WEBVTT - Part Two: The RFK Episodes

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<v Speaker 1>Also media.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh god, yeah, it's Behind the Bastards, the only podcast

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<v Speaker 2>that just made you reconsider listening to this podcast, because

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<v Speaker 2>that's not an appropriate sound to make for a bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of people driving to work gardening with their kids in

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<v Speaker 2>the yard. You know, I apologize for that. We're not

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<v Speaker 2>going to go back. You can't edit audio, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's impossible. You know, if if that dream were real,

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<v Speaker 2>if you could, by god, we would change this podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, if only there's there's so many things

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<v Speaker 3>would be different if we could edit audio and video.

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<v Speaker 1>What's exciting, Robert is that we may or may not

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<v Speaker 1>release video at some point at an undisclosed time, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>maybe not allegedly, who knows.

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<v Speaker 2>So we can edit that.

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<v Speaker 1>Finally, the listeners will get to see Cody and I

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<v Speaker 1>make faces. Maybe that were.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe maybe include those were really just just some honest reactions.

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<v Speaker 2>I really enjoyed Cody's Sayce, that's what I was saying, Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>or maybe we'll all get to hm. I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to make any of those jokes. Let's move on, Cody,

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<v Speaker 2>how are we feeling about Bobby Kennedy? You know, as

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<v Speaker 2>we as we roll in depart two right now, he's

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<v Speaker 2>not a bad guy, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>My feeling is that he never had a chance.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah right, that is the Bastardrey here is primarily not

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<v Speaker 2>because again he is admitted to sexually basically admitted to

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<v Speaker 2>sexually assaulting people. So I'm not trying to whitewash rfkguni'or either,

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<v Speaker 2>but like, the primary bastard of the story is the

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<v Speaker 2>concept of the Kennesty dynasty and what it does.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, not good, no good, never had a chance, really bad.

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<v Speaker 2>Really bad. Just the it's like if you if it's

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<v Speaker 2>like scientists in the lab, we're trying to cook up

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<v Speaker 2>the worst way to raise people. I just watched the

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<v Speaker 2>movie They Cloned Tyrone, which is I don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>like spoil it for you, but excellent excellent, really really

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<v Speaker 2>really really good movie, and the Kennedys kind of feel

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<v Speaker 2>like the reverse of that premise. If instead of, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know how to say, this is going to bed,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's like somebody, it's like a bunch of creepy

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<v Speaker 2>scientists we're trying to like design a ruling dynasty in

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<v Speaker 2>a lab and just completely fucked up at it, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like the experiment did not work.

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<v Speaker 3>Or like a more ambitious like dog tooth.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's just like raise our kids in the most like

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<v Speaker 3>fucked up way possible.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I think about like those those like those

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<v Speaker 2>fucking nerds who keep winding up in the media. Every

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<v Speaker 2>like three months, the news will decide, let's have a

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<v Speaker 2>little circus around these, like we have to have as

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<v Speaker 2>many kids as possible because we're exceptionally smart people, and yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we've got to. We have a responsibility. And I hit

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<v Speaker 2>my kids, but for science reasons, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>And then you ask them for the science reasons and

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<v Speaker 3>they're like, I saw a tiger do it once.

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<v Speaker 2>There kids, Man, what else do you when they get sick?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you eat your young because I have seen a

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<v Speaker 2>cat do that. I have seen it eat its own

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<v Speaker 2>kittens because the kitten was ill. Are you doing that?

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<v Speaker 2>Are you going to eat your sick kids so that

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<v Speaker 2>predators don't smell them? You know, No, you're not doing

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<v Speaker 2>that because we don't take parenting advice from tigers.

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<v Speaker 3>Data points from tigers. H We're never gonna this is

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I last episode, I kept wanting to like

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<v Speaker 3>bring them up because this is just that, or we

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<v Speaker 3>got to as many as possible. Our army is being

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<v Speaker 3>created by us, and there our children.

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<v Speaker 2>All I hope, and I again, this is the not

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<v Speaker 2>to whitewash RFK Junior. But I actually walked away, very

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<v Speaker 2>rare for me. But I walked away more sympathetic towards

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<v Speaker 2>him than I was, because it's just not again not

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<v Speaker 2>that he he doesn't have agency and the bad things

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<v Speaker 2>he's done. But my god, how could this story have ended?

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<v Speaker 3>Well? Well, yeah, I mean it's the you know, it's

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<v Speaker 3>how you create empathy for like villains in stories like well,

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<v Speaker 3>if you know their backstory, then you stand how they

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<v Speaker 3>got that way. It doesn't excuse their actions at that point,

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<v Speaker 3>but yeah, you're like, oh man.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it honestly makes them scarier. And you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>talk about like the sympathetic young Hitler a lot, but

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<v Speaker 2>like another young Hitler story is when he was a

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<v Speaker 2>young man living independently as like a poor artist in Vienna.

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<v Speaker 2>He was kept afloat by his dad's old government pension,

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<v Speaker 2>which he gave up which rendered him completely destinut because

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<v Speaker 2>his sister had a kid and she needed the money.

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<v Speaker 2>More you can you can find in the Hitler story

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<v Speaker 2>a truly selfless act because he wasn't always destined to

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<v Speaker 2>be fucking Hitler, and you kind of have to accept

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<v Speaker 2>that with most of them.

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<v Speaker 3>No one's destined to be.

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<v Speaker 2>There's some five year olds out there torturing cats and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe those people, right, Maybe, maybe it happens occasionally, but

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<v Speaker 2>that's not the story we're talking about today for sure. No,

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<v Speaker 2>he loves animals, Yeah, he loves them. He did maybe

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<v Speaker 2>kill that endangered turtle, but you know, someone just stopped him.

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<v Speaker 2>That was the adults. And at this point Sergeant Schreiver

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't have let him steal it. Endangered turtle.

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<v Speaker 3>Probably shouldn't let him do that. Maybe that was maybe

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<v Speaker 3>that was the start, maybe the start of it all.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just like, well, you know, your uncle Jess died.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure abduct come.

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<v Speaker 3>On, here you go.

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<v Speaker 2>He's got plenty of them. Yeah, speaking of things Africa,

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<v Speaker 2>it's got a lot of probably podcasts cold opens, and

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<v Speaker 2>this podcast cold Open is done.

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<v Speaker 1>It's time to warm it up.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>Wasn't a great cody.

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<v Speaker 3>Band. If you send me that audio file, I will

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<v Speaker 3>turn that into a hit. Yeah, he's already a hit.

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<v Speaker 2>You can turn that into a hit. Along with that

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<v Speaker 2>clip we found of Rush Limbaugh saying, bust female vaginal walls. Cody,

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<v Speaker 2>that's a great one. It's in the Doctor Laura episodes.

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<v Speaker 2>You gonna love it, really good stuff, really good.

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<v Speaker 3>Actually you love it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really horrible thing to hear.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>On the day his dad died, Bobby Junior was at

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<v Speaker 2>his boarding school, Georgetown Prep, which was run by Jesuits

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<v Speaker 2>and had a reputation for being one of those places

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<v Speaker 2>you sent rich boys to turn them into responsible members

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<v Speaker 2>of the power elite. Bobby was sleeping in his dorm

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<v Speaker 2>room when his dad was assassinated and was woken by

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<v Speaker 2>one of the one of the fathers or whatever. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know if it's a father, if it's like more

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<v Speaker 2>of a monk type deal. But one of the Jesuits

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<v Speaker 2>guys comes down and is like, hey, a chartered car

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<v Speaker 2>has come for you in the night. I'm not gonna

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<v Speaker 2>explain why, but you probably you're a Kennedy at this

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<v Speaker 2>point you probably can have say a bad thing happened.

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<v Speaker 3>The pattern is establishing itself.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So he is taken to the Kennedy compound at

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<v Speaker 2>Hickory Hill. The whole experience is obviously his dad got

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<v Speaker 2>shot to death. Right, that's traumatic. You know, there's no

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<v Speaker 2>way for that not to be traumatic. Bobby and his

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<v Speaker 2>siblings are ushered in to see their father before, like

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<v Speaker 2>while he's still technically alive. But like, and that's like

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<v Speaker 2>a hitty. I don't know, I don't know. I can't

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<v Speaker 2>say that's the wrong thing to do, yeah, or a right.

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<v Speaker 3>Thing, but like what condition, Like how how responsive is he?

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<v Speaker 3>Is That going to be more traumatic?

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<v Speaker 2>But still seeing him at some point where he's technically

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<v Speaker 2>alived is that, I don't know, everyone's different. What definitely

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<v Speaker 2>does not help is that this whole period, every moment

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<v Speaker 2>of this where they're outside the compound and outside of

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<v Speaker 2>that hospital room, they're surrounded by press right to an

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<v Speaker 2>extent that like even today is probably pretty rare, right, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>the sheer degree of attention on them is has to

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<v Speaker 2>make this even harder to handle, right than just having

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<v Speaker 2>your dad shot to death in public? They are subjected

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<v Speaker 2>to a massive public show of mourning at the funeral

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<v Speaker 2>of their dad. There's like a hobo march for RFK

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<v Speaker 2>because he was such like a so beloved by so

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<v Speaker 2>many like poor and struggling people, right like he really is.

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<v Speaker 2>And again you can. We can argue, like how fair

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<v Speaker 2>is it? There's some bad stuff he did, but like

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<v Speaker 2>that that love is real, you know, and that contributes

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<v Speaker 2>to how RFK Junior and his siblings are processing all

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<v Speaker 2>of this. Ethel Kennedy, Bobby's moms kind of collapses after

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<v Speaker 2>her husband gets murdered. And I have a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>criticisms of Ethyl, but like, again, you got eleven kids

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<v Speaker 2>and your husband gets shot to death. Sure, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>like what do you who?

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<v Speaker 3>Like, what are you gonna do? Like it's so easy

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<v Speaker 3>to judge how people react to these sort of things, but.

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<v Speaker 2>What's the good reaction? It's not what she did, But

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<v Speaker 2>I can't say that like I would have done better

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<v Speaker 2>as Ethyl, you know. The big change, the biggest difference

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<v Speaker 2>between how the Kennedy family as a unit reacts to

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<v Speaker 2>JFK getting shot. I was gonna say JFK getting blown away?

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<v Speaker 2>But how many How any more Billy Joel references are

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<v Speaker 2>necessary in this episode? Probably one more, but maybe not

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<v Speaker 2>that one.

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<v Speaker 3>Only one more.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's a big difference between how the family reacts

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<v Speaker 2>to JFK getting killed and to RFK getting killed. Because

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<v Speaker 2>when JFK gets killed, RFK is there and he is

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<v Speaker 2>there to re mold the family around him and make

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<v Speaker 2>them feel like we still have a pretty bright future.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to move forward. That's not there after he dies,

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<v Speaker 2>right Teddy Kennedy is kind of the family patriarch at

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<v Speaker 2>this point, and he tries this is not Teddy will

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<v Speaker 2>become a more capable and responsible person. He is not

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<v Speaker 2>at this point. So we will talk about and like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, to a little bit of like like how

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<v Speaker 2>could he be? Like what what do you do here? Right?

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<v Speaker 2>Like you have had to the two patriarchs of the

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<v Speaker 2>family and like a two or three like not to

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<v Speaker 2>like but like within very shorter it's like a four

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<v Speaker 2>year period.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a very short period.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, assassinated right Like.

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<v Speaker 3>And at that point you're like, is are we all

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<v Speaker 3>going to get assassinated? Like what's like?

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<v Speaker 2>What is if I'm Teddy? What I'm was like? Should

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<v Speaker 2>we keep doing this?

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<v Speaker 3>Should like rich family plan?

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<v Speaker 2>What is this? Seems like this might have been a

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<v Speaker 2>really bad plan?

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<v Speaker 3>What are you doing? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>One of the Kennedy cousins, who's you know in the

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<v Speaker 2>compound of the family later recalled to Horowitson Callier for

0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.440
<v Speaker 2>there it was so different from Jack's death, there had

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<v Speaker 2>been a coming together. Uncle Bobby had seen to that

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<v Speaker 2>in a strange way. We'd felt even more like Kennedy's

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<v Speaker 2>than ever, proud of what Jack had been, determined that

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<v Speaker 2>our time would come again. But once Uncle Bobby died,

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<v Speaker 2>there was just this sense of splitting apart. RFK Junior

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<v Speaker 2>was only an occasional presence at the Kennedy compound in

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<v Speaker 2>Hickory Hill at that point. Ethel kind one of the

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<v Speaker 2>ways she reacts to RFK getting killed is she is

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<v Speaker 2>kind of permanently angry at her son's like forever and

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<v Speaker 2>in a way that's really hard to forgive, and that

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<v Speaker 2>must have been devastating to them. The youngest children and

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<v Speaker 2>girls were, according to Colerin Horowitz, immune to her temper.

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<v Speaker 2>She's not shitty to her girls, she's not shitty to

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<v Speaker 2>the little kids, but she is really bad to Joe,

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<v Speaker 2>Bobby Junior, and David. Right quote, she told Joe he

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<v Speaker 2>must be the man of the house now and allowed

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<v Speaker 2>him to sit in his dead father's chair at the

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<v Speaker 2>dinner table. But when he hit his younger sister Carrie

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<v Speaker 2>for making noise, she gave him the infantile punishment of

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<v Speaker 2>having to walk up and down the stairs one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>times times. Later, Joe went into the yard and in

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<v Speaker 2>a moment of tenderness, took the hands of his younger

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<v Speaker 2>brothers and sisters and began to sing the Battle Hymn

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<v Speaker 2>of the Republic, their father's favorite song. Meanwhile, Ethel kept

0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.400
<v Speaker 2>saying to Bobby Junior and David get out of here,

0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.360
<v Speaker 2>as if the house itself, with all the pictures of

0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.760
<v Speaker 2>family triumphs, where a sanctuary. They defiled with their presence,

0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.520
<v Speaker 2>and you've got here is these kids are reacting to

0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.400
<v Speaker 2>their uncle and dad getting shot. These boys by acting out. Joe,

0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.360
<v Speaker 2>who's the oldest, is like being kind of a bully.

0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:30.720
<v Speaker 2>He hits his younger siblings a lot. You know, he

0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.840
<v Speaker 2>like tackles let me fire. But like that's not abnormal,

0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:35.800
<v Speaker 2>it's not great. It's certain something you got. You want

0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:37.600
<v Speaker 2>to deal with that behavior, you don't want to ignore it.

0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.920
<v Speaker 2>But like you're not a bad person as a twelve

0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:42.880
<v Speaker 2>year old boy something like that, because like that is

0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:43.600
<v Speaker 2>how you react.

0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.080
<v Speaker 3>That's an indicator that he's dealing with something and going

0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.880
<v Speaker 3>through it. Not that like he needs to be like

0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:54.360
<v Speaker 3>the target of your ire and your Yeah, like everything

0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:57.760
<v Speaker 3>that your feeling shouldn't be targeted at the at these kids.

0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:00.920
<v Speaker 2>And Ethel's only response is your disgrace the family, Like,

0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:02.960
<v Speaker 2>how fucking dare you get the hell out of here?

0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:03.160
<v Speaker 3>Right?

0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:05.800
<v Speaker 2>That is her go to parenting move for the boys.

0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Bobby Junior also acts out constantly and his particular style

0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:12.920
<v Speaker 2>he's less violent, but he seems to think the best

0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:15.360
<v Speaker 2>way for him to get attention. And nobody's really got

0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.240
<v Speaker 2>time to give attention to Bobby Junior, right, he has

0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.240
<v Speaker 2>like servants and stuff. He gets like technically attention, but

0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:25.240
<v Speaker 2>not from the people he needs it from, right, And

0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:27.080
<v Speaker 2>he tries to get it by playing pranks.

0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.319
<v Speaker 3>And he this is say yeah, it sounds like he

0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:31.920
<v Speaker 3>would do yeah, yeah.

0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:34.240
<v Speaker 2>He's a pranker, and he does one of these. He

0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.520
<v Speaker 2>plays a prank at his dad's memorial. So there's a

0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.760
<v Speaker 2>neighbor and friend of the family, Philip Kirby, who's like

0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.160
<v Speaker 2>this rich kid who lives nearby. He's part of the

0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.320
<v Speaker 2>memorial service for RFK and he recalls like before it starts,

0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.600
<v Speaker 2>the priest gives him a bell to ring during the liturgy,

0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:48.959
<v Speaker 2>and the priest says like, I'll touch you in the

0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:50.400
<v Speaker 2>shoulder when it's time for you to ring it right

0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.199
<v Speaker 2>so you don't time it wrong. And Bobby starts tapping

0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.439
<v Speaker 2>him randomly during the services a bit, so he rings

0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.440
<v Speaker 2>the bell when there's not supposed to be any kind

0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.440
<v Speaker 2>of music or noise. And like Kirby, this is like

0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.560
<v Speaker 2>the biggest funeral and national history at least since JFK.

0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.400
<v Speaker 2>He is like weeping in tears because he has fucked

0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:08.320
<v Speaker 2>this up. And he looks back and he sees RFK

0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:13.640
<v Speaker 2>Junior holding in laughter because it's a very little kid

0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:15.760
<v Speaker 2>thing to do. It is also on the mean side.

0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.679
<v Speaker 3>Oh yes, I mean if you're if you're a kid,

0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:20.480
<v Speaker 3>you're not going to really be able to Christ.

0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.680
<v Speaker 2>You're not a moral actor in the same way.

0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:29.160
<v Speaker 3>Right right? But man, that yuy sorry Phillips, Oh man.

0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:34.880
<v Speaker 2>The pranks continued. A week after his dad's funeral, David Kennedy,

0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.040
<v Speaker 2>the younger of the Kennedy of this generation Kennedy brothers,

0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:41.480
<v Speaker 2>has a birthday. This is obviously a fragile time for everybody,

0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.280
<v Speaker 2>the first birthday for one of Rfk's sons. After his death,

0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.080
<v Speaker 2>Bobby Junior decides the right thing to do is to

0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.520
<v Speaker 2>poison everybody, and I'm gonna I'm gonna read a quote

0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.439
<v Speaker 2>from Bihacker for Jerry opp and iimer here Bobby had

0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.040
<v Speaker 2>spiked everyone's milk with a laxative. Infuriated, his mother demanded,

0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.800
<v Speaker 2>just leave home, get out of my life.

0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:06.840
<v Speaker 1>Choice, and I mean, aren't going well.

0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.960
<v Speaker 2>It's very bad behavior to poison your family. You know,

0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:12.880
<v Speaker 2>there's certainly a punishment. That's now we can always tell

0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:17.319
<v Speaker 2>what kind of parents do get away with poisoning the family.

0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.440
<v Speaker 2>But get out of my life. What a devastating thing

0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 2>to say to your child, after your after his data set.

0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:25.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, right, at that point, it's like, I mean, just

0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:28.600
<v Speaker 3>let me get into politics and wait a few years

0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:29.440
<v Speaker 3>and I will, like.

0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.120
<v Speaker 2>Fucking he is. These boys are all abandonment issues. The

0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.160
<v Speaker 2>guy like that is that is the Kennedy boys of

0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.840
<v Speaker 2>this generation. Uh. Soon after, possibly to make up for

0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.080
<v Speaker 2>the ruined party, ethel flies the kids with Ted Kennedy

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:44.920
<v Speaker 2>because again he's he's around a lot, he's kind of

0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.360
<v Speaker 2>in the sometimes trying to be a father. He's also

0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.280
<v Speaker 2>very young. He's a party boy. He is not mature

0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.440
<v Speaker 2>enough to be responsible, and like, really, it's kind of

0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.080
<v Speaker 2>unreasonable to expect a man of that is to suddenly

0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.320
<v Speaker 2>take on the duties of being the head of this

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 2>family of kids who aren't yours, who belong to your

0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 2>murdered brother. That's a lot to ask of Ted. But

0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:05.240
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't do a great job at it, right, He

0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.200
<v Speaker 2>does seem to be trying very hard. Ethel takes them

0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.800
<v Speaker 2>all on this chartered boat ride. Right, And during this

0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:15.440
<v Speaker 2>chartered boat trip, Ethel's moods swung wildly and RFK Junior is,

0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.840
<v Speaker 2>as usual, pushing boundaries and fucking around with his siblings.

0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Ethel grew furious at him and David and dragged them

0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.320
<v Speaker 2>both below decks and beats them with a hair brush.

0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.440
<v Speaker 2>This is the first time something like this has happened.

0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't think she had been physically violent with them before.

0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:36.280
<v Speaker 2>It is a really like searing moment for OURFK Junior

0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:42.120
<v Speaker 2>and for David. Yeah, they remember it course. Yeah. And again,

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, on Ethyl's side of things, it's not good

0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:46.680
<v Speaker 2>to do this. I might say that, like, yeah, you

0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.480
<v Speaker 2>can't expect any kind of perfectly rational behavior from a

0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.760
<v Speaker 2>woman in the situation, but this has.

0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:54.080
<v Speaker 3>A horrible and beyond the pills.

0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, the beating. I think we've crossed the line

0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:58.200
<v Speaker 2>from just saying.

0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.320
<v Speaker 3>So it wasn't it was the first time? Was it

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.360
<v Speaker 3>the last time? Like? Did they become a pattern after that?

0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:05.280
<v Speaker 3>I don't think it's just like, yeah.

0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't get the impression that she is a present

0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.240
<v Speaker 2>enough parent for there who have been much many patterns

0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.480
<v Speaker 2>at all, other than she repeatedly tells them to leave,

0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.480
<v Speaker 2>get out of here. You're not welcome at home. That

0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.640
<v Speaker 2>is the big pattern, is her saying, get out of here.

0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.000
<v Speaker 2>You are no longer welcome at the family compound. You're

0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.320
<v Speaker 2>no longer welome. Like Bobby's gonna spend time like hiding out,

0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.440
<v Speaker 2>like camping and hiding and like outbuildings and stuff because

0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.000
<v Speaker 2>he's not supposed to be there. He spends a lot

0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.760
<v Speaker 2>of his childhood just like living with other families who

0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.080
<v Speaker 2>are kind of adjacent to the Kennedys. Yeah, it's it's

0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:37.200
<v Speaker 2>messed up, right.

0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:37.960
<v Speaker 3>Not gonna be good.

0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah. Ethel only expresses more and more frustration with

0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.760
<v Speaker 2>her kids. After this, She exiles Bobby Junior back to

0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:47.800
<v Speaker 2>a private school, this time a new one, a place

0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:52.480
<v Speaker 2>called Millbrook. And Millbrook is you're routched to rest of development,

0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.360
<v Speaker 2>right obviously you did? You know how? Like fucking Buster

0:16:55.640 --> 0:17:01.200
<v Speaker 2>is he went to that school Milford. Milford is a

0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.760
<v Speaker 2>parody of Millbrook, right, it could because this is the

0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.280
<v Speaker 2>place where like, not just the sons of the rich

0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:09.359
<v Speaker 2>and famous are sent, but it's the sons that are

0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.240
<v Speaker 2>having problems, right, You send them there to get disciplined

0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:13.640
<v Speaker 2>and to get like straightened out.

0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:13.960
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:17.960
<v Speaker 2>One teacher described it as quote a place where they're

0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.000
<v Speaker 2>rich and famous would tuck their children away.

0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:20.520
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.000
<v Speaker 2>If you're wondering what that was a reference to, it's

0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.840
<v Speaker 2>a reference to Millbrook. RFK Junior is just one of

0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:27.560
<v Speaker 2>what would become a long line of rich boys with

0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.280
<v Speaker 2>behavioral problems whose parents didn't want to deal with them

0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:34.119
<v Speaker 2>full time. And Millbrook is also located very near the

0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.080
<v Speaker 2>mansion where Timothy Leary kept all of his acid and

0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.159
<v Speaker 2>his friends on acid, and drugs are not hard to

0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.800
<v Speaker 2>come by for Millbrook kids. And it's this unique situation

0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:47.439
<v Speaker 2>of people don't really know about drugs. There's like a

0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.280
<v Speaker 2>vague understanding like maybe of marijuana, but even then that's

0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.200
<v Speaker 2>not very visible, and like LSD is so fucking new,

0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.720
<v Speaker 2>and so adults don't really know. They just noticed like, wow,

0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.120
<v Speaker 2>these kids are behaving really weird, and they don't really

0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.639
<v Speaker 2>notice that, Like, yeah, Bobby Kennedy is just always fucking

0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.199
<v Speaker 2>on drugs. Now, Like from this point forward, he is

0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:07.440
<v Speaker 2>always on drugs, you know. And it's funny because it

0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:11.440
<v Speaker 2>seems like at this point mostly it's pot Oppenheimer, because

0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 2>he's going to wind up addicted to heroin. Oppenheimer treats

0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.040
<v Speaker 2>pot like heroin. And his biography of Bobby where he's

0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.200
<v Speaker 2>like and he was getting every day, And I was like, yeah,

0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.560
<v Speaker 2>he's fifteen, you know, Like I know a lot like

0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:23.720
<v Speaker 2>half of the people I know. I'm not saying you

0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.040
<v Speaker 2>should You shouldn't do drugs until you're older. Kids, Wait

0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:28.320
<v Speaker 2>a little, my opinion.

0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:29.960
<v Speaker 3>You've brain developed and stuff and all that.

0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:32.520
<v Speaker 2>How to say, ninety plus percent of people who smoke

0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:37.560
<v Speaker 2>pot when they're sixteen, fifteen, seventeen, Like it's fine, you know, yeah, Okay,

0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.520
<v Speaker 2>you'll be okay, people generally are. Bobby is not, though

0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.400
<v Speaker 2>I will say that, But I don't know that I'm

0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:46.920
<v Speaker 2>gonna blame the drugs. I think the drugs are more

0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:51.639
<v Speaker 2>a symptom of this kid's disastrous early life. Yeah, being

0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.119
<v Speaker 2>a Kennedy and having just lost his dad. None of

0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.639
<v Speaker 2>the adults at Millbrook seem to have known how to

0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.320
<v Speaker 2>handle him, Like, how do we discipline this kid. We're

0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:02.359
<v Speaker 2>kind of now marketing a lot on the fact that

0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.520
<v Speaker 2>a Kennedy goes here. It's kind of a selling point

0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:08.240
<v Speaker 2>to other rich families. So like there's no He kind

0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.080
<v Speaker 2>of comes and goes as he pleases, and he spends

0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.080
<v Speaker 2>most of his free time getting fucked up or hunting

0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.600
<v Speaker 2>small animals with his hawk. Morgan le Fay, his primary

0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:22.240
<v Speaker 2>hobby is taking acid and going hawking, like hunting with

0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:22.760
<v Speaker 2>his hawk.

0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:24.200
<v Speaker 3>So he got to bring his hawk.

0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.200
<v Speaker 2>He does get to bring his hawk. His hawk is

0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 2>with him all the time. It is always in the room.

0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:30.679
<v Speaker 2>People who live with him is like roommates at these

0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.280
<v Speaker 2>boarding schools say that there are just birds shitting everywhere

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.159
<v Speaker 2>all the time. Like if you are living with Bobby Kennedy,

0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.840
<v Speaker 2>there's bird shit everywhere constantly because he is never far

0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.800
<v Speaker 2>from his fucking bird. It's a weird guy. He loves

0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:47.040
<v Speaker 2>his a weird guy. During this period of time, there

0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.240
<v Speaker 2>is one adult who is a consistent presence in RFK

0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:55.080
<v Speaker 2>Junior's life, and it's a guy named Limb Billings. And uh,

0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:59.000
<v Speaker 2>we will talk about old Limb, but first Cody, speaking

0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:03.560
<v Speaker 2>of Billings. Yeah, get your billings from the companies that

0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.080
<v Speaker 2>support our podcast by sending them your money.

0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:07.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm getting my money out right now.

0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Limb those billings on over to them, you know,

0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.960
<v Speaker 2>lim them out. Limit to win it. Anyway, We're done.

0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Who's at.

0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:20.840
<v Speaker 3>Back?

0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.440
<v Speaker 2>So? Limb Billings was a former New York ad executive

0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:28.240
<v Speaker 2>who had been very deep friends. He's like JFK's oldest

0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.679
<v Speaker 2>friend and like so close that Joe Kennedy, who is

0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.320
<v Speaker 2>not like the most emotional man in the world, considers

0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:37.199
<v Speaker 2>Limb basically part of the family. Right, he has a

0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:39.879
<v Speaker 2>house or he has a room at the Kennedy compound. Right,

0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.119
<v Speaker 2>He's that close with the family. And he is also gay.

0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:46.400
<v Speaker 2>He is in love with JFK. There are a lot

0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.240
<v Speaker 2>of rumors that swirl around whether or not they had

0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:50.560
<v Speaker 2>any kind of physical relationship. I don't actually think there's

0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.560
<v Speaker 2>any evidence of it. It seems like the kind of

0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.160
<v Speaker 2>thing that was not uncommon with a lot of particularly

0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:57.720
<v Speaker 2>very prominent gay in back then. We're like, I am

0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:00.199
<v Speaker 2>in love with this person, and my love take the

0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.880
<v Speaker 2>form since there's no kind of relationship that's possible, maybe,

0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:06.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, obviously they're probably not actually interested in reciprocating

0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:10.679
<v Speaker 2>it that way, but I become basically like their closest confidant.

0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:13.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm always watching out for them. I'm the guy who is.

0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:18.080
<v Speaker 3>Like, yeah, constant companion, constant buddy, who Yeah.

0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. There's a movie I like to talk about a lot,

0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.800
<v Speaker 2>if Dot Dot Dot, which is the first Malcolm McDowell movie,

0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:25.159
<v Speaker 2>and the it's.

0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:27.640
<v Speaker 3>A movie that's not the Imaginary Friends movie from the

0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:31.720
<v Speaker 3>twisted mind of John Krasinski. New that's called If as well.

0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:35.040
<v Speaker 2>That's also called IF much worse movie. This If is

0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:40.120
<v Speaker 2>an absolutely like incredible piece of cinema that everyone should watch.

0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.840
<v Speaker 2>It is about a British boarding school. It's one of

0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:46.480
<v Speaker 2>my favorite films. And McDowell has said later that, like, yeah,

0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:48.560
<v Speaker 2>we didn't of the director. I didn't know at the

0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:51.200
<v Speaker 2>time that he was gay, but now I can see

0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:53.520
<v Speaker 2>that he was. And his way of like kind of

0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.240
<v Speaker 2>making love to me was the way that he shot

0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:59.159
<v Speaker 2>me right when he was filming me. You know, I

0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:00.600
<v Speaker 2>think about that one. I think of Limb.

0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:02.560
<v Speaker 3>Billings right, Yeah, yeah, well yeah, I just have that

0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:05.239
<v Speaker 3>it's like an intense like attraction admiration, but yeah, like

0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:06.919
<v Speaker 3>you can't express it in the way you want to,

0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:10.360
<v Speaker 3>so you find, yeah, like socially acceptable ways to.

0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.280
<v Speaker 2>Do exactly exactly, and that's kind of Lim. And Lim

0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:16.960
<v Speaker 2>is obviously absolutely shattered by the jfk assassination. Right like

0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:20.120
<v Speaker 2>this destroys him as a person. He starts drinking heavily.

0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:24.360
<v Speaker 2>He's never a really functional adult right after this point. Now,

0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:28.400
<v Speaker 2>depending on who you read, opinions on limb very Jerry Oppenheimer,

0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:31.399
<v Speaker 2>who published the twenty fifteen biography of RFK Junior, is

0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.560
<v Speaker 2>incredibly homophobic, and he I kept waiting for there to

0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:38.119
<v Speaker 2>be like some evidence that Lim had abused RFK Junior

0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:40.960
<v Speaker 2>had done something really bad, but like he really just

0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:42.840
<v Speaker 2>seems to want us to be shocked by the fact

0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:45.360
<v Speaker 2>that Lim was gay and see that as inherently sinister.

0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:49.800
<v Speaker 2>He also alleges that Lim enabled Bobby's drug use. From

0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:52.040
<v Speaker 2>what I have read in other sources, I kind of

0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:55.600
<v Speaker 2>think it was the opposite. Lim is never fully functional

0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:58.480
<v Speaker 2>after JFK dies. He becomes an alcoholic and when RFK

0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:01.720
<v Speaker 2>Junior starts doing drugs, Lim, as the adult in this situation,

0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:04.840
<v Speaker 2>doesn't stop him, and he should have, does not attempt

0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:07.119
<v Speaker 2>to limit his access to drugs at all, but he

0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:10.760
<v Speaker 2>starts doing them, and I don't think he's pushing RFK Junior.

0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:12.639
<v Speaker 2>I think he is just like, yeah, sure, why the

0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:15.439
<v Speaker 2>fuck not? Right right now? The fact that Lim is

0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.439
<v Speaker 2>gay and in love with Jack with JFK shouldn't be

0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:21.399
<v Speaker 2>totally dismissed though, not because he abused Bobby, but because

0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:24.120
<v Speaker 2>I think he may have put added pressure on him

0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:26.879
<v Speaker 2>to follow his uncle Jack. There's an allegation that I

0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:29.280
<v Speaker 2>think probably does have legs that he is kind of

0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:33.880
<v Speaker 2>trying to groom Bobby into being like JFK and kind

0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:35.960
<v Speaker 2>of for a sweet reason of he like he wants

0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:38.800
<v Speaker 2>his dead best friend back, you know, like it.

0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:43.920
<v Speaker 3>It's a very right right, it's got to exist again.

0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, it's a very sad story, but not one

0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:49.560
<v Speaker 2>that I think. I don't see Lim as like a

0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:54.720
<v Speaker 2>villain now. Obviously he's not the best influence to be

0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:57.080
<v Speaker 2>the one adult in Bobby's life.

0:23:57.400 --> 0:23:58.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this seems unhealthy.

0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:03.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, but it's unhealthy because everyone is just caught

0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:07.320
<v Speaker 2>in this fucking poison matrix that is the Kennedy family legacy.

0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Right in the book after Camelot, Bobby told author Jay

0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:15.239
<v Speaker 2>Randy Tara Borelli quote In many ways, Lim was a

0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:17.320
<v Speaker 2>father to me, and he was the best friend I

0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:21.520
<v Speaker 2>will ever have. I have also read interviews with RFK

0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:25.280
<v Speaker 2>Junior's brothers, I think with David, where David was like, yeah,

0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:28.399
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of jealous of Bobby because like, none of

0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:34.040
<v Speaker 2>us had any male authority figure, any adults, male adults

0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:37.120
<v Speaker 2>interested in us after Dad died. Right, he got Lim

0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:40.000
<v Speaker 2>and he was the only one right, as opposed to

0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:42.240
<v Speaker 2>what Oppendheimer said of him being the sinister for us

0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:43.960
<v Speaker 2>that like, well, at least RFK Jr.

0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:47.359
<v Speaker 3>Had somebody had some right, whether it's a role model

0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:49.640
<v Speaker 3>or just some sort of guardian, some sort of gud

0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:50.800
<v Speaker 3>and some sort of Yeah.

0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:54.000
<v Speaker 2>And as a spoiler, David's story is going to end

0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:57.520
<v Speaker 2>a lotch faster and a lot worse than RFK Junior stuff.

0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:00.720
<v Speaker 2>So maybe Lim having something kept him from spending out

0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:01.080
<v Speaker 2>as much.

0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:01.439
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:25:02.640 --> 0:25:04.679
<v Speaker 2>That said, it is beyond arguing that Lim is not

0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:08.600
<v Speaker 2>what most people would call a responsible guardian. That said,

0:25:08.720 --> 0:25:12.080
<v Speaker 2>any kind of normal childhood for Bobby was completely off

0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:15.360
<v Speaker 2>the table at this point. Lim after RFK dies, he's

0:25:15.400 --> 0:25:18.480
<v Speaker 2>on safari when JFK dies, and after RFK gets killed,

0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Lim takes him on us. Sorry, your dad died Safari.

0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:23.200
<v Speaker 3>Maybe we'll get you another turtle.

0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:25.720
<v Speaker 2>Who knows, Yeah, get you another turtle. I've spent my

0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:28.440
<v Speaker 2>time expressing issues with Oppenheimer's biography, but I do think

0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:32.399
<v Speaker 2>his description of this trip, this second death Safari, can

0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:36.640
<v Speaker 2>FaZe how damned weird it was. With professional thirty five

0:25:36.640 --> 0:25:39.920
<v Speaker 2>millimeter cameras, Bobby and Billings documented their African adventure, which

0:25:39.960 --> 0:25:42.680
<v Speaker 2>also included a rafting trip in Egypt's Valley of the Kings,

0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:45.280
<v Speaker 2>and oddly, a VIP visit to a nightclub to watch

0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:48.120
<v Speaker 2>the gyrations of a bevy of belly dancers hosted by

0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:51.679
<v Speaker 2>members of the Egyptian Supreme Court, an evening of salacious

0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:54.160
<v Speaker 2>interest more to the hormonal adolescent than to his gay,

0:25:54.280 --> 0:25:57.800
<v Speaker 2>middle aged saparone. The Safari photos became quite lucrative because,

0:25:57.800 --> 0:26:00.160
<v Speaker 2>at that time, in the wake of the latest Kennedy tragedy,

0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:03.280
<v Speaker 2>anything a Camelot air did became front page media. Father

0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:06.120
<v Speaker 2>aware of the demand building's broker to deal with Life

0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:09.120
<v Speaker 2>magazine for an interview about their adventure and for the photos.

0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:11.800
<v Speaker 2>The questionable story was put out that young Bobby wanted

0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:13.960
<v Speaker 2>to use the money to build a memorial to his father,

0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:18.240
<v Speaker 2>in the Serengeti National Park and uh yeah, the pictures

0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:20.400
<v Speaker 2>sell for a lot of money. He gets to watch

0:26:20.440 --> 0:26:23.080
<v Speaker 2>a what sounds like almost a strip tease put on

0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:24.800
<v Speaker 2>by the Egyptian Supreme Court.

0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:27.000
<v Speaker 3>A burlesque sort of situation, just.

0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:31.560
<v Speaker 2>A baffling childhood Yeah. Yeah, if you've met members of

0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:34.000
<v Speaker 2>the Egyptian Supreme Court, you have an odd child.

0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:36.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. It's just like this weird like Western rosie sort

0:26:36.840 --> 0:26:43.560
<v Speaker 3>of like cript celebration, yeah, ring like thing. Yeah. Yeah.

0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:45.600
<v Speaker 2>It is very Game of Thrones in a lot of ways.

0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:46.560
<v Speaker 3>Right. Yeah.

0:26:46.640 --> 0:26:49.720
<v Speaker 2>So when they get back home from this very strange Safari,

0:26:50.080 --> 0:26:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Bobby continues doing shitloads of drugs and most consequentially introducing

0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:57.840
<v Speaker 2>his brothers to drugs, and he does not limit himself

0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:00.680
<v Speaker 2>to just dosing them. One of the people who sold

0:27:00.720 --> 0:27:03.160
<v Speaker 2>acid to Bobby was a neighbor kid, John Kelly, who

0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:06.640
<v Speaker 2>recalled that Bobby fed doses of acid to his parakeet.

0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:10.280
<v Speaker 2>He soon expanded to other drugs, like mescaline, which he

0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:13.320
<v Speaker 2>pushed his younger brother David to try. David was scared.

0:27:13.359 --> 0:27:16.600
<v Speaker 2>David did not want to experiment with drugs, with psychedelics,

0:27:16.680 --> 0:27:19.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, it certainly wasn't ready as soon as Bobby was.

0:27:19.520 --> 0:27:22.520
<v Speaker 2>But Bobby basically like bullies him kind of until he

0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:27.040
<v Speaker 2>takes a shitload of mescaline. And David is a young

0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:29.440
<v Speaker 2>boy too young to be doing shitloads of mescaline who

0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:32.080
<v Speaker 2>has lost his dad and is traumatized, and that can

0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:34.360
<v Speaker 2>make a trip nocked. He has a bad time of it, right,

0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:39.520
<v Speaker 2>and Kelly recalls that Bobby's instinct seems to be to

0:27:39.720 --> 0:27:42.440
<v Speaker 2>increase his younger to fuck with his younger brother, right

0:27:43.280 --> 0:27:47.280
<v Speaker 2>when so David hallucinates that Bobby's laying like or standing

0:27:47.359 --> 0:27:49.879
<v Speaker 2>up against like a bush or something, and there's leaves

0:27:49.880 --> 0:27:52.840
<v Speaker 2>pressing against him, and David hallucinates that the leaves are sharp,

0:27:52.840 --> 0:27:54.840
<v Speaker 2>and he's like, Bobby, get away, they'll cut you. And

0:27:54.880 --> 0:27:57.359
<v Speaker 2>Bobby laughs and he plunges into the leaves and then

0:27:57.440 --> 0:28:00.840
<v Speaker 2>pretends he's been impaled and fakes his own yes, and

0:28:00.880 --> 0:28:04.280
<v Speaker 2>this prompts David to cry, you're dying just like daddy.

0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:10.560
<v Speaker 3>Oh god, oh boy, Oh no, that's so bad.

0:28:10.600 --> 0:28:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh Bobby, that's.

0:28:12.840 --> 0:28:17.679
<v Speaker 3>Like so bad, like being on that drug. And no,

0:28:18.440 --> 0:28:20.200
<v Speaker 3>he thought that was really happening.

0:28:21.920 --> 0:28:23.880
<v Speaker 2>And guess guess which Kennedy is gonna wind up dying

0:28:23.960 --> 0:28:24.800
<v Speaker 2>up a drug overdose.

0:28:24.840 --> 0:28:27.320
<v Speaker 3>That's such a fucked up d D David.

0:28:28.080 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, real bad stuff, very bad behavior. Don't do that,

0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:34.200
<v Speaker 2>like lean into.

0:28:34.400 --> 0:28:39.680
<v Speaker 3>To pretend that you are especially not just like to

0:28:39.680 --> 0:28:41.840
<v Speaker 3>pretend that, Oh my god, it's so fucked up.

0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:45.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, one of the weird things. You know how America

0:28:45.080 --> 0:28:47.280
<v Speaker 2>has kind of processed nine to eleven eventually by making

0:28:47.320 --> 0:28:50.120
<v Speaker 2>a shipload of nine to eleven jokes. Bobby and his

0:28:50.160 --> 0:28:53.560
<v Speaker 2>generation of Kennedy's processed the assassinations by making a lot

0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:57.120
<v Speaker 2>of Dead Kennedy jokes, like more, even more than the

0:28:57.160 --> 0:29:00.000
<v Speaker 2>band The Dead Kennedy's death, if actually ever made jokes,

0:29:00.400 --> 0:29:03.560
<v Speaker 2>is just the name of the band anyway. The closest

0:29:03.560 --> 0:29:06.480
<v Speaker 2>the Kennedy's had to an heir apparent was Ted Kennedy,

0:29:06.520 --> 0:29:09.680
<v Speaker 2>who is a senator, who becomes a senator and is

0:29:09.760 --> 0:29:12.400
<v Speaker 2>you know somebody do people do still think? You know,

0:29:12.440 --> 0:29:14.360
<v Speaker 2>in the wake of rfk's death, Hey, he could be

0:29:14.400 --> 0:29:16.920
<v Speaker 2>the president. You know, he's pretty good looking, smart, he's

0:29:16.920 --> 0:29:19.920
<v Speaker 2>obviously starting to have success in politics. But within a

0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:22.840
<v Speaker 2>year of rfk's demise, Ted is involved in the infamous

0:29:22.920 --> 0:29:27.240
<v Speaker 2>chap Equitic incident, which fucking Republicans would not stop talking about,

0:29:27.280 --> 0:29:30.959
<v Speaker 2>and it is a pretty bad situation. He is probably drunk,

0:29:31.000 --> 0:29:34.040
<v Speaker 2>he drives off of a bridge, he abandons his the

0:29:34.120 --> 0:29:37.040
<v Speaker 2>crash afterwards, and he abandons his twenty eight year old passenger,

0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Mary Joe Kopekney, who drowns. Right, you know, the best

0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:43.840
<v Speaker 2>case scenario is that Ted is so drunk that he's

0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:47.120
<v Speaker 2>not really aware of what he's doing. I guess some

0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:49.440
<v Speaker 2>people will argue it was just an accident. But he

0:29:49.600 --> 0:29:52.560
<v Speaker 2>leaves afterwards and he goes to sleep, and it's like,

0:29:52.880 --> 0:29:55.040
<v Speaker 2>is bad he does not he does a bad thing.

0:29:55.200 --> 0:29:56.080
<v Speaker 3>He does a bad thing.

0:29:56.440 --> 0:30:00.400
<v Speaker 2>I will say, Yeah, Now this is again like I

0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:02.360
<v Speaker 2>don't know how you want to. We're not going to

0:30:02.760 --> 0:30:05.480
<v Speaker 2>dissect fucking chap equitdic God. You can find so much

0:30:05.560 --> 0:30:08.000
<v Speaker 2>of that if you really want to. What matters to

0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:10.720
<v Speaker 2>us today is that it more or less punctures heads

0:30:10.760 --> 0:30:13.520
<v Speaker 2>shot at the presidency, right, That is not really going

0:30:13.560 --> 0:30:14.480
<v Speaker 2>to be in the concresce.

0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:16.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I kind of took them out of that.

0:30:17.000 --> 0:30:19.000
<v Speaker 2>Now you could argue, and I think this is the

0:30:19.040 --> 0:30:22.520
<v Speaker 2>strongest argument that he is probably the best politician in

0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:25.200
<v Speaker 2>terms of technical skill, of any of his generation. Of

0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:27.720
<v Speaker 2>the Kennedy's right, some of this is just because he's

0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:30.600
<v Speaker 2>alive long enough to really have a full political career.

0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:34.320
<v Speaker 2>But he's a very influential man in Congress. He winds

0:30:34.400 --> 0:30:37.360
<v Speaker 2>up being kind of like, arguably most influential Democrat in

0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:40.280
<v Speaker 2>Congress for a significant period of time. And that's you know,

0:30:40.560 --> 0:30:42.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot for a family for most people. But that

0:30:43.000 --> 0:30:45.800
<v Speaker 2>is a far cry from the vision Joe Kennedy had

0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:48.360
<v Speaker 2>for his family, and even further from the rosy image

0:30:48.400 --> 0:30:52.600
<v Speaker 2>of Camelot perpetuated in the public memory. Talk about a

0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Kennedy curse had been a thing for about as long

0:30:55.240 --> 0:30:59.000
<v Speaker 2>as anyone in the family could remember, but once RFK died,

0:30:59.040 --> 0:31:00.760
<v Speaker 2>it went from something to and kind of a half

0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:04.240
<v Speaker 2>joke sort of deal to something the upcoming generation felt

0:31:04.360 --> 0:31:08.560
<v Speaker 2>deep within their bones as destiny. Even Joe Kennedy, the

0:31:08.600 --> 0:31:12.080
<v Speaker 2>man whose ambition had started this all, seemed to feel

0:31:12.120 --> 0:31:14.440
<v Speaker 2>a sense of woe at what he now saw coming

0:31:14.520 --> 0:31:19.520
<v Speaker 2>for his grandchildren. Chris Lawfer, JFK's nephew, later claimed, sometimes

0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Grandpa would look at us as if he wanted to

0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:24.080
<v Speaker 2>say something. His mouth would move sort of convulsively, as

0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:26.040
<v Speaker 2>if some words were trying to get out. Then this

0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:28.360
<v Speaker 2>cloudy look would come over his eyes and he'd slouched

0:31:28.400 --> 0:31:30.680
<v Speaker 2>down into his wheelchair and the attendant would wheel him

0:31:30.680 --> 0:31:33.840
<v Speaker 2>off and that in the that biography, Maybe it was

0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:36.200
<v Speaker 2>just he you know, he was stroking out, he couldn't come.

0:31:37.880 --> 0:31:40.720
<v Speaker 2>Maybe it's that he's maybe he regretted, like, oh, I

0:31:40.760 --> 0:31:43.600
<v Speaker 2>may my entire family to calamity.

0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:51.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, maybe sorry for the pressure I yeah created for you, all.

0:31:51.800 --> 0:31:55.600
<v Speaker 2>Of this, all of these terrible, terrible things. And he does,

0:31:55.920 --> 0:31:56.400
<v Speaker 2>he lives.

0:31:56.440 --> 0:31:56.600
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:31:56.640 --> 0:31:58.320
<v Speaker 2>It's one of those things like I don't know if

0:31:58.360 --> 0:32:00.160
<v Speaker 2>Joe Kennedy made a deal with a devil or some

0:32:00.200 --> 0:32:03.480
<v Speaker 2>sort of like House of Usher, asked cosmic evil right

0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:05.480
<v Speaker 2>to have his success and then have it all ripped

0:32:05.520 --> 0:32:08.520
<v Speaker 2>away when his children die at the last moment of

0:32:08.560 --> 0:32:10.720
<v Speaker 2>his life. But that's kind of what happens, right. He

0:32:10.800 --> 0:32:13.200
<v Speaker 2>lives long enough to see Chap equittic and then he

0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:15.080
<v Speaker 2>fucking drops right after that.

0:32:15.280 --> 0:32:18.560
<v Speaker 3>You know. Yeah, he made some sort of deal and

0:32:19.480 --> 0:32:20.680
<v Speaker 3>it led to the curse.

0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:21.840
<v Speaker 2>It led to the curse.

0:32:22.320 --> 0:32:24.520
<v Speaker 3>Part of it was you gotta kind of you gotta watch,

0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:26.560
<v Speaker 3>you gotta watch some of it. Yeah, you're done.

0:32:26.800 --> 0:32:28.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah he made it. And look he made some good calls,

0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:31.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, making Mark Hamill the family Lawyer, great move

0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:35.280
<v Speaker 2>House of Usher, good show. Watch it. Oh it's oh

0:32:35.400 --> 0:32:38.440
<v Speaker 2>my god, it's an incredible Mark Campbell performance. Yeah, really

0:32:38.440 --> 0:32:40.680
<v Speaker 2>really good show. Really good show. Everyone else is playing

0:32:40.760 --> 0:32:44.880
<v Speaker 2>essentially like a Poe character, and Mark Hamill is playing

0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:49.000
<v Speaker 2>like a Lovecraft protagonist. It's quite good. It's quite interesting,

0:32:49.040 --> 0:32:52.200
<v Speaker 2>all right. Yeah, I enjoyed it a lot. So I

0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:54.520
<v Speaker 2>will say, you know, you've got that one picture from

0:32:54.600 --> 0:32:58.240
<v Speaker 2>the Collier in Horowitz book, where Grandpa maybe started to

0:32:58.280 --> 0:33:01.760
<v Speaker 2>regret some of his decisions. In his biography of RFK Junior,

0:33:01.800 --> 0:33:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Oppenheimer also talks to a significant number of people who

0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:07.320
<v Speaker 2>are around the family and in the family at this point.

0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Pet's a darker picture of what Joe mostly tried to

0:33:10.040 --> 0:33:13.360
<v Speaker 2>pass on to his grandchildren, his twin family mantras where

0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:17.680
<v Speaker 2>Kennedy's don't cry and Kennedy's don't complain, which is whatever

0:33:17.720 --> 0:33:20.240
<v Speaker 2>else not going to help you process everything that's happened

0:33:20.280 --> 0:33:20.560
<v Speaker 2>to them.

0:33:20.600 --> 0:33:24.760
<v Speaker 3>If Kennedys do die, yeah, you might want those other

0:33:24.800 --> 0:33:25.280
<v Speaker 3>two things.

0:33:25.320 --> 0:33:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Actually they might need to cry. Maybe some complaints are warranted. Yeah,

0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:33.160
<v Speaker 2>but he does live long enough to see his blessings

0:33:33.160 --> 0:33:36.160
<v Speaker 2>turn into curses. His three most prominent sons dead because

0:33:36.240 --> 0:33:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Joe died a while ago, his remaining son disgraced, and

0:33:39.920 --> 0:33:42.560
<v Speaker 2>the vast entitled brood that he had helped create turn

0:33:42.600 --> 0:33:46.440
<v Speaker 2>into a dynasty hurdling inefftably towards doom when he finally

0:33:46.480 --> 0:33:51.360
<v Speaker 2>passed on November eighteenth, nineteen sixty nine. Bobby by this

0:33:51.400 --> 0:33:54.360
<v Speaker 2>point seemed to show less inclination to follow his dad

0:33:54.440 --> 0:33:57.680
<v Speaker 2>into politics and decidedly more of a bent to being

0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:02.280
<v Speaker 2>a we might call like a I got mild gangster,

0:34:02.560 --> 0:34:05.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, like a like a kind of adorable child gangster,

0:34:05.720 --> 0:34:08.840
<v Speaker 2>because he has in this period formed a street gang

0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:11.319
<v Speaker 2>focused or into the street game, made up entirely of

0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:14.440
<v Speaker 2>Kennedy's and their friends, who are also very rich kids

0:34:14.600 --> 0:34:17.960
<v Speaker 2>from this incredibly rich neighborhood with a family compound is located.

0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:24.120
<v Speaker 2>They call themselves the Hannas port Terrors, the HPTs as

0:34:24.160 --> 0:34:24.960
<v Speaker 2>we'll call them.

0:34:24.840 --> 0:34:26.799
<v Speaker 3>The assumptions, the assumptions.

0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:31.600
<v Speaker 2>So Joe Bobby Kennedy's got a street gang, and initially

0:34:31.640 --> 0:34:34.640
<v Speaker 2>it's just his older brother Joe who's seventeen, you know,

0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:37.360
<v Speaker 2>he's fifteen, and his brother David who's fourteen, but a

0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:39.759
<v Speaker 2>bunch of cousins and neighbors join in and they'll they'll

0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:42.720
<v Speaker 2>all dress in black and they'll paint their faces with grease.

0:34:42.800 --> 0:34:46.200
<v Speaker 2>And first off, you know what, kudos guys to painting,

0:34:46.239 --> 0:34:48.440
<v Speaker 2>to being rich white kids who paint your faces with

0:34:48.480 --> 0:34:51.440
<v Speaker 2>grease and aren't doing blackface. You know, they were just

0:34:51.480 --> 0:34:52.440
<v Speaker 2>trying to hide in the night.

0:34:52.440 --> 0:34:56.880
<v Speaker 3>And yeah, it's like, well, you know you're who we dodged.

0:34:57.120 --> 0:34:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Kennedy Families isn't great at dodging bullets, but they did

0:34:59.640 --> 0:35:00.520
<v Speaker 2>dodge that one.

0:35:00.640 --> 0:35:05.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thank goodness for that. Difference in motivation to Greece.

0:35:05.480 --> 0:35:08.879
<v Speaker 2>God, their motivation is they're doing pettybags. I imagine were

0:35:08.880 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 2>also they might have been, might have been, might have been.

0:35:10.960 --> 0:35:11.920
<v Speaker 3>A little treat for them.

0:35:11.960 --> 0:35:16.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, I can't prove they weren't exactly, I can't.

0:35:16.640 --> 0:35:19.920
<v Speaker 2>I can't prove a little justin Trudeau energy wasn't present

0:35:19.920 --> 0:35:22.719
<v Speaker 2>there some of them. Sure sco should drop of that

0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:27.600
<v Speaker 2>a dollip Sistically, One former member of the hyenasport Terrors

0:35:27.680 --> 0:35:30.800
<v Speaker 2>later claimed to the author of the book After Camelot quote,

0:35:31.040 --> 0:35:34.640
<v Speaker 2>we'd shoot off firecrackers to flate people's tires, stick potatoes,

0:35:34.680 --> 0:35:37.680
<v Speaker 2>and the exhaust pipes of cars, turnover trash cans mess

0:35:37.719 --> 0:35:40.879
<v Speaker 2>around with girls, all sorts of mischief. After we did

0:35:40.880 --> 0:35:42.919
<v Speaker 2>our bit, Ethel would get called I know, I don't

0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:45.400
<v Speaker 2>know what mess around with girls want in this context.

0:35:45.040 --> 0:35:47.040
<v Speaker 3>In the context of like vandalism.

0:35:47.200 --> 0:35:49.520
<v Speaker 2>They could be making out with them, they could be

0:35:49.560 --> 0:35:52.480
<v Speaker 2>stealing their underwear, there could be There's a lot of

0:35:52.560 --> 0:35:55.400
<v Speaker 2>mess around, with a lot of room for that to

0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:56.000
<v Speaker 2>be ugly.

0:35:56.080 --> 0:35:59.600
<v Speaker 3>It's an odd item to include on that list. Yeah,

0:35:59.640 --> 0:36:00.759
<v Speaker 3>gang activities.

0:36:00.880 --> 0:36:03.400
<v Speaker 2>If I'm the after Camelot author, I'm immediately be like,

0:36:03.400 --> 0:36:05.279
<v Speaker 2>wait a second, Wait a second. Let let's talk about

0:36:05.280 --> 0:36:05.680
<v Speaker 2>the messenger.

0:36:07.080 --> 0:36:09.400
<v Speaker 3>Let's gettext.

0:36:10.640 --> 0:36:13.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to continue to quote from this terror member.

0:36:13.719 --> 0:36:15.799
<v Speaker 2>After we did our bit, Ethel, we get tech calls

0:36:15.840 --> 0:36:18.600
<v Speaker 2>from everyone in town complaining about it. At first, she

0:36:18.800 --> 0:36:21.480
<v Speaker 2>used to say, my kids were home asleep last night.

0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:23.799
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what you're talking about. But one night

0:36:23.840 --> 0:36:26.320
<v Speaker 2>she waited up and sure enough she caught me, Bobby

0:36:26.320 --> 0:36:28.320
<v Speaker 2>and David jumping out of one of the second floor

0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:30.520
<v Speaker 2>windows of her home. She chased us all over the

0:36:30.560 --> 0:36:32.520
<v Speaker 2>compound in the middle of the night and her nightgown

0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:35.080
<v Speaker 2>and bare feet, finally losing us somewhere on the stretch

0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:39.160
<v Speaker 2>of beach. Now one of the real through lines in

0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:41.799
<v Speaker 2>all these Kennedy kids' stories is that the adults have

0:36:42.080 --> 0:36:44.919
<v Speaker 2>very little power in these relationships. And it's not because

0:36:44.920 --> 0:36:48.280
<v Speaker 2>they're afraid to discipline their kids. Sometimes when they're around,

0:36:48.280 --> 0:36:51.520
<v Speaker 2>they disciplined them very severely. It's it's that they're just

0:36:51.640 --> 0:36:56.200
<v Speaker 2>not there right, and they're they're not there in large

0:36:56.200 --> 0:36:58.120
<v Speaker 2>from because they have all of these as the Kennedy's,

0:36:58.160 --> 0:37:02.279
<v Speaker 2>They've got this constant web of social political business, out fundraisers,

0:37:02.280 --> 0:37:04.000
<v Speaker 2>all sorts of shit that they have to do because

0:37:04.040 --> 0:37:06.640
<v Speaker 2>of who their family is. And they're also on vacation

0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:08.759
<v Speaker 2>a lot. They're traveling, they don't always want their kids around,

0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:10.799
<v Speaker 2>and they're able to not have their kids around right.

0:37:11.160 --> 0:37:13.400
<v Speaker 2>Half of the brood are away at boarding schools at

0:37:13.440 --> 0:37:16.440
<v Speaker 2>any given time, and the kids at boarding schools have

0:37:16.480 --> 0:37:19.759
<v Speaker 2>access to money and thus drugs, but not any real

0:37:19.880 --> 0:37:22.880
<v Speaker 2>submit supervision. You know, maybe the monk who teaches English

0:37:22.960 --> 0:37:25.080
<v Speaker 2>will take an interest in them, but like that's some

0:37:25.200 --> 0:37:26.799
<v Speaker 2>random monk. He doesn't have a lot of power in

0:37:26.840 --> 0:37:28.200
<v Speaker 2>this relationship, you know.

0:37:28.360 --> 0:37:30.000
<v Speaker 3>And at a certain point, after like a lot of

0:37:30.040 --> 0:37:33.200
<v Speaker 3>the reaction from like her specifically, Yeah, I feel like

0:37:33.320 --> 0:37:35.279
<v Speaker 3>it's just not going to be effective no matter what

0:37:35.400 --> 0:37:38.520
<v Speaker 3>where it's like okay, yeah, you're being this horrible to

0:37:38.719 --> 0:37:42.520
<v Speaker 3>your your small children. Yeah, we don't really care for

0:37:42.560 --> 0:37:46.040
<v Speaker 3>that approval or have like that sense of like, oh,

0:37:46.080 --> 0:37:48.920
<v Speaker 3>we don't want to upset you know the adults.

0:37:48.760 --> 0:37:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah became now Another constant through line is, as

0:37:52.640 --> 0:37:55.719
<v Speaker 2>I mentioned earlier, this sense of gallows humor that pervades

0:37:55.800 --> 0:37:57.720
<v Speaker 2>the kids as a result of the cloud of death

0:37:57.719 --> 0:37:59.480
<v Speaker 2>that seemed to hang over their family. And I think

0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:02.600
<v Speaker 2>the most passage from this period comes from I'm gonna

0:38:02.600 --> 0:38:05.120
<v Speaker 2>read a passage from the book After Camelot describing this

0:38:05.920 --> 0:38:08.560
<v Speaker 2>one prank had the boys playing in busy Hyanna's port

0:38:08.600 --> 0:38:10.880
<v Speaker 2>tourist traffic, only to have one kid fall to the

0:38:10.920 --> 0:38:13.880
<v Speaker 2>ground while another smacked the back of a car, making

0:38:13.920 --> 0:38:16.520
<v Speaker 2>a loud noise. Then they would all gather around their

0:38:16.560 --> 0:38:19.399
<v Speaker 2>fallen chum and shout hysterical sentiments at the drivers, such

0:38:19.400 --> 0:38:28.080
<v Speaker 2>as you've just killed another Kennedy's. When panicked people came

0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:29.640
<v Speaker 2>to the aid of the young Kennedy sprawled in the

0:38:29.680 --> 0:38:31.360
<v Speaker 2>middle of the road, the boys would milk it for

0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:32.919
<v Speaker 2>all it was worth by trying to get the boy

0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:35.040
<v Speaker 2>to move his legs and then saying it looked as

0:38:35.080 --> 0:38:38.520
<v Speaker 2>if he'd been paralyzed. But then the fallen Kennedy would

0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:41.000
<v Speaker 2>suddenly stand up and walk away. At that, the other

0:38:41.040 --> 0:38:44.359
<v Speaker 2>boys would proclaim, look, it's a Kennedy miracle, and then race,

0:38:44.440 --> 0:38:50.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh god, I gotta say that kind of rules.

0:38:50.960 --> 0:38:54.520
<v Speaker 3>That's exactly if you were a kid and the Kennedy

0:38:54.520 --> 0:38:57.800
<v Speaker 3>and all that stuff, like, of course you killed another Kennedy.

0:38:57.880 --> 0:38:58.680
<v Speaker 3>Such a funny thing.

0:38:58.880 --> 0:39:02.600
<v Speaker 2>It's incredibly funny. It's amazingly funny.

0:39:02.719 --> 0:39:06.920
<v Speaker 3>Like horrific thing. Uh the acid trip? What, yeah, Bobby

0:39:06.960 --> 0:39:07.680
<v Speaker 3>did horrific.

0:39:07.960 --> 0:39:12.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's funny. That's really funny. That's just actually very

0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:14.440
<v Speaker 2>good comedy.

0:39:14.920 --> 0:39:16.040
<v Speaker 3>He kills another Kennedy.

0:39:16.200 --> 0:39:18.920
<v Speaker 2>That's I'll go so far as to say it that

0:39:19.000 --> 0:39:22.080
<v Speaker 2>might actually even be example of like healthy processing of

0:39:22.120 --> 0:39:26.560
<v Speaker 2>all of this. Right, take like you're taking to some extent,

0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:29.320
<v Speaker 2>you're taking some ownership of this terrible thing that happened

0:39:29.320 --> 0:39:32.080
<v Speaker 2>to your family, right, and maybe that does help a little.

0:39:32.120 --> 0:39:35.200
<v Speaker 3>And you're also taking you you're also like very aware

0:39:35.280 --> 0:39:39.400
<v Speaker 3>of like the world's like eyes, and you're.

0:39:39.320 --> 0:39:42.520
<v Speaker 2>Kind of taking agency as opposed to just being subjected

0:39:42.560 --> 0:39:45.400
<v Speaker 2>to it. You're taking agency on it and like using

0:39:45.440 --> 0:39:47.560
<v Speaker 2>it for your own laughter entertainment.

0:39:47.640 --> 0:39:48.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly.

0:39:48.719 --> 0:39:51.080
<v Speaker 2>Kind of see it as the healthiest thing that anyone

0:39:51.080 --> 0:39:51.680
<v Speaker 2>has done.

0:39:51.480 --> 0:39:51.759
<v Speaker 1>In this.

0:39:53.239 --> 0:39:53.520
<v Speaker 2>Story.

0:39:54.080 --> 0:39:58.160
<v Speaker 3>It's definitely towards the top in this story of healthy reactions.

0:39:58.360 --> 0:40:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and again, just very good comedy.

0:40:03.200 --> 0:40:06.200
<v Speaker 3>It's a Kennedy miracle. It's Kennedy miracles.

0:40:06.320 --> 0:40:11.000
<v Speaker 2>That's a good line. Back at Millbrook, Bobby cultivated a

0:40:11.200 --> 0:40:14.680
<v Speaker 2>by this point probably understandable reputation for being out of

0:40:14.719 --> 0:40:18.279
<v Speaker 2>control and very odd. Like any kid, he had folks

0:40:18.320 --> 0:40:20.279
<v Speaker 2>who got along with him and people who thought he

0:40:20.400 --> 0:40:22.200
<v Speaker 2>was a dick. You can find people being like, yeah,

0:40:22.200 --> 0:40:23.799
<v Speaker 2>he was like the bully of the school. You can

0:40:23.800 --> 0:40:25.239
<v Speaker 2>find people being like, yeah, he was like kind of

0:40:25.239 --> 0:40:26.480
<v Speaker 2>a chill dude. He was a little bit of a

0:40:26.520 --> 0:40:30.440
<v Speaker 2>loner and outsider. I'm not I wasn't around right. I'm

0:40:30.480 --> 0:40:32.799
<v Speaker 2>just gonna say everyone does agree about one thing, which

0:40:32.840 --> 0:40:36.400
<v Speaker 2>is that he was really specifically weird about his hawk

0:40:36.880 --> 0:40:37.920
<v Speaker 2>and dead animals.

0:40:38.040 --> 0:40:41.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I was gonna say, like, yeah, his dorm smelled

0:40:41.400 --> 0:40:44.000
<v Speaker 3>like bird shit. Yep, that was the thing everybody thought.

0:40:44.680 --> 0:40:46.600
<v Speaker 2>Boy Cody, it's about to get a lot weirder, But

0:40:46.719 --> 0:40:56.800
<v Speaker 2>first it's about to be ads. Oh okay, we're back Cody,

0:40:56.800 --> 0:40:58.759
<v Speaker 2>you had a follow up question, what do.

0:40:58.680 --> 0:41:00.840
<v Speaker 3>You mean by his relationship with dead animals?

0:41:01.080 --> 0:41:07.759
<v Speaker 2>Great question, Cody, Great question. So let's go back to

0:41:07.800 --> 0:41:10.240
<v Speaker 2>the undeniable reality that I don't know, like a month

0:41:10.360 --> 0:41:13.279
<v Speaker 2>or two time flat circle right now. But it became

0:41:13.320 --> 0:41:18.280
<v Speaker 2>public knowledge that RFK Junior, serious third party presidential candidate

0:41:18.360 --> 0:41:21.600
<v Speaker 2>with like a possibly historic chunk of the votes certainly

0:41:21.600 --> 0:41:23.919
<v Speaker 2>looked like that at that point in the election, had

0:41:24.000 --> 0:41:26.600
<v Speaker 2>part of his brain eaten by a worm that got

0:41:26.640 --> 0:41:29.600
<v Speaker 2>in there, presumably for some weird meat he ate and

0:41:29.640 --> 0:41:34.240
<v Speaker 2>then died after eating part of his brain. Right the claim.

0:41:34.600 --> 0:41:39.040
<v Speaker 2>That's the claim, and the claim came out during divorce proceedings, right,

0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:42.040
<v Speaker 2>And this is part of RFK trying to basically argue

0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:44.719
<v Speaker 2>his alimony should be amended in light of his disability.

0:41:44.800 --> 0:41:44.960
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:41:45.280 --> 0:41:47.279
<v Speaker 2>And as a result of that aspect of it, I

0:41:47.280 --> 0:41:49.239
<v Speaker 2>have seen people doubting was he just lying? You know,

0:41:49.280 --> 0:41:51.680
<v Speaker 2>maybe there was no worm. He's bullshitting like and I'm

0:41:51.680 --> 0:41:55.120
<v Speaker 2>going to say this, a survey of his childhood makes

0:41:55.160 --> 0:41:59.080
<v Speaker 2>me feel, yeah, that brain worm was probably real. Probably

0:41:59.360 --> 0:42:03.239
<v Speaker 2>this is the story that we're about to tell that

0:42:03.360 --> 0:42:05.640
<v Speaker 2>makes me feel that way. So as an adult, one

0:42:05.680 --> 0:42:07.239
<v Speaker 2>of the sources we have on Bobby's life is this

0:42:07.280 --> 0:42:09.919
<v Speaker 2>book called The River Keepers, which he co writes, I think,

0:42:10.160 --> 0:42:13.040
<v Speaker 2>and it's related to he works for an environmental charity

0:42:13.080 --> 0:42:16.240
<v Speaker 2>called the River Keepers, and his book on that includes

0:42:16.280 --> 0:42:19.520
<v Speaker 2>a deeply sanitized and kind of short version of his

0:42:19.600 --> 0:42:22.040
<v Speaker 2>own backstory. And one of the things he talks about

0:42:22.480 --> 0:42:24.560
<v Speaker 2>is his time at Millbrook that he spent with what

0:42:24.640 --> 0:42:27.799
<v Speaker 2>he calls an informal falconry program. And this is the

0:42:27.960 --> 0:42:31.160
<v Speaker 2>very sanitized version of how that his falconry at Millbrook went.

0:42:31.680 --> 0:42:34.320
<v Speaker 2>In the autumn, we captured and trained kestrels, red tails,

0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:37.359
<v Speaker 2>and immature passage hawks on their first migration. I've caught

0:42:37.400 --> 0:42:39.920
<v Speaker 2>upwards of fifty hawks a day squatting atop a ridge

0:42:39.920 --> 0:42:42.600
<v Speaker 2>line on Schinnemunk Mountain in the Hudson Valley. In autumn,

0:42:42.719 --> 0:42:46.279
<v Speaker 2>we flew wild redtails, falcons, and ghost shocks and pioneered

0:42:46.280 --> 0:42:49.480
<v Speaker 2>many of the game hawking techniques still used by American falconers.

0:42:49.680 --> 0:42:54.759
<v Speaker 2>We talked about hawks every spare moment. So maybe that's

0:42:54.800 --> 0:42:56.680
<v Speaker 2>all true. It can coexist with what I'm about to

0:42:56.680 --> 0:42:59.880
<v Speaker 2>read next. But Jerry Oppenheimer, biographer talks to one of

0:43:00.000 --> 0:43:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Bobby's child falcon Rebuddies who describes him very differently and

0:43:04.719 --> 0:43:08.840
<v Speaker 2>in a much less camera friendly manner Mill Brooks, and

0:43:08.880 --> 0:43:14.040
<v Speaker 2>this is his falcon rebuddy talking years later, millbrooks motto

0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:18.600
<v Speaker 2>was non Sibby said, kuntsis Latin for not for oneself,

0:43:18.640 --> 0:43:22.360
<v Speaker 2>but for all. Everyone had to participate in required community service,

0:43:22.400 --> 0:43:25.400
<v Speaker 2>whether it be working in the school post office, washing dishes,

0:43:25.440 --> 0:43:28.759
<v Speaker 2>performing grounds maintenance, or handling the zoo's inhabitants. Bobby had

0:43:28.800 --> 0:43:31.040
<v Speaker 2>chosen the latter, But the way he described his falcon

0:43:31.040 --> 0:43:33.439
<v Speaker 2>and birding interest in his book was not the way

0:43:33.520 --> 0:43:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Beer Regard, who is that's the kid telling the story

0:43:36.560 --> 0:43:38.880
<v Speaker 2>who later went on to teach ornithology at the University

0:43:38.920 --> 0:43:41.600
<v Speaker 2>of North Carolina, remembered to Beer Regard, who was one

0:43:41.640 --> 0:43:44.240
<v Speaker 2>of the leaders of the falconry group at Millbrook, Bobby's

0:43:44.239 --> 0:43:46.040
<v Speaker 2>pursuit of the sport was more like a scene out

0:43:46.040 --> 0:43:48.480
<v Speaker 2>of a horror movie. Myself and a couple of others

0:43:48.480 --> 0:43:50.280
<v Speaker 2>had our hawks, and we'd go out in the countryside

0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:52.960
<v Speaker 2>hunting rabbits and squirrels. But one of the reasons why

0:43:53.000 --> 0:43:55.080
<v Speaker 2>I didn't spend much time with Bobby was his idea

0:43:55.160 --> 0:43:58.000
<v Speaker 2>a falconry next to the school there was a cowpit

0:43:58.040 --> 0:44:01.319
<v Speaker 2>where the local dairy farmers threw their dead cows, and

0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:03.960
<v Speaker 2>it was full of rats. Bobby would take his hawk

0:44:04.000 --> 0:44:06.040
<v Speaker 2>and go hunting rats in the midst of the rotting

0:44:06.120 --> 0:44:08.839
<v Speaker 2>cow carcasses, and he's sort of reveled and how off

0:44:08.880 --> 0:44:13.799
<v Speaker 2>the wall that was now Beer Regard expressed disgust at

0:44:13.840 --> 0:44:16.520
<v Speaker 2>Bobby for wanting to be in such a disgusting environment.

0:44:16.560 --> 0:44:19.200
<v Speaker 2>Wanted to go hunt rats in this rotting cow carcass

0:44:19.239 --> 0:44:22.359
<v Speaker 2>graveyard rather than going to like a well maintained chunk

0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:27.120
<v Speaker 2>of the woods and doing the thing that right right,

0:44:27.640 --> 0:44:30.000
<v Speaker 2>and one gets the feeling. I think his discuss comes from.

0:44:30.120 --> 0:44:33.680
<v Speaker 2>This is something Bobby did specifically to freak out preppier

0:44:33.760 --> 0:44:36.279
<v Speaker 2>rich kids like Beer Regard. Right, you know, he is

0:44:36.320 --> 0:44:39.120
<v Speaker 2>also a rich kid, but he is not preppy, and

0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:41.080
<v Speaker 2>he wants to kind of freak the normies.

0:44:41.160 --> 0:44:42.319
<v Speaker 3>He's a little freaking.

0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:45.520
<v Speaker 2>He's also no one goes to the rotting corpse pit

0:44:45.600 --> 0:44:47.560
<v Speaker 2>because it's a rotting corpse pit, so he can get

0:44:47.640 --> 0:44:49.800
<v Speaker 2>high there. He can do drugs, he can take acid,

0:44:49.920 --> 0:44:52.480
<v Speaker 2>can He spends a lot of time hunting rats and

0:44:52.520 --> 0:44:58.480
<v Speaker 2>taking acid at a like fucking pit of bloated cow carcasses.

0:44:58.560 --> 0:45:01.880
<v Speaker 2>That is a big chunk of Bobbby Junior's childhood.

0:45:01.600 --> 0:45:05.200
<v Speaker 3>And that's a little choko Bobby's brain. That's gonna right.

0:45:05.400 --> 0:45:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. One of the kids who visited the pit with Bobby,

0:45:09.239 --> 0:45:11.600
<v Speaker 2>maybe because Bobby had drugs and he wanted to score them,

0:45:11.880 --> 0:45:14.800
<v Speaker 2>was the son of a Republican horse trainer, Jamie Fanning.

0:45:15.120 --> 0:45:18.360
<v Speaker 2>And Jamie Fanning gives us this description of RFK Junior

0:45:18.400 --> 0:45:20.640
<v Speaker 2>and his late teens on the cusp of adulthood, and

0:45:20.719 --> 0:45:23.800
<v Speaker 2>it is the most incredible description I have read of

0:45:23.920 --> 0:45:27.680
<v Speaker 2>a subject. For these episodes, I still to this day

0:45:27.840 --> 0:45:30.520
<v Speaker 2>see him standing there in his black necktie that he

0:45:30.600 --> 0:45:33.479
<v Speaker 2>wore every day over a blue Oxford Brooks Brothers shirt

0:45:33.680 --> 0:45:36.360
<v Speaker 2>and a beat up tweed jacket, and wearing the wildest

0:45:36.360 --> 0:45:39.240
<v Speaker 2>bell bottoms that were purple with day glow green stripes

0:45:39.440 --> 0:45:41.640
<v Speaker 2>like he was some soul band guy, and in his

0:45:41.680 --> 0:45:44.440
<v Speaker 2>funky boots, and there he was hunting rats out of

0:45:44.480 --> 0:45:48.040
<v Speaker 2>that pile of dead sheep and cow carcasses. Yeah, I

0:45:48.160 --> 0:45:59.760
<v Speaker 2>bets were funky, amazing, amazing paragraph well, oh cows and sheep,

0:46:00.800 --> 0:46:04.120
<v Speaker 2>cows and sheep yeah yeah, So debate and the sources

0:46:04.239 --> 0:46:09.480
<v Speaker 2>was it just thousands of rotting cow carcasses. By either way,

0:46:09.680 --> 0:46:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Bobby loves carcass.

0:46:11.239 --> 0:46:15.040
<v Speaker 3>Apparently he loves being around them, he really does.

0:46:15.080 --> 0:46:20.640
<v Speaker 2>He seems to be comforted by death. I don't know,

0:46:20.800 --> 0:46:23.560
<v Speaker 2>and it's Fanning. I think this description from Fanning is

0:46:23.719 --> 0:46:27.960
<v Speaker 2>the most accurate of some competing descriptions of child RFK Junior.

0:46:28.000 --> 0:46:30.960
<v Speaker 2>Because he's an edgy kid. He has been traumatized by

0:46:31.000 --> 0:46:34.399
<v Speaker 2>some seriously dark shit. He has a deranged, unhealthy family life.

0:46:34.440 --> 0:46:36.960
<v Speaker 2>He's got infinite money, but only one adult who cares

0:46:36.960 --> 0:46:38.880
<v Speaker 2>about him, and that adult is not doing it in

0:46:38.920 --> 0:46:42.919
<v Speaker 2>the healthiest way, and he develops this edge. Maybe part

0:46:42.920 --> 0:46:45.520
<v Speaker 2>of it is just like surrounding yourself with death, kind

0:46:45.560 --> 0:46:47.239
<v Speaker 2>of like in the sense that maybe a goth would

0:46:47.320 --> 0:46:49.200
<v Speaker 2>later because there's been so much in your life, but

0:46:49.280 --> 0:46:52.520
<v Speaker 2>also some of its freaking out people is maybe the

0:46:52.520 --> 0:46:54.400
<v Speaker 2>only way you know to get attention.

0:46:54.640 --> 0:46:59.640
<v Speaker 3>Right, yeah, attention and keepeople at a distance and yeah.

0:46:58.760 --> 0:47:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, and would continue. He was such an

0:47:02.000 --> 0:47:05.279
<v Speaker 2>edgy kid that that thing, the cow carcasses thing, as

0:47:05.280 --> 0:47:07.040
<v Speaker 2>bizarre as it was to be over there hunting these

0:47:07.120 --> 0:47:09.440
<v Speaker 2>rats out of this pile of dead carcasses, was almost

0:47:09.440 --> 0:47:11.719
<v Speaker 2>normal for him. It was a pretty dark grim time.

0:47:11.800 --> 0:47:13.920
<v Speaker 2>He was miserable and he was angry. It only got

0:47:13.920 --> 0:47:17.640
<v Speaker 2>worse with the drugs. And we most of the sources

0:47:17.680 --> 0:47:19.840
<v Speaker 2>we have on earlier RFK life are self serving in

0:47:19.880 --> 0:47:22.880
<v Speaker 2>some nature, right, everybody's got an agenda. These are the Kennedys.

0:47:22.880 --> 0:47:26.480
<v Speaker 2>But I think Fanning has probably got it right. Yeah,

0:47:26.560 --> 0:47:29.759
<v Speaker 2>that that is that just feels like a person to me.

0:47:30.520 --> 0:47:33.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like an actual like an actual human being who's

0:47:33.239 --> 0:47:35.759
<v Speaker 3>dealt with all these things we've talked about, and like

0:47:35.800 --> 0:47:39.399
<v Speaker 3>the little the little stories of him growing up and

0:47:39.480 --> 0:47:42.280
<v Speaker 3>like you know, like being a little a little fucker

0:47:42.400 --> 0:47:48.040
<v Speaker 3>right right, asshole trying to cause trouble and then gets

0:47:48.120 --> 0:47:50.319
<v Speaker 3>darker and darker, and he's gonna his humor is gonna

0:47:50.320 --> 0:47:53.279
<v Speaker 3>get darker and darker. His like environment, he's going to

0:47:53.320 --> 0:47:56.879
<v Speaker 3>want to be Yeah that I don't know. Yeah, and

0:47:57.040 --> 0:47:58.279
<v Speaker 3>the brainworm.

0:47:58.000 --> 0:48:01.440
<v Speaker 2>And the brain worm the brain worm doesn't now out heroin?

0:48:01.719 --> 0:48:04.640
<v Speaker 2>What else? What else doesn't help Cody is heroin, which

0:48:04.680 --> 0:48:07.160
<v Speaker 2>makes it way into his drug rotation. And look, we

0:48:07.200 --> 0:48:10.080
<v Speaker 2>can talk about the potential benefits of psychedelics. I don't

0:48:10.080 --> 0:48:13.880
<v Speaker 2>know anybody who's like improve their life problems unless though,

0:48:14.040 --> 0:48:16.760
<v Speaker 2>unless those problems are just I am dying of horrible

0:48:16.800 --> 0:48:19.160
<v Speaker 2>pain with heroin. That's really the one thing that's.

0:48:19.000 --> 0:48:21.520
<v Speaker 3>Good, right. You know, there's like, oh, I took mushrooms

0:48:21.560 --> 0:48:24.799
<v Speaker 3>and like I saw something today or yesterday of like

0:48:24.840 --> 0:48:28.200
<v Speaker 3>eighty percent people take mushrooms like they can quit smoking easily. Yeah,

0:48:28.239 --> 0:48:31.919
<v Speaker 3>And it's literally just because they're like, uh stupid. Oh,

0:48:31.960 --> 0:48:33.520
<v Speaker 3>like I have the thought of like I shouldn't do that,

0:48:33.560 --> 0:48:34.000
<v Speaker 3>and they don't.

0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:35.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it has intense potential.

0:48:35.760 --> 0:48:38.200
<v Speaker 3>Sure, Yeah, Like oh I took mushrooms, I stopped smoking.

0:48:38.239 --> 0:48:40.200
<v Speaker 3>It's like, oh I took heroin, stop smoking because I died?

0:48:40.520 --> 0:48:43.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Or like heroin will help you in again one

0:48:43.640 --> 0:48:46.000
<v Speaker 2>very It's great as a pain killer, but that's only

0:48:46.080 --> 0:48:48.080
<v Speaker 2>useful in certain situations, and.

0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:50.399
<v Speaker 3>Bobby, heroin is something you saved to the end.

0:48:50.760 --> 0:48:53.600
<v Speaker 2>It's great as a pain killer, but it works very

0:48:53.680 --> 0:48:56.440
<v Speaker 2>well as an emotional pain killer, but not in a

0:48:56.480 --> 0:48:59.480
<v Speaker 2>way that helps the problem. Right, if you actually if

0:48:59.480 --> 0:49:01.879
<v Speaker 2>you have like you had your leg blown off by

0:49:01.880 --> 0:49:03.879
<v Speaker 2>a mind, Yes, a heroin might be the right thing

0:49:03.920 --> 0:49:06.120
<v Speaker 2>for you in the moment, right, that's probably real good

0:49:06.120 --> 0:49:08.680
<v Speaker 2>to get heroin in there. If you are mourning your

0:49:08.760 --> 0:49:11.760
<v Speaker 2>dad and your uncle and the collapse of your family

0:49:11.760 --> 0:49:13.080
<v Speaker 2>and all of the pressure you're under, the fact that

0:49:13.120 --> 0:49:15.360
<v Speaker 2>your mom doesn't love you. Heroin's probably not gonna.

0:49:15.120 --> 0:49:18.720
<v Speaker 3>Help in the spotlight like all the thing. Yeah.

0:49:19.120 --> 0:49:21.239
<v Speaker 2>Now that said, despite the fact that he is now

0:49:21.280 --> 0:49:23.879
<v Speaker 2>Heroin is in the mix, it's pot that's gonna get Bobby.

0:49:23.920 --> 0:49:26.239
<v Speaker 2>In his first real trouble, he was arrested for the

0:49:26.280 --> 0:49:31.920
<v Speaker 2>first time in Barnsdale, Massachusetts, for marijuana possession at age sixteen. Now,

0:49:32.040 --> 0:49:34.800
<v Speaker 2>one of the fun parts of the RFK Junior story

0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:38.000
<v Speaker 2>is that he always has this endearingly tense relationship with

0:49:38.040 --> 0:49:40.920
<v Speaker 2>the cops. I don't think he likes the police, at

0:49:41.000 --> 0:49:44.560
<v Speaker 2>least not as a young man. One story Oppenheimer tells

0:49:44.640 --> 0:49:47.440
<v Speaker 2>is a RFK Junior and the Terrors. They're sticking potatoes

0:49:47.440 --> 0:49:49.359
<v Speaker 2>into gas pipes one night and they get caught by

0:49:49.360 --> 0:49:51.759
<v Speaker 2>a cop and everyone runs away, and the only one

0:49:51.760 --> 0:49:54.400
<v Speaker 2>who can't escape is Bobby Shriver, who is his cousin.

0:49:54.800 --> 0:49:57.520
<v Speaker 2>Bobby Junior is kind of something in his favor. Even

0:49:57.560 --> 0:50:00.160
<v Speaker 2>though he's escaped, goes back to confront the cop to

0:50:00.480 --> 0:50:02.799
<v Speaker 2>try and rescue his cousin. You know which to say something,

0:50:03.760 --> 0:50:06.960
<v Speaker 2>And here's how Oppenheimer describes it. Seeing that his cousin

0:50:07.040 --> 0:50:09.640
<v Speaker 2>was in the clutches of a policeman. Bobby defiantly reappeared

0:50:09.640 --> 0:50:11.960
<v Speaker 2>from his hiding place and sauntered up to them. What

0:50:12.040 --> 0:50:14.279
<v Speaker 2>have you got in there, the policeman asked, noting that

0:50:14.320 --> 0:50:16.680
<v Speaker 2>Bobby had his hand inside his coat. I have a

0:50:16.719 --> 0:50:25.880
<v Speaker 2>hawk and he's trained to kill cops. Bobby answered, you're lying,

0:50:26.000 --> 0:50:29.080
<v Speaker 2>the policeman said, but Bobby kept advancing towards him until

0:50:29.080 --> 0:50:31.680
<v Speaker 2>they were only inches apart, whereupon he pulled the hawk

0:50:31.760 --> 0:50:34.200
<v Speaker 2>out and shoved the raptor's beak into the face of

0:50:34.239 --> 0:50:37.280
<v Speaker 2>the cop, who jumped back with a hand on his gun.

0:50:38.040 --> 0:50:40.759
<v Speaker 3>I have a hawk. It was trained to kill cops.

0:50:42.080 --> 0:50:43.200
<v Speaker 2>It's really cool.

0:50:43.480 --> 0:50:46.600
<v Speaker 3>You still got some bangers, like despite it all.

0:50:47.440 --> 0:50:51.520
<v Speaker 1>Part of the cop you're lying, you want to find out.

0:50:52.640 --> 0:50:55.000
<v Speaker 2>It's such an only someone who has grown up in

0:50:55.000 --> 0:50:57.240
<v Speaker 2>that degree of privilege who would like in that situation

0:50:57.280 --> 0:51:02.880
<v Speaker 2>with a cop shove a hawk and near and like

0:51:03.320 --> 0:51:06.280
<v Speaker 2>bold power were power to you, buddy, You're the only

0:51:06.360 --> 0:51:09.480
<v Speaker 2>guy who's ever been in that situation, and I'm glad

0:51:09.520 --> 0:51:09.920
<v Speaker 2>you did it.

0:51:10.719 --> 0:51:12.759
<v Speaker 3>You might you might not be the only guy who's

0:51:12.760 --> 0:51:15.680
<v Speaker 3>ever shouted like I got a hawk, Yeah, yeah, but

0:51:15.719 --> 0:51:16.560
<v Speaker 3>you're the one who did.

0:51:16.760 --> 0:51:18.799
<v Speaker 2>You're the only one who did and lived. Right, there's

0:51:18.840 --> 0:51:24.440
<v Speaker 2>a dead Hawker out there. Wow, what a tale.

0:51:24.800 --> 0:51:25.120
<v Speaker 1>Thank you.

0:51:25.440 --> 0:51:29.360
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, Bobby's arrest was big news. You know, the media

0:51:29.440 --> 0:51:31.719
<v Speaker 2>circus lights up around it, YadA YadA, YadA, and he

0:51:31.760 --> 0:51:34.960
<v Speaker 2>and his cousin, He's arrested with Bobby Shreiver for pot possession.

0:51:35.040 --> 0:51:38.240
<v Speaker 2>This is different from the Hawk thing. They go before

0:51:38.239 --> 0:51:41.000
<v Speaker 2>a juvenile court judge and they get a slap on

0:51:41.040 --> 0:51:42.960
<v Speaker 2>the wrist, right, you know, they get a punishment. It's

0:51:43.000 --> 0:51:47.080
<v Speaker 2>not all that serious. Really. The worst thing about it

0:51:47.120 --> 0:51:50.040
<v Speaker 2>is the media thing around it. And Bobby had actually

0:51:50.040 --> 0:51:53.319
<v Speaker 2>been expelled from Millbrook a few weeks earlier because of

0:51:53.360 --> 0:51:55.880
<v Speaker 2>his drug use, because the leadership at the school was

0:51:56.320 --> 0:51:58.320
<v Speaker 2>really mostly word that he was going to o D

0:51:58.680 --> 0:52:01.799
<v Speaker 2>on the property and they were like, you know, what's

0:52:01.800 --> 0:52:04.120
<v Speaker 2>not going to be good for this schools continuing to

0:52:04.120 --> 0:52:08.160
<v Speaker 2>have people is a fucking dead Kennedy like, get him out.

0:52:09.719 --> 0:52:13.160
<v Speaker 2>And after he gets arrested, they start to claim basically

0:52:13.239 --> 0:52:16.560
<v Speaker 2>he got kicked out of the school because of that. Right,

0:52:16.800 --> 0:52:19.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, they don't want to say we did it

0:52:19.200 --> 0:52:21.640
<v Speaker 2>for this reason, right, Nobody really wants to it's best

0:52:21.640 --> 0:52:23.319
<v Speaker 2>if it kind of comes down to being part of

0:52:23.320 --> 0:52:27.839
<v Speaker 2>the arrest. The family backlash against Bobby is intense and

0:52:27.960 --> 0:52:31.080
<v Speaker 2>utterly impotent. At the same time, Ethel told her son,

0:52:31.239 --> 0:52:34.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm throwing you out of the family, but no effort

0:52:34.440 --> 0:52:36.760
<v Speaker 2>was made to stop Bobby, who is at this point

0:52:36.960 --> 0:52:39.640
<v Speaker 2>sixteen years old, from taking six hundred dollars out of

0:52:39.640 --> 0:52:42.680
<v Speaker 2>his savings account, buying a used Ford Falcon and driving

0:52:42.680 --> 0:52:45.799
<v Speaker 2>across the country with two friends. He sells the car

0:52:45.840 --> 0:52:48.160
<v Speaker 2>when they get to Fresno, and he and one friend

0:52:48.160 --> 0:52:51.879
<v Speaker 2>continue on hopping trains and living with homeless people until

0:52:51.880 --> 0:52:55.640
<v Speaker 2>they wash up in Texas for months. Bobby Kennedy is

0:52:55.680 --> 0:52:59.240
<v Speaker 2>completely out of touch with any adult, but occasionally limb Billings,

0:52:59.560 --> 0:53:01.680
<v Speaker 2>and Bob would later recall this as one of the

0:53:01.680 --> 0:53:04.640
<v Speaker 2>happiest times of his youth quote, I was writing around

0:53:04.640 --> 0:53:06.920
<v Speaker 2>with bums. It was good I could be one of

0:53:06.960 --> 0:53:10.080
<v Speaker 2>them and not a Kennedy. And like, if you want

0:53:10.120 --> 0:53:12.680
<v Speaker 2>an idea of how toxic being a Kennedy is. His

0:53:12.800 --> 0:53:17.400
<v Speaker 2>fondest childhood memory is being homeless, Yeah, like willingly homeless.

0:53:18.160 --> 0:53:21.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah basically yeah, but like yeah, hiding.

0:53:21.280 --> 0:53:23.359
<v Speaker 2>Because we're all we're all equally filthy you know at

0:53:23.360 --> 0:53:25.360
<v Speaker 2>this point, you know, we're not bathing, we're not changing

0:53:25.400 --> 0:53:27.239
<v Speaker 2>our clothes, like we look the same that they do,

0:53:27.280 --> 0:53:29.080
<v Speaker 2>and they just kind of treat me as one of them.

0:53:29.440 --> 0:53:32.879
<v Speaker 2>Nobody knows who I am. Yeah, it says a lot.

0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:36.040
<v Speaker 3>I mean about again, didn't have a chance.

0:53:36.640 --> 0:53:38.719
<v Speaker 2>Never had a chance. He has a next scent when

0:53:38.719 --> 0:53:41.080
<v Speaker 2>he gets back from this road trip train hopping trip

0:53:41.120 --> 0:53:44.000
<v Speaker 2>to a less reputable boarding school in the woods that's like,

0:53:44.280 --> 0:53:46.520
<v Speaker 2>this is where you send the real problem kids. It's

0:53:46.560 --> 0:53:49.839
<v Speaker 2>near Boston. He continues to do drugs while he's there,

0:53:49.880 --> 0:53:53.200
<v Speaker 2>and he develops a notable reputation as not a racist.

0:53:53.239 --> 0:53:56.319
<v Speaker 2>He is very Oppenheimer quotes, and Oppenheimer quotes is like, wow,

0:53:56.360 --> 0:53:58.880
<v Speaker 2>a white guy that black people like, right, But he

0:53:58.920 --> 0:54:01.480
<v Speaker 2>does quote several black students at this school who were

0:54:01.480 --> 0:54:04.600
<v Speaker 2>like militant activists, like kind of black panther adjacent in

0:54:04.680 --> 0:54:07.200
<v Speaker 2>the day, and we're like, yeah, Bobby was actually really cool,

0:54:07.400 --> 0:54:09.560
<v Speaker 2>Like we liked hanging out with Bobby, Like he didn't

0:54:09.880 --> 0:54:11.279
<v Speaker 2>no issues with Bobby.

0:54:11.200 --> 0:54:12.600
<v Speaker 3>Was clearly not a racist person.

0:54:12.719 --> 0:54:15.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, clearly not racist. So we'll give him that here too.

0:54:15.880 --> 0:54:19.319
<v Speaker 2>Bobby Kennedy Junior graduated from this last boarding school in

0:54:19.400 --> 0:54:22.920
<v Speaker 2>June of nineteen seventy two. He was now an adult.

0:54:23.040 --> 0:54:24.840
<v Speaker 2>You will not be surprised to hear that his grades

0:54:24.880 --> 0:54:27.520
<v Speaker 2>were not impressive. His extra curriculars at this point are

0:54:27.560 --> 0:54:30.440
<v Speaker 2>basically just drugs and hanging out next to a cavern

0:54:30.520 --> 0:54:33.680
<v Speaker 2>of rotting meat with my hawk men. Of this mattered

0:54:33.760 --> 0:54:37.000
<v Speaker 2>to the Harvard Admissions board. RFK Junior was a legacy.

0:54:37.120 --> 0:54:39.000
<v Speaker 2>His family had money and a with the Kennedy you

0:54:39.080 --> 0:54:41.719
<v Speaker 2>never know, they could wind up congressman or president. So

0:54:41.800 --> 0:54:45.080
<v Speaker 2>you might as well get that Harvard stank on him, right,

0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:49.680
<v Speaker 2>And that's where Bobby's going to spend the mid seventies

0:54:49.840 --> 0:54:52.560
<v Speaker 2>studying and getting real into heroin. And we will talk

0:54:52.560 --> 0:54:57.200
<v Speaker 2>about that in part three, but for now, for this week, Cody,

0:54:57.360 --> 0:54:59.399
<v Speaker 2>we're done with RFK Junior. How are you feeling? Where

0:54:59.400 --> 0:55:01.239
<v Speaker 2>are we on? Are we on the boy at this point?

0:55:01.680 --> 0:55:01.799
<v Speaker 1>Uh?

0:55:01.960 --> 0:55:06.480
<v Speaker 3>You know, still some uh mixed in the sense that

0:55:06.640 --> 0:55:11.840
<v Speaker 3>like sorry, Bobby, sorry, I get it, Yeah, but you

0:55:11.960 --> 0:55:16.080
<v Speaker 3>gotta get it together. Also the rotten meat things, so

0:55:16.760 --> 0:55:22.239
<v Speaker 3>like yeah, yeah, I'm just like I'm I'm very curious

0:55:22.640 --> 0:55:29.200
<v Speaker 3>about where that thread leads because you don't stop there,

0:55:30.120 --> 0:55:33.399
<v Speaker 3>like that's not like probably the most fucked up thing

0:55:33.480 --> 0:55:37.879
<v Speaker 3>you're you're going to be doing in relation to dead

0:55:37.920 --> 0:55:39.200
<v Speaker 3>animal carcasses. I don't know.

0:55:40.120 --> 0:55:44.360
<v Speaker 2>I yeah, I'm going to think about the hawk a lot.

0:55:44.600 --> 0:55:45.040
<v Speaker 3>The hawk.

0:55:45.440 --> 0:55:48.960
<v Speaker 2>The hawk is a real like that's a fascinating.

0:55:48.520 --> 0:55:56.359
<v Speaker 3>It's fascinating talk about his train to kill cops.

0:55:56.600 --> 0:56:01.080
<v Speaker 2>That's such a good life. There's some really he definitely

0:56:01.239 --> 0:56:03.480
<v Speaker 2>had at one point. Maybe he's lost it now, but

0:56:03.520 --> 0:56:05.280
<v Speaker 2>he had at one point some of that Kennedy charisma.

0:56:05.320 --> 0:56:07.360
<v Speaker 2>Because that and the whole you've just killed.

0:56:07.080 --> 0:56:09.800
<v Speaker 3>It killed the Kennedy so good. It's a Kennedy miracle.

0:56:09.960 --> 0:56:11.320
<v Speaker 2>It's incredibly funny.

0:56:11.360 --> 0:56:12.880
<v Speaker 3>I've got a hawk and it kills cops.

0:56:13.160 --> 0:56:17.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah all yeah, yeah.

0:56:16.680 --> 0:56:18.080
<v Speaker 3>And but you know the other stuff.

0:56:18.360 --> 0:56:21.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, good luck to him.

0:56:21.480 --> 0:56:26.520
<v Speaker 1>It turns out it doesn't turn out great, Cody.

0:56:25.360 --> 0:56:28.000
<v Speaker 3>Right, well, I can still say good luck.

0:56:28.840 --> 0:56:34.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, good luck and good night, Cody Pluggables.

0:56:34.960 --> 0:56:40.200
<v Speaker 3>Hi sure hi hello, Hi. Yes. Check out some more

0:56:40.239 --> 0:56:42.480
<v Speaker 3>news on YouTube dot com. It's also a podcast if

0:56:42.480 --> 0:56:43.719
<v Speaker 3>you want to listen to it instead of look at

0:56:43.760 --> 0:56:47.040
<v Speaker 3>my face. And we've got even more news and other

0:56:47.080 --> 0:56:50.759
<v Speaker 3>podcasts that we also are doing video now, so check

0:56:50.800 --> 0:56:53.040
<v Speaker 3>that out on YouTube as well. But you can just

0:56:53.120 --> 0:56:54.759
<v Speaker 3>listen to it if you don't want to see my face.

0:56:55.760 --> 0:56:59.319
<v Speaker 3>Our Patreon dot com slash some more news and with

0:56:59.360 --> 0:57:01.480
<v Speaker 3>me as always is a mention of my band, The

0:57:01.520 --> 0:57:05.800
<v Speaker 3>Hot Shapes. You can check out on bandcamp and SoundCloud

0:57:06.000 --> 0:57:08.040
<v Speaker 3>for all your Hot Shapes needs.

0:57:08.440 --> 0:57:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Band Cloud and sound camp, sound camp it yeah, all right, everybody,

0:57:14.560 --> 0:57:17.960
<v Speaker 2>well go to hell Yeah, I love you.

0:57:21.800 --> 0:57:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

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