WEBVTT - How to keep learning, with Helen Tupper 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.559 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:13.720 Good Morning, This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.320 Today's episode is going to be a slightly longer one 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:20.520 part of the series where I interview fascinating people about 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:23.000 how they take their days from great to awesome and 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:25.040 any advice they have for the rest of us. 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:27.960 So today I am delighted to welcome Helen Tupper to 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:28.880 Before Breakfast. 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:31.520 Helen is the co author with Sarah Ellis of the 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:35.239 new book Learn Like a Lobster. So Helen, welcome to 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:35.760 the show. 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.720 Thank you so much. I'm excited to talk. Yeah. 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:40.320 Well, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:41.040 about yourself. 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:44.479 Well, I run a company called amazing If. We have 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.920 a mission to make squiggly careers better for everybody, which 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:52.080 is really the idea of non linear becoming normal, which 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:54.000 has been talked about for a while. But what we 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.760 tend to find is that often individuals don't have the 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:58.880 skills to make that possible. At what are the skills 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.720 I need to manage a squidly career and organizations aren't 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:05.640 always set up to support them. So in our work, 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:07.520 we work with large companies all over the world to 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:11.520 support skills and structures for squidly careers. And along the way, 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:13.800 we've learned a lot about learning, which led to our 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:15.360 third book, Learn Like a Lobster. 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.560 And I'm sure everyone listening to this is like, what 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:20.600 on earth a lobster like? 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:22.120 So why a lobster? 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.440 Well, I'm going to say why learning first, because I 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.280 think that is the most important thing. So on this 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.039 sort of journey on squiggly careers, what we have seen 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.880 is that the people that are most adaptable at work, 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:37.600 the people that are most resilient to change, the people 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.120 that create the most opportunities for their career, are the 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.600 people that are most able to learn at work. And 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:44.399 it's sort of an easy thing to say, but it 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.440 is not an easy thing to do because people say, well, 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:49.240 I kind of get I need to learn, but I 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.880 don't have the time to do it. I find it 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.800 too hard to work out when in my week I'm 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:56.880 supposed to add on learning when I've already got so 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:00.120 much to do, and there's so much to learn my 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.120 organization outside of my organization that's just so overwhelming. And 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:05.600 so we've got this sort of tension between well, the 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:07.440 people who are most set up to succeed are the 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.040 people who are most able to learn, but the majority 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.160 of people are finding it too hard to do, and 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.480 so we want to solve that tension. And what we 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.760 recognize is that sometimes we need role models. Sometimes we 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.720 need these people who just know how to do it brilliantly. 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.600 And unfortunately there aren't loads of people at work who've 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:28.200 learned brilliantly today, but there are lobsters. And what lobsters 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:32.079 do brilliantly is they grow. They are inspiring and how 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.800 they grow, so first of all, they never stop growing. 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:36.760 They have something called indeterminate growth, so they grow and 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.200 grow and grow until the day the lobster is no 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.040 longer here for whatever reason. And the way that never 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.160 ending growth is enabled is they have to shed their shell. 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.760 So their shell becomes a constraint to their growth. They 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.680 recognize that, they feel that tension, and rather than stay 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.360 safe in the in the shell, they shed it. And 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.400 that is a really hard, vulnerable process for the lobster. 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.240 They takes a lot of energy and when they shed 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.679 that shell, they're very exposed. They look like jelly, like 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.359 a jelly like lobster. And it's high risk but high 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:09.560 reward because the reward is a new shell grows back, 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.320 and that shell is bigger and better and stronger than 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:14.760 the one that they shed. And they do this on repeat. 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.080 And then the third fact is that the shell that 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.600 they shared does not go to waste. They are very, 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.200 very resourceful. They eat the shell that they shed to 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.880 fuel the next phase of their growth. So they basically 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:29.840 evolved this self sustaining system for growth. And so what 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:32.640 we are saying to people is you can evolve a 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:36.000 self sustaining system for learning where you never stop learning 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.520 because you learn as you go, rather than waiting for 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:42.200 a day for learning to happen. You learn in your 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.440 hardest moments when you are vulnerable. You know when you 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.600 fail or when you get that feedback that makes you go, 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.040 oh that's hard, dear. But that's when you learn the most, 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:53.480 because that's when the lobster growth the most, and you 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.200 lead your own learning like the lobster fuels its own 0:03:56.280 --> 0:04:00.600 growth by being adaptable, by being a brilliant beginner, by connecting, 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.480 by sharing all these things that are in our control. 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:05.920 And so that's why we've written the book because we 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.560 want people to succeed in scribby careers. Learning is a 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:10.880 very helpful way to do it, and lobsters are our 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:12.560 way into looking at learning differently. 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.480 I love it. I love it well. I love that 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:16.480 you talk about the time there. 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.640 I mean I would say this is a time management podcast, 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:20.400 and sure a lot of people hearing this, so like, yes, 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.719 I need to find time to learn, and you suggest 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:25.800 that that's not the right way to look at it. Instead, 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:28.560 we need to be learning from the things we are 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:31.440 already doing. So I'm wondering if you could talk me 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.880 through like a typical workday, what would that look like 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.800 to learn from things you are already doing. 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.960 Yeah, so I guess framing here is rather than looking 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.480 at learning as something that has to be added on, 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.760 you are looking to add it in. And so the 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:50.320 obvious ways that you add this in are things like meetings. 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:52.159 Lots of people are meetings, So how do we add 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:57.080 more learning into meetings? In conversations we're having conversations as 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.080 a recurring part of our working week. Well, those I 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.039 would also say, spot the situations, the situations you're in 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:04.680 regular So, first of all, if we're going to add 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.640 it in, I would think about meetings, conversations, situations in 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.279 an average week, and then some simple ways that you 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:15.560 can add more learning in One is experiments like experiments 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:20.000 are they're like ready made for learning because they an 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.320 experiment is not about does it work or doesn't it work? 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.160 Like it's not it's not really that, it's what do 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.160 you learn from doing something differently? And so we take 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:32.000 these conversations, these meetings, these situations and we deliberately do 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.800 something different but with the desire to learn from it. 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.840 Now that could look like agendas. So one of the 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.839 things we write in the book we write about decision 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:46.120 discussion agendas. These have massively changed my meetings. I've learned 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.760 so much more from doing this. So traditional agenda, if 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:53.080 you even have an agenda, so many meetings without agendas, 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:54.640 but and then you kind of get into a different 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:56.960 question about why we're having this meeting. But let's imagine 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.279 there's an agenda. Traditional agenda tends to look like a 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.279 list of things that you and we should talk about, Laura, 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:04.919 maybe with aob at the end, just to cover stuff 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.000 that we forgot to say a bit at time at 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:09.560 the end, and it's not particularly focused, and people just 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:11.880 kind of work through it, try and fit it in 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:16.560 a decision discussion agenda. I think is a better use 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:18.920 of time. Now the point is experiment and learn whether 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:20.680 it works for you. But the way that this works 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:22.760 is at the top of the agenda, you have what 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.080 are the decisions that we need to make today, and 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.640 having those at the top is a real focus for 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:31.080 people's attention. And also if there are any decisions, you 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.200 might question, do we need to have this meeting? Is 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.680 this something we could just do over Microsoft teams for example. 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:37.719 So you have the decisions at the top, and then 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:40.640 you have the discussion items. But what makes this different 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.640 is you frame the discussion items as a question that 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.720 our brains are very attracted to question and we almost 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.120 can't help but think about a question. So rather than 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:54.760 just a list of event X, project, why you know 0:06:54.880 --> 0:07:00.679 budget B, you would say, how do we make next 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.160 month's event the most memorable the team have ever attended? 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.360 How do we operate the plan on a ten percent 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.320 budget cut? And you frame it as a question. And 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.320 that is even better if you can send that out 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.440 in advance, if you can be super organized, because then 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.320 people think ahead of the meeting and you have a 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.480 higher quality conversation rather than people trying to work out 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.000 what the intent of budget B actually is when you 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.280 see it on agenda. And so there are so many 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.120 experiments that you can do in meetings that you are 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.600 already in and the point is to run the experiment. 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:35.600 You can do it secretly, you can do it openly, 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:39.200 but run the experiment and then to reflect, because it's 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:42.239 when you reflect that you really log the learning loads 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:44.160 of You can literally ask yourself what did I learn? 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:48.000 But my favorite simple reflection tool is to do what so? 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.520 What now? What so? What was the experiment? So what 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.040 did I learn the affection? And now what am I 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:57.560 going to do? And if you compare like a very 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.280 simple experiment that's already in the work of your doing, 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:04.520 with some very fast reflection, you will automatically learn much 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:05.400 more from your work. 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:08.320 Absolutely all right, We're going to take a quick ad 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:10.640 break and then I'll be back with more from Helen Tupper. 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:19.560 Well, I am back talking with Helen and. 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:22.000 Tupper, who is the co author of the book Learn 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.440 Like a Lobster, accelerate your growth, achieve more at work, 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:27.280 and advance your career. 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:29.800 So, Helen, you also talk about. 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.600 Learning and hard moments when we are shedding our shells, 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:34.960 and I think this is somewhat difficult because a lot 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:39.680 of people get very sort of defensive in moments of challenge. 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.640 So how can you sort of manage yourself to be 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.320 still open to learning in situations where where it's clear 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:48.400 that something has gone awry. 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.800 Well, yeah, we know that people find this hard. So 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:54.040 in the book there is the idea of learning as 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.240 you go, learning hard moments lead your own learning. And 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.520 we've got a profiling tool that about nearly eight thousand 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.000 people have taken now and it helps to see what 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:03.760 lobs the day are most like. And the lobster that 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.280 people are most least to be like is the learning 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.280 hard moments lobster like. People find this really hard, So 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.600 just to make it more tangible, I think some very 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:16.240 common hard moments at work are feedback feels exposing like 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:20.520 the lobster. And failure, Oh feels dreadful, no one, no 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.680 one loves it, and people flippantly say, oh, you know, 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:27.320 you can learn from failure. It feels horrible, It feels 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:30.280 and met people avoid it. They stay safe because this 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.800 feeling of failure is so awful, and so we need 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:34.480 to we need to make it easier. There's so many 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:36.720 different ways. Maybe I'll just talk about to one connected 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.960 feedback one connected to failure. So let's start with failure. 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.400 First of all, failure, I think is too big a 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.320 starting place when we're thinking about learning from failure. I 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:48.840 think the word failure is too If you are in 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:51.320 a situation where you feel like you've failed and you 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.520 haven't developed the muscle to learn from failure, it's too 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.360 hard to start there. So the way we tell people 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.120 to develop this is to start smaller. And a small 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.520 failure is also known as a mistake, So it's much 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.000 easier to start learning from your mistakes than it is 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.160 to learn from your failures. Also, you have more mistakes. 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:11.640 We all have lots of mistakes, so there's lots of 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:15.240 sort of ready made learning waiting for us. So mistake 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.840 moments are something that you can do on your own, 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:19.720 but I think it's even better if you can do 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.160 this in a team environment. So I'll talk about how 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:25.360 we do it, and we use Microsoft Teams for the 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:27.320 way that my company runs. We have a channel on 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:30.600 Microsoft Teams called mistake Moments. I saw someone on my 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.600 team foot one in today actually, and mistake moments is 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.040 part of our language and our company. So whenever you 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:40.120 make a mistake. The rule is within twenty four hours 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.920 of you making the mistake, you have to share it, 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.160 have to share it, and so you have to stop 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.600 worrying about it, stop turning this sort of you know, 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:50.920 molehill into a mountain in your mind, and you have 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.040 to share it and that gets the weight off you 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:56.800 and it puts it into an environment where other people 0:10:56.800 --> 0:11:00.079 can support and everyone can learn. So the process the 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:03.480 mistake moments, you share what the mistake was. So, for example, 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:05.199 a mistake some one made in my team today was 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.680 we were in a meeting that we weren't as prepared 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:10.000 as we should have been for and we both reflected 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:12.760 afterwards that that was a mistake moment. And so she's typed, 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.240 this is a mistake moment, this is what happened. Then 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.880 you have to type what did I learn? Okay, so 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.760 you know I learned to gather some more information in 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:22.880 the emails that I've got and make sure that was 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.439 shared various things. And then what you get, like I said, 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.200 is you get the support the individual has processed the 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.560 moment and turned it into learning, and then that learning 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:34.840 is shared beyond the individuals that everyone gets better and 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:36.920 so you can do mistake moments on your own, but 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:39.800 I think the power of the learning is better when 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.120 you're doing it in teams. So that's a really really 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.439 useful way builds up the learning muscle so that when 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.800 a failure happens, you've almost got that trigger of I 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.280 need to share, I need to reflect, rather than the 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.880 fear of the failure. So that's one. And on the feedback. 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.120 Was so much with feedback that I could talk about, 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.360 but I think one of the things that we see 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.240 a lot where our response gets in the way of 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:08.400 learning from feedback is when someone gives you feedback. So 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:10.960 if you gave me feedback, now, maybe I wasn't expecting it. 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.240 What a lot of people do is rush to respond 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.360 because they want to show you that they're going to 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:19.560 do something that they're slightly panicking. They're just rushing to 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.240 respond to feedback. And what we want people to do 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:27.760 is to pause for thought, to create space between what 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.839 someone has shared with you and how you are intentionally 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:33.880 going to respond to it, because often the response of 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.000 the default and then the learning doesn't happen. The learning 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.240 happens in the pause. So pause the thoughts. I'm hearing 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.720 what you're saying The first thing is we call it think, 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.040 feel doom. So the first thing is like, where do 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.680 I think this person is coming from? Are they trying 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.360 to help me? Have they got my best interest at heart? 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:52.360 Are they having a bad day? Like? Are they just 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.000 a super critical person? Like? Where is this person coming from? 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.200 That's the think. The second is the feel that how 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:00.880 do I feel about this? Feedback probably awares a bit 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.640 of psychology around name it to tame it. So often 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.440 that default response is emotional, whereas if you can just process, 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:10.880 like how am I feeling, Oh, I'm surprised that Laura 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.520 said that about me, or I'm feeling embarrassed that we 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:15.680 didn't show up in the way I want to do 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:17.880 in that meeting. That if you can name the emotion, 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.760 you can take back a bit of control, and that 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.480 means the do becomes intentional, like what do you actually 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.960 want to do? Maybe what I want to do is say, 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.319 appreciate you sharing that with me, Laura, I'd like to 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:29.960 go away and reflect on this and come back to you. 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.360 Or maybe what we want to do is say, oh, 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:33.959 I wasn't aware of that. I might want to ask 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:38.920 you a question, but that becomes an intentional response rather 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.600 than default, and so it's just mistake moments and think 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.440 feel do are both ways that we can just learn 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.200 a little bit more from situations that can feel quite hard. 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:52.240 Absolutely, So let's talk about I mean giving other people feedback. 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:54.400 I loved one of the framings you had in is 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.360 using the language of brilliant because that if you're giving 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.920 like positive feedback somebody instead of just a good job, 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.200 which is hard to do anything with, talk about what 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:07.800 this brilliant because. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.920 Yeah, it looks like So I think lots of people 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.720 confuse praise as feedback. And I'm not saying praise is bad. 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:15.480 Like we all we all need a stroke every now 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.000 and again when particularly when it's hard. It's nice for 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.120 someone to say, oh, great job, love that podcast. You 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:23.880 know that was great, that we need that. But in 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:28.800 terms of learning, like feedback that fuels learning, praise doesn't 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.480 really do it. It creates an emotion, but it doesn't 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.160 necessarily lead to learning. So if you can start with praise, 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.520 so I can say, oh, I love that podcast episode, Laura, 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.520 I can start with that, but for learning to happen, 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.400 I need to give you a bit more detail. And 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.920 so brilliant because it's like this connecting statement that I 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.520 think if you use it, it can almost become habitual. 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:51.880 So I might say, oh, I love that podcast day, Laura. 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.320 It was brilliant because I thought you really asked the 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.800 questions that I was thinking about and that I didn't 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.600 think anyone else would ask. And so you're like, oh, 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.000 so it's the quality of my questioning. That's that's the 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.760 thing that's really connected. And it's just a forcing function 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.840 for adding a little bit more detail and data, and 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:13.720 that is the thing that people can learn the most from. 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:14.880 Absolutely. 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.720 So let's talk about leading your own learning. You had 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.960 a lot of sort of cute names of practices on 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.280 these things, and that makes it a little more memorable. 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:26.040 I will give you the feedback of that. It's brilliant 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:30.640 because it makes it more memorable. So for instance, like 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.800 beginner bingo, Yeah, what is beginner bingo? 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.880 Okay? So so yeah, in leader o Learning, we have 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:41.920 these seven different ways that you can lead your own learning. 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.440 And the essence really is like take control, do not 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:46.880 wait for learning to happen, create it for yourself. That's 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:50.440 what this part of book's all about. And so beginning 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.360 is one of the ways that we can create more 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.520 learning for us, but it can often feel hard for 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.840 people to do because it can again it's like that 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.200 hard moments, so they can quite vulnerable to be a beginner. 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.120 You know, if you're an expert in one area suddenly 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.120 to do something you've not done before and other people 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.000 see that you don't know what you're doing, it's quite 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.240 it's quite exposing. It can also be quite overwhelming because 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:16.000 going from knowing nothing to becoming knowledgeable that can be 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.760 a wide gap. Like, for example, I've started gardening this year. 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.320 It is a very wide gap that I'm currently on 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:24.760 from knowing nothing about gardening to maybe growing something this year. 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.680 And so beginner bingo is about breaking it down. So 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.760 you want to take the goal, which is let's say 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:33.800 gardening because it's easy to get our heads around, or 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:36.000 you could take a AI because it's probably more relatable. But 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.520 I want to be proficient at using AI in my 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.400 work by the end of the year. That is a 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.720 big goal for learning. So we want to break it down. 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.680 And so I actually use AI quite often to do 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.360 beginner bingo for me. So I'll say, come up with 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:53.000 twelve small firsts for how I can use AI more 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.320 at work. I might give it a bit more context, 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.480 Like I run a company, we do career development, I 0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:59.560 might give it a little bit more insighting to me, 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:01.680 and so then I will end up with these twelve 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:05.000 small firsts and beginn a bingo is basically saying every 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.360 week or once a day, if you're if you're that committed, 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:09.119 you're just going to tick one off. You're just going 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:12.359 to try and create bingo. And the idea of like 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.800 ticking it off, breaking it down, creating some momentum. I 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.200 always think like doing creates dopamine, and beginner bingo is 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.000 like every time you tick one off, you're kind of 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.760 creating that that buzz in your brain that makes you 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.320 want to do more. And if you do twelve small 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.720 firsts on your beginner Bingo chart, you've actually logged quite 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:32.440 a lot of learning and it's a lot less so 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.000 overwhelming than just saying I want to get good at 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:36.679 you know, whatever, whatever the thing is. 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.920 Yeah, making it a game can always make anything feel 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:41.959 more like you're making progress. Well, we're going to take 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:43.680 one more quick ad break and then I'll be back 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:53.080 with more from Helen Tupper. Well, I am back talking 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:54.920 with Helen Tupper, who is the co author of the 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.359 book Learn like a lobster, accelerate your growth, achieve more 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.160 at work in advance your career. So Helen, I always 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.400 like to ask my guests a bit about their own 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:07.520 personal productivity practices. Do you have any sort of morning 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:09.800 routine that you think helps make your days better? 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:14.360 Well, I'm an early riser, much to my business partner's 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:16.800 mockery so late she's a late night version, and I'm 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:18.600 an early riser. But it basically just makes me have 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:21.080 very long days with lots of messages along them. But 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:23.280 I typically get up about half past five and I 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.359 do that. I think it's when I'm at my best. Also, 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:28.240 it's when no one else in my family is around. 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.639 I feel like I get this one hour window where 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.720 I can think and sometimes I'll journal, and it's quite sweet. 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.120 My nine year old daughter has started journaling, so it's 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:40.800 quite sweet. We'll kind of do that together. I feel 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.800 like she's motivated by that now, so sometimes I journal. 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.760 I will try to read in the morning. I find 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.000 that it's very hard for me to fit reading in 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.199 later in the day because it always seems to be 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:56.720 competing with my work, Whereas in the morning, before work 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.840 gets started, I, yeah, I can do that. And it's so. 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:02.800 I'm in the UK and the mornings are getting lighter 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:04.439 at the moment. So I sat on my sofa this 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:08.359 morning and I was reading a lovely book on my sofa, 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.679 like watching the light come up, and it just sets 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.200 me up. I feel like there is something in how 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:16.520 I feel. It's a bit of an achievement because I 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:18.800 know that was a choice. It was a choice to 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:20.440 start my day like that. So I feel a sense 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:25.840