WEBVTT - Reportback from the West Bank 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:04.960 Also media. 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:07.840 Hello everyone, and welcome to the podcast. 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.640 It's me James today and I'm joined by my friend 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:16.799 and yours, Charles McBride, documentary filmmaker, humanitarian activist, writer. And 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:20.079 you've just been in Palestine, is that right, Charles, Yeah, 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.400 just got back like a week and a half ago. Nice, welcome, 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:28.320 Welcome to America and the Free Damn, that's a rough transition. Actually, 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:30.800 thank you for thank you for joining us so soon 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:34.360 after you got back. So there's a lot to talk about, right, 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:38.960 Like I feel as if in like legacy media, when 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.040 there is less discussion of Palestine recently, maybe just because 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:46.239 I'm seeing so much domestic US coverage like twenty four 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:48.479 to seven, right, we're in another like Trump news cycle, 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:52.120 but especially with reference to the West Bank. Actually, like 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.880 can you look update people on the last maybe you know, 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:58.560 maybe in the time you were there, and then what's 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:00.320 especially what's happening in the West Bank, Cause I think 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:01.480 that's going to even less coverage. 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:03.880 Sure, So I've taken two trips for the West Bank 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:07.000 in the past year. Yeah, So August of last year 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:12.039 May of this year. I noticed a rapid deterioration just 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:15.280 between those two time periods. So, I mean, it was 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.080 bad last year when we went. That was right when 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.360 I was when my team went there to begin our documentary, 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.960 they had just launched this new operation in the West Bank, 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.160 which was pretty much the largest ground operation they'd launched 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.920 the Israelis had launched since the Second Antipada, and it 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:35.200 was targeted at the northern refugee camps of Tolkom, Nurse Shams, 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:38.000 and Jeanine. A lot of people know Janine, they've heard 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:40.920 that in the news. You know, it's relatively familiar. Not 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:43.480 a lot of people realize that the situation in Tolkoom 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:47.600 and in Norsham's is quite similar, and those three camps 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:51.040 in particular were targeted by the IDF operation. On the 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.360 second trip, we couldn't even we couldn't even get to 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.360 those places, not with the UNREP personnel that we were 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.600 supposed to go with our documentaries on unrout the United 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:04.440 Nation Relief Works Agency for Palestigne Refugees. And last time 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:05.640 we were there, they were able to bring us to 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:08.000 the camp. They showed us where the Israelis had you know, 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.800 bulldozed their facilities and done various air strikes in the camp. 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:14.320 This time they couldn't even take us there. So we 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.079 went to other camps and said camp, everyone's spirits were low. 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:22.840 Lots of people were talking about West Bank annexation as 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:24.480 if it seemed like an inevitability. 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:25.400 Yeah. 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.919 Yeah, And I actually spent some time inside forty eight 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.480 on this trip, and I went down to Yafa and 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.799 to Tel Aviv and interviewed some long time kind of 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:39.000 liberal journalists from Aritz, and they were just talking about 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.000 how the shift in Israeli society over the last year 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.080 has been quite marked as well, particularly around the question 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:48.560 of just generally ethnically cleansing Gaza, which was something that was, 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:53.079 according to his telling, like really only heard in very 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:57.200 right wing circles like Connie circles over the past a 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.280 couple of decades and is now just pretty routinely heard 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.120 across the spectrum Israeli society that the best solution to 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:06.120 this is to just deport everyone from Gaza. 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.640 Yeah, that's pretty bleak, Like, I mean, I guess the 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.680 process of manufacturing consent has been pretty pretty successful and 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.840 pretty complete in that sense, Like just the dehumanization of 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:23.360 Palestinian people has been pretty successful at least there. I 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:25.560 guess if people aren't familiar. We should just like explain 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:30.680 that Palestine is well. The areas which are now like 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.840 legally allotted to Palestinians, I guess, are not contiguous, right, 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:38.640 Gaza in the West Bank at different areas separated by Israel, 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:41.640 and like the bulk of what you have seen in 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.120 the last two years has been Israel's war on the 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:48.040 people of Gaza, but the West Bank is a different 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.880 and larger area which has also seen significant is really 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:55.280 like military aggression and violence from settlers, right, like a 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.800 paramilitary aggression, I guess you could call it. People I 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.640 think maybe have heard of ANRA or maybe will at 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:06.440 least be familiar with seeing it. Can you explain what 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:09.880 the agency does? It's a unique agency, right, Like it 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.600 doesn't work anywhere else in the world. It's quite a 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:14.720 unique thing to this Israel Palestine context. 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:15.520 Yeah. 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:19.440 So ANRO is probably the most controversial UN agency, and 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:21.760 that has everything to do with the context in which 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.640 it was founded. It was explicitly set up in coordination 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:30.080 between the United States, the newly founded State of Israel, 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.960 and the Arab League, coming to the United Nations and 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:36.640 presenting a plan to deal with the displacement of seven 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.320 hundred thousand Palestinians from their home as a result of 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.880 Nakba in nineteen forty eight. So out of that context, 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:47.520 it's designed as a temporary aid refugee organization. Yeah, it 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:51.400 actually it's it's set up before un HCR, so it's 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:56.440 mandated specifically for the Palestinians, and the Palestinians don't end 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:00.280 up falling under UNHDR when it's established. So a lot 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.960 of particularities about UNRA that make it different from other 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:06.120 UN agencies, which is also something that the Israelis like 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:11.120 to highlight because they're engaged in a multi decade credibility 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:12.480 campaign against UNRA. 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:14.960 But to the extent that it is. 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:20.960 Almost entirely staffed by Palestinians, it is quite different than 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:27.000 other UN agencies, which typically involve multinationals international personnel. Now, 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:29.200 a lot of the higher leadership at UNRA is still 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:34.400 kind of your same international diplomats, but in the words 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.320 of the Zionist academic that I interviewed for this documentary, 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:42.120 most of those have quote unquote gone native. So most 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:47.440 of the international diplomats do tend to, you know, obviously 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.839 be quite sympathetic to the conditions which the Palestinian staff 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:56.120 are working under. So my documentary is a it's an 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.360 investigative documentary to some extent, and it uses the frame 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.760 narrative the Israeli allegations that UNRA had been infiltrated by 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.760 Hamas and that unrepersonnel had taken place in the October 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.080 seventh massacres. Yeah, it uses that as a hook and 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.279 a frame narrative to talk about what is this organization? 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:12.760 Yeah? 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.240 Why did it go from something that was set up 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:19.039 as a temporary relief organization to seventy seven years later 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:23.039 it is responsible for maintaining the livelihood and well being 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:27.760 of five point nine million registered Palastinian refugees, not only 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.599 in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, but also 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:35.160 in Syria, in Lebanon, and in Jordan. So the politics 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.120 of it get very hazy, very quickly. But it's kind 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:42.400 of an inconvenient thing for everyone because the organization was 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.479 explicitly designed to end after a few years, but the 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.880 assumption was after a few years there would have been 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:51.640 a political resolution to the Israeli Palacinian conflict. There has 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:53.719 not been, and here we are seventy six, seventy seven 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.599 years later, and we're still at that point, so UNRA 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.680 still exists. One of the ironic things we found when 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.560 filming documentary is that everyone involved in this process wants 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:06.800 this organization to go away. Yeah, Israel Is, the Palestinians, 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.440 the staff themselves. The only thing they disagree on is 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.800 when and under what conditions? Why? 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:17.040 Yeah, I think it's Yeah, it's very interesting, like as 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.680 refuge agencies go. Because like just I was recently reading 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:25.320 Sally Hayden's or rereading Sally Hayden's book about refugees in Libya. Right, 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.520 it's called My Fourth Time We Drowned. It's an excellent book. 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:30.080 If people haven't read it, that you read it, very 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.080 good audiobook as well that they incorporated some of the 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:34.880 voice notes you got from the refugees, which I think 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.560 is good. And as it's typical of United Nations refugee 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:40.960 workers in many areas, the bulk of them end up 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.400 living or spending a lot of time in Tunisia, right, 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.040 like not in Libya and coming in like in you know, 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.520 the typical image that you see of the United Nations 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:52.840 is like a bunch of people in white land cruisers, right, 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:54.240 and they pull up and they do their thing and 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.640 they leave they're not either part of the population or 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.320 even with the population, and they often criticize for this 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.440 around the world, right, And they're very susceptible to like 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.800 state narratives, right, Like in Libya there's there's all kinds 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.720 of evacuations of corruption or like sort of state capture. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:11.320 I guess, so an agency that is supposed to be 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.560 international and supposed to be impartial, and they're supposed to, 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:18.280 above all things, advocate for refugees, right, And sometimes you 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.040 can see at tension between the IOM and the UNHCR 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:25.080 of this kind of shit. It's different with UNRA, right, Like, 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.680 like they are from what I've heard from Palestinian friends, 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.720 like more respected by Palestinian people because of the work 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:34.560 that they do and the value that they provide. 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:37.240 Yeah, I mean, I would say like trust in UNRA 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:42.920 is probably higher than in the Palestinian authority. The PA 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:46.320 is largely seen as a contractor or subcontractor for Israel, right, 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:50.760 and UNRA is seen, you know, as flawed. I mean, 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.280 there are a lot of Palestinians who are deeply critical 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.280 of UNRA, particularly the constant efforts it takes to sort 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.080 of remain neutral on all of these political questions. Yeah, 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.680 and you know, inefficiencies that are going to come with 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.520 any multinational institution in Goo. Yeah, of course, but in 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.400 general they seem to I mean, at this point, we've 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:13.200 interviewed dozens of people who had various relationship whether they 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.679 had gone to unreschools or they had taken you know, 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.840 they had been to unrehealth clinics, and by and large 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.840 they preferred these and they saw the value in UNRA. 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:26.040 They liked the unreschools, they liked the unrahealth clinics. UNRA 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.040 is largely responsible for the fact that Palestinians are one 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.880 of the most literate populations in the Middle East, and 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.319 many of them speak English incredibly well. I mean, like, yeah, 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:39.520 it's wild talking to an eight or nine year old 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.240 girl who grew up in a refugee camp and she's 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.800 speaking to me in perfect English talking about how she 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.160 wants to move to Los Angeles and become an actress, 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:49.760 and it's just it's wild. And that's kind of a 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.559 testament to what UNDRA has done. And that's very inconvenient 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.839 for Israel because when you educate a lot of refugees 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.480 who can then learn English and turn around and speak 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:01.719 to the world very eloquent ways about the nature of 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.920 their oppression and their suffering. It becomes an ideological barrier 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.559 to your particular political project. 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.199 Right, And this is one of the things that has 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:14.840 distinguished the genocide in Gaza in terms of like how 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.720 it's been perceived in the US at least, right, is that, like, 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.760 you have a very literate population that is able to 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:26.079 articulate what is happening directly via social media and to 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:31.040 traditional media, right, like to people like yourself making documentaries 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:36.120 like this is distinct from populations like I think of 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.200 the Rahinga right, Like, you know, I speak to Rahinga 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.520 people pretty often, but I don't think most Americans see 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.240 Rahingah folks if they go on TikTok or or Instagram, 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.720 and you know, as a result, I think people would 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.520 have cared as deeply. You know, people would have been 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.000 in the streets for that, but that communication wasn't that 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.360 And yeah, it is extremely inconvenient if your project isn't 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:02.559 an ethno state, right, and you're willing to cleanse areas 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:05.080 of other ethnicities to build your ethno state in it, 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:09.439 which is what's happening, then it's very convenient if there's 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:11.480 people you're trying to cleanse can talk to the world, 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:13.760 you know, in a language of the world understands and 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.240 very eloquently and make their case for not being ethnically cleansed. 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:17.840 Yeah. 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.400 No, it is tribute to the work that ANRA has done. 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:21.880 You know what, I guess we should do. I guess 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.960 we should take an advertising break right now. So let's 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:26.319 do that. 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:27.040 We'll come back. 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.280 All right, we are back. Let's talk about the alternative 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:44.079 to UNRA. Alternative is a wrong word. Let's talk about 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:47.960 the attempt to make an end run around unrous existence 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:52.120 by installing this fascical NGO. 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:53.760 I guess you could call it an d O or 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:54.720 like AID Provider. 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.480 This is a gaza humanitarian fund people who aren't familiars 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:04.000 synthetic GENRA alternatives. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's unstitute, like the 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.760 zine of UNRA. You know. Okay, so what what's going 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:09.920 on with the guy? Let's talk about what it is 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:11.800 and what it claims to do first, and then we'll 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:13.959 talk about how it's not doing it very well or 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.360 at all, Like people are fucking dying in droves. 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:19.760 Yeah, Mile High View. 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.280 UNRA maintains most of the aid going in and out 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.880 of Gaza. Everyone I know in the humanitarian world has 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.360 had to interface at least to some degree with UNRA 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:35.120 during the aid process, and that's difficult because it has 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:40.120 been essentially been declared a terrorist entity by the Israeli 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:43.800 government and has been banned from operating inside what Israel 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:47.200 considers to be its territory, including occupied East Jerusalem and 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.679 increasingly in the West Bank. They're trying to limit its 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.520 operations and in Gaza they say they can't work with 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.320 them because they're Hamas. So it's the UNER people are 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:59.040 quite confused because they they've had to deconflict with the 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:02.440 Israelis for this entire time, and recently as a result 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:05.680 of this law, it's actually become illegal under Israeli law 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.440 for the Israelis to like coordinate with UNRA, and so 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.280 the UNRA of people don't have been Actually they don't 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.479 really understand what's going to happen. There's been some limited coordination, 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.560 but still we talk to people who are very high 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.160 up in the organization and they essentially had no idea 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:22.920 what the Israelis were planning to do to replace NRA 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.480 or to coordinate with them in Gaza, and so They 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.920 just kept kind of doing their thing until the Israelis 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.880 literally made them stop in certain instances. Right. Yeah. My 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.400 documentary is called the War on UNRA, and part of 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:38.000 this war has been the propaganda efforts and the Israelis 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:41.800 going after this organization and everyone in the humanitarian aid 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:43.400 world has sort of been asking the question, well, what 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.400 are you going to do to replace it? This is 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.040 an organization that deals with like two million people in 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.280 Gaza and like three million in the West Bank. Not 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:53.320 all of those are registered with UNRAP, but it's dealing 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:55.560 with all of the refugee camps there in Gaza itself 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.640 is a refugee camp, like it only exists as such 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.040 as a result of the AKA, because it's where they 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.000 put all of the displaced people who weren't in Jordan. 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:04.560 Yeah. 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.439 And so the Israelis basically. 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:08.960 Had their backskins wall and they're like, Okay, well we 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.040 have to come up with some alternative to this because 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.600 we can't come out and say, actually, our main goal 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.680 is to depopulate Gaza and settle it. Yeah. Yeah, and 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:21.280 so they cooked up this idea of the Gaza Humanitarian Fund, 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:25.640 which was kind of this public private partnership backed by 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:29.880 the Israelis and the Americans, and the intention was to 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:34.680 entirely subvert not only UNRU, but the entire UN infrastructure 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.360 that goes into the Gaza strip. For instance, every UN 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.760 agency in the world actually piggybacks off of the World 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.720 Food Program because they're always the first ones in. So 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:49.680 it's WFP infrastructure, trucks, you know, vehicles, everything like that 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.920 that goes in first, and then UNHCR, UNISEF all this 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.920 thing they're piggybacking, coordinating with WFP. In this instance, WFP 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:58.000 is coordinating with UNRA. 0:14:58.360 --> 0:14:58.920 The Israelis. 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.040 One did not only buy RA, they wanted to just 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.880 put the entire UN system out of that. So to 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.760 do that, they formed this sort of collaborative partnership under 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.880 the management of the Israelis, which was supposed to be 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:16.200 kind of an amalgam of all of these different private NGOs. 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:18.240 And I don't want to get too much into the 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.640 specifics of like who sort of was involved in that, 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.320 but a lot of people kind of took them at 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.200 face value. They wanted this to be a real solution, 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.880 and so they offered to help and kind of set 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.320 up this system which was supposed to be overseen entirely 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.680 by the Israelis and the Americans from a security perspective. 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:35.200 Yeah. 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:36.920 One of those was Jake woodho was the founder of 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.600 Team Rubicon, which is an organization that does a fair 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.720 amount of excellent work all around the world. He resigned 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.280 from the Gaza Humanitarian Fund a day before it launched 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.520 and went on record saying we cannot actually do this 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:54.520 while keeping to humanitarian principles of humanity and neutrality, which 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.160 was a signal to the world that this was a 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:00.600 highly politicized project, which is precisely what the World Food 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:05.200 Program under the leadership of radical leftist activist Cindy McCain 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.720 has been saying about this from the start. And you know, UNROE, 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.440 Felipe Lazarini, the head of UNRA, said this is this 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.200 is a clearly political sized event on the only the 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.920 un system is the only one capable of actually dealing 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.640 with this in a humanitarian way. All those concerns were 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:24.680 brushed aside. American contractors were brought in. Yeah, and the 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.800 results were relatively predictable. We've seen at this point two 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.720 pseudo massacres, I mean the first one with that four 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.040 Palestinians were killed in just this morning twenty seven Palestinians 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:39.480 were killed at a GHF distribution after gunfire was opened 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:40.200 up on them. 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.840 Yeah, we're recording on the third gene, so that was 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.880 when this this second massacre occurred. And yeah, like, I 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.480 mean just today as we're recording this, I've seen that 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:53.200 Boston Consulting Group again, like not exactly, like a bastion 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:58.720 of wokeness has terminated this relationship with the Gods Humanitarian Foundation, right, Like, 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.800 the kind of see that this is a replacement for 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.399 UNRA to begin with was somewhat fascical, right, But people 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:10.119 who were prepared to go along with that, either because 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.160 they can make money doing it or because they thought 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.240 this was the only way to stop people starving, are 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.679 still deciding that, having seen the way that this is run, 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.120 it's not worth it, right, right, And. 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.679 There's also some political heavy handedness going on with this, 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:28.320 one of the most obvious features being specific aid distribution 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:32.199 points in the south of Gaza, which are designed to 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:36.000 bring you know, whereas UNRA and WFP were going to people, 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.200 they were trying to get food through as much of 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.200 the Gaza strip as possible, including people who wanted to 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.080 return to their homes in the North, the GHF is like, nope, 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.439 you starving population will need to make the journey to 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.960 this distribution point and this distribution point only, which you 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:51.760 know has the political effect of depopulating these areas that 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.760 you know, Israel is operating in. Yeah, which of course 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:58.040 is also met criticism. There are some videos going around 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:01.640 so impalston In celebrating yeah, you know, the relief efforts 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:03.680 of the of the JHEF. I think some of them 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:07.320 have been like verified by Reuters. You know, Israeli media 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.439 is making hay of that. You know, people praising Trump 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.800 in Gaza, right, which you know, these people are starving 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:14.040 and they're very happy to get aid. 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:14.680 Yeah. 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.520 That doesn't mean that like everything is above board and cool, right. 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:20.320 It means that like the people who need a food 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:20.800 got food. 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.760 Yeah, I mean, and that's the political complexity. The situation 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.120 is that the people of Gaza have just been abandoned 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:28.320 by everyone, right, I mean, there's there's there's a lot 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:30.159 of criticism to be a haad of how Hamas has 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.440 handled this. There's a lot of criticism to be had 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.000 of obviously the way in which Israel has behaved and 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:38.800 the UN system and the international system. So I mean, 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.320 I'm glad that like some of them are getting food. Yeah, 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.440 that is that is an improvement of none of them 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.959 getting food. But everyone in the AID world is starting 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.280 to go on record saying the main problem is Israel 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.840 preventing AID from going into the Gaza strip. And actually 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:55.280 I want to harp on that a little bit because 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.960 the reason that has been given primarily for that is 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.800 that Hamas is stealing the AID. Every time they're asked 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.320 about this, they go back to, well, we want to 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.800 get into people gaza. Unfortunately Hamas keeps stealing the aid 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:09.520 and so we can't allow it. We need to allow 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.000 us to trickle in. Yeah, that's interesting for two reasons. 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:13.800 First of all, the yet to provide any evidence that 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:17.840 that's actually occurring, and second because all humanitarian experts agree 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.040 that even if that was the case, say everything is 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.440 real said about Hamas was true, and they were stealing 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:24.240 you know, ninety ninety five percent of the eight that's 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.280 coming in and selling it back, the humanitarian solution to 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:29.720 that would be to flood the strip with so much 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:32.679 AID that it would literally be impossible for them to 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.680 like to stop that, which we can't do, Like, yeah, 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:37.480 it would be possible for us to flood the Gaza 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:39.320 strip with so much aid that it would be like 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:41.800 an abundance of food. So the decision not to do 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:43.080 that is a political one. 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:45.560 Yes, definitely, Like I was going to say, on the 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.520 face of it, it doesn't matter. There are lots of situations, 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:52.720 to be clear, where people steal aid. It's undesirable, of 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:54.880 course it is. But yeah, the solution is more aid, 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.480 not like unfortunately the aid has been stolen, so now 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.399 they children must have. Yeah, that only works if you're 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:03.919 prepared to accept the outcome in which little children die 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:05.119 of starvasues. 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:08.480 Which the Israelis are. They're perfectly I mean this near 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.600 was a University of Pennsylvania poll. I'm not saying eighty 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:15.080 four percent of Israelis are in favor of the idea 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.800 of just simply either killing or displacing everyone in the 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:20.160 gardsa eighty four percent. 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:22.960 Yeah, it's wild to see. 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:26.520 Like it's been such a strange couple of years in 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.320 that sense, right, because more people in this country are 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:31.760 aware of the plight of the people of Palestine than 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.360 ever have been, and more people are engaged with it. 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.359 That is mostly good. Some people have been gaged to 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.360 it in a way which is far from good. Right, Like, 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.439 I don't think there's really very much be gained. Fucking 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:48.959 throwing molotov cocktails people in Boulder is not making anything 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:52.240 better for anyone. It's just making everything danger more dangerous 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:53.680 for everyone. And it's fucking stupid. 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:56.960 And I would extend that to gunning down yes, so 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:59.920 would I. Yeah, Israeli a couples outside the Jewish music 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.440