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Speaker 1: The volume.

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Speaker 2: What is going on everybody? John middlecop three and Out podcast.

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Speaker 2: Football season is unofficially here. I can't want you to

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Speaker 2: get pads on, which will probably happen most teams around

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Speaker 2: the league. Some of them are a little head of schedule,

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Speaker 2: but I would say the overwhelming every team in the

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Speaker 2: league we have pads on by either next Monday or Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: and that to me is the official start of football.

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Speaker 2: And so it doesn't get any better than this time

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Speaker 2: of year. I get juiced up when I see Aaron

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Speaker 2: Rodgers to Garrett Wilson pass, but there's nothing quite like

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Speaker 2: the pads popping just the It's awesome. It doesn't get

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Speaker 2: any better. That's what football is all about. So we're

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Speaker 2: rocking and rolling. I did a golf podcast yesterday reacting

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Speaker 2: to the Open Championship, the last major of the year.

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Speaker 2: That'll be the last golf podcast for a while because

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Speaker 2: football's rock and rolling. So today we will have I'll

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Speaker 2: give a couple of thoughts on some stories around the league,

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Speaker 2: and we will also have Mike Lombardi, former NFL GM

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Speaker 2: current podcaster. I talked to him at the end of

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Speaker 2: last week just about some big picture stuff, so he's

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Speaker 2: he joined me for a while. He's he's awesome. He

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Speaker 2: lets it fly. He'll talk some shit even though we

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Speaker 2: don't always agree. And the game plan will be for

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Speaker 2: tomorrow obviously, no go lo. It'll just be another three

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Speaker 2: and Out podcast, So more football talk, a lot of

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Speaker 2: mail bag questions, I'm sure so at John Middlecoff is

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Speaker 2: the Instagram. Firing those dms and get your questions answered

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Speaker 2: on the show, and that's that's gonna go on year long.

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Speaker 2: So just firing those dms, get your question answered on

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Speaker 2: the show. Also, if you want to go to the

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Speaker 2: Volume dot Com. We got three and out trucker hats.

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Speaker 2: I still have. They're still in transit on their way

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Speaker 2: to me. But I've been rocking the go low trucker hats.

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Speaker 2: Get yourself a three and out trucker hat. We've been

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Speaker 2: working on the on The logo looks pretty good, so

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Speaker 2: give me some feedback. Go buy them. I can't recommend

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Speaker 2: him enough of the Volume dot com three and out

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Speaker 2: trucker hat. So let's buckle up, get ready for some

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Speaker 2: football and see where the season goes.

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Speaker 1: Baby.

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Speaker 2: I went to Morgan Walling last week and my friends,

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Speaker 2: the number one ticketing app in America, the official ticketing

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Speaker 2: app of three and out. Game Time took care of me.

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Speaker 2: So what I needed to do? I need you to

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Speaker 2: go to your smartphone. I got one right here. Download

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Speaker 2: the Game Time app and use the promo code John

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Speaker 2: Jochen when you when you sign up for your first

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Speaker 2: pair of tickets, you will get twenty dollars off. You

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Speaker 2: want to go to a game this fall, football game,

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Speaker 2: college or pro. Obviously baseball is just the heat of

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Speaker 2: the summer. Baby the dog days. Go watch your squad

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Speaker 2: play concerts. I can't recommend Morganwallen enough concert was elite.

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Speaker 2: I went back to back nights because of game Time.

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Speaker 2: Use the promo code John, get twenty dollars off. Have

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Speaker 2: yourself ball, take your son, take a brother, take your wife,

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Speaker 2: take your dad or mom, and just go enjoy yourself

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Speaker 2: at an event and do it on me. Promo co

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Speaker 2: John the Game Time at number one ticketing ap in America.

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Speaker 2: Sure where do we want to start? Football wise? But

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Speaker 2: let's start with James Garoppolo and listen. Jimmy Garoppolo has

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Speaker 2: a long, extensive injury history. Some guys do right, some

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Speaker 2: guys get hurt a lot, and some guys for whatever reason,

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Speaker 2: are iron men and never get injured. It is the

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Speaker 2: one thing in pro sports that you just never know.

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Speaker 2: A guy can have a long resume of injuries and

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Speaker 2: then just play several years and be, you know, perfectly fine.

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Speaker 2: And a guy that has been available his own his

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Speaker 2: entire career can just start getting hurt constantly at thirty

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Speaker 2: years old or thirty three years old or twenty eight

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Speaker 2: years old. You never know. This is something There is

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Speaker 2: no perfect formula for this, But I would say in

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Speaker 2: my experience of watching sports, and I would have mad

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Speaker 2: and a lot of people listening to this, who are

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Speaker 2: if you're my age and your thirties and your forties,

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Speaker 2: even if you're in your twenties, you've been watching sports

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Speaker 2: long enough. There are certain guys who get injured a lot.

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Speaker 2: There are other guys who are just more available than others.

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Speaker 2: And I would say, if you stick with investing and

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Speaker 2: signing and drafting guys that have proven having availability, you

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Speaker 2: give yourself a better chance. But you could sign Reggie

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Speaker 2: White or Lawrence Taylor or Peyton Manning or whoever in

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Speaker 2: their prime, and they could have an immediate injury and

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Speaker 2: their career could end. That's just the nature of the

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Speaker 2: sport of football, it will dive into some of the

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Speaker 2: early injuries. But it happens in OTAs. It happens in

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Speaker 2: training camps before the pads come on, it happens in

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Speaker 2: preseason games. It obviously happens in the regular season. It's

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Speaker 2: one of the sad parts about what I would consider

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Speaker 2: the greatest team game in the world. Sorry soccer fans,

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Speaker 2: but I do think the Raiders are on a very

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Speaker 2: slippery slope. Josh McDaniels has hitched his wagon to a

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Speaker 2: guy who last year at this time could not pass

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Speaker 2: a physical. So if you want to say that Jimmy

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Speaker 2: has improved his availability, because at this point last year,

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Speaker 2: in the late July, he wasn't even available. It took

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Speaker 2: till the end of training camp for him to be

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Speaker 2: able to pass a physical. Now, granted, he couldn't pass

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Speaker 2: a physical the majority of twenty twenty two, but this

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Speaker 2: is a guy with countless injuries from his feet to

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Speaker 2: his knees, to his hand to his shoulders. He gets

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Speaker 2: injured a lot, and he's a good player, but he's

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Speaker 2: not really good.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: You're not signing Peyton Manning like the Denver Broncos did

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Speaker 2: in twenty twelve. You're not signing Tom Brady like Tampa Bay.

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Speaker 2: This is a guy who is very dependent on who

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Speaker 2: is playing around him. And luckily in his career the

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Speaker 2: couple games that he had to start when Tom was

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Speaker 2: suspended and his time in San Francisco, he's in a

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Speaker 2: pretty freaking good team and really good head coach. Now,

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Speaker 2: Josh was the offensive coordinator for his time in New

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Speaker 2: England and those couple games that he started before he

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Speaker 2: got injured in the second game when he injured his shoulder.

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Speaker 2: But the one thing is being a coordinator and being

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Speaker 2: a head coach we've all learned is completely different. And

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Speaker 2: looking at Josh's honestly, his record is actually better than

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Speaker 2: I thought it would be when I looked it up.

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Speaker 2: It's seventeen and twenty eight. If he said, John, what

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Speaker 2: do you guess, Josh McDaniels record is a head coach,

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Speaker 2: I would have been like fifteen and forty. So it's

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Speaker 2: better than I thought. But he's proven to be below

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Speaker 2: average as a head coach from the eye test, even

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Speaker 2: if you give him a little bit of a pass.

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Speaker 2: John Denver, Broncos A long time ago. Okay, well, I

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Speaker 2: witnessed last year Derek Carr coming out the best season

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Speaker 2: of his career, have the worst season of his career

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Speaker 2: under him, and the team being unable to win any

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Speaker 2: close games that mattered until the season was basically over,

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Speaker 2: and then at the end of the year it just

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Speaker 2: didn't matter because they won six games. So when you

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Speaker 2: hit your wagon into a guy, a quarterback, right, you

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Speaker 2: get rid of Derek. Okay, it's football. He didn't get

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Speaker 2: it done. He doesn't fit your system. Like listen, he's

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Speaker 2: been there nine years. He had no problem with that.

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Speaker 2: I had no issue with them moving on from him

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Speaker 2: as a quarterback. But to hit your wagon too a

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Speaker 2: guy who is always injured and to have no backup plan, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean their backup quarterback is Brian Hoyer. And the

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Speaker 2: other thing is your third best player, right DeVante, Max

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Speaker 2: Crosby or two best players Josh Jacobs. I'd say is

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Speaker 2: if not on their level right behind just got seen

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Speaker 2: getting on an airplane leaving now doesn't have a contract

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Speaker 2: over the dispute of the of the franchise tag. But

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Speaker 2: I think it's fair to say that he's not going

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Speaker 2: to be a round all training camp. So you're going

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Speaker 2: to be very dependent on him, and we've seen this

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Speaker 2: with running backs can be very hit or missed when

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Speaker 2: they're mia of off camp. Who is kind of a

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Speaker 2: one season wonder. Now he's he's been a good player

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Speaker 2: when he'd been on the field before twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: but he've never had a season quite like that. I

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Speaker 2: just think that this situation with the Raiders could get ugly,

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Speaker 2: and could get ugly really fast. Now. A couple weeks ago,

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Speaker 2: when I did kind of my hot seat rank, I

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Speaker 2: didn't put him on just in the simple fact I

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Speaker 2: don't think Mark Davis wants to do another coaching search.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he wants to pay a guy to

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Speaker 2: go away. But if Jimmy Garoppolo gets injured, as he

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Speaker 2: always does, and all of a sudden, you're with Brian

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Speaker 2: Hoyer and some other random quarterback that you're going to

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Speaker 2: be forced to sign, and your season is derailed and

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Speaker 2: you're looking at a three or four win team and

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Speaker 2: we start talking about Caleb Williams with you at the

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Speaker 2: end of October, this thing can get ugly, and this

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Speaker 2: thing can get ugly fast. Vegas is about the stars,

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Speaker 2: the bright lights. You pay premiums to go to shows

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Speaker 2: and they've been lucky, right, Lucky's the wrong word. They

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Speaker 2: have changed the landscape of the city by adding professional teams.

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Speaker 2: The Vegas Knights just won a championship, right, that's a fact.

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Speaker 2: I mean they are the best team in the NHL.

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Speaker 2: And you can say the NHL hockey teams are clearly

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Speaker 2: the fourth team in basically every market. But when it

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Speaker 2: comes to Vegas, who have only had a football team

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Speaker 2: now for a couple of years, who are looks like

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Speaker 2: they're getting a baseball team and do not have an

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Speaker 2: NBA team yet. Like, the Knights did it right. The

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Speaker 2: arena is sweet and they kick ass well the Raiders.

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Speaker 2: Their stadium is pretty cool. It looked I've never been inside,

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Speaker 2: but I've got virtual tours and I've driven by it.

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Speaker 2: It looks bad ass that they did it right. The

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Speaker 2: facilities are awesome. The team has not been good and

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Speaker 2: the team last year was an embarrassment. And I just

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Speaker 2: this thing can get ugly fast. It really can. And

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Speaker 2: I think they're hitching their wag into a guy who

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Speaker 2: is just not the most dependable individual, no fault of

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Speaker 2: his own, Like I don't think Jimmy wants to get

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Speaker 2: hurt but he does get injured a lot, and their

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Speaker 2: coach has proven to just not be very good. So

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Speaker 2: I got the Raiders massively red flagged. One thing that

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Speaker 2: I never enjoyed as a scout or even when I

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Speaker 2: worked in college football, it just the pit in my stomach,

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Speaker 2: the lack of ability to control anything. Is just when

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Speaker 2: you're at practice in training camp, you know you could

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Speaker 2: be as well, and a guy goes down and the

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Speaker 2: entire place, if there are fans there or not, goes

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Speaker 2: completely silent. Everyone knows is a major injury. And the

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Speaker 2: sad reality when it's a pile, depending on what position

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Speaker 2: group is involved, you're just praying to God, Like I'll

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Speaker 2: just use the forty nine ers as an example. If

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Speaker 2: it's D line and O line stuff and there's a

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Speaker 2: pile and someone is not getting up, you're like, I

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Speaker 2: hope to God that's not Trent Williams or Nick Bosa.

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Speaker 2: And then when you see that it's someone else, it's

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Speaker 2: a weird feeling because it's like a sense of relief,

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Speaker 2: and then the cart comes out and it's a sense

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Speaker 2: of then also devastation because a guy's clearly had a

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Speaker 2: major injury and it's something that I have anxiety even

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Speaker 2: thinking about I hated that feeling. But coaches, especially longtime coaches,

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Speaker 2: and definitely longtime executives. I don't know if you ever

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Speaker 2: get numb, but their ability to move on to the

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Speaker 2: next play, to the next drill with injuries is it's

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Speaker 2: pretty impressive and part of that. And you could argue

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Speaker 2: in any industry. I'm sure I have people listening to

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Speaker 2: me from every business, from car sales to doctors to

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Speaker 2: people that work in sports. You become in a sense

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Speaker 2: numb to certain things, like you've been to a hospital.

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Speaker 2: Not proud, but you know, I remember when my dad

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Speaker 2: was really sick. The doctor came in and basically said, like,

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Speaker 2: he's not actually alive, so if the ventilators are the

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Speaker 2: only thing keeping him alive, and this is well before

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, and my mom couldn't do it, so it

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Speaker 2: was on me and my brother and his like the

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Speaker 2: devastation in that room with our family. This guy says

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Speaker 2: this every day to people. And I'm not saying that

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Speaker 2: guy ever gets numb to seeing life disappear, but after

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Speaker 2: you see it enough, I mean that doctor has a

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Speaker 2: perspective when people tell him like, yeah, I guess you

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Speaker 2: got to pull the plug that us in that room.

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Speaker 2: Anyone listening that has been through that, the feeling in

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Speaker 2: our room of pure devastation. I mean, the worst thing

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Speaker 2: that can ever happen to you is something he sees

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Speaker 2: on a daily basis. I don't know how they cope

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Speaker 2: with it, but clearly you have to. That's the profession

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Speaker 2: you're in, and they deal with life and death. When

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Speaker 2: we're coming to football, you're just dealing with careers. But

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Speaker 2: when I see today that Gardner Johnson, the former Eagle safety,

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Speaker 2: I think he led the league in interceptions last year,

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Speaker 2: who's now in the Lions card off the field, You're

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Speaker 2: going to see that a lot more this week. Non

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Speaker 2: contact injuries, Guys being carted off the field, and some

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Speaker 2: of them are just going to be freakouts and it's

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Speaker 2: going to be Okay, he just sprained his knee, and

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Speaker 2: others are going to be devastating the injuries or torn

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Speaker 2: pecks or you know, dislocated ankles, whatever, and it is.

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Speaker 2: It's the worst part of training camp. I don't even

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Speaker 2: think there is a close second. But the reality is,

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Speaker 2: and I've held the sheet, is the GM looks at

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Speaker 2: you if you're you know the assistant GM or you're

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Speaker 2: one of the scouts, And when I was in with

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Speaker 2: the Eagles used to hold it in my pocket. Technology

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Speaker 2: has changed a little bit. Well, you'd have a tangible

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Speaker 2: piece of paper with the short list. So when you

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Speaker 2: lose a guard or when you lose a safety, you

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Speaker 2: have a list of other safeties on the street, and

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Speaker 2: you immediately go to work with setting up workouts or

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Speaker 2: bringing in a guy to immediately sign, because that's just

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Speaker 2: the business you're in and there's just no avoiding it.

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Speaker 2: And it's something I do not miss. I don't even

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Speaker 2: like reading about injuries, let alone. But if you're Belichick,

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Speaker 2: if you're Pete Carroll or Andy Reid, you've seen this

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Speaker 2: now for forty fifty years, and I'm sorry you're around

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Speaker 2: something long enough. I don't want to say you're I

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Speaker 2: hate using the term numb, but you definitely get used

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Speaker 2: to it, and you definitely get used to the mindset

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Speaker 2: of just next one up, next man up. Now, there

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Speaker 2: are certain players and I haven't seen this yet, but

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Speaker 2: there is no next man up. When you lose a

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Speaker 2: high you know, a Tier one player, when you lose

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Speaker 2: a blue chip All Pro, and you just kind of

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Speaker 2: got to keep your fingers crossed whoever your team is

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Speaker 2: every day during training camp. You know, it's why so

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Speaker 2: many teams now don't play anybody. And I give Sean

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Speaker 2: McVay credit. I thought it was crazy. I'm like, you're

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Speaker 2: not gonna play anyone during the preseason. I'm in agreement

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Speaker 2: with him. Now. I know Belichick and Andy and Tomlins,

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Speaker 2: some of these old school coaches still play some of

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Speaker 2: their guys. But I think when you factor in the money,

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Speaker 2: and you factor in just the importance of if you're

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Speaker 2: a good team, the seven eight core players on your roster,

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Speaker 2: especially the older they get, they would never play a

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Speaker 2: snap for me. If I own the team, that would

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Speaker 2: be a mandate i'd have. I'd say, letsten, I don't

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Speaker 2: meddle with draft picks, I don't meddle with signings. I

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Speaker 2: will give you whatever you need to do. My only

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Speaker 2: mandate is, I'm sorry, whatever the list is. If it's

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Speaker 2: five guys, if it's nine guys, they're just not We

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Speaker 2: might lose them when games come. But the game's got

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Speaker 2: to be a real game, not not a preseason game.

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Speaker 2: And last, but not least, is I remember when I

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Speaker 2: was in college in like five oh six, o seven,

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Speaker 2: And then I went to work with Fresno State and

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Speaker 2: see some of our guys get drafted really high. There

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Speaker 2: wasn't a rookie wage scale, and anyone if you're of

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Speaker 2: a certain age, remembers when guys like Nadamakin, Sue and

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Speaker 2: Sam Bradford and most famously JaMarcus Russell, they got enormous

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Speaker 2: sums of money. I mean you're talking guys Bradford sixty

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Speaker 2: million dollars. JaMarcus Russell this is almost twenty years ago

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Speaker 2: now before he had ever taken a snap again, this

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Speaker 2: pre inflation and everything. I think got well over forty

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Speaker 2: million dollars. And then when the new CBA happened, I

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Speaker 2: think it was in twenty eleven. Remember the lockout. The

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Speaker 2: rookie wage scale, I think made the league a lot healthier.

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Speaker 2: And I think you've seen if you're a Colts fan,

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Speaker 2: if you're a Texans fan, if you're a Panther fan,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna see all these quarterbacks have signed their contract.

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Speaker 2: And basically I think Anthony Richardson was like thirty four million.

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Speaker 2: I think Bryce was thirty seven or thirty eight. That

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Speaker 2: would mean CJ's you know, thirty six and a half

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Speaker 2: thirty seven million dollars fully game. This is a fully

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Speaker 2: guaranteed four year contract and they're signing bonuses. I could

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Speaker 2: pull it up. I think it's, you know, twenty five

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Speaker 2: to twenty eight million dollars they get guaranteed. Now, if

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Speaker 2: you hit on those quarterbacks those first four years at

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Speaker 2: that number, averaging whatever, under ten million dollars a season,

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Speaker 2: it is the best contract you will ever sign. But

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Speaker 2: the lie averages will show us minimum two of the

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Speaker 2: three of these guys are just not not only not

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Speaker 2: going to be franchised quarterbacks, probably inevitable backups. Right, They're

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Speaker 2: gonna be quote unquote bus like Zach Wilson. I saw

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Speaker 2: a headline the other day. I think Sala feels like

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Speaker 2: the Jets, you know, report a little early to training

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Speaker 2: camp and a lot of positives coming out about Zach Wilson.

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Speaker 2: Sala kind of singing this praises like I'm sorry, I'm

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Speaker 2: calling bullshit. There have already been rumors. I think Rich

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Speaker 2: Samini wrote that the Jets fully believe, and Aaron Rodgers

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Speaker 2: communicated it would take a devastating like he plans on

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Speaker 2: playing the next year. Zach Wilson's contract will be up.

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Speaker 2: You're not picking up his fifth year option, right, So

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Speaker 2: he won't be on the Jets in two years. Hell,

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Speaker 2: he's not guaranteed to be on the Jets the fall

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four. Like that. If they had a

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Speaker 2: due over on that one, I got news for you,

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Speaker 2: they would do it over. If they got a due

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Speaker 2: over on that one, they wouldn't even take a quarterback

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Speaker 2: because beside Trevor Lawrence and I was pound on the

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Speaker 2: table for Justin Fields that there is no guarantee that

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Speaker 2: any of those guys would have been worth the pick.

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Speaker 2: That there are still an unknown on Fields. Mac Jones

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Speaker 2: to me, under no circumstances could be a top ten pick,

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Speaker 2: and Trey Lanson, Zach Wilson, if you could redo that thing,

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Speaker 2: neither one is sniffing the first round. Now, that doesn't

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Speaker 2: define their career. It you know, they could go to

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Speaker 2: other teams and resurrect their career. We've seen it happen

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Speaker 2: countless times. Hell, Gino Smith just did it last year

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Speaker 2: and he had bounced around the league for a while.

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Speaker 2: But the way scale what it used to be, whatever

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Speaker 2: the equivalent would be now, right, if Sam Bradford and

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Speaker 2: whatever eight is getting sick million factory and inflation in

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Speaker 2: the cap. I mean, we were talking one hundred million

351
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Speaker 2: dollar contracts for these guys right at minimum eighty five,

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Speaker 2: and it's much easier to pivot when you screw up

353
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Speaker 2: with thirty five million dollars than it is triple that number.

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Speaker 2: So the wage scale has made the legal lot healthier.

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Speaker 2: I think from a locker room standpoint. The reason Belichick

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Speaker 2: used to always trade down. Now, for the most part,

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Speaker 2: he was drafting in the twenties, but even then, you know,

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Speaker 2: he would trade back sometimes he would get out of

359
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Speaker 2: the first round. He didn't want a guy in his

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Speaker 2: locker room making three or four million dollars that had

361
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Speaker 2: never proven shit when he had core guys who'd won

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Speaker 2: championships with making six Right, So you're like, wait, I've

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Speaker 2: been on the scene for four years. I'm making five

364
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 2: and a half million dollars. We just drafted this guy

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Speaker 2: who was great at Illinois, who has never proven anything

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Speaker 2: in this league, and he's making three and a half

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Speaker 2: four million dollars. I make a million dollars him. The

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Speaker 2: blood sweat equity I've had in this franchise, which it

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00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 2: still happens today, right CJ. Stroud or Bryce Young hasn't

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Speaker 2: proven anything, but people can understand it even if they're

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Speaker 2: a bust. But it's a lot difficult for good teams,

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Speaker 2: competitive teams to have guys in the locker room that

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Speaker 2: you know right away aren't good. Make it an astronomical

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Speaker 2: amount of money, So it's not perfect. More than likely

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Speaker 2: a lot of these guys are not. Most years are not.

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Speaker 2: Jamar Chase, Micah Parson's, Devonte Smith, Jalen Waddle, Panee Sewel.

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Speaker 2: Just guys that are like they're worth every penny they're underpaid.

378
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Speaker 2: Most years are like them. Half the top fifteen we'd

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Speaker 2: want to do over on that bad boy. And I

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Speaker 2: think it's made these contracts a lot easier to get done.

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Speaker 2: I've had some people DM me if it's listen. Most

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Speaker 2: of you, I'm sure know this. This is a pretty

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Speaker 2: remedial comment here, But ask me if the draft position,

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Speaker 2: if it's draft positioned purely, or does the position you

385
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 2: play also factor in like it does with franchise tags.

386
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Speaker 2: It's just draft slots, so if you're drafted too, the

387
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,160
Speaker 2: number is the number, whether you play running back. Saquon

388
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,680
Speaker 2: Barkley got what he got as number two pick, whether

389
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Speaker 2: he played running back or whether he had played quarterback. CJ.

390
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,919
Speaker 2: Stroud was getting what he gets regardless of the position.

391
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Speaker 2: So it's purely on the draft slot. And we can

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Speaker 2: argue a lot about different things the league has done,

393
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Speaker 2: some of the rules, some of you know, I think

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Speaker 2: training camp now that starts. As someone that's been going

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Speaker 2: to training camp for well over a decade, I do

396
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 2: think it's difficult. And I've never played in the NFL,

397
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Speaker 2: but I've been around enough old school players and I

398
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Speaker 2: watch football, you know, in the nineties. It feels like,

399
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Speaker 2: and I'm very adamant about this, there are way more

400
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Speaker 2: injuries now because in boxing. I'm not a big NMA guy,

401
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Speaker 2: not even the biggest boxing guy, but I followed enough

402
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 2: to know. And all you got to do is watch

403
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Speaker 2: some of these Connor McGregor documentaries or Floyd that you

404
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 2: spar leading up to the fight. Why to build callouses

405
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 2: on your body so you can take it right. You

406
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 2: use that physicality to get ready for the actual fight.

407
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 2: Football is no different now. I'm not pounding the table

408
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 2: here and say we should go back to junction boys,

409
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 2: Bear Bryant, no water breaks triple days. But for example,

410
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Speaker 2: and I'm pretty sure there's an NFL rule and a

411
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Speaker 2: lot of teams do this. I know the Niners go

412
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Speaker 2: three days on one day off and their double days

413
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 2: are not allowed. So the amount of practices you have

414
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Speaker 2: before even week one relative to what it used to

415
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 2: be fifteen twenty years ago, when I don't have the

416
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,719
Speaker 2: evidence in front of me, but I'm pretty confident there

417
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 2: are way less injuries. And it makes sense, right, you

418
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 2: practice to get good at football, you have to practice football,

419
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,400
Speaker 2: and the only way to play football is with pats.

420
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Speaker 2: That This is not baseball where I can me and

421
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Speaker 2: Pedro Martinez. It just can be US two and I

422
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 2: could get an ab just like I would in the

423
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 2: big leagues. Right, Or it's not basketball where even if

424
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 2: it's not an NBA game, if we get ten NBA players,

425
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,479
Speaker 2: we can have a five on five game, even if

426
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 2: we're just wearing our own shit, right, it can be

427
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 2: real basketball in football OTAs and even what you see

428
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 2: early in training camp has nothing to do with actual football.

429
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 2: Once you put on the pats, the run game, the fits,

430
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 2: the tackling, and honestly, no one tackles in practice anymore.

431
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 2: And I don't even blame them, but it's just considered

432
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 2: quote unquote thud for those people that you have never

433
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 2: played football. It's basically it's a little more physical, two

434
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 2: hand touch, but it's it's a hard little pot but

435
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 2: that there is no wrapping up and there's definitely no

436
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 2: taking to the ground. It's why a lot of the

437
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 2: fights that you'll see in training camp are when you

438
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 2: go to the ground. Now. Granted there were fights in

439
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: the seventies the eighties of the night. It always fights

440
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 2: in training camp. It's hot, people are edgy, you're tired

441
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 2: of hitting your teammates. But it's a lot different now.

442
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: And I'm a big believer that it's very, very difficult

443
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 2: to get ready for week one when you don't practice.

444
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 2: And I would imagine most coaches they don't really talk

445
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,400
Speaker 2: about it as much because it feels like you're making

446
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 2: excuses and anything you say to the media kind of,

447
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 2: you know, drips down to your players, so they just

448
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 2: kind of take it for what it is. But if

449
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 2: you get him off the record, if you know him personally,

450
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,239
Speaker 2: they'll all bitch and moan about it. I think it's

451
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 2: kind of a joke and they're not looking to kill anybody.

452
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 2: They understand that you've got ten million dollar fifteen twenty

453
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,239
Speaker 2: million dollar assets on your squad, right, you're paying these

454
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 2: guys a lot of money. But the way this training

455
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 2: camp works out, man, it's just I'm not trying to

456
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 2: act like some tough guy. I never played in the league,

457
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 2: but my first year in the NFL with the Eagles

458
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 2: was PRECBA and it was a pretty physical training camp.

459
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 2: And I know Kelsey's talked about this relative to the NFL.

460
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 2: Andy's training camp is still really physical. Belichick pivoted where

461
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,199
Speaker 2: he he's still a physical training camp too, but like

462
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 2: he uses that first month, it doesn't matter as much

463
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 2: anymore because his team's not as good. But back with Brady,

464
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,360
Speaker 2: they use that first month to really kind of training

465
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 2: camp because that was the time they could be physical

466
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 2: and tackle that he can kind of gauge a squad

467
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 2: who was good, who was not. You know a lot,

468
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 2: it's a guessing game. You can make pretty strong, educated

469
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 2: guesses when you're evaluating your team, but it's still pretty hard.

470
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 2: Right if you got your second string guy and they're

471
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 2: just doing thud, Like would you have made that open

472
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 2: field tackle? What do you have? I don't know because

473
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 2: you're not actually tackling, and if he's not putting that

474
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 2: spot in a preseason game, you just kind of keep

475
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: your fingers crossed. So it's a really fun time of year.

476
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: It's a very complicated time of year for the teams

477
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: to try to get the most out of every rep.

478
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 2: And depending on where you are, you know, some teams

479
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: have it better than others.

480
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: Right.

481
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 2: The weather in Seattle is not, as you know, clearly

482
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,239
Speaker 2: as warm or humid as it is in Florida, or

483
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 2: it is in North Carolina or some of these places

484
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,719
Speaker 2: like Philly or Pittsburgh. Right, So this I enjoy it.

485
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 2: I enjoy the chess maneuvers of putting together training camp

486
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 2: and trying to avoid these injuries, man, because they can

487
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 2: really derail a season. Very very excited for this one

488
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: I have. I don't even know how to introduce on

489
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 2: me either you know, a longtime NFL executive or just

490
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 2: podcast media star Mike Lombardi, How you doing, I'm good.

491
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 1: I just I think the only reason that I actually

492
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: do this is because I say what I think and

493
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: I don't really have to worry about anything. I'm too old,

494
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: So it's a good thing. You know, kind of allows

495
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: you to get away with more stuff than he could.

496
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 2: My last year working in the NFL, I remember being

497
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: at the combine and I was leaving, you know, where

498
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 2: the interviews were, and people are kind of making their

499
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 2: way out, and somehow I stumbled on the street with

500
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: this other guy and his name was Mick Lombardy. Yeah,

501
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: and we started to talk. And I didn't keep in

502
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: touch with him or whatever, but I remember the time

503
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 2: he was. He was just becoming the assistant to the

504
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 2: head coach for a guy named Jim Harbaugh. And I

505
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 2: was thinking about it today knowing you were coming on

506
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 2: and he's obviously gone on now he's the offensive coordinator

507
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 2: and he's become a coach in the league, works for

508
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 2: the Raiders. It's got to be pretty cool, you know,

509
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 2: for all the success you had and working in the league,

510
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: and to see your sons go on to be coaches

511
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 2: and that just worked for anything. I mean, the Raiders,

512
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 2: the forty nine ers franchises that you had worked for.

513
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 2: It's it's got to be a pretty cool professional accomplishment

514
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: or personal accomplishment for yourself.

515
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: No, obviously a lot of it goes to the mother

516
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: because how they raised them. But I think, you know,

517
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: when we were all in Cleveland, Steven Belichick and Mick

518
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: hung out with Brian Belichick and so all those kids

519
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: were there. And then you know Jim when we were

520
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: talking before we came on the air. Jim had a

521
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: home up in Montclair too, right near where I lived.

522
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: And so Jay Harball and my son Mick, they went

523
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 1: to school together, so they became close. So it's kind

524
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: of good to see all these kind of my son

525
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: Matthews now with the Raiders, all these kids that kind

526
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 1: of played together in the backyard all kind of now

527
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 1: become NFL coaches, which is kind of neat, you know,

528
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: and all of them have paid their dues. You know,

529
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: Mick started out as a graduate, basically started out as

530
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: an intern in New England and worked his way up.

531
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: Matthew started out as an intern in Cleveland, went to

532
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: work for Bobby Petrino. So it isn't like you'd say, well,

533
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: you know, they got jobs because of their dad. No,

534
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: they had to actually go through the process. You know,

535
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: they got in the door, but they had to stay.

536
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: They had to get through the door.

537
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 2: How can you think they coached and didn't want to

538
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 2: scout because.

539
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: I told him to coach, because coaching you can't lie.

540
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: You can't lie coaching, your tape tells you what you do.

541
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: In personnel, you can always make something up. I didn't

542
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: like that guy, you know, I like that guy. They

543
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: didn't listen to me. It's all full of a bunch

544
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: of you're always right, and so the only way you

545
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: can control your occupation is to coach. And I made

546
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,719
Speaker 1: that really clear to them. I didn't coach, and I

547
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: lived through the personnel world where people took credit for

548
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: things that didn't do, people gave blame for things that

549
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: they did. It's kind of a really a very third

550
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: world country kind of life. You know, there's always revolutions

551
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: and counter revolutions with an organization. So I wanted them

552
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: to coach.

553
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 2: I've had this kind of thing that football has really

554
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 2: become kind of Wall Street on grass with the amount

555
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: of money. Now that's right down the street from me,

556
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: Jonathan Gannon, who was a coordinator for two years, about

557
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 2: a ten million dollar home. Ten million is This isn't

558
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,239
Speaker 2: Belichick or Andy Reid. This is a guy, first time

559
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 2: had coach, who's been a coordinator for two That's type

560
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 2: of money that's flowing around. Yeah, obviously your son's working it.

561
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 2: Now you've seen it, you get well compensated being a coach.

562
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 2: Do you think that's influenced and changed the sport from

563
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: a coaching slash GMing standpoint of just the craziness behind

564
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 2: the scenes because of how much money's on the line.

565
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: Now, well, there's you know, your job securities less right

566
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: because people, even though they're paying you more, they have

567
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: money to fire you. You know, when I first started,

568
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: the cap was there was no cap. I think the

569
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: TV contract was given sixteen million per club. You know,

570
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: now one player gets sixteen million. You know, Kristin Kirk

571
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: makes eighteen million as a receiver. So not how much

572
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: the league's changed. Look, you know when we interviewed Belichick,

573
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: he had his very first interview in nineteen eighty nine

574
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: as a head coach. He didn't get the job. Bud

575
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: Carson did. But we interviewed him at the Hilton, which

576
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: was the old Hilton and Mobile Alabama. Ernie of Corsi

577
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: and I and he had been a coordinator, won a

578
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. He couldn't he could barely get head coaching interviews.

579
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: And here's Jonathan Gannon who basically gets a head coaching job.

580
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: Why off of two years of being a coordinator, which

581
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: for me watching his tape was less than spectacular. Like,

582
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: I didn't see it, you know, I didn't see it.

583
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: I saw Shane Steiken's tape be pretty good. The way

584
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: they handled Jalen Hurts and the way they developed that offense.

585
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: I got that. I'm not saying he's ready, but I

586
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: think we're putting guys in jobs they're not even ready

587
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: to be coordinators, and we're giving them head coaching jobs,

588
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: and then we're mad because we're not ready for the job.

589
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: How's that ever going to change, though, because now the

590
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 2: heype machine talk about this a lot on your podcast,

591
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 2: is just out of control. The agents have so much juice,

592
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: and let's face it, the owners. You just saw the

593
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: amount of money every team got, what three seventy five well,

594
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: the salary caps two hundred, so even once you pay

595
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 2: everyone else in the ability, they have so much freaking money.

596
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: It's just outrageous.

597
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,959
Speaker 1: Buying yachts, they're buying They're not buying boats, they're buying yachts.

598
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: I mean, did you ever think that was possible back

599
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: when you first got in the league in the eighties,

600
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: The amount of money.

601
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: I mean, who knew, who could have envisioned that? But yeah,

602
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: you knew they were gonna make it. I think to me,

603
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: the owners get influenced by they listen to a lot

604
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: of their wrong people oftentimes, and they don't really understand

605
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: what their core business is, and so they let people

606
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: advise them on their core business, and so it falls

607
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: into a you know, let's hire this guy, let's hire

608
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: that guy. And now that they're paying so much money

609
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: to coaches, I mean the fact that Jonathan Gannon's is

610
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: you know is became a head coach or I'm not

611
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: picking on Jonathan, but I mean, like to me that

612
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: you don't have to serve in a ship to get

613
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: a head coaching job. You know, I say this on

614
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: my pod all the time. You call three first downs

615
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: in a row, you're a head coaching candidate. Don Martindale

616
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: or Jonathan Gannett. Who's more ready to be a head coach?

617
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: Martindale couldn't even get an interview with Arizona, right and so,

618
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: but Martindale's too old, doesn't look the part. A lot

619
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: of this is political.

620
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: You have you miss being in the NFL at all?

621
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: No, not at all, No, I mean I have my NFL.

622
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: I mean I can watch games, I watch tape, I

623
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: study the game. Basically, what I do for Vison is

624
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: the same thing I did when I was in the league.

625
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: I break down games. I handicap teams. You could say

626
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: it's handicapped for the vetting market, but you know, I go, Okay,

627
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: Cincinnati's good in this area. Here's their strengths, here their weaknesses.

628
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: Here's where you should attack them. The same thing I

629
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: did when I was in the league. I enjoy that,

630
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: so I still have that where I now I don't

631
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: have to worry about am I you know, what does

632
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: this guy think or who's evaluating me? Once I wrote good,

633
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: iiron genius. I gained personal freedom and I just didn't

634
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: really I didn't need to be validated by somebody who

635
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: was above me to say, oh, he knows what he's

636
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: talking about or he doesn't.

637
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't mean.

638
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: That in an arrogant way. I mean it in a

639
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: free of freedom way. You know, where it was an

640
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: independence It felt really good.

641
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 2: Well, one thing, one big reason you've always resonated with me,

642
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 2: and I've done this. Once I left the league, I

643
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: didn't really care every aspiration to go back. You just

644
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: kind of say what you feel and you talk. You know,

645
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 2: you see hard knocks. They think it's inhumane to show

646
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: a player being cut now, and whether that's correct or not,

647
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: players are cut. This is the point of training camp

648
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: to go from ninety to fifty three, Like that's that's

649
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 2: the whole point of August is to figure out your team.

650
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: So we just are we just not acknowledging what's really

651
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: going on because we know once you go to those

652
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: personnel meetings how the conversations actually go. That's the way

653
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: coaches and gms actually talk. So it's just I think

654
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: clearly one reason you've had a lot of successes. You

655
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 2: speak like it's actually spoken, and that's hard to find.

656
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 2: You see these former gms now on TV. They don't

657
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 2: say anything. It's like, well, that's not how you actually talk.

658
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: What are we gaining?

659
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I just finished this last book called

660
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: Football Done Right, and I wrote a chapter about television,

661
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: you know, and it was a really educational chapter for

662
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: me because when I was researching the chapter, I wanted

663
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 1: to really understand the impact of television on the NFL

664
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: and truly kind of get to what made the game

665
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: where it went from sixteen million per TV contract to

666
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: where it is today. And I think it comes down

667
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: to three people. Mostly, it comes down to Howard Cosell,

668
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,719
Speaker 1: Brett Musburger and Jimmy the Greek on the NFL today

669
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: and then the great John Madden and Howard Cosell really

670
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: turned the tide because what people don't realize is Monday

671
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: Night football was not something any no network wanted. CBS

672
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: was offered Monday Night Football first and they said, no

673
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: chance us. We've got gun Smoke, We've got Andy Griffith,

674
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: We've got these We've got all these great programs. We

675
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: have no interest.

676
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: Is that because those shows? Is that because those shows

677
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: are doing twenty thirty million people watching, So they didn't

678
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 2: even want it.

679
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: Was thirty three percent of the market share on that night.

680
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 1: Monday Night was appointment television. So nobody was going to

681
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 1: miss Andy, nobody was going to miss gun Smoke, Nobody

682
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: was going to miss that show. They were sitting in

683
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: their chairs with their TV guy watching it. No DBR.

684
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: Then NBC had Rowan and Martin in the Dollars Stay Show,

685
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: and they said we want nothing to do with it.

686
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: ABC said we'll take it. For sixteen million for three years,

687
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: and rude Arloch said, we got to put somebody in

688
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: the booth who's going to say something, who's going to

689
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: stir some interest. And he put Cosell in there, a

690
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: former attorney who was more known for being Muhammad Ali's

691
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 1: friend than he was anything. And as he said, he said,

692
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: if we see it, we have to say it. And

693
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: so the first night Cleveland playing the Jets and Municipal Stadium,

694
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: the ABC switchboard lit up. Fifty percent of the people

695
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: like Cosel, tty percent hated them, but everybody watched and

696
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 1: it grew the game, and it made Monday night football

697
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 1: must watch television. Whereas Andy and gun Smoke and rowing them,

698
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: they all faded away. And then when Brent came in

699
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: with the NFL Today and the Greek and they started

700
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: talking about betting but not talking about Betty, all of

701
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, now that really blossomed. So for me,

702
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: the point of the story is when I read that

703
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,959
Speaker 1: and when I was researching Cosell, we don't have enough

704
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,439
Speaker 1: people basically seeing what they say. I mean, we got

705
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: somebody yesterday, I mean saying Nick Saban's legacy is in

706
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: jeopardy this year. Are you serious? Are you serious? I mean,

707
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: you know Bill Belichick's on the hot seat. Great fire Belichick.

708
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 3: You're gonna get a better coach than Belichick, you know,

709
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 3: like seriously, Like we have things that are being said

710
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 3: that nobody really puts any facts behind them.

711
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 2: Let's talk about that Bill specifically, because saving things stupid.

712
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 2: We all acknowledge. And you've seen him firsthand for decades.

713
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: I worked for a guy whose career was made Pat

714
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: Hill because of Bill elevating him, and Pat is I mean,

715
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 2: never stopped talking about the lessons and my football base

716
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 2: was on stuff that he saw from your time in Cleveland.

717
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 2: But is there You know, coaches, sometimes it's whether it's

718
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 2: a message go stale or just he's been there a

719
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 2: long time and the success, the bar that him and

720
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: Tom set was so high it's impossible to get to.

721
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 2: Is it fair conversation to be had? They're never going

722
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 2: to upgrade Belichick, but maybe, and I know you're close

723
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 2: to him, is it understandable because obviously he's a better

724
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 2: coach than John Harball or Mike Tom and guys that

725
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: never feel like they're on the hot seat. But is

726
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 2: this just one of those that's an inevitable breakup that

727
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 2: just happens in coaching, or.

728
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: Whenever you have a lot of success, everybody wants to

729
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: claim the success right And so you know, we saw

730
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: Sante Samuel come out the other day and screen that

731
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: you know, Belichick has nothing to do with the winning

732
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: in New England. It was all grat which is the

733
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: most ridiculous thing of all time, you know, because the

734
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: last time I checked, Brady didn't play defense. And in

735
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: that first suit Bowl they won against the Rams, they

736
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 1: beat this, they stopped the greatest show on turf. So

737
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: in the last suit Bowl they won against the Rams,

738
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: they score thirteen points. So I'm not sure if Sante

739
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: watched those games, so we'll see. But to me, I

740
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 1: think whenever you have a lot of success, people want credit.

741
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: Whenever you have a lot of expectations, people want to

742
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: kind of keep turning. But then you look at the

743
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: San Antonio Spurs. I mean, have they won the last

744
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 1: three years?

745
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: No? I don't think they've won like seven.

746
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: So they just rewarded Popovich with a huge contract bed

747
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 1: to the highest pay coach in the league is Monty Williams.

748
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 1: Because they know that there's going to be some downtimes.

749
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: Because of the way the system is set up, it's

750
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: hard to dominate. It's hard to have a great team

751
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: all the time. So it makes you in New England

752
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: so rare. I mean, we're in an era of a

753
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: cap We're in era of the worst team picks. I

754
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: mean when you go through the when you go through

755
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: the Patriots draft selections of where they picked, I think

756
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 1: this year was the highest pick with Gonzales until they

757
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: traded down, that they've picked since you'd have to go

758
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: back to the Richard Seymour draft. Think about that for

759
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: a minute. It's the highest they've picked. And the system

760
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: is built on you know, losers get the high picks,

761
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: winners get the low picks, and so yeah, I mean,

762
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: I'm not disputing they're frustrated in New England. I think

763
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: he certainly has a good team. He'll turn it around.

764
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: I think last year, and I've said it on my pod,

765
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: was a mistake to allow Matt Patrician to run the offense.

766
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: I think everybody kind of knows that. But I think

767
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: more than all of this, you know, if they would

768
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: have had Pat Hill to coach the offensive line up

769
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: there in New England, it might have been able to

770
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 1: hide some of the problems because Pat's are really good

771
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: line coach. They didn't have that, and I think that's

772
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: probably the biggest issue of all.

773
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 2: Well, now they're kind of in a position, right they

774
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,959
Speaker 2: could be better with Bill and their offense could be better.

775
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 2: We know they're going to be good on defensive special teams.

776
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 2: But the division, if rogers, you know, just incrementally makes

777
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 2: them more competitive. We know the Bills are solid, and

778
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: you could argue that Dolphins, even if Tool were to

779
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 2: get hurt, just how good their skill guys are with

780
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 2: Mike White, could just keep them afloat. Unlike last year,

781
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 2: that division you could compete to win nine games and

782
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: obviously the AFC not make the playoffs. It's going to

783
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 2: be very, very difficult.

784
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: It's hard, yeah, I mean, but look, you know the

785
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:26,919
Speaker 1: reason we're in this business because it's hard.

786
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

787
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: Nothing makes it easy, there's no you know, it's like

788
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: John Kennedy said on the campus of the Rice. You know,

789
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 1: we go to the moon because it's hard, not because

790
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: it's easy. You win a championship because it's hard. I mean,

791
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: it's going to be a challenge, and I think I

792
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: think they have a team look, we know this. For

793
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 1: all the talk about offensive football, for all to talk about,

794
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: you know, the skill players, the game comes down to

795
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: who can stop the opponent and who plays the most physical.

796
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's what it comes down to.

797
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 1: And on paper, no one's won a championship on paper.

798
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: If that were the case, Texas would win the now

799
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: Championship every year, or yeah, you know, I mean so

800
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: or Buffalo should have at least two Super Bowls by now.

801
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: You got to play the games. I mean, look, the

802
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: Jets have won two two in Robert Salads years there,

803
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: They've won two AFC East Games. It's all they won.

804
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: I mean, they haven't proven that they have. They've been

805
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: the thirteen playoff game since nineteen sixty eight when Namath

806
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: declared them, we're going to win it thirteen. They have

807
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: been no playoffs in twenty ten. Like that just doesn't

808
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: happen overnight. You've got to get good before you get great.

809
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 2: Do you think the Dynamics there could be a little

810
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,320
Speaker 2: out of whack given how desperate they were for Rogers.

811
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 2: The hack at clearly another you saw you hire him,

812
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 2: basic lyad for Rogers. It feels like it's a very

813
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 2: slippery slope. It's either going to work or it could

814
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 2: unravel quick.

815
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean I think it's gonna I think

816
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: we're gonna they're going to go through like any good team,

817
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: they're gonna go through hard times, right, So they're going

818
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: to struggle and they're going to find out what character

819
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,479
Speaker 1: is the team, how tough is the team? And look,

820
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 1: every team has holes their offensive line. Can Makai Becton

821
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 1: play right tackle? Does he want to play right tackle?

822
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 2: You know?

823
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: Can you really count on Dwayne Brown to be your

824
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: left tackle? Lakeland Tomlinson did not play good at left

825
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: guard last year, So, like, like, I don't know how

826
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: it's all going to work out. But they're not like

827
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: a lock. I mean, saladz said that one of the

828
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: six of the seven best teams in the league. I

829
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: missed that memo, Like I missed that, you know, And

830
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: so do you know many turnovers they created defensively in

831
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: the last eight games of the season. Take a guess,

832
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: this elite defense that.

833
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: Everybody talks about, not many, not many?

834
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: Two in eight games? They created two turnovers in eight games.

835
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not that that's not on the elite level.

836
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons why Washington was eight and

837
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: eight they couldn't create turnovers. So I think we look.

838
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: Do I think the Jets are better at no question.

839
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:53,959
Speaker 1: Do I think they'll be a former lob opponent, Yeah,

840
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: no question. But they got to play the games to

841
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 1: find out, and coaching matters in the end. NFL, how

842
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: you get your team ready and how your team improves

843
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: during the year matters. Yeah.

844
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 2: You know, speaking of coaching, you've been around Brian day Ball.

845
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 2: Clearly he had a fantastic season last year for New York.

846
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 2: You know, speaking of television, you know you turn on

847
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 2: the Four Letter Network every former player saying pay him,

848
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 2: pay M, paym, pam PAM. I look at Saquon Barkley,

849
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 2: and if he plays for this ten million dollars over

850
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: a six year career, he will have averaged eight million dollars.

851
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 2: I mean there are some players right making eight hundred

852
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 2: grand that probably should be making fifteen million. He's a guy. Okay,

853
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 2: maybe he should make a couple million more, but it's

854
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 2: not we're talking ten to fifteen percent. So when he's

855
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 2: when I see him talking like he's getting totally screwed. Yeah,

856
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 2: you're off a little bit. But I you're in this,

857
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 2: You're in the same vicinity, and were they getting screwed

858
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 2: when he was m ia although when they were paying

859
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 2: him a premium those years when he was injured. It

860
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 2: goes both ways. What's your overall thought on this situation

861
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 2: and just the overall standing of the running backs not

862
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 2: being happy with their standing in the league.

863
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: Well, it's a supply and demand thing, John, right, I mean,

864
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: it's collectively bargained, so you know Barkley. To me, where

865
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 1: I have a disagreement with Barkley is he doesn't impact

866
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: the passing game. The average is under six yards of catch.

867
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: Like I would pay Austin Eckler, I would have paid

868
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 1: Josh Jacobs. Josh Jacobs is a force in the passing game.

869
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,720
Speaker 1: Austin Eckler deserves to get paid more money. I don't disagree.

870
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: I would rather pay Austin Eckler more than pay Keenan

871
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 1: Allen the slot receiver. I would rather pay Josh Jacobs

872
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: more than fifteen million a hunter rentro But the systems

873
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: kind of backwards. I don't disagree with that. But Barkley

874
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: average is under six yards of catch. You know it's

875
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,439
Speaker 1: it's Barkley should be angry at the Giants because they

876
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 1: gave Jones all this money when we all know you

877
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 1: and I both know their offense has to work around Jones,

878
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 1: not through Jones. And so you know Barkley's not working

879
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,479
Speaker 1: for charity either. Now we don't know what he turned down, right,

880
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: we don't know how much money he could have turned

881
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: out a ton of money, but we don't know what

882
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: he turned out. He's just not happy that the position

883
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: is to get paid. Where is it going up? But

884
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: once again, that's supplying the man. I mean, Kareem Hunt's

885
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: sitting out of there. Aaron Jones is a better back

886
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: than Saquon Barkley in terms of all the things he does.

887
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: He took a pay cut.

888
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: I think Josh Jacobs a better player at Saquon Barkley.

889
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: Question is would oh, I would too, But he didn't

890
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 1: have the media behind him. You don't have the New

891
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: York media behind him. He was to the second pickover

892
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: all in the draft and then he wasn't a great player.

893
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: For his first three years. He didn't flash. I mean

894
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: last year he had three hundred and forty carriedes. He

895
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: averaged almost five yards of carry. I mean, the guy

896
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: was disruptive in the passing game. He got stronger as

897
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: the game went on, played hurt. I think the guy's sensational.

898
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: But you know he's in the parking lot waiting to

899
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: think he's got his deal done. That's how close it was,

900
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: and it just didn't. He didn't take the deal. His

901
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: agent I apparently said don't take the deal, or somebody

902
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 1: told him not to take the deal. But we don't

903
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: know what that deal is though, Like we don't know what.

904
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: Like we're saying they're underpaid, we're saying they're not get respected.

905
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: But these the two guys turned down deals. What did

906
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: they turn down?

907
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 2: Do you think if the Giants would have let them

908
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 2: both hit free agency and just tag neither of them,

909
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,240
Speaker 2: would Daniel Jones have got a big offer somewhere.

910
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: No, of course not. That's what I said on my podcast.

911
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: And so when Daniel Jones comes back to you, because

912
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 1: you're going to be the highest bidder amount of while right,

913
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: and you and I both know quarterbacks don't leave to

914
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: go somewhere else. They want to stay with their team.

915
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: They want to stay where they're comfortable. They don't just

916
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: all I mean, Kirk Cousins left because he couldn't stay right,

917
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: and he wanted to get out of that toxic environment.

918
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 1: But for the most part, they want to stay. And

919
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: so I would have said to I would have just

920
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 1: let them both. I would have easily let them both. Well,

921
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: I would see. I don't think you can be a

922
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: general manager in the National Football League today and be

923
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: scared of free agency. Like I don't leave you to be

924
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: scared of them. I think you've got to be realistic

925
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: enough to say, Okay, that guy's liable, that guy's going

926
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: to get paid. Where most teams make big mistakes, or

927
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 1: when they get a guy for cheap, Okay, they bring

928
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: guy in like Jarrett Stidham. The Raiders bring Jarrett, stick

929
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: him in, he plays two games, one really good game

930
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: against the Niners. Well, they trying to sign them back.

931
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: They still remember that nobody was after him when they

932
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: got him. And then he hits the open market and

933
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: he's got six or seven offers out there. See, that's

934
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: when you get a little bit of a problem because

935
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: you remember the guy before you brought him in. But

936
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 1: when you know a guy who you when you know

937
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: who the guy is, why are you scared of free agency?

938
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: Here's what we'll pay. It's not the NBA where if

939
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: you don't pay, if you don't pay Bradley Deal, you

940
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,760
Speaker 1: don't get a good player, like there's other players out there.

941
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 2: Is that a learned skill that you know Walsh or

942
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 2: Belichick to be almost numb to the emotion with guys,

943
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 2: or is that something that they have pretty early? Just

944
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 2: that's the way I think about it.

945
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 1: They had it early because they both had a sense

946
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 1: of I don't want to call it arrogance, but they

947
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: had a sense of everybody's replaceable except three or four guys,

948
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: you know. And the only reason Walsh went out and

949
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,879
Speaker 1: fought and traded for Steve Young was because you know,

950
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 1: Joe got hurt and Bill was very good at understanding.

951
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,240
Speaker 1: Like Bill would have been that Bill been around Russell Wilson,

952
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 1: he would have traded Russell Wilson because he kind of

953
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: Bill could see when a quarterback's coming to an end.

954
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking about quarterbacks when they're coming to the beginning.

955
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 2: Justin Fields is a guy I know you're not super

956
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 2: high on. I'm starting to. I don't know if you

957
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: saw he had a quote somewhere on a podcast last

958
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 2: couple of days that he guaranteed he's gonna throw for

959
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 2: four thousand yards and the history of the franchise, no

960
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 2: one ever has no Granted they're not getting Montana young

961
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 2: far of Rogers aren't playing for the Bears, but still,

962
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 2: I mean, do you think your expectations for him are

963
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 2: not high? Correct?

964
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: Well, I mean he's never demonstrated he's a thrower of

965
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: the football. I mean he's a one looking run guy

966
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: and then simple past. Their problems from his mechanics fall apart.

967
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: He's got a very flimsy deliver and you know it

968
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: can go on that It's like a golfer. You can

969
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: go on the practice range and not have a bad swing,

970
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: but when you get to a tournament and the pressure

971
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: is on, that's that bad swing might show up again.

972
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: And so his decision making, I mean it's one look

973
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: and go. And the way people defend him now is

974
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: if they keep them in the pocket and say you

975
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: beat me at quarterback, you play quarterback from behind the

976
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: center and beat me. See if you can do that

977
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: it it becomes a harder game. And you know he

978
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: has to run and move and once people take that away,

979
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: I mean, he's turned the ball over at an unbelievable rate.

980
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 1: He's been sacked ninety one times. Now, that's not all

981
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: because they got a shitty line. He owns the ball,

982
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: he doesn't make quick decisions. It doesn't process through him.

983
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 1: Will they get better? I hope so. But to go

984
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: from where you are to four thousand, that's too big

985
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: of a lead.

986
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 2: How do you factor in when you're in the GMC

987
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 2: guy circumstances around him? Sam Donold's a good exis sample right,

988
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 2: had a very, very tough beginning to his career, and

989
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 2: then right at the end of Carolina really kind of

990
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 2: showed signs of life. And clearly the forty nine ers

991
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 2: saw something and guys like Fields, for example, because's easy

992
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 2: to argue, well, he's had shitty stuff around him. Where

993
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 2: you go Trey Lance hasn't played that much. But it

994
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,760
Speaker 2: doesn't get any better, right coach talent? Is it usually

995
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 2: just well I like this guy coming out, so I'm

996
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 2: always going to like him.

997
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 3: Is that that's the way it is? But I think

998
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 3: you have to be realistic, right. Parcels used to say

999
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 3: this all the time, and we don't get this in

1000
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 3: the league because we go over the top. But there's

1001
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 3: probably only two quarterbacks that don't have to be managed

1002
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 3: in the league.

1003
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: And I know that word, when you say being managed,

1004
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: is kind of a condescending turn towards quarterback. But quarterbacks

1005
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: are like baseball stadiums. You've got to fit your team

1006
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: around the quarterback. And a baseball team wants to build

1007
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: its team to the park, right you know, if you Fenway,

1008
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 1: you got a short left field, you know, you build

1009
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,959
Speaker 1: your team around the ball. Quarterbacks, you've got to build

1010
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: your team around the skill set of the quarterback. And

1011
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: Kyle does that really well. So when Kyle watches Sam Donald,

1012
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: he doesn't see what Sam Donald doesn't do. He sees

1013
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: what Sam Donald can do in his scheme. Throw the

1014
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: ball inside the numbers, you know, get the ball out

1015
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 1: of his hand, get it quick to somebody. It's the

1016
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: same thing with Garoppolo. Here's what we'll do with him.

1017
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 1: Here's how we'll build a team around Garoppolo. And I

1018
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: don't think teams do that enough. I think what Philly

1019
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: did with Jalen Hurts was really, really good. They just said, Okay,

1020
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: we can't really run drop back pass, and we don't.

1021
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: If we go to a drop back pass game with

1022
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts, it's not going to work. We're not going

1023
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 1: to be able. He'll hold the ball, he'll stare down

1024
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: the receiver. It won't work. But if we run a

1025
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 1: six pack offense where he's the main ball carrier or

1026
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: he's in the running game and we run play action,

1027
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,280
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it opens a lot of doors

1028
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 1: and he becomes a better player, right, And I think

1029
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 1: that's what we miss, and too many people want to

1030
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: run a scheme and not fit the player. I think

1031
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 1: Baltimore is an example, like Lamar Jackson should be under

1032
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: center more because Lamar Jackson is a disruptive runner, and

1033
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: when he's under center, you don't know if he's gonna

1034
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: run or if he's gonna run overpass it, And you

1035
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: don't know if he's gonna run a boot leg or

1036
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,399
Speaker 1: if he's gonna run a naked And when he runs

1037
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: a bootleg, somebody's got to go out there with him,

1038
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: and he's that's the only play in football where the

1039
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: defense where the quarterback blocks somebody, right, So when he

1040
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: so you've got to build an offense around the skill

1041
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 1: set of the quarterback. And if you don't do that,

1042
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: and as a personnel director, you've got to build a

1043
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: team around that like Baltimore needs. Baltimore needs big receivers

1044
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 1: with extended wingspan because Lamar is gonna throw the ball

1045
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: and they're gonna have there's gonna be a lot of

1046
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 1: times where you're gonna have to make play. But when

1047
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: you bring in little receivers like Arizona Side has Hollywood

1048
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: Brown and Rondell Moore and they got to Midge it

1049
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 1: at quarterback, Like how.

1050
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense? You know, I know you've

1051
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 2: been fan of Lamar for a lot since he was

1052
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 2: coming out their offensive coordinator. Now it's one thing to say,

1053
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 2: it's another thing we'll see what it actually looks like.

1054
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 2: But keeps talking about spreading it out, throwing it more.

1055
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 2: Doesn't that negate his great skill of movement and running around.

1056
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 2: Why would you.

1057
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,959
Speaker 1: Why would they do that because the media is telling

1058
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: them to do that. The media is telling them they

1059
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 1: need to do that. You got the form the worldwide

1060
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: leaders saying, you know, they got those experts on there

1061
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: that tell you what they need to do.

1062
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 3: You know, one of the experts doesn't even think Joe

1063
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 3: Montana is the top five quarterback, So why would you

1064
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 3: pay attention?

1065
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: Like seriously? Like like they tell you this like no,

1066
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,959
Speaker 1: Like Lamar should be under center. It should be play action.

1067
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: You put Lamar with Kyle, What do you think his

1068
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: numbers would be? If you put Lamar and he had

1069
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: Deebo Samuel on great slant inside because as great as

1070
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 1: Debo is, Debo's done an outside the number receiver. Deebo's

1071
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: an inside the number receiver, and he's great with the

1072
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: ball in his hands. Right, So Lamar, that's what Lamar needs,

1073
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,879
Speaker 1: It's what aj Brown is. That's what made Hurt so good.

1074
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 1: They got to receive the fittest skill set Nemon. Baltimore's

1075
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: got these little guys. I know, they got Bate Man

1076
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: and now they got Zay Joe. I mean, say, you

1077
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 1: know the kid.

1078
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 3: Flowers, you know, but you've got to fit You've got

1079
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 3: to fit the receivers to the quarterback.

1080
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 2: You've told a story when you were in Cleveland. I

1081
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 2: think you interviewed for the offensive coordinator job, but it

1082
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 2: was Kyle and I think you you told the owner

1083
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 2: and like this, this guy should be a head the

1084
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 2: head coach. When you think back talking to him the

1085
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 2: first time you ever talked to him, and what really

1086
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 2: stuck out when you spoke with him his.

1087
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: Dad called me on the phone. I know his dad well,

1088
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: I love his dad. His dad said, you should interview

1089
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 1: Kyle for the OCW. I remember when Kyle's in Washington,

1090
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: he's getting killed in the press, partly because of the

1091
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 1: owners leaking stuff to the media, the former general manager,

1092
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: you know, the whole rg th thing, right, So we

1093
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: bring him in and Mike Petton's the head coach, all righty,

1094
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 1: And he he goes in the interview and he starts

1095
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: talking about his offense. And I'm sitting in the room

1096
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,080
Speaker 1: and he knows how to coach every single position, but

1097
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: he wants from every single position what he's looking for

1098
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 1: from every single like he went through the entire thing offensively, defensively,

1099
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 1: what gives them trouble. And it was the most impressive

1100
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:13,919
Speaker 1: interview that I've had, you know, other than like when

1101
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 1: we talked to Josh McDaniels at the you know, when

1102
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: he was in New England. The same thing. I mean,

1103
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 1: those guys that understand how to move the football, they

1104
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: understand the whole game. They know what they know, how

1105
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 1: everything ties together. They just don't know the they just

1106
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 1: don't know the play. They know the offense. He was

1107
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 1: by far, he easily should have been the head coach easily.

1108
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 2: When you look at his quarterback situation. If I give

1109
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 2: you the hypothetical that Darnold beats out Lance. So Lance

1110
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 2: is the third string quarterback, assuming Party's okay and all

1111
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: signs point to him on track. If you were in charge,

1112
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 2: would you keep him like you expect him to be

1113
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 2: on the team come week one? If he's the third

1114
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 2: string quarterback.

1115
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think let Lynch or Adam Peters are

1116
00:54:58,200 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: gonna want to trade them. They don't want to have

1117
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: to swallow that pill, right, you know, because they're the

1118
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 1: ones that really wanted them to do it. So I

1119
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 1: don't think they'll I think they'll keep them. But there's

1120
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 1: no way he can be the two because if you're

1121
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: Kyle whoever it, Party is the starter, you want somebody

1122
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 1: similar to Party that's going to go in there. If

1123
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: you have to put him in the middle of the

1124
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 1: game and you got to go, you don't want to

1125
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 1: change to where you've got to change the offense a

1126
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: little bit. Where Okay, now we need to go more

1127
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: because this whole conversation, do you remember how it all

1128
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: started about why they wanted to draft Trey Lance because

1129
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: Kyle's offense was getting stayed. Remember that that was the

1130
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: rhetoric that they needed to change the offense and do

1131
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: all that. So they just had like a record year

1132
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: last year offensively, once somebody got in a quarterback who

1133
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: knew what they were doing besides Baroccolo, they moved the

1134
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:47,879
Speaker 1: ball because you just.

1135
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 2: Need to get to complete passes. It's how that complicated

1136
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:51,479
Speaker 2: the cat guys.

1137
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 1: Kyle makes the position really easy. Throw it to this guy.

1138
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: Make it so that you throw it to this guy

1139
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 1: while he's on the move because they'll run with it

1140
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: after the catch and you'll get all the arms.

1141
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll get you out of here on this h

1142
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 2: They're not around anymore, and I think they're two of

1143
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 2: the more historic guys in the history of the sport.

1144
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 2: Walsh and now Davis. You've been around him. What do

1145
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 2: you think they would think of just twenty twenty three

1146
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:15,439
Speaker 2: the National Football League?

1147
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:19,359
Speaker 1: Well, I mean Bill would have would have embraced it.

1148
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: He would have been divergent and thought. He would have

1149
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: looked at everything and would have come up with a

1150
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: zake to the sag. Al would have been, you know,

1151
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:36,919
Speaker 1: obsessed with how to stop the running quarterback that would

1152
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: have because bootlegs and naked drove him crazy, and this

1153
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: RPO stuff would have drove him crazy. Because Al was

1154
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 1: a defensive coach at HARK. He loved defensive football, and

1155
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: I think both men would have been would have relished

1156
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 1: in the evolution of the game because they both loved

1157
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: the game so much.

1158
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 2: Do you think it's a little unfair how people remember

1159
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 2: him kind of for that last especially my you know,

1160
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 2: people like forty five and younger that the last five

1161
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 2: six years is kind of sad.

1162
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 1: I mean, he wasn't, you know, it was. It was

1163
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 1: a part in his life where I think there were

1164
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: a lot of things going on for him. You know,

1165
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: he was not really adaptive to change. He didn't want

1166
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:14,800
Speaker 1: to change, and he didn't trust anybody. And the older

1167
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 1: he got, the less he trusted people. When he listened

1168
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: to a lot of wrong people, and he kind of

1169
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: fell into a comfortable boy area. He just it's just

1170
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 1: challenging when someone's as dominating and as great as he was,

1171
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: and how they just leave kind of easily. And that

1172
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: was a hard thing. In my new book, I talked

1173
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 1: glowingly about him about signing Lance Altworth, about you know,

1174
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: being part of the tree, the Earl Boake tree that

1175
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: he was in, you know, in the press box for

1176
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: Sid Gilman when the Chargers were playing in San Diego.

1177
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got Sid Gilman on the sideline. You

1178
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 1: got Joe Mondro's line coach, Al Davis is the offense coordinator,

1179
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: and Chuck Noles defense cordator. That's the press box. Wow.

1180
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 1: And Jack Faulkner, the former director of player Personnel, is

1181
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 1: on the sidelines too. That's pretty impressive. That's all they happened.

1182
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 2: What do you think he would have told you if

1183
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 2: when your son came walking into your office in nineteen

1184
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 2: ninety nine, you said he's going to be the offensive

1185
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 2: coordinator for your Raiders one day.

1186
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't have believed it, but I mean, look,

1187
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: it's a great opportunity for him.

1188
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 2: What would Alice said, Oh oh, he.

1189
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: Would have just said. He would have said the same

1190
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: thing he used to say to me. At some point, kids,

1191
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 1: you're going to have to play in the game.

1192
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 2: Well, Mike, I appreciate the time. Don't spend too much

1193
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 2: time at the beach. Football is right around the corner.

1194
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 2: Listen forward to listening to you on the GM shuffle

1195
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 2: and have a great day.

1196
00:58:41,040 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: Thanks John, I appreciate you the volume