company. 0:33:22.880 --> 0:33:25.239 Yes right, yeah, And so, Brian, that gives you an 0:33:25.280 --> 0:33:29.760 opportunity to then, I mean, today's Patriot fans no disrespect. 0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:32.760 You know, they don't know who Raymond Claiborne is. Yet 0:33:33.440 --> 0:33:38.000 three years ago, you know, when Claiborne was on the ballot, 0:33:38.400 --> 0:33:41.360 and tough competition with some of the recent guys you 0:33:41.440 --> 0:33:45.000 know who've played and won Super Bowls. You it was heartening, 0:33:45.120 --> 0:33:47.040 I would think for guys like you to see, you 0:33:47.120 --> 0:33:49.640 know what, the fans actually gave Raymond his due and 0:33:49.840 --> 0:33:52.080 realized that kid belongs in the Patriots Hall of Fan 0:33:53.040 --> 0:33:55.840 It is it is And uh, you know, I think 0:33:55.920 --> 0:33:58.520 you said it very well, Matt, because you know he 0:33:58.680 --> 0:34:01.080 does deserve to be in it. And when you have 0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:03.520 the success you had obviously with the team in the 0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:06.400 last twenty years, and players are retiring and they've have 0:34:06.480 --> 0:34:08.600 won three or four Super Bowls, they've been on three 0:34:08.640 --> 0:34:12.279 or four Super Bowl teams. Uh, that's that's quite a 0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:15.040 bit for your resume. And uh, it was good to 0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:18.120 see Raymond get his due because he I say, he played, 0:34:18.239 --> 0:34:21.279 I think he played fifteen years and we went to 0:34:21.360 --> 0:34:24.319 Cleveland for his last year, which you know it all 0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:25.920 this kind of looks weird when a guy plays his 0:34:26.000 --> 0:34:27.840 whole career one button with some team and then he 0:34:28.320 --> 0:34:32.160 might see me leading right now, that's gonna happen. What 0:34:32.280 --> 0:34:35.880 could you be talking about? He was talking about Stanley 0:34:35.960 --> 0:34:39.640 He was talking about Stanley Morgan going to Indianapolis, Yeah, exactly, 0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:42.400 or Joe Namath going to Chargers or no, the Rams. 0:34:42.640 --> 0:34:45.080 Yeah that's right, Yeah, yeah, O J. Simpson going to 0:34:45.120 --> 0:34:47.759 San Francisco. Do you remember that? Yes? I do? All right, 0:34:47.800 --> 0:34:49.960 so we good buy the joy of Miami. Let's talk 0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:52.359 about Super Bowl twenty You had beat you had lost 0:34:52.400 --> 0:34:56.760 to Chicago twenty to seven early in the year, Miami 0:34:56.960 --> 0:35:00.040 had dealt them their only loss of the season. And 0:35:00.320 --> 0:35:02.839 I think on Monday Night football right late in the year, 0:35:04.360 --> 0:35:07.920 did you guys feel like you had a real chance 0:35:08.040 --> 0:35:11.680 going into that game or was it We're gonna have 0:35:11.800 --> 0:35:14.920 to do something special here to beat this team. You know, 0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:17.719 I thought we had a real chance. Again. You know, 0:35:17.760 --> 0:35:21.920 we played him in Chicago twenty seven, and you know, 0:35:22.000 --> 0:35:24.240 defensively we played pretty good against them, and our offense 0:35:24.239 --> 0:35:27.400 didn't have a lot of things going on. But I 0:35:27.520 --> 0:35:29.279 thought if we got a couple of breaks, we could 0:35:29.320 --> 0:35:35.280 beat him, absolutely absolutely, And you know it's it's we couldn't. 0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:37.640 We couldn't kick field goals, we had any touchdowns, you know, 0:35:37.680 --> 0:35:40.200 all these little things that you have to do to win. 0:35:40.400 --> 0:35:42.640 We just didn't do it. We weren't, you know, capable 0:35:42.640 --> 0:35:44.799 of doing it that day. So that's why that first drive, 0:35:44.840 --> 0:35:46.719 that's why that first drive killed Ji Ball goes off 0:35:46.800 --> 0:35:49.239 Morgan's hands on either, you know, so you get to 0:35:49.320 --> 0:35:52.239 turn over on the first series of downs and hey, bang, 0:35:52.280 --> 0:35:54.839 we're in good field position here, let's go. Ball goes 0:35:54.880 --> 0:35:57.440 off Morgan's hands. I think that was first down. Lynn 0:35:57.520 --> 0:36:01.080 Dawson breaks on second down, yeah, you know, and then 0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:03.759 you incomplete flashed on throws down. All right, well, you 0:36:03.880 --> 0:36:06.040 kick a field goal and you're saying you can't kick 0:36:06.080 --> 0:36:08.600 field goals against this team. In fact, my my, my 0:36:09.280 --> 0:36:13.480 memory of that game, more than anything else is I 0:36:13.560 --> 0:36:16.040 don't is when we line up to kick the field goal. 0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:18.640 Tony Franklin with the barefoot kicks the field goal and 0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:21.239 they put up a stat on the screen like the 0:36:21.400 --> 0:36:24.759 team that scores first has one out of nineteen Super 0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:27.600 Bowls whatever the number was, and I was like, yes, 0:36:28.800 --> 0:36:31.640 you know, And then they scored forty six unanswered. Oh man, 0:36:31.719 --> 0:36:34.160 that that was a long day. It was. But my 0:36:34.360 --> 0:36:37.480 dad and my dad went down from Minnesota. He and 0:36:37.560 --> 0:36:39.919 my mom went down to watch the AFC Championship game 0:36:39.960 --> 0:36:43.960 in in Miami, and uh, he likes to put a 0:36:44.000 --> 0:36:45.640 little money on the game. So he said, what do 0:36:45.640 --> 0:36:47.600 you think, I said, Dad, you match up with Miami, 0:36:47.719 --> 0:36:51.160 you know, I can guarantee obviously you win, but it's 0:36:51.200 --> 0:36:53.040 gonna be a great bet, you know. So he wins 0:36:53.080 --> 0:36:56.880 a couple bucks. Two weeks later, we're in New Orleans. 0:36:57.640 --> 0:36:59.279 He goes, what do you think? I said, geez, dad, 0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:01.319 I think we match up with these guys pretty good. 0:37:03.880 --> 0:37:08.160 What are you gonna say'll make the bed? So Steve 0:37:08.520 --> 0:37:12.040 Hindsight's twenty twenty. The NFL is celebrating this year. You know, 0:37:12.040 --> 0:37:14.120 it's one hundredth the anniversary, and it's the best this, 0:37:14.360 --> 0:37:16.400 it's the best that. And they talk about best teams. 0:37:16.760 --> 0:37:18.759 You've got a pretty good perspective on this. You you know, 0:37:18.800 --> 0:37:20.719 we're talking about jeez, you're gonna talkbout forty six to 0:37:20.880 --> 0:37:23.279 ten that was the Super Bowl score? Are they the 0:37:23.360 --> 0:37:25.960 best team that you can think of that you played 0:37:26.440 --> 0:37:32.120 that eighty five Bears team? Uh? Probably they had the 0:37:32.160 --> 0:37:34.359 best defense, you know, and it's remarkable that they never 0:37:34.400 --> 0:37:37.640 won another Super Bowls. Yeah, you know, it's just crazy 0:37:37.719 --> 0:37:39.600 because that year they played I think the Rams in 0:37:39.640 --> 0:37:43.040 the playoffs and they just destroyed They destroyed everybody. But 0:37:43.160 --> 0:37:45.719 then the next year they come back and I think 0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:48.239 thy quarterback to one of their playoff games. In the 0:37:48.280 --> 0:37:52.120 next couple of years because McMahon was hurt, right really, yeah, yeah, 0:37:52.160 --> 0:37:55.279 I you know, and um, it's a fragile it's the 0:37:55.320 --> 0:37:57.279 fragile nature of it, Steve. It's hard to keep it together. 0:37:57.280 --> 0:37:58.640 It's when you look at this team and see what 0:37:58.680 --> 0:38:00.719 they've been able to do for twenty years, it's just 0:38:00.800 --> 0:38:05.800 so remarkable because it's Richard Dent, it's um Otis Wilson, 0:38:05.960 --> 0:38:09.080 it's that defense, single Tarry. You know how many Hall 0:38:09.120 --> 0:38:12.080 of famers, NFL Hall of Famers, that defense? How do 0:38:12.200 --> 0:38:14.560 they not just come back and stifle everybody? You're right, 0:38:14.600 --> 0:38:17.520 I mean everybody wants to get paid. Everybody's the reason 0:38:17.600 --> 0:38:20.759 why we want it. You know, Buddy Ryan leaves, you know. 0:38:21.000 --> 0:38:23.480 And so it's just tough to keep it together for 0:38:23.600 --> 0:38:26.839 so long, right yeah. And you know Walter Payton, Yeah, 0:38:26.960 --> 0:38:31.640 you know who incredible player, and uh yeah, it's uh, 0:38:31.960 --> 0:38:33.960 it is tough to repeat. And I think once you 0:38:34.320 --> 0:38:37.760 smell and get that success, you know, it becomes more difficult. 0:38:37.960 --> 0:38:41.279 But even back then though, there was no free agency, right, 0:38:41.880 --> 0:38:44.920 so it was actually easier to keep it together. I 0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:49.279 just wonder about does the attitude change. Is there some 0:38:49.480 --> 0:38:54.400 sort of do you lose a little bit of that, yeah, 0:38:54.560 --> 0:38:56.200 because you've won it and you and you get a 0:38:56.239 --> 0:38:59.200 little arrogant and cocky and maybe don't maybe you used 0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:00.960 to commit at six am and now you command at 0:39:00.960 --> 0:39:03.320 six thirty, right, that kind of thing, you know. So 0:39:03.560 --> 0:39:05.200 I don't want to leave the witness here, Steve. But 0:39:05.320 --> 0:39:10.480 you mentioned Walter Payton, who was the best player that 0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:17.160 you ever played against, the best runner I I played 0:39:17.200 --> 0:39:20.000 against with Earl Campbell, and you know, I I was 0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:23.120 you know, you know, we talked about our just our division. 0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:25.520 You had Old J. Simpson, you had John Riggins, you know, 0:39:25.600 --> 0:39:28.279 you had some really outstanding backs. But I think Earl 0:39:28.400 --> 0:39:32.200 Campbell for that three or four year window, you know, 0:39:32.840 --> 0:39:35.600 he was just something else. He was just he was. 0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:38.839 He took that team on his back literally and ran, 0:39:39.120 --> 0:39:42.440 you know, and and uh, you know, bum Phillips just 0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:44.520 give the ball to the Earl. And they had you know, 0:39:44.640 --> 0:39:47.080 Tim Wilson, Ice Wagon. Wilson was his lead back, and 0:39:47.800 --> 0:39:49.759 you know, you knew where they're going to go, you know, 0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:53.319 but it was just uh and we played him one 0:39:53.400 --> 0:39:55.400 time out here. I think it was it might have 0:39:55.400 --> 0:39:57.040 been the playoff game, might have been just a regular 0:39:57.040 --> 0:39:59.560 season game, but it was fourth and short, and you 0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:01.440 know they're you know, we're going to run, you know, 0:40:01.719 --> 0:40:03.680 Wilson's you know, they're in a kind of an eye 0:40:03.760 --> 0:40:06.360 offset eye, and Wilson's going they're going to run right 0:40:06.440 --> 0:40:09.800 behind Wilson and giving the ball to Campbell. And so 0:40:09.960 --> 0:40:12.040 I back up about four or f our yards. We're 0:40:12.040 --> 0:40:13.680 in short yards, and I said, I'm going to hit 0:40:14.040 --> 0:40:16.960 hit him right in the face this time, Campbell. And 0:40:18.320 --> 0:40:20.000 they had a wing on my side, and the wing 0:40:20.080 --> 0:40:22.800 went in motion and the safety went with him, and 0:40:22.920 --> 0:40:25.320 instead of going around that second layer of defense like 0:40:25.360 --> 0:40:26.840 you're supposed to do, he went in front of me 0:40:27.200 --> 0:40:29.239 and kind of hit my face mask and the ball 0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:31.600 was snapped kind of the same time, and I kind 0:40:31.640 --> 0:40:36.399 of readjusted, and here comes Campbell running at me full speed, 0:40:36.400 --> 0:40:39.359 and I go, oh god, And it's amazing how fast 0:40:39.400 --> 0:40:42.480 your mind can can think, because I said, this is 0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:45.239 going to beyond every highlight show ever. He's going to 0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:48.520 run right over me, you know. And luckily Tim Fox 0:40:48.760 --> 0:40:50.600 kind of came and hit both of us and we 0:40:50.800 --> 0:40:53.560 kind of kind of fell to the side because it 0:40:53.640 --> 0:40:56.719 would have been really ugly and embarrassing because he would 0:40:56.719 --> 0:40:59.799 have literally ran right over me. That I mean that's 0:41:00.000 --> 0:41:03.080 pretty high praise. Who's the best runner. And he's sitting 0:41:03.120 --> 0:41:06.600 here and he's talking about, you know, mentions Simpson. I 0:41:06.719 --> 0:41:11.400 mean O J. Simpson was a great, great NFL player. 0:41:11.800 --> 0:41:14.200 Yet he's talking Earl Campbell over O J. Simpson. That's 0:41:14.560 --> 0:41:17.880 that's pretty interesting insight there, Steve. Yeah, well, and you 0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:21.040 mentioned you know, so if he gets run over though, 0:41:21.640 --> 0:41:24.960 you become Brian Bosworth, right, exactly right, you know? And 0:41:25.080 --> 0:41:30.520 that was right? So was was Earl the best player 0:41:30.560 --> 0:41:32.680 you ever played against? Steve? Or as you're thinking about it, 0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:36.520 is there an offensive lineman that you think was a 0:41:36.800 --> 0:41:39.560 was a tougher matchup for you, or a better player 0:41:39.760 --> 0:41:42.160 or somebody like that that you can think of, you know, 0:41:42.239 --> 0:41:44.640 as far as best players that you ever played against, Uh, 0:41:46.600 --> 0:41:48.160 you know, I would I would think in that short 0:41:48.160 --> 0:41:51.560 period of time, Campbell was the most most dominant player. 0:41:51.960 --> 0:41:56.160 You know, he was just and Pittsburgh had some players. 0:41:56.200 --> 0:41:57.640 I mean they had like seven or eight Hall of 0:41:57.680 --> 0:41:59.600 Famers on that team in the seventies. You know, they 0:41:59.680 --> 0:42:02.560 had he had three linebackers that all went in Hall, 0:42:02.719 --> 0:42:06.040 Andy Russell, Lambert and Ham. You know, he had Mel Blunt, 0:42:06.120 --> 0:42:10.879 did Frankel, Lynn Swan, John Stalwarth, Terry Bradshaw. You saw 0:42:10.960 --> 0:42:13.160 Mike Webster. You might have got Webster. How about that 0:42:13.280 --> 0:42:15.640 for draft class? That was my year that the Pittsburgh 0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:19.560 had Mike Webster. He was like a ninth rounder. Swan 0:42:19.719 --> 0:42:23.360 was the number one, Lambert was number two, Stalworth was 0:42:23.440 --> 0:42:27.000 number three. They had Donnie Shell just got into the 0:42:27.080 --> 0:42:28.719 Hall of Fame? Did Donnie Shell get in the Hall 0:42:28.719 --> 0:42:31.359 of Fame? And then I can't remember. I think who 0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:33.839 was in the centennial class. I think Donnie Shall might 0:42:33.880 --> 0:42:37.120 have just gotten in and that expanded Hall of Fame class. 0:42:37.560 --> 0:42:40.560 I'll let you look that up. Okay, So best player 0:42:40.600 --> 0:42:45.520 you played against, best player I'm not saying necessarily teammate, 0:42:46.120 --> 0:42:51.839 best player that you played with. John Hannah wasn't even hesitated. Nah, 0:42:52.400 --> 0:42:55.320 he just he was a special, special player and he 0:42:55.640 --> 0:42:58.319 Uh do you think today's Patriots fans have any appreciation 0:42:59.000 --> 0:43:02.160 Tom Brady is might be the greatest player, might be 0:43:02.239 --> 0:43:04.320 the greatest player that's ever played the game, and deservely 0:43:04.360 --> 0:43:08.040 gets all the accolades. But when you say John Hanna 0:43:08.080 --> 0:43:11.000 is the best player not named Tom Brady and Patriot's history, Yeah, 0:43:11.400 --> 0:43:14.160 that's a fair statement, isn't it. I think so, I think, 0:43:14.239 --> 0:43:16.759 you know, you can argue Gronkowski maybe at his position too, 0:43:16.840 --> 0:43:22.440 but but John was just such a you know, he 0:43:22.520 --> 0:43:25.680 had such an individual ability and then he was such 0:43:25.719 --> 0:43:30.480 a team player. And he, uh, he was. He was 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:31.839 one of those guys that, you know, if he didn't 0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:34.200 play perfect, he thought he played bad, badly. He wanted 0:43:34.200 --> 0:43:38.040 to play the perfect game. His his goals were so 0:43:38.239 --> 0:43:40.800 much different than most of us, you know, he was 0:43:40.840 --> 0:43:42.759 and that's that's why he was such a different player 0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:47.320 than we were. But John was man. He was what 0:43:47.440 --> 0:43:50.480 was practiced like Steve against full speed, you know. Back 0:43:50.520 --> 0:43:52.640 then again when when when you running the ball again, 0:43:52.680 --> 0:43:54.560 you play a lot of nine on seven and you 0:43:54.600 --> 0:43:56.400 don't have a lot of guys on your roster, you know, 0:43:56.480 --> 0:43:58.400 you don't have any type of pup team or whatever. 0:43:58.520 --> 0:44:00.879 So you you're going against her once you know quite 0:44:00.920 --> 0:44:03.360 a bit, and it's all about timing, and so you 0:44:03.440 --> 0:44:05.360 gotta go full speed to get your timing down. And 0:44:05.920 --> 0:44:08.000 you know, when you got your taking on Cunningham and 0:44:08.080 --> 0:44:10.279 you're taking up John and you know, and Leon and 0:44:10.320 --> 0:44:14.040 all those guys this all day. And but John was special. 0:44:14.200 --> 0:44:20.040 John was just uh, he's just just the best the 0:44:20.080 --> 0:44:22.640 best player. I mean I've ever been around, having a 0:44:22.680 --> 0:44:24.719 goal against him in practice every single day. Did he 0:44:24.840 --> 0:44:26.839 make you a much better player because of that? Steve? 0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:28.520 Oh yeah, I used to get him mad too, Matt. 0:44:28.640 --> 0:44:30.799 I used to you know, old lay him. He'd come 0:44:30.880 --> 0:44:32.839 firing out, you know, I'd give him the old old 0:44:32.920 --> 0:44:35.360 lay and have him fall down. He'd yelled at me, 0:44:35.440 --> 0:44:38.000 and then I'd then I'd signal from some rookie to 0:44:38.040 --> 0:44:39.560 come in, you know, take my place, and he'd go 0:44:39.680 --> 0:44:41.640 in here and not knowing what was happening, and John 0:44:41.680 --> 0:44:43.840 would come off and just you know, nail him. And 0:44:44.520 --> 0:44:47.719 but yeah, it was he made that playing against that 0:44:47.760 --> 0:44:50.160 whole offensive line, that whole offensive line was was great. 0:44:50.200 --> 0:44:51.800 And you know they set a record obviously with the 0:44:51.920 --> 0:44:55.000 rushing yards. But yeah, it was good. So okay, so 0:44:55.160 --> 0:44:58.120 I think one guy who can block was Russ Francis. Yeah, Russ. 0:44:58.320 --> 0:45:00.960 We played We played the Cowboys one time and Henderson 0:45:01.040 --> 0:45:04.040 was there outside linebacker, was given Russ crap before the 0:45:04.120 --> 0:45:07.480 game and he's just, you know, I'm gonna chew you up, Francis, 0:45:07.520 --> 0:45:09.840 you pretty boy or whatever. Well, Russ went into the 0:45:09.840 --> 0:45:12.439 locker room and he got the tape with the rolls 0:45:12.440 --> 0:45:17.000 of tape him on and putting him foil. He wasn't 0:45:17.000 --> 0:45:22.360 a goon, but he put him on his fingers and 0:45:22.400 --> 0:45:25.239 take them all up and went out and just just chase. 0:45:25.600 --> 0:45:28.160 I'll tell you Henderson, you know, I wish he had 0:45:28.200 --> 0:45:30.600 never said a word, just been invisible because Russ is 0:45:31.239 --> 0:45:34.279 absolutely you know, played not like he usually played. You know, 0:45:34.360 --> 0:45:36.560 when the balls away from him, you'd give you wouldn't 0:45:36.800 --> 0:45:40.640 take the down, but Russ was. Russ filled his potential 0:45:40.760 --> 0:45:43.160 up that game and he was just incredible. Okay, So 0:45:43.840 --> 0:45:47.240 on that note, cold weather games up here in New England, 0:45:49.360 --> 0:45:52.480 do you play better if you don't wear sleeves? Like, 0:45:52.680 --> 0:45:57.759 what's why is it so tough to just not wear sleeves? Well, 0:45:57.920 --> 0:46:00.479 you know, I again where he came from, you know, Brian, 0:46:00.560 --> 0:46:03.280 it was it was that weather and you know around 0:46:03.320 --> 0:46:05.840 Halloween was we get snow. So it was uh. I 0:46:06.000 --> 0:46:08.719 was used to that and I didn't want to sew 0:46:08.800 --> 0:46:11.279 myself down either. This added stuff on me. But you 0:46:11.400 --> 0:46:14.600 told me a story once about a guard from Miami 0:46:14.800 --> 0:46:18.480 late in the season. Yes, share that with us, Ed Newman. 0:46:19.080 --> 0:46:20.960 He came out acting like he was. It was a 0:46:21.160 --> 0:46:23.400 tough it was a tough day. I don't know what 0:46:23.480 --> 0:46:27.440 the wind show was. But he came out. Uh no, 0:46:27.680 --> 0:46:30.440 it wasn't a John Smith game. Uh, but ed and 0:46:30.560 --> 0:46:32.160 he was as a good player and he came out 0:46:32.239 --> 0:46:34.600 and he didn't have any uh any you know this 0:46:35.120 --> 0:46:38.040 bare arms and he was big, and you know he 0:46:38.800 --> 0:46:41.640 he warms up and uh he goes into you know, 0:46:41.800 --> 0:46:45.440 before the game, comes out with sleeves on stuff because 0:46:45.760 --> 0:46:47.200 you know it was it was colder than he thought 0:46:47.200 --> 0:46:48.520 he wasn't he you know, he wasn't going to be 0:46:48.920 --> 0:46:51.839 make the statement that he thought he was gonna do. Yeah. 0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:54.600 That was. That was and that and that John Smith kickoff. 0:46:54.640 --> 0:46:57.000 That was a great game. Yeah, three points in a 0:46:57.040 --> 0:46:59.879 professional football game. I think it's the lowest total ever. Right. 0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:03.480 And another great memory is Steve Nelson as the as 0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:06.800 Mark Henderson is driving the little John deer out to 0:47:06.880 --> 0:47:10.440 clear the spot on the video, Nelson looks over and 0:47:11.400 --> 0:47:15.840 times fist like yes we got this. Yeah. Coach their 0:47:15.880 --> 0:47:20.719 home fuel advantage, right. So Nelly, you've decided, Um, you 0:47:20.840 --> 0:47:23.440 played your entire career here for the Patriots. You've decided 0:47:23.480 --> 0:47:26.360 to make your home and your families here in New England. 0:47:26.360 --> 0:47:27.840 You stayed in New England the whole time. I'm not 0:47:27.960 --> 0:47:29.960 here to bash the this, this group of people, but 0:47:30.040 --> 0:47:33.160 you mentioned briefly, you know, the Sullivan's. You look at 0:47:33.200 --> 0:47:36.440 what this franchise has become as you've lived your post 0:47:36.520 --> 0:47:39.680 football life right here in New England, do you get 0:47:39.680 --> 0:47:42.279 a little jealous? Maybe? Do you wish that the stability 0:47:42.560 --> 0:47:47.239 that exists with the franchise today had existed when you 0:47:47.320 --> 0:47:49.239 were playing for the Patriots back then? I wish we 0:47:49.320 --> 0:47:53.560 were getting the cash they're getting, right, you say again, 0:47:53.640 --> 0:47:55.640 I think I think for me it was it was 0:47:55.680 --> 0:47:59.239 a perfect perfect spot to land out of college. You know. 0:47:59.360 --> 0:48:03.600 It was, uh, the stadiums in Foxboro, which is you know, 0:48:03.640 --> 0:48:07.480 a suburban h For me, I felt more comfortable. And no, 0:48:07.640 --> 0:48:10.000 I the Sulivans were you know, they did the best 0:48:10.040 --> 0:48:12.680 they could and uh, you know, I gotta have the 0:48:12.840 --> 0:48:16.080 utmost respect for the family. Um, and it was good 0:48:16.080 --> 0:48:19.320 to see when when you know, the Craft bought the 0:48:19.760 --> 0:48:24.480 the the franchise that they had been fans at one 0:48:24.560 --> 0:48:27.040 time and so they had something invested, you know, just 0:48:27.239 --> 0:48:32.319 not capital, but they had kind of feelings invested. So UM, yeah, 0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:35.680 I don't get jealous. Yeah, good good? Can you are 0:48:35.719 --> 0:48:39.440 you are you amazed at this franchise. Amazed, amazed at 0:48:39.480 --> 0:48:42.080 this franchise that you played with, and you talk about 0:48:42.120 --> 0:48:43.600 me and we went to the super Bowl, and you 0:48:43.640 --> 0:48:46.160 know how great the AC Championship Game is Miami, Like 0:48:46.440 --> 0:48:48.839 they went to the AC Championship Game, Steve, until this year, 0:48:48.920 --> 0:48:52.600 eight straight years. It doesn't happen in this does it. 0:48:53.239 --> 0:48:55.680 So are you amazed at the success that the that 0:48:55.800 --> 0:48:58.359 this organization that you laid the groundwork for. By the way, 0:48:58.400 --> 0:49:01.160 you're part of the foundation. You're why the Crafts bought 0:49:01.239 --> 0:49:03.680 the team, because you know, if it wasn't for guys 0:49:03.719 --> 0:49:06.840 like Steve Nelson and Steve Grogan and see him Cunningham, 0:49:07.239 --> 0:49:09.920 there's no Patriot's asset that Bob Kraft wants to buy. 0:49:10.600 --> 0:49:13.520 You're you're the reality of why he wanted to buy that. 0:49:14.080 --> 0:49:16.680 And now look at what they've done, taken that foundation 0:49:17.000 --> 0:49:20.200 and built it what it is into today. Well yeah, 0:49:20.440 --> 0:49:27.000 and I appreciate that. I think, Um, you know this, Frank, No, 0:49:27.280 --> 0:49:30.680 no team's going to see that. That's you know, score 0:49:30.719 --> 0:49:35.200 of years, twenty years that the Patriots have enjoyed and um, 0:49:36.200 --> 0:49:39.439 you know it's it comes when the coach was there, Kim. 0:49:39.560 --> 0:49:42.520 You know coming in in a player and the you know, 0:49:42.680 --> 0:49:45.960 the debate which which guy is more important? And I 0:49:46.320 --> 0:49:49.800 personally think they compliment each other, you know, that's I 0:49:49.840 --> 0:49:52.960 don't think there's one guy more important. But yeah, this 0:49:53.880 --> 0:49:57.040 our area is so spoiled with all the sports teams. 0:49:57.080 --> 0:49:59.080 And again it was you know, I got some buddies 0:49:59.120 --> 0:50:02.080 back in Minnesota and I call him Loserville because they're 0:50:02.120 --> 0:50:05.120 the last major franchise, major city that has four franchises 0:50:05.160 --> 0:50:07.920 to win a championship, you know. And I'm talking about 0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:09.960 the you know, the six times, the last twenty years 0:50:10.000 --> 0:50:11.720 of Patriots and one the you know, the Red Sox 0:50:11.840 --> 0:50:14.759 their success, the Celtics and Bruins, you know back there, 0:50:14.840 --> 0:50:17.800 the Twins and Vikings and that's not the North Stars, 0:50:17.800 --> 0:50:20.680 a wild now and Wolves. They haven't won it since 0:50:20.800 --> 0:50:23.320 the eighties. So maybe I asked a question wrong. I 0:50:23.360 --> 0:50:25.600 asked you, if you're jealous that you didn't have the 0:50:25.600 --> 0:50:30.600 stability when you played, um, are you prideful, Steve that 0:50:30.760 --> 0:50:33.160 this team that you put so much sweat equity into 0:50:34.040 --> 0:50:35.840 has now turned itself into And you could say, you 0:50:35.880 --> 0:50:38.760 know what, I played for that franchise and I'm proud 0:50:39.080 --> 0:50:41.279 to have played for it. Then and I'm proud to 0:50:41.320 --> 0:50:44.719 see what they've developed into today. Oh absolutely, yeah, I was. 0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:47.400 I was always proud to be part of, you know, 0:50:47.480 --> 0:50:52.920 the Patriot family. And uh I I've just amazed at 0:50:52.960 --> 0:50:56.200 these players and you know, their ability to come up 0:50:56.280 --> 0:50:58.440 weekend and week out, and when you're in a you know, 0:50:58.600 --> 0:51:01.840 a single elimination tournament which the playoffs are, you know, 0:51:01.920 --> 0:51:04.160 the success they've had and you know, not having a 0:51:04.239 --> 0:51:06.759 bad day and you know, like like the Ravens had 0:51:06.840 --> 0:51:10.840 this year, you know, just shows you how just zeroed 0:51:10.880 --> 0:51:13.120 in they are and how well they're coached, and the 0:51:13.160 --> 0:51:16.200 commitment on the players. But yeah, it's it's it's been great. 0:51:16.480 --> 0:51:19.400 And Steve, you know, we we love still having you around. 0:51:19.480 --> 0:51:21.120 You come over to the Hall of Fame quite a bit. 0:51:21.960 --> 0:51:25.160 How does it make you feel that the fans still 0:51:25.280 --> 0:51:29.080 come out and really appreciate what you did as a player, 0:51:29.640 --> 0:51:32.920 even though today's team has all the success as a 0:51:33.040 --> 0:51:36.920 team that had had. Well, I think that it tells 0:51:37.000 --> 0:51:40.160 me how how educated the fans are. I mean they 0:51:41.400 --> 0:51:44.720 you know, they know what happened in the seventies and eighties. 0:51:44.760 --> 0:51:47.120 You know about Parcels coming in the nineties, they know 0:51:47.360 --> 0:51:52.320 Pete Carroll they know everything had happened, and you know, 0:51:52.360 --> 0:51:55.440 I think they're really educated fans. And I think for 0:51:55.480 --> 0:51:57.160 a while he kind of got a bad rap about 0:51:57.200 --> 0:51:59.640 but being football fans being new in New England because 0:51:59.680 --> 0:52:01.520 I and I think because the success of the Red 0:52:01.560 --> 0:52:05.960 Sox and you know, they had right right and uh, 0:52:06.320 --> 0:52:09.359 but they got really good football fans out here, and uh, 0:52:10.320 --> 0:52:12.359 you know, it was a great place for me to land. 0:52:12.480 --> 0:52:15.799 And uh, I'm just so grateful as I was able 0:52:15.840 --> 0:52:17.279 to go in, come in as a patriot, and go 0:52:17.360 --> 0:52:19.960 out as a patriot, and uh that worked out for me. 0:52:20.200 --> 0:52:21.800 Do you get it? Do you get it daily? Do 0:52:21.840 --> 0:52:24.239 you get it weekly? Where you're running into whatever you're 0:52:24.320 --> 0:52:26.279 doing as far as business concern if you're going to 0:52:26.320 --> 0:52:28.759 the store, you're going out to eat, Hey that's Steve 0:52:28.880 --> 0:52:31.160 Nelson once in a while, Yeah it's number fifty seven. Yeah. 0:52:31.239 --> 0:52:33.520 Do you like it? I do? I do? I do? 0:52:33.719 --> 0:52:36.399 And uh, yeah, it's you know, it's kind of fun 0:52:36.440 --> 0:52:37.920 to be recognized once in a while. And when the 0:52:38.040 --> 0:52:40.399 NFL networked did the top ten Patriots of all time 0:52:40.480 --> 0:52:42.400 a couple of years back, you were number eight, I 0:52:42.480 --> 0:52:45.120 had to feel good. Yeah I did, you know, And 0:52:45.280 --> 0:52:48.760 again I don't. I don't really care you know about 0:52:49.280 --> 0:52:51.640 you know, because it's all personal opinions and stuff like that, 0:52:51.920 --> 0:52:55.560 you know, so it's you know, I no control over 0:52:55.719 --> 0:52:58.680 you know, but uh and and it's it's it's yeah, 0:52:59.000 --> 0:53:01.960 just to be included in that group is I'm very 0:53:02.320 --> 0:53:07.560 proud of that. But again it was you know, people's opinions. 0:53:07.600 --> 0:53:11.240 So patriot fans go to YouTube look for number fifty 0:53:11.280 --> 0:53:13.920 seven right in the middle of the field. Not only 0:53:14.040 --> 0:53:16.560 is in the Patriot's Hall of Fame, but he's probably 0:53:16.760 --> 0:53:19.720 one of the classiest players to ever wear a Patriot's uniform, 0:53:19.840 --> 0:53:22.439 one of the best guys to ever run through this franchise. Steve, 0:53:22.520 --> 0:53:24.439 it was a pleasure talking football with you today. Thanks. 0:53:25.400 --> 0:53:28.239 And you know, when I was transitioning out of this 0:53:28.360 --> 0:53:31.080 game and doing some stuff for Channel five with you 0:53:31.480 --> 0:53:36.600 and Lynchy, that was really special for me. You know, 0:53:37.160 --> 0:53:40.640 you really not only professional, but you're just a good 0:53:40.760 --> 0:53:44.120 classy guy. And Brian YouTube you just the way. You know, 0:53:44.200 --> 0:53:45.719 you've taken the hall and made it what it is. 0:53:45.800 --> 0:53:48.160 It's you should be very proud of yourselves and and 0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:51.960 thanks for having me. You're kind. But how great is 0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:54.080 it that we can sit here and just talk football 0:53:54.560 --> 0:53:56.160 with one of the greatest players to ever be in 0:53:56.200 --> 0:54:00.080 this franchise. Nobody's luckier than us, right, nobody's luckier the 0:54:00.160 --> 0:54:03.000 next Steve Best. De Wish is going forward. Thanks to you, 0:54:03.160 --> 0:54:07.640 all right, Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe on Apple, 0:54:07.760 --> 0:54:10.719 Google Play, and everywhere else you listen. Like the show, 0:54:10.920 --> 0:54:14.279 please rate and review us. Listener comments and ratings help 0:54:14.400 --> 0:54:17.120 keep us high in the podcast rankings so new listeners 0:54:17.160 --> 0:54:20.200 can find us. Be sure to Checkpatriots dot com for 0:54:20.400 --> 0:54:22.400 more news and more podcasts.