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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, it's Behind the Bastards, the only podcast

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Speaker 2: that just made you reconsider listening to this podcast, because

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Speaker 2: that's not an appropriate sound to make for a bunch

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Speaker 2: of people driving to work gardening with their kids in

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Speaker 2: the yard. You know, I apologize for that. We're not

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Speaker 2: going to go back. You can't edit audio, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's impossible. You know, if if that dream were real,

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Speaker 2: if you could, by god, we would change this podcast.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, if only there's there's so many things

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Speaker 3: would be different if we could edit audio and video.

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Speaker 1: What's exciting, Robert is that we may or may not

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Speaker 1: release video at some point at an undisclosed time, maybe

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Speaker 1: maybe not allegedly, who knows.

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Speaker 2: So we can edit that.

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Speaker 1: Finally, the listeners will get to see Cody and I

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Speaker 1: make faces. Maybe that were.

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Speaker 3: Maybe maybe include those were really just just some honest reactions.

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Speaker 2: I really enjoyed Cody's Sayce, that's what I was saying, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: or maybe we'll all get to hm. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to make any of those jokes. Let's move on, Cody,

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Speaker 2: how are we feeling about Bobby Kennedy? You know, as

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Speaker 2: we as we roll in depart two right now, he's

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Speaker 2: not a bad guy, you know.

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Speaker 3: My feeling is that he never had a chance.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, that is the Bastardrey here is primarily not

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Speaker 2: because again he is admitted to sexually basically admitted to

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Speaker 2: sexually assaulting people. So I'm not trying to whitewash rfkguni'or either,

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Speaker 2: but like, the primary bastard of the story is the

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Speaker 2: concept of the Kennesty dynasty and what it does.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not good, no good, never had a chance, really bad.

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Speaker 2: Really bad. Just the it's like if you if it's

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Speaker 2: like scientists in the lab, we're trying to cook up

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Speaker 2: the worst way to raise people. I just watched the

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Speaker 2: movie They Cloned Tyrone, which is I don't want to

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Speaker 2: like spoil it for you, but excellent excellent, really really

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Speaker 2: really really good movie, and the Kennedys kind of feel

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Speaker 2: like the reverse of that premise. If instead of, you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how to say, this is going to bed,

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Speaker 2: but it's like somebody, it's like a bunch of creepy

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Speaker 2: scientists we're trying to like design a ruling dynasty in

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Speaker 2: a lab and just completely fucked up at it, you know,

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Speaker 2: like the experiment did not work.

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Speaker 3: Or like a more ambitious like dog tooth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Let's just like raise our kids in the most like

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Speaker 3: fucked up way possible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think about like those those like those

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Speaker 2: fucking nerds who keep winding up in the media. Every

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Speaker 2: like three months, the news will decide, let's have a

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Speaker 2: little circus around these, like we have to have as

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Speaker 2: many kids as possible because we're exceptionally smart people, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: we've got to. We have a responsibility. And I hit

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Speaker 2: my kids, but for science reasons, you know.

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Speaker 3: And then you ask them for the science reasons and

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Speaker 3: they're like, I saw a tiger do it once.

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Speaker 2: There kids, Man, what else do you when they get sick?

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Speaker 2: Do you eat your young because I have seen a

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Speaker 2: cat do that. I have seen it eat its own

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Speaker 2: kittens because the kitten was ill. Are you doing that?

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Speaker 2: Are you going to eat your sick kids so that

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Speaker 2: predators don't smell them? You know, No, you're not doing

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Speaker 2: that because we don't take parenting advice from tigers.

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Speaker 3: Data points from tigers. H We're never gonna this is

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Speaker 3: I mean, I last episode, I kept wanting to like

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Speaker 3: bring them up because this is just that, or we

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Speaker 3: got to as many as possible. Our army is being

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Speaker 3: created by us, and there our children.

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Speaker 2: All I hope, and I again, this is the not

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Speaker 2: to whitewash RFK Junior. But I actually walked away, very

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Speaker 2: rare for me. But I walked away more sympathetic towards

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Speaker 2: him than I was, because it's just not again not

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Speaker 2: that he he doesn't have agency and the bad things

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Speaker 2: he's done. But my god, how could this story have ended?

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Speaker 3: Well? Well, yeah, I mean it's the you know, it's

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Speaker 3: how you create empathy for like villains in stories like well,

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Speaker 3: if you know their backstory, then you stand how they

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Speaker 3: got that way. It doesn't excuse their actions at that point,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, you're like, oh man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it honestly makes them scarier. And you know, I

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Speaker 2: talk about like the sympathetic young Hitler a lot, but

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Speaker 2: like another young Hitler story is when he was a

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Speaker 2: young man living independently as like a poor artist in Vienna.

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Speaker 2: He was kept afloat by his dad's old government pension,

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Speaker 2: which he gave up which rendered him completely destinut because

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Speaker 2: his sister had a kid and she needed the money.

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Speaker 2: More you can you can find in the Hitler story

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Speaker 2: a truly selfless act because he wasn't always destined to

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Speaker 2: be fucking Hitler, and you kind of have to accept

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Speaker 2: that with most of them.

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Speaker 3: No one's destined to be.

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Speaker 2: There's some five year olds out there torturing cats and stuff.

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Speaker 2: Maybe those people, right, Maybe, maybe it happens occasionally, but

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Speaker 2: that's not the story we're talking about today for sure. No,

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Speaker 2: he loves animals, Yeah, he loves them. He did maybe

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Speaker 2: kill that endangered turtle, but you know, someone just stopped him.

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Speaker 2: That was the adults. And at this point Sergeant Schreiver

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Speaker 2: shouldn't have let him steal it. Endangered turtle.

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Speaker 3: Probably shouldn't let him do that. Maybe that was maybe

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Speaker 3: that was the start, maybe the start of it all.

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Speaker 2: It's just like, well, you know, your uncle Jess died.

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Speaker 2: Sure abduct come.

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Speaker 3: On, here you go.

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Speaker 2: He's got plenty of them. Yeah, speaking of things Africa,

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Speaker 2: it's got a lot of probably podcasts cold opens, and

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Speaker 2: this podcast cold Open is done.

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Speaker 1: It's time to warm it up.

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Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't a great cody.

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Speaker 3: Band. If you send me that audio file, I will

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Speaker 3: turn that into a hit. Yeah, he's already a hit.

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Speaker 2: You can turn that into a hit. Along with that

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Speaker 2: clip we found of Rush Limbaugh saying, bust female vaginal walls. Cody,

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Speaker 2: that's a great one. It's in the Doctor Laura episodes.

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Speaker 2: You gonna love it, really good stuff, really good.

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Speaker 3: Actually you love it.

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Speaker 2: It's really horrible thing to hear.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: On the day his dad died, Bobby Junior was at

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Speaker 2: his boarding school, Georgetown Prep, which was run by Jesuits

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Speaker 2: and had a reputation for being one of those places

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Speaker 2: you sent rich boys to turn them into responsible members

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Speaker 2: of the power elite. Bobby was sleeping in his dorm

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Speaker 2: room when his dad was assassinated and was woken by

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Speaker 2: one of the one of the fathers or whatever. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if it's a father, if it's like more

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Speaker 2: of a monk type deal. But one of the Jesuits

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Speaker 2: guys comes down and is like, hey, a chartered car

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Speaker 2: has come for you in the night. I'm not gonna

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Speaker 2: explain why, but you probably you're a Kennedy at this

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Speaker 2: point you probably can have say a bad thing happened.

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Speaker 3: The pattern is establishing itself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So he is taken to the Kennedy compound at

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Speaker 2: Hickory Hill. The whole experience is obviously his dad got

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Speaker 2: shot to death. Right, that's traumatic. You know, there's no

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Speaker 2: way for that not to be traumatic. Bobby and his

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Speaker 2: siblings are ushered in to see their father before, like

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Speaker 2: while he's still technically alive. But like, and that's like

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Speaker 2: a hitty. I don't know, I don't know. I can't

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Speaker 2: say that's the wrong thing to do, yeah, or a right.

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Speaker 3: Thing, but like what condition, Like how how responsive is he?

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Speaker 3: Is That going to be more traumatic?

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Speaker 2: But still seeing him at some point where he's technically

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Speaker 2: alived is that, I don't know, everyone's different. What definitely

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Speaker 2: does not help is that this whole period, every moment

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Speaker 2: of this where they're outside the compound and outside of

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Speaker 2: that hospital room, they're surrounded by press right to an

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Speaker 2: extent that like even today is probably pretty rare, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: the sheer degree of attention on them is has to

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Speaker 2: make this even harder to handle, right than just having

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Speaker 2: your dad shot to death in public? They are subjected

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Speaker 2: to a massive public show of mourning at the funeral

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Speaker 2: of their dad. There's like a hobo march for RFK

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Speaker 2: because he was such like a so beloved by so

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Speaker 2: many like poor and struggling people, right like he really is.

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Speaker 2: And again you can. We can argue, like how fair

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Speaker 2: is it? There's some bad stuff he did, but like

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Speaker 2: that that love is real, you know, and that contributes

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Speaker 2: to how RFK Junior and his siblings are processing all

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Speaker 2: of this. Ethel Kennedy, Bobby's moms kind of collapses after

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Speaker 2: her husband gets murdered. And I have a lot of

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Speaker 2: criticisms of Ethyl, but like, again, you got eleven kids

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Speaker 2: and your husband gets shot to death. Sure, I mean,

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Speaker 2: like what do you who?

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Speaker 3: Like, what are you gonna do? Like it's so easy

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Speaker 3: to judge how people react to these sort of things, but.

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Speaker 2: What's the good reaction? It's not what she did, But

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Speaker 2: I can't say that like I would have done better

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Speaker 2: as Ethyl, you know. The big change, the biggest difference

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Speaker 2: between how the Kennedy family as a unit reacts to

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Speaker 2: JFK getting shot. I was gonna say JFK getting blown away?

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Speaker 2: But how many How any more Billy Joel references are

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Speaker 2: necessary in this episode? Probably one more, but maybe not

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Speaker 2: that one.

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Speaker 3: Only one more.

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Speaker 2: But there's a big difference between how the family reacts

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Speaker 2: to JFK getting killed and to RFK getting killed. Because

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Speaker 2: when JFK gets killed, RFK is there and he is

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Speaker 2: there to re mold the family around him and make

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Speaker 2: them feel like we still have a pretty bright future.

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Speaker 2: We're going to move forward. That's not there after he dies,

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Speaker 2: right Teddy Kennedy is kind of the family patriarch at

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Speaker 2: this point, and he tries this is not Teddy will

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Speaker 2: become a more capable and responsible person. He is not

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Speaker 2: at this point. So we will talk about and like,

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Speaker 2: you know, to a little bit of like like how

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Speaker 2: could he be? Like what what do you do here? Right?

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Speaker 2: Like you have had to the two patriarchs of the

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Speaker 2: family and like a two or three like not to

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Speaker 2: like but like within very shorter it's like a four

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Speaker 2: year period.

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Speaker 3: It's a very short period.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, assassinated right Like.

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Speaker 3: And at that point you're like, is are we all

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Speaker 3: going to get assassinated? Like what's like?

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Speaker 2: What is if I'm Teddy? What I'm was like? Should

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Speaker 2: we keep doing this?

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Speaker 3: Should like rich family plan?

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Speaker 2: What is this? Seems like this might have been a

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Speaker 2: really bad plan?

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Speaker 3: What are you doing? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: One of the Kennedy cousins, who's you know in the

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Speaker 2: compound of the family later recalled to Horowitson Callier for

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Speaker 2: there it was so different from Jack's death, there had

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Speaker 2: been a coming together. Uncle Bobby had seen to that

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Speaker 2: in a strange way. We'd felt even more like Kennedy's

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Speaker 2: than ever, proud of what Jack had been, determined that

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Speaker 2: our time would come again. But once Uncle Bobby died,

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Speaker 2: there was just this sense of splitting apart. RFK Junior

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Speaker 2: was only an occasional presence at the Kennedy compound in

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Speaker 2: Hickory Hill at that point. Ethel kind one of the

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Speaker 2: ways she reacts to RFK getting killed is she is

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Speaker 2: kind of permanently angry at her son's like forever and

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Speaker 2: in a way that's really hard to forgive, and that

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Speaker 2: must have been devastating to them. The youngest children and

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Speaker 2: girls were, according to Colerin Horowitz, immune to her temper.

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Speaker 2: She's not shitty to her girls, she's not shitty to

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Speaker 2: the little kids, but she is really bad to Joe,

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Speaker 2: Bobby Junior, and David. Right quote, she told Joe he

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Speaker 2: must be the man of the house now and allowed

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Speaker 2: him to sit in his dead father's chair at the

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Speaker 2: dinner table. But when he hit his younger sister Carrie

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Speaker 2: for making noise, she gave him the infantile punishment of

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Speaker 2: having to walk up and down the stairs one hundred

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Speaker 2: times times. Later, Joe went into the yard and in

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Speaker 2: a moment of tenderness, took the hands of his younger

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Speaker 2: brothers and sisters and began to sing the Battle Hymn

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Speaker 2: of the Republic, their father's favorite song. Meanwhile, Ethel kept

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Speaker 2: saying to Bobby Junior and David get out of here,

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Speaker 2: as if the house itself, with all the pictures of

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Speaker 2: family triumphs, where a sanctuary. They defiled with their presence,

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Speaker 2: and you've got here is these kids are reacting to

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Speaker 2: their uncle and dad getting shot. These boys by acting out. Joe,

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Speaker 2: who's the oldest, is like being kind of a bully.

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Speaker 2: He hits his younger siblings a lot. You know, he

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Speaker 2: like tackles let me fire. But like that's not abnormal,

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Speaker 2: it's not great. It's certain something you got. You want

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Speaker 2: to deal with that behavior, you don't want to ignore it.

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Speaker 2: But like you're not a bad person as a twelve

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Speaker 2: year old boy something like that, because like that is

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Speaker 2: how you react.

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Speaker 3: That's an indicator that he's dealing with something and going

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Speaker 3: through it. Not that like he needs to be like

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Speaker 3: the target of your ire and your Yeah, like everything

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Speaker 3: that your feeling shouldn't be targeted at the at these kids.

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Speaker 2: And Ethel's only response is your disgrace the family, Like,

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Speaker 2: how fucking dare you get the hell out of here?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: That is her go to parenting move for the boys.

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Speaker 2: Bobby Junior also acts out constantly and his particular style

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Speaker 2: he's less violent, but he seems to think the best

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Speaker 2: way for him to get attention. And nobody's really got

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Speaker 2: time to give attention to Bobby Junior, right, he has

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Speaker 2: like servants and stuff. He gets like technically attention, but

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Speaker 2: not from the people he needs it from, right, And

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Speaker 2: he tries to get it by playing pranks.

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Speaker 3: And he this is say yeah, it sounds like he

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Speaker 3: would do yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: He's a pranker, and he does one of these. He

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Speaker 2: plays a prank at his dad's memorial. So there's a

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Speaker 2: neighbor and friend of the family, Philip Kirby, who's like

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Speaker 2: this rich kid who lives nearby. He's part of the

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Speaker 2: memorial service for RFK and he recalls like before it starts,

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Speaker 2: the priest gives him a bell to ring during the liturgy,

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Speaker 2: and the priest says like, I'll touch you in the

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Speaker 2: shoulder when it's time for you to ring it right

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Speaker 2: so you don't time it wrong. And Bobby starts tapping

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Speaker 2: him randomly during the services a bit, so he rings

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Speaker 2: the bell when there's not supposed to be any kind

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Speaker 2: of music or noise. And like Kirby, this is like

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Speaker 2: the biggest funeral and national history at least since JFK.

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Speaker 2: He is like weeping in tears because he has fucked

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Speaker 2: this up. And he looks back and he sees RFK

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Speaker 2: Junior holding in laughter because it's a very little kid

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Speaker 2: thing to do. It is also on the mean side.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, I mean if you're if you're a kid,

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Speaker 3: you're not going to really be able to Christ.

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Speaker 2: You're not a moral actor in the same way.

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Speaker 3: Right right? But man, that yuy sorry Phillips, Oh man.

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Speaker 2: The pranks continued. A week after his dad's funeral, David Kennedy,

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Speaker 2: the younger of the Kennedy of this generation Kennedy brothers,

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Speaker 2: has a birthday. This is obviously a fragile time for everybody,

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Speaker 2: the first birthday for one of Rfk's sons. After his death,

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Speaker 2: Bobby Junior decides the right thing to do is to

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Speaker 2: poison everybody, and I'm gonna I'm gonna read a quote

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Speaker 2: from Bihacker for Jerry opp and iimer here Bobby had

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Speaker 2: spiked everyone's milk with a laxative. Infuriated, his mother demanded,

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Speaker 2: just leave home, get out of my life.

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Speaker 1: Choice, and I mean, aren't going well.

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Speaker 2: It's very bad behavior to poison your family. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's certainly a punishment. That's now we can always tell

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Speaker 2: what kind of parents do get away with poisoning the family.

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Speaker 2: But get out of my life. What a devastating thing

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Speaker 2: to say to your child, after your after his data set.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, at that point, it's like, I mean, just

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Speaker 3: let me get into politics and wait a few years

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Speaker 3: and I will, like.

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Speaker 2: Fucking he is. These boys are all abandonment issues. The

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Speaker 2: guy like that is that is the Kennedy boys of

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Speaker 2: this generation. Uh. Soon after, possibly to make up for

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Speaker 2: the ruined party, ethel flies the kids with Ted Kennedy

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Speaker 2: because again he's he's around a lot, he's kind of

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Speaker 2: in the sometimes trying to be a father. He's also

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Speaker 2: very young. He's a party boy. He is not mature

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Speaker 2: enough to be responsible, and like, really, it's kind of

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Speaker 2: unreasonable to expect a man of that is to suddenly

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Speaker 2: take on the duties of being the head of this

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Speaker 2: family of kids who aren't yours, who belong to your

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Speaker 2: murdered brother. That's a lot to ask of Ted. But

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Speaker 2: he doesn't do a great job at it, right, He

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Speaker 2: does seem to be trying very hard. Ethel takes them

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Speaker 2: all on this chartered boat ride. Right, And during this

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Speaker 2: chartered boat trip, Ethel's moods swung wildly and RFK Junior is,

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Speaker 2: as usual, pushing boundaries and fucking around with his siblings.

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Speaker 2: Ethel grew furious at him and David and dragged them

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Speaker 2: both below decks and beats them with a hair brush.

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Speaker 2: This is the first time something like this has happened.

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Speaker 2: I don't think she had been physically violent with them before.

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Speaker 2: It is a really like searing moment for OURFK Junior

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Speaker 2: and for David. Yeah, they remember it course. Yeah. And again,

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Speaker 2: you know, on Ethyl's side of things, it's not good

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Speaker 2: to do this. I might say that, like, yeah, you

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Speaker 2: can't expect any kind of perfectly rational behavior from a

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Speaker 2: woman in the situation, but this has.

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Speaker 3: A horrible and beyond the pills.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the beating. I think we've crossed the line

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Speaker 2: from just saying.

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Speaker 3: So it wasn't it was the first time? Was it

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Speaker 3: the last time? Like? Did they become a pattern after that?

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's just like, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I don't get the impression that she is a present

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Speaker 2: enough parent for there who have been much many patterns

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Speaker 2: at all, other than she repeatedly tells them to leave,

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Speaker 2: get out of here. You're not welcome at home. That

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Speaker 2: is the big pattern, is her saying, get out of here.

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Speaker 2: You are no longer welcome at the family compound. You're

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Speaker 2: no longer welome. Like Bobby's gonna spend time like hiding out,

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Speaker 2: like camping and hiding and like outbuildings and stuff because

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Speaker 2: he's not supposed to be there. He spends a lot

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Speaker 2: of his childhood just like living with other families who

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Speaker 2: are kind of adjacent to the Kennedys. Yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 2: messed up, right.

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Speaker 3: Not gonna be good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. Ethel only expresses more and more frustration with

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Speaker 2: her kids. After this, She exiles Bobby Junior back to

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Speaker 2: a private school, this time a new one, a place

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Speaker 2: called Millbrook. And Millbrook is you're routched to rest of development,

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Speaker 2: right obviously you did? You know how? Like fucking Buster

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Speaker 2: is he went to that school Milford. Milford is a

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Speaker 2: parody of Millbrook, right, it could because this is the

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Speaker 2: place where like, not just the sons of the rich

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Speaker 2: and famous are sent, but it's the sons that are

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Speaker 2: having problems, right, You send them there to get disciplined

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Speaker 2: and to get like straightened out.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: One teacher described it as quote a place where they're

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Speaker 2: rich and famous would tuck their children away.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: If you're wondering what that was a reference to, it's

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Speaker 2: a reference to Millbrook. RFK Junior is just one of

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Speaker 2: what would become a long line of rich boys with

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Speaker 2: behavioral problems whose parents didn't want to deal with them

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Speaker 2: full time. And Millbrook is also located very near the

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Speaker 2: mansion where Timothy Leary kept all of his acid and

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Speaker 2: his friends on acid, and drugs are not hard to

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Speaker 2: come by for Millbrook kids. And it's this unique situation

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Speaker 2: of people don't really know about drugs. There's like a

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00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,280
Speaker 2: vague understanding like maybe of marijuana, but even then that's

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Speaker 2: not very visible, and like LSD is so fucking new,

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Speaker 2: and so adults don't really know. They just noticed like, wow,

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Speaker 2: these kids are behaving really weird, and they don't really

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Speaker 2: notice that, Like, yeah, Bobby Kennedy is just always fucking

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Speaker 2: on drugs. Now, Like from this point forward, he is

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Speaker 2: always on drugs, you know. And it's funny because it

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Speaker 2: seems like at this point mostly it's pot Oppenheimer, because

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Speaker 2: he's going to wind up addicted to heroin. Oppenheimer treats

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Speaker 2: pot like heroin. And his biography of Bobby where he's

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Speaker 2: like and he was getting every day, And I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's fifteen, you know, Like I know a lot like

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Speaker 2: half of the people I know. I'm not saying you

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Speaker 2: should You shouldn't do drugs until you're older. Kids, Wait

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Speaker 2: a little, my opinion.

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Speaker 3: You've brain developed and stuff and all that.

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Speaker 2: How to say, ninety plus percent of people who smoke

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Speaker 2: pot when they're sixteen, fifteen, seventeen, Like it's fine, you know, yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 2: you'll be okay, people generally are. Bobby is not, though

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Speaker 2: I will say that, But I don't know that I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna blame the drugs. I think the drugs are more

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Speaker 2: a symptom of this kid's disastrous early life. Yeah, being

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Speaker 2: a Kennedy and having just lost his dad. None of

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00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,639
Speaker 2: the adults at Millbrook seem to have known how to

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Speaker 2: handle him, Like, how do we discipline this kid. We're

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00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,359
Speaker 2: kind of now marketing a lot on the fact that

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Speaker 2: a Kennedy goes here. It's kind of a selling point

395
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 2: to other rich families. So like there's no He kind

396
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 2: of comes and goes as he pleases, and he spends

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Speaker 2: most of his free time getting fucked up or hunting

398
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,600
Speaker 2: small animals with his hawk. Morgan le Fay, his primary

399
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 2: hobby is taking acid and going hawking, like hunting with

400
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:22,760
Speaker 2: his hawk.

401
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,200
Speaker 3: So he got to bring his hawk.

402
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Speaker 2: He does get to bring his hawk. His hawk is

403
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Speaker 2: with him all the time. It is always in the room.

404
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,679
Speaker 2: People who live with him is like roommates at these

405
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 2: boarding schools say that there are just birds shitting everywhere

406
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,159
Speaker 2: all the time. Like if you are living with Bobby Kennedy,

407
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 2: there's bird shit everywhere constantly because he is never far

408
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 2: from his fucking bird. It's a weird guy. He loves

409
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:47,040
Speaker 2: his a weird guy. During this period of time, there

410
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 2: is one adult who is a consistent presence in RFK

411
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Speaker 2: Junior's life, and it's a guy named Limb Billings. And uh,

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Speaker 2: we will talk about old Limb, but first Cody, speaking

413
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 2: of Billings. Yeah, get your billings from the companies that

414
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 2: support our podcast by sending them your money.

415
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm getting my money out right now.

416
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, Limb those billings on over to them, you know,

417
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 2: lim them out. Limit to win it. Anyway, We're done.

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Speaker 2: Who's at.

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Speaker 3: Back?

420
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Speaker 2: So? Limb Billings was a former New York ad executive

421
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 2: who had been very deep friends. He's like JFK's oldest

422
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,679
Speaker 2: friend and like so close that Joe Kennedy, who is

423
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 2: not like the most emotional man in the world, considers

424
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,199
Speaker 2: Limb basically part of the family. Right, he has a

425
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 2: house or he has a room at the Kennedy compound. Right,

426
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 2: He's that close with the family. And he is also gay.

427
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,400
Speaker 2: He is in love with JFK. There are a lot

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Speaker 2: of rumors that swirl around whether or not they had

429
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Speaker 2: any kind of physical relationship. I don't actually think there's

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Speaker 2: any evidence of it. It seems like the kind of

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Speaker 2: thing that was not uncommon with a lot of particularly

432
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Speaker 2: very prominent gay in back then. We're like, I am

433
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Speaker 2: in love with this person, and my love take the

434
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,880
Speaker 2: form since there's no kind of relationship that's possible, maybe,

435
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 2: you know, obviously they're probably not actually interested in reciprocating

436
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,679
Speaker 2: it that way, but I become basically like their closest confidant.

437
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,400
Speaker 2: I'm always watching out for them. I'm the guy who is.

438
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, constant companion, constant buddy, who Yeah.

439
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. There's a movie I like to talk about a lot,

440
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 2: if Dot Dot Dot, which is the first Malcolm McDowell movie,

441
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 2: and the it's.

442
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 3: A movie that's not the Imaginary Friends movie from the

443
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 3: twisted mind of John Krasinski. New that's called If as well.

444
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 2: That's also called IF much worse movie. This If is

445
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:40,120
Speaker 2: an absolutely like incredible piece of cinema that everyone should watch.

446
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 2: It is about a British boarding school. It's one of

447
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 2: my favorite films. And McDowell has said later that, like, yeah,

448
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 2: we didn't of the director. I didn't know at the

449
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 2: time that he was gay, but now I can see

450
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: that he was. And his way of like kind of

451
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 2: making love to me was the way that he shot

452
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,159
Speaker 2: me right when he was filming me. You know, I

453
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 2: think about that one. I think of Limb.

454
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 3: Billings right, Yeah, yeah, well yeah, I just have that

455
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,239
Speaker 3: it's like an intense like attraction admiration, but yeah, like

456
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:06,919
Speaker 3: you can't express it in the way you want to,

457
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,360
Speaker 3: so you find, yeah, like socially acceptable ways to.

458
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 2: Do exactly exactly, and that's kind of Lim. And Lim

459
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 2: is obviously absolutely shattered by the jfk assassination. Right like

460
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 2: this destroys him as a person. He starts drinking heavily.

461
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,360
Speaker 2: He's never a really functional adult right after this point. Now,

462
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 2: depending on who you read, opinions on limb very Jerry Oppenheimer,

463
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 2: who published the twenty fifteen biography of RFK Junior, is

464
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 2: incredibly homophobic, and he I kept waiting for there to

465
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 2: be like some evidence that Lim had abused RFK Junior

466
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 2: had done something really bad, but like he really just

467
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 2: seems to want us to be shocked by the fact

468
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,360
Speaker 2: that Lim was gay and see that as inherently sinister.

469
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 2: He also alleges that Lim enabled Bobby's drug use. From

470
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 2: what I have read in other sources, I kind of

471
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 2: think it was the opposite. Lim is never fully functional

472
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: after JFK dies. He becomes an alcoholic and when RFK

473
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 2: Junior starts doing drugs, Lim, as the adult in this situation,

474
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: doesn't stop him, and he should have, does not attempt

475
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 2: to limit his access to drugs at all, but he

476
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 2: starts doing them, and I don't think he's pushing RFK Junior.

477
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 2: I think he is just like, yeah, sure, why the

478
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 2: fuck not? Right right now? The fact that Lim is

479
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 2: gay and in love with Jack with JFK shouldn't be

480
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 2: totally dismissed though, not because he abused Bobby, but because

481
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 2: I think he may have put added pressure on him

482
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 2: to follow his uncle Jack. There's an allegation that I

483
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 2: think probably does have legs that he is kind of

484
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 2: trying to groom Bobby into being like JFK and kind

485
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 2: of for a sweet reason of he like he wants

486
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: his dead best friend back, you know, like it.

487
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 3: It's a very right right, it's got to exist again.

488
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's a very sad story, but not one

489
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 2: that I think. I don't see Lim as like a

490
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 2: villain now. Obviously he's not the best influence to be

491
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: the one adult in Bobby's life.

492
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, this seems unhealthy.

493
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but it's unhealthy because everyone is just caught

494
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 2: in this fucking poison matrix that is the Kennedy family legacy.

495
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 2: Right in the book after Camelot, Bobby told author Jay

496
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,239
Speaker 2: Randy Tara Borelli quote In many ways, Lim was a

497
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 2: father to me, and he was the best friend I

498
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: will ever have. I have also read interviews with RFK

499
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 2: Junior's brothers, I think with David, where David was like, yeah,

500
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 2: it's kind of jealous of Bobby because like, none of

501
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: us had any male authority figure, any adults, male adults

502
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 2: interested in us after Dad died. Right, he got Lim

503
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: and he was the only one right, as opposed to

504
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: what Oppendheimer said of him being the sinister for us

505
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 2: that like, well, at least RFK Jr.

506
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 3: Had somebody had some right, whether it's a role model

507
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 3: or just some sort of guardian, some sort of gud

508
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 3: and some sort of Yeah.

509
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: And as a spoiler, David's story is going to end

510
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: a lotch faster and a lot worse than RFK Junior stuff.

511
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 2: So maybe Lim having something kept him from spending out

512
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: as much.

513
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 3: I don't know.

514
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 2: That said, it is beyond arguing that Lim is not

515
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 2: what most people would call a responsible guardian. That said,

516
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: any kind of normal childhood for Bobby was completely off

517
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 2: the table at this point. Lim after RFK dies, he's

518
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: on safari when JFK dies, and after RFK gets killed,

519
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 2: Lim takes him on us. Sorry, your dad died Safari.

520
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 3: Maybe we'll get you another turtle.

521
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 2: Who knows, Yeah, get you another turtle. I've spent my

522
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 2: time expressing issues with Oppenheimer's biography, but I do think

523
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 2: his description of this trip, this second death Safari, can

524
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 2: FaZe how damned weird it was. With professional thirty five

525
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 2: millimeter cameras, Bobby and Billings documented their African adventure, which

526
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 2: also included a rafting trip in Egypt's Valley of the Kings,

527
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 2: and oddly, a VIP visit to a nightclub to watch

528
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 2: the gyrations of a bevy of belly dancers hosted by

529
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 2: members of the Egyptian Supreme Court, an evening of salacious

530
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 2: interest more to the hormonal adolescent than to his gay,

531
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: middle aged saparone. The Safari photos became quite lucrative because,

532
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,160
Speaker 2: at that time, in the wake of the latest Kennedy tragedy,

533
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 2: anything a Camelot air did became front page media. Father

534
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 2: aware of the demand building's broker to deal with Life

535
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 2: magazine for an interview about their adventure and for the photos.

536
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 2: The questionable story was put out that young Bobby wanted

537
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 2: to use the money to build a memorial to his father,

538
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: in the Serengeti National Park and uh yeah, the pictures

539
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 2: sell for a lot of money. He gets to watch

540
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 2: a what sounds like almost a strip tease put on

541
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: by the Egyptian Supreme Court.

542
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 3: A burlesque sort of situation, just.

543
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: A baffling childhood Yeah. Yeah, if you've met members of

544
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 2: the Egyptian Supreme Court, you have an odd child.

545
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's just like this weird like Western rosie sort

546
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 3: of like cript celebration, yeah, ring like thing. Yeah. Yeah.

547
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 2: It is very Game of Thrones in a lot of ways.

548
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah.

549
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 2: So when they get back home from this very strange Safari,

550
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 2: Bobby continues doing shitloads of drugs and most consequentially introducing

551
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 2: his brothers to drugs, and he does not limit himself

552
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 2: to just dosing them. One of the people who sold

553
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: acid to Bobby was a neighbor kid, John Kelly, who

554
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 2: recalled that Bobby fed doses of acid to his parakeet.

555
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 2: He soon expanded to other drugs, like mescaline, which he

556
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 2: pushed his younger brother David to try. David was scared.

557
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 2: David did not want to experiment with drugs, with psychedelics,

558
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: you know, it certainly wasn't ready as soon as Bobby was.

559
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: But Bobby basically like bullies him kind of until he

560
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 2: takes a shitload of mescaline. And David is a young

561
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 2: boy too young to be doing shitloads of mescaline who

562
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: has lost his dad and is traumatized, and that can

563
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 2: make a trip nocked. He has a bad time of it, right,

564
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 2: and Kelly recalls that Bobby's instinct seems to be to

565
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 2: increase his younger to fuck with his younger brother, right

566
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 2: when so David hallucinates that Bobby's laying like or standing

567
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 2: up against like a bush or something, and there's leaves

568
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: pressing against him, and David hallucinates that the leaves are sharp,

569
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 2: and he's like, Bobby, get away, they'll cut you. And

570
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: Bobby laughs and he plunges into the leaves and then

571
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: pretends he's been impaled and fakes his own yes, and

572
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: this prompts David to cry, you're dying just like daddy.

573
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 3: Oh god, oh boy, Oh no, that's so bad.

574
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 2: Oh Bobby, that's.

575
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 3: Like so bad, like being on that drug. And no,

576
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 3: he thought that was really happening.

577
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 2: And guess guess which Kennedy is gonna wind up dying

578
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: up a drug overdose.

579
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 3: That's such a fucked up d D David.

580
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, real bad stuff, very bad behavior. Don't do that,

581
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 2: like lean into.

582
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 3: To pretend that you are especially not just like to

583
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 3: pretend that, Oh my god, it's so fucked up.

584
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the weird things. You know how America

585
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: has kind of processed nine to eleven eventually by making

586
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: a shipload of nine to eleven jokes. Bobby and his

587
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 2: generation of Kennedy's processed the assassinations by making a lot

588
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 2: of Dead Kennedy jokes, like more, even more than the

589
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: band The Dead Kennedy's death, if actually ever made jokes,

590
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 2: is just the name of the band anyway. The closest

591
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 2: the Kennedy's had to an heir apparent was Ted Kennedy,

592
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 2: who is a senator, who becomes a senator and is

593
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 2: you know somebody do people do still think? You know,

594
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 2: in the wake of rfk's death, Hey, he could be

595
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: the president. You know, he's pretty good looking, smart, he's

596
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: obviously starting to have success in politics. But within a

597
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: year of rfk's demise, Ted is involved in the infamous

598
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 2: chap Equitic incident, which fucking Republicans would not stop talking about,

599
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 2: and it is a pretty bad situation. He is probably drunk,

600
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: he drives off of a bridge, he abandons his the

601
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: crash afterwards, and he abandons his twenty eight year old passenger,

602
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: Mary Joe Kopekney, who drowns. Right, you know, the best

603
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 2: case scenario is that Ted is so drunk that he's

604
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 2: not really aware of what he's doing. I guess some

605
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: people will argue it was just an accident. But he

606
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: leaves afterwards and he goes to sleep, and it's like,

607
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: is bad he does not he does a bad thing.

608
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 3: He does a bad thing.

609
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: I will say, Yeah, Now this is again like I

610
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: don't know how you want to. We're not going to

611
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 2: dissect fucking chap equitdic God. You can find so much

612
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: of that if you really want to. What matters to

613
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 2: us today is that it more or less punctures heads

614
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: shot at the presidency, right, That is not really going

615
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 2: to be in the concresce.

616
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I kind of took them out of that.

617
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 2: Now you could argue, and I think this is the

618
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: strongest argument that he is probably the best politician in

619
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: terms of technical skill, of any of his generation. Of

620
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 2: the Kennedy's right, some of this is just because he's

621
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 2: alive long enough to really have a full political career.

622
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: But he's a very influential man in Congress. He winds

623
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: up being kind of like, arguably most influential Democrat in

624
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: Congress for a significant period of time. And that's you know,

625
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: a lot for a family for most people. But that

626
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: is a far cry from the vision Joe Kennedy had

627
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 2: for his family, and even further from the rosy image

628
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: of Camelot perpetuated in the public memory. Talk about a

629
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 2: Kennedy curse had been a thing for about as long

630
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: as anyone in the family could remember, but once RFK died,

631
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: it went from something to and kind of a half

632
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 2: joke sort of deal to something the upcoming generation felt

633
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: deep within their bones as destiny. Even Joe Kennedy, the

634
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: man whose ambition had started this all, seemed to feel

635
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: a sense of woe at what he now saw coming

636
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: for his grandchildren. Chris Lawfer, JFK's nephew, later claimed, sometimes

637
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: Grandpa would look at us as if he wanted to

638
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 2: say something. His mouth would move sort of convulsively, as

639
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: if some words were trying to get out. Then this

640
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 2: cloudy look would come over his eyes and he'd slouched

641
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 2: down into his wheelchair and the attendant would wheel him

642
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: off and that in the that biography, Maybe it was

643
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 2: just he you know, he was stroking out, he couldn't come.

644
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 2: Maybe it's that he's maybe he regretted, like, oh, I

645
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: may my entire family to calamity.

646
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe sorry for the pressure I yeah created for you, all.

647
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 2: Of this, all of these terrible, terrible things. And he does,

648
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 2: he lives.

649
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 3: You know.

650
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: It's one of those things like I don't know if

651
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 2: Joe Kennedy made a deal with a devil or some

652
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 2: sort of like House of Usher, asked cosmic evil right

653
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 2: to have his success and then have it all ripped

654
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: away when his children die at the last moment of

655
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: his life. But that's kind of what happens, right. He

656
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 2: lives long enough to see Chap equittic and then he

657
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: fucking drops right after that.

658
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 3: You know. Yeah, he made some sort of deal and

659
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 3: it led to the curse.

660
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 2: It led to the curse.

661
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 3: Part of it was you gotta kind of you gotta watch,

662
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 3: you gotta watch some of it. Yeah, you're done.

663
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: Yeah he made it. And look he made some good calls,

664
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 2: you know, making Mark Hamill the family Lawyer, great move

665
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: House of Usher, good show. Watch it. Oh it's oh

666
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: my god, it's an incredible Mark Campbell performance. Yeah, really

667
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 2: really good show. Really good show. Everyone else is playing

668
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: essentially like a Poe character, and Mark Hamill is playing

669
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 2: like a Lovecraft protagonist. It's quite good. It's quite interesting,

670
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: all right. Yeah, I enjoyed it a lot. So I

671
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: will say, you know, you've got that one picture from

672
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 2: the Collier in Horowitz book, where Grandpa maybe started to

673
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: regret some of his decisions. In his biography of RFK Junior,

674
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 2: Oppenheimer also talks to a significant number of people who

675
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 2: are around the family and in the family at this point.

676
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 2: Pet's a darker picture of what Joe mostly tried to

677
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: pass on to his grandchildren, his twin family mantras where

678
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 2: Kennedy's don't cry and Kennedy's don't complain, which is whatever

679
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 2: else not going to help you process everything that's happened

680
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 2: to them.

681
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 3: If Kennedys do die, yeah, you might want those other

682
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 3: two things.

683
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 2: Actually they might need to cry. Maybe some complaints are warranted. Yeah,

684
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 2: but he does live long enough to see his blessings

685
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: turn into curses. His three most prominent sons dead because

686
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 2: Joe died a while ago, his remaining son disgraced, and

687
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: the vast entitled brood that he had helped create turn

688
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 2: into a dynasty hurdling inefftably towards doom when he finally

689
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: passed on November eighteenth, nineteen sixty nine. Bobby by this

690
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 2: point seemed to show less inclination to follow his dad

691
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: into politics and decidedly more of a bent to being

692
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 2: a we might call like a I got mild gangster,

693
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: you know, like a like a kind of adorable child gangster,

694
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 2: because he has in this period formed a street gang

695
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 2: focused or into the street game, made up entirely of

696
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 2: Kennedy's and their friends, who are also very rich kids

697
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 2: from this incredibly rich neighborhood with a family compound is located.

698
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 2: They call themselves the Hannas port Terrors, the HPTs as

699
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 2: we'll call them.

700
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 3: The assumptions, the assumptions.

701
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 2: So Joe Bobby Kennedy's got a street gang, and initially

702
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: it's just his older brother Joe who's seventeen, you know,

703
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 2: he's fifteen, and his brother David who's fourteen, but a

704
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 2: bunch of cousins and neighbors join in and they'll they'll

705
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,720
Speaker 2: all dress in black and they'll paint their faces with grease.

706
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 2: And first off, you know what, kudos guys to painting,

707
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: to being rich white kids who paint your faces with

708
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 2: grease and aren't doing blackface. You know, they were just

709
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: trying to hide in the night.

710
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's like, well, you know you're who we dodged.

711
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 2: Kennedy Families isn't great at dodging bullets, but they did

712
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: dodge that one.

713
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank goodness for that. Difference in motivation to Greece.

714
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 2: God, their motivation is they're doing pettybags. I imagine were

715
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: also they might have been, might have been, might have been.

716
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 3: A little treat for them.

717
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 2: You know, I can't prove they weren't exactly, I can't.

718
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: I can't prove a little justin Trudeau energy wasn't present

719
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: there some of them. Sure sco should drop of that

720
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: a dollip Sistically, One former member of the hyenasport Terrors

721
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 2: later claimed to the author of the book After Camelot quote,

722
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 2: we'd shoot off firecrackers to flate people's tires, stick potatoes,

723
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 2: and the exhaust pipes of cars, turnover trash cans mess

724
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,879
Speaker 2: around with girls, all sorts of mischief. After we did

725
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 2: our bit, Ethel would get called I know, I don't

726
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 2: know what mess around with girls want in this context.

727
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 3: In the context of like vandalism.

728
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 2: They could be making out with them, they could be

729
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: stealing their underwear, there could be There's a lot of

730
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 2: mess around, with a lot of room for that to

731
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: be ugly.

732
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 3: It's an odd item to include on that list. Yeah,

733
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 3: gang activities.

734
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 2: If I'm the after Camelot author, I'm immediately be like,

735
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 2: wait a second, Wait a second. Let let's talk about

736
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: the messenger.

737
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 3: Let's gettext.

738
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to continue to quote from this terror member.

739
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 2: After we did our bit, Ethel, we get tech calls

740
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: from everyone in town complaining about it. At first, she

741
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 2: used to say, my kids were home asleep last night.

742
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 2: I don't know what you're talking about. But one night

743
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 2: she waited up and sure enough she caught me, Bobby

744
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 2: and David jumping out of one of the second floor

745
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: windows of her home. She chased us all over the

746
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 2: compound in the middle of the night and her nightgown

747
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: and bare feet, finally losing us somewhere on the stretch

748
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: of beach. Now one of the real through lines in

749
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 2: all these Kennedy kids' stories is that the adults have

750
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 2: very little power in these relationships. And it's not because

751
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 2: they're afraid to discipline their kids. Sometimes when they're around,

752
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: they disciplined them very severely. It's it's that they're just

753
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: not there right, and they're they're not there in large

754
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: from because they have all of these as the Kennedy's,

755
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 2: They've got this constant web of social political business, out fundraisers,

756
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 2: all sorts of shit that they have to do because

757
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 2: of who their family is. And they're also on vacation

758
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: a lot. They're traveling, they don't always want their kids around,

759
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 2: and they're able to not have their kids around right.

760
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 2: Half of the brood are away at boarding schools at

761
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 2: any given time, and the kids at boarding schools have

762
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 2: access to money and thus drugs, but not any real

763
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 2: submit supervision. You know, maybe the monk who teaches English

764
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 2: will take an interest in them, but like that's some

765
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 2: random monk. He doesn't have a lot of power in

766
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: this relationship, you know.

767
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 3: And at a certain point, after like a lot of

768
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 3: the reaction from like her specifically, Yeah, I feel like

769
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 3: it's just not going to be effective no matter what

770
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 3: where it's like okay, yeah, you're being this horrible to

771
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 3: your your small children. Yeah, we don't really care for

772
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 3: that approval or have like that sense of like, oh,

773
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 3: we don't want to upset you know the adults.

774
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 2: Right, yeah became now Another constant through line is, as

775
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier, this sense of gallows humor that pervades

776
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 2: the kids as a result of the cloud of death

777
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 2: that seemed to hang over their family. And I think

778
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: the most passage from this period comes from I'm gonna

779
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 2: read a passage from the book After Camelot describing this

780
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: one prank had the boys playing in busy Hyanna's port

781
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 2: tourist traffic, only to have one kid fall to the

782
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 2: ground while another smacked the back of a car, making

783
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 2: a loud noise. Then they would all gather around their

784
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 2: fallen chum and shout hysterical sentiments at the drivers, such

785
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 2: as you've just killed another Kennedy's. When panicked people came

786
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 2: to the aid of the young Kennedy sprawled in the

787
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 2: middle of the road, the boys would milk it for

788
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:32,919
Speaker 2: all it was worth by trying to get the boy

789
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 2: to move his legs and then saying it looked as

790
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 2: if he'd been paralyzed. But then the fallen Kennedy would

791
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: suddenly stand up and walk away. At that, the other

792
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 2: boys would proclaim, look, it's a Kennedy miracle, and then race,

793
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 2: Oh god, I gotta say that kind of rules.

794
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 3: That's exactly if you were a kid and the Kennedy

795
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 3: and all that stuff, like, of course you killed another Kennedy.

796
00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 3: Such a funny thing.

797
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 2: It's incredibly funny. It's amazingly funny.

798
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 3: Like horrific thing. Uh the acid trip? What, yeah, Bobby

799
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 3: did horrific.

800
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's funny. That's really funny. That's just actually very

801
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: good comedy.

802
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 3: He kills another Kennedy.

803
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 2: That's I'll go so far as to say it that

804
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: might actually even be example of like healthy processing of

805
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: all of this. Right, take like you're taking to some extent,

806
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 2: you're taking some ownership of this terrible thing that happened

807
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 2: to your family, right, and maybe that does help a little.

808
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 3: And you're also taking you you're also like very aware

809
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 3: of like the world's like eyes, and you're.

810
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 2: Kind of taking agency as opposed to just being subjected

811
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 2: to it. You're taking agency on it and like using

812
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 2: it for your own laughter entertainment.

813
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

814
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: Kind of see it as the healthiest thing that anyone

815
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: has done.

816
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: In this.

817
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 2: Story.

818
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: It's definitely towards the top in this story of healthy reactions.

819
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, just very good comedy.

820
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 3: It's a Kennedy miracle. It's Kennedy miracles.

821
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: That's a good line. Back at Millbrook, Bobby cultivated a

822
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 2: by this point probably understandable reputation for being out of

823
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 2: control and very odd. Like any kid, he had folks

824
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 2: who got along with him and people who thought he

825
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 2: was a dick. You can find people being like, yeah,

826
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 2: he was like the bully of the school. You can

827
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 2: find people being like, yeah, he was like kind of

828
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 2: a chill dude. He was a little bit of a

829
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 2: loner and outsider. I'm not I wasn't around right. I'm

830
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: just gonna say everyone does agree about one thing, which

831
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 2: is that he was really specifically weird about his hawk

832
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 2: and dead animals.

833
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was gonna say, like, yeah, his dorm smelled

834
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 3: like bird shit. Yep, that was the thing everybody thought.

835
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 2: Boy Cody, it's about to get a lot weirder, But

836
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 2: first it's about to be ads. Oh okay, we're back Cody,

837
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 2: you had a follow up question, what do.

838
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 3: You mean by his relationship with dead animals?

839
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 2: Great question, Cody, Great question. So let's go back to

840
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 2: the undeniable reality that I don't know, like a month

841
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 2: or two time flat circle right now. But it became

842
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 2: public knowledge that RFK Junior, serious third party presidential candidate

843
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 2: with like a possibly historic chunk of the votes certainly

844
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,919
Speaker 2: looked like that at that point in the election, had

845
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: part of his brain eaten by a worm that got

846
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 2: in there, presumably for some weird meat he ate and

847
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 2: then died after eating part of his brain. Right the claim.

848
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 2: That's the claim, and the claim came out during divorce proceedings, right,

849
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 2: And this is part of RFK trying to basically argue

850
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 2: his alimony should be amended in light of his disability.

851
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 3: Right.

852
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: And as a result of that aspect of it, I

853
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 2: have seen people doubting was he just lying? You know,

854
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 2: maybe there was no worm. He's bullshitting like and I'm

855
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 2: going to say this, a survey of his childhood makes

856
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: me feel, yeah, that brain worm was probably real. Probably

857
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: this is the story that we're about to tell that

858
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 2: makes me feel that way. So as an adult, one

859
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 2: of the sources we have on Bobby's life is this

860
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,919
Speaker 2: book called The River Keepers, which he co writes, I think,

861
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: and it's related to he works for an environmental charity

862
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 2: called the River Keepers, and his book on that includes

863
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 2: a deeply sanitized and kind of short version of his

864
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 2: own backstory. And one of the things he talks about

865
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 2: is his time at Millbrook that he spent with what

866
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 2: he calls an informal falconry program. And this is the

867
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: very sanitized version of how that his falconry at Millbrook went.

868
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 2: In the autumn, we captured and trained kestrels, red tails,

869
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 2: and immature passage hawks on their first migration. I've caught

870
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: upwards of fifty hawks a day squatting atop a ridge

871
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 2: line on Schinnemunk Mountain in the Hudson Valley. In autumn,

872
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 2: we flew wild redtails, falcons, and ghost shocks and pioneered

873
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 2: many of the game hawking techniques still used by American falconers.

874
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 2: We talked about hawks every spare moment. So maybe that's

875
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 2: all true. It can coexist with what I'm about to

876
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 2: read next. But Jerry Oppenheimer, biographer talks to one of

877
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 2: Bobby's child falcon Rebuddies who describes him very differently and

878
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 2: in a much less camera friendly manner Mill Brooks, and

879
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 2: this is his falcon rebuddy talking years later, millbrooks motto

880
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 2: was non Sibby said, kuntsis Latin for not for oneself,

881
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 2: but for all. Everyone had to participate in required community service,

882
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 2: whether it be working in the school post office, washing dishes,

883
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 2: performing grounds maintenance, or handling the zoo's inhabitants. Bobby had

884
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: chosen the latter, But the way he described his falcon

885
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,439
Speaker 2: and birding interest in his book was not the way

886
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 2: Beer Regard, who is that's the kid telling the story

887
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 2: who later went on to teach ornithology at the University

888
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: of North Carolina, remembered to Beer Regard, who was one

889
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 2: of the leaders of the falconry group at Millbrook, Bobby's

890
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 2: pursuit of the sport was more like a scene out

891
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: of a horror movie. Myself and a couple of others

892
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 2: had our hawks, and we'd go out in the countryside

893
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: hunting rabbits and squirrels. But one of the reasons why

894
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: I didn't spend much time with Bobby was his idea

895
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 2: a falconry next to the school there was a cowpit

896
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 2: where the local dairy farmers threw their dead cows, and

897
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: it was full of rats. Bobby would take his hawk

898
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: and go hunting rats in the midst of the rotting

899
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 2: cow carcasses, and he's sort of reveled and how off

900
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 2: the wall that was now Beer Regard expressed disgust at

901
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: Bobby for wanting to be in such a disgusting environment.

902
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 2: Wanted to go hunt rats in this rotting cow carcass

903
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 2: graveyard rather than going to like a well maintained chunk

904
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 2: of the woods and doing the thing that right right,

905
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 2: and one gets the feeling. I think his discuss comes from.

906
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 2: This is something Bobby did specifically to freak out preppier

907
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 2: rich kids like Beer Regard. Right, you know, he is

908
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 2: also a rich kid, but he is not preppy, and

909
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 2: he wants to kind of freak the normies.

910
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 3: He's a little freaking.

911
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 2: He's also no one goes to the rotting corpse pit

912
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 2: because it's a rotting corpse pit, so he can get

913
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 2: high there. He can do drugs, he can take acid,

914
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: can He spends a lot of time hunting rats and

915
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: taking acid at a like fucking pit of bloated cow carcasses.

916
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 2: That is a big chunk of Bobbby Junior's childhood.

917
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 3: And that's a little choko Bobby's brain. That's gonna right.

918
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the kids who visited the pit with Bobby,

919
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: maybe because Bobby had drugs and he wanted to score them,

920
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 2: was the son of a Republican horse trainer, Jamie Fanning.

921
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 2: And Jamie Fanning gives us this description of RFK Junior

922
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 2: and his late teens on the cusp of adulthood, and

923
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 2: it is the most incredible description I have read of

924
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 2: a subject. For these episodes, I still to this day

925
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: see him standing there in his black necktie that he

926
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,479
Speaker 2: wore every day over a blue Oxford Brooks Brothers shirt

927
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 2: and a beat up tweed jacket, and wearing the wildest

928
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,240
Speaker 2: bell bottoms that were purple with day glow green stripes

929
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 2: like he was some soul band guy, and in his

930
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 2: funky boots, and there he was hunting rats out of

931
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: that pile of dead sheep and cow carcasses. Yeah, I

932
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:59,760
Speaker 2: bets were funky, amazing, amazing paragraph well, oh cows and sheep,

933
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 2: cows and sheep yeah yeah, So debate and the sources

934
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 2: was it just thousands of rotting cow carcasses. By either way,

935
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: Bobby loves carcass.

936
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 3: Apparently he loves being around them, he really does.

937
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 2: He seems to be comforted by death. I don't know,

938
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: and it's Fanning. I think this description from Fanning is

939
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: the most accurate of some competing descriptions of child RFK Junior.

940
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 2: Because he's an edgy kid. He has been traumatized by

941
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 2: some seriously dark shit. He has a deranged, unhealthy family life.

942
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 2: He's got infinite money, but only one adult who cares

943
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 2: about him, and that adult is not doing it in

944
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,919
Speaker 2: the healthiest way, and he develops this edge. Maybe part

945
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 2: of it is just like surrounding yourself with death, kind

946
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 2: of like in the sense that maybe a goth would

947
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 2: later because there's been so much in your life, but

948
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 2: also some of its freaking out people is maybe the

949
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 2: only way you know to get attention.

950
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, attention and keepeople at a distance and yeah.

951
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and would continue. He was such an

952
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 2: edgy kid that that thing, the cow carcasses thing, as

953
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: bizarre as it was to be over there hunting these

954
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 2: rats out of this pile of dead carcasses, was almost

955
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 2: normal for him. It was a pretty dark grim time.

956
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 2: He was miserable and he was angry. It only got

957
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 2: worse with the drugs. And we most of the sources

958
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 2: we have on earlier RFK life are self serving in

959
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 2: some nature, right, everybody's got an agenda. These are the Kennedys.

960
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 2: But I think Fanning has probably got it right. Yeah,

961
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 2: that that is that just feels like a person to me.

962
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, like an actual like an actual human being who's

963
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 3: dealt with all these things we've talked about, and like

964
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 3: the little the little stories of him growing up and

965
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 3: like you know, like being a little a little fucker

966
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 3: right right, asshole trying to cause trouble and then gets

967
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 3: darker and darker, and he's gonna his humor is gonna

968
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 3: get darker and darker. His like environment, he's going to

969
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 3: want to be Yeah that I don't know. Yeah, and

970
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 3: the brainworm.

971
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 2: And the brain worm the brain worm doesn't now out heroin?

972
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: What else? What else doesn't help Cody is heroin, which

973
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 2: makes it way into his drug rotation. And look, we

974
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 2: can talk about the potential benefits of psychedelics. I don't

975
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 2: know anybody who's like improve their life problems unless though,

976
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 2: unless those problems are just I am dying of horrible

977
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: pain with heroin. That's really the one thing that's.

978
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 3: Good, right. You know, there's like, oh, I took mushrooms

979
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 3: and like I saw something today or yesterday of like

980
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 3: eighty percent people take mushrooms like they can quit smoking easily. Yeah,

981
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,919
Speaker 3: And it's literally just because they're like, uh stupid. Oh,

982
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 3: like I have the thought of like I shouldn't do that,

983
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 3: and they don't.

984
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:35,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has intense potential.

985
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, Like oh I took mushrooms, I stopped smoking.

986
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 3: It's like, oh I took heroin, stop smoking because I died?

987
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, Or like heroin will help you in again one

988
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 2: very It's great as a pain killer, but that's only

989
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 2: useful in certain situations, and.

990
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 3: Bobby, heroin is something you saved to the end.

991
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: It's great as a pain killer, but it works very

992
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 2: well as an emotional pain killer, but not in a

993
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 2: way that helps the problem. Right, if you actually if

994
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,879
Speaker 2: you have like you had your leg blown off by

995
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 2: a mind, Yes, a heroin might be the right thing

996
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: for you in the moment, right, that's probably real good

997
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 2: to get heroin in there. If you are mourning your

998
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 2: dad and your uncle and the collapse of your family

999
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 2: and all of the pressure you're under, the fact that

1000
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 2: your mom doesn't love you. Heroin's probably not gonna.

1001
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,720
Speaker 3: Help in the spotlight like all the thing. Yeah.

1002
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 2: Now that said, despite the fact that he is now

1003
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,879
Speaker 2: Heroin is in the mix, it's pot that's gonna get Bobby.

1004
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 2: In his first real trouble, he was arrested for the

1005
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 2: first time in Barnsdale, Massachusetts, for marijuana possession at age sixteen. Now,

1006
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 2: one of the fun parts of the RFK Junior story

1007
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 2: is that he always has this endearingly tense relationship with

1008
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 2: the cops. I don't think he likes the police, at

1009
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 2: least not as a young man. One story Oppenheimer tells

1010
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 2: is a RFK Junior and the Terrors. They're sticking potatoes

1011
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 2: into gas pipes one night and they get caught by

1012
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 2: a cop and everyone runs away, and the only one

1013
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 2: who can't escape is Bobby Shriver, who is his cousin.

1014
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 2: Bobby Junior is kind of something in his favor. Even

1015
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 2: though he's escaped, goes back to confront the cop to

1016
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 2: try and rescue his cousin. You know which to say something,

1017
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: And here's how Oppenheimer describes it. Seeing that his cousin

1018
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 2: was in the clutches of a policeman. Bobby defiantly reappeared

1019
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 2: from his hiding place and sauntered up to them. What

1020
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 2: have you got in there, the policeman asked, noting that

1021
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 2: Bobby had his hand inside his coat. I have a

1022
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 2: hawk and he's trained to kill cops. Bobby answered, you're lying,

1023
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 2: the policeman said, but Bobby kept advancing towards him until

1024
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 2: they were only inches apart, whereupon he pulled the hawk

1025
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 2: out and shoved the raptor's beak into the face of

1026
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,280
Speaker 2: the cop, who jumped back with a hand on his gun.

1027
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 3: I have a hawk. It was trained to kill cops.

1028
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 2: It's really cool.

1029
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 3: You still got some bangers, like despite it all.

1030
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: Part of the cop you're lying, you want to find out.

1031
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: It's such an only someone who has grown up in

1032
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 2: that degree of privilege who would like in that situation

1033
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 2: with a cop shove a hawk and near and like

1034
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,280
Speaker 2: bold power were power to you, buddy, You're the only

1035
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 2: guy who's ever been in that situation, and I'm glad

1036
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 2: you did it.

1037
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 3: You might you might not be the only guy who's

1038
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 3: ever shouted like I got a hawk, Yeah, yeah, but

1039
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 3: you're the one who did.

1040
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 2: You're the only one who did and lived. Right, there's

1041
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 2: a dead Hawker out there. Wow, what a tale.

1042
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1043
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 2: Anyway, Bobby's arrest was big news. You know, the media

1044
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 2: circus lights up around it, YadA YadA, YadA, and he

1045
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 2: and his cousin, He's arrested with Bobby Shreiver for pot possession.

1046
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,240
Speaker 2: This is different from the Hawk thing. They go before

1047
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: a juvenile court judge and they get a slap on

1048
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 2: the wrist, right, you know, they get a punishment. It's

1049
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 2: not all that serious. Really. The worst thing about it

1050
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 2: is the media thing around it. And Bobby had actually

1051
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 2: been expelled from Millbrook a few weeks earlier because of

1052
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 2: his drug use, because the leadership at the school was

1053
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 2: really mostly word that he was going to o D

1054
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 2: on the property and they were like, you know, what's

1055
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 2: not going to be good for this schools continuing to

1056
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 2: have people is a fucking dead Kennedy like, get him out.

1057
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 2: And after he gets arrested, they start to claim basically

1058
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 2: he got kicked out of the school because of that. Right,

1059
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: you know, they don't want to say we did it

1060
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 2: for this reason, right, Nobody really wants to it's best

1061
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 2: if it kind of comes down to being part of

1062
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 2: the arrest. The family backlash against Bobby is intense and

1063
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 2: utterly impotent. At the same time, Ethel told her son,

1064
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 2: I'm throwing you out of the family, but no effort

1065
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,760
Speaker 2: was made to stop Bobby, who is at this point

1066
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: sixteen years old, from taking six hundred dollars out of

1067
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 2: his savings account, buying a used Ford Falcon and driving

1068
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 2: across the country with two friends. He sells the car

1069
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 2: when they get to Fresno, and he and one friend

1070
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 2: continue on hopping trains and living with homeless people until

1071
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 2: they wash up in Texas for months. Bobby Kennedy is

1072
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:59,240
Speaker 2: completely out of touch with any adult, but occasionally limb Billings,

1073
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 2: and Bob would later recall this as one of the

1074
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 2: happiest times of his youth quote, I was writing around

1075
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 2: with bums. It was good I could be one of

1076
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 2: them and not a Kennedy. And like, if you want

1077
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 2: an idea of how toxic being a Kennedy is. His

1078
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 2: fondest childhood memory is being homeless, Yeah, like willingly homeless.

1079
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 3: Yeah basically yeah, but like yeah, hiding.

1080
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,359
Speaker 2: Because we're all we're all equally filthy you know at

1081
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 2: this point, you know, we're not bathing, we're not changing

1082
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 2: our clothes, like we look the same that they do,

1083
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 2: and they just kind of treat me as one of them.

1084
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 2: Nobody knows who I am. Yeah, it says a lot.

1085
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 3: I mean about again, didn't have a chance.

1086
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 2: Never had a chance. He has a next scent when

1087
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 2: he gets back from this road trip train hopping trip

1088
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 2: to a less reputable boarding school in the woods that's like,

1089
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 2: this is where you send the real problem kids. It's

1090
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,839
Speaker 2: near Boston. He continues to do drugs while he's there,

1091
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 2: and he develops a notable reputation as not a racist.

1092
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 2: He is very Oppenheimer quotes, and Oppenheimer quotes is like, wow,

1093
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 2: a white guy that black people like, right, But he

1094
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 2: does quote several black students at this school who were

1095
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 2: like militant activists, like kind of black panther adjacent in

1096
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 2: the day, and we're like, yeah, Bobby was actually really cool,

1097
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 2: Like we liked hanging out with Bobby, Like he didn't

1098
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 2: no issues with Bobby.

1099
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 3: Was clearly not a racist person.

1100
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, clearly not racist. So we'll give him that here too.

1101
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 2: Bobby Kennedy Junior graduated from this last boarding school in

1102
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 2: June of nineteen seventy two. He was now an adult.

1103
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 2: You will not be surprised to hear that his grades

1104
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 2: were not impressive. His extra curriculars at this point are

1105
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 2: basically just drugs and hanging out next to a cavern

1106
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 2: of rotting meat with my hawk men. Of this mattered

1107
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 2: to the Harvard Admissions board. RFK Junior was a legacy.

1108
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 2: His family had money and a with the Kennedy you

1109
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 2: never know, they could wind up congressman or president. So

1110
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 2: you might as well get that Harvard stank on him, right,

1111
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 2: And that's where Bobby's going to spend the mid seventies

1112
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 2: studying and getting real into heroin. And we will talk

1113
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 2: about that in part three, but for now, for this week, Cody,

1114
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,399
Speaker 2: we're done with RFK Junior. How are you feeling? Where

1115
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 2: are we on? Are we on the boy at this point?

1116
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 1: Uh?

1117
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 3: You know, still some uh mixed in the sense that

1118
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:11,840
Speaker 3: like sorry, Bobby, sorry, I get it, Yeah, but you

1119
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 3: gotta get it together. Also the rotten meat things, so

1120
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 3: like yeah, yeah, I'm just like I'm I'm very curious

1121
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 3: about where that thread leads because you don't stop there,

1122
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,399
Speaker 3: like that's not like probably the most fucked up thing

1123
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:37,879
Speaker 3: you're you're going to be doing in relation to dead

1124
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 3: animal carcasses. I don't know.

1125
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 2: I yeah, I'm going to think about the hawk a lot.

1126
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 3: The hawk.

1127
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 2: The hawk is a real like that's a fascinating.

1128
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:56,359
Speaker 3: It's fascinating talk about his train to kill cops.

1129
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 2: That's such a good life. There's some really he definitely

1130
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 2: had at one point. Maybe he's lost it now, but

1131
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,280
Speaker 2: he had at one point some of that Kennedy charisma.

1132
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 2: Because that and the whole you've just killed.

1133
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 3: It killed the Kennedy so good. It's a Kennedy miracle.

1134
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:11,320
Speaker 2: It's incredibly funny.

1135
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 3: I've got a hawk and it kills cops.

1136
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 2: Yeah all yeah, yeah.

1137
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 3: And but you know the other stuff.

1138
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, good luck to him.

1139
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 1: It turns out it doesn't turn out great, Cody.

1140
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 3: Right, well, I can still say good luck.

1141
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:34,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, good luck and good night, Cody Pluggables.

1142
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 3: Hi sure hi hello, Hi. Yes. Check out some more

1143
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 3: news on YouTube dot com. It's also a podcast if

1144
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 3: you want to listen to it instead of look at

1145
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 3: my face. And we've got even more news and other

1146
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 3: podcasts that we also are doing video now, so check

1147
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 3: that out on YouTube as well. But you can just

1148
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 3: listen to it if you don't want to see my face.

1149
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 3: Our Patreon dot com slash some more news and with

1150
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 3: me as always is a mention of my band, The

1151
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:05,800
Speaker 3: Hot Shapes. You can check out on bandcamp and SoundCloud

1152
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 3: for all your Hot Shapes needs.

1153
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 2: Band Cloud and sound camp, sound camp it yeah, all right, everybody,

1154
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 2: well go to hell Yeah, I love you.

1155
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1156
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1157
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1158
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast