WEBVTT - Weirdhouse Cinema: Alice (1988) 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:05.280 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:14.680 My Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.880 This is Rob Lamb and my name is Seth Nicholas Johnson. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.079 That's right, Joe is still out on parental leaves. So 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:24.920 this week on Weird House Cinema, Seth is serving as 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:29.040 guest co host. Seth of course produces the show UH 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.960 and Uh and also hosts the podcast Rusty Needles Record Club. 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.840 So we've actually been cooking this episode up for a while. 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.320 I guess I think maybe just kind of off hand 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.839 conversation many many months back, you said, well, you know, 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.120 if I were to pick a Weird House film, I'd 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:50.600 go with Alice from UH film by check stop motion 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:54.600 animation master John's funk Meyer. And here we are. You know, 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:56.800 I think the listener might have been in on that conversation. 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.040 I think that might have happened in a listener mail 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.240 episode in real time. So so yeah, I think that 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:04.959 the audience has been along with us for this entire ride. 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.280 Here we are at our destination. Yeah, this this is 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.120 a film I had never watched before. I was familiar 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.080 with it because I'm familiar with um with Jon s 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.600 frank Meyer's work to a certain extent. I've seen some 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:19.960 of his work before, and we'll get into that as 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:22.640 as we go. But yeah, setting down and watching this 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.640 for the first time, this was an experience I had 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.800 just hours ago. I mean, it's it's it's a wonderful film. 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:32.279 It's one I've I've grown up with um and because 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:34.360 of that, I love to introduce people to it because 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.280 I do think that if people, I mean there are 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:42.040 there are obviously hundreds of adaptations of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:45.200 mostly because it's public domain, but it's also got really 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:48.160 great recognizability, and I think more than that, it's actually 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:50.960 just a truly wonderful book. Like like, it's one of 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:53.560 my favorite children's books full stop. Probably just one of 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:56.760 my favorite books period. Like, I think Alice's Adventures in 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.760 Wonderland is probably the first book that I fell in 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:03.200 love with as a child that never went away. You know. 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:05.080 Obviously there's a lot of children's books that kind of 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:06.880 fall by the wayside, but that one I was like, 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:09.760 oh no, this is like high quality literature that can 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.119 stick with me throughout the ages, and and it has. 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:14.560 It's been a book that I've read dozens of times. 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.680 So how how did this film come into your life? 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:20.440 Do you remember, particularly like how you ended up watching 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:22.480 it for the first time, and how you latched onto it. 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.040 I think, and this this is a while ago, so 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.359 I'm not entirely sure. I think as a youth, there 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:32.560 was a specific adaptation from the nineteen eighties of Alice's 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.680 Adventures in Wonderland that I really enjoyed that took yeah, 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:37.880 and so I think I was trying to track that 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:42.000 one down, and instead I came across this nineteen eighties 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.160 adaptation of Alice in Wonderland, started watching it, and then 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.160 just like, nope, I'm going to finish this. You know 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.280 this is the wrong adaptation, but I'm here for it. 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:55.720 For for my own part, I think I basically came 0:02:55.720 --> 0:03:00.280 into John's funk Meyer a couple of ways via interest 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:04.560 in like industrial music, and then also by virtue of 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:08.000 moving to Atlanta, where we have the Center for Puppetry Art, 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.200 and pretty at least at the time, there's kind of 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:15.080 a robust, uh independent puppetry art scene, and and also 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.760 a great video rental store in Video Drone that has 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.120 a lot of the films, a lot of the films 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.120 all of john S Funkmeyer, and also many of the 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:26.160 individuals who are either his peers or people that influenced 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:30.560 him and um And in terms of like downstream influences, 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:34.240 like I feel like, especially in the West, like if 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.920 you were someone who did any kind of weird puppetry 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.840 or weird stop motion, I feel like his work is 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.400 probably or was probably on your radar. So even things 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.840 like creepy tool videos, which I think for a lot 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.520 of people like that's kind of your first um introduction 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.360 to strange stop motion, Like even that I don't think 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:59.160 would exist without a world in which we have Jance Funkmeyer. 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.120 I think there's a couple of really mainstream influences that 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.840 the average person has seen too. For example, both Wes 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.360 Anderson stop motion films Uh, The Fantastic Mr Fox and 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.839 um Isle of Dogs. Both of them have this very 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:19.120 deliberate look where the characters have for and they clearly 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.359 kind of rustle a bit from frame to frame. You 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:25.040 can see the you can see the handmade aesthetic in them, 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:28.080 and that I think is is clearly an influence and 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.720 homage and just kind of like an aesthetic choice that 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:35.039 Jan spank Meyer and you know, his contemporaries were doing 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:36.839 and they were doing it just because it's it's what 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.919 they were able to do the the Wes Anderson films. 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:41.640 I think they're doing it as like a note, we 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:43.920 want this to look handmade, we want you to see 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:47.559 the creator in every frame, just like these older stop 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:52.080 motion projects. So I think it's a wonderful look and 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:56.159 it does feel very handmade. You know. Yeah, there's they're 0:04:56.240 --> 0:05:01.280 strong tactile um details in this film, like and and 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.760 it gets into the soundscape as well that we'll we'll 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.400 discuss here in a bit, like every all these very 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:10.840 very little objects that are manipulated, all the things and 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:15.599 creatures that are moving around. Um, it's I guess this 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.080 this might be to a certain some extent what Joe 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.800 sometimes describes as I rubbed the fur film tho the 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:25.520 same thing, and that you can imagine yourself holding these objects. 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.720 They're they're all these little often grimy or not really 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:31.799 grimy details. But uh, I don't know this whole film. 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:33.599 There are many times in the film where I like 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.359 really wanted to grab a broom. The meat freaking me 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:38.520 was like I could get a broom in there and 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:42.320 and do some work, and also perhaps warned this young 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.520 girl not to touch these things. You know, don't don't 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:47.919 stick your finger in that, Alice. No, a lot of 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.600 these things seemed very dangerous, and I was worried for her, 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:54.719 which which I'm sure is intentional from the director. Now, Alice, 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:56.960 I think it is very much a fascinating film, one 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.640 worth seeking out. But I think you do need to 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.480 know what getting into here. Um, this isn't really a warning, 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.600 but just just letting you know. This is a film 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:09.240 with a very very subdued pacing, a single human actor 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:13.640 who is also a child, strange ruinous sets, bizarre stop 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:18.080 motion animation, and virtually no musical score. It's also far 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.360 more watchable and enjoyable than anything I just said makes 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:25.520 it sound. Uh, it's not nearly as creepy as as 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.719 that is it makes, as we may be making it sound, 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.520 but it's also not un creepy. I mean, I think 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:36.120 this is for children and adults who who like the 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.440 darker side of fantasy, you know. I mean, like, for example, 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:41.480 when I grew up, and I'm sure you were the same, 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:45.719 I loved things like Labyrinth and The Dark Crystal. So 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.960 so therefore this fit in that for me. Obviously it's 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.280 a bit more art house than either of those, but 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.599 but it's still you know, it would would be a 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.200 part of that world, at least into my child eyes 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.320 and partially to my adult eyes. Yeah, yeah, I mean 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.960 there's something in this film that some might say or 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:08.359 interpreted as it is horrific but or or scary, But 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:09.920 I don't know, I don't I don't think there's anything 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:14.400 overtly scary or mean about the film. I think for 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.360 the most part, there is this sense of wonder. It 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.120 may be get kind of a dark leaning wonder, but 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:22.520 it is authentic wonder. And there's like a sense of 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:25.760 humor to it too, Like I I believe Jon spank 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:31.200 Meyer he must have known some of these grotesque puppets 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.600 that he created had kind of a goofy look to them, 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.160 you know. And and and in fact, there's there's one 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.400 shot which perhaps I would say is the only quote 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.720 unquote scary shot of like almost like a jump scare 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.520 from like a frog creature, but it's he's got such 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.400 a goofy face that you aren't really scared. It's just 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:52.520 sort of like, what is that? Yeah, the creatures we 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:57.600 encounter are generally silly enough looking that it kind of 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:01.360 disarms the terror that might that you might expect to 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.000 be there when saying things like and then the poorly 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.080 taxidermy and rotting animals come alive and start crawling all 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.200 over the place. It's true, it's it's it's a charming 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:14.680 version of poorly animated taxidermy. Duff. Yeah, yeah, no, it's 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:18.720 it's it's fun and goofy and charming and disturbing and 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:23.480 dirty and a little frightening. Um. When I was trying 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:25.520 to think of elevator pitches for the film, I mean, 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:27.520 for to a certain extent, doesn't need one. It's kind 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:29.560 of a legendary film and and that's kind of the 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:31.800 maybe one of the challenges and even talking about it 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.360 because like with within and you can speak more to 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:37.600 this than I can, but within the world of stop 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.080 motion and stop motion animation, like this is a big film, 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:43.120 like and this is a master we're dealing with here, 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.920 and not not even to mention the subject matter, Like 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:50.440 I think, even if someone hasn't seen this film, I 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.600 would bet the vast majority of our audience has probably 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.480 read the book, or the very least is familiar with 0:08:56.520 --> 0:09:00.600 all of the beats that happened in this very unconventional story. Yeah, 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:02.800 and it does stick to a lot of the major beats, 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.440 so which I do that. I think that helps with 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:09.600 what was force funk Meyer his first if I'm correct 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.560 on this, his first full length film, uh, coming after 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:17.760 coming off of a string of shorter animated subjects. But 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.040 knowing that those beats are in place, that kind of 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:24.280 helps propel you through what is essentially, you know, a 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.120 feature length art film. Yeah. No, I feel the same way, 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.040 Like like, even when I'm watching it, I'm most familiar 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:31.319 with the book that I am with any of the 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:35.280 film adaptations. When when certain like points in the story hits, 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:37.439 I'm like, oh, they're playing croquet. I know where we are, 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:40.600 you know, like we're starting to wrap this up, you know. 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:44.480 But if I were to do an elevator pitch, I'd say, 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.360 it's it's Alice in Wonderland, except in one of the 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.640 houses from Silent Hill, but with the lights turned up 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.280 a bit, so it's not that scary. I think it's 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.559 a it's a fair pitch. There are a lot there's 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.040 a lot of trying to unlock doors and not being 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.199 able to. There are a lot of like range set 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.240 pieces and props, and then of course bizarre creatures that 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.240 you encounter. All right, let's go ahead and listen to 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.360 the trailer audio. This is a legitimate trailer audio from 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.480 the at least the English version of the film. And 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:16.520 I think it's quite nice because it does it certainly 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:19.600 doesn't give you any of the rich visuals that are 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:21.640 of course the main reason for watching the film, but 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:25.000 it does, I think, perfectly capture many of the elements 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:31.200 of the sound skin. I shall be too late side 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:40.440 the white traffic, how lazy side the white traffic. Well, 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.679 the Queen will be curious much of the white trappic 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.240 our invitations for Alice from the queen, said the white trabbic, 0:10:51.040 --> 0:11:02.480 off with the heck, greeen the Queen. Now we'll we'll 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:04.720 come back to this of course. But yeah, what you 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:10.080 just heard, the the narration by Alice, the those kind 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:14.880 of ambient industrial sound effects that are happening in the background, 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.479 like this is the this is the soundscape of the film, 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.480 and and it's um. I I know folks who have 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.600 never really encountered art cinema that when I've shown them this, 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.559 they found that very cloying. But I think if if 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.360 you just accept it, I think it's perfectly fine. I mean, 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:33.440 in fact, I would say it's a good thing that 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:37.520 really uh enhances the overall aesthetics of the film, And 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:41.040 I think it's perfectly chosen. But yeah, I mean, I'm 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.800 not warning you. I'm just letting you know that it's art. 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.240 This is art house. Maybe. Yeah, so you're you're you're 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:50.280 talking about the the Alice narration, the how she's she's 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.600 reading the things that the other people are saying, are saying, 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:54.959 and then she creatures are saying that she's saying, um, 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:57.760 you know, the Mad Hatter said yeah, And and that's 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.520 always accompanied by a close up of her mouth when 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.640 she describes all those kind of descriptive verbs, things like 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:09.640 Alice thought, Alice said the red the Mad Hatter yelled. 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.000 You know, whenever one of those, like you know, dialogue 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:16.720 descriptors is happening, one of those dialogue verbs, it's a 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:19.719 close up of Alice's mouth kind of kind of saying that. 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.320 But but in addition to that, also that the the 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.640 just the sound design. I've had friends tell me it's 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.000 very cloying, just like the sounds of all the scuttling 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:33.320 bones scissors chomping away and yeah, all that. We'll, we'll, 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:37.920 we'll definitely discuss this as we proceed. So at this 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.280 point you might be wondering, Hey, where should I go 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:42.560 if I want to see this film? Well, you might 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:44.840 be able to stream this via some of your arts 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.200 and your streaming sources. There. There's so many places to 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.800 stream films these days, I can't even begin to keep 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:51.160 track of them all, but it looks like you might 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.240 be able to find it on some of those. It 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.800 might also be available to digitally rent or buy, at 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.360 least in some markets the UK, for example, I watched 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:01.240 it on a risk store Blu ray edition that I 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:03.880 rented from Video Drome. Here in Atlanta, they also have 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.560 the DVD and just a superb collection of stop motion offering. 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.160 So if you're local to the Atlanta area and are 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:12.480 interested in films like this, well they've they've got your back. 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:14.920 All right. Well, let's talk about some of the people 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.680 involved here. Again, they're not not not really a lot 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.640 in terms of cast, but we do have to talk 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.680 a little bit about Jan's funk Meyer, the director, writer, 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:28.080 and production designer for this film. So he was born 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.720 as of this recording is still with us legendary check 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.760 stop motion animator and and I think just general multimedia artist. 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.320 I think one thing to keep in mind, especially with 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.720 this film, and I think this applies to so many 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.200 of his other films as well. It's like, it's not 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.400 just wall to wall stop motion, their whole sequences where 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:51.040 it's Alice interacting with a strange environment, but there's there's 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.880 not something like crawling across the screen the whole time. 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.240 I guess also we should really state that in this 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:01.959 stop motion film, Alice is often a human girl interacting 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:07.240 with stop motion taxidermy and bones. But when she shrinks, 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.559 as people know she often does in the book, she 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:16.000 turns into quite often a little creepy doll version of herself. 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:20.040 So sometimes Alice the character is a stop motion doll, 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.600 and sometimes Alice is a full grown human being being 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.080 filmed on a camera, and so so it jumps back 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.280 and forth, it's all over the place, and so sometimes 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:32.360 it's like puppetry interacting with with the live action Alice. 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:34.960 Sometimes it's a split screen where you see live action 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:36.920 Alice on one side and stop motion on the other. 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:40.360 It's it's it's a whole combination of effects and Uh, 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:45.080 it's it's wonderful. You're never fooled by like, oh, that's 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.680 not real Alice, you know, like like it's it's obvious 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:51.560 when it switches over, but it's it's always perfectly charming 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.200 and believable and like, um, as the Disney animators would say, 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.840 it's the plausible impossible, like everything follows a through line. 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.480 It all makes sense. So sung Bier has been active 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.800 since the mid nineteen sixties and i've and it seems 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.440 to still be active. Uh. Over the course of his career, 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:13.120 his unique surrealistic style has been highly influential, especially on 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:17.000 such filmmakers as Terry Gilliam also the Americans stop motion 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:21.600 duo The Brothers k or Key or Quay. We we 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.400 actually just looked this up to try and get the 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.320 definitive answer, and uh we found it pronounced all three ways. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:32.880 So um, my apologies for inevitably getting it wrong twice 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:35.960 two out three times, but at least he got it 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.240 right once. Yeah, one of those has to be correct. Uh. 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:42.760 Certainly more familiar with their work than uh, you know, 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.920 interviews with them, but they have a very distinctive style 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:50.800 that's reminiscent of sync Meyer. Uh. At any rate, all 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:54.560 all of these individuals have also been highly influential as well, 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.160 of course, So again I think it's not that much 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.720 of a stretch at all to say that most of 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.400 the range of surreal stop motion animation you're finding in 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.640 the world has at least some connection to spank Meyer's 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:10.120 work or or that general period in world of stop 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:14.480 motion animation. Some of sink Meyer's most notable works include 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:19.520 Faust from Little O Tech from two thousand and Surviving 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.280 Life from two thousand ten. His many short films include 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:27.080 Jabberwockie from seventy one, Leonardo's Diary from seventy two, and 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:31.760 and Castle of Otranto from ninety seven. So I don't 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.760 know about you step from my own, from my own 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.320 part um, I think I went through a period, this 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:41.040 is maybe fifteen years ago where I was again into 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.800 strange puppetry and I was getting into stop motion. I 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:48.040 remember renting numerous discs from the likes of Spec Meyer, 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.480 also Jerry Barta, who was another big name in check 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.960 stop motion, The Brothers, the Brothers k that we just mentioned. 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:58.960 Um So my memory is a little little faint on 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:00.880 on all of it, Like some is getting confused about 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:06.400 which work was directed by which uh individual or duo? UM. 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.240 I know I watched some of Feankmeyer's shorts, and I 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.439 believe I watched two thousands Little Oh Tech. But a 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:14.119 lot of this kind of blends together. But I know 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.440 that I had never watched Alice, so I've been seeing 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:20.320 it on the rental shelf for years. Yeah. For for me, um, 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.280 it was all about stop motion growing up. UM. I 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.200 still love stop motion. It's still one of my favorite 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:29.280 mediums of just filmmaking in general. But you know, as 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.159 you know, I have a big background in um animation 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:37.320 for film and television, and it's just such a beautiful, expensive, 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:41.760 time consuming process, and I just I just adore that 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:46.320 it exists, like like by every standard of like um, 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.320 you know, financial and labor and all these other reasons 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.760 no one should do stop motion, but people want it 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.600 to exist, so people make it exist, you know, And 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.240 and so I really respect that, and uh yeah, that's 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.760 just false in that camp for me, I feel like 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:06.000 I've seen multiple documentaries where at some point there's the visionary, 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.280 there's the artist who says I want to make a 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:12.080 full length stop motion film, and someone is telling them, no, 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.200 you really don't want to do this. You should not 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.480 do this. Yeah, it's like you you don't have the money, 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.840 you don't have the time. You know that the audience 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.080 doesn't exist for it. Like, for example, my favorite stop 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.920 motion studio right now, not a surprise, is like they're 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:28.520 based out of Portland, Oregon. They make wonderful films. Um, 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:30.120 I'd have to double check to make sure these numbers 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.679 are correct, but at least last time I checked every 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.119 single Like a stop motion film has become less and 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:40.040 less profitable, has made a smaller profit every single time. 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.000 That's not a way that that you can run a business. 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.439 But they keep doing it, and I thank them for 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.600 that because I love their films, you know, and it's 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.040 I love I just love stop motion. I think it's 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.320 a wonderful process and and it's aesthetics really just appeal 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.159 to me now as as a as a child or 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.080 a young filmmaker yourself. Did you did you do any 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.480 stop motion? Did you make any little experimental films? I did? 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:08.480 I did? Um. I literally remember the first one I 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:12.800 ever did, which was with some playto um a camera 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.240 like literally just a camera camera, and um, I think 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:18.320 it was like a ninja turtle toy and it was 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:19.800 about a guy getting hit in the head with a 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:21.679 meteor and so then I had to use it like 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.960 a flipbook and to have it all come together. And 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:27.040 this is when I was gosh, maybe like seven or eight, 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.440 and it didn't really work. You know, the idea of 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:34.359 like having the camera like, you know, locked down, did I? 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:36.960 I did. Didn't understand that yet. And you know how 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:39.800 many frames you really need to like you know, experience 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.920 uh that that your eye to like see the motion itself, 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.879 twelve frames per second, all that jazz. No, no, no, 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.080 I didn't know any of that. Um. But then when 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:50.640 I did get into college, and you know, I my 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.960 my my animation studios at my university had like all 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.840 the equipment. Of course, I hopped right on it. One 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.520 of my favorites I ever did. This is kind of 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.400 cheating when it comes to stop motion, but I made 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:06.560 a short film using a light bright as stop motion, 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.160 which I loved. I thought thought that was it turned 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:11.440 out so beautifully, it was so much fun to do, 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:14.439 and um but yeah, yeah, no, I love stop motion 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.320 and uh yeah, people rarely pay me for it because 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.040 people can't afford it. But in my own time, and 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:23.160 for my own like student films and stuff, I would 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.240 use it all the time. The kids today have it, 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:27.160 I guess a lot easier to experiment with it because 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.159 I know my my own son has done some stop 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:34.840 motion experimentation because they have apps that can help with it. Uh. 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:36.439 And so I've I've seen some of these that he's 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:38.760 done where there's some sort of like Plato or Lego 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.159 creature crawling around and doing something. You know, isn't it 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.600 not super long? But I was really impressed when I 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.760 saw it. And and who knows, maybe twenty years from 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:50.679 now he'll be coming to me and saying, Dad, I 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:54.200 need I need some help financing my feature length stop 0:20:54.240 --> 0:21:08.840 motion animation film. Exactly. We can only hope now. UM. 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:11.520 I also just want to make a point here again, 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.840 we can't go We could spend a whole, a whole 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:17.520 lot of time talking about John smenc Meyer uh, and 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:20.680 I don't want to. I also don't want to want 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:24.000 to over stress his importance. I don't want to state 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.920 that like he is check stop motion animation because check 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:32.159 puppetry and uh and subsequently um stop motion animation. And 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:34.040 this goes back quite a while, and there there are 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.960 other big names in check stop motion summer contemporaries, um 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:40.679 of spank Meyer. But then you also have some that 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:44.320 kind of predate him, such as Jerry trunka who nineteen 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.359 twelve through nineteen sixty nine. Who Um. I'm not super 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:49.200 familiar with his work either, but I know that he 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:52.159 did a lot of like children's stop motion animated films 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.200 for the check market. All right. As we mentioned, this 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.720 is of course based on the work of Lewis Carroll. 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:02.240 Lewis Carroll this was the name of Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:07.160 who lived eighteen thirty two through, best remembered for Alice 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:09.840