Speaker 1: Episode four seventy six, How lack of purpose drives your
Speaker 1: impulse spending with Jordan Grummitt.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and live your life.
Speaker 3: Here your hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen, my
Speaker 1: name is Jill, and today we are talking with our
Speaker 1: really good friend Jordan. He's known as Doc G in
Speaker 1: some circles, but he is such a good friend and
Speaker 1: amazing person, and he's got a new book out called
Speaker 1: The Purpose Code, and so we're talking about how lack
Speaker 1: of purpose it plays into our impulse spending.
Speaker 3: I love his perspective on things, and we were even
Speaker 3: able to chat with him a little bit more after
Speaker 3: the podcast because his insight has been helpful to me
Speaker 3: on multiple occasions. Just personally, I think there's so much
Speaker 3: alignment in our messaging, but different words and different ways
Speaker 3: of getting at it and describing it. So if you've
Speaker 3: needed some fresh perspective, this is definitely a good one.
Speaker 1: That's the great thing about language, I think, especially even
Speaker 1: in personal finance, but outside of it as well, A
Speaker 1: lot of it is overused and comes with a connotation
Speaker 1: that either gets lost in the overuse or misunderstood. And
Speaker 1: so I think Jordan gives kind of new perspective on
Speaker 1: old language and refreshes the need and importance for it.
Speaker 3: But first, this episode is brought to you by Today.
Speaker 3: That's right. There's no time like the present to seize opportunities,
Speaker 3: say yes and lean into spontaneity, like coming to our
Speaker 3: live and in person event at Tumbolow Books in Saint Petersburg,
Speaker 3: Florida tonight at seven pm. We're talking about our book
Speaker 3: by What You Love without going broke, hanging out with people,
Speaker 3: doing a book signing. We still don't even know what
Speaker 3: we're going to write in the books when we sign it,
Speaker 3: but we'll come up with something. Let us know what
Speaker 3: you want us to write in your book. If you
Speaker 3: are anywhere near the Tampa Bay area, join us tonight
Speaker 3: at Tumblow Books in Saint Pete again at seven pm.
Speaker 3: We're going to be doing a Q and A and
Speaker 3: a signing. It's going to be lots of fun. It
Speaker 3: feels so exciting for us to get to be live
Speaker 3: and in person and talking about these things and seeing
Speaker 3: faces and just hanging out and celebrating, So if you're
Speaker 3: around you don't have any plans, come join us tonight today,
Speaker 3: seize the opportunity. And also the book is available, so
Speaker 3: definitely order that thing because it would help us. Thanks. Also,
Speaker 3: when you hear us reference that this event might be
Speaker 3: happening tomorrow, January fifteenth, that is in accurate information. We
Speaker 3: originally scheduled it for the fifteenth, but instead it is
Speaker 3: now January fourteenth at Tumblow Books in Saint Petersburg, Florida
Speaker 3: at seven pm. So we probably mention it again at
Speaker 3: the end of this episode. Just disregard the fifteenth, replace
Speaker 3: it with the fourteenth, assume that instead of tomorrow, it's
Speaker 3: today because today's the best. We love it for to
Speaker 3: be today instead of tomorrow. So January fourteenth is the
Speaker 3: correct date. And so sorry for any other mistakes throughout
Speaker 3: this episode that you pick up on, but we just
Speaker 3: don't have the time to edit all of the rest
Speaker 3: of the audio to make it accurate. So take this
Speaker 3: nuggative truth with you through the rest of the episode.
Speaker 3: It's happening on the fourteenth. Thanks.
Speaker 1: All right, so we definitely will link to the last
Speaker 1: time Jordan was on the show in the show notes.
Speaker 1: But if you want some other similar episodes, we've got
Speaker 1: episode four fifty four how to Say No to impulse purchases,
Speaker 1: and then episode three seventy eight psychological Reasons why we
Speaker 1: impulse by Those are really good. You can either search
Speaker 1: for those titles in your podcast player with the phrase
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends, or if you're on our website, you can
Speaker 1: search the episode number. And Jordan, what we love about
Speaker 1: him is he is a hospice doctor who's pursued financial
Speaker 1: independence and decided that he didn't love everything about medicine.
Speaker 1: The only thing he loved about medicine was his hospice work,
Speaker 1: and so this has impacted him so profoundly. He's written
Speaker 1: two books as a result. He hosts the Earn and
Speaker 1: invest podcast, which we talk about spending and he talks
Speaker 1: about earning and investing. So they're definitely two shows that
Speaker 1: you should have in your lineup. But his perspective on
Speaker 1: purpose with like big p Purpose and Little Pea Purpose
Speaker 1: was such a refreshing take on the subject and I
Speaker 1: can't wait for you to hear it.
Speaker 3: Let's do it, Jordan.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Frugal Friends podcast.
Speaker 4: Jen and Jill I am so happy to be here
Speaker 4: and have a really great conversation.
Speaker 3: We're so thrilled to have you. It's always such a
Speaker 3: good time talking with you. You've got such a plethora
Speaker 3: of knowledge and experiences that blend together to be so
Speaker 3: helpful for our whole personhood, certainly our finances. So we're
Speaker 3: excited to explore that blend today with you.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: People always laugh at me when I say I do
Speaker 4: personal finance and I'm a hospice doctor. Those two things
Speaker 4: most people don't feel they fit together, but in a
Speaker 4: lot of ways, I think they.
Speaker 1: Do, Yeah, which I love. And I loved how you
Speaker 1: talked about it in your first book, Taking Stock, which
Speaker 1: was like just an education and we'll link the we
Speaker 1: talked with Jordan prior to his first book. We'll link
Speaker 1: that episode. But it did it I having my my
Speaker 1: father died when I was sixteen, and we had hospice
Speaker 1: in there, and it brought up like all of the
Speaker 1: feelings and the thoughts and the considerations that you talked
Speaker 1: about and really set me on the course to where
Speaker 1: I am now. And so now I'm so excited to
Speaker 1: see how you've expanded on that in your new book.
Speaker 1: That just happens to launch on the same day as ours.
Speaker 1: It's a good day.
Speaker 4: I tell you, it's a good day for bestsellers January for.
Speaker 1: Best I hope, I hope.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The purpose code. So let's start start out with purpose.
Speaker 1: How do you define purpose? And how important is it?
Speaker 1: Especially like with our money, because we talked so much.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we talk about money. Let's bring
Speaker 1: it back to the money.
Speaker 4: So it's interesting. Most people think purpose is this really big,
Speaker 4: huge thing and either we find it and live a wonderful,
Speaker 4: special life or we don't find it and everything is lost.
Speaker 4: So we make it really high stakes. And part of
Speaker 4: the reason we make it so high stakes is colloquially
Speaker 4: purpose people think is the why of doing what we do.
Speaker 4: And I really try to change that definition. Instead of
Speaker 4: making purpose the why, what I really say is purpose
Speaker 4: is about the here and now, it's about the present
Speaker 4: and future, and it's really just actions. And so when
Speaker 4: I talk about purpose, I'm talking about filling our life
Speaker 4: with these actions of doing things that fill us up.
Speaker 4: And it's that simple. And I think this is one
Speaker 4: of the issues of why purpose causes so many people anxiety,
Speaker 4: is because we make it this really big difficult, hard
Speaker 4: to define thing. And because it's so hard and difficult,
Speaker 4: we often look other places to try to figure out
Speaker 4: what our purpose should be and guess what. And this
Speaker 4: is the connection to money. Most of the people trying
Speaker 4: to teach us what purpose should be are trying to
Speaker 4: make money off us. And so if you look at
Speaker 4: social media, and if you look at TikTok and Instagram,
Speaker 4: and if you look at advertising and marketing, they're trying
Speaker 4: to show us a version of purpose that might look
Speaker 4: like six pack abs, it might look like wearing the
Speaker 4: nicest clothes. It might look like traveling to all sorts
Speaker 4: of other countries. It might look like running an eight
Speaker 4: figure business. But the problem with those versions of purpose
Speaker 4: is they're asking us to co opt their version of purpose.
Speaker 4: But they're doing it because they want more followers or
Speaker 4: they want you to buy what they're selling, and so
Speaker 4: money plays a huge role, and they're trying to convince
Speaker 4: you you can buy your way into purpose. Like if
Speaker 4: you just buy the good running shoes, all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: you're going to be a runner. If you just buy
Speaker 4: the best clothes all of a sudden, you're going to
Speaker 4: be successful. And in corporate America and killing it, and
Speaker 4: so money is intimately tied to purpose, often because other
Speaker 4: people want us to tie the two together so they
Speaker 4: can sell it something.
Speaker 3: It also seems, in my understanding and coming to this word,
Speaker 3: I do have a visceral reaction to it that I
Speaker 3: should probably dig into and then read.
Speaker 4: Your book about.
Speaker 3: But it's also can seem tied to the way that
Speaker 3: we earn as well, Like I have had trouble with
Speaker 3: this concept of purpose because I have switched careers, not
Speaker 3: just jobs, but the things that I do in my life,
Speaker 3: which has kind of thrown me a bit for a whirlwind.
Speaker 3: And okay, well, like has my purpose change? Am I
Speaker 3: not living into what I'm like? It seems to be
Speaker 3: so tied to the way that we've understood it, like
Speaker 3: our identity and the things that are innate within us
Speaker 3: we've kind of been born to do. Like how you're
Speaker 3: describing this like pie in the sky concept. So I
Speaker 3: don't know if any of that is aimed at reality
Speaker 3: or your understanding of it, but it sounds like you're
Speaker 3: breaking it down even smaller. I'm wondering if who could
Speaker 3: give some more examples of like, Okay, if it's not
Speaker 3: such a lofty thing. What is it? How could we
Speaker 3: understand this better?
Speaker 4: So I think the easiest way to understand it, and
Speaker 4: I break it down in the book is basically there's
Speaker 4: studies that show that having a sense of purpose in
Speaker 4: life is associated with health, happiness, and longevity. There are
Speaker 4: tons of great studies scientifically proven purposes related to these things.
Speaker 4: On the other hand, their studies also show that people
Speaker 4: get up to ninety one percent of people at some
Speaker 4: point in their life have what's called purpose anxiety, meaning
Speaker 4: this idea of finding their purpose frustrates them, causes them
Speaker 4: to be depressed and anxious. And so what I talk
Speaker 4: about in the book is this idea that we probably
Speaker 4: get purpose wrong, and instead of being one thing, it's
Speaker 4: probably two things. And one of those things is associated
Speaker 4: with all that anxiety, and the other is probably more
Speaker 4: associated with the happiness, health, and longevity. And so I
Speaker 4: call them big P purpose and little P purpose. And
Speaker 4: so most of us through society told that we are
Speaker 4: supposed to be searching for big P purpose. This is
Speaker 4: big audacious purpose. In America, we say if you can
Speaker 4: think it, you can build it. So it's not just
Speaker 4: becoming a doctor, it's curing cancer. It's not just having
Speaker 4: a successful business, it's being an eight figure businessman or
Speaker 4: making a billion dollars. It's not just running for the
Speaker 4: local school board, it's becoming president of the United States.
Speaker 4: And the problem with this type of purpose, this big, audacious,
Speaker 4: supposedly life defining purpose, is it's really easy to fail.
Speaker 4: It's very scarcity mindset oriented because most people don't have
Speaker 4: the skill set, the genetics, the luck, and they don't
Speaker 4: happen to be the right people at the right time
Speaker 4: saying the right things. And if you really want this
Speaker 4: big audacious purpose, you've got to be all of that.
Speaker 4: So most of the time we don't have agency over it,
Speaker 4: and it's easy to fail. And so it's very much
Speaker 4: all or nothing kind of winner takes all. Like if
Speaker 4: you're running for president, either win or you lose. We
Speaker 4: just saw that in this recent election, and so this
Speaker 4: leaves people feeling bad. What I think is a bet
Speaker 4: better version of purpose is what I call little P purpose.
Speaker 4: So big P purpose is all about the big audacious goal,
Speaker 4: and so it's very goal for it focused. Little P
Speaker 4: purpose is all about the process and not about the goal.
Speaker 4: So it's just engaging in things that you enjoy the
Speaker 4: process of doing regardless of what you accomplish, and so
Speaker 4: instead of being all or nothing, it's kind of all
Speaker 4: or all. It's very abundance focused. And so I think
Speaker 4: this is the big difference of why purpose feels so
Speaker 4: like setting to us is because a lot of people
Speaker 4: think it's so big we can't grasp, whereas I think
Speaker 4: little P purpose is very easy to grasp. Well, what
Speaker 4: could you love doing? And let's start building a life
Speaker 4: of purpose around it. So I often say you don't
Speaker 4: find purpose, you create it. It is true you have
Speaker 4: to have an idea of what some of those inklings,
Speaker 4: those beckonings in your life are, of things that light
Speaker 4: you up, but then you build a life of purpose around.
Speaker 3: Them, really helpful distinction for a person who might have
Speaker 3: that big P purpose in mind, this is what there
Speaker 3: aim is at. How might that show up then in
Speaker 3: their finances and the decisions that they make. How can
Speaker 3: that impact spending? If that maybe is more so the aim.
Speaker 4: So when it comes to big P purpose, I think
Speaker 4: a lot of times, first and foremost people try to
Speaker 4: buy their way into purpose. So they try to, you know,
Speaker 4: kind of buy all the stuff, right, Because if I'm
Speaker 4: going to be, you know, a number one podcaster, right,
Speaker 4: or if I'm going to be a major League baseball player,
Speaker 4: or if I'm going to be you name it, I've
Speaker 4: got to buy all the stuff and the accouterments that
Speaker 4: go with that. And so a lot of times we
Speaker 4: spend lots of money because we think we can buy
Speaker 4: our way into becoming something as opposed to the way
Speaker 4: we really do these things is we do it. But
Speaker 4: the other thing is, I think part of that big
Speaker 4: P purpose is often really false narratives about money. We
Speaker 4: set up money as a mirage and we make money
Speaker 4: our big P purpose. So it's like once I get
Speaker 4: to a million dollars, or once I get to financial independence,
Speaker 4: or once I get to a billion dollars, and we
Speaker 4: spend a lot of time focusing on those things, but
Speaker 4: they don't really fill us up. And a lot of times,
Speaker 4: if we're lucky enough to get there, because not everyone
Speaker 4: can get to a billion dollars, but if we're lucky
Speaker 4: enough to get there, we realize that it was kind
Speaker 4: of a mirage and we don't know our why, Like
Speaker 4: what is that money going to do for us? I
Speaker 4: think a lot of people don't realize that money is
Speaker 4: a tool, and it's one of many tools. So it
Speaker 4: can help us free up our time so that we
Speaker 4: can then pursue this little p purpose, but in it
Speaker 4: itself can't be purpose. And I think a lot of
Speaker 4: people get stuck on that, and then once they get there,
Speaker 4: if they're lucky enough to hit their goal, a lot
Speaker 4: of times they feel empty and hollow, and the easiest
Speaker 4: thing to do is double down and say, well, I'm
Speaker 4: just going to double that goal, as opposed to thinking
Speaker 4: more about what would really fill me up.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had that after we paid off debt and I
Speaker 1: did it so fast and I thought, Okay, we're debt free.
Speaker 1: Now that's going to be this, you know, solve my problems.
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to be able to spend money. And like, inside,
Speaker 1: I still had too much guilt to spend money. So
Speaker 1: I just transitioned it to trying to retire early. And
Speaker 1: instead of looking at what is inside me that is
Speaker 1: causing this guilt and shame around spending and the fear
Speaker 1: of money that's doing this like causing me to hoard.
Speaker 1: Instead of thinking about that stuff, I just followed what
Speaker 1: other people on the internet were doing. That we're also
Speaker 1: not thinking about this stuff. And Jill said this the
Speaker 1: other day. It was not the nirvana that was promised
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 4: What I love about that example is it really actually
Speaker 4: describes the difference between meaning and purpose. And I always
Speaker 4: say that happiness is made up of both meaning and purpose.
Speaker 4: And a lot of people think meaning and purpose are
Speaker 4: the same thing, But in my definition, meaning is something different.
Speaker 4: Meaning is about our past, and it's about our thoughts
Speaker 4: about what we've been through. So meaning is the story
Speaker 4: we tell ourselves about ourselves. And part of happiness is
Speaker 4: learning to tell yourself heroic stories about yourself, like you
Speaker 4: had these difficulties things, these traumas, these worries, and you
Speaker 4: overcame them and therefore you got to a better place.
Speaker 4: So meaning is kind of a journey of being enough.
Speaker 4: And what you were just describing there is not having
Speaker 4: a sense or feeling of enough, And it was a
Speaker 4: meaning problem. But if you think making money is going
Speaker 4: to fix that, if you think purpose is going to
Speaker 4: fix that, like I'm going to make making money or
Speaker 4: paying off debt or achieving things my purpose, you can't
Speaker 4: really purpose your way to enough because it's more of
Speaker 4: a meaning problem. And I bet what you found is
Speaker 4: you had to go back and look at some of
Speaker 4: those narratives about your life and look at some of
Speaker 4: those stories you were telling yourself about yourself and rewrite
Speaker 4: them and say, Okay, you know, I had debt and
Speaker 4: it was a problem, and I had fears of not
Speaker 4: having enough money, But actually I was just a normal
Speaker 4: kid growing up and had some stressful situations around me,
Speaker 4: and I reacted this way to protect myself and to
Speaker 4: feel okay. But now you're older and more comfortable, you
Speaker 4: don't have to do that anymore.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I love this the way that you talk about
Speaker 1: purpose because it's very similar to how when we talk
Speaker 1: about values based spending, we talk about values as higher needs,
Speaker 1: and the highest need on Maslow's hierarchy is self actualization,
Speaker 1: which we kind of talk about as purpose, but so
Speaker 1: often I think that term is kind of misrepresented as
Speaker 1: maybe like transcendence or this like big p purpose right
Speaker 1: when really it's and I had to look this up,
Speaker 1: it's truly just like knowing one's true self and feeling
Speaker 1: like you're being able to be creative and innovative and
Speaker 1: an active participant. So how can we cultivate that actively
Speaker 1: in our life? Like how can we creatively get after
Speaker 1: that little P purpose, can we expect to fill it
Speaker 1: one hundred percent?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: How does that work?
Speaker 4: So here's the thing. Little P purpose is very, very
Speaker 4: very abundant. It is everywhere. The problem people have is
Speaker 4: a they think they're supposed to be shooting for a
Speaker 4: big PA purpose, so they don't even look at little
Speaker 4: pea purpose. That's one problem. But if you can get
Speaker 4: past like those big audacious goals and look for process
Speaker 4: oriented person purpose, a lot of people say, well, how
Speaker 4: do I find that? And I always say, you don't
Speaker 4: find it, you build it and create it. But it
Speaker 4: is true that you need to anchor it on something.
Speaker 4: And I call these purpose anchors. These are the inklings
Speaker 4: or the beckonings, the things that light you up that
Speaker 4: you're going to build a life of purpose or little
Speaker 4: pea purpose around. So the bigger question is how do
Speaker 4: I find these purpose anchors? And I talk about this
Speaker 4: a little bit in the book, but they're really three
Speaker 4: or four good ways to think about it. Let me
Speaker 4: go through a few of them. I'm a hospice physician,
Speaker 4: so at the end of life we talk to patients
Speaker 4: and a lot of times we do what's called a
Speaker 4: life review. It's a series of questions we take them
Speaker 4: through that helps them review and examine their life and
Speaker 4: ask the big questions what was important to me? What
Speaker 4: were my biggest successes? What were my biggest failures? Well,
Speaker 4: one of those questions is what do you regret never
Speaker 4: having the energy, courage, or time to do. And here's
Speaker 4: the thing. Regret and a dying person is really disappoint
Speaker 4: because you don't have agency to fix it anymore. You're
Speaker 4: too tired, you don't have enough life left. You know
Speaker 4: this is not the time to do that. On the
Speaker 4: other hand, what about someone like us who's not on
Speaker 4: our deathbeds, who's healthy. Regret actually can be flipped around
Speaker 4: and turned into a purpose anchor. So, for instance, I
Speaker 4: knew years ago that if someone gave me a death
Speaker 4: sentence of a week or a month, the one thing
Speaker 4: I would have really regretted is not traditionally publishing a book.
Speaker 4: I knew that years ago, and so it behooved me
Speaker 4: to turn that into a purpose anchor and then start
Speaker 4: building a life of purpose around that, which is what
Speaker 4: I did with my first book. So regret is a
Speaker 4: really great way to start thinking about purpose anchors. Another
Speaker 4: great way is to start thinking about the joys of childhood.
Speaker 4: So I tell people, think about your room when you
Speaker 4: were a kid, What were the trophies, what were the posters,
Speaker 4: what were the drawings. A lot of times kids basically
Speaker 4: fill most of their time doing really purposeful activities, and
Speaker 4: no adult has told them they can't anymore. So they
Speaker 4: go play Cops and Robbers, or they play back basketball,
Speaker 4: or they do whatever they do. They lose track of time,
Speaker 4: they don't come home in time for dinner. Right They're
Speaker 4: in a state of flow of enjoyment, and they're not
Speaker 4: really even looking towards goals, like they're not expecting to
Speaker 4: achieve anything. They just want to enjoy themselves. Kids really
Speaker 4: get purpose, and then of course they grow up and
Speaker 4: take on careers in school and all this important stuff
Speaker 4: and drop all these things they loved. So a lot
Speaker 4: of people can think back to their childhood and it's
Speaker 4: a great place to search for purpose anchors. For instance,
Speaker 4: when I was a kid, I loved baseball cards, and
Speaker 4: I don't have time for it now because I have
Speaker 4: other purpose anchors other things in my life. But every
Speaker 4: time I'm on the internet and I see something about
Speaker 4: baseball cards, my eyes light up and I get really excited,
Speaker 4: and I almost always read it. So I know from
Speaker 4: childhood that baseball cards are a great purpose anchor for me.
Speaker 4: So we talked about regrets, We talked about joys of childhood.
Speaker 4: Another really good one is what I talked about my
Speaker 4: last book, The Artists Subtraction. A lot of people have
Speaker 4: jobs that they don't love, but if you really push them,
Speaker 4: they'll say, I hate ninety five percent of my job,
Speaker 4: but there's this five percent I love. It's like I
Speaker 4: work in a restaurant and I'm tired of serving people.
Speaker 4: But you know what, every Thursday morning, for two hours,
Speaker 4: I do the stock and I go through all the
Speaker 4: shelves and I write everything down, and I see what
Speaker 4: we have and I see what we don't have, and
Speaker 4: I love that part. Sometimes when you subtract out the
Speaker 4: things you don't like about something, you're left with what
Speaker 4: you love. And so for me, I was getting really
Speaker 4: tired of being a doctor, but I loved hospice medicines.
Speaker 4: So when I subtracted everything else out, it was the
Speaker 4: one thing I would do even if I wasn't being
Speaker 4: paid for it. And so for me, that was a
Speaker 4: really great purpose anchor.
Speaker 1: And last but not.
Speaker 4: Least, if regret and subtraction and the joys of childhood,
Speaker 4: if none of that is sparking any version of a
Speaker 4: purpose anchor in you, then you use the spaghetti method.
Speaker 4: You basically throw a bunch of things against the wall
Speaker 4: and see what sticks. You try things you normally wouldn't try.
Speaker 4: You talk to people you normally wouldn't talk to, maybe
Speaker 4: a volunteer for something that makes you a little nervous inside,
Speaker 4: and if you spend that day and you actually enjoy yourself,
Speaker 4: that might be the beginning of a purpose anchor. So
Speaker 4: I think there are a lot of ways to actually
Speaker 4: build purpose. And what I've actually found is that most people,
Speaker 4: when you really press them, know what they love. They
Speaker 4: know what they dream about when they're about to fall
Speaker 4: asleep in bed, what they think about. Most people actually, really,
Speaker 4: if they give themselves permission, can identify. But they've been
Speaker 4: told that that's not serious enough or important enough, or
Speaker 4: not good use of their time, or for that matter,
Speaker 4: not good use of their money, and so they they
Speaker 4: don't pursue those things.
Speaker 3: My mind is going in all sorts of different directions
Speaker 3: with all these questions you're asking and examples that you're giving.
Speaker 3: I can think of a couple of things for myself too.
Speaker 3: But I think, you know, when I think about an
Speaker 3: anchor and how you're describing something to build off of
Speaker 3: and make every day, I can't get away from. Okay,
Speaker 3: does this need to be provisionary for us? Then? Like
Speaker 3: you know, if I think about an anchor for myself,
Speaker 3: it to me means something that I then am able
Speaker 3: to engage in pretty regularly. But would that then be
Speaker 3: to the exclusion of these other things or do I
Speaker 3: then need to go find work that is aligned with
Speaker 3: those things? Like how do we part it all out?
Speaker 3: Like the little pe from like the way that we
Speaker 3: earn money too.
Speaker 4: So here's what I say, first and foremost, I think
Speaker 4: we have too many rules around purpose. So purpose can
Speaker 4: be lifelong, but it can also be something you do
Speaker 4: for a few weeks. You can have one purpose or many.
Speaker 4: Your purpose can affect the world and feel like it's
Speaker 4: bringing great social change, but it certainly doesn't need to.
Speaker 4: There are really no rules. And what I found is
Speaker 4: when people identify these purpose anchors, they might identify ten
Speaker 4: or fifteen, and then it even gets exponential because each
Speaker 4: purpose anchor we can actually build purposeful activities around I
Speaker 4: call these climbs. So I love baseball cards, Well, I
Speaker 4: could start collecting baseball cards again. I could go to
Speaker 4: baseball card conferences. I could start a blog or podcast
Speaker 4: about baseball cards. I could join the you know, Willy
Speaker 4: Mays fan club for people who still love Willy Mays
Speaker 4: even though he retired long ago. I mean, there are
Speaker 4: so many different things I could do, so many different
Speaker 4: purposeful activities. But here's the thing. It doesn't matter how
Speaker 4: many purpose anchors you have. You choose one or two
Speaker 4: of them, and you enjoy them until you don't anymore,
Speaker 4: and then you go find another anchor or do a
Speaker 4: differentfer climb. But here's what I want to specifically talk about.
Speaker 4: Because you brought about something important, You're like, Okay, I
Speaker 4: identify these anchors. I start building these climbs, these purposeful activities.
Speaker 4: But should that take over every aspect of my life
Speaker 4: or should that just be my free time. Here's my
Speaker 4: answer to that. It's a little bit of a long one,
Speaker 4: so I apologize. Oh boy, this is my version of
Speaker 4: what it looks like to win the game. Here's what
Speaker 4: winning the game looks like from the day you're born
Speaker 4: to the day you die. And I know this because
Speaker 4: being a doctor and a hospite doctor, I see this
Speaker 4: all the time. You have a certain amount of time,
Speaker 4: and you have no idea how much that's going to be.
Speaker 4: And yes, you can like exercise and wear a seatbelt
Speaker 4: and do some things to increase the amount of that time,
Speaker 4: but generally it's kind of set. And here's the problem
Speaker 4: with time. You can't buy it, you can't sell it,
Speaker 4: you can't trade it. Basically, it can't be commoditized. Time
Speaker 4: passes no matter what, and you have zero control over.
Speaker 4: But one thing you have control over. The one thing
Speaker 4: you have control over is what activities you're busy doing
Speaker 4: as time passes. So I love to look at our
Speaker 4: lives as a series of time slots, call them days, months, years,
Speaker 4: whatever you feel good about. And so winning the game
Speaker 4: is filling up as many of those time slots as
Speaker 4: possible with purposeful activity that fills you up, and getting
Speaker 4: rid of as much and as many things as you
Speaker 4: loathe as possible. And so when we start as adults
Speaker 4: and we get jobs, we like can look at our
Speaker 4: calendars every month for the rest of our lives, and
Speaker 4: if we're winning the game. We are slowly increasing the
Speaker 4: things that we love and getting rid of the things
Speaker 4: that we loathe, and we have lots of ways to
Speaker 4: do this. I like to talk about tools and levers.
Speaker 4: Tools are things like money. Money is a fabulous tool.
Speaker 4: If I have lots of money, I can pay someone
Speaker 4: to clean my house and therefore Saturday Sunday, I don't
Speaker 4: have to clean my house all day and I can
Speaker 4: spend that time doing something different. I'm winning the game
Speaker 4: because I can put some purposeful activity into those time
Speaker 4: slots that was before not purposeful activity or activity I loathed.
Speaker 4: And that's you know, increasing that calculus of your and
Speaker 4: winning the game. But you have lots more tools besides money.
Speaker 4: So even if you're twenty two and have very little money,
Speaker 4: you also have your time, your energy, your youth, your communities,
Speaker 4: your passions. So there's tons of tools there. But we
Speaker 4: also have levers. So they're three levers. One is the
Speaker 4: joy of addition. The other is the art of subtraction
Speaker 4: and the lastest substitution. And so if you're twenty two
Speaker 4: and you're working sixty hours a week and you're like,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm so busy. Your privilege you're a doctor,
Speaker 4: you're financially independent. Of course you can talk about purpose.
Speaker 4: But I'm twenty two and working six hours sixty hours
Speaker 4: a week. There's no way I can talk about purpose.
Speaker 4: I would say, well, you have some tools that I
Speaker 4: don't have. At twenty two. You have more energy, you
Speaker 4: have your youth. You probably don't have a mortgage, you
Speaker 4: probably don't have kids yet, you might not be married,
Speaker 4: you probably don't own a home. So you know what,
Speaker 4: even though you're working sixty hours a week, probably on Sunday,
Speaker 4: you can spend three or four hours doing something that
Speaker 4: lights you up, that's exciting to you. Maybe you turn
Speaker 4: it into side hustle, maybe you don't, but either way,
Speaker 4: you've used one of your tools, your youth and energy,
Speaker 4: and then you've used a lever, which is the joy
Speaker 4: of addition, to add in three more hours of purposeful activity.
Speaker 4: And again you're winning the game just a little bit
Speaker 4: more because you've added in something you love. Even if
Speaker 4: you haven't gotten rid of a job you don't like.
Speaker 4: But if you happen to be lucky and you do
Speaker 4: that thing that you love for three or four hours
Speaker 4: on a Sunday and it happens to make a little money.
Speaker 4: Maybe you can start working forty hours a week instead
Speaker 4: of sixty hours a week. And so this is our job.
Speaker 4: It's to use our tools and our levers to look
Speaker 4: at our calendar every few months and slowly increase the
Speaker 4: number of things we love that feel purposeful to us
Speaker 4: and get rid of the things we loathe. And so
Speaker 4: if you start that in your twenties, it may take
Speaker 4: you a decade or two decades, but eventually you'll probably
Speaker 4: transition your job more into something you love because you're
Speaker 4: going to use the joy of addition in the artists abtraction. Right,
Speaker 4: So let's say I work in that restaurant and I
Speaker 4: hate serving customers, but I love doing stock every Thursday morning. Well,
Speaker 4: maybe one day I go to my boss and say, hey,
Speaker 4: we've got ten restaurants and I love doing stock, and
Speaker 4: Lily over there hates doing stock, but she loves taking
Speaker 4: care of customers. Why don't I travel from restaurants to
Speaker 4: restaurants to restaurant all week and just do stock all
Speaker 4: day because that's something I love. And boom, You've used
Speaker 4: the art of subtraction, the joy of addition. You've used
Speaker 4: some other of those levers and tools, and now you're
Speaker 4: spending more time doing things that feel purposeful. And so
Speaker 4: this is what I think we have to do. This
Speaker 4: is how we win the game. But it's not immediate.
Speaker 4: It's not like, oh, I found my purpose and I'm
Speaker 4: going to quit my job and go for a passion
Speaker 4: play and find a passionate job. You might be lucky,
Speaker 4: but most of the time it's not that straightforward. It
Speaker 4: takes more time. Takes time to figure out where your
Speaker 4: purpose anchors are and what you love, and then you
Speaker 4: kind of slowly transition your life to look better and
Speaker 4: better every year.
Speaker 3: How often would you say that we'd be auditing this
Speaker 3: or that even those anchors might shift.
Speaker 4: I think the anchors can shift any time. And here's
Speaker 4: the thing again, there's no rules. If you get tired
Speaker 4: of doing something, or if that thing doesn't light you
Speaker 4: up anymore, maybe I decide baseball cards are a purpose anchor,
Speaker 4: and I start buying and selling them, and I start
Speaker 4: going to these conferences in these shows, and I'm doing this,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, dude, I don't have enough time to write.
Speaker 4: I'm too busy. I can always ditch that anchor and
Speaker 4: go to a different purpose anchor. Which for me is
Speaker 4: writing and communicating. The question is does it fill you up?
Speaker 4: And so how often should we be doing this and
Speaker 4: looking at our calendars. I don't know. I think we
Speaker 4: almost continuously do it anyway, because you know, when we're
Speaker 4: at work and we're deciding we don't like things and
Speaker 4: we start getting burned out, we're doing that in real time.
Speaker 4: But I think it's worthwhile every few months to really
Speaker 4: kind of open up your calendar app and look at
Speaker 4: four or five weeks and kind of go through and said,
Speaker 4: love this, hated this, load this, love this indeterminate. And
Speaker 4: what I love to see for everybody, especially if they're
Speaker 4: listening to the financial tips and tricks and learning from
Speaker 4: people like you or teaching them how to be frugal
Speaker 4: and good with their money. What I'm hoping they that
Speaker 4: they find is eventually they get so financially good that
Speaker 4: they start having way more control over the calend. Like
Speaker 4: I'm fifty one years old, I look at my calendar
Speaker 4: and everything on it is something I chose and I
Speaker 4: put there, and that I can cancel that day if
Speaker 4: I decided I don't want to do that. Why, well,
Speaker 4: A I've done a lot of work on my sense
Speaker 4: of purpose and little PEP purpose. But the other thing
Speaker 4: is then I built up my finances next to it,
Speaker 4: and so I have this really great tool which is money,
Speaker 4: which helps me not do things that I loathe, And
Speaker 4: so they work together. And I think that's why it's
Speaker 4: very important to not only think about purpose, but to
Speaker 4: get really clear on your money and try to understand
Speaker 4: what it can and can't do for you.
Speaker 1: This is so important. I think what you've just like
Speaker 1: just gone all through and I had like follow up questions,
Speaker 1: but then I just got like so wrapped up into
Speaker 1: it anymore.
Speaker 3: Well, well I got the question. Then you have touched
Speaker 3: on this a bit. But I'm wondering if there's more
Speaker 3: that you have to say about as we do this
Speaker 3: and we become more clear on little P purpose being
Speaker 3: what we can go after on a regular basis, and
Speaker 3: we can feel more fulfilled in these kind of meaningful ways,
Speaker 3: what can we expect to see with kind of our
Speaker 3: everyday spending behaviors. I know you've kind of talked about
Speaker 3: the larger pieces of earning and maybe job flexibility, but
Speaker 3: for our listeners who are maybe even still in debt payoff,
Speaker 3: struggling with impulse spending. Maybe some low income feeling like
Speaker 3: they've got more month than paycheck, Like, what could this mean,
Speaker 3: the pursuit of little pe purpose mean for them with
Speaker 3: their money.
Speaker 4: I think it could mean actually everything, because we use
Speaker 4: spending often to soothe ourselves. And why are we trying
Speaker 4: to soothe ourselves? Because things feel disjointed. We're going to
Speaker 4: these jobs we may not like, but we feel trapped
Speaker 4: because we need to make the money because we have
Speaker 4: to afford our lifestyle. And we are searching for joy.
Speaker 4: We're searching for the inner sense of doing things that
Speaker 4: make us feel full, and we don't know what those
Speaker 4: things are, and we don't know how to find them,
Speaker 4: and we're stressed out and busy, and one of the
Speaker 4: easiest things to do is to take out your charge
Speaker 4: card and buy that thing to eat, or buy that
Speaker 4: pair of shoes, or buy that car. And what I
Speaker 4: think happens is when you get really clear on purpose
Speaker 4: in your life, you start doing these things that light
Speaker 4: you up first and foremost, you find that you don't
Speaker 4: have to buy your way into it. You can just
Speaker 4: show up and do the thing and that's enough. Right, So,
Speaker 4: if you want to be a great runner, You don't
Speaker 4: have to buy great running shoes or a great tracker,
Speaker 4: have the greatest clothes. You've got to run. You've got
Speaker 4: to actually do the thing. If you want to be
Speaker 4: a writer, you don't have to write a big writing
Speaker 4: coach or take really expensive courses on writing or do
Speaker 4: any of those things to become a writer. You don't
Speaker 4: even have to publish a book.
Speaker 3: To become a writer.
Speaker 4: You have to write. So you realize that it's really
Speaker 4: the action specifically, and not the spending. The other thing
Speaker 4: is you find that when you do spend a lot
Speaker 4: of times you're spending is more in line with your values,
Speaker 4: because when you're really clear on what feels purposeful to you,
Speaker 4: that's when you start saying, well, is spending this money
Speaker 4: worthwhile or not? I could go out and buy that
Speaker 4: thing that watch that really looks good on my arm,
Speaker 4: But you know what, I love hiking, and my hiking
Speaker 4: group is going on a hiking trip, and it's going
Speaker 4: to cost me a little extra to take the plane
Speaker 4: to get there. This is going to be a really
Speaker 4: great trip with people I love, and I'm gonna spend
Speaker 4: five days feeling alive in nature. And you kind of
Speaker 4: say that aligns a hell of a lot more with
Speaker 4: me and my lifestyle and what makes me happy than
Speaker 4: buying that watch or even buying that car or buying
Speaker 4: that super expensive house in the super expensive neighborhood. You
Speaker 4: start getting really clear about what feels like purpose to
Speaker 4: you as opposed to what the world is telling us
Speaker 4: purpose should look like. And I think that just means
Speaker 4: that we start aligning our spending much more with our values.
Speaker 3: We couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1: No, we love that.
Speaker 3: And you know what else we agree on, and we
Speaker 3: love the bill of the week.
Speaker 2: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 2: entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name
Speaker 2: is William. Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, maybe your
Speaker 2: car died and you're happy to not have to pay
Speaker 2: that bill anymore. That's bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton, this
Speaker 2: is the bill of the week, Jordan.
Speaker 1: You know, every week we yell at our guests and
Speaker 1: our listeners to share with us their favorite bill for
Speaker 1: the week, because we know everybody has so many favorite
Speaker 1: bills all the time, but just what's yours just this week?
Speaker 4: So this week my favorite bill is a person. This
Speaker 4: is a bill in my mastermind group. And Bill does
Speaker 4: me the favor of calling me out every time I
Speaker 4: do something he doesn't like. But it is a favor
Speaker 4: because he's one of the people in my life who
Speaker 4: is utterly clear. So he listens to every podcast episode.
Speaker 4: He looks at every piece of content I put out.
Speaker 4: And if he thinks that I soft peddled something, if
Speaker 4: he thinks that I didn't present enough of the sides,
Speaker 4: he tells me. But he does it. It's funny. He
Speaker 4: does it in a little bit of an abrupt way,
Speaker 4: but he's a really loving, caring guy. And so that
Speaker 4: Bill called me out on something this week. But I
Speaker 4: do believe that if people care enough to criticize and
Speaker 4: to do it on a regular basis and engage, that
Speaker 4: those people really do care about you. And so that
Speaker 4: is my bill of the week Bill from my Mastermind group.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bill, Wow, Jordan accountable.
Speaker 3: Bill sounds like you're just putting in the time. Is
Speaker 3: this his little people?
Speaker 1: I enjoy this Bill in my life.
Speaker 4: So Bill is one of those personal finance experts that
Speaker 4: doesn't put any content out, but he can tell you
Speaker 4: everything about tex law. He can tell you everything about
Speaker 4: safe withdrawal rates. He can tell you everything about all
Speaker 4: this stuff, and so the problem is it's really easy
Speaker 4: for him to contradict what you say.
Speaker 1: I love that people who know it that don't just
Speaker 1: want to look like they know it. They're so confident
Speaker 1: that they know it that they don't need to look
Speaker 1: like they do.
Speaker 4: So all of us need a bill like that in
Speaker 4: our lives.
Speaker 3: I know, if you all are listening, if you have
Speaker 3: a bill who's putting in the time and giving you
Speaker 3: the good critique, or a bill you don't mind paying,
Speaker 3: or a bill that you stopped paying, or your bill
Speaker 3: part from your name is Bill.
Speaker 1: If you're listening Frugal.
Speaker 3: Friends podcast dot com slash bill, leave it for us.
Speaker 3: We can't wait. And now it's time for the lightning ground.
Speaker 4: I know, right dancing around trying not to get hit.
Speaker 1: I know there's such realistic sound effects. I'm so sorry
Speaker 1: we scared you. H This is gonna be a fun
Speaker 1: lightning round because this is not uh, we're not going
Speaker 1: to make it money related because we both have books
Speaker 1: pushing on January seventh. I can't remember specifically the date
Speaker 1: this is coming out, but and so we wanted to
Speaker 1: know we're going to all share what's the most fun
Speaker 1: thing about book launch because a lot of it can
Speaker 1: be very stressful, but there's got to be some little
Speaker 1: p purpose parts to it. So what's what's been your
Speaker 1: favorite part, Jordan?
Speaker 4: I think, and this hasn't happened with this book yet,
Speaker 4: but it happened with the last one. I think my
Speaker 4: favorite part is when the publisher sends you the book
Speaker 4: and it arrives in the mail and you open it
Speaker 4: up and put your hands on the actual book the
Speaker 4: first time. And this is something right, we've been working
Speaker 4: on for probably two years maybe more, and we've seen
Speaker 4: it digitally a million times. We've read it digitally a
Speaker 4: million times. Maybe we printed it off on our white
Speaker 4: sheets of paper, but it hasn't really looked like a book.
Speaker 4: And then you get that box in the mail and
Speaker 4: it comes and you open it up. Of whse nowadays
Speaker 4: every and we all of us videotape it as we
Speaker 4: do this. But then you get that box, you open
Speaker 4: it up and you hold the thing in your hands
Speaker 4: and it's just it really is. It's a moment.
Speaker 1: Oh, I know, we get to do that next week.
Speaker 1: Our publisher said that she just sent them out, so
Speaker 1: we have gotten so.
Speaker 4: Mind should be coming anytime.
Speaker 3: Then yeah, we have gotten like an advanced reader copy,
Speaker 3: but it's not quite the same.
Speaker 1: It's like coming off the side of the page and ye,
Speaker 1: but it was a glimpse of that for sure.
Speaker 4: So you guys have to answer the same question.
Speaker 1: Of course, yes, yes, go ahead, Okay, So my favorite
Speaker 1: part has actually been like catching up with so many friends,
Speaker 1: like podcasting friends. I that's it is. My favorite thing
Speaker 1: about podcasting is having an excuse to hang out with
Speaker 1: people and get to know people and be known. And
Speaker 1: so there was so much like getting to know people,
Speaker 1: meeting new people. We've met some like great podcasters from this,
Speaker 1: and also had an excuse to like hang out with
Speaker 1: old friends for an hour, and that has been so good.
Speaker 1: That's why we did so many podcast interviews because it's
Speaker 1: just like my favorite part. The pitching is very hard,
Speaker 1: but it is worth it for the actual interview.
Speaker 3: You guys have great answers, I think now that I'm
Speaker 3: thinking about it, there have been a lot of fun parts,
Speaker 3: a lot of awful parts too, But I'm going to
Speaker 3: go in the way way back machine and say that
Speaker 3: one of the most fun parts of this whole process
Speaker 3: was pitching our book idea to publishers and going to
Speaker 3: auction and having them fight over us with money.
Speaker 1: That was fighting with money go to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah that was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we got we went to auction on my birthday.
Speaker 3: I have enjoyed when Jen and I choose to celebrate.
Speaker 3: It's not that often, but we will look for reasons
Speaker 3: to celebrate and usually eat food. Yeah, and that's been fun. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: the collaborative effort and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the book deal day was actually so great.
Speaker 4: But the problem with that is then there's the panic.
Speaker 4: You're like, oh, no, I have to actually write this thing. Now,
Speaker 4: You're like, because most people don't understand, what we know
Speaker 4: intimately is that usually don't write the book. You write,
Speaker 4: you know, a book proposal in one or two chapters,
Speaker 4: in an outline, et cetera. But then you actually have
Speaker 4: to write the book once they accept it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is true. We were going to write it
Speaker 3: either way. So it did feel like you might as
Speaker 3: well pay us because this thing.
Speaker 1: Is going to think I was going to write it
Speaker 1: if I didn't get money for it.
Speaker 4: Wow, is out the one thing that I think, you know,
Speaker 4: I definitely went through with my first book, and I'm
Speaker 4: sure you guys will feel this or are feeling it already,
Speaker 4: and I even feel it I'm now during the second book.
Speaker 4: Is when you write a book and you put that
Speaker 4: much time and energy into it, most people who don't
Speaker 4: write books don't understand this. It becomes exceedingly personal. And
Speaker 4: so you know, the launch day is both really exciting
Speaker 4: and just really terrifying too, because it's like that is
Speaker 4: is just mass vulnerability, and especially if you have write
Speaker 4: an audience, because you're releasing it out to the audience,
Speaker 4: You're like, oh my god, thousands of people are going
Speaker 4: to see this and they're you know, what if they
Speaker 4: hate it? You know, what if it reflects badly on me?
Speaker 4: What if I messed it all up?
Speaker 1: And what if I read their review?
Speaker 3: I haven't thought about that, Jordan. I've never gone through
Speaker 3: a launch date by things.
Speaker 1: For all of them. Well, I self published a few books,
Speaker 1: and so I well, and just with our podcast reviews,
Speaker 1: like people are going to hate it, and so it's
Speaker 1: just trying to not read those reviews and not take
Speaker 1: them to heart. Thankfully, I think we've talked about it
Speaker 1: so much that I'm like, I'm obsessed with this. I
Speaker 1: think this is good. Still, Like I'm still I've we
Speaker 1: are doing.
Speaker 4: Oh, I've read it and it's good, So this is
Speaker 4: this is this is just a given. I've read your
Speaker 4: book and it's good. So we're there's not any I
Speaker 4: think here and and you have. You both have continuously
Speaker 4: spoken truths that people have wanted to hear, and so
Speaker 4: reading your book, it's like, this is everything coalesced, all
Speaker 4: the things you've been saying for years, all the waves
Speaker 4: you've been framing these issues, and so it's it's very exciting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, And.
Speaker 1: I think you speak on such parallel topics with such
Speaker 1: like a complimentary experience in tone, So let's not bury
Speaker 1: the lead. Where can people get your book and get
Speaker 1: more from you in the future.
Speaker 4: Theest places to go to Jordan Grummitt dot com. That's
Speaker 4: j O R D A N G r U me
Speaker 4: et dot com. There you can see links to both
Speaker 4: my books, taking Stock in the Purpose Code, as well
Speaker 4: as links to all the places that I create content,
Speaker 4: currently mostly the Earn and Invest podcasts and the Purpose
Speaker 4: Code substack, but there are some links to my old
Speaker 4: medical blog as well as my personal finance blog. That's
Speaker 4: all at Jordan Grummitt dot com.
Speaker 3: Beautiful, Thanks for being here. With us.
Speaker 4: Jordan's thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: I always love talking to Jordan because his his view
Speaker 1: is so complimentary to ours and aligned. It's it really
Speaker 1: just reminded me so much of how we view the
Speaker 1: self actualization of Mazwell's hierarchy of needs. It's not finding
Speaker 1: this big purpose and living into it, but it's feeling
Speaker 1: like you know your true self.
Speaker 3: I think where the rub has come for us in
Speaker 3: the past too, is trying to always have a why
Speaker 3: at the forefront. Like it feels really similar to that
Speaker 3: kind of conversation where what's your why? Nor why financial
Speaker 3: independence for paying down your debt and not to say
Speaker 3: that it's not important to identify the reason you're doing something,
Speaker 3: like the reason you've set this aim, but it's not
Speaker 3: realistic to have that always and forever in front of
Speaker 3: you on a day to day basis. And so what
Speaker 3: are the things that sustain us regularly? What is life giving?
Speaker 3: And we've been talking more and more about these the
Speaker 3: simple things and the ways in which our environment and
Speaker 3: internally we've been curating to be able to engage in
Speaker 3: the things that really matter that are most valuable to us.
Speaker 3: And so it's been cool to put another word to
Speaker 3: that of like this little p purpose.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, thank you so much if this helped you
Speaker 1: kind of realign your perspective on purpose. We would love
Speaker 1: if you would leave a rating and review on apple
Speaker 1: Pie Podcasts or a rating and comment on Spotify. It
Speaker 1: helps people figure out what this show is all about
Speaker 1: and what kind of guests we have on kind of
Speaker 1: like Tracy Bigham Pac did when they said great conversations
Speaker 1: came from this episode came from the episode on sounds
Speaker 1: like a cult. To remind you, gals, you are doing
Speaker 1: great work offering sound advice and keeping it real when
Speaker 1: it comes to personal finance, spending and living in alignment
Speaker 1: with your values and more. Applause, Emji.
Speaker 3: Wow, it's so fun when we read in reviews where
Speaker 3: people found us through how they came to follow us
Speaker 3: there listen to us. So thanks for sharing that. That's cool,
Speaker 3: what a cool crossover that happened there, And thanks for
Speaker 3: taking the time to leave a rating and review. If
Speaker 3: you are listening you haven't done that before, that's a
Speaker 3: good idea. Tell us how you found the podcast and
Speaker 3: leave your rating and review, because that too will help
Speaker 3: other people know. Oh if I liked that show. I
Speaker 3: have heard of that show. I might like this show too.
Speaker 3: So it's it's really it's helpful for us, it's helpful
Speaker 3: for the larger community. So thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll see you next time.
Speaker 3: Bye.
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni Jill. Are you
Speaker 1: excited for our very first book event?
Speaker 3: Yes, I am. I'm very excited. We don't quite know
Speaker 3: exactly what we're going to say, but I imagine we're
Speaker 3: going to talk about our favorite parts of the book,
Speaker 3: maybe even some behind the scenes stuff in the writing process.
Speaker 3: But I think chatting with everybody is going to be
Speaker 3: my favorite part. Hopefully the bookstore stays open late, and
Speaker 3: I'm also excited to see, like what I end up
Speaker 3: writing people's books.
Speaker 1: I know, I hope people come. I hope people show up,
Speaker 1: and that is what I hope.
Speaker 3: You know what, though, Jen, all along, regardless of what
Speaker 3: other people choose, we have each other. We will at
Speaker 3: at least be we do this podcast for ourselves and
Speaker 3: for each other because we keep having fun. So you
Speaker 3: know what, it's gonna be a party. Even if it's
Speaker 3: just you and I.
Speaker 1: It will be a party. But we do this podcast
Speaker 1: also because we need to pay bills, and the only
Speaker 1: way we pay bills is if people down like, listen
Speaker 1: to the show.
Speaker 3: And by the book.
Speaker 1: Truly, every download and every listen does help us pay
Speaker 1: our bills. And every book purchase twenty five dollars. That's it.
Speaker 1: And you help us keep doing this and keep having parties,
Speaker 1: even if they're just the two of us in a
Speaker 1: bookstore after close.
Speaker 3: So true.
Speaker 1: And we don't even know who's gonna be asking us
Speaker 1: the questions at the Q and A. We don't even know.
Speaker 3: That yet, but I think we will. I really liked
Speaker 3: that when gen Ruis did that. I know, book signing.
Speaker 1: So we'll find someone, Yeah, find someone interesting, and it'll
Speaker 1: be a surprise. It probably won't be the surprice. We'll
Speaker 1: probably have announced it already right now. It's a surprise.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Follow us on Instagram too to get like an
Speaker 3: update on it. I'm sure we're posting. I'm sure we
Speaker 3: posted it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, already on Instagram, but at Frugal Friends podcast.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Fu